In this eye-opening episode of The State I Am In, I’m joined by Ryan Astalos and Jackie Boyer from SalmonState to break down one of the most urgent issues facing Alaska today: industrial trawling and the devastating impact of bycatch. We unpack what trawling actually is, who profits from it, and who pays the price—especially the Alaskan communities relying on the return of wild salmon.
Why do Seattle-based factory trawlers get a pass while sportfishers and subsistence users face tight limits? Why are millions of pounds of wasted fish ignored while rural families are told to do more with less?
But we don’t stop there. We dig into what Alaska’s representatives are (and aren’t) saying, who really has the power to change this, and how everyday Alaskans can, and must—raise their voices. This is a conversation that cuts across party lines and strikes at the heart of what it means to live here.
The time to act is now. If we want a future with fish, it’s going to take all of us.
Visit www.salmonstate.org to learn more
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:20):
We've got Jackie Boyer with me today and Ryan
Astelis with Salmon State.
Thank you both for being herewith me today.
And let's just jump right intoit.
Jackie, what brought you toSalmon State?
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Well, I mean, I personally align with the
mission, like who doesn't lovesalmon in Alaska?
Kind of what it comes down to,but...
Like my background, I kind offell into policy work right
outside of high school and didan internship in our state
legislature.
And I adopted my siblings andlike I'm indigenous.
(00:55):
So like it's kind of ingrainedin my culture to like be a
steward and to take care of ourlands and waters and everything.
So when this opportunity openedup, For this position and to
work at salmon state, I kind ofjumped at it and I absolutely
love everyone at the team.
SPEAKER_03 (01:15):
What is your position with salmon state?
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
So I work on the stop trawl bycatch campaign and,
uh, I'm relatively new to thisorganization, but I've, you
know, in previous positions,I've always partnered with them
and always appreciated the workhere.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Cool.
Ryan, what about you?
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yeah.
After graduating college, I.
Started door knocking againstthe Pebble Mine in an effort to
protect Bristol Bay.
Since then, I have worked indifferent organizations,
different positions, and startedworking part-time with Salmon
(01:53):
State back in 2017.
And when the opportunity arosefor a full-time position, I
jumped on it.
I really love working withSalmon State.
just like Jackie spoke about thework that we are doing and the
people that we work with isreally important to me.
And I think, so my role atSalmon State has kind of evolved
(02:17):
over time, but I'm ouroperations director and that
kind of lumps in a lot ofdifferent tasks, whether that be
admin work, outreach, going todifferent events, and then also
our social media and ourwebsite.
So kind of all over the board.
SPEAKER_03 (02:40):
Salmon State's social media is actually pretty
awesome.
I've been following just for afew months, actually.
I found out about Salmon Statethrough one of the Facebook
pages, Stop Alaskan.
Trawler Bycatch is the name ofthe Facebook page, and it's
huge.
There's like 44,000 people thatfollow this, and I'm assuming
(03:03):
people that live in Alaska andbeyond, but I reached out to the
admin for that page, David Bays,and he was excited about wanting
to discuss this type of issue onthe podcast and suggested...
I believe he suggested it.
It could have been someone else.
(03:23):
I talked to a few people on thatpage about it, but they were
like, you need to talk to SalmonState.
And so I look up Salmon Stateand one beautiful website, clear
cut on what you all are about,what you're doing in the state,
the issues that are importantto, I feel like most Alaskans.
As I look through that, ifyou're an Alaskan, the things
(03:44):
that Salmon State are doing, Ithink you probably should be or
if not already concerned aboutas far as protecting our land,
protecting our salmon.
They're issues that are uniqueto us.
So when I reached out to SalmonState, I talked to Mary
Catherine, and she was quick tosay, we'll find someone for you,
and I appreciate that so muchbecause I think it's an
(04:05):
important issue that we, onethat you are working on and that
we should discuss so that otherpeople can get in on that too.
So this is both of yourfull-time jobs, right?
That's correct.
That's awesome.
So this isn't just somethingyou're doing on a volunteer
basis.
This is your life in a sense.
And I appreciate you all sharingthat with me today.
(04:28):
So I want to learn more aboutSalmon State.
So what would you say themission of Salmon State is?
SPEAKER_01 (04:37):
Yeah.
So Salmon State works to ensurethat wild salmon and the people
that depend on them thrive.
Kind of our...
name is born out of Alaska,making sure that Alaska remains
the salmon state, right?
Just kind of, as you noted,everybody should be connected to
(05:01):
the issues that we work on.
They might not always agree witheverything that we say, but
salmon are a key connector withAlaskans.
And that's the work that we dois for the people and for the
fish.
SPEAKER_03 (05:18):
So we're going to talk today about, you know,
stopping trawler bycatch.
But that's just one of a fewissues Sam Estate is concerned
about and working on.
Is that right?
What are some of the othercampaigns that you guys have
going on?
SPEAKER_01 (05:35):
Yeah, I kind of mentioned it in my intro, but
I'm sure...
The majority of Alaskans knowabout the Pebble Mine that's
proposed in Bristol Bay.
This is one of the issues thatSalmon State's been involved in
for years, along with local...
(05:55):
The United Tribes of Bristol Bayand other partners, we've come
to the table to work on thatissue.
You know, in addition to that,there's several mines on the
British Columbia side of theborder in Canada at the
headwaters of the Stikine,Eunich, and Taku.
Kind of similar impacts of thePebble Mine, but on the Canadian
(06:18):
side, that would impactSoutheast communities.
So we're concerned about that.
We're also looking to, you know,uplift Southeast communities to
kind of give the direction thatthey want to ensure that salmon
streams, trout streams,recreation, tourism is all
important to the Southeastcommunity and economics and make
(06:44):
sure that logging isn't all.
um, destroying that habitat.
Um, cause that's reallyimportant to those fish
populations.
Um, in addition to that, we'realso working on, um, the
proposed West of Sydneyindustrial access road, um,
which is kind of a state funded,um, hundred plus mile road that
(07:07):
would go from big lake out to,um, the, uh, Alaska range, um,
for potential mining claims.
This would cross 180 streams.
It would at least be$600million, probably more with our
inflation and constructionprices these days.
(07:29):
And then also just making surethat public spaces remain
protected for opportunity forAlaskans to recreate, hunt,
fish, and live a subsistencelifestyle.
So, you know, we are reallyconcerned with freshwater
habitats through all thesedifferent campaigns that I just
(07:51):
mentioned.
But we're also concerned withthe ocean space in the way of
trawl bycatch.
You know, salmon in particular,as everyone knows, is an
andromus, and so they live inboth environments.
And so that's important forSalmon State.
SPEAKER_03 (08:09):
I think salmon...
are important to the state, nodoubt.
I'm trying to think of a way tokind of relate it to people that
maybe they don't eat salmon,maybe they don't fish, but
they're still important to thestate.
They're important to a lot of,even though they might not be
important to you, specificallywherever you live, there's other
(08:32):
communities that rely on salmonpopulation, the return of
salmon.
What is...
or I guess why is protectingsalmon such a critical issue so
much so that this organizationexists?
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
From my perspective, I really got into this work
because of indigenous ways oflife and how much we're
interrelated to marine life andland on the water or mammals and
everything that is kind ofingrained in who we are.
(09:12):
And so, I mean, salmon is justkind of the, the lifeline, the
lifeblood of indigenouscommunities.
And like, you know, growing up,everything is kind of
interrelated to like seafood,like growing up.
And my grandma would tell mestories and like cut fish and,
(09:34):
you know, I like to think about,or like when I get discouraged
about things, like, I go back tothinking about processing salmon
with my grandma.
And so like with each salmonthat she would cut, she would,
you know, tangibly give me theheart of each one and like tell
me a story about growing up andcutting salmon with her grandma
and, you know, generationsbefore.
(09:56):
And that's like a way of lifethat existed, you know, since
time immemorial.
And so that's why I think it'sso critical that we work to
protect this because it's aplace that, It's a place that's
always been connected to salmon,and it's our duty to make sure
that continues for the nextgeneration and the next
(10:17):
generation, just the way thatit's gone on for generations
prior.
SPEAKER_03 (10:22):
It does put into perspective that it's more than
just a fish that spawns and goesout to the ocean and comes back.
It's a lot more tied to that,for sure.
So today we're going to talkabout trawling.
It's like predominantly we'regoing to be talking about
(10:42):
trawling.
For those that don't know, whatis trawling?
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Yeah, I can start off with that.
So, you know, there's a lot ofspecifics that go into each type
of gear.
And so I'll kind of explain thison a generalized level.
So you can have two groupings,basically.
You have bottom trawling andthen mid-water, or it's also
(11:11):
known as pelagic trawling.
And so then on top of that, youhave catcher vessels, which are
trawling vessels that go out andcatch the fish, and then they
have to offload that fish,whether it be shore-side
processing or a mother ship.
(11:32):
So a mothership would be afloating processor essentially.
And so that's a boat that is onthe water and these catcher
vessels are bringing that fishto them.
Then at the same time, there'salso catcher processors.
And so they're doing it all inone boat.
So it kind of depends.
(11:54):
And then to kind of go a littlebit more into what pelagic and
bottom trawling is, So pelagicis where they're supposed to be
in the middle of the watercolumn, right?
Catching their fish.
But there's been studies thathave been done where it depends
(12:16):
on what kind of vessel thatthey're operating, but they're
finding that those nets are onthe ground from 40 to 100% of
the time.
And so that has to do a lot withthe weights, the fish that
they're catching, trying tocatch, and there's some issues
with the regulations at theNorth Pacific Fisheries
(12:39):
Management Council that there'snot actually a clear definition
of what that is.
They just talk about it in thesense of what the net looks like
and not actually how they'refishing.
On the other hand, bottomtrawling is specifically
designed to be on the bottom.
It has rollers.
They're dragging that net on thebottom.
(13:00):
in search of those oftentimesflatfish.
And essentially, the issues withthe midwater touching the bottom
is disrupting the habitat, butit also kind of throws in a
loophole, right?
So you have certain areas thatare designated as close to
(13:22):
bottom trawling, And thosemidwater trawls are able to
operate in those areas.
But if they're on the groundbetween 40% and 100% of the
time, they're still impactingthose areas where they're
supposed to be closed.
And that's impacting specieslike crabs where they're molting
and spawning corals that growfor hundreds of years, et
(13:46):
cetera.
So
SPEAKER_03 (13:47):
these trawlers are targeting, you said either like
flatfish on the bottom, Um, butalso like, isn't like walleye
Pollock, is that like another,like highly targeted species of
fish also?
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Yeah.
So largely, um, Pollock ismidwater.
Um, and so that's like kind ofwhen people think about
trawling, they automatically goto Pollock.
Um, you know, these are the fishthat are used for filet of fish
at McDonald's and several otherfast food restaurants.
They are made into fish sticks.
(14:21):
Um, They're even coming out withlike breaded filets at
supermarkets.
And interestingly enough,imitation crab or surimi is
ground up and highly processedpollock made into crab sticks.
And so the flatfish aretypically flounders, sole,
(14:47):
different species like that thatare living on the bottom.
And One other species that'scaught mid-water is cod.
SPEAKER_03 (14:57):
What's the quantity we're talking about here with
these nets and the amount offish that they're trying to
bring in at one time?
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
Over the course of the year, billions
SPEAKER_03 (15:09):
of pounds.
Billions with a B.
Yeah, it's a lot.
And these nets are enormous insize.
They...
I think I've read that they'relike, maybe it was on the San
Jose website, like as long as afootball field, like they're
huge, right?
And like they're trying totarget specific species, but in
(15:33):
the process of that, other stuffis getting into the net as well,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
Yeah.
So just like you said, they'respread out the size of a
football field and they'reindiscriminately catching these
species.
It kind of tapers down into acone, which is oftentimes
referred to as the cod end.
And that is pulling through thewater.
And in the process, they'reindiscriminately catching
(16:02):
species that Alaskans careabout.
whether it be culturally,economically, or just, you know,
wanting to fill our freezers,you know.
So this includes salmon,halibut, crab, herring, black
cod, et cetera.
You know, just a couple yearsago, you know, they actually
caught orcas.
(16:23):
And just this last year theycaught another one.
And so there's also a lot ofmarine mammals that, and sharks
and things like that that don'tmake it onto the publicly
available bycatch data.
And so then there's left onpeople or organizations to do
(16:45):
what's called a FOIA request.
And they're, you know,petitioning the government
essentially to release thatdata.
And when they do, they beingNOAA, you know, it's highly
pixelated.
And so then those organizationsthen have to follow up and sue
the government to actually seewhat these vessels are actually
(17:07):
bycatching.
So it's really problematic.
Can you clarify what NOAA is?
National Oceanic and AtmosphereAdministration.
SPEAKER_03 (17:16):
So where, like, is this all across the, I mean, I'm
thinking about like, You know,Alaska is a state.
We've got a lot of ocean.
You know, we border a lot ofocean.
We've got a lot of coastalcommunities.
Where is this trawlinghappening?
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
Yeah, so it's a good question.
A lot of the problem and themajority of the trawling happens
in federally managed water.
So that's between 300 and 200miles off the coast of Alaska.
And so there's Gulf of Alaska,and then there's also the Bering
Sea.
And that's where a lot of thetrawling is occurring.
(17:53):
There's one state-managedPollock trawl fishery that
occurs in Prince Williamstown.
It's a rather short season.
It goes from January 20th toMarch 31st.
Although this year, they wrappedup rather quickly because they
met their quota.
So they were already...
(18:15):
done fishing Prince Williamstownby February 18th because they
had, um, caught 9 million poundsof Pollock.
SPEAKER_03 (18:24):
Yeah.
Those numbers are hard to likegrasp.
But when you think about likethe amount of amount of fish
that they're taking in is, itseems, it seems crazy because
it's every year, year afteryear, I'm assuming, right?
Like they didn't just starttrawling.
Trawling has been going on for awhile, I'm guessing.
Um, who are like the majorplayers in, in like this
(18:47):
trawling industry?
Um, like these, are thesecompanies based in Alaska?
Are they out of state?
Are they internationally?
Like you mentioned, you know,the, you know, it was a 200
miles outside of Alaska, um, isconsidered federal water.
So could they be, are they, arethere international players here
(19:07):
or is it, um, are these allcompanies based in the state
that are doing this?
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Yeah, so there is international trawling that is
occurring, Russian trawling,that kind of thing, but we're
really focused on what we caninfluence, and that's the
federal waters, right?
And so a lot of these companiesare sending their trawl boats
from Washington, Oregon, andthen there's a small fleet
(19:34):
that's actually based out ofKodiak.
SPEAKER_03 (19:38):
Okay, so there are other states involved basically
send in these trawler fleets.
It's not just like an Alaska,you know, these aren't just
Alaskan companies.
They're coming from out of stateas well.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
Yeah.
So this federally managed watersis considered the North Pacific.
And so that's managed by theNorth Pacific fisheries
management council.
And the members that make upthat body include members that
are appointed by the Alaska,Washington and Oregon governors.
SPEAKER_03 (20:05):
So you mentioned some, like you mentioned like
McDonald's, like Filet-O-Fish,some of these other, products
that are kind of keeping thedemand up for these trawlers to
do what they do.
But as I looked into trawlingand what that was, and just to
see it from that perspective,they have this claim that it's
(20:26):
sustainable is actually the wordthat they use.
And again, I'm not like, I'mjust a layman and learning all
of this.
But when you hear about like themillions and millions of fish
that are being taken.
When you, we're going to talkabout the bycatch and like when
we learn about the amount offish that are, are being lost,
(20:48):
um, in the process of, of this,you know, these trawling fleets,
it's hard to justify in my ownunderstanding that this is
something that is sustainable,which means we can do it for a
long time and there's enough,you know, regrowth, um, in
return.
Like it just doesn't make sense.
Um, so, um, back to the questionwas, you know, who's, who's
(21:10):
benefiting from, from what thesetrawlers are doing.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
So, um, to your question about sustainability.
So a lot of, um, trial copproducts, um, kind of make it
into, um, the market and, um,restaurants with a stamp of
approval, quote unquote.
Um, this is, um, the MarineStewardship Council that you
might see a little stamp oflittle blue fish stamp on
(21:36):
products such as the flail fish.
Um, and those are dubbed assustainable.
Um, you know, that body, um, youknow, certification body, um,
you know, might have goodintentions, um, but They do
certify sustainable fisheries,like certain ways of salmon
(21:59):
fishing, for example.
However, it is a little bit of apay-to-play game.
And so whenever you have amulti-billion dollar industry
like the trawl industry, that ispretty easy for them to pay for
this industry.
blue washing, if you will.
Right.
Um, and so whenever folks, um,have come to trust this blue
(22:23):
fish stamp, um, and they're inthe supermarket, you know, they
will see that it's sustainable,but, you know, unfortunately
it's not because of the numberof, uh, species that are
becoming victim of bycatch, um,There's also issues with bottom
trawling, ruining the habitat onthe ocean floor.
(22:44):
There's also been studies thathave been done that is
contributing to carbon emissionsby rototilling the seafloor,
essentially.
So there's that.
There's also claims that thetrawl industry will like to call
that they're sustainable basedon percentages, right?
(23:07):
And so they're taking in such alarge consumption of this
whitefish, whether it be pollockor flatfish, whatever, that they
can put out, oh, we're only at1% by catch.
But 1% is like
SPEAKER_03 (23:27):
maybe millions or like a significant amount.
Yeah.
Wow.
Exactly.
Wow.
That's wild.
Yeah.
So I do want to talk about thebycatch issue now because as
you're talking, I'm hearing liketwo issues simultaneously and
that's how long can you possiblytake the species that you are
(23:49):
targeting and then what aboutthe species that we're losing
that you aren't targeting?
It's like two things happeningsimultaneously that I feel like
there's a problem there if it'sjust...
They're just allowed to kind ofdo what they do.
And it doesn't sound like withmuch like regulation involved or
(24:12):
like they kind of have freedomto do whatever they want because
of, you know, being billiondollar industries when, you
know, the smaller, you know, youknow, fishermen or the, uh, you
know, as a, as a sportsfishermen, um, you know, we get
the notifications like, Hey,Kings are closed this year, or
there's no, you know, low returnof salmon this year.
(24:34):
And it's like, we're feeling iton, you know, at the very bottom
when they're just allowed tokind of do whatever they, they
want to.
So you mentioned some of thethings, uh, that, that, you
know, these, these trawlers areaffecting, how is trawling
affecting Alaska salmonpopulations and the overall, uh,
ecosystem health?
SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
I mean, with, you know, trawling in Alaska.
So, you know, as Ryan wastalking about, you know, the
size of a football field or netswhen, you know, it's the loaded
weight of a Boeing 747, which ismassive.
So in 2023, they caught 10orcas.
Like, could you imagineaccidentally catching an orca or
like much less 10?
(25:13):
So like trawlers come intoAlaska, you know, or federal
waters and They catch anddiscard more than Alaskans are,
you know, along the Yukon areallowed to harvest.
And like, you know, you can goback to the percentages and
whatnot, but like, you know, onesubsistence user, one sports
user, if they catch, uh, youknow, a King salmon, you know,
(25:36):
and not follow the regulations,they lose their license.
They lose their fishing gear andthey're like, you can't fish.
Versus a big industry that'sallowed to continuously catch
and discard and kill, you know,thousands upon thousands and,
you know, millions of pounds ofmarine life and just toss it
overboard.
(25:56):
And, you know, it's businesslike usual.
SPEAKER_03 (25:58):
Yeah, that's and that's just what's wild is that
it's not usable.
Like, it's not just like, oh,this these fish that we didn't
target are in our net.
Let's just let them go.
Like, they're probably going todie.
Like, right.
Like, yeah.
the chances of them living afterbeing caught in that, you know,
those giant nets has, it has tobe pretty slim.
(26:18):
And you're so right.
Like, you know, the regulationscome down hard on the, on the
fishermen and yet these hugeindustries are just kind of let
loose to do what they want.
Are there any like visual oremotional stories that stick
with you when talking abouttalking about this issue?
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
So like, with the last in-person North Pacific
fishery management councilmeeting in February.
Um, like, so that was thelargest in-person gathering of,
you know, indigenous people thatI've seen.
Um, and it was, you know, daysand hours of testimony and like,
I encourage people to go backand listen and, you know, maybe
(26:59):
we can send you links to somepretty heart wrenching stories,
but, um, communities have beenfeeling it and it's, you know,
it was lots of tears, lots of,you know, pointing back to this
is our way of life.
Like we matter too.
Like how can you put industryabove Alaskans and like not hear
(27:20):
us and not like elevate ourissues to like mean as much
there.
It's, it just comes back tolike, it's almost a humanitarian
crisis that actually is ahumanitarian crisis.
Like why is an industry allowedto flourish and, have subsidies,
have like this green or bluewashing while Alaskans who've
(27:42):
like been here, live here,recreate here, lived here for
forever, like feel the brunt ofit versus, you know,
Seattle-based trawlers who justcome to Alaska to get a
paycheck.
So, yeah, those stories of my,you know, one story was like, my
(28:04):
grandson doesn't know the tasteof salmon anymore.
And that breaks my heart becauselike, I, it's really hard to put
into words because it's soconnected to who we are and it's
just, it's heart wrenching.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:26):
Can you talk about, you mentioned the Yukon earlier
and that's the Yukon chum salmonreturn has been, I've seen it in
the news for the last, fewyears, I feel like.
But can you talk about thatspecifically?
Like there's those communitieson the Yukon that are feeling
the brunt of this.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Yeah.
And so with CHUM specifically,there is no CHUM bycatch limit
in federal waters.
So
SPEAKER_03 (28:55):
they're not even, it doesn't matter to them, right?
Like they don't have to evenreport it basically?
I
SPEAKER_00 (29:03):
mean, it's reported, but there's no limit on it.
SPEAKER_03 (29:06):
Wow.
So for some species, there arelimits, but with chum salmon,
there are no limits.
However, there's communities onthe Yukon that have been relying
on the chum salmon return,right?
Yeah.
That's wild.
It's sad.
It's not wild.
It's sad.
(29:27):
Because like you're saying, it'sgenerations of people, a way of
life ingrained in culture, Somuch more than just going to the
grocery store to pick up yourfood.
This is food that you haverelied on coming to you
(29:48):
generation after generation.
And now it's either slowed downor completely stopped in some
cases, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Yeah, for sure.
And then also if you've seenprices for groceries in rural
Alaska.
So I went back home yesterday.
a couple of months ago after mygrandpa's passing and, you know,
I was going to buy my aunt somegroceries, you know, and it was,
you know, just for basicnecessities, you know, as well
over, you know,$200 for not evena week of food.
(30:20):
And it's just like, how is thisfair is kind of the broader
question.
Like, you know, we've lived herefor forever and, um, You know,
it's so ingrained into ourculture and just, you know, our
ways of life.
And somehow you have to go tothe council and lobby and, you
(30:44):
know, ask for basic needs to bemet.
It's just frustrating and justheartbreaking.
SPEAKER_03 (30:55):
So we talked about the numbers a little bit.
Who's reporting the numbers?
Is it the trawlers that arerequired to do the reporting?
Is there like third partyreporters?
I feel like when we're talkingabout like millions, you know,
or billions annually, there hasto be some like, you know, a
(31:20):
small error can still mean alot, right?
So is it the trawlers that haveto do the reporting?
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
Yeah, so there is onboard observer coverage that
does happen.
This is federally certified.
A lot of those observers arethird-party, though.
And so in addition to that,there's also electronic
monitoring, and that occurs inthe Bering Sea and in the Gulf
(31:49):
of Alaska.
There's an opt-in programhappening in the Gulf where– You
know, just to give an example,just last fall, you know, there
was 2,000 Chinook salmon thatwere by caught by two vessels in
one day.
And those were caught, or excuseme, it was observed on
(32:12):
electronic monitoring.
And if those boats did not havethat capability, who's to say
that the members of the publicwould have known that actually
occurred?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (32:23):
So...
I feel like the issue at thispoint is pretty lined out as far
as, you know, we're losing a lotof species that, species of fish
that Alaskans rely on, bothintentionally, you know, the
trawlers are trying to targetspecific species and
(32:44):
unintentionally with all thisbycatch.
So how does this change?
Like we talked about, you know,there's some federal aspect to
this, then there's a stateaspect of, to this, you know,
for this to, to change, where dowe begin?
I
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
just need to add on to that last answer real quick.
So in addition to onboardobservers and electronic
monitoring, those short sideprocessors are also verifying
that by catch number as well.
SPEAKER_03 (33:14):
Gotcha.
So when they get to shore,
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
they're also third party though, you said?
Well, they're, they'reprocessing.
So, you know, they're, Yeah,it's the processing plants.
Gotcha, the processing
SPEAKER_03 (33:25):
plants.
That makes sense because they'reseeing the actual product that's
coming through.
Okay.
So as far as the change aspect,do we start with our local
governments?
Like in Alaska, is it ourrepresentatives and our senators
that have the say?
Are we just subject to whateverthe federal government wants to
(33:48):
do?
How do we work that out?
SPEAKER_00 (33:52):
So like with all like movement building and, you
know, when you're tackling sucha huge issue like this and, you
know, a multi-billion dollarindustry, like every space that
you can bring it up.
So like starting with our statelegislature.
So there is, as Ryan talkedabout, one state managed trawl
fishery.
And while it's only one, itsignals to the federal
(34:14):
government that Alaskans careabout this issue.
There's also polling showingthat 74% of Alaskans went to ban
trawling outright.
which is huge.
I don't think I know of anyother polling that's that high.
It's
SPEAKER_03 (34:27):
hard to get everyone to agree about something.
A lot of Alaskans agree thattrawling is probably a bad idea.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yeah.
I mean, it's a, it's abipartisan issue.
It's, you know, everyone lovesAlaska and our salmon and our
marine life and, you know, thisway of life that, you know,
impacts everyone.
So, you know, there are a way,you know, you can contact your,
you know, local legislator andsay like, I support this.
I support banning.
(34:52):
I want to see a resolution putforward to ban trawling in
Alaska.
I want to support legislationthat encourages the federal
government to take action onthis issue and whatnot.
And then for the congressionallevel, our representatives can
introduce legislation to changethe structure of the North
(35:13):
Pacific Fishery ManagementCouncil, which manages our
federal fishery.
Also, just with social changes,Ryan is really great on our
sticker campaign.
That's just one way of showingthat you support changing the
system.
(35:33):
Every little act adds to thebigger movement building of
stopping this unsustainablepractice.
SPEAKER_03 (35:43):
You touched on the politics side of it.
I think people try to to pickwhich box this fits in for them,
you know, if it aligns withtheir party or not, regardless
of what that is.
But this is one of those thingsthat I feel like transcends that
if you're an Alaskan.
And I think that's the beauty ofit is that we can all get behind
that we're kind of being takenadvantage of with the resources
(36:05):
that we have in our waters withour wild salmon species there.
And then, you know, we're losingout on the ability to feed our
families and to keep this Thankyou.
Thank you.
(36:39):
One, we're doing things likethis.
You guys are very active in thestate.
And like you said, reaching outto our representatives and our
senators.
I do want to touch on something.
I got a letter back from apetition response from Senator
Murkowski.
I had sent, this was about amonth and a half ago, just
(37:00):
saying that I was in favor ofbanning trawling.
And the response, which I assumeit's like a canned response that
they just send out to everyone,was that...
the reduction in salmon returnis due to climate change, as
well as she did acknowledgetrawling.
But she mentioned that climatechange could be a part of that.
(37:22):
And I'm not like a climatechange denier.
I think that the climate doeschange.
But to the amount of fish thatwe're losing objectively, we can
see on paper that I feel like ifyou're trying to change
something, it's much harder tochange the climate than it is to
address these nets in the water.
(37:43):
And she did say that she wasworking on the issue by doing a
couple things.
One of those is...
Let me just pull it up here.
So she mentions increasing thefunding for the NOAA bycatch
reduction engineering program.
So...
(38:04):
she said she was increasing thefunding for that, but I'm like,
how does funding help thebycatch issue?
If nets are still going in thewater, you guys speak to that at
all, as far as that, what thatprogram is, or if there's any,
you know, there's any hope inthat, um, program.
SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
I can start.
Um, I think that like, well,first of all, Salmon State
recognizes that trawling is notthe singular issue that is
affecting our decline inspecies, whether it be salmon or
halibut or crab.
But it's a very largecontributor, and it's something
(38:42):
that can be changed.
It's a human activity that cango through regulation change,
gear type change, et cetera.
And so I just wanted to be clearabout that.
And then as far as fundingresearch goes, I think that
that's important.
(39:02):
We need to come at thesesolutions with a science-based
approach, but we also need tocome at it at an ecosystem-based
approach.
A lot of the North PacificFisheries Management Council,
they have a statistical andscience approach.
committee and they'rerecommending things to the
(39:23):
council.
You know, there's an advisorypanel that is also, um,
recommending things to thecouncil before they take these
votes.
And I think that one thing thatthey, um, you know, need to take
into account is that they'remanaging for a singular species,
a species that is going to makemoney.
You know, this all falls underNOAA, which is currently under
(39:47):
the US Department of Commerce.
So, you know, this is anindustry that's driven to make
money and it's not necessarilyfor the health of our ecosystems
and the species that arecentered.
So, you know, I think thatthere's part of that.
And I think that, you know,there's also like a kind of a
(40:07):
negative connotation that canhappen with some of this funding
for research and stuff.
And that is that like, oh, well,we need to study this and see
what those impacts are.
And so that will take a handfulof years.
Whenever we know that there isthe destruction that's happening
currently, we're past the timeof action and we need to take
(40:30):
that action now.
We know the effects of trawling.
We can see that there's severalplaces across the globe that
have actually banned trawlingbecause of its negative effects.
And, you know, Trawling infederal waters off the coast of
Alaska started back in the early80s, I think.
And so they've kind of gottenaway with a lot.
(40:56):
And it's high time that we needto take drastic action to make
change.
I
SPEAKER_03 (41:03):
agree.
Research, sure, is great.
And we should be looking toscience in some ways to...
Thank you so much.
(41:34):
The other thing that she hadmentioned in her letter back
regarding the issue was, again,it was another funding, research
funding program.
This was the Bristol Bay Scienceand Research Institute chum
salmon bycatch genetic analysistesting.
So she said that if successful,that it would improve the
Pollock fleet's ability to avoidWestern Alaska chum salmon
(41:57):
bycatch.
So I looked into that a littlebit just to figure out what that
meant.
At first, First glance, I waslike, are we genetically
creating chum salmon now?
That's what I thought it was.
Are we doing GMO chum salmon?
But it was not that.
It was, I think, more or lesstrying to identify maybe
location, where they were goingto be at so that the trawling
(42:20):
fleet could avoid those areas.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
Well, I could start off by just saying that the
trawl industry, generallyspeaking, likes to kind of...
push the issue of trauma bycatch under the rug, so to
speak, because a lot of thegenetic data that you're talking
about points to Asian hatcheryfish.
(42:45):
But again, when we talk aboutthese large percentages that the
trawl industry likes to take,they're not accounting for all
of the thousands of fish thatare bound for Western Alaska.
So just to give you an example,51,000 chum salmon were
(43:06):
genetically tested that werebound for Western Alaska salmon
in 2021.
And the trial industry wrotethat off because like, oh, well,
there's hundreds of thousands ofchum salmon that are being by
caught, but they're from Asiahatcheries.
And so it's fine.
And I think that the reality is,is it can't be that that
(43:29):
management system can't bedictated by a genetic marker.
You know, we need to be able tohave these chum salmon return to
their natal streams and not getby caught by this industry.
SPEAKER_03 (43:45):
Yeah.
You'd mentioned other countriesfacing the same issue and coming
to the conclusion that they hadto ban it.
Which, which areas was that,which areas in the world have
done that?
And what did they do to besuccessful?
SPEAKER_01 (44:02):
Yeah, we can look at different countries that have
taken action to ban bottomtrawling.
So if we look at in 2015, Chilenoted sponges and corals as
reasons to ban trawling incertain areas.
(44:23):
And then in 2024, the UK,Greece, and Sweden also banned
bottom trawling.
And then right here at home, butin Southeast Alaska
specifically, in 1998, a groupof fishermen petitioned to stop
(44:43):
trawling.
And so trawling is actuallybanned in Southeast Alaska.
And that was an action that wastaken by the federal government.
So this is a possible...
change that we can make.
It's definitely an uphillbattle, but it is
SPEAKER_03 (45:05):
possible.
That's awesome, and that's goodto hear.
It would be a shame to get tothe point of salmon aren't
returning, that the trawlersleave Alaska waters because
they've decimated thepopulation.
It would be a shame for trawlingto end because of that.
It would be so much better forus to address it now so that we
can ensure that thesepopulations continue to thrive
(45:29):
and in some cases regenerate andcome back.
SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
Yeah.
And I'll just add real quick,um, that this is actually
trawling has as a gear type hasphased out essentially on the
East coast, um, because of theirtarget species, uh, crashed.
Um, and so you're absolutelyright that we need to be, um,
forward thinking and make surethat, uh, we just, we don't
(45:53):
overfish, um, what we have, um,
SPEAKER_03 (45:57):
a little bit.
Off topic, I guess.
Maybe not.
But we were talking about whatwe can do as far as
communicating with our electedleaders and letting them know
that this is an issue for us.
It's an Alaskan issue that wewant to be addressed.
(46:18):
Recently, Governor Dunleavybrought up the concept of fish
farming, which I thought was,I'll just say, very interesting.
I know Alaska is desperate tocreate revenue streams and to
figure out how to get out of adeficit and to make money.
But the idea of fish farmingwhen we are having such a
(46:41):
difficult time managing our wildspecies just seems very bizarre.
What
SPEAKER_01 (46:47):
are your thoughts
SPEAKER_03 (46:49):
on
SPEAKER_01 (46:49):
that?
So essentially, Salmon State isvery opposed to fish farming.
Fish farming, whether it's inthe ocean or on land, can
produce diseases to our wildpopulations by various different
means, whether it be spread byflooding, birds, air, et cetera.
(47:13):
It also can really compete withour wild seafood market and
small boat fishermen.
And so, you know, we need to bereally concerned about that.
And the current bill that'sproposed leaves the five Pacific
salmon off of the table for thiscurrent iteration.
(47:36):
But if this bill were to pass,it could be a stepping stone to
allow salmon farming in Alaska.
And that's just not somethingthat Uh, we as Alaskans can, can
let go.
Yeah.
There's a famous, uh, bumpersticker out of Sitka.
Uh, friends don't let friendseat farm fish.
SPEAKER_03 (47:57):
Yeah.
And I feel like that was thegeneral, um, at least I can only
speak to my circle of friends inmy circle that I have, but yeah,
when the fish farming, it's anHB one 11, when that got, got
brought up, you're just kind oflike, what fish, fish farming?
Um, We have such bigger fish tofry, for lack of a better term.
(48:21):
But I'm glad Salmon State feelsthat way.
I can't imagine that you guyswould be all, yes, fish farming
is the way.
It seems like we need to be goodstewards of what we have right
now before we start trying togenerate something out of
nothing.
So I do want to talk about kindof the path to...
(48:45):
influencing some type ofmeaningful change here.
So Jackie, like you saidearlier, this is likely a issue
that most Alaskans would agreeon.
Um, who is arguing that trawlingis a good idea or is it just the
trawlers?
SPEAKER_00 (49:03):
I mean, it is the trawlers, but I'd be a little
remiss to not acknowledge thatthere's CDQs in Alaska or
community development quotaprograms.
Um, in western alaska and that'skind of a um a nuanced uh
conversation to be had and youknow my family uh being from
(49:24):
western alaska and it's it'scomplicated it like personally
not you know i can't speakbehalf on you know of salmon
state on this but it feels likewith investing and trolling in
that area it feels like you knowyou're getting robbed and then
getting five dollars back Um, soyou can't fish, but you get, you
(49:44):
have this program that will, youknow, provide some economic
value back to the region.
Um, and it's just complicatedand it's unfortunate and it
makes me, um, it makes me prettysad to think about, but going
back to the bigger issue, thislarger industry that's not
(50:05):
Alaska based shouldn't be takingour resources is kind of the
broader issue.
conversation to be had andsomething that we're focusing
on.
Like, why, why are we allowingthis to happen?
SPEAKER_03 (50:23):
So what can like everyday Alaskans do, you know,
now maybe they didn't know aboutthis issue.
Maybe they're better informedabout this issue.
What is the next step in, inyour opinions that kind of gets
momentum behind this for sometype of meaningful change?
SPEAKER_01 (50:42):
Well, I think currently what you can do is
contact your elected officialsand also understanding that
whenever election season rollsaround, that this is an issue
that our politicians, ourelected leaders have control
over, especially our governor,because he's nominating the most
(51:06):
seats to the North PacificFisheries Management Council.
Salmon State's a 501c3 entity,and so we can't support or
oppose a candidate, but it'simportant to know that these
issues are impacted by theelection of a governor.
Also, just our congressionaldelegation that's working in
(51:28):
Washington, D.C.
can write legislation that willupdate fishing practices,
reauthorize the Magnuson-StevensAct, things like that, introduce
bills like our previousrepresentative, Mary Paltola,
that were talking about bottomtrawling and things along those
(51:52):
natures.
I think that also, you know, thecouncil meets five times a year.
And so there's opportunities tocomment to them written ahead of
time and also testifying inperson.
SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
Can I just add one thing?
So, like, you know, as Ryan wastalking about, you know, the
governor's role in, you know,nominating seats to the council.
So he submits names.
It goes to the secretary ofcommerce.
The secretary of commerce isbasically kind of like a rubber
stamp.
So, you know, it makes sense todefer to the state and whatnot.
But that process is inherentlyflawed.
(52:28):
So the governor just submittedthose names in March.
And it's not...
an open process, right?
So like a few people put theirname in, um, there's no public
list.
There's no way to submit like,um, comments other than emailing
boards and commissions.
And, you know, you're not surewho all is there.
(52:50):
So it's mostly like an insiderbaseball game feeling.
Um, and so there's an articlethat came out and, uh, Alaskans
just found out that it's thegovernor submitted, you know,
the same industry, uh,representatives to the council.
Um, and like, I'm a big nerd oncivic engagement and public
policy.
(53:10):
And like, to me, that feels likeinherently flawed.
You need to be able to engageand have a conversation with
your local government and whorepresents you on this huge
council that impacts all ofAlaska.
So, I mean, you know, the namesare already submitted, so you
could contact the secretary ofcommerce.
Um, but there isn't like a frontfacing, um, public engagement
(53:34):
opportunity, which is reallyunfortunate.
So honing in on there needs tobe a better public process.
SPEAKER_03 (53:43):
Yeah.
And I'm learning now that thegovernor's role is, I guess, a
lot larger than I thought it wasin all of this.
I assumed it would come fromSenator Dan Sullivan or Senator
Lisa Murkowski, RepresentativeNick Begich.
Those are the people that cometo mind first.
when I think of like who I needto contact to change this, but
(54:06):
from what you are saying, is ita lot of, at least the, the
council that has a lot ofinfluence comes from, is
appointed by the governor.
So I'm assuming we can reach outto the governor's office as well
about, about this.
SPEAKER_01 (54:19):
Yeah.
And just to kind of throw onemore level, you know, when we
talk about that state managedpollock trawl fishery in Prince
William sounds, you know, thatregulatory body is the board of
fish, same process.
Well, It's a little bitdifferent, but same idea where
the governor is appointing thesemembers to the board and then
(54:40):
the legislature approves them.
So there's actually two nomineesin front of the legislature
right now.
SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
And that is a public process.
So you can submit commentsversus with the North Pacific.
There isn't an oversighthearing.
SPEAKER_03 (55:00):
So looking ahead, you know, if, if you were to
give your magic, I call it amagic wand solution, like where
you're like this, you know, I'mgoing to wave a wand and I'm
going to fix everything.
Um, you know, in not to play thedevil's advocate, but just from
(55:22):
the, from the trawlerstandpoint, they, they're trying
to make money and they aretargeting the species because of
the demand, you know, the, the,the demand is there.
Um, so the, They're trying tofulfill that.
So looking at it from theirperspective, from our
perspective, how do you meet thedemand and how do you reduce
(55:43):
bycatch or eliminate it?
Is there a magic wand solutionfor this issue?
SPEAKER_01 (55:52):
I'll just start off by maybe posing a question.
When it comes to trawling, maybeit's to the point...
where Alaskans need to askthemselves, is this type of gear
still a gear that we want to seefishing our ocean?
Right now, we're working withways to engage with members of
(56:15):
the public through a trawlbycatch policy survey that will
be directed to RepresentativeNick Bugich.
It's something that came out ofone of his town halls.
He kind of put...
Put the question back out toAlaskans.
Where do you want to see meadvocate for?
And so we have listed severaldifferent ways that him as a
(56:41):
representative can take action.
And so we're advertising that tothe public right now.
We want to hear ways not onlyfor the representative, but also
to kind of gut check people.
where we're coming from in thiswork.
And a lot of the things thatwe're already seeing has
resonating.
A lot of people kind of want tosee multiple ways that this is
(57:05):
impacted.
So whether that be reauthorizingthe Magnuson-Stevens Act or
banning bottom trawling orbanning trawling altogether,
those are some of the differentways that we can engage.
And I think that, you know,we've talked about the poll, for
instance.
You know, the first time thatthat question was posed to
(57:28):
Alaskans was, you know, wouldyou ban trawling off the coast
of Alaska and federal waters?
67% of Alaskans said yes.
And two years later, 74% ofAlaskans are saying yes.
So that's also a very importantlitmus test that, you know,
That's a very high number whenit comes to polling.
(57:50):
We started off this discussion,this chat, talking about our
work fighting the Pebble Mine,which is in a good spot.
There needs to be more permanentprotections in Bristol Bay, but
that's in a really good spot,and it's also in a really good
spot in the public view.
People support protectingBristol Bay, but that number
(58:13):
never reached...
74% in public polling.
So, you know, this is a really,really important issue for
Alaskans.
And I think that anyone that'srunning for political office and
in these mediums that we havediscussed today, like need to be
paying attention, like, and itcan't just be a campaign
(58:36):
promise.
It needs to be a campaignpromise that is enacted on.
SPEAKER_03 (58:40):
And I think that goes into my next question was
what gives you hope for that tobe a reality?
And I think it's just that manyAlaskans are unified on this
issue.
SPEAKER_00 (58:50):
Yeah.
And then so just adding to whatRyan was saying and we speak so
eloquently.
Appreciate him.
But like going back to the lastin-person council meeting in
February.
So the advisory panel to theNorth Pacific Fishery Management
Council has one designatedtribal seat.
And that makes recommendation tothe full council.
(59:13):
The full council does not have adesignated tribal seat.
And that's something that manyorganizations and communities
have been advocating for, for along time.
And specifically at thatmeeting, you know, you, you go
back and listen and hear, youknow, so when you provide
(59:33):
testimony council members willask follow-up questions and, you
know, Testifiers would say, oh,I defer to Eva, who is the
tribally designated state on theadvisory panel.
And honestly, she should be onthe council.
We need to have a voice thatrepresents us other than the
(59:57):
status quo industry.
And just looking at that fromthe representation standpoint,
from ecosystem-based management,just looking There needs to be
some change to representation toinclude other voices.
And, you know, that's just oneof the many things that could be
(01:00:19):
done is, you know, adequaterepresentation.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:22):
Right now, you all are here on the Kenai Peninsula.
You have an event at Main StreetTap and Grill tonight, which
this won't come out probablyuntil I think I forgot.
I don't even know where we're atright now.
End of April, probably end ofnext month.
when this episode comes out.
But where else is Samus Stategoing this summer?
(01:00:42):
Any events that you have plannedor places where you plan on
getting this message out?
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:48):
Yeah.
First off, I just want to thankMain Street for hosting us
tonight.
They are one of our severalbusinesses.
So currently we have nearly 50businesses that have signed on
to take action to stop trawlbycatch, and that's businesses
(01:01:09):
from across the state and evenfrom the lower 48.
So if you're a business ownerand you're listening, I would
encourage you to check out ourwebsite, salmonstate.org slash
bycatch, and join your businessas well.
And then to answer your questionabout where we're going to be
next, we don't have something onthe calendar quite yet.
(01:01:33):
However, we're in the process ofof planning out our summer
outreach.
So this will include variousdifferent events that will be
throughout the road system.
And there are events that arealready community organized.
So things like Salmon Fest andMermaid Fest and things like
(01:01:54):
that come to mind, farmersmarkets, things like that.
We'll be looking at those typesof events to host a table.
And then we'll also probably beworking with other business
partners to host something verysimilar to this Main Street
event.
The owner reached out to me aswe were planning our event back
(01:02:16):
in February at 49 State inAnchorage and basically wanted
to take that same message topeople the peninsula, which is
great, and I suspect that otherpeople will continue asking us
to do that, take a littleroadshow.
We've also talked about doing anonline webinar as well for the
(01:02:37):
folks that aren't connecting tothese communities but still want
to hear from the speakers.
We tend to work with businesspartners and people that are
impacted on a daily basis ontrial bycatch issue, and so we
want to make space for thesefolks.
Um, and so we're doing that and,um, you know, we'll be meeting
(01:03:01):
with the business community aswell, um, trying to invite them
in, um, to this work as well,because, um, you know, they
might have billions of dollarson their side, but, um, we
definitely have the people.
SPEAKER_03 (01:03:13):
Yeah, it's true.
Um, so if you're a businessowner and you're listening and
you want to get in touch withsalmon state, um, salmon
state.org, uh, O-R-G and reachout to them, um, And maybe you
can bring them to your business.
They're doing something here onthe peninsula, but they're
willing to get this message outto whoever's willing to listen.
(01:03:36):
It seems like it's an importantissue.
And how do people follow whatSalmon State is doing?
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:44):
Yeah, so we're on Instagram and Facebook.
We're also just starting on BlueSky, which is kind of a newer
platform.
We're also on LinkedIn andYouTube.
And then, of course, we'vementioned the website.
That's another way that, youknow, all of our different
(01:04:05):
petitions are going to be there.
But we'll be posting differentways to get involved on those
social media channels.
We also have a weekly newsletterthat goes out Saturday mornings.
We talk about a lot of thethings that Salmon State works
on, but there's oftentimes atrawl bycatch section that's
(01:04:27):
featured each week.
SPEAKER_03 (01:04:30):
Any final thoughts for the Alaskans listening?
Anything we didn't touch on oranything that you want to add
on?
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:38):
This is actually I wanted to include in the
beginning when we were definingSalmon State.
I just want to kind of put thisout there.
It's something that I starteddoing recently.
Cause people kind of questionwho we are and then we're this
outside entity, but essentiallythat, um, you know, salmon state
is a Alaska based organization.
Um, we have staff and AnchorageEagle river Homer.
(01:05:02):
Um, we also have staff inJuneau, um, Petersburg and
Haines.
Um, so we're kind of spread outand we're working, um, to ensure
that Alaska remains the salmonstate.
UNKNOWN (01:05:13):
So.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:14):
And, you know, just to add to Ryan's thoughts, you
know, I often think about, youknow, banning trawling in
Southeast and how that took likea decade.
And, you know, but it'swinnable, right?
So like you look at these, youknow, I wouldn't call them small
wins, but like very apparentprogression over time.
(01:05:37):
So it's like the more people whotake action, who get involved,
who voice their opinion, who,you you know, sign on their
business, who sign on to apetition, who testify before the
council, who contact, you know,it takes two minutes to email
your representative.
And so like when you show thatsupport for something that you
(01:05:57):
really care about, you move theneedle and things start to
change.
And, you know, it's a winnablefight and it's really
encouraging to see support andchanges to the system.
And that, You know, that's whatreally gets me excited is
engagement and, you know, thosewho represent us actually
(01:06:18):
listening and, you know,changing things.
So it's doable.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:26):
This is going to be a long fight, but we're here to
ensure that wild salmon and theother species that are affected
by trawl bycatch, you know, canhave a chance to rebound and the
people that depend on thosespecies are able to, um, you
know, harvest them to put themup, um, and to ensure that, um,
(01:06:51):
you know, culture, economics,small businesses in Alaska are,
um, protected into the future.
I
SPEAKER_03 (01:06:59):
agree.
And I, I'm hopeful.
I think this is, um, I thinkthis is a great cause.
This is something that comes upmore in conversation now and
just in my circle than I thinkever has before.
People are talking about this.
Every time I see any of ourelected officials put something
(01:07:20):
out on Facebook, it doesn't haveto be fishing related.
There are people in the commentssaying, what about banning
trawling?
They're out there and they'rediligent and they're doing great
work to basically just not staysilent about this.
And so you're right.
It only takes minutes to, to doa petition.
Um, that one that I mentionedearlier that I, I did for, um,
(01:07:43):
Senator Murkowski, it, it wasvery short and it was basically,
um, like two minutes of my day.
And that, you know, now I'm onthe radar.
I'm another person on the radarthat, that, uh, she knows or
her, um, her people know that,you know, trawling is an issue
that I, that I care about.
Um, banning trawling is an issuethat I care about.
(01:08:07):
So get online, salmonstate.org.
You said that there's actuallypetitions on the website.
Cool.
So yeah, start there if you wantto get your name out there and
show your support for whatSalmon State is doing and to
kick these trawlers out ofAlaska.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08:25):
So this is a shameless plug.
So In addition to taking actionand calling your
representatives, you know, we'vementioned that we're up against
a multibillion dollar industry.
Right.
And so I think that donating tograssroots organizations and
tribal organizations, not justSalmon State, we're not the only
organization that is involved inthis fight.
(01:08:48):
But I think that putting yourmoney behind these various
different organizations isimportant, whether that be$10 or
$100.
We need ways to get more peopleinvolved, and advertising takes
money.
And I also want to thank you forhosting us, because this is also
(01:09:10):
a way to get the message outthere.
SPEAKER_03 (01:09:12):
It's our...
I'd say responsibility.
Like you said, it's a longfight, but it's worth it.
And you should start now.
So, Jackie, thank you so muchfor coming down to the
peninsula.
Ryan, thank you.
And I hope, you know, peoplelearn something today and are
encouraged to take action andsee this change in a positive
(01:09:34):
way for Alaska.
UNKNOWN (01:09:37):
Thank you.
We've got Jackie Boyer with me today and Ryan
Astelis with Salmon State.
Thank you both for being herewith me today.
And let's just jump right intoit.
Jackie, what brought you toSalmon State?
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Well, I mean, I personally align with the
mission, like who doesn't lovesalmon in Alaska?
Kind of what it comes down to,but...
Like my background, I kind offell into policy work right
outside of high school and didan internship in our state
legislature.
And I adopted my siblings andlike I'm indigenous.
(00:55):
So like it's kind of ingrainedin my culture to like be a
steward and to take care of ourlands and waters and everything.
So when this opportunity openedup, For this position and to
work at salmon state, I kind ofjumped at it and I absolutely
love everyone at the team.
SPEAKER_03 (01:15):
What is your position with salmon state?
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
So I work on the stop trawl bycatch campaign and,
uh, I'm relatively new to thisorganization, but I've, you
know, in previous positions,I've always partnered with them
and always appreciated the workhere.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Cool.
Ryan, what about you?
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yeah.
After graduating college, I.
Started door knocking againstthe Pebble Mine in an effort to
protect Bristol Bay.
Since then, I have worked indifferent organizations,
different positions, and startedworking part-time with Salmon
(01:53):
State back in 2017.
And when the opportunity arosefor a full-time position, I
jumped on it.
I really love working withSalmon State.
just like Jackie spoke about thework that we are doing and the
people that we work with isreally important to me.
And I think, so my role atSalmon State has kind of evolved
(02:17):
over time, but I'm ouroperations director and that
kind of lumps in a lot ofdifferent tasks, whether that be
admin work, outreach, going todifferent events, and then also
our social media and ourwebsite.
So kind of all over the board.
SPEAKER_03 (02:40):
Salmon State's social media is actually pretty
awesome.
I've been following just for afew months, actually.
I found out about Salmon Statethrough one of the Facebook
pages, Stop Alaskan.
Trawler Bycatch is the name ofthe Facebook page, and it's
huge.
There's like 44,000 people thatfollow this, and I'm assuming
(03:03):
people that live in Alaska andbeyond, but I reached out to the
admin for that page, David Bays,and he was excited about wanting
to discuss this type of issue onthe podcast and suggested...
I believe he suggested it.
It could have been someone else.
(03:23):
I talked to a few people on thatpage about it, but they were
like, you need to talk to SalmonState.
And so I look up Salmon Stateand one beautiful website, clear
cut on what you all are about,what you're doing in the state,
the issues that are importantto, I feel like most Alaskans.
As I look through that, ifyou're an Alaskan, the things
(03:44):
that Salmon State are doing, Ithink you probably should be or
if not already concerned aboutas far as protecting our land,
protecting our salmon.
They're issues that are uniqueto us.
So when I reached out to SalmonState, I talked to Mary
Catherine, and she was quick tosay, we'll find someone for you,
and I appreciate that so muchbecause I think it's an
(04:05):
important issue that we, onethat you are working on and that
we should discuss so that otherpeople can get in on that too.
So this is both of yourfull-time jobs, right?
That's correct.
That's awesome.
So this isn't just somethingyou're doing on a volunteer
basis.
This is your life in a sense.
And I appreciate you all sharingthat with me today.
(04:28):
So I want to learn more aboutSalmon State.
So what would you say themission of Salmon State is?
SPEAKER_01 (04:37):
Yeah.
So Salmon State works to ensurethat wild salmon and the people
that depend on them thrive.
Kind of our...
name is born out of Alaska,making sure that Alaska remains
the salmon state, right?
Just kind of, as you noted,everybody should be connected to
(05:01):
the issues that we work on.
They might not always agree witheverything that we say, but
salmon are a key connector withAlaskans.
And that's the work that we dois for the people and for the
fish.
SPEAKER_03 (05:18):
So we're going to talk today about, you know,
stopping trawler bycatch.
But that's just one of a fewissues Sam Estate is concerned
about and working on.
Is that right?
What are some of the othercampaigns that you guys have
going on?
SPEAKER_01 (05:35):
Yeah, I kind of mentioned it in my intro, but
I'm sure...
The majority of Alaskans knowabout the Pebble Mine that's
proposed in Bristol Bay.
This is one of the issues thatSalmon State's been involved in
for years, along with local...
(05:55):
The United Tribes of Bristol Bayand other partners, we've come
to the table to work on thatissue.
You know, in addition to that,there's several mines on the
British Columbia side of theborder in Canada at the
headwaters of the Stikine,Eunich, and Taku.
Kind of similar impacts of thePebble Mine, but on the Canadian
(06:18):
side, that would impactSoutheast communities.
So we're concerned about that.
We're also looking to, you know,uplift Southeast communities to
kind of give the direction thatthey want to ensure that salmon
streams, trout streams,recreation, tourism is all
important to the Southeastcommunity and economics and make
(06:44):
sure that logging isn't all.
um, destroying that habitat.
Um, cause that's reallyimportant to those fish
populations.
Um, in addition to that, we'realso working on, um, the
proposed West of Sydneyindustrial access road, um,
which is kind of a state funded,um, hundred plus mile road that
(07:07):
would go from big lake out to,um, the, uh, Alaska range, um,
for potential mining claims.
This would cross 180 streams.
It would at least be$600million, probably more with our
inflation and constructionprices these days.
(07:29):
And then also just making surethat public spaces remain
protected for opportunity forAlaskans to recreate, hunt,
fish, and live a subsistencelifestyle.
So, you know, we are reallyconcerned with freshwater
habitats through all thesedifferent campaigns that I just
(07:51):
mentioned.
But we're also concerned withthe ocean space in the way of
trawl bycatch.
You know, salmon in particular,as everyone knows, is an
andromus, and so they live inboth environments.
And so that's important forSalmon State.
SPEAKER_03 (08:09):
I think salmon...
are important to the state, nodoubt.
I'm trying to think of a way tokind of relate it to people that
maybe they don't eat salmon,maybe they don't fish, but
they're still important to thestate.
They're important to a lot of,even though they might not be
important to you, specificallywherever you live, there's other
(08:32):
communities that rely on salmonpopulation, the return of
salmon.
What is...
or I guess why is protectingsalmon such a critical issue so
much so that this organizationexists?
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
From my perspective, I really got into this work
because of indigenous ways oflife and how much we're
interrelated to marine life andland on the water or mammals and
everything that is kind ofingrained in who we are.
(09:12):
And so, I mean, salmon is justkind of the, the lifeline, the
lifeblood of indigenouscommunities.
And like, you know, growing up,everything is kind of
interrelated to like seafood,like growing up.
And my grandma would tell mestories and like cut fish and,
(09:34):
you know, I like to think about,or like when I get discouraged
about things, like, I go back tothinking about processing salmon
with my grandma.
And so like with each salmonthat she would cut, she would,
you know, tangibly give me theheart of each one and like tell
me a story about growing up andcutting salmon with her grandma
and, you know, generationsbefore.
(09:56):
And that's like a way of lifethat existed, you know, since
time immemorial.
And so that's why I think it'sso critical that we work to
protect this because it's aplace that, It's a place that's
always been connected to salmon,and it's our duty to make sure
that continues for the nextgeneration and the next
(10:17):
generation, just the way thatit's gone on for generations
prior.
SPEAKER_03 (10:22):
It does put into perspective that it's more than
just a fish that spawns and goesout to the ocean and comes back.
It's a lot more tied to that,for sure.
So today we're going to talkabout trawling.
It's like predominantly we'regoing to be talking about
(10:42):
trawling.
For those that don't know, whatis trawling?
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Yeah, I can start off with that.
So, you know, there's a lot ofspecifics that go into each type
of gear.
And so I'll kind of explain thison a generalized level.
So you can have two groupings,basically.
You have bottom trawling andthen mid-water, or it's also
(11:11):
known as pelagic trawling.
And so then on top of that, youhave catcher vessels, which are
trawling vessels that go out andcatch the fish, and then they
have to offload that fish,whether it be shore-side
processing or a mother ship.
(11:32):
So a mothership would be afloating processor essentially.
And so that's a boat that is onthe water and these catcher
vessels are bringing that fishto them.
Then at the same time, there'salso catcher processors.
And so they're doing it all inone boat.
So it kind of depends.
(11:54):
And then to kind of go a littlebit more into what pelagic and
bottom trawling is, So pelagicis where they're supposed to be
in the middle of the watercolumn, right?
Catching their fish.
But there's been studies thathave been done where it depends
(12:16):
on what kind of vessel thatthey're operating, but they're
finding that those nets are onthe ground from 40 to 100% of
the time.
And so that has to do a lot withthe weights, the fish that
they're catching, trying tocatch, and there's some issues
with the regulations at theNorth Pacific Fisheries
(12:39):
Management Council that there'snot actually a clear definition
of what that is.
They just talk about it in thesense of what the net looks like
and not actually how they'refishing.
On the other hand, bottomtrawling is specifically
designed to be on the bottom.
It has rollers.
They're dragging that net on thebottom.
(13:00):
in search of those oftentimesflatfish.
And essentially, the issues withthe midwater touching the bottom
is disrupting the habitat, butit also kind of throws in a
loophole, right?
So you have certain areas thatare designated as close to
(13:22):
bottom trawling, And thosemidwater trawls are able to
operate in those areas.
But if they're on the groundbetween 40% and 100% of the
time, they're still impactingthose areas where they're
supposed to be closed.
And that's impacting specieslike crabs where they're molting
and spawning corals that growfor hundreds of years, et
(13:46):
cetera.
So
SPEAKER_03 (13:47):
these trawlers are targeting, you said either like
flatfish on the bottom, Um, butalso like, isn't like walleye
Pollock, is that like another,like highly targeted species of
fish also?
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Yeah.
So largely, um, Pollock ismidwater.
Um, and so that's like kind ofwhen people think about
trawling, they automatically goto Pollock.
Um, you know, these are the fishthat are used for filet of fish
at McDonald's and several otherfast food restaurants.
They are made into fish sticks.
(14:21):
Um, They're even coming out withlike breaded filets at
supermarkets.
And interestingly enough,imitation crab or surimi is
ground up and highly processedpollock made into crab sticks.
And so the flatfish aretypically flounders, sole,
(14:47):
different species like that thatare living on the bottom.
And One other species that'scaught mid-water is cod.
SPEAKER_03 (14:57):
What's the quantity we're talking about here with
these nets and the amount offish that they're trying to
bring in at one time?
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
Over the course of the year, billions
SPEAKER_03 (15:09):
of pounds.
Billions with a B.
Yeah, it's a lot.
And these nets are enormous insize.
They...
I think I've read that they'relike, maybe it was on the San
Jose website, like as long as afootball field, like they're
huge, right?
And like they're trying totarget specific species, but in
(15:33):
the process of that, other stuffis getting into the net as well,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
Yeah.
So just like you said, they'respread out the size of a
football field and they'reindiscriminately catching these
species.
It kind of tapers down into acone, which is oftentimes
referred to as the cod end.
And that is pulling through thewater.
And in the process, they'reindiscriminately catching
(16:02):
species that Alaskans careabout.
whether it be culturally,economically, or just, you know,
wanting to fill our freezers,you know.
So this includes salmon,halibut, crab, herring, black
cod, et cetera.
You know, just a couple yearsago, you know, they actually
caught orcas.
(16:23):
And just this last year theycaught another one.
And so there's also a lot ofmarine mammals that, and sharks
and things like that that don'tmake it onto the publicly
available bycatch data.
And so then there's left onpeople or organizations to do
(16:45):
what's called a FOIA request.
And they're, you know,petitioning the government
essentially to release thatdata.
And when they do, they beingNOAA, you know, it's highly
pixelated.
And so then those organizationsthen have to follow up and sue
the government to actually seewhat these vessels are actually
(17:07):
bycatching.
So it's really problematic.
Can you clarify what NOAA is?
National Oceanic and AtmosphereAdministration.
SPEAKER_03 (17:16):
So where, like, is this all across the, I mean, I'm
thinking about like, You know,Alaska is a state.
We've got a lot of ocean.
You know, we border a lot ofocean.
We've got a lot of coastalcommunities.
Where is this trawlinghappening?
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
Yeah, so it's a good question.
A lot of the problem and themajority of the trawling happens
in federally managed water.
So that's between 300 and 200miles off the coast of Alaska.
And so there's Gulf of Alaska,and then there's also the Bering
Sea.
And that's where a lot of thetrawling is occurring.
(17:53):
There's one state-managedPollock trawl fishery that
occurs in Prince Williamstown.
It's a rather short season.
It goes from January 20th toMarch 31st.
Although this year, they wrappedup rather quickly because they
met their quota.
So they were already...
(18:15):
done fishing Prince Williamstownby February 18th because they
had, um, caught 9 million poundsof Pollock.
SPEAKER_03 (18:24):
Yeah.
Those numbers are hard to likegrasp.
But when you think about likethe amount of amount of fish
that they're taking in is, itseems, it seems crazy because
it's every year, year afteryear, I'm assuming, right?
Like they didn't just starttrawling.
Trawling has been going on for awhile, I'm guessing.
Um, who are like the majorplayers in, in like this
(18:47):
trawling industry?
Um, like these, are thesecompanies based in Alaska?
Are they out of state?
Are they internationally?
Like you mentioned, you know,the, you know, it was a 200
miles outside of Alaska, um, isconsidered federal water.
So could they be, are they, arethere international players here
(19:07):
or is it, um, are these allcompanies based in the state
that are doing this?
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Yeah, so there is international trawling that is
occurring, Russian trawling,that kind of thing, but we're
really focused on what we caninfluence, and that's the
federal waters, right?
And so a lot of these companiesare sending their trawl boats
from Washington, Oregon, andthen there's a small fleet
(19:34):
that's actually based out ofKodiak.
SPEAKER_03 (19:38):
Okay, so there are other states involved basically
send in these trawler fleets.
It's not just like an Alaska,you know, these aren't just
Alaskan companies.
They're coming from out of stateas well.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
Yeah.
So this federally managed watersis considered the North Pacific.
And so that's managed by theNorth Pacific fisheries
management council.
And the members that make upthat body include members that
are appointed by the Alaska,Washington and Oregon governors.
SPEAKER_03 (20:05):
So you mentioned some, like you mentioned like
McDonald's, like Filet-O-Fish,some of these other, products
that are kind of keeping thedemand up for these trawlers to
do what they do.
But as I looked into trawlingand what that was, and just to
see it from that perspective,they have this claim that it's
(20:26):
sustainable is actually the wordthat they use.
And again, I'm not like, I'mjust a layman and learning all
of this.
But when you hear about like themillions and millions of fish
that are being taken.
When you, we're going to talkabout the bycatch and like when
we learn about the amount offish that are, are being lost,
(20:48):
um, in the process of, of this,you know, these trawling fleets,
it's hard to justify in my ownunderstanding that this is
something that is sustainable,which means we can do it for a
long time and there's enough,you know, regrowth, um, in
return.
Like it just doesn't make sense.
Um, so, um, back to the questionwas, you know, who's, who's
(21:10):
benefiting from, from what thesetrawlers are doing.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
So, um, to your question about sustainability.
So a lot of, um, trial copproducts, um, kind of make it
into, um, the market and, um,restaurants with a stamp of
approval, quote unquote.
Um, this is, um, the MarineStewardship Council that you
might see a little stamp oflittle blue fish stamp on
(21:36):
products such as the flail fish.
Um, and those are dubbed assustainable.
Um, you know, that body, um, youknow, certification body, um,
you know, might have goodintentions, um, but They do
certify sustainable fisheries,like certain ways of salmon
(21:59):
fishing, for example.
However, it is a little bit of apay-to-play game.
And so whenever you have amulti-billion dollar industry
like the trawl industry, that ispretty easy for them to pay for
this industry.
blue washing, if you will.
Right.
Um, and so whenever folks, um,have come to trust this blue
(22:23):
fish stamp, um, and they're inthe supermarket, you know, they
will see that it's sustainable,but, you know, unfortunately
it's not because of the numberof, uh, species that are
becoming victim of bycatch, um,There's also issues with bottom
trawling, ruining the habitat onthe ocean floor.
(22:44):
There's also been studies thathave been done that is
contributing to carbon emissionsby rototilling the seafloor,
essentially.
So there's that.
There's also claims that thetrawl industry will like to call
that they're sustainable basedon percentages, right?
(23:07):
And so they're taking in such alarge consumption of this
whitefish, whether it be pollockor flatfish, whatever, that they
can put out, oh, we're only at1% by catch.
But 1% is like
SPEAKER_03 (23:27):
maybe millions or like a significant amount.
Yeah.
Wow.
Exactly.
Wow.
That's wild.
Yeah.
So I do want to talk about thebycatch issue now because as
you're talking, I'm hearing liketwo issues simultaneously and
that's how long can you possiblytake the species that you are
(23:49):
targeting and then what aboutthe species that we're losing
that you aren't targeting?
It's like two things happeningsimultaneously that I feel like
there's a problem there if it'sjust...
They're just allowed to kind ofdo what they do.
And it doesn't sound like withmuch like regulation involved or
(24:12):
like they kind of have freedomto do whatever they want because
of, you know, being billiondollar industries when, you
know, the smaller, you know, youknow, fishermen or the, uh, you
know, as a, as a sportsfishermen, um, you know, we get
the notifications like, Hey,Kings are closed this year, or
there's no, you know, low returnof salmon this year.
(24:34):
And it's like, we're feeling iton, you know, at the very bottom
when they're just allowed tokind of do whatever they, they
want to.
So you mentioned some of thethings, uh, that, that, you
know, these, these trawlers areaffecting, how is trawling
affecting Alaska salmonpopulations and the overall, uh,
ecosystem health?
SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
I mean, with, you know, trawling in Alaska.
So, you know, as Ryan wastalking about, you know, the
size of a football field or netswhen, you know, it's the loaded
weight of a Boeing 747, which ismassive.
So in 2023, they caught 10orcas.
Like, could you imagineaccidentally catching an orca or
like much less 10?
(25:13):
So like trawlers come intoAlaska, you know, or federal
waters and They catch anddiscard more than Alaskans are,
you know, along the Yukon areallowed to harvest.
And like, you know, you can goback to the percentages and
whatnot, but like, you know, onesubsistence user, one sports
user, if they catch, uh, youknow, a King salmon, you know,
(25:36):
and not follow the regulations,they lose their license.
They lose their fishing gear andthey're like, you can't fish.
Versus a big industry that'sallowed to continuously catch
and discard and kill, you know,thousands upon thousands and,
you know, millions of pounds ofmarine life and just toss it
overboard.
(25:56):
And, you know, it's businesslike usual.
SPEAKER_03 (25:58):
Yeah, that's and that's just what's wild is that
it's not usable.
Like, it's not just like, oh,this these fish that we didn't
target are in our net.
Let's just let them go.
Like, they're probably going todie.
Like, right.
Like, yeah.
the chances of them living afterbeing caught in that, you know,
those giant nets has, it has tobe pretty slim.
(26:18):
And you're so right.
Like, you know, the regulationscome down hard on the, on the
fishermen and yet these hugeindustries are just kind of let
loose to do what they want.
Are there any like visual oremotional stories that stick
with you when talking abouttalking about this issue?
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
So like, with the last in-person North Pacific
fishery management councilmeeting in February.
Um, like, so that was thelargest in-person gathering of,
you know, indigenous people thatI've seen.
Um, and it was, you know, daysand hours of testimony and like,
I encourage people to go backand listen and, you know, maybe
(26:59):
we can send you links to somepretty heart wrenching stories,
but, um, communities have beenfeeling it and it's, you know,
it was lots of tears, lots of,you know, pointing back to this
is our way of life.
Like we matter too.
Like how can you put industryabove Alaskans and like not hear
(27:20):
us and not like elevate ourissues to like mean as much
there.
It's, it just comes back tolike, it's almost a humanitarian
crisis that actually is ahumanitarian crisis.
Like why is an industry allowedto flourish and, have subsidies,
have like this green or bluewashing while Alaskans who've
(27:42):
like been here, live here,recreate here, lived here for
forever, like feel the brunt ofit versus, you know,
Seattle-based trawlers who justcome to Alaska to get a
paycheck.
So, yeah, those stories of my,you know, one story was like, my
(28:04):
grandson doesn't know the tasteof salmon anymore.
And that breaks my heart becauselike, I, it's really hard to put
into words because it's soconnected to who we are and it's
just, it's heart wrenching.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:26):
Can you talk about, you mentioned the Yukon earlier
and that's the Yukon chum salmonreturn has been, I've seen it in
the news for the last, fewyears, I feel like.
But can you talk about thatspecifically?
Like there's those communitieson the Yukon that are feeling
the brunt of this.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Yeah.
And so with CHUM specifically,there is no CHUM bycatch limit
in federal waters.
So
SPEAKER_03 (28:55):
they're not even, it doesn't matter to them, right?
Like they don't have to evenreport it basically?
I
SPEAKER_00 (29:03):
mean, it's reported, but there's no limit on it.
SPEAKER_03 (29:06):
Wow.
So for some species, there arelimits, but with chum salmon,
there are no limits.
However, there's communities onthe Yukon that have been relying
on the chum salmon return,right?
Yeah.
That's wild.
It's sad.
It's not wild.
It's sad.
(29:27):
Because like you're saying, it'sgenerations of people, a way of
life ingrained in culture, Somuch more than just going to the
grocery store to pick up yourfood.
This is food that you haverelied on coming to you
(29:48):
generation after generation.
And now it's either slowed downor completely stopped in some
cases, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Yeah, for sure.
And then also if you've seenprices for groceries in rural
Alaska.
So I went back home yesterday.
a couple of months ago after mygrandpa's passing and, you know,
I was going to buy my aunt somegroceries, you know, and it was,
you know, just for basicnecessities, you know, as well
over, you know,$200 for not evena week of food.
(30:20):
And it's just like, how is thisfair is kind of the broader
question.
Like, you know, we've lived herefor forever and, um, You know,
it's so ingrained into ourculture and just, you know, our
ways of life.
And somehow you have to go tothe council and lobby and, you
(30:44):
know, ask for basic needs to bemet.
It's just frustrating and justheartbreaking.
SPEAKER_03 (30:55):
So we talked about the numbers a little bit.
Who's reporting the numbers?
Is it the trawlers that arerequired to do the reporting?
Is there like third partyreporters?
I feel like when we're talkingabout like millions, you know,
or billions annually, there hasto be some like, you know, a
(31:20):
small error can still mean alot, right?
So is it the trawlers that haveto do the reporting?
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
Yeah, so there is onboard observer coverage that
does happen.
This is federally certified.
A lot of those observers arethird-party, though.
And so in addition to that,there's also electronic
monitoring, and that occurs inthe Bering Sea and in the Gulf
(31:49):
of Alaska.
There's an opt-in programhappening in the Gulf where– You
know, just to give an example,just last fall, you know, there
was 2,000 Chinook salmon thatwere by caught by two vessels in
one day.
And those were caught, or excuseme, it was observed on
(32:12):
electronic monitoring.
And if those boats did not havethat capability, who's to say
that the members of the publicwould have known that actually
occurred?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (32:23):
So...
I feel like the issue at thispoint is pretty lined out as far
as, you know, we're losing a lotof species that, species of fish
that Alaskans rely on, bothintentionally, you know, the
trawlers are trying to targetspecific species and
(32:44):
unintentionally with all thisbycatch.
So how does this change?
Like we talked about, you know,there's some federal aspect to
this, then there's a stateaspect of, to this, you know,
for this to, to change, where dowe begin?
I
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
just need to add on to that last answer real quick.
So in addition to onboardobservers and electronic
monitoring, those short sideprocessors are also verifying
that by catch number as well.
SPEAKER_03 (33:14):
Gotcha.
So when they get to shore,
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
they're also third party though, you said?
Well, they're, they'reprocessing.
So, you know, they're, Yeah,it's the processing plants.
Gotcha, the processing
SPEAKER_03 (33:25):
plants.
That makes sense because they'reseeing the actual product that's
coming through.
Okay.
So as far as the change aspect,do we start with our local
governments?
Like in Alaska, is it ourrepresentatives and our senators
that have the say?
Are we just subject to whateverthe federal government wants to
(33:48):
do?
How do we work that out?
SPEAKER_00 (33:52):
So like with all like movement building and, you
know, when you're tackling sucha huge issue like this and, you
know, a multi-billion dollarindustry, like every space that
you can bring it up.
So like starting with our statelegislature.
So there is, as Ryan talkedabout, one state managed trawl
fishery.
And while it's only one, itsignals to the federal
(34:14):
government that Alaskans careabout this issue.
There's also polling showingthat 74% of Alaskans went to ban
trawling outright.
which is huge.
I don't think I know of anyother polling that's that high.
It's
SPEAKER_03 (34:27):
hard to get everyone to agree about something.
A lot of Alaskans agree thattrawling is probably a bad idea.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yeah.
I mean, it's a, it's abipartisan issue.
It's, you know, everyone lovesAlaska and our salmon and our
marine life and, you know, thisway of life that, you know,
impacts everyone.
So, you know, there are a way,you know, you can contact your,
you know, local legislator andsay like, I support this.
I support banning.
(34:52):
I want to see a resolution putforward to ban trawling in
Alaska.
I want to support legislationthat encourages the federal
government to take action onthis issue and whatnot.
And then for the congressionallevel, our representatives can
introduce legislation to changethe structure of the North
(35:13):
Pacific Fishery ManagementCouncil, which manages our
federal fishery.
Also, just with social changes,Ryan is really great on our
sticker campaign.
That's just one way of showingthat you support changing the
system.
(35:33):
Every little act adds to thebigger movement building of
stopping this unsustainablepractice.
SPEAKER_03 (35:43):
You touched on the politics side of it.
I think people try to to pickwhich box this fits in for them,
you know, if it aligns withtheir party or not, regardless
of what that is.
But this is one of those thingsthat I feel like transcends that
if you're an Alaskan.
And I think that's the beauty ofit is that we can all get behind
that we're kind of being takenadvantage of with the resources
(36:05):
that we have in our waters withour wild salmon species there.
And then, you know, we're losingout on the ability to feed our
families and to keep this Thankyou.
Thank you.
(36:39):
One, we're doing things likethis.
You guys are very active in thestate.
And like you said, reaching outto our representatives and our
senators.
I do want to touch on something.
I got a letter back from apetition response from Senator
Murkowski.
I had sent, this was about amonth and a half ago, just
(37:00):
saying that I was in favor ofbanning trawling.
And the response, which I assumeit's like a canned response that
they just send out to everyone,was that...
the reduction in salmon returnis due to climate change, as
well as she did acknowledgetrawling.
But she mentioned that climatechange could be a part of that.
(37:22):
And I'm not like a climatechange denier.
I think that the climate doeschange.
But to the amount of fish thatwe're losing objectively, we can
see on paper that I feel like ifyou're trying to change
something, it's much harder tochange the climate than it is to
address these nets in the water.
(37:43):
And she did say that she wasworking on the issue by doing a
couple things.
One of those is...
Let me just pull it up here.
So she mentions increasing thefunding for the NOAA bycatch
reduction engineering program.
So...
(38:04):
she said she was increasing thefunding for that, but I'm like,
how does funding help thebycatch issue?
If nets are still going in thewater, you guys speak to that at
all, as far as that, what thatprogram is, or if there's any,
you know, there's any hope inthat, um, program.
SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
I can start.
Um, I think that like, well,first of all, Salmon State
recognizes that trawling is notthe singular issue that is
affecting our decline inspecies, whether it be salmon or
halibut or crab.
But it's a very largecontributor, and it's something
(38:42):
that can be changed.
It's a human activity that cango through regulation change,
gear type change, et cetera.
And so I just wanted to be clearabout that.
And then as far as fundingresearch goes, I think that
that's important.
(39:02):
We need to come at thesesolutions with a science-based
approach, but we also need tocome at it at an ecosystem-based
approach.
A lot of the North PacificFisheries Management Council,
they have a statistical andscience approach.
committee and they'rerecommending things to the
(39:23):
council.
You know, there's an advisorypanel that is also, um,
recommending things to thecouncil before they take these
votes.
And I think that one thing thatthey, um, you know, need to take
into account is that they'remanaging for a singular species,
a species that is going to makemoney.
You know, this all falls underNOAA, which is currently under
(39:47):
the US Department of Commerce.
So, you know, this is anindustry that's driven to make
money and it's not necessarilyfor the health of our ecosystems
and the species that arecentered.
So, you know, I think thatthere's part of that.
And I think that, you know,there's also like a kind of a
(40:07):
negative connotation that canhappen with some of this funding
for research and stuff.
And that is that like, oh, well,we need to study this and see
what those impacts are.
And so that will take a handfulof years.
Whenever we know that there isthe destruction that's happening
currently, we're past the timeof action and we need to take
(40:30):
that action now.
We know the effects of trawling.
We can see that there's severalplaces across the globe that
have actually banned trawlingbecause of its negative effects.
And, you know, Trawling infederal waters off the coast of
Alaska started back in the early80s, I think.
And so they've kind of gottenaway with a lot.
(40:56):
And it's high time that we needto take drastic action to make
change.
I
SPEAKER_03 (41:03):
agree.
Research, sure, is great.
And we should be looking toscience in some ways to...
Thank you so much.
(41:34):
The other thing that she hadmentioned in her letter back
regarding the issue was, again,it was another funding, research
funding program.
This was the Bristol Bay Scienceand Research Institute chum
salmon bycatch genetic analysistesting.
So she said that if successful,that it would improve the
Pollock fleet's ability to avoidWestern Alaska chum salmon
(41:57):
bycatch.
So I looked into that a littlebit just to figure out what that
meant.
At first, First glance, I waslike, are we genetically
creating chum salmon now?
That's what I thought it was.
Are we doing GMO chum salmon?
But it was not that.
It was, I think, more or lesstrying to identify maybe
location, where they were goingto be at so that the trawling
(42:20):
fleet could avoid those areas.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
Well, I could start off by just saying that the
trawl industry, generallyspeaking, likes to kind of...
push the issue of trauma bycatch under the rug, so to
speak, because a lot of thegenetic data that you're talking
about points to Asian hatcheryfish.
(42:45):
But again, when we talk aboutthese large percentages that the
trawl industry likes to take,they're not accounting for all
of the thousands of fish thatare bound for Western Alaska.
So just to give you an example,51,000 chum salmon were
(43:06):
genetically tested that werebound for Western Alaska salmon
in 2021.
And the trial industry wrotethat off because like, oh, well,
there's hundreds of thousands ofchum salmon that are being by
caught, but they're from Asiahatcheries.
And so it's fine.
And I think that the reality is,is it can't be that that
(43:29):
management system can't bedictated by a genetic marker.
You know, we need to be able tohave these chum salmon return to
their natal streams and not getby caught by this industry.
SPEAKER_03 (43:45):
Yeah.
You'd mentioned other countriesfacing the same issue and coming
to the conclusion that they hadto ban it.
Which, which areas was that,which areas in the world have
done that?
And what did they do to besuccessful?
SPEAKER_01 (44:02):
Yeah, we can look at different countries that have
taken action to ban bottomtrawling.
So if we look at in 2015, Chilenoted sponges and corals as
reasons to ban trawling incertain areas.
(44:23):
And then in 2024, the UK,Greece, and Sweden also banned
bottom trawling.
And then right here at home, butin Southeast Alaska
specifically, in 1998, a groupof fishermen petitioned to stop
(44:43):
trawling.
And so trawling is actuallybanned in Southeast Alaska.
And that was an action that wastaken by the federal government.
So this is a possible...
change that we can make.
It's definitely an uphillbattle, but it is
SPEAKER_03 (45:05):
possible.
That's awesome, and that's goodto hear.
It would be a shame to get tothe point of salmon aren't
returning, that the trawlersleave Alaska waters because
they've decimated thepopulation.
It would be a shame for trawlingto end because of that.
It would be so much better forus to address it now so that we
can ensure that thesepopulations continue to thrive
(45:29):
and in some cases regenerate andcome back.
SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
Yeah.
And I'll just add real quick,um, that this is actually
trawling has as a gear type hasphased out essentially on the
East coast, um, because of theirtarget species, uh, crashed.
Um, and so you're absolutelyright that we need to be, um,
forward thinking and make surethat, uh, we just, we don't
(45:53):
overfish, um, what we have, um,
SPEAKER_03 (45:57):
a little bit.
Off topic, I guess.
Maybe not.
But we were talking about whatwe can do as far as
communicating with our electedleaders and letting them know
that this is an issue for us.
It's an Alaskan issue that wewant to be addressed.
(46:18):
Recently, Governor Dunleavybrought up the concept of fish
farming, which I thought was,I'll just say, very interesting.
I know Alaska is desperate tocreate revenue streams and to
figure out how to get out of adeficit and to make money.
But the idea of fish farmingwhen we are having such a
(46:41):
difficult time managing our wildspecies just seems very bizarre.
What
SPEAKER_01 (46:47):
are your thoughts
SPEAKER_03 (46:49):
on
SPEAKER_01 (46:49):
that?
So essentially, Salmon State isvery opposed to fish farming.
Fish farming, whether it's inthe ocean or on land, can
produce diseases to our wildpopulations by various different
means, whether it be spread byflooding, birds, air, et cetera.
(47:13):
It also can really compete withour wild seafood market and
small boat fishermen.
And so, you know, we need to bereally concerned about that.
And the current bill that'sproposed leaves the five Pacific
salmon off of the table for thiscurrent iteration.
(47:36):
But if this bill were to pass,it could be a stepping stone to
allow salmon farming in Alaska.
And that's just not somethingthat Uh, we as Alaskans can, can
let go.
Yeah.
There's a famous, uh, bumpersticker out of Sitka.
Uh, friends don't let friendseat farm fish.
SPEAKER_03 (47:57):
Yeah.
And I feel like that was thegeneral, um, at least I can only
speak to my circle of friends inmy circle that I have, but yeah,
when the fish farming, it's anHB one 11, when that got, got
brought up, you're just kind oflike, what fish, fish farming?
Um, We have such bigger fish tofry, for lack of a better term.
(48:21):
But I'm glad Salmon State feelsthat way.
I can't imagine that you guyswould be all, yes, fish farming
is the way.
It seems like we need to be goodstewards of what we have right
now before we start trying togenerate something out of
nothing.
So I do want to talk about kindof the path to...
(48:45):
influencing some type ofmeaningful change here.
So Jackie, like you saidearlier, this is likely a issue
that most Alaskans would agreeon.
Um, who is arguing that trawlingis a good idea or is it just the
trawlers?
SPEAKER_00 (49:03):
I mean, it is the trawlers, but I'd be a little
remiss to not acknowledge thatthere's CDQs in Alaska or
community development quotaprograms.
Um, in western alaska and that'skind of a um a nuanced uh
conversation to be had and youknow my family uh being from
(49:24):
western alaska and it's it'scomplicated it like personally
not you know i can't speakbehalf on you know of salmon
state on this but it feels likewith investing and trolling in
that area it feels like you knowyou're getting robbed and then
getting five dollars back Um, soyou can't fish, but you get, you
(49:44):
have this program that will, youknow, provide some economic
value back to the region.
Um, and it's just complicatedand it's unfortunate and it
makes me, um, it makes me prettysad to think about, but going
back to the bigger issue, thislarger industry that's not
(50:05):
Alaska based shouldn't be takingour resources is kind of the
broader issue.
conversation to be had andsomething that we're focusing
on.
Like, why, why are we allowingthis to happen?
SPEAKER_03 (50:23):
So what can like everyday Alaskans do, you know,
now maybe they didn't know aboutthis issue.
Maybe they're better informedabout this issue.
What is the next step in, inyour opinions that kind of gets
momentum behind this for sometype of meaningful change?
SPEAKER_01 (50:42):
Well, I think currently what you can do is
contact your elected officialsand also understanding that
whenever election season rollsaround, that this is an issue
that our politicians, ourelected leaders have control
over, especially our governor,because he's nominating the most
(51:06):
seats to the North PacificFisheries Management Council.
Salmon State's a 501c3 entity,and so we can't support or
oppose a candidate, but it'simportant to know that these
issues are impacted by theelection of a governor.
Also, just our congressionaldelegation that's working in
(51:28):
Washington, D.C.
can write legislation that willupdate fishing practices,
reauthorize the Magnuson-StevensAct, things like that, introduce
bills like our previousrepresentative, Mary Paltola,
that were talking about bottomtrawling and things along those
(51:52):
natures.
I think that also, you know, thecouncil meets five times a year.
And so there's opportunities tocomment to them written ahead of
time and also testifying inperson.
SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
Can I just add one thing?
So, like, you know, as Ryan wastalking about, you know, the
governor's role in, you know,nominating seats to the council.
So he submits names.
It goes to the secretary ofcommerce.
The secretary of commerce isbasically kind of like a rubber
stamp.
So, you know, it makes sense todefer to the state and whatnot.
But that process is inherentlyflawed.
(52:28):
So the governor just submittedthose names in March.
And it's not...
an open process, right?
So like a few people put theirname in, um, there's no public
list.
There's no way to submit like,um, comments other than emailing
boards and commissions.
And, you know, you're not surewho all is there.
(52:50):
So it's mostly like an insiderbaseball game feeling.
Um, and so there's an articlethat came out and, uh, Alaskans
just found out that it's thegovernor submitted, you know,
the same industry, uh,representatives to the council.
Um, and like, I'm a big nerd oncivic engagement and public
policy.
(53:10):
And like, to me, that feels likeinherently flawed.
You need to be able to engageand have a conversation with
your local government and whorepresents you on this huge
council that impacts all ofAlaska.
So, I mean, you know, the namesare already submitted, so you
could contact the secretary ofcommerce.
Um, but there isn't like a frontfacing, um, public engagement
(53:34):
opportunity, which is reallyunfortunate.
So honing in on there needs tobe a better public process.
SPEAKER_03 (53:43):
Yeah.
And I'm learning now that thegovernor's role is, I guess, a
lot larger than I thought it wasin all of this.
I assumed it would come fromSenator Dan Sullivan or Senator
Lisa Murkowski, RepresentativeNick Begich.
Those are the people that cometo mind first.
when I think of like who I needto contact to change this, but
(54:06):
from what you are saying, is ita lot of, at least the, the
council that has a lot ofinfluence comes from, is
appointed by the governor.
So I'm assuming we can reach outto the governor's office as well
about, about this.
SPEAKER_01 (54:19):
Yeah.
And just to kind of throw onemore level, you know, when we
talk about that state managedpollock trawl fishery in Prince
William sounds, you know, thatregulatory body is the board of
fish, same process.
Well, It's a little bitdifferent, but same idea where
the governor is appointing thesemembers to the board and then
(54:40):
the legislature approves them.
So there's actually two nomineesin front of the legislature
right now.
SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
And that is a public process.
So you can submit commentsversus with the North Pacific.
There isn't an oversighthearing.
SPEAKER_03 (55:00):
So looking ahead, you know, if, if you were to
give your magic, I call it amagic wand solution, like where
you're like this, you know, I'mgoing to wave a wand and I'm
going to fix everything.
Um, you know, in not to play thedevil's advocate, but just from
(55:22):
the, from the trawlerstandpoint, they, they're trying
to make money and they aretargeting the species because of
the demand, you know, the, the,the demand is there.
Um, so the, They're trying tofulfill that.
So looking at it from theirperspective, from our
perspective, how do you meet thedemand and how do you reduce
(55:43):
bycatch or eliminate it?
Is there a magic wand solutionfor this issue?
SPEAKER_01 (55:52):
I'll just start off by maybe posing a question.
When it comes to trawling, maybeit's to the point...
where Alaskans need to askthemselves, is this type of gear
still a gear that we want to seefishing our ocean?
Right now, we're working withways to engage with members of
(56:15):
the public through a trawlbycatch policy survey that will
be directed to RepresentativeNick Bugich.
It's something that came out ofone of his town halls.
He kind of put...
Put the question back out toAlaskans.
Where do you want to see meadvocate for?
And so we have listed severaldifferent ways that him as a
(56:41):
representative can take action.
And so we're advertising that tothe public right now.
We want to hear ways not onlyfor the representative, but also
to kind of gut check people.
where we're coming from in thiswork.
And a lot of the things thatwe're already seeing has
resonating.
A lot of people kind of want tosee multiple ways that this is
(57:05):
impacted.
So whether that be reauthorizingthe Magnuson-Stevens Act or
banning bottom trawling orbanning trawling altogether,
those are some of the differentways that we can engage.
And I think that, you know,we've talked about the poll, for
instance.
You know, the first time thatthat question was posed to
(57:28):
Alaskans was, you know, wouldyou ban trawling off the coast
of Alaska and federal waters?
67% of Alaskans said yes.
And two years later, 74% ofAlaskans are saying yes.
So that's also a very importantlitmus test that, you know,
That's a very high number whenit comes to polling.
(57:50):
We started off this discussion,this chat, talking about our
work fighting the Pebble Mine,which is in a good spot.
There needs to be more permanentprotections in Bristol Bay, but
that's in a really good spot,and it's also in a really good
spot in the public view.
People support protectingBristol Bay, but that number
(58:13):
never reached...
74% in public polling.
So, you know, this is a really,really important issue for
Alaskans.
And I think that anyone that'srunning for political office and
in these mediums that we havediscussed today, like need to be
paying attention, like, and itcan't just be a campaign
(58:36):
promise.
It needs to be a campaignpromise that is enacted on.
SPEAKER_03 (58:40):
And I think that goes into my next question was
what gives you hope for that tobe a reality?
And I think it's just that manyAlaskans are unified on this
issue.
SPEAKER_00 (58:50):
Yeah.
And then so just adding to whatRyan was saying and we speak so
eloquently.
Appreciate him.
But like going back to the lastin-person council meeting in
February.
So the advisory panel to theNorth Pacific Fishery Management
Council has one designatedtribal seat.
And that makes recommendation tothe full council.
(59:13):
The full council does not have adesignated tribal seat.
And that's something that manyorganizations and communities
have been advocating for, for along time.
And specifically at thatmeeting, you know, you, you go
back and listen and hear, youknow, so when you provide
(59:33):
testimony council members willask follow-up questions and, you
know, Testifiers would say, oh,I defer to Eva, who is the
tribally designated state on theadvisory panel.
And honestly, she should be onthe council.
We need to have a voice thatrepresents us other than the
(59:57):
status quo industry.
And just looking at that fromthe representation standpoint,
from ecosystem-based management,just looking There needs to be
some change to representation toinclude other voices.
And, you know, that's just oneof the many things that could be
(01:00:19):
done is, you know, adequaterepresentation.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:22):
Right now, you all are here on the Kenai Peninsula.
You have an event at Main StreetTap and Grill tonight, which
this won't come out probablyuntil I think I forgot.
I don't even know where we're atright now.
End of April, probably end ofnext month.
when this episode comes out.
But where else is Samus Stategoing this summer?
(01:00:42):
Any events that you have plannedor places where you plan on
getting this message out?
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:48):
Yeah.
First off, I just want to thankMain Street for hosting us
tonight.
They are one of our severalbusinesses.
So currently we have nearly 50businesses that have signed on
to take action to stop trawlbycatch, and that's businesses
(01:01:09):
from across the state and evenfrom the lower 48.
So if you're a business ownerand you're listening, I would
encourage you to check out ourwebsite, salmonstate.org slash
bycatch, and join your businessas well.
And then to answer your questionabout where we're going to be
next, we don't have something onthe calendar quite yet.
(01:01:33):
However, we're in the process ofof planning out our summer
outreach.
So this will include variousdifferent events that will be
throughout the road system.
And there are events that arealready community organized.
So things like Salmon Fest andMermaid Fest and things like
(01:01:54):
that come to mind, farmersmarkets, things like that.
We'll be looking at those typesof events to host a table.
And then we'll also probably beworking with other business
partners to host something verysimilar to this Main Street
event.
The owner reached out to me aswe were planning our event back
(01:02:16):
in February at 49 State inAnchorage and basically wanted
to take that same message topeople the peninsula, which is
great, and I suspect that otherpeople will continue asking us
to do that, take a littleroadshow.
We've also talked about doing anonline webinar as well for the
(01:02:37):
folks that aren't connecting tothese communities but still want
to hear from the speakers.
We tend to work with businesspartners and people that are
impacted on a daily basis ontrial bycatch issue, and so we
want to make space for thesefolks.
Um, and so we're doing that and,um, you know, we'll be meeting
(01:03:01):
with the business community aswell, um, trying to invite them
in, um, to this work as well,because, um, you know, they
might have billions of dollarson their side, but, um, we
definitely have the people.
SPEAKER_03 (01:03:13):
Yeah, it's true.
Um, so if you're a businessowner and you're listening and
you want to get in touch withsalmon state, um, salmon
state.org, uh, O-R-G and reachout to them, um, And maybe you
can bring them to your business.
They're doing something here onthe peninsula, but they're
willing to get this message outto whoever's willing to listen.
(01:03:36):
It seems like it's an importantissue.
And how do people follow whatSalmon State is doing?
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:44):
Yeah, so we're on Instagram and Facebook.
We're also just starting on BlueSky, which is kind of a newer
platform.
We're also on LinkedIn andYouTube.
And then, of course, we'vementioned the website.
That's another way that, youknow, all of our different
(01:04:05):
petitions are going to be there.
But we'll be posting differentways to get involved on those
social media channels.
We also have a weekly newsletterthat goes out Saturday mornings.
We talk about a lot of thethings that Salmon State works
on, but there's oftentimes atrawl bycatch section that's
(01:04:27):
featured each week.
SPEAKER_03 (01:04:30):
Any final thoughts for the Alaskans listening?
Anything we didn't touch on oranything that you want to add
on?
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:38):
This is actually I wanted to include in the
beginning when we were definingSalmon State.
I just want to kind of put thisout there.
It's something that I starteddoing recently.
Cause people kind of questionwho we are and then we're this
outside entity, but essentiallythat, um, you know, salmon state
is a Alaska based organization.
Um, we have staff and AnchorageEagle river Homer.
(01:05:02):
Um, we also have staff inJuneau, um, Petersburg and
Haines.
Um, so we're kind of spread outand we're working, um, to ensure
that Alaska remains the salmonstate.
UNKNOWN (01:05:13):
So.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:14):
And, you know, just to add to Ryan's thoughts, you
know, I often think about, youknow, banning trawling in
Southeast and how that took likea decade.
And, you know, but it'swinnable, right?
So like you look at these, youknow, I wouldn't call them small
wins, but like very apparentprogression over time.
(01:05:37):
So it's like the more people whotake action, who get involved,
who voice their opinion, who,you you know, sign on their
business, who sign on to apetition, who testify before the
council, who contact, you know,it takes two minutes to email
your representative.
And so like when you show thatsupport for something that you
(01:05:57):
really care about, you move theneedle and things start to
change.
And, you know, it's a winnablefight and it's really
encouraging to see support andchanges to the system.
And that, You know, that's whatreally gets me excited is
engagement and, you know, thosewho represent us actually
(01:06:18):
listening and, you know,changing things.
So it's doable.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:26):
This is going to be a long fight, but we're here to
ensure that wild salmon and theother species that are affected
by trawl bycatch, you know, canhave a chance to rebound and the
people that depend on thosespecies are able to, um, you
know, harvest them to put themup, um, and to ensure that, um,
(01:06:51):
you know, culture, economics,small businesses in Alaska are,
um, protected into the future.
I
SPEAKER_03 (01:06:59):
agree.
And I, I'm hopeful.
I think this is, um, I thinkthis is a great cause.
This is something that comes upmore in conversation now and
just in my circle than I thinkever has before.
People are talking about this.
Every time I see any of ourelected officials put something
(01:07:20):
out on Facebook, it doesn't haveto be fishing related.
There are people in the commentssaying, what about banning
trawling?
They're out there and they'rediligent and they're doing great
work to basically just not staysilent about this.
And so you're right.
It only takes minutes to, to doa petition.
Um, that one that I mentionedearlier that I, I did for, um,
(01:07:43):
Senator Murkowski, it, it wasvery short and it was basically,
um, like two minutes of my day.
And that, you know, now I'm onthe radar.
I'm another person on the radarthat, that, uh, she knows or
her, um, her people know that,you know, trawling is an issue
that I, that I care about.
Um, banning trawling is an issuethat I care about.
(01:08:07):
So get online, salmonstate.org.
You said that there's actuallypetitions on the website.
Cool.
So yeah, start there if you wantto get your name out there and
show your support for whatSalmon State is doing and to
kick these trawlers out ofAlaska.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08:25):
So this is a shameless plug.
So In addition to taking actionand calling your
representatives, you know, we'vementioned that we're up against
a multibillion dollar industry.
Right.
And so I think that donating tograssroots organizations and
tribal organizations, not justSalmon State, we're not the only
organization that is involved inthis fight.
(01:08:48):
But I think that putting yourmoney behind these various
different organizations isimportant, whether that be$10 or
$100.
We need ways to get more peopleinvolved, and advertising takes
money.
And I also want to thank you forhosting us, because this is also
(01:09:10):
a way to get the message outthere.
SPEAKER_03 (01:09:12):
It's our...
I'd say responsibility.
Like you said, it's a longfight, but it's worth it.
And you should start now.
So, Jackie, thank you so muchfor coming down to the
peninsula.
Ryan, thank you.
And I hope, you know, peoplelearn something today and are
encouraged to take action andsee this change in a positive
(01:09:34):
way for Alaska.
UNKNOWN (01:09:37):
Thank you.
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