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April 17, 2025 55 mins

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Have you ever wondered why chaos seems to erupt the moment you step away from your responsibilities? The answer might lie deeper than you think. 

During this revealing conversation, I explore with Dr. Jenni how we unknowingly create codependent environments in our work and personal lives. After returning from a relaxing cruise to find disorder waiting for us, we recognized a pattern worth examining: the belief that "if we're not overseeing the ship, everything goes awry."

This episode takes you on a journey through the psychology of needing to be needed. I vulnerably share my struggle with deriving self-worth from being the problem-solver, the hero who swoops in when others can't handle situations. We uncover how common beliefs like "if you want something done right, do it yourself" actually program our reality to reinforce these patterns.

The most fascinating insight emerges when we discuss what we call the "Patrick Swayze Technique" – the ability to step back and allow others to solve problems their way, even if it means watching them struggle through the process. This approach, inspired by a scene from Roadhouse, challenges the superhero syndrome many of us suffer from.

Perhaps most eye-opening is our discussion about how gratitude can become twisted with ego, creating a cycle where we become "thankful" that people need our help rather than grateful for what we have. This subtle distinction reveals how even our positive emotions can feed unhealthy patterns.

Ready to break free from exhausting codependent cycles? Listen now, and join us at www.themerccenters.org to learn how we can help you identify and transform similar patterns in your life.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Good morning Dr Jeannie.
Good morning Dr Jenny.

(00:27):
Good morning, we're back in thestudio today.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
We're in the studio.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
You're still wishing I was back on the boat.
Right, I know it was a goodtrip.
I loved it.
I had a good time.
Y'all need to check it out.
The Margaritaville at sea.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, it's a really good cruise line if you're
wanting.
I feel like it's for those thatare seeking just a really
relaxed environment.
Yeah, don't want to have towear their formal wear to get in
anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Don't want to have to like dress up, just really are
looking for a relaxedenvironment.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Because that's what I mean.
That's what I was looking forwas just a place to just go and
veg out.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
It seemed to be the majority was a little younger
too.
It wasn't like a real oldercrowd, it seemed.
The majority were like I don'tknow, 40s, 50s, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I didn't pay attention to anybody, I went
there just to chillax, chillax.
I can tell you that fromprevious cruises that crowd was
a little older.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh it was.
I've never been on one beforeolder.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Oh it was, I've never been on one before, but then,
um, like, if you go on carnival,there's a lot more younger
party animal type atmosphere ohand a lot of the the other
cruise lines will have like aformal wear required at certain
restaurants, yeah, or they'llhave like a themed dinner where
you have to dress a certainstyle to get in as part of their

(02:11):
entertainment or activity orwhatever.
This one was more just JimmyBuffett style, really Like
relaxed.
People, just really kind ofpeople just really kind of um,
you could go anywhere literallyin your t-shirt and shorts.

(02:32):
Yeah, except for that onerestaurant where you had to,
where you had to have sleeves itdoes sleeves and a collar and a
collar.
Yeah, but it still could havebeen.
I mean, you put on like a polotype shirt one night, and then
one night you put on like alittle hawaiian colored shirt
with your shorts and had noproblem.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
So yep, and it was really good food too.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
It was, it was phenomenal yeah, what I can say
from being on previous cruisesis sometimes the buffet that
comes with the meal is iffy,yeah, iffy, and what I noticed
with this one was the buffetthat comes with the cruise.
The food on it, 90% of the time, had a very pleasant taste and

(03:15):
flavorful yeah, I agree it wasgood food, but anyway.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
So we're back in here .
We're back and relaxing,chillaxing.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, not relaxing, Not relaxing.
Back to the grind.
The grind for sure.
We came back to a little bit ofa Craziness.
Clean up a little craziness.
Crazy, crazy, crazy so we'reworking on that in our reality
of being able to go away, be onvacation and come back and have

(03:45):
fine things the way that we leftthem not necessarily having to
come back into total chaos orhaving to clean up a mess
because we weren't here.
That's a little bit of a pattern, I think.
We run, yeah, and that we'reworking on ourselves is, um, it
feels like if we're not here todo it ourselves, it gets a

(04:11):
little chaotic or it's not donecorrectly is kind of what we're
running.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
That's kind of funny that you're talking about this,
because that was my topic thismorning.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, so I think we're kind of working on letting
go of it being that way, beingable to leave for an extended
period of time, knowing thateverything will run smoothly,
and coming back to not a hotmess.
Yeah, because we create our ownreality Somewhere in our
beliefs.

(04:41):
We have it programmed in therethat if we're not here
overseeing the ship, so to speak, everything goes awry.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, so that's kind of the topic that I wanted to
talk about this morning is arewe creating a codependent
environment?
And do we do it and don'trealize that we're doing it, and
do we do it and?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
don't realize that we're doing it.
I mean maybe, because I mean,let's talk about what is
codependency for both parties.
The person that's creating theenvironment, the overdoer, is
doing it because that's the bestway they can find their
self-worth is by overdoing, andit brings you at some point to a

(05:30):
state of burnout and exhaustion.
Yeah, I agree.
And in the perspective of thereceiver, is it really
beneficial for them?

Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's not really.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Because we have.
It can be and it can't be.
That's my opinion.
You have to kind of judge thesituation Because if the
receiver of the codependentrelationship is needing to heal
from some trauma, drama, drama,and you're there for them being

(06:03):
and doing for a short period oftime so they can work themselves
through whatever they justexperienced, giving them the
opportunity to uh kind of redothe file of that trauma, yeah,
for example, if you just wentthrough an experience of I can't
trust anybody, I can't dependon anybody and they need to

(06:26):
reprogram that file of peopleare trustworthy and I can depend
on them so that they canreprogram that, then it is nice
to have someone come along inyour path who's willing to be
temporarily the giver of acodependent relationship, so
that you can see that andreprogram the frequency that

(06:46):
there are people willing to bein service.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Just to kind of help reprogram.
But over time it can bringabout and create situations
where the person who receivesthe codependent action can
become over dependent uponfinding the feel good place

(07:14):
outside of them and in theperson giving the actions of
codependence right.
So it's good to have it on atemporary basis, just to kind of
get people up and going again,but then knowing when to kind of
step away.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, you know that's kind of to clarify.
What we're talking about islike do you ever in your home,
when you try to take a vacationor you try to go to work and
leave your kids with somebody,does it become chaotic?
You know your environment.
Then you come back to a chaoticenvironment because you haven't
given the either A the tools ofthe people that are there or B

(07:57):
are you creating an energeticenvironment that makes you have
this feeling of I am neededthere?

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, and one of the popular adages that runs around
in the collective is when thecat's away, the mice will play.
Yeah, you know, that describesthat and if you're holding on to
a belief that's similar to that, then every time you try to go
away be a short period of timeor a long period of time and
that's the belief that you'recarrying, then you will come

(08:25):
back to chaos, disruption justtotally agree yeah, deceivable
yeah, you know, and that's wherethat's where it happens a lot
it

Speaker 1 (08:34):
happens a lot with home, when you're at home, when
you have kids, yeah, and in yourwork environment.
That's where a lot of peoplecreate those two codependent
environments.
Like I'm guilty of it, I do it,um, you know, but I think I'd
probably do it a lot less thanI've seen people in the past do
it.
And because I'm kind ofidentified it and we actually

(08:56):
like to empower people to dowhat we do and know what we know
, and and I'm working on on thatbecause it's about a value
system.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Why do you feel like you're?
Can I ask some questions?
Sure, Can I put you in the hotseat for a second?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
So in your thought process, why do you feel like
you have to work on it?
What do you think that you'redoing that is not not beneficial
.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
I created an environment that where people
aren't as comfortable unless I'maround.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
I see.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
And and, and I'm trying not to create that
environment and working onfiguring out the beliefs behind
it.
And why?
Because that's where a lot ofpeople like me me we create
value within ourselves and inour employment by creating an
environment where people dependupon me I see and and I want

(09:58):
them to be solo.
but I have this inner thing towhere I create an environment
where people that you know oh,let me, let me find out from
James, let me you know oh, mygosh, I'm glad you're back.
It's, it was so much betterwhen you're here.
And then you know, you have theother people out there that,
like for me it's about being thebest at my job.

(10:19):
But in this entanglement is theunderlying energy of I'm only
the best in my job when I'm incharge and I'm in control.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Or when somebody needs you.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Or when somebody needs me.
And I don't want that.
I don't want that kind ofenergy.
What I want is, oh my God, he'sreally good at his job and he
gives everybody the empowermentto do what they want to do.
And that's where I'm workingtowards and figuring out what
belief is there, because whatmakes it resonate with me more
is I see other people colleaguesor whatever that create their
value.

(10:52):
Like you know, like that's howI create my value in my job is
by creating this dependentenvironment and which is part of
the value of my job.
And then I see other peoplethat create value in their job
by not doing their job andtrying to be that detective.
So I'm curious how do you see me?

Speaker 2 (11:13):
What is your perspective of me in that
concept?
Just out of curiosity.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
I think you're good at your job.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
No, I don't mean good at my job, I mean creating
codependency by making peopledependent upon me versus I think
it's just the opposite.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I think you completely pendulum off of me
you don't want anybody to bedependent upon you, and that's
what I think that's how I viewyou is you don't want anybody to
be dependent upon you.
You, you want to make it towhere you don't even have to be
there, and that's, and I and wekind of balance each other out a
little bit on that and I'mtrying to find that middle
ground of you know being happy.

(11:53):
But going back to the othertopic was is what makes it
identify more with me is when Isee people that don't do their
job and they don't don't dotheir assigned duties but they
create a worth with theirseniors, senior senior bosses or
whatever, by telling on othersor doing doing things that

(12:17):
aren't morally and ethically,ethically correct.
You know, so to speak, the yesman as the as you hear it in the
business world, and I'mdefinitely not going on that
side of the world, but I knowthat I want to be more on your
side of the world by creating anenvironment to where people can
have the freedom to makechoices, and I educate them on

(12:40):
how we like things to operate,because we are in charge, and
but I want them to be able tothink outside the box and
improve upon those thingswithout screwing things up,
because, historically, when Ihave given people the control to
make changes and do things theydon't do quite so well, and so

(13:02):
I've created an environment towhere I don't, either either a I
am not giving them theinformation they need, or B
we're, we're bringing people inthat can't handle that
information.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
And then, but I mean, I know I'm creating it
energetically and I'm trying tolocate that because I don't want
that environment to where wecome home to chaos or we, you
know, we come in from our daysoff and it's been, oh, you know,
a weird weekend or whatever.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
And why did you sit down over there?
And you?
I seen you win some minute agowhen I said something.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
I don't know what I said but I don't know, oh, I
don't know what I said.
I don't know, oh, I mean,there's lots to unpack there for
you, I agree.
But I don't always want to putyou in the hot seat.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Well, I'm not saying me, I'm talking about for
everybody out there, no, I'msaying you Give generalizations.
I don't want to be too much inthe hot seat today.
I'm trying to have a goodwhimsical day because I've been
daydreaming all morning.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
That's what I said.
I don't want to put you in thehot seat.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
But we can do generalized things that tell
people that we're like me.
I'm trying to identify where Istarted creating that
environment.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, I understand doing generalization, but I feel
like it if we have a poignantexample that we can walk people
through the steps so they cankind of see how what we do works
is beneficial.
And it's just you and me, andyou brought up a topic that

(14:31):
you're working on, yeah, and soit just would be a good
opportunity to kind of walkpeople through how to find that
underlying piece.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, well, because it started back a long time ago.
This is what I've discovered isI used to be that guy that
didn't want to be in thespotlight.
I just wanted to be good atwhat I'm doing, but not in the
spotlight.
And you know, then as I getolder and I move into leadership
roles and those kind of things,at some point in my life I got
to where I liked being in thespotlight.

(15:05):
But in the process of that Icreated an environment to where
things don't operate the waythey should unless I'm around,
or it's just my opinion of it.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
And that's where I'm working at.
So crickets.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
So I'm just trying to decide what do you want?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
I just want to talk about this topic.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Okay, it doesn't matter to me.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, so I mean, because everybody does it,
because like listen, do youremember our waitress at the
restaurant we go to all the time?
She said, yeah, I took threedays off and my whole world fell
apart, and so people out therecreate this world.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Of course I mean that's why there's those
different little sayings oradages out there.
I you know, when the cat's away, the mice will play.
If I want it done right, I gotto do it myself.
If I want it done right, I gotto do it myself.
Those are two very, very bigbeliefs that people carry that
create those kinds ofenvironments.

(16:06):
Right and and I, I can share foryou with what I, what I do not
to say that I'm perfect by anymeans or that I do it correctly,
but what I do works for me.
And it's not that I don't wantanybody to be dependent upon me.
I want to give people theeducation and the tool.

(16:29):
I want them to go out andutilize it, practice it whatever
it is, whatever the topic is,utilize it.
Practice it whatever it is,whatever the topic is, evaluate
how it worked for them.
Where we need to change up andrevisit the process, tweak the

(16:52):
process, send them back out totest it again and evaluate, come
back for more information.
So it's like a here I'm givingyou the information, i'm'm
giving you the tools.
Now go out and try it.
Come back and tell me how itwent and what you need now yeah
not, I'm not going and doing itfor them.
I'm I'm giving them the toolsand the information so they can

(17:16):
go, do it for themselves and seeokay, did I like that?
Did I not come back?
And I'm kind of like a soundingboard and that's how I want it
to be.
So what that does for me is isI know that when they go out to
try this shoe on, so to speak,or try this on for themselves,

(17:39):
there may very well be bumps inthe road.
They may not necessarily do itexactly the way that I taught
them.
They may figure out their ownway to do it with little pieces
and parts of what I taught them,but it still gets the same goal
done.
And so I am a little moremalleable in giving them space

(18:02):
to go out and fuck it up,basically, and come back and
let's reevaluate.
And so my perspective on oh myGod, when I let somebody go and
try their way, it creates chaos,and so I would rather just do
it myself.
I don't live that way.
Yeah, I live almost like havinga child.

(18:23):
You teach a child something andthey're not going to do it
exactly like you because they'rethree and you're 33.
So you give them the space totry it and practice it and get
better, even if they mess it up.
Yeah, a very good example of ofus doing that is when you have

(18:46):
that three-year-old who wants tohelp bake a cake or make the
pancakes.
You give them the batter tostir and they're kind of sloppy
stirs and so the stuff goeseverywhere, but but you don't
get upset with them it's cute atthat age and but you give them
the space to learn how to stirthe bowl and you don't get

(19:11):
incredibly bothered about thefact that they make a mess in
learning to do that.
And so you carry that conceptwith you all the way through
your journey.
When you have an officeassistant, for example, and
you're teaching them how to do atask, and then you release them
, so to speak, and say okay, nowgo forth and test it out to

(19:34):
where it fits you.
You know that sometimes theingredients are going to fall
out of the bowl and there's nosense in crying over spilt milk.
You just clean it up and youeither give them more practice
time to become more efficient atit or you reevaluate and see if
they need additional tools oreducation to help them get

(19:56):
closer to what it is the two ofyou are wanting to accomplish,
rather than having this strict,staunch thing that, when I'm
away, things have to look thisway in order for me to continue
to feel good within it.
It's got to look this way, thisway.
So taking yourself out of thatspace of a very sharp edged box

(20:24):
of how it has to look, givingyourself kind of that freedom
that it's okay.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's okay if they go out and they do and they don't
quite do it the way you want to.
It's changing the perspectivemore than anything.
You know the my part of myfrustrations of in the within
this topic is when you feel likeyou've really give somebody
good quality knowledge and yougo over this knowledge multiple

(20:53):
times and you tell themparameters and expectations
without direct orders on do itthis way, this way and this way.
But this is the result.
This is how I do it, I'll teachyou how to do it and this is
the expectation of success.
However, you get there frompoint a to point b is up to you,
but then they like can't evenget off point a and and they

(21:17):
it's like the drive is not thereto be to get to that successful
point, some to sometimes, andsometimes you have those out
there that completely convinceyou that oh yeah, I got this,
I'm good, and they may have asuccess.
But then they fall back and it'slike they like you can't.

(21:38):
You know they'll adage you saidit right.
If you want it done right, youdo it yourself.
That's one of the attitudes.
But also there was something Ilearned a long time ago that you
can never pay somebody enoughmoney to care as much as you do,
and that's one of the ones thatI'm you know.
Those are three of the topicsthat I'm talking about, because
I really make an attempt to notcreate dependency, but yet it

(22:01):
just kind of naturally happens.
And so what am I missing?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Well, I mean you want me to answer that question
directly for you for thisspecific example.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well so if you have entangled in your belief system
that your value and yourself-worth comes from being
having people dependent upon you, and it's all tangled up in
that, then you're going to kindof keep creating that reality
that people need you in order tosurvive, in order to get

(22:39):
through the day.
Your presence must be around.
You're going to create thatbecause it gives you a feel-good
feeling.
If we go back to the feelingguidance, how does it make you
feel you feel good when somebodyneeds you?
You feel good whenever you cango fix something for somebody.
It makes you feel good.

(23:00):
And so when we talk aboutfinding that next feel-good
place and that next feel-goodplace that's what makes you feel
good Then you're going to keepcreating that scenario that
makes it to where your presenceis required in order for you to
feel good by doing things forpeople.

(23:24):
And so you're physically goingto keep putting yourself in a
situation and creating a realitywhere you physically are going
around doing things for peopleso that you can feel good.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, that's one of the things.
That's another parameter withinthat.
I think that's a littledifferent topic than what I do,
because I identify the fact thatI try to give the dependent
knowledge out and I try to allowthose people to be successful.
But then there's that part ofme that that makes me feel good
when I get to help people, andso that balance is one thing I'm

(24:00):
working on as well.
Finding that balance to whereit's because it makes me feel
good to help people.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Of course it does it, it it makes.
Everybody has that in them.
The other part that's entangledin that, for you specifically,
is the definition of theexpectation of the outcome.
Some of that's entangled inthere as well.

(24:25):
When you give somebodyknowledge, tools and education
or whatever to go and dosomething, you have a little bit
of energy of this expectationthat it must look this certain
way and like I'm putting thesubconscious parameter right.
Yeah like it must, like the endgoal and the way that the

(24:49):
outcome is must be this or I'vedone something wrong, or I've
taught them wrong, or they'renot getting the concept.
If it doesn't look thisparticular way, the way it would
look if I had done it myself,and so changing that expectation
or that parameter, that, eventhough it looks a little bit

(25:12):
different, did it accomplish thesame outcome that everybody was
wanting.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
So you have a little bit of tweaking to do.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, that's one of the things that I do.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
recognize that you have you know, if you're
expecting it to look exactly theway you would do it, you'll
never accomplish that, becauseyou're right, you can't teach
someone to do it exactly the wayyou would do it.
They're always going to puttheir unique touch on things,
because we're all different andwe all are viewing this reality

(25:47):
through a different set of eyes,so to speak.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
You know, I totally agree with you on that.
I am in that realm that you,that you were discussing, 100%
agree, and I am.
That's one of the ones I'mlooking at to adjust and trying
to figure out why.
You know, and another portionthat just popped in my head that
I was looking at yesterday wasmy feeling of gratitude, you
know, because gratitude is verymuch a in my belief system.

(26:17):
Gratitude is very much a in mybelief system, a cycle of my
positive and optimistic mindsetExplain more so, if I am
grateful for what I do, for theexplanation, if I'm grateful for
having what I have and beingable to do what I do and having
this awesome life with my wifeand all this stuff, the

(26:37):
gratitude behind that createsthis environment of positivity
and optimism.
It helps create thatenvironment.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
For you.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
For me and most of the time when you read anything,
when you go to any seminars oranything about positive mindset,
they talk about gratitude.
Go to any seminars or anythingabout positive mindset, they
talk about gratitude.
Um, but I've I know, knew thatyears ago, long before I went to
any seminars about it, becauseI got it when I was a young age
and being thankful for andhaving gratitude for my higher
self and creating the world thatI have now.

(27:10):
The entanglement that anotherpart of the entanglement is that
is doing that in the reverseexplain more so, instead of
being grateful for what's what'sin my environment, in my world,
I become grateful that I'mneeded.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Oh, and so I have got that in reverse if you all had,
if we were videoed right nowlive, he would have seen me make
a very ugly face and and I'mafter talking to two, three
people yesterday and they getcaught in that same world.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
It's very easy to get caught up.
As I am so thankful that I gotto help you, help you today, I
am so thankful that I get toprovide this for you today, I am
so thankful that I blah, blah,blah, you know you kind of see
it it.
It's very easy for yoursubconscious mind to twist that
into value.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Right, and you understand why.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Though, yeah, well, kind of, I'm working on that.
Okay, but if you have, pleaseelaborate.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
I can elaborate if you would like.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Please do.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcometo the stage, Dr Jenny.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
So okay, so your belief system, the mechanism is
designed to always make itselftrue.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Agreed.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
No matter whether you view it as a healthy belief or
a belief you'd like to change.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
I'd probably say that 10 times a day to people it
will always make itself true.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
I probably say that 10 times a day to people.
It will always make itself true.
And so, with just that premise,repeat the question.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
I didn't have a question.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I'm sorry, I got knocked off the line.
Repeat the statement.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
So turning my gratitude into value.
You know, when I becomethankful for people, allowing me
to help them instead of beingallowing the ego to stay out of
the way and that reversing on me, you get what I'm saying.
So I create a value in people.

(29:10):
There's a value that's beencreated within me when I am able
and thankful for doing thingsfor others.
Wow, you went completelyoffline.
I did what happened there, Idon't know.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Somebody cut the phone cord.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
What's that about?
I'm not sure.
Anyway, so when I get in theworld like this happened
yesterday I had a customer thatsaid oh my God, I am so glad you
are here, because it just isnot the same when you're not
here I was like, oh well, that'snot the way I planned that to

(29:45):
be.
And?
And when I got done cause I wasfixing something for her and
when I was walking back out ofthe room, she said see, this
only gets done when you're here,and so, and that does that
kicks you in the ego.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Why?
What do you mean?
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (30:03):
it kicks you, it makes you feel good when
somebody says makes you orthey're grateful of you.
Oh yeah.
And you know, do you kind ofsee the yo-yo effect in?

Speaker 2 (30:11):
that, and so what's basically happening is whenever
you have a belief that says Ifeel really good, whenever I am
fixing, I'm being someone's hero.
Yes, I'm fixing somethingphysically, making a component
work right, or I'm solving thepuzzle for this person by

(30:34):
putting plans in place for them.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
I'm doing doing, doing, doing, doing for them.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
That makes me feel good.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yes, and it feeds your ego and it confuses your
subconscious mind on ego andgratitude.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Right.
But the confusion is becausethat belief that you must have
that in order to feel good, it'sjust making itself true in any
way, form or fashion, especiallywhen you get to a point where
you're like.
I guess what I'm asking is whatdo you want it to look like?

Speaker 1 (31:13):
I want to create an environment where it's not
codependency.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
So use more.
Codependency is a very generalterm.
Use more like described to meLike what do you want?
Do you want to stop having toalways be the one to go do the
task?
Is that where you're trying toget?

Speaker 1 (31:30):
I'm not necessarily.
I do enjoy doing things andhelping others.
Okay, it would be more the factof people having the
empowerment to do it forthemselves when I've taught them
, though that would be a betterscenario for me.
Right, I don't mind going andhelping you the first time, but

(31:50):
if I have to go back and redothe same thing so you can learn
it, or because you couldn'tremember it, or whatever, that
is, that's where the gratitudegets confused, for me, and so
what happens?

Speaker 2 (32:01):
It gets turned into what?

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Oh, I'm glad you did it and thank you for teaching me
again.
No, for you it gets turned intowhat it gets turned into ego.
It makes you feel good.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
What does it get?
Use your emotional words howdoes it make you feel when you
have to go back and do it again?
It makes you feel happy.
Well, you're missing what I'masking.
You do it the first time and itmakes you feel good and you
enjoy helping and being inservice.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
But then when you go back and you have to do the
exact same thing over again,what is the feeling that comes
from that?
That's not gratitude.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Because it always seems to happen in an opportune
time.
So we would say it would causea frustration.
Because I've given you thisknowledge the first time and let
you and release you to do itand in that kind of scenario.
But when you call me back forthe exact same thing, that
creates frustration.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Okay, and so what you're wanting to create is you
want to help, but combined,giving them the knowledge and
information, so that then theywill take that information and
be independent doers themselves.
Yeah, and that's not just withour customers, that's with our

(33:23):
coworkers, everything else, no,I get it.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
But what happens more than anything is when I walk
away from them the first timewith being happy because, hey, I
appreciate you, and now I'vetaught them how to do it, or
whatever that is, and I amoptimistic and I have an
expectation that they're goingto do it next time okay.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
And then when I stop right there, right, because the
that, that's where you'regetting tangled up in the
expectation you have anexpectation that they're going
to take this information andthat they're going to do it
themselves next time, and thenyou don't have to revisit this
topic and then that createsfrustration in you and takes you

(34:01):
from the feel good gratitude Iam glad I could help place into
the frustration place okay, Iagree so if if you have a belief
that says I am a doer and itmakes me feel really good to go
and do things for people, butyou don't clarify what that doer

(34:23):
definition is, then theuniverse, by design of the
mechanism to make you have afeel-good place, is always going
to put you in a situation whereyou're a doer and it doesn't
matter.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
You didn't say I want to be a doer only the first
time and then I want that personto do on their own, like
precision of kind of redefiningwhat that looks like.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Because right now you're running a program, you're
running a couple of them.
Because right now you'rerunning a program, you're
running a couple of them andthey take turns being the boss.
Yeah, I agree, and so you'vegot to clarify kind of what that
definition is.
I want to do it the first timefor you, but I want you to take
the information and learn to beindependent and do it for

(35:18):
yourself.
Yes, take, take this knowledgeand go forth, but you also have
to get to a place where you'reokay with that.
Right, that's where, that'swhere I'm at, and there's a part
of you that is not okay withthat.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
I agree I'm working.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
That's one of the ones, that one of the things
that dinged me and that I'vebeen looking at that's one of
the things that dinged me andthat I've been looking at,
because you think you have thatbelief that if people don't need
you to do action things forthem, then you are not valuable
and you are not worthy.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
And so when your value is pretty percentage-wise,
pretty weighted on that side ofthings, then you'll do the
physical action tasks and you'llcreate situations where it may
be a repeated task.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, Interesting, and so so I would say that the
number one thing that that Iwould tell the listeners to do
is holy cow, this podcast isflying by.
Um is I?
What I'm gonna do today is I'midentifying and removing the
expectations of not having toretouch subjects, because there

(36:33):
are people that learn slower,because that creates a
frustration for me, and then I'mlike ah, I just got to start
over.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
But that in and of itself is a belief.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
I agree, I agree.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
You don't have to have a belief that people learn
slower, and it's really not evenyour business how fast they
learn.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
You put the information out there, I agreed.
So I think where I kind of wasgoing with this was giving the
listeners insight on how we workthrough a topic and how we dig
around in it and how we get eachother to kind of really dig
down and see the differentlayers, entanglements in a

(37:12):
belief, until they pop up andfeel, oh yeah, that was the
zinger.
Let me spend the day looking atthat, or that's the zinger.
It wasn't necessarily the topicitself.
You got to go get the zinger.
Let me, I'll spend the daylooking at that, or that's the
zinger.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
It wasn't necessarily the topic itself.
You got to go get your zingers.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
It was how to work through that when you're
especially when you're workingwith your partner or another
person.
I didn't let you continue onthat path because you weren't
seeing it yet.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah.
I kept digging and kind of nope,nope, come back over here, nope
, come back over here because Iactually identified this on the
cruise, because I would, when wewere, I think, where we?
I don't know where you were,but I was walking through the
buffet area and I heard a servertalking to one of the floor
supervisors.
Yeah, and he said man, I haveto help this woman every single

(38:00):
time she comes in to eat becauseshe, just, like, she just
doesn't remember whereeverything is.
And the supervisor and thefloor supervisor said well,
that's your job, isn't it?
And they kind of bring my billa little bit because I, in this
world that we live in, I createmy own job, I create my own
world, my own job, I create myown world and my own
responsibilities.

(38:20):
And so that's where I've beenlooking at it, that's why it
kind of it went to a place ofhuh, you know that defined
moment where I should not becreating a necessity of need for
me.
I should be creating a world ofnecessity for them to lead their

(38:44):
own journey with the knowledgethat I'm doing and something I'm
kind of lost for the wordsright now because I'm still
trying to get clarity Iunderstand, but I what I would
encourage you to do is it's nota should or shouldn't, it's a.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
I was doing it this way.
Now I'm ready for a change,because I don't necessarily like
it this way now, or I want itto be different, and it's not
about them, it's about you andwhat you want it to look like.
Like if you still enjoy doingthe task itself once twice.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Three times a lady.
Oh sorry.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
But you want it to be a little bit different.
That's what I would focus on.
You can't make anybody doanything.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Right, I agree.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
All you can do is provide information tools and
then let them figure out whatthey're going to do with it.
So as long as you're goingthrough your reality trying to
do things to get somebody to dowith it, so as long as you're
going through your realitytrying to do things to get
somebody to do something, that'sa never-ending battle of trying
to get the horse to drink whenyou take them to water.

(39:50):
Yeah, I.
I can see that and so I I wouldcome away from that being my
objective and your objectivebeing redesigning your reality
to look like what you want it tolook like now.
Yes, because the way you had itdesigned before it worked for
you and you enjoyed it and itgave you gratitude and it was an

(40:13):
enjoyable, pleasurable thing.
But now what you've realized isthat there's parts of that that
are bringing about a differentfrequency, which is called
frustration, and that just meansthat you're a new person.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
You know, it's really not frustration, it's more of I
don't even know how to word it,it's like dang again.
You know, it's not really notthat it frustrates me, it's more
disappointment, I think.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Actually no, it's aggravation you think so?
Yeah, they're all very close infrequency, but it doesn't
matter really what, what youcall it, what what matters is
that you're identifying thatit's a frequency that you don't
like to live at.
Yeah, I agree, it's not afrequency of feel good.
Okay, and that's.
Don't get tangled up in needingto find the word of it.

(41:03):
Realize that you haveidentified a frequency that you
no longer are comfortable orenjoyable living at.
Yes, and that is an indicatorthat you're ready for a
refinement.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Ascension.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Just a refinement of what you've created.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
You know you're ready to refine the design of your
reality and do somethingdifferent.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
It doesn't matter what it's called.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yeah, I mean, and that's really the key?
Well, not really key.
I'm going to quit saying that.
I keep saying that's the key,that's the key.
There's not really key.
I'm going to quit saying that.
I keep saying that's the key,that's the key.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
There's a reason you're saying that.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Is there.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
There is.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Okay.
So the highlighted part for methat really rings a bell is I
have to make it okay with myself.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Are you tired?

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Am I tired?
Yeah, no, why.
Why do you ask that?

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Because your eyes look sleepy.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Well, I didn't sleep too well last night.
I woke up like three times, butno, I'm good, okay.
Do I need to go take a nap?
Maybe?
Hey, I'm okay with that, but domy eyes look sleepy?
Really, yeah, I don't feelsleepy.
Huh, really, yeah, I don't feelsleepy.

(42:22):
So, you know, making it okay inmy mind to change that belief
is is where I'm at too yeah,there's something.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
There's some aspect of control in there wrapped up
in there with it yeah, well, itcomes well.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah, it's all wrapped up with value, how I
value myself and is.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
There is control in there.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Control the masses if I can yeah, seriously there is
I can control everything that'sgoing on and that that's where I
am.
That's one of the things that'sentangled in all this that I'm
trying to identify, and cut thecut the strings off gee willika
man yeah, that's a big one yeah,so that's a big one yeah.

(43:00):
That's a big one, Batman.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
You do realize that you have such a powerful ability
to control already that you cancreate a reality that makes you
feel like you have no control.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
That's how powerful.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
You know how to control things and have no
control.
That's how powerful.
You know how to control thingsand you can control.
It's just what are you tryingto control?

Speaker 1 (43:26):
And why am I trying to control it?
That's where I'm.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
And then why are you creating scenarios where you
feel like things are out ofcontrol, so that you can regain
control?
Yes, I agree, that's what I'mlooking at, but the rabbit hole
perspective is that we have somuch control and we are so
powerful that we have theability literally to create a

(43:52):
reality that makes us feel likewe are out of control even
momentarily or long term orwhatever, for the purpose of
growth.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, that's the rabbit hole topic.
You know, that reminds me ofthat movie, roadhouse.
When Patrick Swayze goes intothat, into what was the name of
that club, he was doingRoadhouse.
It was called Roadhouse and itwas like his first night or
something.
He's leaning against that poleand all hell breaks loose and he

(44:29):
just stood there and watched,like he's saying to himself yeah
, I created this and he'saccepting it.
I've created this world, yes,okay, so now what am I going to
do to fix it?
And that's what it reminds meof.
He's just leaning against thepole with his arms crossed and
he ducks a beer bottle, hittingthe pole, you know, and it's
like, yeah, I know, I createdthis.
Now I'm just gonna clean it up.
That's kind of where I am.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
So I'm being patrick swayze in roadhouse today yeah,
because it would be curious towatch it and see if it
self-resolves when you become,when you come to a place of
being completely acceptant of itand allowing it, does it
beautifully resolve without youhaving to do anything.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
You know, because I see things that happen like
Saturday, when we came back andthe crazy chaos that was going
on here and the people that Ithought I had trained and do
better were just so big-eyedwhen things hit the fan of
course they are, and you have toswoop in and be the hero right,
that's what I'm saying, that'swhat, really.
Another thing that rang my bellover the weekend that didn't

(45:34):
make you feel good no, itactually irritated me why,
because, first of all, itinterfered with our time we were
trying to eat a nice meal at myfavorite restaurant and, second
of all, I was disappointed inthe fact that this person that
we have taught to be a leader inthe community was frantic.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
But okay, so let's take that example for a second.
But okay, so, let's take thatexample for a second.
So what would you dodifferently, to change the
energy and the trajectory ofthat situation in that very
moment in time.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Utilizing the Patrick Swayze technique.
Well, exactly what I did.
I mean I did exactly what Iwould have done, I think, or I
did do what I think my beliefsystem reflects on as I went
back through the entire trainingprocess again, basically Like,
calm down, take a deep breath dothis, do that.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
But you went in and you began to fix things for that
person.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
I agree, because I had to get to a point of getting
this stopped before it createda ton of damage.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
But that's your viewpoint you have the
perspective that it was going tocreate a ton of damage, but
that's your viewpoint.
You have the perspective thatit was going to create a ton of
damage if you didn't swoop inand do it for that person, and
so that's where the codependencyis.
You're defining that as not ahealthy situation that you no

(47:01):
longer want to be a part of, andso, in the so where did I
create the point of I know thishas been trained, because I
remember training itspecifically?
Okay.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Why was it not happening?

Speaker 2 (47:16):
And this individual has 30 plus years in a hotel.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
So he knows how to handle leaks.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
He knows how to handle fire suppression systems,
but are you allowing him to goin and utilize the knowledge
that?

Speaker 1 (47:31):
he has.
Are you saying that my controlis creating a place of fear for
them to make decisions?

Speaker 2 (47:36):
to make decisions.
Your control is creating aplace where you have to swoop in
and do the things in order foryou to feel good and say oh, yep
, see, look I.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
I'm the hero.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
I swooped in.
I'm the hero.
I fixed it all Spotlight on me.
I am the knight in shiningarmor.
I fixed it for everybody.
Look at me.
Look at me.
That's Superhero syndrome.
I am the knight in shiningarmor.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
I fixed it for everybody.
Look at me, look at me.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
That's Superhero syndrome, right?
Because he had you left himalone and had you said I am two
hours away, dude, I can't getthere, you're going to have to
figure something out.
He would have figured somethingout because he has the
experience.
You're just not letting himutilize the experience and
figure out the solution his way.

(48:24):
You jumped in, you went intoaction, you figured it out your
way, because you're kind ofliving in that realm of I want
the spotlight, I want to be thehero, because that makes me feel
good.
I want the bragging rights ofsee, you couldn't do it, I got

(48:44):
it done, I fixed it for you.
The reality is is if you justsit back and lean against the
wall and you made this persondig deep into their knowledge
base and stretch that part oftheir brain or that part of
their memory and dig into thatfile.
That's there, not only the fileyou created for teaching, but

(49:05):
the one he brought with him andgive him the space to spread his
wings and utilize what he has.
Frantic or not, he would havecome up with a solution he would
have, but you're creating asituation where he calls you in
a state of panic to come and fixit for him, because he is.

(49:28):
You've created a realitysurrounded by people who are
okay, letting you be the heroand letting you have the
spotlight of see.
I created this answer, thissolution, I fixed it.
Everybody, look at me.
Rather than creating asituation of okay, I know you
have the tools, karate, kid waxon wax off.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Now go forth and use your tools I'm gonna sit here
and trim my bonsai tape and I amnot gonna get involved.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
It's kind of like whenever I work with him in the
kitchen and he going to getinvolved.
It's kind of like whenever Iwork with him in the kitchen and
he wants to get involved in theserver process and I'm like
step back and get out of the wayand stop doing their job for
them.
Step back, get out of the wayand stop doing his job for him,
because it's kind of abifurcated thing.
You're creating it for your own.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
That means a Y in the road.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
For your own benefit.
But also you're teaching thisperson a hidden technique that
hey, if I act stupid and I actlike I don't know what I'm doing
, then I know this person willcome in and do my job for me and
I won't have to.
Interesting won't have tointeresting.

(50:44):
So then that person learns as ain inadvertent consequence from
that.
They learn that, hey, if I, if Ipretend like or act like I
don't know how to do this ordon't know what the solution is,
then I can get myself in asituation where I stand around
and hold the flashlight whilethis person goes into action and
actually does the work.
Fair enough, I created that, andso you have to make them go

(51:06):
into action and do it for them,even if and at first when you
start practicing that it'll beuncomfortable because you'll
want to jump in and just do itfor them, because they're not
doing it in a timely manner orthey're not doing it the way you
would do it.
Or you can foresee that if theydo it the way they're doing it,
they're not doing it in atimely manner or they're not
doing it the way you would do it, or you can foresee that if
they do it the way they're doingit, they're going to have this
problem and this problem.
But having them experiencethose problems sometimes is a

(51:31):
huge learning turn for them, andso you have to let them have
the bumps in the road, becauseit will bring them to those
epiphanal places, and thatsometimes is what people need.
They need the major chaos inorder for things to click in

(51:52):
their own brain.
Yep, I'm with you so sometimesyou need to Patrick Swayze it.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Okay then.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
If you truly don't want it that way anymore.
But if you want to continue tobe the superhero, then you got
to embrace the components thatyou've created or designed, and
that means you run aroundsometimes with your feet of fire
.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
And at the end of the day, these feet are on fire.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
You're exhausted because you've filled your plate
with a lot of nonsense thatpeople should be doing for
themselves, but you're notletting them.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
It's crazy how we create our world sometimes.
Anyway, I feel complete to you.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Hey guys, Thank you for listening to the Spiritual
Grand.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah, this was just an opportunity for you guys to
see how the process lookswhenever we really get into
digging around in something.
Somebody wants to change, andthis is what we do with the
clients that reach out to usthrough our website,
wwwthemarkcentersorg.
We have um appointmentsavailable and this is kind of

(53:05):
what it looks like.
We kind of just dig in andguide you through finding the
bump up against places foryourself.
We don't do it in a manner thatit's like you come in, you sit
down in the chair and we get inyour face with the spotlight and
a finger in your face saying,okay, this is this, this is this

(53:28):
, this is this.
You know, it's just a gentlekind of conversation.
Yeah, where we're, you know,guiding you through that in a
gentle manner.
It's very relaxed.
It's not ever a judgmentpointing fingers you're doing it
wrong.
It's just gently guiding youthrough how to find that for
yourself so that you can do iton your own.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Agreed.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
And that's what I was wanting to take.
It is just show them kind ofwhat a session looks like when
they come and utilize us as thevoice of their higher self,
which is really what's happening.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Thank you all for listening.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Like, follow, share and don't forget to ring that
bell.
Hey, don't forget to check usout on all of our social media.
It's at the Merck centers anddrop us a comment.
We'll talk to you.
We have no problem.
Problem, have an awesome daylove you.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
We'll see you next time.
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