April 8, 2025 • 48 mins
What does it mean to truly feel alive? In this illuminating conversation with author Pearl Howie, we dive into the transformative power of staying connected to our authentic selves—and helping our children do the same.
Pearl shares her concept of "active meditation," revealing how activities like skiing, hiking, and dancing can create a state of flow where we become fully present. Unlike traditional meditation, these embodied practices harness natural movement patterns that resonate deeply with both children and adults. "It doesn't matter what you're doing," Pearl explains, "when you're 100% present with what you're doing, it becomes a meditation."
We explore the delicate balance between protecting our children and allowing them the freedom to make mistakes. Pearl offers practical wisdom on empowering kids to take ownership of their responsibilities, even when it means facing natural consequences. This approach builds resilience and helps prevent the fear of success that plagues many adults who've been sheltered from failure.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we discuss neurodiversity and how different brains thrive in different environments. Pearl's experience with Zumba illustrates how structured, pattern-based activities can create spaces where neurodiverse individuals excel, challenging conventional notions about fitness and social engagement. "My brain is perfect," Pearl asserts, reminding us that our unique wiring enables our unique gifts.
Perhaps most powerfully, Pearl encourages treating our bodies as temples and speaking to ourselves with the same kindness we'd offer a dear friend. This practice of self-compassion becomes a model for our children, showing them what authentic self-acceptance looks like.
Ready to reconnect with your true self? Visit pearlhowie.com to explore her virtual retreat space "Roshanara" and discover workshops on finding your authentic success.
Connect with Pearl Howie:
*Website: https://pearlhowie.com/
*Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pearlescapes/?hl=en
*YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChxr3Q0L5cygvIsAcyaoR4A
*LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pearl-howie-42bb1b120/
Quiz time! Take my new Spiritual Parent Vibe quiz and meet your magical type:
https://www.tryinteract.com/share/quiz/683e320bf64af70015fae432
New! Conscious Family Travels Channel on YouTube with Carrie:
https://www.youtube.com/@consciousfamilytravels
Connect with Carrie:
*Website: https://hearttoheartlife.com/
*Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespiritualparent
*YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSpiritualParent
*Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/The-Spiritual-Parent/61554482625081
*Email: info@hearttoheartlife.com
**Please remember that the information shared on this podcast is educational in nature and does not constitute licensed mental health advice. If you need such advice, you should speak with a licensed professional about your unique situation. Thanks so much happy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carrie Lingenfelter (00:00):
So what active meditation looks like for
me is for skiing.
I do it when I'm skiing.
I don't wear headphones, I keepmy ears open so I can hear the
swoosh, swooshing, the wind inthe trees.
I can feel the movement and getmy body into the pattern of the
movement.
And so there's those meditativepieces.
And we do it when we're hikingtoo.
So teaching our kids theseideas of movement that can be
(00:25):
different than just the ballsports.
Pearl Howie (00:28):
Yeah, I think it sounds.
That sounds to me very muchlike being in flow, yes, or
being in flow.
So it's like, whatever you'redoing, just being connected and
it's great because you're inthat and you just let go of
everything and you're just being.
I think sometimes we would callit being mindfulness as well,
but just being present and beingand just being at one, and I
(00:52):
love I get that when I'm writing, yeah, and you're just not
thinking about anything else.
You're so in the moment and Ilike, oh, it's just wonderful,
it doesn't matter what you'redoing, like people get it from
knitting.
Carrie Lingenfelter (01:05):
Conscious parents.
It's Carrie here and I am herewith a little info about raising
our mindful kids.
I've got some tips and tricksabout breaking free of the box
and becoming who you are andteaching your kids how to do
that.
Along the way, join us, hithere and welcome back.
This is Carrie, your friendly,intuitive mama here, and I am so
(01:30):
excited I have a fabulous guestthat I have welcomed back to
the show.
We had her on our Thanksgivingepisode and she was so much fun
and had such amazing insights.
I have Pearl Howie here todayand I love that.
She has dedicated her careerand her time toward helping
people feel alive through heraccomplished books and programs
that she has, and thank you somuch, pearl, for coming back.
Thank you for having me.
Pearl Howie (01:50):
We had a lot of fun last time, so I'm really
looking forward to it.
Carrie Lingenfelter (01:53):
Yeah, it's so much fun to connect again and
already know somebody and havethem back.
I love that experience.
So I was so excited becausetoday we get to dive more into
your background and things thatyou bring to the table for
families, and you and I werespeaking a little bit earlier.
I love that you have this piecethat you've talked about with
(02:24):
the mission of helping kids tostay conscious into adulthood is
to help them stay connectedwith themselves, to help them
stay connected to their heartsinto adulthood.
Do you find any ideas about thecause of these fears of success
that you find with adults?
I think part of it, too, isallowing our kids to make the
(02:46):
mistakes now, at the young age,because the stakes are not as
high right when we're adults andwe're making the mistakes, the
stakes are a little bit higher.
So if we are helicopterparenting right now and we're
controlling their environment somuch to where they don't make a
mistake For instance, my sonhe's in third grade now in the
(03:11):
US, in Colorado, and I justallow him to do his own reading
log.
Sometimes it's lost, sometimesit's on the ground in the
mudroom, sometimes it's on thefloor in his bedroom, but he's
in charge of it and I'm lettinghim figure out how to organize
himself, how to plan out thatmonth of reading log info, and
(03:34):
that's his own thing, that he'sin charge of, right.
So if he makes a mistake and heloses it, then he has the
consequence of that for himself.
Then that's something that I'vedecided that he needs to start
learning about and being incharge of, because a lot of the
times it's buddy, you need topick up your socks.
Buddy, you left your rc truckon the front lawn.
(03:54):
There's a lot of pieces rightwhere I'm having to take care of
him, so I'm trying to teach hima little bit of that
independence and allowing him tomake those mistakes now.
So I think that's where I wasgoing with the mistakes.
Pearl Howie (04:05):
Oh, totally I think , do you know?
I think the thing is because westarted talking about like
things like wandering off andtalking to strangers and
stranger.
We've started this conversationat a very talking about quite
what we could call quite highrisk behavior.
Yeah, yeah, more higher.
So when we talk about thingslike that and it is really
challenging.
And then when you talk aboutthings like doing your homework-
yeah and letting kids maketheir own mistakes and figure it
(04:28):
out.
That's brilliant place for kidsto learn about consequences.
It's so great for people tolearn about consequences.
That's what it's all about,really, isn't it?
Having challenges, settinghomework, all those kind of
things what happens if I don'tdo my homework?
Then find out.
You're going to find out I'm.
(04:48):
My mum was so hands-off when itcame to homework.
She was very much look, that'sup to you, that's completely up
to you.
And, yeah, I was very awarethat that was completely up to
me and I think that for me, thatwas really useful because it
makes you very, it doesencourage you to be organized,
(05:13):
yeah, and not expect somebodyelse to keep telling you hey,
you need to do this, you need todo that, you need to do the
other yeah and but again it's.
Sometimes it's also I rememberhelping my nephew with his
homework because he got into areal model and as I was going
through it I was like this isincredibly complicated and
confusing the way that theschool were setting up the
(05:34):
assignments online and I waslike how do you keep this
straight?
You've got each week, everyother week, you have a different
lesson in the same slot andthey put the homework online
before they've done the lesson.
So it's saying you need to.
The homework's available to do,but and I was like but you and
he was doing it and I was like,wow, this is.
And he said, yeah, but Ihaven't done the lesson yet.
I said why are you doing thehomework?
(05:55):
So I'm just trying to get itdone.
I'm like, no, you need to dothe homework for the lessons
you've actually done becauseyou're making it harder on
yourself.
But honestly, at that point itwas like when I went into, I
thought you know what?
The school, or actually they'vegot a problem.
They've got a problem.
I think sometimes we do assumeit's the kids have got the
problem.
You're like, actually,sometimes it's so, not, it's
just, it's this problem.
(06:17):
And I think again it's likethat isn't it, that kids know
that they can come to you andsay, look, I don't understand
this.
And then if it was my mom,she'd be like, yeah, you've got
to figure it out.
She really, she literally besaying that and I wouldn't have
had somebody in my corner to goto then say, actually, the
school have made the mistake,not you.
Yeah, yeah, and unfortunatelythat it's really all this stuff.
(06:40):
As you say, it's all a learningcurve and sometimes the
consequences are huge if youdon't have that support all the
way through.
I remember my sister.
Actually, she failed one of herexams because they taught them
the wrong syllabus oh man fortwo years oh and then, yeah,
exactly, and then they onlyfound out they only found out
once the exam results came outthat they had actually been
studying.
They studied the wrong thing,and that's two years of so again
(07:04):
.
Sometimes it's we that's a hugeissue, but again it's trying to
.
Carrie Lingenfelter (07:10):
You would think at that age that you could
trust the school to provide agood learning yeah, it's to each
kid, right, it's independentand it sounds like those are
external factors, right, insteadof Instead of an internal
factor.
Pearl Howie (07:24):
Totally.
But I think sometimes that, ashard as it is and as bad as that
is, at the same time it's alsowe learn as we grow up that that
institutions make big mistakesand that they're not infallible
and that we cannot put a hundredpercent trust into any
institution.
Really, and sometimes that's animportant lesson that we all
(07:46):
need and our kids need, as theyget older to question authority
and to question what they'rebeing told.
It's so important.
So it's really hard becausewhen they're younger we're all
like, yes, listen to the teacherand trust the teacher and do
what the teacher tells you to do, and this kind of thing.
And as they get older it's hangon a second you have a right to
(08:12):
question your teachers.
Carrie Lingenfelter (08:13):
You have a right to do that opinion.
Yeah, yeah, and part of thatalso, I think, is teaching our
kids to feel empowered enough tohave that question.
Do you have any tips forstaying empowered or finding
empowerment as an adult or as achild staying empowered?
Do you have any thoughts onempowerment that?
Pearl Howie (08:27):
was one my husband and I were discussing this
morning was empowered.
I'm always talking aboutlistening and I think when you
listen to your kids and itdoesn't matter what they're
saying, when you listen to themand you find them interesting,
and I think when you reallylisten, you always find them
interesting.
It's when you're, it's whenyou're half listening, when
you're doing other things thatthat they you know, you think,
(08:48):
oh, they're talking about this.
And when they're four andthey're just telling you
everything, you start to tuneout.
And I think we we need to getgood at waking up that listening
.
And it's the same with olderpeople, it's the same with your
parents.
As you get older, they talk alot and then some in there
there's some really importantthings that they tell you that
you have to stay switched on tolisten to.
(09:09):
In amongst all of that there'ssomething really important that
they just tell you in amongst itall.
But I think when you have Isuppose one of the things is as
an auntie there's a thing whenyou're like, oh, you're always
saying to the kids oh, you're sointeresting, oh you're so
brilliant, oh you're sowonderful, and that is really
empowering for them because theydo.
They feel like somebody wantsto hear everything, somebody
(09:30):
wants to hear all these sillystories and we're sometimes as
parents.
We do tune out and we don'twant to listen to them because
you still haven't got them topick up their socks and that's
what you want to talk to themabout, and it's so.
There's that of really reallylistening, and I could always
say that as an adult, it's aboutdoing that for yourself.
It's actually listening to yourown, listening to your heart,
(09:55):
and sometimes we have that.
There are things aboutourselves that are difficult and
annoying and boring, but that'sbecause we've got used to
ourselves and we've stoppedlistening.
And if we stop, I think when Ialways say, one of the best
practices you can have is youstop, and always it's a long
(10:18):
meditation we do, but generallyit's all about just reflecting
and looking at yourself as yourown best friend.
And I always remember like Iwas.
It's a silly thing.
I remember I was in a gym onceand I was like probably on a
treadmill.
I was running and you lookalong and you see all these
people and it's one of thoseclassic things that we have
(10:42):
often, especially women, in thatwe don't, we can be quite
negative about our own bodies,and I remember I was on a
treadmill, running and I lookedover and I went, wow, that
woman's got fantastic legs.
I wish my legs looked like that.
And then I was like those aremy legs, those are my legs, and
I'm looking, oh wow, because Ithink it's somebody else.
(11:04):
So when we reflect and we stopand we just reflect back and
look at ourselves as a goodfriend, as a best friend, and so
much of the time you look atyou think I would never talk to
a friend the way I talk tomyself in my head, I go, I'll
just get on with it.
And if I stop and I reflect andI look at all the things that
(11:26):
I've been through or I've done,or how hard I try at certain
things, or the effort I put, andI look like as a friend, I'd
always say you are amazing, youare incredible with what you do.
And it's so easy to takeourselves for granted.
You know, take and take ourfamilies and our kids and our
(11:50):
parents for granted.
And if we just stop and we, welook and we listen, we go, oh
wow, you're amazing.
And that is so empowering whenwe realize and even if we're not
doing very well at something,we can look and say why am I
doing?
Why am I not doing very well atthis and a lot of times it's I
haven't given myself any time, Ihaven't given myself what I
(12:14):
need to do this thing, whateverit is.
We can say, oh, you know what,this is something that's really
hugely challenging for me andI'm doing great.
I'm doing really great becauseI'm showing up and I'm trying.
So that can be another thing,that the way of looking at
things and that's if you saidthat to a kid about anything
they were doing, that would makethem feel so great.
Carrie Lingenfelter (12:40):
I love that .
I love your being your bestfriend.
I was listening.
I was watching the holidayrecently and there was a part
that I really loved where therewas the older gentleman telling
one of the main characters youneed to be.
You need to be the maincharacter in your story.
Don't be the side character,the sidekick character be the
(13:01):
main character, the sidekickcharacter, be the main character
.
And I love that because, right,it's like your best friend is
telling you your best friendyourself is telling you how to
be the main character.
These pieces that we love aboutthe main character and these
empowering pieces, and I'mthinking in my mind as you're
saying it how could we modelthat for our children I'm
(13:22):
raising?
I have a six-year-old, almostnine-year-old daughter or
seven-year-old sorry, almostseven-year-old daughter here,
and the area I live in Coloradois very healthy.
We're like a bubble of health.
Did you just do your triathlonthis week?
Yes, I did.
I just hiked six miles.
I'm going to go for a ski later, like it's very healthy where
we live.
But I am an.
(13:47):
I have an Argentinian, spanishbody type where we have our hips
and our thighs and we are builtlike a guitar, and my daughter
is already built like a guitar,and so my husband and I are
thinking we need to start now.
We need to start this mindsetand show her these empowering
pieces about our body type.
Pearl Howie (14:01):
Maybe I don't have the energy to run the five miles
today, but yeah, that's areally specific type of fitness
and I tell you, I will tell youthis, I was the most unathletic
child, you know, and I likepractically basically failed p,
failed sports like all the time,because anytime there was a
(14:23):
sport that I was any, anytimeit's a sport that I was any.
Any time it was a sport that wegot introduced to that I was
any good at, they went.
No, we're just gonna go backand do like netball.
I don't think we have netballover there.
It's the way.
I hate it.
I'm sorry for anybody who lovesit.
It's basically like basketball,but you can't bounce the ball,
oh, so you have to just pass itand it's what they make girls
play.
And I have the worst hand toeye coordination when it comes
(14:45):
to balls and I am terrible atrunning.
Yeah, and also I have inheritedsomething from my mother which
is called you get a ball in theface anytime you go near a court
, when it doesn't matter if it'sa tennis ball or a volley.
I've been smacked in the headby so many balls.
I think the worst one was avolleyball.
I got really like a volleyballsmacked right in my face and
(15:06):
it's my mum.
You, my mum, can't go anywherenear somewhere because literally
, if she goes anywhere near thatshe would get a ball in the
head, and so I was the mostuncalled.
And then at a certain pointI've got to go to the gym
because I'm getting older and Ican't lose this kind of thing.
And then I started going toZumba.
I became a Zumba instructor andI love it.
(15:26):
I've been to conventions threetimes.
I did it full time for sixyears.
I was nominated as best Zumbainstructor in London.
Women and some men as well, whowere like I hate sport, I hate
(15:48):
exercise, I hate this, and thenthey would come in and they
would have so much fun and theywere like a kid again, like a
teen.
But I love clubbing, I loveclubbing, I've always loved
dancing and oh yeah, and Ialways remember I had girls
coming in because I did also didZumba kids, which was I did
mainly with primary schoolchildren, but I often have a lot
of like young adults coming inwith their parents or on their
(16:10):
own coming in.
And I remember I had one girland I'm sure you don't mind
saying me saying this she was.
She was doing her silver Dukeof Edinburgh award, which we do
over here.
A lot of places do it and youhave it's.
You have to do some kind ofphysical thing.
And so she came to me and shesaid, exactly was two of them?
(16:30):
And they said, could you do usa letter to say we've come to
your class and we've been doinga class and how we've done?
And I say, of course, noproblem at all.
And one of them, she said to meher p teacher was just had just
said you're never going to doit.
And she was just so cruel toher and when, and she just kept
saying to me, she's saying Iwish I had you.
I wish you'd, I'd you'd been inmy school when I was 12 or 10
(16:54):
or whatever, because I'd havebeen doing this, for I'd have
been doing this for six years.
I would have loved it becauseand it's not even some people
have that sort of and, as yousay, having a latin body type.
When you go and do zumba, comeon, yeah, and there's a zumba.
Kids is what we have for thekids and it's all about I love
it because you don't.
With the kids, class isdifferent, we do it differently,
(17:16):
but it's like you learn aboutthe history of the music and the
rhythms and the countries andthat culture and who doesn't
love that?
It's just amazing.
But I think it's just embracing.
There's all kinds of I lovewalking and I love going up
mountains, I love climbing upmountains and things like that,
and yeah, and it's like why dowe make fitness this really
(17:39):
niche?
This little tiny thing?
You have to do weights or youhave to run oh my gosh, running,
oh, don't hate running, oh no.
And I remember every time beforeI was at the gym I would just
be counting the minutes really,and doing the weights and doing
the thing and all that.
Oh no, and I have to do a bit.
Now I have some physioexercises I have to do and I,
(18:02):
when it's really bad, you justput music on and we put music on
, it's easy yes, it's sopowerful yeah, and that's my
daughter.
Carrie Lingenfelter (18:09):
She said she, she started ballet when she
was three and a half.
It was after the pandemic, andI was like I think she would
love dance, she loves music.
Music is her reset.
And so she came to me and shesaid, mom, ballet is too slow
and I want hip hop.
So I know Zumba will be up heralley one day.
And yeah, what you?
(18:30):
I think everything you'redescribing is feeling alive.
Or there's also this new theme.
I don't know how new it is, butthere's the active meditation
theme.
Right, there's the feelingconnected when you're hiking or
walking or skiing.
So what active meditation lookslike for me is for skiing.
(18:51):
I do it when I'm skiing.
I don't wear headphones, I keepmy ears open so I can hear the
swoosh, swooshing the wind inthe trees.
I can feel the movement and getmy body into the pattern of the
movement.
And so there's those meditativepieces and we do it with we're
hiking too, so teaching our kidsthese ideas of movement that
(19:12):
can be different than just theball sports.
Pearl Howie (19:16):
Yeah, I think it sounds.
That sounds to me very muchlike being in flow yes being in
flow, yeah.
So it's like, whatever you'redoing, just being being
connected, and it's greatbecause you're in that and you
just you let go of everythingand you're just being you.
Just, I think sometimes wewould call it being mindfulness
as well, but just being presentand being and just being at one,
(19:40):
and I love I get that when I'mwriting, yeah, and you're just
not thinking about anything else.
You're so in the moment and Ilike, oh, it's just wonderful,
it doesn't matter what you'redoing.
Like people get it fromknitting.
Yep, hate, I hate knitting.
But cooking sometimes I reallyget into flow when I'm cooking,
especially when I'm beingexperimental, and just let me
(20:02):
try this and let me try that andit doesn't really matter, it
doesn't matter.
Carrie Lingenfelter (20:09):
I get it with washing dishes.
It's like the one thing thatreally I can just peace out,
check out.
I can just be calm, I have nothoughts.
Sometimes I'm working through athought, but oftentimes I just
have no thoughts going and I'mjust thinking about the motion
and the cleanliness and theprocedure.
And I just have no thoughtsgoing and I'm just thinking
about the motion and thecleanliness and the procedure
and I just follow that.
Pearl Howie (20:29):
Well, in a Buddhist village, what they always say
is that you should wash dishesas if you're washing the baby
Buddha and being present andbeing 100 again, being in flow,
being 100, 100 doing what you'redoing and it and it's.
Whether it could be gardening,it doesn't matter.
When you're like 100% presentwith what you're doing, it
(20:51):
becomes this being in flow andit's yeah, it's like a
meditation, it is a meditation,it's a form of meditation.
And I think the thing withexercise it's really interesting
, especially January.
You've got the crazy exercisestuff going on.
Everybody's saying, oh,honestly, honestly, all this
stuff and everything.
And it's brilliant that so manypeople like engage and they're
joining the gym and they'regoing and I love it.
(21:12):
A little extra push that sayscome on and do this.
And it's funny.
I was in, I was swimmingyesterday and I set myself like
goals with swimming.
I love it and I love beingpresent, everything.
But I excuse me, I I want to doa little bit more because I can
cheat myself.
I get in and I do a bit andthen I go, oh, so I've only been
in five minutes.
So I do set myself goals and Iwas swimming and I thought you
(21:34):
know what, bring yourself backand remembering that swimming is
what we could call.
It's a puja for your body.
So it's a blessing for yourbody, an act of an act of really
seeing that my body is mytemple and it's just and maybe
that's something as well tobring into when we're working
with kids and fitness andexercise or active any kind of
(21:58):
activity is that, whatever youdo, it's a beautiful thing of
loving your body.
And I think sometimes we losethat in goals of, okay, I'm
going to do this, I'm going toexercise because I need to be
healthy or because I need tolose weight or build muscle, or
I need to improve mycoordination, or all right, well
(22:22):
, because I want to do anactivity with my friends or
anything, and sometimes weforget that the very basic thing
is this is an act of love formy body, this is just a
beautiful thing.
In the same way as when I'mwashing my hair, it's OK, I have
to wash it because I'm allsweaty, but it's also an act of
(22:43):
love and caring for myself andfor my body and it can just be
that, it can just be joyful.
Sometimes we've got so manydifferent messages being
bombarded at us and saying youknow what.
It's just kindness, it's justbeing kind to ourselves.
Carrie Lingenfelter (22:59):
Yeah, I love that body is a temple, I
think, especially right after Ihad babies and you have the mom
body.
I remember I just started thisact for myself in kissing my
hand and saying I love you.
I love you the way you are.
You created this tiny human andI love you for what you are.
(23:20):
You've done miracles already,so I started to do that.
I have to go back to it becauseI think you ebb and flow in your
different routines, but seeingyourself for the gift that you
are, and then modeling this forour kids, and it's coming to me
to think about doing that in themirror, for my daughter is
looking in the mirror and beinglike I really love myself for
(23:42):
who I am.
I love me for my smile thatmakes other people smile.
I love me for my eyes, forseeing the rainbow in a storm,
or these types of things that wecan start to teach our kids now
so that they can feel completein themselves as they are,
especially with our neurodiversekids like my two kids are just
(24:03):
so deeply feeling that, andtheir brains, being gifted too,
are so overactive, so it's veryeasy to go to the anxious piece,
right, it's easy to go to theoveractive piece of oh, I really
need to train 5,000 miles if Iwant to accomplish the body I
(24:24):
want.
You know what I mean.
Pearl Howie (24:25):
I think I recognize myself in that because being
neurodiverse myself and some ofthat is problematic because I
also suffer from migraines and Ialso have the thing where my
brain goes like a million milesan hour and I think it's really
coming to the understanding of Iam perfect and my brain is
(24:48):
perfect and I was thinking aboutthis recently especially coming
to this understanding later inlife, like a lot of people are,
especially women are coming intothis understanding later in
life because our understandingof what it is to be neurodiverse
is and it's something thatreally impacts when you hit
around 50, when you're goingthrough perimenopause and a lot
of people the symptoms it's abit like when you go through
(25:11):
puberty.
A lot of people understand thatthey're neurodiverse when
they're going through pubertybecause of the hormonal changes.
So it can make things a bitclearer.
Okay, this is same thing withperimenopause.
A lot of people when they'regoing through it and it's funny
sort of talk when you starttalking to people like how many
people only come to theunderstanding of that they are
(25:32):
neurodiverse.
And also our understanding ofwhat it means to be neurodiverse
has changed from.
I remember doing trainings inmy sort of 20s and 30s when I
was supporting people withautism and the training was okay
that this is the line wherewe're gonna say someone's
autistic, and now we, that lineis out here and we would say
(25:55):
somebody is autistic at a much,we say lower level, down on the
spectrum perhaps.
So our understanding has reallychanged, especially for women.
But one of the things I alwaysthink to myself is my brain is
perfect, because if I didn'thave that million miles an hour,
I couldn't do the things that Ido, especially considering that
(26:20):
sometimes with migraine, I'mcompletely incapacitated.
So it's almost like I have a.
It's funny.
I remember somebody saying it'slike having a Ferrari mind and
bicycle brakes.
So that's so you go.
Oh, okay, that's one way oflooking at it.
But the other thing is you say,okay, get off the bike track
(26:41):
and get on the race track,because then you're using that
Ferrari mind and you will tieyourself out, guarantee you.
I guarantee you, yes, you usethat and you will tie yourself
out.
And it's much easier thantrying to drive a Ferrari at
three miles an hour, becauseeverybody else is going at three
(27:02):
miles an hour, like when you'rein at school if you're in a
regular school when you'retrying to not be that strange
person who's going at Ferraritype speeds.
But the other thing I wasthinking about is I thought you
know what, again, it's like interms of society if we didn't
have people whose brains go atmillion miles an hour.
Look at all the things thatwouldn't have been invented.
We wouldn't have all of thesethings.
(27:22):
So it was something you saidalso about your, your post-birth
body, and I think that'ssometimes we think of it in
those terms.
Say, for example, you having ababy.
But I was thinking myself.
I was having a time when you'regoing to say perimenopause and
all the hormones and like that,and it's very troublesome and
(27:44):
problematic, but at the sametime, when you look at it on a
bigger picture, you think, butif we didn't have these changes
and hormones and shifts andthere would be no human race, we
wouldn't have any babies.
Yes, so this stuff that wethink of as challenging and
(28:06):
problem, it's absolutelyessential.
Yes, it's absolutely essential.
So it's really awesome about ustrying to say okay, okay, yes,
it can be really uncomfortableand difficult and there are
times we do need to get support.
We absolutely do need to reachout and get support because
(28:28):
things become so difficult forus, but at the same time, how
much of that is when you look atand say you know what?
This is absolutely essential.
It's abs.
If I didn't have this brain, Iwouldn't have written 80 books.
There's no way.
Carrie Lingenfelter (28:44):
That's what I was just thinking when you
said that.
I was like nobody else has thetime or the energy.
That's, it's amazing, but itconnects, yeah it connects.
Pearl Howie (28:53):
It happens very quickly when I'm in that, when I
have a subject, when somethingis, when I'm passionate about
something, everybody knows aboutit.
Everybody knows and it's funnyenough talking about Zumba
earlier, there's so many peoplewho are on the autistic spectrum
(29:14):
, who are instructors or who goto Zumba a lot and it's funny
because you think, when youthink about the classic things
about autism, which are thesensory issues which I have, and
sometimes social situations,things like that, it's amazing.
But the thing is about a Zumbaclass is that there's a
structure, so it actually isquite relaxing in terms of a
(29:38):
social situation, like when I gointo a Zumba class.
I know this, I know all therules of this social.
It's very easy for me tointeract socially with people,
whereas it might not be.
Honestly, just going in thechanging room is sometimes more
stressful because some peopleare over here having a
conversation, some people areand I don't know whether I'm
supposed to join in or I'm not.
And if I go into a zumba class,it's really clear and I'm
(30:00):
either in the class or I'm atthe front and I'm teaching.
And there's a lot of people whohave been diagnosed with things
like Asperger's we used to callAsperger's, who have found a
new way of having a social lifebecause they've gone into an
environment where it'sstructured.
And also this is the thing withZumba and music and dance and
(30:22):
choreography it's a lot ofpatterns, it's's so many
patterns, so when you go in andyou it's not hand to eye,
coordination, balls and thingslike that, it's patterns.
With the music there's apattern the verse, the chorus,
the bridge.
There's a pattern with theterms of the way the body moves.
If we're doing tango, it's ahexagon, it's okay, so it's
(30:43):
really easy.
If you're somebody who is goodat picking up patterns and
repetition, and okay, and I'mgoing to do this cue, and okay,
it's really easy.
If you're somebody who is goodat picking up patterns and
repetition, and okay, and I'mgoing to do this cue, and okay,
it's like a game and it's reallyeasy for me.
So you get to.
If you have a certain kind ofbrain, it's really easy and you
get to be really good atsomething.
And if you're not good atsports and you've never been
good at sports, you come in andsuddenly you're really good at
(31:03):
something and it's wonderful.
It's just wonderful.
Carrie Lingenfelter (31:06):
You come in and suddenly you're really good
at something and it's wonderful.
It's just wonderful.
It makes so much sense, thatpattern, and they know what's
coming up, you know what toexpect.
Whereas I think of my son in abasketball game.
He's the nine-year-old playingbasketball and my husband and I
were saying you have to processvery quickly what.
I just got thrown the ball, orI just got the rebound, and then
what do I do next?
(31:26):
And it's like sometimes you cansee, oh, the brain doesn't keep
up.
Yet when they're nine years old, they don't know, they can't
see the person next to them isopen because of their visual
spatial cues.
So there's all these pieces ofit that can be more challenging,
whereas Zumba, when youunderstand what's coming next,
it's predictable.
There's a pattern, there's arhythm, there's a beat.
(31:48):
So all those pieces make somuch sense.
Pearl Howie (31:50):
Yeah, if you get it wrong if you get it wrong in a
zumba class, you get it wrong welaugh.
People love it.
When in as an instructor, if youget it wrong, people love it
whereas in a basketball yeah,basketball game you're playing
and you're in a team and thestress level of I've got to get
this right, and even people whoplay at the top level say
(32:11):
basketball, say you go to NBA orwhatever.
The strategy that they have tofigure out is intense.
You could sit somebody down andyou could any game.
You could sit somebody down andsay what should this person do
in this situation?
And they would have a reallyhard time.
Who's it, who's the reallyfamous basketball player?
Carrie Lingenfelter (32:31):
I don't even know, I don't follow sports
michael jordan.
Pearl Howie (32:35):
Michael jordan, you know him okay, but I think he's
the one.
I think he's the one and Ithink the story about him is
this is that he he's watchedmore basketball than anyone's
ever watched, in terms of he wasconstantly when he was on tour
and everything.
And people would say he wasalways in his room, always
watching videos of games, alwayswatching, trying to crack the
(32:57):
code of, not just the physicalthing, you say the strategy and
trying to figure that out.
Yeah, so you can go what it'slike.
Yeah, that's something reallychallenging up to the top level.
And also here it's soccer,football, soccer, here oh my
gosh, and like, when people makemistakes.
When people make mistakes, theyplay football here.
(33:18):
Pressure the pressure, thepeople make mistakes and it's
you see it, at the high level.
Honestly, I don't know if yousaw when england lost the euros,
the men's team sorry, notsocially, the men's team lost
you and the fallout of that andyou just think and I always talk
about that in terms, it's soweird, like in my book.
(33:39):
So I wrote the book in 29, endof 2019, and I wrote a chapter
about, like, fear of success andit was about what happens in a
football match if people arecalled up to do penalties and
they don't get it.
And it's so weird becausethat's exactly what happened two
(34:01):
years, three years later andand it's this thing of, for the
team to get to the final is thebest.
I think it was the best thatthe men's team had done since
1960, since 1966, since theywere finalists, they won the
world cup and the thing is, ifyou think about it, if they had
that performance in the quarterfinal, it would have been oh no,
(34:25):
but it would have been at thatlevel.
But because they did evenbetter and they were in the
actual final and they ended upgoing through extra time and
then they finally got to thepenalties and it was so close,
it was literally it was likereally nail biting stuff.
But because they lost at thefinal thing, the devastation,
the fallout, the, the vitriol,the abuse that the players
(34:48):
received just staggering.
And you think this is one ofthe reasons why we develop fear
of success.
Okay, because it's like it'seasier to fail at a lower level
than to keep to keep doing welland fail at a higher level,
because and it's much worse inthat environment for people to
(35:15):
fail to come second you know, ifthey come fourth or fifth or
eighth or whatever, theywouldn't have had the drama,
they wouldn't have the abuse,they wouldn't have anything like
that.
And you, suddenly you look atyou say we are not supporting
people to do their best, we'renot supporting people to do
their best.
And if any of that creeps in atkids level sport we're teaching
(35:37):
kids yeah, fail quickly, failearly, don't let anybody build
up expectations about you oryour performance or what you're
going to do, and that's what weare teaching them.
So we are actually teachingthem fear of success, because if
you go all the way and then youfail at the last hurdle, you're
(35:58):
gonna get punished in a reallyhorrible way.
The police were looking into allthe online abuse that the
players were receiving.
People were arrested, peoplelost their jobs because of the
things that they wrote on socialmedia over the football match,
and the players and the managerreceived terrible abuse as well,
(36:19):
and it's a bit like somebodygoing, say, in american football
, if a team goes to the superbowl and they come in second,
that they get more abuse than ifthey hadn't ever made it to the
Super Bowl in the first place.
So are we doing that to ourkids with the sports?
Are we doing that with our kidsin an academic sense as well,
(36:41):
or are we saying what we shouldalways be saying, which which is
just do your best, and I'mproud of you.
I'm proud of you if you come in, like I always say when I'm a
teacher, as a fitness instructor, I'm always saying to everybody
is show up, you show up and youdo your best, and if you do a
little bit, it's great, if youdo a lot, it's great.
(37:03):
If you can't get that move, itdoesn't matter, you can try
again.
Carrie Lingenfelter (37:11):
You can try again yes, we started very
young, we started very early andthere there are pieces of that.
You see, at kids games.
I think we're much more awareof it than we used to be.
I was interviewing a coachrecently.
He was like a more mindfulcoach and he was talking about
how you focus on the growth thatyou've seen in that season for
(37:34):
yourself.
You don't focus on the wins,you don't focus on winning each
game, you look at the growth foryourself.
So that's what we say to ourkids a lot.
You said try hard.
I like how hard you tried thisgame.
I like how much effort you putinto it.
I can see you worked so hard atthis and I'm so proud of you
for doing what you could, doingyour best.
(37:56):
So that's what we like to sayin our house yeah, yeah, and
it's.
Pearl Howie (38:01):
It's great when you win the things and it's great
if you come first.
It's really nice, but it's notalways the thing that makes
people happiest.
It's funny.
I was thinking about the fearof success and we've got the
Oscars coming up soon and it'sone of those things.
Very often.
You often hear stories frompeople when they've won an Oscar
and they will say that's whenthey've hit their absolute rock
(38:26):
bottom and it's like one ofthose things that happens to a
lot of people when they win anOscar and everybody's like, oh,
you should be so happy.
And that's the moment when theygo.
This doesn't feel the way Ithought it was going to feel.
And it's when they oftenrealise that you know what all
those sacrifices that they'vemade in order to get to this
place were not worth it and itdoesn't fill you up.
(38:50):
It's.
And often you often hearstories about people saying the
day they won the oscar was likethe worst day of their life or
the next day, because that was amoment when they realized that
their life just wasn't it.
It's you're following a pathand when you're really wanting
something and you're going afterit.
And when you're really wantingsomething and you're going after
it and you've got all thesepressure and everybody's saying
yeah, and life will be perfectwhen I win the Oscar and life
(39:13):
will be brilliant, and then theyget there and it's it's just so
empty, it's not real authenticsuccess, it's like an illusion
of success.
And I think that's when peoplerealize that a lot of those
times of false success is whenwe realize that this is not the
life that we want to live.
This is not what we want, andperhaps one of the things we can
(39:37):
do is keep our eye on our kidsand see when they're
experiencing that as well.
Sometimes, when sometimes goodthings happen and you go and you
notice them kind of being a bitdown and it's listen and talk
to them and instead of going youshould be.
Often we kind of go oh, youshould be happy because of this
and you should be happy becauseof that.
And sometimes when we listen,we go, do you realize they've
(39:59):
worked so hard for something andthen they achieve it but
actually it doesn't bring themhappiness or joy because it
wasn't really what they wanted.
And perhaps sometimes it's alsodoing it because they're trying
to please us, because theythink it's important to us, so
it's hey, what's important to me, make my mum happy, make my dad
(40:19):
happy and then they get thereand it's.
It's not enough.
Yeah, because they haven'treally done what they.
In order to achieve this,they've had to give up that
which was actually moreimportant to them.
And, honestly, working at highlevels in finance with people
who have, I've worked with somany people who've got all kinds
(40:40):
of money and state and allkinds of things and it's like
sometimes somebody does a lot toget that really shiny thing the
car, the house, the job, thebusiness whatever it is, and
even the diamond ring, somepeople, the idea of getting
married, and and then there's acrash because it you know what.
(41:04):
That was a trophy.
That wasn't like, it wasn'twhat I wanted, it wasn't
important to me, it was justsomething that I thought would
make me happy or that everybodytold me was going to make me
happy.
And we often see that crashwith people who spend all their
(41:24):
time.
They go on, they're great atschool, college, they go to
university, they get theirdegree, they get their career,
they do all that kind of thing,and then they have depression or
they have a breakdown and we go, but you have everything.
But they didn't get to.
But the thing is, it's like theydidn't get to go and be an
(41:45):
artist, which might be what wastrue to them.
Carrie Lingenfelter (41:47):
It's staying connected, right.
Staying connected to hear whatyou truly want, what's true in
your heart.
Pearl Howie (41:54):
I think it's just really, and it's the same
whether it's kids or anybody inyour life, it's you know what,
it's listening to what's comingfrom them and also just saying
you know, know what, whoever youare authentically, whoever you
are, is I love you.
I, my love is unconditional.
And if you, if you start dating, if you're going out with
(42:18):
somebody, that's great, if itmakes you happy.
But it's what makes you happy,not what I think about it.
It's your business and it'shard because you want, you want
them to be happy and they tellyou they want something and then
you're really encouraging andthen they're like actually, no,
I don't really want that anymore, and you're like okay, okay,
that's okay, that's okay, youcan have, you can do that, you
can do this, that's okay andit's it's.
(42:40):
It's very difficult becausedisappointing your parents can
be very painful, at whatever ageyou are, and sometimes you know
it, your parents can be veryexcited about something you're
doing and the reason you'redoing it is because it's just
it's what, it's who they are,not who you are that I've seen
that a lot too.
Carrie Lingenfelter (43:00):
Yeah, then you're never gonna feel fully
successful in your heart forsure.
Thank you so much, pearl, forall of your wonderful insight,
and I wanted to have you touchwe didn't get to touch on your
virtual retreat that you have.
Yes, did you want to tell us alittle bit about that?
Pearl Howie (43:17):
Yeah, it's quite new and it's a free to access
space and it's really.
It's built and channels all theamazing places that I've been
to in my life some of the mostamazing places and the vibe of a
retreat space, which issomewhere that you can just come
and have the space to beyourself and to do the practice
(43:39):
of just being authenticallyyourself and figuring out who
that is yeah, it's calledRoshanara by Pearl Escapes, and
the translation of that is thelight of the gathering.
So it's a community space sothat you can see each other and
you can.
So, like other social media,you can actually connect with
other people.
So we have a very stringentcode of conduct to keep it
(44:01):
family friendly.
It's not for kids, but it'sfamily friendly, so it's
something you could actually dowith your, with your kids, with
your teenage.
You don't have to hide thelaptop when you want to do some.
If you want to go on that kindof thing and we've also got some
.
I've just been working on aseries of workshops which are
all about finding your authenticsuccess, so it's called
(44:23):
authentic success your way, andthere's seven of those and I'm
just now putting those on andagain free to access so you can
go on and do the workshops andthey're all the videos are
filmed as a retreat, so they'reall filmed around here me
sitting on the beat and in thewoods and in the hotel and to
(44:45):
really give you that sense ofspace and getting away, because
I think so often we need thatperspective, we need to feel as
if we've come away, so that wecan turn around and reflect back
on life, and I think that'swhat retreats are all about is
just trying to give you.
So I know it's not the same ascoming on a real life retreat,
but I know that so many peoplewant to do that, especially this
(45:07):
time of year, and it's verydifficult with time, money, all
that kind of logistics, so Iwanted to give that to people as
much as I can really.
So that's what Roshanara is allabout, and it's based on the
heartbeat app so you canactually download the heartbeat
app and then have Roshanara onyour phone as an app so you can
(45:28):
literally just it's like alittle heart, and then you just
press it and you're straightinto roshanara so you can watch
the video, you know.
So it's great because it's likehaving it, it's like having a
free well-being app.
Um, yeah, so I'm gonna.
I've sent you the link, so it'slike a little invite.
you have to have an invitebecause that's the way they set
it up, so that kind of protectsthe community really.
So you need, like the little,the password.
Carrie Lingenfelter (45:49):
Oh, my, okay, we'll figure out how to
include that in the show notes,cause I think other people would
love that Maybe if they go toyour website.
Is that the best?
Pearl Howie (45:57):
Yeah, if you go to my website, it's pearlhowiecom,
and if you go to contact andjust join my newsletter or you
can join my newsletter onlinkedin as well, and so I'm
sending the invitation obviouslyout to everyone on my
newsletter and that willprobably be on every week.
So you get a newsletter once aweek and so the link will be on
there and then you can gostraight.
And also it's really useful forme if people tell me what they
(46:19):
find works doesn't work.
Still very new, it's about amonth old, but the whole idea is
that it's going to be alsobecause I have a program, fear
of success instructors, sothat's going to come on there as
well.
So, like all the resources forfear of success instructors and
because I think that's the thingis that more we, I just feel
(46:40):
like it's a training thateverybody should have, like all
teachers should have and anybodywho's trying to support people.
Parents, yeah, definitely,because the thing is it's very
simple, really fair success.
Once you see it, it's like oneof those magic puzzles.
Once you see it and you go, ohyeah, and then you can really
support people and help them.
So that's it's all about justtrying to help people feel alive
(47:03):
and just take time out as wellwhen you sometimes you just need
to.
I'm lucky I live down here.
It's so nice, lovely that'sbeautiful.
Carrie Lingenfelter (47:10):
Yeah, you're very lucky.
Thank you so much, pearl.
We'll share that.
We'll share your site and theshow notes today.
Thanks so much for being herewith us, thank you.
Pearl Howie (47:18):
Thank you, it's been lovely.
It's always so nice to chatwith you.
It's just a lovely vibe, thankyou, I appreciate that.
Carrie Lingenfelter (47:25):
Well, that Well, that's a wrap.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Change makers.
This is Carrie, and if youhaven't done a review for us,
five stars and a little fewwords about what you've enjoyed
in our podcast episodes, wewould really appreciate it.
If you guys would like to evermessage me, I would love any
questions you have or anyfeedback.
(47:46):
At info at hearttoheartlifecom,we also have a brand new
website which we're superexcited to share.
It's hearttoheartlifecom.
Thanks so much for tuning inand happy life, happy times.
Changemaker families.
So what active meditation looks like for
me is for skiing.
I do it when I'm skiing.
I don't wear headphones, I keepmy ears open so I can hear the
swoosh, swooshing, the wind inthe trees.
I can feel the movement and getmy body into the pattern of the
movement.
And so there's those meditativepieces.
And we do it when we're hikingtoo.
So teaching our kids theseideas of movement that can be
(00:25):
different than just the ballsports.
Pearl Howie (00:28):
Yeah, I think it sounds.
That sounds to me very muchlike being in flow, yes, or
being in flow.
So it's like, whatever you'redoing, just being connected and
it's great because you're inthat and you just let go of
everything and you're just being.
I think sometimes we would callit being mindfulness as well,
but just being present and beingand just being at one, and I
(00:52):
love I get that when I'm writing, yeah, and you're just not
thinking about anything else.
You're so in the moment and Ilike, oh, it's just wonderful,
it doesn't matter what you'redoing, like people get it from
knitting.
Carrie Lingenfelter (01:05):
Conscious parents.
It's Carrie here and I am herewith a little info about raising
our mindful kids.
I've got some tips and tricksabout breaking free of the box
and becoming who you are andteaching your kids how to do
that.
Along the way, join us, hithere and welcome back.
This is Carrie, your friendly,intuitive mama here, and I am so
(01:30):
excited I have a fabulous guestthat I have welcomed back to
the show.
We had her on our Thanksgivingepisode and she was so much fun
and had such amazing insights.
I have Pearl Howie here todayand I love that.
She has dedicated her careerand her time toward helping
people feel alive through heraccomplished books and programs
that she has, and thank you somuch, pearl, for coming back.
Thank you for having me.
Pearl Howie (01:50):
We had a lot of fun last time, so I'm really
looking forward to it.
Carrie Lingenfelter (01:53):
Yeah, it's so much fun to connect again and
already know somebody and havethem back.
I love that experience.
So I was so excited becausetoday we get to dive more into
your background and things thatyou bring to the table for
families, and you and I werespeaking a little bit earlier.
I love that you have this piecethat you've talked about with
(02:24):
the mission of helping kids tostay conscious into adulthood is
to help them stay connectedwith themselves, to help them
stay connected to their heartsinto adulthood.
Do you find any ideas about thecause of these fears of success
that you find with adults?
I think part of it, too, isallowing our kids to make the
(02:46):
mistakes now, at the young age,because the stakes are not as
high right when we're adults andwe're making the mistakes, the
stakes are a little bit higher.
So if we are helicopterparenting right now and we're
controlling their environment somuch to where they don't make a
mistake For instance, my sonhe's in third grade now in the
(03:11):
US, in Colorado, and I justallow him to do his own reading
log.
Sometimes it's lost, sometimesit's on the ground in the
mudroom, sometimes it's on thefloor in his bedroom, but he's
in charge of it and I'm lettinghim figure out how to organize
himself, how to plan out thatmonth of reading log info, and
(03:34):
that's his own thing, that he'sin charge of, right.
So if he makes a mistake and heloses it, then he has the
consequence of that for himself.
Then that's something that I'vedecided that he needs to start
learning about and being incharge of, because a lot of the
times it's buddy, you need topick up your socks.
Buddy, you left your rc truckon the front lawn.
(03:54):
There's a lot of pieces rightwhere I'm having to take care of
him, so I'm trying to teach hima little bit of that
independence and allowing him tomake those mistakes now.
So I think that's where I wasgoing with the mistakes.
Pearl Howie (04:05):
Oh, totally I think , do you know?
I think the thing is because westarted talking about like
things like wandering off andtalking to strangers and
stranger.
We've started this conversationat a very talking about quite
what we could call quite highrisk behavior.
Yeah, yeah, more higher.
So when we talk about thingslike that and it is really
challenging.
And then when you talk aboutthings like doing your homework-
yeah and letting kids maketheir own mistakes and figure it
(04:28):
out.
That's brilliant place for kidsto learn about consequences.
It's so great for people tolearn about consequences.
That's what it's all about,really, isn't it?
Having challenges, settinghomework, all those kind of
things what happens if I don'tdo my homework?
Then find out.
You're going to find out I'm.
(04:48):
My mum was so hands-off when itcame to homework.
She was very much look, that'sup to you, that's completely up
to you.
And, yeah, I was very awarethat that was completely up to
me and I think that for me, thatwas really useful because it
makes you very, it doesencourage you to be organized,
(05:13):
yeah, and not expect somebodyelse to keep telling you hey,
you need to do this, you need todo that, you need to do the
other yeah and but again it's.
Sometimes it's also I rememberhelping my nephew with his
homework because he got into areal model and as I was going
through it I was like this isincredibly complicated and
confusing the way that theschool were setting up the
(05:34):
assignments online and I waslike how do you keep this
straight?
You've got each week, everyother week, you have a different
lesson in the same slot andthey put the homework online
before they've done the lesson.
So it's saying you need to.
The homework's available to do,but and I was like but you and
he was doing it and I was like,wow, this is.
And he said, yeah, but Ihaven't done the lesson yet.
I said why are you doing thehomework?
(05:55):
So I'm just trying to get itdone.
I'm like, no, you need to dothe homework for the lessons
you've actually done becauseyou're making it harder on
yourself.
But honestly, at that point itwas like when I went into, I
thought you know what?
The school, or actually they'vegot a problem.
They've got a problem.
I think sometimes we do assumeit's the kids have got the
problem.
You're like, actually,sometimes it's so, not, it's
just, it's this problem.
(06:17):
And I think again it's likethat isn't it, that kids know
that they can come to you andsay, look, I don't understand
this.
And then if it was my mom,she'd be like, yeah, you've got
to figure it out.
She really, she literally besaying that and I wouldn't have
had somebody in my corner to goto then say, actually, the
school have made the mistake,not you.
Yeah, yeah, and unfortunatelythat it's really all this stuff.
(06:40):
As you say, it's all a learningcurve and sometimes the
consequences are huge if youdon't have that support all the
way through.
I remember my sister.
Actually, she failed one of herexams because they taught them
the wrong syllabus oh man fortwo years oh and then, yeah,
exactly, and then they onlyfound out they only found out
once the exam results came outthat they had actually been
studying.
They studied the wrong thing,and that's two years of so again
(07:04):
.
Sometimes it's we that's a hugeissue, but again it's trying to
.
Carrie Lingenfelter (07:10):
You would think at that age that you could
trust the school to provide agood learning yeah, it's to each
kid, right, it's independentand it sounds like those are
external factors, right, insteadof Instead of an internal
factor.
Pearl Howie (07:24):
Totally.
But I think sometimes that, ashard as it is and as bad as that
is, at the same time it's alsowe learn as we grow up that that
institutions make big mistakesand that they're not infallible
and that we cannot put a hundredpercent trust into any
institution.
Really, and sometimes that's animportant lesson that we all
(07:46):
need and our kids need, as theyget older to question authority
and to question what they'rebeing told.
It's so important.
So it's really hard becausewhen they're younger we're all
like, yes, listen to the teacherand trust the teacher and do
what the teacher tells you to do, and this kind of thing.
And as they get older it's hangon a second you have a right to
(08:12):
question your teachers.
Carrie Lingenfelter (08:13):
You have a right to do that opinion.
Yeah, yeah, and part of thatalso, I think, is teaching our
kids to feel empowered enough tohave that question.
Do you have any tips forstaying empowered or finding
empowerment as an adult or as achild staying empowered?
Do you have any thoughts onempowerment that?
Pearl Howie (08:27):
was one my husband and I were discussing this
morning was empowered.
I'm always talking aboutlistening and I think when you
listen to your kids and itdoesn't matter what they're
saying, when you listen to themand you find them interesting,
and I think when you reallylisten, you always find them
interesting.
It's when you're, it's whenyou're half listening, when
you're doing other things thatthat they you know, you think,
(08:48):
oh, they're talking about this.
And when they're four andthey're just telling you
everything, you start to tuneout.
And I think we we need to getgood at waking up that listening
.
And it's the same with olderpeople, it's the same with your
parents.
As you get older, they talk alot and then some in there
there's some really importantthings that they tell you that
you have to stay switched on tolisten to.
(09:09):
In amongst all of that there'ssomething really important that
they just tell you in amongst itall.
But I think when you have Isuppose one of the things is as
an auntie there's a thing whenyou're like, oh, you're always
saying to the kids oh, you're sointeresting, oh you're so
brilliant, oh you're sowonderful, and that is really
empowering for them because theydo.
They feel like somebody wantsto hear everything, somebody
(09:30):
wants to hear all these sillystories and we're sometimes as
parents.
We do tune out and we don'twant to listen to them because
you still haven't got them topick up their socks and that's
what you want to talk to themabout, and it's so.
There's that of really reallylistening, and I could always
say that as an adult, it's aboutdoing that for yourself.
It's actually listening to yourown, listening to your heart,
(09:55):
and sometimes we have that.
There are things aboutourselves that are difficult and
annoying and boring, but that'sbecause we've got used to
ourselves and we've stoppedlistening.
And if we stop, I think when Ialways say, one of the best
practices you can have is youstop, and always it's a long
(10:18):
meditation we do, but generallyit's all about just reflecting
and looking at yourself as yourown best friend.
And I always remember like Iwas.
It's a silly thing.
I remember I was in a gym onceand I was like probably on a
treadmill.
I was running and you lookalong and you see all these
people and it's one of thoseclassic things that we have
(10:42):
often, especially women, in thatwe don't, we can be quite
negative about our own bodies,and I remember I was on a
treadmill, running and I lookedover and I went, wow, that
woman's got fantastic legs.
I wish my legs looked like that.
And then I was like those aremy legs, those are my legs, and
I'm looking, oh wow, because Ithink it's somebody else.
(11:04):
So when we reflect and we stopand we just reflect back and
look at ourselves as a goodfriend, as a best friend, and so
much of the time you look atyou think I would never talk to
a friend the way I talk tomyself in my head, I go, I'll
just get on with it.
And if I stop and I reflect andI look at all the things that
(11:26):
I've been through or I've done,or how hard I try at certain
things, or the effort I put, andI look like as a friend, I'd
always say you are amazing, youare incredible with what you do.
And it's so easy to takeourselves for granted.
You know, take and take ourfamilies and our kids and our
(11:50):
parents for granted.
And if we just stop and we, welook and we listen, we go, oh
wow, you're amazing.
And that is so empowering whenwe realize and even if we're not
doing very well at something,we can look and say why am I
doing?
Why am I not doing very well atthis and a lot of times it's I
haven't given myself any time, Ihaven't given myself what I
(12:14):
need to do this thing, whateverit is.
We can say, oh, you know what,this is something that's really
hugely challenging for me andI'm doing great.
I'm doing really great becauseI'm showing up and I'm trying.
So that can be another thing,that the way of looking at
things and that's if you saidthat to a kid about anything
they were doing, that would makethem feel so great.
Carrie Lingenfelter (12:40):
I love that .
I love your being your bestfriend.
I was listening.
I was watching the holidayrecently and there was a part
that I really loved where therewas the older gentleman telling
one of the main characters youneed to be.
You need to be the maincharacter in your story.
Don't be the side character,the sidekick character be the
(13:01):
main character, the sidekickcharacter, be the main character
.
And I love that because, right,it's like your best friend is
telling you your best friendyourself is telling you how to
be the main character.
These pieces that we love aboutthe main character and these
empowering pieces, and I'mthinking in my mind as you're
saying it how could we modelthat for our children I'm
(13:22):
raising?
I have a six-year-old, almostnine-year-old daughter or
seven-year-old sorry, almostseven-year-old daughter here,
and the area I live in Coloradois very healthy.
We're like a bubble of health.
Did you just do your triathlonthis week?
Yes, I did.
I just hiked six miles.
I'm going to go for a ski later, like it's very healthy where
we live.
But I am an.
(13:47):
I have an Argentinian, spanishbody type where we have our hips
and our thighs and we are builtlike a guitar, and my daughter
is already built like a guitar,and so my husband and I are
thinking we need to start now.
We need to start this mindsetand show her these empowering
pieces about our body type.
Pearl Howie (14:01):
Maybe I don't have the energy to run the five miles
today, but yeah, that's areally specific type of fitness
and I tell you, I will tell youthis, I was the most unathletic
child, you know, and I likepractically basically failed p,
failed sports like all the time,because anytime there was a
(14:23):
sport that I was any, anytimeit's a sport that I was any.
Any time it was a sport that wegot introduced to that I was
any good at, they went.
No, we're just gonna go backand do like netball.
I don't think we have netballover there.
It's the way.
I hate it.
I'm sorry for anybody who lovesit.
It's basically like basketball,but you can't bounce the ball,
oh, so you have to just pass itand it's what they make girls
play.
And I have the worst hand toeye coordination when it comes
(14:45):
to balls and I am terrible atrunning.
Yeah, and also I have inheritedsomething from my mother which
is called you get a ball in theface anytime you go near a court
, when it doesn't matter if it'sa tennis ball or a volley.
I've been smacked in the headby so many balls.
I think the worst one was avolleyball.
I got really like a volleyballsmacked right in my face and
(15:06):
it's my mum.
You, my mum, can't go anywherenear somewhere because literally
, if she goes anywhere near thatshe would get a ball in the
head, and so I was the mostuncalled.
And then at a certain pointI've got to go to the gym
because I'm getting older and Ican't lose this kind of thing.
And then I started going toZumba.
I became a Zumba instructor andI love it.
(15:26):
I've been to conventions threetimes.
I did it full time for sixyears.
I was nominated as best Zumbainstructor in London.
Women and some men as well, whowere like I hate sport, I hate
(15:48):
exercise, I hate this, and thenthey would come in and they
would have so much fun and theywere like a kid again, like a
teen.
But I love clubbing, I loveclubbing, I've always loved
dancing and oh yeah, and Ialways remember I had girls
coming in because I did also didZumba kids, which was I did
mainly with primary schoolchildren, but I often have a lot
of like young adults coming inwith their parents or on their
(16:10):
own coming in.
And I remember I had one girland I'm sure you don't mind
saying me saying this she was.
She was doing her silver Dukeof Edinburgh award, which we do
over here.
A lot of places do it and youhave it's.
You have to do some kind ofphysical thing.
And so she came to me and shesaid, exactly was two of them?
(16:30):
And they said, could you do usa letter to say we've come to
your class and we've been doinga class and how we've done?
And I say, of course, noproblem at all.
And one of them, she said to meher p teacher was just had just
said you're never going to doit.
And she was just so cruel toher and when, and she just kept
saying to me, she's saying Iwish I had you.
I wish you'd, I'd you'd been inmy school when I was 12 or 10
(16:54):
or whatever, because I'd havebeen doing this, for I'd have
been doing this for six years.
I would have loved it becauseand it's not even some people
have that sort of and, as yousay, having a latin body type.
When you go and do zumba, comeon, yeah, and there's a zumba.
Kids is what we have for thekids and it's all about I love
it because you don't.
With the kids, class isdifferent, we do it differently,
(17:16):
but it's like you learn aboutthe history of the music and the
rhythms and the countries andthat culture and who doesn't
love that?
It's just amazing.
But I think it's just embracing.
There's all kinds of I lovewalking and I love going up
mountains, I love climbing upmountains and things like that,
and yeah, and it's like why dowe make fitness this really
(17:39):
niche?
This little tiny thing?
You have to do weights or youhave to run oh my gosh, running,
oh, don't hate running, oh no.
And I remember every time beforeI was at the gym I would just
be counting the minutes really,and doing the weights and doing
the thing and all that.
Oh no, and I have to do a bit.
Now I have some physioexercises I have to do and I,
(18:02):
when it's really bad, you justput music on and we put music on
, it's easy yes, it's sopowerful yeah, and that's my
daughter.
Carrie Lingenfelter (18:09):
She said she, she started ballet when she
was three and a half.
It was after the pandemic, andI was like I think she would
love dance, she loves music.
Music is her reset.
And so she came to me and shesaid, mom, ballet is too slow
and I want hip hop.
So I know Zumba will be up heralley one day.
And yeah, what you?
(18:30):
I think everything you'redescribing is feeling alive.
Or there's also this new theme.
I don't know how new it is, butthere's the active meditation
theme.
Right, there's the feelingconnected when you're hiking or
walking or skiing.
So what active meditation lookslike for me is for skiing.
(18:51):
I do it when I'm skiing.
I don't wear headphones, I keepmy ears open so I can hear the
swoosh, swooshing the wind inthe trees.
I can feel the movement and getmy body into the pattern of the
movement.
And so there's those meditativepieces and we do it with we're
hiking too, so teaching our kidsthese ideas of movement that
(19:12):
can be different than just theball sports.
Pearl Howie (19:16):
Yeah, I think it sounds.
That sounds to me very muchlike being in flow yes being in
flow, yeah.
So it's like, whatever you'redoing, just being being
connected, and it's greatbecause you're in that and you
just you let go of everythingand you're just being you.
Just, I think sometimes wewould call it being mindfulness
as well, but just being presentand being and just being at one,
(19:40):
and I love I get that when I'mwriting, yeah, and you're just
not thinking about anything else.
You're so in the moment and Ilike, oh, it's just wonderful,
it doesn't matter what you'redoing.
Like people get it fromknitting.
Yep, hate, I hate knitting.
But cooking sometimes I reallyget into flow when I'm cooking,
especially when I'm beingexperimental, and just let me
(20:02):
try this and let me try that andit doesn't really matter, it
doesn't matter.
Carrie Lingenfelter (20:09):
I get it with washing dishes.
It's like the one thing thatreally I can just peace out,
check out.
I can just be calm, I have nothoughts.
Sometimes I'm working through athought, but oftentimes I just
have no thoughts going and I'mjust thinking about the motion
and the cleanliness and theprocedure.
And I just have no thoughtsgoing and I'm just thinking
about the motion and thecleanliness and the procedure
and I just follow that.
Pearl Howie (20:29):
Well, in a Buddhist village, what they always say
is that you should wash dishesas if you're washing the baby
Buddha and being present andbeing 100 again, being in flow,
being 100, 100 doing what you'redoing and it and it's.
Whether it could be gardening,it doesn't matter.
When you're like 100% presentwith what you're doing, it
(20:51):
becomes this being in flow andit's yeah, it's like a
meditation, it is a meditation,it's a form of meditation.
And I think the thing withexercise it's really interesting
, especially January.
You've got the crazy exercisestuff going on.
Everybody's saying, oh,honestly, honestly, all this
stuff and everything.
And it's brilliant that so manypeople like engage and they're
joining the gym and they'regoing and I love it.
(21:12):
A little extra push that sayscome on and do this.
And it's funny.
I was in, I was swimmingyesterday and I set myself like
goals with swimming.
I love it and I love beingpresent, everything.
But I excuse me, I I want to doa little bit more because I can
cheat myself.
I get in and I do a bit andthen I go, oh, so I've only been
in five minutes.
So I do set myself goals and Iwas swimming and I thought you
(21:34):
know what, bring yourself backand remembering that swimming is
what we could call.
It's a puja for your body.
So it's a blessing for yourbody, an act of an act of really
seeing that my body is mytemple and it's just and maybe
that's something as well tobring into when we're working
with kids and fitness andexercise or active any kind of
(21:58):
activity is that, whatever youdo, it's a beautiful thing of
loving your body.
And I think sometimes we losethat in goals of, okay, I'm
going to do this, I'm going toexercise because I need to be
healthy or because I need tolose weight or build muscle, or
I need to improve mycoordination, or all right, well
(22:22):
, because I want to do anactivity with my friends or
anything, and sometimes weforget that the very basic thing
is this is an act of love formy body, this is just a
beautiful thing.
In the same way as when I'mwashing my hair, it's OK, I have
to wash it because I'm allsweaty, but it's also an act of
(22:43):
love and caring for myself andfor my body and it can just be
that, it can just be joyful.
Sometimes we've got so manydifferent messages being
bombarded at us and saying youknow what.
It's just kindness, it's justbeing kind to ourselves.
Carrie Lingenfelter (22:59):
Yeah, I love that body is a temple, I
think, especially right after Ihad babies and you have the mom
body.
I remember I just started thisact for myself in kissing my
hand and saying I love you.
I love you the way you are.
You created this tiny human andI love you for what you are.
(23:20):
You've done miracles already,so I started to do that.
I have to go back to it becauseI think you ebb and flow in your
different routines, but seeingyourself for the gift that you
are, and then modeling this forour kids, and it's coming to me
to think about doing that in themirror, for my daughter is
looking in the mirror and beinglike I really love myself for
(23:42):
who I am.
I love me for my smile thatmakes other people smile.
I love me for my eyes, forseeing the rainbow in a storm,
or these types of things that wecan start to teach our kids now
so that they can feel completein themselves as they are,
especially with our neurodiversekids like my two kids are just
(24:03):
so deeply feeling that, andtheir brains, being gifted too,
are so overactive, so it's veryeasy to go to the anxious piece,
right, it's easy to go to theoveractive piece of oh, I really
need to train 5,000 miles if Iwant to accomplish the body I
(24:24):
want.
You know what I mean.
Pearl Howie (24:25):
I think I recognize myself in that because being
neurodiverse myself and some ofthat is problematic because I
also suffer from migraines and Ialso have the thing where my
brain goes like a million milesan hour and I think it's really
coming to the understanding of Iam perfect and my brain is
(24:48):
perfect and I was thinking aboutthis recently especially coming
to this understanding later inlife, like a lot of people are,
especially women are coming intothis understanding later in
life because our understandingof what it is to be neurodiverse
is and it's something thatreally impacts when you hit
around 50, when you're goingthrough perimenopause and a lot
of people the symptoms it's abit like when you go through
(25:11):
puberty.
A lot of people understand thatthey're neurodiverse when
they're going through pubertybecause of the hormonal changes.
So it can make things a bitclearer.
Okay, this is same thing withperimenopause.
A lot of people when they'regoing through it and it's funny
sort of talk when you starttalking to people like how many
people only come to theunderstanding of that they are
(25:32):
neurodiverse.
And also our understanding ofwhat it means to be neurodiverse
has changed from.
I remember doing trainings inmy sort of 20s and 30s when I
was supporting people withautism and the training was okay
that this is the line wherewe're gonna say someone's
autistic, and now we, that lineis out here and we would say
(25:55):
somebody is autistic at a much,we say lower level, down on the
spectrum perhaps.
So our understanding has reallychanged, especially for women.
But one of the things I alwaysthink to myself is my brain is
perfect, because if I didn'thave that million miles an hour,
I couldn't do the things that Ido, especially considering that
(26:20):
sometimes with migraine, I'mcompletely incapacitated.
So it's almost like I have a.
It's funny.
I remember somebody saying it'slike having a Ferrari mind and
bicycle brakes.
So that's so you go.
Oh, okay, that's one way oflooking at it.
But the other thing is you say,okay, get off the bike track
(26:41):
and get on the race track,because then you're using that
Ferrari mind and you will tieyourself out, guarantee you.
I guarantee you, yes, you usethat and you will tie yourself
out.
And it's much easier thantrying to drive a Ferrari at
three miles an hour, becauseeverybody else is going at three
(27:02):
miles an hour, like when you'rein at school if you're in a
regular school when you'retrying to not be that strange
person who's going at Ferraritype speeds.
But the other thing I wasthinking about is I thought you
know what, again, it's like interms of society if we didn't
have people whose brains go atmillion miles an hour.
Look at all the things thatwouldn't have been invented.
We wouldn't have all of thesethings.
(27:22):
So it was something you saidalso about your, your post-birth
body, and I think that'ssometimes we think of it in
those terms.
Say, for example, you having ababy.
But I was thinking myself.
I was having a time when you'regoing to say perimenopause and
all the hormones and like that,and it's very troublesome and
(27:44):
problematic, but at the sametime, when you look at it on a
bigger picture, you think, butif we didn't have these changes
and hormones and shifts andthere would be no human race, we
wouldn't have any babies.
Yes, so this stuff that wethink of as challenging and
(28:06):
problem, it's absolutelyessential.
Yes, it's absolutely essential.
So it's really awesome about ustrying to say okay, okay, yes,
it can be really uncomfortableand difficult and there are
times we do need to get support.
We absolutely do need to reachout and get support because
(28:28):
things become so difficult forus, but at the same time, how
much of that is when you look atand say you know what?
This is absolutely essential.
It's abs.
If I didn't have this brain, Iwouldn't have written 80 books.
There's no way.
Carrie Lingenfelter (28:44):
That's what I was just thinking when you
said that.
I was like nobody else has thetime or the energy.
That's, it's amazing, but itconnects, yeah it connects.
Pearl Howie (28:53):
It happens very quickly when I'm in that, when I
have a subject, when somethingis, when I'm passionate about
something, everybody knows aboutit.
Everybody knows and it's funnyenough talking about Zumba
earlier, there's so many peoplewho are on the autistic spectrum
(29:14):
, who are instructors or who goto Zumba a lot and it's funny
because you think, when youthink about the classic things
about autism, which are thesensory issues which I have, and
sometimes social situations,things like that, it's amazing.
But the thing is about a Zumbaclass is that there's a
structure, so it actually isquite relaxing in terms of a
(29:38):
social situation, like when I gointo a Zumba class.
I know this, I know all therules of this social.
It's very easy for me tointeract socially with people,
whereas it might not be.
Honestly, just going in thechanging room is sometimes more
stressful because some peopleare over here having a
conversation, some people areand I don't know whether I'm
supposed to join in or I'm not.
And if I go into a zumba class,it's really clear and I'm
(30:00):
either in the class or I'm atthe front and I'm teaching.
And there's a lot of people whohave been diagnosed with things
like Asperger's we used to callAsperger's, who have found a
new way of having a social lifebecause they've gone into an
environment where it'sstructured.
And also this is the thing withZumba and music and dance and
(30:22):
choreography it's a lot ofpatterns, it's's so many
patterns, so when you go in andyou it's not hand to eye,
coordination, balls and thingslike that, it's patterns.
With the music there's apattern the verse, the chorus,
the bridge.
There's a pattern with theterms of the way the body moves.
If we're doing tango, it's ahexagon, it's okay, so it's
(30:43):
really easy.
If you're somebody who is goodat picking up patterns and
repetition, and okay, and I'mgoing to do this cue, and okay,
it's really easy.
If you're somebody who is goodat picking up patterns and
repetition, and okay, and I'mgoing to do this cue, and okay,
it's like a game and it's reallyeasy for me.
So you get to.
If you have a certain kind ofbrain, it's really easy and you
get to be really good atsomething.
And if you're not good atsports and you've never been
good at sports, you come in andsuddenly you're really good at
(31:03):
something and it's wonderful.
It's just wonderful.
Carrie Lingenfelter (31:06):
You come in and suddenly you're really good
at something and it's wonderful.
It's just wonderful.
It makes so much sense, thatpattern, and they know what's
coming up, you know what toexpect.
Whereas I think of my son in abasketball game.
He's the nine-year-old playingbasketball and my husband and I
were saying you have to processvery quickly what.
I just got thrown the ball, orI just got the rebound, and then
what do I do next?
(31:26):
And it's like sometimes you cansee, oh, the brain doesn't keep
up.
Yet when they're nine years old, they don't know, they can't
see the person next to them isopen because of their visual
spatial cues.
So there's all these pieces ofit that can be more challenging,
whereas Zumba, when youunderstand what's coming next,
it's predictable.
There's a pattern, there's arhythm, there's a beat.
(31:48):
So all those pieces make somuch sense.
Pearl Howie (31:50):
Yeah, if you get it wrong if you get it wrong in a
zumba class, you get it wrong welaugh.
People love it.
When in as an instructor, if youget it wrong, people love it
whereas in a basketball yeah,basketball game you're playing
and you're in a team and thestress level of I've got to get
this right, and even people whoplay at the top level say
(32:11):
basketball, say you go to NBA orwhatever.
The strategy that they have tofigure out is intense.
You could sit somebody down andyou could any game.
You could sit somebody down andsay what should this person do
in this situation?
And they would have a reallyhard time.
Who's it, who's the reallyfamous basketball player?
Carrie Lingenfelter (32:31):
I don't even know, I don't follow sports
michael jordan.
Pearl Howie (32:35):
Michael jordan, you know him okay, but I think he's
the one.
I think he's the one and Ithink the story about him is
this is that he he's watchedmore basketball than anyone's
ever watched, in terms of he wasconstantly when he was on tour
and everything.
And people would say he wasalways in his room, always
watching videos of games, alwayswatching, trying to crack the
(32:57):
code of, not just the physicalthing, you say the strategy and
trying to figure that out.
Yeah, so you can go what it'slike.
Yeah, that's something reallychallenging up to the top level.
And also here it's soccer,football, soccer, here oh my
gosh, and like, when people makemistakes.
When people make mistakes, theyplay football here.
(33:18):
Pressure the pressure, thepeople make mistakes and it's
you see it, at the high level.
Honestly, I don't know if yousaw when england lost the euros,
the men's team sorry, notsocially, the men's team lost
you and the fallout of that andyou just think and I always talk
about that in terms, it's soweird, like in my book.
(33:39):
So I wrote the book in 29, endof 2019, and I wrote a chapter
about, like, fear of success andit was about what happens in a
football match if people arecalled up to do penalties and
they don't get it.
And it's so weird becausethat's exactly what happened two
(34:01):
years, three years later andand it's this thing of, for the
team to get to the final is thebest.
I think it was the best thatthe men's team had done since
1960, since 1966, since theywere finalists, they won the
world cup and the thing is, ifyou think about it, if they had
that performance in the quarterfinal, it would have been oh no,
(34:25):
but it would have been at thatlevel.
But because they did evenbetter and they were in the
actual final and they ended upgoing through extra time and
then they finally got to thepenalties and it was so close,
it was literally it was likereally nail biting stuff.
But because they lost at thefinal thing, the devastation,
the fallout, the, the vitriol,the abuse that the players
(34:48):
received just staggering.
And you think this is one ofthe reasons why we develop fear
of success.
Okay, because it's like it'seasier to fail at a lower level
than to keep to keep doing welland fail at a higher level,
because and it's much worse inthat environment for people to
(35:15):
fail to come second you know, ifthey come fourth or fifth or
eighth or whatever, theywouldn't have had the drama,
they wouldn't have the abuse,they wouldn't have anything like
that.
And you, suddenly you look atyou say we are not supporting
people to do their best, we'renot supporting people to do
their best.
And if any of that creeps in atkids level sport we're teaching
(35:37):
kids yeah, fail quickly, failearly, don't let anybody build
up expectations about you oryour performance or what you're
going to do, and that's what weare teaching them.
So we are actually teachingthem fear of success, because if
you go all the way and then youfail at the last hurdle, you're
(35:58):
gonna get punished in a reallyhorrible way.
The police were looking into allthe online abuse that the
players were receiving.
People were arrested, peoplelost their jobs because of the
things that they wrote on socialmedia over the football match,
and the players and the managerreceived terrible abuse as well,
(36:19):
and it's a bit like somebodygoing, say, in american football
, if a team goes to the superbowl and they come in second,
that they get more abuse than ifthey hadn't ever made it to the
Super Bowl in the first place.
So are we doing that to ourkids with the sports?
Are we doing that with our kidsin an academic sense as well,
(36:41):
or are we saying what we shouldalways be saying, which which is
just do your best, and I'mproud of you.
I'm proud of you if you come in, like I always say when I'm a
teacher, as a fitness instructor, I'm always saying to everybody
is show up, you show up and youdo your best, and if you do a
little bit, it's great, if youdo a lot, it's great.
(37:03):
If you can't get that move, itdoesn't matter, you can try
again.
Carrie Lingenfelter (37:11):
You can try again yes, we started very
young, we started very early andthere there are pieces of that.
You see, at kids games.
I think we're much more awareof it than we used to be.
I was interviewing a coachrecently.
He was like a more mindfulcoach and he was talking about
how you focus on the growth thatyou've seen in that season for
(37:34):
yourself.
You don't focus on the wins,you don't focus on winning each
game, you look at the growth foryourself.
So that's what we say to ourkids a lot.
You said try hard.
I like how hard you tried thisgame.
I like how much effort you putinto it.
I can see you worked so hard atthis and I'm so proud of you
for doing what you could, doingyour best.
(37:56):
So that's what we like to sayin our house yeah, yeah, and
it's.
Pearl Howie (38:01):
It's great when you win the things and it's great
if you come first.
It's really nice, but it's notalways the thing that makes
people happiest.
It's funny.
I was thinking about the fearof success and we've got the
Oscars coming up soon and it'sone of those things.
Very often.
You often hear stories frompeople when they've won an Oscar
and they will say that's whenthey've hit their absolute rock
(38:26):
bottom and it's like one ofthose things that happens to a
lot of people when they win anOscar and everybody's like, oh,
you should be so happy.
And that's the moment when theygo.
This doesn't feel the way Ithought it was going to feel.
And it's when they oftenrealise that you know what all
those sacrifices that they'vemade in order to get to this
place were not worth it and itdoesn't fill you up.
(38:50):
It's.
And often you often hearstories about people saying the
day they won the oscar was likethe worst day of their life or
the next day, because that was amoment when they realized that
their life just wasn't it.
It's you're following a pathand when you're really wanting
something and you're going afterit.
And when you're really wantingsomething and you're going after
it and you've got all thesepressure and everybody's saying
yeah, and life will be perfectwhen I win the Oscar and life
(39:13):
will be brilliant, and then theyget there and it's it's just so
empty, it's not real authenticsuccess, it's like an illusion
of success.
And I think that's when peoplerealize that a lot of those
times of false success is whenwe realize that this is not the
life that we want to live.
This is not what we want, andperhaps one of the things we can
(39:37):
do is keep our eye on our kidsand see when they're
experiencing that as well.
Sometimes, when sometimes goodthings happen and you go and you
notice them kind of being a bitdown and it's listen and talk
to them and instead of going youshould be.
Often we kind of go oh, youshould be happy because of this
and you should be happy becauseof that.
And sometimes when we listen,we go, do you realize they've
(39:59):
worked so hard for something andthen they achieve it but
actually it doesn't bring themhappiness or joy because it
wasn't really what they wanted.
And perhaps sometimes it's alsodoing it because they're trying
to please us, because theythink it's important to us, so
it's hey, what's important to me, make my mum happy, make my dad
(40:19):
happy and then they get thereand it's.
It's not enough.
Yeah, because they haven'treally done what they.
In order to achieve this,they've had to give up that
which was actually moreimportant to them.
And, honestly, working at highlevels in finance with people
who have, I've worked with somany people who've got all kinds
(40:40):
of money and state and allkinds of things and it's like
sometimes somebody does a lot toget that really shiny thing the
car, the house, the job, thebusiness whatever it is, and
even the diamond ring, somepeople, the idea of getting
married, and and then there's acrash because it you know what.
(41:04):
That was a trophy.
That wasn't like, it wasn'twhat I wanted, it wasn't
important to me, it was justsomething that I thought would
make me happy or that everybodytold me was going to make me
happy.
And we often see that crashwith people who spend all their
(41:24):
time.
They go on, they're great atschool, college, they go to
university, they get theirdegree, they get their career,
they do all that kind of thing,and then they have depression or
they have a breakdown and we go, but you have everything.
But they didn't get to.
But the thing is, it's like theydidn't get to go and be an
(41:45):
artist, which might be what wastrue to them.
Carrie Lingenfelter (41:47):
It's staying connected, right.
Staying connected to hear whatyou truly want, what's true in
your heart.
Pearl Howie (41:54):
I think it's just really, and it's the same
whether it's kids or anybody inyour life, it's you know what,
it's listening to what's comingfrom them and also just saying
you know, know what, whoever youare authentically, whoever you
are, is I love you.
I, my love is unconditional.
And if you, if you start dating, if you're going out with
(42:18):
somebody, that's great, if itmakes you happy.
But it's what makes you happy,not what I think about it.
It's your business and it'shard because you want, you want
them to be happy and they tellyou they want something and then
you're really encouraging andthen they're like actually, no,
I don't really want that anymore, and you're like okay, okay,
that's okay, that's okay, youcan have, you can do that, you
can do this, that's okay andit's it's.
(42:40):
It's very difficult becausedisappointing your parents can
be very painful, at whatever ageyou are, and sometimes you know
it, your parents can be veryexcited about something you're
doing and the reason you'redoing it is because it's just
it's what, it's who they are,not who you are that I've seen
that a lot too.
Carrie Lingenfelter (43:00):
Yeah, then you're never gonna feel fully
successful in your heart forsure.
Thank you so much, pearl, forall of your wonderful insight,
and I wanted to have you touchwe didn't get to touch on your
virtual retreat that you have.
Yes, did you want to tell us alittle bit about that?
Pearl Howie (43:17):
Yeah, it's quite new and it's a free to access
space and it's really.
It's built and channels all theamazing places that I've been
to in my life some of the mostamazing places and the vibe of a
retreat space, which issomewhere that you can just come
and have the space to beyourself and to do the practice
(43:39):
of just being authenticallyyourself and figuring out who
that is yeah, it's calledRoshanara by Pearl Escapes, and
the translation of that is thelight of the gathering.
So it's a community space sothat you can see each other and
you can.
So, like other social media,you can actually connect with
other people.
So we have a very stringentcode of conduct to keep it
(44:01):
family friendly.
It's not for kids, but it'sfamily friendly, so it's
something you could actually dowith your, with your kids, with
your teenage.
You don't have to hide thelaptop when you want to do some.
If you want to go on that kindof thing and we've also got some
.
I've just been working on aseries of workshops which are
all about finding your authenticsuccess, so it's called
(44:23):
authentic success your way, andthere's seven of those and I'm
just now putting those on andagain free to access so you can
go on and do the workshops andthey're all the videos are
filmed as a retreat, so they'reall filmed around here me
sitting on the beat and in thewoods and in the hotel and to
(44:45):
really give you that sense ofspace and getting away, because
I think so often we need thatperspective, we need to feel as
if we've come away, so that wecan turn around and reflect back
on life, and I think that'swhat retreats are all about is
just trying to give you.
So I know it's not the same ascoming on a real life retreat,
but I know that so many peoplewant to do that, especially this
(45:07):
time of year, and it's verydifficult with time, money, all
that kind of logistics, so Iwanted to give that to people as
much as I can really.
So that's what Roshanara is allabout, and it's based on the
heartbeat app so you canactually download the heartbeat
app and then have Roshanara onyour phone as an app so you can
(45:28):
literally just it's like alittle heart, and then you just
press it and you're straightinto roshanara so you can watch
the video, you know.
So it's great because it's likehaving it, it's like having a
free well-being app.
Um, yeah, so I'm gonna.
I've sent you the link, so it'slike a little invite.
you have to have an invitebecause that's the way they set
it up, so that kind of protectsthe community really.
So you need, like the little,the password.
Carrie Lingenfelter (45:49):
Oh, my, okay, we'll figure out how to
include that in the show notes,cause I think other people would
love that Maybe if they go toyour website.
Is that the best?
Pearl Howie (45:57):
Yeah, if you go to my website, it's pearlhowiecom,
and if you go to contact andjust join my newsletter or you
can join my newsletter onlinkedin as well, and so I'm
sending the invitation obviouslyout to everyone on my
newsletter and that willprobably be on every week.
So you get a newsletter once aweek and so the link will be on
there and then you can gostraight.
And also it's really useful forme if people tell me what they
(46:19):
find works doesn't work.
Still very new, it's about amonth old, but the whole idea is
that it's going to be alsobecause I have a program, fear
of success instructors, sothat's going to come on there as
well.
So, like all the resources forfear of success instructors and
because I think that's the thingis that more we, I just feel
(46:40):
like it's a training thateverybody should have, like all
teachers should have and anybodywho's trying to support people.
Parents, yeah, definitely,because the thing is it's very
simple, really fair success.
Once you see it, it's like oneof those magic puzzles.
Once you see it and you go, ohyeah, and then you can really
support people and help them.
So that's it's all about justtrying to help people feel alive
(47:03):
and just take time out as wellwhen you sometimes you just need
to.
I'm lucky I live down here.
It's so nice, lovely that'sbeautiful.
Carrie Lingenfelter (47:10):
Yeah, you're very lucky.
Thank you so much, pearl.
We'll share that.
We'll share your site and theshow notes today.
Thanks so much for being herewith us, thank you.
Pearl Howie (47:18):
Thank you, it's been lovely.
It's always so nice to chatwith you.
It's just a lovely vibe, thankyou, I appreciate that.
Carrie Lingenfelter (47:25):
Well, that Well, that's a wrap.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Change makers.
This is Carrie, and if youhaven't done a review for us,
five stars and a little fewwords about what you've enjoyed
in our podcast episodes, wewould really appreciate it.
If you guys would like to evermessage me, I would love any
questions you have or anyfeedback.
(47:46):
At info at hearttoheartlifecom,we also have a brand new
website which we're superexcited to share.
It's hearttoheartlifecom.
Thanks so much for tuning inand happy life, happy times.
Changemaker families.
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