July 29, 2025 • 23 mins
In this actionable episode, Devin Sizemore, Owner of Devin Sizemore Consulting, shares a system for building a predictable referral strategy. If you struggle with inconsistent client leads, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
- Why referrals outperform other business development strategies
- How to change your ask to unlock network potential
- What many-to-many relationships do for sustainable growth
This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stages 2,3 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz
Devin Sizemore pursues meaningful personal and professional experiences with passion. He has spent his career building and growing businesses that align with his values. Devin launched his first marketing agency right out of college and went on to create innovative consulting practices and a cat cafe, all driven by his commitment to "adding value" and making a positive impact. He believes in the power of connections and dedicates himself to helping others succeed by building relationships. He now focuses on fostering a community where one million connections create lasting, transformative change.
Want to learn more about Devin Sizemore's work at Devin Sizemore Consulting? Check out his website at connectionexpansion.com and get a copy of his book at https://www.amazon.com/Connection-Expansion-Massive-Success-Business/dp/196391158X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hello, hello and welcome.
Welcome once again to this Start, Scale and Succeed podcast, the only podcast that growswith you through all seven stages of your journey as a founder.
And I have been super excited about this episode.
Full disclosure, I actually prepared for it a week in advance because I thought it wascoming sooner.
(00:23):
So I've had a whole week of anticipation around it.
And it's a seemingly trivial issue that some of you may be like, oh yeah, of course.
But there's so much depth here and practicality, you're just gonna love it.
So what are we gonna talk about?
We're gonna talk about referrals and not just kind of any referral strategy, but a reallyclever one that I'm sure you're gonna love.
(00:47):
So for those of you listening, you're in maybe stage two, startup entrepreneur, even instage three and you haven't built a strong.
recurring mechanism for bringing in new work, particularly for those of you who are inservice-based businesses uh or rely heavily on word of mouth advertising referrals, this
(01:07):
is going to be an absolute uh game changer for you because with us today is the one andonly Devin Sizemore who pursues meaningful personal and professional experiences with
passion.
He's spent his career building and growing businesses that align with his values.
Devin launched his first marketing agency right out of college and went on to createinnovative consulting practices and a cat cafe, all driven by his commitment to adding
(01:36):
value and making a positive impact.
He believes in the power of connection and dedicates himself to helping others succeed bybuilding relationships.
He now focuses on fostering a community with 1 million connections where they can createlasting, transformative change.
And he's here with us today, Devin.
So excited to have you here.
(01:57):
In your book, you open up with one of my favorite intros, not so much because it's likesuper like clever edge of your seat, but it is like nail on the head, the exact problem
that like just about everyone listening is facing.
And that is a dilemma that again, we just all face.
So what's the dilemma and what can we do about it?
(02:19):
Yeah, Scott, thanks so much for having me, man.
I appreciate you and uh glad you're able to get into the book.
So yeah, you're referencing the referral dilemma and it is something that all businessowners face.
uh When I go to a room and I ask, you know who in here loves word of mouth that everyoneraises their hand, right?
Would you want more of it?
Yeah, of course.
Everybody does.
Right.
(02:39):
This seems like something that's a no brainer.
But then when we dig into what's your system, what's your process?
Is it predictable?
The answers start to become no, maybe, it's all fluffy.
And that's really what we went out to solve seven years ago was how do we build a systemthat's scalable, duplicatable, and predictable around this thing about referrals and
(03:03):
connections and thus solve the referral dilemma, right?
You want more, how do you get it?
That's exactly what the book talks about.
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
It's so true.
I had a client once and they actually, they said this about their hiring process, but itapplies to most folks' referral strategies.
And I asked them like, what's your strategy for hiring?
And they said, post and hope.
(03:24):
We put up a job description and hope that somebody responds.
And in many ways it's like, you know, there's this like,
almost this, you build it, they will come mentality.
If I do a great job, everyone will talk about me.
And to some extent, there's some truth to that, but you can accelerate it quite a lot witha good system.
uh So before we get into kind of the nuts and bolts of the system, I wanna take just abrief moment on uh why in particular you chose to focus on referrals.
(03:55):
There's lots of business development strategies out there.
Why referrals?
Yeah, another good question.
When I had my marketing agency, found myself, like many of your listeners, maybe in acrowded marketplace, highly competitive, very doggy dog, everyone just trying to compete,
very scarcity mindset.
And what I realized is that there had to be another way.
(04:17):
And so I started getting on stages and doing presentations.
So went after the visibility plus credibility equals profitability strategy, and thatworked.
But I also want to figure out how do we change the game with networking and networkbuilding so we can control the process in a way that's comfortable and everybody wins.
(04:37):
And what I started to realize is that my key to success was adding value to others.
And when I did that and I followed up and I did it forever, I started to get it in return.
And my calendar was full and it continued to be full.
And I started to realize, wow, there's actually a system here that's predictable.
And the reason why I love connections is it's edified and endorsed introductions to you.
(05:01):
So whether you're exploring in prospects, strategic partnerships, joint ventures,affiliate marketing, looking for new employees, doesn't matter what you're looking for.
If you have a dynamite network where you've added value, anything and everything you wantis inside that network when you need it.
And that to me is what we've spent, you know, a decade building and why I believe inconnection and referrals over almost if not any other strategy.
(05:25):
Yeah, I love that.
Now, we've a lot of folks listening have probably heard your network is your net worth andthere's a huge advantage to people who are launching out on, know, with an established
network.
But that's not the case for all founders.
Maybe it's that the timing wasn't driven by them, you know, it's like they were just kindof thrust into it.
(05:48):
Or maybe like myself, you just did not recognize the need for a big network beforelaunching.
when I launched uh this second business.
And so they might be sitting there thinking, yeah, referrals would be great, but like, Idon't have a big network.
How big does your network have to be to be able to create a strong referral strategy andleverage it?
(06:11):
Yeah, you only need one meeting with one person to start the process.
I usually end episodes here, but we'll go here.
So the power of one is something I like to let people hear.
You don't need a huge network.
You don't need a ton of people who know, like, and trust you.
You literally need to be able to book one meeting with one person.
And it doesn't even matter who the person is because when you follow the connectionmeeting framework and then you follow up and add value after,
(06:36):
you start to create the process, right?
When you make the three intros and you nurture and love on that person, you're gonna getone or two intros back.
That's gonna start the momentum.
Now, if you have 10, 20, 30, 40 people we can start the process with, great.
It'll create more momentum.
If you can go to a networking event, you can start it.
So you can start with no network, a little network, or those of you who are listening whogo, have a highly established network, but it's not doing much for me.
(07:00):
This system works for you too.
Yeah, that's gotta be great news to just about everyone listening.
So let's roll with that then.
Let's say we have one connection and we've gotta get it right, know, and just making alittle fun at it.
But we wanna start rolling this out.
What's the first step in, and I'll let you answer this one of two ways, either what's thefirst step in setting up the process so that we can do this right over time, or what is
(07:27):
the first step of the process and how do we leverage the power of one?
Yeah, so the first thing you have to do is change your ask.
And we have to start here because this is what unlocks the potential in your network andwith the connections you're going to get.
And so what I mean by that is when I ask people, hey Scott, who do you want to meet?
Typically the response is your ideal client profile.
(07:48):
That's where most people default to.
That's where marketing and sales lives.
Great.
Makes total sense.
The issue is if I tell you, Scott, this is who I want to know, and I give you my idealclient profile, you now have to go through your whole network, find those exact people.
figure out if they're ready for what I offer, make an introduction where they're gonna besold.
There's so many hurdles there.
(08:08):
There's so much friction in what I just said.
So if we change the ask, what we do, and this is what's explained in the connectionexpansion exercise, we take your ideal client, we expand it to the vendors where they seek
education and it's six other buckets, and it allows us to change our ask.
So you could say, hey, Devin, who do you wanna connect with?
I say, mastermind hosts are brilliant.
I love connecting with mastermind hosts because we can mutually add value to each other'sworlds.
(08:30):
We can open doors for each other.
can collaborate.
When I give you that ask, instantly you can go to any mastermind host or community host orevent host in your network and go, hell yeah, I'll connect, Evan, no big deal.
Because there's no tension of being sold, there's all opportunity for partnership.
By changing our ask, it unlocks the follow-up process when we meet the one person, becausethen when they say, who do you want to know?
(08:54):
We can give them an ask that's easier for them to fulfill on.
Plus, when we follow up to make connections, we're going to use the same process.
to make sure that we're making connections for other people.
So that's step one is you have to shift your ask and shift how you're growing yournetwork.
Right.
That actually brings me, one of the things that stood out to me uh in the book was thisidea that uh a strong referral system is a many to many relationship builder.
(09:21):
And I think that's not how a lot of folks think about it.
They think of referrals as one to many, like how can I get to meet more people?
So what's the difference between those two approaches and why does it matter?
Yeah, so one to one, if we start there, right, is like a client referring you to someoneor you finding one prospect.
It's just you and a person.
(09:41):
One to many tends to move into the referral partner relationship as most people considerit, right?
I find a referral partner who can refer me to a handful of clients, right?
Great, we all like those.
Where I do workshops and where people have their kind of light bulb moment is when then wego to mini to mini.
And so the idea this would be, let's say a business CPA is a great referral partner foryou.
(10:04):
We then go back through the connection expansion exercise and we look for where dobusiness CPAs gather?
Where do they seek education?
Where do they spend money?
Who has influence over them?
Who do they trust?
And who's a connector that has a lot of business CPAs?
If we or you could find yourself in a room.
where you are edified, you're the authority, and you're in front of a room full ofreferral partners, that's a mini strategy.
(10:27):
Because now by being in that room, you're creating a room full of advocates for you andyour business that you can nurture, which then have access to dozens or hundreds or
thousands of clients, right?
That's the mini mini strategy.
So many people stop with the referral part.
We go a level deeper because if we find one of those, it unlocks the future for mostpeople's business.
(10:48):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So.
um
We've opened the door, we've had the conversation.
uh What are some of the things that we tend to get wrong uh when walking into, let's saywe've got the right ask, but what are some of the things we still tend to get wrong when
(11:10):
we go into the conversation itself?
Yeah, it usually starts with the networking, the follow-up, and the meeting.
There's language that goes sideways in all of those moments.
And it goes sideways when you start selling.
And so I like to call this commission breath, right?
When you show up at a networking event just trying to close people, or you follow up froma networking event and your email is very salesy or benefit feature focused, or you show
(11:35):
up to a connection meeting where you're supposed to just meeting and build relationships,and instead you start selling or positioning awkwardly.
All of those things are going to sabotage your ability to build a long-term lastingrelationship and uncover all the other potential that you don't know about the person
you're meeting.
And so I like to share the one follow-up script because I think it highlights this.
(11:55):
So, you when I follow up from a networking event, the script is, Scott, it was greatseeing you at the Chamber event yesterday.
I enjoyed learning about you and your business.
Love to schedule a time to learn more about you and your business so I can makeconnections for you.
Here's link to my calendar.
look forward to connecting with you.
Nothing in my follow-up messaging has to do with what I sell, who I am, or why I'm great.
It has to do with the other person and the value you're bringing.
(12:16):
That's the key.
But so many people go wrong because they default to trying to sell something or positionor having their ask too early in the process.
Don't do that.
Focus on the other person and watch the magic happen.
Yeah.
So one of the things that happens, especially early in the process, especially if we justhave our one connection and we've got to get a lot out of it, there can be a pressure,
(12:38):
right?
It's like, I got to get the next deal to drop.
And so we can feel this enormous amount of pressure to say like, hey, this has to have areturn on investment.
I got to get something out of this.
I got to land the next deal.
How do you resist that temptation uh when you're engaging in these connectionconversations?
Yeah, momentum and volume always win.
(12:59):
And so when we look at sales, right, so often we approach it with the scarcity mindsetthat every meeting, everything has to close a deal because there's not abundance.
We have so many meetings and so much pipeline and so do all my clients.
I don't care if it turns into it because I know what will come of it is better referrals,more connections, more strategic partnerships, more opportunity.
(13:22):
And again, if you go in...
only looking for the sale.
What happens is you go on with your blinders on, right?
You start making assumptions and the saying about assumptions is you make an ass out ofyou and me, right?
So when I go into a meeting assuming, I miss all the opportunity.
I don't know what your spouse does, what your family does, what your brother, sister,cousin, uncle does.
I don't know what your friends do, what your past businesses, what your future goals are.
(13:42):
I know nothing about you.
And if I'm only focused on qualifying you to buy something, I miss all the otheropportunity where you could say, Hey, Devin, you know what?
I'm not a client.
But you know what my best friend does host an amazing mastermind.
They're looking for a speaker at their next retreat.
I'd love to connect you.
Great.
I'm so glad I had an open conversation where instead of just trying to chase you down thisroad where you were never going to spend money, you went, you know what?
(14:08):
can help you.
Here's how.
And so, yes, I get it.
You have to close deals.
What you'll find is when you position better and you build meaningful relationships,people will raise their hand and ask to buy.
You don't even have to sell.
um But it is definitely a trust the process moment and message where you need to book themeetings, you need to add the value, you need to make the connections, and you need to let
(14:30):
momentum kick in.
When momentum kicks in, I promise doors will open, you can't fathom.
Yeah, I love that.
There's another element to this that I see in a lot of uh folks in this kind ofentrepreneur mode.
And there's this temptation to, I think it's because of a pursuit of like leverage andlike the feeling of momentum to try and do it like many to many in terms of how we
(14:54):
communicate across the board.
And so we sit behind a computer and we type up emails and we do Facebook posts and we doall this other stuff.
But I would
I think at this point, I would say that robs us of our biggest advantage, which is us inperson, in the flesh, if you will, and puts us into that sea you talked about earlier of
(15:16):
everyone saying everything and it's just noise.
So in your book, it seems like we're very aligned around this, is the need for realconversations, right?
So why is it not enough to do all this through emails or better yet, what does this looklike in the Zoom era?
Yeah, so the system works really good virtually and in person.
(15:38):
So that's good to qualify for people.
I have a client real time, we did training on this today where there's 22, 23 connectionsgoing to this client.
And they looked at their calendar and went, man, that's a lot of 30 minute meetings toqualify them for my offerings or decide what's next.
Can we just push them all to a webinar?
I said, sure, we could, but you're going to get a much smaller close rate and you miss allof the additional opportunity that we just got done discussing, right?
(16:04):
Because in a 30 minute one-to-one meeting where I talk about what are you doing and whoare you targeting?
How did you get here?
Where are you going?
What's in the way and how can I help you?
That gives me information to really figure out, can we collaborate?
Can I open doors for you?
Can you open doors for me?
Do you need to buy my product or service?
Do I need your product?
There's so much more that we can discover.
And so the really big key to relationship building is you need to get into meetings.
(16:29):
And that's why everything around the system
creates language that makes it easy for people to meet with you.
Since we've been on, which is not long, I've already seen two notifications for meetingsbooked, and that's sending a templated email follow-up that says, look forward to meeting
with you.
So you don't have to do anything crazy for the process to work.
(16:51):
So one of the places that I've seen this fall flat is we kind of start off with a bang,reach out to as many people as I possibly can, and then we end up either distracted by
some shiny object or just bored with reaching out.
And so if we're gonna make this sustainable and referable, it can't be a one-time thing.
(17:12):
What has to happen to really be able to sustain this and the results from it over time?
Yeah, so the system we use touches people forever, right?
And so our nurture process, every six weeks for the rest of your life, you're gonna get anemail, right?
And the email is gonna say, hey Scott, I hope you're doing well and having a great day.
It's been a while since we last connected.
What's new and exciting in your world?
(17:34):
Any new challenges?
What connections can I make for you?
I look forward to hearing back from you.
If I don't wanna take a meeting, that's what it would say.
Sometimes I'll add in a sentence that says, hey, it's been a while, let's catch up.
Here's a link to my calendar.
We're gonna nurture forever.
And so everything we do,
It works best if you use it exactly as prescribed and exactly how it's presented.
We use the exact templates that we share.
(17:54):
We don't adjust them.
There's no magic sauce.
The magic comes from volume and time.
And that's where if you compound it today, it will pan out, right?
And so three weeks ago, we had 54 inbound connections come in.
I don't know about you guys, but if I had 54 people I could meet with,
you will find opportunity in there, right?
(18:15):
You're gonna find clients, you're gonna find partnerships, you're gonna find events.
How many connections are you getting a week is the question.
If you're not happy with the answer, start the process and then nurture people foreverbecause you don't wanna build a big database, which people have huge CRM, lots and
thousands of people in it that's doing nothing for you, right?
(18:35):
I want a database that's producing ongoing connections, producing referrals.
producing opportunities, even if people in there are trying to sell me something, at leastthey're communicating with me.
And we can have conversation, pull them back into a meeting and reset.
So you got to play the long game.
You have to task manage appropriately.
And when you start playing the long game, that's where you start to realize you can levelup in big, big ways.
(18:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
Devon, there's a question that I like to ask all my guests.
I'm interested to see what you have to say.
And it is this, what would you say is the biggest secret that you wish wasn't a secret atall?
What's that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Yeah, I'm going to just go to a core principle.
There's two of them, so I'm going to cheat.
(19:19):
I put a slide up, and I've always had this slide.
It's a cup of coffee and a book.
The cup of coffee is meet everyone.
The book is don't judge anyone.
You have to be open to just meeting everybody.
There's value in every relationship, and I need you to buy into that because my biggestdeals, best friendships, my inner circle have all been developed from really unique and
crazy places.
(19:39):
Don't judge anyone.
Meet every.
Yeah, so true, so true.
Devin, ah there's some folks listening that love help getting the referral strategy offthe ground.
They want a consistent flow.
They'd love to hear more about the work that you do.
Where can they find out more?
For sure, so can grab a copy of the Connection Expansion book on Amazon in all formats.
There's also an audio book if you'd like to listen to me talk about it for an hour and 54minutes.
(20:04):
You can also go to connectionexpansion.com.
You can learn about our Connection group, more about our system.
There's a ton of free education, more templates, and a whole lot of more information inthere.
Those are great places to start.
Otherwise, just Google me and I'm sure you can find.
Fantastic, fantastic.
Well, thanks for being here.
It was a privilege and having you on the show.
Loved this episode, loved the book, highly, highly recommend it.
(20:26):
And for those of you watching and listening, you know your time and attention mean theworld to us.
I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did and I cannot wait to seeyou next time.
Take care.
Hello, hello and welcome.
Welcome once again to this Start, Scale and Succeed podcast, the only podcast that growswith you through all seven stages of your journey as a founder.
And I have been super excited about this episode.
Full disclosure, I actually prepared for it a week in advance because I thought it wascoming sooner.
(00:23):
So I've had a whole week of anticipation around it.
And it's a seemingly trivial issue that some of you may be like, oh yeah, of course.
But there's so much depth here and practicality, you're just gonna love it.
So what are we gonna talk about?
We're gonna talk about referrals and not just kind of any referral strategy, but a reallyclever one that I'm sure you're gonna love.
(00:47):
So for those of you listening, you're in maybe stage two, startup entrepreneur, even instage three and you haven't built a strong.
recurring mechanism for bringing in new work, particularly for those of you who are inservice-based businesses uh or rely heavily on word of mouth advertising referrals, this
(01:07):
is going to be an absolute uh game changer for you because with us today is the one andonly Devin Sizemore who pursues meaningful personal and professional experiences with
passion.
He's spent his career building and growing businesses that align with his values.
Devin launched his first marketing agency right out of college and went on to createinnovative consulting practices and a cat cafe, all driven by his commitment to adding
(01:36):
value and making a positive impact.
He believes in the power of connection and dedicates himself to helping others succeed bybuilding relationships.
He now focuses on fostering a community with 1 million connections where they can createlasting, transformative change.
And he's here with us today, Devin.
So excited to have you here.
(01:57):
In your book, you open up with one of my favorite intros, not so much because it's likesuper like clever edge of your seat, but it is like nail on the head, the exact problem
that like just about everyone listening is facing.
And that is a dilemma that again, we just all face.
So what's the dilemma and what can we do about it?
(02:19):
Yeah, Scott, thanks so much for having me, man.
I appreciate you and uh glad you're able to get into the book.
So yeah, you're referencing the referral dilemma and it is something that all businessowners face.
uh When I go to a room and I ask, you know who in here loves word of mouth that everyoneraises their hand, right?
Would you want more of it?
Yeah, of course.
Everybody does.
Right.
(02:39):
This seems like something that's a no brainer.
But then when we dig into what's your system, what's your process?
Is it predictable?
The answers start to become no, maybe, it's all fluffy.
And that's really what we went out to solve seven years ago was how do we build a systemthat's scalable, duplicatable, and predictable around this thing about referrals and
(03:03):
connections and thus solve the referral dilemma, right?
You want more, how do you get it?
That's exactly what the book talks about.
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
It's so true.
I had a client once and they actually, they said this about their hiring process, but itapplies to most folks' referral strategies.
And I asked them like, what's your strategy for hiring?
And they said, post and hope.
(03:24):
We put up a job description and hope that somebody responds.
And in many ways it's like, you know, there's this like,
almost this, you build it, they will come mentality.
If I do a great job, everyone will talk about me.
And to some extent, there's some truth to that, but you can accelerate it quite a lot witha good system.
uh So before we get into kind of the nuts and bolts of the system, I wanna take just abrief moment on uh why in particular you chose to focus on referrals.
(03:55):
There's lots of business development strategies out there.
Why referrals?
Yeah, another good question.
When I had my marketing agency, found myself, like many of your listeners, maybe in acrowded marketplace, highly competitive, very doggy dog, everyone just trying to compete,
very scarcity mindset.
And what I realized is that there had to be another way.
(04:17):
And so I started getting on stages and doing presentations.
So went after the visibility plus credibility equals profitability strategy, and thatworked.
But I also want to figure out how do we change the game with networking and networkbuilding so we can control the process in a way that's comfortable and everybody wins.
(04:37):
And what I started to realize is that my key to success was adding value to others.
And when I did that and I followed up and I did it forever, I started to get it in return.
And my calendar was full and it continued to be full.
And I started to realize, wow, there's actually a system here that's predictable.
And the reason why I love connections is it's edified and endorsed introductions to you.
(05:01):
So whether you're exploring in prospects, strategic partnerships, joint ventures,affiliate marketing, looking for new employees, doesn't matter what you're looking for.
If you have a dynamite network where you've added value, anything and everything you wantis inside that network when you need it.
And that to me is what we've spent, you know, a decade building and why I believe inconnection and referrals over almost if not any other strategy.
(05:25):
Yeah, I love that.
Now, we've a lot of folks listening have probably heard your network is your net worth andthere's a huge advantage to people who are launching out on, know, with an established
network.
But that's not the case for all founders.
Maybe it's that the timing wasn't driven by them, you know, it's like they were just kindof thrust into it.
(05:48):
Or maybe like myself, you just did not recognize the need for a big network beforelaunching.
when I launched uh this second business.
And so they might be sitting there thinking, yeah, referrals would be great, but like, Idon't have a big network.
How big does your network have to be to be able to create a strong referral strategy andleverage it?
(06:11):
Yeah, you only need one meeting with one person to start the process.
I usually end episodes here, but we'll go here.
So the power of one is something I like to let people hear.
You don't need a huge network.
You don't need a ton of people who know, like, and trust you.
You literally need to be able to book one meeting with one person.
And it doesn't even matter who the person is because when you follow the connectionmeeting framework and then you follow up and add value after,
(06:36):
you start to create the process, right?
When you make the three intros and you nurture and love on that person, you're gonna getone or two intros back.
That's gonna start the momentum.
Now, if you have 10, 20, 30, 40 people we can start the process with, great.
It'll create more momentum.
If you can go to a networking event, you can start it.
So you can start with no network, a little network, or those of you who are listening whogo, have a highly established network, but it's not doing much for me.
(07:00):
This system works for you too.
Yeah, that's gotta be great news to just about everyone listening.
So let's roll with that then.
Let's say we have one connection and we've gotta get it right, know, and just making alittle fun at it.
But we wanna start rolling this out.
What's the first step in, and I'll let you answer this one of two ways, either what's thefirst step in setting up the process so that we can do this right over time, or what is
(07:27):
the first step of the process and how do we leverage the power of one?
Yeah, so the first thing you have to do is change your ask.
And we have to start here because this is what unlocks the potential in your network andwith the connections you're going to get.
And so what I mean by that is when I ask people, hey Scott, who do you want to meet?
Typically the response is your ideal client profile.
(07:48):
That's where most people default to.
That's where marketing and sales lives.
Great.
Makes total sense.
The issue is if I tell you, Scott, this is who I want to know, and I give you my idealclient profile, you now have to go through your whole network, find those exact people.
figure out if they're ready for what I offer, make an introduction where they're gonna besold.
There's so many hurdles there.
(08:08):
There's so much friction in what I just said.
So if we change the ask, what we do, and this is what's explained in the connectionexpansion exercise, we take your ideal client, we expand it to the vendors where they seek
education and it's six other buckets, and it allows us to change our ask.
So you could say, hey, Devin, who do you wanna connect with?
I say, mastermind hosts are brilliant.
I love connecting with mastermind hosts because we can mutually add value to each other'sworlds.
(08:30):
We can open doors for each other.
can collaborate.
When I give you that ask, instantly you can go to any mastermind host or community host orevent host in your network and go, hell yeah, I'll connect, Evan, no big deal.
Because there's no tension of being sold, there's all opportunity for partnership.
By changing our ask, it unlocks the follow-up process when we meet the one person, becausethen when they say, who do you want to know?
(08:54):
We can give them an ask that's easier for them to fulfill on.
Plus, when we follow up to make connections, we're going to use the same process.
to make sure that we're making connections for other people.
So that's step one is you have to shift your ask and shift how you're growing yournetwork.
Right.
That actually brings me, one of the things that stood out to me uh in the book was thisidea that uh a strong referral system is a many to many relationship builder.
(09:21):
And I think that's not how a lot of folks think about it.
They think of referrals as one to many, like how can I get to meet more people?
So what's the difference between those two approaches and why does it matter?
Yeah, so one to one, if we start there, right, is like a client referring you to someoneor you finding one prospect.
It's just you and a person.
(09:41):
One to many tends to move into the referral partner relationship as most people considerit, right?
I find a referral partner who can refer me to a handful of clients, right?
Great, we all like those.
Where I do workshops and where people have their kind of light bulb moment is when then wego to mini to mini.
And so the idea this would be, let's say a business CPA is a great referral partner foryou.
(10:04):
We then go back through the connection expansion exercise and we look for where dobusiness CPAs gather?
Where do they seek education?
Where do they spend money?
Who has influence over them?
Who do they trust?
And who's a connector that has a lot of business CPAs?
If we or you could find yourself in a room.
where you are edified, you're the authority, and you're in front of a room full ofreferral partners, that's a mini strategy.
(10:27):
Because now by being in that room, you're creating a room full of advocates for you andyour business that you can nurture, which then have access to dozens or hundreds or
thousands of clients, right?
That's the mini mini strategy.
So many people stop with the referral part.
We go a level deeper because if we find one of those, it unlocks the future for mostpeople's business.
(10:48):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So.
um
We've opened the door, we've had the conversation.
uh What are some of the things that we tend to get wrong uh when walking into, let's saywe've got the right ask, but what are some of the things we still tend to get wrong when
(11:10):
we go into the conversation itself?
Yeah, it usually starts with the networking, the follow-up, and the meeting.
There's language that goes sideways in all of those moments.
And it goes sideways when you start selling.
And so I like to call this commission breath, right?
When you show up at a networking event just trying to close people, or you follow up froma networking event and your email is very salesy or benefit feature focused, or you show
(11:35):
up to a connection meeting where you're supposed to just meeting and build relationships,and instead you start selling or positioning awkwardly.
All of those things are going to sabotage your ability to build a long-term lastingrelationship and uncover all the other potential that you don't know about the person
you're meeting.
And so I like to share the one follow-up script because I think it highlights this.
(11:55):
So, you when I follow up from a networking event, the script is, Scott, it was greatseeing you at the Chamber event yesterday.
I enjoyed learning about you and your business.
Love to schedule a time to learn more about you and your business so I can makeconnections for you.
Here's link to my calendar.
look forward to connecting with you.
Nothing in my follow-up messaging has to do with what I sell, who I am, or why I'm great.
It has to do with the other person and the value you're bringing.
(12:16):
That's the key.
But so many people go wrong because they default to trying to sell something or positionor having their ask too early in the process.
Don't do that.
Focus on the other person and watch the magic happen.
Yeah.
So one of the things that happens, especially early in the process, especially if we justhave our one connection and we've got to get a lot out of it, there can be a pressure,
(12:38):
right?
It's like, I got to get the next deal to drop.
And so we can feel this enormous amount of pressure to say like, hey, this has to have areturn on investment.
I got to get something out of this.
I got to land the next deal.
How do you resist that temptation uh when you're engaging in these connectionconversations?
Yeah, momentum and volume always win.
(12:59):
And so when we look at sales, right, so often we approach it with the scarcity mindsetthat every meeting, everything has to close a deal because there's not abundance.
We have so many meetings and so much pipeline and so do all my clients.
I don't care if it turns into it because I know what will come of it is better referrals,more connections, more strategic partnerships, more opportunity.
(13:22):
And again, if you go in...
only looking for the sale.
What happens is you go on with your blinders on, right?
You start making assumptions and the saying about assumptions is you make an ass out ofyou and me, right?
So when I go into a meeting assuming, I miss all the opportunity.
I don't know what your spouse does, what your family does, what your brother, sister,cousin, uncle does.
I don't know what your friends do, what your past businesses, what your future goals are.
(13:42):
I know nothing about you.
And if I'm only focused on qualifying you to buy something, I miss all the otheropportunity where you could say, Hey, Devin, you know what?
I'm not a client.
But you know what my best friend does host an amazing mastermind.
They're looking for a speaker at their next retreat.
I'd love to connect you.
Great.
I'm so glad I had an open conversation where instead of just trying to chase you down thisroad where you were never going to spend money, you went, you know what?
(14:08):
can help you.
Here's how.
And so, yes, I get it.
You have to close deals.
What you'll find is when you position better and you build meaningful relationships,people will raise their hand and ask to buy.
You don't even have to sell.
um But it is definitely a trust the process moment and message where you need to book themeetings, you need to add the value, you need to make the connections, and you need to let
(14:30):
momentum kick in.
When momentum kicks in, I promise doors will open, you can't fathom.
Yeah, I love that.
There's another element to this that I see in a lot of uh folks in this kind ofentrepreneur mode.
And there's this temptation to, I think it's because of a pursuit of like leverage andlike the feeling of momentum to try and do it like many to many in terms of how we
(14:54):
communicate across the board.
And so we sit behind a computer and we type up emails and we do Facebook posts and we doall this other stuff.
But I would
I think at this point, I would say that robs us of our biggest advantage, which is us inperson, in the flesh, if you will, and puts us into that sea you talked about earlier of
(15:16):
everyone saying everything and it's just noise.
So in your book, it seems like we're very aligned around this, is the need for realconversations, right?
So why is it not enough to do all this through emails or better yet, what does this looklike in the Zoom era?
Yeah, so the system works really good virtually and in person.
(15:38):
So that's good to qualify for people.
I have a client real time, we did training on this today where there's 22, 23 connectionsgoing to this client.
And they looked at their calendar and went, man, that's a lot of 30 minute meetings toqualify them for my offerings or decide what's next.
Can we just push them all to a webinar?
I said, sure, we could, but you're going to get a much smaller close rate and you miss allof the additional opportunity that we just got done discussing, right?
(16:04):
Because in a 30 minute one-to-one meeting where I talk about what are you doing and whoare you targeting?
How did you get here?
Where are you going?
What's in the way and how can I help you?
That gives me information to really figure out, can we collaborate?
Can I open doors for you?
Can you open doors for me?
Do you need to buy my product or service?
Do I need your product?
There's so much more that we can discover.
And so the really big key to relationship building is you need to get into meetings.
(16:29):
And that's why everything around the system
creates language that makes it easy for people to meet with you.
Since we've been on, which is not long, I've already seen two notifications for meetingsbooked, and that's sending a templated email follow-up that says, look forward to meeting
with you.
So you don't have to do anything crazy for the process to work.
(16:51):
So one of the places that I've seen this fall flat is we kind of start off with a bang,reach out to as many people as I possibly can, and then we end up either distracted by
some shiny object or just bored with reaching out.
And so if we're gonna make this sustainable and referable, it can't be a one-time thing.
(17:12):
What has to happen to really be able to sustain this and the results from it over time?
Yeah, so the system we use touches people forever, right?
And so our nurture process, every six weeks for the rest of your life, you're gonna get anemail, right?
And the email is gonna say, hey Scott, I hope you're doing well and having a great day.
It's been a while since we last connected.
What's new and exciting in your world?
(17:34):
Any new challenges?
What connections can I make for you?
I look forward to hearing back from you.
If I don't wanna take a meeting, that's what it would say.
Sometimes I'll add in a sentence that says, hey, it's been a while, let's catch up.
Here's a link to my calendar.
We're gonna nurture forever.
And so everything we do,
It works best if you use it exactly as prescribed and exactly how it's presented.
We use the exact templates that we share.
(17:54):
We don't adjust them.
There's no magic sauce.
The magic comes from volume and time.
And that's where if you compound it today, it will pan out, right?
And so three weeks ago, we had 54 inbound connections come in.
I don't know about you guys, but if I had 54 people I could meet with,
you will find opportunity in there, right?
(18:15):
You're gonna find clients, you're gonna find partnerships, you're gonna find events.
How many connections are you getting a week is the question.
If you're not happy with the answer, start the process and then nurture people foreverbecause you don't wanna build a big database, which people have huge CRM, lots and
thousands of people in it that's doing nothing for you, right?
(18:35):
I want a database that's producing ongoing connections, producing referrals.
producing opportunities, even if people in there are trying to sell me something, at leastthey're communicating with me.
And we can have conversation, pull them back into a meeting and reset.
So you got to play the long game.
You have to task manage appropriately.
And when you start playing the long game, that's where you start to realize you can levelup in big, big ways.
(18:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
Devon, there's a question that I like to ask all my guests.
I'm interested to see what you have to say.
And it is this, what would you say is the biggest secret that you wish wasn't a secret atall?
What's that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Yeah, I'm going to just go to a core principle.
There's two of them, so I'm going to cheat.
(19:19):
I put a slide up, and I've always had this slide.
It's a cup of coffee and a book.
The cup of coffee is meet everyone.
The book is don't judge anyone.
You have to be open to just meeting everybody.
There's value in every relationship, and I need you to buy into that because my biggestdeals, best friendships, my inner circle have all been developed from really unique and
crazy places.
(19:39):
Don't judge anyone.
Meet every.
Yeah, so true, so true.
Devin, ah there's some folks listening that love help getting the referral strategy offthe ground.
They want a consistent flow.
They'd love to hear more about the work that you do.
Where can they find out more?
For sure, so can grab a copy of the Connection Expansion book on Amazon in all formats.
There's also an audio book if you'd like to listen to me talk about it for an hour and 54minutes.
(20:04):
You can also go to connectionexpansion.com.
You can learn about our Connection group, more about our system.
There's a ton of free education, more templates, and a whole lot of more information inthere.
Those are great places to start.
Otherwise, just Google me and I'm sure you can find.
Fantastic, fantastic.
Well, thanks for being here.
It was a privilege and having you on the show.
Loved this episode, loved the book, highly, highly recommend it.
(20:26):
And for those of you watching and listening, you know your time and attention mean theworld to us.
I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did and I cannot wait to seeyou next time.
Take care.
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