June 4, 2025 • 37 mins
Are our kids here to heal us? Renee Boos of the Neurodiverse Community Center joins Carrie to share her incredible journey of raising a demand avoidant, highly intuitive son—and how his sensitivities became a gateway to both of their healing.
Renee shares her transformative journey as a parent of a demand avoidant child who taught her that everything she once viewed as "wrong" could actually be reframed as perfectly right. With raw honesty, she describes how her son's wisdom—expressed remarkably early—led her to question deeply held beliefs about normalcy, success, and what truly matters. "My son spoke at a very young age about how he had come from the nothing and that there were many like him that had chosen to come to this existence at this place in time to reset the balance here," Renee reveals.
The conversation delves into the historical value of highly sensitive people in tribal communities, where they were honored for their ability to alert others to dangers that weren't obvious. Could today's neurodiverse children be serving a similar purpose—guiding humanity back to connection and authenticity? We explore how parents can step into the unknown with an open heart, healing their own wounds to better support their children's natural gifts.
For parents feeling isolated while raising neurodiverse children, this episode offers both validation and hope. Discover why creating spaces where these families can simply be themselves without judgment is revolutionary, and how embracing our children's differences might be the key to our collective evolution.
Join us to transform your perspective on neurodiversity and perhaps discover that what society labels as challenges might actually be your child's—and your—greatest superpowers.
Connect with Renee Boos and the Neurodiverse Community Center:
*Website: https://www.neurodiversitycc.org/
Quiz time! Take my new Spiritual Parent Vibe quiz and meet your magical type:
https://www.tryinteract.com/share/quiz/683e320bf64af70015fae432
New! Conscious Family Travels Channel on YouTube with Carrie:
https://www.youtube.com/@consciousfamilytravels
Connect with Carrie:
*Website: https://hearttoheartlife.com/
*Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespiritualparent
*YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSpiritualParent
*Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/The-Spiritual-Parent/61554482625081
*Email: info@hearttoheartlife.com
**Please remember that the information shared on this podcast is educational in nature and does not constitute licensed mental health advice. If you need such advice, you should speak with a licensed professional about your unique situation. Thanks so much happy listeners.
© 2024-2025 Heart to Heart Life LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Renee Boos (00:01):
I seem to be a magnet to demand avoidant people
, being one myself, and it's mypeople, so I love it.
But a lot of people that cometo my center have that
particular label and I see that,especially the children, they
will not accept anything less.
You know they are demanding thatwe acknowledge a better way of
(00:23):
being.
They will not accept somethingmediocre anymore and thank
goodness.
And if you think back throughtime, you know there were always
way back when, right when wewere in sort of a tribal
existence, let's say there werealways the people that were
highly sensitive, that were, youknow, honored in those groups
of people, because they were thepeople that would alert others
(00:46):
to danger.
They could sense things thatweren't as obvious.
Carrie Lingenfelter (00:51):
Hi Conscious Parents.
It's Keri here and I am herewith a little info about raising
our mindful kids.
I've got some tips and tricksabout breaking free of the box
and becoming who you are andteaching your kids how to do
that.
Along the way, join us Hi thereand welcome back conscious
parents.
I'm so excited.
I have a treat for you today.
I have Renee Bowes here.
(01:18):
She opened a.
She's a change maker mama andI'm so excited to connect with
her.
She opened the NeurodiverseCommunity Center in Lafayette,
colorado, and she is all abouthealing and changing changing
the mindset of neurodiversity.
Did I describe that correctlyfor you, renee?
Renee Boos (01:32):
I think I describe it differently every day, so you
know, yes.
Carrie Lingenfelter (01:35):
Okay, when it comes from the heart, I feel
like it evolves right.
Renee Boos (01:39):
Yeah, for sure yeah.
Carrie Lingenfelter (01:41):
Yeah, so I'm so excited to have you and I
think it's strengths and someof the challenges.
But empowering our kids andfinding labeling them In our
(02:11):
house we call it superpowers ourheightened sensitivities.
Maybe that can sometimes makeit hard to be in the body at
certain times, but also we tryto change the mindset and focus
on the positive pieces of beingso connected to being a human.
Yeah, yeah, so I'm curious,right, being a human being in
(02:34):
our human form, um, with ourhighly sensitive, amazing kids
that came to us, um, what?
What do you guys frame it?
As in your house or in thecommunity?
How do you frame some of thosepieces, those heightened
sensitivities or thoseunderstanding?
(02:55):
I feel like my kids can readthe room, they can read other
people, they're drawn towardscertain situations.
What do you guys frame that?
As in your house?
Renee Boos (03:05):
I think for me you know, it was sort of a blessing
and a curse that I realized veryquickly with my son that I
shared many of the sensitivitiesthat he had, but mine had just
been so heavily masked due tolack of a supportive environment
and, you know, just adultingfor so long.
I had my son at 43 years oldand he's my only child, so I
(03:27):
didn't know anything aboutneurodiversity at that point.
I just thought I was kind of aquirky person, I'd set up a life
that fit me really well, Ithought and I felt like I had a
lot of control over that life.
And then my son came and I waslike wait a minute, this perfect
life isn't perfect for him andand I I'm I'm kind of resonating
(03:50):
with this it felt like hisnervous system was just
vibrating.
You know, it was like tangibleto me and I I was like there's a
familiar hum here, but mine waslike, you know, 20 miles back
down the road and his was rightin my face.
So it was this sort of anawakening process for me.
And then I had a lot ofchallenge with that in terms of,
(04:14):
you know, answering yourquestion.
What did we call it at first?
You know, it felt I'm going tobe honest I had been conditioned
to think that these things,these sensitivities that I had,
were a detriment, and so Ilooked at them like a problem,
initially in myself.
And then, you know, when youhave a child that mirrors some
(04:37):
of the things that you see inyourself as maybe less than
ideal you might think thatthey're less than ideal in a
child, but, very quickly, ideal.
You might think that they'reless than ideal in a child, but
very quickly.
That idea that my son wasperfect.
You know, I had this epiphanyone day holding him and we had a
rough time and he just lookedso peaceful and so happy, which
was kind of rare at that time,and I thought he is so perfect.
(04:59):
You know, I knew it despitefrom the outside world, in our
sort of conditioned environmentand our peer group and my family
and all of those things, welooked nothing like perfection
on those kind of typicalstandards.
But I looked at him and I knewhe was perfect and I realized
that if he was perfect and hecame from me, you know, whatever
(05:24):
that means, I don't know thesedays I'm really wondering about
that and he and I have had lotsof conversations about how we
came to be in this relationshiptogether.
But whatever he was in me andwas out of my body, my meat sack
, and I thought, well, if he'sthat perfect, there might be a
tiny bit of that in me too.
Well, if he's that perfect,there might be a tiny bit of
(05:46):
that in me too.
And it sort of changed the way Isaw him, saw us, saw the
sensitivities that we shared,and it kind of flipped the
script for me, because thethings that I had been
conditioned to think were soproblematic.
I started to see them as gifts.
But I'm not going to lie andsay that that happened
immediately.
It didn't happen easily.
It was sort of a dying to anold way of believing about
(06:07):
things, a total sort of way ofbeing in the world.
But the rebirth is beautifuland so we really, much like you
said, believe that thesesensitivities are superpowers.
And now, with what I'm doing inthe world with the community
center, that was one of the biginspirations for me.
Starting is because when I cameto that realization here in our
(06:27):
home, we were quite isolated andI started to believe that this
was not a unique occurrence,that these were superpowers,
that these sensitivities werebeneficial, and especially at
this time in humanity's sort ofexperience, and so I was given a
message, a literal vision andmeditation to create a place for
(06:48):
people to come together to leaninto the beauty and the
brilliance of thesesensitivities so that they could
be amplified and so that these,these gifts, this energy that
we can tap into, that we canfeel, like you said.
You know, we can read the room,we can sense things.
I think we are like mixed tocertain frequencies so that we
(07:10):
can amplify them together and Ibelieve that it will change the
experience that humanity has inthe world.
You know, and it may be by oneencounter at a time, I'm not
sure it's a great experiment.
So that's why I'm doing whatI'm doing and that's a really
long-winded answer to yourquestion.
But we think you're superpowers,and I see it every day with the
adults, the teens, the youngadults and the children that
(07:33):
come to my space.
It is evident, there is nodoubt in my mind that what
oftentimes the medical modeldeems as a deficiency, in the
same breath could be seen as anextreme strength, a gift,
something that is so needed, andI always say that everything
that I see, that those of us,myself included, that have these
(07:53):
labels, need to thrive.
There hasn't been one exceptionand I've been looking for it.
There has not been oneexception to the fact that these
things are better for all ofhumanity, these ways of being,
this way of life.
There is no doubt in my mind.
So I think it's definitely abeautiful gift, a hard won one.
(08:14):
Sometimes, you know, it's noteasy to be in these bodies with
these sensitivities.
I'm not denying that it is noteasy.
Carrie Lingenfelter (08:22):
You know it's's really interesting.
I think I went through it sound.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
It was a beautiful story andit's interesting because I I was
a speech therapist and anelementary educator beforehand,
so my, my previous educationtaught me to look for the errors
in a person, to help fix thoseerrors.
(08:45):
That's what I was trained to doas a speech therapist right To
diagnose and then treat.
And so I constantly.
When I had my kiddo, my son,who's now turning 10, when he
was first born, I was constantlylooking for what's wrong.
What's wrong?
Why is he crying?
What's wrong, how do I fix it?
And I wanted to label it orfigure it out or diagnose it
(09:07):
every single time.
Whereas now, and so much healingand so much spirituality and
all of these pieces that youkind of mentioned that helped to
get me to where I am now, alsoon a very similar path, using
the podcast, whereas you'reusing a community center.
It's really cool because I'mtrying to share with the world
(09:30):
that these kids are coming in aloud way to help us come back to
some of the basic human pieces,which is connection, knowing
ourselves, slowing down ourlives, being within nature
sometimes, if the kids are inthat zone if we're having a good
day.
But yeah, those pieces thatmaybe you and I couldn't achieve
(09:56):
when we were younger because weweren't allowed to be the high
maintenance kid I think BreneBrown labeled it high
maintenance kid of the 80s, 90s,70s, I think when we weren't
allowed to be like that.
Now we're starting tounderstand and we have people
like you and I out there tryingto say let them be themselves,
let's find their strengths,let's find how to support them
(10:17):
so they can be who they trulyare meant to be here, and we're
learning from them.
So I think that's a beautifulthing.
Renee Boos (10:22):
I think many of them at least.
I'll speak from my experiencewith my son and you know I seem
to be a mad, a magnet to demandavoidant people, being one
myself and it's my, it's mypeople, so I love it.
But a lot of people that cometo my center have that
particular label and I see that,especially the children, they
will not accept anything less.
(10:45):
You know, they, they aredemanding that we acknowledge
better way of being.
They will not accept somethingmediocre anymore and thank
goodness.
And if you think back throughtime, you know there were always
way back when, right when wewere in sort of a tribal
existence, let's say there werealways the people that were
(11:05):
highly sensitive, that were, youknow, honored in those groups
of people because they were thepeople that would alert others
to danger.
They could sense things thatweren't as obvious.
And so I think that our kidsfunction in much that way, you
know, to try to direct humanityback to what it means to be in
these meat sacks, these bodies,for this period of time on this
(11:28):
planet, connected.
I mean, I'm loosely tetheredmost of the time, but I had to
realize I am here in this body,whether I like it or not.
This thing doesn't work rightfor me a lot of the times or how
I want it to, but it's myresonator, it's my vehicle for
this time and I need to honorthat, and I think that's a big
(11:49):
challenge for a lot of peoplewith these labels.
You know my son spoke at a veryyoung age about how he had come
from the nothing and that therewere many like him that had
chosen to come to this existenceat this place in time to reset
the balance here, and thatpeople here were wanting to
eradicate darkness.
(12:16):
But that was a mistake, becausewithout darkness you can't know
light, and that it was about thebalance between the two.
And he spoke about howdifficult it was to come into
these bodies because they didn'twork right and the language
could never communicate what hereally wanted to say and he was
like an Oxford scholar at oneand a half, but the language,
you know, there was no word forwhat he needed to communicate
and so you know, it was like allof this high vibrational
(12:37):
frequency trying to downgradeinto this material manifestation
and it's difficult.
And we look at these kids likethey're broken because they're
not assimilating into thisreality, this material world,
this material vessel.
But they're not broken, it'sjust a difficult, it's a
(12:59):
generous and difficult challengefor them, you know I mean if
you think about it.
As hard as it is to be a parentwith a child that has a lot of
needs.
And believe me, I know my sondidn't sleep more than two and a
half hours until he was six anda half and I had to hold him
for that sleep.
So I slept none.
I literally almost died.
(13:20):
But you know as hard as thesethings were for me.
I had a son who could articulateat a young age that his body
would not accept him, and ithurt, you know so yeah it's hard
to be a parent, but I thinkthat there are some very special
individuals that are here atthis time that are making a huge
(13:44):
sacrifice to be sort of those,those souls, those beings that
alert us to what is not workinghere and are attempting to bring
humanity back into balance.
Carrie Lingenfelter (13:56):
That's such a beautiful way to describe it.
Thank you so much, and I can'tbelieve how in tune your son was
able to express himself.
Renee Boos (14:06):
Beautiful, he told me once.
So prior to doing the communitycenter, I ran a fairly large
interior design firm.
I designed hotels and I woulddesign like 40 boutique hotels a
year.
So you know I had a lot ofstaff at a purchasing firm.
I felt like I was pretty goodat all of the things that a type
a person wants to be good atright.
(14:27):
And so then I have this kid andI can't even take a shower.
I can't sleep.
We're like barely surviving.
One of us isn't wearing pantsthat wasn't me, but you know
that's how it was.
I was about ready to get rid ofmine too, because I wasn't
leaving the house and.
I was holding him, you know, inour chair, where we would sit,
and I would attempt to get himto sleep, which was so
(14:48):
ridiculous because the kiddidn't need to sleep.
He had stuff to do during thenight all these hours.
I just thought, you know, youneed your eight hours or you're
going to die.
Well, this kid was busy, he wasdoing something and he didn't
need to sleep.
So I would hold him and try tocajole him to sleep.
And he looked at me and he hecalled me Renee, because when he
was not even three, he saidI'm'm not gonna call you mom
(15:09):
anymore.
And at this point he had liketwo sides to him.
One was like an Oxford scholarand the other one was a little
surly.
So I was hoping that what hewas gonna call me was gonna come
from the one side, not theother.
And I said so, okay, fingerscrossed, what are you gonna call
me then?
And he said well, I've noticedyou don't say child.
Would you like breakfast?
(15:29):
Child, would you like to comedownstairs?
You use my name, so I'm goingto use yours out of respect,
just like wobbled away.
And I was like okay, well, thatmakes sense.
This is going to be a fun life.
You're going to break a lot ofsocial norms and I can't argue
with you.
But he said you know, renee, youare very inefficient.
And I said you know, I feelreally.
(15:50):
But you should have seen melike five years ago, man, I was
good.
And he said you think I'm sosmart.
And I said I know you are sosmart.
He said it is not me, renee, Ijust know where to go to get the
answers.
You might notice I get a littlequiet and look into my source,
where every answer resides.
You, on the other hand, you'relooking outside of you and you
(16:16):
act like your answers areattached to you by heavy chains
and you spend all of your energytrying to pull them in.
And I'm sitting there with amouth wide open.
Wow, looking at a kid.
That's not even four or five,probably not even five.
At that point he was probablyfour.
Okay.
Carrie Lingenfelter (16:32):
Wow.
Renee Boos (16:33):
And wondering where this wisdom came from.
You know.
And that's when I decided tonot care if he ever wore pants
again, ever ate anything otherthan plain noodles.
I just, you know, I was like Idon't.
These are.
These concerns are not theconcerns that we should have.
He is concerned about the thingsthat matter and I'm spending a
(16:57):
lot of my life, force, energy onthese things that do not matter
at all.
So he's been a brilliantteacher for me and really
changed the course of my life ina huge way and I am very
grateful and I almost died beinghis parent.
So you know there's that.
Carrie Lingenfelter (17:16):
Well, I'm glad.
I'm glad you maybe have gottensleep since then.
Oh yeah, I'm glad you're up.
Renee Boos (17:22):
I'm back at it.
It's him too.
Like 13 hours a day, it'sawesome.
Carrie Lingenfelter (17:26):
Wow, that's amazing, that's amazing, wow.
So that's quite a journey tohave gotten to that place.
I was gonna, you know, for Ifeel like I'm in a lot of
telepathy or several telepathygroups now on Facebook, after
telepathy tapes came out andkind of I feel like it's
breaking down that box for us,right, it's really helping us
(17:47):
with what.
Your goal is similar to my goalin connecting with these
families and trying to helpfocus, focus on what we're
looking at and we're coming fromour hearts and heart space.
I'm finding there's parents inthese groups and they're asking
how to connect with themselves,how to connect with their kids.
They they feel like a telepathypiece is a piece that they're
(18:08):
seeing.
What would you say to familiesthat are starting to experience
this, starting to mold, like toopen themselves up to these
ideas and pieces?
What would you say that helpedyou?
Renee Boos (18:18):
I think my first, like the strongest advice I
could give someone, is to let goof your conditioned beliefs
about what is real.
Let it go, because you canstill come back to that.
But if you can open yourself tobelieve that potentially more
is possible than what you'vebeen conditioned to believe,
(18:38):
there is no harm in that.
There's only possibility andpotential.
And so I would say, just beopen and to let go of this.
I think this goes hand in hand.
You know, when we try to holdon to something that we think is
true, I think oftentimes atleast I'll speak for myself it
comes from a place of fear.
You know, we don't want to bevulnerable.
(18:59):
We humans don't want to bevulnerable and we are afraid of
so many things.
And if we can let go, even forjust brief periods of time, of
that fear and become a littlebit vulnerable and that is that
is something that was verydifficult for me, because I had
a pretty traumatic childhood andI had armored myself pretty
(19:20):
well and I was really good atcontrolling things, because that
gave me this sense of safety,and so this idea of
vulnerability was something thatI didn't even want to interface
with.
But I have learned that theunknown.
You know so when you don't wantto be vulnerable and you're
afraid, you want to know things.
You don't like the unknowncommon sort of trend in our
(19:42):
community with these labels,right, yes, and so the unknown
is terrifying at times, but whatI have found in my meditation
practice really led me to this,this understanding, and, you
know, tremendous personalhealing occurred.
I know that the unknown holdsmuch more promise than anything
(20:04):
detrimental to me.
Now I am certain.
And if I'm not willing to stepinto the unknown, then there is
so much potential that I ammissing.
And if I'm not willing to stepinto the unknown, then there is
so much potential that I ammissing.
And so back to your questionfor these parents step into the
unknown, just try it, you know.
I believe it is safe.
(20:25):
I have found it to be nothingbut safe in these instances.
There is a beauty there.
There there is love, there isthe potential for the kind of
connection that I think we werein this experience for, yeah,
and our children can be ourguides which is, you know, sort
of changing that conditionedidea that as a parent, you're
(20:46):
here to guide your child.
As sure, in some things themundane, you know you're going
to teach them how to drive andhow to hold a fork and all of
that right.
But I think that our childrenhave the potential to guide us
in these other ways, a hugepotential to do that if we will.
If we will honor what they'rebringing and their knowledge,
(21:11):
humble ourselves a little bit,step into the unknown with an
open heart.
Carrie Lingenfelter (21:17):
Yes, embracing the unknown can be
such a process to get to right.
There's so much healing becauseyou have to look at the inner
child pieces as a parent.
What is my need for thiscontrol?
How much conditioning have Ihad myself as maybe a high
maintenance kid that wasn'tallowed to be like that as a kid
(21:37):
, or maybe had the PDA yourselfas a kid and didn't realize it,
or we're a highly sensitive kid.
It's.
It's really interesting.
I've started to fully embracethe unknown and I feel like as
you do it more and more, itbecomes so much easier and
you're like delighted by whatcomes to fruition and it's like
(22:00):
whoa, I didn't even expect this,I didn't even think this was a
possibility, I didn't even knowthis would come my way, or
things that you hadn't evenimagined that come alive.
So there's definitely.
Have you had part of thathealing journey for yourself?
I don't know.
I know it's probably a long.
My healing journey was verylong as well and I was raised
(22:20):
spiritually.
I had a good, you know, apretty stable childhood.
There was a lot of control inmy childhood but I know I see
why I was in so much controlbecause I had to be in control.
Because I was in control.
There's a lot of control tobreak for us and we still use
those tools to come back whenwe're feeling that we're trying
to control again.
(22:40):
So, yeah, we're human, we're inthis human, this meat body, I
think you call it.
Renee Boos (22:45):
Meat sack, Meat sack .
I'm trying to be nicer aboutmine.
I'm like I actually feel youand like you now, but you are
still a meat sack.
Sometimes I'm like come onalready.
This is so limiting, let's geton with it here.
Carrie Lingenfelter (23:01):
Those are my children.
They're both like.
I am limited in this meat sack.
I'm ready to be 18.
I'm ready to do my passion inlife.
I'm ready for my dream.
Like they feel very limited atseven and almost 10.
They're like I'm done.
I'm ready to be an adult mom.
Why, why isn't this goingfaster?
Renee Boos (23:19):
Yeah Well.
I am an adult and I'm ready tobe something else.
So exactly what that is.
But I'm trying.
I'm spending a lot of timegetting this meat sack to
resonate at a higher frequency,that's for sure, because I know
there's more potential and it'sholding me back sometimes.
Carrie Lingenfelter (23:37):
I love it, yeah, definitely I feel it this
is great, yeah, so it was like aquestion was no worries, I was
thinking you don't have to shareall the pieces that you went
through.
But I think I think for me Icame when my son was born.
I was really trying to controlthe situation.
I had told my husband I'm aspeech therapist, I'm an
(23:59):
elementary educator, I got this,I know this, I can do it.
I don't.
You know, you're good, you canbackseat.
But as soon as he was born andlooked in our eyes, we were like
holy smokes, our world isshaken, I know nothing.
And then he, my husband, saidhe's beautiful, carrie.
And he turned and looked in hiseyes and he was like wow, we
don't know anything.
Both of us were just rocked toour core.
Yeah, from that.
(24:20):
And then, yeah, we have alittle bit of that.
You know the demand avoidanceand the oppositional force as
well.
It's like the more we push, thestronger the pushback came.
So there was a lot of healingjourney for both my partner and
I to figure out how to be moreof a cooperative participant
with our son, to hear him toconnect.
Did you feel like you had toheal pieces of you and your
(24:44):
journey to get where you're at?
Renee Boos (24:46):
Yeah, most definitely.
We are a family of three,autistic, demand avoidant
individuals, and I'm also ADHD,so I've got a sort of
characteristic there, and wedidn't know anything about any
of this when we started thisjourney, and so it was quite a
learning experience for us.
This desire for control wasvery strong in all three of us.
(25:07):
Even the tiny infant decidedthat he was going to sort of
direct how things were going,and we were strong oppositional
forces initially.
It didn't take us very long, Ithink, as I talked to others, to
come to terms with the factthat that wasn't going to work.
I mean, for me it was prettyquick to.
(25:28):
I think it was that resonancethat I could feel.
I'm a very energeticallysensitive person, highly
intuitive, I channel sometimes.
Now I think I'd been doing itfor a long time and just didn't
know what it was, and so I wouldget these messages that would
help me to understand what myson needed, and and it was
(25:49):
actually what I needed toounderstand what my son needed
and and it was actually what Ineeded too.
And so it was a.
It was a long.
It was a long and short healingjourney.
I think mine happened.
I had to lose almost everythingin that journey and I lost my
business.
I lost friends and family.
We were extremely isolated.
I didn't leave my house formore than an hour or two a week
(26:10):
for like six years when I'd beentraveling you know, 25 days a
month with my previous career.
So I had to sit with myself andwith my son in a home alone and
sort of acknowledge what waspainful, what I was resisting.
I had to think about why my sonwas relentless.
He is the strongest person I'veever encountered and I am no
(26:35):
weakling.
But, that kid.
He's amazing.
He will not accept mediocrityin anything, and so I wasn't
really allowed to take a longtime to heal.
I was forced to heal quicklyand I received these drops of
wisdom, you know, seemingly outof nowhere, from my son, which
were absolute gifts.
You know, they would come atjust the right time, Just when I
(26:58):
was feeling the most broken.
I would get some insight thatcame from don't know where,
because we were not.
I grew up Catholic and I wasnot practicing, and so I didn't
know anything about anythingthat he was talking about.
But he would say things andthen I would.
I would feel that they werecorrect, Like I would feel the
(27:21):
energy behind what he was saying, and then I would look into it
and I would be like my goodness,this is in like five spiritual
texts.
You know, I mean no doubt thisis no joke, this is truth here
and I have a little messenger, arelentless one, and so I'm
going to listen.
But yeah, it was.
I got very sick, I think, fromjust.
(27:43):
I think it was sort of areconditioning of my meat sack,
to be honest.
Yep, it dissipated a lot,almost to the point where of no
return, and then it transformedpretty miraculously and so, as
scary as that was, for me it wasa true healing.
I remember I had a moment whereI was, where I was feeling like
(28:04):
everything that was wrong Ilove I hate that word now but
then I was using a lot right andwrong, good and bad.
Everything was wrong.
I love I hate that word now butthen I was using a lot right
and wrong, good and bad,everything that was wrong about
us was my doing, my fault.
And then I had this epiphany, inthis moment of desperation and
meditation, that everything thatI was thinking was wrong could
(28:25):
also be framed as everythingthat was actually right, and it
was just a matter of perspective, kind of like my son spoke
about darkness and light.
It's a matter of perspective.
Carrie Lingenfelter (28:36):
Yes.
Renee Boos (28:37):
And so my perspective changed many times
and like, with these you knowacknowledgements of this fact
and then my healing journeywould progress.
So it was.
It's been an amazing.
My son's turning 10 next monthand it has been an amazing 10
years.
I tell him I'm so thankful forhim because I was like a
(29:00):
millionth of the person I wasbefore I met him.
Yeah, you know, I'm so grateful, very grateful.
Carrie Lingenfelter (29:07):
Yes, yeah, I.
It's really interesting.
The gifts that we receiveraising these amazing kids and
the challenges that we gothrough sometimes can bring us
to such a beautiful place.
As you described, hardestthings for my partner, my
husband and I, has been losingfriendships, feeling isolated.
(29:33):
I think what you're doing withbuilding a community is really
special, because I think so manyparents of neurodiverse kids
can feel so isolated, especiallyif you have kids who maybe mask
outside in society.
In school my kids they go to asocial-emotional-focused school,
(29:55):
project-based learning schoolnear us and every time I mention
things to teachers they're likewhat?
I never see that.
So that's how my kids are,where they're holding it
together during the day.
That's how my kids are wherethey're holding it together
during the day.
But then at home it can feel soisolating because it looks like
the perfect picture fromoutside.
Renee Boos (30:18):
I didn't experience that as much because my son
really never had to mask becausehe's been unschooled from the
beginning.
Carrie Lingenfelter (30:25):
Yeah.
Renee Boos (30:25):
So because you know it was not my intention
initially, I did not even knowsuch a thing existed, but it's
what he needed, so I wasfortunate enough that I could do
that.
The NCC was really born of thatsame idea.
Like so often, our children andus as their parents, our family
unit we're forced to presentourselves in a way that's
(30:47):
acceptable to those around us,present ourselves in a way
that's acceptable to thosearound us, and sometimes those
around us.
What works for them doesn't workfor us or what they think works
for them definitely does notwork for us, and so, like you
said, it can be very isolatingand my concept, my sort of my
inspiration for the NCC wasthere are many places that you
(31:08):
can go, especially if youacquired labels in life, to get
fixed, to work on yourchallenges right, and we all
come into this meat sack with abucket full of challenges and
hopefully, I think, like 25buckets full of gifts.
But I think we're reallyconditioned to look at that one
bucket full of challenges andwork on that before we really
(31:29):
focus on these gifts.
The gifts are taken for granted.
The challenges are where thefocus goes and oftentimes for
our children they have, you know, they're in five, six, seven
therapies a week and they'refocusing on all of these
challenges and they don't havemuch time to lean into their
gifts because they're masking soheavily that when they come
home and have some freedom, it'sjust meltdown, you know, let it
(31:50):
all out time.
So, it is isolating.
Yeah, so I thought with the NCCI'd like to create sort of a
home away from home for people,where they can come in with
their bucket full of challenges.
But we're going to, we're goingto ignore that one when we're
together and you bring your 15buckets full of gifts and let's
dip into those things and let'sdo them together with no
(32:11):
judgment, however you want to dothem.
So when we have an event at thencc, I might call it like art
night.
But what happens at art nightis someone takes a nap,
someone's hungry, so we cook inthe kitchen.
Somebody else wants to stargazein the backyard.
Someone else is showing offtheir car that's powered by
depleted uranium in the frontparking lot.
(32:33):
Someone might make a piece ofart, but there's no like
conscripted idea of what that is.
I mean, someone conjoined threestuffed animals the other day
and that was their artexperience.
It doesn't matter, we just cometogether and we do what we wish
, or nothing, or somecombination of all of it, in
(32:54):
non-judgment of one another.
Yes, I try to hold thefrequency of love in that
container.
Carrie Lingenfelter (33:01):
You know just the idea of this beautiful
acceptance that we all deserveyes, you know, as a parent
raising kids that areneurodiverse, it was so
beautiful to come to your centerand we came on the opening day
to check it out, and my husbandand I.
It was really interestingbecause we both said, wow, I
(33:22):
don't feel like I'm trying torestrain my kids, I'm trying to
keep them in the box thatsociety expects them to look
like.
Right now, I feel safe.
Right now.
Both my husband and I said wefeel safe for our kids.
They can act the way they want,they can behave the way they
want, they can be free.
And we felt free as adults, asthe parents.
(33:45):
It was really cool.
You did a wonderful wonderfuljob.
Renee Boos (33:48):
That's what's happening and I can say that
things have evolvedsignificantly since that opening
day there has.
There is definitely thispalpable feeling, and I'm not
the one saying this it's amazingpeople come in thinking it's a
retail store or something.
So I don't have enough moneyfor a great sign and I'm not
maybe not even going to put oneup, because it's awesome that
(34:10):
random people will come in andthey'll step like five feet in
the door and they'll go what isthis place?
What is, what are you doinghere?
yeah, it's beautiful my gosh, itfeels so wonderful and they're
perplexed and I tell them, andthey know, then they're in tears
and they want to volunteer.
And then they tell me that youknow, maybe this're in tears and
they want to volunteer.
And then they tell me that, youknow, maybe this is their
(34:31):
neurotype, they're curious aboutit.
And there's definitely theconcept, the message I was given
and I just had the containerand enough crazy to try to do it
with no money and you know, nohelp.
So you know that's it.
But you know that's my MO, solet's do that, let's give it a
(34:51):
go.
It has done exactly what I wastold it needed to do.
Carrie Lingenfelter (34:56):
For sure it is a beautiful experiment about
what is possible so much forsharing your journey and your
family and how you've found thiswhole piece of you, how you
(35:22):
found NCC, how you followed thispath that you were led along.
I love the courage you had todo all of that and thank you for
sharing your Changemakerjourney with us.
It was beautiful to hear.
Renee Boos (35:28):
Thank you.
Thank you for giving me thechance and thank you for what
you're doing.
It's so wonderful that we canall now come together and just
openly share.
It's such a gift, you know.
It's what we learn from eachother's lived experience, I
believe far surpasses anythingthat we can find elsewhere.
(35:48):
You know, we are meant to helpeach other and by sharing our
stories, I think we do that.
Carrie Lingenfelter (35:54):
Yes, yes, it's beautiful, so it continues
on the path.
Thank you, renee.
Yeah, thanks.
Well, that's a wrap.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Changemakers.
This is Keri, and if youhaven't done a review for us
five stars and a little fewwords about what you've enjoyed
in our podcast episodes we wouldreally appreciate it.
If you guys would like to evermessage me, I would love any
(36:16):
questions you have or anyfeedback at info at
hearttoheartlifecom.
We also have a brand newwebsite which we're super
excited to share it'shearttoheartlifecom.
Thanks so much for tuning inand happy life, happy times.
Changemaker families.
Bye.
I seem to be a magnet to demand avoidant people
, being one myself, and it's mypeople, so I love it.
But a lot of people that cometo my center have that
particular label and I see that,especially the children, they
will not accept anything less.
You know they are demanding thatwe acknowledge a better way of
(00:23):
being.
They will not accept somethingmediocre anymore and thank
goodness.
And if you think back throughtime, you know there were always
way back when, right when wewere in sort of a tribal
existence, let's say there werealways the people that were
highly sensitive, that were, youknow, honored in those groups
of people, because they were thepeople that would alert others
(00:46):
to danger.
They could sense things thatweren't as obvious.
Carrie Lingenfelter (00:51):
Hi Conscious Parents.
It's Keri here and I am herewith a little info about raising
our mindful kids.
I've got some tips and tricksabout breaking free of the box
and becoming who you are andteaching your kids how to do
that.
Along the way, join us Hi thereand welcome back conscious
parents.
I'm so excited.
I have a treat for you today.
I have Renee Bowes here.
(01:18):
She opened a.
She's a change maker mama andI'm so excited to connect with
her.
She opened the NeurodiverseCommunity Center in Lafayette,
colorado, and she is all abouthealing and changing changing
the mindset of neurodiversity.
Did I describe that correctlyfor you, renee?
Renee Boos (01:32):
I think I describe it differently every day, so you
know, yes.
Carrie Lingenfelter (01:35):
Okay, when it comes from the heart, I feel
like it evolves right.
Renee Boos (01:39):
Yeah, for sure yeah.
Carrie Lingenfelter (01:41):
Yeah, so I'm so excited to have you and I
think it's strengths and someof the challenges.
But empowering our kids andfinding labeling them In our
(02:11):
house we call it superpowers ourheightened sensitivities.
Maybe that can sometimes makeit hard to be in the body at
certain times, but also we tryto change the mindset and focus
on the positive pieces of beingso connected to being a human.
Yeah, yeah, so I'm curious,right, being a human being in
(02:34):
our human form, um, with ourhighly sensitive, amazing kids
that came to us, um, what?
What do you guys frame it?
As in your house or in thecommunity?
How do you frame some of thosepieces, those heightened
sensitivities or thoseunderstanding?
(02:55):
I feel like my kids can readthe room, they can read other
people, they're drawn towardscertain situations.
What do you guys frame that?
As in your house?
Renee Boos (03:05):
I think for me you know, it was sort of a blessing
and a curse that I realized veryquickly with my son that I
shared many of the sensitivitiesthat he had, but mine had just
been so heavily masked due tolack of a supportive environment
and, you know, just adultingfor so long.
I had my son at 43 years oldand he's my only child, so I
(03:27):
didn't know anything aboutneurodiversity at that point.
I just thought I was kind of aquirky person, I'd set up a life
that fit me really well, Ithought and I felt like I had a
lot of control over that life.
And then my son came and I waslike wait a minute, this perfect
life isn't perfect for him andand I I'm I'm kind of resonating
(03:50):
with this it felt like hisnervous system was just
vibrating.
You know, it was like tangibleto me and I I was like there's a
familiar hum here, but mine waslike, you know, 20 miles back
down the road and his was rightin my face.
So it was this sort of anawakening process for me.
And then I had a lot ofchallenge with that in terms of,
(04:14):
you know, answering yourquestion.
What did we call it at first?
You know, it felt I'm going tobe honest I had been conditioned
to think that these things,these sensitivities that I had,
were a detriment, and so Ilooked at them like a problem,
initially in myself.
And then, you know, when youhave a child that mirrors some
(04:37):
of the things that you see inyourself as maybe less than
ideal you might think thatthey're less than ideal in a
child, but, very quickly, ideal.
You might think that they'reless than ideal in a child, but
very quickly.
That idea that my son wasperfect.
You know, I had this epiphanyone day holding him and we had a
rough time and he just lookedso peaceful and so happy, which
was kind of rare at that time,and I thought he is so perfect.
(04:59):
You know, I knew it despitefrom the outside world, in our
sort of conditioned environmentand our peer group and my family
and all of those things, welooked nothing like perfection
on those kind of typicalstandards.
But I looked at him and I knewhe was perfect and I realized
that if he was perfect and hecame from me, you know, whatever
(05:24):
that means, I don't know thesedays I'm really wondering about
that and he and I have had lotsof conversations about how we
came to be in this relationshiptogether.
But whatever he was in me andwas out of my body, my meat sack
, and I thought, well, if he'sthat perfect, there might be a
tiny bit of that in me too.
Well, if he's that perfect,there might be a tiny bit of
(05:46):
that in me too.
And it sort of changed the way Isaw him, saw us, saw the
sensitivities that we shared,and it kind of flipped the
script for me, because thethings that I had been
conditioned to think were soproblematic.
I started to see them as gifts.
But I'm not going to lie andsay that that happened
immediately.
It didn't happen easily.
It was sort of a dying to anold way of believing about
(06:07):
things, a total sort of way ofbeing in the world.
But the rebirth is beautifuland so we really, much like you
said, believe that thesesensitivities are superpowers.
And now, with what I'm doing inthe world with the community
center, that was one of the biginspirations for me.
Starting is because when I cameto that realization here in our
(06:27):
home, we were quite isolated andI started to believe that this
was not a unique occurrence,that these were superpowers,
that these sensitivities werebeneficial, and especially at
this time in humanity's sort ofexperience, and so I was given a
message, a literal vision andmeditation to create a place for
(06:48):
people to come together to leaninto the beauty and the
brilliance of thesesensitivities so that they could
be amplified and so that these,these gifts, this energy that
we can tap into, that we canfeel, like you said.
You know, we can read the room,we can sense things.
I think we are like mixed tocertain frequencies so that we
(07:10):
can amplify them together and Ibelieve that it will change the
experience that humanity has inthe world.
You know, and it may be by oneencounter at a time, I'm not
sure it's a great experiment.
So that's why I'm doing whatI'm doing and that's a really
long-winded answer to yourquestion.
But we think you're superpowers,and I see it every day with the
adults, the teens, the youngadults and the children that
(07:33):
come to my space.
It is evident, there is nodoubt in my mind that what
oftentimes the medical modeldeems as a deficiency, in the
same breath could be seen as anextreme strength, a gift,
something that is so needed, andI always say that everything
that I see, that those of us,myself included, that have these
(07:53):
labels, need to thrive.
There hasn't been one exceptionand I've been looking for it.
There has not been oneexception to the fact that these
things are better for all ofhumanity, these ways of being,
this way of life.
There is no doubt in my mind.
So I think it's definitely abeautiful gift, a hard won one.
(08:14):
Sometimes, you know, it's noteasy to be in these bodies with
these sensitivities.
I'm not denying that it is noteasy.
Carrie Lingenfelter (08:22):
You know it's's really interesting.
I think I went through it sound.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
It was a beautiful story andit's interesting because I I was
a speech therapist and anelementary educator beforehand,
so my, my previous educationtaught me to look for the errors
in a person, to help fix thoseerrors.
(08:45):
That's what I was trained to doas a speech therapist right To
diagnose and then treat.
And so I constantly.
When I had my kiddo, my son,who's now turning 10, when he
was first born, I was constantlylooking for what's wrong.
What's wrong?
Why is he crying?
What's wrong, how do I fix it?
And I wanted to label it orfigure it out or diagnose it
(09:07):
every single time.
Whereas now, and so much healingand so much spirituality and
all of these pieces that youkind of mentioned that helped to
get me to where I am now, alsoon a very similar path, using
the podcast, whereas you'reusing a community center.
It's really cool because I'mtrying to share with the world
(09:30):
that these kids are coming in aloud way to help us come back to
some of the basic human pieces,which is connection, knowing
ourselves, slowing down ourlives, being within nature
sometimes, if the kids are inthat zone if we're having a good
day.
But yeah, those pieces thatmaybe you and I couldn't achieve
(09:56):
when we were younger because weweren't allowed to be the high
maintenance kid I think BreneBrown labeled it high
maintenance kid of the 80s, 90s,70s, I think when we weren't
allowed to be like that.
Now we're starting tounderstand and we have people
like you and I out there tryingto say let them be themselves,
let's find their strengths,let's find how to support them
(10:17):
so they can be who they trulyare meant to be here, and we're
learning from them.
So I think that's a beautifulthing.
Renee Boos (10:22):
I think many of them at least.
I'll speak from my experiencewith my son and you know I seem
to be a mad, a magnet to demandavoidant people, being one
myself and it's my, it's mypeople, so I love it.
But a lot of people that cometo my center have that
particular label and I see that,especially the children, they
will not accept anything less.
(10:45):
You know, they, they aredemanding that we acknowledge
better way of being.
They will not accept somethingmediocre anymore and thank
goodness.
And if you think back throughtime, you know there were always
way back when, right when wewere in sort of a tribal
existence, let's say there werealways the people that were
(11:05):
highly sensitive, that were, youknow, honored in those groups
of people because they were thepeople that would alert others
to danger.
They could sense things thatweren't as obvious.
And so I think that our kidsfunction in much that way, you
know, to try to direct humanityback to what it means to be in
these meat sacks, these bodies,for this period of time on this
(11:28):
planet, connected.
I mean, I'm loosely tetheredmost of the time, but I had to
realize I am here in this body,whether I like it or not.
This thing doesn't work rightfor me a lot of the times or how
I want it to, but it's myresonator, it's my vehicle for
this time and I need to honorthat, and I think that's a big
(11:49):
challenge for a lot of peoplewith these labels.
You know my son spoke at a veryyoung age about how he had come
from the nothing and that therewere many like him that had
chosen to come to this existenceat this place in time to reset
the balance here, and thatpeople here were wanting to
eradicate darkness.
(12:16):
But that was a mistake, becausewithout darkness you can't know
light, and that it was about thebalance between the two.
And he spoke about howdifficult it was to come into
these bodies because they didn'twork right and the language
could never communicate what hereally wanted to say and he was
like an Oxford scholar at oneand a half, but the language,
you know, there was no word forwhat he needed to communicate
and so you know, it was like allof this high vibrational
(12:37):
frequency trying to downgradeinto this material manifestation
and it's difficult.
And we look at these kids likethey're broken because they're
not assimilating into thisreality, this material world,
this material vessel.
But they're not broken, it'sjust a difficult, it's a
(12:59):
generous and difficult challengefor them, you know I mean if
you think about it.
As hard as it is to be a parentwith a child that has a lot of
needs.
And believe me, I know my sondidn't sleep more than two and a
half hours until he was six anda half and I had to hold him
for that sleep.
So I slept none.
I literally almost died.
(13:20):
But you know as hard as thesethings were for me.
I had a son who could articulateat a young age that his body
would not accept him, and ithurt, you know so yeah it's hard
to be a parent, but I thinkthat there are some very special
individuals that are here atthis time that are making a huge
(13:44):
sacrifice to be sort of those,those souls, those beings that
alert us to what is not workinghere and are attempting to bring
humanity back into balance.
Carrie Lingenfelter (13:56):
That's such a beautiful way to describe it.
Thank you so much, and I can'tbelieve how in tune your son was
able to express himself.
Renee Boos (14:06):
Beautiful, he told me once.
So prior to doing the communitycenter, I ran a fairly large
interior design firm.
I designed hotels and I woulddesign like 40 boutique hotels a
year.
So you know I had a lot ofstaff at a purchasing firm.
I felt like I was pretty goodat all of the things that a type
a person wants to be good atright.
(14:27):
And so then I have this kid andI can't even take a shower.
I can't sleep.
We're like barely surviving.
One of us isn't wearing pantsthat wasn't me, but you know
that's how it was.
I was about ready to get rid ofmine too, because I wasn't
leaving the house and.
I was holding him, you know, inour chair, where we would sit,
and I would attempt to get himto sleep, which was so
(14:48):
ridiculous because the kiddidn't need to sleep.
He had stuff to do during thenight all these hours.
I just thought, you know, youneed your eight hours or you're
going to die.
Well, this kid was busy, he wasdoing something and he didn't
need to sleep.
So I would hold him and try tocajole him to sleep.
And he looked at me and he hecalled me Renee, because when he
was not even three, he saidI'm'm not gonna call you mom
(15:09):
anymore.
And at this point he had liketwo sides to him.
One was like an Oxford scholarand the other one was a little
surly.
So I was hoping that what hewas gonna call me was gonna come
from the one side, not theother.
And I said so, okay, fingerscrossed, what are you gonna call
me then?
And he said well, I've noticedyou don't say child.
Would you like breakfast?
(15:29):
Child, would you like to comedownstairs?
You use my name, so I'm goingto use yours out of respect,
just like wobbled away.
And I was like okay, well, thatmakes sense.
This is going to be a fun life.
You're going to break a lot ofsocial norms and I can't argue
with you.
But he said you know, renee, youare very inefficient.
And I said you know, I feelreally.
(15:50):
But you should have seen melike five years ago, man, I was
good.
And he said you think I'm sosmart.
And I said I know you are sosmart.
He said it is not me, renee, Ijust know where to go to get the
answers.
You might notice I get a littlequiet and look into my source,
where every answer resides.
You, on the other hand, you'relooking outside of you and you
(16:16):
act like your answers areattached to you by heavy chains
and you spend all of your energytrying to pull them in.
And I'm sitting there with amouth wide open.
Wow, looking at a kid.
That's not even four or five,probably not even five.
At that point he was probablyfour.
Okay.
Carrie Lingenfelter (16:32):
Wow.
Renee Boos (16:33):
And wondering where this wisdom came from.
You know.
And that's when I decided tonot care if he ever wore pants
again, ever ate anything otherthan plain noodles.
I just, you know, I was like Idon't.
These are.
These concerns are not theconcerns that we should have.
He is concerned about the thingsthat matter and I'm spending a
(16:57):
lot of my life, force, energy onthese things that do not matter
at all.
So he's been a brilliantteacher for me and really
changed the course of my life ina huge way and I am very
grateful and I almost died beinghis parent.
So you know there's that.
Carrie Lingenfelter (17:16):
Well, I'm glad.
I'm glad you maybe have gottensleep since then.
Oh yeah, I'm glad you're up.
Renee Boos (17:22):
I'm back at it.
It's him too.
Like 13 hours a day, it'sawesome.
Carrie Lingenfelter (17:26):
Wow, that's amazing, that's amazing, wow.
So that's quite a journey tohave gotten to that place.
I was gonna, you know, for Ifeel like I'm in a lot of
telepathy or several telepathygroups now on Facebook, after
telepathy tapes came out andkind of I feel like it's
breaking down that box for us,right, it's really helping us
(17:47):
with what.
Your goal is similar to my goalin connecting with these
families and trying to helpfocus, focus on what we're
looking at and we're coming fromour hearts and heart space.
I'm finding there's parents inthese groups and they're asking
how to connect with themselves,how to connect with their kids.
They they feel like a telepathypiece is a piece that they're
(18:08):
seeing.
What would you say to familiesthat are starting to experience
this, starting to mold, like toopen themselves up to these
ideas and pieces?
What would you say that helpedyou?
Renee Boos (18:18):
I think my first, like the strongest advice I
could give someone, is to let goof your conditioned beliefs
about what is real.
Let it go, because you canstill come back to that.
But if you can open yourself tobelieve that potentially more
is possible than what you'vebeen conditioned to believe,
(18:38):
there is no harm in that.
There's only possibility andpotential.
And so I would say, just beopen and to let go of this.
I think this goes hand in hand.
You know, when we try to holdon to something that we think is
true, I think oftentimes atleast I'll speak for myself it
comes from a place of fear.
You know, we don't want to bevulnerable.
(18:59):
We humans don't want to bevulnerable and we are afraid of
so many things.
And if we can let go, even forjust brief periods of time, of
that fear and become a littlebit vulnerable and that is that
is something that was verydifficult for me, because I had
a pretty traumatic childhood andI had armored myself pretty
(19:20):
well and I was really good atcontrolling things, because that
gave me this sense of safety,and so this idea of
vulnerability was something thatI didn't even want to interface
with.
But I have learned that theunknown.
You know so when you don't wantto be vulnerable and you're
afraid, you want to know things.
You don't like the unknowncommon sort of trend in our
(19:42):
community with these labels,right, yes, and so the unknown
is terrifying at times, but whatI have found in my meditation
practice really led me to this,this understanding, and, you
know, tremendous personalhealing occurred.
I know that the unknown holdsmuch more promise than anything
(20:04):
detrimental to me.
Now I am certain.
And if I'm not willing to stepinto the unknown, then there is
so much potential that I ammissing.
And if I'm not willing to stepinto the unknown, then there is
so much potential that I ammissing.
And so back to your questionfor these parents step into the
unknown, just try it, you know.
I believe it is safe.
(20:25):
I have found it to be nothingbut safe in these instances.
There is a beauty there.
There there is love, there isthe potential for the kind of
connection that I think we werein this experience for, yeah,
and our children can be ourguides which is, you know, sort
of changing that conditionedidea that as a parent, you're
(20:46):
here to guide your child.
As sure, in some things themundane, you know you're going
to teach them how to drive andhow to hold a fork and all of
that right.
But I think that our childrenhave the potential to guide us
in these other ways, a hugepotential to do that if we will.
If we will honor what they'rebringing and their knowledge,
(21:11):
humble ourselves a little bit,step into the unknown with an
open heart.
Carrie Lingenfelter (21:17):
Yes, embracing the unknown can be
such a process to get to right.
There's so much healing becauseyou have to look at the inner
child pieces as a parent.
What is my need for thiscontrol?
How much conditioning have Ihad myself as maybe a high
maintenance kid that wasn'tallowed to be like that as a kid
(21:37):
, or maybe had the PDA yourselfas a kid and didn't realize it,
or we're a highly sensitive kid.
It's.
It's really interesting.
I've started to fully embracethe unknown and I feel like as
you do it more and more, itbecomes so much easier and
you're like delighted by whatcomes to fruition and it's like
(22:00):
whoa, I didn't even expect this,I didn't even think this was a
possibility, I didn't even knowthis would come my way, or
things that you hadn't evenimagined that come alive.
So there's definitely.
Have you had part of thathealing journey for yourself?
I don't know.
I know it's probably a long.
My healing journey was verylong as well and I was raised
(22:20):
spiritually.
I had a good, you know, apretty stable childhood.
There was a lot of control inmy childhood but I know I see
why I was in so much controlbecause I had to be in control.
Because I was in control.
There's a lot of control tobreak for us and we still use
those tools to come back whenwe're feeling that we're trying
to control again.
(22:40):
So, yeah, we're human, we're inthis human, this meat body, I
think you call it.
Renee Boos (22:45):
Meat sack, Meat sack .
I'm trying to be nicer aboutmine.
I'm like I actually feel youand like you now, but you are
still a meat sack.
Sometimes I'm like come onalready.
This is so limiting, let's geton with it here.
Carrie Lingenfelter (23:01):
Those are my children.
They're both like.
I am limited in this meat sack.
I'm ready to be 18.
I'm ready to do my passion inlife.
I'm ready for my dream.
Like they feel very limited atseven and almost 10.
They're like I'm done.
I'm ready to be an adult mom.
Why, why isn't this goingfaster?
Renee Boos (23:19):
Yeah Well.
I am an adult and I'm ready tobe something else.
So exactly what that is.
But I'm trying.
I'm spending a lot of timegetting this meat sack to
resonate at a higher frequency,that's for sure, because I know
there's more potential and it'sholding me back sometimes.
Carrie Lingenfelter (23:37):
I love it, yeah, definitely I feel it this
is great, yeah, so it was like aquestion was no worries, I was
thinking you don't have to shareall the pieces that you went
through.
But I think I think for me Icame when my son was born.
I was really trying to controlthe situation.
I had told my husband I'm aspeech therapist, I'm an
(23:59):
elementary educator, I got this,I know this, I can do it.
I don't.
You know, you're good, you canbackseat.
But as soon as he was born andlooked in our eyes, we were like
holy smokes, our world isshaken, I know nothing.
And then he, my husband, saidhe's beautiful, carrie.
And he turned and looked in hiseyes and he was like wow, we
don't know anything.
Both of us were just rocked toour core.
Yeah, from that.
(24:20):
And then, yeah, we have alittle bit of that.
You know the demand avoidanceand the oppositional force as
well.
It's like the more we push, thestronger the pushback came.
So there was a lot of healingjourney for both my partner and
I to figure out how to be moreof a cooperative participant
with our son, to hear him toconnect.
Did you feel like you had toheal pieces of you and your
(24:44):
journey to get where you're at?
Renee Boos (24:46):
Yeah, most definitely.
We are a family of three,autistic, demand avoidant
individuals, and I'm also ADHD,so I've got a sort of
characteristic there, and wedidn't know anything about any
of this when we started thisjourney, and so it was quite a
learning experience for us.
This desire for control wasvery strong in all three of us.
(25:07):
Even the tiny infant decidedthat he was going to sort of
direct how things were going,and we were strong oppositional
forces initially.
It didn't take us very long, Ithink, as I talked to others, to
come to terms with the factthat that wasn't going to work.
I mean, for me it was prettyquick to.
(25:28):
I think it was that resonancethat I could feel.
I'm a very energeticallysensitive person, highly
intuitive, I channel sometimes.
Now I think I'd been doing itfor a long time and just didn't
know what it was, and so I wouldget these messages that would
help me to understand what myson needed, and and it was
(25:49):
actually what I needed toounderstand what my son needed
and and it was actually what Ineeded too.
And so it was a.
It was a long.
It was a long and short healingjourney.
I think mine happened.
I had to lose almost everythingin that journey and I lost my
business.
I lost friends and family.
We were extremely isolated.
I didn't leave my house formore than an hour or two a week
(26:10):
for like six years when I'd beentraveling you know, 25 days a
month with my previous career.
So I had to sit with myself andwith my son in a home alone and
sort of acknowledge what waspainful, what I was resisting.
I had to think about why my sonwas relentless.
He is the strongest person I'veever encountered and I am no
(26:35):
weakling.
But, that kid.
He's amazing.
He will not accept mediocrityin anything, and so I wasn't
really allowed to take a longtime to heal.
I was forced to heal quicklyand I received these drops of
wisdom, you know, seemingly outof nowhere, from my son, which
were absolute gifts.
You know, they would come atjust the right time, Just when I
(26:58):
was feeling the most broken.
I would get some insight thatcame from don't know where,
because we were not.
I grew up Catholic and I wasnot practicing, and so I didn't
know anything about anythingthat he was talking about.
But he would say things andthen I would.
I would feel that they werecorrect, Like I would feel the
(27:21):
energy behind what he was saying, and then I would look into it
and I would be like my goodness,this is in like five spiritual
texts.
You know, I mean no doubt thisis no joke, this is truth here
and I have a little messenger, arelentless one, and so I'm
going to listen.
But yeah, it was.
I got very sick, I think, fromjust.
(27:43):
I think it was sort of areconditioning of my meat sack,
to be honest.
Yep, it dissipated a lot,almost to the point where of no
return, and then it transformedpretty miraculously and so, as
scary as that was, for me it wasa true healing.
I remember I had a moment whereI was, where I was feeling like
(28:04):
everything that was wrong Ilove I hate that word now but
then I was using a lot right andwrong, good and bad.
Everything was wrong.
I love I hate that word now butthen I was using a lot right
and wrong, good and bad,everything that was wrong about
us was my doing, my fault.
And then I had this epiphany, inthis moment of desperation and
meditation, that everything thatI was thinking was wrong could
(28:25):
also be framed as everythingthat was actually right, and it
was just a matter of perspective, kind of like my son spoke
about darkness and light.
It's a matter of perspective.
Carrie Lingenfelter (28:36):
Yes.
Renee Boos (28:37):
And so my perspective changed many times
and like, with these you knowacknowledgements of this fact
and then my healing journeywould progress.
So it was.
It's been an amazing.
My son's turning 10 next monthand it has been an amazing 10
years.
I tell him I'm so thankful forhim because I was like a
(29:00):
millionth of the person I wasbefore I met him.
Yeah, you know, I'm so grateful, very grateful.
Carrie Lingenfelter (29:07):
Yes, yeah, I.
It's really interesting.
The gifts that we receiveraising these amazing kids and
the challenges that we gothrough sometimes can bring us
to such a beautiful place.
As you described, hardestthings for my partner, my
husband and I, has been losingfriendships, feeling isolated.
(29:33):
I think what you're doing withbuilding a community is really
special, because I think so manyparents of neurodiverse kids
can feel so isolated, especiallyif you have kids who maybe mask
outside in society.
In school my kids they go to asocial-emotional-focused school,
(29:55):
project-based learning schoolnear us and every time I mention
things to teachers they're likewhat?
I never see that.
So that's how my kids are,where they're holding it
together during the day.
That's how my kids are wherethey're holding it together
during the day.
But then at home it can feel soisolating because it looks like
the perfect picture fromoutside.
Renee Boos (30:18):
I didn't experience that as much because my son
really never had to mask becausehe's been unschooled from the
beginning.
Carrie Lingenfelter (30:25):
Yeah.
Renee Boos (30:25):
So because you know it was not my intention
initially, I did not even knowsuch a thing existed, but it's
what he needed, so I wasfortunate enough that I could do
that.
The NCC was really born of thatsame idea.
Like so often, our children andus as their parents, our family
unit we're forced to presentourselves in a way that's
(30:47):
acceptable to those around us,present ourselves in a way
that's acceptable to thosearound us, and sometimes those
around us.
What works for them doesn't workfor us or what they think works
for them definitely does notwork for us, and so, like you
said, it can be very isolatingand my concept, my sort of my
inspiration for the NCC wasthere are many places that you
(31:08):
can go, especially if youacquired labels in life, to get
fixed, to work on yourchallenges right, and we all
come into this meat sack with abucket full of challenges and
hopefully, I think, like 25buckets full of gifts.
But I think we're reallyconditioned to look at that one
bucket full of challenges andwork on that before we really
(31:29):
focus on these gifts.
The gifts are taken for granted.
The challenges are where thefocus goes and oftentimes for
our children they have, you know, they're in five, six, seven
therapies a week and they'refocusing on all of these
challenges and they don't havemuch time to lean into their
gifts because they're masking soheavily that when they come
home and have some freedom, it'sjust meltdown, you know, let it
(31:50):
all out time.
So, it is isolating.
Yeah, so I thought with the NCCI'd like to create sort of a
home away from home for people,where they can come in with
their bucket full of challenges.
But we're going to, we're goingto ignore that one when we're
together and you bring your 15buckets full of gifts and let's
dip into those things and let'sdo them together with no
(32:11):
judgment, however you want to dothem.
So when we have an event at thencc, I might call it like art
night.
But what happens at art nightis someone takes a nap,
someone's hungry, so we cook inthe kitchen.
Somebody else wants to stargazein the backyard.
Someone else is showing offtheir car that's powered by
depleted uranium in the frontparking lot.
(32:33):
Someone might make a piece ofart, but there's no like
conscripted idea of what that is.
I mean, someone conjoined threestuffed animals the other day
and that was their artexperience.
It doesn't matter, we just cometogether and we do what we wish
, or nothing, or somecombination of all of it, in
(32:54):
non-judgment of one another.
Yes, I try to hold thefrequency of love in that
container.
Carrie Lingenfelter (33:01):
You know just the idea of this beautiful
acceptance that we all deserveyes, you know, as a parent
raising kids that areneurodiverse, it was so
beautiful to come to your centerand we came on the opening day
to check it out, and my husbandand I.
It was really interestingbecause we both said, wow, I
(33:22):
don't feel like I'm trying torestrain my kids, I'm trying to
keep them in the box thatsociety expects them to look
like.
Right now, I feel safe.
Right now.
Both my husband and I said wefeel safe for our kids.
They can act the way they want,they can behave the way they
want, they can be free.
And we felt free as adults, asthe parents.
(33:45):
It was really cool.
You did a wonderful wonderfuljob.
Renee Boos (33:48):
That's what's happening and I can say that
things have evolvedsignificantly since that opening
day there has.
There is definitely thispalpable feeling, and I'm not
the one saying this it's amazingpeople come in thinking it's a
retail store or something.
So I don't have enough moneyfor a great sign and I'm not
maybe not even going to put oneup, because it's awesome that
(34:10):
random people will come in andthey'll step like five feet in
the door and they'll go what isthis place?
What is, what are you doinghere?
yeah, it's beautiful my gosh, itfeels so wonderful and they're
perplexed and I tell them, andthey know, then they're in tears
and they want to volunteer.
And then they tell me that youknow, maybe this're in tears and
they want to volunteer.
And then they tell me that, youknow, maybe this is their
(34:31):
neurotype, they're curious aboutit.
And there's definitely theconcept, the message I was given
and I just had the containerand enough crazy to try to do it
with no money and you know, nohelp.
So you know that's it.
But you know that's my MO, solet's do that, let's give it a
(34:51):
go.
It has done exactly what I wastold it needed to do.
Carrie Lingenfelter (34:56):
For sure it is a beautiful experiment about
what is possible so much forsharing your journey and your
family and how you've found thiswhole piece of you, how you
(35:22):
found NCC, how you followed thispath that you were led along.
I love the courage you had todo all of that and thank you for
sharing your Changemakerjourney with us.
It was beautiful to hear.
Renee Boos (35:28):
Thank you.
Thank you for giving me thechance and thank you for what
you're doing.
It's so wonderful that we canall now come together and just
openly share.
It's such a gift, you know.
It's what we learn from eachother's lived experience, I
believe far surpasses anythingthat we can find elsewhere.
(35:48):
You know, we are meant to helpeach other and by sharing our
stories, I think we do that.
Carrie Lingenfelter (35:54):
Yes, yes, it's beautiful, so it continues
on the path.
Thank you, renee.
Yeah, thanks.
Well, that's a wrap.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Changemakers.
This is Keri, and if youhaven't done a review for us
five stars and a little fewwords about what you've enjoyed
in our podcast episodes we wouldreally appreciate it.
If you guys would like to evermessage me, I would love any
(36:16):
questions you have or anyfeedback at info at
hearttoheartlifecom.
We also have a brand newwebsite which we're super
excited to share it'shearttoheartlifecom.
Thanks so much for tuning inand happy life, happy times.
Changemaker families.
Bye.
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