December 2, 2025 • 19 mins
In this liberating episode, Shae Bynes, Chief Fire Igniter of The Good Faith Group LLC, shares how to replace grind with grace for sustainable success and true freedom. If you struggle with burnout and the hidden costs of ambition, you won't want to miss it.
You will discover:
- How to receive grace as a gift already available to you
- Why grace, not hustle, is the fuel for lasting results
- What grace-empowered leadership creates flourishing cultures
This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stage 4 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz
Affectionately known as the “Chief Fire Igniter,” Shae Bynes is a catalyst for grace who equips leaders to create cultures where both people and results flourish. A pioneer in the Kingdom business movement, she has impacted over one million people globally through her books, courses, podcasts, and speaking, helping leaders embrace a grace-empowered way of life and leadership. With 25 years of experience, including leadership at a Fortune 50 company and over a decade as a founder and business owner, Shae brings strategic clarity and transformational insight to her advisory work with both entrepreneurs and executives.
Want to learn more about Shae Bynes's work atThe Good Faith Group LLC? Check out her website at https://shaebynes.com/
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Ritzheimer (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again
(00:02):
to the start, scale and succeedpodcast. It's the only podcast
that grows with you through allseven stages of your journey. As
a founder, I'm your host, asalways, Scott Ritzheimer, and we
know that every founder goesthrough this disillusioned
leader stage. You've heard metalk about it over and over, and
we have many guests come on andand help us understand what to
do about it. But today, I wantto address the question, Why?
(00:26):
Why is it that we all fall intothis disillusioned leader stage,
and then what can we do based onthat? And what I found is the
one of the biggest reasons whyis because they fall for the lie
that enough success will finallyset you free. And we spent years
believing that you think that ifyou reach this milestone, hire
(00:47):
this employee, achieve thisobjective, that somehow you'll
cross the finish line and it'llbe okay. And every time we do,
there's a moment of success andexcitement, and we've done it,
and then there's this deeper anddeeper valley we seem to walk
into each time. And there's gotto be something that changes.
And if it doesn't, we don't knowhow long it can last. It's why
(01:09):
disillusioned leaders are alwaysleft asking the question, is
this it? Is this really as goodas it gets? Well, no, this is
not as good as it gets. Andyou'll find out in just about
two seconds of hearing my guesttoday that that is not anywhere
near as close as good as itgets, because she is
affectionately known as theChief Fire igniter. My guest
(01:31):
today is Shae Bynes. She's acatalyst for grace, who, I'm
sorry, a catalyst for grace, whoequips leaders to create
cultures where both people andresults flourish. She's a
pioneer in the kingdom businessmovement, and she has impacted
over 1 million people globallythrough her books, courses,
podcasts and speaking, helpingleaders embrace a grace
(01:52):
empowered way of life andleadership. With over 25 years
of experience, includingleadership at a fortune 50
company and over a decade as afounder and business owner
herself, Shay brings strategicclarity and transformational
insight to her advisory workwith both entrepreneurs and
executives alike. She's alsowritten a phenomenal new book
(02:12):
called Grace over grind, andwe're going to unpack what that
means for those of you who arein Stage Four today, it's going
to be a real treat. Shae soexcited to have you back, one of
our very, very few repeatguests. It's fantastic having
you back. Yeah, and I've beenlooking to this conversation for
a while after we reconnectedrecently, but let's, let's dive
(02:33):
in here. So in your book, Graceover grind, you talk about how
grinding and hustling will earnyou this badge of honor,
especially in this world ofentrepreneurs that we both come
from. But it's not the bestthing. It's an inferior
substitute for something that'sso much more. What is that thing
and why do we always sellourselves short?
Shae Bynes (02:54):
Yeah, that thing is grace. And when I define grace,
I define that as a divineenablement. Now I believe from
God, as far as the divineenablement is concerned, but
what it allows you to do is itallows you to operate with more
peace, instead of all the chaosand all the anxiety. Allows you
to operate with deeper wisdom,so that you can actually have
(03:15):
clarity around what you'removing forward with. It allows
you to have, I call it,sustainable rhythms in terms of
how we flow and how we operate,because a lot of times we'll put
success in this little bubblething, but we want holistic
success and the harmony of ourlives and our work, and it also
helps us to have greatercollaboration with others,
because a lot of times we getstuck in these isolated moments
(03:35):
and putting too much, too muchof a burden on ourselves when it
really doesn't belong to justus, it belongs to a group of
people working in collaborationand trust together. And so I
believe that what's, what'sbehind that, like that force
that makes it that much betteris grace.
Scott Ritzheimer (03:50):
That's awesome. So what's the
relationship then, with graceand things like ambition or
hustle or because the reality ofit is a lot of folks listening
might be like, if I didn'thustle, I wouldn't be here. And
so how do those work together?Is there a time and place for
the grind? Walk us through someof the nuance there.
Shae Bynes (04:13):
Okay, so I actually do not have nuance when it comes
to grind, and I'll tell you why.Because I think that there is,
there is a better word for it,and that word is diligence. So
if you're working diligently,diligently, that means you are
being consistent, you're showingup, you're you're energetic in
your work. But it doesn't meanthat you're you're in this
(04:33):
grind, which is like excessivehard work. So I don't believe
there's any need for excessivehard work. I believe that people
operate that way, but thatthey're operating well
underneath what is the best andso. So I don't think there's a
place for it, but there'sabsolutely a place for
diligence. I believe that we'recalled to work with diligence
and the work that we do, but wedon't have to sacrifice, you
(04:56):
know, everything in the processof our diligence. We can.
Actually do that, and then whenwe add that divine enablement on
top of it, we experience waymore than we could have done on
our own.
Scott Ritzheimer (05:05):
Yeah, so this idea of more peace has been
something I keep bumping into.And when I hear you say it, it
doesn't sound like most peoplewhen they say it, which is like
this kind of squishy, like,nice, okayness. And so as Chief
(05:25):
Fire igniter, what is the What'sthat kind of action? Is there an
action forward piece? What doesthat look like?
Shae Bynes (05:33):
That's right. So I think that's a great question,
because the interesting thingabout peace, Scott, is that
peace is what you'll havedespite even not having all the
information and all the answersthat you really would love to
have. And so one of the thingsthat I find is a lot of people
that actions that they don'ttake is they're not willing to
actually sit and listen toactually seek clarity, to
(05:56):
actually instead of justinstantly reacting to things and
trying to figure out, how can Imake all the things happen to
actually take time sit quietlywith a question, I believe, sit
before God with a question, youknow, and then see what type of
wisdom comes forward. Andsometimes that wisdom might be a
conversation you might need tohave with someone. Sometimes
that wisdom is an idea thatcomes forth. Sometimes it's just
(06:18):
the space to actually be able tothink, as opposed to operating
in so much anxiety. And when youdo that, when you're like
listening deeply for clarity andtaking a step forward, then you
can move. You might have some,you know, hesitations around it,
because you're not 100% sure,but you're also not filled with
anxiety around it.
Scott Ritzheimer (06:37):
Yeah, it's interesting, because anxiety can
be, especially in type A folkssuch a powerful motivator. And
to some extent, like when youfirst get into this, I know, for
me, whenever I first startedchanging, it's like, you're,
you're switching fuels, yeah,and it's like, This feels weird,
you know, like this, this feelswrong. There's something not
(06:58):
right about it. How do you howdo you help folks think rightly
about that transitional periodwhere you're going from just
like the chaos of crazy, anxietydriven effort to something much
more sustainable?
Shae Bynes (07:15):
Quite often, Scott I actually have to really
encourage people to try it. Sofor somebody, because it depends
on where they are, there's somepeople who have already hit up.
People who have already hit aplace of, I don't desire to be
anxious all the time. I don'tdesire to feel like I'm on the
edge of burnout. I don't desireto have like, no harming going
on in my life. So that person,when they come to the table,
they're like, I'm already readyfor a solution. Let me try this
(07:36):
thing called grace, and let mesee what this looks like. For
other people who aren't quitethere yet. The ones who are just
like, but I really, kind oflike, I really, kind of like
this, some of them, quitehonestly, aren't ready to take
that next step. And the ones whoare, it really is just kind of
like, hey, let's experiment withsomething. I actually have a
client right now that I'm havingto walk that out with who
actually takes great joy inseeing her calendar back to back
(07:58):
to back. I'm not kidding, from730 in the morning till like 830
at night, back to back to backto back to back, with like a 15
minute, 30 minute break. Andactually looks at that and it's
just like, this is such ablessing. My calendar is full,
and so it's like, wait, wait,there's something way better
available to you. You can't keepoperating at this pace. And
(08:19):
you're thinking, that's ablessing, but it's not. And
you're thinking it's not, youcan't even have a successful
business without operating likethat. But that's not true, and
so for someone like that, I'msaying, hey, let's just
experiment and try somethingdifferent this week, literally,
as we're having thisconversation this week, she's
trying for the first time thatshe blocked off one hour Scott
(08:39):
from her calendar on threedifferent days, one hour that
she's like, I will not take anywork, no meetings, no clients,
nothing for this hour, becauseI'm going to give myself the
space to actually breathe, tosit, to think, maybe to eat. But
I mean, it's this is real lifefor a lot of business owners.
Scott Ritzheimer (08:59):
Yeah, as someone who scored 98% on an
introversion, extroversionscale, I started sweating just
hearing about that calendar. Butright here, here's, here's what
I think really tricky aboutthis, and it's right at the
heart of stage four, but itmatters to a whole lot of folks,
even outside of thisentrepreneurial world, and that
(09:22):
is the best I can put is like,what's your measuring stick?
Right? Because, like, we are inStage Four in particular, we are
achieving goals. It's not thatwe're not having success, it's
that we're finding out that thatsuccess isn't actually what
we're longing for, and we don'tknow what is. So how do you help
folks, especially in this kindof grace enabled, Grace
(09:44):
empowered model, how? How do youhelp folks to get the right
measuring stick for theirsuccess?
Shae Bynes (09:53):
Yeah, it's interesting how a lot of people
haven't even taken the time todream about what is possible,
like I like to ask. Ask people,What if you're thinking about
your ideal, how you'd like tooperate, with your business,
with your kids, with yourspouse, like all of those
things. What would that looklike? Just a typical, ideal kind
of week? A lot of people didn'thave answers to that. But then
(10:13):
when they actually take the timeto sit with it, to dream about
it, to think about what would Ilike this to look like, and what
would I like what would I likeit to look like, maybe if I took
a week off every quarter? Orwhat would it look like? Just
whatever, whatever it would be.You know, right now, I'm working
with a lot of leaders where I'malso saying I want you to look
at this not just from your ownperspective, but also for your
team. What do you want yourcompany, the whole culture to
(10:35):
look like, even with your teamas you're growing, and how to
operate in this as a leader? AndI find that a lot of people
don't take the time to dream, soI like to take some time to have
people that actually begin toenvision what's possible. And
for some people, that is verytough. For them, it's like, I'm
like, you have permission to dothat. Let's do that. As opposed
(10:55):
to, on the other side of things,looking at, oh, all of this is
not, not what I wanted at all,and then having to start back,
you know, at the you know, startback from beginning. Sometimes
we also don't know exactly whatwe want, and so we start to
realize what we don't want. I dorealize that some people's
personality types are like, Ineed to experience some of what
I don't want so I know what Iwant, and that's cool too, but
(11:16):
you don't want to go allsometimes it's kind of like
people are going fast andfurious, and they go so far off
the beaten path, Scott that thenit takes so much to untangle, to
go backwards. You don't have togo that fast, that far before
you take those those moments topause and reflect in the dream.
Scott Ritzheimer (11:33):
I think that's a big part of it, because we're
invariably going to set some ofthe wrong goals. Yes, like
that's just gonna happen overtime. It might be because we
didn't know what we didn't know.Many times, for the folks that
I'm working with, they don'teven know they've done it, but
they've borrowed someone else'sgoals, right? And and
(11:54):
oftentimes, when I'm teachingfounders and their teams goal
setting processes, I'll tellthem this all the time. It's not
actually about setting the rightgoals. It's about having the
right process, right? Yes, it'sactually more about the feedback
loop in between those cycles.And one of the challenges,
especially for founders, is weset these really big, really
aspirational goals that take along time to achieve, yep, then
(12:18):
we just assume they're likegospel truth, right? We don't
even question it. And so we goyears and years and years
pursuing what ultimately turnsout to be someone else's goal.
Yes, so how do we, how do westart to put some, some some
sort of feedback loop into thatprocess? What does Grace show us
about how to, how to behave inpursuit of those goals?
Shae Bynes (12:42):
Yes, I think it's so funny you were saying that about
goals, because when I talk aboutgoals, I talk a lot about the
difference between outcome andprocess goals, and how most
effective usually, are theprocess goals. What are the what
are it's like you have theseoutcomes that you, by the way,
don't have any control over, butlike you might have some of
those, but how? What? What arethe things that you do have
input into that? Then it's likeyou're taking steps, steps, and
(13:02):
you can evaluate on a monthly ona quarterly, take a look at
that. So I think that one of thethings that's helpful is, at
least for me, I'm looking atthings on a weekly and on a
quarterly basis before I everhit a year. So there's plenty of
opportunity to pivot, to learnsomething, to make a shift and
not feel like those things thatI said in January are set in
(13:25):
stone that I have to like now.I've got to idolize that goal
that I put forth and just gohard after that goal. It allows
me to kind of take in inputpivot, and because I'm talking
about that divine enablement,actually getting divine insight
as I go and as I learn as well,to be able to make those shifts
where I need to make thoseshifts.
Scott Ritzheimer (13:42):
Yeah, it's interesting how quickly our
minds will jump back in and tryand take over. And someone
listening might be like, okay,Grace, got it. I'm gonna go do
these things. Once I have thosethings, then I'll have room for
grace. What's the difference ofworking by grace as opposed to
for it?
Shae Bynes (14:02):
Yeah, it's like, it's, where do where do you
start? Are you starting with itand from it? That's the ideal,
not the Hey, let me go after it,after I figured it all out,
because that is actuallyoperating counter to what I'm
talking about. So if you wantdivine enablement, then you're
actually going to partner withthe divine in it, right? And so
(14:22):
it starts there. A lot of peopleare working for rest. I'll
hustle, hustle, hustle, youknow, work, our work. And then
I'll rest and figure some thingsout when, if you actually have a
rhythm of creating margin, sothat you can restore, so that
you can think, so that you candream, so that you can pivot,
you can do those things on aregular basis. Then, then you
don't have to go so far alongalong the path. It's like you're
(14:44):
starting with it, and you'reoperating in it, just part of
your flow, in terms of how youoperate, as opposed to the thing
that you're going after. Like,that's a reward. After I do all
of these things on my own,
Scott Ritzheimer (14:56):
It's so good, so good grace is not a reward.
It's it's the actual. Will feelto get you there. So yeah, I
love that question. For you,I've asked you this question in
the past, but I'm going to askyou again. So especially in the
context of where you're at rightnow and how you're seeing folks
changing their lives with thismessage, what would you say is
(15:16):
the biggest secret you wishwasn't a secret at all? What's
that one thing you wisheverybody watching or listening
today knew?
Shae Bynes (15:22):
I wish that everyone knew that grace was a gift that
is already available to them,not one that they have to hustle
hard to earn, not one thatthey've got to go and figure all
the things out so that they cando it is actually a gift already
available to you. All you haveto do is receive it, begin to
walk it out in your work and,quite honestly, in your personal
(15:43):
life as well.
Scott Ritzheimer (15:44):
Yeah, so good, so good. So folks might be
sitting saying, okay, yeah,like, maybe I need to try it and
and so some next steps here.Let's make this actionable for
folks. Where can folks find acopy of your book? Or, even
better, where can they start tofind that next step for them?
Shae Bynes (16:02):
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to make two different
kind of book recommendations. Sothe one that you mentioned was
Grace over grind. I wrote thatone some years ago, but it's
fantastic. It's a really greatstarting point in terms of
learning how to operate kind ofstep by step, how to
operationalize this idea thatI'm talking about that is, for
those listening, that is aovertly faith based Bible,
(16:23):
scripture, all in it. Book. Ialso have a book called grace
under pressure, which is a storyabout leadership and the hidden
cost of ambition. That istotally more of a story here. So
it's more of an allegoricalstory. So so it's like taking
the concepts from Graceunderground, and then it's
presenting them in a story witha little nonfiction, a little
bit in the back, and then inboth of those books, I have
(16:44):
tools that you can download tohelp you really to walk it out
on a day to day basis.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:49):
Excellent, fantastic. We'll get links to
both of those in the show notesso you don't have to go
searching for them. Shay, thanksfor being on really a privilege
and honor having you back withus here today. Love, love the
book. Love the content that youhave here, and yeah, appreciate
you being here for those of youwatching and listening, you know
that your time and attentionmean the world to us. I hope you
got as much out of thisconversation as I know I did,
(17:11):
and I cannot wait to see younext time. Take care.
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again
(00:02):
to the start, scale and succeedpodcast. It's the only podcast
that grows with you through allseven stages of your journey. As
a founder, I'm your host, asalways, Scott Ritzheimer, and we
know that every founder goesthrough this disillusioned
leader stage. You've heard metalk about it over and over, and
we have many guests come on andand help us understand what to
do about it. But today, I wantto address the question, Why?
(00:26):
Why is it that we all fall intothis disillusioned leader stage,
and then what can we do based onthat? And what I found is the
one of the biggest reasons whyis because they fall for the lie
that enough success will finallyset you free. And we spent years
believing that you think that ifyou reach this milestone, hire
(00:47):
this employee, achieve thisobjective, that somehow you'll
cross the finish line and it'llbe okay. And every time we do,
there's a moment of success andexcitement, and we've done it,
and then there's this deeper anddeeper valley we seem to walk
into each time. And there's gotto be something that changes.
And if it doesn't, we don't knowhow long it can last. It's why
(01:09):
disillusioned leaders are alwaysleft asking the question, is
this it? Is this really as goodas it gets? Well, no, this is
not as good as it gets. Andyou'll find out in just about
two seconds of hearing my guesttoday that that is not anywhere
near as close as good as itgets, because she is
affectionately known as theChief Fire igniter. My guest
(01:31):
today is Shae Bynes. She's acatalyst for grace, who, I'm
sorry, a catalyst for grace, whoequips leaders to create
cultures where both people andresults flourish. She's a
pioneer in the kingdom businessmovement, and she has impacted
over 1 million people globallythrough her books, courses,
podcasts and speaking, helpingleaders embrace a grace
(01:52):
empowered way of life andleadership. With over 25 years
of experience, includingleadership at a fortune 50
company and over a decade as afounder and business owner
herself, Shay brings strategicclarity and transformational
insight to her advisory workwith both entrepreneurs and
executives alike. She's alsowritten a phenomenal new book
(02:12):
called Grace over grind, andwe're going to unpack what that
means for those of you who arein Stage Four today, it's going
to be a real treat. Shae soexcited to have you back, one of
our very, very few repeatguests. It's fantastic having
you back. Yeah, and I've beenlooking to this conversation for
a while after we reconnectedrecently, but let's, let's dive
(02:33):
in here. So in your book, Graceover grind, you talk about how
grinding and hustling will earnyou this badge of honor,
especially in this world ofentrepreneurs that we both come
from. But it's not the bestthing. It's an inferior
substitute for something that'sso much more. What is that thing
and why do we always sellourselves short?
Shae Bynes (02:54):
Yeah, that thing is grace. And when I define grace,
I define that as a divineenablement. Now I believe from
God, as far as the divineenablement is concerned, but
what it allows you to do is itallows you to operate with more
peace, instead of all the chaosand all the anxiety. Allows you
to operate with deeper wisdom,so that you can actually have
(03:15):
clarity around what you'removing forward with. It allows
you to have, I call it,sustainable rhythms in terms of
how we flow and how we operate,because a lot of times we'll put
success in this little bubblething, but we want holistic
success and the harmony of ourlives and our work, and it also
helps us to have greatercollaboration with others,
because a lot of times we getstuck in these isolated moments
(03:35):
and putting too much, too muchof a burden on ourselves when it
really doesn't belong to justus, it belongs to a group of
people working in collaborationand trust together. And so I
believe that what's, what'sbehind that, like that force
that makes it that much betteris grace.
Scott Ritzheimer (03:50):
That's awesome. So what's the
relationship then, with graceand things like ambition or
hustle or because the reality ofit is a lot of folks listening
might be like, if I didn'thustle, I wouldn't be here. And
so how do those work together?Is there a time and place for
the grind? Walk us through someof the nuance there.
Shae Bynes (04:13):
Okay, so I actually do not have nuance when it comes
to grind, and I'll tell you why.Because I think that there is,
there is a better word for it,and that word is diligence. So
if you're working diligently,diligently, that means you are
being consistent, you're showingup, you're you're energetic in
your work. But it doesn't meanthat you're you're in this
(04:33):
grind, which is like excessivehard work. So I don't believe
there's any need for excessivehard work. I believe that people
operate that way, but thatthey're operating well
underneath what is the best andso. So I don't think there's a
place for it, but there'sabsolutely a place for
diligence. I believe that we'recalled to work with diligence
and the work that we do, but wedon't have to sacrifice, you
(04:56):
know, everything in the processof our diligence. We can.
Actually do that, and then whenwe add that divine enablement on
top of it, we experience waymore than we could have done on
our own.
Scott Ritzheimer (05:05):
Yeah, so this idea of more peace has been
something I keep bumping into.And when I hear you say it, it
doesn't sound like most peoplewhen they say it, which is like
this kind of squishy, like,nice, okayness. And so as Chief
(05:25):
Fire igniter, what is the What'sthat kind of action? Is there an
action forward piece? What doesthat look like?
Shae Bynes (05:33):
That's right. So I think that's a great question,
because the interesting thingabout peace, Scott, is that
peace is what you'll havedespite even not having all the
information and all the answersthat you really would love to
have. And so one of the thingsthat I find is a lot of people
that actions that they don'ttake is they're not willing to
actually sit and listen toactually seek clarity, to
(05:56):
actually instead of justinstantly reacting to things and
trying to figure out, how can Imake all the things happen to
actually take time sit quietlywith a question, I believe, sit
before God with a question, youknow, and then see what type of
wisdom comes forward. Andsometimes that wisdom might be a
conversation you might need tohave with someone. Sometimes
that wisdom is an idea thatcomes forth. Sometimes it's just
(06:18):
the space to actually be able tothink, as opposed to operating
in so much anxiety. And when youdo that, when you're like
listening deeply for clarity andtaking a step forward, then you
can move. You might have some,you know, hesitations around it,
because you're not 100% sure,but you're also not filled with
anxiety around it.
Scott Ritzheimer (06:37):
Yeah, it's interesting, because anxiety can
be, especially in type A folkssuch a powerful motivator. And
to some extent, like when youfirst get into this, I know, for
me, whenever I first startedchanging, it's like, you're,
you're switching fuels, yeah,and it's like, This feels weird,
you know, like this, this feelswrong. There's something not
(06:58):
right about it. How do you howdo you help folks think rightly
about that transitional periodwhere you're going from just
like the chaos of crazy, anxietydriven effort to something much
more sustainable?
Shae Bynes (07:15):
Quite often, Scott I actually have to really
encourage people to try it. Sofor somebody, because it depends
on where they are, there's somepeople who have already hit up.
People who have already hit aplace of, I don't desire to be
anxious all the time. I don'tdesire to feel like I'm on the
edge of burnout. I don't desireto have like, no harming going
on in my life. So that person,when they come to the table,
they're like, I'm already readyfor a solution. Let me try this
(07:36):
thing called grace, and let mesee what this looks like. For
other people who aren't quitethere yet. The ones who are just
like, but I really, kind oflike, I really, kind of like
this, some of them, quitehonestly, aren't ready to take
that next step. And the ones whoare, it really is just kind of
like, hey, let's experiment withsomething. I actually have a
client right now that I'm havingto walk that out with who
actually takes great joy inseeing her calendar back to back
(07:58):
to back. I'm not kidding, from730 in the morning till like 830
at night, back to back to backto back to back, with like a 15
minute, 30 minute break. Andactually looks at that and it's
just like, this is such ablessing. My calendar is full,
and so it's like, wait, wait,there's something way better
available to you. You can't keepoperating at this pace. And
(08:19):
you're thinking, that's ablessing, but it's not. And
you're thinking it's not, youcan't even have a successful
business without operating likethat. But that's not true, and
so for someone like that, I'msaying, hey, let's just
experiment and try somethingdifferent this week, literally,
as we're having thisconversation this week, she's
trying for the first time thatshe blocked off one hour Scott
(08:39):
from her calendar on threedifferent days, one hour that
she's like, I will not take anywork, no meetings, no clients,
nothing for this hour, becauseI'm going to give myself the
space to actually breathe, tosit, to think, maybe to eat. But
I mean, it's this is real lifefor a lot of business owners.
Scott Ritzheimer (08:59):
Yeah, as someone who scored 98% on an
introversion, extroversionscale, I started sweating just
hearing about that calendar. Butright here, here's, here's what
I think really tricky aboutthis, and it's right at the
heart of stage four, but itmatters to a whole lot of folks,
even outside of thisentrepreneurial world, and that
(09:22):
is the best I can put is like,what's your measuring stick?
Right? Because, like, we are inStage Four in particular, we are
achieving goals. It's not thatwe're not having success, it's
that we're finding out that thatsuccess isn't actually what
we're longing for, and we don'tknow what is. So how do you help
folks, especially in this kindof grace enabled, Grace
(09:44):
empowered model, how? How do youhelp folks to get the right
measuring stick for theirsuccess?
Shae Bynes (09:53):
Yeah, it's interesting how a lot of people
haven't even taken the time todream about what is possible,
like I like to ask. Ask people,What if you're thinking about
your ideal, how you'd like tooperate, with your business,
with your kids, with yourspouse, like all of those
things. What would that looklike? Just a typical, ideal kind
of week? A lot of people didn'thave answers to that. But then
(10:13):
when they actually take the timeto sit with it, to dream about
it, to think about what would Ilike this to look like, and what
would I like what would I likeit to look like, maybe if I took
a week off every quarter? Orwhat would it look like? Just
whatever, whatever it would be.You know, right now, I'm working
with a lot of leaders where I'malso saying I want you to look
at this not just from your ownperspective, but also for your
team. What do you want yourcompany, the whole culture to
(10:35):
look like, even with your teamas you're growing, and how to
operate in this as a leader? AndI find that a lot of people
don't take the time to dream, soI like to take some time to have
people that actually begin toenvision what's possible. And
for some people, that is verytough. For them, it's like, I'm
like, you have permission to dothat. Let's do that. As opposed
(10:55):
to, on the other side of things,looking at, oh, all of this is
not, not what I wanted at all,and then having to start back,
you know, at the you know, startback from beginning. Sometimes
we also don't know exactly whatwe want, and so we start to
realize what we don't want. I dorealize that some people's
personality types are like, Ineed to experience some of what
I don't want so I know what Iwant, and that's cool too, but
(11:16):
you don't want to go allsometimes it's kind of like
people are going fast andfurious, and they go so far off
the beaten path, Scott that thenit takes so much to untangle, to
go backwards. You don't have togo that fast, that far before
you take those those moments topause and reflect in the dream.
Scott Ritzheimer (11:33):
I think that's a big part of it, because we're
invariably going to set some ofthe wrong goals. Yes, like
that's just gonna happen overtime. It might be because we
didn't know what we didn't know.Many times, for the folks that
I'm working with, they don'teven know they've done it, but
they've borrowed someone else'sgoals, right? And and
(11:54):
oftentimes, when I'm teachingfounders and their teams goal
setting processes, I'll tellthem this all the time. It's not
actually about setting the rightgoals. It's about having the
right process, right? Yes, it'sactually more about the feedback
loop in between those cycles.And one of the challenges,
especially for founders, is weset these really big, really
aspirational goals that take along time to achieve, yep, then
(12:18):
we just assume they're likegospel truth, right? We don't
even question it. And so we goyears and years and years
pursuing what ultimately turnsout to be someone else's goal.
Yes, so how do we, how do westart to put some, some some
sort of feedback loop into thatprocess? What does Grace show us
about how to, how to behave inpursuit of those goals?
Shae Bynes (12:42):
Yes, I think it's so funny you were saying that about
goals, because when I talk aboutgoals, I talk a lot about the
difference between outcome andprocess goals, and how most
effective usually, are theprocess goals. What are the what
are it's like you have theseoutcomes that you, by the way,
don't have any control over, butlike you might have some of
those, but how? What? What arethe things that you do have
input into that? Then it's likeyou're taking steps, steps, and
(13:02):
you can evaluate on a monthly ona quarterly, take a look at
that. So I think that one of thethings that's helpful is, at
least for me, I'm looking atthings on a weekly and on a
quarterly basis before I everhit a year. So there's plenty of
opportunity to pivot, to learnsomething, to make a shift and
not feel like those things thatI said in January are set in
(13:25):
stone that I have to like now.I've got to idolize that goal
that I put forth and just gohard after that goal. It allows
me to kind of take in inputpivot, and because I'm talking
about that divine enablement,actually getting divine insight
as I go and as I learn as well,to be able to make those shifts
where I need to make thoseshifts.
Scott Ritzheimer (13:42):
Yeah, it's interesting how quickly our
minds will jump back in and tryand take over. And someone
listening might be like, okay,Grace, got it. I'm gonna go do
these things. Once I have thosethings, then I'll have room for
grace. What's the difference ofworking by grace as opposed to
for it?
Shae Bynes (14:02):
Yeah, it's like, it's, where do where do you
start? Are you starting with itand from it? That's the ideal,
not the Hey, let me go after it,after I figured it all out,
because that is actuallyoperating counter to what I'm
talking about. So if you wantdivine enablement, then you're
actually going to partner withthe divine in it, right? And so
(14:22):
it starts there. A lot of peopleare working for rest. I'll
hustle, hustle, hustle, youknow, work, our work. And then
I'll rest and figure some thingsout when, if you actually have a
rhythm of creating margin, sothat you can restore, so that
you can think, so that you candream, so that you can pivot,
you can do those things on aregular basis. Then, then you
don't have to go so far alongalong the path. It's like you're
(14:44):
starting with it, and you'reoperating in it, just part of
your flow, in terms of how youoperate, as opposed to the thing
that you're going after. Like,that's a reward. After I do all
of these things on my own,
Scott Ritzheimer (14:56):
It's so good, so good grace is not a reward.
It's it's the actual. Will feelto get you there. So yeah, I
love that question. For you,I've asked you this question in
the past, but I'm going to askyou again. So especially in the
context of where you're at rightnow and how you're seeing folks
changing their lives with thismessage, what would you say is
(15:16):
the biggest secret you wishwasn't a secret at all? What's
that one thing you wisheverybody watching or listening
today knew?
Shae Bynes (15:22):
I wish that everyone knew that grace was a gift that
is already available to them,not one that they have to hustle
hard to earn, not one thatthey've got to go and figure all
the things out so that they cando it is actually a gift already
available to you. All you haveto do is receive it, begin to
walk it out in your work and,quite honestly, in your personal
(15:43):
life as well.
Scott Ritzheimer (15:44):
Yeah, so good, so good. So folks might be
sitting saying, okay, yeah,like, maybe I need to try it and
and so some next steps here.Let's make this actionable for
folks. Where can folks find acopy of your book? Or, even
better, where can they start tofind that next step for them?
Shae Bynes (16:02):
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to make two different
kind of book recommendations. Sothe one that you mentioned was
Grace over grind. I wrote thatone some years ago, but it's
fantastic. It's a really greatstarting point in terms of
learning how to operate kind ofstep by step, how to
operationalize this idea thatI'm talking about that is, for
those listening, that is aovertly faith based Bible,
(16:23):
scripture, all in it. Book. Ialso have a book called grace
under pressure, which is a storyabout leadership and the hidden
cost of ambition. That istotally more of a story here. So
it's more of an allegoricalstory. So so it's like taking
the concepts from Graceunderground, and then it's
presenting them in a story witha little nonfiction, a little
bit in the back, and then inboth of those books, I have
(16:44):
tools that you can download tohelp you really to walk it out
on a day to day basis.
Scott Ritzheimer (16:49):
Excellent, fantastic. We'll get links to
both of those in the show notesso you don't have to go
searching for them. Shay, thanksfor being on really a privilege
and honor having you back withus here today. Love, love the
book. Love the content that youhave here, and yeah, appreciate
you being here for those of youwatching and listening, you know
that your time and attentionmean the world to us. I hope you
got as much out of thisconversation as I know I did,
(17:11):
and I cannot wait to see younext time. Take care.
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