20% Discount On Thorne Supplements

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of the Stephen McCain
podcast, where I bring youpeople making world-class
decisions in the field of humanoptimization and performance.
This week's episode is allabout metabolic conditioning
unique way of increasingpeople's VO2 max.
I've been doing his protocolfor some time now and I feel a

(00:35):
lot better.
I feel like I have a lot moreenergy.
I know exactly what zone andwhat heart rate to train in to
burn maximal fat.
I just feel better.
I feel like I'm getting betterblood flow and I don't really
have a strong history ofembracing cardio.
I've done it in the past, butnow I'm fully on board and this

(00:56):
is a part of my completelongevity routine.
And look, the studies on VO2maxare unequivocally there in
terms of it increases yourlongevity.
So this is something that Ithink we can all do to feel
better, to have more energy, topotentially live longer.
So you're definitely going towant to check out this episode.

(01:17):
Let's do this, Jill.
Welcome to the Stephen McCainpodcast.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh, thanks for having me.
It's an honor to be here.
You know me, we've talkedbefore.
I get really passionate, I getreally excited.
Talk about longevity,respiratory and metabolic age
and metabolic protocol.
I love chatting and educatingpeople and giving my two cents

(01:45):
world in this.
Uh, this world, you know that'swe're all about.
Uh, trying to help humanity behealthier and just get everybody
to to live longer.
So whatever I can do to helpand and have great conversations
too, so looking forward to ityeah, absolutely well, the
honor's all mine.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
You know, we we had a conversation not that long ago
and we were.
I was introduced to you by myfriend, jesse James Carroll, and
whoever he's going to introduceme to I know is going to be
really good at whatever they do,and I was.
I mean, I knew within fiveseconds when you were on.
I was like I just liked thisguy and then when we started
talking I thought, oh my God,this guy is really top of the

(02:28):
line and it comes to what you doand you are a VO2 max expert.
But when I look at yourbiography doing bodybuilding,
doing Spartan races, doing ultramarathons and so you've really
seemed to have pushed yourphysiology to extremes.

(02:51):
You're not just this personwho's like well, I'm just this
metabolic expert that's happenedto just maybe be an endurance
athlete.
You really, in my opinion, seemto have a very broad spectrum
of the human body in terms ofperformance and I know we're
going to get into, like yourprotocols and VO2 max for
longevity.

(03:11):
But I am curious a little bitabout your background If you
wouldn't mind just sharing alittle bit of your past and how
you got into being this VO2 maxguy.
And I do want to start off forthe listeners.
I would like to get, before weget into your background, your
age and your VO2 Max currentscore.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, my age is 50.
And you and I have this.
You're older than me, you'rereally old.
He's older by one day.
So we both hit the old, 58years old.
And, uh, my current vo2 maxscore from my last test was 70.4
milliliters per kilogram perminute.
Jesus, yeah, so it's, it'squite high, yeah, and it took me

(04:00):
quite a while to get to it, uh,but it was always in the 60s.
But, uh, I really know I dialedit in with just some
respiratory training and somechanging some some key
biomarkers and experimenting.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yes, yeah, we're gonna dig into that a little bit
, but I would, I would love tojust allow the users to hear a
little bit about your backgroundand maybe how you got into this
stuff.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Well, for me.
I was always a pretty giftedathlete.
I was good at everything.
I was a good badminton player.
I played high school hockey but, being at my size, I should
have been a gymnast.
But in Canada you've got to befrom Toronto or Montreal or
Vancouver to be able to been agymnast.
But in Canada you got to befrom Toronto or Montreal or
Vancouver to be able to be a youknow, a gymnast.

(04:49):
I had that, that body.
But you know, I was a reallygood snowboarder.
I won snowboard and somecompetition.
I won some skateboardcompetition uh, you know,
captain of my high school hockeyteam and figuring out where the
weakest link was and thestrongest point I've had

(05:12):
throughout sports being only 5'6in hockey didn't give me much
of a chance.
So I started watching at a youngage.
As soon as I saw the mouth dropof a player, I knew I had him.
So I said, well, I'm going tomake him chase me around.
So I'm going to make some crazymoves and just skate around and

(05:34):
let him chase me a little bitand make it hard for him.
Then I'm going to turn on mybooster and he's not going to be
able to follow me.
And I didn't do that in thefirst and second period.
So I knew that I was just anaverage hockey player in first
and second.
So I would turn on my boostersand make them chase me around a
little bit.
In third period, then, when Iseen their mouth drop, and

(05:56):
that's when I seen weakness andnow and that's when I would play
my my best hockey, I wouldn'tget hit as much and that's where
I stopped Now.
That's hence where I startedcoming in on board of where I am
today.
But I got a lot intobodybuilding and I'll tell you
when I got out of thebodybuilding I did it all

(06:16):
natural and I competed againstobviously not natural people.
And I did win the bantamweighttitle, you know, first in Canada
, which helped the use ofsteroids, and I think it was
that year after I won.
You know, I was 175 pounds andI'm really thin boned.

(06:40):
This is on the, not during thecompetition days, but you know,
off season this is not duringthe competition days but
off-season, and I couldn't jogmy weight even 175, at 5'6",
5'5" it's just not the goodweight to be with thin bones.
So my dad got a massive heartattack.
He was 60.

(07:00):
That created obviously sometraumatic moments for me, but it
was instant, it was gone and itgot me thinking a lot about my
longevity, where I was at inlife I think I was 27 at the
time and 28.
And I said, wow, he's nevergoing to meet my kids, he's not
going to meet my wife.

(07:22):
I wasn't married at the time.
I was like, wow, you know, thisis crazy.
I want to be metabolically fitall around.
I want to be able to go to thegym, look good, be strong like,
be able to do cardiovascularstuff, eat well, and that got me
on the road to quittingbodybuilding, obviously, and got

(07:45):
in a little bit more into theother side of the equation.
I did so many different ultramarathons too.
I qualified to go to the worldsin Spartan races, and this
probably all happened actuallyin my 40s most of my things that
I've actually done well in theultra field and for some reason

(08:08):
I always had this the way to gopast that 100.
And I and I do believe it takesa certain personality to be
able to go past that 100,because when we pass that that
there's a certain threshold thatpeople just can't pass, but
once you pass it it's easier.
It's just to get past thatpoint.

(08:29):
And the thing is with ultrasonce you pass it, you're okay.
But guess what?
It's going to hit you again.
Maybe it's in 20 miles from now.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's going to hit you again.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
You just got to remember, you just got to pass
this.
Get these negative thoughts outof my brain.
Let's breathe correctly, let'sfuel up, let's hydrate, let's
add the proper supplementationand keep the feet moving.
I always go forward, you knowyeah, yeah, I mean it's.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
It's funny because, you know, I, I I've made the
comment a few times in my lifethat I have pushed my body to
the absolute extreme and I youknow when I when I say that,
like I don't know if I'veexpressed this on the podcast
before, but I mean there was amoment in my training when I was
in my upper, upper twenties, Iwas getting close to 30.

(09:19):
I was trying to make my lastOlympic team and my body was
just shot.
I had two surgeries within ayear and I was laying an MRI
machine for the third time and Iliterally thought, I thought,
man, maybe this is a diseasethat I have.

(09:39):
Maybe this whole likegymnastics, olympic thing is a
disease.
Maybe this isn't healthy tohave this desire.
And I said no.
I said I told my body becausethese things were coming up and
I said, no, I'm going to retire,I am not going to quit.

(10:00):
So whatever you have to do,body, you're going to have to
just do it, because I'm notquitting, I'm retiring and I
have this next Olympics planthat's on the calendar and, by
God, we're doing this.
And literally after I had thatconversation with myself, I went
back into the gym and I was adifferent person.

(10:21):
It was like my body literallylistened to me.
And before that conversation,before that MRI, I was, I
remember, going onto the pommelhorse and going to take a turn
on it and my body it like balkedit.
I couldn't actually get it togo Like it, would it?
It bypassed the signaling and Idon't know if there's a medical

(10:44):
term for this or not.
I heard someone one timemention it, but it wouldn't
allow me.
I was actually in directconflict with my own physiology.
My physiology was like no,we're done, screw you, we're not
doing this anymore.
But after that conversation withmyself, somehow I came back and
at 30, I was in the best shapeof my life.

(11:05):
And so we have these weird likeprogrammed barriers within us
that we seem to adhere to, and Idon't know if it's based on
society, based on like, like.
How do people keep breaking aworld record?
When it was 10 years ago, thatwas like no way we could do it.
And then people do it.
And then now, all of a sudden,okay, now we can break this

(11:27):
world record, now it's thestandard.
So there's some sort of beliefsystem in this stuff and I know
we're getting a little bit outthere but you're hitting it
right on the nose though.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
The belief I mean you know that, healing yourself and
all this.
You know I say it's 30% of ourmental state.
If we believe we're going toachieve, to beat this cancer,
well, guess what?
Our chances of survival.
It goes up and that's actuallya proven thing.

(11:56):
I don't know if it's 30%, don'tquote me on that there but it's
a huge component.
There's a reason why hockeyplayers, golfers, have mental
coaches and psychologistsBecause you felt it as soon as
you decided.
Instead of your body tellingyour mind what to do, you're

(12:18):
telling your body hey, I'm incontrol.
You're not in control, body,I'm in control.
Just like for me, my client, Isaid listen, don't let your
breathing control you, you're incontrol of your breathing.
So when you want to breathe 60times or 70 times a minute or
you're hyperventilating, no, no,you're in control.
Switch your thoughts, get backto what you're trained to do.

(12:43):
You're manipulating the way youbreathe.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Don't let your your breath manipulate your brain
yeah, exactly, and I rememberdoing I've done a lot of yoga, a
lot of like interesting intensemeditations, a lot of
holotropic breathing, and youknow there's that saying that
breathing is the only voluntaryway to control your involuntary

(13:06):
actions of your body, right, sothe breathing is the gateway to
your physiology.
I mean, obviously, the way youthink too, I'm sure affects it,
and because that affects youremotions and stuff.
But let's talk a little bitabout breathing, because I know
our first conversation you werepart of your secret sauce, so to
speak is this respiratory rateand stuff that you used.

(13:32):
And so what are the biggestpitfalls or problems that you
see with people's breathing?

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, I'll go on.
This is real funny because thisjust happened.
Jesse, who we were talkingabout.
He did a resting metabolic test.
He says I want you to actuallyoverlook it and analyze it.
I'm analyzing this.
What in the world was going on?

(13:58):
Your metabolism is so.
Your metabolism is shot.
Wait a minute, jesse.
Was someone talking to you?
Why are you breathing?
All over the map?
And I know you're breathing.
You can breathe a lot slowerthan this and you're all over
the map.
Oh, the boys were talking to me.
I said that is what.

(14:20):
And physiology, I knewsomething was going on.
Someone was talking to him orhe wasn't in his head.
Basically, it looked like hismetabolism was shot just by the
way he was breathing andthinking.
He was burning, let's say,carbohydrates, right at rest and
then you could see his heartrate start to calm down hrv and

(14:41):
then you start seeing the fatstart using fat and his
metabolism, his ph level allwent to a normal level because
his mind, he let it go to relaxand he was breathing normal at
that point because he waslistening in.
And there you know the, insteadof getting coach how to breathe
, he's thinking too much.
But that's where I start myprogram really, and people like

(15:07):
metabolic analysis, like me,they look at that.
They say good metabolism, badmetabolism.
You use good fats.
You, you use, uh, too muchcarbohydrate and they use, oh,
your rmr is you're allowed toeat 1500 calories in around
about a day.
I look at that.
Fine, I do look at that.
But I look at how they breatheat rest.

(15:27):
Because how you breathe at rest, guess what you and I, when we
work hard, we're in an oxidativestress environment of work-wise
uh to training and we don'tbreathe correctly when we're
resting and we're, you know it'salmost like hyperventilating.
So you're always in anoxidative stress at rest.
So I teach people how tobreathe normal so they can

(15:49):
recuperate and be in a good phbalance and and have that gas
exchange.
Because if you're breathing,rapid breathing, you're just
doing upper chest, guess whatyou're gonna have brain fog.
You know it can cause anxiety,depression, panic attacks.
So it starts with the resting.
Then I move on to you know yourmetabolic, your spirometer

(16:12):
reading.
Do you have the capacity?
I look at your age and then Ido a test on five different
spirometer readings that I lookfor right.
The main ones I look for isyour total lung capacity, your
FUD1.
Your FEV1 is what kind of whatwe exercise with.
Right, it's our one secondpower.
So on a spirometer test, you'regoing to go like six seconds.

(16:34):
Right, you're going to get ridof every ounce of oxygen and
ventilation you can in sixseconds.
Well, the first one second isyour FV1.
That's what I use to marker onwhen you're exercising.
All through the different zoneswe have.
We have five different zones,right, a very light walk for

(16:54):
some people.
Some people have to jog to bein zone one.
Zone two you're burning mostlyfat as a fuel source.
This is a really amazing zonefor physiology-wise
Mitochondrias.
We build a lot of mitochondria.
We burn a lot of fat.
You can have actually aconversation in this zone.
You can listen to podcasts.

(17:15):
You can really clearly think.
So this is where I listen toall my podcasts in this fat zone
here.
And then zone three is more likeyour tempo runs where you're
competing at.
And zone four you're going todrift into zone four once in a
while on your marathons and youryour half marathons or whatever
you're doing.
Zone five is where basicallythere's almost no return.

(17:36):
Right, you're going for anabsolutely full sprint and some
people, untrained people this iswhere you hit the wall.
Well, I teach people how tobreathe in every little zone and
with, based on your physiologyand your spirometer reading,
it's going to be different forsome people.
I want them all at the same atthe end of my, my respiratory

(17:58):
program to breathe the exact,almost same way.
But I have to adjust certainpeople.
You're breathing 27 times aminute in the zone two.
I'm not going to drop you to 17times that minute in one shot.
Your body won't know how to dothat, so I'll drop you slower.
And if I put you on a rhythm,you know a nice little

(18:20):
tachometer.
Well, if I put you at 23 times aminute to breathe, well, you're
going to want to get the sameventilation, your body's going
to require the same ventilation.
But now that you're breathing23, what are you going to end up
doing?
The only way you can get moreventilation it's going to force
you to breathe deeper.
Deeper into your lungs meansthat now you're reaching more

(18:42):
alveoli, and the alveoli isright.
You got, you know, zillionsones, right, and but they're all
around these capillaries andblood you know supply, so
they're surrounded.
So as soon as we breathe and wefill these sacks, well, the
blood flows right there, but ifyou're not reaching those
alveoli, you're not going to getthat proper oxygenation in

(19:07):
interesting.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
So you're actually um taking advantage of more
surface area of the lungs.
You're using more surface areaof it.
By breathing slower.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
You're basically forcing your body to say use
more of per each breath yeah,it's all in stages too, right,
we, we all have an extra 25.
Let's, I'm going to use astatus 25.
You know, on average it'scalled a reservoir, right, most
people don't breathe in thereservoir.
You know, people think that I,I just increased their lungs, uh

(19:38):
, by 0.5 liters, like they do aspirometer test, like in six
weeks.
Wow, you grew my lungs by 0.5meters by this much.
Wow, how did I do that?
How did you do?
In essence, I went and stolesome of your, your, your air,
your reservoir, so you're goingto be able to access that.
And people think that theyaccess the reservoir by the

(20:00):
inhale, but it's really on theexhale, because when you're
exhaling you're stealing thatreservoir.
But your next breath, guesswhat?
You're taking an extra 25percent and continue on.
Interesting, yeah, so so Iteach like right now, for, for
someone that's respiratorytrained, I use 100% of my lung

(20:22):
capacity in my zones five.
So for me it's 168 liters.
Is 100% of my lungs that I canuse in a ventilate.
How much I can ventilate in oneminute.
It's 168 liters.
And how I guesstimate this is Itake the FUV1, let's just say
you have six liter lungs.
Let's just say you have sixliter lungs but your FUV1 in one

(20:45):
second is five liters.
Well, I take five liters times40 breaths a minute will give me
200 liters.
Technically, stephen, if you'rethe guy with the stats here,
stephen, you should be able toaccess 200 liters at your very
max.
If you're really well trainedin the respiratory, you probably

(21:06):
will hit 75 percent of that 200.
Fantastic, you're untrained.
Once I got you trained, let'ssay it's what's what's?
100 liters?
That would be a 75.
So you reach 150 liters out of200.
Well, once I tap into thatreservoir, you work on your
intercostal muscles and all yourrespiratory muscles, which is

(21:27):
about 10 pounds.
Well, once I train you to dothat, you're going to be able to
get 180 liters.
Oh, now you can reach 190liters and if you have full
control of your respiratory,you're going to get to that 200
where you're maxed.
Well, guess what?
You just got an extra 50 litersextra a minute in your zone.
Five.

(21:47):
Well, guess what's that's goingto do to your your vo2 max, you
know yeah, I mean that thatthat is basically what vo2 max
is right like.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
What is the definition is the amount of
oxygen absorption right now, howmuch it's.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
It's great to actually being able to inhale it
, but you also need to teachyour body to absorb that oxygen.
So I'm absorbing seven litersnow and it also goes by other
statistics.
So I look at how many litersper breath you're absorbing.
It's kind of like you know howyou get running economy.

(22:25):
So, oh, I'm using certainamount of calories per step.
I'm very mechanically efficient.
Well, I do the same thing withthe respiratory.
How much vo2 are you absorbingper breath if you're under 100?
Uh, you know, uh, millilitersper breath, you know I, I want
you, you know, closer to 150.

(22:46):
Maybe it depends on this, youknow, on on your circumstance.
Like, yeah, I have a record.
You know who my record is.
This is gonna you're gonnalaugh.
The record was 252 millilitersper breath with jesse.
Never seen that.
Yeah, wow never, seen it.
However, okay, it's fantastic,you got the record, but that's a

(23:10):
little too.
You're breathing in a littletoo deep and a little too slow.
So let's, let's give that, that, that those lungs, a little bit
of a break here and let's,let's, let's, go to at least
maybe 90% of your F3B1.
So I don't want, if his F3B1was five liters, I don't want
you to breathe at five liters, Iwant you to go to 90% of that

(23:31):
five liters.
So I said you're trying tomanipulate my DO2, weren't you?
So I just got to slow him down,speed him up in the breathing
frequency a little bit, which isvery unusual.
Only maybe 5% of my clients doI have to speed them up in the
breathing frequency a little bit, which is very unusual.
Only maybe 5% of my clients doI have to speed them up.
Most people.
I'm slowing them down, got itRight?

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, very interesting.
And it's not surprising thatit's Jesse, because I'm sure he
just took right to your point.
He worked so hard.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, we decreased his metabolic age by seven years
.
Yeah, it was six or seven yearsin a three-and-a-half-week span
.
He followed everything to theletter Not surprisingly, of
course, we both know and hefollowed it to the letter.
And, yeah, he went from 48 VO2max all the way to 61 VO2 max in

(24:23):
just following the protocol Inthree weeks, in three-and three
and a half weeks, yeah.
And and even the uh uh leonardwas uh, was doing the uh exam on
him to test on him andleonard's uh in west palm beach
and he was uh.
He was like oh, my gosh, you'rein zone two and you're already
at 52 millimeters, you know, perkilogram minute already.

(24:45):
You, my gosh, you're in zonetwo and you're already at 52
millimeters per kilogram minutealready.
Before you were in zone five,at 48.
Now you're in zone two at 52.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, so this whole, all of this stuff has seemed
like it's become very popular,and a lot of it is from people
like dr peter attia, who hasbasically claimed and I might
get this wrong, but in his bookor on his podcast, I forget, I
subscribed to a lot of his stuffthat vo2 max, in some regard,

(25:18):
is more important than quittingsmoking in terms of your
longevity.
Yeah, and, and he really, youknow, I agree with him, okay,
and he really, you know, I agreewith him, okay.
And he really talks about zonetwo and zone five, you know.
And zone two is he talks aboutit like a pyramid.
So the zone two is your baseand zone five is your peak of

(25:38):
the top of the pyramid, and ifyou want a high peak, you've got
to have a wide base, right?
So, yeah, and so for zone two,typically what he will say is
that that's your, where you'reburning the maximum amount of
fat.
That's why you get thismitochondrial biogenesis,
because you need moremitochondria to burn that fat.
And then zone five is theequivalent of your vo2 max,

(26:02):
right, because that's just themaximum amount of oxygen you can
, like you said, not only takein but process.
That's why there's not only alung thing to do with this, but
also a cellular thing to do withthis, right, like you have to
be able to process that oxygenand get it to the actual tissue
that needs it.
What I find interesting is thatyou focus on the respiratory

(26:25):
rate and dialing in people atevery zone and you don't hear
anyone talking about this, andit kind of reminds me of this is
probably a terrible analogy,but I remember I had really a
weak voice and when I wasstudying theater I had like Jeff
Goldblum was my coach at onepoint who's amazing coach, one

(26:45):
of the most interesting humansI've ever met and he he was like
look, everything's great, yougot to work on your voice.
So I, if you listen to my voiceright now, I have like a little
bit of resonance in it.
I've trained this muscle.
So I did this thing called BelCanto technique and you just do
scales on the piano from reallylow to really high, and so you

(27:10):
need a fluid voice through yourentire range.
It needs to be trained, and itkind of reminds me of what
you're talking about.
You need to be fully trainedthrough all zones.
Right, because they shouldn't Imean they, they all probably
contribute well, guess what.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
To get to zone five.
What zone do you need to go to?
you know what I mean you have togo to zone three, four.
So you need to be able to uh,to, to adapt to, to that right.
And peter pia puts a big,strong emphasis on VO2 mass.
I mean, obviously diseasesdon't like oxygen, right?
I mean it goes more complicatedthan that.

(27:52):
But you know the more oxygen wehave in our tissues, you know
we're fighting diseases.
You know you're clinically likeon the disabled list when you're
below 17.5.
I think that's the scale really.
So you know, sometimes, withclients, you know they're
hovering, you know they'rearound 25.

(28:13):
And I'm like all right, let'sdo the math.
Right, you're 50 years oldright now.
All right, you're 50 and you'reat 25.
You're going to lose 10, andwhen you're 60, well, 10, guess
what.
You're now at 22, 50, that'severything, all goes normal.
But if you gain weight and dothis, you may lose more, right?

(28:35):
So let's just call it nowyou're 21 and a half, at 60.
Now you lose another 10, guesswhat?
What?
You're at 17.
At seven years old you'redisabled, but now you're
technically disabled.
You know climbing stairs.
If you're going to Italy, forexample, and you want to go to

(28:55):
the what do they call thosestairs?
The Spanish stairs you know youwon't be able to make it up.
You know you're going to haveto stop.
You're not enjoying the qualityof life.
So what I do is go this what doyou want to do?
What's your goals?
Well, I want to be able totravel.
I want to be able to to to gohiking with my grandkids at
seven, all right.
So here's what we need to do.
We need to get you let's getyou about 30 by time you hit 70.

(29:19):
So that means we need to workhard at getting you to 38, 40,
let's say right, because you're50, so let's get you to, you
know, into that 40 range.
So that way we reverse engineer, because now, if I get to the
40, you lose 10.
Now you're actually at guesswhat 36.

(29:39):
All right, we're still in yourgold.
You're at 60 years old, 36.
Now you lose another 10.
Boom, I got you in the low, low30s.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Now you can still do things with your grandchildren
yeah, and when you talk aboutbeing disabled, putting on a
pair of pants, going to thegrocery store, pushing cart,
like there you go, that thatbasically exhausted you for the
day, right, like I barely cansustain even the most basic of

(30:10):
responsibilities that I have todo for my own self, and it's
quite scary how that stuff cancreep up on you with age and it
for me.
That that's it's really why I Idid vo2, um, all this testing
back in 2010 and I reallychanged my physiology and I

(30:32):
tested my zones and I put aheart rate monitor on and I had
this watch that would beep at meand make sure I stayed in my
zones and I, I I barely becauseI came from the world of being
like a power athlete right, youknow, like a gymnast, and so for
me, I was in great shape, butit was embarrassing.
I almost I would go to this parkand try to do it when no one

(30:53):
was there, because I had toalmost do this running thing and
play like barely moving, and itwas the most pathetic jog and
it wasn't even a jog, it waswalking with a running movement,
and because if I went beyondthat, I would immediately just

(31:13):
go up the zones, but after a fewmonths of it I could just run
indefinitely, it felt like, andso it's been a long time since
I've done that training and Iknow that it's probably the
weakest link in my physiology interms of my physical
capabilities and VO2 is justlike one biomarker versus like

(31:34):
30 different biomarkers, right?

Speaker 2 (31:35):
So I look at VO2 max, but that is just one protocol,
right?
But I have to attack a lot ofother protocols, a lot of
different stats and biomarkersto change that VO2max.
So that's just one biomarkerwhere a lot of the emphasis is
on VO2max.
So I talk a lot about VO2max,but it is one of my parts, but

(31:55):
there's so many other biomarkersto change and all these little
ones that I'm changing.
Guess what?
It still has the effects on theVO2max.
So I'm changing all thesethings and going back on what
you were saying, you're soworking in your field.
There's a reason why, um, whyaren't athletes outliving?

(32:19):
Uh, joe, below you know, johndo and jane do.
There's a reason for thatAthletes are always trained in
the oxidative stress.
So, in four and fives, on fourand five and three and four and
five, three, four, five, whatwe're finding?
The professional athletes.
They step on the treadmill,they switch zones really quickly

(32:40):
into oxidative stress, becausethat's where they train and
that's where they're comfortablein training.
Well, guess what it's likerunning a car at in fourth and
fifth year, and metal to thepedal right or the pedal to the
metal right.
It's always at that level.
Yeah, versus now.

(33:00):
If we train our body and ourathletes on the low end zones,
on the low zones and train themvery efficiently in zone two,
well, guess what's going tohappen for a hockey player in
the third period.
For the conserving energybecause we train them very well,
a lot of mitochondrial density,they have a great zone two.

(33:20):
So instead of switching fieldsnow at 120 heart rate, I trained
them to switch fields at about150 heart rate.
Well, guess what?
They've gained 30 differentheartbeats there to be able to
stay, burning mostly fat.
So guess what it saves thatcarbohydrate fuel source.
So you don't bonk in the thirdperiod.

(33:42):
You conserve all that energy inthe first and second period.
Guess what?
You're going to be avoidinginjury.
You're going to make a betterplay.
In your third period.
You're going to be moreefficient.
You're skating strides or ifyou're playing soccer, you're
going to be still operating atthe same level as first and

(34:04):
second period for a hockeyplayer.
Yeah, I mean I think that'swhat's missing out of the
professional elite athletes it'sit's funny how they have
terrible zone twos.
I'm like, oh my gosh, youswitch feels so fast.
Some of them it's supposed towalk.
You walk a speed walk on atreadmill.
Switch feels yeah.
Right to carbohydrates yeah, Iwould I like, do you have?

(34:27):
diabetes, like I mean, becausethat's the sign of diabetes,
right?
Your body's not liking to usefat as fuel.
I'm like, do you have diabetesin your family?
No, no, no, all right, let's gofor a blood test.
Come back with a blood test,all right.
It's not that you know what inthe world.
We need to work on your zonetoo.
You're gonna have to like rollfor a month or two, just no

(34:49):
little walks yeah, yeah, thatthat was me.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
But I think the best example of that I can think of a
professional athlete thatreally has what you're talking
about, this massive fat burningzone, is flo money, mayweather
he.
If you watch him fight, he will.
For the first couple of roundshe'll just exhaust his athlete.
He just no one can hit him.

(35:13):
So he's just guarding, guardingand tapping and doing all this
stuff.
And now, look, I'm not a boxingexpert.
So if I'm getting this wrong,please don't, don't come at me.
But if you watch him, when hesees that the other person can
barely hold their hands up, hejust goes in for the kill, Jaw
drops Yep and the jaw sinks back.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
He's like time to go buddy, yeah.
Third period of my hockey gameTime to strike yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
And so for someone listening to this, maybe this is
all brand new to you.
The more effort, the moreintensity of effort you can do
in a fat burning zone.
I mean we basically have analmost unlimited source of fat
we can use, right, I mean it's,you have an unlimited amount.
It's very efficient fuel sourcewhen you have to switch over to

(36:01):
carbohydrates.
You are now.
Now you're basically your.
Your bursts are capped at aminute.
Right, you might have athousand calories.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
You may have 1500.
It depends how well you you ateand stored the calories right.
Yeah, eventually she's gonnarun out and we both know when
you run out of the, the carbs,what's your body going to
utilize?
It's going to start being a.
You know, it's your carnivore.
At that point, you're going toeat your muscles for fuel.
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly rightyeah, there's a reason why you

(36:30):
know that some people don't lose, lose, lose weight and they
ruin their metabolism becausethey're out.
I said I've been jogging forfour weeks, jill, I didn't lose
a pound.
All right, let's go see.
Oh my gosh, you're jogging 167.
You were burning.
Let's go look how much fatyou're burning.
Oh, wow, zero.

(36:51):
But you did burn 670 calories,oh, and you didn't eat that day
and you went jog.
Oh guess what.
You ate all your muscle.
Oh, guess what.
You ruined your metabolism too.
You slowed it down, yeah, andthat is why you did not lose
weight.
It's not rocket science.
You just.
We have to just teach peoplethat sometimes less is less is,

(37:15):
uh, is more you, you.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
That is a very important point.
Isn't that called black holetraining, where you, essentially
, you see these people that areoverweight and they get on the
treadmill and they're justrunning because they're like,
they're just running and andwhat they're doing is they're
just burning through all theircarbs or they're actually
striping muscle for fuel and yougot.

(37:38):
You have to remember yourmuscle is your metabolism right.
More muscle is metabolicallyactive tissue.
That is.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
You should be saying that more often.
I love that you're saying that,steve, we don't say that enough
.
Your muscles are yourmetabolism yeah I don't want to
eat those.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
No, and the older you get, you get resistant to
anabolic signaling.
You don't fold proteins as well.
Your hormones go down.
It gets harder and harder tobuild muscle as you age, and so
a lot of times you have to relyon boosting up your hormones or
doing creative things likeinjectable carnitine in order to

(38:19):
upregulate androgen receptors.
I'm 50.
I pay attention to this stuff.
But where do you think thatsugar goes?
It needs to go into the muscleto be stored as glycogen.
And I always tell people take abig bucket and a small bucket
and then take the same amount ofwater and pour it in each.
It's going to overflow in thesmall one.
Well, that's the guy withlittle muscles.

(38:40):
What's all that overflow goingto go to?
It's going to go to fat.
It has to be stored somewhere,right?
I think that is a solidtakeaway that I think people
should remember.
Now I want to.
I think we've laid thefoundation for a lot of this,
but I want to go through theprocess of somebody who says
okay, I recognize this isimportant, I want to do this.

(39:02):
So what is the process likethey?
They go to some testingfacility that can essentially
what is the process.
They put the mask on and theytell me a little bit about the
process well for, for for myfacility, I, I number one.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
I'm going to do their , their body composition.
Uh, I'm also going to do thespirometer test.
Right, a healthy lung.
I need to know your baselineright.
I need to know what you haveyour capacity right, there's
capacity.
And then there's coordinationright, your capability.
So right now I'm going to testyou out static wise.

(39:42):
All right, what do you got?
All right, so we know what westand still on the spirometer
Great.
Now let's go test thatmetabolism of yours and let's go
see how your body burns fat atrest and how you breathe at rest
.
Are you stressed out?
Do we need to slow yourbreathing?
Do we need to give youbreathing exercise at rest and

(40:02):
see if we need to fix that phlevel, you know, during your
daytime.
So we do the mass thing andit's a 10 minute resting test.
You just basically said that.
That's the fun part of mytesting is that resting, enjoy
yourself, and that takes about10 minutes.
After that particular test, I dosome co2 tolerance test.

(40:25):
I do some CO2 tolerance tests.
It's called a BOLT score.
It's not an exact thing, butit's going to give me an idea of
how intolerable, how their body, the CO2 affects them.
You know, if high CO2 affectsthem, if it's a low score, they
probably have a higher tendencyto over breathe during the

(40:47):
daytime.
So how I do that is I let youbreathe normally in and out and
in and on an expired air, not aforcing, just a regular expired
air.
I get them to plug their notesand we count how many seconds
before their body not, it's nota max breath hold before you

(41:08):
feel that quiver of the throat,quiver of the diaphragm.
Whenever your body feels ittells you that it needs to
breathe, we, we stop the timer.
Is it 10 seconds, 50, 20, 30?
Usually after my respiratorytraining I get people above the
30 second mark and even thoughyou know you can hold your

(41:28):
breath for 30, three minutes,it's whenever your body gives
you that indication to breathe.
So that's a book.
Then I move into the exercisetest, the VO2 max test.
Vo2 is my last number, sothat's, I don't look hardly at
VO2 when I'm actually analyzingsomeone right away.
Right, I'm looking at all theother biomarkers first.

(41:50):
Right, first biomarker is wherethat zone one and finishes the
zone two.
I'm looking at their breathingfrequency.
I'm making sure the gasexchange is being done properly.
I'm making sure nothing funkyis going on right, because I'll
be able to tell if there'ssomething you know wrong with,
you know, your heart valve, oror if there's uh, uh, the gastic

(42:12):
change is not being doneproperly.
It can be dangerous right forthe heart if I'm pushing them to
a certain level.
So I like to see that biomarkerto make sure if I'm going to
continue the test or not.
If I start seeing a dip towardsthe end of the vo2 or or it's
called vo2 pulse every time yourheart beats, uh, I like to see

(42:32):
that number.
If I start seeing it drop anddrop and drop, or we're gonna
see the heart rate going up andup and up and it's like, oh good
, good, good, good, and then itstarts to drop and then you're
like you're trying to fix theheart monitor.
Is it the heart monitor?
You know that could be a signof something else you know in
the cardiovascular.
So there's those biomarkersthat I have on hand to make sure
that test is about.

(42:54):
It's a three minute test.
Some of them is running.
I like to do all my tests witha human body.
So it's either going to be a ahike, or it's going to be a hike
or it's gonna be a run.
I like that because thediaphragm is in a good position.
Unless it's a triathlete.
We need to test both there, onthe bike and so forth.
I wanna test my patients, nomatter what, upright.

(43:18):
So if we're gonna test on thebike, doesn't matter, I wanna
test you upright because I wannasee what the diaphragm can do
too.
Right, that's the respiratoryside of me.
Right At other metabolicanalysts, you know whatever test
will do it, but me, because Ispecialize in respiratory, I
want to see what the diaphragmcan do at, you know, at a nice
thoracic spine, straight upformat.

(43:39):
So you do that test threeminutes warm up and then I
increase the speed every minute.
So let's say you're anon-jogger, you're very fit, but
you have knee injuries.
I'm going to put you maybe at12 degrees, 15 degree incline,
and then I increase the speedevery minute.
So after three minutes warm-up,I increase the speed every

(44:02):
minute until VO2 max.
I usually have to analyze howfast you're going to do.
I put you on a treadmill, lookat your gait at a high speed.
Yeah, how do you feel?
You know, ask a bunch ofquestions and then stop them.
Let's put the mask back on andthen get them on the treadmill,
and I always leave about twomore minutes at the end in case

(44:25):
I don't reach that VO2 max.
So I always tell my clients ifI did my job, you're done this
test in 12 minutes.
If I didn't do my job, well,I'm so sorry, but it's 14
minutes, so I'm going to do thisas quick and as efficient as I
can.
So, uh, yeah, slap me an extrahundred dollars and I'll make

(44:50):
sure that you know I set thisright for you, so it's not 14
minutes, yeah yeah, so let's say, someone wanted to work with
you specifically and we'll talkabout how they can do that.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Um, where, where can they?
Can they?
Because now these test centersseem to be popping up around.
Are there standards or certain?
I know you, you use the panoeydevice, but can someone just go
to one of these testingfacilities in their city and
then send you their details?

Speaker 2 (45:18):
yeah, yeah for sure.
Yeah, they, they can get youknow a second opinion or whatnot
.
I mean they would need tocontact me.
I have, you know, I have afacility in Florida that's going
to be opening up very shortly,West Palm Beach.
I'm in Canada.

(45:39):
You know, for certain athletesI had to basically go to them,
or some longevity clients aswell.
But what I do I can do a lotremotely to even my facility in
Florida.
If the test is conducted bysomeone, you know that I trust
that it's going to make them goto a VO2 max.

(46:00):
I'll know if they're a VO2 Maxjust looking at their stats.
Right, I can't even look at thestats live while it's happening
from.
I could be in Costa Rica, itdoesn't really matter.
So I can do all the analysisand do a Zoom call with the
client if you're in a differentstate or country.
Modern technology that way.

(46:21):
But they're popping upeverywhere and companies like
Pinoy and other companies aremaking it a lot easier.
Now, are some of them trainedthe way I am and analyzing all
the data?
Of course not, right, there'ssome.
At least you'll get all yourstats.
My business, I am a specialist,right, I took a lot of courses

(46:44):
in exercise, physiology andreading journals and how to
change right, reading a reportis one thing, but having a
protocol to change all thesebiomarkers, that's another thing
.
That's what I studied.
I want to change this biomarker.
How do I change this?

(47:05):
Well, let's try this and thisand this, because it really
makes good physiology sense.
Oh, my gosh, you know, I wentfrom burning nine calories of
fat to 12 calories of fat perminute now in my zone two.
How did I do that?
Well, the only thing I've donedifferently is I added one extra
interval training and there'sdifferent interval training.

(47:26):
Right, we know that people atthe track will do an interval
interval, slowdown.
But we both know that if we runfull tilt right now on the
treadmill, you and I will go at14 miles an hour.
We'll get on the treadmill andwe'll run.
We might last 15 seconds, 17seconds at full, full top of our
speed, but our heart rate mightonly get to zone three, but our

(47:51):
legs gave out.
So there's a way to do heartrate intervals.
So when I do an interval, let'ssay I'll put myself in a
parasympathetic state, right, so, which would be zone one and
two?
Right, then I'm going to jackmyself up.
Now if I jack myself up toofast I won't get to my heart

(48:12):
rate goal of 171 heart rate zonefive.
So what I do is I'll go toeight miles an hour, jack up my
heart rate a little bit.
I'll go at 8.5 miles an hour inthe treadmill and then I start
seeing it slowing down.
Now I'll go to 9.3 miles anhour, which for me in kilometers
it's a four minute pace.
When I'm at that I'm jacking upthe heart rate.

(48:36):
Then I'll go full tilt until Ireach that 171.
As soon as it's 171, I start mytimer Click 30 seconds in my
zone 5.
So now I'm almost in the way Ibreathe.
I'm still suppressing a littlebit of the sympathetic, but no
matter what, you're in anoxidative stress at that point.

(48:58):
But then 30 seconds up, boom,I'm going to slow it down.
Let's say my heart rate isabout 150 where I switch fuels,
150 heart rate.
So I'm going to wait until Ihit 150, but not really For me.
Each individual I'll say waituntil 140.
For me I wait until I'm 140,then I put 90 seconds on.

(49:21):
That means I'm now finally myheart is is recuperated, my
lungs are recuperated and mylegs, uh, and fuel supply is
kind of recuperated.
So now I'm gonna wait 90seconds, calm down my my
sympathetic state into aparasympathetic state.
So I'm telling my body, ah,it's okay, he's gonna go back.

(49:42):
He's pretty crazy.
He's gonna go back to his zonefive.
But don't worry, body, he'sgonna come back to us.
Yeah, so I'm trying tomanipulate in my body so what
that's gonna do to the body.
I'm teaching the body to use alittle bit more fat in zone two.
Plus it's increasing your vo2max.
We're we're fixing a lot ofbiomarkers by doing that.
Now, do I do that type oftraining now?

(50:04):
No, I'm past that.
I'll do a little bit more.
Like peter attia, he doesn't dolike just those types of
intervals, he'll do like a bigfour minute interval.
Yeah, I, I don't follow thatprescription.
You know what I do for myinterval I go run in the
mountains.
We're blessed with mountainswhere I live, so I go all out in
the mountains and then I tonedown.

(50:26):
All out in the mountains, youknow, I could see, maybe a big
hill.
That's about, like you know,500 meters or 500 feet up, and
I'll just go for it, just dig myheels in and when I reach the
top I'm going to continue goingreally hard to make it three,
four minutes.
Then I'm going to dial it downto a zone three and then, once

(50:51):
I'm recuperating enough, I'llcontinue on.
Yeah, but again you have to wait.
I don't do that the first yearfor clients, unless they're
they're elite, you know yeah I.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
I think that whenever you're learning something, it's
really good to do a protocol bythe book so you can really
learn how to do it.
But then, as you get to a pointwhere, like, you know this
stuff, then it's aboutincorporating it into fun,
active lifestyle, right whereyou.
Where you're like, hey, I'mgoing to, I'm doing this

(51:27):
mountain, and the protocols thatI know are already a part of me
, so they're just, I just do themountain and this protocol is
inside of me.
I call it playing jazz.
You know, it's like when I goto the gym, I can walk into a
gym and a friend of mine has thebest gym I've ever seen in the
world.
He has so many.

(51:47):
He's actually a businesspartner of mine.
It's a phenomenal.
You go in, he has everything,and so we go in there and we
just work out and I call it justdo playing jazz, because I'm
doing this, I'm picking up this,I'm doing that, and but what
I'm doing is actually all thesedifferent protocols that I know
I just play within the frameworkof all these things you know.

(52:12):
So I think this VO2 max stuffis something that we should all
learn to incorporate into ourlives.
I wanted to ask you.
So once somebody gets testedand let's say you, you look at
them and and you start to workwith them on a protocol how,
what do they need in terms ofwearables in order to track all

(52:34):
this?
These biomarkers?
You know what I?

Speaker 2 (52:36):
mean because there's all these devices now.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, what do you recommend for that, or what do
they have to do?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
I, I, I, I love the uh, obviously the uh.
I I'm a garmin guy, so I lovegarmin because I use a, a portal
where basically every time myclients, uh, you know, turn this
on, I see it when they do theirrespiratory training, they need
to click that, it's done, andand then they, they give me a

(53:03):
rating on rpe, or how hard wasit?
Five out of ten, ten out of ten.
So I, I can see everything.
I know where the heart rate, Iknow that they, uh, I'll send
them a message.
You know it pops on my phone.
I see, well, how come youraverage heart rate is, uh, 146?
Uh, this was known today there.
Uh, mr jo, joe Blow, here, youknow, guess what?

(53:25):
You stopped burning fat at 135.
You know that, right, I justwant to check in with you.
What was going on?
Well, my dog was having fun andI just continued to jog with
the dog.
All right, all right, guesswhat you're doing tomorrow.
Zone two and tomorrow is theinterval.
Guess what?
We're switching it up.
This is the interval.
Guess what we're switching itup?

(53:46):
This is your interval day.
We're going to consider that aninterval.
So, and going back a while ago,remember, we were talking about
the psychology and I'll tell youwhy.
My protocol is really cool.
It changes people's lives andI'm very excited about it, but
sometimes it's too much.
For example, someone in Floridadidn't take the respiratory

(54:16):
training device and all myprotocols.
I hadn't done it in like Idon't know two and a half weeks,
but it's all on my desk, it'sready, it's ready.
I just keep forgetting.
I keep forgetting.
I said listen, I said you'rethe type of guy that you train
hard, work hard and so forth.
Let's dumb down your the recipehere.
Let's dumb it down.
What's your commute?
Ah, all right, no problem.

(54:38):
Here's what we're going to do.
Instead of the 20 minuteworkout for the rest of it,
we're going to change it to a10-minute workout for you.
So you're going to do fiveminutes in your zone two At this
phase.
You're going to breathe thatI'm going to tell them how to
breathe because you know in myprotocol you're going to go past
that depth, past the depth onthe inhale, past the depth we're

(54:59):
going to exaggerate With thedevice.
We exaggerate breathing, allright.
So you're going to exaggeratezone 2 breathing.
Keep focusing on that.
You're pretending that you'redoing zone 2, but you're driving
People think like you're anidiot.
You got this big balloon and youknow you're going down.
You know you got CO2 in theballoon.
That's why you're not going toget like lightheaded or anything
, because you're still suckingin some CO2 and some of the

(55:20):
excess oxygen some CO2 and someuh, the excess, uh oxygen.
So you're going to do that onyour drive.
Now you're going to switch itto.
Let's go to his own forbreathing.
I'm going to put you at, youknow, 35 or whatever the case.
I put him at and and you'regoing to breathe at that at five
minutes.
Now he's listening to a podcastand he's doing that.

(55:41):
So I use a little bit ofpsychology that a little bit is
better than nothing.
So now I got him doing myrespiratory training on his
drive.
So now it's efficient.
So why the protocol works forsome people is we need to dumb
it down.
Sometimes you know you don'twant to go four days a week at

(56:02):
the gym.
No problem, let's do full bodyin two days.
Can you handle that?
I have to do that because tokeep my muscle mass I hate the
gym but I do it and I go twiceand I've been going three times
a week.
We'll have that discussion, youand I.
I'm finally doing three daysthere Excellent.
But you know, sometimes thosetwo days is better than none,

(56:27):
because if I don't do that, Ilose too much muscle mass with
my runs and my other forms ofcardio and my TRX workout are
great at mobility and great forendurance and different, you
know, balanced muscles and soforth, but it's not going to
bring me the mass that I need tokeep for my metabolism, like
lifting good, heavy weight stuff, yeah.

(56:49):
So dumbing it down is huge andusing psychology to to do it.
And sometimes people say,listen, I want to do yoga and I
know I'm not going to do this.
All right, let's talk aboutthis.
What about trx?
What about this?
Okay, you're gonna do yoga, canyou do a yoga?
That's a little bit more.
You know physical.

(57:09):
Yes, there's this type of yogaand I don't know much about yoga
, but I'm like, yes, let's dothat yoga, can you do that?
Yes, ha, compromise, let's doit, yeah, yeah yeah, because
look a protocol, but life exists.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
It's part of the whole jazz thing that I talked
about.
It's like weaving this stuffinto your lifestyle.
You know, like you got to havea treadmill desk to get in
10,000 steps a day or to keepmoving.
Then that's what you got to do.
You just got to figure out,like, what are my constraints
and how do I work with them.
Let me ask you this because Ido work out with weights three
times a week when I do yourprotocol, because I'm definitely

(57:50):
going to do it and I'm fairlyaggressive I'll be driving for
results, but at the same time,knowing that I lift three days a
week and with a day off inbetween, what am I looking at?
What am I looking at in termsof what am I looking at?
What am I looking?

Speaker 2 (58:08):
at in terms of a full protocol within that as well.
Well, I'm going to be puttingon your metabolism, which we
assume with you, uh, that yourmetabolism is going to be good.
Uh, so I'll probably add some,some interval training.
But before I give you the pro,I'll give the protocol.
But then I talk to you.
Jill, I, I really want to do.
Uh, I want to run in themountains.
Uh, I want to do, I want to gohiking in in the mountains

(58:31):
because you're in nevada.
Uh, I want to go where there'srattlesnakes.
Fine, you like doing that.
Steven, let's go see somerattlesnakes.
You know, maybe I don't want togo with a rattlesnake, I'm fine
, I like my little grass snakes.
But then again, then we gotbears and moose and yeah, yeah,

(58:53):
you've got a lot out there whereyou're at.
Yeah, we got a lot of crazystuff, but we don't have
alligators and stuff like that.
But so, with you, you're goingto get a lot of zone two
training, right, it depends now,right, probably no matter what.
You're going to get a lot ofZone 2 training, it depends, now
, probably no matter what you'regoing to do Zone 2.
Zone 2 for people like you andme that are elite athletes is

(59:14):
very boring.
I dislike it.
I cringe.
I listen to podcasts, but eventhat it's still hard for me to
do a zone two.
I'd like to jog fast, andrunning at 6.8 miles an hour is

(59:35):
boring.
And remember zone two.
You've got a lot of oxygenthat's in your brain, so you
can't think.
So you need a podcast.
So you've got to keep yourselfbusy.
But I also don't want you to betalking to the guy next door,
because guess what talking does.
So you need a podcast.
So you got to keep yourselfbusy.
But I also don't want you to betalking to the guy next door,
because guess what talking does?
Salespeople, we hyperventilatewhen we talk.
We're constantly a little short.

(59:55):
You know tachypnea it's called,right, yeah, so you're just
short bursts of breath, sothat's a form of
hyperventilation.
So I want you to be able tobreathe.
I'm going to be teaching youhow to breathe through your nose
.
That'll teach you basically tobreathe deeper into your
respiratory system and yourlungs.
We're going to do those zonetwo trends, it depends what you

(01:00:16):
like, so we're going to find it.
Then, if I find like a littledeficiency in your power lungs,
is it asthma or is it slow lungsor lazy lungs?
Is it your respiratory?
Is it your mobility?
Is it your respiratory muscles,sorry, or your mobility, I say,
oh, you know what, steven,which I know, your core is

(01:00:36):
probably crazy strong.
So I'll know right away, yourgymnast, that your core is
probably darn strong.
So it's not going to be that.
Your mobility, it's probablynot that so.
So most likely for you it won'tbe mobility to your core, but
I'll still give you someexercise because I want you to
be able to be able to controlyour expiratory muscles and it

(01:00:59):
takes a while for you to be ableto manipulate and get rid of
that extra 25% of air, right.
So that's core.
And then I'm going to get youto do an interval and we come up
with a good plan for aninterval, probably for you,
depending on your VO2 max.
One to three, depending on yourlifestyle too.

(01:01:22):
Maybe it's two, maybe it's justone, but then when we reach
this One to three a week, youmean a week, yeah, sorry when
I'm talking like that, yeah,it's per.
Yeah.
One a week, yeah, okay.
And and we discussed your formof cardio in your zone too.
We discussed your core training.
The best core training that I dois trx, right?

(01:01:43):
I've been doing, been TRXcertified for I don't remember
2013, I guess.
I guess that's 11 years beingcertified in TRX.
So I do a lot of cool stuffwith TRX to work these
intercostals, the obliques, your, your abs.
There's a lot that goes to therespiratory muscle, right?
The average person is 10 poundsof muscle.

(01:02:04):
So think about that.
That's a lot that goes to therespiratory muscles, right, the
average person is 10 pounds ofmuscles.
Think about that.
That's a lot of muscles that weneed to recruit to help the
lung and people with lungdiseases.
We really need to work on thatright.
When it's COPD, usually it's theinspiratory.
I got to teach them how tobreathe around some of their

(01:02:25):
scar tissue, right, so it has todo with the inspiratory.
So we're working on theinspiratory.
When it's asthma, it's theexpiratory.
So we need to teach them to getrid of the number one the mucus
.
When we get rid of the mucus,the inflammation is going to go
down.
So when you do that, you haveaccess to more of the lungs,

(01:02:47):
right?
Because usually asthma willform into your bronchioles and
your trach and into the mediumto small airways.
So we remove mucus from doingexpiratory exercises.
We'll remove some of that mucusand get rid of that
inflammation and help peoplewith those asthma problems
Interesting.
So there's a lot of analyzingand protocol.

(01:03:10):
I find it really easy and itjust feels like it's very
natural, but for some reasonnobody's really designed a
protocol like mine.
I think that's why it'sobviously it's taken a mind of
its own and really been from allsides on asking me how am I

(01:03:31):
getting these stats?
It doesn't make sense.
Well, when you use respiratoryto change these stats, wow, does
it ever have?
You know, you can even actuallydo certain breathing techniques
48 hours before a big, let's say, a hundred meter dash.
I got a hundred meter dash guythat needs to.
He's going in two days from nowto basically get his EPO up by

(01:03:58):
triggering ways to extract EPOfrom the spine fluid, and I can
also, right before they do the100-meter dash, I can do some
certain breastfuls to squeezeout the oh my gosh, I can't
think of where we hold blood.
We hold 300, not pancreasSpleen, spleen, thank you.

(01:04:20):
I'm French, so sometimes itdoesn't come natural but to
squeeze out 300 milliliters ofblood.
What's 300 milliliters going todo?
Well, guess what?
It's fresh blood.
An extra 300 milliliters isgoing to bring even more oxygen,
so I can trigger that for thenext 60 minutes.
There's so much stuff that wecan do.

(01:04:41):
I'm so excited to teach you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
I can't wait.
I'm really blessed that we'vemet I told you about my friend
that I've recently met who hecan hold his breath for 24
minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
He told me that yeah, he's held it three minutes and
I and, but I haven't practicedso I don't know what's my max,
but there's, that's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
It's.
I'm going to have him on thepodcast Cause I think that, like
with your podcast and with his,I think people are going to be
armed with like everything theycould ever imagine.
So he does a lot of like lungstretching stuff, cause he's
like, look, people have neverstretched their lungs and he's
like, the first time you stretchthem, you're going to get so
much out of it because you'venever stretched it before.

(01:05:26):
And he has all these liketechniques and and, like you
said, he can clench his spleenand kick out red blood cells and
so I need to meet that guy.
yeah, you know, I'm gonna, I'mgonna I'm gonna absolutely and
and you, you have to come out tovegas one time we'll have like
a get together.
We'll do like a super geek outsession.
Maybe we'll even do a wholepodcast on that, where we're all

(01:05:48):
together in the same room.
But definitely, yeah, he doesthis event where he's performing
in a glass cylinder filled withwater for 10 minutes and he's
doing a whole act and it'sbonkers and he knows this stuff
on such a it's kind of like howwhat you were saying there's a
lot of people out there that runthese protocols for people, and

(01:06:09):
I call it paint by numbers.
You know they're like oh, here'sthe, you just do this, this and
this.
But people like you and thisguy, a friend of mine they're
literally artists.
You're taking these scientificprotocols and you're massaging
each little, turning littledials and trying things and

(01:06:31):
seeing what results you get outof it, and so the initial
protocols are just like the.
They're like the starting point.
But then, when you can workwith these people like yourself
who are kind of artists, you canreally get more out of it.
And and those are the people Ijust I adore.

(01:06:51):
I really love working withpeople that really take the ball
and they just run and theydon't need permission.
I'm going to tweak it.
I'm going to do things and Idon't care if it goes against
the grain.
I'm going to squeeze the mostout of this, and so I think
you'll get a kick out of me inthe sky.
I did want to ask you this.

(01:07:12):
I have a Concept2 rower.
I have a Trueform treadmill.
I have a Concept2 erg bike thathas this little desk on top of
it so I can do Zone 2 and checkemails, you'll be in Zone 1, by
the way, oh, I will.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Yeah, you'll be on that.
Oh, on that note, I got to tellyou a funny story.
I'm trying to get my clientinto zone two and walking their
dog.
I'm like, okay, this is notworking out with you and your
dog.
You know what I did?
I bought them a gentle leerTell me what?
The dog keeps stopping to sniffand I can't control the dog.
The dog is a black lab and Isaid are you Bought them a

(01:07:55):
gentle leer so they could dotheir zone two Now with the
gentle leer?
It doesn't like its neck beingpulled this way.
So now they can get into zonetwo because they got a gentle
leer and when the dog wants togo sniff, she can put her dog
back into a plane, basically inthe walking path, and continue
walking Instead of being pulledto the tree, smelling the tree
and and fighting with the dog.

(01:08:16):
You can stay in the constantstate.
But anyway, it's a really funnything that your dog was
stopping them from getting tozone two because she'd have to
stop every like five minutes.
Sniff this fire hydrant, sniffthis tree.
I bought a gentle ear there.
Just keep the dog going thelast five, ten minutes of your
walk there.
There, let your dog go sniff.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's the thing being the
artist in it.
So you're saying that on allthese riding this bike, I won't
get into zone two.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Oh, you're right.
But I'm saying if you're ableto probably type oh God, like I
can't I walk, I have a 70.
I can't I walk, I have a 70.
I think he's 77 now.
I've been actually practicinglongevity all my tricks on this
guy for the last 10 years and wewalk, he's 77.

(01:09:12):
We can walk at about 3.8 milesan hour to 4 miles an hour.
We're cooking and, um, I can'tget to even like close to a zone
two right and four miles anhour.
Even when we climb a hill I tryto even go past them and see if
I can get.
I can't get into zone two soyou can get fit enough that you,

(01:09:33):
just you won't get to that zonetoo.
I have to jog.
Most people can't jog in zonetwo right, which which that is
hard for some people, right?
If you're telling that's why Idon't have any marathon runners
almost in my, my rolodex, youknow, when they come to see me

(01:09:54):
they're not going to follow myprotocol because most of them
can't run in zone two andthey're going to have to speed
walk to get to run.
So it's very hard for a runnerto slow down because they came
in running zone two most of thetime, or if they do, they got to
run at five miles an hour LikeI had to relearn how to to to
use my proper fuel at higherrange.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Yeah, I want to ask you this too, because Peter Tia
talks a lot and I even boughtone and I started playing around
with it a lactate meter,because you're talking about
getting a proper test done, andthen you get this whole display
of things and you actually knowhow to use all those numbers and
really stage an entire protocol.
What are your opinions on justdoing some zone two training and

(01:10:39):
then just pricking your fingerand using a lactate meter and
seeing how many millimoles oflactate you have in your blood?

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
I don't use the, you know.
I use breath analysis really,instead of, you know, pricking
it's obviously less evasive,really instead of, you know,
perking it it's obviously lessevasive, and I get all my stats
from there.
So I don't really get into thelike.
I know that I can teach anathlete to you know how we all

(01:11:11):
call it lactic acid.
You know, and you stiffen rightup.
I can teach, you know athletesto not get into that lactate
state by kind of teaching themhow to use lactate as a fuel
source, technically, yeah, sothat you're not going to get to
a lactate state by differentrespiratory protocols and proper
breathing techniques and properinterval and zone training, so

(01:11:34):
that you're not going to uselactate as something that's
going to stop you.
You know, you can go do like.
You know, for example, thatelite runner that actually he
was one, you know, one of theonly ones that listened to from
A to Z.
He can go run a 5K run, whichis 3.1 miles, and get, get his.
He can run that and used to runit in about 1750 and he's now

(01:11:59):
run it in 16 minutes 45 secondsand he's our age and he was able
to achieve that by justchanging his breathing method.
So he shaved off a minute offhis 3.1 mile or five kilometer
so he doesn't really get to thatlactate stage anymore, so he
can sleep better.
He says I sleep better at nightand I can go do a pr run in a

(01:12:20):
race.
And then my buddy asked me to gofor a 10k run with him in a
zone two.
I can go.
But you said before when I,when I, when my body would go
into full lactate and I wouldfinish it with the, you know my
skin on my teeth and just makingit and collapsing and gasping
for air, full lactate.

(01:12:41):
You know the dead legs, thecement legs yeah, that's
probably me.
Yeah, so yeah, if you wouldhave done the lactate test there
, you know, obviously you wouldhave been in full lactate.
But on that note again, it wassupposed to be a simple yes or
no, but I don't use lactate,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
I mean it really is a pain in the ass.
I mean I think it'll be reallygreat when some of these
wearables can actually read thatLike it would be a nice another
biomarker to actually add tothe equation.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
I know I've got these shirts that are for, like
hockey players, and for or forto to add on to my protocols.
I'm going to be testing this,but it's going to be, um, the
wearable device it's going to betesting.
It's uh, it's going to betesting the uh heart rate
variability, your nervous system.
It can actually even sense howdeep you're breathing up to

(01:13:35):
about, I think it's like plus orminus 4% and your breathing
frequency and your ventilation.
So I'm very excited to betesting that and for one to be
able to put that on a hockeyplayer or a soccer player or a
football player and seeing howthey breathe and be able to
analyze their nervous system aswell.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
Right, yeah, that's cool Very cool.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
I'm excited for that and be able to analyze their
nervous system as well, right?

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Yeah, that's cool, very cool.
Yeah, I'm excited for that.
Yeah, I mean, it is a lot ofgreat stuff.
I don't think we can fullyimagine all the interesting,
great things that technology isgoing to do for us moving
forward.
I have a wish list of thingsthat I want to be developed, and
I'm sure they'll be developedthe thing you said about the
lactate, I think my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Imagine if they have a device, you know that it's
coming, we have yeah, because weknow that.
Uh, you know moxie, and theycan.
It can read the, uh, the amountof oxygen inside or muscle
tissue, right, and you know.
So if it can do that, why can'tit test lactate from the less
evasive way?

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Yeah, I attend this it's like a hybrid medical
finance investor conference acouple times a year and that's
where I met my friend that canhold his breath for 24 minutes.
But they have this, there'sthis device that's always there
and they use it as like a CGM toglucose monitor real time.
But they say, the technology isthere where they can almost

(01:14:59):
measure anything, so they haveto get clearance and they have
to go through all these things.
But basically they're like themachine is, the device is ready.
So like how badass would it befor you to be able to wear this
thing and to know all your bloodbiomarkers, maybe even your
nutrition, in a real time.

(01:15:20):
You know, like I'm taking mysupplements based on.
Even maybe a supplementdispenser is spitting out the
amount of milligrams you need,based on this thing in real time
.
Like that would be crazy realtime on your watch.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
you'd be be like oh, I need a protein bar, I need a
carb bar.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Yeah, it's going to happen for sure, but fortunately
we're at a point where we haveenough access.
I mean, someone can go down,they can get tested, they can
work with you and they canimprove a substantial biomarker
that is highly correlated withlongevity, and they can do it

(01:15:58):
over the internet.
I mean, like, like we're havingthis podcast, so you know we
already have enough to reallymove the needle, not a little
bit significantly significantlyright when you can reverse
someone's you know metabolic age.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
You know, in three and a half weeks by seven years.
Now that, oh, granted, you knowjesse, last week, or it was
this week, you know, uh, hereally committed you know 110.
But even if he would havecommitted 60 of the protocol he
still would have probably got atleast three, three years off
his, off his metabolic yeah.

(01:16:34):
And if anybody doesn'tunderstand metabolic age, right,
we're basically.
You know my body, let's say myVO2 max.
Well, it's not even on thescale right, even as a
20-year-old, you know it doesn't.
The elite is not even doesn'tsay 70.
It says, I think 60 orsomething like that right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
You're off the charts , literally.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
I'm off the charts, so I'm not even born yet because
I have my metabolic.
But most of the clients, right,they're aiming to be their age
number one and then reversetheir age.
It's their body.
So if you're 50 years old, youwant your body to feel like it's
30, right, let's drop it down afew decades.

(01:17:14):
That's my goal.
For people is to drop by twodecades.
If we can bring you to afeeling of 30-year-old, your
body will feel.
30-year-old Doesn't mean thatyou have to date someone that's
20 years younger.
Now it's your body feels likeit.
Right, your mind's still 50.

(01:17:35):
You're still wearing the goodold reading glasses, but it's
what your body can do.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
I have a small confession.
So for some reason, throughoutmy life, my dating life, I
always dated women that werequite a bit younger than me and
I always had these people thatwere like, oh, I get it.
And they would imply that thatwas my level of maturity.
And maybe it was, maybe it was.
But I used to always tell themI said, look, it's not the level

(01:18:05):
of maturity.
I said it's the hormone level.
I am hormonally aligned withsomeone of that age, so he's
kind of off topic, but withsomeone of that age, so he's
kind of off topic.
But but what you're saying is.
What you're saying is hey, ifyou can boost, bring yourself
down to, it's the same thingwith hormones you put your
hormones back where you werewhen you were 30, you put your

(01:18:26):
metabolism back when you were 30, you're going to move and
you're going to act and behavelike a 30 year old and you're
going to feel good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
You're going to dress well, you're going to eat well,
you're going.
You know you're going to dohealthy things, you hang around
right People, you're going toget yourself in a mental
situation.
It's like a snowball effect,you know.
Yeah, it's like when I wentvegan.
Oh, you went, you went, youwent vegan.
Well, yeah, I went vegan as atest.
I saw a lot of aging athletesdoing it.

(01:18:54):
I went vegan as a test.
I saw a lot of aging athletesdoing it.
What part of the vegan diet mademe able to to run three times
further?
Now, what part of it?
I have no idea.
It's a multiple of things.
What was it?
Was it the steak that wasbothering me?
Was it?
Was it the milk?
What was it?
I had no idea because I changedeverything.
Yeah, but if I would have doneone at a time it's little things

(01:19:15):
it might have been the steakand milk, or it might have been
the gluten, it might have beenthis, it might have been this.
So, every little thing we doeating correctly, stop smoking,
to exercise regularly at a lowintensity, to lifting weights to
get that muscle little extrathing we do, you know listen to

(01:19:37):
podcasts, motivational thingsyeah dedicate yourself to.
You know half an hour of readingand inspirational stuff.
You know every little thing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
It really does yeah, and I used to have this
philosophy, like every turn,every extra, like you put your
arm in a cast in three weeks, oryou know, you take off the cast
, your arm is a rail, it's superskinny, and so that's not that
long of a time.
And so I used to always thinkabout that when I was a gymnast
and I thought, well, if I'mlosing this that fast, if I

(01:20:10):
potentially am, if I'm totallyimmobile, well that means that
every extra little turn or drillor anything that I do is adding
, even if I can't see it, evenif I can't feel it.
It is adding positively.
Now, obviously without burningyourself out or redlining
yourself and all that jazz, butman this has been um, this has

(01:20:33):
been a real fun.
Man, I cannot wait to work withyou.
What I'm going to do is I'llrelease the podcast before then,
but I'm going to post and evenmake a separate video of my
whole process of working withyou, because I know this stuff
can be confusing.
I know it can be like oh, I gotto go get tested and I got to

(01:20:54):
do this, I got to do that.
But I really want to try toopen up a window for someone to
be able to like ah, okay, I seeit and I see this guy's results
and I see what he did and I seethe testing process and and now
they know who you are.
How do they find you and workwith you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
My website's well, go to O2max, so it's a little
oxygen into maxca, and you'll beable to find me and access me.
You'll be able to see onInstagram Breathing Coach Jill
and you'll be able to access methat way On LinkedIn.
You know Jill Esiam, you mightput that on your podcast, yeah,

(01:21:35):
and definitely ask me anyquestions too, right?
Anything you have, we'renoticing.
I want to leave you with thisis when you hear from a doctor
or anybody that tells you itcan't be done, or you have this
condition or this, and that youtake their recommendation but go

(01:22:01):
do your homework.
Don't, don't let anybody tellyou that you won't be able to do
that again, you'll never beable to throw a ball again with
that type of injury, or or I'llshow you.
Uh, I did, uh, I went.
I went snowboarding.
I'd been snowboarding for 30years, 33 years, and I broke.
I had a spiral fracture.

(01:22:21):
The doctor said it was like youwere on a motorcycle and you
hit a telephone pole.
It was that bad of an injury.
So it basically my whole armjust shattered, and all the way
from the head neck my wholeshoulder, just oh, and so they
took 17 screws and a plate andput it back together for me and

(01:22:45):
this was, uh, well, it's goingto be one, uh, one year next
week and they said this was inthe.
You know we we'll call it April1st.
I met the doctor and I said,listen, I've been training for
it's 115 kilometers.
How many miles would that be?
80 miles, 80 miles, 80 miles,about An 80-mile run in the

(01:23:08):
biggest mountains in Canadabesides the Rocky Mountains.
It was going to be prettygruesome, about 15,000 feet of
elevation and you name it.
It was going to be prettygruesome, about 15,000 feet of
elevation and you name it.
It was going to be gruesome.
I said I've been training hardfor this.
He says, son, you're done,you're not doing that this year.
And this is April 1st.
And I was like, oh no, so I hadthat surgery right around April

(01:23:31):
1st.
I said, okay, so the first threeweeks didn't do anything.
The fourth week you can see iton my app I started running.
I took my arm, I duct tapedmyself all around.
People thought it was a littlecrazy.
I was in a sling and full ofduct tape.

(01:23:53):
I was in a sling and full ofduct tape and I went for my
first run.
All this to say it started offby yes, it hurt, it was jiggling
around, you could feel thebones and stuff Not recommended.
Started going to the gym.
As soon as I was able to bend Iwould hold a two and a half

(01:24:19):
pound and I would train theother side and just kept going,
kept going.
He'd tell me, don't go overfive pounds.
Yo, I'd go to 10, I'd push justthe limits and, you know,
started getting my mobility back, the strength back, and by
september I think it wasseptember 5th, uh, I ran 115
kilometers and I was actually intop five for the longest time.

(01:24:40):
Then I got lost in the mountain.
They found me on top of themountain.
I didn't belong so it was likeit was about a mile and almost a
mile, mile and a half offcourse.
But uh, but guess what?
I finished it.
You know it took me 19 hours todo the 80 miles and the
wilderness, but I finished it.
So the moral of the story isthat you know I did hyperbaric.

(01:25:03):
You know I remember the storyyou told me right, all the stuff
that you did to get yourselfaway from an injury.
I can't remember quite thestory, but I did hyperbaric
chamber I can't remember quitethe story, but I did hyperbaric
chamber, I did red light therapy, you know, and sauna, pemf and
strength training, and continueddoing the cardio because

(01:25:23):
continuing the blood flow I mustsay, though this will belong in
another story but for at leasteight months, jogging the right
arm would do you know, becauseyou're jogging like this would
spit out like sweat.
It's really weird that the bodywas detoxing for about eight

(01:25:44):
months it was sweating so much.
It was the right side.
It would always be like a trackof sweat in the same direction
as the treadmill.
That's another story that youand I should talk.
Was that my body sweating anddetoxing all these metal things
in my body?
Wow, you and I are going totalk about that some other time,

(01:26:04):
because that was really cool.
It finally stopped, you know, afew months ago.
But anyway, the moral of thestory is we listen to what our
doctors have to say and do yourresearch and work hard and don't
let cancer or diseases oranything stop you.
You can reverse some diseases.
You can take your life back inyour hands, kind of like what we

(01:26:28):
said a while ago don't let thebreath control your brain.
Let your brain control yourbreath, same as any disease we
get take control of your life.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Yeah, that that's my advice to anybody that's
listening to this podcast right,well, I think you're like that
yeah, and and if someone's outthere listening to that and they
need to hear this, you know?
Um, yeah, I completely agreewith you.
Once the doctor says something,you can't do something, I it it
, you don't.

(01:26:59):
If you know, if you just hadsurgery and like I tore my
achilles at one point, you know,like it doesn't yeah, yeah,
don't go running the next day onit, but don't let somebody tell
you you're never going to beable to do x or y or z again.
That's bullshit.
I don't care what you say, I'lldo it because I I choose to do
it and people so easily throwaround limitations on you and

(01:27:21):
the short towel doctor said thisdone yeah.
so it's yeah.
I appreciate you saying that,and that's one of the reasons
why I even get on this podcastand do this is because it's the
stories that people have.
It's not just the knowledge,which is great, but it's the
reason why you're doing it, andit's the thing that makes you

(01:27:42):
tick, and it's also thesevaluable lessons that all these
people like yourself have shared.
That really, at the end of theday, that's the thing when I go
to some event, and it's got allthese people that are in this
new health space coming together.
They all have some interesting,powerful story that happened to

(01:28:04):
them, or a loved one orsomething, and that is the glue
that holds us all together andmakes it really, really special
to be in the company of eachother.
And so I hugely appreciate you,jill, and I just think it's a
real blessing to have met you.
I can't wait to work with you.
I can't wait to get youintegrated with this new

(01:28:26):
business I'm doing, which I'lltalk about later.
And, yeah, thank you so muchfor sharing your time.
Did we miss anything?
I think we got a pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
Yeah, I knew that you and I would get talking.
We would.
I don't know where we're.
I'm.
I can't wait to listen to theat the podcast.
It's going to be uh.
You know I think working withyou uh is going to be fantastic.
You know, because, again, Ispecialize in this.
I I want to know more aboutpeptides and and different you
know different supplements.
You know I I just startedtaking his supplements and I

(01:28:59):
want to know why my heart rate.
Now I have a hard time gettingzone two creatine.
You know creatine?
I thought creatine was for forpower, but why is it?
It's fueling, it's puttingwater inside my muscle cells and
maybe it's calming everythingdown.
But let's just, I I've neverresearched it yet, but something
I want to actually uh reach outto you and go wow, I'm having a

(01:29:20):
hard time I I have to run somuch faster now to be in zone
two yeah, it sounds like you'regetting some efficiency out of
that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Well, we'll definitely.
We'll definitely get a talk andwe'll probably have you back on
at some point in time, and Ireally appreciate it and for
everyone out there that'slistening, thank you so much for
tuning into the Steve McCainpodcast and you can find
everything you want.
On Jill, how do you say, how doyou say, your last name?

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
Jill, essiam, essiam, okay, so I don't want to
pronounce the D-R-E, and youknow what?
Yeah, I don't even know if Isay it correctly.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Well then, that's good Cause.
Then you won't be too hard onpeople that butcher it.
But go to his website, o2maxca,and check him out and try his
protocol.
Or, if you have questions,reach out to him on LinkedIn.
I'll include links to everysingle thing in the show notes.
We'll make it tostephenmccaincom backslash,

(01:30:17):
vo2max and Jill.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me, Stephen.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
I appreciate it.
I look forward to more chatstogether.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
Absolutely.
Thanks everyone for tuning inand we'll catch you on the next
one.
Cheers.

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