August 2, 2023 • 37 mins
We're diving into the deeply transformative journey of our guest, Grant Muller, an individual whose resilience and indomitable spirit shines through his story. From the struggles of fitting into American life as an immigrant child to battling alcoholism, workaholism and a life-threatening drug addiction that led him to homelessness, Grant's story is one of courage, strength, and ultimate redemption.
Having hit rock bottom, Grant's journey to recovery is an inspiring testament to the power of community, belonging, and spiritual connection. His story showcases how he replaced his addiction with a sense of self-acceptance, and the power of non-negotiables that helped him rebuild his life. His journey emphasizes the importance of embracing all parts of ourselves, finding agreement between our identities, and the transformative power of aligning passion with action.
From his lessons on the role of effort and relationships in starting a business, to a fresh perspective on the impact of money and success on lives beyond our own, Grant's insights are profound and transformative. His experience in writing his book 'Top of Heart' offers valuable lessons on the importance of reviews and the power of sharing personal narratives to inspire others. Listen in as Grant shares his incredible journey, a testament to the power of resilience, and the strength of the human spirit. Don't miss this captivating and inspiring episode!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome everybody to another episode
here of the Stowage and Podcastwhere we interview really
interesting people that we thinkhave done some pretty neat
things in different areas.
And I got a really cool gueston here, Mr Grant Muller, who
was referred to us through BobBerg and the Go-Giver sells more
and got a pretty interestingstory here.
(00:21):
And, Mr Muller, I would lovefor you to kind of just kind of
give us a little background.
I know I let you know that Ikind of skimmed the book and
pulled out some of the nuggetsthat I thought were cool.
We had everything from cockpistols to mother searching the
local morgues for you and apretty tragic story that ended
up being into something special.
(00:42):
So welcome to the podcast andtell us a little bit about your
background, Grant.
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Alex Appreciate it.
We moved from South Africa tothe US when I was seven and when
we showed up I talked funny andin middle school it was kind of
okay to have an accent and becool, but in second grade not so
much.
And so I learned very quicklyto pretend to be someone I'm not
(01:09):
to fit in and to survive and beokay.
And through middle school moreof my differences came to light
and again I learned to hide whoI was, and I found alcohol as a
great way to hide from who I was.
From the very first time I hada drink I felt like, wow,
(01:30):
everything is okay in the world,I am finally okay with who I am
and I felt the sense ofbelonging and warmth and love as
sick as that sounds as soon asI started drinking.
So by the time I was in highschool I was drinking daily.
I made it to high schoolsomehow and traded work for
instead of alcohol and I justfound that I preferred the side
(01:55):
effects of workaholism toalcoholism.
And so in the late 90s I endedup at an internet startup.
We all went public.
We went public.
Porces Ferrari started showingup in the parking lot.
We were all rich and I wasabsolutely miserable.
I'd been pretending again to besomebody I'm not, so I hated the
(02:17):
work.
I had no interest in tech and Iremember the night we went
public.
I was sitting in my fancy condooverlooking Denver and I
thought is this, it Like?
I finally made this millionaireby 30 thing, and I don't like
who I am.
I don't like what I'm doing.
I started drinking reallyheavily again.
Within a few months, I wasusing Coke on a daily basis.
(02:39):
I lost that job within sixmonths.
From there, it was a very quickdownhill progression for me and
moved to using meth from thereand ended up homeless on the
streets selling drugs to survive.
That's the quick story, andluckily I got clean and sober in
(03:01):
2008.
I got my license in 2009,started at the Fred Desk of a
very large real estate brandearning $9 an hour, and got my
license after that, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Incredible man.
So I think it was February 20th, right.
Was your sobriety date?
Yes, was that you know?
And there was a part of thebook about Eucardia rock bottom.
Was there at a moment like anepiphany of like, I think, of
Pulp Fiction?
Right, like a moment of clarity?
I guess, if you will, was theresomething that hit you that
just?
Was it that time on the deckthere?
(03:42):
And it sounds like you wentfurther from there down the
drinking realm?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, it's interesting because I know I'm
asked that question a lot and inmy case I hit rock bottom and
then I just dragged myself alongthe bottom for years.
I mean years.
It was a long time that I wasat the bottom and I don't, you
(04:09):
know, I guess really what it wasat the end was I just I knew I
was about to die and there was adude that was after me that
wanted to kill me and I'll just,without giving you too many
details, I'll just say I knowfor a fact that he was good to
do that.
You know, I'll just leave it atthat.
(04:31):
But I was hiding from him in acrack house that was so
disgusting and so dangerous thatI used to refuse to go in there
to sell them drugs.
I used to make them come out tothe street to buy drugs from me
because I was afraid I wouldn'tmake it out alive if I went in.
And now I was hiding in thisplace and I knew that as soon as
(04:54):
this guy's gang members got tothese people they would sell me
out for $5 worth of meth andhe's right here, and I knew I
was gonna be dead.
On top of it I had.
So I couldn't leave the place.
So there was no way to get andthey weren't gonna give me.
I had no money, they weren'tgonna give me drugs, so it was
(05:16):
the bill was, rent was comingdue.
I had to do something to earnmy keep there and I was coming
down off the drug.
So I was very, very sick and hadbronchitis et cetera, and so I
somehow I just stumbled out ofthat place, walked a few blocks
to a pay phone which kind ofdates the story a little bit
(05:37):
called my mom and luckily shewas willing to answer and help
and I said it's me, she hadn't,as you said, she had been
looking for me in the morgues.
They hadn't heard from me.
I had to disconnect from myfamily One because I didn't get
to be with my family and use.
So I knew engaging with thatwould mean I couldn't keep doing
(05:59):
what I was doing and I neededto do what I was doing.
I needed to use.
It's like breathing, it's likeoxygen for me, and I also knew
that if they were in my phone itwas very, very dangerous for
them.
I was hanging out with somevery bad people and they could
be used as leverage for allkinds of things, and so I called
my mom and said it's me, pleasecome get me, I'm done.
She came and got me, and that'snot the end of that story.
(06:23):
There's more in that book.
It's not a beautiful ending,but within a few months I
finally got desperate enoughthat I gave up in February 20th
of 2008,.
So last time I've used drugs oralcohol, yeah that's incredible
, man.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I wanted to ask you as I was reading through this
and you said something that kindof prompted it even further.
You used to survive or to fitin, or survival Like.
Alcohol became this survivalmechanism for you to be able to,
I guess, navigate throughnormal society.
(07:04):
What kind of supplemented that?
And we're gonna dig into somestuff a little bit later about.
I really like your ladder fromno like and trust.
A lot of people think thatthat's just where it ends a no
like and trust and you take iteven further.
I'd like to discuss that alittle bit later.
But what do you think changedfor you in your that?
(07:29):
Alcohol was the survivalmechanism.
Okay, that makes everythingeasier, right?
What did you feel?
What did you find that you hadto face that or that you had to
take on to supplement for thealcohol taking that survival
role mechanism?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So how did I replace it in a more healthy way?
I had to get real about who Iwas.
So I had to be okay withlooking at all of me and being
okay with all of me and thenbeing okay with showing up as I
really am.
And so, and I would say, theother things that filled that
(08:09):
whole that alcohol was fillingwould be belonging, being a part
of community, and in thebeginning that was 12 step
community.
It's now still 12 stepcommunity, but now there are
other communities.
So being a part of community,belonging with that community,
but also belonging with myself,being okay with who I really am,
(08:31):
there's a spiritual connection,so I have a connection to a
higher power.
So there are lots of piecesthat had to take to place that
alcohol was taking and a millionother things.
I mean coaching and therapy,and I mean I could go on and on
and on.
I require a lot to function ata reasonable level, let alone to
(08:55):
try to function at a high level.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
At your core.
Let me ask you this Do youthink so, connecting with
community, absolutely supportand all that do you find that
there's also I don't know how tophrase this but like community
that we create within, becauseif somebody's not there to call,
we have to be able to call onourselves To be strong for
(09:18):
ourselves?
Do you think there's somethingin that of like creating this,
because we all have like myfriend talks about the committee
that they've always gotsomething to say about it.
They've always got something tosay.
It's like kind of bringing thatcommunity of these disparate
personalities that we havetogether.
Does that make sense at all?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean I think that I still actout, but now maybe acting out
as a bag of Cheetos, right, Iwas on the way to.
I did another podcast interviewearlier this morning and I was
kind of laughing to myselfbecause I'm the top of hard guy
(09:57):
in the car and Melinda Roderichshowed up for me this morning
and it's embracing all of thatabout me.
Now, the cool thing is I didn'tget out of the car and run over
to that guy's car and do allthe things that maybe I would
have done 10 years ago, and 20years ago I probably would have
(10:20):
been, you know, I probably wouldhave stolen the car, right.
So things got better, butthey're not perfect, and so I
think sometimes embracing thosepieces of me are great,
embracing the fact that, yeah, Ilike to go to the gym and work
out.
I should say that moreaccurately I work out at home on
(10:42):
a tonal.
If you don't have one, they'reamazing.
But some days I have very, verymediocre workouts, and that's
okay, because it's way betterthan no workout.
So I think it's about learningnot to always be, you know, not
to be all or nothing aboutthings.
You know, maybe I didn't makethe calls I wanted to make to
(11:02):
connect with clients, but maybeI made one, or maybe today I
needed to watch an hour ofNetflix a little earlier in the
evening than normal and thosethings are all okay.
So, connected with all thosepieces, like you said being okay
with all of them, finding someagreement between all of them is
(11:23):
powerful.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yes, I love that.
So it is like this committeethat we have, this community
that we have.
I forget the guy's name.
He's going to escape me, buthe's an anti-aging guy.
His name is Brian.
I just started consuming hisstuff but he actually talked
about what you mentioned thereof like you think, okay, this
was 10 years ago, brian, this is20 years ago, brian.
Do you ever kind of he talksabout that?
(11:47):
He actually watches thatpersonality when he tells that
personality, no, we're not doingthat, and he literally can see
that person pulling a tantrumsaying, no, this is the way I
want to do it, and you're like,no, that's not the way that
we're going to do it, yeahthat's interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I have a different relationship and it's not as
specific as that.
But yeah, I think that I havethose conversations in different
ways and I think there are.
I have my non-negotiables right.
So I will not use alcohol, nomatter what.
(12:26):
We're not drink, no matter what.
I will not eat after 7pm, nomatter what.
Well, that's ever beennon-negotiable.
It's a little different kind ofnon-negotiable.
It's hard, but it's notabsolutely rigid, right?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So there are times when I will eat after 7pm, but
there are just a few things thatI absolutely know I will be
loyal in my relationship.
I will not use alcohol anddrugs, no matter what.
So there's certain things thatjust understanding what those
differences are for me and thenover time, adding to those
(13:03):
non-negotiables, so making that7pm non-negotiable, a real
non-negotiable right, here's thedifference I have as I talk
about them.
So bringing more and morethings to my high performance
mindset so that I can buildmyself up.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Do you give yourself a rewards thing to shore up that
behavior, Because you're notgoing to hit it every time?
But how do we get closer tothat?
Do you do little rewards out ofboys type thing?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
There are certain things I do that for.
Mostly no, because, honestly,it's the intrinsic rewards that
really drive me.
So it's more about anchoring inthe feeling that I have when
I'm doing the thing that feelsright.
So it's more about taking thetime to be quiet and still read
(13:57):
some intention, how I want tofeel after doing that and then
really saying wow.
Let me give you an example.
I almost never want to work out.
Never once, not once have Iever left the gym or stopped
working out and thought, oh gosh, I wish I hadn't done that.
It always feels good.
So I tried to really anchor inthat feeling of feeling good so
(14:19):
that I build that new neuralpathway, if you will.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I love that, Do you think?
I guess we could meet in themiddle in this, because I hear
that you actually are.
Which is another kind of lifehack that I'm hearing a lot out
there is to connect with theactivity that gives you that
sense of satisfaction, Like,okay, this does make me feel
good.
I know that just doing thismakes me feel good and this is
(14:46):
the right thing to be doing.
So I'm just going to anchorinto that feeling by doing that
Output over outcome.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Love it.
Output over outcome.
So that's why I wrote this book, not thinking about how do I
make it a bestseller, how do Iimpress people, how do I do this
thing, how do I finish thisbook?
Even it's just how do I write100 or 150 words today?
That's it.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, I want to dig into that, because today's the
launch, right, congratulations,thank you, congratulations, man,
that's exciting.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
We are number one already in four different
categories, and Amazon hasreally changed the way that they
do that.
You can't game it like you usedto, so it means a lot.
I'm super excited.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Hey way to make it, not game it.
Great to go.
Thank you.
Yeah, I really want to dig intothis piece, man, because I'm
all about that.
I literally have people in myphone as KLT.
No like and trust.
Maybe you can help expand ontothis with.
You know, your heart is at thetop and then hands and then head
.
So it goes no like trust andthen head, hands, heart.
(15:52):
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat ascension, yeah absolutely
so.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Head is mindset, and there are a few different pieces
in mindset, but some really keypieces.
Number one is being real.
So, and the authenticity wordis used a lot and I think it's
used for a reason.
I think it's really valuable.
But what I mean by getting realis not just figuring out who we
(16:19):
really are, but what are ourvalues, what are the beliefs
that drive us and not becausewe've been told to believe them,
but because we truly believethem spending time really
honoring and figuring out who weare.
I had to do that to save mylife, so I got the benefit.
I'm so lucky that I'm an addictbecause I got to go to 12 step
meetings and learn how to bereal for the first time in my
(16:42):
life and when I was real, that'swhen I was invited into that
community, when I showed up as Ireally was.
That's when I belong to myself.
So that's getting real, beingpresent, really showing up and
being present with the peoplewe're with and being open.
So there are lots of pieces togetting to mindset, but that's
the key.
(17:02):
So the first one is mindset.
Now, it's great if you get realand authentic, but if you
really authentically are not agood agent, it's not going to
help you or you in any salescareer, whatever part of your
life you want.
It's not just good enough to bereal, but once we've been real,
(17:22):
we need to say what's next.
Where can I be excellent?
What excellence can I bring tothis?
Where do I need to build betterskills?
And I've been coaching agentsfor quite a few years, but what
I found was I would share what'sworking for me and most of the
time they wouldn't apply itbecause they didn't have the
(17:44):
right habits and skill sets toapply it.
So if I share with you that Igo to lunch, I always say I
lunch for a living and so I goto lunch with all my clients and
you try to do that, but youdon't bring the same passion and
enthusiasm and comfort with whoyou really are to that lunch.
You're not going to have thesame impact I do and you're not
(18:06):
going to have the same results.
And the other part is peoplewho.
So people would either practicethe thing and not have the same
results, or they wouldn'tpractice the thing at all.
So when I found highperformance coaching, I realized
this was a missing piece, andso in skill set is partly
building the habits of highperformance and the excellence
(18:28):
in whatever your business ismaking sure that, for instance,
if you're doing listings, thatyou're marketing your listings
at a level of excellence for whoyou are, what works for you.
But, for instance, I love video.
Many people don't, so that'sokay.
But finding the things that youwant to build your excellence
around, finding what makes youspecial and unique and
(18:48):
developing on that.
So that's hand or skill set.
And then if you know who youare, when you've got all these
great skills but you're notconnecting with people in a deep
, meaningful manner, you're notgoing to build your business.
Now you might be able to buildtransactions and start over deal
after deal, but if you want tohave repeat referral business,
(19:12):
then it's all about creatingreal, meaningful human
connections with those peoplewe're with and that's the heart
or heart set.
So heart sets all around justbringing the human back into
business.
Couple of examples Nobody wantsto work with the Grant Muller
group.
Nobody cares about the GrantMuller group except me and maybe
(19:33):
the logo designer.
That's it.
People don't want to buy frombusinesses, they want to buy
from people.
Very few people care about myemail newsletter.
Do I do it.
Yes, I send it out because Iwant to make sure people are
reminded that I'm in real estateand that we have some level of
excellence.
Same thing with social media,but being person to person,
(19:57):
creating meaningfulrelationships, is where it's all
at.
I was just telling you before westarted today I, just like two
minutes before I talked to you,got the biggest deal of my life
under contract and it happenedfrom a nonprofit board I was on
Many years ago.
I've done at least 300 grand inincome from this one nonprofit
(20:22):
board where I got to show up andserve my community in the way
that I truly want to, and Ideveloped some relationships
there, and one of therelationships was the person who
referred this deal to me.
And she didn't refer this dealto me because she knows me or
likes me or trusts me.
She referred this deal to mebecause I am her and she is me.
(20:45):
We are simpatico.
It was easy for her just tosimply, it was just a natural
thing to say oh, you've got totalk to Grant and, by the way,
if you don't use Grant, I'mnever talking to you again.
That's a different kind ofreferral, right?
So you know how it is, if youcan imagine one of your clients
and they're at lunch with fiveof their friends and one of the
(21:08):
friends says oh look, we'rethinking about moving soon.
Is your client going to waitfor their friend to say do you
know who I should call?
Or is your client going to sayjump in right then and there and
say, absolutely, by the way, ifyou're thinking about selling,
you need to call Alex right now,and if you don't, you're buying
(21:29):
lunch today and I'm heading out.
You're right, I mean it happens.
And so I had one client.
I had one seller.
I went to a listing appointment.
At the listing appointment, itgoes really well and he says
great, I'd love to hire youAwesome, by the way.
He says do you know so-and-so?
And I say yeah, that's mybusiness partner and I own the
(21:51):
brokerage with why?
Oh, because he helped me buythis house and I think he's like
the best agent in town.
I said well, why didn't youcall him?
And they said because so-and-sowho referred me said you
absolutely have to use this guyNow.
That's a referral.
And so the reason I go on andon about that is those things
(22:14):
come from HeartSet.
They don't work if we're notskilled and if we don't have the
right mindset.
But HeartSet just takes thingsto an absolutely totally
different level.
Sorry to preach there, but no,it's spot on, man.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I'm thinking all those KLTs that I need to get
the heart in there more BecauseI know I got the skills right.
So that's the hand.
I mean, I'm trying not to be,but I thank you for that because
it is talk you're talkingreally about.
It's not just to the no-likeand trusted.
It is that they know you carethat much that they're gonna
(22:49):
supplement someone else thatthey think they should go with
and it's you.
That's a great story.
So when you're coaching agentsout there, let's just shift
gears here a little bit.
What is kind of probably someof the biggest misnomers that
agents have that you think thatyou could deploy into them right
now or offer to them to maybeshift their thinking a little
(23:10):
bit about their business?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Oh, there are so many .
Do you have seven to eighthours to go through those?
A few of my favorites.
Number one this overnightsuccess stuff that our industry
sells agents is poison, and it'snot just our industry, it's
many industries, but it can be.
(23:37):
I think that over time thisbusiness can be very lucrative
and very rewarding, and itdoesn't have to be hard.
That's really good news.
The bad news is it takes alittle bit of time to get there,
and so I always share withagents who are.
I tend to work with agents thatare further along, but if I talk
(23:59):
with agents that are juststarting out, I just tell them
look, think about a rocket shipthat's leaving Earth and it
deploys all of that thrust.
You see all those flames comingout of the thing and it doesn't
even leave the pad, it justsits there.
And it takes a lot, and that'swhat starting a business is.
It takes an unreasonable amountof effort to make a very, very
(24:22):
disappointing, mediocre resultin the beginning, but over time,
as that rocket lifts, it getseasier and easier and eventually
, if you don't take your footoff the accelerator and that's
the key you keep pushing, youend up out of the atmosphere and
then this thing just glidesalong and you just little effort
and it goes so far.
(24:43):
So that's a big one.
I think it's a really big one.
The second one is we've got toremove the transaction focus and
add the relationship focus.
So I don't think about peoplelike targets and leads, I just
think about them likerelationships.
And I trust that people in mycommunity I call it my community
(25:07):
instead of my sphere that theyknow that I'm a realtor.
They see me on social media.
That's what social media is forthat email newsletter.
But in between I'm just worriedabout them as people.
So instead of chasing thosetransactions, I just want to add
value in people's lives, and Iknow that sounds maybe a little
cheesy.
I'm very money focused.
(25:28):
I have big goals, so don't getme wrong.
I'm just willing to set themaside for a moment so that I can
build the relationships,because I know that's where the
money will come from.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Those are some good ones, man.
I love that rocket on the pad.
It takes an unreasonable amountof effort and energy and time
to prepare that rocket, evenbefore you even flip the switch.
I could just take so much ofthat on the front end and we
don't get that instantgratification.
Do you think that's a lot of itas well?
I mean, it's one of the jobsthing, right, it's a quick fix.
(26:02):
And I know that I try to imploreupon the agents in my group and
I'm trying to be vulnerablethat in the beginning I was very
money driven, like I saw bagsof money on top of people's
shoulders and literally I sawthat like cartoon almost, and
that has gone over a decade ago.
But yeah, I mean it was aninstant gratification.
(26:25):
Then, to your point, it wasjust on to the next, on to the
next, on to the next, on to thenext and didn't really build the
relationships, and I think Igot caught in that instant
gratification.
You continue to get caught inthat instant gratification, like
the drugs or alcohol or a greatmetaphor, right.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And then you realize it's empty.
I will say a couple of thingsthere.
One I had a client early on.
I remember them inviting me tolunch and I thought what are you
talking about?
We just closed the deal Likethere is no money on this table.
You're not buying another houseanytime soon.
I didn't say this to them, butI thought it and I declined.
I said I'm sorry, I've gotanother appointment.
It's just an unbelievablydifferent mindset than I have
(27:04):
today.
And now today I like to callthem at seven days after closing
and say how's the house?
Is there anything I can helpwith?
How are you doing?
It's the golden hour ofreferrals, because they know
that that we just got paid, andso I just completely flipped
that around and I couldn't agreewith you more.
(27:25):
But I've been there.
If I had taken all of the onlinelead generation that I
converted back in 2010, 11, 12,13,.
If I had not just ditched thoserelationships as soon as it was
done, I probably would beretired by now.
I mean it would be incrediblewhat I could have done if I'd
known.
So I implore agents to reallythink about just building the
(27:48):
relationships.
By the way, I always talk hereabout no need to pretend a
friend.
So there are people who I'vebecome friends with naturally,
and then there are people who Ihave good associations with and
we might catch up once a quarteror we might go to lunch, but
they're not necessarily friends.
I don't pretend to be everyone'sfriend.
I let the relationshipnaturally progress to where it
(28:11):
wants to, just like in real life, because this is real life, and
so I tend to have very few realclose friends at who I am.
But I have tons of people Ienjoy their time with and I
think that that distinction isimportant.
We don't have to pretend to beagain someone we're not.
And also, if I'm making myquarterly conversation
(28:31):
connection with you and yourname comes up two quarters in a
row and I'm like I don't want totalk to Alex, I would probably
just delete you from my CRM.
No need to have that in my life.
And that means I don't care ifyou live in a $4 million house.
If you don't bring me energyand joy.
I don't want to deal with youevery quarter and I don't want
(28:52):
to send you a birthday cardevery year.
It's just too much energy whenyou put your energy into your
sphere like that.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Do you think that a lot of people I mean, I think
we're onto something here thatwe can get addicted to different
things that are an outsidesource to make ourselves inside
feel temporarily connected, likeyou were at South African and
still were that scared kid thatgot picked on and all that, and
(29:18):
you supplemented that Do youthink that can happen for some?
I mean, I see out there peoplethat are doing well on paper and
that are again.
It's a cautionary tale aboutthat.
Money doesn't bring thehappiness.
I don't know exactly where I'mgoing with this, other than I
feel like that money can be atrap similar to drugs and
(29:40):
alcohol.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I think it depends on what the thing is for you.
So when I was in my addiction,I got almost more addicted to
selling drugs than I did.
I sold drugs like a workaholic.
I didn't hang out to party likea lot of drug dealers do, I was
nope.
I got to go to the next one andthe next one, and the next one,
and the next one and I gotaddicted to the next one.
(30:01):
So that same thing can happenwith transactions.
You know, when you're doingreally well in real estate, when
things are really good, youdon't even have time to count
the money.
I don't care about the money,it's like I just want the next
one.
I want to know I can do it.
I want to know I just.
You know you get to that moreand more and more mentality and
(30:22):
when you chase like that, you doso much less business than when
you allow.
But we're getting stronger.
I get it.
When you're hungry, it's reallyirritating when people say
stuff like that.
I totally get it.
At the end of the day, we'vegot to provide for ourselves and
that's the end, all be all whenit comes to money.
But beyond that, we've got tothink about how we want to use
(30:45):
that energy that is money in ourlives and what's most important
for us.
When I first started having somesuccess in real estate, I was
doing all the.
I was buying all the stuffbecause I hadn't had it and it
felt good.
I think that that's perfectlynatural and okay.
Again, money is like everythingelse.
(31:06):
I'm not super judgmental aboutit.
I like my nice things and Ialso love to watch the way that
that money can impact otherpeople's lives.
Probably the most importantthing about money is that in the
real estate deals I don't haveto be attached to that outcome
anymore.
That makes me a much betteragent.
(31:31):
When you walk into a listingappointment and you don't have
to have it, it's so hard not toget it because people feel that
about you.
Excuse me for this analogy, butI call it the stench of the
unlaid.
Somebody at the nightclub whojust wants it a little too much
(31:54):
is not going to get it.
When we have what we alreadywant, we will get it.
What I say is achievement comesfrom fulfillment, not the other
way around.
When we're fulfilled and I meanfulfilled with love and joy, a
spiritual connection, whateverthat means for us when we're
(32:17):
fulfilled with who we are andwe're fulfilled with our
business and we're joyful.
We show up with a differentenergy and in a different way
that is incredibly attractive topeople.
Then our business grows.
That's where fulfillment comesfrom.
If you chase achievement forfulfillment, as you just said,
you're going to end up really,really unhappy.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I love that you just reminded me of an old saying
that we came up with, thatalignment brings abundance.
If you're aligned with theright approach, that will bring
the abundance.
It's not achievement does notbring abundance.
I thought that was a good oneAligning with the right things.
(33:00):
And again to your point a lotof people don't want to hear it
because it's not that instantgratification and you know you
smile at somebody and they winceat you back or whatever, like I
don't know.
That path sucks.
That doesn't work.
It takes time, right.
It takes time to reconditionand realign yourself and not be
(33:20):
attached to again.
In the beginning it could be thedrugs and alcohol.
And then there's this massivevoid of like how do I even feel
good?
I've had people on my teambefore that you know I'm
depressed and I just would liketo take some anti-depressants so
that I know what it feels liketo feel good and I'm like man,
that's a.
That's like a heck of a vortexto be in.
(33:41):
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Because you are down in thedepths of that man.
Maybe you're talking to thatperson out there that is just
really mired in this.
And how do you?
What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Number one get help.
Number one reach out tosomebody for help.
And number two is get moving.
It's really really, really hardto be depressed if you're
moving, if you're in motion ofsome kind, whether that's
physical movement or moving inyour life.
You know, in some days puttingyour dirty dishes in the
dishwasher is an incredibleachievement.
(34:16):
And if that's what you need todo to begin, then begin there.
You know, start with the littlethings, take action, make tiny
promises to yourself and keepthem.
And again, sometimes thepromise is I'm going to shower
today, it just depends on whereyou're coming from.
But mostly get help, because Ijust believe that I can't get
(34:38):
clean.
But we can.
You know, and I think thatthat's that's the also the top
of heart thing that's going fromme to we, and so together we
can do so much.
But we need help.
There are no self-made people.
You know those self-made peoplethat are driving on the roads
that we help pay to pave.
So you know there's no suchthing.
(35:01):
We need each other and I thinkthat reaching out for help is
really, really important.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I love that man.
Well, so finishing on this.
I think we're going to needanother podcast after you go
straight to the top 10 sellershere.
Is there anything that you'dlike to share with the audience,
kind of in a finalencapsulation here?
I would highly recommend.
I'm going to.
You sent me the pre-publishedbook, so I'm going to.
(35:27):
I'm going to finish that man.
I did a quick skim through andyou got a great writing style.
By the way, it's very kind ofpro's ask I like that writing
style.
Is there anything that you'dlike to leave the audience with
Ma-Mint?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Thank you so you can find me at GrantMullercom.
And yes, please buy my book.
Please review the book onAmazon.
In writing books it's more.
Reviews are even more importantthan in real estate.
It's just, it drives everything.
It's crazy, but what it wouldsay, what I'll leave you with is
I think it's really importantto recognize that stories like
(36:05):
mine again aren't.
They're about me doing a lot ofwork to make my life better,
but they're about all the peoplethat helped along the way.
And so please reach out forhelp in whatever way you need it
, whether you need a coach toget to the next level, you need
a bookkeeper to get to the nextlevel, or you need a therapist
(36:27):
to get to the next level.
Reach out for help and thenturn back and reach out your
hand and help somebody who's onestep behind you.
Don't wait until you're at thisbeautiful place where your life
is perfect and I learned thisin recovery.
I just have to be on step twoin the 12 steps to be a sponsor
for someone who's just beginning.
(36:47):
So reach out and help someonethat's one step, one step behind
.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Great final message.
Well, audience, you know whereto check out the book Top of
Heart.
Check it out on Amazon Review.
It Love it.
Check it out.
It's from what I've read it was.
It was awesome and I appreciateyou spending the time with us
and I know I got some greatnotes here to to deliver with my
smaller audience about whatyou've brought and I really
appreciate you taking the timeGrant.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Awesome.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
All right, welcome everybody to another episode
here of the Stowage and Podcastwhere we interview really
interesting people that we thinkhave done some pretty neat
things in different areas.
And I got a really cool gueston here, Mr Grant Muller, who
was referred to us through BobBerg and the Go-Giver sells more
and got a pretty interestingstory here.
(00:21):
And, Mr Muller, I would lovefor you to kind of just kind of
give us a little background.
I know I let you know that Ikind of skimmed the book and
pulled out some of the nuggetsthat I thought were cool.
We had everything from cockpistols to mother searching the
local morgues for you and apretty tragic story that ended
up being into something special.
(00:42):
So welcome to the podcast andtell us a little bit about your
background, Grant.
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Alex Appreciate it.
We moved from South Africa tothe US when I was seven and when
we showed up I talked funny andin middle school it was kind of
okay to have an accent and becool, but in second grade not so
much.
And so I learned very quicklyto pretend to be someone I'm not
(01:09):
to fit in and to survive and beokay.
And through middle school moreof my differences came to light
and again I learned to hide whoI was, and I found alcohol as a
great way to hide from who I was.
From the very first time I hada drink I felt like, wow,
(01:30):
everything is okay in the world,I am finally okay with who I am
and I felt the sense ofbelonging and warmth and love as
sick as that sounds as soon asI started drinking.
So by the time I was in highschool I was drinking daily.
I made it to high schoolsomehow and traded work for
instead of alcohol and I justfound that I preferred the side
(01:55):
effects of workaholism toalcoholism.
And so in the late 90s I endedup at an internet startup.
We all went public.
We went public.
Porces Ferrari started showingup in the parking lot.
We were all rich and I wasabsolutely miserable.
I'd been pretending again to besomebody I'm not, so I hated the
(02:17):
work.
I had no interest in tech and Iremember the night we went
public.
I was sitting in my fancy condooverlooking Denver and I
thought is this, it Like?
I finally made this millionaireby 30 thing, and I don't like
who I am.
I don't like what I'm doing.
I started drinking reallyheavily again.
Within a few months, I wasusing Coke on a daily basis.
(02:39):
I lost that job within sixmonths.
From there, it was a very quickdownhill progression for me and
moved to using meth from thereand ended up homeless on the
streets selling drugs to survive.
That's the quick story, andluckily I got clean and sober in
(03:01):
2008.
I got my license in 2009,started at the Fred Desk of a
very large real estate brandearning $9 an hour, and got my
license after that, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Incredible man.
So I think it was February 20th, right.
Was your sobriety date?
Yes, was that you know?
And there was a part of thebook about Eucardia rock bottom.
Was there at a moment like anepiphany of like, I think, of
Pulp Fiction?
Right, like a moment of clarity?
I guess, if you will, was theresomething that hit you that
just?
Was it that time on the deckthere?
(03:42):
And it sounds like you wentfurther from there down the
drinking realm?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, it's interesting because I know I'm
asked that question a lot and inmy case I hit rock bottom and
then I just dragged myself alongthe bottom for years.
I mean years.
It was a long time that I wasat the bottom and I don't, you
(04:09):
know, I guess really what it wasat the end was I just I knew I
was about to die and there was adude that was after me that
wanted to kill me and I'll just,without giving you too many
details, I'll just say I knowfor a fact that he was good to
do that.
You know, I'll just leave it atthat.
(04:31):
But I was hiding from him in acrack house that was so
disgusting and so dangerous thatI used to refuse to go in there
to sell them drugs.
I used to make them come out tothe street to buy drugs from me
because I was afraid I wouldn'tmake it out alive if I went in.
And now I was hiding in thisplace and I knew that as soon as
(04:54):
this guy's gang members got tothese people they would sell me
out for $5 worth of meth andhe's right here, and I knew I
was gonna be dead.
On top of it I had.
So I couldn't leave the place.
So there was no way to get andthey weren't gonna give me.
I had no money, they weren'tgonna give me drugs, so it was
(05:16):
the bill was, rent was comingdue.
I had to do something to earnmy keep there and I was coming
down off the drug.
So I was very, very sick and hadbronchitis et cetera, and so I
somehow I just stumbled out ofthat place, walked a few blocks
to a pay phone which kind ofdates the story a little bit
(05:37):
called my mom and luckily shewas willing to answer and help
and I said it's me, she hadn't,as you said, she had been
looking for me in the morgues.
They hadn't heard from me.
I had to disconnect from myfamily One because I didn't get
to be with my family and use.
So I knew engaging with thatwould mean I couldn't keep doing
(05:59):
what I was doing and I neededto do what I was doing.
I needed to use.
It's like breathing, it's likeoxygen for me, and I also knew
that if they were in my phone itwas very, very dangerous for
them.
I was hanging out with somevery bad people and they could
be used as leverage for allkinds of things, and so I called
my mom and said it's me, pleasecome get me, I'm done.
She came and got me, and that'snot the end of that story.
(06:23):
There's more in that book.
It's not a beautiful ending,but within a few months I
finally got desperate enoughthat I gave up in February 20th
of 2008,.
So last time I've used drugs oralcohol, yeah that's incredible
, man.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I wanted to ask you as I was reading through this
and you said something that kindof prompted it even further.
You used to survive or to fitin, or survival Like.
Alcohol became this survivalmechanism for you to be able to,
I guess, navigate throughnormal society.
(07:04):
What kind of supplemented that?
And we're gonna dig into somestuff a little bit later about.
I really like your ladder fromno like and trust.
A lot of people think thatthat's just where it ends a no
like and trust and you take iteven further.
I'd like to discuss that alittle bit later.
But what do you think changedfor you in your that?
(07:29):
Alcohol was the survivalmechanism.
Okay, that makes everythingeasier, right?
What did you feel?
What did you find that you hadto face that or that you had to
take on to supplement for thealcohol taking that survival
role mechanism?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So how did I replace it in a more healthy way?
I had to get real about who Iwas.
So I had to be okay withlooking at all of me and being
okay with all of me and thenbeing okay with showing up as I
really am.
And so, and I would say, theother things that filled that
(08:09):
whole that alcohol was fillingwould be belonging, being a part
of community, and in thebeginning that was 12 step
community.
It's now still 12 stepcommunity, but now there are
other communities.
So being a part of community,belonging with that community,
but also belonging with myself,being okay with who I really am,
(08:31):
there's a spiritual connection,so I have a connection to a
higher power.
So there are lots of piecesthat had to take to place that
alcohol was taking and a millionother things.
I mean coaching and therapy,and I mean I could go on and on
and on.
I require a lot to function ata reasonable level, let alone to
(08:55):
try to function at a high level.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
At your core.
Let me ask you this Do youthink so, connecting with
community, absolutely supportand all that do you find that
there's also I don't know how tophrase this but like community
that we create within, becauseif somebody's not there to call,
we have to be able to call onourselves To be strong for
(09:18):
ourselves?
Do you think there's somethingin that of like creating this,
because we all have like myfriend talks about the committee
that they've always gotsomething to say about it.
They've always got something tosay.
It's like kind of bringing thatcommunity of these disparate
personalities that we havetogether.
Does that make sense at all?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean I think that I still actout, but now maybe acting out
as a bag of Cheetos, right, Iwas on the way to.
I did another podcast interviewearlier this morning and I was
kind of laughing to myselfbecause I'm the top of hard guy
(09:57):
in the car and Melinda Roderichshowed up for me this morning
and it's embracing all of thatabout me.
Now, the cool thing is I didn'tget out of the car and run over
to that guy's car and do allthe things that maybe I would
have done 10 years ago, and 20years ago I probably would have
(10:20):
been, you know, I probably wouldhave stolen the car, right.
So things got better, butthey're not perfect, and so I
think sometimes embracing thosepieces of me are great,
embracing the fact that, yeah, Ilike to go to the gym and work
out.
I should say that moreaccurately I work out at home on
(10:42):
a tonal.
If you don't have one, they'reamazing.
But some days I have very, verymediocre workouts, and that's
okay, because it's way betterthan no workout.
So I think it's about learningnot to always be, you know, not
to be all or nothing aboutthings.
You know, maybe I didn't makethe calls I wanted to make to
(11:02):
connect with clients, but maybeI made one, or maybe today I
needed to watch an hour ofNetflix a little earlier in the
evening than normal and thosethings are all okay.
So, connected with all thosepieces, like you said being okay
with all of them, finding someagreement between all of them is
(11:23):
powerful.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yes, I love that.
So it is like this committeethat we have, this community
that we have.
I forget the guy's name.
He's going to escape me, buthe's an anti-aging guy.
His name is Brian.
I just started consuming hisstuff but he actually talked
about what you mentioned thereof like you think, okay, this
was 10 years ago, brian, this is20 years ago, brian.
Do you ever kind of he talksabout that?
(11:47):
He actually watches thatpersonality when he tells that
personality, no, we're not doingthat, and he literally can see
that person pulling a tantrumsaying, no, this is the way I
want to do it, and you're like,no, that's not the way that
we're going to do it, yeahthat's interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I have a different relationship and it's not as
specific as that.
But yeah, I think that I havethose conversations in different
ways and I think there are.
I have my non-negotiables right.
So I will not use alcohol, nomatter what.
(12:26):
We're not drink, no matter what.
I will not eat after 7pm, nomatter what.
Well, that's ever beennon-negotiable.
It's a little different kind ofnon-negotiable.
It's hard, but it's notabsolutely rigid, right?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So there are times when I will eat after 7pm, but
there are just a few things thatI absolutely know I will be
loyal in my relationship.
I will not use alcohol anddrugs, no matter what.
So there's certain things thatjust understanding what those
differences are for me and thenover time, adding to those
(13:03):
non-negotiables, so making that7pm non-negotiable, a real
non-negotiable right, here's thedifference I have as I talk
about them.
So bringing more and morethings to my high performance
mindset so that I can buildmyself up.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Do you give yourself a rewards thing to shore up that
behavior, Because you're notgoing to hit it every time?
But how do we get closer tothat?
Do you do little rewards out ofboys type thing?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
There are certain things I do that for.
Mostly no, because, honestly,it's the intrinsic rewards that
really drive me.
So it's more about anchoring inthe feeling that I have when
I'm doing the thing that feelsright.
So it's more about taking thetime to be quiet and still read
(13:57):
some intention, how I want tofeel after doing that and then
really saying wow.
Let me give you an example.
I almost never want to work out.
Never once, not once have Iever left the gym or stopped
working out and thought, oh gosh, I wish I hadn't done that.
It always feels good.
So I tried to really anchor inthat feeling of feeling good so
(14:19):
that I build that new neuralpathway, if you will.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I love that, Do you think?
I guess we could meet in themiddle in this, because I hear
that you actually are.
Which is another kind of lifehack that I'm hearing a lot out
there is to connect with theactivity that gives you that
sense of satisfaction, Like,okay, this does make me feel
good.
I know that just doing thismakes me feel good and this is
(14:46):
the right thing to be doing.
So I'm just going to anchorinto that feeling by doing that
Output over outcome.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Love it.
Output over outcome.
So that's why I wrote this book, not thinking about how do I
make it a bestseller, how do Iimpress people, how do I do this
thing, how do I finish thisbook?
Even it's just how do I write100 or 150 words today?
That's it.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, I want to dig into that, because today's the
launch, right, congratulations,thank you, congratulations, man,
that's exciting.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
We are number one already in four different
categories, and Amazon hasreally changed the way that they
do that.
You can't game it like you usedto, so it means a lot.
I'm super excited.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Hey way to make it, not game it.
Great to go.
Thank you.
Yeah, I really want to dig intothis piece, man, because I'm
all about that.
I literally have people in myphone as KLT.
No like and trust.
Maybe you can help expand ontothis with.
You know, your heart is at thetop and then hands and then head
.
So it goes no like trust andthen head, hands, heart.
(15:52):
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat ascension, yeah absolutely
so.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Head is mindset, and there are a few different pieces
in mindset, but some really keypieces.
Number one is being real.
So, and the authenticity wordis used a lot and I think it's
used for a reason.
I think it's really valuable.
But what I mean by getting realis not just figuring out who we
(16:19):
really are, but what are ourvalues, what are the beliefs
that drive us and not becausewe've been told to believe them,
but because we truly believethem spending time really
honoring and figuring out who weare.
I had to do that to save mylife, so I got the benefit.
I'm so lucky that I'm an addictbecause I got to go to 12 step
meetings and learn how to bereal for the first time in my
(16:42):
life and when I was real, that'swhen I was invited into that
community, when I showed up as Ireally was.
That's when I belong to myself.
So that's getting real, beingpresent, really showing up and
being present with the peoplewe're with and being open.
So there are lots of pieces togetting to mindset, but that's
the key.
(17:02):
So the first one is mindset.
Now, it's great if you get realand authentic, but if you
really authentically are not agood agent, it's not going to
help you or you in any salescareer, whatever part of your
life you want.
It's not just good enough to bereal, but once we've been real,
(17:22):
we need to say what's next.
Where can I be excellent?
What excellence can I bring tothis?
Where do I need to build betterskills?
And I've been coaching agentsfor quite a few years, but what
I found was I would share what'sworking for me and most of the
time they wouldn't apply itbecause they didn't have the
(17:44):
right habits and skill sets toapply it.
So if I share with you that Igo to lunch, I always say I
lunch for a living and so I goto lunch with all my clients and
you try to do that, but youdon't bring the same passion and
enthusiasm and comfort with whoyou really are to that lunch.
You're not going to have thesame impact I do and you're not
(18:06):
going to have the same results.
And the other part is peoplewho.
So people would either practicethe thing and not have the same
results, or they wouldn'tpractice the thing at all.
So when I found highperformance coaching, I realized
this was a missing piece, andso in skill set is partly
building the habits of highperformance and the excellence
(18:28):
in whatever your business ismaking sure that, for instance,
if you're doing listings, thatyou're marketing your listings
at a level of excellence for whoyou are, what works for you.
But, for instance, I love video.
Many people don't, so that'sokay.
But finding the things that youwant to build your excellence
around, finding what makes youspecial and unique and
(18:48):
developing on that.
So that's hand or skill set.
And then if you know who youare, when you've got all these
great skills but you're notconnecting with people in a deep
, meaningful manner, you're notgoing to build your business.
Now you might be able to buildtransactions and start over deal
after deal, but if you want tohave repeat referral business,
(19:12):
then it's all about creatingreal, meaningful human
connections with those peoplewe're with and that's the heart
or heart set.
So heart sets all around justbringing the human back into
business.
Couple of examples Nobody wantsto work with the Grant Muller
group.
Nobody cares about the GrantMuller group except me and maybe
(19:33):
the logo designer.
That's it.
People don't want to buy frombusinesses, they want to buy
from people.
Very few people care about myemail newsletter.
Do I do it.
Yes, I send it out because Iwant to make sure people are
reminded that I'm in real estateand that we have some level of
excellence.
Same thing with social media,but being person to person,
(19:57):
creating meaningfulrelationships, is where it's all
at.
I was just telling you before westarted today I, just like two
minutes before I talked to you,got the biggest deal of my life
under contract and it happenedfrom a nonprofit board I was on
Many years ago.
I've done at least 300 grand inincome from this one nonprofit
(20:22):
board where I got to show up andserve my community in the way
that I truly want to, and Ideveloped some relationships
there, and one of therelationships was the person who
referred this deal to me.
And she didn't refer this dealto me because she knows me or
likes me or trusts me.
She referred this deal to mebecause I am her and she is me.
(20:45):
We are simpatico.
It was easy for her just tosimply, it was just a natural
thing to say oh, you've got totalk to Grant and, by the way,
if you don't use Grant, I'mnever talking to you again.
That's a different kind ofreferral, right?
So you know how it is, if youcan imagine one of your clients
and they're at lunch with fiveof their friends and one of the
(21:08):
friends says oh look, we'rethinking about moving soon.
Is your client going to waitfor their friend to say do you
know who I should call?
Or is your client going to sayjump in right then and there and
say, absolutely, by the way, ifyou're thinking about selling,
you need to call Alex right now,and if you don't, you're buying
(21:29):
lunch today and I'm heading out.
You're right, I mean it happens.
And so I had one client.
I had one seller.
I went to a listing appointment.
At the listing appointment, itgoes really well and he says
great, I'd love to hire youAwesome, by the way.
He says do you know so-and-so?
And I say yeah, that's mybusiness partner and I own the
(21:51):
brokerage with why?
Oh, because he helped me buythis house and I think he's like
the best agent in town.
I said well, why didn't youcall him?
And they said because so-and-sowho referred me said you
absolutely have to use this guyNow.
That's a referral.
And so the reason I go on andon about that is those things
(22:14):
come from HeartSet.
They don't work if we're notskilled and if we don't have the
right mindset.
But HeartSet just takes thingsto an absolutely totally
different level.
Sorry to preach there, but no,it's spot on, man.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I'm thinking all those KLTs that I need to get
the heart in there more BecauseI know I got the skills right.
So that's the hand.
I mean, I'm trying not to be,but I thank you for that because
it is talk you're talkingreally about.
It's not just to the no-likeand trusted.
It is that they know you carethat much that they're gonna
(22:49):
supplement someone else thatthey think they should go with
and it's you.
That's a great story.
So when you're coaching agentsout there, let's just shift
gears here a little bit.
What is kind of probably someof the biggest misnomers that
agents have that you think thatyou could deploy into them right
now or offer to them to maybeshift their thinking a little
(23:10):
bit about their business?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Oh, there are so many .
Do you have seven to eighthours to go through those?
A few of my favorites.
Number one this overnightsuccess stuff that our industry
sells agents is poison, and it'snot just our industry, it's
many industries, but it can be.
(23:37):
I think that over time thisbusiness can be very lucrative
and very rewarding, and itdoesn't have to be hard.
That's really good news.
The bad news is it takes alittle bit of time to get there,
and so I always share withagents who are.
I tend to work with agents thatare further along, but if I talk
(23:59):
with agents that are juststarting out, I just tell them
look, think about a rocket shipthat's leaving Earth and it
deploys all of that thrust.
You see all those flames comingout of the thing and it doesn't
even leave the pad, it justsits there.
And it takes a lot, and that'swhat starting a business is.
It takes an unreasonable amountof effort to make a very, very
(24:22):
disappointing, mediocre resultin the beginning, but over time,
as that rocket lifts, it getseasier and easier and eventually
, if you don't take your footoff the accelerator and that's
the key you keep pushing, youend up out of the atmosphere and
then this thing just glidesalong and you just little effort
and it goes so far.
(24:43):
So that's a big one.
I think it's a really big one.
The second one is we've got toremove the transaction focus and
add the relationship focus.
So I don't think about peoplelike targets and leads, I just
think about them likerelationships.
And I trust that people in mycommunity I call it my community
(25:07):
instead of my sphere that theyknow that I'm a realtor.
They see me on social media.
That's what social media is forthat email newsletter.
But in between I'm just worriedabout them as people.
So instead of chasing thosetransactions, I just want to add
value in people's lives, and Iknow that sounds maybe a little
cheesy.
I'm very money focused.
(25:28):
I have big goals, so don't getme wrong.
I'm just willing to set themaside for a moment so that I can
build the relationships,because I know that's where the
money will come from.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Those are some good ones, man.
I love that rocket on the pad.
It takes an unreasonable amountof effort and energy and time
to prepare that rocket, evenbefore you even flip the switch.
I could just take so much ofthat on the front end and we
don't get that instantgratification.
Do you think that's a lot of itas well?
I mean, it's one of the jobsthing, right, it's a quick fix.
(26:02):
And I know that I try to imploreupon the agents in my group and
I'm trying to be vulnerablethat in the beginning I was very
money driven, like I saw bagsof money on top of people's
shoulders and literally I sawthat like cartoon almost, and
that has gone over a decade ago.
But yeah, I mean it was aninstant gratification.
(26:25):
Then, to your point, it wasjust on to the next, on to the
next, on to the next, on to thenext and didn't really build the
relationships, and I think Igot caught in that instant
gratification.
You continue to get caught inthat instant gratification, like
the drugs or alcohol or a greatmetaphor, right.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And then you realize it's empty.
I will say a couple of thingsthere.
One I had a client early on.
I remember them inviting me tolunch and I thought what are you
talking about?
We just closed the deal Likethere is no money on this table.
You're not buying another houseanytime soon.
I didn't say this to them, butI thought it and I declined.
I said I'm sorry, I've gotanother appointment.
It's just an unbelievablydifferent mindset than I have
(27:04):
today.
And now today I like to callthem at seven days after closing
and say how's the house?
Is there anything I can helpwith?
How are you doing?
It's the golden hour ofreferrals, because they know
that that we just got paid, andso I just completely flipped
that around and I couldn't agreewith you more.
(27:25):
But I've been there.
If I had taken all of the onlinelead generation that I
converted back in 2010, 11, 12,13,.
If I had not just ditched thoserelationships as soon as it was
done, I probably would beretired by now.
I mean it would be incrediblewhat I could have done if I'd
known.
So I implore agents to reallythink about just building the
(27:48):
relationships.
By the way, I always talk hereabout no need to pretend a
friend.
So there are people who I'vebecome friends with naturally,
and then there are people who Ihave good associations with and
we might catch up once a quarteror we might go to lunch, but
they're not necessarily friends.
I don't pretend to be everyone'sfriend.
I let the relationshipnaturally progress to where it
(28:11):
wants to, just like in real life, because this is real life, and
so I tend to have very few realclose friends at who I am.
But I have tons of people Ienjoy their time with and I
think that that distinction isimportant.
We don't have to pretend to beagain someone we're not.
And also, if I'm making myquarterly conversation
(28:31):
connection with you and yourname comes up two quarters in a
row and I'm like I don't want totalk to Alex, I would probably
just delete you from my CRM.
No need to have that in my life.
And that means I don't care ifyou live in a $4 million house.
If you don't bring me energyand joy.
I don't want to deal with youevery quarter and I don't want
(28:52):
to send you a birthday cardevery year.
It's just too much energy whenyou put your energy into your
sphere like that.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Do you think that a lot of people I mean, I think
we're onto something here thatwe can get addicted to different
things that are an outsidesource to make ourselves inside
feel temporarily connected, likeyou were at South African and
still were that scared kid thatgot picked on and all that, and
(29:18):
you supplemented that Do youthink that can happen for some?
I mean, I see out there peoplethat are doing well on paper and
that are again.
It's a cautionary tale aboutthat.
Money doesn't bring thehappiness.
I don't know exactly where I'mgoing with this, other than I
feel like that money can be atrap similar to drugs and
(29:40):
alcohol.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I think it depends on what the thing is for you.
So when I was in my addiction,I got almost more addicted to
selling drugs than I did.
I sold drugs like a workaholic.
I didn't hang out to party likea lot of drug dealers do, I was
nope.
I got to go to the next one andthe next one, and the next one,
and the next one and I gotaddicted to the next one.
(30:01):
So that same thing can happenwith transactions.
You know, when you're doingreally well in real estate, when
things are really good, youdon't even have time to count
the money.
I don't care about the money,it's like I just want the next
one.
I want to know I can do it.
I want to know I just.
You know you get to that moreand more and more mentality and
(30:22):
when you chase like that, you doso much less business than when
you allow.
But we're getting stronger.
I get it.
When you're hungry, it's reallyirritating when people say
stuff like that.
I totally get it.
At the end of the day, we'vegot to provide for ourselves and
that's the end, all be all whenit comes to money.
But beyond that, we've got tothink about how we want to use
(30:45):
that energy that is money in ourlives and what's most important
for us.
When I first started having somesuccess in real estate, I was
doing all the.
I was buying all the stuffbecause I hadn't had it and it
felt good.
I think that that's perfectlynatural and okay.
Again, money is like everythingelse.
(31:06):
I'm not super judgmental aboutit.
I like my nice things and Ialso love to watch the way that
that money can impact otherpeople's lives.
Probably the most importantthing about money is that in the
real estate deals I don't haveto be attached to that outcome
anymore.
That makes me a much betteragent.
(31:31):
When you walk into a listingappointment and you don't have
to have it, it's so hard not toget it because people feel that
about you.
Excuse me for this analogy, butI call it the stench of the
unlaid.
Somebody at the nightclub whojust wants it a little too much
(31:54):
is not going to get it.
When we have what we alreadywant, we will get it.
What I say is achievement comesfrom fulfillment, not the other
way around.
When we're fulfilled and I meanfulfilled with love and joy, a
spiritual connection, whateverthat means for us when we're
(32:17):
fulfilled with who we are andwe're fulfilled with our
business and we're joyful.
We show up with a differentenergy and in a different way
that is incredibly attractive topeople.
Then our business grows.
That's where fulfillment comesfrom.
If you chase achievement forfulfillment, as you just said,
you're going to end up really,really unhappy.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I love that you just reminded me of an old saying
that we came up with, thatalignment brings abundance.
If you're aligned with theright approach, that will bring
the abundance.
It's not achievement does notbring abundance.
I thought that was a good oneAligning with the right things.
(33:00):
And again to your point a lotof people don't want to hear it
because it's not that instantgratification and you know you
smile at somebody and they winceat you back or whatever, like I
don't know.
That path sucks.
That doesn't work.
It takes time, right.
It takes time to reconditionand realign yourself and not be
(33:20):
attached to again.
In the beginning it could be thedrugs and alcohol.
And then there's this massivevoid of like how do I even feel
good?
I've had people on my teambefore that you know I'm
depressed and I just would liketo take some anti-depressants so
that I know what it feels liketo feel good and I'm like man,
that's a.
That's like a heck of a vortexto be in.
(33:41):
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Because you are down in thedepths of that man.
Maybe you're talking to thatperson out there that is just
really mired in this.
And how do you?
What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Number one get help.
Number one reach out tosomebody for help.
And number two is get moving.
It's really really, really hardto be depressed if you're
moving, if you're in motion ofsome kind, whether that's
physical movement or moving inyour life.
You know, in some days puttingyour dirty dishes in the
dishwasher is an incredibleachievement.
(34:16):
And if that's what you need todo to begin, then begin there.
You know, start with the littlethings, take action, make tiny
promises to yourself and keepthem.
And again, sometimes thepromise is I'm going to shower
today, it just depends on whereyou're coming from.
But mostly get help, because Ijust believe that I can't get
(34:38):
clean.
But we can.
You know, and I think thatthat's that's the also the top
of heart thing that's going fromme to we, and so together we
can do so much.
But we need help.
There are no self-made people.
You know those self-made peoplethat are driving on the roads
that we help pay to pave.
So you know there's no suchthing.
(35:01):
We need each other and I thinkthat reaching out for help is
really, really important.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I love that man.
Well, so finishing on this.
I think we're going to needanother podcast after you go
straight to the top 10 sellershere.
Is there anything that you'dlike to share with the audience,
kind of in a finalencapsulation here?
I would highly recommend.
I'm going to.
You sent me the pre-publishedbook, so I'm going to.
(35:27):
I'm going to finish that man.
I did a quick skim through andyou got a great writing style.
By the way, it's very kind ofpro's ask I like that writing
style.
Is there anything that you'dlike to leave the audience with
Ma-Mint?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Thank you so you can find me at GrantMullercom.
And yes, please buy my book.
Please review the book onAmazon.
In writing books it's more.
Reviews are even more importantthan in real estate.
It's just, it drives everything.
It's crazy, but what it wouldsay, what I'll leave you with is
I think it's really importantto recognize that stories like
(36:05):
mine again aren't.
They're about me doing a lot ofwork to make my life better,
but they're about all the peoplethat helped along the way.
And so please reach out forhelp in whatever way you need it
, whether you need a coach toget to the next level, you need
a bookkeeper to get to the nextlevel, or you need a therapist
(36:27):
to get to the next level.
Reach out for help and thenturn back and reach out your
hand and help somebody who's onestep behind you.
Don't wait until you're at thisbeautiful place where your life
is perfect and I learned thisin recovery.
I just have to be on step twoin the 12 steps to be a sponsor
for someone who's just beginning.
(36:47):
So reach out and help someonethat's one step, one step behind
.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Great final message.
Well, audience, you know whereto check out the book Top of
Heart.
Check it out on Amazon Review.
It Love it.
Check it out.
It's from what I've read it was.
It was awesome and I appreciateyou spending the time with us
and I know I got some greatnotes here to to deliver with my
smaller audience about whatyou've brought and I really
appreciate you taking the timeGrant.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Awesome.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
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