December 16, 2025 • 29 mins
Are you feeling the pressure of the end of the year?
What if you could let go of that pressure and actually feel renewed going into 2026?
What if that pressure is the very thing cutting you off from what you truly need and want?
Today, Stephanie and Maren share their unconventional point of view regarding resolutions, goals and pushing through. Their engaging conversation meanders through personal stories and examples where they show a practical way to exit the drama triangle, share how to create space, and use the breath and inner listening to restore true choice.
If you are ready to turn frustration into gold and get the most out of this beautiful season of renewal, today’s podcast is for you.
- the difference between needs and wants
- conditioning and labels that narrow choice
- victim and violator
- pivot out of reactivity
- breath and space as neurological resets
- the theater technique for objective awareness
- choosing your inner state
- moving from rescuer to inner coach
- real-life example of reframing frustration
- group practice through the 12 Days of Presence
They also invite you into the 12 Days of Presence, a gentle, email-based group practice that maps the days of Christmas to the months ahead, helping you seed your year with awareness instead of pressure. No mandatory calls, no perfectionism—just a supportive rhythm that rewires your brain toward choice and centers you in what truly matters.
If this resonates, listen now, subscribe, and share with someone who’s ready to leave the old road behind. Leave a review to tell us which corner of the triangle you tend toward - and what you choose instead!
Please share your insights and questions in one of our Soulful Leaders groups:
Get all the latest episodes, news and updates directly to your inbox. Subscribe here. TheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com
Watch the podcasts on our YouTube Channel: @Soulful Leaders
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie (00:03):
In a world where we have everything and it's still
not enough, we're often leftwondering, is this really it?
Maren (00:10):
Deep inside, you know there's more to life.
You're ready to leave behindthe old push your way through
and claim the deeper, moremeaningful life that's calling
you.
That's what we invite you toexplore with us.
We're your hosts, StephanieAllen and Maren Oslac And this
is the Soulful Leader Podcast.
Stephanie (00:30):
Yay! Hi, welcome to the Soulful Leader Podcast.
You know, this is this time ofyear, when I say this time of
the year, this is the end of2025 or heading into 2026,
coming through the holidays,coming into the new year.
And I know how everybody hatessaying, oh, what's your new
year's resolution?
Right.
But yet at the same time, weget an opportunity to choose.
(00:55):
And the power of choice, freewill, we need to not take it so
lightly.
Because when it's taken away,it's harder to get back.
And I'm seeing this.
Like as I'm aging, there'sless things that I have the
ability to choose anymore.
(01:15):
It becomes narrow...
more narrow.
And I'm not trying to be, youknow, negative Nelly here, but
it's being able to wake up tosay, what is it that you truly,
truly want?
And I say this with my heartbecause I think many of us,
myself included, we can be sofocused outwardly on everybody
else's needs and trying tomaintain the peace, whether
(01:38):
we're taking care of a family orwe're taking care of clients or
we are, you know, taking careof our animals, our plants,
whatever it is.
Right.
We tend, and which is awonderful thing to actually care
and take care of our outerworld, but it can set us up from
being distracted to what is itthat we truly need and want.
(01:59):
And those are two differentthings, needs and wants.
Maren (02:02):
Yeah, I think that most of us don't have any clue what
we need or what we want, eitherone of those, because we're so
conditioned by society on whatit's supposed to look like,
expectations from childhood ofwhat life will look like.
(02:22):
You need to get this degree,you need to do that thing, you
need to...
so it's the rare family thatlooks at their kids and says,
what's your passion?
What do you want to do?
What do you g...
you know, like, that has thatdiscussion.
And schools don't have thecapacity to actually have that
(02:44):
discussion with kids.
So they just funnel themthrough all of the expectations,
and then you get labeled, andthen you start to live that
label, and you get to be, youknow, 50, 60, 70, and all of a
sudden you wake up and you go,who the hell am I?
Stephanie (02:59):
Exactly.
I mean that's a very that's avery common thing.
I see that all the time.
I am saying that with myself tosay, okay, warning, warning to
myself, pay attention,Stephanie.
What is it that I want?
What is it that I'm seeking?
Why is it important?
You know, our longing is ourgreatest attribute for
(03:20):
willpower.
Maren (03:21):
Yeah.
Stephanie (03:22):
And I think we can get, I know I do.
I get so frustrated whenthere's something I really,
really want in my life, youknow, whether I'm trying to
overcome an illness or aninjury, or I want to lighten up
in my weight, or I want to havea better, healthier
relationship, whether it's withmyself or another or a life
partner.
And you can just feel like WTF,like, why is this not working?
(03:43):
I've checked all the boxes,I've done all the three steps to
get, you know, your health orto lose weight or whatever, and
it's like freaking not working.
Maren (03:52):
Right.
The miracle water or thewhatever, right?
Stephanie (03:55):
The pill or whatever.
And you just want to throw yourhands up in the air and say,
why bother?
Forget it.
It's never gonna work anyway.
I see this.
I think those two ends, I'mgonna make that triangle again.
You know, that we have...
the imagine a triangle in thatbottom part of the triangle on
one side of the corner is...
I always say it's the fuck you,you know, fuck you.
I can do it myself I don't needanybody, blah, blah, blah.
(04:19):
Or it's the fuck me.
Like, why I can't do it anyway.
There must be something wrongwith me.
And we ricochet.
I feel like it's like aping-pong game, you know.
We just keep going back andforth and back and forth, and
it's exhausting.
Yeah, and there's a thirdoption, which is the peak of
that triangle at the top, whichmerges in between the two of
(04:39):
them, but it's also it's not onthat same level.
It's actually at a level higherof where we can practice being
aware I'm not this and I'm notthat.
I know I am longing forsomething, and can I stay
present in the moment withouttrying to fix or force or
control it or doubt it?
(05:00):
But can I just have anawareness to pay attention to
what is being asked of me?
Maren (05:08):
So that's I love this because it's it's so simple.
It's so beautiful, it's hard,hard, it's not easy.
So I want you to share with us,tell us a little bit about what
goes into being able to...
I guess there are two thingsthat I'm thinking of.
(05:32):
First of all, is recognizingthat I'm in one of those corners
of the triangle, and thenbecause you can't change
anything until you recognize it,right?
So then once you recognize, soonce you address both of these,
first is how do you recognizethat you're in one of the
triangle corners?
And then once you recognizethat, how do you transcend it?
(05:54):
How do you not go to theopposite corner or get stuck on
the same level, maybe in themiddle of being torn between the
two, and actually transcend itto that higher place you're
talking about?
Stephanie (06:05):
Well, I think you just kind of said it right
there.
It's like recognize it.
Am I fighting against somethingoutside of myself?
Am I fighting...
like my defending or being, youknow, confrontational?
Or am I beating myself upinside, telling myself some
stories?
So those are the two ends ofthe triangle.
Maren (06:24):
So that's if there's a voice or there's a story about
poor me, I'm the, you know, likeif you go into that, or if you
go into the story of they didit too, you know, like I'm
gonna, you know, like I'm angryat them.
So if it's an outer anger or ifit's an inner anger,
or resignation?
I would call it another way,it is like victim and violator.
(06:47):
Like, you know, when you wantto just say, screw you, that's
it.
I'm gonna, I'm out of here,you're out of here.
I'm throwing your bags out onthe curb or I'm leaving, or
like...
that's I what I'm doing is Ifelt like a victim long enough,
and now I'm gonna violate you.
I'm gonna punish you for mypain.
That's the violator.
(07:07):
The victim is still reallyinward of like, it must be
something I did wrong.
It's gotta be my fault.
I'm a terrible person.
What's wrong with me?
I must be messed up.
That's the victim.
And oh my god, both of thosetwo ends are so exhausting.
You can sleep for days, trustme.
You know, and and your bodies,your tissues, you'll feel it.
(07:30):
Like panic attacks, fear,anxiety.
That's a lot of that is thatvictim.
But that rage, like pain in theneck or the jaw pain, it often
comes that way.
It's like I just want to likerip their ...grrrr.
You know, we get that way.
I would say if you feel that inyour body, you're probably at
one of those two.
And if you...
so here's how to transcend it.
(07:50):
If you recognize it, that's 99%of it is just recognizing where
you are.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, you're 99% of theway there.
Most of us get so addicted, andI mean it is an addiction.
Our our hormones and everythingget all revved up when we're in
the victim or the violatorstage that we get so conditioned
(08:12):
with it that we actually setourselves up to feel it so that
we can stay addicted.
We can stay getting thoseinternal hormones all jacked up.
So if you're recognizing,going, oh my God, I'm out of
control again, or this isfeeling out of control to me.
So I'm gonna point out what you just said there of I'm
(08:34):
out of control versus this isfeeling out of control to me.
And that's huge because theonly way to get to that next
place that we're talking aboutof transcending it is to stop
identifying with it, is stopsaying it's me that's angry,
it's me that's this, I'm this.
(08:55):
So when you can create space,the only place that
transformation can happen iswhen there's space.
We need to make space.
And we can understand this likewhen we walk into our office
and it's a complete mess.
We're like, oh my God, I can'teven work in here.
I need to make space first,right?
It's the same thing inside ofourselves.
(09:16):
When we claim that of I'm thevictim, I'm the violator.
Now there's no space to beeither something other than one
of those, right?
You so we need to make space,and the easiest way to make
space is to stop saying "I am".
Stephanie (09:33):
Exactly, and to stop it, like just just stop it, like
stop it, like drop and stop,like just go, oh, okay.
What I do is I just close myeyes and I take a deep breath
and I go, okay, I am beinginvolved in one of those old
(09:55):
patterns again.
This is just a thought, it isjust an emotion.
It is not who I am, and it'senticing me to go down that path
again.
So if I stop giving it energy,giving it attention, and I start
giving myself attention,meaning I'm just gonna breathe
(10:16):
to my heart right now.
I am going to imagine this iswhat I tell my clients to do.
Imagine, and I do this myself,imagine you're sitting in a
theater, and you have now justtaken the scenario and you put
it up on the movie screen, andyou're sitting in the theater.
But not only are you aparticipant, you're also the
director of this film.
So you can make changes.
(10:38):
You're in control.
So I put myself in the theater,sitting in my seat, I watch the
scene going by, and I go, wow,that's fascinating.
Look how I'm holding my body.
Look how I'm not breathing.
Look at how I entered from thatway and I said it this way.
What if I tried somethingdifferent?
Maren (10:55):
Yeah.
There's ...
I'm gonna interrupt you realquick because this may resonate
with people.
There's a scene in the Matrix,the original Matrix, where he's
in the cab and the woman, theycome to a crossroads, right?
And they open the door and hedeciding, do I go with these
(11:19):
people or do I get out?
And the woman says to him,you've been down that road, you
know where it ends.
And I that's the moment that Ithink of for myself when I see
myself on that movie screenheading in that direction.
I've been down that road, Iknow where it ends.
(11:40):
And I can choose a differentway, red pill or blue pill,
right?
Like I can choose a differentway.
And I may not know what thatway is, I just know the other
thing that I was doing, I knowwhere that ends.
So I try something new.
I don't know where that ends.
Stephanie (12:01):
And so it's going to take a lot of energy for you to
get back into the cab.
Just shut that door and go,okay, wait a minute.
I know where that path goes.
I know where that I know wherethat leads.
Maren (12:14):
And so you're now heading into the unknown, and that's
why you're saying it takes a lotof energy because...
it takes a lot of energy tostop that path.
And so, what what I recommendyou do is just breathe.
Give yourself...
and your breath is energy, andwhen we are stressed, we don't
(12:34):
breathe.
We actually stop givingourselves and our cells even,
you know, energy.
So if you notice you're notbreathing, breathe.
It's gonna change your brainright there, right there.
The other thing that breath is, is it's space.
Stephanie (12:52):
Space for choice.
Remember, we were talking inthe very beginning.
I said, you know, weunderestimate our ability for
choice and free will.
And the less we start choosing,the more it's taken away from
us.
Not because it's taken awayfrom us in the outer world,
although that happens too.
But we stopped, our neuronsstop firing in that direction.
(13:15):
And what fires together wirestogether.
So if you stop giving yourselfchoice, you stop giving yourself
choice.
You start to reduce the amountof choices that you're gonna
have.
Maren (13:25):
The other thing is when I stop choosing for myself, I've
now handed my choice, myautonomy, my ability over to
somebody else.
And they will make the choicefor me.
And I think that that's wherewhen we were talking earlier
about how society has been doingthat for us since we were very
(13:47):
young.
And we do get to a point in ourlives where we get angry about
that and we go, well, who the Fam I?
Because I've just allowed mychoices to be made for me.
And I don't even know what Iwant or who I am or where I'm
going.
And the easiest way to get outof that, because it seems like
(14:11):
that may be a tangent that we'renot talking about the victim
violator or that bottom layer ofthe triangle anymore.
And actually, it's exactly thebottom layer of the triangle.
And it's the making space andthe stop identifying and the
allowing ourselves to make ourown choices and then getting
curious about okay, I've beendown that road, I know where it
(14:35):
leads, I'm choosing not to godown that road.
I'm now sitting in the unknown,kind of scary place.
Stephanie (14:44):
And it's scary because you haven't been there
before.
I want you to tell that part ofyourself that says I'm
scared, it, and and kind of likelet it, you know, fluff its
little feathers a little bitbecause, say it's because you
haven't been here before.
And that's actually a goodthing because that means you're
not on that road to you whereyou normally go.
You're you're somewhere else.
Maren (15:04):
And where I go with that is like, okay, now I'm on an
adventure.
And it's, it needs to leave theright, wrong, good, bad.
Speaker (15:14):
Yes.
Maren (15:14):
We need to leave that behind because when you're on an
adventure, nothing's right,nothing's wrong, nothing's good.
It's just is an exploration.
So I get curious.
Okay, well, I tried it this wayand I really didn't like that.
Okay, what's another way Icould try it?
I don't have to go back to thatsame road because I still know
where that road leads, right?
(15:35):
It's the making space and thengetting curious.
Stephanie (15:40):
So, in that curiosity part too, Maren, I would also
say, I'm curious, what is itthat I really want to experience
inside myself?
That means not what do I wantto experience with this person
or this event or whatever.
Yeah, that's great too, but youdon't really have control over
that.
So it's gonna keep sending youdown the other road.
(16:01):
Oh, now I'm a victim.
You know, I don't really havecontrol.
But you do have control aboutwhat you want to feel internally
within yourself.
And you might say, I just wantto feel safe, or I want to feel
free, or I want to feel love.
Whatever comes up for you.
And I did this with a clientthe other day, and we were
talking, and and when I waslistening to her, what I said to
(16:22):
her said, it sounds like youreally want some freedom, space,
right?
And this client said,absolutely, that's what I want.
I said, So when you're on thatbottom level of that triangle
and you want to like rip thelungs out of that person that
you're talking to, or you wantto just say, well, why bother?
I'm stuck here now.
I might as well be forever.
Go to the center of thetriangle and what's gonna be the
(16:43):
elevator or the that's gonnalift you up, is saying, I know I
really am seeking freedominside myself.
So if I was free inside myself,how would I be in my body right
now?
How would I think differently?
How would I hold myself?
How would I breathe?
(17:06):
And what if you even breathefreedom?
Because that's the elevator,that's the like whoosh, it's
gonna take you right up.
I said, plus, it's gonna bethat silence for a little bit,
which always makes the otherperson that you're having the
confrontation with a littlenervous anyway, because they're
like, okay, what are theythinking?
But that's actually power.
You know, I say this because Ihave a cat, and my cat is so
(17:29):
good at being still and present.
He looks like he's soundasleep, but his ear twitch,
twitch, twitch, and his tailtwitch, twitch.
I know that my cat is aware ofeverything that's going around
this in the environment, but itliterally is so still and so
present that it's drawing to itenergy.
That's what you do in thecenter of that triangle is you
(17:52):
drop in and you draw to you theenergy of being present to
yourself right now.
Going, what is it that I cangive to myself inside right now?
What am I seeking?
And can I breathe it?
Whoosh! Now you are the catready to pounce on the mouse
when you're ready.
Or to do what, you know,because now you've made space to
be able to say, now you've gotguidance.
Maren (18:14):
So I'm gonna give an example for my own life that
just happened.
I was at a seminar and itwasn't going the way I expected
it to go.
So part of me was frustratedand angry that I wasn't getting
what I had come for.
And I was in this place oflike, do I be frustrated and
(18:35):
angry with It wasn't what I wastold it was gonna be, and I'm
like...errr...
right?
Or do I just resign and belike, well, whatever, I paid my
money, I'll just see it through,and you know, I won't come
back.
You know, that's theresignation or the, you know,
the victim or the violator,right?
And so I stopped for a momentand I was like, well, I know
(18:59):
that I was meant to be here.
And if I lived in a friendlyuniverse and everything served
me, what would my options be?
So I did what you said, Istopped, I dropped in, I didn't
identify with either of those,and I went to that place of like
(19:23):
gathering energy.
And what I noticed for myselfis if I looked at this seminar
in a different way, there's alot that I could glean from it
for myself on an inner level.
And then also it would changehow I was interacting with it in
that moment.
(19:43):
So I came from a place of whatif I were a coach to every
single one of the people that'shere, including and especially
the organizers, because they'rethe ones I'm most frustrated
with right now, right?
I didn't like the way it wasbeing organized.
I was like, I would show upvery differently if they had
hired me as a coach to come inand see, like, how could we make
(20:07):
this better?
And so I started looking at itcompletely differently, and I
showed up to them and to myselfboth completely differently.
Stephanie (20:18):
And that's the key, right?
Maren (20:20):
Yeah.
Stephanie (20:21):
We show up differently.
Maren (20:22):
I was no longer angry, I was no longer resigned, I was
curious and I was interested.
And I walked away from thatevent with so much gold for
myself, which if I had not donethat, I would have been crabby.
At the best, I would have beencrabby at the end of the
(20:43):
seminar, right?
Stephanie (20:44):
See, often there's an internal story that we're
telling ourselves about theouter world.
And that internal story iseither going to take us down the
road of victim or down the roadof violator.
And what I'm suggesting, andwhat we're suggesting here, is
that you hold center and becomeyour own inner rescuer.
Maren (21:04):
Yeah.
Stephanie (21:04):
Meaning that you give yourself the space for
transformation so that you canlisten, go, what is it that I
need inside myself that I cangive to myself right now?
And you slow down, you stop,you drop in, and then you'll get
the guidance, you'll get an AHAthat is right for you, that you
can then respond or notrespond.
(21:26):
Not responding is also anaction.
Sometimes it's simply justholding space.
I said this to someone today.
I said, you know, whensomeone's arguing with you or
trying to gaslight you or doingall these different things, like
sometimes they're in their ownlittle story world, in their own
little fairy tale land.
I should call it a scary tale.
They're probably in their scarytale, which isn't a happily
(21:46):
ever after.
So you don't have to join themin it, but you can stay loving
and present to them, going tolook at them go.
And when they're you knowthrowing accusations at you, and
you can just say from a placeof love, I hear you, you might
be right.
I'll have a look at that.
But you can't just say...Ya!You might be right.
(22:06):
You can't just say that, youknow, because it's the from the
violator, or it's coming fromthe victim.
(sarcastically) Ya, you know,you might be right.
Do you see the difference?
But if we hold center in therescuer part within ourselves,
rescuing ourselves, we makespace.
We then respond differently,and they hear it differently.
Maren (22:29):
I'm gonna suggest, other than...
I want to get us off the dramatriangle completely because
then a rescuer...
still there are issues withthat, which we can't get into
right this moment.
And one of the things that ispossible is to completely get
off that triangle.
And instead of thinking in arescuer, think "Inner Coach".
(22:51):
Because a coach won't...
a rescuer tends to take thingsout of somebody's hands and do
it for them, which doesn'tempower and all of that stuff,
right?
A coach will help and supportand allow the the mistakes to be
made from a loving place, andthat's exactly what you were
(23:14):
actually saying, just with thelanguage of the the drama
triangle.
Stephanie (23:19):
So I just wanted to offer whatever whatever works
for you, whether it's a an innercoach or an inner healer or an
inner parent.
It's what, what will keep youneutral instead of...
I mean, if an inner parent putsyou into a violator or victim
mode, well, don't use that one.
Use a coach, you know.
But you know, use what what youcan imagine that would be the
(23:42):
most loving and kind for you,that you would feel safe and
trustworthy with.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Like, you know, for example,this client that I was working
with, you know, where she feltthe most empowered in her life
was being a grandmother.
And I said, well, if yourgrandson was acting the way your
husband's acting, which hergrandson does act that way, I
(24:04):
said, how are you?
How do you show up to yourgrandson?
And she goes like, well, I justcalmly, because I love him to
death, she says, just love him.
And she said, I look at himwith a smile in my eyes, and I'm
like, now, honey, we talkedabout this...
about being, you know?
When did we talk about this andwhat did we learn from the last
time?
I said, you are obviously notgonna talk to your husband that
way, but what I'm saying is thathow she was internally, she was
(24:28):
patient, she was kind, she waspresent.
I say, can you take thosequalities and bring them to your
husband?
Maren (24:38):
Right.
Stephanie (24:38):
Like, don't talk to him the way you talk to your
four-year-old grandson, but youknow, but have that presence of
inside yourself.
And that's what we'resuggesting you do in that middle
part of that triangle.
That's the elevator.
That's the elevator, whateverworks for you.
Maren (24:54):
I love that.
So, anyone that's looking forsupport along these lines, one
of the things that we offer isevery year we do a give back and
we do the 12 days of presence,which literally is the 12 days
of Christmas, relates to a monthof the following year.
(25:17):
So we've been talking about notknowing our 'why' and feeling
frustrated and angry and maybeeven bitter about the fact that
we're not taught how to findthat.
We're conditioned by society todo all these things that aren't
even who we are.
(25:38):
So, how do we get to know whowe are?
We're coming up at that time ofyear where we're setting goals
and we're doing New Year'sresolutions, and there's an
alternative.
It's the elevator that we werejust talking about.
It's a transformative way ofdoing it, and it's from the
mystics.
And so we presence each ofthose days, which is related.
(26:00):
So January relates to the firstday of Christmas, February is
the second day of Christmas.
So if we're staying present towhat's happening on each of
those days, we're actuallypresencing the incoming future
from our higher self.
And that's the part of us thatknows why we're here, that does
(26:22):
want to get our attention.
Stephanie (26:24):
And it sounds simple.
It sounds so simple.
And it is a simple, but it isvery challenging to break old
habits and to start tuning intoa new habit.
And this is why we do it as agroup.
So you have support, and youknow, it's not gonna be perfect.
It's not about being perfect.
(26:46):
You're gonna make mistakes,you're gonna have questions.
That's actually really greatbecause the more you make
mistakes and the more you havequestions, the more you have
have the ability to gain thatlife force to be able to move
towards where you need to be.
So, you know, we do this as agroup, and it's fun and it's
creative, and there's a milliondifferent ways to be able to
(27:06):
unfold this for you in yourlife.
And I love being in a groupbecause I hear of some of those
other ways that people areunfolding it, and I, oh, I
haven't thought about that one.
Or, and that's we help eachother, but there's so much power
in coming together and movingtogether as a group towards
something of the ideal, and youcan still have your individual
individuality within thatdiversity, which is so
(27:28):
important.
Maren (27:29):
Yeah.
And the nice thing is thatyou've got the group energy and
it's done on your own time.
So there isn't there aren'tmandatory calls or anything like
that.
Everything is done via email.
So if you'd like to join us andthe growing number of people
that are doing it differently,and, you know, head down a new
(27:50):
road in a supportive, wonderfulway.
You can join us atwww.tslp.life And right at the
top, there's a banner that saysthe 12 Days of Presence, and
just sign up for it and you'llbe included in our 12 Days of
Presence this Year.
Stephanie (28:08):
So have a wonderful, happy holidays, whatever you are
celebrating, and may you benourished and and feel loved and
appreciated because you are.
Maren (28:18):
Thanks.
We'll see you the next time.
(28:46):
And that wraps up another episode of The Soulful Leader Podcast. With your hosts Stephanie Allen...
and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you would like to dive deeper head over to our website at www.TheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com
Stephanie (28:46):
Until next time.
In a world where we have everything and it's still
not enough, we're often leftwondering, is this really it?
Maren (00:10):
Deep inside, you know there's more to life.
You're ready to leave behindthe old push your way through
and claim the deeper, moremeaningful life that's calling
you.
That's what we invite you toexplore with us.
We're your hosts, StephanieAllen and Maren Oslac And this
is the Soulful Leader Podcast.
Stephanie (00:30):
Yay! Hi, welcome to the Soulful Leader Podcast.
You know, this is this time ofyear, when I say this time of
the year, this is the end of2025 or heading into 2026,
coming through the holidays,coming into the new year.
And I know how everybody hatessaying, oh, what's your new
year's resolution?
Right.
But yet at the same time, weget an opportunity to choose.
(00:55):
And the power of choice, freewill, we need to not take it so
lightly.
Because when it's taken away,it's harder to get back.
And I'm seeing this.
Like as I'm aging, there'sless things that I have the
ability to choose anymore.
(01:15):
It becomes narrow...
more narrow.
And I'm not trying to be, youknow, negative Nelly here, but
it's being able to wake up tosay, what is it that you truly,
truly want?
And I say this with my heartbecause I think many of us,
myself included, we can be sofocused outwardly on everybody
else's needs and trying tomaintain the peace, whether
(01:38):
we're taking care of a family orwe're taking care of clients or
we are, you know, taking careof our animals, our plants,
whatever it is.
Right.
We tend, and which is awonderful thing to actually care
and take care of our outerworld, but it can set us up from
being distracted to what is itthat we truly need and want.
(01:59):
And those are two differentthings, needs and wants.
Maren (02:02):
Yeah, I think that most of us don't have any clue what
we need or what we want, eitherone of those, because we're so
conditioned by society on whatit's supposed to look like,
expectations from childhood ofwhat life will look like.
(02:22):
You need to get this degree,you need to do that thing, you
need to...
so it's the rare family thatlooks at their kids and says,
what's your passion?
What do you want to do?
What do you g...
you know, like, that has thatdiscussion.
And schools don't have thecapacity to actually have that
(02:44):
discussion with kids.
So they just funnel themthrough all of the expectations,
and then you get labeled, andthen you start to live that
label, and you get to be, youknow, 50, 60, 70, and all of a
sudden you wake up and you go,who the hell am I?
Stephanie (02:59):
Exactly.
I mean that's a very that's avery common thing.
I see that all the time.
I am saying that with myself tosay, okay, warning, warning to
myself, pay attention,Stephanie.
What is it that I want?
What is it that I'm seeking?
Why is it important?
You know, our longing is ourgreatest attribute for
(03:20):
willpower.
Maren (03:21):
Yeah.
Stephanie (03:22):
And I think we can get, I know I do.
I get so frustrated whenthere's something I really,
really want in my life, youknow, whether I'm trying to
overcome an illness or aninjury, or I want to lighten up
in my weight, or I want to havea better, healthier
relationship, whether it's withmyself or another or a life
partner.
And you can just feel like WTF,like, why is this not working?
(03:43):
I've checked all the boxes,I've done all the three steps to
get, you know, your health orto lose weight or whatever, and
it's like freaking not working.
Maren (03:52):
Right.
The miracle water or thewhatever, right?
Stephanie (03:55):
The pill or whatever.
And you just want to throw yourhands up in the air and say,
why bother?
Forget it.
It's never gonna work anyway.
I see this.
I think those two ends, I'mgonna make that triangle again.
You know, that we have...
the imagine a triangle in thatbottom part of the triangle on
one side of the corner is...
I always say it's the fuck you,you know, fuck you.
I can do it myself I don't needanybody, blah, blah, blah.
(04:19):
Or it's the fuck me.
Like, why I can't do it anyway.
There must be something wrongwith me.
And we ricochet.
I feel like it's like aping-pong game, you know.
We just keep going back andforth and back and forth, and
it's exhausting.
Yeah, and there's a thirdoption, which is the peak of
that triangle at the top, whichmerges in between the two of
(04:39):
them, but it's also it's not onthat same level.
It's actually at a level higherof where we can practice being
aware I'm not this and I'm notthat.
I know I am longing forsomething, and can I stay
present in the moment withouttrying to fix or force or
control it or doubt it?
(05:00):
But can I just have anawareness to pay attention to
what is being asked of me?
Maren (05:08):
So that's I love this because it's it's so simple.
It's so beautiful, it's hard,hard, it's not easy.
So I want you to share with us,tell us a little bit about what
goes into being able to...
I guess there are two thingsthat I'm thinking of.
(05:32):
First of all, is recognizingthat I'm in one of those corners
of the triangle, and thenbecause you can't change
anything until you recognize it,right?
So then once you recognize, soonce you address both of these,
first is how do you recognizethat you're in one of the
triangle corners?
And then once you recognizethat, how do you transcend it?
(05:54):
How do you not go to theopposite corner or get stuck on
the same level, maybe in themiddle of being torn between the
two, and actually transcend itto that higher place you're
talking about?
Stephanie (06:05):
Well, I think you just kind of said it right
there.
It's like recognize it.
Am I fighting against somethingoutside of myself?
Am I fighting...
like my defending or being, youknow, confrontational?
Or am I beating myself upinside, telling myself some
stories?
So those are the two ends ofthe triangle.
Maren (06:24):
So that's if there's a voice or there's a story about
poor me, I'm the, you know, likeif you go into that, or if you
go into the story of they didit too, you know, like I'm
gonna, you know, like I'm angryat them.
So if it's an outer anger or ifit's an inner anger,
or resignation?
I would call it another way,it is like victim and violator.
(06:47):
Like, you know, when you wantto just say, screw you, that's
it.
I'm gonna, I'm out of here,you're out of here.
I'm throwing your bags out onthe curb or I'm leaving, or
like...
that's I what I'm doing is Ifelt like a victim long enough,
and now I'm gonna violate you.
I'm gonna punish you for mypain.
That's the violator.
(07:07):
The victim is still reallyinward of like, it must be
something I did wrong.
It's gotta be my fault.
I'm a terrible person.
What's wrong with me?
I must be messed up.
That's the victim.
And oh my god, both of thosetwo ends are so exhausting.
You can sleep for days, trustme.
You know, and and your bodies,your tissues, you'll feel it.
(07:30):
Like panic attacks, fear,anxiety.
That's a lot of that is thatvictim.
But that rage, like pain in theneck or the jaw pain, it often
comes that way.
It's like I just want to likerip their ...grrrr.
You know, we get that way.
I would say if you feel that inyour body, you're probably at
one of those two.
And if you...
so here's how to transcend it.
(07:50):
If you recognize it, that's 99%of it is just recognizing where
you are.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, you're 99% of theway there.
Most of us get so addicted, andI mean it is an addiction.
Our our hormones and everythingget all revved up when we're in
the victim or the violatorstage that we get so conditioned
(08:12):
with it that we actually setourselves up to feel it so that
we can stay addicted.
We can stay getting thoseinternal hormones all jacked up.
So if you're recognizing,going, oh my God, I'm out of
control again, or this isfeeling out of control to me.
So I'm gonna point out what you just said there of I'm
(08:34):
out of control versus this isfeeling out of control to me.
And that's huge because theonly way to get to that next
place that we're talking aboutof transcending it is to stop
identifying with it, is stopsaying it's me that's angry,
it's me that's this, I'm this.
(08:55):
So when you can create space,the only place that
transformation can happen iswhen there's space.
We need to make space.
And we can understand this likewhen we walk into our office
and it's a complete mess.
We're like, oh my God, I can'teven work in here.
I need to make space first,right?
It's the same thing inside ofourselves.
(09:16):
When we claim that of I'm thevictim, I'm the violator.
Now there's no space to beeither something other than one
of those, right?
You so we need to make space,and the easiest way to make
space is to stop saying "I am".
Stephanie (09:33):
Exactly, and to stop it, like just just stop it, like
stop it, like drop and stop,like just go, oh, okay.
What I do is I just close myeyes and I take a deep breath
and I go, okay, I am beinginvolved in one of those old
(09:55):
patterns again.
This is just a thought, it isjust an emotion.
It is not who I am, and it'senticing me to go down that path
again.
So if I stop giving it energy,giving it attention, and I start
giving myself attention,meaning I'm just gonna breathe
(10:16):
to my heart right now.
I am going to imagine this iswhat I tell my clients to do.
Imagine, and I do this myself,imagine you're sitting in a
theater, and you have now justtaken the scenario and you put
it up on the movie screen, andyou're sitting in the theater.
But not only are you aparticipant, you're also the
director of this film.
So you can make changes.
(10:38):
You're in control.
So I put myself in the theater,sitting in my seat, I watch the
scene going by, and I go, wow,that's fascinating.
Look how I'm holding my body.
Look how I'm not breathing.
Look at how I entered from thatway and I said it this way.
What if I tried somethingdifferent?
Maren (10:55):
Yeah.
There's ...
I'm gonna interrupt you realquick because this may resonate
with people.
There's a scene in the Matrix,the original Matrix, where he's
in the cab and the woman, theycome to a crossroads, right?
And they open the door and hedeciding, do I go with these
(11:19):
people or do I get out?
And the woman says to him,you've been down that road, you
know where it ends.
And I that's the moment that Ithink of for myself when I see
myself on that movie screenheading in that direction.
I've been down that road, Iknow where it ends.
(11:40):
And I can choose a differentway, red pill or blue pill,
right?
Like I can choose a differentway.
And I may not know what thatway is, I just know the other
thing that I was doing, I knowwhere that ends.
So I try something new.
I don't know where that ends.
Stephanie (12:01):
And so it's going to take a lot of energy for you to
get back into the cab.
Just shut that door and go,okay, wait a minute.
I know where that path goes.
I know where that I know wherethat leads.
Maren (12:14):
And so you're now heading into the unknown, and that's
why you're saying it takes a lotof energy because...
it takes a lot of energy tostop that path.
And so, what what I recommendyou do is just breathe.
Give yourself...
and your breath is energy, andwhen we are stressed, we don't
(12:34):
breathe.
We actually stop givingourselves and our cells even,
you know, energy.
So if you notice you're notbreathing, breathe.
It's gonna change your brainright there, right there.
The other thing that breath is, is it's space.
Stephanie (12:52):
Space for choice.
Remember, we were talking inthe very beginning.
I said, you know, weunderestimate our ability for
choice and free will.
And the less we start choosing,the more it's taken away from
us.
Not because it's taken awayfrom us in the outer world,
although that happens too.
But we stopped, our neuronsstop firing in that direction.
(13:15):
And what fires together wirestogether.
So if you stop giving yourselfchoice, you stop giving yourself
choice.
You start to reduce the amountof choices that you're gonna
have.
Maren (13:25):
The other thing is when I stop choosing for myself, I've
now handed my choice, myautonomy, my ability over to
somebody else.
And they will make the choicefor me.
And I think that that's wherewhen we were talking earlier
about how society has been doingthat for us since we were very
(13:47):
young.
And we do get to a point in ourlives where we get angry about
that and we go, well, who the Fam I?
Because I've just allowed mychoices to be made for me.
And I don't even know what Iwant or who I am or where I'm
going.
And the easiest way to get outof that, because it seems like
(14:11):
that may be a tangent that we'renot talking about the victim
violator or that bottom layer ofthe triangle anymore.
And actually, it's exactly thebottom layer of the triangle.
And it's the making space andthe stop identifying and the
allowing ourselves to make ourown choices and then getting
curious about okay, I've beendown that road, I know where it
(14:35):
leads, I'm choosing not to godown that road.
I'm now sitting in the unknown,kind of scary place.
Stephanie (14:44):
And it's scary because you haven't been there
before.
I want you to tell that part ofyourself that says I'm
scared, it, and and kind of likelet it, you know, fluff its
little feathers a little bitbecause, say it's because you
haven't been here before.
And that's actually a goodthing because that means you're
not on that road to you whereyou normally go.
You're you're somewhere else.
Maren (15:04):
And where I go with that is like, okay, now I'm on an
adventure.
And it's, it needs to leave theright, wrong, good, bad.
Speaker (15:14):
Yes.
Maren (15:14):
We need to leave that behind because when you're on an
adventure, nothing's right,nothing's wrong, nothing's good.
It's just is an exploration.
So I get curious.
Okay, well, I tried it this wayand I really didn't like that.
Okay, what's another way Icould try it?
I don't have to go back to thatsame road because I still know
where that road leads, right?
(15:35):
It's the making space and thengetting curious.
Stephanie (15:40):
So, in that curiosity part too, Maren, I would also
say, I'm curious, what is itthat I really want to experience
inside myself?
That means not what do I wantto experience with this person
or this event or whatever.
Yeah, that's great too, but youdon't really have control over
that.
So it's gonna keep sending youdown the other road.
(16:01):
Oh, now I'm a victim.
You know, I don't really havecontrol.
But you do have control aboutwhat you want to feel internally
within yourself.
And you might say, I just wantto feel safe, or I want to feel
free, or I want to feel love.
Whatever comes up for you.
And I did this with a clientthe other day, and we were
talking, and and when I waslistening to her, what I said to
(16:22):
her said, it sounds like youreally want some freedom, space,
right?
And this client said,absolutely, that's what I want.
I said, So when you're on thatbottom level of that triangle
and you want to like rip thelungs out of that person that
you're talking to, or you wantto just say, well, why bother?
I'm stuck here now.
I might as well be forever.
Go to the center of thetriangle and what's gonna be the
(16:43):
elevator or the that's gonnalift you up, is saying, I know I
really am seeking freedominside myself.
So if I was free inside myself,how would I be in my body right
now?
How would I think differently?
How would I hold myself?
How would I breathe?
(17:06):
And what if you even breathefreedom?
Because that's the elevator,that's the like whoosh, it's
gonna take you right up.
I said, plus, it's gonna bethat silence for a little bit,
which always makes the otherperson that you're having the
confrontation with a littlenervous anyway, because they're
like, okay, what are theythinking?
But that's actually power.
You know, I say this because Ihave a cat, and my cat is so
(17:29):
good at being still and present.
He looks like he's soundasleep, but his ear twitch,
twitch, twitch, and his tailtwitch, twitch.
I know that my cat is aware ofeverything that's going around
this in the environment, but itliterally is so still and so
present that it's drawing to itenergy.
That's what you do in thecenter of that triangle is you
(17:52):
drop in and you draw to you theenergy of being present to
yourself right now.
Going, what is it that I cangive to myself inside right now?
What am I seeking?
And can I breathe it?
Whoosh! Now you are the catready to pounce on the mouse
when you're ready.
Or to do what, you know,because now you've made space to
be able to say, now you've gotguidance.
Maren (18:14):
So I'm gonna give an example for my own life that
just happened.
I was at a seminar and itwasn't going the way I expected
it to go.
So part of me was frustratedand angry that I wasn't getting
what I had come for.
And I was in this place oflike, do I be frustrated and
(18:35):
angry with It wasn't what I wastold it was gonna be, and I'm
like...errr...
right?
Or do I just resign and belike, well, whatever, I paid my
money, I'll just see it through,and you know, I won't come
back.
You know, that's theresignation or the, you know,
the victim or the violator,right?
And so I stopped for a momentand I was like, well, I know
(18:59):
that I was meant to be here.
And if I lived in a friendlyuniverse and everything served
me, what would my options be?
So I did what you said, Istopped, I dropped in, I didn't
identify with either of those,and I went to that place of like
(19:23):
gathering energy.
And what I noticed for myselfis if I looked at this seminar
in a different way, there's alot that I could glean from it
for myself on an inner level.
And then also it would changehow I was interacting with it in
that moment.
(19:43):
So I came from a place of whatif I were a coach to every
single one of the people that'shere, including and especially
the organizers, because they'rethe ones I'm most frustrated
with right now, right?
I didn't like the way it wasbeing organized.
I was like, I would show upvery differently if they had
hired me as a coach to come inand see, like, how could we make
(20:07):
this better?
And so I started looking at itcompletely differently, and I
showed up to them and to myselfboth completely differently.
Stephanie (20:18):
And that's the key, right?
Maren (20:20):
Yeah.
Stephanie (20:21):
We show up differently.
Maren (20:22):
I was no longer angry, I was no longer resigned, I was
curious and I was interested.
And I walked away from thatevent with so much gold for
myself, which if I had not donethat, I would have been crabby.
At the best, I would have beencrabby at the end of the
(20:43):
seminar, right?
Stephanie (20:44):
See, often there's an internal story that we're
telling ourselves about theouter world.
And that internal story iseither going to take us down the
road of victim or down the roadof violator.
And what I'm suggesting, andwhat we're suggesting here, is
that you hold center and becomeyour own inner rescuer.
Maren (21:04):
Yeah.
Stephanie (21:04):
Meaning that you give yourself the space for
transformation so that you canlisten, go, what is it that I
need inside myself that I cangive to myself right now?
And you slow down, you stop,you drop in, and then you'll get
the guidance, you'll get an AHAthat is right for you, that you
can then respond or notrespond.
(21:26):
Not responding is also anaction.
Sometimes it's simply justholding space.
I said this to someone today.
I said, you know, whensomeone's arguing with you or
trying to gaslight you or doingall these different things, like
sometimes they're in their ownlittle story world, in their own
little fairy tale land.
I should call it a scary tale.
They're probably in their scarytale, which isn't a happily
(21:46):
ever after.
So you don't have to join themin it, but you can stay loving
and present to them, going tolook at them go.
And when they're you knowthrowing accusations at you, and
you can just say from a placeof love, I hear you, you might
be right.
I'll have a look at that.
But you can't just say...Ya!You might be right.
(22:06):
You can't just say that, youknow, because it's the from the
violator, or it's coming fromthe victim.
(sarcastically) Ya, you know,you might be right.
Do you see the difference?
But if we hold center in therescuer part within ourselves,
rescuing ourselves, we makespace.
We then respond differently,and they hear it differently.
Maren (22:29):
I'm gonna suggest, other than...
I want to get us off the dramatriangle completely because
then a rescuer...
still there are issues withthat, which we can't get into
right this moment.
And one of the things that ispossible is to completely get
off that triangle.
And instead of thinking in arescuer, think "Inner Coach".
(22:51):
Because a coach won't...
a rescuer tends to take thingsout of somebody's hands and do
it for them, which doesn'tempower and all of that stuff,
right?
A coach will help and supportand allow the the mistakes to be
made from a loving place, andthat's exactly what you were
(23:14):
actually saying, just with thelanguage of the the drama
triangle.
Stephanie (23:19):
So I just wanted to offer whatever whatever works
for you, whether it's a an innercoach or an inner healer or an
inner parent.
It's what, what will keep youneutral instead of...
I mean, if an inner parent putsyou into a violator or victim
mode, well, don't use that one.
Use a coach, you know.
But you know, use what what youcan imagine that would be the
(23:42):
most loving and kind for you,that you would feel safe and
trustworthy with.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Like, you know, for example,this client that I was working
with, you know, where she feltthe most empowered in her life
was being a grandmother.
And I said, well, if yourgrandson was acting the way your
husband's acting, which hergrandson does act that way, I
(24:04):
said, how are you?
How do you show up to yourgrandson?
And she goes like, well, I justcalmly, because I love him to
death, she says, just love him.
And she said, I look at himwith a smile in my eyes, and I'm
like, now, honey, we talkedabout this...
about being, you know?
When did we talk about this andwhat did we learn from the last
time?
I said, you are obviously notgonna talk to your husband that
way, but what I'm saying is thathow she was internally, she was
(24:28):
patient, she was kind, she waspresent.
I say, can you take thosequalities and bring them to your
husband?
Maren (24:38):
Right.
Stephanie (24:38):
Like, don't talk to him the way you talk to your
four-year-old grandson, but youknow, but have that presence of
inside yourself.
And that's what we'resuggesting you do in that middle
part of that triangle.
That's the elevator.
That's the elevator, whateverworks for you.
Maren (24:54):
I love that.
So, anyone that's looking forsupport along these lines, one
of the things that we offer isevery year we do a give back and
we do the 12 days of presence,which literally is the 12 days
of Christmas, relates to a monthof the following year.
(25:17):
So we've been talking about notknowing our 'why' and feeling
frustrated and angry and maybeeven bitter about the fact that
we're not taught how to findthat.
We're conditioned by society todo all these things that aren't
even who we are.
(25:38):
So, how do we get to know whowe are?
We're coming up at that time ofyear where we're setting goals
and we're doing New Year'sresolutions, and there's an
alternative.
It's the elevator that we werejust talking about.
It's a transformative way ofdoing it, and it's from the
mystics.
And so we presence each ofthose days, which is related.
(26:00):
So January relates to the firstday of Christmas, February is
the second day of Christmas.
So if we're staying present towhat's happening on each of
those days, we're actuallypresencing the incoming future
from our higher self.
And that's the part of us thatknows why we're here, that does
(26:22):
want to get our attention.
Stephanie (26:24):
And it sounds simple.
It sounds so simple.
And it is a simple, but it isvery challenging to break old
habits and to start tuning intoa new habit.
And this is why we do it as agroup.
So you have support, and youknow, it's not gonna be perfect.
It's not about being perfect.
(26:46):
You're gonna make mistakes,you're gonna have questions.
That's actually really greatbecause the more you make
mistakes and the more you havequestions, the more you have
have the ability to gain thatlife force to be able to move
towards where you need to be.
So, you know, we do this as agroup, and it's fun and it's
creative, and there's a milliondifferent ways to be able to
(27:06):
unfold this for you in yourlife.
And I love being in a groupbecause I hear of some of those
other ways that people areunfolding it, and I, oh, I
haven't thought about that one.
Or, and that's we help eachother, but there's so much power
in coming together and movingtogether as a group towards
something of the ideal, and youcan still have your individual
individuality within thatdiversity, which is so
(27:28):
important.
Maren (27:29):
Yeah.
And the nice thing is thatyou've got the group energy and
it's done on your own time.
So there isn't there aren'tmandatory calls or anything like
that.
Everything is done via email.
So if you'd like to join us andthe growing number of people
that are doing it differently,and, you know, head down a new
(27:50):
road in a supportive, wonderfulway.
You can join us atwww.tslp.life And right at the
top, there's a banner that saysthe 12 Days of Presence, and
just sign up for it and you'llbe included in our 12 Days of
Presence this Year.
Stephanie (28:08):
So have a wonderful, happy holidays, whatever you are
celebrating, and may you benourished and and feel loved and
appreciated because you are.
Maren (28:18):
Thanks.
We'll see you the next time.
(28:46):
And that wraps up another episode of The Soulful Leader Podcast. With your hosts Stephanie Allen...
and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you would like to dive deeper head over to our website at www.TheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com
Stephanie (28:46):
Until next time.
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