August 19, 2025 • 22 mins
In this decisive episode, Chris Marr, Founder of The Authoritative Coach, shares strategies to boost confidence and authority as a coach. If you struggle with self-doubt or people-pleasing, you won't want to miss it.
You will discover:
- How to see yourself as the prize to attract better clients
- Why embracing your unique perspective builds stronger connections
- How to cultivate an abundance mindset to reduce desperation
This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stage 2 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz
Chris Marr is the founder of The Authoritative Coach and author of Become an Authoritative Coach: Stop People-Pleasing, Challenge Your Clients, and Be Indispensable. With over 15 years of experience, Chris has helped client-facing professionals worldwide—from small businesses to enterprises with nine-figure revenues—build stronger client relationships, navigate challenging conversations, and position themselves as indispensable experts. He created the People Pleaser’s Path to Authority assessment, a tool that helps professionals identify and break habits holding them back.
Want to learn more about Chris Marr's work at The Authoritative Coach? Check out his website at https://www.theauthoritativecoach.com/, connect with him on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/theauthoritativecoach/, and get a copy of his book: Become an Authoritative Coach: Stop People-Pleasing, Challenge Your Clients, and Be Indispensable.
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Ritzheimer (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again
(00:02):
to the start, scale and succeed.Podcast, the only podcast that
grows with you through all sevenstages of your journey as a
founder. And there is one, Iwould say, very, very big
challenge that almost everyfounder who's a service
provider, a coach, a creative orwe all have to face this, and it
is that to sell your service is,to some extent, to sell you, and
(00:27):
to be able to do that well, tosell more of your services, to
make the impact that you gotinto the game, to make you have
to be able to believe and actlike you believe that you are
the best thing for them. Andthat's a lot easier said than
done, especially at thebeginning of the process,
because you're going to hearmore nos and more not yets in
(00:48):
the first couple years of yourbusiness than most people would
in a couple lifetimes. And sohere to help us establish the
right mindset for our successand the success of our clients,
because these go hand in hand isChris Marr. Now, Chris is the
founder of the authoritativecoach. He's also the author of
Become an authoritative coach,stop people pleasing, challenge
(01:11):
your clients and beindispensable. With over 15
years of experience, Chris hashelped client facing
professionals worldwide fromsmall businesses to enterprises
with nine figure revenues tobuild stronger client
relationships, navigatechallenging conversations and
position themselves asindispensable experts. He
created the people pleasers pathto authority assessment, a tool
(01:33):
that helps professionalsidentify and break habits
holding them back. And he's herewith us today. Chris, thanks so
much for being here. So excitedto have you on the show. Loved
the book. There's a couplepoints in here I want to unpack.
In particular, one of thehardest lessons I learned, but
biggest revelations that Igained, was something that you
call the prize, and being theprize, and I'm just going to I'm
(01:55):
going to leave it that, I'mgoing to open it up, and what is
the prize, and why does itmatter for a coach on their way
to becoming an authoritativecoach?
Chris Marr (02:04):
Yeah, great question. I don't think I've
covered this in detail when I'vetalked to people before, so
thanks for having me and thanksfor asking that question. This
idea, I think the best way tothink about it the visual
representation of this. There'smany points, but visually, think
about this idea that the grassis greener on the other side. I
think every one's heard thatphrase before, and I use it, I
(02:26):
use it in the book to describethis idea that like, if your
clients feel like, if yourprospects and your clients feel
like they can own you tooeasily, then they take you for
granted. And so this idea islike, you're the greener grass,
and you don't want to let themfeel like they own you, or can
get a hold of you really easily,just because they can pay the
(02:48):
money, or they can say, Hey,Scott, like you like I'm going
to pay you money and you'regoing to do this thing for me.
And what we're saying is, whatwe want to do is introduce like,
an element of like, the chase inthis relationship, so that the
client actually has to work alittle bit harder to get you and
therefore actually appreciateyou, and they don't take you for
granted. So there's this idea oflike, respect and control and
(03:12):
influence in here. I thinkthere's many points we'll make
today. I think that'll make thissounds palatable, or like there
might be people pushing back onthis idea already, that we're
trying to be rude to people, orwe're trying to deliberately
aggravate people or frustratepeople in the sales process. But
I think you can look at anythingin life where someone has been
(03:33):
given something without havingto work for it, and they don't
treat it well, like you get acompany car you don't look after
it. You know, you know, you getthings that are given to you,
and you don't look after them. Ithink this is when I think about
the prize. I think about makingthis idea that your prospects
have to work to achieve, to getthe prize, there's something
that they have to do. The otherway to think about this, this
(03:56):
other, the other visualrepresentation here is like,
America's Got Talent, orBritain's Got Talent, or this X
Factor where people have toaudition to be a part of your
program. And so the mindsetshift here, in the way that you
approach your whole salesprocess, and ultimately, your
actual all your work entirely,is that if you were a prospect
(04:18):
of mine, Scott, I would beasking you questions and getting
you to convince me why I shouldwork with you and not spend my
time just vomiting on you aboutwhy you should work with me.
Yeah, right. And so there's thisidea, there's this like concept,
or this idea in your mind thatthere's a gap there, and you
want the prospect to work, toachieve, to prove to you, to
(04:38):
audition for you, that they'regoing to be a good fit for you.
That's, that's the concept. Ihope that sort of creates a
picture, at least.
Scott Ritzheimer (04:48):
It's, it's huge, and as you're saying it,
you're feeling it as you'resaying it. I'm feeling it as
you're saying it. Other peopleare feeling like, that's not
like, that's not the good I'llsay it this way. It's not the
good Christian. Thing to do.We're a bunch of folks in
Canada. It's not the goodCanadian thing to do, right?
There's folks listening fromAustralia. It's not the good
Australian thing to do. Like,yeah, it's a little more
(05:11):
palatable here in the US,because we like to think too
highly of ourselves and Bs ourway through. But even here in
the US, there's this sense oflike, that's arrogant. Like,
okay, that that's, you know, werun into tall poppy syndrome.
You know what I mean? Like,there's this sense of, if I
think too highly of myself, thatthat's, and it's rude, it's,
(05:33):
it's arrogant, it's, I'm gonnabe let down. I'm gonna let
people down. What would you sayto someone that's feeling those
negative feelings as they'relistening to this saying, like,
I don't I don't know that I seemyself as the prize. I don't
even know that I want to seemyself as the prize. What's the
cost of that?
Chris Marr (05:51):
Yeah, there's a whole bunch of flurry of
thoughts here. So let's see ifwe can get our arms around this.
This idea, number one is fit,right? You? If you're a
consultant or a coach like weare. You might have a small
team, but generally speaking,you just cannot take on every
single client. We all know andhave felt and experienced, the
bad fit clients, the resentment,the challenge, like we don't
(06:13):
want that. So you can't workwith anybody, everybody anyway,
and you don't necessarily wantto work with everybody either.
So you can and you don't, andyou shouldn't. Okay, so this
idea is, like the first thingis, is, let's you've got to play
this role of discovering fit,and ultimately, in the
relationship between you and theprospect. You're the expert
(06:34):
understanding what it takes tobe successful in the work that
we're about to do. How could theclient possibly know that? How
could the prospect know that. Soyour job is really, you've got
to uncover fit, the red flags,the green flags, the things that
tell you they're going to be agood fit, things that tell you
they're going to be a bad fit orthere's going to be problems. So
(06:54):
I think the first thing is, islike, you need to figure out if
the relationship's going to takehold there from the very start.
And secondly, the prospect does,like, I've seen this in sales
calls with with coaches andconsultants before they'll be
like, Yeah, this is and just soyou know, it's not going to feel
like it's not going to look likethis when we work together,
Scott, and you're like, theyshould already have a sense and
a feeling about what it's goingto feel like to work with you.
(07:14):
You shouldn't have to tell themthey should already feel it. And
so I think that part of this isabout you being able to show the
type of coach or consultant thatyou are actually from the very
beginning, and to make sure thatthe client gets a real sense of
that so fit and relationship andwhat is going to look like to
work together. I think this ideaof arrogance, though, is like
(07:35):
this is what the way I thinkabout arrogance is that the ego
is overpowering here that you'vegot high level of confidence,
but it's sitting in your ego. Inother words, I I, I am, I know
what to do, and I'm alwaysright. That's kind of arrogance
and ego. But I think those thatare quietly confident in their
skill set can be confident andcompetent without the ego, and
(07:59):
they can say, I believe inmyself, and I know what to do,
and I know I can help you. And Ithink there's just a fine, like
you said, there's a fine linebetween arrogance and
confidence, and I think we wantto be able to feel like we're
confident in what we know andhow we can help, and we that we
value ourselves. So there's abit of an internal game to play
here. And I'll say, like, onelast thing here is, like, this
(08:22):
idea that there's you, if you'renot convicted and committed to
your frameworks or your programor the solution that you prefer,
what is, how could you expect aprospect to be like you're they
can only meet you. They cannever be more confident than you
are. Right? So if you're like,if you're if, in other words,
(08:43):
your prospects don't want tocome and meet you to figure out
if you've got a great solutionfor you for and then leave
feeling more doubtful about it,right? And so your commitment
and your conviction to yourideas has to be paramount. Has
to be at 100% Yeah, if you wantto convince other people and
help other people feel becausethey want to feel confident when
(09:03):
they want to come to work withyou as well. So, and I've
learned this myself, it's likewatching people who are so
committed to their ideas, andwatching how inspiring it is to
want to then be a part of that.Yes, very cool, right? That is
so awesome to see. And so it isabout prizing yourself and
valuing yourself. So those arethe types of things I think
(09:25):
about this idea. And I thinkthere's one final thing, which
is like this. I call it thewilling to walk away principle,
like, who's got the leveragehere, right? If you're an expert
or a consultant, literally, theonly card you have to play is
your expertise. I'm either goingto give it to you, or I'm going
to take it away, and you don'thave much leverage, so if you
(09:46):
are desperate to make the sale,or you have to close this
account and get that money, andthe client's got more leverage
than you, and you don't have anypower in that, in that frame at
all. And I think that's aproblem, because then they
become desperate, peoplepleasing, and we start discount
ourselves. Services, and then westart to kind of chip away at
our authority and our confidenceas well. So there was a flurry
of thoughts. But those are thekind of things that kind of
there's not, it's not just onething, is it? It's kind of
(10:07):
that's all in there. It's all inthis idea of like mindset, how
you turn up, how you'reperceived by the other all comes
through these, the way youthink, the way you behave, the
questions you ask, how yes ornot, you know, those are the
things I think about a lotScott.
Scott Ritzheimer (10:24):
So there's I would go so far as to call it a
dirty little secret in thecoaching world, and that is that
the more you pay for coaching,the more you get out of it. And
it's another version of thisexact same thing that we're
talking about, because if in asales process, I can create so
much confidence that someone iswilling to pay $10,000 and
(10:45):
someone else comes along andthey're only they only create
enough confidence that theprospect is going to pay $1,000
right? It might be the exactsame service. You might walk
them through the exact sameprocess, but the more folks pay,
the more they commit, the morethey drive after it, and the
more results they get. And so abig part of that, let's take the
money side out of it for asecond and go back to this point
(11:07):
that you made about the internalgame and how so someone's
listening to that they're boughtin. Shoot, that's what I did
wrong. But I've got bills topay. I am desperate. I do need
the next one. I've heard a lotof people say no to me. I'm
questioning myself. How do weturn that cycle around and and
(11:29):
even before we have all of thequote, unquote leverage, right
before we have the full scheduleand we can easily say no, what
would your advice be to someonein that moment who's just trying
to kick start this cycle and getit turned in the right
direction.
Chris Marr (11:42):
Yeah, And I get that, like, I don't want to just
wash over that, like, this iseasy, right? It's not. You're
gonna have a lot of conflict inyourself. Number one is, the
initial thing comes to me is,like, you've, if you're a solo
especially, you need to dothings that help you feel more
confident, right? So what are ifyou're sitting there and you're
like, what's one thing you coulddo today that would help you
(12:05):
feel more confident about whatyou've got to offer the world?
Right? So that could be aconversation. You could write an
article. There's lots of thingsyou can do. In other words, vote
for yourself, like what you looklike, to get behind your own
ideas. Start conversations withpeople, go meet someone for
coffee and share your ideas withthem, see if they are influenced
by them in some way. And so Ithink there's like, a small I
(12:26):
think it's like just this ideathat you need to be the one that
engineers your own confidenceright? So there's just, like,
lean into that and move yourselftowards it. And sometimes we
need someone from the outside tohelp us with that. That's part
of our job, I would say this,though, and this is the bigger
idea that might feel a bit likeyou can't get your arms around
(12:46):
it. There's an inverserelationship where there's an
inverse idea here, which is thatthe more desperate you are to
close the deal, the more likelyit is to slip away, and the more
you prize yourself, the clientsactually drawn towards you. And
it's like, there's you feel likeyou want to make a discount so
(13:07):
you get the client because youneed the money. And it's
actually that's the reason whythey won't pay you any money.
It's the reason why they ghostyou after the sale. And the
truth is, is like, if you you'vegot to get it's that inverse
relationship. It's like you haveto do the work you feel really
uncomfortable about. You have tobe willing to walk away for the
client, to feel like they wantto come into your world. And
(13:28):
it's Yeah, and I know thatthat's like a conceptually maybe
quite difficult to get your headaround, but that's certainly
what I've seen in the past, islike you have to track they have
to want to come into your world,and they're not going to come
into your world if they don'tfeel calm. If they don't feel
Scott Ritzheimer (13:47):
I love that, and I want to draw out something
that I think is really importantin that point. And one is, you
said, be more confident. That isnot be more competent. Because
here's what I see a lot ofcoaches do, they feel that pain,
and they go get anothercertification, right? Or they go
study another article. And whatI found is that actually makes
(14:09):
it worse, because the more youknow, the more you know you
don't know, and the lessconfident you feel in the short
run. So okay, right? I'd beinterested to see if you see
that as well, but I thinkconfident is absolutely the
right word Do what makes youfeel more confident, not what
makes you feel more competent?Would you agree?
Chris Marr (14:29):
I do agree with what you're saying in this moment.
Yes, I do think that moreconfidence comes through an
increase in competence. Right?What I think the nuance here is
like, how do you become morecompetent? And I would argue
that sometimes it's education.But for most people, the gap is,
they feel like an imposter,right? There's this imposter
(14:52):
syndrome gap, but what they needto do is they just need to have
more conversations. They need totake what they already know and
get the. Actual reps in. So it'sless about reading another book,
doing another course, and it'sactually about doing the work
that you actually need to do. Soit's taken action. So I Yes,
that's where 100% says they are.Yes, reps,
Scott Ritzheimer (15:15):
100% it's pick up the phone and make the next
call. There's right, there's andI think to take that one step
further. And I loved, I thinkthis is what you're saying. Is
one of the things that you cando to feel the most confident
and least desperate on a salescall is to have another sales
call waiting for you. Okay,yeah, right. So if you only have
(15:36):
one, and you have to sell thatone, otherwise you don't eat
next week, right? Just being alittle extreme, but you're going
to be desperate to close it.You're going to do anything that
you can. And in a coach, there'snothing more put that puts you
off further than a desperatecoach. It's the worst way to
sell but if you have anothersales call and another sales
call and another sales call, oneof them is going to land, right?
(16:00):
And I think, to me, that's,that's probably the thing that
we could do to Kickstarterconfidence the most.
Chris Marr (16:05):
Yeah, I think this is, can be anything. So there's
two things I would say here. Oneis, like, even if you don't have
another sales card lined up, youhave to believe there is another
one coming. Yes, like, yeah,that's like, what we'd call,
like, an mindset, right? There'sjust this belief that the future
is going to be better than yourpast, that your best work is
actually ahead of you and notbehind you. And those are the
(16:27):
types I think about these thingsall the time, because I'm just
like everybody else. I go intodips and I come out and, you
know, it's all of this stuff. SoI think just your self belief
matters so much when you'rebuilding your own thing that you
believe that it's possible foryou to build something on your
own terms. It's possible for youto get better clients in the
future. It's possible thatyou're gonna be able to make
(16:48):
more money in the future, thatyou're not going to like, I
think, if you think about it,like from a logic perspective,
if you're in your mid 40s, likeI am, it's like, am I going to
be unemployed for the rest of mylife? No, of course, I'm not
going to be I'm going to getwork. You know, it's going to
happen. So, you know, I thinkhaving that abundance mindset is
really important. I would saythis as well, even if you don't
(17:09):
have those sales calls, and thatdoesn't mean you cannot have
sales conversations with people.You need to just get into the
DMS on LinkedIn. You need tomessage people on Instagram. You
need to go meet people forcoffee, find excuses to talk to
people and figure out what theirproblems are and see if there's
something you can do to worktogether. And a simple phrase I
use sometimes is like, whatwould it look like if you and I
(17:32):
were to work on that together?Yeah, just, just get yourself
into those conversations. Sowe're back to this idea of
voting for yourself, right?Getting yourself into a place
where it's possible.
Scott Ritzheimer (17:43):
Fantastic. Oh so good, Chris. I've got one
more question for you here, andthen I want to make sure folks
know how they can get a copy ofyour book and get in touch with
you. So before we get there,what would you say is the
biggest secret that you wishwasn't a secret at all? What's
that one thing you wisheverybody watching or listening
today knew?
Chris Marr (17:59):
Yeah, you've got so this might sound a little like a
platitude, but you've got tobelieve in the way that you
think and see the world. I thinka lot of people think they have
to be like a certain person or acertain way or a certain type of
professional but the way thatyou see a problem, or the way
that you think through asolution for a client, the way
(18:20):
your brain works, the way yousee it. That's your unique value
that you bring. And so I wouldsay to people, just embrace the
way that you think and seeproblems and solutions and don't
filter it. That is what's goingto attract the right people to
want to work with you. That'swhat I found for me. And I think
it's I don't I don't know thatanybody really talks about it,
(18:42):
and I think it comes back tojust being you, like, 100%
through that's what you bring.And if I'm too loud and I'm too
fast and it's too much, thenyou're not for me. And that's
cool, because there's peoplethat actually want that, you
know. So I think trying to beyour very like, who you are, is
really critical and really keyto getting the right people to
(19:02):
work with you.
Scott Ritzheimer (19:03):
So good, so cool, Chris. There's folks
listening to this. They want toget a copy of the book. They
want to find out how they canwork with you, or just learn
more. Where can they do that?
Chris Marr (19:14):
Yeah, so the authoritativecoach.com you get
the book there, and a few otherbits and pieces. You'll fail to
scroll around on the website.And then I think the best place
for people to come and interactwith me is Instagram,
@theauthoritativecoach, andyou'll get all my reels and
videos. You can even DM me thereif you want to talk about
something that you see there. SoI'm pretty accessible on
(19:34):
Instagram.
Scott Ritzheimer (19:35):
Fantastic, fantastic. The name of that
book, again, is become anauthoritative coach. Stop people
pleasing, challenge your clientsand be indispensable. And I
having read it, even if you'renot a coach, but you find
yourself struggling withanything that we talked about
here today, the mindset stuff inthere, just practical steps are
going to help a ton of people. Ihighly recommend it. Chris,
(19:57):
thanks for being on the show. Itwas a privilege and honor having
you. Here today, for those ofyou, yes, for those of you,
watching, listening, you knowthat your time and attention
mean the world to us, I hope yougot as much out of this
conversation as I know I did,and I cannot wait to see you
next time. Take care.
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again
(00:02):
to the start, scale and succeed.Podcast, the only podcast that
grows with you through all sevenstages of your journey as a
founder. And there is one, Iwould say, very, very big
challenge that almost everyfounder who's a service
provider, a coach, a creative orwe all have to face this, and it
is that to sell your service is,to some extent, to sell you, and
(00:27):
to be able to do that well, tosell more of your services, to
make the impact that you gotinto the game, to make you have
to be able to believe and actlike you believe that you are
the best thing for them. Andthat's a lot easier said than
done, especially at thebeginning of the process,
because you're going to hearmore nos and more not yets in
(00:48):
the first couple years of yourbusiness than most people would
in a couple lifetimes. And sohere to help us establish the
right mindset for our successand the success of our clients,
because these go hand in hand isChris Marr. Now, Chris is the
founder of the authoritativecoach. He's also the author of
Become an authoritative coach,stop people pleasing, challenge
(01:11):
your clients and beindispensable. With over 15
years of experience, Chris hashelped client facing
professionals worldwide fromsmall businesses to enterprises
with nine figure revenues tobuild stronger client
relationships, navigatechallenging conversations and
position themselves asindispensable experts. He
created the people pleasers pathto authority assessment, a tool
(01:33):
that helps professionalsidentify and break habits
holding them back. And he's herewith us today. Chris, thanks so
much for being here. So excitedto have you on the show. Loved
the book. There's a couplepoints in here I want to unpack.
In particular, one of thehardest lessons I learned, but
biggest revelations that Igained, was something that you
call the prize, and being theprize, and I'm just going to I'm
(01:55):
going to leave it that, I'mgoing to open it up, and what is
the prize, and why does itmatter for a coach on their way
to becoming an authoritativecoach?
Chris Marr (02:04):
Yeah, great question. I don't think I've
covered this in detail when I'vetalked to people before, so
thanks for having me and thanksfor asking that question. This
idea, I think the best way tothink about it the visual
representation of this. There'smany points, but visually, think
about this idea that the grassis greener on the other side. I
think every one's heard thatphrase before, and I use it, I
(02:26):
use it in the book to describethis idea that like, if your
clients feel like, if yourprospects and your clients feel
like they can own you tooeasily, then they take you for
granted. And so this idea islike, you're the greener grass,
and you don't want to let themfeel like they own you, or can
get a hold of you really easily,just because they can pay the
(02:48):
money, or they can say, Hey,Scott, like you like I'm going
to pay you money and you'regoing to do this thing for me.
And what we're saying is, whatwe want to do is introduce like,
an element of like, the chase inthis relationship, so that the
client actually has to work alittle bit harder to get you and
therefore actually appreciateyou, and they don't take you for
granted. So there's this idea oflike, respect and control and
(03:12):
influence in here. I thinkthere's many points we'll make
today. I think that'll make thissounds palatable, or like there
might be people pushing back onthis idea already, that we're
trying to be rude to people, orwe're trying to deliberately
aggravate people or frustratepeople in the sales process. But
I think you can look at anythingin life where someone has been
(03:33):
given something without havingto work for it, and they don't
treat it well, like you get acompany car you don't look after
it. You know, you know, you getthings that are given to you,
and you don't look after them. Ithink this is when I think about
the prize. I think about makingthis idea that your prospects
have to work to achieve, to getthe prize, there's something
that they have to do. The otherway to think about this, this
(03:56):
other, the other visualrepresentation here is like,
America's Got Talent, orBritain's Got Talent, or this X
Factor where people have toaudition to be a part of your
program. And so the mindsetshift here, in the way that you
approach your whole salesprocess, and ultimately, your
actual all your work entirely,is that if you were a prospect
(04:18):
of mine, Scott, I would beasking you questions and getting
you to convince me why I shouldwork with you and not spend my
time just vomiting on you aboutwhy you should work with me.
Yeah, right. And so there's thisidea, there's this like concept,
or this idea in your mind thatthere's a gap there, and you
want the prospect to work, toachieve, to prove to you, to
(04:38):
audition for you, that they'regoing to be a good fit for you.
That's, that's the concept. Ihope that sort of creates a
picture, at least.
Scott Ritzheimer (04:48):
It's, it's huge, and as you're saying it,
you're feeling it as you'resaying it. I'm feeling it as
you're saying it. Other peopleare feeling like, that's not
like, that's not the good I'llsay it this way. It's not the
good Christian. Thing to do.We're a bunch of folks in
Canada. It's not the goodCanadian thing to do, right?
There's folks listening fromAustralia. It's not the good
Australian thing to do. Like,yeah, it's a little more
(05:11):
palatable here in the US,because we like to think too
highly of ourselves and Bs ourway through. But even here in
the US, there's this sense oflike, that's arrogant. Like,
okay, that that's, you know, werun into tall poppy syndrome.
You know what I mean? Like,there's this sense of, if I
think too highly of myself, thatthat's, and it's rude, it's,
(05:33):
it's arrogant, it's, I'm gonnabe let down. I'm gonna let
people down. What would you sayto someone that's feeling those
negative feelings as they'relistening to this saying, like,
I don't I don't know that I seemyself as the prize. I don't
even know that I want to seemyself as the prize. What's the
cost of that?
Chris Marr (05:51):
Yeah, there's a whole bunch of flurry of
thoughts here. So let's see ifwe can get our arms around this.
This idea, number one is fit,right? You? If you're a
consultant or a coach like weare. You might have a small
team, but generally speaking,you just cannot take on every
single client. We all know andhave felt and experienced, the
bad fit clients, the resentment,the challenge, like we don't
(06:13):
want that. So you can't workwith anybody, everybody anyway,
and you don't necessarily wantto work with everybody either.
So you can and you don't, andyou shouldn't. Okay, so this
idea is, like the first thingis, is, let's you've got to play
this role of discovering fit,and ultimately, in the
relationship between you and theprospect. You're the expert
(06:34):
understanding what it takes tobe successful in the work that
we're about to do. How could theclient possibly know that? How
could the prospect know that. Soyour job is really, you've got
to uncover fit, the red flags,the green flags, the things that
tell you they're going to be agood fit, things that tell you
they're going to be a bad fit orthere's going to be problems. So
(06:54):
I think the first thing is, islike, you need to figure out if
the relationship's going to takehold there from the very start.
And secondly, the prospect does,like, I've seen this in sales
calls with with coaches andconsultants before they'll be
like, Yeah, this is and just soyou know, it's not going to feel
like it's not going to look likethis when we work together,
Scott, and you're like, theyshould already have a sense and
a feeling about what it's goingto feel like to work with you.
(07:14):
You shouldn't have to tell themthey should already feel it. And
so I think that part of this isabout you being able to show the
type of coach or consultant thatyou are actually from the very
beginning, and to make sure thatthe client gets a real sense of
that so fit and relationship andwhat is going to look like to
work together. I think this ideaof arrogance, though, is like
(07:35):
this is what the way I thinkabout arrogance is that the ego
is overpowering here that you'vegot high level of confidence,
but it's sitting in your ego. Inother words, I I, I am, I know
what to do, and I'm alwaysright. That's kind of arrogance
and ego. But I think those thatare quietly confident in their
skill set can be confident andcompetent without the ego, and
(07:59):
they can say, I believe inmyself, and I know what to do,
and I know I can help you. And Ithink there's just a fine, like
you said, there's a fine linebetween arrogance and
confidence, and I think we wantto be able to feel like we're
confident in what we know andhow we can help, and we that we
value ourselves. So there's abit of an internal game to play
here. And I'll say, like, onelast thing here is, like, this
(08:22):
idea that there's you, if you'renot convicted and committed to
your frameworks or your programor the solution that you prefer,
what is, how could you expect aprospect to be like you're they
can only meet you. They cannever be more confident than you
are. Right? So if you're like,if you're if, in other words,
(08:43):
your prospects don't want tocome and meet you to figure out
if you've got a great solutionfor you for and then leave
feeling more doubtful about it,right? And so your commitment
and your conviction to yourideas has to be paramount. Has
to be at 100% Yeah, if you wantto convince other people and
help other people feel becausethey want to feel confident when
(09:03):
they want to come to work withyou as well. So, and I've
learned this myself, it's likewatching people who are so
committed to their ideas, andwatching how inspiring it is to
want to then be a part of that.Yes, very cool, right? That is
so awesome to see. And so it isabout prizing yourself and
valuing yourself. So those arethe types of things I think
(09:25):
about this idea. And I thinkthere's one final thing, which
is like this. I call it thewilling to walk away principle,
like, who's got the leveragehere, right? If you're an expert
or a consultant, literally, theonly card you have to play is
your expertise. I'm either goingto give it to you, or I'm going
to take it away, and you don'thave much leverage, so if you
(09:46):
are desperate to make the sale,or you have to close this
account and get that money, andthe client's got more leverage
than you, and you don't have anypower in that, in that frame at
all. And I think that's aproblem, because then they
become desperate, peoplepleasing, and we start discount
ourselves. Services, and then westart to kind of chip away at
our authority and our confidenceas well. So there was a flurry
of thoughts. But those are thekind of things that kind of
there's not, it's not just onething, is it? It's kind of
(10:07):
that's all in there. It's all inthis idea of like mindset, how
you turn up, how you'reperceived by the other all comes
through these, the way youthink, the way you behave, the
questions you ask, how yes ornot, you know, those are the
things I think about a lotScott.
Scott Ritzheimer (10:24):
So there's I would go so far as to call it a
dirty little secret in thecoaching world, and that is that
the more you pay for coaching,the more you get out of it. And
it's another version of thisexact same thing that we're
talking about, because if in asales process, I can create so
much confidence that someone iswilling to pay $10,000 and
(10:45):
someone else comes along andthey're only they only create
enough confidence that theprospect is going to pay $1,000
right? It might be the exactsame service. You might walk
them through the exact sameprocess, but the more folks pay,
the more they commit, the morethey drive after it, and the
more results they get. And so abig part of that, let's take the
money side out of it for asecond and go back to this point
(11:07):
that you made about the internalgame and how so someone's
listening to that they're boughtin. Shoot, that's what I did
wrong. But I've got bills topay. I am desperate. I do need
the next one. I've heard a lotof people say no to me. I'm
questioning myself. How do weturn that cycle around and and
(11:29):
even before we have all of thequote, unquote leverage, right
before we have the full scheduleand we can easily say no, what
would your advice be to someonein that moment who's just trying
to kick start this cycle and getit turned in the right
direction.
Chris Marr (11:42):
Yeah, And I get that, like, I don't want to just
wash over that, like, this iseasy, right? It's not. You're
gonna have a lot of conflict inyourself. Number one is, the
initial thing comes to me is,like, you've, if you're a solo
especially, you need to dothings that help you feel more
confident, right? So what are ifyou're sitting there and you're
like, what's one thing you coulddo today that would help you
(12:05):
feel more confident about whatyou've got to offer the world?
Right? So that could be aconversation. You could write an
article. There's lots of thingsyou can do. In other words, vote
for yourself, like what you looklike, to get behind your own
ideas. Start conversations withpeople, go meet someone for
coffee and share your ideas withthem, see if they are influenced
by them in some way. And so Ithink there's like, a small I
(12:26):
think it's like just this ideathat you need to be the one that
engineers your own confidenceright? So there's just, like,
lean into that and move yourselftowards it. And sometimes we
need someone from the outside tohelp us with that. That's part
of our job, I would say this,though, and this is the bigger
idea that might feel a bit likeyou can't get your arms around
(12:46):
it. There's an inverserelationship where there's an
inverse idea here, which is thatthe more desperate you are to
close the deal, the more likelyit is to slip away, and the more
you prize yourself, the clientsactually drawn towards you. And
it's like, there's you feel likeyou want to make a discount so
(13:07):
you get the client because youneed the money. And it's
actually that's the reason whythey won't pay you any money.
It's the reason why they ghostyou after the sale. And the
truth is, is like, if you you'vegot to get it's that inverse
relationship. It's like you haveto do the work you feel really
uncomfortable about. You have tobe willing to walk away for the
client, to feel like they wantto come into your world. And
(13:28):
it's Yeah, and I know thatthat's like a conceptually maybe
quite difficult to get your headaround, but that's certainly
what I've seen in the past, islike you have to track they have
to want to come into your world,and they're not going to come
into your world if they don'tfeel calm. If they don't feel
Scott Ritzheimer (13:47):
I love that, and I want to draw out something
that I think is really importantin that point. And one is, you
said, be more confident. That isnot be more competent. Because
here's what I see a lot ofcoaches do, they feel that pain,
and they go get anothercertification, right? Or they go
study another article. And whatI found is that actually makes
(14:09):
it worse, because the more youknow, the more you know you
don't know, and the lessconfident you feel in the short
run. So okay, right? I'd beinterested to see if you see
that as well, but I thinkconfident is absolutely the
right word Do what makes youfeel more confident, not what
makes you feel more competent?Would you agree?
Chris Marr (14:29):
I do agree with what you're saying in this moment.
Yes, I do think that moreconfidence comes through an
increase in competence. Right?What I think the nuance here is
like, how do you become morecompetent? And I would argue
that sometimes it's education.But for most people, the gap is,
they feel like an imposter,right? There's this imposter
(14:52):
syndrome gap, but what they needto do is they just need to have
more conversations. They need totake what they already know and
get the. Actual reps in. So it'sless about reading another book,
doing another course, and it'sactually about doing the work
that you actually need to do. Soit's taken action. So I Yes,
that's where 100% says they are.Yes, reps,
Scott Ritzheimer (15:15):
100% it's pick up the phone and make the next
call. There's right, there's andI think to take that one step
further. And I loved, I thinkthis is what you're saying. Is
one of the things that you cando to feel the most confident
and least desperate on a salescall is to have another sales
call waiting for you. Okay,yeah, right. So if you only have
(15:36):
one, and you have to sell thatone, otherwise you don't eat
next week, right? Just being alittle extreme, but you're going
to be desperate to close it.You're going to do anything that
you can. And in a coach, there'snothing more put that puts you
off further than a desperatecoach. It's the worst way to
sell but if you have anothersales call and another sales
call and another sales call, oneof them is going to land, right?
(16:00):
And I think, to me, that's,that's probably the thing that
we could do to Kickstarterconfidence the most.
Chris Marr (16:05):
Yeah, I think this is, can be anything. So there's
two things I would say here. Oneis, like, even if you don't have
another sales card lined up, youhave to believe there is another
one coming. Yes, like, yeah,that's like, what we'd call,
like, an mindset, right? There'sjust this belief that the future
is going to be better than yourpast, that your best work is
actually ahead of you and notbehind you. And those are the
(16:27):
types I think about these thingsall the time, because I'm just
like everybody else. I go intodips and I come out and, you
know, it's all of this stuff. SoI think just your self belief
matters so much when you'rebuilding your own thing that you
believe that it's possible foryou to build something on your
own terms. It's possible for youto get better clients in the
future. It's possible thatyou're gonna be able to make
(16:48):
more money in the future, thatyou're not going to like, I
think, if you think about it,like from a logic perspective,
if you're in your mid 40s, likeI am, it's like, am I going to
be unemployed for the rest of mylife? No, of course, I'm not
going to be I'm going to getwork. You know, it's going to
happen. So, you know, I thinkhaving that abundance mindset is
really important. I would saythis as well, even if you don't
(17:09):
have those sales calls, and thatdoesn't mean you cannot have
sales conversations with people.You need to just get into the
DMS on LinkedIn. You need tomessage people on Instagram. You
need to go meet people forcoffee, find excuses to talk to
people and figure out what theirproblems are and see if there's
something you can do to worktogether. And a simple phrase I
use sometimes is like, whatwould it look like if you and I
(17:32):
were to work on that together?Yeah, just, just get yourself
into those conversations. Sowe're back to this idea of
voting for yourself, right?Getting yourself into a place
where it's possible.
Scott Ritzheimer (17:43):
Fantastic. Oh so good, Chris. I've got one
more question for you here, andthen I want to make sure folks
know how they can get a copy ofyour book and get in touch with
you. So before we get there,what would you say is the
biggest secret that you wishwasn't a secret at all? What's
that one thing you wisheverybody watching or listening
today knew?
Chris Marr (17:59):
Yeah, you've got so this might sound a little like a
platitude, but you've got tobelieve in the way that you
think and see the world. I thinka lot of people think they have
to be like a certain person or acertain way or a certain type of
professional but the way thatyou see a problem, or the way
that you think through asolution for a client, the way
(18:20):
your brain works, the way yousee it. That's your unique value
that you bring. And so I wouldsay to people, just embrace the
way that you think and seeproblems and solutions and don't
filter it. That is what's goingto attract the right people to
want to work with you. That'swhat I found for me. And I think
it's I don't I don't know thatanybody really talks about it,
(18:42):
and I think it comes back tojust being you, like, 100%
through that's what you bring.And if I'm too loud and I'm too
fast and it's too much, thenyou're not for me. And that's
cool, because there's peoplethat actually want that, you
know. So I think trying to beyour very like, who you are, is
really critical and really keyto getting the right people to
(19:02):
work with you.
Scott Ritzheimer (19:03):
So good, so cool, Chris. There's folks
listening to this. They want toget a copy of the book. They
want to find out how they canwork with you, or just learn
more. Where can they do that?
Chris Marr (19:14):
Yeah, so the authoritativecoach.com you get
the book there, and a few otherbits and pieces. You'll fail to
scroll around on the website.And then I think the best place
for people to come and interactwith me is Instagram,
@theauthoritativecoach, andyou'll get all my reels and
videos. You can even DM me thereif you want to talk about
something that you see there. SoI'm pretty accessible on
(19:34):
Instagram.
Scott Ritzheimer (19:35):
Fantastic, fantastic. The name of that
book, again, is become anauthoritative coach. Stop people
pleasing, challenge your clientsand be indispensable. And I
having read it, even if you'renot a coach, but you find
yourself struggling withanything that we talked about
here today, the mindset stuff inthere, just practical steps are
going to help a ton of people. Ihighly recommend it. Chris,
(19:57):
thanks for being on the show. Itwas a privilege and honor having
you. Here today, for those ofyou, yes, for those of you,
watching, listening, you knowthat your time and attention
mean the world to us, I hope yougot as much out of this
conversation as I know I did,and I cannot wait to see you
next time. Take care.
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