September 16, 2024 • 46 mins
What if the feelings of isolation and loneliness you’ve been grappling with could be the very catalyst for a transformative journey? This week on the Special Parent Podcast, we sit down with Annie Carter, a resilient life coach and single mom, who opens up about her heartfelt experiences of raising a child with autism. From recognizing the early signs in her son, to facing initial resistance from medical professionals, and finally finding effective therapies, Annie’s journey is a testament to patience, unconditional love, and the power of advocacy. Her touching stories of navigating the highs and lows of special needs parenting will resonate deeply with anyone on a similar path.
Ever wondered how a life coach can help you overcome emotional challenges, much like a soccer coach guiding their team? Annie shares invaluable insights into the practical steps life coaching offers, emphasizing the importance of thought work and the role it plays in conquering loneliness and building resilience. We also delve into the distinction between life coaching and therapy, and explore innovative tools like the Marco Polo app that provide real-time support and validation, making the process of managing emotions much more effective. Through Annie’s expertise, listeners will gain a clearer understanding of how to take actionable steps towards a more fulfilling and connected life.
Connecting with others on an emotional level can often feel daunting, especially when grappling with feelings of rejection and self-worth. Annie courageously shares her personal battles with depression, the pain of broken relationships, and the journey to finding self-acceptance. Together, we explore the universal nature of emotions and the power of empathy in fostering deep, meaningful connections. Drawing from her experiences as a special needs parent, Annie discusses the importance of reparenting oneself through their children and teaching them resilience. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of the joys and challenges of parenting, and a reminder of the transformative power of empathy and self-love. Join us for a conversation filled with hope, healing, and the celebration of milestones that make the journey worthwhile.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi everyone, welcome to the Special Parent Podcast.
I'm Dr Deanna Iverson and I'mso glad you're here to join us
today.
I have a special guest with mehere, annie.
Would you please introduceyourself?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I would love to.
Yeah, I'm Annie and I'm a lifecoach and a mom of two, and I
love what I do because I'vestruggled myself with feeling
lonely.
I mean, who hasn't honestlyright?
But it's been a strugglebetween being a single mom and
being a special needs mom is adouble dose of feeling isolated
at times and I've learned thatthere really are ways to figure
(00:41):
that out and to not be wallowingin this loneliness.
And yeah.
So my kiddos are 10 and 11.
Oh boy, 18 months apart.
What a fun age they are.
You know what it is like thebest age right now.
I'm loving parenting at themoment not all of it, none of us
do but, like for the most part,like we're at a really fun age,
like everyone can play uno,everyone wipes their own butt
(01:02):
you know like everyone can likesort of like figure out lunch
you know right like I can playuno everyone wipes their own
butt.
You know like everyone can likesort of like figure out lunch.
You know right like I can sleepin on saturday because, like,
they'll just eat chips and watchyoutube and it's fine and
that's what saturday morningsare for.
It's okay, I mean how many?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
times did we get up and just shove cereal in our
mouth as we were watching somesort of cartoon we all did it
yeah we survived, surviving.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's totally like they a little self-sufficient
sort of you know.
So the sweet spot, but theystill think I'm funny.
Oh, that's nice, we're in agood place.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good one we have an 11-year-old,
so we have three, and myyoungest is 11, 11, 14, 17.
I spread mine out a little bitmore because I was so stressed.
Yeah yeah, it was all about theplan and the stress and it
didn't reduce the stress.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's just different yeah totally.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I like that, but I love how you mentioned it.
There's a level ofself-sufficiency that does take
some of the stress off being aparent.
And as special needs parents.
We know that there are someparents that never get quite
that level of self-sufficiencyTotally, which can even lead to
more feelings of isolated alone.
No one understands, I can't goanywhere because of what's going
(02:12):
on in my life, because I havesomeone who's still very
infant-like, in some ways, 100%,and so that's a level of stress
.
So that's why we wanted to talk, right, yes, and we wanted to
talk all about how we can kindof overcome that.
So first, all you did say youhave two, I have two, and one of
them does have autism.
You said yes, yes, my oldest.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
so my sweet little 11 year old.
He'll be 12 in january, but fornow he's 11 and we say, you
know, 11 evan, and uh, yeah, sohe is.
I guess we're like eight-ishyears into our, you know, doing
treatment for all the things.
He got diagnosed when he wastwo officially, and then, you
know, in Arizona they have youdo like the at-risk at first and
(02:52):
then they do like the permanentdiagnosis at like age six or so
and so, but around age threewas when we got like real
services and started doing allthe therapies and all the things
and all of that.
So, yeah, he is my greatest joyand my greatest teacher.
We'll put it that way, right?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I love that, because we do learn so much from our
children.
Yes, they're teaching us.
Well, let's start off withpatience.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh, so much patience.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
The patience there is , but they're also teaching us
about a level of love that Idon't think we would have ever
understood.
Oh yeah, and a level offorgiveness for, sometimes, the
other people in the world whoaren't responding in a way that
is conducive to raising aspecial needs child.
So I know that, and again,we're talking about isolation
and being alone, and that candefinitely key right in on that.
(03:45):
Yeah, totally for sure.
So, all right, seven, 11, 11.
Going to be 12.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You're going to have to come with me, right?
I know I've got to come with anew thing but for now it's
working.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So you said kind of right in the early stages you
knew that your child was alittle unique.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, well, his dad at first was definitely the one
that was like I think he hasautism at age one.
I was like, well, I don't know.
I mean we're first time parents, what do we know?
And I mean I'm breastfeeding,so I'm getting eye contact from
him, so it's like a different.
What's the word?
It's a.
Is that over?
Like a connection that wasdifferent.
It's just like a different,yeah, like a different
(04:21):
connection, a different, youknow experience than dad was
having.
Oh, yeah, right, not that dad'sexperience was wrong, it was
just different than mine, right.
And so at first I was like oh,maybe I don't know, and kind of
dropped it.
And then 18 months dad cameback again, Like I really think
he has it, he has a cousin withautism.
He's like I'm pretty, someresearch online was just, you
(04:47):
know, worried about it.
So I took like the m chatonline and it said he was high
risk.
Like okay, so went to thepediatrician and at first she
dismissed me.
Well, lots of kids don't talkto their two.
I was like I gave you likeseven other things, right
besides not talking to one ofthem.
Okay, yeah, and you didn't hearon any of those things, which
was kind of my first step inbecoming my kid's voice.
Yes, you know which, I'm sureanybody listening you are your
(05:07):
own kid's voice, right?
That's what we have to do asspecial needs parents.
We have to be the advocate,right we do.
And I remember being like,excuse me, you know, and that
fired me up and I've beenshouting loud and proud for him
ever since then.
But it took six months for themto finally say, oh yeah, you
(05:29):
should go to a developmental ped, you know.
And then they did the, you know, at risk diagnosis and did
early intervention, which wassorry, I think a joke in Arizona
.
I think it's not helpful.
It did not help us.
It's made me feel more alonethan ever.
Age two to three was probablywhen I felt more alone than ever
in my life, and not until wegot some like therapist, because
they're like, okay, here's thistherapist for you, they're
going to tell you what to do.
Like, do you think I have amaster's degree in occupational
(05:50):
therapy?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I do not Right and telling you what to do if then
they send you home, no one's, ina sense, watching you to see.
Am I doing it right?
Is it being effective?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I'm like like I don't know what I'm doing.
I did this, but did it workright?
Valid point, and they handed methis list of like 30 to 50 like
activities I could try forsensory stuff.
That's a lot, I'm all well.
Where does one start?
and how long am I doing saiditem on this list to know if
it's being effective, right,right, we did like the sensory
brushing and like the, you know,walking on certain objects or
(06:27):
whatever, like we tried allthese things I'm like, but I
don't know.
So I started.
I had to start getting reallyclear my own intuition, like
okay, friend is putting rocks inhis mouth, there we go, we got
some sensory things going on,right, I mean, I knew that
anyway, because the homie had apassy from like day one and was
not letting it go.
But also he'd walk on rocks onpurpose.
Oh, interesting, like, oh, okay, so get him some feet.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
input or whatever right.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
But their guidance was not helpful.
I'm sure they meant well andI'm sure they're doing the very
best they knew how to do, butleft mama feeling really alone.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
In one of my episodes I do talk about how to be a
partner with your doctors, andit's so true because they can
give you a lot of really greatadvice and they really usually
are really well-meaning from theheart.
They want the best for you andyour child, Sure, but they don't
live it Right and so they handyou what was it?
30?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
things.
Well, this was like the thearizona intervention, early
intervention, oh my gosh yeahthat's in the doctor it was.
They're like here's a list ofsensory stuff.
I'm like what am I doing withthis friggin list?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
like what do you want for me?
Right, and that's sooverwhelming.
It actually added more stressthan how much more stress like?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
are you serious right now?
so then when he started likeactual therapy, where I'd bring
it to them and say, okay, here'smy kid, right, and they're like
, okay, and they figured outright, they'd work through the
stuff.
So then we started seeing somemore progress.
He started aba therapy andoccupational and speech and he
did physical for like a hotminute, just music therapy, like
we did so many therapies.
I mean, the kid was so overthere by, I think in the
(07:59):
beginning.
Yes, know, like preschool andall the things, and we're going
to cure you, you know, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
My husband once said oh wait, that doesn't work.
Yeah, there's no cure actually.
No, actually that's not a thing.
Surprise, my husband actuallyone time said I can't wait for
the weekend.
So it's funny how you can havepeople around you all the time
and feel lonely 100.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Especially when you feel like you're under a
microscope.
Yeah, that's how I feel.
Everyone's watching what you'redoing.
Yeah, everyone's likemicromanaging my parenting and
if I do anything wrong, it'slike I've got 17 humans to
account to for my parenting andthis is my first time.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And I don't know what I'm doing, right?
Well, even if it was your fifthtime with a special needs kid,
everything's going to bedifferent.
And even with children that welike to call neurotypical, every
child is different.
Every child is going to respondto feedback in a different way,
to discipline, to positivefeedback, all of that, and then
you put in special needs.
I mean, parenting is exhaustingenough on its own.
And now here we add this where,like you said, there's so many
people around all the time whoare actually analyzing your
(09:07):
parenting.
Yeah, and it's not fun.
Yeah, not fun at all.
It's not just like you havefriends around hanging out.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
No, these people are.
They're taking notes, they'retaking data on the things you're
doing when you're a child andyou're like, listen, I'm doing
the best, I know how to do.
Can you put that in your notes?
Put that in your notes, pleasebless.
It was terrible and later onover the years I got used to
having someone over all the time, but it was definitely an
adjustment.
I mean, for those.
I mean everyone listening forthe most part is going to be a
(09:37):
special needs parent, probablyget that.
But maybe the friends you hangout with don't quite understand
that right, and that can feel alittle isolating too.
Sometimes when you haveexperiences they can't quite
understand.
We can dive into that a bitmore with, like, how to overcome
that, but but that can feelisolating.
When you feel like you have anexperience, they don't know what
it's like because someone inyour house all the time yeah,
(09:59):
and you have to get used to it,but it's not a cleaner, it's not
a maid, it's not a nanny yeah,it's someone who's analyzing
things, yep and so, and then youget together with your friends
and you're venting, becausethat's kind of what friendship
time is for a lot of times rightwe've got it.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
we've got to let some stress out, and everybody does
that, and then good willing,good meaning, friends and
families go well, have you, haveyou tried?
Yeah, and you're like mm-hmm.
And so now you feel like you'rejustifying or defending
yourself.
And they don't mean it that way, but that's how it kind of
impacts you.
It's like, oh, I have to justifyand defend this, Right, that's
(10:34):
a really good point.
And even if you're like, no, wehaven't tried it, but there's a
reason, right, haven't tried it, but there's a reason, you know
, right, caveat a, b, c and dyeah, right, totally.
So, yeah, no, I hear whatyou're saying on that one.
Um, so we've kind of talked alittle bit about that.
You said you're a life coach.
Can you please explain what isa life coach?
So many people have heard aboutit what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
yeah, totally in fact .
I met someone recently, like ina networking thing, like I had
my life.
I'm like I'm a life coach andthey're like what's that?
I'm like I just assume by nowmost people have heard of it,
but I'm still surprised thereare so many people that don't
know.
Which is fine.
I just live in my little bubbleof like coaching world and so I
think that everyone knows.
I think the best way to describea life coach is think of like a
(11:18):
soccer coach.
They are seeing what you'redoing and saying, hey, here's
some ideas, here's somesuggestions to improve your
skillset.
Yeah, we may not be divingsuper deep into like all the
things you did before soccerpractice.
Right, we're saying here atthis practice, right now, I'm
observing the actions you'retaking in the soccer game and
(11:39):
saying, hey, if you want toimprove making a goal, maybe try
this.
If you want to improve yourkicking, you're going to try
this.
So when you're with a lifecoach, you're saying, hey,
here's a specific problem.
Most, every coach has not all,but most of them have a specific
area or pain point they'regoing to help you with.
So for me that's like overcomingloneliness is kind of the
(12:01):
overarching theme of what I workwith people on Because you have
experience, lots of it, and,which is funny, because people
are like you get lonely becauseI'm so spastic and out there and
aggressively friendly, you know.
But that doesn't mean I don'tfeel lonely and have not battled
that right, but maybe it's likephysical, physical health or,
(12:22):
you know, there might be someother.
Whatever the area is,essentially, your coach is there
to be your coach to say, hey,here's where we're at right now.
So for me, I'm saying, okay,where are we at right now with
our support system?
Where are we at?
And feeling lonely?
Okay, where would you like tobe?
And then I'm going to talk withyou about all the thoughts,
because life coaching is a lotabout thought work.
(12:42):
There's definitely like othermodalities and different things
you can do, but that'sessentially the main part of it
is looking at what thoughts youhave.
So let's work on how are youapproaching this loneliness
right now?
Yes, and what are you doingabout it right now?
And I'm a safe space to say,sister, I got got you and let's
figure out how to get from hereto here.
(13:02):
Yes, you want to feel lesslonely, you want to feel seen
and supported.
You can totally get there.
I will help you.
I'm going to hold your hand andgive you guidance on how to get
to that space.
Please go to therapy still,like I love therapy.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I love that.
You know that's a great way totalk about the difference
between a counselor and a lifecoach.
The counselor is going to goback and talk about what
happened four or five games agoand is going to dive into some
deeper issues.
The life coach is going to saythis is where we're at here,
this is where we want to go talkabout steps.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Totally, and I think you should.
I recommend always, even ifyou're working with a coach,
with me or whoever, to still bediving into those other things
and because the therapist canalso talk about now or whatever,
and kind of link those patterns, things like that.
Like having that safe space, Ithink is still very important.
I'd like to think of it also aslike I'm like a mentor and
accountability coach, like I'mhere to kind of just be that
(13:54):
space to check in with you, oflike how we doing right, doing
okay.
You know, in fact I'm actuallyoffering like marco polo support
coaching so they can just marcowhen they're like having a
moment.
Yeah, like hey in fact, so far,my clients love that they can
just do that when they are mad,because if you sit down for a
session they're like oh well,four days ago I was really mad.
I remember all the detailsabout it?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
what was I mad?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
about something with my kid, I don't know.
Right life, right, lifehappened, yes.
But when you're in the momentyou're like I'm just like raw,
let it out, yes, right.
And then within like 24 to 48hours, I'm like, hey, sister, I
got you, yeah.
Yeah.
That's really hard because weall want to get seen in our pain
.
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
We all do Right experiencing, whatever it was,
all the things, the anger, thehurt, whatever we want to know,
it's okay that we experience it,not that we should stay
experiencing it.
Sure, that's exhausting, right?
Oh gosh, this moment was okay.
So, marco polo, I never thoughtabout that app.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
That is a great resource I've actually been
telling other coaches like,start using marco polo.
It's such an amazing resourceto be able to or you can use,
use Voxer or other modalities,right?
I just happen to love MarcoPolo in my own life.
I use it all the time and ithelps me feel less lonely
because I can be connected topeople.
Even if our schedules don'tline up, even if our phases of
life don't line up whatever, Icould still just hop on and, hey
(15:15):
, friend, here's my date today,right.
And then whenever they have aminute minute, they can get back
right.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's like a walkie talkie well, and I I would say
for life coaching, you probablycan review with them.
Okay, this is how you felt fourdays ago, like you said,
totally like I'm taking notesanyway, but yeah, but they can
even go back.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And what they like about my end of the marco polo
is that I'll give them things tothink about, like hey, I, I see
you, like I'm, I'm here withyou and I see you, and that is
so painful and I can understandwhy that's painful.
Like that, just really deepvalidation.
And then also what do we wantto do with this?
And I give them some questionslike what do you think about
this?
Or you know, what does thatword mean to you?
(15:53):
Can you define that for me?
Like kind of those you knowdeeper questions to kind of get
them thinking so we can pullourselves out of that space.
Right, and what's great for myclients is that they can go back
and listen to that.
Like my first my first I was afriend of mine who's so amazing
like let me pilot this and tryit out, and I asked her feedback
.
She was like my favorite partis that when I forget, what did
(16:14):
Annie say, I'll go back.
I can go back.
She's like, oh, yeah, she toldme to do this, this, this and
this got it right.
Yeah, and it's great.
She's like, oh, this is, myassignment was to do this and
this.
And we're not talking crazyassignments, right.
We're moms right.
Right, like what time you gotfor assignments?
I just mean, like take three tofive minutes to journal about
this thing, like what was comingup for you with this and what
(16:34):
pattern are you seeing there andwhat does this remind you of?
And you know things like thatto kind of get to.
We're going to get a little bitdeeper stuff.
It's not like we're notignoring the past, right.
We're just saying hey, did thatremind you something from the
past?
Cool, is it happening now?
Like just kind of getting clearon those things and so, and
that's really helpful yeah, thatloneliness can relate to
anxiety about future situationsand everything else.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So being able to go back to your messages, what a
great opportunity to say I needa quick reminder before I step
into a situation where I waslonely before and now I'm
anxious about it and all this,and or I'm feeling lonely again.
I can go back to this message.
I mean, what a greatopportunity for you to
technically reach out to yourclients more frequently than you
(17:18):
have to reach out to yourclients.
They have you on demand.
Right, I can pull back up whatshe told me three days ago,
three weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
That is so amazing.
They do have this option tojust like pop in whenever they
need to, right, and then I and Iwill even check in like hey,
just thinking about you.
You know, you've got this today, like I'll give you pep talks
if you need, like what is it youneed for your support and get
you to a space where, hopefully,eventually, you don't need me.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right, you know.
As you said, it's training ourthoughts to be different which
helps every area of our life.
If we can train ourselves tocontrol our thoughts, which then
loop right into our emotionsand behaviors.
We're going to train ourselvesfor more success, deeper and
more meaningful relationships,more stable relationships and
(18:04):
professional, personal, allthose kinds of things.
Yes, I love that.
So, reframing our thoughts, Ilove that and I talk to when I
work with the students that Iwork with and when I even talk
on the podcast about, sometimes,emotions.
I'm like we have to rememberour emotions are coming from a
different part of our brain, Yep, and so if we can bring
ourselves out of that part ofour brain and we can think about
it, then we're not making anemotional decision which then is
(18:27):
going to lead us down the roadwe don't want to be down 100%.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
It's a beautiful way of saying it.
I also like to say that whenwe're back in that other part of
our brain, there's no logicalthinking happening.
So when we acknowledge andvalidate and see that pain, it
goes way faster and we movethrough it a little quicker, yes
, and then we can come back tothe problem solving.
Nobody's problem solving whenthey're emotional Never.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
None of us are, or they're reacting, which later on
they realize wasn't thesolution.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Right, they think they might be problem solving.
But no good, maybe I should sayno good, problem solving is
happening when you are anemotional brain.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
That's true, that emotional brain likes to come up
with very creative solutions.
Sometimes like key cars and yeah, all the things, and not always
the best solution, not a greatsolution, yeah, so one of the
things we talked about wasspecial needs moms.
We can feel isolated or alone.
So how do you, as a specialneeds mom you said you've,
you've walked this walk how didyou find, first of all, find the
(19:23):
power and the strength toovercome it?
And then what?
What did you do to get throughit?
So we'll start with how did youfind that power and strength to
to do this walk?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
That's a really good way of phrasing it the power and
strength to walk this walk.
And before even answering that,I guess I just I want to speak
to anyone listening right nowwho's like well, sounds easy for
you because you're reallyoutgoing, you know.
Here's the thing whereveryou're at, I just want you to
know that I see you.
This is so painful, it is LikeI do not want to minimize in any
(19:53):
way, shape or form how painfulit is to feel really alone, even
if you have a family, even ifyou're in a room full of people.
That lonely feeling iscrippling at times, you know,
and it is so, so painful, and soI don't want to ever minimize
that and and so, yeah, sofinding the power and the
strength to overcome thatloneliness, I think was born
(20:15):
from a place of.
I can't do this anymore BecauseI have always been I shouldn't
say always.
I was pretty shy when I wasyounger with people outside my
family, but from probably like10 to 12 on, I've been pretty
loud and bombastic, like I justhave always been aggressively
friendly and just been out there.
So people don't think that I'mlonely and people never imagined
(20:37):
that I was depressed and Iattempted suicide at 21, and so
I'm well, actually 20.
I'm 41 now, and that started myjourney, though, of like
overcoming I don't like how Italk to myself, this is a
problem and so I mean it's takenmany, many years.
I started my mental healthjourney at that point.
Okay, enough is enough.
(20:58):
This is clearly not workingright.
Because I thought my world hadended it because my fiance had
cheated on me and I was nevergoing to be lovable.
That was the belief that I washanging on to with every fiber
was like I am not lovable, andwhen I lived in that so deeply
that I'm not lovable, the lastthing I wanted to live in was my
head anymore, right, and I waslike, nope, I want out.
(21:19):
It wasn't necessarily that Iwanted to die, it was that I
wanted that pain to stop.
So I think we have to havecompassion as well for those
who've attempted or succeeded insuicide, because it's it's so
painful.
They just want the pain to stop, right, and so that started the
okay.
Things got to change a littlebit, yeah, but my real like
(21:41):
transformation really happenedafter my second divorce.
Okay, so I have my two kiddosare with my second husband, and
it was a rough marriage.
We don't speak names or detailsout of respect, for that's my
father's, you know my kid'sfather.
Yeah, yeah, but I got you, butreally painful, really painful,
isolating marriage.
And I remember, after thatsecond divorce, laying face down
(22:05):
on the floor just like bawlingmy eyes out, like here I am
again and now I've got kids.
I've done a lot of work and I'mvery proud of myself.
I have picked myself up timeafter time again when I felt
depressed, I felt anxious, feltalone, put on a happy face for
everybody else, and especiallyyour kids and my children bless
their hearts.
And and I was like, okay,something has to give, because
(22:30):
one on the common denominator.
What's going on here?
Not because I'm a bad person,but there's something happening
here that I'm attracting thesame type of guy.
Why and it hit me so hard, it'sbecause that's what you think
you deserve oh yeah, I don'tdeserve anything better.
Why am I going to look foranything better?
Right and I'm tolerating thingsthat are not okay, and my
(22:51):
husband's also tolerated thingsfrom me that they probably
shouldn't have.
I definitely had my part toplay in my marriages not working
right.
Nobody's perfect.
We all contribute to problemsright, don't we all?
contribute and I I didn't.
I thought I had done so well,like being confident, but when I
really realized that the trueroot of that is, I needed to
find myself worth, that my worthdoes not change.
(23:13):
And in the book, worthy, Ithink it's jamie lena.
What's her name?
We'll look it up, we'll look itup.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I'll put it on my website for you guys.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I love it.
But the book's called Worthyand I love her definition of
self-worth.
Is your foundation, that's yourrock solid foundation.
It never changes, right.
Your worth never changes.
Your confidence is the houseyou build on the foundation.
Oh, so I think it's such a coolway to put it.
It's a great visual, right, andwe do have certain confidence
(23:43):
in certain areas, like I'mreally confident in some of my
talents and abilities, but maybein other areas I'm not as
confident, right.
So we're constantly buildingand maybe it gets torn down by
experiences.
They build it back up, so it'sa constant construction process
on this house on top of ourfoundation, and so I had to then
go back to okay, I needed to dothe work on my self-worth.
(24:04):
I've been trying to build myconfidence, but I had no
foundation.
I had to get back to.
Okay, if I don't like me, thenhow am I attracting anybody who
likes me?
And not that I didn't havegreat friends.
I definitely did, I still do.
I have friends from 20 plusyears that I adore.
But if I'm looking to stopfeeling lonely, I have to feel
(24:27):
at home in my own body.
And how do you do that?
Well, you have to change thenarrative in your head.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I love that You've talked so much about that, that
narrative, the way we talk toourselves about ourselves, our
circumstances, our world,everything.
And if we find ourselves caughtin the loop of speaking
negative about who we are, aboutwho we are in our roles of life
, but about who we are just as,like you said, that foundation,
(24:53):
who am I, then we are, we'resetting ourselves up for that
loneliness which, in a sense, isa toxicity that's going to
spread to our children.
Yeah, because they're going tolearn that pattern of behavior
even though we don't think we'reteaching it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Oh, they're doing anything we do, yes, please
bless.
When I hear my daughter playingwith her Barbies and she sounds
exactly like me, you know I'mlike oh okay, but sometimes it's
cute, like she'll say put yourseatbelt on, I love you too much
to see you what I say.
So good, sometimes it's goodthings.
So they hear the good and thebad.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
All the things in between?
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, talking about changingthe narrative in your head, and
that takes practice.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
So much practice.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Which is what, like you said, life coaching is all
about coaching you to changethat narrative.
You're going to say okay,you're going to send me a Marco,
right?
So they send you a Marco andthey say these are the thoughts
in my head right now I'm reallymad or I'm really hurt, or
whatever the emotions are.
These are the thoughts, this isthe narrative.
And then you can get back tothem and say hey, I hear you, I
can understand why you'refeeling that way.
(25:53):
So let's talk about how wechange our narrative so we can
stop feeling that way.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Right, and maybe you'll always feel that way,
essentially, sometimes rightlike I.
I'm 20 years into this practiceand I'm not perfect by any
stretch.
I even had a meltdown yesterday.
You know, like we're stillgonna have experiences, life is
still gonna happen, but ourresiliency with those things
does change when we learn how totalk to ourselves differently.
(26:20):
Right, and I can be alone.
I mean, I'm a single parent,meaning there are half the time
I'm totally alone in my house.
It's just me, and that was abig adjustment from I grew up in
a big family.
There are six kids in my familyand when I was married,
obviously I was never alone.
You know it's had its own setof problems, right, but but then
(26:41):
it was like, oh, I have toactually face, like being alone
and missing my kids and wishingI could be with them and just
facing all of that, and sothat's one piece of it is when
you can learn to reallygenuinely love yourself and I'm
talking like mad hearts abovethe eye crush on yourself.
You know what I'm saying.
You were like I love her somuch.
(27:02):
We are not talking aboutcockiness.
We're not talking aboutcockiness.
We're not talking about betterthan Right.
I don't think I'm better thananybody, right, but do I like me
?
Heck, yeah, I do Right.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I'm pretty awesome and you still know you have
weaknesses and challenges 100%.
And you still know that you'renot perfect.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
No, I have many things that I need support in,
like when I do my kindness campin the summer for girls.
I talk about strengths andsupports.
We all have strengths and thenthings we need support in.
Even calling it a weaknesssometimes can give the feeling
of lesser than you know orpowerless.
You know and not that it'smeant to be that way but it can
(27:39):
feel more empowering to saythese are things I need support
in.
You know, I am a fun person tobe around, but no one's asking
me to do their taxes.
You know what I'm saying.
Nor would they ever Would theyask for directions from me.
No, they would not.
But they want to talk to mebecause I'm fun to talk to.
We all have things that we'regood at and things that we're
not.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
That we're not good at, yeah, and that I'm, but I'm
done beating myself up forthings I'm not good at, and
that's why you want to helppeople create a community,
because we as humans humans areintended to be in community with
others, so we're intended tohave our strengths and have our
areas that we don't havestrengths, and the point of that
is that we can build each otherup, that we're not meant to
(28:19):
truly be alone, though there aretimes we should learn to be
confident in our loneliness.
Yeah, and because that's notour state of being.
It's just a moment, Totally.
And so overcoming that.
You know I love when you talkedabout you had to learn to truly
be alone, because it was silentin your house.
(28:39):
Kids were gone.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
It was silent, weird, weird silence.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yet probably 50% of the listeners would go.
Can I get that?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I know, because, listen, it sounds really cute
until you have it.
Until you have it, because,like, listen, the first two
weekends you'd be like heck,yeah, right.
And then after five yearsyou're like, oh well, can they
just come back now?
Yeah, I just miss them and Ijust want to hang out with them.
And things are actually betterwith my ex and I and we actually
have been doing more like I'vebeen watching them when he's at
(29:07):
work and, you know, helping eachother out and so more of a team
effort.
Now, yeah, there's, there's morechances for me to see them,
like on my not kid time, youknow, like even Monday and
Tuesday this week not my kidweek, but I had him after school
at my house to just hang outtill dad came, and you, you know
.
So we definitely have morecohesiveness there.
But there's still like todayI'm going to go home and my
(29:27):
house will be empty, you know.
And I think we have todifferentiate between being
alone and then feeling lonely.
Yes, Because I can be all bymyself and if I'm in a really
good headspace, I don't feellonely, right, I'm just chilling
myself.
You know what I mean.
But you can, like you saidbefore, you can be with people
and feel lonely and feel lonelyRight.
So it's this.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
It's what's happening up here, it's that headspace
Totally.
It's that narrative that wetell ourselves, yeah, so, all
right.
So what were some of thenarratives you had to flip to
help yourself get through thisSuch a good question?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Okay.
So one thing I thought aboutand I love these questions you
have and I was thinking aboutyeah, like, what are some like
actionable things right?
And the first thought that cameto my mind immediately was when
we say that no one understandsus right, and I think that
that's pretty common in thespecial needs world Because, yes
, we have friends around us andfamily members around us that
(30:22):
don't understand what ourexperience is, but the thought
of no one understands me or whatI'm going through is so
isolating it is, so the thoughtis more isolating than the
reality.
100%, because when you'rethinking, oh yeah, no one
understands me.
No one understands me.
You are creating isolation inyour own mind and you are
disconnecting yourself fromother people.
(30:42):
Here's the magic sauce.
You ready, I'm ready.
You probably already know this,but the magic sauce is our
experiences will never be thesame.
Right?
We're both special needsparents.
Our experiences are different.
They are Right, and I respectyours and I'm going to learn
from yours and honor what youhave to bring to the table.
Because of your experiences,and we've probably had similar
(31:03):
feelings.
Yes, because of yourexperiences, and we've probably
had similar feelings.
Yes, our connecting piece is thefeeling we felt lonely.
I don't think I've met a singlehuman being who hasn't felt
lonely.
We've all felt sad.
We've all felt angry, nervous,disappointed.
There's only so many feelingsto have.
Yeah, that's true, right, youcan have caveats like frustrated
, irritated but there's only somany feelings you're actually
(31:24):
going to have.
So that is where we find commonground, that's where we get
connected.
We can say, hey, tell me aboutyour experience.
And they'll hear that and say,oh man, I hear that so hard and
you validate them and you'relike man, I bet you felt really
fill in the blank.
You felt really angry when thatdoctor didn't listen to you.
Yes, man, really fill in theblank.
(31:45):
They felt really angry whenthat doctor didn't listen to you
.
Yes, man, I can totally relateto feeling angry about not being
listened to, right?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's super sucks, and I feel that for you, right.
When you told your story, thatwas exactly one of the thoughts
that went through my mind was ohmy gosh.
I remember that time when Icould completely just connect
with the feeling of how it wouldbe to experience that again.
Yeah, and then it also did helpme think how did I get through
it, right?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
yeah, totally, because we, like I have a um
there's a story about, there's awoman that I she's happily
married, 20 some years, you knowlove her so much.
We have roommates at a retreatand I had this trigger come up
around.
It's gonna be the first time Iwas gonna meet my ex's
girlfriend and it wasn't abouther, it just was all this pain
of like he's moved on, hedoesn't care about me anymore.
(32:31):
Just all this pain came up andI started bawling my face off
and I was so embarrassed andshe's like, oh honey, I got you
and just like rubbed my back andlet me get it out.
And she's like, yeah, I betthat's really painful.
And she just validated myfeelings.
She did not have to experiencewhat I experienced again,
happily married, she's notdealing with what I'm dealing
with, right.
And she felt seen by herbecause she was like, yeah, I
(32:53):
bet that's really scary and shecould relate to the scary.
She could relate to the fears.
Not, you know, meeting my kid'sstepmom, right, that was not a
thing.
We're all all happy now, all iswell, right, but this was years
ago and it just was a powerfullesson for me in we do not have
to stay in the same experiencesto connect.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So finding a way to connect with other people
regardless of experiences, moreon that emotional level of, I
can just understand youremotional pain, I can just
understand your emotional center, yeah, and I can help you walk
through the emotional part ofthis.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yes, totally, because again, that thought sorry, a
little microphone, I'm justsmacking you and it's not even
your fault the thought itself noone understands me is going to
create isolation.
Right, the thought of myexperiences are my experiences
and I can connect other peopleon emotions will feel connecting
(33:47):
, right.
So it's just the tweak in thewording.
Yeah, they don't get what it'slike to have the doctor tell you
you're crazy, right?
You know they don't know whatit's like to have your 11 year
old have a full-blown meltdownin the bookstore and have some
lady come up and say you're toocute to be getting so mad like
that.
Like you think he cares oneiota about what you think he's
(34:08):
cute.
You know he don't care what youthink about him.
Yeah, he does not care.
You think he's cute?
So no, and I just said he hasautism.
But thank you so much.
And then I went back to him.
You know, because I have justspent a lot of time sitting with
him in it.
I want people to do that for me.
I want people to sit with me inmy pain, right?
So, even if that's superembarrassing in the middle of
(34:28):
this bookstore, yes, to be likehey, bud, and I sit down on the
floor with him.
I'm like, hey, buddy, I hearyou want that book so bad and
you are so mad.
I hear you and I love youanyway.
I love you when you're mad, yep, and just sat with him and he
was screaming his face off.
Do you think that I let thatdeter me?
No, this lady deter me.
Heck.
(34:48):
No Right, because I amcommitted to being with my kid
in his moment of pain.
And then eventually we talkedhim through.
He calmed it down.
We went to the other bookstoreand got the book, like all was
well, you know.
But in that moment I was like Idon't care what anybody people
think, I'm just going to be herefor him.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
And that is so hard, because that is what leads to
loneliness too is worrying aboutwhat all the other thoughts are
, that are out there.
I read a blog and I actuallydid a little quick blurb about
it, and it was called Lady, GetControl of your Kid.
Oh boy, yes.
(35:26):
And it was written as this is aletter to the guy in the store
in the supermarket or somethinglike that, and it talked about
how it can be so isolating as aparent whose kid is having a
meltdown or having aninappropriate behavior of some
sort, or maybe it's actually noteven verbal at all, but the
child is completely drawingwithin and you know you have to
do something about it.
Sensory overload, whatever itis, even again, that
(35:50):
neurotypical child, even thatneurotypical child, can
experience these kinds ofsituations and when it happens,
a lot of times as parents we getdistracted by worrying about
other people's thoughts Totally,which takes us away from being
in the moment with our child.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yes, that's a beautiful point and so
understandable, right.
I totally get why we all dothat.
I still do it sometimes.
Yes, it's understandablebecause, like you said, we're
connection creatures.
We want to be not kicked out ofthe herd, right, so we don't
want to be too weird andwhatever, and so it's totally
understandable.
But it's that practice of likehey, because when I'm sitting in
(36:28):
that moment with him, I havetrained myself for the most part
, train myself to say they'regonna think I'm weird and that's
okay yep, that's okay, I likeme and I like my son and I'm
gonna send them all love andlight, yeah, and it's gonna be
fine.
that doesn't mean I don't getfrustrated sometimes.
I remember many years ago alady was like attacking me in
(36:50):
Chick-fil-A and I stormed outcrying and sat in the car just
like bawling my face off and mysweet sister-in-law we still
consider us family.
We don't say farmer, but thein-laws they are so sweet, I
love them.
But you know so sister-in-lawcame out with my chick-fil-a and
just like, let me get it out.
You know, bless her heart andher kids, not special needs.
(37:10):
Yeah, and she could totally bethere for me in that moment.
I did not handle it well backin the day, so I've definitely
had to grow into the space ofright now.
What do I care more about?
I mean, yes, I care thatthey're.
I'm never gonna say I don'tcare at all, right, I think
that's unrealistic right.
But I care more about my goal ofbeing here for my son, and they
(37:31):
can be wrong about me, right?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
that's another thought I love that they can be
wrong.
That's cool, and you can justlet them have that.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, we don't have to change their opinion.
No, but that comes back to likewhen I get very clear in my
value, then I know that that'stheir opinion's wrong.
But when I think that there'ssomething wrong with me, that's
where the real pain comes.
That's the problem.
The barb is in the little hook.
Is the what we?
Speaker 1 (37:59):
believe if we adopt their perception of us, then
we're the one that suffers.
Yes, that's perfect.
So what we have to do I lovethat, barb that barb, it sticks
in there.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
you know, that was so good.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
If we adopt someone else's perception, we will feel
the pain, Not them us.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Right and we believe it yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So we have to choose not to believe it, right, which?
Speaker 2 (38:22):
is not.
We're not saying that's easy.
No, we have to choose not tobelieve it Right, which is not.
We're not saying that's easy.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
No, it's not easy, but it's possible, sometimes
going to still come up even whenyou know you don't believe it.
It's almost like the devil onthe shoulder.
Yep, who's just like hey.
Remember that thought you hadand you have to again, even
though it's three years later orhowever long later, you have to
again go.
No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
No, thank you.
You're not welcome here,exactly Not today.
Not today.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Thank you.
So how do you coach parents whoare rejected or feel rejected
because of their children, in asense?
How do you coach them to copewith that rejection?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
That's a beautiful question.
I would say that it's goingback to taking a deep look at
are you rejecting you?
Okay, because if that personrejects you, are they for you?
Oh, yes, I see what you'resaying, are they?
Because there's going to bepeople in our life that don't
like us.
Yes, that's hard to accept.
It is so hard to accept Becausewe're like how could you not
(39:29):
love me?
No, like, look at cute, like,why wouldn't you love me, right?
In fact, one of my favoritejokes, like when I speak on
stage and stuff I talk about,like y'all may love me, but I
got two ex-husbands who disagreewith you, right?
So you're right.
And I think about it this waytoo like, imagine, like any
celebrity, can you tell me onethat everybody likes?
No, I'll wait.
Yeah, exactly, you cannot.
There's not a single person onearth that everybody likes.
(39:51):
So, the sooner we can come topeace in terms with that
rejection, that it doesn't meanyou're not lovable, because
that's the barb, right?
Yes, if they reject me, there'ssomething wrong with me, got it
?
If I know, there's nothingwrong with me, I'm just not
someone's flavor of snack pack,yeah, you know.
Then all right, it's gonna beokay.
(40:11):
But if I like my flavor and I'mgood with my flavor, it doesn't
mean it's not going to hurtwhen someone says I don't want
to be around you or I don't befriends with you.
But it's a pain on a differentlevel when you make it about you
.
I love that, right.
When you're like oh, there'ssomething flawed me, that's why
they don't want to be around me.
I'm the worst and we get inthese negative spirals, right.
(40:33):
You just go down and down anddown into a deep black hole.
Trust me, I've been in many ofthose deep black holes and I've
gotten better at catching at thetop Like, oh yep, we're going
down this road again.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I know that road identifying when you're at the
beginning of that spiral, oreven the middle.
Let's catch it, justidentifying it sure catch it at
the end.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
If you got it like it , just at one point be like oh
man, this is not working,because if someone doesn't want
to be around me, that's theirproblem.
Right, right, and I and again,and maybe if it's family, that's
gonna be a lot harder andstickier it is gonna be for sure
, and there maybe, needs to besome like conflict resolution
there, maybe some communicationcoaching going on, you know.
(41:14):
But I think at the end of theday, if you accept you and you
know your value, theirperception does not define your
value, right?
I'm actually practicing a lotwith dating apps right now.
Oh interesting, every timethings don't work out, I'm like
practicing, like painting on myhead, like their perception of
you does not define your value,right.
Right, because rejection isalso part of life.
(41:36):
It is a part of life and it'sso hard to to watch our kids get
rejected and they do.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
They do constantly and it almost hurts more than
when we are, because I'm justlike when my child gets rejected
, I actually react way morestrongly, yeah, than when I'm
rejected.
You and that mike are having aspecial relationship.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
It's fine I just love you.
It's fine.
That is true, because our kidsare like our heart outside of
our body.
Yes, so you feel so vulnerable,like when they're hurting.
We're like, no, because ourit's painful.
It really is, and that'sprobably a whole other
conversation too.
But but just again, knowingthat they don't want to be
around your child, that's areflection of where they're at.
(42:15):
Where they're at and I'm noteven saying it's reflection Like
they're a bad person, right?
I don't believe in bad people,right.
I think that that's just wherethey're at right now, that they
can't be in an accepting placeRight.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
They can't be in an accepting place.
They can't understand how tomake this work.
Hopefully they grow throughthat.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, we all hope that for them.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Just like we're trying to grow through that
feeling of not allowing thatbarb to just grab a hold of us
and to keep ourselves from doingthe spiral all the way down,
we're growing.
And so we hope that otherpeople are growing at the same
time that we're growing throughall of those things and
hopefully my experience withthem, crossing paths with me,
helps them on that journey.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
In the meantime, it sounds like you're not part of
my path, right?
Speaker 1 (42:59):
If you don't want to be around me, you're not, I'm
not part of your path, andthat's okay, and it doesn't mean
you're rejecting them becausemaybe they're going to join your
path later.
Sure, if you know they mightcome circle back around,
especially, like you said,family, it might be something
where you have to learn someskills and then come back
together later so they mightjoin your path later.
But right now, if that's notwhere they're supposed to be,
you have to, you really have tofocus on identifying who you are
(43:22):
.
Yes, I love that, identifyingwho you are, finding strength in
that.
So, if our listeners want toconnect with you, what are some
of the ways and I'll puteverything on the website.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
everybody.
What are some of the ways thatthey can connect with you?
Perfect, so my website is Anniejoycom and then Instagram is
Annie joyspeaks, and that's withan.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
IE correct.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yes, a N N I E J O Y.
Joy is my middle name, sothat's helpful.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I love it.
It's very fun.
I think that there was a littlepremonition when they put Joy
in the middle name there.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
You know it's so funny because it's a
generational name.
My grandma was Joy, my mom, hermiddle name is Joy, my middle
name is Joy.
And then my daughter, hermiddle name is Joy.
And what's funny is that Iwouldn't say the previous owners
of the name have been so joyfulBecause of their own pain,
(44:12):
right, and their pain and theirlack of skills and knowledge,
right.
I believe that both of them didthe very best what they could
and are still doing the bestthey can, right.
But I feel like I am a chainbreaker in what joy really looks
like.
And now getting to see daughter, yes, speak up for herself and
love herself at age of 10,that's amazing.
(44:33):
she's not perfect, she's 10 whennone of us ever get to be
perfect no, but people, whenthey meet her, will tell me,
like you named her, well, she'scharlotte joy, and she's such a
joyful person and she's such alight and it's so healing for me
because, yeah, I love my son ina very different special way,
right like when you have yourspecial needs kiddos.
It's so healing for me because Ilove my son in a very different
, special way, right like whenyou have your special needs
kiddos.
It's different, right, it'sdifferent.
(44:54):
And her, it's this differentconnection of I get to like,
reparent me through her and Iget to parent her the way that I
wish I was treated.
Yes, and treat her big feelingslike they're, you know,
something, to be acknowledgedand honored and and to be able
to teach the things that Ididn't know until I was in my
30s and teach her now and to seeher like, thrive and grow in
(45:15):
this confidence in herself andhow she treats other people and
how accepting and loving she is.
So it's fun because the namehas been a generational thing
and she has become thisembodiment of the word joy.
It's amazing she's a chainbreaker.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
I love that song.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
It is a song out there, by the way.
You can look it up.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I love that song, chain Breaker, and so the fact
that you identify yourself asone and you've seen, you've seen
the efforts that you have made,you've seen the fruits of your
labor, yeah, so that's amazing.
I'm so glad you came here tojoin me today.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Thank you so much, Me too this was so fun.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
We'll have to do this again for sure, maybe you can
pick a new topic at SpecialNeeds Moms, there's only a
million of them, that's true,that's true, so I'd love to have
you back again.
That'd be so fun.
Yes, so thank you so much, ofcourse.
Thank you everyone for joiningus and watching today.
We
Hi everyone, welcome to the Special Parent Podcast.
I'm Dr Deanna Iverson and I'mso glad you're here to join us
today.
I have a special guest with mehere, annie.
Would you please introduceyourself?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I would love to.
Yeah, I'm Annie and I'm a lifecoach and a mom of two, and I
love what I do because I'vestruggled myself with feeling
lonely.
I mean, who hasn't honestlyright?
But it's been a strugglebetween being a single mom and
being a special needs mom is adouble dose of feeling isolated
at times and I've learned thatthere really are ways to figure
(00:41):
that out and to not be wallowingin this loneliness.
And yeah.
So my kiddos are 10 and 11.
Oh boy, 18 months apart.
What a fun age they are.
You know what it is like thebest age right now.
I'm loving parenting at themoment not all of it, none of us
do but, like for the most part,like we're at a really fun age,
like everyone can play uno,everyone wipes their own butt
(01:02):
you know like everyone can likesort of like figure out lunch
you know right like I can playuno everyone wipes their own
butt.
You know like everyone can likesort of like figure out lunch.
You know right like I can sleepin on saturday because, like,
they'll just eat chips and watchyoutube and it's fine and
that's what saturday morningsare for.
It's okay, I mean how many?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
times did we get up and just shove cereal in our
mouth as we were watching somesort of cartoon we all did it
yeah we survived, surviving.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's totally like they a little self-sufficient
sort of you know.
So the sweet spot, but theystill think I'm funny.
Oh, that's nice, we're in agood place.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good one we have an 11-year-old,
so we have three, and myyoungest is 11, 11, 14, 17.
I spread mine out a little bitmore because I was so stressed.
Yeah yeah, it was all about theplan and the stress and it
didn't reduce the stress.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's just different yeah totally.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I like that, but I love how you mentioned it.
There's a level ofself-sufficiency that does take
some of the stress off being aparent.
And as special needs parents.
We know that there are someparents that never get quite
that level of self-sufficiencyTotally, which can even lead to
more feelings of isolated alone.
No one understands, I can't goanywhere because of what's going
(02:12):
on in my life, because I havesomeone who's still very
infant-like, in some ways, 100%,and so that's a level of stress
.
So that's why we wanted to talk, right, yes, and we wanted to
talk all about how we can kindof overcome that.
So first, all you did say youhave two, I have two, and one of
them does have autism.
You said yes, yes, my oldest.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
so my sweet little 11 year old.
He'll be 12 in january, but fornow he's 11 and we say, you
know, 11 evan, and uh, yeah, sohe is.
I guess we're like eight-ishyears into our, you know, doing
treatment for all the things.
He got diagnosed when he wastwo officially, and then, you
know, in Arizona they have youdo like the at-risk at first and
(02:52):
then they do like the permanentdiagnosis at like age six or so
and so, but around age threewas when we got like real
services and started doing allthe therapies and all the things
and all of that.
So, yeah, he is my greatest joyand my greatest teacher.
We'll put it that way, right?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I love that, because we do learn so much from our
children.
Yes, they're teaching us.
Well, let's start off withpatience.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh, so much patience.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
The patience there is , but they're also teaching us
about a level of love that Idon't think we would have ever
understood.
Oh yeah, and a level offorgiveness for, sometimes, the
other people in the world whoaren't responding in a way that
is conducive to raising aspecial needs child.
So I know that, and again,we're talking about isolation
and being alone, and that candefinitely key right in on that.
(03:45):
Yeah, totally for sure.
So, all right, seven, 11, 11.
Going to be 12.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You're going to have to come with me, right?
I know I've got to come with anew thing but for now it's
working.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So you said kind of right in the early stages you
knew that your child was alittle unique.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, well, his dad at first was definitely the one
that was like I think he hasautism at age one.
I was like, well, I don't know.
I mean we're first time parents, what do we know?
And I mean I'm breastfeeding,so I'm getting eye contact from
him, so it's like a different.
What's the word?
It's a.
Is that over?
Like a connection that wasdifferent.
It's just like a different,yeah, like a different
(04:21):
connection, a different, youknow experience than dad was
having.
Oh, yeah, right, not that dad'sexperience was wrong, it was
just different than mine, right.
And so at first I was like oh,maybe I don't know, and kind of
dropped it.
And then 18 months dad cameback again, Like I really think
he has it, he has a cousin withautism.
He's like I'm pretty, someresearch online was just, you
(04:47):
know, worried about it.
So I took like the m chatonline and it said he was high
risk.
Like okay, so went to thepediatrician and at first she
dismissed me.
Well, lots of kids don't talkto their two.
I was like I gave you likeseven other things, right
besides not talking to one ofthem.
Okay, yeah, and you didn't hearon any of those things, which
was kind of my first step inbecoming my kid's voice.
Yes, you know which, I'm sureanybody listening you are your
(05:07):
own kid's voice, right?
That's what we have to do asspecial needs parents.
We have to be the advocate,right we do.
And I remember being like,excuse me, you know, and that
fired me up and I've beenshouting loud and proud for him
ever since then.
But it took six months for themto finally say, oh yeah, you
(05:29):
should go to a developmental ped, you know.
And then they did the, you know, at risk diagnosis and did
early intervention, which wassorry, I think a joke in Arizona
.
I think it's not helpful.
It did not help us.
It's made me feel more alonethan ever.
Age two to three was probablywhen I felt more alone than ever
in my life, and not until wegot some like therapist, because
they're like, okay, here's thistherapist for you, they're
going to tell you what to do.
Like, do you think I have amaster's degree in occupational
(05:50):
therapy?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I do not Right and telling you what to do if then
they send you home, no one's, ina sense, watching you to see.
Am I doing it right?
Is it being effective?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I'm like like I don't know what I'm doing.
I did this, but did it workright?
Valid point, and they handed methis list of like 30 to 50 like
activities I could try forsensory stuff.
That's a lot, I'm all well.
Where does one start?
and how long am I doing saiditem on this list to know if
it's being effective, right,right, we did like the sensory
brushing and like the, you know,walking on certain objects or
(06:27):
whatever, like we tried allthese things I'm like, but I
don't know.
So I started.
I had to start getting reallyclear my own intuition, like
okay, friend is putting rocks inhis mouth, there we go, we got
some sensory things going on,right, I mean, I knew that
anyway, because the homie had apassy from like day one and was
not letting it go.
But also he'd walk on rocks onpurpose.
Oh, interesting, like, oh, okay, so get him some feet.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
input or whatever right.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
But their guidance was not helpful.
I'm sure they meant well andI'm sure they're doing the very
best they knew how to do, butleft mama feeling really alone.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
In one of my episodes I do talk about how to be a
partner with your doctors, andit's so true because they can
give you a lot of really greatadvice and they really usually
are really well-meaning from theheart.
They want the best for you andyour child, Sure, but they don't
live it Right and so they handyou what was it?
30?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
things.
Well, this was like the thearizona intervention, early
intervention, oh my gosh yeahthat's in the doctor it was.
They're like here's a list ofsensory stuff.
I'm like what am I doing withthis friggin list?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
like what do you want for me?
Right, and that's sooverwhelming.
It actually added more stressthan how much more stress like?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
are you serious right now?
so then when he started likeactual therapy, where I'd bring
it to them and say, okay, here'smy kid, right, and they're like
, okay, and they figured outright, they'd work through the
stuff.
So then we started seeing somemore progress.
He started aba therapy andoccupational and speech and he
did physical for like a hotminute, just music therapy, like
we did so many therapies.
I mean, the kid was so overthere by, I think in the
(07:59):
beginning.
Yes, know, like preschool andall the things, and we're going
to cure you, you know, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
My husband once said oh wait, that doesn't work.
Yeah, there's no cure actually.
No, actually that's not a thing.
Surprise, my husband actuallyone time said I can't wait for
the weekend.
So it's funny how you can havepeople around you all the time
and feel lonely 100.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Especially when you feel like you're under a
microscope.
Yeah, that's how I feel.
Everyone's watching what you'redoing.
Yeah, everyone's likemicromanaging my parenting and
if I do anything wrong, it'slike I've got 17 humans to
account to for my parenting andthis is my first time.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And I don't know what I'm doing, right?
Well, even if it was your fifthtime with a special needs kid,
everything's going to bedifferent.
And even with children that welike to call neurotypical, every
child is different.
Every child is going to respondto feedback in a different way,
to discipline, to positivefeedback, all of that, and then
you put in special needs.
I mean, parenting is exhaustingenough on its own.
And now here we add this where,like you said, there's so many
people around all the time whoare actually analyzing your
(09:07):
parenting.
Yeah, and it's not fun.
Yeah, not fun at all.
It's not just like you havefriends around hanging out.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
No, these people are.
They're taking notes, they'retaking data on the things you're
doing when you're a child andyou're like, listen, I'm doing
the best, I know how to do.
Can you put that in your notes?
Put that in your notes, pleasebless.
It was terrible and later onover the years I got used to
having someone over all the time, but it was definitely an
adjustment.
I mean, for those.
I mean everyone listening forthe most part is going to be a
(09:37):
special needs parent, probablyget that.
But maybe the friends you hangout with don't quite understand
that right, and that can feel alittle isolating too.
Sometimes when you haveexperiences they can't quite
understand.
We can dive into that a bitmore with, like, how to overcome
that, but but that can feelisolating.
When you feel like you have anexperience, they don't know what
it's like because someone inyour house all the time yeah,
(09:59):
and you have to get used to it,but it's not a cleaner, it's not
a maid, it's not a nanny yeah,it's someone who's analyzing
things, yep and so, and then youget together with your friends
and you're venting, becausethat's kind of what friendship
time is for a lot of times rightwe've got it.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
we've got to let some stress out, and everybody does
that, and then good willing,good meaning, friends and
families go well, have you, haveyou tried?
Yeah, and you're like mm-hmm.
And so now you feel like you'rejustifying or defending
yourself.
And they don't mean it that way, but that's how it kind of
impacts you.
It's like, oh, I have to justifyand defend this, Right, that's
(10:34):
a really good point.
And even if you're like, no, wehaven't tried it, but there's a
reason, right, haven't tried it, but there's a reason, you know
, right, caveat a, b, c and dyeah, right, totally.
So, yeah, no, I hear whatyou're saying on that one.
Um, so we've kind of talked alittle bit about that.
You said you're a life coach.
Can you please explain what isa life coach?
So many people have heard aboutit what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
yeah, totally in fact .
I met someone recently, like ina networking thing, like I had
my life.
I'm like I'm a life coach andthey're like what's that?
I'm like I just assume by nowmost people have heard of it,
but I'm still surprised thereare so many people that don't
know.
Which is fine.
I just live in my little bubbleof like coaching world and so I
think that everyone knows.
I think the best way to describea life coach is think of like a
(11:18):
soccer coach.
They are seeing what you'redoing and saying, hey, here's
some ideas, here's somesuggestions to improve your
skillset.
Yeah, we may not be divingsuper deep into like all the
things you did before soccerpractice.
Right, we're saying here atthis practice, right now, I'm
observing the actions you'retaking in the soccer game and
(11:39):
saying, hey, if you want toimprove making a goal, maybe try
this.
If you want to improve yourkicking, you're going to try
this.
So when you're with a lifecoach, you're saying, hey,
here's a specific problem.
Most, every coach has not all,but most of them have a specific
area or pain point they'regoing to help you with.
So for me that's like overcomingloneliness is kind of the
(12:01):
overarching theme of what I workwith people on Because you have
experience, lots of it, and,which is funny, because people
are like you get lonely becauseI'm so spastic and out there and
aggressively friendly, you know.
But that doesn't mean I don'tfeel lonely and have not battled
that right, but maybe it's likephysical, physical health or,
(12:22):
you know, there might be someother.
Whatever the area is,essentially, your coach is there
to be your coach to say, hey,here's where we're at right now.
So for me, I'm saying, okay,where are we at right now with
our support system?
Where are we at?
And feeling lonely?
Okay, where would you like tobe?
And then I'm going to talk withyou about all the thoughts,
because life coaching is a lotabout thought work.
(12:42):
There's definitely like othermodalities and different things
you can do, but that'sessentially the main part of it
is looking at what thoughts youhave.
So let's work on how are youapproaching this loneliness
right now?
Yes, and what are you doingabout it right now?
And I'm a safe space to say,sister, I got got you and let's
figure out how to get from hereto here.
(13:02):
Yes, you want to feel lesslonely, you want to feel seen
and supported.
You can totally get there.
I will help you.
I'm going to hold your hand andgive you guidance on how to get
to that space.
Please go to therapy still,like I love therapy.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I love that.
You know that's a great way totalk about the difference
between a counselor and a lifecoach.
The counselor is going to goback and talk about what
happened four or five games agoand is going to dive into some
deeper issues.
The life coach is going to saythis is where we're at here,
this is where we want to go talkabout steps.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Totally, and I think you should.
I recommend always, even ifyou're working with a coach,
with me or whoever, to still bediving into those other things
and because the therapist canalso talk about now or whatever,
and kind of link those patterns, things like that.
Like having that safe space, Ithink is still very important.
I'd like to think of it also aslike I'm like a mentor and
accountability coach, like I'mhere to kind of just be that
(13:54):
space to check in with you, oflike how we doing right, doing
okay.
You know, in fact I'm actuallyoffering like marco polo support
coaching so they can just marcowhen they're like having a
moment.
Yeah, like hey in fact, so far,my clients love that they can
just do that when they are mad,because if you sit down for a
session they're like oh well,four days ago I was really mad.
I remember all the detailsabout it?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
what was I mad?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
about something with my kid, I don't know.
Right life, right, lifehappened, yes.
But when you're in the momentyou're like I'm just like raw,
let it out, yes, right.
And then within like 24 to 48hours, I'm like, hey, sister, I
got you, yeah.
Yeah.
That's really hard because weall want to get seen in our pain
.
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
We all do Right experiencing, whatever it was,
all the things, the anger, thehurt, whatever we want to know,
it's okay that we experience it,not that we should stay
experiencing it.
Sure, that's exhausting, right?
Oh gosh, this moment was okay.
So, marco polo, I never thoughtabout that app.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
That is a great resource I've actually been
telling other coaches like,start using marco polo.
It's such an amazing resourceto be able to or you can use,
use Voxer or other modalities,right?
I just happen to love MarcoPolo in my own life.
I use it all the time and ithelps me feel less lonely
because I can be connected topeople.
Even if our schedules don'tline up, even if our phases of
life don't line up whatever, Icould still just hop on and, hey
(15:15):
, friend, here's my date today,right.
And then whenever they have aminute minute, they can get back
right.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's like a walkie talkie well, and I I would say
for life coaching, you probablycan review with them.
Okay, this is how you felt fourdays ago, like you said,
totally like I'm taking notesanyway, but yeah, but they can
even go back.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And what they like about my end of the marco polo
is that I'll give them things tothink about, like hey, I, I see
you, like I'm, I'm here withyou and I see you, and that is
so painful and I can understandwhy that's painful.
Like that, just really deepvalidation.
And then also what do we wantto do with this?
And I give them some questionslike what do you think about
this?
Or you know, what does thatword mean to you?
(15:53):
Can you define that for me?
Like kind of those you knowdeeper questions to kind of get
them thinking so we can pullourselves out of that space.
Right, and what's great for myclients is that they can go back
and listen to that.
Like my first my first I was afriend of mine who's so amazing
like let me pilot this and tryit out, and I asked her feedback
.
She was like my favorite partis that when I forget, what did
(16:14):
Annie say, I'll go back.
I can go back.
She's like, oh, yeah, she toldme to do this, this, this and
this got it right.
Yeah, and it's great.
She's like, oh, this is, myassignment was to do this and
this.
And we're not talking crazyassignments, right.
We're moms right.
Right, like what time you gotfor assignments?
I just mean, like take three tofive minutes to journal about
this thing, like what was comingup for you with this and what
(16:34):
pattern are you seeing there andwhat does this remind you of?
And you know things like thatto kind of get to.
We're going to get a little bitdeeper stuff.
It's not like we're notignoring the past, right.
We're just saying hey, did thatremind you something from the
past?
Cool, is it happening now?
Like just kind of getting clearon those things and so, and
that's really helpful yeah, thatloneliness can relate to
anxiety about future situationsand everything else.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So being able to go back to your messages, what a
great opportunity to say I needa quick reminder before I step
into a situation where I waslonely before and now I'm
anxious about it and all this,and or I'm feeling lonely again.
I can go back to this message.
I mean, what a greatopportunity for you to
technically reach out to yourclients more frequently than you
(17:18):
have to reach out to yourclients.
They have you on demand.
Right, I can pull back up whatshe told me three days ago,
three weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
That is so amazing.
They do have this option tojust like pop in whenever they
need to, right, and then I and Iwill even check in like hey,
just thinking about you.
You know, you've got this today, like I'll give you pep talks
if you need, like what is it youneed for your support and get
you to a space where, hopefully,eventually, you don't need me.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right, you know.
As you said, it's training ourthoughts to be different which
helps every area of our life.
If we can train ourselves tocontrol our thoughts, which then
loop right into our emotionsand behaviors.
We're going to train ourselvesfor more success, deeper and
more meaningful relationships,more stable relationships and
(18:04):
professional, personal, allthose kinds of things.
Yes, I love that.
So, reframing our thoughts, Ilove that and I talk to when I
work with the students that Iwork with and when I even talk
on the podcast about, sometimes,emotions.
I'm like we have to rememberour emotions are coming from a
different part of our brain, Yep, and so if we can bring
ourselves out of that part ofour brain and we can think about
it, then we're not making anemotional decision which then is
(18:27):
going to lead us down the roadwe don't want to be down 100%.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
It's a beautiful way of saying it.
I also like to say that whenwe're back in that other part of
our brain, there's no logicalthinking happening.
So when we acknowledge andvalidate and see that pain, it
goes way faster and we movethrough it a little quicker, yes
, and then we can come back tothe problem solving.
Nobody's problem solving whenthey're emotional Never.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
None of us are, or they're reacting, which later on
they realize wasn't thesolution.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Right, they think they might be problem solving.
But no good, maybe I should sayno good, problem solving is
happening when you are anemotional brain.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
That's true, that emotional brain likes to come up
with very creative solutions.
Sometimes like key cars and yeah, all the things, and not always
the best solution, not a greatsolution, yeah, so one of the
things we talked about wasspecial needs moms.
We can feel isolated or alone.
So how do you, as a specialneeds mom you said you've,
you've walked this walk how didyou find, first of all, find the
(19:23):
power and the strength toovercome it?
And then what?
What did you do to get throughit?
So we'll start with how did youfind that power and strength to
to do this walk?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
That's a really good way of phrasing it the power and
strength to walk this walk.
And before even answering that,I guess I just I want to speak
to anyone listening right nowwho's like well, sounds easy for
you because you're reallyoutgoing, you know.
Here's the thing whereveryou're at, I just want you to
know that I see you.
This is so painful, it is LikeI do not want to minimize in any
(19:53):
way, shape or form how painfulit is to feel really alone, even
if you have a family, even ifyou're in a room full of people.
That lonely feeling iscrippling at times, you know,
and it is so, so painful, and soI don't want to ever minimize
that and and so, yeah, sofinding the power and the
strength to overcome thatloneliness, I think was born
(20:15):
from a place of.
I can't do this anymore BecauseI have always been I shouldn't
say always.
I was pretty shy when I wasyounger with people outside my
family, but from probably like10 to 12 on, I've been pretty
loud and bombastic, like I justhave always been aggressively
friendly and just been out there.
So people don't think that I'mlonely and people never imagined
(20:37):
that I was depressed and Iattempted suicide at 21, and so
I'm well, actually 20.
I'm 41 now, and that started myjourney, though, of like
overcoming I don't like how Italk to myself, this is a
problem and so I mean it's takenmany, many years.
I started my mental healthjourney at that point.
Okay, enough is enough.
(20:58):
This is clearly not workingright.
Because I thought my world hadended it because my fiance had
cheated on me and I was nevergoing to be lovable.
That was the belief that I washanging on to with every fiber
was like I am not lovable, andwhen I lived in that so deeply
that I'm not lovable, the lastthing I wanted to live in was my
head anymore, right, and I waslike, nope, I want out.
(21:19):
It wasn't necessarily that Iwanted to die, it was that I
wanted that pain to stop.
So I think we have to havecompassion as well for those
who've attempted or succeeded insuicide, because it's it's so
painful.
They just want the pain to stop, right, and so that started the
okay.
Things got to change a littlebit, yeah, but my real like
(21:41):
transformation really happenedafter my second divorce.
Okay, so I have my two kiddosare with my second husband, and
it was a rough marriage.
We don't speak names or detailsout of respect, for that's my
father's, you know my kid'sfather.
Yeah, yeah, but I got you, butreally painful, really painful,
isolating marriage.
And I remember, after thatsecond divorce, laying face down
(22:05):
on the floor just like bawlingmy eyes out, like here I am
again and now I've got kids.
I've done a lot of work and I'mvery proud of myself.
I have picked myself up timeafter time again when I felt
depressed, I felt anxious, feltalone, put on a happy face for
everybody else, and especiallyyour kids and my children bless
their hearts.
And and I was like, okay,something has to give, because
(22:30):
one on the common denominator.
What's going on here?
Not because I'm a bad person,but there's something happening
here that I'm attracting thesame type of guy.
Why and it hit me so hard, it'sbecause that's what you think
you deserve oh yeah, I don'tdeserve anything better.
Why am I going to look foranything better?
Right and I'm tolerating thingsthat are not okay, and my
(22:51):
husband's also tolerated thingsfrom me that they probably
shouldn't have.
I definitely had my part toplay in my marriages not working
right.
Nobody's perfect.
We all contribute to problemsright, don't we all?
contribute and I I didn't.
I thought I had done so well,like being confident, but when I
really realized that the trueroot of that is, I needed to
find myself worth, that my worthdoes not change.
(23:13):
And in the book, worthy, Ithink it's jamie lena.
What's her name?
We'll look it up, we'll look itup.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I'll put it on my website for you guys.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I love it.
But the book's called Worthyand I love her definition of
self-worth.
Is your foundation, that's yourrock solid foundation.
It never changes, right.
Your worth never changes.
Your confidence is the houseyou build on the foundation.
Oh, so I think it's such a coolway to put it.
It's a great visual, right, andwe do have certain confidence
(23:43):
in certain areas, like I'mreally confident in some of my
talents and abilities, but maybein other areas I'm not as
confident, right.
So we're constantly buildingand maybe it gets torn down by
experiences.
They build it back up, so it'sa constant construction process
on this house on top of ourfoundation, and so I had to then
go back to okay, I needed to dothe work on my self-worth.
(24:04):
I've been trying to build myconfidence, but I had no
foundation.
I had to get back to.
Okay, if I don't like me, thenhow am I attracting anybody who
likes me?
And not that I didn't havegreat friends.
I definitely did, I still do.
I have friends from 20 plusyears that I adore.
But if I'm looking to stopfeeling lonely, I have to feel
(24:27):
at home in my own body.
And how do you do that?
Well, you have to change thenarrative in your head.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I love that You've talked so much about that, that
narrative, the way we talk toourselves about ourselves, our
circumstances, our world,everything.
And if we find ourselves caughtin the loop of speaking
negative about who we are, aboutwho we are in our roles of life
, but about who we are just as,like you said, that foundation,
(24:53):
who am I, then we are, we'resetting ourselves up for that
loneliness which, in a sense, isa toxicity that's going to
spread to our children.
Yeah, because they're going tolearn that pattern of behavior
even though we don't think we'reteaching it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Oh, they're doing anything we do, yes, please
bless.
When I hear my daughter playingwith her Barbies and she sounds
exactly like me, you know I'mlike oh okay, but sometimes it's
cute, like she'll say put yourseatbelt on, I love you too much
to see you what I say.
So good, sometimes it's goodthings.
So they hear the good and thebad.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
All the things in between?
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, talking about changingthe narrative in your head, and
that takes practice.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
So much practice.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Which is what, like you said, life coaching is all
about coaching you to changethat narrative.
You're going to say okay,you're going to send me a Marco,
right?
So they send you a Marco andthey say these are the thoughts
in my head right now I'm reallymad or I'm really hurt, or
whatever the emotions are.
These are the thoughts, this isthe narrative.
And then you can get back tothem and say hey, I hear you, I
can understand why you'refeeling that way.
(25:53):
So let's talk about how wechange our narrative so we can
stop feeling that way.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Right, and maybe you'll always feel that way,
essentially, sometimes rightlike I.
I'm 20 years into this practiceand I'm not perfect by any
stretch.
I even had a meltdown yesterday.
You know, like we're stillgonna have experiences, life is
still gonna happen, but ourresiliency with those things
does change when we learn how totalk to ourselves differently.
(26:20):
Right, and I can be alone.
I mean, I'm a single parent,meaning there are half the time
I'm totally alone in my house.
It's just me, and that was abig adjustment from I grew up in
a big family.
There are six kids in my familyand when I was married,
obviously I was never alone.
You know it's had its own setof problems, right, but but then
(26:41):
it was like, oh, I have toactually face, like being alone
and missing my kids and wishingI could be with them and just
facing all of that, and sothat's one piece of it is when
you can learn to reallygenuinely love yourself and I'm
talking like mad hearts abovethe eye crush on yourself.
You know what I'm saying.
You were like I love her somuch.
(27:02):
We are not talking aboutcockiness.
We're not talking aboutcockiness.
We're not talking about betterthan Right.
I don't think I'm better thananybody, right, but do I like me
?
Heck, yeah, I do Right.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I'm pretty awesome and you still know you have
weaknesses and challenges 100%.
And you still know that you'renot perfect.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
No, I have many things that I need support in,
like when I do my kindness campin the summer for girls.
I talk about strengths andsupports.
We all have strengths and thenthings we need support in.
Even calling it a weaknesssometimes can give the feeling
of lesser than you know orpowerless.
You know and not that it'smeant to be that way but it can
(27:39):
feel more empowering to saythese are things I need support
in.
You know, I am a fun person tobe around, but no one's asking
me to do their taxes.
You know what I'm saying.
Nor would they ever Would theyask for directions from me.
No, they would not.
But they want to talk to mebecause I'm fun to talk to.
We all have things that we'regood at and things that we're
not.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
That we're not good at, yeah, and that I'm, but I'm
done beating myself up forthings I'm not good at, and
that's why you want to helppeople create a community,
because we as humans humans areintended to be in community with
others, so we're intended tohave our strengths and have our
areas that we don't havestrengths, and the point of that
is that we can build each otherup, that we're not meant to
(28:19):
truly be alone, though there aretimes we should learn to be
confident in our loneliness.
Yeah, and because that's notour state of being.
It's just a moment, Totally.
And so overcoming that.
You know I love when you talkedabout you had to learn to truly
be alone, because it was silentin your house.
(28:39):
Kids were gone.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
It was silent, weird, weird silence.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yet probably 50% of the listeners would go.
Can I get that?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I know, because, listen, it sounds really cute
until you have it.
Until you have it, because,like, listen, the first two
weekends you'd be like heck,yeah, right.
And then after five yearsyou're like, oh well, can they
just come back now?
Yeah, I just miss them and Ijust want to hang out with them.
And things are actually betterwith my ex and I and we actually
have been doing more like I'vebeen watching them when he's at
(29:07):
work and, you know, helping eachother out and so more of a team
effort.
Now, yeah, there's, there's morechances for me to see them,
like on my not kid time, youknow, like even Monday and
Tuesday this week not my kidweek, but I had him after school
at my house to just hang outtill dad came, and you, you know
.
So we definitely have morecohesiveness there.
But there's still like todayI'm going to go home and my
(29:27):
house will be empty, you know.
And I think we have todifferentiate between being
alone and then feeling lonely.
Yes, Because I can be all bymyself and if I'm in a really
good headspace, I don't feellonely, right, I'm just chilling
myself.
You know what I mean.
But you can, like you saidbefore, you can be with people
and feel lonely and feel lonelyRight.
So it's this.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
It's what's happening up here, it's that headspace
Totally.
It's that narrative that wetell ourselves, yeah, so, all
right.
So what were some of thenarratives you had to flip to
help yourself get through thisSuch a good question?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Okay.
So one thing I thought aboutand I love these questions you
have and I was thinking aboutyeah, like, what are some like
actionable things right?
And the first thought that cameto my mind immediately was when
we say that no one understandsus right, and I think that
that's pretty common in thespecial needs world Because, yes
, we have friends around us andfamily members around us that
(30:22):
don't understand what ourexperience is, but the thought
of no one understands me or whatI'm going through is so
isolating it is, so the thoughtis more isolating than the
reality.
100%, because when you'rethinking, oh yeah, no one
understands me.
No one understands me.
You are creating isolation inyour own mind and you are
disconnecting yourself fromother people.
(30:42):
Here's the magic sauce.
You ready, I'm ready.
You probably already know this,but the magic sauce is our
experiences will never be thesame.
Right?
We're both special needsparents.
Our experiences are different.
They are Right, and I respectyours and I'm going to learn
from yours and honor what youhave to bring to the table.
Because of your experiences,and we've probably had similar
(31:03):
feelings.
Yes, because of yourexperiences, and we've probably
had similar feelings.
Yes, our connecting piece is thefeeling we felt lonely.
I don't think I've met a singlehuman being who hasn't felt
lonely.
We've all felt sad.
We've all felt angry, nervous,disappointed.
There's only so many feelingsto have.
Yeah, that's true, right, youcan have caveats like frustrated
, irritated but there's only somany feelings you're actually
(31:24):
going to have.
So that is where we find commonground, that's where we get
connected.
We can say, hey, tell me aboutyour experience.
And they'll hear that and say,oh man, I hear that so hard and
you validate them and you'relike man, I bet you felt really
fill in the blank.
You felt really angry when thatdoctor didn't listen to you.
Yes, man, really fill in theblank.
(31:45):
They felt really angry whenthat doctor didn't listen to you
.
Yes, man, I can totally relateto feeling angry about not being
listened to, right?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's super sucks, and I feel that for you, right.
When you told your story, thatwas exactly one of the thoughts
that went through my mind was ohmy gosh.
I remember that time when Icould completely just connect
with the feeling of how it wouldbe to experience that again.
Yeah, and then it also did helpme think how did I get through
it, right?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
yeah, totally, because we, like I have a um
there's a story about, there's awoman that I she's happily
married, 20 some years, you knowlove her so much.
We have roommates at a retreatand I had this trigger come up
around.
It's gonna be the first time Iwas gonna meet my ex's
girlfriend and it wasn't abouther, it just was all this pain
of like he's moved on, hedoesn't care about me anymore.
(32:31):
Just all this pain came up andI started bawling my face off
and I was so embarrassed andshe's like, oh honey, I got you
and just like rubbed my back andlet me get it out.
And she's like, yeah, I betthat's really painful.
And she just validated myfeelings.
She did not have to experiencewhat I experienced again,
happily married, she's notdealing with what I'm dealing
with, right.
And she felt seen by herbecause she was like, yeah, I
(32:53):
bet that's really scary and shecould relate to the scary.
She could relate to the fears.
Not, you know, meeting my kid'sstepmom, right, that was not a
thing.
We're all all happy now, all iswell, right, but this was years
ago and it just was a powerfullesson for me in we do not have
to stay in the same experiencesto connect.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So finding a way to connect with other people
regardless of experiences, moreon that emotional level of, I
can just understand youremotional pain, I can just
understand your emotional center, yeah, and I can help you walk
through the emotional part ofthis.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yes, totally, because again, that thought sorry, a
little microphone, I'm justsmacking you and it's not even
your fault the thought itself noone understands me is going to
create isolation.
Right, the thought of myexperiences are my experiences
and I can connect other peopleon emotions will feel connecting
(33:47):
, right.
So it's just the tweak in thewording.
Yeah, they don't get what it'slike to have the doctor tell you
you're crazy, right?
You know they don't know whatit's like to have your 11 year
old have a full-blown meltdownin the bookstore and have some
lady come up and say you're toocute to be getting so mad like
that.
Like you think he cares oneiota about what you think he's
(34:08):
cute.
You know he don't care what youthink about him.
Yeah, he does not care.
You think he's cute?
So no, and I just said he hasautism.
But thank you so much.
And then I went back to him.
You know, because I have justspent a lot of time sitting with
him in it.
I want people to do that for me.
I want people to sit with me inmy pain, right?
So, even if that's superembarrassing in the middle of
(34:28):
this bookstore, yes, to be likehey, bud, and I sit down on the
floor with him.
I'm like, hey, buddy, I hearyou want that book so bad and
you are so mad.
I hear you and I love youanyway.
I love you when you're mad, yep, and just sat with him and he
was screaming his face off.
Do you think that I let thatdeter me?
No, this lady deter me.
Heck.
(34:48):
No Right, because I amcommitted to being with my kid
in his moment of pain.
And then eventually we talkedhim through.
He calmed it down.
We went to the other bookstoreand got the book, like all was
well, you know.
But in that moment I was like Idon't care what anybody people
think, I'm just going to be herefor him.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
And that is so hard, because that is what leads to
loneliness too is worrying aboutwhat all the other thoughts are
, that are out there.
I read a blog and I actuallydid a little quick blurb about
it, and it was called Lady, GetControl of your Kid.
Oh boy, yes.
(35:26):
And it was written as this is aletter to the guy in the store
in the supermarket or somethinglike that, and it talked about
how it can be so isolating as aparent whose kid is having a
meltdown or having aninappropriate behavior of some
sort, or maybe it's actually noteven verbal at all, but the
child is completely drawingwithin and you know you have to
do something about it.
Sensory overload, whatever itis, even again, that
(35:50):
neurotypical child, even thatneurotypical child, can
experience these kinds ofsituations and when it happens,
a lot of times as parents we getdistracted by worrying about
other people's thoughts Totally,which takes us away from being
in the moment with our child.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yes, that's a beautiful point and so
understandable, right.
I totally get why we all dothat.
I still do it sometimes.
Yes, it's understandablebecause, like you said, we're
connection creatures.
We want to be not kicked out ofthe herd, right, so we don't
want to be too weird andwhatever, and so it's totally
understandable.
But it's that practice of likehey, because when I'm sitting in
(36:28):
that moment with him, I havetrained myself for the most part
, train myself to say they'regonna think I'm weird and that's
okay yep, that's okay, I likeme and I like my son and I'm
gonna send them all love andlight, yeah, and it's gonna be
fine.
that doesn't mean I don't getfrustrated sometimes.
I remember many years ago alady was like attacking me in
(36:50):
Chick-fil-A and I stormed outcrying and sat in the car just
like bawling my face off and mysweet sister-in-law we still
consider us family.
We don't say farmer, but thein-laws they are so sweet, I
love them.
But you know so sister-in-lawcame out with my chick-fil-a and
just like, let me get it out.
You know, bless her heart andher kids, not special needs.
(37:10):
Yeah, and she could totally bethere for me in that moment.
I did not handle it well backin the day, so I've definitely
had to grow into the space ofright now.
What do I care more about?
I mean, yes, I care thatthey're.
I'm never gonna say I don'tcare at all, right, I think
that's unrealistic right.
But I care more about my goal ofbeing here for my son, and they
(37:31):
can be wrong about me, right?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
that's another thought I love that they can be
wrong.
That's cool, and you can justlet them have that.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, we don't have to change their opinion.
No, but that comes back to likewhen I get very clear in my
value, then I know that that'stheir opinion's wrong.
But when I think that there'ssomething wrong with me, that's
where the real pain comes.
That's the problem.
The barb is in the little hook.
Is the what we?
Speaker 1 (37:59):
believe if we adopt their perception of us, then
we're the one that suffers.
Yes, that's perfect.
So what we have to do I lovethat, barb that barb, it sticks
in there.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
you know, that was so good.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
If we adopt someone else's perception, we will feel
the pain, Not them us.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Right and we believe it yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So we have to choose not to believe it, right, which?
Speaker 2 (38:22):
is not.
We're not saying that's easy.
No, we have to choose not tobelieve it Right, which is not.
We're not saying that's easy.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
No, it's not easy, but it's possible, sometimes
going to still come up even whenyou know you don't believe it.
It's almost like the devil onthe shoulder.
Yep, who's just like hey.
Remember that thought you hadand you have to again, even
though it's three years later orhowever long later, you have to
again go.
No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
No, thank you.
You're not welcome here,exactly Not today.
Not today.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Thank you.
So how do you coach parents whoare rejected or feel rejected
because of their children, in asense?
How do you coach them to copewith that rejection?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
That's a beautiful question.
I would say that it's goingback to taking a deep look at
are you rejecting you?
Okay, because if that personrejects you, are they for you?
Oh, yes, I see what you'resaying, are they?
Because there's going to bepeople in our life that don't
like us.
Yes, that's hard to accept.
It is so hard to accept Becausewe're like how could you not
(39:29):
love me?
No, like, look at cute, like,why wouldn't you love me, right?
In fact, one of my favoritejokes, like when I speak on
stage and stuff I talk about,like y'all may love me, but I
got two ex-husbands who disagreewith you, right?
So you're right.
And I think about it this waytoo like, imagine, like any
celebrity, can you tell me onethat everybody likes?
No, I'll wait.
Yeah, exactly, you cannot.
There's not a single person onearth that everybody likes.
(39:51):
So, the sooner we can come topeace in terms with that
rejection, that it doesn't meanyou're not lovable, because
that's the barb, right?
Yes, if they reject me, there'ssomething wrong with me, got it
?
If I know, there's nothingwrong with me, I'm just not
someone's flavor of snack pack,yeah, you know.
Then all right, it's gonna beokay.
(40:11):
But if I like my flavor and I'mgood with my flavor, it doesn't
mean it's not going to hurtwhen someone says I don't want
to be around you or I don't befriends with you.
But it's a pain on a differentlevel when you make it about you
.
I love that, right.
When you're like oh, there'ssomething flawed me, that's why
they don't want to be around me.
I'm the worst and we get inthese negative spirals, right.
(40:33):
You just go down and down anddown into a deep black hole.
Trust me, I've been in many ofthose deep black holes and I've
gotten better at catching at thetop Like, oh yep, we're going
down this road again.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I know that road identifying when you're at the
beginning of that spiral, oreven the middle.
Let's catch it, justidentifying it sure catch it at
the end.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
If you got it like it , just at one point be like oh
man, this is not working,because if someone doesn't want
to be around me, that's theirproblem.
Right, right, and I and again,and maybe if it's family, that's
gonna be a lot harder andstickier it is gonna be for sure
, and there maybe, needs to besome like conflict resolution
there, maybe some communicationcoaching going on, you know.
(41:14):
But I think at the end of theday, if you accept you and you
know your value, theirperception does not define your
value, right?
I'm actually practicing a lotwith dating apps right now.
Oh interesting, every timethings don't work out, I'm like
practicing, like painting on myhead, like their perception of
you does not define your value,right.
Right, because rejection isalso part of life.
(41:36):
It is a part of life and it'sso hard to to watch our kids get
rejected and they do.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
They do constantly and it almost hurts more than
when we are, because I'm justlike when my child gets rejected
, I actually react way morestrongly, yeah, than when I'm
rejected.
You and that mike are having aspecial relationship.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
It's fine I just love you.
It's fine.
That is true, because our kidsare like our heart outside of
our body.
Yes, so you feel so vulnerable,like when they're hurting.
We're like, no, because ourit's painful.
It really is, and that'sprobably a whole other
conversation too.
But but just again, knowingthat they don't want to be
around your child, that's areflection of where they're at.
(42:15):
Where they're at and I'm noteven saying it's reflection Like
they're a bad person, right?
I don't believe in bad people,right.
I think that that's just wherethey're at right now, that they
can't be in an accepting placeRight.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
They can't be in an accepting place.
They can't understand how tomake this work.
Hopefully they grow throughthat.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, we all hope that for them.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Just like we're trying to grow through that
feeling of not allowing thatbarb to just grab a hold of us
and to keep ourselves from doingthe spiral all the way down,
we're growing.
And so we hope that otherpeople are growing at the same
time that we're growing throughall of those things and
hopefully my experience withthem, crossing paths with me,
helps them on that journey.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
In the meantime, it sounds like you're not part of
my path, right?
Speaker 1 (42:59):
If you don't want to be around me, you're not, I'm
not part of your path, andthat's okay, and it doesn't mean
you're rejecting them becausemaybe they're going to join your
path later.
Sure, if you know they mightcome circle back around,
especially, like you said,family, it might be something
where you have to learn someskills and then come back
together later so they mightjoin your path later.
But right now, if that's notwhere they're supposed to be,
you have to, you really have tofocus on identifying who you are
(43:22):
.
Yes, I love that, identifyingwho you are, finding strength in
that.
So, if our listeners want toconnect with you, what are some
of the ways and I'll puteverything on the website.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
everybody.
What are some of the ways thatthey can connect with you?
Perfect, so my website is Anniejoycom and then Instagram is
Annie joyspeaks, and that's withan.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
IE correct.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yes, a N N I E J O Y.
Joy is my middle name, sothat's helpful.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I love it.
It's very fun.
I think that there was a littlepremonition when they put Joy
in the middle name there.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
You know it's so funny because it's a
generational name.
My grandma was Joy, my mom, hermiddle name is Joy, my middle
name is Joy.
And then my daughter, hermiddle name is Joy.
And what's funny is that Iwouldn't say the previous owners
of the name have been so joyfulBecause of their own pain,
(44:12):
right, and their pain and theirlack of skills and knowledge,
right.
I believe that both of them didthe very best what they could
and are still doing the bestthey can, right.
But I feel like I am a chainbreaker in what joy really looks
like.
And now getting to see daughter, yes, speak up for herself and
love herself at age of 10,that's amazing.
(44:33):
she's not perfect, she's 10 whennone of us ever get to be
perfect no, but people, whenthey meet her, will tell me,
like you named her, well, she'scharlotte joy, and she's such a
joyful person and she's such alight and it's so healing for me
because, yeah, I love my son ina very different special way,
right like when you have yourspecial needs kiddos.
It's so healing for me because Ilove my son in a very different
, special way, right like whenyou have your special needs
kiddos.
It's different, right, it'sdifferent.
(44:54):
And her, it's this differentconnection of I get to like,
reparent me through her and Iget to parent her the way that I
wish I was treated.
Yes, and treat her big feelingslike they're, you know,
something, to be acknowledgedand honored and and to be able
to teach the things that Ididn't know until I was in my
30s and teach her now and to seeher like, thrive and grow in
(45:15):
this confidence in herself andhow she treats other people and
how accepting and loving she is.
So it's fun because the namehas been a generational thing
and she has become thisembodiment of the word joy.
It's amazing she's a chainbreaker.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
I love that song.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
It is a song out there, by the way.
You can look it up.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I love that song, chain Breaker, and so the fact
that you identify yourself asone and you've seen, you've seen
the efforts that you have made,you've seen the fruits of your
labor, yeah, so that's amazing.
I'm so glad you came here tojoin me today.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Thank you so much, Me too this was so fun.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
We'll have to do this again for sure, maybe you can
pick a new topic at SpecialNeeds Moms, there's only a
million of them, that's true,that's true, so I'd love to have
you back again.
That'd be so fun.
Yes, so thank you so much, ofcourse.
Thank you everyone for joiningus and watching today.
We
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