March 26, 2021 • 48 mins
Join us as we discuss the food of the future (bugs), debunk an old wives' tale, and cover some of the experiences faced by Native American women as we continue to remember Women's History Month.
So, pop in your headphones and take a walk or listen to us on your drive home. We're talking about the widespread sterilization of Native American Women--often without their consent or knowledge, and a native Alaskan woman named Elizabeth Peratrovich who was instrumental in the very first civil rights bill.
Get $5 off any purchase at Harney and Son's PLUS free shipping!
Sources:
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/highwayhistory/peratrovich.cfm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Peratrovich
https://time.com/5737080/native-american-sterilization-history/
https://daily.jstor.org/the-little-known-history-of-the-forced-sterilization-of-native-american-women/
https://www.ladyscience.com/features/forced-sterilization-native-american-women-face-rejection-retraumatization-in-healthcare
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pearl (00:00):
It's like people who like Brussels sprouts and they're
like, well, first you coveredthem.
Bacon.
Andrew (00:05):
Verdun bacon cooking and bacon fat, and then dip it in
hot sauce.
I'm like, well, okay.
Pearl (00:10):
And then take a bite of bacon and then quickly to the
brussel sprout and then eat morebacon.
Andrew (00:15):
So, what you're telling me is that you like bacon
newsflash.
We already knew that.
Pearl (00:27):
So, welcome to the stories.
We forgot that's a AGA Hurst.
My hilarious husband.
Andrew (00:34):
That's my amazing wife, Pearl Hearst.
Welcome to the stories weforgot.
Pearl (00:40):
So today on the stories we've forgotten, we're going to
be talking about we're going tobe, we're still in March and
March is international women'shistory month.
And we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit more, but any,
any celebration or remembranceor conversation about women's
(01:00):
history month in United Stateswould be lacking if it did not
cover the lives of nativeAmerican women?
So today on the podcast, we'regoing to be talking about Just
some of the, some of theexperiences of native American
women in the United States.
Andrew (01:19):
Yeah.
We got some good stories today.
Pearl (01:20):
But first, what are you drinking?
AGA Hearst.
Andrew (01:24):
Well, Pearl Hearst, you made my drink.
So let me see if I can get itright.
I think we have today a mix ofhot cinnamon spice, Harney and
sons tea mixed with chocolatetea.
Is there a specific name for thechocolate tea?
Just chocolate.
It's really good.
It's kind of like a Mild makesthe hot cinnamon spice a little
(01:47):
more mild and quite tasty.
Very simple, no sweetener in it.
Just a little bit of milk.
Pearl (01:53):
Yeah.
It's sweet enough on its own.
Yeah, so I like to I was thekind of kid growing up.
If I got a chance to go to asoda machine with a cup.
You know, I mixed flavors.
Andrew (02:07):
Oh yeah.
The suicide.
Pearl (02:10):
well, we didn't call it that,
Andrew (02:11):
That's what I that's what I called it.
Pearl (02:13):
Yeah.
It was just kind of like, it waslike the ultimate experiment of
let's see.
And what, what, what one ring torule them all drink.
Can I create the ultimate drinkthat this machine can make same
thing with cold cereal?
I mean, if, if there's two typesof cold cereal, I'm not having
two separate bowls of coldcereal, I'm gonna mix them 100%.
(02:34):
I'm going to make them
Andrew (02:34):
Right.
You got to figure it out.
Pearl (02:36):
So I have some chocolate Harney and sons, which is a
black tea with notes ofchocolate.
And then I mixed it with theHarney and sons hot cinnamon
spice because the hot cinnamonspice tea, has so much
concentrated cinnamon and cloveflavor that it is sweet on its
own.
So this one doesn't need anyadditional sweeteners.
(02:56):
So I put the two together andI've got just kind of like a
chocolate.
Cinnamon Mexican hot chocolatekind of flavor
Andrew (03:03):
Oh, Mexican hot shot.
I was trying to think of aflavor profile that would,
Pearl (03:07):
with a little bit of milk in there.
Does it need any, does it needany sweetener?
So yeah, that's, that's whatwe're drinking today.
I've had several people tell mewith delight and surprise that
you can find Harney and sons attarget and Amazon.
And here's the thing.
You guys, you can find Harneyand sons and target and Amazon.
(03:28):
It's older.
It's staler and it's moreexpensive.
So if you want to try this tea,buy it on the website.
It's always free shipping and Ihave a$5 off coupon on The
stories we forgot.com so one ofthe cool things that's going to
be happening this spring that wejust realized kind of this
(03:49):
morning is that 2021 is the yearof the 17 year Cicada cycle.
So I'm coming from the Westcoast.
We literally knew nothing aboutcicadas.
I mean, I had heard about themthat they existed, but I didn't
actually know anything aboutthem.
And the first time weencountered cicadas, we were on
(04:12):
a trip to Washington DC.
This was years ago and we hearda Cicada up in the branches of a
tree and we were like, What isup in that tree was like
Andrew (04:23):
What kind of bird from hell is this?
Pearl (04:26):
it's like some weird metallic robot.
Like, it didn't sound natural ornormal at all.
We were so confused I think weactually recorded it on our
camera yeah.
So, but this is a 17 year Cicadacycle, so I think what happens,
and this is coming from a placeof,
Andrew (04:47):
Oh, right.
I just read today that theCicada pocalypse of 2004, that
was the 17 years.
I just, I just.
I did the math and realized thatwas
Pearl (04:58):
our 17 year
Andrew (04:59):
Oh So we really may be in for Cicada apocalypse too
Yeah.
Pearl (05:05):
So, having done zero research and only just briefly
glancing at news articles aboutthis, what I have surmised is
that cicadas live underground inlike a grub state for 17 years.
Andrew (05:23):
sucking on the roots of trees or something.
Pearl (05:26):
sucking on them,
Andrew (05:27):
That's what I read
Pearl (05:29):
feeding on tree and plant.
Andrew (05:33):
I mean their larva, they basically do probably suck on, I
don't know.
Pearl (05:37):
I dunno.
I dunno how larvae I don't wantto, I don't want to think about
larva eating anything.
That's disgusting.
So then, and again, not ascientist.
They are a historian, theyhatch, and I don't know,
there's, there's severaldifferent stages in their life
cycle that I'm really notfamiliar with.
(05:57):
All I know is that they go frombeing these, I think grubs
Andrew (06:02):
This is really well-researched
Pearl (06:04):
to being basically the most horrific, gigantic fly.
You can imagine.
They're literally, that's not afly, but they're literally like,
I dunno the size of a halfdollar coin or something maybe
bigger than
Andrew (06:19):
Oh.
While some of them are biggerSome of them get really big
They're like the their body islike the size of your thumb
Pearl (06:26):
Yeah They're they're just huge and they're not super
graceful So last summer the catswould just catch them and maim
them so they could play withthem And Oh gosh
Andrew (06:36):
Cats are disgusting.
Pearl (06:37):
So anyways long story short, we learned this morning
that cicadas are edible.
So.
Andrew (06:42):
food of the
Pearl (06:44):
Food of the future here's, here's the thing you
guys, here in the United Statesand in Western culture in
general, we do not eat bugs.
However, we do eat seafood.
We have no problem eating shrimpand crab and lobster.
(07:06):
Oysters.
I mean, oysters, you guys comeon and I eat oysters too, but
let's think about oysters first,
Andrew (07:13):
right?
You crack them open and they arenot
Pearl (07:16):
let's not think about oysters.
So
Andrew (07:19):
they are delicious though,
Pearl (07:20):
in a large part of the world, cicadas and other insects
are routinely eaten becausethey're, you know, a healthy
source of protein and fat and
Andrew (07:28):
even as a delicacy,
Pearl (07:29):
yeah, they're eaten on purpose.
We just eat them in the UnitedStates on accident.
Andrew (07:33):
On accident.
Pearl (07:34):
Yeah, just Google USDA
Andrew (07:37):
Oh, right.
Pearl (07:38):
What's what, what
Andrew (07:39):
allowable amounts in food.
Pearl (07:41):
right?
Yeah.
so we looked up a couple ofpreparation methods for them.
Apparently.
Here's what you do.
You catch them by hand becausethat's how easy they are to
catch you.
Just like pick them up and putthem on
Andrew (07:52):
and you want to catch them at a certain point where
they're still, they're stillsoft before they, their
exoskeleton hardens more orsomething.
Pearl (08:02):
So that's the preferred time to catch them.
You can eat them when, when theexoskeleton has hardened,
they're just crunching.
Andrew (08:07):
Yeah.
You can eat them anytime.
Pearl (08:09):
Yeah.
Andrew (08:09):
They're really at any time snack,
Pearl (08:11):
there aren't any time.
Snack, birthdays, holidays,family, get togethers.
Andrew (08:16):
Just keep a handful in the pantry for the kids,
Pearl (08:19):
Dog treats, kid treats.
So you you take the livecicadas.
If they're dead, you do not wantto be eating bugs that have
already died.
You want to make sure thatyou're the one that kills them,
Andrew (08:29):
Make sure they're fresh.
Pearl (08:30):
make sure they're freshly alive when you kill them.
This is horrific.
So you dump them into a pot ofboiling water for five minutes.
You pour them out in a strainer,in the sink, and then you pluck
off all the wings and lakes.
Just for texture, you cantotally eat them, but it's just
a texture thing.
And then you take these giantbodies Of cicadas,
Andrew (08:51):
the size of your thumb,
Pearl (08:52):
the size of your thumb.
You, you put them in a hot saucepan with some butter and garlic
Andrew (08:57):
And they were basically black in the video.
We
Pearl (09:00):
Well, not black,
Andrew (09:00):
they looked black, they were very dark.
Pearl (09:03):
I mean, yeah,
Andrew (09:03):
Like a giant black grub.
Pearl (09:05):
I started talking about it.
You fry them up with some butterand garlic and a
Andrew (09:10):
Cicada, scampi
Pearl (09:11):
on noodles.
You got Cicada scampi.
So
Andrew (09:13):
apparently they are best deep fried though.
Pearl (09:16):
That just seems like a lot of this.
It seems like a huge commitment,
Andrew (09:19):
but isn't Mo aren't most foods best deep any who, if you
eat Cicada, please let us knowwith pictures,
Pearl (09:29):
Yeah, for sure.
Andrew (09:30):
videos, preferably
Pearl (09:32):
we we'll we'll probably do this with the kids mostly
just for the
Andrew (09:36):
probably, maybe sorta kinda
Pearl (09:39):
We'll probably do it
Andrew (09:41):
We'll see.
Pearl (09:42):
mostly so we can record the kids eating the, I don't, I
don't know if I can eat aCicada.
Andrew (09:46):
I kind of want to eat just one.
I saw one, one recipe of makingcandied Cicada.
I'm thinking like a, like agiant tophi peanut, maybe.
Pearl (09:57):
Yeah.
See, I just kind of feel likethat's a waste of.
Good ingredients.
who do like, like chocolateflavor, crickets and stuff, just
eat the chocolate and then eat acricket don't ruin good
Andrew (10:09):
enough chocolate and it just totally covers up the
flavor.
Well, if you have to cover upthe flavor, maybe you just
shouldn't start with that asyour base.
Pearl (10:16):
It's like people who like Brussels sprouts and they're
like, well, first you coveredthem.
Bacon.
Andrew (10:21):
Verdun bacon cooking and bacon fat, and then dip it in
hot sauce.
I'm like, well, okay.
Pearl (10:27):
And then take a bite of bacon and then quickly to the
brussel sprout and then eat morebacon.
Andrew (10:32):
So, what you're telling me is that you like bacon
newsflash.
We already knew that.
Pearl (10:38):
Where are we going to start?
Where are we going to start asegment about debunking old
wives tales?
Andrew (10:43):
Oh, we were, I forgot about that.
Pearl (10:46):
So, so today on our segment debunking old wives
tales with AIG,
Andrew (10:51):
You make it sound so official,
Pearl (10:53):
It's super official.
It is now because this isofficially the second one.
So the old wives tale that we'regoing to be discussing today is
eating eight spiders a year inour sleep.
Andrew (11:05):
Oh, I have heard that, that you eat a certain amount of
Pearl (11:08):
average people eat eight spiders a year while they're
sleeping.
Andrew (11:12):
I have my own personal with
Pearl (11:15):
Okay.
So, so here's, here's how thisgets to bunked.
It gets debunked by you guys.
So we're going to tell you guys,our experiences, and then you
tell us whether or not you thinkthis is accurate.
Some people have called this anold wives tale, and that is not
accurate.
There are reasons to think thatit wouldn't be accurate,
including the fact that spidersare generally afraid of people.
And there's not a lot of, I, I'mnot really sure why a spider
(11:38):
would crawl into someone'smouth, which is going to be hot
and steamy.
And just, I don't know, itdoesn't seem like a place a
spider would want to go.
So, ADA, what are, what are yourspider experiences?
Andrew (11:51):
Oh, well I just remember, gosh, I was probably
16 or 17.
I'm trying to remember how old Iwas.
I don't remember if I was stillliving with my parents or not.
Anyways, was in bed.
And was sleeping with just apair of shorts, no shirt.
And I felt like a little tickleon my stomach.
(12:15):
And I think I must've just beenin that kind of like half
asleep, half awake.
And so I just brushed down on mystomach, just, you know, like a
little random itch and then Ifelt it again.
And I, I think at that point,
Pearl (12:33):
at that point you levitated like six feet in the
air
Andrew (12:37):
sleepy enough that I lifted up the sheet and I looked
down and I saw a spider crawlingup.
Wasn't a giant spider, but aspider crawling up my stomach.
So then yes, then I smacked it.
Got it off levitated out of bed.
And then I couldn't find it.
(12:59):
So then I was shaking out myblanket, my sheets, my pillow.
I pulled off the fitted sheet onmy bed, shook it out for like 10
minutes.
Finally, you know, If I had beenold enough, I'd have taken a
shot of whiskey and gone back tobed.
But I was like trying to come mymirror,
Pearl (13:21):
So that's your most recent Spire spider experience
wins when you were 14?
Andrew (13:25):
I was like
Pearl (13:27):
Okay
Andrew (13:29):
It's the most prominent one that I can remember.
So I'm not, I don't, yeah.
I don't know that I've had anyother More recent
Pearl (13:36):
So gosh, trying to think.
Seven or eight years ago.
We bought a an old farm houseway out in the country.
And not as glamorous as itsounds, trust me.
We bought a very, not glamorousfarmhouse out in the country.
And there was just.
An unreal amount of spiders inthat house.
Andrew (13:58):
Well, it had been abandoned for
Pearl (14:00):
it hadn't been lived in for many years.
So there's a couple ofexperiences living in the house
that I can vividly remember.
Experienced number one would bewaking up in the morning,
turning my head and seeing asquished spider on the pillow
next to me.
Andrew (14:16):
on the pillow.
Pearl (14:18):
knew that I squished it with my face.
Do you know how difficult it isto kill a spider on a pillow
with your face?
Andrew (14:26):
Right.
Hang on.
Wait a second.
Just recently I saw a spider inthe basement and I stepped on it
and it continued.
It got up.
Pearl (14:35):
Gave you the finger.
Yeah.
So, so that's kind of ahorrifying, they're like what's,
that was just like rubbing myface.
Andrew (14:41):
Oh,
Pearl (14:42):
It's just horrifying to think about
Andrew (14:44):
Oh, my fuzzy pillow.
Pearl (14:46):
then.
Then there was another time Iflipped back the blankets hopped
into bed and out of like theperipheral subconscious corner
of my mind's eye, I saw a littledark thing underneath the
blankets at the end of the bed.
And I dismissed it because, youknow, major spider phobia,
sometimes you just start seeingthings.
(15:07):
And then
Andrew (15:07):
Usually you see something like that and it turns
out to be nothing it's a shadow.
Pearl (15:10):
Yeah.
And then I just, I think I justforgot about it.
And the next morning I woke upand there's a dead spider
underneath there.
So, And then moving to Virginia,Obviously, there's a ton of
spiders in Virginia too, andI've had my own share of
Virginia spider experiences.
But I think the worst experienceI had in Virginia was
Andrew (15:32):
another mini legged
Pearl (15:34):
Virginia has house centipedes.
So basically
Andrew (15:37):
if you're not familiar with these things, just Google
it
Pearl (15:40):
from the entire Western half of the United States.
You probably don't know whatwe're talking about.
It looks like something thatcame out of a spaceship and it's
here to torment you and yourdreams.
Andrew (15:52):
Actually,
Pearl (15:53):
me of is it reminds me of a shorter version of the thing
that went in the guy's bellybutton in the middle.
Andrew (15:57):
That's what I was just going to say.
If you have seen the matrix, thelittle thing that crawls into
Keanu Reeves belly button inearly in the movie, just picture
that crawling around on yourwalls and ceiling
Pearl (16:10):
Yeah So, it's basically a cross between a centipede and a
spider.
It's like it's got a longcentipedes body and then just
massive long spider legs andit's incredibly lightening fast.
Andrew (16:23):
super fast
Pearl (16:24):
So, I was laying in bed and this was for some reason I F
I think that you had to begetting up.
This was during a work whereveryou were working for whatever
time do you have any get uppretty early.
And we hadn't had great sleepthe night before because a
hashtag for kids.
And I think your alarm was goingto go off at like 4:00 AM.
(16:45):
And so I did not, I did not wantto wake you up.
So what, what happened is inthat half asleep state, I felt
something run across my back.
It's like making me sweat, justthinking about it.
Andrew (17:04):
many, many legs.
Pearl (17:05):
felt many legs run across my back and having lived in a
house with spiders for so long,I knew what I needed to do.
You gotta, you gotta pull, yougotta make, take the first shot.
I rolled over
Andrew (17:21):
strike first, strike back, strike hard
Pearl (17:26):
basically I rolled over as fast as I could.
And I just, and again, I'm stillsleeping.
This is like in that half asleepstate, I'm just like, I just
gotta do this.
And I'm just crushing whateverit is into the sheets with my
back and just laying there andjust like shivering state of
terror because have I killed it?
Where is it?
(17:46):
What was it?
It's underneath my back, pinnedup against the sheets and it's
three 50.
So I don't want to wake you up
Andrew (17:56):
a M you mean?
Yeah.
Three 58.
Oh yeah.
Pearl (17:58):
Yeah.
So, yeah, we don't sleep at fouro'clock in the afternoon.
So the alarm went off, you gotup and I got up and there was
just legs everywhere.
Andrew (18:13):
but there is no body,
Pearl (18:14):
Yeah.
No body legs everywhere.
Nobody.
Andrew (18:18):
And these legs, mind you are like, I don't know for the
big ones, probably three to fourinches long.
Just the legs.
Pearl (18:25):
They're so big.
Yeah, so, I mean, superhorrific, super, super horrific
then.
The next night we're sitting inbed, we're watching show, we're
getting our Netflix and chill onand we walk, we see a massive
house and a pizza run across thewall and it's missing half of
its place.
(18:45):
So we killed it right there.
I got out and chase it down witha flip flop
Andrew (18:50):
because with those things, you really do have to
strike fast because I've, I hadone, one time where I saw it.
I saw it on the wall.
Pearl (18:59):
They're so fast So you need two people One person makes
eye contact with it and doesn'tlose it And the other person
that's for somebody to kill itwith
Andrew (19:06):
Well cause one time I was passing through the room on
my way to do something and I sawone on the wall and I was like
ah I should really probably killthat thing I went you know
stepped into the room for like10 seconds and came right back
out and it was gone already.
And it was like in the middle ofthe wall.
Yeah.
Nowhere to go or hide.
I looked for it like behindcurtains and everything.
(19:26):
Couldn't
Pearl (19:27):
How centipedes are incredibly adept at hiding too.
Oh, gosh, they just give me the
Andrew (19:32):
all right.
Pearl (19:33):
So,
Andrew (19:33):
boy, this is a real
Pearl (19:34):
Enough about
Andrew (19:35):
entomology
Pearl (19:36):
been talking a lot about
Andrew (19:37):
podcast from people who don't know much about
Pearl (19:40):
why, you know why today we're recording the lucky number
13 of our podcast.
So
Andrew (19:47):
can I tell you something though, as a child?
I remember I must've read abook.
Maybe it was like some kind ofRipley's believe it or not book
or something like
Pearl (19:54):
that that's very on brand for you
Andrew (19:56):
for awhile.
I, I kinda thought it would beawesome to be a forensic
entomologist.
Pearl (20:01):
And do what entomologists do.
Andrew (20:04):
Have you seen bones?
Pearl (20:05):
Oh, right.
Who is that?
Andrew (20:06):
Jack right.
Pearl (20:08):
It's his name?
Jack.
Andrew (20:09):
Oh man.
My mind just went blank.
The curly headed guy.
Pearl (20:12):
with curly hair.
Andrew (20:13):
Yeah.
He's a forensic entomologiststudies,
Pearl (20:17):
I don't know I feel
Andrew (20:18):
their effects
Pearl (20:19):
feel like forensic and entomologists basically look up
the life cycles of grubs, offlesh eating grubs.
That's basically all they do.
Andrew (20:26):
I mean, I could go into more detail, but it gets pretty
gross.
Pearl (20:29):
Yeah.
They're basically just studyinglarva stages
Andrew (20:31):
in dead bodies
Pearl (20:33):
in dead bodies.
That sounds like the combinationof the two most disgusting
things ever
Andrew (20:38):
kind of interesting.
you can pinpoint time of deathmoving along Should we get to
some history?
Pearl (20:45):
we should get to some history.
we have two different stories totalk about today,
Andrew (20:51):
give us your story for the pod
Pearl (20:52):
day on the pod, we're going to be talking about
something that hasdisproportionately affected
native American women.
So native American women are ina very high risk group.
They have always been in a veryhigh risk group for violence by
and large crimes against nativeAmerican women do not get
reported.
(21:12):
And they definitely don't getprosecuted.
So, this, this crime wasactually perpetuated by the U S
government surprise surprise.
So, You know, last week when wewere talking about Fannie Lou
Hamer and the what does she callit?
Andrew (21:30):
Mississippi appendectomy
Pearl (21:31):
Mississippi appendectomy.
Yeah, black women were not theonly ones who were subject to
sterilization without theirknowledge and consent.
From 1972, 1976.
So we're talking recent history,very recent history, the Indian
health services which was formedwithin the government of health,
(21:54):
education and welfare by the U Sgovernment was responsible for
sterilizing over 70,000 nativeAmerican women.
About 25% of women ofchildbearing age in the United
States.
There's evidence.
However, that suggests thatthese numbers may be much higher
as much as high as 42% of allnative American women of
(22:17):
childbearing including womenunder 18 in 1970, the birth rate
for native American women was3.29.
The average for non native womenin 1970 was 2.48 at the end of
the forced sterilization period,the native American birth rate
had dropped to 1.3.
(22:40):
So we're going to be talkingabout a eugenics in modern
history.
I think a lot of times when wethink about forced eugenics
we're thinking about 1920s andeven maybe 1950s, but we're
talking about the 1970s and TheIndian health services is a
(23:00):
government organization that wasbasically formed as a way to
provide health services fornative Americans.
Again, not Indians nativeAmericans, Indians are from
India.
And so it's kind of, it's justanother example of how, how
difficult it is for minoritiesto trust the government today.
(23:25):
Because of events in recenthistory that have very, very
clearly damaged that trust.
So the Indian health serviceswas formed as a result of the
United States need to fulfilltreaty obligations to native
Americans.
So I think the obligation wasthat the us was obligated to
(23:49):
provide healthcare.
So basically what we have thenis the, is the native Americans
needed to seek their health carethrough Indian health services?
They weren't it was much moredifficult slash impossible for
them to get healthcare and stillis to get healthcare through the
same routes that you and I wouldbecause they have to get it
(24:11):
through Indian health services,if they want it to be paid.
Andrew (24:15):
gosh, sometimes these things are set up and it's,
there's just such a conflict ofinterest.
And it's so convoluted.
Pearl (24:23):
This, the, the Indian health services is, has always
been dramatically underfunded.
It's just, it's kind of been alittle bit of a joke of a health
care service for.
Native people.
Andrew (24:37):
Yeah.
I
Pearl (24:37):
An example would be in 2014, their per capita, the
Indian health services percapita expenditures for patient
health services was 3,100compared to just over 8,000 per
capita, nationally.
So just to give you an idea ofthe amount of healthcare that
was spent per person nationallyversus per native American so
(25:00):
really underfunded.
So in the 1970s in the beginningof the 1970s, the.
Us government started to heavilypush birth control methods
towards native American womenbecause they wanted birth rates
to drop because you've got womenwho are who don't have access to
(25:23):
quality health care.
Their birth, their death rate ishigher.
With infants their infantmortality rate is higher as a
result and reservation lifedoesn't exactly set up people
for success, right?
So it's kind of like thisvicious cycle.
so what ended up happening wasthe the doctors operating within
(25:45):
the Indian health services.
And this is just kind of like,an example of systemic racism,
where you have the doctorswithin the health system.
Are, are working in a culturethat believes that, native
American women are unfitmothers.
They don't have the skills ortime to properly use other birth
(26:06):
control methods.
And they're much more likely tohave more children than they
intended.
So their natural response tothis was a sterilization and
there were several ways thatthey would sterilize native
American women first.
They would, tell them that theyneeded it and pressure them into
(26:27):
it within a very short timeframeso that they would get consent.
Andrew (26:30):
Right.
Don't give them time to think
Pearl (26:31):
Don't give them time to think about it.
The second way that they woulddo it is they would tell them
that they were reversible.
Hysterectomy is, are notreversible.
We're talking about primarily.
We're talking about primarilyhysterectomy and tubal
ligations.
I don't know if tubal ligationis reversible.
That might be a scenario whereit could be, but most likely not
(26:54):
either way.
And then the third andpotentially much more common
method was just to not tell themat all.
To include it in otherprocedures that they were
already going in for to misleadthem strongly into signing
paperwork, you know, sayinglike, Oh, this is the permission
slip for your painkillers.
Go ahead and sign off on this.
And it was actually thepermission slip, granting them
(27:17):
the rights to a sterilization.
Andrew (27:19):
Very easy to slip in some other paperwork.
Pearl (27:22):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
Right.
Andrew (27:23):
So they could probably legally be covered.
Pearl (27:26):
so in, in the years of 1970 to 1976, between 25 to 42%
of native American women weresterilized using these methods,
Andrew (27:37):
Wow.
That's a huge
Pearl (27:39):
It is huge.
It's a huge amount.
And one of the things that makesthis unique is that all other
races in the United States havea gene pool outside of the
United States.
But if we wipe out nativeAmericans, that's the end of
that journey.
(27:59):
Right There are no other nativeAmericans and other countries so
the tragedy then is this kind offorced mass extinction where we
are cutting the, the birth rateof this nation within a nation
over in half, by over half,within six years.
Andrew (28:17):
Right.
Right.
Their birth rate dropped morethan half.
yeah.
Yeah
Pearl (28:22):
There's multiple examples of teenagers going in for
procedures like tonsillectomiesand getting tubal ligations.
Of course act appendectomies, innative American culture, the
ability to reproduce was, was areally sacred, part of humanity
and womanhood.
Andrew (28:43):
I mean, as it has it, as it is in most a certain extent,
Pearl (28:49):
I believe in native American culture.
So this forced sterilizationdramatically affected the mental
health of the women that had hadtheir fertility taken away from
them, uh
Andrew (29:02):
Especially if they didn't really know for sure.
Or they didn't certainly if theydidn't consent to it, but then
down the road, if they've kindof,
Pearl (29:11):
Or even if they did consent to it and they, and they
realized after the fact thatthey had been pressured into
something that they actuallydidn't want.
You know?
And so then they've got thisfeeling of complicity.
Andrew (29:22):
Well and this is I mean this is also in the seventies
when you know modern medicine iskind of exploding and but
there's also not the internetwhere you can go on and find all
kinds of other information tosupport or contradict what
(29:43):
you're hearing from the doctor Imean right now you could hear
something from your doctor andyou could type it into Google
and get 20,000 articles Eitherconfirming or contradicting it
and you can have lots ofinformation to process this back
then It was like who else areyou going to go to
Pearl (30:00):
and too, it's also important to point out that this
period of.
Forced sterilization was not wasnot limited to native American
women.
It also dramatically affectedblack women and Latino women.
So I think I think that nativeAmerican women through the
Indian health services had avery high vulnerability to this
(30:22):
because it was their specifichealth care system that was
sterilizing them.
The other really devastatingpart about this story is that
during this period in history, Idon't think it's the case
anymore, but during this periodin history this is coming off of
like the 1960s war on poverty.
And the number of people onwealth care is dramatically
(30:44):
increasing in an attempt toraise the standard of living.
Most doctors at this time arestill white males.
And they're kind of a, there'skind of like this general boys
club belief that they're helpingthe government cut, cut Medicaid
(31:04):
and welfare spending by reducingthe birth rate in these people,
groups that are heavilydepending on it.
So, one of the things that theyhad was economic incentives
physicians could increase theirincome by performing
hysterectomies and othersterilization procedures.
So, instead of saying, you know,instead of prescribing
(31:27):
alternative and inexpensivemethods of birth control to
these women and educating themthey would simply perform,
perform a sterilizationprocedure and be heavily
compensated
Andrew (31:42):
Hmm.
Pearl (31:43):
It was also common in this period of medical history
for doctors to get experience inobstetrics and gynecology
working with minority women toget experience on the government
on the government's dime becauseyou know, they could, they could
practice improve their skillsetand then go work at hospitals,
(32:04):
serving white women.
After they've, you know,practiced on the bodies of,
minority women.
Andrew (32:11):
Yeah.
Sad.
Just kind of a general abuse ofpower.
Really?
Pearl (32:18):
Yeah.
It's, it's a massive abuse ofpower.
And it wasn't there was multiplegroups that were recognizing and
protesting and this, and itwasn't until 1977 that this
basically came to light and,forced sterilization was, it
wasn't stopped, but they put inmore benchmarks and rules that
(32:41):
would help women to not getsterilized.
It's also really critical topoint out that one of the things
that shaped fear aroundsterilization for native
American women was that becausethey were arguing against a
government entity.
In saying we did not consent tothis.
(33:03):
they were afraid thatauthorities might take them,
take away their welfare benefitsor even worse remove their
children which was not anextreme, which was not an
extreme fear to have.
It was a, not an overreaction byany, by any sense.
It wasn't until 1978 that theIndian child welfare act was
(33:24):
enacted.
I think if I remember correctly,that means that native children
can not be adopted into nonnative homes anymore.
I mean, not native children canbe in foster care, but I don't
think they can be adopted tosomeone outside of their tribe.
and that, and that It may seemlimiting today to a child who
(33:46):
needs, who needs a good home,but that also stopped a massive
trend for native Americanchildren of removing them from
their native American cultureand removing the last bits of
their culture from them andtheir family and turning them
into essentially white children.
Andrew (34:05):
We see the flip side where I've heard that, that it's
very difficult to place nativechildren in adoption, but
without having the context ofwhy those were, why those laws
and regulations were put inplace, it's it's D you got to
understand both sides of
Pearl (34:27):
Yeah.
So in September of 1977, thenational council of churches in
our, in a religious foundationfor community organization went
to Washington DC for aconference to fight
sterilization abuse.
And they had over 60 delegatesof native American, Hispanic
(34:47):
African-American and otherleaders attended this conference
and they kind of just addressedthe abuses.
I think with right within theIndian health services, the
Indian health services nevercame out and said let's
sterilize native American women.
But the trickle down effect ofthe systemic racism at the time
(35:10):
shaped the ideologies of thedoctors that were working for
the Indian health services.
And so then these doctors weretaking matters into their own
hands.
So, about 19, 1976, I think thenthey started to the U S
government started toinvestigate.
And see if there was any truthto these, to these claims.
(35:30):
And once everything came tolight then, then it was stopped.
But yeah, so I wanted to Iwanted to highlight this story
today because I think it'simportant for us to recognize
that life in the United States,as Americans has been a
different experience for nativeAmerican women than it has been
(35:53):
for other women.
And my family doesn't have ahistory of forced sterilization.
You know, this isn't somethingthat my mom my mom or her
siblings or peers experienced.
But if I was a native Americanwoman, that would very much be
the case.
(36:13):
And
Andrew (36:14):
right.
Pearl (36:15):
you
Andrew (36:15):
to 40% you said,
Pearl (36:17):
Yeah.
It would shape you dramatically.
And it would just kind of shapeyour your ability to Trust will
definitely shape your ability totrust the government, but it
also just kind of shape youroverall outlook on living in the
United States and your value asa human and the ability that you
(36:41):
have to be heard and listenedto.
Andrew (36:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Particularly by the overwhelmingwhite majority of the Hmm.
Pearl (36:55):
So I wanted to, I wanted to highlight this story and the
next story that you're going totalk about too.
Just simply because,
Andrew (37:01):
it ties into it a little
Pearl (37:02):
yeah, I think with.
With with women's history month,this isn't a month where we're
talking about, Oh, this is thefirst woman who did this and
this woman did this cool thing.
And here's so-and-so who wasamazing.
We know women are amazingbecause they're humans, so
that's not surprising, but Ithink it's, it's important to
recognize a women's historymonth so that we understand the
(37:27):
the things that have happened inthe past and how they shape our
present and future.
Andrew (37:33):
Yes.
The next story that I'll bepresenting is about Elizabeth
and I hope that I'm saying herlast name correctly.
I saw multiple differentpronunciations.
So the one I'm going with wasthe one given by a woman who was
speaking during Elizabeth day inAlaska.
(37:56):
the best article I found on itwas actually from the federal
highway administration site.
Well, she was ElizabethWanamaker born in Petersburg,
Alaska.
She in 1911, she is a member ofthe Tlingit nation.
She was adopted by theWanamaker's She spoke, tilling
(38:19):
it and English grew up quitepoor while experiencing
discrimination by theterritory's white residents.
There were commonly seen signson businesses and different
facilities that said, no nativesallowed many signs would say, no
dogs, comma, no natives.
(38:42):
Or we catered a white trade.
Only natives were restricted andwhere they could live, which
hospitals would accept them,which restaurants or theaters
they could enter.
They could send their childrenonly to Indian schools.
Elizabeth was fortunate.
She was able to go to catch acat high school, which had been
integrated as a result of alawsuit filed by a Tlingit
(39:03):
leader.
Then in 1933, she married Royalso at clean it um also at
clean it, in 1941.
They moved to Juneau, Alaska andRoy, her husband was the leader
of the Alaska nativebrotherhood.
(39:24):
And Elizabeth was grandpresident of the Alaska native
sisterhood.
That year they spotted a nonatives allowed sign on the door
of the Douglas in, in Juno withthe U S having just entered
world war two, 1941, right?
They were outraged by this signof discrimination.
(39:45):
They wrote to governor earnestgrinning.
The proprietor of Douglas indoes not seem to realize that
our native boys are just aswilling as the white boys to lay
down their lives to protect thefreedom that he enjoys.
The sign was an outrage.
They said that was the start ofprimarily, I believe her
campaign.
(40:06):
But also with the support of herhusband and the support of
governor Grunin to pass ananti-discrimination bill through
the territorial legislature in1943, however it failed in the
house by a tie vote.
So her, so Elizabeth and herhusband, Roy traveled around the
state, urging native Americansto join, join up with them for
(40:27):
their fight for justice in 1945,the house, which now included
two natives passed that samebill, which went to the Senate
where it had enough votes topass.
However, during some of thediscourse and debate of this
one, opponent to the billSenator Allen Shattuck asked
(40:49):
quote, who are these peoplebarely out of savagery who want
to associate with us whites with5,000 years of recorded
civilization behind us andquote.
No, I think we should pause onthat just for a second and see,
so that was in 1945 and how thatties into your story Pearl of
(41:09):
just that continued racistideology and you see it with,
you know, the treatment of blackpeople, of, of any of these
minorities, where they are stillconsidered, you know, these
quote unquote savages, or just astep up from like, they are not
(41:33):
as evolved as the whitecivilization is.
And if you believe that, or ifyou were taught,
Pearl (41:42):
native women do not have the intelligence necessary to
operate basic birth
Andrew (41:47):
control.
Right.
And that was just so heavilyingrained in people's.
Hearts and minds of the timethat then it's not that far of a
jump to go to forcedsterilization.
It's think that you're doingthis noble cause and helping out
(42:08):
the
Pearl (42:09):
the government Cubs spending the government to cut
spending too.
It's
Andrew (42:13):
Right.
You're helping everybody And ofcourse, those are just
horrendous thoughts and, andneed to be stamped out, but they
were so prevalent.
And that wasn't that long agothat a Senator would make those
comments during an officialdebate of a bill in 1945.
During the public comment periodof this same debate time after
(42:38):
those comments, by the SenatorElizabeth who always knitted
while attending legislativesessions, put down her needles
to speak, Quote, I would nothave expected that I, who am
barely out of savagery wouldhave to remind the gentlemen
with 5,000 years of recordedcivilization behind them of our
bill of rights in quote, micdrop, boom.
(43:02):
After she described therestrictions, her family faced
and the discrimination withthese signs that were up in the.
The discriminatory acts bypeople in Alaska.
The Senator asked if she thoughtthe bill would end
discrimination.
She replied, quote, do your lawsagainst larceny and even murder.
(43:22):
Prevent those crimes.
No law will eliminate crimes,but at least you, as legislators
can assert to the world that yourecognize the evil of the
present situation and speak yourintent to help us overcome
discrimination and quote, thegallery broke out in loud
applause.
The bill passed the Senate,which according to one account
(43:43):
was forced to a defensivewhisper at the close of that
Senate hearing by a five footfive inch tilling it woman.
And on February 16th, 1945,governor Rooney and approved the
country's first, the country'sfirst anti-discrimination law.
This was 19 years before thecivil rights law of 1964.
(44:06):
I believe.
Unfortunately, ElizabethPetrovich died on December 1st,
1958 at the age of 47 of breastcancer.
She lived long enough to see therough early years of the civil
rights movement during which therest of the country battled with
the same types of discriminationagainst African-Americans that
(44:27):
she had fought on behalf ofAlaska natives, 19 years after
governor Grunin and signed thelaw in Alaska, president Lyndon,
B Johnson signed the landmarkcivil rights act of 1960.
And you know, I think in someways it was a long time that she
(44:48):
was not recognized as fully asshe should have been for her.
Campaigning for hercontributions to society as a
whole and to civil rights, itwasn't until let's see.
44 years after governor Gruninsigned the law February 16th was
(45:08):
established as the annualElizabeth Petrovich day 44 years
though.
It's a long time.
And in February, 2020, the 75thanniversary of the bill, she
fought for the U S mint released5 million,$1 coins commemorating
the anti-discrimination law of1945 with her image
Pearl (45:30):
Wow.
Andrew (45:31):
Yeah, I mean just,
Pearl (45:34):
yeah, she was a super,
Andrew (45:35):
so far ahead of her time in a way
Pearl (45:38):
Alaskan history, American history.
And of course in Native peopleYou know, one of the, one of the
reasons that I wanted to do thispodcast in the first place, this
podcast in general, not today'spodcast is because knowing our
history gives us context andcontext gives us empathy,
(46:02):
without having history contextand empathy, it is really
difficult to understand thelives and experiences of people
that shape the world around us.
And I think it's really easy tobe insulated in your own
perspectives and beliefs.
(46:23):
And simply regard anyone thatyou disagree with as wrong
instead of recognizing thattheir opinions, beliefs, and
worldview are shaped on realfacts that they have encountered
in their life.
And yeah, so far I feel like thew I think my main takeaway from
this podcast in general so farhas just been an increase in
(46:46):
empathy, to recognize that thecontext of where people have
been and where they're comingfrom and where peoples have been
coming from is really, reallycritical for understanding
people in general.
Andrew (46:57):
Yeah.
People have dramaticallydifferent backgrounds that need
to taken into account wheneveryou're having these important
discussions about where we areheaded.
need to know where we've
Pearl (47:13):
we came from.
Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew (47:16):
Very well said.
Pearl,
Pearl (47:17):
Thank you.
So that is the podcast fortoday.
We covered a lot of really kindof heavy stuff.
We also talked a lot about bugs,so I hope that that kind of
balanced it out for you.
You got a little bit of levityin your your serious podcast of
the day, and I would recommendI'm going to say it again, go to
YouTube and type in nativeAmericans, sterilization, or
(47:42):
the, what's the name of the ladythat you just
Andrew (47:43):
did.
Elizabeth Petrovich.
Pearl (47:45):
Yeah.
We're going to include her namein the show notes so that you
can actually copy and paste thatbecause
Andrew (47:50):
it's a long
Pearl (47:51):
it's a long name is a little bit of a doozy
Andrew (47:53):
although Google will usually help you with
Pearl (47:54):
yeah So, yeah.
Click on some of the links inour show notes.
Those are going to be in thepodcast description for each,
each episode.
In each episode we have thelinks.
We're also, we also have thelink for buying yourself a cup
of
Andrew (48:08):
good old Harney and sons
Pearl (48:09):
and sons tea
Andrew (48:10):
straight from Harney and
Pearl (48:12):
faster more delicious.
Don't buy it at target.
You guys.
Come on.
Andrew (48:18):
Thanks for listening.
Remember to rate, review, andsubscribe
Pearl (48:22):
and share it with your mom.
Andrew (48:25):
Bye.
Bye
It's like people who like Brussels sprouts and they're
like, well, first you coveredthem.
Bacon.
Andrew (00:05):
Verdun bacon cooking and bacon fat, and then dip it in
hot sauce.
I'm like, well, okay.
Pearl (00:10):
And then take a bite of bacon and then quickly to the
brussel sprout and then eat morebacon.
Andrew (00:15):
So, what you're telling me is that you like bacon
newsflash.
We already knew that.
Pearl (00:27):
So, welcome to the stories.
We forgot that's a AGA Hurst.
My hilarious husband.
Andrew (00:34):
That's my amazing wife, Pearl Hearst.
Welcome to the stories weforgot.
Pearl (00:40):
So today on the stories we've forgotten, we're going to
be talking about we're going tobe, we're still in March and
March is international women'shistory month.
And we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit more, but any,
any celebration or remembranceor conversation about women's
(01:00):
history month in United Stateswould be lacking if it did not
cover the lives of nativeAmerican women?
So today on the podcast, we'regoing to be talking about Just
some of the, some of theexperiences of native American
women in the United States.
Andrew (01:19):
Yeah.
We got some good stories today.
Pearl (01:20):
But first, what are you drinking?
AGA Hearst.
Andrew (01:24):
Well, Pearl Hearst, you made my drink.
So let me see if I can get itright.
I think we have today a mix ofhot cinnamon spice, Harney and
sons tea mixed with chocolatetea.
Is there a specific name for thechocolate tea?
Just chocolate.
It's really good.
It's kind of like a Mild makesthe hot cinnamon spice a little
(01:47):
more mild and quite tasty.
Very simple, no sweetener in it.
Just a little bit of milk.
Pearl (01:53):
Yeah.
It's sweet enough on its own.
Yeah, so I like to I was thekind of kid growing up.
If I got a chance to go to asoda machine with a cup.
You know, I mixed flavors.
Andrew (02:07):
Oh yeah.
The suicide.
Pearl (02:10):
well, we didn't call it that,
Andrew (02:11):
That's what I that's what I called it.
Pearl (02:13):
Yeah.
It was just kind of like, it waslike the ultimate experiment of
let's see.
And what, what, what one ring torule them all drink.
Can I create the ultimate drinkthat this machine can make same
thing with cold cereal?
I mean, if, if there's two typesof cold cereal, I'm not having
two separate bowls of coldcereal, I'm gonna mix them 100%.
(02:34):
I'm going to make them
Andrew (02:34):
Right.
You got to figure it out.
Pearl (02:36):
So I have some chocolate Harney and sons, which is a
black tea with notes ofchocolate.
And then I mixed it with theHarney and sons hot cinnamon
spice because the hot cinnamonspice tea, has so much
concentrated cinnamon and cloveflavor that it is sweet on its
own.
So this one doesn't need anyadditional sweeteners.
(02:56):
So I put the two together andI've got just kind of like a
chocolate.
Cinnamon Mexican hot chocolatekind of flavor
Andrew (03:03):
Oh, Mexican hot shot.
I was trying to think of aflavor profile that would,
Pearl (03:07):
with a little bit of milk in there.
Does it need any, does it needany sweetener?
So yeah, that's, that's whatwe're drinking today.
I've had several people tell mewith delight and surprise that
you can find Harney and sons attarget and Amazon.
And here's the thing.
You guys, you can find Harneyand sons and target and Amazon.
(03:28):
It's older.
It's staler and it's moreexpensive.
So if you want to try this tea,buy it on the website.
It's always free shipping and Ihave a$5 off coupon on The
stories we forgot.com so one ofthe cool things that's going to
be happening this spring that wejust realized kind of this
(03:49):
morning is that 2021 is the yearof the 17 year Cicada cycle.
So I'm coming from the Westcoast.
We literally knew nothing aboutcicadas.
I mean, I had heard about themthat they existed, but I didn't
actually know anything aboutthem.
And the first time weencountered cicadas, we were on
(04:12):
a trip to Washington DC.
This was years ago and we hearda Cicada up in the branches of a
tree and we were like, What isup in that tree was like
Andrew (04:23):
What kind of bird from hell is this?
Pearl (04:26):
it's like some weird metallic robot.
Like, it didn't sound natural ornormal at all.
We were so confused I think weactually recorded it on our
camera yeah.
So, but this is a 17 year Cicadacycle, so I think what happens,
and this is coming from a placeof,
Andrew (04:47):
Oh, right.
I just read today that theCicada pocalypse of 2004, that
was the 17 years.
I just, I just.
I did the math and realized thatwas
Pearl (04:58):
our 17 year
Andrew (04:59):
Oh So we really may be in for Cicada apocalypse too
Yeah.
Pearl (05:05):
So, having done zero research and only just briefly
glancing at news articles aboutthis, what I have surmised is
that cicadas live underground inlike a grub state for 17 years.
Andrew (05:23):
sucking on the roots of trees or something.
Pearl (05:26):
sucking on them,
Andrew (05:27):
That's what I read
Pearl (05:29):
feeding on tree and plant.
Andrew (05:33):
I mean their larva, they basically do probably suck on, I
don't know.
Pearl (05:37):
I dunno.
I dunno how larvae I don't wantto, I don't want to think about
larva eating anything.
That's disgusting.
So then, and again, not ascientist.
They are a historian, theyhatch, and I don't know,
there's, there's severaldifferent stages in their life
cycle that I'm really notfamiliar with.
(05:57):
All I know is that they go frombeing these, I think grubs
Andrew (06:02):
This is really well-researched
Pearl (06:04):
to being basically the most horrific, gigantic fly.
You can imagine.
They're literally, that's not afly, but they're literally like,
I dunno the size of a halfdollar coin or something maybe
bigger than
Andrew (06:19):
Oh.
While some of them are biggerSome of them get really big
They're like the their body islike the size of your thumb
Pearl (06:26):
Yeah They're they're just huge and they're not super
graceful So last summer the catswould just catch them and maim
them so they could play withthem And Oh gosh
Andrew (06:36):
Cats are disgusting.
Pearl (06:37):
So anyways long story short, we learned this morning
that cicadas are edible.
So.
Andrew (06:42):
food of the
Pearl (06:44):
Food of the future here's, here's the thing you
guys, here in the United Statesand in Western culture in
general, we do not eat bugs.
However, we do eat seafood.
We have no problem eating shrimpand crab and lobster.
(07:06):
Oysters.
I mean, oysters, you guys comeon and I eat oysters too, but
let's think about oysters first,
Andrew (07:13):
right?
You crack them open and they arenot
Pearl (07:16):
let's not think about oysters.
So
Andrew (07:19):
they are delicious though,
Pearl (07:20):
in a large part of the world, cicadas and other insects
are routinely eaten becausethey're, you know, a healthy
source of protein and fat and
Andrew (07:28):
even as a delicacy,
Pearl (07:29):
yeah, they're eaten on purpose.
We just eat them in the UnitedStates on accident.
Andrew (07:33):
On accident.
Pearl (07:34):
Yeah, just Google USDA
Andrew (07:37):
Oh, right.
Pearl (07:38):
What's what, what
Andrew (07:39):
allowable amounts in food.
Pearl (07:41):
right?
Yeah.
so we looked up a couple ofpreparation methods for them.
Apparently.
Here's what you do.
You catch them by hand becausethat's how easy they are to
catch you.
Just like pick them up and putthem on
Andrew (07:52):
and you want to catch them at a certain point where
they're still, they're stillsoft before they, their
exoskeleton hardens more orsomething.
Pearl (08:02):
So that's the preferred time to catch them.
You can eat them when, when theexoskeleton has hardened,
they're just crunching.
Andrew (08:07):
Yeah.
You can eat them anytime.
Pearl (08:09):
Yeah.
Andrew (08:09):
They're really at any time snack,
Pearl (08:11):
there aren't any time.
Snack, birthdays, holidays,family, get togethers.
Andrew (08:16):
Just keep a handful in the pantry for the kids,
Pearl (08:19):
Dog treats, kid treats.
So you you take the livecicadas.
If they're dead, you do not wantto be eating bugs that have
already died.
You want to make sure thatyou're the one that kills them,
Andrew (08:29):
Make sure they're fresh.
Pearl (08:30):
make sure they're freshly alive when you kill them.
This is horrific.
So you dump them into a pot ofboiling water for five minutes.
You pour them out in a strainer,in the sink, and then you pluck
off all the wings and lakes.
Just for texture, you cantotally eat them, but it's just
a texture thing.
And then you take these giantbodies Of cicadas,
Andrew (08:51):
the size of your thumb,
Pearl (08:52):
the size of your thumb.
You, you put them in a hot saucepan with some butter and garlic
Andrew (08:57):
And they were basically black in the video.
We
Pearl (09:00):
Well, not black,
Andrew (09:00):
they looked black, they were very dark.
Pearl (09:03):
I mean, yeah,
Andrew (09:03):
Like a giant black grub.
Pearl (09:05):
I started talking about it.
You fry them up with some butterand garlic and a
Andrew (09:10):
Cicada, scampi
Pearl (09:11):
on noodles.
You got Cicada scampi.
So
Andrew (09:13):
apparently they are best deep fried though.
Pearl (09:16):
That just seems like a lot of this.
It seems like a huge commitment,
Andrew (09:19):
but isn't Mo aren't most foods best deep any who, if you
eat Cicada, please let us knowwith pictures,
Pearl (09:29):
Yeah, for sure.
Andrew (09:30):
videos, preferably
Pearl (09:32):
we we'll we'll probably do this with the kids mostly
just for the
Andrew (09:36):
probably, maybe sorta kinda
Pearl (09:39):
We'll probably do it
Andrew (09:41):
We'll see.
Pearl (09:42):
mostly so we can record the kids eating the, I don't, I
don't know if I can eat aCicada.
Andrew (09:46):
I kind of want to eat just one.
I saw one, one recipe of makingcandied Cicada.
I'm thinking like a, like agiant tophi peanut, maybe.
Pearl (09:57):
Yeah.
See, I just kind of feel likethat's a waste of.
Good ingredients.
who do like, like chocolateflavor, crickets and stuff, just
eat the chocolate and then eat acricket don't ruin good
Andrew (10:09):
enough chocolate and it just totally covers up the
flavor.
Well, if you have to cover upthe flavor, maybe you just
shouldn't start with that asyour base.
Pearl (10:16):
It's like people who like Brussels sprouts and they're
like, well, first you coveredthem.
Bacon.
Andrew (10:21):
Verdun bacon cooking and bacon fat, and then dip it in
hot sauce.
I'm like, well, okay.
Pearl (10:27):
And then take a bite of bacon and then quickly to the
brussel sprout and then eat morebacon.
Andrew (10:32):
So, what you're telling me is that you like bacon
newsflash.
We already knew that.
Pearl (10:38):
Where are we going to start?
Where are we going to start asegment about debunking old
wives tales?
Andrew (10:43):
Oh, we were, I forgot about that.
Pearl (10:46):
So, so today on our segment debunking old wives
tales with AIG,
Andrew (10:51):
You make it sound so official,
Pearl (10:53):
It's super official.
It is now because this isofficially the second one.
So the old wives tale that we'regoing to be discussing today is
eating eight spiders a year inour sleep.
Andrew (11:05):
Oh, I have heard that, that you eat a certain amount of
Pearl (11:08):
average people eat eight spiders a year while they're
sleeping.
Andrew (11:12):
I have my own personal with
Pearl (11:15):
Okay.
So, so here's, here's how thisgets to bunked.
It gets debunked by you guys.
So we're going to tell you guys,our experiences, and then you
tell us whether or not you thinkthis is accurate.
Some people have called this anold wives tale, and that is not
accurate.
There are reasons to think thatit wouldn't be accurate,
including the fact that spidersare generally afraid of people.
And there's not a lot of, I, I'mnot really sure why a spider
(11:38):
would crawl into someone'smouth, which is going to be hot
and steamy.
And just, I don't know, itdoesn't seem like a place a
spider would want to go.
So, ADA, what are, what are yourspider experiences?
Andrew (11:51):
Oh, well I just remember, gosh, I was probably
16 or 17.
I'm trying to remember how old Iwas.
I don't remember if I was stillliving with my parents or not.
Anyways, was in bed.
And was sleeping with just apair of shorts, no shirt.
And I felt like a little tickleon my stomach.
(12:15):
And I think I must've just beenin that kind of like half
asleep, half awake.
And so I just brushed down on mystomach, just, you know, like a
little random itch and then Ifelt it again.
And I, I think at that point,
Pearl (12:33):
at that point you levitated like six feet in the
air
Andrew (12:37):
sleepy enough that I lifted up the sheet and I looked
down and I saw a spider crawlingup.
Wasn't a giant spider, but aspider crawling up my stomach.
So then yes, then I smacked it.
Got it off levitated out of bed.
And then I couldn't find it.
(12:59):
So then I was shaking out myblanket, my sheets, my pillow.
I pulled off the fitted sheet onmy bed, shook it out for like 10
minutes.
Finally, you know, If I had beenold enough, I'd have taken a
shot of whiskey and gone back tobed.
But I was like trying to come mymirror,
Pearl (13:21):
So that's your most recent Spire spider experience
wins when you were 14?
Andrew (13:25):
I was like
Pearl (13:27):
Okay
Andrew (13:29):
It's the most prominent one that I can remember.
So I'm not, I don't, yeah.
I don't know that I've had anyother More recent
Pearl (13:36):
So gosh, trying to think.
Seven or eight years ago.
We bought a an old farm houseway out in the country.
And not as glamorous as itsounds, trust me.
We bought a very, not glamorousfarmhouse out in the country.
And there was just.
An unreal amount of spiders inthat house.
Andrew (13:58):
Well, it had been abandoned for
Pearl (14:00):
it hadn't been lived in for many years.
So there's a couple ofexperiences living in the house
that I can vividly remember.
Experienced number one would bewaking up in the morning,
turning my head and seeing asquished spider on the pillow
next to me.
Andrew (14:16):
on the pillow.
Pearl (14:18):
knew that I squished it with my face.
Do you know how difficult it isto kill a spider on a pillow
with your face?
Andrew (14:26):
Right.
Hang on.
Wait a second.
Just recently I saw a spider inthe basement and I stepped on it
and it continued.
It got up.
Pearl (14:35):
Gave you the finger.
Yeah.
So, so that's kind of ahorrifying, they're like what's,
that was just like rubbing myface.
Andrew (14:41):
Oh,
Pearl (14:42):
It's just horrifying to think about
Andrew (14:44):
Oh, my fuzzy pillow.
Pearl (14:46):
then.
Then there was another time Iflipped back the blankets hopped
into bed and out of like theperipheral subconscious corner
of my mind's eye, I saw a littledark thing underneath the
blankets at the end of the bed.
And I dismissed it because, youknow, major spider phobia,
sometimes you just start seeingthings.
(15:07):
And then
Andrew (15:07):
Usually you see something like that and it turns
out to be nothing it's a shadow.
Pearl (15:10):
Yeah.
And then I just, I think I justforgot about it.
And the next morning I woke upand there's a dead spider
underneath there.
So, And then moving to Virginia,Obviously, there's a ton of
spiders in Virginia too, andI've had my own share of
Virginia spider experiences.
But I think the worst experienceI had in Virginia was
Andrew (15:32):
another mini legged
Pearl (15:34):
Virginia has house centipedes.
So basically
Andrew (15:37):
if you're not familiar with these things, just Google
it
Pearl (15:40):
from the entire Western half of the United States.
You probably don't know whatwe're talking about.
It looks like something thatcame out of a spaceship and it's
here to torment you and yourdreams.
Andrew (15:52):
Actually,
Pearl (15:53):
me of is it reminds me of a shorter version of the thing
that went in the guy's bellybutton in the middle.
Andrew (15:57):
That's what I was just going to say.
If you have seen the matrix, thelittle thing that crawls into
Keanu Reeves belly button inearly in the movie, just picture
that crawling around on yourwalls and ceiling
Pearl (16:10):
Yeah So, it's basically a cross between a centipede and a
spider.
It's like it's got a longcentipedes body and then just
massive long spider legs andit's incredibly lightening fast.
Andrew (16:23):
super fast
Pearl (16:24):
So, I was laying in bed and this was for some reason I F
I think that you had to begetting up.
This was during a work whereveryou were working for whatever
time do you have any get uppretty early.
And we hadn't had great sleepthe night before because a
hashtag for kids.
And I think your alarm was goingto go off at like 4:00 AM.
(16:45):
And so I did not, I did not wantto wake you up.
So what, what happened is inthat half asleep state, I felt
something run across my back.
It's like making me sweat, justthinking about it.
Andrew (17:04):
many, many legs.
Pearl (17:05):
felt many legs run across my back and having lived in a
house with spiders for so long,I knew what I needed to do.
You gotta, you gotta pull, yougotta make, take the first shot.
I rolled over
Andrew (17:21):
strike first, strike back, strike hard
Pearl (17:26):
basically I rolled over as fast as I could.
And I just, and again, I'm stillsleeping.
This is like in that half asleepstate, I'm just like, I just
gotta do this.
And I'm just crushing whateverit is into the sheets with my
back and just laying there andjust like shivering state of
terror because have I killed it?
Where is it?
(17:46):
What was it?
It's underneath my back, pinnedup against the sheets and it's
three 50.
So I don't want to wake you up
Andrew (17:56):
a M you mean?
Yeah.
Three 58.
Oh yeah.
Pearl (17:58):
Yeah.
So, yeah, we don't sleep at fouro'clock in the afternoon.
So the alarm went off, you gotup and I got up and there was
just legs everywhere.
Andrew (18:13):
but there is no body,
Pearl (18:14):
Yeah.
No body legs everywhere.
Nobody.
Andrew (18:18):
And these legs, mind you are like, I don't know for the
big ones, probably three to fourinches long.
Just the legs.
Pearl (18:25):
They're so big.
Yeah, so, I mean, superhorrific, super, super horrific
then.
The next night we're sitting inbed, we're watching show, we're
getting our Netflix and chill onand we walk, we see a massive
house and a pizza run across thewall and it's missing half of
its place.
(18:45):
So we killed it right there.
I got out and chase it down witha flip flop
Andrew (18:50):
because with those things, you really do have to
strike fast because I've, I hadone, one time where I saw it.
I saw it on the wall.
Pearl (18:59):
They're so fast So you need two people One person makes
eye contact with it and doesn'tlose it And the other person
that's for somebody to kill itwith
Andrew (19:06):
Well cause one time I was passing through the room on
my way to do something and I sawone on the wall and I was like
ah I should really probably killthat thing I went you know
stepped into the room for like10 seconds and came right back
out and it was gone already.
And it was like in the middle ofthe wall.
Yeah.
Nowhere to go or hide.
I looked for it like behindcurtains and everything.
(19:26):
Couldn't
Pearl (19:27):
How centipedes are incredibly adept at hiding too.
Oh, gosh, they just give me the
Andrew (19:32):
all right.
Pearl (19:33):
So,
Andrew (19:33):
boy, this is a real
Pearl (19:34):
Enough about
Andrew (19:35):
entomology
Pearl (19:36):
been talking a lot about
Andrew (19:37):
podcast from people who don't know much about
Pearl (19:40):
why, you know why today we're recording the lucky number
13 of our podcast.
So
Andrew (19:47):
can I tell you something though, as a child?
I remember I must've read abook.
Maybe it was like some kind ofRipley's believe it or not book
or something like
Pearl (19:54):
that that's very on brand for you
Andrew (19:56):
for awhile.
I, I kinda thought it would beawesome to be a forensic
entomologist.
Pearl (20:01):
And do what entomologists do.
Andrew (20:04):
Have you seen bones?
Pearl (20:05):
Oh, right.
Who is that?
Andrew (20:06):
Jack right.
Pearl (20:08):
It's his name?
Jack.
Andrew (20:09):
Oh man.
My mind just went blank.
The curly headed guy.
Pearl (20:12):
with curly hair.
Andrew (20:13):
Yeah.
He's a forensic entomologiststudies,
Pearl (20:17):
I don't know I feel
Andrew (20:18):
their effects
Pearl (20:19):
feel like forensic and entomologists basically look up
the life cycles of grubs, offlesh eating grubs.
That's basically all they do.
Andrew (20:26):
I mean, I could go into more detail, but it gets pretty
gross.
Pearl (20:29):
Yeah.
They're basically just studyinglarva stages
Andrew (20:31):
in dead bodies
Pearl (20:33):
in dead bodies.
That sounds like the combinationof the two most disgusting
things ever
Andrew (20:38):
kind of interesting.
you can pinpoint time of deathmoving along Should we get to
some history?
Pearl (20:45):
we should get to some history.
we have two different stories totalk about today,
Andrew (20:51):
give us your story for the pod
Pearl (20:52):
day on the pod, we're going to be talking about
something that hasdisproportionately affected
native American women.
So native American women are ina very high risk group.
They have always been in a veryhigh risk group for violence by
and large crimes against nativeAmerican women do not get
reported.
(21:12):
And they definitely don't getprosecuted.
So, this, this crime wasactually perpetuated by the U S
government surprise surprise.
So, You know, last week when wewere talking about Fannie Lou
Hamer and the what does she callit?
Andrew (21:30):
Mississippi appendectomy
Pearl (21:31):
Mississippi appendectomy.
Yeah, black women were not theonly ones who were subject to
sterilization without theirknowledge and consent.
From 1972, 1976.
So we're talking recent history,very recent history, the Indian
health services which was formedwithin the government of health,
(21:54):
education and welfare by the U Sgovernment was responsible for
sterilizing over 70,000 nativeAmerican women.
About 25% of women ofchildbearing age in the United
States.
There's evidence.
However, that suggests thatthese numbers may be much higher
as much as high as 42% of allnative American women of
(22:17):
childbearing including womenunder 18 in 1970, the birth rate
for native American women was3.29.
The average for non native womenin 1970 was 2.48 at the end of
the forced sterilization period,the native American birth rate
had dropped to 1.3.
(22:40):
So we're going to be talkingabout a eugenics in modern
history.
I think a lot of times when wethink about forced eugenics
we're thinking about 1920s andeven maybe 1950s, but we're
talking about the 1970s and TheIndian health services is a
(23:00):
government organization that wasbasically formed as a way to
provide health services fornative Americans.
Again, not Indians nativeAmericans, Indians are from
India.
And so it's kind of, it's justanother example of how, how
difficult it is for minoritiesto trust the government today.
(23:25):
Because of events in recenthistory that have very, very
clearly damaged that trust.
So the Indian health serviceswas formed as a result of the
United States need to fulfilltreaty obligations to native
Americans.
So I think the obligation wasthat the us was obligated to
(23:49):
provide healthcare.
So basically what we have thenis the, is the native Americans
needed to seek their health carethrough Indian health services?
They weren't it was much moredifficult slash impossible for
them to get healthcare and stillis to get healthcare through the
same routes that you and I wouldbecause they have to get it
(24:11):
through Indian health services,if they want it to be paid.
Andrew (24:15):
gosh, sometimes these things are set up and it's,
there's just such a conflict ofinterest.
And it's so convoluted.
Pearl (24:23):
This, the, the Indian health services is, has always
been dramatically underfunded.
It's just, it's kind of been alittle bit of a joke of a health
care service for.
Native people.
Andrew (24:37):
Yeah.
I
Pearl (24:37):
An example would be in 2014, their per capita, the
Indian health services percapita expenditures for patient
health services was 3,100compared to just over 8,000 per
capita, nationally.
So just to give you an idea ofthe amount of healthcare that
was spent per person nationallyversus per native American so
(25:00):
really underfunded.
So in the 1970s in the beginningof the 1970s, the.
Us government started to heavilypush birth control methods
towards native American womenbecause they wanted birth rates
to drop because you've got womenwho are who don't have access to
(25:23):
quality health care.
Their birth, their death rate ishigher.
With infants their infantmortality rate is higher as a
result and reservation lifedoesn't exactly set up people
for success, right?
So it's kind of like thisvicious cycle.
so what ended up happening wasthe the doctors operating within
(25:45):
the Indian health services.
And this is just kind of like,an example of systemic racism,
where you have the doctorswithin the health system.
Are, are working in a culturethat believes that, native
American women are unfitmothers.
They don't have the skills ortime to properly use other birth
(26:06):
control methods.
And they're much more likely tohave more children than they
intended.
So their natural response tothis was a sterilization and
there were several ways thatthey would sterilize native
American women first.
They would, tell them that theyneeded it and pressure them into
(26:27):
it within a very short timeframeso that they would get consent.
Andrew (26:30):
Right.
Don't give them time to think
Pearl (26:31):
Don't give them time to think about it.
The second way that they woulddo it is they would tell them
that they were reversible.
Hysterectomy is, are notreversible.
We're talking about primarily.
We're talking about primarilyhysterectomy and tubal
ligations.
I don't know if tubal ligationis reversible.
That might be a scenario whereit could be, but most likely not
(26:54):
either way.
And then the third andpotentially much more common
method was just to not tell themat all.
To include it in otherprocedures that they were
already going in for to misleadthem strongly into signing
paperwork, you know, sayinglike, Oh, this is the permission
slip for your painkillers.
Go ahead and sign off on this.
And it was actually thepermission slip, granting them
(27:17):
the rights to a sterilization.
Andrew (27:19):
Very easy to slip in some other paperwork.
Pearl (27:22):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
Right.
Andrew (27:23):
So they could probably legally be covered.
Pearl (27:26):
so in, in the years of 1970 to 1976, between 25 to 42%
of native American women weresterilized using these methods,
Andrew (27:37):
Wow.
That's a huge
Pearl (27:39):
It is huge.
It's a huge amount.
And one of the things that makesthis unique is that all other
races in the United States havea gene pool outside of the
United States.
But if we wipe out nativeAmericans, that's the end of
that journey.
(27:59):
Right There are no other nativeAmericans and other countries so
the tragedy then is this kind offorced mass extinction where we
are cutting the, the birth rateof this nation within a nation
over in half, by over half,within six years.
Andrew (28:17):
Right.
Right.
Their birth rate dropped morethan half.
yeah.
Yeah
Pearl (28:22):
There's multiple examples of teenagers going in for
procedures like tonsillectomiesand getting tubal ligations.
Of course act appendectomies, innative American culture, the
ability to reproduce was, was areally sacred, part of humanity
and womanhood.
Andrew (28:43):
I mean, as it has it, as it is in most a certain extent,
Pearl (28:49):
I believe in native American culture.
So this forced sterilizationdramatically affected the mental
health of the women that had hadtheir fertility taken away from
them, uh
Andrew (29:02):
Especially if they didn't really know for sure.
Or they didn't certainly if theydidn't consent to it, but then
down the road, if they've kindof,
Pearl (29:11):
Or even if they did consent to it and they, and they
realized after the fact thatthey had been pressured into
something that they actuallydidn't want.
You know?
And so then they've got thisfeeling of complicity.
Andrew (29:22):
Well and this is I mean this is also in the seventies
when you know modern medicine iskind of exploding and but
there's also not the internetwhere you can go on and find all
kinds of other information tosupport or contradict what
(29:43):
you're hearing from the doctor Imean right now you could hear
something from your doctor andyou could type it into Google
and get 20,000 articles Eitherconfirming or contradicting it
and you can have lots ofinformation to process this back
then It was like who else areyou going to go to
Pearl (30:00):
and too, it's also important to point out that this
period of.
Forced sterilization was not wasnot limited to native American
women.
It also dramatically affectedblack women and Latino women.
So I think I think that nativeAmerican women through the
Indian health services had avery high vulnerability to this
(30:22):
because it was their specifichealth care system that was
sterilizing them.
The other really devastatingpart about this story is that
during this period in history, Idon't think it's the case
anymore, but during this periodin history this is coming off of
like the 1960s war on poverty.
And the number of people onwealth care is dramatically
(30:44):
increasing in an attempt toraise the standard of living.
Most doctors at this time arestill white males.
And they're kind of a, there'skind of like this general boys
club belief that they're helpingthe government cut, cut Medicaid
(31:04):
and welfare spending by reducingthe birth rate in these people,
groups that are heavilydepending on it.
So, one of the things that theyhad was economic incentives
physicians could increase theirincome by performing
hysterectomies and othersterilization procedures.
So, instead of saying, you know,instead of prescribing
(31:27):
alternative and inexpensivemethods of birth control to
these women and educating themthey would simply perform,
perform a sterilizationprocedure and be heavily
compensated
Andrew (31:42):
Hmm.
Pearl (31:43):
It was also common in this period of medical history
for doctors to get experience inobstetrics and gynecology
working with minority women toget experience on the government
on the government's dime becauseyou know, they could, they could
practice improve their skillsetand then go work at hospitals,
(32:04):
serving white women.
After they've, you know,practiced on the bodies of,
minority women.
Andrew (32:11):
Yeah.
Sad.
Just kind of a general abuse ofpower.
Really?
Pearl (32:18):
Yeah.
It's, it's a massive abuse ofpower.
And it wasn't there was multiplegroups that were recognizing and
protesting and this, and itwasn't until 1977 that this
basically came to light and,forced sterilization was, it
wasn't stopped, but they put inmore benchmarks and rules that
(32:41):
would help women to not getsterilized.
It's also really critical topoint out that one of the things
that shaped fear aroundsterilization for native
American women was that becausethey were arguing against a
government entity.
In saying we did not consent tothis.
(33:03):
they were afraid thatauthorities might take them,
take away their welfare benefitsor even worse remove their
children which was not anextreme, which was not an
extreme fear to have.
It was a, not an overreaction byany, by any sense.
It wasn't until 1978 that theIndian child welfare act was
(33:24):
enacted.
I think if I remember correctly,that means that native children
can not be adopted into nonnative homes anymore.
I mean, not native children canbe in foster care, but I don't
think they can be adopted tosomeone outside of their tribe.
and that, and that It may seemlimiting today to a child who
(33:46):
needs, who needs a good home,but that also stopped a massive
trend for native Americanchildren of removing them from
their native American cultureand removing the last bits of
their culture from them andtheir family and turning them
into essentially white children.
Andrew (34:05):
We see the flip side where I've heard that, that it's
very difficult to place nativechildren in adoption, but
without having the context ofwhy those were, why those laws
and regulations were put inplace, it's it's D you got to
understand both sides of
Pearl (34:27):
Yeah.
So in September of 1977, thenational council of churches in
our, in a religious foundationfor community organization went
to Washington DC for aconference to fight
sterilization abuse.
And they had over 60 delegatesof native American, Hispanic
(34:47):
African-American and otherleaders attended this conference
and they kind of just addressedthe abuses.
I think with right within theIndian health services, the
Indian health services nevercame out and said let's
sterilize native American women.
But the trickle down effect ofthe systemic racism at the time
(35:10):
shaped the ideologies of thedoctors that were working for
the Indian health services.
And so then these doctors weretaking matters into their own
hands.
So, about 19, 1976, I think thenthey started to the U S
government started toinvestigate.
And see if there was any truthto these, to these claims.
(35:30):
And once everything came tolight then, then it was stopped.
But yeah, so I wanted to Iwanted to highlight this story
today because I think it'simportant for us to recognize
that life in the United States,as Americans has been a
different experience for nativeAmerican women than it has been
(35:53):
for other women.
And my family doesn't have ahistory of forced sterilization.
You know, this isn't somethingthat my mom my mom or her
siblings or peers experienced.
But if I was a native Americanwoman, that would very much be
the case.
(36:13):
And
Andrew (36:14):
right.
Pearl (36:15):
you
Andrew (36:15):
to 40% you said,
Pearl (36:17):
Yeah.
It would shape you dramatically.
And it would just kind of shapeyour your ability to Trust will
definitely shape your ability totrust the government, but it
also just kind of shape youroverall outlook on living in the
United States and your value asa human and the ability that you
(36:41):
have to be heard and listenedto.
Andrew (36:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Particularly by the overwhelmingwhite majority of the Hmm.
Pearl (36:55):
So I wanted to, I wanted to highlight this story and the
next story that you're going totalk about too.
Just simply because,
Andrew (37:01):
it ties into it a little
Pearl (37:02):
yeah, I think with.
With with women's history month,this isn't a month where we're
talking about, Oh, this is thefirst woman who did this and
this woman did this cool thing.
And here's so-and-so who wasamazing.
We know women are amazingbecause they're humans, so
that's not surprising, but Ithink it's, it's important to
recognize a women's historymonth so that we understand the
(37:27):
the things that have happened inthe past and how they shape our
present and future.
Andrew (37:33):
Yes.
The next story that I'll bepresenting is about Elizabeth
and I hope that I'm saying herlast name correctly.
I saw multiple differentpronunciations.
So the one I'm going with wasthe one given by a woman who was
speaking during Elizabeth day inAlaska.
(37:56):
the best article I found on itwas actually from the federal
highway administration site.
Well, she was ElizabethWanamaker born in Petersburg,
Alaska.
She in 1911, she is a member ofthe Tlingit nation.
She was adopted by theWanamaker's She spoke, tilling
(38:19):
it and English grew up quitepoor while experiencing
discrimination by theterritory's white residents.
There were commonly seen signson businesses and different
facilities that said, no nativesallowed many signs would say, no
dogs, comma, no natives.
(38:42):
Or we catered a white trade.
Only natives were restricted andwhere they could live, which
hospitals would accept them,which restaurants or theaters
they could enter.
They could send their childrenonly to Indian schools.
Elizabeth was fortunate.
She was able to go to catch acat high school, which had been
integrated as a result of alawsuit filed by a Tlingit
(39:03):
leader.
Then in 1933, she married Royalso at clean it um also at
clean it, in 1941.
They moved to Juneau, Alaska andRoy, her husband was the leader
of the Alaska nativebrotherhood.
(39:24):
And Elizabeth was grandpresident of the Alaska native
sisterhood.
That year they spotted a nonatives allowed sign on the door
of the Douglas in, in Juno withthe U S having just entered
world war two, 1941, right?
They were outraged by this signof discrimination.
(39:45):
They wrote to governor earnestgrinning.
The proprietor of Douglas indoes not seem to realize that
our native boys are just aswilling as the white boys to lay
down their lives to protect thefreedom that he enjoys.
The sign was an outrage.
They said that was the start ofprimarily, I believe her
campaign.
(40:06):
But also with the support of herhusband and the support of
governor Grunin to pass ananti-discrimination bill through
the territorial legislature in1943, however it failed in the
house by a tie vote.
So her, so Elizabeth and herhusband, Roy traveled around the
state, urging native Americansto join, join up with them for
(40:27):
their fight for justice in 1945,the house, which now included
two natives passed that samebill, which went to the Senate
where it had enough votes topass.
However, during some of thediscourse and debate of this
one, opponent to the billSenator Allen Shattuck asked
(40:49):
quote, who are these peoplebarely out of savagery who want
to associate with us whites with5,000 years of recorded
civilization behind us andquote.
No, I think we should pause onthat just for a second and see,
so that was in 1945 and how thatties into your story Pearl of
(41:09):
just that continued racistideology and you see it with,
you know, the treatment of blackpeople, of, of any of these
minorities, where they are stillconsidered, you know, these
quote unquote savages, or just astep up from like, they are not
(41:33):
as evolved as the whitecivilization is.
And if you believe that, or ifyou were taught,
Pearl (41:42):
native women do not have the intelligence necessary to
operate basic birth
Andrew (41:47):
control.
Right.
And that was just so heavilyingrained in people's.
Hearts and minds of the timethat then it's not that far of a
jump to go to forcedsterilization.
It's think that you're doingthis noble cause and helping out
(42:08):
the
Pearl (42:09):
the government Cubs spending the government to cut
spending too.
It's
Andrew (42:13):
Right.
You're helping everybody And ofcourse, those are just
horrendous thoughts and, andneed to be stamped out, but they
were so prevalent.
And that wasn't that long agothat a Senator would make those
comments during an officialdebate of a bill in 1945.
During the public comment periodof this same debate time after
(42:38):
those comments, by the SenatorElizabeth who always knitted
while attending legislativesessions, put down her needles
to speak, Quote, I would nothave expected that I, who am
barely out of savagery wouldhave to remind the gentlemen
with 5,000 years of recordedcivilization behind them of our
bill of rights in quote, micdrop, boom.
(43:02):
After she described therestrictions, her family faced
and the discrimination withthese signs that were up in the.
The discriminatory acts bypeople in Alaska.
The Senator asked if she thoughtthe bill would end
discrimination.
She replied, quote, do your lawsagainst larceny and even murder.
(43:22):
Prevent those crimes.
No law will eliminate crimes,but at least you, as legislators
can assert to the world that yourecognize the evil of the
present situation and speak yourintent to help us overcome
discrimination and quote, thegallery broke out in loud
applause.
The bill passed the Senate,which according to one account
(43:43):
was forced to a defensivewhisper at the close of that
Senate hearing by a five footfive inch tilling it woman.
And on February 16th, 1945,governor Rooney and approved the
country's first, the country'sfirst anti-discrimination law.
This was 19 years before thecivil rights law of 1964.
(44:06):
I believe.
Unfortunately, ElizabethPetrovich died on December 1st,
1958 at the age of 47 of breastcancer.
She lived long enough to see therough early years of the civil
rights movement during which therest of the country battled with
the same types of discriminationagainst African-Americans that
(44:27):
she had fought on behalf ofAlaska natives, 19 years after
governor Grunin and signed thelaw in Alaska, president Lyndon,
B Johnson signed the landmarkcivil rights act of 1960.
And you know, I think in someways it was a long time that she
(44:48):
was not recognized as fully asshe should have been for her.
Campaigning for hercontributions to society as a
whole and to civil rights, itwasn't until let's see.
44 years after governor Gruninsigned the law February 16th was
(45:08):
established as the annualElizabeth Petrovich day 44 years
though.
It's a long time.
And in February, 2020, the 75thanniversary of the bill, she
fought for the U S mint released5 million,$1 coins commemorating
the anti-discrimination law of1945 with her image
Pearl (45:30):
Wow.
Andrew (45:31):
Yeah, I mean just,
Pearl (45:34):
yeah, she was a super,
Andrew (45:35):
so far ahead of her time in a way
Pearl (45:38):
Alaskan history, American history.
And of course in Native peopleYou know, one of the, one of the
reasons that I wanted to do thispodcast in the first place, this
podcast in general, not today'spodcast is because knowing our
history gives us context andcontext gives us empathy,
(46:02):
without having history contextand empathy, it is really
difficult to understand thelives and experiences of people
that shape the world around us.
And I think it's really easy tobe insulated in your own
perspectives and beliefs.
(46:23):
And simply regard anyone thatyou disagree with as wrong
instead of recognizing thattheir opinions, beliefs, and
worldview are shaped on realfacts that they have encountered
in their life.
And yeah, so far I feel like thew I think my main takeaway from
this podcast in general so farhas just been an increase in
(46:46):
empathy, to recognize that thecontext of where people have
been and where they're comingfrom and where peoples have been
coming from is really, reallycritical for understanding
people in general.
Andrew (46:57):
Yeah.
People have dramaticallydifferent backgrounds that need
to taken into account wheneveryou're having these important
discussions about where we areheaded.
need to know where we've
Pearl (47:13):
we came from.
Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew (47:16):
Very well said.
Pearl,
Pearl (47:17):
Thank you.
So that is the podcast fortoday.
We covered a lot of really kindof heavy stuff.
We also talked a lot about bugs,so I hope that that kind of
balanced it out for you.
You got a little bit of levityin your your serious podcast of
the day, and I would recommendI'm going to say it again, go to
YouTube and type in nativeAmericans, sterilization, or
(47:42):
the, what's the name of the ladythat you just
Andrew (47:43):
did.
Elizabeth Petrovich.
Pearl (47:45):
Yeah.
We're going to include her namein the show notes so that you
can actually copy and paste thatbecause
Andrew (47:50):
it's a long
Pearl (47:51):
it's a long name is a little bit of a doozy
Andrew (47:53):
although Google will usually help you with
Pearl (47:54):
yeah So, yeah.
Click on some of the links inour show notes.
Those are going to be in thepodcast description for each,
each episode.
In each episode we have thelinks.
We're also, we also have thelink for buying yourself a cup
of
Andrew (48:08):
good old Harney and sons
Pearl (48:09):
and sons tea
Andrew (48:10):
straight from Harney and
Pearl (48:12):
faster more delicious.
Don't buy it at target.
You guys.
Come on.
Andrew (48:18):
Thanks for listening.
Remember to rate, review, andsubscribe
Pearl (48:22):
and share it with your mom.
Andrew (48:25):
Bye.
Bye
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