August 4, 2025 • 19 mins
In this magnetic episode, Richard Reid, Founder of Richard Reid Enterprises (IoM) Limited, shares strategies to develop authentic charisma for leadership. If you struggle with connecting authentically or feeling inauthentic as a leader, you won't want to miss it.
You will discover:
- Why charisma is about connection, not extroversion, for stage 4 leadership
- How to cultivate presence through vulnerability to inspire your team
- What small, incremental changes in communication enhance your authentic influence
This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stage 4 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz
Richard Reid is a UK-based therapist, coach, and organizational wellbeing expert with over 20 years of experience. As the founder of Pinnacle Wellbeing Plus, he has worked with high-profile clients, including executives and entrepreneurs, offering tailored mental health, leadership, and cultural transformation solutions. Richard specializes in trauma recovery, executive presence, and fostering positive workplace cultures. His acclaimed books, The Charisma Edge and Cure Your Phobia in 24 Hours, showcase his expertise. Outlets like Sky News and BBC frequently feature him.
Want to learn more about Richard Reid's work at Richard Reid Enterprises (IoM) Limited? Check out his website at http://www.richard-reid.com/
Mentioned in this episode:
Take the Founder's Evolution Quiz Today
If you’re a Founder, business owner, or CEO who feels overworked by the business you lead and underwhelmed by the results, you’re doing it wrong. Succeeding as a founder all comes down to doing the right one or two things right now. Take the quiz today at foundersquiz.com, and in just ten questions, you can figure out what stage you are in, so you can focus on what is going to work and say goodbye to everything else.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Ritzheimer (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once
again to the Start scale andsucceed podcast, the only
podcast that grows with youthrough all seven stages of
your journey as a founder,there is a significant
challenge that a surprisingnumber of very successful
founders face, especially astheir organization grows, they
(00:20):
have to learn to create morevalue through what they
communicate to others withtheir words than what they can
construct themselves withtheir hands. And to do so
requires this tricky littlething called charisma. But
what is charisma like, really?What is it? And the pressing
question for today is, howmuch of it do you have? And to
(00:40):
help us figure all this out isthe one and only Richard Reid,
who is a UK based therapist,coach and organizational well
being expert with over 20years of experience and as the
founder of Pinnacle well beingplus, he has worked with high
profile clients, includingexecutives And entrepreneurs
offering tailored mentalhealth, leadership and
(01:01):
cultural transformationsolutions. Richard specializes
in Trauma Recovery, executivepresence and fostering
positive workplace cultures.Outlets like Sky News and BBC
frequently feature him, andhe's also the author of a
great book called charismaunlocked the science and
strategy to captivateinfluence and succeed in
(01:22):
business. He's here with ustoday. Richard out of the
gate, truth or myth. Youready? Charisma is all right.
Here it goes. Charisma is onlyfor extroverts and those who
are loud and assertive.
Richard Reid (01:35):
False, absolutely false. It's for
everybody. And basically, somepeople start further along
that continuum than others,and we tend to naturally think
it's those loud, gregariouspeople who are charismatic.
But for me, that's that'scharm. Real charisma is about
connecting with people andreally making people feel feel
heard and seen, and developingthings between you rather than
(01:58):
talking at them. And so youcan have people very
entertaining at parties, butthey're not necessarily
connecting with people andmaking people feel important.
And that's charisma, and thatcomes in all shapes and sizes.
Scott Ritzheimer (02:09):
Yeah, I love that. So for a founder who
who, again, their success isdemanding that they step up
into this, right? They've gotto take on maybe a more public
persona. They have to leadtheir team and even
internally, in a more publicway. How does this myth that
(02:30):
you have to be loud andassertive to be charismatic?
How does that hold them back?And what's a better way of
thinking about it from thatperspective?
Richard Reid (02:37):
Yeah, I guess it tends to be society favoring
extroverts, doesn't it? Andit's not so extroverts don't
have charisma, because lots ofthem do, but, but equally,
introverts can. And I thinkpeople tend to stigmatize
themselves, and when we getthe belief that we're not good
at doing something, we tend toshy away from doing it. And
actually, some of the mostcharismatic people are
(02:58):
introverts, because actuallythey take their time to listen
to what other people have tosay. They make other people
feel important, and theyunderstand what's important to
those people, what are theirhopes and their fears, so that
they can adapt their masstheir message accordingly. And
this is really important. Youcan be very entertaining at a
party, but it doesn'tnecessarily mean that you
understand what motivatesother people. So you're not
(03:21):
adapting. You're not showingflexibility in your
communication style. Andthat's the key.
Scott Ritzheimer (03:26):
So true. So true. So I want to, I want to
take a look at one morecommonly held belief, let's
call it that way, and that isthat charisma requires like
James Dean, good looks, youknow, like Marilyn Monroe,
like just bombshell levels ofphysical attractiveness. Is
that true?
Richard Reid (03:46):
No, it's not true. So I think there is
research to show that peoplewho are deemed to be
physically attractive get moreinitial opportunities. But
actually, in terms ofsustainability, it is
absolutely about how youconnect with other people, and
whilst looks might open thedoor, they don't keep the door
open.
Scott Ritzheimer (04:06):
Wow. Well, so if it doesn't come from
extroversion, if it doesn'tcome from the good looks, if
it's really about thisconnection between us, what
are some things that we can doto start to foster that? What
are some of the areas that wecan really cultivate to
develop our charisma?
Richard Reid (04:25):
Yeah. Well, a lot of people get excited
about the body language andthe stuff around how you adapt
your voice, and that'simportant. But all those fancy
skills, those advanced skills,are only valuable if you start
with the basics. And thebasics are really around being
more self aware, registeringwhat's happening for you,
registering what you're givingout to other people, so you
(04:45):
can make informed choicesabout how you want to be. So
it all starts with masteringyour internal world to be able
to influence your externalworld. And when you've got
more mastery of that, then youcan start to think about
things like by. Language. Butactually, if you're not aware
of the emotions you'recarrying and the energy that
you're giving off, you'regoing to be using those things
(05:06):
at inappropriate times. Sobeing emotionally in tune with
yourself and with other peoplemeans that you know which
skills to bring to bear atwhich times, and it means that
you're doing it in a moreauthentic way. There are lots
of people who undertakecharisma training, but because
they don't do thefundamentals, it comes across
as instancy, and people seethrough it.
Scott Ritzheimer (05:26):
Yeah, so there's someone listening
like, I'm not a real bigemotion person. Don't express
a lot, don't have a whole lotof tolerance for a lot. Is
this something that we're justkind of wired into? Is it a
skill to be developed? How dowe really understand what our
capacity is in that area?
Richard Reid (05:45):
Interesting question. So we often lose
sight of the fact that ashuman beings, we're
essentially sophisticatedanimals. So first and
foremost, we interpret theworld through our physicality,
our physical emotions and ourenergy. And so to not be
tapped into those things is toreally miss a trick. How often
do we go into an environmentand even before people speak,
(06:08):
we've got a sense of how wefeel about them, how we feel
in relation to them, how safewe feel. So it really is the
key way in which we weinteract with people. And it's
estimated within eight secondsof meeting somebody, you've
already formulated the view ofthem. Well, simple as entering
a room and shaking hands withsomebody, you formulate the
view. And whilst you canovercome that, it's a lot
(06:29):
harder to do that once thatimpression has been made. So
whoever you are, even if youdon't see yourself as being
somebody who's emotional ortouchy feely, there are, there
are degrees of touchy feelingand being in touch with your
emotions, that all of us,wherever we're starting from,
can start to to progresswithin that continuum.
Scott Ritzheimer (06:49):
Yeah, yeah, I love that. So next one here,
because you break this downinto a few kind of key I think
you call them pillars in thebook and and what I found as I
was reading through is theseare words that a lot of us
would recognize but struggleto define. So I'm wondering if
(07:09):
we could just kind of lay outwhat, what some of these
things are. So something likepresence. What is presence?
How do you define it?
Richard Reid (07:16):
Suppressants is about how much of yourself are
you bringing into a situation.You think about how often we
are distracted because we'retalking to somebody, we're
already thinking about what wewant to say next, or we're
thinking about the nextmeeting we've got to go to.
And on some level, people knowthat, because they know that
they pick up on that they holdback, they hold back in terms
(07:37):
of what they divulge. And howoften do people ask us how we
are, and we think that they'reonly being polite, so we don't
actually give them anythingthat actually deepens the
level of connection. Soslowing the conversation down,
bringing more of ourselves tothe conversation is really,
really important, and presenceis also partially about
vulnerability. How much ofmyself am I revealing to you?
(07:58):
And I'm not suggesting youtell everybody everything
about you, but when wedemonstrate some degree of
vulnerability, then actuallythat invites other people to
show vulnerability as well.And then we connect with
people at a much deeper levelthan we tend to in everyday
conversation. So being fullypresent is really about being
in the moment and noticingwhat that interaction needs in
(08:20):
any given moment?
Scott Ritzheimer (08:22):
Yeah, I have found, particularly with
things like vulnerability,that they're a lot easier to
walk into when they're alreadyestablished than to create.
And one of the things thathappens for a lot of founders
is there's this, there's a lotof question marks around
what's the right amount when'sthe right time? I don't want
them to think this thing'sgoing off the rails. I don't
(08:42):
want them to think them tothink I'm going crazy. Like,
how do you help, especiallyfounders, CEOs, folks that are
in that leadership position,that have the responsibility
to really define and modelwhat vulnerability looks like,
and to kind of lay thegroundwork for that. How do
you help them to navigatewhat's the right amount and
right time.
Richard Reid (09:02):
Really, really good question again, and I
think it varies from person toperson and scenario to
scenario, but I think it'sabout experimenting and
experimenting in small ways.I'm not suggesting you give
everything away in any givenmoment, but just small ways,
acknowledging, maybe when youdon't have the answer to
something, acknowledging whenyou've made a mistake, even in
this day and age, so manyleaders are feel the pressure
(09:27):
to be perfect and to have theanswer to everything. I think
sometimes when we defer toother people say, What do you
think? Or actually, I'm notsure, or actually, yeah, I
couldn't figure that outeither. It's given permission
for other people to step up.So actually, the business
starts to grow because it's nolonger about all roads leading
to you, you can start torelinquish control and make
(09:50):
other people feel morecapable. And as the leader and
owner of a business, you setthe tone and the culture for
that environment. So if youare leading by. Example, it
means it's more okay for otherpeople to do that. And so many
organizations I've workedwith, people don't want to
admit when they don'tunderstand something, and
actually it's a sense ofrelief, and somebody else puts
their hands up and says, Idon't I don't understand that.
(10:12):
Can you explain that to me? Soit just sets that that tone
for other people. Andbasically that's something you
haven't done before that'squite scary. So it's starting
off in small ways, gettingmore comfortable with it,
gradually exposing yourself tothe idea of it. And you don't
have to do that as a victim.You can say, well, actually, I
made a mistake, but this iswhat I learned from it. So
(10:33):
actually, there's somethingpositive coming from that
experience.
Scott Ritzheimer (10:36):
Yeah, yeah. I love that. One of the
challenges that I've bumpedinto, personally, and I hear
from clients as well, justwalking down this road is
sometimes when you're tryingto make changes in things like
vulnerability or presence orwarmth or a lot of your body
language, you end up feeling alittle bit like a robot, like
(10:58):
you feel almost like you'reliving someone else's life for
a moment, does it stay thatway? And what role does
authenticity play in all ofthat, especially in that
period of change?
Richard Reid (11:10):
Yes, it's a really tricky one. It's a
question that comes up quite alot, and I think it's finding
that balance between beingtrue to yourself, but also
developing and you thinkanybody in any course of life,
inevitably, you develop andyou're not the person that you
were 10 years ago. So this isthis is doing that in a very
focused and targeted way. AndI think to make lots of
dramatic changes overnight isgoing to feel clunky and it is
(11:34):
going to feel disingenuous. Soagain, it's this idea of
small, incremental changes,maybe just refining something
you already do, doing it in aslightly different way. And
when we do that, when we stepoutside of our comfort zone,
it does make us morevulnerable. It does make us
feel more anxious. And thetemptation is to revert back
to what you know best, butit's taking just those one or
(11:55):
two small changes and stickingwith them and reflecting back
on how they've gone refiningthem. And as you do that, they
become a more natural part ofwho you are. And then that may
be all the change you want tomake, or it may be you've then
got spare capacity to thinkabout what else you might want
to improve. But fundamentally,yeah, it's trying to integrate
these new skills into who youalready are, rather than
trying to make them intosomething completely new.
Scott Ritzheimer (12:16):
Yeah, I love that. I love that language of
integrating new skills intowho you are. Because it's not
just skills, right? It's notjust riding a bicycle, you
know? It's it's also becominga certain kind of leader and
and so I feel like that phrasedoes an excellent job of just
kind of pulling both of thoseworlds that it is developing a
new skill you can learn it.It. You don't have to deny who
(12:38):
you are to gain it, but itmakes you a better version of
who you are. It's very coollanguage. I like that. All
right. So there was thisconcept that just jumped out
at me in the book, and I haveto get to it, and it's this
idea of anti charisma. So youtalk about the paradox of anti
charisma. So tell us what itis and why it works so well.
Richard Reid (12:59):
Well, anti charisma is really going
against the grain of whateverybody expects charisma to
look like. And actually thatthere are lots of people in
the world who, on the face ofit, might be quite geeky,
might be quite awkward, butactually they have a brand
around that, that people knowthem for that, and they own
it, and they and they and theyaccept that, and don't
(13:19):
apologize for being thatperson. And because of that,
people start to associate themwith those characteristics,
and people talk about them inglowing ways because they're
brave. They own who they are,and they step out from the
crowd. And this is also partof charisma. Charisma is not
about being like everybodyelse. It's saying this is who
I am. And whilst you mightPolish some of the edges of
(13:42):
that, it's fundamentally beingproud of who you are and
owning that and the confidencethat comes with that is often
inspiring for other people.You know, you look at people
like Elon Musk, who's quitedivisive. Not everybody likes
him, but he's slightlyawkward. He's slightly unusual
in some respects, albeit veryaccomplished, but people talk
about it. When you asksomebody about they've got an
(14:03):
opinion on and they rememberhim. Part of what charisma is
about. Charisma is not alwaysabout being lights. Often the
two things go hand in hand,but sometimes people might not
like you at all. They mightnot be able to stand you, but
they know what you stand for,and they respect you for that,
even if they don't like you,yeah. And that's really what
anti charisma is. It's notthis idea of being all things
to all people and being likedby everybody, if you can be
(14:26):
fantastic. But some people'sbrand is about saying this is
what I stand for, whether youlike that or not.
Scott Ritzheimer (14:31):
Yeah, yeah. Richard, there's this question
I like to ask all my guests.I'm interested to see what you
have to say. What would yousay is the biggest secret that
you wish wasn't a secret atall. What's that one thing you
wish every founder watchingand listening today knew?
Richard Reid (14:45):
Well, I'm going to quote the lyrics from a
song here. Silence is golden,and often in any walk of life,
but particularly when weleaders, we feel we have to be
openly and in very obviousways, adding value to
conversations and sometimes.And particularly as a leader,
being quiet can actually beempowering for other people
and can be also insightful forus. Sometimes, when we hold
(15:08):
back, it encourages otherpeople to fill that space and
to step up, but moreimportantly, it allows people
to fully express themselves.And when they fully express
themselves, not only do theyfeel more validated, but also
it gives us more insight intowhat motivates them, and so as
a consequence, we can start toadapt the direction and the
flow of our communication tomore readily meet with their
(15:31):
hopes and concerns. And weoften see that as being
passive, but if we do it inthe right way, it actually
adds tremendous value.
Scott Ritzheimer (15:39):
Yeah, it's so hard to when you're used
to, especially when the wholeroom goes silent, right? Yeah,
and you got, like, this type ago, get it. I'm going to come
up with the answer going allthe way back to your opening
point there, around the innerwork, right? If, if you can't
silence that inner voice, it'simpossible to silence the
(15:59):
outer one. And, yeah, sofascinating. Fascinating,
fascinating.
Richard Reid (16:03):
That discomfort. My background is as a
therapist. As a therapist,it's one of the first things
you've got to do, getcomfortable with silence,
because then you can make moreinformed choices about if and
when you speak.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:15):
Very uncomfortable, uncomfortable.
No, no. Just kidding, Richard.There's some folks listening
and you've given them hope ina way that they haven't had in
a long time. You've normalizedsomething that felt like it
was completely foreign, andthey want to know more about
the work you do, or even get acopy of their book. Where can
they find the book and wherecan they find you?
Richard Reid (16:32):
So the book is available on Amazon, and if
you want to find out moreabout me, you can find me on
LinkedIn, and it's RichardReed spell, r, e, i, d, or you
can go to my website, which iswww.richard-reid.com.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:44):
Brilliant, brilliant, Richard, thanks so
much for being on the shows aprivilege and honor, having
you, having you here today.And for those of you watching
and listening, you know yourtime and attention mean the
world to us, I hope you got asmuch out of this conversation
as I know I did, and I cannotwait to see you next time.
Take care.
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once
again to the Start scale andsucceed podcast, the only
podcast that grows with youthrough all seven stages of
your journey as a founder,there is a significant
challenge that a surprisingnumber of very successful
founders face, especially astheir organization grows, they
(00:20):
have to learn to create morevalue through what they
communicate to others withtheir words than what they can
construct themselves withtheir hands. And to do so
requires this tricky littlething called charisma. But
what is charisma like, really?What is it? And the pressing
question for today is, howmuch of it do you have? And to
(00:40):
help us figure all this out isthe one and only Richard Reid,
who is a UK based therapist,coach and organizational well
being expert with over 20years of experience and as the
founder of Pinnacle well beingplus, he has worked with high
profile clients, includingexecutives And entrepreneurs
offering tailored mentalhealth, leadership and
(01:01):
cultural transformationsolutions. Richard specializes
in Trauma Recovery, executivepresence and fostering
positive workplace cultures.Outlets like Sky News and BBC
frequently feature him, andhe's also the author of a
great book called charismaunlocked the science and
strategy to captivateinfluence and succeed in
(01:22):
business. He's here with ustoday. Richard out of the
gate, truth or myth. Youready? Charisma is all right.
Here it goes. Charisma is onlyfor extroverts and those who
are loud and assertive.
Richard Reid (01:35):
False, absolutely false. It's for
everybody. And basically, somepeople start further along
that continuum than others,and we tend to naturally think
it's those loud, gregariouspeople who are charismatic.
But for me, that's that'scharm. Real charisma is about
connecting with people andreally making people feel feel
heard and seen, and developingthings between you rather than
(01:58):
talking at them. And so youcan have people very
entertaining at parties, butthey're not necessarily
connecting with people andmaking people feel important.
And that's charisma, and thatcomes in all shapes and sizes.
Scott Ritzheimer (02:09):
Yeah, I love that. So for a founder who
who, again, their success isdemanding that they step up
into this, right? They've gotto take on maybe a more public
persona. They have to leadtheir team and even
internally, in a more publicway. How does this myth that
(02:30):
you have to be loud andassertive to be charismatic?
How does that hold them back?And what's a better way of
thinking about it from thatperspective?
Richard Reid (02:37):
Yeah, I guess it tends to be society favoring
extroverts, doesn't it? Andit's not so extroverts don't
have charisma, because lots ofthem do, but, but equally,
introverts can. And I thinkpeople tend to stigmatize
themselves, and when we getthe belief that we're not good
at doing something, we tend toshy away from doing it. And
actually, some of the mostcharismatic people are
(02:58):
introverts, because actuallythey take their time to listen
to what other people have tosay. They make other people
feel important, and theyunderstand what's important to
those people, what are theirhopes and their fears, so that
they can adapt their masstheir message accordingly. And
this is really important. Youcan be very entertaining at a
party, but it doesn'tnecessarily mean that you
understand what motivatesother people. So you're not
(03:21):
adapting. You're not showingflexibility in your
communication style. Andthat's the key.
Scott Ritzheimer (03:26):
So true. So true. So I want to, I want to
take a look at one morecommonly held belief, let's
call it that way, and that isthat charisma requires like
James Dean, good looks, youknow, like Marilyn Monroe,
like just bombshell levels ofphysical attractiveness. Is
that true?
Richard Reid (03:46):
No, it's not true. So I think there is
research to show that peoplewho are deemed to be
physically attractive get moreinitial opportunities. But
actually, in terms ofsustainability, it is
absolutely about how youconnect with other people, and
whilst looks might open thedoor, they don't keep the door
open.
Scott Ritzheimer (04:06):
Wow. Well, so if it doesn't come from
extroversion, if it doesn'tcome from the good looks, if
it's really about thisconnection between us, what
are some things that we can doto start to foster that? What
are some of the areas that wecan really cultivate to
develop our charisma?
Richard Reid (04:25):
Yeah. Well, a lot of people get excited
about the body language andthe stuff around how you adapt
your voice, and that'simportant. But all those fancy
skills, those advanced skills,are only valuable if you start
with the basics. And thebasics are really around being
more self aware, registeringwhat's happening for you,
registering what you're givingout to other people, so you
(04:45):
can make informed choicesabout how you want to be. So
it all starts with masteringyour internal world to be able
to influence your externalworld. And when you've got
more mastery of that, then youcan start to think about
things like by. Language. Butactually, if you're not aware
of the emotions you'recarrying and the energy that
you're giving off, you'regoing to be using those things
(05:06):
at inappropriate times. Sobeing emotionally in tune with
yourself and with other peoplemeans that you know which
skills to bring to bear atwhich times, and it means that
you're doing it in a moreauthentic way. There are lots
of people who undertakecharisma training, but because
they don't do thefundamentals, it comes across
as instancy, and people seethrough it.
Scott Ritzheimer (05:26):
Yeah, so there's someone listening
like, I'm not a real bigemotion person. Don't express
a lot, don't have a whole lotof tolerance for a lot. Is
this something that we're justkind of wired into? Is it a
skill to be developed? How dowe really understand what our
capacity is in that area?
Richard Reid (05:45):
Interesting question. So we often lose
sight of the fact that ashuman beings, we're
essentially sophisticatedanimals. So first and
foremost, we interpret theworld through our physicality,
our physical emotions and ourenergy. And so to not be
tapped into those things is toreally miss a trick. How often
do we go into an environmentand even before people speak,
(06:08):
we've got a sense of how wefeel about them, how we feel
in relation to them, how safewe feel. So it really is the
key way in which we weinteract with people. And it's
estimated within eight secondsof meeting somebody, you've
already formulated the view ofthem. Well, simple as entering
a room and shaking hands withsomebody, you formulate the
view. And whilst you canovercome that, it's a lot
(06:29):
harder to do that once thatimpression has been made. So
whoever you are, even if youdon't see yourself as being
somebody who's emotional ortouchy feely, there are, there
are degrees of touchy feelingand being in touch with your
emotions, that all of us,wherever we're starting from,
can start to to progresswithin that continuum.
Scott Ritzheimer (06:49):
Yeah, yeah, I love that. So next one here,
because you break this downinto a few kind of key I think
you call them pillars in thebook and and what I found as I
was reading through is theseare words that a lot of us
would recognize but struggleto define. So I'm wondering if
(07:09):
we could just kind of lay outwhat, what some of these
things are. So something likepresence. What is presence?
How do you define it?
Richard Reid (07:16):
Suppressants is about how much of yourself are
you bringing into a situation.You think about how often we
are distracted because we'retalking to somebody, we're
already thinking about what wewant to say next, or we're
thinking about the nextmeeting we've got to go to.
And on some level, people knowthat, because they know that
they pick up on that they holdback, they hold back in terms
(07:37):
of what they divulge. And howoften do people ask us how we
are, and we think that they'reonly being polite, so we don't
actually give them anythingthat actually deepens the
level of connection. Soslowing the conversation down,
bringing more of ourselves tothe conversation is really,
really important, and presenceis also partially about
vulnerability. How much ofmyself am I revealing to you?
(07:58):
And I'm not suggesting youtell everybody everything
about you, but when wedemonstrate some degree of
vulnerability, then actuallythat invites other people to
show vulnerability as well.And then we connect with
people at a much deeper levelthan we tend to in everyday
conversation. So being fullypresent is really about being
in the moment and noticingwhat that interaction needs in
(08:20):
any given moment?
Scott Ritzheimer (08:22):
Yeah, I have found, particularly with
things like vulnerability,that they're a lot easier to
walk into when they're alreadyestablished than to create.
And one of the things thathappens for a lot of founders
is there's this, there's a lotof question marks around
what's the right amount when'sthe right time? I don't want
them to think this thing'sgoing off the rails. I don't
(08:42):
want them to think them tothink I'm going crazy. Like,
how do you help, especiallyfounders, CEOs, folks that are
in that leadership position,that have the responsibility
to really define and modelwhat vulnerability looks like,
and to kind of lay thegroundwork for that. How do
you help them to navigatewhat's the right amount and
right time.
Richard Reid (09:02):
Really, really good question again, and I
think it varies from person toperson and scenario to
scenario, but I think it'sabout experimenting and
experimenting in small ways.I'm not suggesting you give
everything away in any givenmoment, but just small ways,
acknowledging, maybe when youdon't have the answer to
something, acknowledging whenyou've made a mistake, even in
this day and age, so manyleaders are feel the pressure
(09:27):
to be perfect and to have theanswer to everything. I think
sometimes when we defer toother people say, What do you
think? Or actually, I'm notsure, or actually, yeah, I
couldn't figure that outeither. It's given permission
for other people to step up.So actually, the business
starts to grow because it's nolonger about all roads leading
to you, you can start torelinquish control and make
(09:50):
other people feel morecapable. And as the leader and
owner of a business, you setthe tone and the culture for
that environment. So if youare leading by. Example, it
means it's more okay for otherpeople to do that. And so many
organizations I've workedwith, people don't want to
admit when they don'tunderstand something, and
actually it's a sense ofrelief, and somebody else puts
their hands up and says, Idon't I don't understand that.
(10:12):
Can you explain that to me? Soit just sets that that tone
for other people. Andbasically that's something you
haven't done before that'squite scary. So it's starting
off in small ways, gettingmore comfortable with it,
gradually exposing yourself tothe idea of it. And you don't
have to do that as a victim.You can say, well, actually, I
made a mistake, but this iswhat I learned from it. So
(10:33):
actually, there's somethingpositive coming from that
experience.
Scott Ritzheimer (10:36):
Yeah, yeah. I love that. One of the
challenges that I've bumpedinto, personally, and I hear
from clients as well, justwalking down this road is
sometimes when you're tryingto make changes in things like
vulnerability or presence orwarmth or a lot of your body
language, you end up feeling alittle bit like a robot, like
(10:58):
you feel almost like you'reliving someone else's life for
a moment, does it stay thatway? And what role does
authenticity play in all ofthat, especially in that
period of change?
Richard Reid (11:10):
Yes, it's a really tricky one. It's a
question that comes up quite alot, and I think it's finding
that balance between beingtrue to yourself, but also
developing and you thinkanybody in any course of life,
inevitably, you develop andyou're not the person that you
were 10 years ago. So this isthis is doing that in a very
focused and targeted way. AndI think to make lots of
dramatic changes overnight isgoing to feel clunky and it is
(11:34):
going to feel disingenuous. Soagain, it's this idea of
small, incremental changes,maybe just refining something
you already do, doing it in aslightly different way. And
when we do that, when we stepoutside of our comfort zone,
it does make us morevulnerable. It does make us
feel more anxious. And thetemptation is to revert back
to what you know best, butit's taking just those one or
(11:55):
two small changes and stickingwith them and reflecting back
on how they've gone refiningthem. And as you do that, they
become a more natural part ofwho you are. And then that may
be all the change you want tomake, or it may be you've then
got spare capacity to thinkabout what else you might want
to improve. But fundamentally,yeah, it's trying to integrate
these new skills into who youalready are, rather than
trying to make them intosomething completely new.
Scott Ritzheimer (12:16):
Yeah, I love that. I love that language of
integrating new skills intowho you are. Because it's not
just skills, right? It's notjust riding a bicycle, you
know? It's it's also becominga certain kind of leader and
and so I feel like that phrasedoes an excellent job of just
kind of pulling both of thoseworlds that it is developing a
new skill you can learn it.It. You don't have to deny who
(12:38):
you are to gain it, but itmakes you a better version of
who you are. It's very coollanguage. I like that. All
right. So there was thisconcept that just jumped out
at me in the book, and I haveto get to it, and it's this
idea of anti charisma. So youtalk about the paradox of anti
charisma. So tell us what itis and why it works so well.
Richard Reid (12:59):
Well, anti charisma is really going
against the grain of whateverybody expects charisma to
look like. And actually thatthere are lots of people in
the world who, on the face ofit, might be quite geeky,
might be quite awkward, butactually they have a brand
around that, that people knowthem for that, and they own
it, and they and they and theyaccept that, and don't
(13:19):
apologize for being thatperson. And because of that,
people start to associate themwith those characteristics,
and people talk about them inglowing ways because they're
brave. They own who they are,and they step out from the
crowd. And this is also partof charisma. Charisma is not
about being like everybodyelse. It's saying this is who
I am. And whilst you mightPolish some of the edges of
(13:42):
that, it's fundamentally beingproud of who you are and
owning that and the confidencethat comes with that is often
inspiring for other people.You know, you look at people
like Elon Musk, who's quitedivisive. Not everybody likes
him, but he's slightlyawkward. He's slightly unusual
in some respects, albeit veryaccomplished, but people talk
about it. When you asksomebody about they've got an
(14:03):
opinion on and they rememberhim. Part of what charisma is
about. Charisma is not alwaysabout being lights. Often the
two things go hand in hand,but sometimes people might not
like you at all. They mightnot be able to stand you, but
they know what you stand for,and they respect you for that,
even if they don't like you,yeah. And that's really what
anti charisma is. It's notthis idea of being all things
to all people and being likedby everybody, if you can be
(14:26):
fantastic. But some people'sbrand is about saying this is
what I stand for, whether youlike that or not.
Scott Ritzheimer (14:31):
Yeah, yeah. Richard, there's this question
I like to ask all my guests.I'm interested to see what you
have to say. What would yousay is the biggest secret that
you wish wasn't a secret atall. What's that one thing you
wish every founder watchingand listening today knew?
Richard Reid (14:45):
Well, I'm going to quote the lyrics from a
song here. Silence is golden,and often in any walk of life,
but particularly when weleaders, we feel we have to be
openly and in very obviousways, adding value to
conversations and sometimes.And particularly as a leader,
being quiet can actually beempowering for other people
and can be also insightful forus. Sometimes, when we hold
(15:08):
back, it encourages otherpeople to fill that space and
to step up, but moreimportantly, it allows people
to fully express themselves.And when they fully express
themselves, not only do theyfeel more validated, but also
it gives us more insight intowhat motivates them, and so as
a consequence, we can start toadapt the direction and the
flow of our communication tomore readily meet with their
(15:31):
hopes and concerns. And weoften see that as being
passive, but if we do it inthe right way, it actually
adds tremendous value.
Scott Ritzheimer (15:39):
Yeah, it's so hard to when you're used
to, especially when the wholeroom goes silent, right? Yeah,
and you got, like, this type ago, get it. I'm going to come
up with the answer going allthe way back to your opening
point there, around the innerwork, right? If, if you can't
silence that inner voice, it'simpossible to silence the
(15:59):
outer one. And, yeah, sofascinating. Fascinating,
fascinating.
Richard Reid (16:03):
That discomfort. My background is as a
therapist. As a therapist,it's one of the first things
you've got to do, getcomfortable with silence,
because then you can make moreinformed choices about if and
when you speak.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:15):
Very uncomfortable, uncomfortable.
No, no. Just kidding, Richard.There's some folks listening
and you've given them hope ina way that they haven't had in
a long time. You've normalizedsomething that felt like it
was completely foreign, andthey want to know more about
the work you do, or even get acopy of their book. Where can
they find the book and wherecan they find you?
Richard Reid (16:32):
So the book is available on Amazon, and if
you want to find out moreabout me, you can find me on
LinkedIn, and it's RichardReed spell, r, e, i, d, or you
can go to my website, which iswww.richard-reid.com.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:44):
Brilliant, brilliant, Richard, thanks so
much for being on the shows aprivilege and honor, having
you, having you here today.And for those of you watching
and listening, you know yourtime and attention mean the
world to us, I hope you got asmuch out of this conversation
as I know I did, and I cannotwait to see you next time.
Take care.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.