Program Design with Mike Robertson - Episode 28

Designing strength and conditioning programs can seem daunting at first. I firmly believe that to get the best outcomes, you need a sound system for how you write your training programs for both patients and athletes training with you.

In this episode, I’m joined by Mike Robertson, who shares his program design system that he uses at his gym IFAST.

Full show notes: https://mikereinold.com/program-design-with-mike-robertson

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
On this episode of the sportsphysical therapy podcast, I'm
joined by Mike Robertson.
Mike's one of the strengthcoaches that have learned the
most from over the years, he'sthe owner of Robertson training
systems and the owner of a gym.
I fast in Indianapolis.
In this episode, we talk aboutprogram design in his system for
training something I think wouldbe great for both young coaches
and the rehab professionals aswell.

Robertson (00:32):
Hey, Mike.
How's it going?
Welcome to the podcast,

Reinold (00:35):
Hey man, I'm doing well, Mike.
Good to, uh, be back or good tobe here for the first time.
If, forget, we've done so manypodcasts together now I forget
what we've been on and what wehaven't.

Robertson (00:44):
I mean, this is awesome.
I finally get to reciprocate,right?
Because I've, I've been on yoursa couple of times, um, which is
great.
You have, you have a, a greatpodcast.
Uh, what's the, what's theofficial name of the physical
preparation podcast?

Reinold (00:54):
you got it.
Physical Prep podcast.

Robertson (00:56):
It's, it's a great podcast.
Mike, Mike and I, I mean, we'veknown each other for a long time
online, but you know, he's gotso much great content, website,
podcast, um, even, you know, hiseducational products are top
notch things that I love.
Um, his coaching program, evenif, if you aren't trained with
him, his yearly program,everything Mike does is amazing.
I, I, I, I, I haven't been shyabout this, mike, to my

(01:17):
audience, but like, You're the,you're the, like, you're the
strength coach I'm like mostsmitten with, right.
I think that's a good word foryou.
Right, right.
But I I, I've always said that Ia, as I wanted to grow as a
physical therapist, as I wantedto grow as a strength coach, um,
I, I, I learn from a ton ofpeople and I always keep coming
back to you and your content.

(01:37):
I just, there's something aboutit.
There's, I don't know if it'sjust your educational style or
if it's just that jive with whatyou.
What you, what you promote andwhat you think.
But um, but I don't know.
I just honestly thank youbecause I've learned so much
from you over the.

Reinold (01:50):
Oh, thanks man.
I appreciate that.
And uh, the feeling isdefinitely mutual, man.
I love learning from you as welland I feel like we're all trying
to just get better answers atthe end of the day, right?
You just gotta find the rightpeople that jive with your
personal learning style.
But yeah, I appreciate it man.
Thank you very much.

Robertson (02:07):
That's awesome.
Yeah.
And, and I kind of modeled thispodcast a little bit off Mike's
a little bit, right?
So, um, you know, if, if, if youenjoy these types of podcasts,
Mike always has amazing guests,by the way.
How do you get all those guests?
You get, you've such a diversegroup of speakers.
Like, I, I'll get emails fromyou with the latest episode, and
I've never heard of thesepeople, but then I'm like, O O M
G.
This is a goldmine of a personthat I need to now follow.

(02:29):
Like, how do you find all thesepeople?

Reinold (02:31):
Man, I think the podcast is reflective of the,
the a d D that I deal with in mylife.
if you're, if you're a businessowner, an entrepreneur, like you
kind of have to have your handsin everything.
I mean, you can't let anythinggo, right?
So like I'm into training.
My business partner's a physicaltherapist, so I'm into the rehab
side.
You know, social media,business, personal development,

(02:54):
like all these things areimportant if you want to be
successful as an entrepreneur.
So there's certain things that Ireally want to dive in on and,
and you can tell like there'scertain people I've had on five,
six times already, but man,there's also just like, Hey, now
this person's amazing at socialmedia.
I want to interview them.
Or, oh, this person's amazingwith force plates and you.
In isometric mid die polls.

(03:15):
I'm just gonna go deep on that.
It's like, it's very reflectiveof kind of how I think, but I
think it's just really trying tofind this broad group of people
in the fitness industry so thatyoung coaches or young physical
therapists can listen and saylike, oh no, I'm really into
this and find, you know, justpique their interests and find
them things that they'reinterested in.

Robertson (03:34):
That's awesome.
And, and, and the way you do itis just, it, it just, it comes
across so Well, I mean, again,it's a great podcast.
It's a great thing you shoulddefinitely check out.
Um, Mike owns a gym inIndianapolis called Iast.
That's, wait, let me, I'm gonnado this.
Indi uh, Indianapolis Fitnessand Sports Training.

Reinold (03:51):
You got it, man.

Robertson (03:52):
I nailed

Reinold (03:52):
try.
First

Robertson (03:53):
and the podcast all in one and, and, and, and I
didn't, I didn't prep myself forthis podcast, so I'm proud of
myself here.
That's pretty good.
So, um, so you, you own Iass.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit before we get into some of
the good questions here, tell usa little bit about Iass, how you
got started as a coach.
Cuz I, I just think like a lotof people probably are gonna
look up to you if they don'talready, but they, they look up
to you and they wanna walk inyour shoes a little bit.

(04:15):
Tell us a little bit about yourstory of how you started.
I.

Reinold (04:17):
Oh man.
It's like such this long andwinding path and I always joke
around, I say like, I've seenevery nook and cranny of the
fitness industry, right?
I've been in division onesettings.
I've been in rehab, I've doneone-on-one in-home personal
training.
That was all in like my firsteight years, right?
Oh, and I was a graduateassistant in the biomechanics

(04:38):
lab at Ball State.
So in eight years I've got allthese different experiences, but
I.
Two things.
I wanted to work with athletesand second, I knew like I'm
basically unemployable, right?
Like, like I think that's a lotof entrepreneurs we're
constantly like, oh, I can dothis better, or I've got a great
idea and the person I'm workingfor is too slow to execute on

(05:01):
it, or that's not part of theirvision.
So I did all these differentthings and I always felt like at
some point I wanted to work formyself.
About 2005, I moved toIndianapolis and Bill Hartman
and I start hanging out.
Now, bill and I are bothgrinders in our own sense.
You know, I'm doing, I'm doingin-home personal training at the
time, so I'm up at 4 45, firstclients at six, and I'll work

(05:24):
from anywhere between six,seven, maybe even eight o'clock
at night.
And when I don't have clientslike midday, you don't have
clients.
I'm writing articles for TeaNation and creating content and
videos.
So I'm doing that for basicallythree years at the same time.
Bill's working four 10 hourshifts in his PT clinic, Monday,
Tuesday, Thursday, Friday.
And you'd think, oh, well therest of the time he takes off.

(05:46):
No, no, bill.
Bill works six days a week.
So Wednesdays and Saturdays he'straining clients, like personal
training clients out of hisbasement gym.

Robertson (05:56):
Oh.

Reinold (05:57):
So, It gets to be like 2007, early 2008.
We're like, man, we'd like tothink we're pretty good at this.
You know, why are we working forother people and working these
ridiculous hours?
If we're gonna work ridiculoushours, let's do it for
ourselves.

Robertson (06:10):
I'm Right, right.

Reinold (06:11):
So yeah, so we decide this basically in March, 2008,
we start driving around June,2008.
We find our space move in.
In August 4th, 2008, bill and Iopen I fast.
So we've been open like 14 and ahalf years now.
Direct access wasn't a thinginitially, so he still kept the,
the PT gig going for a littlewhile, but I think three or four

(06:32):
years later, direct accessbecame a thing in Indiana.
So then he started i a sphysical therapy and the rest,
as they say is history

Robertson (06:42):
And, you know, you know what I w I wonder, you
know, I've never really, like, Iknow you and Bill obviously have
been partners for forever andhe's a brilliant physical
therapist that I think a lot ofpeople look up to, obviously.
Um, you know, I, I wonder howmuch you guys rub.
Off on one another.
Right now, I'm, I'm sure you do,right?
But like, I, I am primarily aphysical therapist.
I've worked in the performanceworld my whole career, right?

(07:04):
I own a gym, right?
So like, I get strength andconditioning, but like, I am
drawn to your style.
Like, and, and y you know, Imean, it, I I How much of that
do you think it's because youand Bill collaborate on, on the
vision of I FFAs was that big, abig part of the.

Reinold (07:20):
Yeah, I think it had to be right.
Uh, I think the thing that makesBill and I unique is neither one
of us has ever been singular inour focus.
So here's what I mean by that.
when I came outta college andyou know, I'd spent that time in
the research lab and I'd beenworking in the athletic weight
room.
My first real like paying gigoutta college was essentially

(07:40):
doing rehab in the back of achiropractic clinic

Robertson (07:43):
Oh, no way.
Really?

Reinold (07:44):
Really?
Yeah.
So literally zero rehabexperience.
It's like, hey, here we go.
Uh, Betty is 85 years old andhas chronic back pain.
What are you gonna do with her?
Like legitimately, those are thepeople I'm working with.
Uh, being the person that I am,I was like, well, I don't want
Betty to have more pain becauseI'm treating her, so you know,

(08:04):
I'm gonna do whatever I can.
So, so I had a very rehabfocused time in my life that
helped me appreciate that intothe spectrum.
Right.
And then in parallel, bill was aphysical therapist, but.
He wasn't even a closetbodybuilder like he was a true
bodybuilder for extended periodsof time.
So while he was a PT by trade,he was very into the strength

(08:27):
training and the performanceside of what we do.
So I think it was thatappreciation for the ends of the
spectrum that most people don'thave that brought us together
because, hey man, I could sitthere and talk to him about, you
know, this personal trainingclient that I have that has
chronic knee pain.
He'd help me with that.
You know, I remember when he waslike, oh man, I wanna do a power

(08:47):
lifting meat.
I don't remember how old he was.
I don't think he was 50 yet.
But randomly, bill's like, yeah,I'm gonna do a power lifting
meat.
I'm like, awesome, let's go.

Robertson (08:55):
Let's program

Reinold (08:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we had a bro fest and he wentand lifted and we ate steaks
afterwards.
It was amazing.
So, but I think that's why,that's why.
He and I get along so well.
It's probably why I get alongwith a lot of physical
therapists pretty well because Ihave a deep respect for what you
guys do.
Like I recognize the level ofeducation that you guys take,

(09:17):
um, the amount of time and carethat it takes to be a good
physical therapist.
Cause I've been in that space.
I've had a few wins and I've hadsome losses too.
So it's that relatability andthat understanding of what you
guys go through.
I think that.
Me get along well with a lot ofdifferent people in the industry
just because I can share some ofthose experiences with them.

Robertson (09:37):
That's great.
Great.
And, and, and I think we all, wekind of all grew up together
online a little bit too, wherewe were all learning, we were
all collaborating and, and youknow, like yourself, Eric
Cressey, Tony Genor, you know,even like.
The Ben Brunos, the Dean Sommersaid, I mean, there's, there's
so many of us at the, over theyears, like, you know, we
collaborated on things.
We tackled things, we did cool,like cool, like projects

(09:59):
together.
I, I think it was just us allgrowing together and, you know,
you, you take a step back andyou look and you, you realize
how much influence we've all hadon each other.
It's been pretty neat to see C

Reinold (10:09):
Yeah.
Well, there's just, the internetwas a different place 15, 20
years ago.

Robertson (10:15):
right?
It was nice, right?

Reinold (10:16):
it, it, it really was like, unless you went to some of
the dodgy forums where peoplewere just angry and wanted to
complain about everything.

Robertson (10:23):
And those existed?
Yes.

Reinold (10:25):
Yes.
The, the angry forums were athing, uh, but by and large it
was, it was a very collaborativetime.
Right.
And I could read something ofyours or something of Eric's and
all of a sudden you and I couldcollaborate on something or we'd
have an email exchange or, youknow, crazy thing.
We'd call each other on ourphones, our telephones, we'd hit

(10:45):
numbers and call each other.
But, but again, it was fun andit was collaborative cuz we were
all learning, we're all excitedand we just wanted to push the
industry forward.
I think that's one of the thingsthat people miss out on.
Yeah, we're, we're entrepreneursand we wanna make money and all
that great stuff, but we werevery thirsty for knowledge about
learning, about getting betterand working together was a

(11:06):
surefire way to help us do that.

Robertson (11:08):
right?
I, I mean, think about it.
There's, we, I say this a lot,right?
But it's really hard to innovatenowadays.
It's hard to be an innovator.
but you know, the way you canstill innovate is by learning
from outside your realm andapplying it to your realm.
And that's, that's what we alldid.
And that's what we all did thattogether.
And I think that's, that's why,you know, people like I, I think
people, you know, see us all as,as similar people that have

(11:31):
influenced.
Uh, you know, people'seducational style over the
years.
So, um, it was, it was alwaysgood to see.
But, um, but one of the things Ithink that I've learned the most
from you, and then I look up tothe most from you is, um, your
programming style and, and justthe way you program, I think is
very systems mindset, which iswhat I am.
It's very bu uh, you know,holistic.

(11:52):
Well, you, you, you wanna makesure you're getting.
Specs of athleticism, stuff likethat.
And there's a lot of what you dois, is, um, very similar to what
we built a champion.
And a lot of it has to do withlearning from people like
yourself and the Mike Boylesand, you know, even Mark Forte
and back in there.
I mean, there's so many peoplethat like, uh, when this all was
coming together was really nice,but programming is really what I
like.

(12:12):
But ironically, when I talk toour students and I talk to our
strength interns, I think that'sthe area that they, they're
nervous about the most, is theyall wanna know how they can
improve their programmingskills, and they're so insecure
about it.
Right.
And it's just one of thosethings that just seems like,
you're like, oh, it's, you know,I, I'm, I'm worried am I gonna
be able to write a program?

(12:33):
With them.
And I always tell'em, look,you'll get better, you'll get
more comfortable with time.
Uh, what sort of advice do yougive people at this point in
their early career when they'reanxious about programming and
are, are what they gonna buildfor this person actually help
them achieve their goals?
Like how do you, how do you helpsomebody in that process?

Reinold (12:53):
Yeah.
Well, the first thing I try anddo is empathize, right?
Because I mean, I've beenwriting programs for 22 years
now, and I still have thesethoughts sometimes, right?
It's like, oh man, no.
Like you get in there and you'relike, I got a great idea.
And then it just doesn't hitright, or it doesn't, doesn't
flow the way that you want itto.
So just know that this is neverlike a done deal.

(13:14):
You're never like, oh, check thebox.
I'm a world class programdesigner.
Like, you never get to thatpoint, or you never feel like
that.
right?
Like, you just never feel likeyou're quite there.
So you, I always tell people itgets easier with reps, right?
Anytime you try something newwith your programming, it's
awkward, it's slower.
Um, and I can think of numeroustimes where like I started

(13:35):
learning all of Lee Taf speedstuff, right?
So now it's like what wouldnormally.
15 minutes to write a programupdate is taking 45.
Right?
Or I learned Joel Jameson'sconditioning stuff and it's
like, okay, this used to take 20minutes, now it's taking an
hour.
Right?
But anytime you add somethingnew, it takes time to assimilate

(13:56):
it and smooth it out and make ityour own.
So just know.
nothing is your own right now.
Right?
When you're starting out, you'rejust this like mixture of your
personal experiences, thetraining styles that have
influenced you what you likedoing.
It's, there's nothing to kind ofsmooth that path out early on.
It's just reps.

(14:16):
Uh, so I always tell people,don't sweat it.
It takes time.
But there are two hard answersthat I think could probably help
you out.
Number one, whenever you getstuck, ask your.
If I could only achieve onething with this program, what
would it be?
Because a lot of times what yousee is when somebody gets stuck

(14:37):
writing a program or they getoverwhelmed, it's because
they're thinking, oh, well thisperson wants to shed body fat
and improve their mobility andget stronger and build muscle
and get in better shape.
It's like, look, there's way toomany goals in that one program,
so you gotta narrow your scope,narrow your focus.
Right?
So that would be my first pieceof advice.

(14:58):
The.
The second piece of advice thatI would give you is to really
question why you're puttingelements in your program.
So one of the things we'renotorious for at I a S with our
interns is the program defense.
And we hype it up, right?
We want'em to be uncomfortableand come in a little sweaty.

(15:18):
Uh, and so we make themuncomfortable going into it.
But in all honesty, the onepiece of advice I give them is,
Hey, look, there has to be arationale for everything in your
program.
So legitimately, I could go tothe third exercise on the second
day of the week, look at the setreps scheme, and you should be
able to say why you chose threeby eight.

(15:39):
And I know that soundsincredibly mundane, but if you
don't have a rationale for whyyou're doing stuff, why is it in
the program?
And I think right now a lot ofpeople get caught up in
programming fomo, right?
Like, oh, if I don't put thisin, like they're, no, no.
Like the best program.
Have willful omission writtenall over them, right?

(15:59):
There's so many things you coulddo, but you're omitting them
because it's not gonna move theneedle significantly.

Robertson (16:05):
right.

Reinold (16:06):
So I think those are two things.
You know, ask yourself why, andthen always remember to keep the
main thing, the main thing, likewhat is the one goal?
And always come back to that andfocus on that.

Robertson (16:17):
I like that.
And I've seen young people alsoon a similar note, chase, Right.
They, they go to a new coursethis weekend, or you know,
somebody recommends they readthis book and they get into
this, and then they just startadding and adding and adding and
then, and it, it starts to getrattled up.
And when you take a step backand you, and you say it from
your lens that you justdescribed there, well, why is

(16:39):
that in there?
There's, there's six things thatthey're working on now because
they're trying to do everythingand then when you try to do
everything, you do everythingpoorly, right?

Reinold (16:47):
Yeah.
So I legitimately tell people toremember one program is just one
program.
And again, sounds simple, right?
But there's only so much you cando in one program.
Like if you squat two 50 and youwrite one program, you're not
magically gonna be at 400 at theend of that unless you're on
some pretty heavy supplements.
You know?

(17:09):
Like it takes time, right?
So maybe that two.
you know, is two 60 at the endof that month, and maybe it's 2
65 or two 70.
So if you kind of take it with agrain of salt and you realize,
Hey man, one program's just oneprogram.
There's only so much I can do inthat program.
It takes kind of the stress offof that, right?
Because it shouldn't bestressful.

(17:30):
It shouldn't be difficult.
There's only so much you canaccomplish in a month.
And when you're okay with thatand you start to think about the
long term, right?
Hey, one month is just onemonth.
But if I string 12 good monthstogether, what does that look
like?
Now you've got a totallydifferent client or athlete
standing in front of you.

Robertson (17:45):
Yeah.
And, and sometimes you have totell'em that too, where you say
like, look, you, you can't writeprograms month to month and just
sit down every month with ablank piece of paper and be
like, okay, what are we gonna donow?
Right?
Like, there, there has to be aplan in place, like you said.
So this is just one program.
Well, let's think of what thenext 12 months are.
Right?
Your online training program, isit a one month program or a 12

(18:07):
month program?

Reinold (18:08):
It's legitimately 12 months, but broken into four,
three month segments.
Right.
That all have a unique theme andgoal to'em.

Robertson (18:15):
Right.
Right.
And that, and, and I, I thinkeveryone, they're, they're
worried about making that oneprogram perfect where they don't
think about, well, how's thisgonna progress this next cycle?
Right.
You have to, you have, you haveto think those things.
I, I, I think everybody has itin'em, right?
If you've gone through school,you've done an internship or
something like that, you have itin you.
It's just, like you said, it'sthe reps.
You need the experience to justsay that this program will

(18:37):
produce results.
Haven't I, I, I know it will,but by my book Smarts, but I
haven't seen it yet in reallife.
Um, and that's where just, youknow, getting with somebody like
yourself, like doing aninternship at, uh, at, at a
really nice place like yourself.
Um, that's where I think likepeople can really advance their
skills faster too, is by makingmistakes around people that have

(19:01):
been through it so that way theycan recover faster.

Reinold (19:04):
Yeah, dude, I wish somebody would've told me when I
was young that mistakes areokay.
Because I think I lived probablythe first 35 years of my life
thinking that if I made amistake, like it was a, a poor
character reflection of myself,right?
Like I was a bad person versuslike, no, like everybody makes
mistakes and great people makemistakes frequently.

(19:27):
The goal is if you make amistake to question why it.
and make fewer mistakes thelonger you do it right.
Like again, I've writtenprograms for like 22 years now.
I still write programs thataren't great or I, you know,
make a mistake when I'm writingsomething like that happens.
The goal is to learn from it sothat you make fewer and fewer
the longer you do this.

Robertson (19:47):
That's perfect and, and with experience, you get
your judgment and that's, youknow, you can't expect to have
that on day one, but thatdoesn't make you a bad coach.
right there.
There's so many people with likeimposter syndrome, just like
feeling bad about themselveswith this wear, like you, you
have it, you just, you justgotta get out there and spread
your wings a little bit,

Reinold (20:06):
Well, and I just did a talk, I can't even remember
where it was now, but like inthe last year, I did a talk
about imposter syndrome.
And the really bad thing aboutimposter syndrome is it hits
hardest on the people that arethe most inquisitive, that are
the most curious, right?
It's not, it's not the personthat's doing the same workout.
Every day with the same, youknow, 80 year old Grandma Betty

(20:28):
and 12 year old little Johnny,they're all doing the same
workout.
That guy's not the guy dealingwith imposter syndrome, right?
It's those of us that are reallyout there trying to get better,
trying to learn.
We're the ones that are alwayslike, oh man, I don't know if
this is good enough.

Robertson (20:40):
Yeah.
Right.
So from your perspective as theemployer, you're looking for the
people with imposter syndrome,that's what you want,

Reinold (20:46):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, and eventually they'll growinto their confidence, right?
Like it's, it's in there.
It takes

Robertson (20:52):
Yeah, exactly.

Reinold (20:53):
It's a sucky answer.
It's a sucky answer.
Like it takes time, it takesreps.
Nobody wants to hear that, butit's the stone cold truth.

Robertson (21:01):
but surround yourself with people like yourself.
And if, if, if you can't, youcan't do an internship or you're
in a, you know, a remote area ofthe country, that's fine.
There's tons of educationalopportunities out there.
There's mentoring groups you canjoin.
Um, heck, I would sign up forMike's online program and just
train with them for a year.
Right?
What better way to haveexperienced programming than
doing it yourself, right?

(21:21):
So there's some way, so manyways to do it, but.
I know the way we program atChampion is very similar to, to
your style, and probably again,just because I've learned so
much from you over the, thereprobably had some carryover,
right?
But, um, I wish this was herebefore we started Champion, but
it wasn't.
I think you've been, you've,you've kind of been chasing this
out a little bit more lately,the last several years.

(21:44):
But you, you've kind of expandedon this, this R seven system
that you've come up with that Iwas really impressed with when I
saw you present it one time andactually start to articul.
Because again, it shows you, youknow, you have that mindset, you
have that system-based mindset,and you're trying to make sure
that you, you, you haveeverything strategically
planned.

(22:04):
Um, can you tell us a little bitabout R seven?
Like R like the letter R I'm inBoston.
I can't say R so that mightsound weird, but it's r r seven,
but, um, But, uh, tell us alittle bit about R seven and the
different components and, youknow, we could probably, you
know, do a podcast episode oneach one of them, but tell us a

(22:24):
little bit about your systemand, you know, where it came
from, how you built it, and, andlike what, what the different
components are.
I'd love to learn more

Reinold (22:30):
Yeah, so I'll never get tired of talking about this, but
really, R seven.
Started in my mind in 2008, butdidn't come to fruition until
about 2012.
So if you came into I fFast in2008, you were working with me
or Bill like period.
We had no employees.
We had no staff.
It was us.
And the good side of that is youworked with Bill or I.

(22:53):
The downside to that is ifyou're just a normal human
being, bill and I may be hard todecipher from a technical
perspective, So I think aboutour programs and legitimately
the first thing on our programwas soft tissue mobilization.
right?
So it's like your name program1.0 date soft tissue
mobilization.
Now, if you're listening to thisshow, you might know that soft

(23:15):
tissue mobilization means likeself myofascial release, right?
It's a lacrosse ball or a stick,or you know, foam roller,
whatever you have access to.
But no gem pop client that walksin our gym has any clue what
soft tissue mobilization is.

Robertson (23:28):
right.

Reinold (23:29):
And so as we start to get into this, we realize like
our clients, they.
What we ask them because theyget results, but they have no
clue why they're doing anythingin their program.
So again, it's like 2012,myself, bill Hartman and then
Eric Otter, uh, who was anintern, a staff member now is
like the medical director forthe Memphis Grizzlies, cuz he's

(23:51):
wicked, wicked smart.
Uh, the three of us are, are inBill's office, right in his
purple room and we're like, wehave to figure this out.
We have to make this morepalatable.
So we start throwing out theser.
and it just starts comingtogether, right?
R one is released resetreadiness, reactive resistance,

(24:12):
resiliency, recovery.
So now first off, theterminology is way easier to
understand, right?

Robertson (24:20):
from the layperson

Reinold (24:21):
For the layperson,

Robertson (24:22):
employees and everything.

Reinold (24:23):
it, it's so much easier to understand, but also there's
almost this emotive response,right?
So even if it's Grandma Betty,who's never worked out in her
entire life, Release.
Oh yeah, that's with the foamroller.
I roll on the outside of my leg.
It hurts like hell for about 10or 15 seconds, but when I stand
up, my knee doesn't hurt.
And I've got more mobility.

(24:45):
Right.

Robertson (24:46):
I like nailed it.

Reinold (24:47):
it, right, like they get it right.
Reset.
Oh, that's the breathing orwhatever.
The corrective exercises.
Readiness, that's the warmup.
So all these words just make alot more sense to everybody that
walks in and like you alludedto, go ahead.

Robertson (25:02):
I was gonna interrupt for a second here cause I want
to call BS on you a little bit.
There's no way you guys startedbrainstorming and all these
words begin with R Like it hadto be like, half of them were R
and then you're like, well,let's make'em all R like.

Reinold (25:13):
well that might have been, that might have been, you
know, like resiliency.
Okay.
First off, resiliency wasoriginally regenerate and then,

Robertson (25:22):
That's close.
That's

Reinold (25:23):
yeah, it was

Robertson (25:23):
like resilience better.

Reinold (25:25):
Yeah.
Well, Don Al Busche, who I thinkwas at the Citadel, I don't know
if he's still there.
He was the one that's like, Ilike resiliency better.
And I'm like, I do too.
So I need to give Donnell ashout out cuz he helped me with
that one.
Um, but yeah, I'm sure it wasn'tperfect, but that was kind of
the trend.
And then we're like, oh, nowwe've got seven Rs,

Robertson (25:42):
You made it sound like a fairytale.
You're just like, all these Rwords just started part.
I was like, no, you guys put a

Reinold (25:47):
One hour later, one hour later, the heavens shined
down and we had our answer, uh,But the great thing was what we
created on the front end for ourclients actually worked
incredibly well for our coachesas well.
So if you've ever worked in afacility where there's tons of
different coaches and trainers,it looks very inc.

(26:09):
When one person's over heredoing like real proper training,
somebody's just doing cardio foran hour, somebody's just doing
burpees, you know, until theirclient vomits, like there's no
congruency there, and that'sdefinitely not what we wanted at
Iast.
Right.

Robertson (26:24):
Mm-hmm.

Reinold (26:25):
but we had all these people with different
backgrounds, different lenses.
Like at the time, Bill's aphysical therapist.
I don't even know what todescribe myself as.
I'm just kind of a very broadgeneralist.
We had Ty Terrell who had cameup under Lee Taf, so he's
amazing with speed and agility.
J Chung was training our fatloss clients.
So if all these people are justleft to their own devices to

(26:46):
write programs, again, it's notgonna be very congruent.
So now we just give them thismodel and this template, right?
Like, Hey, do whatever you do,but make it.
within these broad strokes.
So now everybody's using thesame language.
Anybody can pick up somebodyelse's program and have an idea
as to what they're trying to dowith their workouts.
And overall, it just madeeverything we did look more

(27:09):
polished, a little bit smoother.
Right?
And so, again, something that westarted really for our client's
benefit, turned out to be a hugebenefit for us as a staff and as
a team as.

Robertson (27:20):
Yeah, I, I can imagine being an intern there,
but then like in futureemployees, I mean, everything is
just so much easier.
And if you're listening to thisand you're a strength coach, or
even if you're even like aphysical therapist and you're
starting to write like some,like late stage programming, I,
you have to think this way.
You have to think about allthese different components that
go into a program and come upwith them in this, this fashion.

(27:42):
Now.
They don't all have, have torhyme like Mikes do or whatever.
They don't have to all startwith R but like, you ha, you ha
you have to, you have to, youhave to think this way in in
order to get consistent results.
And then even if you're justcoaching by yourself and you
just opened up a gym byyourself, you start this way
from day one.
So that way your ability toscale.
Just become so much easier asyou grow.

(28:04):
It's g it it, it'll becomeobvious to you when it's, you're
ready to add employees andpeople helping you, and it'll be
so easy to do if you do it inthis fashion.
So, you know, again, like kudosto you for doing that, Mike,
because, um, I, I, I think it'sa game changer for our whole
industry as, as much as it'shelped you guys at I fast.

Reinold (28:21):
Well, I appreciate that.
And here's one of the thingsthat I think is really bene
beneficial, like you talkedabout it for late stage rehab.
You can use this system at anystage of training, right?
And here's the great thing aboutit, like let's say R four, which
is reactive, or you're powerwork.
If you're with an early stage ac l or something, you're
probably not doing power work,right?

(28:42):
but the slot is still there.
So if you leave it out, it'swillful omission.
Right?
And so I think that's a bigdifference between, hey, I'm
willfully omitting something, orI just forgot to put something
in, right?
Or I didn't think about it.
So I think that's the beauty ofit.
It's just you can scale it.
You can use whatever activitiesyou use, you can, you know, plug
and play with the things thatyou're most comfortable

(29:04):
coaching, queuing, like there'sreally.
guardrails on it other than,Hey, this is the general ebb and
flow of the session and how itshould look.

Robertson (29:12):
That's, that's brilliant.
And, and such a good way ofoutlining it.
So, uh, so briefly, just sopeople get a taste of it, cause
I wanna learn from yourprogramming style too, and not
just like the why, but the what,uh, which, what, what are the
seven components?
And like, gimme like theelevator pitch for each one so
we can understand how you do it.
And, and when you say onethrough seven, by the way, you
do them in this order, right?

(29:32):
That's the way they're laid out.
Like this is the sequentialprogression of one of their
sessions too.

Reinold (29:37):
Yes.
This is literally how we wouldwrite a program at Iast or if
you worked with me online.
So like R one is your release,so that's your foam rolling soft
tissue work, anything like thatthat you would do in the gym.
R two is your resets.
Now resets.
Sometimes it's a love-haterelationship.
I don't care what you throw inhere, right?

(29:57):
Sometimes it's breathing basedactivities.
Sometimes it's crawling.
Sometimes it's your classiccorrective exercises.
Whatever you're gonna do tooptimize biomechanical position
before a session, that's your Rtwo, that's your reset.
You're just trying to get yourclient or athlete in a better
position before they startwarming up.
R three is read.

(30:19):
Again, I think that's a pretty,uh, pretty clear and concise
one, but that's your warmup,right?
And there's lots of ways you canlook at that.
Physiologically getting tissueswarm, prepping the nervous
system.
Uh, there's the biomechanicalside, there's the specific side.
Like if you're gonna go andsprint that day, you don't just
start sprinting, you know, maxeffort, forties, you do some
buildups and tens and twenties,but you prepare yourself.

(30:41):
So that's readiness.
R three, R four is your, Sothat's any of your speed, power,
explosiveness type training.
And this is where too, wherepeople start to say, oh, well I
like, you know, whatevermedicine balls.
And I like plyometrics.
Again, I don't care what toolsyou use, pick the tool that
works best for you in your co,in your context or your

(31:02):
environment, but

Robertson (31:02):
Yeah.
In your population, right.
The person that needs in there.
Right,

Reinold (31:05):
absolutely.
But this is something that, youknow, we might talk about later,
but like r.
A lot of people would skip powerwork with their gin pop clients
or their older populations.
We put that stuff in, right,because we know that power
development deteriorates as youget older, so we think it's
something important to keep in.
So we go R four, reactive.

(31:25):
R five is your resistance, yourgeneral strength training.
R six is your resiliency or yourmetabolic work.
And then R seven is recovery.
And so this is where I alwaystry and convince my clients and
athletes like, Hey, look, allthe things that you just did are
great for you physiologically,but your nervous system is is
pretty revved up.
You're very sympatheticallydriven at this point.

(31:47):
So my job before you leave is tobring that back down, kind of
kickstart that parasympatheticprocess and kickstart recovery
so that you recover faster andthe next time you want to come
in the gym, you're fitter andfresher for doing.
So that is kind of the R sevenapproach, and the way I try and
describe it to give you a mentalmodel is it's kinda like a bell

(32:07):
curve, right?
You don't walk in the gym, well,maybe if you're going into one
of these big power lifting gyms,right?
You just drink like three RedBulls, pantera, the whole in as
loud as possible.
Sniff an ammonia cap and thenyou bang out 4 0 5, but, but for
the normal humans in the crowd,right, it's a little bit more
nuanced and a little bit morebuildup.
So you foam roll, you do yourbreathing and your resets, then

(32:31):
you start to trend up, right?
You do your readiness, yourpower, and your explosiveness.
When you're fresh, you hit yourheavy weights or your strength
training.
When you're fresh, as youfatigue, you hit your metabolic
work, and then to kind offlatten that curve out and come
back to baseline, that's whenyou do your breathing and your
recovery work before you leave.
So I work a little bit betterwith a picture.

(32:51):
Uh, but hopefully that's a goodenough mental model that people
can envision kind of that bellcurve that every training
session should look like.

Robertson (32:58):
Yeah, and I, I think it makes sure that yourself and
then every coach that's workingat your facility delivers a very
similar product to people, evenif it's, you know, maybe
different, uh, ingredients.
It's.
The same recipe.
Right.
And I think that that's, that's,that's fun for the person
involved.
But I, I bet you that it'sindirectly educating your people

(33:20):
more than you probably evenrealized at the beginning,
right?
Where just this terminology andapplying that the people
understand these concepts oftraining probably better than
just reading soft tissuemobilization, like you said.
Like, what does that mean?
Right?
Like, so I, I feel like thenthis turns your clients into,
uh, almost like smarter gymgoers, right?
Where they understand.

(33:41):
More and then they can be betteradvocates for their own training
in the future.
It's a, it's a win-win for youboth,

Reinold (33:47):
it, it's huge.
Right?
And I think one of the bigthings that I found is buy-in is
consistently higher now.

Robertson (33:53):
I'm sure.

Reinold (33:54):
Like they, they just intuitively understand like, oh,
I get why I'm doing thesethings.
So buy-in is better, which meansthey're training harder, which
means they get better results.

Robertson (34:05):
That's great.
All right.
So for I, I don't wanna losepeople's attention right now,
so, so people that wanna lolearn more about R seven
themselves, what's, what's thebest product that you have to
teach them that?

Reinold (34:16):
Yeah, the Complete Coach certification, uh, is
probably the best way to learnthat.
And it, it's a pretty in-depthproduct cuz I got tired of
people asking for like, thefirst 15 years of my career,
like, Hey, if I could just buyone product of yours to learn
your systems, what would it be?
And I did I didn't have itright.
I had a mobility product, upperbody, lower body, knees,

(34:36):
whatever.
Uh, so I com.
I com.
I created the Complete CoachCert to basically give people
that can't come to I fFast orintern at iast, access to
basically the way I assessclients, write programs,
coaching queue, progress,regress activities.
It's basically all of that in anonline course.

Robertson (34:54):
that's great.
And a, and a great resource forcoaches, but also like even PTs
that wanna get into this.
So it's, it's great.
Um, tell us a little bit moreabout how you apply R seven to
different people.
Right?
Like, how would that changebetween somebody brand new to
the gym versus somebody that'sbeen training with you for years
or, you know, uh, and an olderclient versus a young athlete.

(35:15):
Like how, how do you adapt thatsystem to each person?

Reinold (35:19):
This is such a great question, and I think
intuitively it makes.
To touch all these bases.
If you're training an athlete,right, like if you're training a
basketball player or a soccerplayer, you know, hey, they need
to be able to run fast and jumphigh and you know, move heavy
external loads and beconditioned to be successful in
their sport.

(35:40):
Like that makes sense.
But I think where a lot ofpeople, at least initially, like
I caught a lot of flack for thisMike, like a lot of flack, when
I used to say like 10 years ago,I'm like, no, legitimately,
everybody's an athlete.
and I

Robertson (35:53):
Oh, really?

Reinold (35:53):
oh no, I caught so much shit for this.
I, sorry.
I don't know if I can say thatso much, because people are
like, no, you can't say that.
Like, I never played a sport.
I'm like, that's not the pointof this.
The point is everybody hasathleticism in them.
Whether they ever played a sportor not is irrelevant, and you
need to think like that, right?
Because even if it's justlongevity, if you're 70 years

(36:15):
old and you've never been in agym and we've had people like
this, you need to start takingcare of these physical qualities
before they deteriorate, right?
Well, they're probably alreadydeteriorating, but hey, let's
tie the into the rope and let'shang on as long as we can.
So all that you have to do isscale the workout to the person
in front of you so you know, topof mind right now is tall.

(36:39):
Dave, Dave Shock, who works atat iass.
Dave is amazing with our gin popclients because he buys into
this wholeheartedly.
We have like 80 year olds thatcome in our gym and they're
gonna go play golf, They'regonna go play golf two to three
times a week.
So if they're gonna do poweroutside of the gym, how can we
train power in the gym?

(37:01):
Now again, this is where peoplewould come with the straw.
Straw man up.
Well, they're not, you can'thave'em jump on a box.
You're right.
I'm not gonna have an 80 yearold jump on a box, but what I
will do is have'em throw amedicine.

Robertson (37:11):
right.
Why?

Reinold (37:12):
right?
Or maybe they could do amedicine ball slam something
where they don't have to catchit, but they can try and
demonstrate whatever power theyhave access to.
We're gonna find a way to dothat.
Right?
And you know, sometimes whenwe're talking about resiliency
or we're talking aboutconditioning, it's very clear if
you train a soccer player or abasketball player or a football
player, the needs and thedemands of their.

(37:35):
For a lot of our gym popclients, they need that general
aerobic development, right?
Or we're gonna create circuitsfor them.
So instead of, hey, just go, youknow, hit that bike for 30
minutes, we're gonna have themjust do a big circuit where they
drag a sled, uh, they carry, uh,a kettlebell in an offset
fashion.
Um, they're gonna maybe do somebiking in there.

(37:57):
You know, they're gonna do allof these like functional, active
movements for an extended periodof time.
So we check a lot of box.
We check the aerobic developmentbox.
We get them doing likefunctional activities that they
would do when they're outside.
Like one of our most amazingclients, nea, if she ever hears
this, she's like our officemanager.

(38:17):
We call her the queen.
Yes, love nea, but NEA loves togarden, so we have to prepare
her to condition for longperiods of time for garden.
right?
And so she loves the fact that,you know, I won't say her age on
here, but of all the women inher age group that she hangs out
with, she's the only one thatcan pick up 50 pound bags of

(38:38):
rocks and carry them when shegardens.
So it's stuff like that.
Uh, and so I think that's thefun thing about this is you're
not limited, right?
Nobody says that just becauseyou're over 40, you.
be explosive or you can't trainlike an athlete.
Like if you wanna leave it outcause the person isn't
interested in that, that's fine.
Um, but find ways to challengeall of the different domains of

(39:01):
fitness with your clients andathletes.
And you know, again it's easywith athletes cuz it just
intuitively makes sense.
But I think when you widen yourscope with your gen pop clients,
they really resonate with it.
Because a lot of times they justthink, oh, it's just going in
the gym and how much can I squator bench or deadlift?
Cuz they've been trained by apower lift.
There's nothing wrong withgetting stronger, but I think

(39:22):
health, wellness, fitness is amuch broader domain than just
get as strong as humanlypossible.

Robertson (39:29):
That's great.
That's great.
Uh, it, I love seeing the systemmindset in yourself, right?
And the way you developed this,there's, there's so many
positives to that for both you,your clients, your employees,
everybody.
I love that.
Um, Another area that we'restarting to apply some systems
at, at Champion is, is a littlebit in the sports science realm.
Um, and you know, I, I thoughtthis would be a good question to

(39:51):
ask for you because you've beendoing this for a long time.
Like you said, you've been doingthis for over 20 years and
things are changing.
Right.
And we're, we're starting to getmore to, you know, data science
and, you know, tracking trainingvariables and stuff like that.
How much has technology changedyou, yourself and i a s what you
guys do every day?
You know, things like forestplates, velocity based training,

(40:13):
anything else that you guysmight be using, but how much are
you incorporating technologyinto the gym now compared to
what you did at the beginning?

Reinold (40:19):
Oh, well first off, considering we had no technology
when we started, like

Robertson (40:24):
even have wifi

Reinold (40:26):
like it was Spartan.
People that came to Iast werelike, this is it.
Yeah, this is it.
We had three racks, uh, gold,Schwinn, Airine that we bought
off Craigslist for 200 bucks, aprowler and a 24 kilo
kettlebell.
That was it.
Uh, so it's, it's evolved, butlike, let me be really honest,
it's evolved a lot in the lasttwo to three years.
Um, So my background was insports science, right?

(40:50):
Like I got a master's degree inin sports biomechanics.
The downside was like nobody had50 K laying around to go buy an
in-ground force plate

Robertson (40:59):
True.

Reinold (41:00):
versus now, you know, whether it's vault or hawkin,
whatever, you know, system orgroup you go with, you can get a
really good set of force platesfor like 6,000 bucks.
And that may sound like a lot.
in the grand scheme, if you'rethinking the long term and being
able to, to track things for anextended period of time, the
amount of information you canpull from these things is

(41:21):
amazing.
I am very much in my infancy ofgetting back into this.
Uh, you can't see it, but I'vejust got like articles, you
know, I'm back to all thejournal articles and like
finding the references and, butI love it, right, because for.
The more I can get away fromjust the sep subjective part of,
oh, I feel like, or, oh, Ithink, no, I want more data

(41:45):
whenever possible.
Like, I'm not gonna take mycoach's eye and experience out
of it, but I wanna put itthrough a better, better filter
of, no, this is what it'sactually showing me.
Right.
So force plates very much intheir infancy.
We've used V V T, uh, using agym aware for at least the last
six or seven years.
Um, I love that.

(42:06):
I don't use it as much withcertain athletes because they're
just not as skilled with abarbell, right.
Or with some of the traditionalbarbell lifts, but definitely
with my guys that play football,rugby, that sort of thing.
Uh, the great thing about usingvelocity based training is it
takes all of the negotiation outof how heavy we should.

(42:27):
So like I got one guy inparticular, like the football
mentality is, yo bro, I benchedthree 15 last week.
I gotta do 3 25 this week.

Robertson (42:35):
right.

Reinold (42:36):
And so my retort now is, Hey man, if you can get 3 25
and you're in this zone, great,but if you're at 2 85 and you're
in this zone, you're stillgetting the training adaptation
that I want.

Robertson (42:46):
Yeah.

Reinold (42:46):
So it takes that negotiation out of it while also
simultaneously making surethey're working hard every
single.

Robertson (42:53):
Yeah.
The way they should be.

Reinold (42:55):
Yeah, exactly.
Um, even to the point now,partially based off of, uh, the
podcast you did with me on B FR, but you know, some of these,
like post rehab where they're,they're through the acute phase,
but maybe there's still somelagging, uh, muscle size issues.
We started using a lot more Bbfr this last off season, saw
some really good results withsome of our basketball guys.

(43:18):
You know, we had a, a basketballplayer we worked with who's had
a knee issue for like six.
And so he had one really juicyleft quad and re like stick
man's right, right quad.

Robertson (43:30):
It's, it's hard to get your quads wrong when your
knee hurts.

Reinold (43:33):
yeah, exactly right.
So as part of like a holisticprogram, you know, he was seeing
Bill and he got, you know, goodresets and we, we did some
things that we thought helpedimprove it, but we threw some B
F R in there.
So I think.
I think at this point in time,if you're leery or scared, it's
okay.
Right?
Because again, my degree is inthis, but 20 years ago, so I'm

(43:56):
leery and I'm scared, right?
But it's like, Hey man, we're,we're very much at the front of
this wave, so get on board now

Robertson (44:04):
Right.
I

Reinold (44:05):
stuff's only gonna get bigger and bigger the longer we
go.
uh, the, the real question willbe how much of it is valuable?
How much of it influences ourdecision making?
Um, how much of it is practical,right?
Because I'm not, you know,working for an N B A or an N F L
or Major League baseball team.
I don't have the same resources,but man, I think it's, as Drake

(44:26):
would say, it's what a time tobe alive.
Man.
There's so much cool stuff outthere that we can be learning
about to help us get betteranswers and dive deeper into
what really underpinsperformance for our.

Robertson (44:39):
Yeah.
And I, I, I think it fits the Rseven system, right?
Because you have those differentcomponents of athleticism and
how to use the body.
I mean, to be able to look atsomebody and say, you know what,
you're, you're pretty strong,but you don't move that.
Fast enough, or your rate offorce development's not what we
need it to be, or something likethat.
It's, it's, it's actually not aton of extra work on our end to

(45:00):
make some tweaks to a programthat could be gigantic to their
impact.
And, and that's, that'sexciting.

Reinold (45:06):
you're, you're not guessing anymore.
Right?
It's very clear.
And the great thing is if youtake the time to do this, more
time on the front end, yes.
But in general, when you takemore time on the front end,
you're more successful on theback end.
So now it gives me some greatconversation points.
So the guy that always justwants to bang heavy weights, you

(45:27):
know, just he wants to trainlike a power lifter, but he
plays football.
I can say, Hey, look dude,here's what I see, like your
dynamic strength.
like your reactivity, you needmore ballistics, you need more
power development.
The other guy that's like, oh, Idon't ever lift heavy.
Well his, you know, D S I islike 0.88.
I'm like, look dude, you can doall the bouncy, explosive stuff
you want.
Like, you just need to get alittle bit stronger.

(45:49):
So it allows me to have theseconversations, take my emotions
out of it, and hopefully come atthem with some like objective
science and say, Hey look,here's why I wanna do.
let's make some moves with yourprogram that will hopefully help
you see better results.

Robertson (46:05):
And again, buy-in is so easy when they can see it,
right?
It, it's easy.
I I They're starting to love ittoo, cuz once you get into a
facility that does this now,like, you know, our traditional
leader boards are all differentnowadays, right?
They're different and everybodyknows their numbers.
Right?
They're heck, I was just doingsome sprints in the timing gates
because all the, the, our proguys were egging me on to do it

(46:25):
and see, see to see what numberI can get and stuff.
And it was funny.
I get a governor switch that I'dnever had before, but I think
that, Parenting or something,but you, you know what I mean,
like that it's, it's soencouraging and then the
competitive nature of theseathletes comes out, but then you
put your normal adult fitnessclients on it, you know, to a, a
much smaller extent.
Right.
But we still try to use forceplates with them and stuff and,

(46:47):
um, their inner athlete comesout as well.
Right.
And, and they wanna see theprogress over time.
So, um, that's awesome.
So, g, good to hear the, uh, youknow, the, the way you guys have
been building that at Iast andreally appreciate you taking the
time out to, to kind of breakdown some of these things.
I think this is veryeducational.
Um, I, I, I think you're one ofthe best educational resources

(47:07):
out there, Mike.
I, I, I know you, I, I tell youthat all the time, but, um, if
you haven't yet, be sure tocheck out Mike's stuff.
Uh, his complete coachingcertification is a great start
to learn all these things.
His podcast is amazing too.
But Mike, before we let you go,I'd like to end with a little
high five.
Do you do this in yours?

Reinold (47:24):
I just call it the lightning round.
I like the high five though.
The high five is

Robertson (47:28):
don't, I get some sol.
I see.
I think you and I are a littledorky in the same extent
sometimes, but like I get somesolid like eye rolls to that
sometimes, but, um, but yeah, FIfive, que five.
Yeah.
Great.
Five quick questions, five quickanswers and really, you know,
they're design, like I wannalearn more about you, growth
mindset, stuff like that.
But, um, what are you currentlyworking on for your own

(47:48):
professional development rightnow?

Reinold (47:50):
Mm-hmm.
Just, just the force platestuff, dude.

Robertson (47:52):
I was gonna say that you just kind of said it.
You see you're a pile ofresearch articles behind you,

Reinold (47:56):
yeah.
Literally.
I mean, it's like every.
I mean, this is the nerd in meright now.
It's like one a night,

Robertson (48:02):
That's pretty bad.

Reinold (48:03):
find a couple, uh, references.
So I'm always finding somethingnew to, to read about.
But

Robertson (48:08):
I like how you're pr, you're printing'em out still.
You're highlighted.
I

Reinold (48:11):
I'm old school dude.
I can't do it.
I can't do it.
I can't read it on an iPad.
Just doesn't work man.

Robertson (48:16):
I don't know.
These things are pretty cool.
You

Reinold (48:19):
They are

Robertson (48:19):
the, you should check these out.
I don't know.
You add the apple pencil to youriPad and you'll never go back.
You'll never

Reinold (48:26):
All right.
I don't have the apple pencil.
Maybe I need to go there.

Robertson (48:29):
oh man.
Re annotating and stuff on that.
It's just magical.
But anyway, sorry.
Um, what is one thing thatyou've recently changed your
mind about?

Reinold (48:37):
Hmm.

Robertson (48:39):
I'm gonna have to edit out the silence

Reinold (48:41):
Yeah, then.
No, no, I, I think that's where,you know, for me, it's like just
coming back to like, I don'twant to say I was a verse.
To some of the sports sciencestuff two to three years ago.
It's just like, I didn't see howI could make it.
I didn't see practically how itwould work.
Right.
In the sense that I justeconomically, like if you, if

(49:02):
you own a small business or youown a small gym,$6,000 might
seem like a large amount ofmoney until I started to think
about, yeah, but how much betteris this gonna make every
program, how much.
Uh, sellable.
I don't know if that's theappropriate word, but like how
much easier will be I, I be ableto sell everything that we do in
our gym when I can show peoplehardline data and objective,

(49:26):
objective data that shows them,hey, this is where you're at.
And give them a very clear pathon this is what we need to do to
get you to where you want to be.

Robertson (49:34):
Yeah.
I mean, that's priceless, right?

Reinold (49:36):
Yeah, absolutely.

Robertson (49:37):
you know, I like it.
Um, what's your favorite pieceof advice that you give to, uh,
interns at your facility?

Reinold (49:43):
Be patient.
They hate it.
You know, it's, it's like thecoming back to the start, like
it just takes reps.
Nobody likes to hear that.
Nobody likes to hear, Hey, cometalk to me in 10 years and tell
me how much different you are asa coach, as a clinician.
Right.
you just can't fathom it untilyou have 10 years of wins and

(50:06):
losses in your belt, you know?
And it's, it's not perfect.
It's not the fairytale, youknow, like the R seven
fairytale.
It's not that.
You know, it takes 10 years ofwins and losses, and then you're
like, no, now I'm starting toget it.
And then the next 10, you'relike, okay.
But I think that's what thepeople that stick around, like
you're driven by the wins, maybeeven more driven and motivated

(50:28):
by the loss.
because those are real learningopportunities, right?
When you start to think of it inthat lens of like, Hey man,
everybody mistake, everybodymakes mistakes, everybody takes
losses, but man, those are,those are opportunities for
massive growth and massivelearning.
So when you kind of start tothink like that, it makes
everything easier.

Robertson (50:47):
I like it.
You're starting to get wise,Mike.
That's wisdom right there,

Reinold (50:50):
I'm trying, man.
I'm trying definitely not younganymore, so,

Robertson (50:56):
Right.
Well, what's coming up next foryour old self, Mike?
What's, what's, uh, what, whatcan we look forward to from you?

Reinold (51:03):
Uh, so I think one of the big things that I'm focused
on this year, there's a coupleone in-person seminars.
So I did three of what I justdescribed as my Complete Coach
seminars last year.
I did one in Huntsville, I didone in Slovenia, and I did one
in West Hartford, Connecticut.
This year I've got one on tapfor Seattle at Luca ha's gym,

(51:25):
and I'm looking to add maybe oneor two more to that.
So I love in-person seminars.
I'm glad we're finally back in aday and age where we can do
those.
So I love that.
Uh, really trying to do, getback to my roots as far as
content creation, I think it'seasy to get away from it.
But, you know, I love thepodcast.
I love videos.
I'm getting back to writingmore.

(51:46):
Uh, and, and honestly, I don'tcare if anybody read.
It helps me.
It helps me process andstreamline my thoughts.
And I think it just, you talkabout communication and
presentation, part of it'sbecause I sat in front of a
keyboard, like just mulling oversomething for an hour or two and
like, oh no.
Now I get why I do that.

(52:06):
Right.
And I can explain it.
So just getting back to contentcreation and.
always like, again, I've said itlike three times now, but the
sports science stuff, dude, it'sjust like the next thing for me.
Like I feel like I'm prettyconfident in my ability to watch
somebody move and coach and cuethem effectively.
So how can I get betterdiagnostically and be more
precise with my programs, withthe activities that I'm

(52:28):
prescribing?
So, man, lots on the plate,dude.
I mean, I'm just, I don't know.
I'm excited to be here, man.

Robertson (52:37):
I love it.
So how can people learn moreabout you?
What's your best resources?
Like your website, your socials?
Where, where do you wanna sendpeople?

Reinold (52:44):
Yep.
So I always give people twooptions.
If you're new to me, new to thegame, you just wanna see more of
what I've done, go to Robertsontraining systems.com.
I'm not joking when I saythousands of pieces of content,
blogs, articles, podcasts,videos, like there's so much
content there.
You could go there every day foryears.

(53:05):
and find something new.
So if you want free stuff, go torobertson training systems.com.
If you're a trainer, coach,rehab professional that wants to
really dive into my system andhow I do things, go to complete
coach certification.com cuzthat's basically the mother
load, right?
It's how I look at anatomy andmovement.
Assessments, uh, program design,coaching and queuing

(53:26):
progressions and regressions.
Like, there's just so muchcontent there, but I think it's
packaged in a really uniform andseamless fashion to where you
could take a long weekend, gothrough all of it, and hopefully
come out on the back end and bea better coach or practitioner
as a result.
So those are the two bestplaces, man.

Robertson (53:43):
Yeah, and I, you know, I've been following you
for, for forever, so I agree.
All those great resources havebeen through your program, so I,
I, I couldn't recommend'emenough.
So, uh, thanks so much, Mike.
Really appreciate you having uson our, uh, you being on the
podcast.
I told I'm still getting used tothis interview thing, but
thanks, thanks for, thanks forcoming on the podcast today.

Reinold (54:01):
Yeah.
Thanks for having me, man.
I appreciate it.