May 9, 2021 • 34 mins
Join us for todays journey into the not so distant past and meet two heroes from WW2. You'll learn about Phyllis Latour Doyle and her work as a spy for the British Secret Service and a Navy Messman named Charles Jackson French who only received a commendation for saving the lives of 24 wounded sailors.
Sources:
- https://www.amightygirl.com/blog?p=25020
- https://cryptologicfoundation.org/what-we-do/stimulate/women-in-cryptology.html/title/-phyllis-latour-doyle-the-forgotten-spy-whose-knitting-helped-pave-the-way-for-d-day
- https://medium.com/@srinath.shreya/secrets-in-silk-e90b2a763f09
- https://ishof.org/assets/charles-jackson-french_article.pdf
- https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/black-swimming-history-a-world-war-ii-hero/
- https://www.washingtoninformer.com/remembering-a-forgotten-world-war-ii-hero/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aj (00:00):
Oh right here then
Pearl (00:02):
Hello Hello Hello
Aj (00:05):
and
Pearl (00:06):
Welcome to the stories we forgot
Aj (00:09):
That's my beautiful beautiful beautiful wife Pearl
Pearl (00:12):
And that's my amazing husband AIG Hearst You've come
to the history podcast by nonhistorians for non historians
That's you were good at Googlingyour good at listening It's your
favorite podcast
Aj (00:25):
At least we hope that's you We hope that you're not a
historian
Pearl (00:29):
Gosh if you're a historian much apologies many
apologies I
Aj (00:35):
in advance for what you're about to hear
Pearl (00:37):
Also I think it would be really funny to have a historian
listen to our podcast and thenrecord their you know like a
reaction video where they'relike responding to it in real
time No 1937 37 Oh These peopleare messing it up streaming
crazy
Aj (00:52):
Oh that would be That would be so bad
Pearl (00:56):
bad for us But funny entertaining how are you guys
doing it's may it's the middleof may almost It is beautiful
outside It's almost the middleof may
Aj (01:13):
What is
Pearl (01:14):
It's like the eighth or
Aj (01:16):
It is it's the eighth
Pearl (01:19):
Exactly It's beautiful outside
Aj (01:21):
say that's in the middle of may though
Pearl (01:22):
it's close to the middle of
Aj (01:24):
It is beautiful Outside
Pearl (01:26):
Yeah we're just
Aj (01:27):
Trees are blooming
Pearl (01:28):
second pandemic summer So just kinda I'm wondering how our
second pandemic summer is goingto fare for most people I know a
lot of people are gettingvaccinated but coronavirus has
not gone away So what does thatlook like I mean last summer a
lot of people started gardens Ithink a lot of gardens didn't
(01:50):
get finished
Aj (01:52):
I think a lot of gardens probably died
Pearl (01:54):
died Yeah
Aj (01:55):
of like ours so far this year
Pearl (01:58):
I just yeah I need to go out and I need to water it more
Aj (02:01):
Oh watering
Pearl (02:03):
That's what we're missing need water
Aj (02:07):
knew there was something we were missing Well we also have a
new dog and he likes to jump inthe garden beds
Pearl (02:13):
he's terrible
Aj (02:14):
probably destroyed most of what starts to come up
Pearl (02:17):
Yeah Unfortunately I just need to I'm waiting to
transplant as late as I can Sothe plants can be a little more
established so that when youwhen he steps on them they're
not immediately crushed with thefirst step but Yeah
Aj (02:30):
Well the training we can work on him now We got a little
shock collar thing too Don'tjudge us
Pearl (02:36):
mostly a buzz collar but also he's I mean he's just kind
of he's a goober and he listenswhen he wants to And the
neighbors have we were our yardis up against a cow pasture and
there's a bunch of a bunch ofcows in there with calves and he
just likes to go in there andbark at them And he's a massive
(02:58):
pest
Aj (02:59):
I mean he's technically a hurting
Pearl (03:01):
He is technically hurting dog and he weighs all of like 19
pounds but he's very annoying tothe cows And so we're trying to
train him not to go in there butman if he gets super engaged in
a stare down with you know Idon't know a thousand pound cow
Aj (03:18):
Or if you really wants to eat cow poop
Pearl (03:20):
or if he really I mean the cow poop is like That is so
fascinated Both of the dogs justlove it They they find a cow
Patty and they're just out therefor you Can't call them back
Aj (03:29):
So to all you people who allow dogs to lick your face
Pearl (03:32):
don't do it No one should ever let a dog lick their face
Even if your dog is an indooronly dog I just don't even know
Yeah
Aj (03:42):
Dogs No no bounds
Pearl (03:44):
They just they have no boundaries Yeah see
Aj (03:46):
interesting things happen this week
Pearl (03:48):
Well
Aj (03:49):
a birthday
Pearl (03:50):
had a birthday We had a birthday week
Aj (03:52):
We try to do birthday
Pearl (03:54):
of our kids turned 11
Aj (03:56):
Yeah So we spread it out a little bit And what on Monday we
had ice cream for lunch whichwas a big
Pearl (04:03):
well and I wasn't actually planning on skipping
lunch And having ice creaminstead But we were going to run
errands And so we swung bythere's this ice cream place
that we like to take the kids toIt's called Grammy's ice cream
Aj (04:15):
Grammy's ice
Pearl (04:16):
And I don't know what kind of ice cream they serve but
there's like 40 flavors orsomething So it's you know
Aj (04:21):
it's good
Pearl (04:22):
the the sheer number of flavors is what gets the kids
because they just feel like theyhave so many options You go look
at a wall of 40 flavors and it'slike the world is
Aj (04:31):
The nice thing is at least the two oldest can read their
own lists off the two youngestWe still have to read it through
but they're actually fairlydecisive because one of them
decides and than the other onewants exactly what the other one
Pearl (04:43):
right Yeah It's it's our it's our first born That is not
decisive Yes That would beviolent She just she's got major
FOMO when it comes to ice creamflavors major fear of missing
out So uh yeah we had ice creamfor lunch because then we went
and ran errands and all of asudden it was like four o'clock
and no one had had any lunchexcept for ice cream
Aj (05:03):
who wants to dinner
Pearl (05:05):
Yeah Oh the kids and I did some science experiments
with Mentos and
Aj (05:10):
wasn't science
Pearl (05:11):
it was definitely science We even tried out different
types of Coke We did like thestore brand whatever the store
ran was we did diet sugar We didfour total I remember what all
the different
Aj (05:25):
why don't you tell them what you were doing
Pearl (05:27):
What do you mean We're trying to make them explode
Aj (05:30):
Yeah You haven't said anything about that
Pearl (05:33):
I I said Coke Experiments
Aj (05:36):
You said science
Pearl (05:37):
Oh science experiments Oh yeah So we were doing you know
the Mentos and the Coke bottlesAnd instead of doing the geysers
cause honestly the geysersaren't super impressive but we
saw
Aj (05:48):
need to figure out how to do it better
Pearl (05:49):
Yeah we saw some we were watching I was watching our
favorite one of our favoriteYouTube channels with the kids
and this YouTube channel iscalled crazy Russian hacker I
wholeheartedly recommend it Ican't remember if it's a hundred
percent kid safe I'm pretty sureit is I think I think the only
reason I would say not to watchit with your kids is because Of
the ideas that they're going toget Right Um yeah it's hilarious
(06:13):
This guy's a really strongRussian accent and he's just
like walking you through He'scrazy
Aj (06:19):
I mean he does emphasize safety every
Pearl (06:21):
Yeah
Aj (06:22):
The number one
Pearl (06:23):
That's yeah but we were watching him do these mento Coke
bombs where basically you haveto let the coax that out in the
sun until it re tilts warm Youget a better reaction with warm
Coke and then you screw up thelid you dump all the Mentos in
or no Yeah I can't refusedumping I think he was taping
them to the inside lip So theyweren't dropping in like making
(06:47):
a little tape rope of Mentos andjust like lowering it in and
then squeezing the lid shakingit up her tiny lid shaking it up
really really hard and thenthrowing it up in the air and
then it hits the pavement andjust like Goes off like a bomb
It was amazing So we only got itto actually explode one time out
of the four
Aj (07:05):
think we need to do
Pearl (07:06):
where yeah So it exploded out the back and just like shot
down the driveway like a
Aj (07:11):
Yeah But then the dogs were trying to eat
Pearl (07:13):
yeah So then yeah we did not calculate we didn't count on
the dogs loving the Mentos andpeppermint flavored stuff makes
animals puke like crazy
Aj (07:22):
Oh that's
Pearl (07:23):
figured that out We figured that out Christmas
before last we had a massivegingerbread house We can
competition at our house andthere was just peppermint crank
candy cane stuff everywhere Andthe cat of course was you know
eating getting into everythingAnd then all of a sudden he just
started puking all over thehouse And I was like what is
(07:44):
wrong with this cat And then Ilooked it up and of course
peppermint makes cats puke Soyeah so we were just there was
just a mad scramble to find allthe Mentos and prime out of
dog's mouths and stuff
Aj (07:57):
cause no one wants dogs to Cause then they eat
Pearl (08:00):
because if they puke they're going to puke up Cal
poop in your house
Aj (08:04):
Okay Moving along
Pearl (08:06):
Right I'm just keeping it real This is just normal Okay
let's see Oh the other thingthat I wanted to talk about and
I'm telling you but I also liketo hear some feedback listeners
so polar bears have been or noI'm yeah I'm not sure if it's
polar bears changing theirhabitat or grizzly bears
(08:26):
changing their habitat buteither way the habitats of polar
bears and grizzly bears havebeen overlapping so uh due to
you know global
Aj (08:37):
climate change
Pearl (08:38):
climate change and when they're overlapping they're
crossbreeding which I didn'tknew we don't try to know that
Grizzlies and polar bears wouldcross-breed but yeah So the
official name
Aj (08:49):
strange that they would that they would naturally Crossbreed
Pearl (08:53):
Yeah I'm not sure how I'm not sure What
Aj (08:56):
where did you get this news source from was say called the
national Inquirer
Pearl (09:01):
Nice try No it was the internet Come on I can't
remember but
Aj (09:05):
Oh the internet is much more legit than the national inquire
Pearl (09:10):
Oh yeah I'm pretty sure I read it on Reddit no I'm
Aj (09:12):
cool Cool cool cool cool
Pearl (09:13):
The name That has been given to these crossbreeds is
piss Liebherr
Aj (09:19):
That is such a terrible name
Pearl (09:21):
I just feel like we owe it to Piz Liebherr's to give
them a better name we're talkingabout
Aj (09:28):
cozy bears
Pearl (09:30):
That's also bad
Aj (09:31):
I feel like it's even better than
Pearl (09:32):
Oh it's
Aj (09:32):
His Lee is
Pearl (09:33):
Bears is so bad We're talking about the ferocity of a
grizzly bear and the size of apolar bear This is like a liger
Aj (09:45):
A mythical creature with magical
Pearl (09:47):
likers her real
Aj (09:49):
I wish I could remember the line
Pearl (09:50):
I know
Aj (09:50):
Napoleon
Pearl (09:51):
I know I feel like our kids are old enough that we
could watch Napoleon dynamitewith them but
Aj (09:56):
would they enjoy it as much as
Pearl (09:58):
I just feel like there's so many there's so many weird
jokes in that movie They justwould not get like
Aj (10:07):
might be surprised
Pearl (10:09):
Well like the part where she comes up I can't remember
remember any names part whereshe comes up to the door with
her her Kaboodle and she's likeselling stuff And she's got her
hair in the side ponytail like Ithink I think my kids I just I
don't know I don't I don't knowwhat they would think they would
have no
Aj (10:25):
The whole scene is hilarious to us
Pearl (10:29):
because you have some reference like yeah Caboodles
were really hot And so we'reside ponytails I I had dreams of
having side ponytails or likewhat happened yesterday was
talking to Henry about Telephoneor no we were talking about
talking about the differencebetween digital cameras and film
(10:49):
cameras and I was driving So Iwas having a tough time like
explaining it very well Plusit's I mean I don't really
understand how to explain itvery well and I it kind of
trailed off and ended it withand that's how pictures were
taken in the olden days I didn'treally know how to finish that
sentence You know back in theolden days I mean we saw we're
(11:12):
at this old thrift store with abunch of weird stuff The other
day I took the kids to it and wesaw this like wall phone from
the nineties Like I'm talkinglike you know it hooks on the
screw that you screw on the walland it's not cordless And the
kids were just like They thoughtit was so cool
Aj (11:31):
was it a corded phone or a cordless Okay
Pearl (11:34):
Just like basic model plastic not cool
Aj (11:39):
We should see if we can find like an old tape player in a
couple of
Pearl (11:42):
Oh my gosh It would blow their minds and then show them a
pencil and be like can you guesswhat this is used for You will
in about two hours when thiswhole thing falls apart
Aj (11:52):
when it eats your tape and you're trying to rewind the
stupid thing
Pearl (11:55):
Oh man But yeah it was just hilarious because they're
just like Whoa sick phone dudeThat's so cool
Aj (12:04):
Yes We were just watching a new show on Netflix
Pearl (12:09):
you and me What was it
Aj (12:10):
yeah Yeah The art robbery
Pearl (12:11):
Oh yeah the our heist
Aj (12:13):
it called The greatest art robbery
Pearl (12:15):
I mean that's the description I don't remember I
don't remember what it's called
Aj (12:18):
I think that might be what it's called Yeah I don't know
Pearl (12:21):
It's about some art thieves breaking into a museum
of Boston And basically this islike a 91
Aj (12:27):
94 I think
Pearl (12:29):
No I think it's 91
Aj (12:30):
Oh yeah I think you're right
Pearl (12:31):
I think it's 91 I don't know Anyways
Aj (12:35):
uh at one point at one point it cracked me up because they
said that there were securitycameras in the museum but the
thieves knew where the VHS tapewas So they took the
Pearl (12:48):
VHS tape
Aj (12:50):
And that's mind boggling today because a a it would be on
a hard drive or something or itwould probably just go to the
cloud it just yeah
Pearl (12:59):
we were
Aj (12:59):
brought back so many memories
Pearl (13:00):
Oh what was that Mark Walberg movie where it's with
Mark Walberg analyze a slushy
Aj (13:08):
Oh Spencer confidential
Pearl (13:10):
confidential and he has to get the tapes The security
tapes and he's like where's thetapes and the kid behind the
counter is like I dunno they'rein the cloud And he's like
where's the cloud dude You'retoo old for this joke Nevermind
Aj (13:24):
That was kind of funny
Pearl (13:25):
Yeah yeah So let's see
Aj (13:29):
well rolling right into that Can I do
Pearl (13:32):
do it Yeah Go for it What are we
Aj (13:33):
time for this day in history history history history history
That was
Pearl (13:40):
He does He only does this for you
Aj (13:41):
that was a full five echoes just for Alex Doyle
Pearl (13:44):
five echos
Aj (13:45):
This is just quick in Oh May 7th, 1994 So not too long after
that art robbery that we werereading about Edward munches the
scream Recovered after theft Isthat how you say his name It's
not like monk is it or
Pearl (14:03):
I don't know I'd have to Google it And then you know I
just
Aj (14:07):
Seventh 1994 the North Norway's most famous painting
The scream is recovered almostthree months after it was stolen
from a museum in Oslo it wasfound undamaged at a hotel The
painting was stolen Hang on thisI just thought this was funny
after watching that art robberyIt was stolen in 50 seconds So
(14:29):
under a minute during a break induring the opening day of the
winter Olympics two thievesbroke through a window cut a
wire holding the painting to thewall and left a note reading
thousand Thanks for the badsecurity yeah And just so then
the thieves were found it waslike These people who had stolen
other stuff before And that wasthe interesting thing in this
(14:51):
documentary is they're like mainsuspect is a guy who's they're
like Oh yeah he stoled thismillion dollars worth of
paintings And then thesepaintings and then he fled and
all these
Pearl (15:02):
and they said how many how many times have you stolen
art And he said over 30 timesHow how many times are the
police aware of it And he saidOnly a few sometimes something
like that where it's like whyisn't he in prison he's he's
admitting to multiple
Aj (15:18):
These guys just keep getting out and stealing more stuff I
mean I guess maybe you knowmaybe it's not a violent crime
and it's not punished veryheavily Or maybe if the
paintings are recovered I don'tknow But it just seemed kind of
silly that these guys just keepgetting out well And even the
The guy who stole the scream heescaped while they were on a
(15:40):
field trip or something And thenthey found him like 10 days
later wearing dark glasses and ablonde wig trying to get on a
train but
Pearl (15:48):
Subtle very subtle
Aj (15:49):
art heists It's a real thing
Pearl (15:52):
Yeah Apparently you can make a real living doing this
Aj (15:54):
well cause in that Netflix
Pearl (15:55):
and then you get get out and you've got all your money
still
Aj (15:57):
Yeah You just go find where you stash the painting I guess
And uh you know bada Bing badaboom We've got it all figured
out Well those ones in thatNetflix documentary they've
still never been recovered andit's like$200 million worth of
paintings
Pearl (16:12):
paintings
Aj (16:13):
Although I wonder what they'd be worth now I mean if
they actually sell
Pearl (16:17):
yeah So I was just thinking about how I've seen
some of the paintings that werestolen like in books
Aj (16:22):
Yeah I mean they're famous
Pearl (16:23):
Right Um So it blows my mind sometimes to think about
all of the you know when you'relooking a collection of famous
paintings how many of thosepaintings do we actually have in
known possession today
Aj (16:37):
Or are they fake Well an art heist and like big time
burglaries Pretty interestingbecause oftentimes they're not
like violent dark crimes whereyou're like Ooh I didn't really
want to hear about that It'sjust like these crazy capers I
don't know It makes it makes youfeel like you're reading about
real life oceans 11
Pearl (16:55):
or the pink Panther Like you expect the pink Panther to
come around the corner but umbut um but um but um um butter
Aj (17:06):
Okay Yeah That's good
Pearl (17:07):
I'm just going to jump into it really quick I'm gonna
go for it
Aj (17:11):
what you got for the pod today
Pearl (17:13):
So I have two shorter stories the first person that
I'm going to talk about today isa woman named Phyllis Latour
Doyle
Aj (17:24):
Oh oil
Pearl (17:25):
Doyle and
Aj (17:27):
it spelled
Pearl (17:27):
D O Y L E Phyllis Latour Doyle was a British secret agent
in world war two and she justturned a hundred in April of
this year
Aj (17:40):
And she's alive that Is awesome well I guess that makes
sense Yeah
Pearl (17:48):
Phyllis was born April 8th, 1921 And South Africa
Aj (17:54):
Okay So she was in her early twenties during
Pearl (17:57):
Yeah So she was born in 1921 and then she She joined the
women's auxiliary air force atthe age of 20 in 1941 but The
British special operationsexecutives tagged her early on
in her service Cause they werelike you seem like you could be
a good spy and I'm not reallysure what the criteria is but
(18:18):
she fit the criteria
Aj (18:20):
Yeah Hm I'd be curious what what it was they sign Ms Doyle
you look like a liar
Pearl (18:27):
right You seem like you'd be really good at deceiving
people Right This is going tocome out wrong But Yeah so her
her specialty was knitting and Iknow I I didn't think about how
funny that was going to be untilI said it
Aj (18:47):
captain of the knitting team is that's That's how you decide
she should be a spy Does shelike knit I
Pearl (18:58):
So one of the reasons that they were using women as
spies was just because It was alittle bit easier for them to go
under the radar and they wereless likely to get caught And
one of the things that Phylliswould do specifically she was
working in France as a spy shehad the code name Genevieve
Aj (19:21):
code name
Pearl (19:22):
yeah her most dangerous mission was in began in 1944 She
jumped out of a us air forcebomber and landed behind enemy
lines in Nazi occupied NormandyAnd she posed as a poor teenage
French girl so she basicallyjust traveled around on a
bicycle in Normandy and she wastransmitting codes back and
(19:44):
forth
Aj (19:45):
Oh man
Pearl (19:46):
And so the way that she was hiding her codes was she was
knitting it into knitting thecodes into her knitting work on
a piece of silk I guess likeknitting a little piece of silk
with the code on it Wrapping itin the yarn and like knitting it
into whatever she was making
Aj (20:03):
Okay Okay So the Nadine is coming full circle
Pearl (20:06):
Yeah so it was yeah Fully knitting and then a lot of times
she would also use it to liketie up her hair like a hair
ribbon you know So she gotstopped somewhere and searched
They couldn't find anything onher because
Aj (20:20):
a bunch of doilies
Pearl (20:22):
she just making doilies man making doilies and scarves
Making little hair ribbons soshe actually transmitted 135
secrets Messages and thosemessages were essentially
conveying super important Nazitrue positions to the allied
forces And her work was actuallyused by the allied forces to
(20:46):
prepare for the Normandylandings on D-Day So yeah she
continued to work until theFrench liberation in August of
1944 So Yeah kind of a crazystory you can find out more
about her on a mighty girl.comI'll have all the sources listed
Aj (21:06):
Yeah That that's a cool story Never heard of never heard
of a philosophical Phyllis right
Pearl (21:12):
her work was kind of largely unknown until I believe
was it was in 2014
Aj (21:20):
That's a long time
Pearl (21:21):
Yeah 2014 when she was 94 years old she was awarded
Francis highest honor which isthe Shivali of the Legion of
honor So kind of just an amazingstory about just one of the many
crazy people in world war II
Aj (21:40):
It is so crazy how it can take such a long time for
information about this kind ofstuff to be released
Pearl (21:49):
Well not just not just release but like yeah There's
just so many incredible stories
Aj (21:55):
Well I guess that's true
Pearl (21:58):
That One of the one of the funny story one of the funny
things about this story isPhyllis talks about how part of
their training They wereactually trained by a real life
cat burglar Humans not a cat thecat burglar was released from
jail to train them and dusktaught them how to do stuff You
know cat bird cat burglar stylelike shimmy down drain pipes and
(22:22):
get into windows and all sortsof crazy stuff and while she was
while she was in France sheDidn't have a place to live So a
lot of times she would stay withallied sympathizers which is
incredibly
Aj (22:37):
incredibly dangerous
Pearl (22:38):
And
Aj (22:39):
uh you uh what do you think about these Nazis
Pearl (22:42):
right And even yeah exactly And and more often than
not she would actually justsleep in the woods and forage
for food So she was basicallyjust like Homeless and
pretending to just ride aroundon her bike and sell soap I
guess you just had soap thatthey sent her with as like her
wares for And she was constantlyworking on knitting projects
Aj (23:04):
Yeah It's not like she could have like a stash of cash
because I'm sure she was stoppedand you know Searched multiple
times
Pearl (23:12):
so that is just a little blip about the life of Phyllis
Latour Doyle and yeah kind of aand she just turned a hundred So
we'll have a picture of her onInstagram and Facebook
Aj (23:27):
Oh yeah Always nice to put a face to the story What else you
got
Pearl (23:32):
Yeah So the next story I have is actually about sharks
this one heavily feature sharksThis story is about and again
we're going to a world war IIThere's just so many great
stories that came out of worldwar one and world war II And so
I feel like we've just beencovering them so much on this
podcast recently but there'sjust so many good stories you
(23:55):
know it's kind of tough tooverdo it
Aj (23:57):
There's a lot happening
Pearl (23:58):
Yeah So this story is again a short little snippet
about the life of CharlesJackson French so Charles
Jackson French was born in 1919he listed in the Navy in 1937
completed his enlistment whichif you remember he world war two
black men could only work Ican't remember what the what the
(24:21):
word is but they
Aj (24:22):
support staff
Pearl (24:23):
essentially Yeah So he was a mess man and then when he
finished completed hisenlistment and then when the
Pearl Harbor was attacked here-enlisted so he enlisted in
the U S Navy And at the time ofthis story he was on the USS
Gregory So the USS Gregory wasdestroyed in battle And He piled
(24:50):
onto a raft with 25 othersurviving semen And most of them
were seriously wounded and theyjust start floating and they
really
Aj (25:02):
that would be the worst I can't imagine being out in the
open ocean and you're watchingyour ship which has been your
home just slowly sink into theabyss Right Or whatever happened
to it smoking on fire whateverOh yeah And you're just looking
at around you and you're likewell
Pearl (25:20):
Neither of us have actually ever been out on the
open ocean in any sort ofmeasurable way You know and if
you've been on the ocean in acruise ship like you know
Aj (25:33):
well it would count it The cruise ship was sinking
Pearl (25:35):
it would count as a cruise ship a ship sinking for
sure But like the the comparisonof being out on the ocean in a
raft Compared to a cruise shipis just there's a massive
difference there And so they'recrowded onto this raft and most
of them are seriously injuredand French is the mess men And
they realize much to theirmassive dismay that they are
(25:58):
actually floating towardsJapanese occupied land And they
know that if they land thereThey're going to die of some
horrifying means or they'regoing to go to a really awful
prisoner of war camp slash bothso French volunteered to swim
(26:20):
the raft away from shore
Aj (26:22):
Just back out into the ocean
Pearl (26:24):
Back out into the ocean So I'm actually going to read
the rest read the next sectionuntil the next session of the
story through French's own words
Aj (26:33):
Okay
Pearl (26:34):
So French says when Gregory which was the ship when
Gregory was hit by them planes alot of us got off before she
sunk and many of my friends werehurt I was on a raft with some
of them and we started driftingtowards land I know that if we
got close enough them Japs wouldkill us They we had been told
would S would soon as kill a manalready wounded as anybody else
(26:57):
So I being lucky enough to notget hurt just put a line around
my middle and started paddlingaway from the beach Then I got
the hell scared out of me
Aj (27:06):
Oh man
Pearl (27:06):
I noticed they was sharks circling around the raft waiting
for the dinner
Aj (27:11):
there there are so many horrific shark stories out of
Pearl (27:14):
world war two Yeah So I thought what's worse than sharks
So them Japs at least somestretch will be quick I don't
know about them Japs They besome mean mothers So I just keep
paddling I nearly peed on myselfwhen one of them sharks touched
my feet I just froze and triedto surface and float get my feet
out of the water They was awhole lot of other folks in the
(27:35):
water Some of them hurt prettybad yeah So basically what
happened is they realized thatthey're only land in sight is
occupied by the Japanese Yeah So
Aj (27:47):
prisoner or take your chance with it
Pearl (27:49):
sharks Yeah So um French took off his clothes He tied a
rope around his waist and hejust started swimming out to sea
Aj (28:00):
towing A raft
Pearl (28:01):
towing a rafter
Aj (28:02):
20 some other guys Which doesn't sound very easy
Pearl (28:06):
Oh my goodness It sounds awful Yeah plus the sharks like
how did he not get eaten Youknow I mean you talk about you
know when you talk about likethings that trigger shark
attacks one of the main thingsis someone floating up on the
surface of the water splashingAnd that's exactly what he was
doing
Aj (28:26):
So he never got a bite or anything
Pearl (28:28):
he just swam and then eventually They were picked up
by a rescue boat
Aj (28:35):
Wow Wow That's amazing And that that is a Testament to his
bravery that he saved all those
Pearl (28:45):
beds Yeah Yeah So so get this he swam six to eight hours
straight He stayed in the waterand he just kept pulling it
because he knew that if hedidn't they were going to flow
back to the Japanese And so hejust kept swimming and hoping
that a he didn't get eaten bythe sharks and that someone
(29:06):
would eventually see them andrescue them
Aj (29:08):
Wow
Pearl (29:10):
Yeah So I mean that's an incredible story a an incredible
incredible story of a physicalfeat of swimming right
apparently he loves swimmingwhen he was a boy And so he was
already a really good swimmerand he just kind of assessed the
situation was like I have thebest chance of being able to do
this If anyone on this boatprobably the best swimmer here
And he turns out he was
Aj (29:31):
did he ever trade off with anyone
Pearl (29:33):
No he just swam for six to eight hours
Aj (29:35):
don't know I don't know I Hmm I'm not sure I could face
down that fear of sharkscircling around me and touching
me sharks are pretty terrifyingcreatures Amazing beautiful
creatures but terrifying
Pearl (29:49):
Yeah So because he was quote just a mess man Hit the
story was just kind of largelyunknown And I think a lot of the
men the on the boat thatreported this story either died
of their injuries or
Aj (30:06):
was wondering
Pearl (30:07):
just didn't have his name in order to do that You know it
was like well this guy did thisbut I don't remember what his
name was
Aj (30:15):
and then if it was some of his friends on the boat they
were also Black men and justmess men you know their
testimony probably wouldn't havecarried much weight anyway
that's too bad
Pearl (30:28):
Yeah um
Aj (30:29):
someone deserving of a metal some kind
Pearl (30:31):
right right Absolutely So then after they're picked up by
this boat they've all beenrescued then apparently the hurt
men were taken to the hospitaland he was taken to the rest
camp with the others And a lotof the soldiers our sailors came
up and they were just kind ofharassing him Like you have to
(30:53):
go over with the colored coloredboys You can't stay here And
yeah they said they said to himYou a colored boy and you can go
over where the colored boys stayAnd then the men that were on
the raft with him said he isn'tgoing anywhere he saved our
lives and anywhere we go is he'sgoing to go with us And anyone
(31:18):
who tries to take him anywherehad better be ready to go into
General's quarters ready tofight with all of us
Aj (31:24):
Yeah I mean man talk about talk about just saving people's
lives Gosh
Pearl (31:32):
He received a commendation
Aj (31:35):
Oh Oh Hey buddy Good job received
Pearl (31:39):
all he received from this was a letter of commendation And
then he was also memorialized onsome war gum trading cards which
were I mean trading cards were athing
Aj (31:51):
probably fairly big thing there
Pearl (31:53):
Yeah and in a comic strip which I found the comic strip So
we're going to try and put thatin Instagram yeah It's just like
you know like a four or fiveimage Yeah So I guess the
tragedy of this story is thelack of recognition that French
received for his courage andbravery especially when you
(32:14):
compare that to Otherrecognitions that have been
given for courage and bravery inworld war II And you think about
how he saved the lives ofeveryone on that boat
Aj (32:25):
Yeah
Pearl (32:26):
at great personal peril and terror I mean can you
imagine swimming with sharksliterally brushed It's not like
we know there are sharks in thiswater and that's scary
Aj (32:38):
That's
Pearl (32:39):
It's like that's a shark and it just touched me and it's
swimming past me to circle again
Aj (32:45):
Yeah I don't know I'm not sure I'd get out of the boat I'd
be like guys can we all justlike stick our hands in and row
Like everybody together let'sfigure something out
Pearl (32:55):
Yeah I don't know I think I think everyone was really
badly wounded and he just He didwhat needed to be done So that's
an incredible story He's anincredible hero He's an American
hero And I just wanted to bringup his name on this podcast Just
kind of uh give people anotherinteresting person history to
(33:16):
look up you know let your kidsTell your kids to study it I
think there's a book that's beenwritten about him I don't know
if I don't know if it's like afull length book or anything but
yeah So that's that's all I havetoday
Aj (33:30):
those are great stories you Awesome stories never heard of
those people And they didamazing
Pearl (33:35):
right Right Phyllis Latour Doyle provided
intelligence that led to D-Dayand
Aj (33:45):
Charles Jackson French
Pearl (33:46):
Charles Jackson French saved the lives of 22 to 24
people on a boat after his shipwas destroyed
Aj (33:57):
through shark
Pearl (33:57):
swimming through literal shark infested waters
Aj (34:01):
Okay Well thank you for that I hope you enjoy the pod I hope
maybe you gain a little bit ofinsight into stories and history
that have been forgotten and wecan remember them and learn from
them
Pearl (34:15):
Thank you for listening
Aj (34:17):
you can go to the stories We forgot.com You can also I dunno
whatever you do with podcastssubscribe like download leave a
review
Pearl (34:26):
and share it with your mom bye.
Oh right here then
Pearl (00:02):
Hello Hello Hello
Aj (00:05):
and
Pearl (00:06):
Welcome to the stories we forgot
Aj (00:09):
That's my beautiful beautiful beautiful wife Pearl
Pearl (00:12):
And that's my amazing husband AIG Hearst You've come
to the history podcast by nonhistorians for non historians
That's you were good at Googlingyour good at listening It's your
favorite podcast
Aj (00:25):
At least we hope that's you We hope that you're not a
historian
Pearl (00:29):
Gosh if you're a historian much apologies many
apologies I
Aj (00:35):
in advance for what you're about to hear
Pearl (00:37):
Also I think it would be really funny to have a historian
listen to our podcast and thenrecord their you know like a
reaction video where they'relike responding to it in real
time No 1937 37 Oh These peopleare messing it up streaming
crazy
Aj (00:52):
Oh that would be That would be so bad
Pearl (00:56):
bad for us But funny entertaining how are you guys
doing it's may it's the middleof may almost It is beautiful
outside It's almost the middleof may
Aj (01:13):
What is
Pearl (01:14):
It's like the eighth or
Aj (01:16):
It is it's the eighth
Pearl (01:19):
Exactly It's beautiful outside
Aj (01:21):
say that's in the middle of may though
Pearl (01:22):
it's close to the middle of
Aj (01:24):
It is beautiful Outside
Pearl (01:26):
Yeah we're just
Aj (01:27):
Trees are blooming
Pearl (01:28):
second pandemic summer So just kinda I'm wondering how our
second pandemic summer is goingto fare for most people I know a
lot of people are gettingvaccinated but coronavirus has
not gone away So what does thatlook like I mean last summer a
lot of people started gardens Ithink a lot of gardens didn't
(01:50):
get finished
Aj (01:52):
I think a lot of gardens probably died
Pearl (01:54):
died Yeah
Aj (01:55):
of like ours so far this year
Pearl (01:58):
I just yeah I need to go out and I need to water it more
Aj (02:01):
Oh watering
Pearl (02:03):
That's what we're missing need water
Aj (02:07):
knew there was something we were missing Well we also have a
new dog and he likes to jump inthe garden beds
Pearl (02:13):
he's terrible
Aj (02:14):
probably destroyed most of what starts to come up
Pearl (02:17):
Yeah Unfortunately I just need to I'm waiting to
transplant as late as I can Sothe plants can be a little more
established so that when youwhen he steps on them they're
not immediately crushed with thefirst step but Yeah
Aj (02:30):
Well the training we can work on him now We got a little
shock collar thing too Don'tjudge us
Pearl (02:36):
mostly a buzz collar but also he's I mean he's just kind
of he's a goober and he listenswhen he wants to And the
neighbors have we were our yardis up against a cow pasture and
there's a bunch of a bunch ofcows in there with calves and he
just likes to go in there andbark at them And he's a massive
(02:58):
pest
Aj (02:59):
I mean he's technically a hurting
Pearl (03:01):
He is technically hurting dog and he weighs all of like 19
pounds but he's very annoying tothe cows And so we're trying to
train him not to go in there butman if he gets super engaged in
a stare down with you know Idon't know a thousand pound cow
Aj (03:18):
Or if you really wants to eat cow poop
Pearl (03:20):
or if he really I mean the cow poop is like That is so
fascinated Both of the dogs justlove it They they find a cow
Patty and they're just out therefor you Can't call them back
Aj (03:29):
So to all you people who allow dogs to lick your face
Pearl (03:32):
don't do it No one should ever let a dog lick their face
Even if your dog is an indooronly dog I just don't even know
Yeah
Aj (03:42):
Dogs No no bounds
Pearl (03:44):
They just they have no boundaries Yeah see
Aj (03:46):
interesting things happen this week
Pearl (03:48):
Well
Aj (03:49):
a birthday
Pearl (03:50):
had a birthday We had a birthday week
Aj (03:52):
We try to do birthday
Pearl (03:54):
of our kids turned 11
Aj (03:56):
Yeah So we spread it out a little bit And what on Monday we
had ice cream for lunch whichwas a big
Pearl (04:03):
well and I wasn't actually planning on skipping
lunch And having ice creaminstead But we were going to run
errands And so we swung bythere's this ice cream place
that we like to take the kids toIt's called Grammy's ice cream
Aj (04:15):
Grammy's ice
Pearl (04:16):
And I don't know what kind of ice cream they serve but
there's like 40 flavors orsomething So it's you know
Aj (04:21):
it's good
Pearl (04:22):
the the sheer number of flavors is what gets the kids
because they just feel like theyhave so many options You go look
at a wall of 40 flavors and it'slike the world is
Aj (04:31):
The nice thing is at least the two oldest can read their
own lists off the two youngestWe still have to read it through
but they're actually fairlydecisive because one of them
decides and than the other onewants exactly what the other one
Pearl (04:43):
right Yeah It's it's our it's our first born That is not
decisive Yes That would beviolent She just she's got major
FOMO when it comes to ice creamflavors major fear of missing
out So uh yeah we had ice creamfor lunch because then we went
and ran errands and all of asudden it was like four o'clock
and no one had had any lunchexcept for ice cream
Aj (05:03):
who wants to dinner
Pearl (05:05):
Yeah Oh the kids and I did some science experiments
with Mentos and
Aj (05:10):
wasn't science
Pearl (05:11):
it was definitely science We even tried out different
types of Coke We did like thestore brand whatever the store
ran was we did diet sugar We didfour total I remember what all
the different
Aj (05:25):
why don't you tell them what you were doing
Pearl (05:27):
What do you mean We're trying to make them explode
Aj (05:30):
Yeah You haven't said anything about that
Pearl (05:33):
I I said Coke Experiments
Aj (05:36):
You said science
Pearl (05:37):
Oh science experiments Oh yeah So we were doing you know
the Mentos and the Coke bottlesAnd instead of doing the geysers
cause honestly the geysersaren't super impressive but we
saw
Aj (05:48):
need to figure out how to do it better
Pearl (05:49):
Yeah we saw some we were watching I was watching our
favorite one of our favoriteYouTube channels with the kids
and this YouTube channel iscalled crazy Russian hacker I
wholeheartedly recommend it Ican't remember if it's a hundred
percent kid safe I'm pretty sureit is I think I think the only
reason I would say not to watchit with your kids is because Of
the ideas that they're going toget Right Um yeah it's hilarious
(06:13):
This guy's a really strongRussian accent and he's just
like walking you through He'scrazy
Aj (06:19):
I mean he does emphasize safety every
Pearl (06:21):
Yeah
Aj (06:22):
The number one
Pearl (06:23):
That's yeah but we were watching him do these mento Coke
bombs where basically you haveto let the coax that out in the
sun until it re tilts warm Youget a better reaction with warm
Coke and then you screw up thelid you dump all the Mentos in
or no Yeah I can't refusedumping I think he was taping
them to the inside lip So theyweren't dropping in like making
(06:47):
a little tape rope of Mentos andjust like lowering it in and
then squeezing the lid shakingit up her tiny lid shaking it up
really really hard and thenthrowing it up in the air and
then it hits the pavement andjust like Goes off like a bomb
It was amazing So we only got itto actually explode one time out
of the four
Aj (07:05):
think we need to do
Pearl (07:06):
where yeah So it exploded out the back and just like shot
down the driveway like a
Aj (07:11):
Yeah But then the dogs were trying to eat
Pearl (07:13):
yeah So then yeah we did not calculate we didn't count on
the dogs loving the Mentos andpeppermint flavored stuff makes
animals puke like crazy
Aj (07:22):
Oh that's
Pearl (07:23):
figured that out We figured that out Christmas
before last we had a massivegingerbread house We can
competition at our house andthere was just peppermint crank
candy cane stuff everywhere Andthe cat of course was you know
eating getting into everythingAnd then all of a sudden he just
started puking all over thehouse And I was like what is
(07:44):
wrong with this cat And then Ilooked it up and of course
peppermint makes cats puke Soyeah so we were just there was
just a mad scramble to find allthe Mentos and prime out of
dog's mouths and stuff
Aj (07:57):
cause no one wants dogs to Cause then they eat
Pearl (08:00):
because if they puke they're going to puke up Cal
poop in your house
Aj (08:04):
Okay Moving along
Pearl (08:06):
Right I'm just keeping it real This is just normal Okay
let's see Oh the other thingthat I wanted to talk about and
I'm telling you but I also liketo hear some feedback listeners
so polar bears have been or noI'm yeah I'm not sure if it's
polar bears changing theirhabitat or grizzly bears
(08:26):
changing their habitat buteither way the habitats of polar
bears and grizzly bears havebeen overlapping so uh due to
you know global
Aj (08:37):
climate change
Pearl (08:38):
climate change and when they're overlapping they're
crossbreeding which I didn'tknew we don't try to know that
Grizzlies and polar bears wouldcross-breed but yeah So the
official name
Aj (08:49):
strange that they would that they would naturally Crossbreed
Pearl (08:53):
Yeah I'm not sure how I'm not sure What
Aj (08:56):
where did you get this news source from was say called the
national Inquirer
Pearl (09:01):
Nice try No it was the internet Come on I can't
remember but
Aj (09:05):
Oh the internet is much more legit than the national inquire
Pearl (09:10):
Oh yeah I'm pretty sure I read it on Reddit no I'm
Aj (09:12):
cool Cool cool cool cool
Pearl (09:13):
The name That has been given to these crossbreeds is
piss Liebherr
Aj (09:19):
That is such a terrible name
Pearl (09:21):
I just feel like we owe it to Piz Liebherr's to give
them a better name we're talkingabout
Aj (09:28):
cozy bears
Pearl (09:30):
That's also bad
Aj (09:31):
I feel like it's even better than
Pearl (09:32):
Oh it's
Aj (09:32):
His Lee is
Pearl (09:33):
Bears is so bad We're talking about the ferocity of a
grizzly bear and the size of apolar bear This is like a liger
Aj (09:45):
A mythical creature with magical
Pearl (09:47):
likers her real
Aj (09:49):
I wish I could remember the line
Pearl (09:50):
I know
Aj (09:50):
Napoleon
Pearl (09:51):
I know I feel like our kids are old enough that we
could watch Napoleon dynamitewith them but
Aj (09:56):
would they enjoy it as much as
Pearl (09:58):
I just feel like there's so many there's so many weird
jokes in that movie They justwould not get like
Aj (10:07):
might be surprised
Pearl (10:09):
Well like the part where she comes up I can't remember
remember any names part whereshe comes up to the door with
her her Kaboodle and she's likeselling stuff And she's got her
hair in the side ponytail like Ithink I think my kids I just I
don't know I don't I don't knowwhat they would think they would
have no
Aj (10:25):
The whole scene is hilarious to us
Pearl (10:29):
because you have some reference like yeah Caboodles
were really hot And so we'reside ponytails I I had dreams of
having side ponytails or likewhat happened yesterday was
talking to Henry about Telephoneor no we were talking about
talking about the differencebetween digital cameras and film
(10:49):
cameras and I was driving So Iwas having a tough time like
explaining it very well Plusit's I mean I don't really
understand how to explain itvery well and I it kind of
trailed off and ended it withand that's how pictures were
taken in the olden days I didn'treally know how to finish that
sentence You know back in theolden days I mean we saw we're
(11:12):
at this old thrift store with abunch of weird stuff The other
day I took the kids to it and wesaw this like wall phone from
the nineties Like I'm talkinglike you know it hooks on the
screw that you screw on the walland it's not cordless And the
kids were just like They thoughtit was so cool
Aj (11:31):
was it a corded phone or a cordless Okay
Pearl (11:34):
Just like basic model plastic not cool
Aj (11:39):
We should see if we can find like an old tape player in a
couple of
Pearl (11:42):
Oh my gosh It would blow their minds and then show them a
pencil and be like can you guesswhat this is used for You will
in about two hours when thiswhole thing falls apart
Aj (11:52):
when it eats your tape and you're trying to rewind the
stupid thing
Pearl (11:55):
Oh man But yeah it was just hilarious because they're
just like Whoa sick phone dudeThat's so cool
Aj (12:04):
Yes We were just watching a new show on Netflix
Pearl (12:09):
you and me What was it
Aj (12:10):
yeah Yeah The art robbery
Pearl (12:11):
Oh yeah the our heist
Aj (12:13):
it called The greatest art robbery
Pearl (12:15):
I mean that's the description I don't remember I
don't remember what it's called
Aj (12:18):
I think that might be what it's called Yeah I don't know
Pearl (12:21):
It's about some art thieves breaking into a museum
of Boston And basically this islike a 91
Aj (12:27):
94 I think
Pearl (12:29):
No I think it's 91
Aj (12:30):
Oh yeah I think you're right
Pearl (12:31):
I think it's 91 I don't know Anyways
Aj (12:35):
uh at one point at one point it cracked me up because they
said that there were securitycameras in the museum but the
thieves knew where the VHS tapewas So they took the
Pearl (12:48):
VHS tape
Aj (12:50):
And that's mind boggling today because a a it would be on
a hard drive or something or itwould probably just go to the
cloud it just yeah
Pearl (12:59):
we were
Aj (12:59):
brought back so many memories
Pearl (13:00):
Oh what was that Mark Walberg movie where it's with
Mark Walberg analyze a slushy
Aj (13:08):
Oh Spencer confidential
Pearl (13:10):
confidential and he has to get the tapes The security
tapes and he's like where's thetapes and the kid behind the
counter is like I dunno they'rein the cloud And he's like
where's the cloud dude You'retoo old for this joke Nevermind
Aj (13:24):
That was kind of funny
Pearl (13:25):
Yeah yeah So let's see
Aj (13:29):
well rolling right into that Can I do
Pearl (13:32):
do it Yeah Go for it What are we
Aj (13:33):
time for this day in history history history history history
That was
Pearl (13:40):
He does He only does this for you
Aj (13:41):
that was a full five echoes just for Alex Doyle
Pearl (13:44):
five echos
Aj (13:45):
This is just quick in Oh May 7th, 1994 So not too long after
that art robbery that we werereading about Edward munches the
scream Recovered after theft Isthat how you say his name It's
not like monk is it or
Pearl (14:03):
I don't know I'd have to Google it And then you know I
just
Aj (14:07):
Seventh 1994 the North Norway's most famous painting
The scream is recovered almostthree months after it was stolen
from a museum in Oslo it wasfound undamaged at a hotel The
painting was stolen Hang on thisI just thought this was funny
after watching that art robberyIt was stolen in 50 seconds So
(14:29):
under a minute during a break induring the opening day of the
winter Olympics two thievesbroke through a window cut a
wire holding the painting to thewall and left a note reading
thousand Thanks for the badsecurity yeah And just so then
the thieves were found it waslike These people who had stolen
other stuff before And that wasthe interesting thing in this
(14:51):
documentary is they're like mainsuspect is a guy who's they're
like Oh yeah he stoled thismillion dollars worth of
paintings And then thesepaintings and then he fled and
all these
Pearl (15:02):
and they said how many how many times have you stolen
art And he said over 30 timesHow how many times are the
police aware of it And he saidOnly a few sometimes something
like that where it's like whyisn't he in prison he's he's
admitting to multiple
Aj (15:18):
These guys just keep getting out and stealing more stuff I
mean I guess maybe you knowmaybe it's not a violent crime
and it's not punished veryheavily Or maybe if the
paintings are recovered I don'tknow But it just seemed kind of
silly that these guys just keepgetting out well And even the
The guy who stole the scream heescaped while they were on a
(15:40):
field trip or something And thenthey found him like 10 days
later wearing dark glasses and ablonde wig trying to get on a
train but
Pearl (15:48):
Subtle very subtle
Aj (15:49):
art heists It's a real thing
Pearl (15:52):
Yeah Apparently you can make a real living doing this
Aj (15:54):
well cause in that Netflix
Pearl (15:55):
and then you get get out and you've got all your money
still
Aj (15:57):
Yeah You just go find where you stash the painting I guess
And uh you know bada Bing badaboom We've got it all figured
out Well those ones in thatNetflix documentary they've
still never been recovered andit's like$200 million worth of
paintings
Pearl (16:12):
paintings
Aj (16:13):
Although I wonder what they'd be worth now I mean if
they actually sell
Pearl (16:17):
yeah So I was just thinking about how I've seen
some of the paintings that werestolen like in books
Aj (16:22):
Yeah I mean they're famous
Pearl (16:23):
Right Um So it blows my mind sometimes to think about
all of the you know when you'relooking a collection of famous
paintings how many of thosepaintings do we actually have in
known possession today
Aj (16:37):
Or are they fake Well an art heist and like big time
burglaries Pretty interestingbecause oftentimes they're not
like violent dark crimes whereyou're like Ooh I didn't really
want to hear about that It'sjust like these crazy capers I
don't know It makes it makes youfeel like you're reading about
real life oceans 11
Pearl (16:55):
or the pink Panther Like you expect the pink Panther to
come around the corner but umbut um but um but um um butter
Aj (17:06):
Okay Yeah That's good
Pearl (17:07):
I'm just going to jump into it really quick I'm gonna
go for it
Aj (17:11):
what you got for the pod today
Pearl (17:13):
So I have two shorter stories the first person that
I'm going to talk about today isa woman named Phyllis Latour
Doyle
Aj (17:24):
Oh oil
Pearl (17:25):
Doyle and
Aj (17:27):
it spelled
Pearl (17:27):
D O Y L E Phyllis Latour Doyle was a British secret agent
in world war two and she justturned a hundred in April of
this year
Aj (17:40):
And she's alive that Is awesome well I guess that makes
sense Yeah
Pearl (17:48):
Phyllis was born April 8th, 1921 And South Africa
Aj (17:54):
Okay So she was in her early twenties during
Pearl (17:57):
Yeah So she was born in 1921 and then she She joined the
women's auxiliary air force atthe age of 20 in 1941 but The
British special operationsexecutives tagged her early on
in her service Cause they werelike you seem like you could be
a good spy and I'm not reallysure what the criteria is but
(18:18):
she fit the criteria
Aj (18:20):
Yeah Hm I'd be curious what what it was they sign Ms Doyle
you look like a liar
Pearl (18:27):
right You seem like you'd be really good at deceiving
people Right This is going tocome out wrong But Yeah so her
her specialty was knitting and Iknow I I didn't think about how
funny that was going to be untilI said it
Aj (18:47):
captain of the knitting team is that's That's how you decide
she should be a spy Does shelike knit I
Pearl (18:58):
So one of the reasons that they were using women as
spies was just because It was alittle bit easier for them to go
under the radar and they wereless likely to get caught And
one of the things that Phylliswould do specifically she was
working in France as a spy shehad the code name Genevieve
Aj (19:21):
code name
Pearl (19:22):
yeah her most dangerous mission was in began in 1944 She
jumped out of a us air forcebomber and landed behind enemy
lines in Nazi occupied NormandyAnd she posed as a poor teenage
French girl so she basicallyjust traveled around on a
bicycle in Normandy and she wastransmitting codes back and
(19:44):
forth
Aj (19:45):
Oh man
Pearl (19:46):
And so the way that she was hiding her codes was she was
knitting it into knitting thecodes into her knitting work on
a piece of silk I guess likeknitting a little piece of silk
with the code on it Wrapping itin the yarn and like knitting it
into whatever she was making
Aj (20:03):
Okay Okay So the Nadine is coming full circle
Pearl (20:06):
Yeah so it was yeah Fully knitting and then a lot of times
she would also use it to liketie up her hair like a hair
ribbon you know So she gotstopped somewhere and searched
They couldn't find anything onher because
Aj (20:20):
a bunch of doilies
Pearl (20:22):
she just making doilies man making doilies and scarves
Making little hair ribbons soshe actually transmitted 135
secrets Messages and thosemessages were essentially
conveying super important Nazitrue positions to the allied
forces And her work was actuallyused by the allied forces to
(20:46):
prepare for the Normandylandings on D-Day So yeah she
continued to work until theFrench liberation in August of
1944 So Yeah kind of a crazystory you can find out more
about her on a mighty girl.comI'll have all the sources listed
Aj (21:06):
Yeah That that's a cool story Never heard of never heard
of a philosophical Phyllis right
Pearl (21:12):
her work was kind of largely unknown until I believe
was it was in 2014
Aj (21:20):
That's a long time
Pearl (21:21):
Yeah 2014 when she was 94 years old she was awarded
Francis highest honor which isthe Shivali of the Legion of
honor So kind of just an amazingstory about just one of the many
crazy people in world war II
Aj (21:40):
It is so crazy how it can take such a long time for
information about this kind ofstuff to be released
Pearl (21:49):
Well not just not just release but like yeah There's
just so many incredible stories
Aj (21:55):
Well I guess that's true
Pearl (21:58):
That One of the one of the funny story one of the funny
things about this story isPhyllis talks about how part of
their training They wereactually trained by a real life
cat burglar Humans not a cat thecat burglar was released from
jail to train them and dusktaught them how to do stuff You
know cat bird cat burglar stylelike shimmy down drain pipes and
(22:22):
get into windows and all sortsof crazy stuff and while she was
while she was in France sheDidn't have a place to live So a
lot of times she would stay withallied sympathizers which is
incredibly
Aj (22:37):
incredibly dangerous
Pearl (22:38):
And
Aj (22:39):
uh you uh what do you think about these Nazis
Pearl (22:42):
right And even yeah exactly And and more often than
not she would actually justsleep in the woods and forage
for food So she was basicallyjust like Homeless and
pretending to just ride aroundon her bike and sell soap I
guess you just had soap thatthey sent her with as like her
wares for And she was constantlyworking on knitting projects
Aj (23:04):
Yeah It's not like she could have like a stash of cash
because I'm sure she was stoppedand you know Searched multiple
times
Pearl (23:12):
so that is just a little blip about the life of Phyllis
Latour Doyle and yeah kind of aand she just turned a hundred So
we'll have a picture of her onInstagram and Facebook
Aj (23:27):
Oh yeah Always nice to put a face to the story What else you
got
Pearl (23:32):
Yeah So the next story I have is actually about sharks
this one heavily feature sharksThis story is about and again
we're going to a world war IIThere's just so many great
stories that came out of worldwar one and world war II And so
I feel like we've just beencovering them so much on this
podcast recently but there'sjust so many good stories you
(23:55):
know it's kind of tough tooverdo it
Aj (23:57):
There's a lot happening
Pearl (23:58):
Yeah So this story is again a short little snippet
about the life of CharlesJackson French so Charles
Jackson French was born in 1919he listed in the Navy in 1937
completed his enlistment whichif you remember he world war two
black men could only work Ican't remember what the what the
(24:21):
word is but they
Aj (24:22):
support staff
Pearl (24:23):
essentially Yeah So he was a mess man and then when he
finished completed hisenlistment and then when the
Pearl Harbor was attacked here-enlisted so he enlisted in
the U S Navy And at the time ofthis story he was on the USS
Gregory So the USS Gregory wasdestroyed in battle And He piled
(24:50):
onto a raft with 25 othersurviving semen And most of them
were seriously wounded and theyjust start floating and they
really
Aj (25:02):
that would be the worst I can't imagine being out in the
open ocean and you're watchingyour ship which has been your
home just slowly sink into theabyss Right Or whatever happened
to it smoking on fire whateverOh yeah And you're just looking
at around you and you're likewell
Pearl (25:20):
Neither of us have actually ever been out on the
open ocean in any sort ofmeasurable way You know and if
you've been on the ocean in acruise ship like you know
Aj (25:33):
well it would count it The cruise ship was sinking
Pearl (25:35):
it would count as a cruise ship a ship sinking for
sure But like the the comparisonof being out on the ocean in a
raft Compared to a cruise shipis just there's a massive
difference there And so they'recrowded onto this raft and most
of them are seriously injuredand French is the mess men And
they realize much to theirmassive dismay that they are
(25:58):
actually floating towardsJapanese occupied land And they
know that if they land thereThey're going to die of some
horrifying means or they'regoing to go to a really awful
prisoner of war camp slash bothso French volunteered to swim
(26:20):
the raft away from shore
Aj (26:22):
Just back out into the ocean
Pearl (26:24):
Back out into the ocean So I'm actually going to read
the rest read the next sectionuntil the next session of the
story through French's own words
Aj (26:33):
Okay
Pearl (26:34):
So French says when Gregory which was the ship when
Gregory was hit by them planes alot of us got off before she
sunk and many of my friends werehurt I was on a raft with some
of them and we started driftingtowards land I know that if we
got close enough them Japs wouldkill us They we had been told
would S would soon as kill a manalready wounded as anybody else
(26:57):
So I being lucky enough to notget hurt just put a line around
my middle and started paddlingaway from the beach Then I got
the hell scared out of me
Aj (27:06):
Oh man
Pearl (27:06):
I noticed they was sharks circling around the raft waiting
for the dinner
Aj (27:11):
there there are so many horrific shark stories out of
Pearl (27:14):
world war two Yeah So I thought what's worse than sharks
So them Japs at least somestretch will be quick I don't
know about them Japs They besome mean mothers So I just keep
paddling I nearly peed on myselfwhen one of them sharks touched
my feet I just froze and triedto surface and float get my feet
out of the water They was awhole lot of other folks in the
(27:35):
water Some of them hurt prettybad yeah So basically what
happened is they realized thatthey're only land in sight is
occupied by the Japanese Yeah So
Aj (27:47):
prisoner or take your chance with it
Pearl (27:49):
sharks Yeah So um French took off his clothes He tied a
rope around his waist and hejust started swimming out to sea
Aj (28:00):
towing A raft
Pearl (28:01):
towing a rafter
Aj (28:02):
20 some other guys Which doesn't sound very easy
Pearl (28:06):
Oh my goodness It sounds awful Yeah plus the sharks like
how did he not get eaten Youknow I mean you talk about you
know when you talk about likethings that trigger shark
attacks one of the main thingsis someone floating up on the
surface of the water splashingAnd that's exactly what he was
doing
Aj (28:26):
So he never got a bite or anything
Pearl (28:28):
he just swam and then eventually They were picked up
by a rescue boat
Aj (28:35):
Wow Wow That's amazing And that that is a Testament to his
bravery that he saved all those
Pearl (28:45):
beds Yeah Yeah So so get this he swam six to eight hours
straight He stayed in the waterand he just kept pulling it
because he knew that if hedidn't they were going to flow
back to the Japanese And so hejust kept swimming and hoping
that a he didn't get eaten bythe sharks and that someone
(29:06):
would eventually see them andrescue them
Aj (29:08):
Wow
Pearl (29:10):
Yeah So I mean that's an incredible story a an incredible
incredible story of a physicalfeat of swimming right
apparently he loves swimmingwhen he was a boy And so he was
already a really good swimmerand he just kind of assessed the
situation was like I have thebest chance of being able to do
this If anyone on this boatprobably the best swimmer here
And he turns out he was
Aj (29:31):
did he ever trade off with anyone
Pearl (29:33):
No he just swam for six to eight hours
Aj (29:35):
don't know I don't know I Hmm I'm not sure I could face
down that fear of sharkscircling around me and touching
me sharks are pretty terrifyingcreatures Amazing beautiful
creatures but terrifying
Pearl (29:49):
Yeah So because he was quote just a mess man Hit the
story was just kind of largelyunknown And I think a lot of the
men the on the boat thatreported this story either died
of their injuries or
Aj (30:06):
was wondering
Pearl (30:07):
just didn't have his name in order to do that You know it
was like well this guy did thisbut I don't remember what his
name was
Aj (30:15):
and then if it was some of his friends on the boat they
were also Black men and justmess men you know their
testimony probably wouldn't havecarried much weight anyway
that's too bad
Pearl (30:28):
Yeah um
Aj (30:29):
someone deserving of a metal some kind
Pearl (30:31):
right right Absolutely So then after they're picked up by
this boat they've all beenrescued then apparently the hurt
men were taken to the hospitaland he was taken to the rest
camp with the others And a lotof the soldiers our sailors came
up and they were just kind ofharassing him Like you have to
(30:53):
go over with the colored coloredboys You can't stay here And
yeah they said they said to himYou a colored boy and you can go
over where the colored boys stayAnd then the men that were on
the raft with him said he isn'tgoing anywhere he saved our
lives and anywhere we go is he'sgoing to go with us And anyone
(31:18):
who tries to take him anywherehad better be ready to go into
General's quarters ready tofight with all of us
Aj (31:24):
Yeah I mean man talk about talk about just saving people's
lives Gosh
Pearl (31:32):
He received a commendation
Aj (31:35):
Oh Oh Hey buddy Good job received
Pearl (31:39):
all he received from this was a letter of commendation And
then he was also memorialized onsome war gum trading cards which
were I mean trading cards were athing
Aj (31:51):
probably fairly big thing there
Pearl (31:53):
Yeah and in a comic strip which I found the comic strip So
we're going to try and put thatin Instagram yeah It's just like
you know like a four or fiveimage Yeah So I guess the
tragedy of this story is thelack of recognition that French
received for his courage andbravery especially when you
(32:14):
compare that to Otherrecognitions that have been
given for courage and bravery inworld war II And you think about
how he saved the lives ofeveryone on that boat
Aj (32:25):
Yeah
Pearl (32:26):
at great personal peril and terror I mean can you
imagine swimming with sharksliterally brushed It's not like
we know there are sharks in thiswater and that's scary
Aj (32:38):
That's
Pearl (32:39):
It's like that's a shark and it just touched me and it's
swimming past me to circle again
Aj (32:45):
Yeah I don't know I'm not sure I'd get out of the boat I'd
be like guys can we all justlike stick our hands in and row
Like everybody together let'sfigure something out
Pearl (32:55):
Yeah I don't know I think I think everyone was really
badly wounded and he just He didwhat needed to be done So that's
an incredible story He's anincredible hero He's an American
hero And I just wanted to bringup his name on this podcast Just
kind of uh give people anotherinteresting person history to
(33:16):
look up you know let your kidsTell your kids to study it I
think there's a book that's beenwritten about him I don't know
if I don't know if it's like afull length book or anything but
yeah So that's that's all I havetoday
Aj (33:30):
those are great stories you Awesome stories never heard of
those people And they didamazing
Pearl (33:35):
right Right Phyllis Latour Doyle provided
intelligence that led to D-Dayand
Aj (33:45):
Charles Jackson French
Pearl (33:46):
Charles Jackson French saved the lives of 22 to 24
people on a boat after his shipwas destroyed
Aj (33:57):
through shark
Pearl (33:57):
swimming through literal shark infested waters
Aj (34:01):
Okay Well thank you for that I hope you enjoy the pod I hope
maybe you gain a little bit ofinsight into stories and history
that have been forgotten and wecan remember them and learn from
them
Pearl (34:15):
Thank you for listening
Aj (34:17):
you can go to the stories We forgot.com You can also I dunno
whatever you do with podcastssubscribe like download leave a
review
Pearl (34:26):
and share it with your mom bye.
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