The Spillway
What does it mean to be a White person in the US today? Any mention of race sets off an immediate reaction across the political spectrum. If you mention race: you’re racist. If you don’t mention race: you’re racist. You’re contemplating not even listening to this podcast now that you know it's about race. You don’t need to think about being White, right? Racism doesn’t exist, that book club you had in 2020 for two months taught you everything you needed to know, or your best friend is Diné, right? Notably, a majority of White people seem to have the same reactions over and over again when race is mentioned: Anger. Helplessness. Denial. Feeling overwhelmed. Shame. Irritability. Depersonalization. Elevated cortisol levels. Racing thoughts. Reactivation. Withdrawal. Engagement in high-risk behaviors. Disruption of life assumptions. Increased cynicism. Argumentative behavior. These repeated experiences indicate an inability to move on — a trauma response. Then three things happen: 1. We deny that we have this experience and blame an “other” (example: “If only the liberals…” “It’s the conservatives who…”) 2. Mention “trauma,” and we unleash mental health stigmas. Or worse yet, White people can acknowledge it’s a trauma while also choosing not to care because White people are experiencing it. 3. We start the cycle over again. To compound this: White people will become a racial minority in the US by 2045. The social experiences of race will change. How we currently talk about race has been so informed by the past that we’ve lost sight of the future of race in the US. If race isn’t a problem, then it shouldn’t be a problem to talk about. The Spillway isn’t exclusive to conservatives or liberals. We’re not here to repeat talking points from The Daily Wire or The Daily Show. We made it for White people, not a political or media ideology. The Spillway exists to make sense of this changing social landscape while creating meaningful spaces for White people to talk, think, and explore conversations of race without shame or judgment. As White people, we often didn’t grow up thinking about race. And when we talked about racism, it was usually only in history class, not around our nightly kitchen table. At The Spillway, we are trying to build racial literacy within White culture. And we’re going to do that by centering understanding, compassion, empathy, love, and patience in our work. Not supremacy. Not shame. So we're going to talk to experts, public thinkers, academics, and everyday White people, each of us trying to make sense of this ever-changing social landscape as White people. All of this with the goal of healing our traumas and preventing the trauma of others.
Episodes
Welcome to The Spillway.
If this is your first time here, we ask that you please start with this episode. We don't want to throw you into the deep end.
Join Loran as we go over the foundation of The Spillway and the best tips and tricks as to how to approach this series. Ultimately, this is a work that is more like a book than a conventional podcast and is constructed as a serial.
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What does it mean to be a White person in the US today?
If you mention or see race, you're racist.
If you don't mention or see race, you're racist.
A few months ago, I (Loran) started an organization, The Spillway, around supporting White people to work through Perpetrator Induced Traumatic Stress (PITS) and interGenerational trauma. I offer the services within The Spillway with the acknowledgment that healing work is merely one me...
What does it mean to be a White man in the US today without supremacy or shame?
Loran and Jenny sit down with Fred Jealous, founder of Breakthrough Men's Community, to talk about the intersection of gender and race as it applies to White men.
Questions include:
- What are we missing when we raise boys in the US?
- What’s so harmful about men being masculine and women being feminine? How does patriarchy hurt men?
- Who’s a better educator...
What does it mean to teach and talk about race and racism in our education systems? What does it mean to be White in academia?
Here we sit down with Dr. Amy Hillier, MSW, Associate Professor at The School of Social Policy and Practice at the University of Pennsylvania with the following outline:
What is CRT look like in your classrooms?
What are we getting right and wrong about CRT today?
What are White students saying in classrooms ab...
What is interGenerational trauma and how is it impacting White people?
In these shorter episodes, called "chute blocks," Loran and Jenny explore the ideas and concepts which inform the work of The Spillway.
What to expect in the episode:
- InterGenerational Trauma fundamentals
- Implications for our work in the present-day
- How working with our interGenerational trauma will change our future
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Welcome to our podcast. We’re s...
Alternative title: Cancel Culture and White Women & Evangeline Weiss
What does it mean to be a White woman in the US today without supremacy or shame?
What does it mean to hold cancel culture as White supremacist and shame culture?
Loran and Jenny sit down with Evangeline Weiss, founder of Beyond Conflict & co-founder of We Are Finding Freedom to talk about how cancel culture replicates White supremacy culture and the inters...
What does it mean to work to be White while working to end White supremacy and shame cultures?
Loran and Jenny sit down with Lynn Burnett (Founder, CrossCulturalSolidarity.com and The White AntiRacist Ancestry Project), Jared Karol (Founder, JaredKarol.com and author “A White Guy Confronting Racism”), and Jill Nagle (Founder, Evolutionary Workplace and acclaimed author) to talk about working with other White people in conversations ...
What is Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress (PITS)?
Moral Injury?
How are White people negatively impacted by racism, too?
In these shorter episodes, called “chute blocks,” Loran and Jenny explore the ideas and concepts which inform the work of The Spillway.
Mentioned in this episode:
The Spillway Community Guidelines
1. Engage sequentially. The show is a serial not episodic. We do this so we can build relation and find common groun...
Why is healing White men critical within racial equity work? What can prevention and harm reduction look like in US culture?
Loran sits down with Ben Jealous (President, People for the American Way and former President and CEO of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People [NAACP]), Pablo Cerdera (Founding Associate Director, Restorative Practices at Penn), and Fred Jealous (Founder, Breakthrough for Men) for a co...
How should White people respond/act/feel/think after another White nationalist massacre?
In this special episode Jenny and Loran hold space for each other and other White people in a way that honors the paradox of being White in the US. We’ll reconvene with our regularly scheduled focus group next week.
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In the episode Loran references the Ashtin Berry Instagram post which may be found here.
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Welcome to our podcast...
What does it mean for White men to define their unfiltered experience, living in the US in the '20s?
Loran and Jenny host a focus group with four White men who share their experiences of race and racism in the US today. When was the last time you heard a White man talk about what it means to be a White man without supremacy or shame?
Are any stereotypes or tropes outdated?
What are we getting right?
What are we getting wrong?
In this ...
As this is the conclusion of the focus group, out of respect to the participants and the overall process, please make sure to listen to part one before downloading this episode
What does it mean for White men to define their unfiltered experience, living in the US in the '20s?
Loran and Jenny host a focus group with four White men who share their experiences of race and racism in the US today. When was the last time you heard a White...
What does it mean to be White and LGBTQIA+?
Here we sit down with Trystan Reese (seriously, just Google him) to talk about what it means to hold the identities of White and LGBTQIA+ in the US today.
Some questions include:
- What does it mean to be a person who is both White and Queer? A person who is White and trans?
- Is there a difference between a White Queer person and a Queer White person?
- What patterns are you seeing within Wh...
What has season one taught us about what it means to be a White person in the US today without supremacy or shame?
After 9 weeks, 28 hours of recording, and 12 hours of published material Jenny and Loran identify the key findings of season one.
In the conclusion of our first attempt at a community assessment of White people and Whiteness, Loran and Jenny sit down to discuss the incredibly thoughtful interviews, moments, and themes...
What does it mean to continue this work after season one is completed?
Jenny shares some thoughts, feelings, and actions around our individual, collective and interrelated work.
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Welcome to our podcast. We’re so glad you’re here refocusing on Whiteness without supremacy or shame. Listen. Like. Follow.
Instagram: @the.spillway | Facebook: @WithoutSupremacyorShame
For a transcript of this episode and more, please visit our w...
In this episode, Loran Grishow-Schade reads their groundbreaking paper, "Preventing White Supremacy: An Applied Conceptualization for the Helping Professions," published by Discover Global Society.
This episode explores how social workers, educators, and helping professionals can prevent White supremacy from taking root, rather than merely dismantling oppressive systems after they are built. Drawing from Critical Race Theory (CRT) a...
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