August 28, 2025 • 20 mins
Stop the costly cycle of hiring and retraining. The “grass is greener”' mentality destroys law firms by driving constant turnover and training costs.
Most retention problems stem from poor performance management and a lack of systematic employee development frameworks. This episode reveals the accountability system we used at Sterling Lawyers to build long-term team commitment through structured goal-setting, regular coaching check-ins, and clear career development pathways that transformed our culture and fueled our growth to a 32-attorney team.
You'll also learn why job-hopping indicates deeper performance issues and how intentional leadership development creates the foundation for sustainable firm growth.
📲 Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/@karls.anthony
📝 Schedule a FREE Family Law Firm Audit: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
---
📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Staff Retention: Why Your Team Keeps Leaving
2:31 - The Escapism Problem: When Staff Blame Everything But Performance
6:17 - Job Hopping Pattern Recognition: What Resumes Really Tell You
8:34 - Poor Performance Fuels The Urge To Leave: The Real Problem
14:44 - Goal-Setting Framework: Building Accountability Culture That Works
17:22 - Three-Year Development Plans: Creating Clear Career Pathways
----------------------
Ready to find the accountability partner you need to build your dream family law firm the same way we grew Sterling Lawyers?
Follow these steps:
1. SUBSCRIBE TO JEFF'S NEWSLETTER: https://jsterlinghughes.com/
2. BOOK A FREE 30-MINUTE AUDIT WITH US: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
3. CONNECT WITH US:
LinkedIn: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls,
Facebook: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls,
Instagram: Jeff Hughes, Tyler Dolph, & Anthony Karls
4. TELL US WHAT YOU WANT:
Tell us in the comments if you liked this episode and what other kinds of episodes you would like to see.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are your intake specialists always chasing the
next best thing?
Are you tired of rehiring andretraining because they think
the grass is always greener?
This episode is for you.
I am Tyler Dolph, ceo of ouragency, rocketclicks.
It is a digital advertisingagency solely focused on helping
(00:21):
family law firms generate moreleads and turn those leads into
revenue, and with me today isAnthony Carls.
He is the president of ouragency and also the co-founder
of our law firm, sterlingLawyers, which has grown to over
32 family law attorneys.
In this episode we're talkingabout the myth of job hopping in
(00:41):
a law firm, why this happens,why the whole grass is greener
theory is wrong, and what lawfirm leaders can do to protect
their team from chasingillusions instead of building
success where they are.
I really hope you enjoy it.
I think we've talked about thisa lot internally at both our
(01:02):
law firm and our agency, whereyou know, maybe you have a
younger team member and they getsome recruiter reaching out to
them and you know they hop overto some new company with the
thought that it's going to bethe greatest thing ever, only to
realize maybe it's not, maybeit's not as great.
So today we're going to talkthrough kind of five ideologies
(01:24):
or theories as it relates togreener pastures, tony, the
first one being that the greenerpastures mentality is often
just skepticism.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, it's usually escapism, like how do you escape
from your current reality andkind of not deal with what's in
front of you, and kind ofbecause oftentimes there's like
there's always.
There's always two sides toevery situation right and
oftentimes we especially intoday's culture, we overly
(01:59):
become victims and like ourcondition to believe victim
mentality is okay and we kind ofhave a lot of self-talk.
That's really not healthy.
And, um, what ends up happeningis we kind of get sold by a
greener pasture and the realityis like all the problems I have
(02:19):
today they're going to come withme to that new place.
Um, and I really just need Ineed to deal with me.
I need to deal with me and likefigure out what's holding me
back and understand, like whyI'm not successful, versus
blaming the situation or theboss or manager or whatever as
(02:40):
the problem.
And there there might be likethere's always legitimate
circumstances.
There that's the problem andthere might be Like there's
always legitimate circumstancesthere.
But we see this a lot inrecruiting, where you see a
job-hopping resume and, like youknow we're talking sales
primarily in this series, butthis happens with all team
members.
This is not just a sales thing.
(03:00):
We've seen this with attorneys.
We joked recently, jeff Hughesand I about um one of our first.
She was her first, third hire,maybe fourth hire, I can't
remember what number, but shejoined.
We looked at her resume.
Then she had bounced around.
(03:21):
She had like three differentjobs four years.
Each time she was with us forfour years she then went
somewhere else.
She was done with them for fouryears.
Now she's somewhere else, kindof followed it, and it's like
that pattern that it shows upand it's just interesting
because it's it's from our, frommy perspective, my experience.
(03:43):
It's detrimental to long-termimpact and growth and earning
potential.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I think it probably followsculture.
You look back at our parentsand especially our grandparents.
They were in their job for 20,30 years.
They retired at their first jobor maybe their second job.
Definitely not the cultureanymore.
The culture, today'senvironment is go to a place,
hired at their first job ormaybe their second job.
That's definitely not theculture anymore.
The culture, today'senvironment is go to a place you
(04:12):
try and use it as a launch padfor whatever's next and just try
and get that raise or get thatnext salary bump, job after job.
But I think to your point.
The problem there is you're notactually developing any solid
skills.
You're not leveling up as anindividual, even if, hey, you're
getting paid a little bit moreeach time.
There's gotta be a ceilingthere.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, yeah for sure, and I think it's.
I think oftentimes in thesecircumstances you see people
that will jump around and likecontinue to jump and climb a
ladder, and those are slightlydifferent circumstances, but
what you'll see more oftenthat's like a, that's a.
Those are what I would callspecial cases.
More often you'll see the sameexact title over and over and
(04:56):
over again at a whole bunch ofdifferent places, and really
what that should be anindication is poor performance,
and it's like it's really anopportunity for reflection, Like
something about what I'm doingisn't working, because now the
common thread is like I'm inthis role continuously.
I'm not progressing in thisrole ever.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Like I've always been an intake specialist at now for
law firms, right, exactly, yeah, that's, that's fascinating,
and the, to me, the solve is isbuilding a great culture, being
able to grow and develop yourteam members, uh, you know, but
there's, there's just this um,it's, it's sad, there's just a
(05:36):
culture of I think it's going tobe better somewhere else,
without looking internally yeah,I mean, I think what's really
important on this you know we dotalk about with our sales team,
we do it with our all team.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
If you're not constantly trying to train and
develop new skills, like you're,you're probably doing it wrong,
like there's something off,because if you're not actually
trying to get better, otherpeople are, they're passing you
up.
So, like that's, you know, in aculture where you are doing
(06:09):
that, you require that of yourteam.
Everybody grows, but those thatdon't really want to be a part
of that, they'll, they'll oftenleave and the reality is like
they leave because they don'twant to develop, they want to
just be here, be comfortable.
I just want to do my nine tofive.
I want to just punch in andpunch out.
I don't really want to invest,I don't want to get better.
(06:31):
I went to school, for you know,I went to high school and I went
to college and then I went tolaw school and I just want to do
this now, don't bother me.
It's like, okay, that's thebest you now are and you're
gonna.
You just it's.
You know, often that leads topoor performance and people then
(06:52):
want to leave because thesituation is, the situation
isn't working out, quote,unquote and reality is like
you're not.
You're not changing.
Ai's gonna change the worldforever for all of us, are you
not?
If you're not using AI rightnow, don't be surprised when the
world changes and you'refrustrated.
But that's on you.
That's not AI's fault.
(07:13):
It's a tool.
If you don't, use the tool.
You're going to be left behind.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
And someone's probably going to have to tell
you that.
I think that our second pointhere is that poor performance
fuels the urge to leave right.
So let's say that you haven'tbeen growing and developing as
an individual, as an intakespecialist or in a sales role or
whatever it is Well then,someone's going to have to give
you that perspective at somepoint.
You know, some boss, somemanager is going to say listen,
(07:41):
you're not performing, you'renot doing what you need to be
doing, and in that moment it'sfight or flight.
It's okay, I'm going to doubledown and get better or no.
This isn't for me.
My boss is mean, you know, Ibetter find something else.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, we found that it's like all it's all roles.
It's an intake role.
We've had it with attorneys,We've had it here at the agency
with different roles.
You know when you when you havea coach that actually cares,
gives critical feedback becausethey want that person to develop
into like what they've saidthey want to develop into Like
if you tell me you want to bethe greatest CEO in the world,
(08:16):
when I tell you all your flawsand you decide that you're like
I can't do this, this team sucks, they don't know how to grow,
they don't know whatever.
That's a you problem, becauseyou're going to complain about
the opportunity, you're going tocomplain about the team, you're
(08:36):
going to complain about allthis stuff, and that's typically
what what we end up seeing isthat it's typically poor
performance, or I want to pushthis person to continue to grow
and it's like, uh, I don't wantthat.
I don't want to grow, I don'twant to get better, and really,
what your coach and your, yourboss, is saying maybe not
directly, maybe not as clearlyas you want to hear it is I
(08:59):
don't want you to get passed up,I don't want you to lose this
opportunity.
I don't want you know the nextbest person to come in and to
take your job.
So I want you to continuegrowing, I want you to be here,
I want you to grow, I want youto achieve your goals that
you've told me.
So I just think it's reallyimportant.
I mean%.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I mean this is you see this everywhere, not just in
business but in sports, rightwhen a poor performer is either
going to double down and step upor they're going to complain
and whine and go to the pressand demand a trade.
Yeah, exactly.
So our third point is more onthe other side of the fence.
You know, when you're hiringsomeone and you kind of
(09:37):
mentioned this a little bitearlier is that frequent job
changes actually hurt yourlong-term earning kind of
maximization.
You know the short term mayhelp you, right, it may.
Changing jobs, you may get thatpay bump, but over time, if
you're really looking tomaximize your earning potential,
it's actually going to hurt you.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, I think it was especially true in the legal
space with attorneys, becausewhat a current firm owner is
looking for is someone that'sgoing to come in and they want
to grow this business, they wantto grow this firm.
They want to see that over aseason of time that's not
insignificant.
They want to see that over aseason of time that's not
(10:19):
insignificant.
And that's where you know,becoming a potential income
partner or becoming an equitypartner in a firm, that's where
it comes from.
It comes from that long-terminvestment, long-term side
equity, long-term investment oftime.
It comes from that Obviouslygood performance as well, but
like you may you may not be thetop performer, but you may be
(10:42):
consistently like top, the third, third or fourth best person in
a firm of you know, whateversize and but you're always there
, you always show up.
You always have a greatattitude.
You're always helping the teamget better.
You're always doing all thethings that actually make the
business work.
That you always have a greatattitude.
You're always helping the teamget better.
You're always doing all thethings that actually make the
business work.
That's the person that's goingto get the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
It's so rare and we see this both at our own firm
and with our clients' firms theydon't ever bring in.
Oh, I'm going to bring in anequity partner tomorrow.
It's no.
This person's been here foreight years.
They've been consistent and nowwe've promoted them to an
equity partner.
Let's have a celebration.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, yeah.
So I think it definitely, likeyou said, it can help in the
short term, but I think on abigger scale it definitely
damages long-term earningpotential 100%.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
The fourth point we're thinking about is the idea
of focus.
Okay, that if you can beconsistent, if you can focus on
growth, you are going to win inthe long run.
And again back to just thecultural norms right, everybody
wants instant gratification.
They want it now, they want ityesterday.
But that's not how life works,it's not how business works,
(11:55):
it's not how law firms work, andso being able to be consistent
and stay focused has got to bethe key right.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, and I would.
If you know we've.
We saw our growth at Sterlingreally explode when we got
focused, and it's because whatended up happening is all of us
started getting reps on theexact same thing over and over
and over again and you know youwork.
The rule of 10,000 hours comesinto play and the closer you get
(12:22):
to that with all of thedifferent skills that you need,
because you're staying focused.
You're staying in the sameindustry, you're staying in the
same type of role, but you'releveling up your skills.
You become the expert.
You then learn leadershipskills.
You then can start mentoring.
You then really start to seeyour responsibilities expand and
(12:42):
grow skills.
You look and start mentoringyou so then really start to see
your responsibilities expand andgrow.
And it's because you stayfocused in the long run about
where you are, what your path is.
You're not looking for somethingnext week.
That's often uh, especiallywith with younger folks um, you
know, we want, um, instantgratification, like we, a lot of
us, have been conditioned nowwith cell phones and social
(13:04):
media to like chase the instantgratification of that.
Or even even Amazon, even youknow, instacart you can order
what.
I just saw an email comethrough from my wife.
She put in an Instacart orderfrom Costco and it's going to
get delivered to our door Likeit's all instant gratification
now Right.
So it's going to get deliveredto our door Like it's all
(13:25):
instant gratification now Right.
So it's hard to like in thereal world when I got to build
and stack skills over a timeperiod.
It's hard to like disconnectfrom the everything should
happen today type world we livein.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
What you know?
Final point what do we do aboutit?
What can we do as leaders ofbusinesses and law firms to be
able to kind of curb this trend?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
law firm owners, especially to start with them,
and then work with your mostinfluential team members and
then work with your whole teamon setting up personal,
professional, financial goals ona one, three and five year time
horizon and then bring thoseinto coaching.
Like the team member will feellike you care about what they're
trying to accomplish in theirwhole life and you'll.
You'll then have theopportunity to hold them
accountable to those goals.
(14:23):
You told me you want X.
How are we doing on X?
You know one of my goals forthis year is.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I want to.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I feel like I'm not.
I'm no longer in this period ofmy life where I want to be a
bodybuilder Like I want to get.
I've been at 275 for about fiveyears.
I've bulked up a ton.
I want to get my weight down.
I don't want to lose lots ofmuscle mass, but like I want to,
I want to get down.
So I track it.
It's on my PPF goals.
(14:53):
It's something that I writedown every single morning in my
notes.
So you know you create a culturelike that, you create
accountability and you start tosee things happen and oftentimes
you know that may be the firsttime someone's actually invested
in them.
Like, if you're running a lawfirm, it's very likely they've
(15:17):
never had a boss actually askthem what their goals are Like.
That won't be a surprise.
It'll be a surprise to the teammember.
You might be surprised in thatexperience because nobody's
probably asked them and thenactually had them present.
It actually had them holdaccountable and we're going to
talk about these every two weeksand then we're going to develop
(15:40):
a development plan for the nextyear about how you're going to
work towards these goals and itjust changes the game.
It helps the team members seewhere their future could be, you
know, especially with ourmarquee team members here at
Rocket Clicks.
You know I want all of them tohave like very clear, very clear
.
Here are my next three moves.
(16:01):
Like I need to develop X, y, x,y and z.
This is what it's going to meanfor me from a title change.
Here's what it's going to meanfor me a comp change and this is
what we're going to be talkingabout.
And once I do that, here's thenext one.
And once I do that, here's thenext one.
And like I can see, like okay,like here's my next three years
of development.
Like I know I'm going to growhere and that's going to be
really rare and that can reallyhelp curb the job hopping,
(16:24):
create accountability, create aculture of growth.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I think all that's really important yeah, I mean,
if you're listening to this,this is not just theory like we
have spent so much time andenergy in building this goal or
in orientated culture, and it's.
It hasn't been easy and youknow, some team members haven't
haven't enjoyed theaccountability of like, hey, if
you write down your goals, we'regoing to hold you accountable
(16:48):
to them and we're going to talkto you about them.
And so if you're listening tothis and you want to implement
this, know that it's going to bebumpy and it's going to take
time to really shift yourculture to more of one focused
on growth and development, butit is so worth it.
It is so gratifying as a leaderto watch your team level up and
(17:12):
achieve goals that maybe theydidn't even think were possible
when they wrote them down.
So it is a hundred percentworth it.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's.
It's a small thing and it'seasily overlooked, but as a
business owner, you know thething that you care, the thing
that keeps you up at night islike I got payroll to run in two
weeks.
I got a lifestyle that Icreated for my family.
I want to.
I want to make sure thatcontinues.
That's really stressful.
(17:42):
What that business owner reallywants is someone that is on
their team, that continues tohit their goals.
They see that over time becausethen they can trust them, and
now that's how partnerships getcreated.
It's actually how long-termearning potential grows, Because
now they see, it's not justlike raising my hand and saying
(18:04):
I want this, I want this, I wantthis, but I'm not willing to do
anything for it.
It's I want this.
What do you want from me?
Here's what I've done.
Here's how I've continued tosupport you.
Here's how we're bothcontinuing to grow.
You just see it.
It's just a different.
It's a different approach andit takes time.
I think that's part of thebiggest issue.
It's like gotta be patient.
(18:25):
You just gotta invest.
Like sometimes I thinkoftentimes in success people
quit right before they're at thefinish line.
You're like the day away fromyeah, like 95 yards down the
field and you're like five yardsaway from the goal and you're
like, oh, screw it, we're done,we're gonna quit.
(18:46):
It's like, why are we quitting?
Like you're so close, likeyou've been working on all of
this and like you, you're givingup on yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Like, don't give up on yourself yeah, well, that's I
think that's the beauty of theaccountability piece is that,
even if you give up on yourself,your team member, your coach,
your manager is here to.
If you give up on yourself,your team member, your coach,
your manager is here to not giveup on you.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, yeah, and help raise your belief fluid, like I
think that's part of the problem, like you have.
You have, you know you havereally good individual
contributors that want to keepgoing and basically you're going
to give them skills they're not.
You're going to ask them todevelop skills they're not good
at.
And what becomes hard is thatteam member is an a plus in a
(19:26):
bunch of different things andyou said I want you to, I want
you to grow here.
You're a c at this and weforget what it took to become an
a plus over here because we'realready there.
We forgot all the pain that allhappened in the past.
We would do the same thing withthis c plus skill get that up
and like where we, where.
You see, that is like thefrustration of the, that growth,
(19:48):
because it's hard and it's notlinear, it's like it's almost
like secular and you go forward,one step forward, two steps,
one step backwards.
Forward, two steps, one stepbackwards and like that's how it
should feel, that's how it'sgoing to feel.
Um, so being patient with it,getting in that season and just
kind of enjoying the process iskind of probably the biggest
(20:10):
piece of advice I can give hell,yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
This is so good.
I'm like just jacked upthinking about all the things
we've done and and the journeythat it's it's taken to get
there.
If you loved this episode onthe Grass Is Always Greener
Theory, you will love thisentire series that we're doing
on sales in a law firm.
But specifically, you'll lovethe next episode, which you can
find right here, which is all onthe commitment it takes to
(20:37):
succeed in law firm sales.
We're diving into what realcommitment looks like and how to
build it into your salesculture.
Make sure to check it out andwe will see you there.
Are your intake specialists always chasing the
next best thing?
Are you tired of rehiring andretraining because they think
the grass is always greener?
This episode is for you.
I am Tyler Dolph, ceo of ouragency, rocketclicks.
It is a digital advertisingagency solely focused on helping
(00:21):
family law firms generate moreleads and turn those leads into
revenue, and with me today isAnthony Carls.
He is the president of ouragency and also the co-founder
of our law firm, sterlingLawyers, which has grown to over
32 family law attorneys.
In this episode we're talkingabout the myth of job hopping in
(00:41):
a law firm, why this happens,why the whole grass is greener
theory is wrong, and what lawfirm leaders can do to protect
their team from chasingillusions instead of building
success where they are.
I really hope you enjoy it.
I think we've talked about thisa lot internally at both our
(01:02):
law firm and our agency, whereyou know, maybe you have a
younger team member and they getsome recruiter reaching out to
them and you know they hop overto some new company with the
thought that it's going to bethe greatest thing ever, only to
realize maybe it's not, maybeit's not as great.
So today we're going to talkthrough kind of five ideologies
(01:24):
or theories as it relates togreener pastures, tony, the
first one being that the greenerpastures mentality is often
just skepticism.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, it's usually escapism, like how do you escape
from your current reality andkind of not deal with what's in
front of you, and kind ofbecause oftentimes there's like
there's always.
There's always two sides toevery situation right and
oftentimes we especially intoday's culture, we overly
(01:59):
become victims and like ourcondition to believe victim
mentality is okay and we kind ofhave a lot of self-talk.
That's really not healthy.
And, um, what ends up happeningis we kind of get sold by a
greener pasture and the realityis like all the problems I have
(02:19):
today they're going to come withme to that new place.
Um, and I really just need Ineed to deal with me.
I need to deal with me and likefigure out what's holding me
back and understand, like whyI'm not successful, versus
blaming the situation or theboss or manager or whatever as
(02:40):
the problem.
And there there might be likethere's always legitimate
circumstances.
There that's the problem andthere might be Like there's
always legitimate circumstancesthere.
But we see this a lot inrecruiting, where you see a
job-hopping resume and, like youknow we're talking sales
primarily in this series, butthis happens with all team
members.
This is not just a sales thing.
(03:00):
We've seen this with attorneys.
We joked recently, jeff Hughesand I about um one of our first.
She was her first, third hire,maybe fourth hire, I can't
remember what number, but shejoined.
We looked at her resume.
Then she had bounced around.
(03:21):
She had like three differentjobs four years.
Each time she was with us forfour years she then went
somewhere else.
She was done with them for fouryears.
Now she's somewhere else, kindof followed it, and it's like
that pattern that it shows upand it's just interesting
because it's it's from our, frommy perspective, my experience.
(03:43):
It's detrimental to long-termimpact and growth and earning
potential.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I think it probably followsculture.
You look back at our parentsand especially our grandparents.
They were in their job for 20,30 years.
They retired at their first jobor maybe their second job.
Definitely not the cultureanymore.
The culture, today'senvironment is go to a place,
hired at their first job ormaybe their second job.
That's definitely not theculture anymore.
The culture, today'senvironment is go to a place you
(04:12):
try and use it as a launch padfor whatever's next and just try
and get that raise or get thatnext salary bump, job after job.
But I think to your point.
The problem there is you're notactually developing any solid
skills.
You're not leveling up as anindividual, even if, hey, you're
getting paid a little bit moreeach time.
There's gotta be a ceilingthere.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, yeah for sure, and I think it's.
I think oftentimes in thesecircumstances you see people
that will jump around and likecontinue to jump and climb a
ladder, and those are slightlydifferent circumstances, but
what you'll see more oftenthat's like a, that's a.
Those are what I would callspecial cases.
More often you'll see the sameexact title over and over and
(04:56):
over again at a whole bunch ofdifferent places, and really
what that should be anindication is poor performance,
and it's like it's really anopportunity for reflection, Like
something about what I'm doingisn't working, because now the
common thread is like I'm inthis role continuously.
I'm not progressing in thisrole ever.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Like I've always been an intake specialist at now for
law firms, right, exactly, yeah, that's, that's fascinating,
and the, to me, the solve is isbuilding a great culture, being
able to grow and develop yourteam members, uh, you know, but
there's, there's just this um,it's, it's sad, there's just a
(05:36):
culture of I think it's going tobe better somewhere else,
without looking internally yeah,I mean, I think what's really
important on this you know we dotalk about with our sales team,
we do it with our all team.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
If you're not constantly trying to train and
develop new skills, like you're,you're probably doing it wrong,
like there's something off,because if you're not actually
trying to get better, otherpeople are, they're passing you
up.
So, like that's, you know, in aculture where you are doing
(06:09):
that, you require that of yourteam.
Everybody grows, but those thatdon't really want to be a part
of that, they'll, they'll oftenleave and the reality is like
they leave because they don'twant to develop, they want to
just be here, be comfortable.
I just want to do my nine tofive.
I want to just punch in andpunch out.
I don't really want to invest,I don't want to get better.
(06:31):
I went to school, for you know,I went to high school and I went
to college and then I went tolaw school and I just want to do
this now, don't bother me.
It's like, okay, that's thebest you now are and you're
gonna.
You just it's.
You know, often that leads topoor performance and people then
(06:52):
want to leave because thesituation is, the situation
isn't working out, quote,unquote and reality is like
you're not.
You're not changing.
Ai's gonna change the worldforever for all of us, are you
not?
If you're not using AI rightnow, don't be surprised when the
world changes and you'refrustrated.
But that's on you.
That's not AI's fault.
(07:13):
It's a tool.
If you don't, use the tool.
You're going to be left behind.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
And someone's probably going to have to tell
you that.
I think that our second pointhere is that poor performance
fuels the urge to leave right.
So let's say that you haven'tbeen growing and developing as
an individual, as an intakespecialist or in a sales role or
whatever it is Well then,someone's going to have to give
you that perspective at somepoint.
You know, some boss, somemanager is going to say listen,
(07:41):
you're not performing, you'renot doing what you need to be
doing, and in that moment it'sfight or flight.
It's okay, I'm going to doubledown and get better or no.
This isn't for me.
My boss is mean, you know, Ibetter find something else.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, we found that it's like all it's all roles.
It's an intake role.
We've had it with attorneys,We've had it here at the agency
with different roles.
You know when you when you havea coach that actually cares,
gives critical feedback becausethey want that person to develop
into like what they've saidthey want to develop into Like
if you tell me you want to bethe greatest CEO in the world,
(08:16):
when I tell you all your flawsand you decide that you're like
I can't do this, this team sucks, they don't know how to grow,
they don't know whatever.
That's a you problem, becauseyou're going to complain about
the opportunity, you're going tocomplain about the team, you're
(08:36):
going to complain about allthis stuff, and that's typically
what what we end up seeing isthat it's typically poor
performance, or I want to pushthis person to continue to grow
and it's like, uh, I don't wantthat.
I don't want to grow, I don'twant to get better, and really,
what your coach and your, yourboss, is saying maybe not
directly, maybe not as clearlyas you want to hear it is I
(08:59):
don't want you to get passed up,I don't want you to lose this
opportunity.
I don't want you know the nextbest person to come in and to
take your job.
So I want you to continuegrowing, I want you to be here,
I want you to grow, I want youto achieve your goals that
you've told me.
So I just think it's reallyimportant.
I mean%.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I mean this is you see this everywhere, not just in
business but in sports, rightwhen a poor performer is either
going to double down and step upor they're going to complain
and whine and go to the pressand demand a trade.
Yeah, exactly.
So our third point is more onthe other side of the fence.
You know, when you're hiringsomeone and you kind of
(09:37):
mentioned this a little bitearlier is that frequent job
changes actually hurt yourlong-term earning kind of
maximization.
You know the short term mayhelp you, right, it may.
Changing jobs, you may get thatpay bump, but over time, if
you're really looking tomaximize your earning potential,
it's actually going to hurt you.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, I think it was especially true in the legal
space with attorneys, becausewhat a current firm owner is
looking for is someone that'sgoing to come in and they want
to grow this business, they wantto grow this firm.
They want to see that over aseason of time that's not
insignificant.
They want to see that over aseason of time that's not
(10:19):
insignificant.
And that's where you know,becoming a potential income
partner or becoming an equitypartner in a firm, that's where
it comes from.
It comes from that long-terminvestment, long-term side
equity, long-term investment oftime.
It comes from that Obviouslygood performance as well, but
like you may you may not be thetop performer, but you may be
(10:42):
consistently like top, the third, third or fourth best person in
a firm of you know, whateversize and but you're always there
, you always show up.
You always have a greatattitude.
You're always helping the teamget better.
You're always doing all thethings that actually make the
business work.
That you always have a greatattitude.
You're always helping the teamget better.
You're always doing all thethings that actually make the
business work.
That's the person that's goingto get the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
It's so rare and we see this both at our own firm
and with our clients' firms theydon't ever bring in.
Oh, I'm going to bring in anequity partner tomorrow.
It's no.
This person's been here foreight years.
They've been consistent and nowwe've promoted them to an
equity partner.
Let's have a celebration.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, yeah.
So I think it definitely, likeyou said, it can help in the
short term, but I think on abigger scale it definitely
damages long-term earningpotential 100%.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
The fourth point we're thinking about is the idea
of focus.
Okay, that if you can beconsistent, if you can focus on
growth, you are going to win inthe long run.
And again back to just thecultural norms right, everybody
wants instant gratification.
They want it now, they want ityesterday.
But that's not how life works,it's not how business works,
(11:55):
it's not how law firms work, andso being able to be consistent
and stay focused has got to bethe key right.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, and I would.
If you know we've.
We saw our growth at Sterlingreally explode when we got
focused, and it's because whatended up happening is all of us
started getting reps on theexact same thing over and over
and over again and you know youwork.
The rule of 10,000 hours comesinto play and the closer you get
(12:22):
to that with all of thedifferent skills that you need,
because you're staying focused.
You're staying in the sameindustry, you're staying in the
same type of role, but you'releveling up your skills.
You become the expert.
You then learn leadershipskills.
You then can start mentoring.
You then really start to seeyour responsibilities expand and
(12:42):
grow skills.
You look and start mentoringyou so then really start to see
your responsibilities expand andgrow.
And it's because you stayfocused in the long run about
where you are, what your path is.
You're not looking for somethingnext week.
That's often uh, especiallywith with younger folks um, you
know, we want, um, instantgratification, like we, a lot of
us, have been conditioned nowwith cell phones and social
(13:04):
media to like chase the instantgratification of that.
Or even even Amazon, even youknow, instacart you can order
what.
I just saw an email comethrough from my wife.
She put in an Instacart orderfrom Costco and it's going to
get delivered to our door Likeit's all instant gratification
now Right.
So it's going to get deliveredto our door Like it's all
(13:25):
instant gratification now Right.
So it's hard to like in thereal world when I got to build
and stack skills over a timeperiod.
It's hard to like disconnectfrom the everything should
happen today type world we livein.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
What you know?
Final point what do we do aboutit?
What can we do as leaders ofbusinesses and law firms to be
able to kind of curb this trend?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
law firm owners, especially to start with them,
and then work with your mostinfluential team members and
then work with your whole teamon setting up personal,
professional, financial goals ona one, three and five year time
horizon and then bring thoseinto coaching.
Like the team member will feellike you care about what they're
trying to accomplish in theirwhole life and you'll.
You'll then have theopportunity to hold them
accountable to those goals.
(14:23):
You told me you want X.
How are we doing on X?
You know one of my goals forthis year is.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I want to.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I feel like I'm not.
I'm no longer in this period ofmy life where I want to be a
bodybuilder Like I want to get.
I've been at 275 for about fiveyears.
I've bulked up a ton.
I want to get my weight down.
I don't want to lose lots ofmuscle mass, but like I want to,
I want to get down.
So I track it.
It's on my PPF goals.
(14:53):
It's something that I writedown every single morning in my
notes.
So you know you create a culturelike that, you create
accountability and you start tosee things happen and oftentimes
you know that may be the firsttime someone's actually invested
in them.
Like, if you're running a lawfirm, it's very likely they've
(15:17):
never had a boss actually askthem what their goals are Like.
That won't be a surprise.
It'll be a surprise to the teammember.
You might be surprised in thatexperience because nobody's
probably asked them and thenactually had them present.
It actually had them holdaccountable and we're going to
talk about these every two weeksand then we're going to develop
(15:40):
a development plan for the nextyear about how you're going to
work towards these goals and itjust changes the game.
It helps the team members seewhere their future could be, you
know, especially with ourmarquee team members here at
Rocket Clicks.
You know I want all of them tohave like very clear, very clear
.
Here are my next three moves.
(16:01):
Like I need to develop X, y, x,y and z.
This is what it's going to meanfor me from a title change.
Here's what it's going to meanfor me a comp change and this is
what we're going to be talkingabout.
And once I do that, here's thenext one.
And once I do that, here's thenext one.
And like I can see, like okay,like here's my next three years
of development.
Like I know I'm going to growhere and that's going to be
really rare and that can reallyhelp curb the job hopping,
(16:24):
create accountability, create aculture of growth.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I think all that's really important yeah, I mean,
if you're listening to this,this is not just theory like we
have spent so much time andenergy in building this goal or
in orientated culture, and it's.
It hasn't been easy and youknow, some team members haven't
haven't enjoyed theaccountability of like, hey, if
you write down your goals, we'regoing to hold you accountable
(16:48):
to them and we're going to talkto you about them.
And so if you're listening tothis and you want to implement
this, know that it's going to bebumpy and it's going to take
time to really shift yourculture to more of one focused
on growth and development, butit is so worth it.
It is so gratifying as a leaderto watch your team level up and
(17:12):
achieve goals that maybe theydidn't even think were possible
when they wrote them down.
So it is a hundred percentworth it.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's.
It's a small thing and it'seasily overlooked, but as a
business owner, you know thething that you care, the thing
that keeps you up at night islike I got payroll to run in two
weeks.
I got a lifestyle that Icreated for my family.
I want to.
I want to make sure thatcontinues.
That's really stressful.
(17:42):
What that business owner reallywants is someone that is on
their team, that continues tohit their goals.
They see that over time becausethen they can trust them, and
now that's how partnerships getcreated.
It's actually how long-termearning potential grows, Because
now they see, it's not justlike raising my hand and saying
(18:04):
I want this, I want this, I wantthis, but I'm not willing to do
anything for it.
It's I want this.
What do you want from me?
Here's what I've done.
Here's how I've continued tosupport you.
Here's how we're bothcontinuing to grow.
You just see it.
It's just a different.
It's a different approach andit takes time.
I think that's part of thebiggest issue.
It's like gotta be patient.
(18:25):
You just gotta invest.
Like sometimes I thinkoftentimes in success people
quit right before they're at thefinish line.
You're like the day away fromyeah, like 95 yards down the
field and you're like five yardsaway from the goal and you're
like, oh, screw it, we're done,we're gonna quit.
(18:46):
It's like, why are we quitting?
Like you're so close, likeyou've been working on all of
this and like you, you're givingup on yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Like, don't give up on yourself yeah, well, that's I
think that's the beauty of theaccountability piece is that,
even if you give up on yourself,your team member, your coach,
your manager is here to.
If you give up on yourself,your team member, your coach,
your manager is here to not giveup on you.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, yeah, and help raise your belief fluid, like I
think that's part of the problem, like you have.
You have, you know you havereally good individual
contributors that want to keepgoing and basically you're going
to give them skills they're not.
You're going to ask them todevelop skills they're not good
at.
And what becomes hard is thatteam member is an a plus in a
(19:26):
bunch of different things andyou said I want you to, I want
you to grow here.
You're a c at this and weforget what it took to become an
a plus over here because we'realready there.
We forgot all the pain that allhappened in the past.
We would do the same thing withthis c plus skill get that up
and like where we, where.
You see, that is like thefrustration of the, that growth,
(19:48):
because it's hard and it's notlinear, it's like it's almost
like secular and you go forward,one step forward, two steps,
one step backwards.
Forward, two steps, one stepbackwards and like that's how it
should feel, that's how it'sgoing to feel.
Um, so being patient with it,getting in that season and just
kind of enjoying the process iskind of probably the biggest
(20:10):
piece of advice I can give hell,yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
This is so good.
I'm like just jacked upthinking about all the things
we've done and and the journeythat it's it's taken to get
there.
If you loved this episode onthe Grass Is Always Greener
Theory, you will love thisentire series that we're doing
on sales in a law firm.
But specifically, you'll lovethe next episode, which you can
find right here, which is all onthe commitment it takes to
(20:37):
succeed in law firm sales.
We're diving into what realcommitment looks like and how to
build it into your salesculture.
Make sure to check it out andwe will see you there.
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