20% Discount On Thorne Supplements

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Stephen
McCain podcast, where I bringyou people making world-class
decisions in the field of humanoptimization and performance.
This week's guest is DavePascoe.
He is right up at the top onthe rejuvenation Olympics
leaderboard.
What that means is he isslowing down his rate of aging

(00:21):
and in this podcast we discussall the ways in which he's doing
that, and you'd be surprised.
A lot of these are justfundamentally simple habits that
he continues to do, which, inthis world where we're all
looking for a magic bullet, itis a nice reminder that sleep
and diet and exercise andgratitude really can have an

(00:44):
impact on our rate of aging.
And this guy's 62 years old.
I've met him in person.
He's in great shape, he looksphenomenal.
So let's dig in and let'sreally learn from this guy.
I hope you enjoy the podcast.
Let's do this.
Dave Pascoe, welcome to theStephen McCain podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hey, stephen, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
It's my pleasure.
We met at the Club ExoZonerecently in Vegas and I knew
about you.
I was fascinated by yourapproach and we're very similar
in terms of a lot of us that aregoing after this health thing.
I don't know how you reallywant to define it.
Maybe we'll do that on thispodcast, but it was really cool

(01:26):
meeting you and, just soeveryone knows, you were in
really great shape and we'regoing to talk about your
exercise routine, but did you?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
notice anything from the exosomes.
Yeah, actually I was surprisedbecause I've been having trouble
sleeping on this shoulder.
I mean, this is the shoulderthat I got the injection in, so
I was having rotator cuff issues.
But that night I was able tosleep on my side just fine.
I never expected anything thatquick.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Wow, yeah that was impressive.
Yeah, and just so that everyoneknows, club exosome is a joint
venture between me and Dr SandraKaufman and we just trying to
democratize access to some ofthese really cool modalities and
we have a lot of fun with it.
It's pretty casual.
We do it quarterly in Vegas andyou know, yeah, it was really.

(02:15):
The conversations arephenomenal and I look at it as a
networking event.
And here we are.
I met you there, you came outto it and you're on the podcast
and just a bunch of really coollike-minded people.
And I've been using Exums forabout a year and a half pretty
consistently.
I do them quarterly and I tellyou I had a shoulder issue from

(02:36):
COVID using that X3 bar.
I wasn't fully warmed up andI'm like it's just something.
It's not.
You know it's not right.
And after about threetreatments of a pretty low dose
it fixed, it, forgot which sideit was, and so those things are
amazing.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I ended up screwing up my shoulder again shortly
afterwards because I was feelingso great that when I came home
I have a pair of Olympic ringsin my backyard.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
And.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Tony Horton.
I'm a big fan of his.
I still do his P90X workoutsand I watched something that he
did on Instagram where he wasdoing this really cool flip
thing.
So I thought you know what, I'mgoing to give that a try.
Yeah well, I should have warmedup a little bit first.
I also should have given this afew more weeks to heal up, but
uh, yeah, I did some of theflips with it.

(03:29):
I felt like, oh, this pull.
So now I'm a little sore here,but yeah, it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, I always tell people I have a lot of friends
that are into fitness and andlike, oh, rings, you've got to
show me stuff on rings.
And I said, listen, treadlightly.
That is the easiest way to jackyour shoulders like 100%.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Trust me, those things are dangerous.
They are amazing.
Yeah, you could have talked meout of doing that.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, maybe I should do like a little ring routine,
small course or something how tosafely navigate rings.
I would definitely watch that.
Okay, well, we'll put it on thelist.
But look, you're an interestingguy.
Right now you are a head ofBrian Johnson, who's gotten a
lot of press in the RejuvenationOlympics, which is essentially

(04:19):
a leaderboard for people thatare doing this.
Methylation, biological agetests, and whoever is aging at
the slowest rate is highest onthe leaderboard, and you're
number six, which is probably.
You must be getting a lot ofattention for this, I imagine
surprisingly so.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, I didn't expect the amount of attention that I
would get from that, because I'mjust just me living my life.
You know, I didn't think thatwas a big deal until people were
like but you're beating abillionaire who's spending $2
million a year.
That that's something.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, okay, I guess that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
It's noteworthy, say the least.
I mean, you look at everythingyou're doing on your website and
it's, it's, it's an impressivearray of of.
You know it's a discipline, butthere must be some genesis to
all this.
What happened?
Did you have a moment?
Did you have a dark moment?
Did you have something thatreally spurred this, or are you
just always this way?

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
I've kind of always been this way, but it's been an
iteration over time where I justkeep adding and adding and
adding.
I was always a weird kid.
I used to really look into howadults around me behaved, like.
What made them successful inanything, whether it's finances,

(05:43):
relationships, successful rightIn anything, whether it's
finances, relationships, healthand wellness, what, what is it?
Why do some people do reallygreat at some things and other
people just seem to suck at it?
And so I could get off on awhole tangent about my parents
going up with my father, butthat I don't.
I don't know if I really wantto go there.

(06:05):
I've done it on a few otherpodcasts, so if people hear
multiple podcasts, they'll besick of hearing that.
Yeah, so as far as health andwellness went, I could see some
people were very wealthy whileother people struggled a little
bit more.
My family wasn't real well off,but I didn't know any better
because that's the way myneighborhood was, that's the way

(06:26):
all my friends were.
But I would see couples.
I would see couples that gotalong like best friends and
others that fought like cats anddogs, and I wanted to know what
was it about theserelationships that made them
work the way they were or notwork the way they were.
So the same with health andfitness.
I noticed that people that didcertain habits always had great

(06:47):
success, and people who didn'tdo those habits or had other
worse bad habits always seem toget the same results too.
So I noticed that people wouldget really, really old looking
if they drank a lot and smoked alot.
And that was sort of anexperiment that I did going
through high school, where Iwatched friends who I knew were

(07:07):
really hard partiers because Ihad the strongest suspicion that
they weren't going to look sogood later on in life.
And, sad to say, that's so true.
Some of these friends that Igraduated with.
I look at them and I go, oh mygosh, these people are so old.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
I can't identify with them anymore.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
They're of a whole different generation than me.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, it sounds like you've had a high level of
curiosity and perspective onjust looking at them.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
You did have a what I did have, a scare.
I mean, everybody seems to havesome sort of health scare.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
That's what I'm looking for.
What was?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
the scare.
Mine was minimal, I mean,compared to a lot of folks,
because I always tried to eatright.
You know, based on whatever theyou know the understanding of
what eating right was of the day, I can't say I always did that.
I mean, growing up as a kid Iate a lot of sugar and crap, but
I can't say I always did that.
I mean, growing up as a kid Iate a lot of sugar and crap, but

(08:09):
all right, I've lost my trainof thought.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
I hate when that happens.
You were going to talk aboutyour scare, your scare.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, thank you.
All right, so it was about thetime I was turning 50.
I was training for my firstmarathon, I was doing P90X, I
was taking care of both of myparents who were down pretty
hard with cancer at the sametime, and I just thought I was
Joe Cool, I thought I was just.
I had it all together.

(08:34):
It was Mr Fitness, I was ingreat shape.
I mean, here I was at 50, muchbetter, healthier, stronger,
faster than I ever was in my 30s, and looking better, healthier,
stronger, faster than I everwas in my 30s, and looking
better, all because of changingin my lifestyle diet, exercise.
But then I heard, or read, Ican't remember which, about a

(08:55):
test for telomeres.
Now, telomeres being those like.
Imagine them as the little endcaps on the end of your
shoelaces that keep your shoefrom unraveling.
They're the markers on DNA.
I mean, I know, know, you knowthis.
I'm just saying this forwhoever might be listening.
Yeah, um, it's.
They're kind of like aseparator between uh, snips of
dna, separate genes, and I'mprobably butchering that

(09:19):
explanation, but anyway, um, theidea is that as time goes by
and cells replicate, thesetelomeres tend to get shorter,
and the shorter they get,basically the older biologically
you are.
And so I thought, yeah, I'll goget this test, let's see how
I'm doing.
I'm sure it's going to comeback and say I've got the

(09:40):
telomeres of a 20-year-old,right?
No, it was completely theopposite.
It told me I had the telomeresof a 68 year old, right?
No, it was completely theopposite.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
It told me I had the telomeres of a 68 year old at
age 50.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
And I thought, whoa, uh, yeah, that's, that's not
good.
I'm obviously missing somethingreally huge here.
What is it?
Thankfully, the company thatthat offered it?
Well, they're not aroundanymore, but they offered a
consultation along with the test.
And so I got on the phone withtheir staff physician and the

(10:13):
very first thing he startedasking me was things about my
lifestyle.
Really, at the time it wasn'tvery well known that lifestyle
could trump genetics or thatlifestyle really even mattered.
Well, I guess if it was known,it wasn't known by me, let's put
it that way.
So I just thought these werereally strange questions that he
was asking me.
But through the course of theconversation, I mean I'm

(10:33):
explaining that, yeah, I'm asole caretaker for both of my
parents who have cancer.
Doing the P90X which I thoughtwas excellent, doing marathon
training.
I've got an incrediblystressful job.
And the guy stops me rightthere and says well, okay, he
says we have seen this inendurance athletes having much
shorter telomeres because of thestress that they put themselves

(10:55):
under.
We've also seen it incaretakers.
We've seen it in people whohave incredibly stressful jobs
for a living.
And you've got the trifectayou're, you're basically, you're
killing yourself with stress.
yeah, and that was a hugeeye-opener for me and so they
suggested things like you know,yoga, meditation, and I'm

(11:16):
thinking, oh my gosh, yeah, Iused to do yoga and meditation.
How did I ever forget aboutthose?
I guess just through the courseof life and everything that was
happening.
Those things got pushed intothe background Totally forgot
about them so.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
I had to pull those back out of my back pocket and
start again.
Yeah, the fear of God can be apowerful motivation.
I have found that most peoplewho are really dialed in in this
industry or have reallycommitted to it, they had a
moment, some moment that reallywas a light for them, basically

(12:00):
where they were confronted withtheir mortality, their life, and
so thank you for sharing thatstory.
And what's interesting aboutyours is you have cancer in your
family lineage, and shorteningof telomeres is a cancer risk,
right, because now these DNA areleft to mutate, because there's
no end of the cap, like theshoelace cap at the end of them.

(12:23):
And so what have you done foryour telomeres?
I'm sure you've had them testedand I'm sure you've activated
some telomerase.
You've probably done someepitalon, some TA65.
You've lowered your stresslevels.
You've probably done quite afew things.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, tam818.
Yeah, I mean, at the time I wassearching everywhere, there
really wasn't anything available.
It took quite a while forthings to become available that
could increase telomeres withtelomerase.
I don't think that was evenknown back in what was that?
2012.

(12:57):
I think it was a few yearslater that it became widely
known through cancer researchthat they saw that cancer cells
produced their own telomerase,and so I was like, wow, cool.
So as soon as products becameavailable, I started taking
those.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Have you considered I know it's really expensive but
Liz Parrish's telomerase genetherapy at all?

Speaker 2 (13:20):
No, no, I'm not even familiar with it.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, so I always my first podcast guest, paul Tozer
I always say this almost becausehe's jumped on the bandwagon to
a lot of these things but it'sbasically a gene therapy where
it just makes your body producetelomerase which will increase
your telomeres, and he's had itdone.
It's very expensive.
That's the only problem.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
For now.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
For now it's very expensive and I'm sure it will
come down in price over time.
But that's maybe the holy grailof telomerase telomere
treatment.
It's interesting that thatstuff is is out there.
But look, it's not about doingthe most expensive treatment.
I mean there's lots ofbehavioral modifications you can
do, like limiting your stress.

(14:05):
I mean the goal isn't to live astressful life and then find
some sort of magic bullet that'sgoing to just fix it right.
I mean the goal is to try to dothings in the most holistic,
organic, simple way and then, ifyou're really still in a state
of emergence, add some of thesehigh-level hacks or whatever you
want to call them, to move theneedle on this issue.

(14:29):
But it's very interesting thatyou had that experience and it's
on par with a lot of my guestsand stuff.
I'm always curious like what isit?
What happened to this person?

Speaker 2 (14:45):
what is it?
What happened to this person?
You know, and I've always beenamazed, that people have to wait
to become a cancer patient tostart doing the interventions
that you would do as a cancerpatient.
I'm like why wouldn't we starteating healthy beforehand?
Why do we just clean up ourdiet, you know, in result of a
diagnosis?

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Why not?
preventative yeah, I completelyagree.
I have my own longevityframework, um, optimal frame.
I could still kind of to figureout what what the name is for.
But the very first thing, whichI consider the longevity part
of it, is managing yourbottlenecks, and so that refers
to something in your geneticlineage.

(15:24):
You should know this.
What did your ancestors diefrom?
What is your blood markers?
What is your DNA testing?
It's all pointing that you havea propensity for a specific
disease, usually one of the fourbig killers.
Right, for me, it's heartdisease.
So my first step in my entireprotocol is disease mitigation.

(15:47):
I have to have a plan.
There is no law.
All longevity means is theabsence of disease to me.
Right, I mean, yeah, not dyingin a car crash or falling and
breaking your hip, but it really, at the end of the day, you,
the whole Blue Zones,documentary, all that stuff
these are just people that don'tget disease, you know.
And so for you I imagine youpotentially have this cancer in

(16:11):
your family Are you doing anysort of advanced screening for
that?
Because it seems like cancer isall about early detection and
screening, advanced screeningfor that Because it seems like
cancer is all about earlydetection and screening.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, got all kinds of things in my family.
Gosh, my dad had COPD.
He was borderline diabetic,which I mean when they say
borderline.
If you're borderline, you'rebasically diabetic.
I mean I don't think therereally is any borderline.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
You're there, you just need to start doing
something about it.
The only reason why they sayborderline is because you need
to cross the threshold for theinsurance company to allow you
to actually use your insuranceto pay for it.
So they're like no, you don'thave it yet, you don't have it
yet.
Now you have diabetes.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Now you can get some medication that teeter-totter
tip and now you're reallyscrewed, okay, absurd, yeah,
yeah yeah so I mean I, I had allmy.
I've had my genetics run umseveral different times, but
then I finally did my entiregenome and I I guess I wasn't
surprised to see that I havethree genetic markers for the
same um macular degenerationthat my dad suffered from both

(17:16):
one and dry.
Um, so part of mysupplementation is addressing
eye health.
But yeah, there was heartissues.
I know my father's mother hadangina.
There were other.
There were so many healthissues in my family so I'm
pretty much trying to combat allof them.

(17:37):
Yeah, wow, good for you.
I regularly go see like acardiologist.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
In fact next gosh.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
What is it In my family, so I'm pretty much
trying to combat all of them.
Yeah, wow, good for you.
I regularly go see like acardiologist.
In fact, next gosh, what is it?
Next week?
I think I've got an appointmentwith America's healthy heart
doc, dr Joel Kahn.
He's got his own podcast, too.
Great guy Nice.
Is he going to have you on?
I don't know, I don't think so.
We've never talked about it,but he usually does solo-sodes,

(18:01):
so that doesn't usually haveguests.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Well, listen, I mean there's so many.
I would love to talk about youreye protocol.
You know what?
Let's do it.
What are you doing for your eyeprotocol?
Because that's the only thingI've noticed.
I'm 50 now.
It's the only real thing I'venoticed in terms of aging and so
far, distance, no problem, likea hawk.

(18:24):
But up close reading I'mgetting a little bit blurry and
I have these low, the lowestprescription readers.
I hate it.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
I hate them.
It's a problem then?
Because I can't see very goodfrom far, but close up, I'm, I'm
fine which was great because,you know, as a network security
architect and engineer, I wasalways had my face in a laptop,
so I needed to be able to seeclose up.
Well, and I never had an issuewith that, but, um, I need
usually need a wingman, like youwhen I'm out, to be able to

(18:54):
tell if the girls look good fromfar away and then I can tell
you whether they look good fromclose up or not.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
That's great.
Well, that's great.
It's at almost 62 years of age.
Your hormone profile soundslike it's good.
If you're talking about thefemale and wanting to figure out
, you know they look good.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
But what do you?

Speaker 1 (19:13):
do.
Yeah, that's great.
That's great.
I mean, that's a.
There's a.
There's an epidemic going onwith that.
Men's testosterone is Jesus.
I've basically come to thisconclusion that every man on the
face of the earth ispractically going to have to be
on hormone replacement at somepoint in their life.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Almost all of my friends seems like everybody I
know is on testosteronereplacement therapy.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, and other people shy away from it.
I don't want to be on steroids.
It's like, look.
It's not about redlining yourbody.
It's not about like overdrivingthis and being some like you
know it just puts your down nowI don't even know what it is,
but it's.
It's something that it really islike well below it's normal now
.
Oh my god, I can't even imagine, you know, I I can't tell you

(20:09):
how many guys call me andthey're around that 35 plus,
somewhere between 35 and low 40sand they know something's
happening.
They're like something is notright.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
I can feel it and you're talking total right, not
free.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
You're talking total testosterone yeah, I'm talking
total, yeah, okay.
So, yeah, total.
Yeah, I usually speak in total,but I know the.
It's a lot of it, most of usbound up, and your free
testosterone is the only active,usable portion of it.
But in general, typically ifyou have 300 compared to 900,
you're probably going to have acommensurately less testosterone

(20:45):
.
You're going to notice it.
It's a huge.
It's a huge thing.
And then there's a lot of theseclinics that you know they're.
They're not really up to speedon fully how to do hormone
optimization and I always tellpeople that's one of those
things you need to.
You need to learn from a doctorfirst.
Like go get, go get a reallygood doctor that is really good
at hormones, learn the ropes fora few years and then you can do

(21:07):
it by yourself.
But you really need to workwith a professional.
You've got to look under thehood, you've got to know these
values and you need to know whatmoves the needle and what to
look for in a blood lab.
So if you want to manage ityourself, I mean I've been
managing my hormones stuff.
I might take a predaline,pregnenolone and DHEA and I take
some HCG and.
But I've been managing that fora while, but I learned from a

(21:30):
really great doctor and I spentyears paying a lot of money to
learn that system.
So if you need it all the menlistening out there testosterone
is vital.
It's not just about buildingmuscle.
There's a whole host ofnecessities for testosterone.
Saw you, you know you're ingood shape.

(22:01):
You've somehow bulletproofedyourself and I'm sure a lot of
that is your diet and yourpersonal care products and
you're probably very protective,I imagine, of yourself oh, and
of my sleep too.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
I mean you, you gave me a great offer to go out that
night and I'm like I really needmy sleep.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
I was still on detroit time, so I was like
three hours you know later, soyeah yeah, so I I hooked up from
my club exosome team this Ihave a friend of mine, he's the
head of entertainment for mgmand so he is a lot of
connections, and we did thisdinner performance dinner thing
where it's all like music andall this stuff really cool.
It was called mayfair at uh,bellagio, and then we walked

(22:35):
over to pinky ring, which isbruno mars.
Um, it's like a, it's supposedto be.
I thought it was a bar, butit's kind of a club with a
really, really good band.
But it's got this.
It's a cool vibe.
And he came and sat rightbehind us, this guy.
He hooked us up so we could beright with Bruno Mars and he
gets on stage and he's beltingit out and it was fun.

(23:00):
But I mean I couldn't last pastone.
As soon as 10, 30 comes around,I'm bobbing and weaving.
I'm like I can barely keep myeyes open because I'm I've been
so regular with my sleep for solong.
Sometimes I love it, but at thesame time some there's
sometimes I'm like God, can'tyou just stay awake till one?
You're at this thing and all Icould think of is I'm screwing

(23:24):
my circadian rhythm up.
Right now I barely can keep aneye open, but the people I
invited to this were reallyhaving a good time.
I wanted to be there for them.
Some of them were like hugefans of Bruno, but when you said
you texted me and you said it'sa little past my bedtime, I
can't do it.
I had so much respect for you.
I really did.
I thought this is why this guyis on the leaderboard.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Really, Seriously, I was thinking you were going to
say oh my gosh, this guy is old.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
No, that's what I'm going to be graded on my age,
you know.
Yeah, but starting at 930, thatwas 1230 for me.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Like I said, I was still on Detroit time and that
was just going to be way toolate to get started.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Oh yeah, that's even adding more insult to injury.
Yeah, but I really respected itand I was an Olympic athlete.
I had to live that way for along time, where I had to put my
force fields up aroundeverybody.
Even as a kid, when I firststarted gymnastics, I had
friends that after school wouldbe playing and they're like

(24:28):
can't you just not go togymnastics today, can't you just
skip it?
And I said, no, I can't do it,I can't, this is what I do.
The little devil on theshoulder always yeah, exactly.
So I've really respected it.
But look, I want to circle backaround to this eye thing.
What are you doing for youreyes?
Because maybe you're doingsomething I haven't heard of.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
I'm glad you went back there, because I was going
to try to circle back to thattoo.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
So yeah, a lot of astaxanthin, zeaxanthin, lutein,
eating lots of food that's redand orange and yellow, getting a
lot of the carotenoids andstuff in the diet, just really
focusing on that and of coursenot smoking.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
So my dad was a really big smoker, big drinker.
That didn't help his eyesightany.
And then, of course, he alsogot shingles which took out one
of his eyes completely from that, oh, really Interesting.
So I did bite the bullet.
I got the shingles vaccine.
I know a lot of people are veryadverse to vaccinations but,
honestly, I've been vaccinatedfor everything under the sun,

(25:31):
because I traveled to Africa in2019.
So I needed a bunch ofvaccinations for travel for that
.
So, yeah, yeah.
But it hasn't seemed to impactmy longevity at all.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, well, I mean again, when you're doing all
these other things, it's notthat one vaccination, you know,
vaccination maybe for a veryunhealthy person with massive
metabolic disorders and thingslike that.
I mean, I'm sure there's agasoline and fire sort of
scenario for a lot of thesecomorbidities.
But with the eye stuff, I'm abig fan of astaxanthin.

(26:07):
I don't think I've missed adose of astaxanthin in the last
14 years.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Maybe Love it, it's great for DNA repair in general,
so it's a terrific stuff, yeahmitochondria inflammation.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
I mean it's one of those ones that it's I know it's
Sandra Kaufman's favorite and Iagree with all the odds.
And it's a natural sunscreen too.
So for someone that's reallyfair like me, it offers a
natural sunscreen and I've seenthis work.
I've been in places where Inormally would have been fried
Someone with the same sort ofskin tone as me and it really

(26:41):
works.
But I have that vitamin A snipthat doesn't.
I don't convert carotenoidsinto vitamin A very efficiently,
so I think what I'm going to donow is I've noticed that this
really is a light issue for me.
If I'm at a restaurant and it'sreally dark, if I just shine my
torch light from my phone onthe menu, I can read it.

(27:02):
I don't need glasses.
So I'm thinking I might haveventured into a vitamin A
deficiency because of thisinability to convert carotenoids
into vitamin A.
And also I've supplementedvitamin D religiously for a long
time D with K2.
But you really need to have Ain there with D, like.
I've been doing a lot ofresearch on this and I've

(27:23):
noticed a few little skin thingsthat show up for what would be
people that have low vitamin A.
So I'm going to have thatproperly tested and I'm going to
get that level dialed in andsee what it does.
But I've tried the NAC eyedrops drops, which are really
good.
I've tried the same here yeah,the.
Have you tried the peptide ones,the um uh visal visamitten?

Speaker 2 (27:45):
no, oh wait oh, um bioregulator, yeah, yeah, yeah,
visalutin or whatever.
It looks like it's russian, butyeah, I have.
I have tried it is Russian.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
I've actually bought it in Moscow before, from the
equivalent of a CVS in 2019.
And I put it in my eyes and bythe end of the week I thought
they upgraded my iPhone.
I was like, what are they?
I'm like, oh my God, those eyedrops.
Problem is you can get themhere.
They don't seem to work as well.
The lady in the pharmacy saidkeep it cold.
So I think by the time theyship all the way over here.

(28:19):
They're really not as effectiveand I cause I was trying them
here for a while.
I'm like, yeah, what helps?
But it doesn't have the samepunch they did when I was in
Moscow, so somebody needs tomake that product here.
The other thing I done is takencause I'm in the exosome
business.
Is whatever like anythingthat's left over in the vial at
all, and usually we do a goodjob of clearing it absolutely.
But I will, for my own, I'lltake the exosomes and I'll just

(28:42):
use them as eye drops and I havenoticed that that has had an
effect yeah oh cool, because,yeah, they're so small they're
very less than 115 nanometers, Ibelieve they're.
They absorb through the skin,through them, so they can get
into the eye, and I would liketo do a more regular protocol of
those where I'm hitting it moreconsistently.
The problem is is that as soonas you thaw out an exosome, you

(29:03):
have to use it.
So how do you thaw out only youknow a few drops worth and then
use those.
So I'll figure it out.
But I'm really starting to takea stronger.
I even have that.
I even had bought that programyears ago the eye gym, where you
do all these exercises for youreyes and you, you know, because

(29:24):
some people will say, oh,you're just not able to, the
muscles are atrophying and theeyes so you can't focus as well.
So I have that.
I think I'm going to at somepoint here, take like a strong
approach to it, because it's theonly thing I notice and I do
everything else pretty well, butthe I sing, I, I, just I.
I kind of feel like I've startedto accept it and we've had this

(29:47):
conversation now and now I'mnot going to accept it fight it,
fight it the whole way, kickingit, fight it the whole way,
don't let the old man in I toldyou this guy uh yeah, this uh
famous sculptor and he's in hismid-70s and I was like, man,
you're really active for yourarea, what do you do?
And he's like I don't let theold man in and I thought there's
a country song by that namethat somebody was just telling

(30:09):
me about the other day oh really, yeah, yeah, oh, maybe people
that are watching are going.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
it's so, and so you idiots, but we don't know who
that is so yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Well, I'll dig it up, I'll put a link to it.
So, yeah, I'll put the podcastor the Spotify link to it.
But look, let's dig in a littlebit to your protocol because
something's working and I'minterested.
Obviously, we don't have timeto really go through all of what
you're doing, but I would liketo hit your major sections and

(30:45):
maybe what you think were thebiggest movers for you, because
I guess, to frame this, have younoticed, like I did my
methylation test and then I'dmade some tweaks and then I did
it again and it improved?
Have you pinned down certainthings in your protocol that you
feel are obligatory to yourprotocol and that they had the

(31:10):
biggest swing effect?

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, well, I'm sure you've heard it said a million
times that you can't supplementyour way out of a bad diet.
Right, yeah, and for thelongest time I guess I was
trying to do that.
I noticed that.
All right.
So to figure out how I'm doingwith any of my protocol, I, you

(31:34):
know, I always do like a monthlyblood test and look at what my
blood markers are and then doingtrue diagnostic.
When I learned of them and thetelomere testing, those were
indicators of other measuresthat I wanted to look at to make
sure that I was on the righttrack with my protocol, because
I wanted to make sure that bytaking all these supplements I'm

(31:57):
not injuring myself in some way.
Maybe there's some weirdinteraction between these.
Or you always hear people say,oh, you can't take that many
supplements, you're going toruin your liver or your kidneys
or whatever.
And to be able to verifywhether that's true or not, I
have to do all these testing.
And thankfully no, many of thethings that I take are actually

(32:17):
good for my liver and my kidneys, so it's not a concern and my
markers are pretty good.
But getting back to yourquestion, what's the biggest
mover?
When I found True Diagnosticand began, I took my first test.
I can't remember.
I think my score was like 0.72maybe and then my next test.

(32:42):
I think I was up to 0.8.
And then my third test I was at0.66.
And that was, coincidentally,my qualifying score for the
Rejuvenation Olympics.
The only thing that reallychanged between the 0.8 and the
0.66 was my diet.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Was what.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
My diet.
Oh, okay, the foods that I waseating.
I was eating pretty clean, butthis was right about the time
that both of my parents hadfinally passed and I was doing a
whole house renovation and Iwasn't always able to food prep
and eat clean.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
So I was doing some cheating.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know I would.
I would buy two large pizzasand I would package those up and
I would eat like a couple ofslices for lunch and a couple of
slices for dinner.
You know, in between working onthe house, so you know, the
diet kind of slacked off alittle bit.
But once that was through and Ibegan, you know, I got back to
eating nothing.
But, you know, clean, healthystuff.
Yeah, that's when I got the0.66.

(33:49):
Wow, my pace of aging.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, you know what's interesting is, I did that test
not that long ago and I'm inthe 0.6 something.
I forget what it is.
I should just put my name inthere.
I don't know why I haven't donethat.
I think because you should, Ireally should.
I kind of almost am afraid alittle bit to ping that
competitive nature in me becauseI was an Olympian and I'm a
little bit look, I almost losttwo separate girlfriends to

(34:15):
family games of Monopoly overthe holidays Like that's how
competitive I can get, I refuseto lose.
And I'm just a little bit likeI'm slightly concerned to go
there because then I'll be likeokay, I'm going to go about this
like a professional athlete.
I'm going to be like a race cardriver with all the sponsors
I'm going to be reaching.
I use your product to get youknow to be the number one guy

(34:36):
and I'm going to you know mybrain will go in that direction
product to get you know to bethe number one guy.
And now I'm going to you knowmy brain will go in that
direction.
But regardless of that, I thefood cannot be under appreciated
.
I can't.
A lot of clients and people thatI work with I asked them.
How often are you eating out?
I just worked with an actorwhen it took.
He wanted he's losing rolesbecause he took off a shirt and
he's going to have the physiquethat somebody else did.

(34:57):
And he's like I'm just sick ofit.
I'm sick of losing to theseguys that have a better physique
.
And I said, well, how many timesare you eating out?
He said almost every meal, Isaid, and he had some gut issues
.
He wasn't digesting his foodvery well.
It is really hard to have a sixpack if you have digestion
issues.
Your digestion is how you expelthings and how you absorb

(35:20):
things, and you've got to haveat least one good bowel movement
a day.
But I I got him and just saidyou need to start cooking.
Just simplify, get yourself asteamer, you know, if you eat
meat.
Get some responsible meat, getsome organic vegetables and a
nice array.
Use some healthy fats, use yourstarch around your workouts,
cause that's when you'll absorba lot of that glucose.
And it worked.

(35:41):
It started.
He was like man.
I feel so much better.
I realized just eating fromhome and controlling my meals
has such a difference.
But when I look at your website, you're doing it to.
Not only that, but you're doingit to the next level.
I mean, you're growing some ofyour own food.
Tell me about that.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Before I go there, I wanted to you actually touched
on several different things.
I wanted to make comments on Um.
So when you look at somebodylike Julie Gibson Clark who is
on the rejuvenation Olympics andI think she's in um on on the,
there's two differentleaderboards.
There's an absolute and thenthere's a regular leaderboard.
On the regular leaderboardshe's right behind brian, but

(36:23):
her pace of aging is even betterhers is better than mine and
his and she doesn't do a wholebunch of supplements.
She doesn't do a lot of crazystuff.
She nails all the basics.
I mean she's, she's out rucking, so she's very physically
active all the time.
She does do no Novo's core as asupplementation, but it's not

(36:44):
like you know.
That's great for autophagy andcellular cleanup, but that's.
We're not talking spendinghundreds or thousands of dollars
a month on supplements.
She just nails all the goodstuff, all the basics.
She's got sleep, diet andexercise down and to me I think
those are the biggest movers.
Seriously, the supplementationis just like you said it's icing

(37:05):
on the cake, it's hittinganother layer.
So when you look at things likeTrue Diagnostic, they will
admit that when they developedtheir test it's specifically
designed such that a diseasestate will not affect the
reading that they get for yourepigenetic age, because

(37:27):
originally it was designed to beable to age a cadaver or to
tell, like if you had somebodythat comes over from this
country, from another country,does not have paperwork, you'll
be able to tell basically howold they are, but it had to be
independent of heart disease, ofdiabetes, high blood pressure,
all these major systemic issues.

(37:50):
So when I look at pace of agingand epigenetic age, to me the
biggest movers of those are thesleep, exercise and diet, but my
supplements I take to addressmore organ systems like a higher
level or a higher layer of acomplexity, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, I completely agree with you and I didn't know
that about that methylationtest, that it is independent of
disease states.
And even more back to myframework because, like I said,
the beginning is longevity andthat that really is like shoring
up any sort of diseasemitigation.
Because, like, people get verycute with these tests and they
say, oh, I reduced my biologicalage by 10 years.

(38:37):
And I say, did you reduce?
I reduced my biological age by10 years and I say, did you
reduce the plaque in yourarteries by 10 years?
So you can't put the cartbefore the horse.
You need to have some strategyto manage that disease state.
That's in you, it's in yourlineage, right, and then you
move into what I call the healthspan.
That's your sleep, that's yournutrition, that's your exercise,

(38:59):
that's your stress andmanagement your relationships,
overcoming past traumas, thingslike that.
And that to me is thatbehavioral, those behavioral
changes that really you know howwell can I live these years
that I have on this planet?
And I couldn't agree with youmore.
And you've got to be, you'vegot to have some discipline or

(39:20):
good habits.
I don't think habits free youfrom discipline, because
discipline kind of implies Ireally don't want to do this but
I should, whereas habits are.
I don't even have to have anycognitive expense whatsoever.
I just do this without eventhinking about it, like brushing
your teeth, right?
None of us go like, do I reallyhave to brush my teeth again

(39:40):
today?
No, you just accept it, you doit.
And I think if you can put thosefour movers the nutrition, the
sleep, the diet and the exerciseall in that bucket and build
these habits now, you can startstacking 500 habits right Now
without any cognitive expense.
That's how someone goes Jesus,how do you manage all this?
It's habit, don't even have tothink about it.

(40:05):
Of my framework is really theregenerative part, that is, the
pathways, that is the hallmarksof aging, and that's where you
can use all these medicationsand supplements and compounds

(40:26):
and novel molecules and allthese things to address all
those pathways of aging.
But a lot of people they want toget fancy, they want to come
down to that bottom level,because that's the kind of rage
right now.
But yet they haven't done thepre-work, they don't have the
habits, they haven't mitigatedtheir disease, and so it's an
interesting sort of state thatthe environment is in, because

(40:47):
people are kind of grasping atstraws a lot of times, instead
of just having a solid frameworkand you have a damn solid
framework I do want to ask youwhat are you growing or doing to
control your food?

Speaker 2 (40:58):
I do want to ask you, what are you growing or doing
to control your food?
Yeah, that's an interestingquestion.
I would love to grow more if Ihad the space and if I had the
know-how on actually how toprepare some things.
Right now I'm growing sweetpotatoes again in my yard.
I grew those.
I've been growing them now fora couple years and I keep
learning a little more and moreeach time, making my soil a

(41:20):
little more sandy each timebecause it's helping the
potatoes to grow larger.
Originally they were like tinylittle things.
I like string string potatoes.
I couldn't do a whole lot withthem, but you know, the more
sand I'm adding to the soil, thebetter, the better and larger
they're getting um.
So I've got lots of those goingum.
I'm growing turnips, oh gosh.

(41:40):
I'm trying to think of all thethings I planted.
I planted onions, parsnips,I've got carrots, tomatoes, of
course.
You've got green peppers,yellow peppers, red peppers,
swiss chard, lots of herbs.
I've got basil growing, I'vegot oregano, rosemary, gosh, and

(42:06):
I've had those lots of herbsgrowing in my basement under
grow lamps throughout the winter.
But I've got more outside now,which is nice.
So just about everything I canthink of I try to grow.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
That is impressive.
And how did you get into that?
Is it a massive ordeal?
Because I've done the herbsbefore, I've never planted food,
and I'm highly curious,especially after seeing your
site and I know that, oh, thiswould be so nice.
And I mean, if you think aboutit, you can put seeds in soil
and you can grow food for free.

(42:38):
Basically, yes, it takes timeout of your day to nurture it
and all that, but, like you, youcan forget that.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
You know, I mean food's gotten pretty damn
expensive?
Yeah, it has.
I, you know I used to do it thehard way.
My, my dad used to have agarden and we used to rent a
rototiller.
And you know me being the youngguy, he would always have me
working the rototiller out therein the back.
And if you've ever seen arototiller, it's just this giant
machine with blades and it justtills up the soil, it just

(43:09):
tears everything up.
Getting everything ready forplanting.
It's a lot of work, I don't dothat anymore it.
Yeah, when my dad startedgetting older, like in his late
70s, early 80s, I came up withthis idea for him that he could
continue his garden withouthaving to bend over, without

(43:29):
having to bend down.
I bought a bunch of thesethings called earth boxes, it's
uh.
Well, coincidentally, back whenI was 10 I came up with the
design for earth boxes on my own.
And now here, all these decadeslater, somebody made a product
out of it.
And I'm just kicking myselfthat I ever let my dad talk me

(43:49):
out of it, because he told me itwas a stupid idea back when I
was 10.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
So oh really, yeah, yeah, I'm like I had.
Don't sleep on the next one,right exactly.
Sleep on the next idea, yeahthat's great, it was.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Uh, yeah, it's so.
It's basically is this box,plastic box.
It's got a um a reservoir inthe bottom with a with a that
you can pour water into.
It fills the reservoir so theplant's roots will grow down
into the reservoir and drink asmuch as they want, and it also
has a plastic cover that goesaround the plants so water's not

(44:24):
evaporating.
You only use a little bit ofwater so it's not like just
seeping into the ground andgoing away.
So it's very water conservative.
That part I absolutely love Forhim.
I put them up on stands so allhe had to do is just walk right
up to them and be able to pickand do his pruning and

(44:46):
everything else.
He never had to bend down.
It also kept the animals out ofthem, because we have lots of
bunnies and squirrels andpossums and skunks and all kinds
of things around here.
So it was just a great idea allthe way around and he loved it
and I still continue that tothis day.
Of course I've got betterstands now, but all of my stuff

(45:07):
is in Earthboxes and it's upabout waist high and, yeah, I
love it.
It's all along the south sideof my house, so it's in sun all
day long, but the great thingabout that is I also set up.
Earthboxes, yeah, but the greatthing about that is, I also set
up earth boxes.
Yeah, earthboxcom.
I'm not.
I'm not sponsored by them.
Hopefully they'll get lots ofbusiness from this, cause it's a
really.
It's just a great thing for asuburban gardener If you don't

(45:33):
want to have to dig up yourproperty at all and you can move
them around anywhere you want,cause they're not that heavy.
You can put them in sun, putthem in sun, put them in shade
whatever works best in your yard.
Yeah, I also set up a wateringsystem and I put some of this on
my website.
I need to flesh out that page alittle better now that I have
time.
I have a watering system thattakes care of everything for me.

(45:53):
So really, I planted them and Iforget about them.
I go out every so often just topick some stuff to eat, but I
don't have to weed because noweeds grow in them, because I
got the plastic covers on them.
I don't have to water thembecause they water themselves
every morning.
It's just a timer comes on andruns for one minute because
that's all it takes just to fillup that reservoir and there's a

(46:14):
hole in the side so it can'tover, can't overfill and drown
the plants.
Water will drain out the hole,you know which is halfway up.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
So, it's set it and forget it.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
You know, I was able to go away for 30 days in Italy
and not have to worry about myplants.
I went away for the weekend inVegas.
I went away for the weekend inDallas for the biohacking
conference.
Didn't have to worry about myplants dying while I was gone,
it was all just automatic.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
That's phenomenal.
I mean, you're making it veryenticing.
I certainly am going to.
I'll include links in the shownotes to all this stuff
earthboxcom, and you can findthat at stephenmccaincom,
backslash Hasco.
How do you spell your last name, dave?
P-a-s-c-o-e, p-a-s-c-o-e.
Yep, got it Okay, but you'redefinitely making this very

(47:02):
enticing because I would imaginein my mind I've built it up to
be something where I'm like ohman, I don't want to be tending
to a garden all day long, but itsounds like what you've
developed is makes it prettysimple.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
The way to work smarter, not harder.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that Especially when it
comes to gardening?

Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah, you know, because my neighbors have a
garden on the ground and youknow they're a little bummed
because their tomatoes aregetting eaten by the animals.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
You know what are you going to do.
Well, that's great.
I'm gonna look into all of thatand I might even reach out to
you if I have some questions,because this is sort of the next
iteration for me in terms offood control.
I sometimes worry about all thestuff that's being sprayed on
our food, even if it's organic.
I used to live I used to livein la.
There's this grocery storecalled air one and, my god, you

(47:59):
could get biodynamic food there.
And for people who don't know,biodynamic farming is
essentially where they'veprioritized the soil health, so
everything is about the soilhealth.
Nothing is sprayed on anything.
Obviously, glyphosate is in therainwater, so you cannot get
away from it, but there'snothing that they do to the food
.
It's the most organic really.

(48:19):
You can get away from it, butthere's nothing that they do to
the food.
It's the most organic reallyyou can get.
And what are you doing for yourmeat?
Because you're not a vegetarian, you're not plant-based, right?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:27):
I'm probably more plant-based than not, but yeah,
I do eat meat.
I order from ButcherBox, ifyou're familiar with them.
They have grass-fedgrass-finished beef, free-range
chicken.
Wild Alaskan salmon.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
How often are you eating?

Speaker 2 (48:46):
meat.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Pardon, how often are you eating meat?

Speaker 2 (48:52):
I'm eating meat almost every dinner.
Okay, not quite, yeah, butusually very small.
Like my meat is like condimentsize, I mean mostly it's
vegetables, large salad.
So the meat is just.
It's a garnish almost.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
I got it, got it it okay, and I do eat eggs.
I eat eggs on the weekends okay, yeah, and, and fish is in that
same category.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
I eat fish a lot um just because it's so easy to
make.
Um, the salmon is justwonderful.
I can put it on my um, my, whatwas it?
I'm trying to think what it'scalled.
Now your plate.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
It's an infrared cooker.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I can't even think of the name of it.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Oh really, you have an infrared cooker.
The mind is the first thingthat goes.
Is it a ninja or something likethat?

Speaker 2 (49:46):
The mind- yeah, it's so funny, I mean because I call
it by its name all the time butright now, because I'm on a
podcast, I'm totally blank.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
It'll come.
It'll come back to you.
Yeah, it's a new wave it's anew wave of it.
Yeah, new wave.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
So it's a new wave of it, and so I can um, I can take
a piece of salmon out of thefreezer.
I can, you know, put it in acontainer like warm water and
thaw it out within a matter ofminutes.
You know, cut the plastic, putit on the grill, cook it for six
minutes each side.
It's done, it's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Fantastic, yeah, and so I'm doing that often because
it's so easy.
And that's the thing is.
I think, a lot of times whenyou try to tell people, look,
you need to eat from home, theystart going oh, I'm not a great
cook, I've got so much work andit's all about again working
smarter, not harder.
And there's so many kitchentools these days oh my God,

(50:41):
there are so many ways to makethings easy, do you do any sort
of smoothies at all?

Speaker 2 (50:49):
I was.
I need to get back to it again.
Um, I do, um, I do a drink inthe morning, but it's like
mostly almond milk and then awhole bunch of powders, so I
wouldn't really call it asmoothie.
It's got my protein powders init.
Um, it's got my green powdersin it, cause I do like three
different types of green powders.
Um, again, cause I got lazy.

(51:10):
I was doing fresh greens and Igot away from that during the
wintertime, and now I need totransition back into doing real
greens again now that they'replentiful.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, yeah, I have my smoothie here right now.
I like a morning smoothie,especially because I usually
drink it before I go work out,so it's pre-digested.
I don't want to eat somethingbig before I work out.
I just use a scoop away a scoopof collagen and put some
blueberries in there, somealmond butter and then not
almond butter I use walnutsactually and then some

(51:41):
supplement powders AKG, and thenI was putting a lot more
powders.
But now all these drinks, I'vegot this big.
I'm using this called iCellwater.
Have you heard of thissupplement?
No, so hydration is almost likean operating system upgrade.
When you increase the volume ofthe cells and you get them

(52:02):
hydrated, the receptors all workbetter and everything.
But they're realizing now thatyou can control the osmolarity
of the cell through amino acids.
So it's got five grams ofcreatine, it's got some glycine,
it's got some glutamine, it'sgot some leucine, it's got a
couple of these proteins andyou're just supposed to sip on
it all day long.

(52:22):
And it's great because I live inthe desert, I live in Vegas,
which is hot and dry right now.
So this ice cell water, I justsip on it all day long and it's
allowed me to basicallyconsolidate four supplements
into one supplement.
It's really good the seedscientific research and
performance.
Dr Bill sees his whole facultyhave done the research on this

(52:46):
and then one of the facultymembers created a line of
supplements called new bio ageand they were originally sort of
designed for people that usepeptides.
So this is really good forpeople that are on the glp-1
agonist to maintain theirhydration.
But they have a really goodsupplement line.
I also use their calcium alphaketo glutarate and they do it in
a really good dose, and theonly other dose I have found

(53:09):
that is commensurate was onAmazon and it was some anonymous
brand and I just don't buy it.
I don't buy cheap supplements Donot age.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Oh, they do.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Oh, okay.
Yeah, but it's not a powder,it's pills.
Right, it's pills.
Yeah, yeah, I've used some oftheir stuff.
I'm a fan of their stuff.
I still don't know what I useof theirs some of their stuff.
I'm a fan of their stuff.
I still don't know what I useof theirs.
I don't know if I'm usinganything actively right now, but
I would like to go into yoursupplement protocol, but I feel
like that is a can of worms.

(53:39):
That is going to be.
It really is.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
There's so much.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
I mean, needless to say, I pretty much do everything
.
All the stuff listed on yourwebsite.
Are you actively taking that,or is that kind of more a
snapshot of everything you havetaken?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Um, no, that's pretty much things that I'm actively
taking.
Yeah, I mean, there is asection where I say, um, took,
took it one time, may take again.
I mean that's, those are thingsthat are completely separate.
Um, but everything I'm listingare yeah, they're the things
that I'm doing right now.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
It's a pretty robust supplement protocol you have
there.
It's pretty complete.
I would like to dive into it,but I think there's so many
people talking about supplementsthese days and that's quite a
bit of a rabbit hole.
Has there been any supplementthat has had a profound effect
for you?

Speaker 2 (54:36):
yeah, there there is one that I noticed, uh, right
away, which surprised the heckout of me, because I'm a skeptic
about everything.
When I, when I try something, Itry it with the idea that I'm
going to prove that it doesn'twork.
That's usually my mindset.
But doing P90X, I've been doingthat now since 2008,.

(54:57):
I started noticing somewherearound the age of maybe 55 that
it was starting to take me morethan an hour to get through an
hour workout and I just thought,yeah, I'm getting you know,
it's probably normal, um, Ihated that answer, but that's
what I assumed to be the case.
Well then, I heard a podcastwhere they were talking about um

(55:20):
, a supplement to increase yournad levels, and it was a
supplement called truniogen, itwas nicotinamide, riboside or nr
.
And I thought you know what,I'm gonna order this because I'm
sure it's bullshit, but I'mgonna try it.
And uh, I tried it.
And uh, I was surprised becauseI didn't feel anything right

(55:42):
away, like in my day-to-day justwalking around, I felt nothing.
But two days later, when I didmy next P90X workout, I was
shocked.
I got through the hour workoutin that hour and I had so much
energy left over, I did anotherone.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
And.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
I'm like I haven't felt like this in years, and so
it was a huge game changer forme.
I didn't realize how low my NADlevels must have been, but it
was definitely the rate limitingfactor of my energy, and so
once I began, supplementing that, it was a total game changer.
I was back to my young self allover again.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah, well, it's sort of like the supplement that
works the best is the one you'remost efficient in, or that
process you're most efficient inright.
So for people who don't know'tknow, nad is very important for
cellular energy production, it'svery important for dna repair,
I mean it's.
Everyone knows about nad now.
Have you heard of one, mna?
one mma no so this is likeversion three of I've talked

(56:47):
about this quite a bit of thenad, like in the beginning it me
, these NAD massive infusions,and then we realized your body
can't even absorb that much NADat once and it's probably too
big to get into the cell, andnot only that, but you can
exacerbate senescent cells.
So then we got into theprecursors, the NR, the NMN, and

(57:08):
then now version three.
I actually talked about this inmy last podcast with dr ureth.
She she's one that pioneeredthis whole movement, the one mna
, and instead what it does is itinhibits this nnmt nicotinamide
in methyl transferase pathway.
That's basically stealing yournad.
So it preserves your nad and soyou can take this and you can

(57:29):
also.
So 5-amino-1-MQ was doing thatin the past.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
You'll see that a lot in peptide Apigenin also helps
with that.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Well, apigenin is the other one.
That is the other pathway.
It inhibits the CD38, I think.
CD38, yeah, yeah, but thatpathway is not as it's not
deleterious Like the other oneyou actually want to inhibit,
and so you can take this one mna, just to slow down, you know,
the nad from being stolen fromyou, and then you can also do it

(57:59):
with your precursors too.
So it's it that could be a niceaddition.
If you've had a profound effectfrom nad that maybe audition
that one in your, your stack,and so interesting.
Yeah, I'll put a link to thatin the show notes too.
That's also offered by NewBioAge in their protocol.
I've been using it and I likethe science behind it, and the

(58:20):
people that came up with thisapproach are some of the people
I highly respect the most,people like Dr Ureth and Bill
Seeds Deal Jesus, that guy is,he's a juggernaut of he's, he's
like a savant with thesemolecular pathways, which is a
whole thing in and to itself.

(58:41):
I strive to continue to learnbiochemistry and it's an
endeavor because there's so manypathways and but always
something to look forward to.
Let's talk about your workoutreal quick, because we're
getting to the end of this, andI would be remiss if I didn't
speak about exercise, because tome, that's my favorite tool in
the toolbox to really change theway you look, feel and perform,

(59:04):
and it hits every pathway ofaging in a positive way, and the
more you exercise, the more youcan hit those pathways.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
So you know, I bought a Carol bike back in November
and I love it.
It kicks my butt.
Um, I know that I I needed todo more hit workouts.
I used to do hit.
I used to hit before I didmarathon training.
I used to, uh, run around witha 50 pound weight vest and do
sprints, Um, and I think, Ithink all that ended up doing is

(59:35):
just training my heart rate togo super high whenever I tried
to work out.
So it might have actuallyworked against me, but once I
started marathon training, yeah,I was more into zone two and
then just keeping everythingsteady.
But I've actually found thatI've got a whole other gear
there in Zone 5 that I've reallynot explored enough.

(59:55):
At least I've been told that Ihaven't explored it because I'm
a terribly slow runner.
But anyway, I have the Carolbike that I do every other day,
P90X and for people that aren'tfamiliar with P90X, because it's
sort of an old-school workout-yeah, I love.
P90X.
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
I know a lot of people thathave tried it and like said, oh

(01:00:17):
my gosh, yeah, I can't, I'm notdoing that, that's too much.
Uh, cause, it is crazy extreme.
But I always tell people thatif you stick with it through the
first two weeks of all thesoreness that you're going to
feel, the soreness goes away andthen you're golden.
You just keep building fromthere.
But it really takes two weeksto get past all the pain and

(01:00:39):
torture of it all.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Yeah, I did it for a few years and I loved it.
I like P90 years ago, 2010, 11,12, around that era, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
I found it in 2008 and I think it was out even two
years before that.
Wow again.
That was another one that Ithought yeah, this is, this is
bs.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this,I'm gonna do it exactly the way
they say, and I'm certain it'snot gonna make any difference.
Wow, was I wrong.
I was so pleased with the way Istarted to look after 30 days
and 60 days and 90 days, peoplenoticed and I never felt more

(01:01:13):
confident in my appearance, ever.
And I owed all that because Iwas the gym guy before that.
I was the geek that walkedaround with a clipboard going to
all the different machineswriting down the weight that I
did the number of reps that Idid, making sure that I had some

(01:01:38):
improvement the next week week,and I would even graph this out
so I could see my progress orlack there.
But I never saw me never saw anyphysical changes like I did
doing p90x, but yeah, so like Iwas starting to say it's, you
know, every other day it's adifferent weight-bearing type
exercise.
It might be like, oh gosh,chest and back one day,
shoulders and arms another day,back and biceps another day.

(01:02:00):
It's a 14-day routine, sothere's something different
every day for 14 days and inbetween those they'll have
cardio days.
So you might do Kenpo Karateone day, you might do extreme
yoga another day.
You might do Kempo karate oneday.
You might do extreme yogaanother day, you might do
plyometrics another day.
I mean, it's just alwayssomething different.
You're hitting every musclegroup and that's why people

(01:02:21):
usually feel like absolute crapthat first two weeks, because
you're feeling muscles you neverknew you had before.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Yeah, but it's wonderful.
That's how you know it'sworking.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
It is a comprehensive program.
I like it, and the fact thatyou actually do the off-day
stuff too is, I think, reallyrounds it out.
Have you had your VO2 maxtested?

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
I have, I have.
I haven't done it in a while,but the last time I had it
tested was like two years ago,and then my Garmin, it pretty
much tells me an assessment too,and they're, they were both in
agreement.
I think that my VO2 max waslike 42.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Okay, I think it was.
Okay, yeah, I've taken a prettydeep dive on VO2 max.
We opened up a clinic calledPlace AI Prime Life Artificial
Intelligence Solutions inHouston Amazing team, I love
this team and we went reallyhard on metabolic conditioning
because the studies on VO2 maxand survival is pretty

(01:03:19):
impressive.
So we got this metabolic expert.
He's like one of the best inthe world and it has been on
just a journey down this rabbithole with this guy.
He is all about you'remeasuring your lungs, how much
are you using of your lungs?
How many breaths do you do ineach zone?
He's given me a protocol.
I've started really doing it.

(01:03:39):
I mean, I was low fifties,which is not it's still
considered excellent.
But I saw yeah, for a 50 yearold, not bad.
For someone who didn't do a lotof endurance and VO two max
stuff.
I mean I've always been like agymnast is kind of a power type
person.
And strength training I love, Ilove strength training.
But I watched him when we wentto houston.

(01:03:59):
We were in the hotel, the gymin the hotel.
They had a treadmill and he'sdown there.
He's like I'm just going totest this panoia out real quick.
He's 50 as well.
I watched him put up a 70.4.
That's like Tour de France typeof guy.
I mean it's world class.
Yeah, so he's running all ofour people.
You can get tested by him.

(01:04:20):
You can get a protocol.
He has shirts that you wear.
He can see exactly how youbreathe during all the training
sessions.
It's really well thought out.
I'm just so impressed with hisprotocols and so I said I'm in,
I'm doing this a hundred percentbecause I want to start
challenging.
I want to get up to that 70,you know which is going to be a

(01:04:41):
lot of work, but I'm excited toactually do this part of my the
exercise, part of my protocol,with a lot more sophistication.
And I know this carol bike youmentioned is an interesting way
to raise your vo2 max.
They call it it's like a re-hit, isn't that what the term they
use?
Yep, and so they just it's likea really compressed, high

(01:05:04):
intensity interval training.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Right, very yeah yeah , I usually do the intense
workout, which I think is liketwo 20 second sprints, which
doesn't seem like very long, but, oh my gosh, when you're doing
it it's like is this ever gonnaend?

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
yeah, yeah, and compared to doing nothing, I
mean there's some people thathaven't gone into zone five in
years.
If you think about it, you knowit doesn't take.
That's me I need, I really needto work on my zone five big time
yeah, well, I'd be to seehopefully you'll post it on your
website what the Carol bikeactually does for you in terms
of you know, do you think theGarmin is giving you a good

(01:05:39):
reading and whatever, but yeah,just from marathon training I
watched myself go up from 36 to42, which you know that was
pretty good movement and I knowI've got lots of room to grow
still.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
So yeah, but I'd love to hear more about you know
what you're doing and you knowwhatever you can share.
I, uh, I'd love to learn fromit.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
Yeah, I mean, we have it down, like when it comes to
metabolic conditioning.
That's it with our guy and allthat.
We bought the Pinot, we Pinot.
We bought like every testingdevice out there.
We were kind of like a thinktank.
Our CEO is awesome and he, thisguy Michael Blazer, he will
just look at everything andwe'll just put everything on the
table.
And then I found this metabolicguy for my friend, jesse Carroll

(01:06:24):
, and as soon as Michael our CEOchatted with him one time, he's
like, uh, is he interested inbeing part of the team?
And so we brought him in and sowe have really cracked the code
on this VO2 maxing.
If you do this guy's protocol,guaranteed it will increase your
VO2 max and he walks the walk,and so I'm sold.

(01:06:44):
And if you look at the scienceon VO2 max, I mean look on
average you lose about 10% everydecade, and so you can kind of
back into where you're going tobe disabled, because around, I
think it's I don't knowsomewhere between 15 and 17 is
when, if your VO2 max is aroundthere, then that's basically
what it requires for you to getup, get dressed, go to the

(01:07:05):
grocery store, buy groceries,carry them back home and do the
most basic, fundamental thingsin life, and so you can say well
, I'm this age and I'm this vo2max and I'm going to start
losing 10 a decade.
You can start to see whereyou're going to get into a
danger zone, and I have nointention of being an older

(01:07:25):
person with no energy like thatwould be the greatest.
That would be a huge disaster,like I have so many things I
want to do in life and energy isthe currency, and so I I don't
want to be frail and I lovestrength training.
I don't have to put any morewood on that fire.
That's burning, but I always amlike I don't like cardio, and
now I'm doing it with a renewedpassion.

(01:07:48):
So really cool stuff.
I'll keep you informed and I'llsend you if you're ever
interested in getting tested byhim or anything.
I can connect you guys and I'llput links to him as well and
our metabolic acceleratorpackage and all that stuff.
If anyone wants to say, hey, Iwant this.
It was important for me tocreate something that was.
You know, I've always wanted aclinic, but at the same time,

(01:08:09):
I've been an online guy, and sonow starting to put these pieces
in place where people can goand get real, real results, not
just some paint by numbers sortof thing where it's like, oh,
just do your four by four and dosome your age minus this heart
rate and you'll be in zone two.
It's like, no, no, I wantprecision.
I want to know that every pedalstroke that I do on that bike
is exactly where I need to be inthe heart rate.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
That's why my lungs, my lungs are something I've had
some major concern about,because when I was in college, I
used to work in the dorms.
We would, uh, we used to workmaintenance and security, but
doing maintenance, we used tostrip the wax off of floors with
rum ammonia.
We would just pour like gallonsand gallons of ammonia on the

(01:08:52):
floor and we would be in thereinhaling that while we're
working a buffer machine andstripping all the wax off.
I did this for like a fullsummer's multiple years through
college so I know I didn't do mylungs any favors from that.
Probably did a lot of damage,um, and.
I think that's partially why Ido have so much trouble with

(01:09:14):
with running, so yeah, I've gota lot of room to grow.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Well, I mean look you're yeah, you're disciplined.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
I mean, I kind of feel like if someone just shows
you something and they show youthat it works, you'll be like,
all right, I'm doing it, andyou're that kind of guy.
I mean, you came to ClubExosome and you probably saw
some videos, saw Sandra talkingabout it and said you got on a
freaking airplane and you flewout to come to this event and so
I immediately was like this ismy kind of guy.
He's exactly like reminds me ofme.
And then I saw the way youlooked and then the shape you

(01:09:43):
were.
I thought, jesus, this is whatI want to be like when I'm 62.
I feel like we're cut from thesame cloth.
So I have again.
I have a lot of respect for yourapproach to this and you know
we're getting to the end of thisand I still feel like I have
questions about you know yoursleep and all that, but we all

(01:10:04):
know from earlier that youclearly safeguard and keep your
sleep sacred.
Are there anything, let's say,someone who's watching this and
says, wow, I really like whatthese guys are talking about and
I wanted to start making somepositive changes and doing some
of these things that Steve andDave are talking about.

(01:10:25):
What would be yourrecommendation for maybe
somebody who's a little bitearlier in their journey and
they're just starting out withthis stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Well, talking about sleep, I was really amazed at
what a big difference gettingblackout curtains made to my
sleep scores and wearing a sleepmask.
I just didn't think those wereeven going to be an issue, but
once I addressed those, oh, mysleep score is just shot right
up.
So don't underestimate theamount of junk light you might

(01:10:55):
have coming in through yourwindows, whether it might be
from a street lamp or even afull moon, or just all the
electronics that you've got inyour house with the little LEDs
that are burning.
Those things seem to matter.
I never thought it was real,but it is, yeah sleep is so
paramount.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
It is yeah, yeah, so that's a good one.
Yeah, sleep is so paramountlyimportant, it's unbelievable.
I'll tell you what's beenworking for me.
The moment I get into bed, Iempty my mind.
No thinking about the to-dolist, no thinking about the day,
no tasks, no, nothing.
If I'm going to think aboutanything, I'm going to think

(01:11:33):
about how I feel.
How does it feel?
I try to put myself into mysenses.
I get myself out of my head andI have found that I will go to
sleep fast and I also get bettersleep in the night, because if
you go to sleep with your brainchewing on something, you will
chew on it all night long.
That's exactly how you like.

(01:11:54):
Before you go to bed, you saygosh, I have to wake up at this
time tomorrow, I have to.
And somehow you wake up fiveminutes before the alarm because
you put that in your brain andyour brain is tick, tock, tick,
tock, tick, tock all night,waiting for that thing when it
knows.
And I have found that once youhave the dark and you have good
architecture and you're going tosleep at the right times and

(01:12:14):
all, just empty your brain, donot go to bed with anything, and
then I just feel like the brainjust goes and it lets you have
sleep.
At least that's working for menow.
Have you noticed anything likethat?

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
I do something similar as I go to bed, I start
reviewing all of my blessingsand there's so many things that
we just take for granted, thatare absolute blessings, like
when I went to Africa and Iwatched how people live in
Africa.
They don't have running water,they don't have sewage systems.
So many kids die before the ageof five every day from lack of

(01:12:55):
hygiene and sanitation there.
That's another reason why I'minvolved with Team World Vision,
because we raise money to buildwells in Africa for that.
But I'm just the people there.
They wake up every morning andthey sing.
They sing for their lifebecause they're so grateful that
they woke up to see anothersunrise, whereas our day is
totally ruined if they short usa hot sauce going through the

(01:13:17):
drive-thru.
So I count my blessings just forhaving running water, for
having a sewage system that Ican flush a toilet and have
things go away.
Simple things like that, simplethings like that.
But I mean obviously there'seven bigger things just to be
able to have a roof over my head, you know a car that doesn't
break down on me, good friends,family, you know people I care

(01:13:39):
about.
There's just so many thingsthat you can think about, to be
grateful for, and I think aboutall those as I drift off to
sleep and it's just such a great, peaceful sleep.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
That's fantastic, that's beautiful.
I really think that that has tohave a massive impact on your
whole holistic health.
I've been to China and Russiain the 90s.
I've been there multiple timesin these countries and in China.
The first time I went to ChinaI came back and I said I'm rich.

(01:14:11):
When I turn the hot waterfaucet on, I don't worry if hot
water is coming out, I'm rich.
There's toilet paper in everybathroom you go to in America,
every one In Russia.
You literally had to at onepoint bring your own toilet
paper.
I think that the gratitudeportion cannot be underestimated
enough and I appreciate yousharing that and I think that's

(01:14:35):
a really nice takeaway.
I think that's a nice thing toend on and to just to remind
people the power of gratitudeand really appreciate,
especially in this I want, Iwant, I want environment, that
there's nothing wrong withwanting stuff.
But at the same time, I thinkhaving some gratitude and some
blessing for what you have inlife is is it just a beautiful

(01:14:55):
thing in itself?
It only can promote goodthoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Totally agree.
That's a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Yeah, it's a good one to leave us.
I really appreciate that.
Awesome.
Well, I think we covered.
I think we got it.
I didn't.
We didn't get to stretching.
I know you do some stretchingin the morning.
I.
To me, stretching is so vital.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
So many things we could cover.
Maybe we'll do another one ofthese sometime.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Absolutely, you have a automatic anytime you want
recurring guest spot on the show.
We'll be staying in contact andI want to check in and see what
you're up to and see what'scome down the pipe.
And what you're up to and seewhat's come down the pipe and
I'll be checking out yourwebsite.
If people want to follow youand they want to get to know you
, they want to reach out to you,what should they do?

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
My website is DavePasconet and I'm on
Instagram as DavePasco.
Those are the two biggestplaces you can find me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
Perfect, and I will include links to everything we
talked about.
We had a good one.
And what was the name of theplanting things?
The plant, the boxes Earthboxes.
Earth boxes.
Yeah yeah, I'll put links toeverything in the show notes.
Stephen, with a PH mccaincom,backslash Pascoe, that's

(01:16:06):
P-A-S-C-O-E.
I appreciate you, dave, forcoming on.
It's been a pleasure meetingyou.
I look forward to seeing yourgrowth in this industry.
I'm sure you're going tocontinue to be a bigger and
bigger name in it.
Thank you for coming on thepodcast Really appreciate it.
Feel free to reach out to meany single time and for all of
you that have been listening,hope you enjoyed it and check

(01:16:30):
out the show notes and we willsee you on the next episode of
the Stephen McCain podcast.
Stay healthy, everyone Cheers.

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