July 3, 2025 • 24 mins
In this Independence Day episode of The State of Energy, Tom Clark and Rand DeWitt unpack everything from rain-soaked propane showcases in New Mexico to billion-dollar federal grants for low-emission transit. They break down the push for a national propane reserve, the real state of propane supply, and how your community can tap into major funding for propane-powered buses.
U.S. Sen. Gary Peters, D-Michigan, was joined by Republican U.S. Sen. Steve Daines of Montana in introducing the Securing Our Propane Supply Act
The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) announces the opportunity to apply for $1.1 billion in competitive grants for the fiscal year (FY) 2025 Low or No Emission Grant Program (Low-No Program) under Federal Assistance Listing Number 20.526 and approximately $398 million in competitive grants for the FY 2025 Grants for Buses and Bus Facilities Program (Bus Program) under Federal Assistance Listing Number 20.526.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Welcome to the State of Energy.
I'm Randy Witt, along with a manwho may or may not have been
called to testify at the DiddyTrial, Tom Clark, Executive
Director of Rocky MountainPropane Association.
Are you going to share the gorydetails?
The Diddy?
The what?
The Diddy details?
(00:29):
No, it's crazy on how much, justhow much...
And TMZ is dedicated to this.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
What does P.
Diddy have to do with P.
Propane?
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
I don't know.
We're just trying to figure outif you were called to testify or
not.
And, you know, may or may not.
We're just going to go with it.
All right.
Well, you know, Diddy is a fanof petroleum products, just
different types.
Baby oil, right?
Yeah.
So, Tom.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
You okay?
I'm doing good.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
It's been a while.
It's
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
been a
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
while.
It's been like two weeks sincewe've...
I know.
You've been cruising all overthe country.
You were at D.C.
for propane days.
You were in New Mexico.
And now Independence Day seasonis here.
America's birthday is here.
What are you doing for 4th ofJuly?
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
You know, I'm going to go to the Huntsville 4th of
July shenanigans.
They do a little parade upthere.
That's where I grew up.
Nice.
It's nice to see friends andfamily.
SPEAKER_01 (01:32):
Well, I'm going to be here.
Tony, our director, has aworld-famous yearly pool party,
an awesome pool party, barbecue,and I guess the best way to put
it is an artillerydemonstration.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
That seems to be pretty popular.
You've got to launch as muchsmoke in the air and create as
much particulate matter and asmuch carcinogens as you possibly
can on the 4th of July.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
And you also have to use fireworks.
So let's run down, Tom.
Okay, first of all, you can findus online, thestateofenergy.com.
We're on Instagram, atthestateofenergy.
But if you do go to our website,thestateofenergy.com, you can
find out where to get propanenear you, check out past shows,
and rebates.
Rebates.
We're going to be talking aboutsome rebates today.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
You know, everybody that listens to our show, a
little bit of value instead ofjust humor.
So yeah, we definitely want wanteverybody to know what type of
financial incentives are outthere to continue or expand your
clean burning propane appliancesor vehicle or whatever it is
(02:42):
that you're going to use yourpropane for.
We're going to give you thedetails on the best incentives
out there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, we've got a story coming up shortly.
It's over a billion dollars ingrants, so stay tuned for that.
Now, let's run down what's beengoing on with Tom for the month
of June, now that we're movinginto July and summertime.
But you had a busy June.
You were in D.C.
for propane days.
SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
It was go, go, go.
Yeah, it's been busy.
SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
Was anybody there talking about the Secure Our
Propane Supply Act when you werein D.C.?
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
That never actually came up, but we talked a lot
about different different thingsgoing on.
The big one was the LIAP programor LIHEAP program, low-income
energy assistance for all yourutilities, electric, gas,
(03:37):
natural gas, propane.
So that's been interesting.
everybody from, from thoseprograms has been let go.
So there's no funding availablefor that.
And it's a, it's a big dealabout 5% of residents or 5% of
the population rely on some typeof federal assistance for your
(04:00):
heating and air conditioningbills.
So that's, it's a big deal, butit's expensive too.
It's a billions of dollars that,that get put into almost a,
almost a welfare program.
And so it, it tends to haveabuse.
And this, this administration isreally trying to clean up any,
any abuse and waste.
(04:21):
And, and, uh, that's one that'skind of sensitive.
That's being, uh, looked atgetting, getting the ax.
SPEAKER_01 (04:29):
Hmm.
Well, um, I bring up thenational strategic propane
reserve, um, or Supply Act,because I'm guessing you didn't
run into U.S.
Senator Gary Peters of Michigan.
It's only a hunch, but I don'tthink you were hanging out with
him.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
We didn't, but we did run into Senator Daines, who
was a co-sponsor of that, and weran into him in one of the
oddest places.
We had a group dinner, and wecouldn't get a meeting with him.
I emailed his offices and said,Hey, we're coming into town.
We'd love to talk to you aboutpropane.
(05:04):
And I just couldn't, I couldn'tseem to, uh, to get any type of
response from their office andour, our small group, it was,
uh, probably eight of us were atdinner and, uh, Here goes
Senator Daines into the cornerand eating dinner with somebody.
I think it was some staff.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
Daines was dining?
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Yeah, he was dining, and we were able to corner him
as he was leaving and talk aboutpropane just for a second.
But it was about five minuteslater, we get an email from his
staff that said, Hey, come onin.
We'd love to talk to you.
SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
Oh, OK, well, that's good.
Well, so folks know what we'retalking about here.
Taking a step back, we've allheard the National Strategic Oil
Reserve.
It's there to provide emergencystockpile of oil to protect us
from severe supply disruptionslike natural disasters,
conflicts or major supply chaininterruptions.
And now we're talking about U.S.
Senator Gary Peters, along withSenator Daines, are
(06:06):
reintroducing securing ourPropane Supply Act.
It was introduced in 2023, butdied in committee like all good
things do.
Now, Now, what's going on is thebill would have the Department
of Energy look into creating anational strategic propane
reserve.
Basically, a giant emergencystash of cozy.
You know, because we knowMichigan, it tops the nation in
(06:28):
propane use.
They've got over 300,000households depending on propane,
especially in the UpperPeninsula, where 18% of homes
heat with propane and 100% ofthe people are tougher than us.
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
What do you think that looks like?
A government-run...
propane facility
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
i don't know but i got a feeling you're going to be
running it it's only a hunch
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
i you know if you want to screw something up
really good wow give it to uhsome bureaucrats to to manage
this is this is um this is aterrible
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
idea so did you have this con so this was This was
not discussed with
SPEAKER_00 (07:10):
Senator Gaines.
I did not know that this...
So this news just came out justa couple days ago.
So this was not discussed whenwe were in D.C.
It wasn't anything on ouragenda.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
Wow.
All right.
Well, let's shift over to...
But let's talk about it,
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
though.
Let's continue this on.
So here's the thing.
There's...
and by the way, Californiaactually uses more, more propane
than Michigan, but really, uh,the, the propane supply in the
United States is it's producedin different ways, mostly
(07:52):
through natural gas gathering.
So the natural gas, uh, isproduced in, there's a few
States that produce the mostnatural gas, like Texas,
Wyoming, New Mexico, um, Montanaproduces a lot.
And then there's a lot that justgets pipelined to the points
where we need it, and then itwould be trucked to its final
(08:13):
destination.
So whenever somebody comes outand says there's a propane
shortage, it's usuallymisinformation or it's not
completely accurate because weactually produce three times
more the quantity that weconsume.
So if you look at the annualstatistics for how many gallons
(08:36):
of propane we sell each year,it's around 9 billion gallons.
But then we are also exportinganother 30 billion gallons to
other countries.
And we've talked about this alot.
There's emerging countries usepropane as as their fuel to get
(08:58):
them away from using wood anddung and all sorts of dirty
things.
It's true, right?
We've talked about it.
It is
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
true.
We just
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
haven't
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
mentioned dung in a
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
while.
We've talked about it a lot.
So what irritates me about thisis they call it, you know, they
almost make it sound likethere's a problem.
And the problem isn'tnecessarily...
that there's a shortage, butmaybe at a particular time,
(09:32):
there might be a weather-relatedissue um spike in in demand and
then a decrease in your abilityto get that product to where it
needs to be consumed
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
like in the carolinas when they were dealing
with all those storms andeverything that's when something
like that happens
SPEAKER_00 (09:50):
yeah like texas during the big freeze uh a few
years ago but you can't predictyou can't predict that and you
can't move once you build a bigstrategic supply point, you're
not going to be able to move itaround and say, oh, this year we
think it needs to be in Iowa orWisconsin or where these big
(10:13):
states that use a lot of propaneare.
Because in that area, in thatregion, maybe call it like the
Great Lakes region or whateveryou want to call it, near
Michigan and Illinois, they usearound 30% of all the propane in
the country.
So somebody's great idea ofputting putting a big strategic
reserve it sounds great on paperbut you still have the same
(10:39):
problem
SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
what about what about having multiple places
like multiple locations insteadof just one reserve we haven't
strategically placed reservesaround the country
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
yeah they call those propane companies okay
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
Thanks for narrowing that down for me.
(11:23):
So if you have a propanecompany, um, I'd take, for
example, there's a, there's abig one here in Utah, um, down
in Springville, they've got lotsof storage to support their
customers so that, that there's,um, a lot of storage to support
their customers.
Sometimes consumers need tothink beyond just the price of
(11:47):
the product.
This is a three-part thing here.
You've got some consumers youhave to educate about how to...
Prepare for the worst case aswell.
So you don't want to have toosmall of a tank at your house.
You want to make sure that youare also aware that this product
(12:11):
is delivered to you.
So if there's a problem with theweather or there's some type of
natural disaster, you want tomake sure that you're protected,
that you have enough storage towithstand those times.
The second part would be on thepropane companies.
(12:32):
side right you want to make sureyou're not overselling or over
committing and so sometimes thatseparates the good companies
from some of the the not so goodcompanies so you want to make
sure that you're you're dealingwith a supplier that that has or
a propane company that hasenough uh enough supply and and
are is aware of those challengesas well and then the third part
(12:57):
would be the rules andregulations that we have to
follow.
So sometimes the struggles are,which will definitely happen
with a strategic reserve aswell, because you can only put
so much product from a storagetank into a truck so fast.
(13:17):
There's limitations on howquickly you can put propane from
a storage tank to the truck andthen get the truck to the end
user.
These are the And all three ofthose need to work together to
make sure that you don't havesome type of situation because
we always hear about the badnews, but we never really hear
(13:39):
about the good news.
So whenever somebody, my guessis this, this Senator that's
sponsoring this, he probably hasa cabin somewhere out in the
middle of nowhere in Michiganand he probably ran out of
propane one day and somebodysaid, well, yeah, we don't, we
can't get any to you right nowbecause you procrastinated and
you waited too long.
(14:00):
So now he thinks he's going tohave some big federally funded
reserve bill.
So that would be my guess.
There's probably a little bit oftruth to that, but that's my
wild guess on that situation.
SPEAKER_01 (14:15):
Hold on, I've got an incoming call right now.
It's from Senator Daines.
I'm not going to take this.
You are listening to The Stateof Energy.
I'm Randy Witt, along with TomClark, Executive Director of
Rocky Mountain PropaneAssociation, the man with the
big brain.
Find out more about what propanecan do for you by going to
thestateofenergy.com.
And we're running down Tom'sterrific June as we head into
(14:39):
July and enjoy summertime andIndependence Day weekend.
And you were recently in NewMexico.
A lot going on there, includinga big, beautiful balloon fiesta.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
The big beautiful balloon fiesta.
Wow.
So this event, this was a greatevent.
It really was.
It started off with a propaneequipment showcase at the
Balloon Fiesta Park.
Unfortunately...
(15:11):
New Mexico hasn't seen rain for,or Albuquerque hasn't seen rain
for six months.
And the day that we show up, itdecided to just be an downright
poor.
I mean, it was just pouring.
There was rivers in the streets.
It was wild.
So we had all this equipment setup.
We had a balloon show up.
(15:33):
We had the school bus.
We had propane trucks.
We were making chicharrones withthe propane.
There was food trucks.
Did you just
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
say chicharonis?
Chicharonis.
So was Robert there?
SPEAKER_00 (15:45):
No, but one of the Mets guys was there.
It was going to be beautiful.
It was going to be great.
I'm sorry, I'm
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
still back on
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
chicharrones.
The
SPEAKER_01 (15:59):
chicharrones.
Is
SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
that how you say it?
I know, I
SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
know.
Did I say that
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
wrong?
No, you did.
No, you sounded...
You were right.
They used propane.
Oh, we also had a chili roaster.
And it wasn't even chili season,so they imported chilies to
roast for us.
Wow.
It was all set up.
We had a couple tents set upand...
The wind picked up and then thedark clouds came over and it
(16:27):
just dumped and dumped anddumped.
The balloon guy was...
I don't know if you've seen...
Setting up a balloon is kind ofa little production.
They got a bunch of people.
Did you go up?
No, they didn't even get theballoon.
Because I've done that before.
It's beautiful.
They didn't get the balloon outof the trailer.
It was just raining that bad.
(16:50):
So they finally...
They finally get all this stuff.
The sun comes out for a minute,and everybody's just scrambling
to get their stuff out of themud and the wet.
It was bad.
But we had a decent turnout ofpeople driving by.
It was great.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
You guys need an umbrella?
No?
Good, okay.
Well, I mean, so you at leastgot some stuff done.
Were you going to go up in theballoon or was that not
something you were
SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
going
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
to do?
UNKNOWN (17:24):
Uh...
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
After seeing the thing in South America, I
decided I wasn't going to go up
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
in the balloon.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Yeah, it's not that.
I think it was the same day youwere supposed to go down there I
sent you that story.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
But the reality is the balloon fiesta deal in
Albuquerque, it's a big event.
It lasts for, I think it's acouple weeks, but it brings 200
and...
$50 million of revenue toAlbuquerque.
That's
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
a lot for Albuquerque.
SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
It's a lot of money.
And you could not do this eventwithout propane.
There's no coal or electricburning balloons.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
So is New Mexico starting to see the light a
little bit?
Because they were going in adifferent direction for a while.
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
There's a lot of different...
policies out there that theydon't think the whole thing
through.
So if you try to place policyonto the people that say you
can't use a particular source ofenergy, that eliminates that
energy from a lot more thingsthan just what you thought you
(18:36):
were trying to do.
So there's other waysrepercussions that would, would
take place.
And that would, that would beone of them.
You would, um, if, if you onlyhad propane as a, as a novelty
fuel, uh, the balloon thing justwouldn't, wouldn't go.
And, and, and, and chiliroasting, you know how many
gallons of propane New Mexicoused to roast chilies?
(19:00):
Uh, just at that one day, justone.
It's a, it's a season.
So there's like a, I don't knowhow long the season goes for,
but a thousand.
UNKNOWN (19:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:08):
7 million gallons in New Mexico used...
7 million gallons.
Just to do the chili roastingseason.
Just for chili roasting.
Wow.
That's a lot.
It's a lot.
It's almost 10% of the state'stotal...
propane consumption is just forchili roasting.
(19:29):
How long does this go on for?
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Oh, I know a season
SPEAKER_00 (19:32):
is a couple of months.
Yeah, the season's a couple ofmonths.
And if you really wanted to pissoff a lot of New Mexicans, take
away their propane during chiliroasting season.
Yeah, in the chicharrones.
Yeah, then you would be in bigtrouble with no chicharrones and
no chilies.
(19:52):
What would you do?
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
Well, we do.
I want to make sure we give thisstory some good time here.
Shifting over to the FederalTransit Administration is
offering$1.5 billion in grantsfor fiscal year 2025 to support
cleaner, more efficient publictransportation.
This includes$1.1 billion forlow or no emission buses and$400
(20:14):
million for bus facilities andfleet improvements.
Local, state, and tribalgovernments can apply through
July 14th.
Now, there's a cap of$100million and$39 million per
project respectively.
And this is a great idea for anypotential applicant to examine
propane autogas as an option fortheir planned transit projects,
wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about the whole
entire electric bus and propanebus funding for months or for
years, actually.
And so if The problem with thisprogram is the time is running
up.
You have to have yourapplication in by...
(20:55):
The 14th.
The 14th?
The 14th.
So there's a lot of money.
There's a lot of money to goaround.
And it's kind of funny that theyoriginally thought that this
money would get scooped up byelectric buses.
But they're just not...
(21:16):
And so they've kind of changedthe rules a little bit.
Now they call it low or noemissions grant program.
And it's pretty simple.
There's a billion dollars.
for low or no uh emissions whichis propane is the low emissions
school bus and it's probably themost popular school bus uh way
(21:40):
pop way more popular than anelectric school bus but it's
it's open to all sorts it notjust a school bus but it could
be for um it Any type of capitalproject, it could be a lease, it
could be a purchase, it could beto restore or refurbish a bus,
(22:03):
and it can go to all sorts ofdifferent agencies.
It doesn't have to go to just aschool.
It could go to a contractor thatprovides transportation.
So there's lots of ways to...
There's lots of ways to use thismoney.
It can also go towards therefueling and the maintenance
facilities.
So there's tons of moneyavailable.
(22:24):
You just have to know the peoplethat need this money and we have
to get this information to them.
So if you're listening to thisshow and you know somebody that
does some type of publictransportation, whether it be a
school bus or any type oftransportation, in the public
(22:46):
sector, get them thisinformation.
Send them to our website and getyour application in before July
14th so you can get some fundingto help pay for some of these
propane-powered buses.
SPEAKER_01 (23:00):
Yeah, that's at thestateofenergy.com.
Once again, just go tothestateofenergy.com.
Act now.
I mean,$1.5 billion in grants isa lot, and the window's closing
very fast, very fast.
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
We had one of these school buses at the Bloom Fiesta
Park, that Tillery school bus.
They're like a Bluebird dealer.
They brought this bus down.
We were going to have aspokesperson from the school
bus— Let's see.
(23:32):
It was near the Santa Fe area.
They were going to come down andtalk about their propane-powered
plants.
buses and how much money theysave.
Because when you're talkingabout the price difference
between not only is the buscheaper, but you also are saving
a ton of money on the fuel.
And the maintenance.
So if you want to save yourcommunity a ton of money on
(23:56):
fuel, on maintenance, and on abus that actually works, as
we've seen in Zions NationalPark, those buses have been
running for 25, 26 years.
They work and
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
they're cheap to use.
Those e-buses are not doing wellthere, by the way.
People say they're too small.
They constantly have to keepgetting recharged.
People are not happy.
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Propane buses is where it's at.
There's money.
to be had and it's not going tolast very long.
So get your community involvedand get them some of this
federal money for any of thesebuses or the bus facilities.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
There you go, Tom.
We have to wish America a veryhappy birthday as we get into
4th of July weekend.
Wish everybody a very safe andhappy 4th of July weekend.
SPEAKER_00 (24:44):
Yes, sir.
Happy birthday, America.
SPEAKER_01 (24:47):
That is Tom Clark, executive director of Rocky
Mountain Propane Association.
My name is Randy Witt, and weare always online at
thestateofenergy.com.
Welcome to the State of Energy.
I'm Randy Witt, along with a manwho may or may not have been
called to testify at the DiddyTrial, Tom Clark, Executive
Director of Rocky MountainPropane Association.
Are you going to share the gorydetails?
The Diddy?
The what?
The Diddy details?
(00:29):
No, it's crazy on how much, justhow much...
And TMZ is dedicated to this.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
What does P.
Diddy have to do with P.
Propane?
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
I don't know.
We're just trying to figure outif you were called to testify or
not.
And, you know, may or may not.
We're just going to go with it.
All right.
Well, you know, Diddy is a fanof petroleum products, just
different types.
Baby oil, right?
Yeah.
So, Tom.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
You okay?
I'm doing good.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
It's been a while.
It's
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
been a
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
while.
It's been like two weeks sincewe've...
I know.
You've been cruising all overthe country.
You were at D.C.
for propane days.
You were in New Mexico.
And now Independence Day seasonis here.
America's birthday is here.
What are you doing for 4th ofJuly?
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
You know, I'm going to go to the Huntsville 4th of
July shenanigans.
They do a little parade upthere.
That's where I grew up.
Nice.
It's nice to see friends andfamily.
SPEAKER_01 (01:32):
Well, I'm going to be here.
Tony, our director, has aworld-famous yearly pool party,
an awesome pool party, barbecue,and I guess the best way to put
it is an artillerydemonstration.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
That seems to be pretty popular.
You've got to launch as muchsmoke in the air and create as
much particulate matter and asmuch carcinogens as you possibly
can on the 4th of July.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
And you also have to use fireworks.
So let's run down, Tom.
Okay, first of all, you can findus online, thestateofenergy.com.
We're on Instagram, atthestateofenergy.
But if you do go to our website,thestateofenergy.com, you can
find out where to get propanenear you, check out past shows,
and rebates.
Rebates.
We're going to be talking aboutsome rebates today.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
You know, everybody that listens to our show, a
little bit of value instead ofjust humor.
So yeah, we definitely want wanteverybody to know what type of
financial incentives are outthere to continue or expand your
clean burning propane appliancesor vehicle or whatever it is
(02:42):
that you're going to use yourpropane for.
We're going to give you thedetails on the best incentives
out there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, we've got a story coming up shortly.
It's over a billion dollars ingrants, so stay tuned for that.
Now, let's run down what's beengoing on with Tom for the month
of June, now that we're movinginto July and summertime.
But you had a busy June.
You were in D.C.
for propane days.
SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
It was go, go, go.
Yeah, it's been busy.
SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
Was anybody there talking about the Secure Our
Propane Supply Act when you werein D.C.?
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
That never actually came up, but we talked a lot
about different different thingsgoing on.
The big one was the LIAP programor LIHEAP program, low-income
energy assistance for all yourutilities, electric, gas,
(03:37):
natural gas, propane.
So that's been interesting.
everybody from, from thoseprograms has been let go.
So there's no funding availablefor that.
And it's a, it's a big dealabout 5% of residents or 5% of
the population rely on some typeof federal assistance for your
(04:00):
heating and air conditioningbills.
So that's, it's a big deal, butit's expensive too.
It's a billions of dollars that,that get put into almost a,
almost a welfare program.
And so it, it tends to haveabuse.
And this, this administration isreally trying to clean up any,
any abuse and waste.
(04:21):
And, and, uh, that's one that'skind of sensitive.
That's being, uh, looked atgetting, getting the ax.
SPEAKER_01 (04:29):
Hmm.
Well, um, I bring up thenational strategic propane
reserve, um, or Supply Act,because I'm guessing you didn't
run into U.S.
Senator Gary Peters of Michigan.
It's only a hunch, but I don'tthink you were hanging out with
him.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
We didn't, but we did run into Senator Daines, who
was a co-sponsor of that, and weran into him in one of the
oddest places.
We had a group dinner, and wecouldn't get a meeting with him.
I emailed his offices and said,Hey, we're coming into town.
We'd love to talk to you aboutpropane.
(05:04):
And I just couldn't, I couldn'tseem to, uh, to get any type of
response from their office andour, our small group, it was,
uh, probably eight of us were atdinner and, uh, Here goes
Senator Daines into the cornerand eating dinner with somebody.
I think it was some staff.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
Daines was dining?
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Yeah, he was dining, and we were able to corner him
as he was leaving and talk aboutpropane just for a second.
But it was about five minuteslater, we get an email from his
staff that said, Hey, come onin.
We'd love to talk to you.
SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
Oh, OK, well, that's good.
Well, so folks know what we'retalking about here.
Taking a step back, we've allheard the National Strategic Oil
Reserve.
It's there to provide emergencystockpile of oil to protect us
from severe supply disruptionslike natural disasters,
conflicts or major supply chaininterruptions.
And now we're talking about U.S.
Senator Gary Peters, along withSenator Daines, are
(06:06):
reintroducing securing ourPropane Supply Act.
It was introduced in 2023, butdied in committee like all good
things do.
Now, Now, what's going on is thebill would have the Department
of Energy look into creating anational strategic propane
reserve.
Basically, a giant emergencystash of cozy.
You know, because we knowMichigan, it tops the nation in
(06:28):
propane use.
They've got over 300,000households depending on propane,
especially in the UpperPeninsula, where 18% of homes
heat with propane and 100% ofthe people are tougher than us.
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
What do you think that looks like?
A government-run...
propane facility
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
i don't know but i got a feeling you're going to be
running it it's only a hunch
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
i you know if you want to screw something up
really good wow give it to uhsome bureaucrats to to manage
this is this is um this is aterrible
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
idea so did you have this con so this was This was
not discussed with
SPEAKER_00 (07:10):
Senator Gaines.
I did not know that this...
So this news just came out justa couple days ago.
So this was not discussed whenwe were in D.C.
It wasn't anything on ouragenda.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
Wow.
All right.
Well, let's shift over to...
But let's talk about it,
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
though.
Let's continue this on.
So here's the thing.
There's...
and by the way, Californiaactually uses more, more propane
than Michigan, but really, uh,the, the propane supply in the
United States is it's producedin different ways, mostly
(07:52):
through natural gas gathering.
So the natural gas, uh, isproduced in, there's a few
States that produce the mostnatural gas, like Texas,
Wyoming, New Mexico, um, Montanaproduces a lot.
And then there's a lot that justgets pipelined to the points
where we need it, and then itwould be trucked to its final
(08:13):
destination.
So whenever somebody comes outand says there's a propane
shortage, it's usuallymisinformation or it's not
completely accurate because weactually produce three times
more the quantity that weconsume.
So if you look at the annualstatistics for how many gallons
(08:36):
of propane we sell each year,it's around 9 billion gallons.
But then we are also exportinganother 30 billion gallons to
other countries.
And we've talked about this alot.
There's emerging countries usepropane as as their fuel to get
(08:58):
them away from using wood anddung and all sorts of dirty
things.
It's true, right?
We've talked about it.
It is
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
true.
We just
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
haven't
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
mentioned dung in a
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
while.
We've talked about it a lot.
So what irritates me about thisis they call it, you know, they
almost make it sound likethere's a problem.
And the problem isn'tnecessarily...
that there's a shortage, butmaybe at a particular time,
(09:32):
there might be a weather-relatedissue um spike in in demand and
then a decrease in your abilityto get that product to where it
needs to be consumed
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
like in the carolinas when they were dealing
with all those storms andeverything that's when something
like that happens
SPEAKER_00 (09:50):
yeah like texas during the big freeze uh a few
years ago but you can't predictyou can't predict that and you
can't move once you build a bigstrategic supply point, you're
not going to be able to move itaround and say, oh, this year we
think it needs to be in Iowa orWisconsin or where these big
(10:13):
states that use a lot of propaneare.
Because in that area, in thatregion, maybe call it like the
Great Lakes region or whateveryou want to call it, near
Michigan and Illinois, they usearound 30% of all the propane in
the country.
So somebody's great idea ofputting putting a big strategic
reserve it sounds great on paperbut you still have the same
(10:39):
problem
SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
what about what about having multiple places
like multiple locations insteadof just one reserve we haven't
strategically placed reservesaround the country
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
yeah they call those propane companies okay
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
Thanks for narrowing that down for me.
(11:23):
So if you have a propanecompany, um, I'd take, for
example, there's a, there's abig one here in Utah, um, down
in Springville, they've got lotsof storage to support their
customers so that, that there's,um, a lot of storage to support
their customers.
Sometimes consumers need tothink beyond just the price of
(11:47):
the product.
This is a three-part thing here.
You've got some consumers youhave to educate about how to...
Prepare for the worst case aswell.
So you don't want to have toosmall of a tank at your house.
You want to make sure that youare also aware that this product
(12:11):
is delivered to you.
So if there's a problem with theweather or there's some type of
natural disaster, you want tomake sure that you're protected,
that you have enough storage towithstand those times.
The second part would be on thepropane companies.
(12:32):
side right you want to make sureyou're not overselling or over
committing and so sometimes thatseparates the good companies
from some of the the not so goodcompanies so you want to make
sure that you're you're dealingwith a supplier that that has or
a propane company that hasenough uh enough supply and and
are is aware of those challengesas well and then the third part
(12:57):
would be the rules andregulations that we have to
follow.
So sometimes the struggles are,which will definitely happen
with a strategic reserve aswell, because you can only put
so much product from a storagetank into a truck so fast.
(13:17):
There's limitations on howquickly you can put propane from
a storage tank to the truck andthen get the truck to the end
user.
These are the And all three ofthose need to work together to
make sure that you don't havesome type of situation because
we always hear about the badnews, but we never really hear
(13:39):
about the good news.
So whenever somebody, my guessis this, this Senator that's
sponsoring this, he probably hasa cabin somewhere out in the
middle of nowhere in Michiganand he probably ran out of
propane one day and somebodysaid, well, yeah, we don't, we
can't get any to you right nowbecause you procrastinated and
you waited too long.
(14:00):
So now he thinks he's going tohave some big federally funded
reserve bill.
So that would be my guess.
There's probably a little bit oftruth to that, but that's my
wild guess on that situation.
SPEAKER_01 (14:15):
Hold on, I've got an incoming call right now.
It's from Senator Daines.
I'm not going to take this.
You are listening to The Stateof Energy.
I'm Randy Witt, along with TomClark, Executive Director of
Rocky Mountain PropaneAssociation, the man with the
big brain.
Find out more about what propanecan do for you by going to
thestateofenergy.com.
And we're running down Tom'sterrific June as we head into
(14:39):
July and enjoy summertime andIndependence Day weekend.
And you were recently in NewMexico.
A lot going on there, includinga big, beautiful balloon fiesta.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
The big beautiful balloon fiesta.
Wow.
So this event, this was a greatevent.
It really was.
It started off with a propaneequipment showcase at the
Balloon Fiesta Park.
Unfortunately...
(15:11):
New Mexico hasn't seen rain for,or Albuquerque hasn't seen rain
for six months.
And the day that we show up, itdecided to just be an downright
poor.
I mean, it was just pouring.
There was rivers in the streets.
It was wild.
So we had all this equipment setup.
We had a balloon show up.
(15:33):
We had the school bus.
We had propane trucks.
We were making chicharrones withthe propane.
There was food trucks.
Did you just
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
say chicharonis?
Chicharonis.
So was Robert there?
SPEAKER_00 (15:45):
No, but one of the Mets guys was there.
It was going to be beautiful.
It was going to be great.
I'm sorry, I'm
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
still back on
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
chicharrones.
The
SPEAKER_01 (15:59):
chicharrones.
Is
SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
that how you say it?
I know, I
SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
know.
Did I say that
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
wrong?
No, you did.
No, you sounded...
You were right.
They used propane.
Oh, we also had a chili roaster.
And it wasn't even chili season,so they imported chilies to
roast for us.
Wow.
It was all set up.
We had a couple tents set upand...
The wind picked up and then thedark clouds came over and it
(16:27):
just dumped and dumped anddumped.
The balloon guy was...
I don't know if you've seen...
Setting up a balloon is kind ofa little production.
They got a bunch of people.
Did you go up?
No, they didn't even get theballoon.
Because I've done that before.
It's beautiful.
They didn't get the balloon outof the trailer.
It was just raining that bad.
(16:50):
So they finally...
They finally get all this stuff.
The sun comes out for a minute,and everybody's just scrambling
to get their stuff out of themud and the wet.
It was bad.
But we had a decent turnout ofpeople driving by.
It was great.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
You guys need an umbrella?
No?
Good, okay.
Well, I mean, so you at leastgot some stuff done.
Were you going to go up in theballoon or was that not
something you were
SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
going
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
to do?
UNKNOWN (17:24):
Uh...
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
After seeing the thing in South America, I
decided I wasn't going to go up
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
in the balloon.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Yeah, it's not that.
I think it was the same day youwere supposed to go down there I
sent you that story.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
But the reality is the balloon fiesta deal in
Albuquerque, it's a big event.
It lasts for, I think it's acouple weeks, but it brings 200
and...
$50 million of revenue toAlbuquerque.
That's
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
a lot for Albuquerque.
SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
It's a lot of money.
And you could not do this eventwithout propane.
There's no coal or electricburning balloons.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
So is New Mexico starting to see the light a
little bit?
Because they were going in adifferent direction for a while.
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
There's a lot of different...
policies out there that theydon't think the whole thing
through.
So if you try to place policyonto the people that say you
can't use a particular source ofenergy, that eliminates that
energy from a lot more thingsthan just what you thought you
(18:36):
were trying to do.
So there's other waysrepercussions that would, would
take place.
And that would, that would beone of them.
You would, um, if, if you onlyhad propane as a, as a novelty
fuel, uh, the balloon thing justwouldn't, wouldn't go.
And, and, and, and chiliroasting, you know how many
gallons of propane New Mexicoused to roast chilies?
(19:00):
Uh, just at that one day, justone.
It's a, it's a season.
So there's like a, I don't knowhow long the season goes for,
but a thousand.
UNKNOWN (19:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:08):
7 million gallons in New Mexico used...
7 million gallons.
Just to do the chili roastingseason.
Just for chili roasting.
Wow.
That's a lot.
It's a lot.
It's almost 10% of the state'stotal...
propane consumption is just forchili roasting.
(19:29):
How long does this go on for?
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Oh, I know a season
SPEAKER_00 (19:32):
is a couple of months.
Yeah, the season's a couple ofmonths.
And if you really wanted to pissoff a lot of New Mexicans, take
away their propane during chiliroasting season.
Yeah, in the chicharrones.
Yeah, then you would be in bigtrouble with no chicharrones and
no chilies.
(19:52):
What would you do?
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
Well, we do.
I want to make sure we give thisstory some good time here.
Shifting over to the FederalTransit Administration is
offering$1.5 billion in grantsfor fiscal year 2025 to support
cleaner, more efficient publictransportation.
This includes$1.1 billion forlow or no emission buses and$400
(20:14):
million for bus facilities andfleet improvements.
Local, state, and tribalgovernments can apply through
July 14th.
Now, there's a cap of$100million and$39 million per
project respectively.
And this is a great idea for anypotential applicant to examine
propane autogas as an option fortheir planned transit projects,
wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about the whole
entire electric bus and propanebus funding for months or for
years, actually.
And so if The problem with thisprogram is the time is running
up.
You have to have yourapplication in by...
(20:55):
The 14th.
The 14th?
The 14th.
So there's a lot of money.
There's a lot of money to goaround.
And it's kind of funny that theyoriginally thought that this
money would get scooped up byelectric buses.
But they're just not...
(21:16):
And so they've kind of changedthe rules a little bit.
Now they call it low or noemissions grant program.
And it's pretty simple.
There's a billion dollars.
for low or no uh emissions whichis propane is the low emissions
school bus and it's probably themost popular school bus uh way
(21:40):
pop way more popular than anelectric school bus but it's
it's open to all sorts it notjust a school bus but it could
be for um it Any type of capitalproject, it could be a lease, it
could be a purchase, it could beto restore or refurbish a bus,
(22:03):
and it can go to all sorts ofdifferent agencies.
It doesn't have to go to just aschool.
It could go to a contractor thatprovides transportation.
So there's lots of ways to...
There's lots of ways to use thismoney.
It can also go towards therefueling and the maintenance
facilities.
So there's tons of moneyavailable.
(22:24):
You just have to know the peoplethat need this money and we have
to get this information to them.
So if you're listening to thisshow and you know somebody that
does some type of publictransportation, whether it be a
school bus or any type oftransportation, in the public
(22:46):
sector, get them thisinformation.
Send them to our website and getyour application in before July
14th so you can get some fundingto help pay for some of these
propane-powered buses.
SPEAKER_01 (23:00):
Yeah, that's at thestateofenergy.com.
Once again, just go tothestateofenergy.com.
Act now.
I mean,$1.5 billion in grants isa lot, and the window's closing
very fast, very fast.
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
We had one of these school buses at the Bloom Fiesta
Park, that Tillery school bus.
They're like a Bluebird dealer.
They brought this bus down.
We were going to have aspokesperson from the school
bus— Let's see.
(23:32):
It was near the Santa Fe area.
They were going to come down andtalk about their propane-powered
plants.
buses and how much money theysave.
Because when you're talkingabout the price difference
between not only is the buscheaper, but you also are saving
a ton of money on the fuel.
And the maintenance.
So if you want to save yourcommunity a ton of money on
(23:56):
fuel, on maintenance, and on abus that actually works, as
we've seen in Zions NationalPark, those buses have been
running for 25, 26 years.
They work and
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
they're cheap to use.
Those e-buses are not doing wellthere, by the way.
People say they're too small.
They constantly have to keepgetting recharged.
People are not happy.
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Propane buses is where it's at.
There's money.
to be had and it's not going tolast very long.
So get your community involvedand get them some of this
federal money for any of thesebuses or the bus facilities.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
There you go, Tom.
We have to wish America a veryhappy birthday as we get into
4th of July weekend.
Wish everybody a very safe andhappy 4th of July weekend.
SPEAKER_00 (24:44):
Yes, sir.
Happy birthday, America.
SPEAKER_01 (24:47):
That is Tom Clark, executive director of Rocky
Mountain Propane Association.
My name is Randy Witt, and weare always online at
thestateofenergy.com.
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