December 11, 2025 • 46 mins
A thousand-pound therapist can teach you more about trust than a bookshelf of parenting guides. Shane Jacob—life coach, professional horseman, and former heavy drinker—opens up about a two-decade cycle of numbing, the wreckage it caused, and the unlikely path to healing through faith and horses. We unpack how an animal’s sensitivity turns into a powerful mirror, reflecting the energy we bring into every interaction and revealing why congruence, not perfection, builds connection.
We dive into the myth that life should feel good all the time and how that belief fuels escape behaviors for teens and adults alike. Shane explains the “speed of trust” with horses: when cues become fair and clear, they update quickly and stop keeping score. That lesson translates at home—separate behavior from worth, hold boundaries, repair fast, and then truly let it go. We explore communication breakdowns, why over-explaining escalates confusion, and how a few simple, shared cues can calm power struggles. Creating repeated correlations to parenting we recognize that sensitive kids read body language, tone, and pacing more than words; showing up aligned matters more than saying the perfect thing.
The heart of the conversation centers on self-compassion. Parents often weaponize their inner voice, then hope kids will somehow learn a kinder one. We offer practical, mindful tools—like the thought river shorthand and loving-kindness—to refill your cup and model emotional regulation. If you’ve ever wondered how to rebuild after mistakes, create unity between caregivers, or help a teen move from shame to resilience, these horse-powered insights will give you grounded, usable steps.
If this conversation helped, follow and share it with a friend who needs a dose of calm and hope. Subscribe for more mindful parenting tools, leave a quick review to help others find the show, and tell us: what cue will you try at home this week?
Lindsay Miller is a distinguished kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks and playful laugh. When she's not cheering on her daughter or rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications, Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression wherever she goes.
To sign up for Lindsay's "Calm & Collected" Newsletter click here.
To review the podcast click here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Welcome to the Stress Nanny, the podcast where
we take the overwhelm out ofparenting and help kids and
parents build calm, confidence,and connection.
I'm your host, Lindsay Miller,kids' mindfulness coach and
cheerleader for busy familieseverywhere.
Each week we'll explore simpletools, uplifting stories, and
practical strategies to helpyour child learn emotional
(00:42):
regulation, resilience, andself-confidence, while giving
you a little more peace of mind,too.
I'm so glad you're here.
My guest today is Shane Jacob.
Shane is a certified life coach,professional horseman, and
entrepreneur.
His feelings of inadequacy as ayoung adult led to drinking
alcohol to excess on a regularbasis.
(01:03):
His excessive drinking led to atragic DUI accident, which led
to incarceration.
The cycle continued.
He failed in business, failed inmarriage, destroyed
relationships, was overweight byover 40 pounds, and was so
disgusted and ashamed ofhimself.
He lied and tried to hide itfrom everyone for years.
With the help of horses andGod's hand, he finally broke
(01:23):
free.
Shane took the process andprinciples he used to turn his
life around, combined them withwhat he learned from his career,
working with horses, to createstable living coaching, where he
helps parents and teens with thechallenges they face in today's
world.
Shane, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I am looking forward to ourconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Thanks so much for having me.
Appreciate the opportunity,Rende.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit moreabout how you got to where you
are now.
What led you into this part ofyour life and how you ended up
doing the work that you'redoing?
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
Sure.
Appreciate that.
So, you know, turns out when Iwas a young man, a teenager, and
even into my 20s, I seemed likeI just had this constant noise
in my head saying, you know, youjust don't quite measure up or,
you know, you're not quite goodenough.
I just felt like it was lackingin the fishing.
I had a super hard time beingaround other kids.
(02:20):
And I really tried to fit in thegroups, and I did pretty good in
sports, and I did actually be inacademics as long as I wanted
to, and then I didn't, but itdidn't feel good, you know, and
I didn't really know what to dowith it.
I didn't know anything about itother than it didn't feel good.
I knew that.
These noises, right?
This chatter in my head.
Then I was about 16 and I founda solution with alcohol.
(02:45):
I felt better.
I mean, problem solved, and youknow, inhibitions gone.
I mean, it just felt so muchbetter inside.
And in part and really mostlybecause of that cycle, I began
drinking more and more regularlyand more.
And then the volume I wasdrinking went up.
(03:07):
What would happen was is I knewthat what I was doing was wrong
when I was over-drinking,drinking to excess, and some of
the stuff that I had done, anddrinking and driving, and I knew
it was all wrong.
And so my cycle was somethinglike this.
I'd feel bad about the way Ithought about myself.
So then I'd drink and I'd feelbetter.
(03:29):
Then I'd sober up and feel worsebecause of the things that I'd
done and all the things thatwere wrong.
And so then I'd feel worse.
And so then I'd drink.
And so in short, I just left apath for a lot of years of pain.
I mean, I caused so much painand destruction to other human
beings, let alone myself, thatit's just really sad because
(03:52):
some things, some things youcan't go back and fix.
And I cause a lot of thosethings to happen.
And, you know, eventually, Ilike to say, with the help of
horses and the grace of God, Ifinally broke out of that cycle
because let me tell you, I wasingrained into it.
And I mean, when I meandrinking, I mean like drinking.
And I mean I didn't miss anydays.
(04:12):
I was 100% or two decades worthof drinking, 20 years plus.
And I missed two days that I washospitalized, and I mean I was
drinking a lot.
So there's a lot, a lot of ofjust ugliness that was wrapped
up in this because at the verybest, you're not present to
participate in life or yourrelationships at the best.
And, you know, as I over alittle bit of time, as I sobered
(04:37):
up and began my new life andthing, and I do thank God and
horses for that in that order.
I looked back and I, you know,we've all kind of said this a
lot of times.
I'm like, man, I wish I wouldhave known this.
And that right there is whatinspired me, you know, this
stable living coaching that Ido, where I talk to teens and I
(04:59):
talk to their parents, and someof them they're experiencing
similar things that we kind ofall go through and developing
our identity of just feeling badand knowing that that's okay is
just a big thing, you know.
So there's a long answer to yourquestion.
SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
Yeah, no, I really appreciate that.
And I appreciate the candor andthe self-awareness that you have
as you share.
Because I think your story, likeone of the things that I think,
I mean, there's a lot ofpowerful aspects to it, but I
think one of the things that'sso powerful is the way you can
reflect back and kind of seethose significant moments where
you're like, oh, I look back onthis or I see this, and being
(05:36):
able to reflect and then sit init from the place you are now
and share the wisdom that's comethrough that whole confluence of
people and moments and God andhorses and all those things
coming together for you in waysthat support the person you are
now and the work you're able tonow, I think is just such an
incredible, incredible storythat imbues any challenge with
(05:58):
so much hope.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
Yeah, hope's a big thing.
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
Because I think too, if we have people listening who
are feeling like rock bottom orthere's, you know, nowhere else
we can go, having the space andtime to look and be like, Well,
this sounds familiar, right?
I'm really resonating with whatyou're saying.
There's hope.
I could do something, right?
There's there's options for me.
And I think that that in and ofitself is a gift, right?
To just not feel that helplessfeeling, like there's nothing
(06:25):
else you can do, nowhere elseyou can go.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Yeah, that's such a big thing.
I mean, a lot of times it's notsomething that you learn in the
normal course, and like yousaid, it can be so confusing and
overwhelming.
We don't know what to do orwhere to go and where to turn.
A lot of times, just knowingthat somebody's there with you
to hear you and validate, andthen also to be able to learn
things.
One of the big lessons thatyou're kind of talking about or
(06:52):
that I was talking about, isthat I really thought that the
total goal of life was to feelgood all the time.
And I didn't know it was okaynot to.
So I was constantly, ifeverything just didn't feel good
all the time, I was constantlyjust going for the good, and
that's just not the way it is.
And when you're avoiding feelinglife is what that is, right?
(07:14):
Buffering or doing all theseactivities.
In my case, the biggest thingthat I did was drinking for so
many years to try to escape lifebecause I just like you said, I
didn't know I didn't know whatto do with it.
I didn't know what to do withwhat was going on inside of me
here.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Yeah, yeah.
If you're listening, he justpointed to his head and to his
heart.
Yeah, no, and I think it's oneof the reasons that I feel so
strongly about mindfulness andthe ability to sit in whatever
emotion that we're in, you know,and just be present with it,
right?
And to have the tools and thesupport that we need, the
confidence that we need to like,I can sit here for a minute,
(07:50):
like I can feel this, right?
I can I can sit with this.
And I think when you don't havethat orientation to life though,
and you have a mass, a reallybig in my coaching, we call it a
beach ball.
You're shoving the emotion downso you don't have to feel it,
and it's filling up this beachball, right?
And then at some points thebeach ball pops up, and it's
(08:11):
usually where you don't expectit.
But as you're talking about interms of buffering, the more we
do that, like you mentioned inyour story, the more we
accumulate that we then have tosit with, right?
So the burden of it only getsbigger the longer we kind of
push off the willingness tofeel.
And one of the things that Ithink from what you shared
(08:33):
that's so powerful is being ableto sit with someone who has the
self-awareness to kind ofbacktrack into all those moments
and sit with you in thosemoments, right?
Like you can accompany someoneto a wide variety of places
where they didn't show up maybethe way they wanted to.
They weren't proud of howsomething turned out.
They recognize that they'redoing stuff that's hurting them,
(08:54):
but they keep doing more justbecause sitting with that
feeling is so uncomfortable.
It it's not easy to do that.
But in your coaching and in yourwork, you're able to sit with
someone pretty much whereverthey are, right?
And I think that's the the poweris your empathy in those moments
to say, like, hey, I get ittruly, right?
(09:14):
Like I've been there, I get it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
Yeah, I appreciate you.
I appreciate your perspective.
And you know, it is true thatyou know, just because my thing
was drinking, the thing of it isis kind of like you're saying,
part of this is just part of thebe a human experience, you know,
and there's so many things thatwe do that so many different
activities.
It doesn't have to be drinking,it can be a plethora of all
(09:39):
these activities that we can do,everything from over media to
over anything, over eating, overdrinking, overworking, yep, over
busy, over, you know.
I tried that one too, you know.
And so, yeah, there's so manythings that we can do to push
off.
And so it's the same concept asyeah, no, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
I read a book, I can't remember the author it
right now, but she was talkingabout how if we have that kind
of addiction to numbing, that wewill just transfer it, right?
Until we can sit with it andkind of sort out where it's
coming from and how to work withit, we'll shift and we may not
do this thing anymore, but wejust do this thing instead, and
then this one and then this one.
(10:20):
And I think that's such apowerful recognition that you
just shared in terms of ourhumanity.
That's a shared human trait,right?
We can shift around all day longour focus and attention to avoid
the thing that's nagging at usfor some work.
Okay, well, let's get into thepart about horses because I feel
like this is such a unique partof your story, and I just love
this approach.
(10:40):
So talk to us a little bit forcontext here about how horses
played a role in your story, andthen we'll get into the work
that you do now and more theother things you've learned and
been able to facilitate betweenhumans and horses in the last
while.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah, right.
I'm sure.
So, yeah, I mean, when I was ayoung kid, matter of fact, I was
named after a Western moviecalled named Shane that came out
in the 60s.
My mom thought that that guyAlan Ladd and that movie was the
greatest thing ever.
So that's me.
When I was a kid, I alwayswanted to be a cowboy and do all
the cool things cowboys do.
And I have done a lot of thosethings and had the opportunity
(11:14):
to work with horses for mycareer for the last 30 years and
doing lots of different thingsrelated in the horse industry.
And horses are just theseamazing, magnificent creatures,
creation.
I think they're like one ofGod's gifts.
And you know, mostly what horsesdid for me is just kind of tend
me.
You know, I'm a farrier.
(11:35):
So one of the things I do withhorses is I deal with hoof care
and putting shoes on horses'feet and all of that.
Well, let me just tell you, ifyou're not familiar with that
type of activity, it can beextremely dangerous.
Now, when you're drinking andyou involve that, it's just
dangerous.
You know, I think God and Horsesjust basically tended me or
babysat me until I could come toa realization.
(11:58):
There was one time where Ithought that a horse talked to
me, but that could have been thealcohol or God, I don't know.
But mainly I was just kind ofwith horses and they kind of
gave me comfort and got methrough until I could see that I
needed to make that change.
And when I look at horses in mystable living coaching, we use
horses.
Basically, we just demonstratethe principles.
(12:19):
My coaching virtual,occasionally we have a live
event where we actually usehorses to demonstrate these
ideas, which is a lot of fun.
But horses really can just, Idon't know, they're innocent and
they're noble and yet they don'troll over.
There's just like so many waysthat horses are that apply to
human relationships.
(12:39):
And so that's kind of what I do.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Yeah, thank you.
And then uh one of the things,too, I was reading, it wasn't
even necessarily yourpreparation for this, but my
eyes perked up when I saw itjust because I knew we had this
conversation coming up.
Just a story about thetherapeutic nature of horses.
It was in the reader's digest,and just talking about how the
sensory nature of horses is sopowerful.
(13:04):
Can you speak to that a littlebit?
In the article, they were justtalking about their interactions
with the horses that allowedthem to notice things about
themselves, like you'redescribing, that were kind of
concealed to them before, butthe horse reflecting back like
the energy they were bringing,or the horse reflecting back
just the interaction is whattaught them so much about
(13:25):
themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (13:26):
Yeah, that's a great one right there.
That horses are used in so manydifferent kinds of therapy, and
I'm not sure what all the magicis.
And it does sometimes it reallydoes seem like magic.
I don't know that what you feeland what you receive, but what
you're talking about, I think ismore of a concrete thing that I
also talk about a lot.
And that is that so horses areso reactive.
(13:49):
When you come into the barn orwhen you come into proximity
with another, with a horse, youknow, they're not gonna say,
hey, you kind of seem like yougot something going on there.
Is everything okay?
You know, they can't reallycommunicate like that.
So that, but they're totallycueing in on everything.
Okay.
I mean, if you come to the barnand it's like, well, I got a
secret and I'll just keep itunder my hat today.
(14:11):
I mean, the word is out themoment you show up, you know,
everybody knows what there ain'tno secrets in the barn.
So and because horses, becausethey need to be just because of
the nature of their, you know,they're a prey animal and so
they're just totally cued in ofall their senses on what they're
perceiving.
And like you said, as theymirror that, okay.
(14:33):
So for example, if I come up tothis horse and I'm like, oh man,
I'm afraid.
I wonder if it's gonna kick meor whatever, more than likely
what they're thinking is like,wow, something's really wrong
here.
I can sense that that beingsenses something's wrong.
What is it?
You know, and then they kind ofcreate the reality that
something is wrong and to beafraid of.
(14:54):
And so that's just one exampleof fear or lack of confidence.
If we're angry, if we're justfeeling content and peaceful,
they know that also.
And just being able to see thatbeing reflected back to you, to
me, that, you know, a lot oftimes we think that we're not
really influencing the worldaround us, man.
I'm telling you, when when it isso evident in horses, but the
(15:17):
truth is the same thing ishappening with people.
They might not be quite asperceptive in some things, but
everything that inside of us iscoming out, and we're
influencing everyone.
And so, yeah, that's a big thingright there.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
Yeah.
No, I love the way you describedthat.
I think especially how you saidspeaking with our energy.
As humans, we often use ourwords to communicate, but with
horses being able to interpretenergy and the energy bring to
an interaction or just springinto a space.
I walk my dogs near the house,and there are quite a few horse
properties nearby.
(15:53):
There's this one fence weusually stop at.
One of my dogs, she's superfriendly with the horse.
The horse will canter up andeven sometimes just gallop over.
When this one dog comes to thefence, my other dog is a little
more reactive and just like alittle more intense.
So if that dog is close to thefence, the horse is more
hesitant and a little bit,doesn't come running over.
(16:14):
But it's really, it's been socurious to me to see these two
animals like engaged with eachother because you know they're
not communicating in any otherway but their energy.
But they have this really sweetrelationship, like they'll just
go nose to nose against thischain-link fence, you know, when
they're over there together.
And this one dog, she just hasthis fun, playful, just kind of
(16:35):
goofy energy, and the horse justseems to gravitate to it.
It's just fun for me to witness.
So I have a reference pointthere.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
That's a great observation.
There's a parallel therebecause, you know, what's inside
of that one dog, and this is notmaking judgment on either dog
because who knows what's goingon inside.
But as far as making aconnection, what's going on
inside with the one that'scoming up and going nose to
nose, and there's a reason whythe other one isn't, right?
And that that's because ofwhat's going on and they can
(17:04):
feel and is being communicated.
And, you know, really that's ifwe want to communicate with
people, just being intentionalabout what's inside of us is
pretty powerful.
SPEAKER_01 (17:13):
Yeah, no, I love that correlation.
Thank you.
So let's talk now in more detailabout just horses in general.
So, like when a horse is facinga challenge, how do they manage
that?
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
Yeah.
I'll take it one step furtherand they'll give a specific type
of challenge.
I'll just make this parallelabout forgiveness.
And so man and woman with ahorse, we'll call that a
relationship.
And we'll then we'll draw theparallel of uh human beings to
human beings.
So now, enter I into with thehorse.
Okay.
(17:45):
So as human beings and horses inthis relationship, because of
the nature of human beings andhorses, I'm gonna make a
mistake.
So I'm gonna probably dosomething over the course of
this thing that's gonna beunfair.
So now this horse has achallenge.
What is he going to do aboutthis thing that I'm doing,
right?
(18:05):
That he either doesn'tunderstand.
And let's just say that I'mdoing the best I can over here,
because two things are mostlikely that happened.
Either I am trying tocommunicate something or I'm
giving this horse something thathe can't understand, and I think
that he can, so I'm doing mybest intent, and it doesn't
matter which one it is in thisexample, my emotions took over
(18:27):
and I reacted and I didsomething that's unfair.
Okay.
Either way, the horse isperceiving it as he doesn't
understand and something'swrong.
He's faced with this challenge,like, what am I gonna do now
with you?
And so if we on one side of thisrecognize that if we come to
recognize that we were eitherunfair for whatever reason,
(18:50):
either because we didn't know orwe just lost it for a minute,
whatever, then, you know, aslong as we continue to do that,
we're gonna get the samereaction from the horse.
In other words, he's not gonnajust say, well, go ahead and,
you know, I'm gonna accept allthis, I'm gonna roll over, I'm
gonna lay down, chain, andyou're gonna drive over me, you
know, every time you come by.
(19:10):
That ain't happening, right?
He's not, he's gonna have aboundary, he's not gonna accept
that.
There's gonna be, we're gonnahave a conflict.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Have to sort it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Yeah.
So if I can come to the place,and let's just say in my
example, that I realized thatthat horse couldn't either
understand or what that I did isunfair to start with.
And so now I'm gonna change it.
Okay, I'm gonna change thisbehavior.
So I come back to the horse thenext day, and he's expecting the
same thing, right?
So he's already anticipating andpreparing for the same thing
(19:42):
that I have been doing.
Maybe it's a cue to I don't knowwhat.
It's just something that's notworking.
So he's anticipating this, but Ido something different.
And let's just say in thisexample, he deems it, judges it
to be fair, andor he understandsit.
And so he Looks at it, hehesitates, he digests, and then
he moves forward and kind ofcomes together and solves this
(20:05):
conflict.
About the next day, he'santicipating less.
And once he sees that trust, itrepairs so fast.
The speed of trust of horses isincredible.
Even if you would look back andsay, I can't believe I did that.
How did I expect him to believethis?
Or that was so unfair.
I lost my patience.
But here's the thing it onlytakes about three times or three
(20:27):
days-ish, depending on the levelof whatever.
Okay.
And that thing's gone.
I mean, there is no trace,there's no residue, there's no
evidence.
That horse is not in the back ofhis mind thinking, this is that
guy that did that thing.
And you know it's gone becausethere would be some evidence of
something lurking around thecorner that would surface back
(20:51):
up somewhere in thisrelationship.
And it doesn't.
They fully accept the change andthey take it.
Now, like I said, you can't justdo whatever you want and it's
okay all the time.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying when you change andthey accept that change, which
happens fast, that when it'sgone, it's gone.
I really like this one withhorses.
(21:11):
When you can see that and haveit demonstrated, even in a small
way, not that we do thingsunfair to a horse to
demonstrate, but when you seewhat they will accept just
because of our imperfections,that when you see them accept
that and the resilience thatthey have and then the
forgiveness of never bringing itup again in the future, it's
incredible.
You know, that right there,that's just a big one.
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really beautiful.
And so you're saying you comparethat to like a relationship
where maybe a man and a womanare in a relationship and
they're having some conflict andthen they're, you know, like
maybe it keeps getting stirredup even if it's resolved, you're
saying this is this is kind oflike a model we can take to work
through conflict in a moreforgiving or accepting way.
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
I'm saying that.
I'm saying that if I can takethat behavior that somebody did
to me and move it over there andsay, you did that behavior.
However, I'm fully accepting youas a human being and I'm gonna
let it go.
I'm gonna fully let it go.
I'm just gonna let it go becauseI don't know, my kind of default
has been in relationships.
If I'm not careful, I'm gonnabring up that past, which is not
(22:18):
helpful, by the way.
It didn't help me on my sideeither, even though I thought it
would.
But it's something that I thinkif we're not intentional about
fully letting go and makingmeaning, what does that mean
about me?
What is that thing that you didto me, Lindsay?
What does that mean about me andwhat am I gonna do with it?
Can I take a look and say, okay,you did something that I'm not
(22:40):
gonna say you are something, butyou did something that wasn't
fair to me.
And I'm gonna say that you didthat action and I'm not gonna
like it, and I'm not gonnaaccept it, and I'm not gonna
roll over, and it's not okaythat you did it.
However, I'm gonna fully pushthat aside and I'm gonna fully
accept you a hundred percent ifI so choose to do so.
SPEAKER_01 (23:01):
Yeah.
No, I think that's superpowerful.
And again, just in my simpleexample of dogs and horses
between the fence, I've seenthat where if it's been a couple
days since my one dog gotfeisty, I'll see the horse give
her a chance.
And if she's over by the fence,she'll come over and start
sniffing around, and the horsewill come over a little more
hesitant.
But if it's been a while sinceshe's barked at her, then the
(23:21):
horse will come over and be openand willing to engage.
Usually the other dog will barkand then we go back.
But I am surprised routinelyabout the number of chances that
my one dog gets, who tends to bea little more feisty.
So I totally have a smallexample of seeing that in
action.
And I do think it's incredibleto just appreciate the presence
(23:42):
that that takes.
Because again, it's like thehorse knows if there's something
off energetically.
And so you're saying likereading the room, being really
present in the moment thatyou're in allows you to make
those kind of judgment calls andto say, like, this is not a
moment I need to be concernedabout that, and I'm gonna let it
(24:03):
go.
I'm not gonna bring it into thismoment because this moment has
its own unique qualities.
SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
You nail that horses are fully in the moment, fully
immersed in the moment.
SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
I love that.
Okay, let's go to another one.
Let's talk a little more aboutcommunication.
We've touched on this ingenerally, but like what if
there's a lack of communication,like the horse doesn't know what
you want to think.
This has some great correlationsto relationships, also.
But what does the horse do inthose moments?
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
Yeah.
With parents, unity isimportant.
That means that what we'recommunicating to our kids is the
same.
That's a big parallel withhorses, because if they're
getting different messages fromdifferent people that they don't
understand the way the worldworks.
And, you know, neither do ourkids in that example.
But basic communication is witha horse is the same as it is
(24:52):
with human beings.
It's just so evident and easy tosee with horses because what
happens is when I communicatesomething to you, okay.
Let's just say I'm asking you todo something.
I'm asking you to do this, andyou're not doing it.
Why aren't you doing it?
And I'm just, I keep asking youand asking you, and I'm gonna
(25:15):
escalate how I'm asking you, andI'm gonna increase the pressure.
I'm gonna continue to increasethe pressure, and I'm doing
everything I can, and now I'mgonna force you to do this if
you're not careful.
What's happening is if you'renot understanding me, you know,
first of all, I'm alreadystarting to get frustrated
because I'm asking you, I'mdoing everything I can to
(25:35):
respectfully ask you to complyand to come my way, and you're
not doing anything, and it'sgetting pretty frustrating over
here, and you're on the otherend over there, your frustration
is going up just as much becauseyou're seeing that you're like,
you're doing this, and thenyou're why are you doing all
that?
You know, I'm over here tryingto figure this thing out and
nothing's working.
(25:56):
And so these things, I mean,with horses, this is when you
want to have 911 ready to dialon your phone.
Because what happens is asthings escalate in this
communication, in this lack ofcommunication, and the
frustration increases is where,you know, horses are either
going to run over you on a wayto get away or to lash out and
fight and hurt you.
(26:18):
I mean, in an extreme case.
But the basic idea is that I'mtalking about in communication,
it's just so frustrating whenwe're not intentional with
communication for both sides ofthe party.
And so we really have to look atfirst of all, are you
understanding me?
And if not, in the horse world,this is interesting.
There's an old school of thoughtthat says if you're in the
(26:38):
middle of it, you can't give up,or you know, you'll ruin
everything.
You have to win the battle ifyou created one.
That's the worst idea ever.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
I think that goes for kids too.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
For sure.
The time to stop is now regroup.
Take yourself out of thatposition and think it through,
then you can go back with adifferent communication that
hopefully it will be understood.
SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Yeah.
No, I think that's reallypowerful.
There's the, you know, thevisual of that.
Like if you're again withhorses, how many commands can
horses generally recognize?
Like words-wise, are therethings you're saying that
they're connecting with, or isit mostly body language and
touch, or you know, let's go alittle deeper there because I
feel like there's some gems.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
Yeah, there's how much can horses understand?
They can, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Verbal, verbally, like in your experience.
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
They can understand quite a bit if we condition them
to.
I only use a handful of sounds.
A kiss, a kick, a click, andwhoa, they understand that word,
and you know, walk on.
I only use a handful of verbalcues.
I would imagine that if youintended to, that they could
(27:53):
pick up on, understand a lot ofdifferent kinds of verbal
language, but I use thosespecifically.
I know with dogs that a lot oftimes they teach dogs different
languages so they don't getconfused in your, you know, what
you're trying to ask them to do.
And so I don't know.
I have kept over my scope ofthings that at a minimum, but
horses, they're picking up oneverything, you know.
(28:17):
So we condition them to certainverbal cues and then certain
body language that we're doing.
And then, like when we'reriding, they feel everything.
This is kind of interesting thata horse, let's just say an
average horse is 1,000 pounds.
Okay.
So that's a pretty big creature,a thousand pounds.
(28:39):
And from the tip of their noseto the back of their tailbone,
they can feel a little bittygnat or a little bitty fly
through their hair coat anywhereon their body.
Okay.
And so when you add a saddle anda rider, me, a human being up
(29:00):
there flopping around, let metell you, they feel everything.
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
Yeah.
Okay.
I feel like there was so much inthere that correlates because I
think that especially for thoseof us who may have kids who tend
toward more sensitive natures.
And I know we have quite a fewlisteners who would identify as
like parents of kids who arepretty sensitive.
I think what you said about thelooks you might have, your body
(29:27):
language and your words havingjust as much communication,
right, as those words, thoseother signals to kids are pretty
big.
And sometimes they come throughstronger, right, than what we
say.
So even if we're saying we'reokay or we're saying things are
okay or we're not upset, ifthey're reading the other parts
of us, if they're like readingthe energy that we're putting
(29:48):
out, if we're they're readingour, you know, facial cues or
our body language, they're gonnabe picking up what we're
throwing down, right?
Like whatever it is we'rebringing to the interaction,
they're gonna pick up on.
And I think that circles back toyour idea earlier of kind of
minding your energy, right?
Like minding your own bearingand how you're coming to a
situation.
(30:09):
And then I also think just theidea of having a few key phrases
or sounds that you use, not thatwe want to call to our kids like
we call for horses, maybe, but Iknow people, especially myself,
I can get pretty verbose,believe it or not, when it comes
to my kiddo.
And I'll tell a story or share aconcept in a lot of words that
(30:32):
sometimes start to get lostbecause we're kind of done
listening to the words, and youknow, whereas having like a few
key things that we can refer toor connect with that that speak
more, I think that that'spowerful.
And I know for me in ourmindfulness conversations,
that's one of the reasons I lovestories.
(30:54):
Listeners will recognize theidea of the thought river.
So if in a moment with my kiddo,I can say instead of giving a
big long spiel about how I don'tknow that that's a thought we
should pay attention to and it'snot really true.
And I wish you would thinkbetter about yourself, or I wish
you wouldn't be so hard onyourself, you know, I could go
off and say all those things, orI can say something like, is
(31:15):
that something you could letfloat down your thought river?
And it's a small reference, kindof like your, you know, the the
noises that you made or the thesmall ways you signal to the
horse, but it's a smallreference that carries a lot of
weight.
And so being able to have thosetools and strategies at our
disposal as parents is soimportant because we can convey
(31:36):
a whole lot with just a tinybit.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
I absolutely love that because that is super
powerful.
If I have a comment, I don'tthink that a lot of times my
complete analysis over you knowexactly over about a half hour
is just not gonna be helpful.
And so a friend of mine, hiswife used to say like if you ask
(31:59):
Mike what time it is, he'll tellyou how a watch works.
I mean, especially with kids,that's a great thought.
I love it.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
I think too, I like what you said about the horse's
sensitivity and maybe taking itin different vein.
Like as parents, parents who arelistening, caring an awful lot,
and you generally notice what'sgoing on with kids, right?
And all those tiny, like yousaid, the gnat or the fly or the
heavier burden of a personsitting on the horse.
(32:34):
I think as parents, too, beingpatient and having compassion
and just good self-care, becausewe are shouldering all those
things, right?
Like we are sensitive to thedifferent needs of our kids, the
different struggles of our kids,whether it's the tiny little
things or the more weightythings that they're navigating,
like recognizing the weight ofresponsibility that we carry for
(32:56):
them, it's important, right?
Like with for a horse, you'renot asking the horse to kind of
go longer than it can or carrythat burden farther than it's
able, or to do so without theproper nourishment or care or
equipment or whatever, right?
And in that way, I think too, asparents, we need to avail
ourselves of the support of thejust compassionate self-care
(33:20):
that's required in order tocarry the weight of child
rearing.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
I have a comment on that, and I couldn't agree with
you more because what I took outof that is that is one of really
what I would like to say to mostparents and to my younger self
is that it is a lot ofresponsibility and it is a lot
of weight.
And sometimes it can feel justtoo much, you know, it can just
(33:45):
feel overbearing.
And the parents that I talk to,they're doing the best that they
can.
The thing of it is, is it's likethe default language is I suck
as a parent because I did ordidn't do a certain thing.
And really that we care so muchthat we make one, the everything
that we do, we're hyper focusedin on and we're damaging
(34:08):
ourselves internally andemotionally because of the way
that we're thinking about it.
And sometimes we even think thatwe're doing a good thing.
In other words, well, I'm takingownership of it, and you know,
it's a good idea to think thatI'm an idiot for what I've been
doing because, you know, I don'twant to do it again, and I'm the
responsible one.
And I'm telling you, it's theopposite.
(34:30):
I want parents to know whatyou're talking about.
You're gonna make some mistakes,and it's okay because those
beliefs and those ideas andthose thoughts and those words
that you're thinking about themistakes that you're making,
they're coming out and you'reteaching your kids things that
you don't want to have happen.
It just like they come out, yourkids are picking it up whether
(34:51):
you know it or not, just likehorses do.
I want human beings and parentsespecially, just to more
intentionally take a look atthose thoughts that they're
having about themselves and thewords that they're using around
their kids and have it be okay.
I mean, you're gonna make somemistakes.
It's gonna be that way.
But that's the first thing Ihear when I talk to parents is
(35:12):
just all this self-belittlingand criticizing and condemning
and on and on.
SPEAKER_01 (35:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm really glad youpointed that out because I think
it's a really powerfulobservation that when we are
struggling, especially withsomething that feels as crucial
to us as our kids, right?
I mean, it's the job we careabout so much.
And when we are struggling, weare often looking for support,
but being so mean to ourselvesand not giving ourselves kind of
(35:41):
internal support that you'respeaking of.
One of my favorite mindfulnessexercises or meditations is the
loving-kindness meditation.
I don't know if you're familiarwith it, but the idea is that
you imagine yourself first andthen you imagine people around
you who just love you so muchand are just sending you love,
just sending it, and you imagineyourself like filling up with
(36:03):
it, and you just feel so caredfor and so loved that it's like
overflowing out of you.
And then from there, themeditation continues and you
send that love to someone thatyou love, someone that's neutral
to you, someone who you havesome sort of conflict or
disagreement with, and then tothe world.
But the idea is that you're sofull of love, you're so full of
(36:26):
goodness and like that just carefor yourself that it's
overflowing out of you.
And I think when we'restruggling, it is really tricky
to come by those types offeelings, right?
And we end up parenting from alack instead of an overflow of
love.
And it it sounds trite, butreally the way that we consider
ourselves and the way that wecare for ourselves is what
(36:47):
creates that circumstance,right?
Whether we feel full of thatkind of care or whether we feel
like we're lacking it and kindof scrounging for it.
And so I love what you saidbecause I think it speaks to the
realization that we do our bestas parents, even when we're
making mistakes, when we canfoster that kind of
self-compassion that's neededjust for ourselves, because then
(37:07):
it flows from us outward.
SPEAKER_00 (37:10):
Yep, that's exactly right.
I love that idea.
Super good.
Most of my work's with teenagersand parents, but just one
example.
I have a couple of parents thathave younger kids too.
And one lady was telling me astory recently about how she has
this newborn, and she set herdown on the bed and turned to
(37:31):
get some clothes out of thedresser, and she rolled over and
hit the ground.
And she was like traumatizedover this.
The mother, okay.
The baby was okay.
You know, luckily, baby notharmed, everything's okay.
But the mother was, it's a bigdeal.
I mean, she was making someserious meaning about this whole
thing.
And the thing of it is, is thisthe infant may or may not have
(37:54):
been old enough to really pickup.
She did pick up on her initialreaction and it made her cry
more.
But our kids are, it's nottrite.
I mean, these things meanthings.
Our thoughts and the languagethat we have about our thoughts
and our for sure our languagebecause our kids are picking up
on.
They are learning how to treatthemselves by the way that we
(38:15):
treat themselves from what theyhear.
A lot of times we parent lessbecause we isolate, we kind of
move away if we feel bad aboutourselves.
There's so many things that arehaving a direct impact.
I mean, it matters.
SPEAKER_01 (38:29):
Yeah.
I know thanks for sharing that.
I think one of the most poignantquotes that I've heard about
that is the way that you talk toyourself in a mistake is going
to be the way that your childtalks to themselves, you know,
next week or 20 years from nowin a mistake.
So you're using the languagewith yourself that you want them
(38:50):
to use for themselves.
Like that's the kind of trainingthat we're doing as parents.
We're modeling what a mistakemeans and how we should treat
ourselves after a mistake.
And so if we can have the kindof compassion and the grace that
we want them to have forthemselves, like we've got to
model it first so that theydidn't know what it looks like.
SPEAKER_00 (39:11):
For sure.
SPEAKER_01 (39:13):
Well, and then just to bring that full circle, what
do you see, like in terms ofhorses?
How do you correlate there?
In terms of a situation whereyou might feel shame or you
might feel like you've donesomething wrong, or there's like
an awareness.
Do you see that same kind ofrebound as with the forgiveness
that we talked about earlier,where they can just be present
in this new moment that they'rein after they've prepared?
SPEAKER_00 (39:38):
Two things on that.
And one is that you kind oftouched on a little bit, but
everything matters to startwith.
Just know everything matters.
When you come into it, dependson what size of like an
enclosure a horse is in.
If a horse is in a smallerenclosure, you can be a little
bit closer before they reallystart to hone in on you.
(39:59):
But if a horse is Turned outinto big pasture, they can be a
long ways away, like more than100 yards or plus, you know, and
they can start to really pick upon what you're putting down.
And so in a stall in a barn, andyou know, there's so much
activity and stuff like thatthat you would need to be
closer, like you'd need to bewithin 10 feet of their stall,
(40:19):
depending on whatever.
So when you come into proximitywith the horse, everything you
do makes a difference.
Everything.
And here's an example of this.
At our barn or any barn, thestall cleaner makes a
difference.
He goes in there and cleans thestall.
He picks up the manure andchecks the bedding and checks
(40:40):
the water and whatever he does.
The stall cleaner impacts thathorse's life.
It impacts how he's going toride, how he's going to interact
with the owner, with the groom,whoever comes to pick him up.
Everything matters, literally.
So just know that, just to startwith.
That's a concept I fully believein in his lifetime.
A lot of times I think like, oh,it's just this little thing or
(41:01):
that.
And we need to prioritizethings.
That's not what I'm saying, butI'm just saying that everything
really does, everything matters.
And then kind of like back whatyou said is that when, you know,
as far as shame horses justbeing able to be present and
really the miracle that theydon't hold on to things and
remember things is really themiracle.
(41:21):
And I don't know for sure whatgoes on inside their head, but I
know for sure that they don'tremember.
And I don't know that they canfully separate actions from the
value of a human being, which isone thing that I really talk a
lot about, of being able to dofor ourselves because that gives
us the capacity to do that forother people, for our kids, and
(41:42):
for all our human beings.
And then it starts right here.
But one thing for sure is again,I just think it's such a big
idea that really it starts withourselves.
This idea of forgiveness andfully letting it go.
If we can develop the capacity,and what it is possible to do,
trust me, because I've done somestuff.
(42:02):
Okay, we're not going to talkabout all of it right now.
Okay, but we all have, you know,to some degree that I'm ashamed
of.
So we all get to experience thisshame, right?
It's part of, again, human, ourlife experience.
These things really do defineus.
And if you don't think you'redefined, if you're not
intentional about it, it'shappening for you anyway.
And probably it's not turningout as good as it could if
(42:25):
you're not being intentionalabout it.
If we can really come to knowthat the things that we have
done go through the process,Bernane Brown has a great shame
and resilience, you know, stepsto go through.
If we can own it, if we canshare it with people that have
earned our trust, and then if wecan at some point separate it
from our value as who we areworth as a human being, and
(42:48):
fully let it go, feel it, andmove on without having residue,
I think is a worthy goal.
SPEAKER_01 (42:56):
Yeah.
That's so well put.
And I I love Brene Brown forthat reason.
I think, yeah, I I love what youshared in terms of the way we
connect with ourselves being thetemplate for which both our kids
learn to connect with themselvesand for the way that we create
the relationship with them.
(43:16):
And when you say care abouteverything, I think I can hear
some listeners having someanxiety about that and feeling
stressed.
But I think the key being therereally are just a few basics
that we can kind of build on,right?
This idea of self-compassion,this idea of our worth not
changing and our worth beingconstant no matter what.
(43:38):
If we can build there, then allthose minutes that do matter,
they're a little smoother,right?
Because what we've built insideof us creates a different kind
of approach.
And I think if we're so busylike listening to this person's
take or wanting to do the exactright thing in this situation,
or you know, like trying tofigure out the words in this
(43:59):
situation.
And if we are just trying toscramble and kind of tie
together those things in each ofthose moments, it's really
challenging.
But when we can take thatmindful and intentional approach
with the self-compassion andwith that strong tether to our
worth, those moments are, I'mnot gonna say they're easy, but
there's an ease to the momentwhen that's the basis from which
(44:23):
you're approaching it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
Yeah.
Great, that's awesome.
I agree with you.
That may have came out like, ohman, I have more things to worry
about because my point ofeverything mattering, but really
at the core, horses are superresilient, and our kids are
actually more resilient than wethink.
And I think really what matters,when I say everything matters,
we're gonna make mistakes, andthat's gonna matter.
(44:46):
What matters most is what wemodel of how we handle those
mistakes.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:52):
Yeah, I think it's a good point.
And I think that again, thisidea of being able to sit with
whatever comes up for us,whatever we're feeling, whatever
our kiddo is feeling, those arethe things that matter.
And when we do from thatfoundation, we cannot expect
perfection from ourselves, butdive into that idea of
resilience that you shared andbuild that sense of resilience
within ourselves and our kidsone moment at a time.
unknown (45:14):
For sure.
SPEAKER_01 (45:15):
Well, Shane, thank you so much for your time today.
This has been such a funconversation.
Talk to our listeners aboutwhere they can learn more about
you and your work.
SPEAKER_00 (45:23):
Oh, thanks so much.
Everything we do do is at StableLiving Coaching.com.
I have a free weekly video thatyou can sign up for if you're
inclined.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (45:34):
Yeah, thanks again.
Thanks for listening to theStress Nanny.
If you found today's episodehelpful, be sure to share it
with a friend who could use alittle extra calm in their week.
And if you have a minute, I'dlove for you to leave a review.
It helps other parents find theshow and join us on this
journey.
For more tools and support, headover to www.thestressnanny.com.
(45:56):
Remember, you don't have to dostress alone.
Together we can raise kids whoknow how to navigate life with
confidence and ease.
Until next time, take a deepbreath and give yourself some
grace.
Welcome to the Stress Nanny, the podcast where
we take the overwhelm out ofparenting and help kids and
parents build calm, confidence,and connection.
I'm your host, Lindsay Miller,kids' mindfulness coach and
cheerleader for busy familieseverywhere.
Each week we'll explore simpletools, uplifting stories, and
practical strategies to helpyour child learn emotional
(00:42):
regulation, resilience, andself-confidence, while giving
you a little more peace of mind,too.
I'm so glad you're here.
My guest today is Shane Jacob.
Shane is a certified life coach,professional horseman, and
entrepreneur.
His feelings of inadequacy as ayoung adult led to drinking
alcohol to excess on a regularbasis.
(01:03):
His excessive drinking led to atragic DUI accident, which led
to incarceration.
The cycle continued.
He failed in business, failed inmarriage, destroyed
relationships, was overweight byover 40 pounds, and was so
disgusted and ashamed ofhimself.
He lied and tried to hide itfrom everyone for years.
With the help of horses andGod's hand, he finally broke
(01:23):
free.
Shane took the process andprinciples he used to turn his
life around, combined them withwhat he learned from his career,
working with horses, to createstable living coaching, where he
helps parents and teens with thechallenges they face in today's
world.
Shane, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I am looking forward to ourconversation.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Thanks so much for having me.
Appreciate the opportunity,Rende.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit moreabout how you got to where you
are now.
What led you into this part ofyour life and how you ended up
doing the work that you'redoing?
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
Sure.
Appreciate that.
So, you know, turns out when Iwas a young man, a teenager, and
even into my 20s, I seemed likeI just had this constant noise
in my head saying, you know, youjust don't quite measure up or,
you know, you're not quite goodenough.
I just felt like it was lackingin the fishing.
I had a super hard time beingaround other kids.
(02:20):
And I really tried to fit in thegroups, and I did pretty good in
sports, and I did actually be inacademics as long as I wanted
to, and then I didn't, but itdidn't feel good, you know, and
I didn't really know what to dowith it.
I didn't know anything about itother than it didn't feel good.
I knew that.
These noises, right?
This chatter in my head.
Then I was about 16 and I founda solution with alcohol.
(02:45):
I felt better.
I mean, problem solved, and youknow, inhibitions gone.
I mean, it just felt so muchbetter inside.
And in part and really mostlybecause of that cycle, I began
drinking more and more regularlyand more.
And then the volume I wasdrinking went up.
(03:07):
What would happen was is I knewthat what I was doing was wrong
when I was over-drinking,drinking to excess, and some of
the stuff that I had done, anddrinking and driving, and I knew
it was all wrong.
And so my cycle was somethinglike this.
I'd feel bad about the way Ithought about myself.
So then I'd drink and I'd feelbetter.
(03:29):
Then I'd sober up and feel worsebecause of the things that I'd
done and all the things thatwere wrong.
And so then I'd feel worse.
And so then I'd drink.
And so in short, I just left apath for a lot of years of pain.
I mean, I caused so much painand destruction to other human
beings, let alone myself, thatit's just really sad because
(03:52):
some things, some things youcan't go back and fix.
And I cause a lot of thosethings to happen.
And, you know, eventually, Ilike to say, with the help of
horses and the grace of God, Ifinally broke out of that cycle
because let me tell you, I wasingrained into it.
And I mean, when I meandrinking, I mean like drinking.
And I mean I didn't miss anydays.
(04:12):
I was 100% or two decades worthof drinking, 20 years plus.
And I missed two days that I washospitalized, and I mean I was
drinking a lot.
So there's a lot, a lot of ofjust ugliness that was wrapped
up in this because at the verybest, you're not present to
participate in life or yourrelationships at the best.
And, you know, as I over alittle bit of time, as I sobered
(04:37):
up and began my new life andthing, and I do thank God and
horses for that in that order.
I looked back and I, you know,we've all kind of said this a
lot of times.
I'm like, man, I wish I wouldhave known this.
And that right there is whatinspired me, you know, this
stable living coaching that Ido, where I talk to teens and I
(04:59):
talk to their parents, and someof them they're experiencing
similar things that we kind ofall go through and developing
our identity of just feeling badand knowing that that's okay is
just a big thing, you know.
So there's a long answer to yourquestion.
SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
Yeah, no, I really appreciate that.
And I appreciate the candor andthe self-awareness that you have
as you share.
Because I think your story, likeone of the things that I think,
I mean, there's a lot ofpowerful aspects to it, but I
think one of the things that'sso powerful is the way you can
reflect back and kind of seethose significant moments where
you're like, oh, I look back onthis or I see this, and being
(05:36):
able to reflect and then sit init from the place you are now
and share the wisdom that's comethrough that whole confluence of
people and moments and God andhorses and all those things
coming together for you in waysthat support the person you are
now and the work you're able tonow, I think is just such an
incredible, incredible storythat imbues any challenge with
(05:58):
so much hope.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
Yeah, hope's a big thing.
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
Because I think too, if we have people listening who
are feeling like rock bottom orthere's, you know, nowhere else
we can go, having the space andtime to look and be like, Well,
this sounds familiar, right?
I'm really resonating with whatyou're saying.
There's hope.
I could do something, right?
There's there's options for me.
And I think that that in and ofitself is a gift, right?
To just not feel that helplessfeeling, like there's nothing
(06:25):
else you can do, nowhere elseyou can go.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Yeah, that's such a big thing.
I mean, a lot of times it's notsomething that you learn in the
normal course, and like yousaid, it can be so confusing and
overwhelming.
We don't know what to do orwhere to go and where to turn.
A lot of times, just knowingthat somebody's there with you
to hear you and validate, andthen also to be able to learn
things.
One of the big lessons thatyou're kind of talking about or
(06:52):
that I was talking about, isthat I really thought that the
total goal of life was to feelgood all the time.
And I didn't know it was okaynot to.
So I was constantly, ifeverything just didn't feel good
all the time, I was constantlyjust going for the good, and
that's just not the way it is.
And when you're avoiding feelinglife is what that is, right?
(07:14):
Buffering or doing all theseactivities.
In my case, the biggest thingthat I did was drinking for so
many years to try to escape lifebecause I just like you said, I
didn't know I didn't know whatto do with it.
I didn't know what to do withwhat was going on inside of me
here.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Yeah, yeah.
If you're listening, he justpointed to his head and to his
heart.
Yeah, no, and I think it's oneof the reasons that I feel so
strongly about mindfulness andthe ability to sit in whatever
emotion that we're in, you know,and just be present with it,
right?
And to have the tools and thesupport that we need, the
confidence that we need to like,I can sit here for a minute,
(07:50):
like I can feel this, right?
I can I can sit with this.
And I think when you don't havethat orientation to life though,
and you have a mass, a reallybig in my coaching, we call it a
beach ball.
You're shoving the emotion downso you don't have to feel it,
and it's filling up this beachball, right?
And then at some points thebeach ball pops up, and it's
(08:11):
usually where you don't expectit.
But as you're talking about interms of buffering, the more we
do that, like you mentioned inyour story, the more we
accumulate that we then have tosit with, right?
So the burden of it only getsbigger the longer we kind of
push off the willingness tofeel.
And one of the things that Ithink from what you shared
(08:33):
that's so powerful is being ableto sit with someone who has the
self-awareness to kind ofbacktrack into all those moments
and sit with you in thosemoments, right?
Like you can accompany someoneto a wide variety of places
where they didn't show up maybethe way they wanted to.
They weren't proud of howsomething turned out.
They recognize that they'redoing stuff that's hurting them,
(08:54):
but they keep doing more justbecause sitting with that
feeling is so uncomfortable.
It it's not easy to do that.
But in your coaching and in yourwork, you're able to sit with
someone pretty much whereverthey are, right?
And I think that's the the poweris your empathy in those moments
to say, like, hey, I get ittruly, right?
(09:14):
Like I've been there, I get it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
Yeah, I appreciate you.
I appreciate your perspective.
And you know, it is true thatyou know, just because my thing
was drinking, the thing of it isis kind of like you're saying,
part of this is just part of thebe a human experience, you know,
and there's so many things thatwe do that so many different
activities.
It doesn't have to be drinking,it can be a plethora of all
(09:39):
these activities that we can do,everything from over media to
over anything, over eating, overdrinking, overworking, yep, over
busy, over, you know.
I tried that one too, you know.
And so, yeah, there's so manythings that we can do to push
off.
And so it's the same concept asyeah, no, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
I read a book, I can't remember the author it
right now, but she was talkingabout how if we have that kind
of addiction to numbing, that wewill just transfer it, right?
Until we can sit with it andkind of sort out where it's
coming from and how to work withit, we'll shift and we may not
do this thing anymore, but wejust do this thing instead, and
then this one and then this one.
(10:20):
And I think that's such apowerful recognition that you
just shared in terms of ourhumanity.
That's a shared human trait,right?
We can shift around all day longour focus and attention to avoid
the thing that's nagging at usfor some work.
Okay, well, let's get into thepart about horses because I feel
like this is such a unique partof your story, and I just love
this approach.
(10:40):
So talk to us a little bit forcontext here about how horses
played a role in your story, andthen we'll get into the work
that you do now and more theother things you've learned and
been able to facilitate betweenhumans and horses in the last
while.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah, right.
I'm sure.
So, yeah, I mean, when I was ayoung kid, matter of fact, I was
named after a Western moviecalled named Shane that came out
in the 60s.
My mom thought that that guyAlan Ladd and that movie was the
greatest thing ever.
So that's me.
When I was a kid, I alwayswanted to be a cowboy and do all
the cool things cowboys do.
And I have done a lot of thosethings and had the opportunity
(11:14):
to work with horses for mycareer for the last 30 years and
doing lots of different thingsrelated in the horse industry.
And horses are just theseamazing, magnificent creatures,
creation.
I think they're like one ofGod's gifts.
And you know, mostly what horsesdid for me is just kind of tend
me.
You know, I'm a farrier.
(11:35):
So one of the things I do withhorses is I deal with hoof care
and putting shoes on horses'feet and all of that.
Well, let me just tell you, ifyou're not familiar with that
type of activity, it can beextremely dangerous.
Now, when you're drinking andyou involve that, it's just
dangerous.
You know, I think God and Horsesjust basically tended me or
babysat me until I could come toa realization.
(11:58):
There was one time where Ithought that a horse talked to
me, but that could have been thealcohol or God, I don't know.
But mainly I was just kind ofwith horses and they kind of
gave me comfort and got methrough until I could see that I
needed to make that change.
And when I look at horses in mystable living coaching, we use
horses.
Basically, we just demonstratethe principles.
(12:19):
My coaching virtual,occasionally we have a live
event where we actually usehorses to demonstrate these
ideas, which is a lot of fun.
But horses really can just, Idon't know, they're innocent and
they're noble and yet they don'troll over.
There's just like so many waysthat horses are that apply to
human relationships.
(12:39):
And so that's kind of what I do.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Yeah, thank you.
And then uh one of the things,too, I was reading, it wasn't
even necessarily yourpreparation for this, but my
eyes perked up when I saw itjust because I knew we had this
conversation coming up.
Just a story about thetherapeutic nature of horses.
It was in the reader's digest,and just talking about how the
sensory nature of horses is sopowerful.
(13:04):
Can you speak to that a littlebit?
In the article, they were justtalking about their interactions
with the horses that allowedthem to notice things about
themselves, like you'redescribing, that were kind of
concealed to them before, butthe horse reflecting back like
the energy they were bringing,or the horse reflecting back
just the interaction is whattaught them so much about
(13:25):
themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (13:26):
Yeah, that's a great one right there.
That horses are used in so manydifferent kinds of therapy, and
I'm not sure what all the magicis.
And it does sometimes it reallydoes seem like magic.
I don't know that what you feeland what you receive, but what
you're talking about, I think ismore of a concrete thing that I
also talk about a lot.
And that is that so horses areso reactive.
(13:49):
When you come into the barn orwhen you come into proximity
with another, with a horse, youknow, they're not gonna say,
hey, you kind of seem like yougot something going on there.
Is everything okay?
You know, they can't reallycommunicate like that.
So that, but they're totallycueing in on everything.
Okay.
I mean, if you come to the barnand it's like, well, I got a
secret and I'll just keep itunder my hat today.
(14:11):
I mean, the word is out themoment you show up, you know,
everybody knows what there ain'tno secrets in the barn.
So and because horses, becausethey need to be just because of
the nature of their, you know,they're a prey animal and so
they're just totally cued in ofall their senses on what they're
perceiving.
And like you said, as theymirror that, okay.
(14:33):
So for example, if I come up tothis horse and I'm like, oh man,
I'm afraid.
I wonder if it's gonna kick meor whatever, more than likely
what they're thinking is like,wow, something's really wrong
here.
I can sense that that beingsenses something's wrong.
What is it?
You know, and then they kind ofcreate the reality that
something is wrong and to beafraid of.
(14:54):
And so that's just one exampleof fear or lack of confidence.
If we're angry, if we're justfeeling content and peaceful,
they know that also.
And just being able to see thatbeing reflected back to you, to
me, that, you know, a lot oftimes we think that we're not
really influencing the worldaround us, man.
I'm telling you, when when it isso evident in horses, but the
(15:17):
truth is the same thing ishappening with people.
They might not be quite asperceptive in some things, but
everything that inside of us iscoming out, and we're
influencing everyone.
And so, yeah, that's a big thingright there.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
Yeah.
No, I love the way you describedthat.
I think especially how you saidspeaking with our energy.
As humans, we often use ourwords to communicate, but with
horses being able to interpretenergy and the energy bring to
an interaction or just springinto a space.
I walk my dogs near the house,and there are quite a few horse
properties nearby.
(15:53):
There's this one fence weusually stop at.
One of my dogs, she's superfriendly with the horse.
The horse will canter up andeven sometimes just gallop over.
When this one dog comes to thefence, my other dog is a little
more reactive and just like alittle more intense.
So if that dog is close to thefence, the horse is more
hesitant and a little bit,doesn't come running over.
(16:14):
But it's really, it's been socurious to me to see these two
animals like engaged with eachother because you know they're
not communicating in any otherway but their energy.
But they have this really sweetrelationship, like they'll just
go nose to nose against thischain-link fence, you know, when
they're over there together.
And this one dog, she just hasthis fun, playful, just kind of
(16:35):
goofy energy, and the horse justseems to gravitate to it.
It's just fun for me to witness.
So I have a reference pointthere.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
That's a great observation.
There's a parallel therebecause, you know, what's inside
of that one dog, and this is notmaking judgment on either dog
because who knows what's goingon inside.
But as far as making aconnection, what's going on
inside with the one that'scoming up and going nose to
nose, and there's a reason whythe other one isn't, right?
And that that's because ofwhat's going on and they can
(17:04):
feel and is being communicated.
And, you know, really that's ifwe want to communicate with
people, just being intentionalabout what's inside of us is
pretty powerful.
SPEAKER_01 (17:13):
Yeah, no, I love that correlation.
Thank you.
So let's talk now in more detailabout just horses in general.
So, like when a horse is facinga challenge, how do they manage
that?
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
Yeah.
I'll take it one step furtherand they'll give a specific type
of challenge.
I'll just make this parallelabout forgiveness.
And so man and woman with ahorse, we'll call that a
relationship.
And we'll then we'll draw theparallel of uh human beings to
human beings.
So now, enter I into with thehorse.
Okay.
(17:45):
So as human beings and horses inthis relationship, because of
the nature of human beings andhorses, I'm gonna make a
mistake.
So I'm gonna probably dosomething over the course of
this thing that's gonna beunfair.
So now this horse has achallenge.
What is he going to do aboutthis thing that I'm doing,
right?
(18:05):
That he either doesn'tunderstand.
And let's just say that I'mdoing the best I can over here,
because two things are mostlikely that happened.
Either I am trying tocommunicate something or I'm
giving this horse something thathe can't understand, and I think
that he can, so I'm doing mybest intent, and it doesn't
matter which one it is in thisexample, my emotions took over
(18:27):
and I reacted and I didsomething that's unfair.
Okay.
Either way, the horse isperceiving it as he doesn't
understand and something'swrong.
He's faced with this challenge,like, what am I gonna do now
with you?
And so if we on one side of thisrecognize that if we come to
recognize that we were eitherunfair for whatever reason,
(18:50):
either because we didn't know orwe just lost it for a minute,
whatever, then, you know, aslong as we continue to do that,
we're gonna get the samereaction from the horse.
In other words, he's not gonnajust say, well, go ahead and,
you know, I'm gonna accept allthis, I'm gonna roll over, I'm
gonna lay down, chain, andyou're gonna drive over me, you
know, every time you come by.
(19:10):
That ain't happening, right?
He's not, he's gonna have aboundary, he's not gonna accept
that.
There's gonna be, we're gonnahave a conflict.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Have to sort it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Yeah.
So if I can come to the place,and let's just say in my
example, that I realized thatthat horse couldn't either
understand or what that I did isunfair to start with.
And so now I'm gonna change it.
Okay, I'm gonna change thisbehavior.
So I come back to the horse thenext day, and he's expecting the
same thing, right?
So he's already anticipating andpreparing for the same thing
(19:42):
that I have been doing.
Maybe it's a cue to I don't knowwhat.
It's just something that's notworking.
So he's anticipating this, but Ido something different.
And let's just say in thisexample, he deems it, judges it
to be fair, andor he understandsit.
And so he Looks at it, hehesitates, he digests, and then
he moves forward and kind ofcomes together and solves this
(20:05):
conflict.
About the next day, he'santicipating less.
And once he sees that trust, itrepairs so fast.
The speed of trust of horses isincredible.
Even if you would look back andsay, I can't believe I did that.
How did I expect him to believethis?
Or that was so unfair.
I lost my patience.
But here's the thing it onlytakes about three times or three
(20:27):
days-ish, depending on the levelof whatever.
Okay.
And that thing's gone.
I mean, there is no trace,there's no residue, there's no
evidence.
That horse is not in the back ofhis mind thinking, this is that
guy that did that thing.
And you know it's gone becausethere would be some evidence of
something lurking around thecorner that would surface back
(20:51):
up somewhere in thisrelationship.
And it doesn't.
They fully accept the change andthey take it.
Now, like I said, you can't justdo whatever you want and it's
okay all the time.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying when you change andthey accept that change, which
happens fast, that when it'sgone, it's gone.
I really like this one withhorses.
(21:11):
When you can see that and haveit demonstrated, even in a small
way, not that we do thingsunfair to a horse to
demonstrate, but when you seewhat they will accept just
because of our imperfections,that when you see them accept
that and the resilience thatthey have and then the
forgiveness of never bringing itup again in the future, it's
incredible.
You know, that right there,that's just a big one.
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really beautiful.
And so you're saying you comparethat to like a relationship
where maybe a man and a womanare in a relationship and
they're having some conflict andthen they're, you know, like
maybe it keeps getting stirredup even if it's resolved, you're
saying this is this is kind oflike a model we can take to work
through conflict in a moreforgiving or accepting way.
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
I'm saying that.
I'm saying that if I can takethat behavior that somebody did
to me and move it over there andsay, you did that behavior.
However, I'm fully accepting youas a human being and I'm gonna
let it go.
I'm gonna fully let it go.
I'm just gonna let it go becauseI don't know, my kind of default
has been in relationships.
If I'm not careful, I'm gonnabring up that past, which is not
(22:18):
helpful, by the way.
It didn't help me on my sideeither, even though I thought it
would.
But it's something that I thinkif we're not intentional about
fully letting go and makingmeaning, what does that mean
about me?
What is that thing that you didto me, Lindsay?
What does that mean about me andwhat am I gonna do with it?
Can I take a look and say, okay,you did something that I'm not
(22:40):
gonna say you are something, butyou did something that wasn't
fair to me.
And I'm gonna say that you didthat action and I'm not gonna
like it, and I'm not gonnaaccept it, and I'm not gonna
roll over, and it's not okaythat you did it.
However, I'm gonna fully pushthat aside and I'm gonna fully
accept you a hundred percent ifI so choose to do so.
SPEAKER_01 (23:01):
Yeah.
No, I think that's superpowerful.
And again, just in my simpleexample of dogs and horses
between the fence, I've seenthat where if it's been a couple
days since my one dog gotfeisty, I'll see the horse give
her a chance.
And if she's over by the fence,she'll come over and start
sniffing around, and the horsewill come over a little more
hesitant.
But if it's been a while sinceshe's barked at her, then the
(23:21):
horse will come over and be openand willing to engage.
Usually the other dog will barkand then we go back.
But I am surprised routinelyabout the number of chances that
my one dog gets, who tends to bea little more feisty.
So I totally have a smallexample of seeing that in
action.
And I do think it's incredibleto just appreciate the presence
(23:42):
that that takes.
Because again, it's like thehorse knows if there's something
off energetically.
And so you're saying likereading the room, being really
present in the moment thatyou're in allows you to make
those kind of judgment calls andto say, like, this is not a
moment I need to be concernedabout that, and I'm gonna let it
(24:03):
go.
I'm not gonna bring it into thismoment because this moment has
its own unique qualities.
SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
You nail that horses are fully in the moment, fully
immersed in the moment.
SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
I love that.
Okay, let's go to another one.
Let's talk a little more aboutcommunication.
We've touched on this ingenerally, but like what if
there's a lack of communication,like the horse doesn't know what
you want to think.
This has some great correlationsto relationships, also.
But what does the horse do inthose moments?
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
Yeah.
With parents, unity isimportant.
That means that what we'recommunicating to our kids is the
same.
That's a big parallel withhorses, because if they're
getting different messages fromdifferent people that they don't
understand the way the worldworks.
And, you know, neither do ourkids in that example.
But basic communication is witha horse is the same as it is
(24:52):
with human beings.
It's just so evident and easy tosee with horses because what
happens is when I communicatesomething to you, okay.
Let's just say I'm asking you todo something.
I'm asking you to do this, andyou're not doing it.
Why aren't you doing it?
And I'm just, I keep asking youand asking you, and I'm gonna
(25:15):
escalate how I'm asking you, andI'm gonna increase the pressure.
I'm gonna continue to increasethe pressure, and I'm doing
everything I can, and now I'mgonna force you to do this if
you're not careful.
What's happening is if you'renot understanding me, you know,
first of all, I'm alreadystarting to get frustrated
because I'm asking you, I'mdoing everything I can to
(25:35):
respectfully ask you to complyand to come my way, and you're
not doing anything, and it'sgetting pretty frustrating over
here, and you're on the otherend over there, your frustration
is going up just as much becauseyou're seeing that you're like,
you're doing this, and thenyou're why are you doing all
that?
You know, I'm over here tryingto figure this thing out and
nothing's working.
(25:56):
And so these things, I mean,with horses, this is when you
want to have 911 ready to dialon your phone.
Because what happens is asthings escalate in this
communication, in this lack ofcommunication, and the
frustration increases is where,you know, horses are either
going to run over you on a wayto get away or to lash out and
fight and hurt you.
(26:18):
I mean, in an extreme case.
But the basic idea is that I'mtalking about in communication,
it's just so frustrating whenwe're not intentional with
communication for both sides ofthe party.
And so we really have to look atfirst of all, are you
understanding me?
And if not, in the horse world,this is interesting.
There's an old school of thoughtthat says if you're in the
(26:38):
middle of it, you can't give up,or you know, you'll ruin
everything.
You have to win the battle ifyou created one.
That's the worst idea ever.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
I think that goes for kids too.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
For sure.
The time to stop is now regroup.
Take yourself out of thatposition and think it through,
then you can go back with adifferent communication that
hopefully it will be understood.
SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Yeah.
No, I think that's reallypowerful.
There's the, you know, thevisual of that.
Like if you're again withhorses, how many commands can
horses generally recognize?
Like words-wise, are therethings you're saying that
they're connecting with, or isit mostly body language and
touch, or you know, let's go alittle deeper there because I
feel like there's some gems.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
Yeah, there's how much can horses understand?
They can, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Verbal, verbally, like in your experience.
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
They can understand quite a bit if we condition them
to.
I only use a handful of sounds.
A kiss, a kick, a click, andwhoa, they understand that word,
and you know, walk on.
I only use a handful of verbalcues.
I would imagine that if youintended to, that they could
(27:53):
pick up on, understand a lot ofdifferent kinds of verbal
language, but I use thosespecifically.
I know with dogs that a lot oftimes they teach dogs different
languages so they don't getconfused in your, you know, what
you're trying to ask them to do.
And so I don't know.
I have kept over my scope ofthings that at a minimum, but
horses, they're picking up oneverything, you know.
(28:17):
So we condition them to certainverbal cues and then certain
body language that we're doing.
And then, like when we'reriding, they feel everything.
This is kind of interesting thata horse, let's just say an
average horse is 1,000 pounds.
Okay.
So that's a pretty big creature,a thousand pounds.
(28:39):
And from the tip of their noseto the back of their tailbone,
they can feel a little bittygnat or a little bitty fly
through their hair coat anywhereon their body.
Okay.
And so when you add a saddle anda rider, me, a human being up
(29:00):
there flopping around, let metell you, they feel everything.
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
Yeah.
Okay.
I feel like there was so much inthere that correlates because I
think that especially for thoseof us who may have kids who tend
toward more sensitive natures.
And I know we have quite a fewlisteners who would identify as
like parents of kids who arepretty sensitive.
I think what you said about thelooks you might have, your body
(29:27):
language and your words havingjust as much communication,
right, as those words, thoseother signals to kids are pretty
big.
And sometimes they come throughstronger, right, than what we
say.
So even if we're saying we'reokay or we're saying things are
okay or we're not upset, ifthey're reading the other parts
of us, if they're like readingthe energy that we're putting
(29:48):
out, if we're they're readingour, you know, facial cues or
our body language, they're gonnabe picking up what we're
throwing down, right?
Like whatever it is we'rebringing to the interaction,
they're gonna pick up on.
And I think that circles back toyour idea earlier of kind of
minding your energy, right?
Like minding your own bearingand how you're coming to a
situation.
(30:09):
And then I also think just theidea of having a few key phrases
or sounds that you use, not thatwe want to call to our kids like
we call for horses, maybe, but Iknow people, especially myself,
I can get pretty verbose,believe it or not, when it comes
to my kiddo.
And I'll tell a story or share aconcept in a lot of words that
(30:32):
sometimes start to get lostbecause we're kind of done
listening to the words, and youknow, whereas having like a few
key things that we can refer toor connect with that that speak
more, I think that that'spowerful.
And I know for me in ourmindfulness conversations,
that's one of the reasons I lovestories.
(30:54):
Listeners will recognize theidea of the thought river.
So if in a moment with my kiddo,I can say instead of giving a
big long spiel about how I don'tknow that that's a thought we
should pay attention to and it'snot really true.
And I wish you would thinkbetter about yourself, or I wish
you wouldn't be so hard onyourself, you know, I could go
off and say all those things, orI can say something like, is
(31:15):
that something you could letfloat down your thought river?
And it's a small reference, kindof like your, you know, the the
noises that you made or the thesmall ways you signal to the
horse, but it's a smallreference that carries a lot of
weight.
And so being able to have thosetools and strategies at our
disposal as parents is soimportant because we can convey
(31:36):
a whole lot with just a tinybit.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
I absolutely love that because that is super
powerful.
If I have a comment, I don'tthink that a lot of times my
complete analysis over you knowexactly over about a half hour
is just not gonna be helpful.
And so a friend of mine, hiswife used to say like if you ask
(31:59):
Mike what time it is, he'll tellyou how a watch works.
I mean, especially with kids,that's a great thought.
I love it.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
I think too, I like what you said about the horse's
sensitivity and maybe taking itin different vein.
Like as parents, parents who arelistening, caring an awful lot,
and you generally notice what'sgoing on with kids, right?
And all those tiny, like yousaid, the gnat or the fly or the
heavier burden of a personsitting on the horse.
(32:34):
I think as parents, too, beingpatient and having compassion
and just good self-care, becausewe are shouldering all those
things, right?
Like we are sensitive to thedifferent needs of our kids, the
different struggles of our kids,whether it's the tiny little
things or the more weightythings that they're navigating,
like recognizing the weight ofresponsibility that we carry for
(32:56):
them, it's important, right?
Like with for a horse, you'renot asking the horse to kind of
go longer than it can or carrythat burden farther than it's
able, or to do so without theproper nourishment or care or
equipment or whatever, right?
And in that way, I think too, asparents, we need to avail
ourselves of the support of thejust compassionate self-care
(33:20):
that's required in order tocarry the weight of child
rearing.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
I have a comment on that, and I couldn't agree with
you more because what I took outof that is that is one of really
what I would like to say to mostparents and to my younger self
is that it is a lot ofresponsibility and it is a lot
of weight.
And sometimes it can feel justtoo much, you know, it can just
(33:45):
feel overbearing.
And the parents that I talk to,they're doing the best that they
can.
The thing of it is, is it's likethe default language is I suck
as a parent because I did ordidn't do a certain thing.
And really that we care so muchthat we make one, the everything
that we do, we're hyper focusedin on and we're damaging
(34:08):
ourselves internally andemotionally because of the way
that we're thinking about it.
And sometimes we even think thatwe're doing a good thing.
In other words, well, I'm takingownership of it, and you know,
it's a good idea to think thatI'm an idiot for what I've been
doing because, you know, I don'twant to do it again, and I'm the
responsible one.
And I'm telling you, it's theopposite.
(34:30):
I want parents to know whatyou're talking about.
You're gonna make some mistakes,and it's okay because those
beliefs and those ideas andthose thoughts and those words
that you're thinking about themistakes that you're making,
they're coming out and you'reteaching your kids things that
you don't want to have happen.
It just like they come out, yourkids are picking it up whether
(34:51):
you know it or not, just likehorses do.
I want human beings and parentsespecially, just to more
intentionally take a look atthose thoughts that they're
having about themselves and thewords that they're using around
their kids and have it be okay.
I mean, you're gonna make somemistakes.
It's gonna be that way.
But that's the first thing Ihear when I talk to parents is
(35:12):
just all this self-belittlingand criticizing and condemning
and on and on.
SPEAKER_01 (35:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm really glad youpointed that out because I think
it's a really powerfulobservation that when we are
struggling, especially withsomething that feels as crucial
to us as our kids, right?
I mean, it's the job we careabout so much.
And when we are struggling, weare often looking for support,
but being so mean to ourselvesand not giving ourselves kind of
(35:41):
internal support that you'respeaking of.
One of my favorite mindfulnessexercises or meditations is the
loving-kindness meditation.
I don't know if you're familiarwith it, but the idea is that
you imagine yourself first andthen you imagine people around
you who just love you so muchand are just sending you love,
just sending it, and you imagineyourself like filling up with
(36:03):
it, and you just feel so caredfor and so loved that it's like
overflowing out of you.
And then from there, themeditation continues and you
send that love to someone thatyou love, someone that's neutral
to you, someone who you havesome sort of conflict or
disagreement with, and then tothe world.
But the idea is that you're sofull of love, you're so full of
(36:26):
goodness and like that just carefor yourself that it's
overflowing out of you.
And I think when we'restruggling, it is really tricky
to come by those types offeelings, right?
And we end up parenting from alack instead of an overflow of
love.
And it it sounds trite, butreally the way that we consider
ourselves and the way that wecare for ourselves is what
(36:47):
creates that circumstance,right?
Whether we feel full of thatkind of care or whether we feel
like we're lacking it and kindof scrounging for it.
And so I love what you saidbecause I think it speaks to the
realization that we do our bestas parents, even when we're
making mistakes, when we canfoster that kind of
self-compassion that's neededjust for ourselves, because then
(37:07):
it flows from us outward.
SPEAKER_00 (37:10):
Yep, that's exactly right.
I love that idea.
Super good.
Most of my work's with teenagersand parents, but just one
example.
I have a couple of parents thathave younger kids too.
And one lady was telling me astory recently about how she has
this newborn, and she set herdown on the bed and turned to
(37:31):
get some clothes out of thedresser, and she rolled over and
hit the ground.
And she was like traumatizedover this.
The mother, okay.
The baby was okay.
You know, luckily, baby notharmed, everything's okay.
But the mother was, it's a bigdeal.
I mean, she was making someserious meaning about this whole
thing.
And the thing of it is, is thisthe infant may or may not have
(37:54):
been old enough to really pickup.
She did pick up on her initialreaction and it made her cry
more.
But our kids are, it's nottrite.
I mean, these things meanthings.
Our thoughts and the languagethat we have about our thoughts
and our for sure our languagebecause our kids are picking up
on.
They are learning how to treatthemselves by the way that we
(38:15):
treat themselves from what theyhear.
A lot of times we parent lessbecause we isolate, we kind of
move away if we feel bad aboutourselves.
There's so many things that arehaving a direct impact.
I mean, it matters.
SPEAKER_01 (38:29):
Yeah.
I know thanks for sharing that.
I think one of the most poignantquotes that I've heard about
that is the way that you talk toyourself in a mistake is going
to be the way that your childtalks to themselves, you know,
next week or 20 years from nowin a mistake.
So you're using the languagewith yourself that you want them
(38:50):
to use for themselves.
Like that's the kind of trainingthat we're doing as parents.
We're modeling what a mistakemeans and how we should treat
ourselves after a mistake.
And so if we can have the kindof compassion and the grace that
we want them to have forthemselves, like we've got to
model it first so that theydidn't know what it looks like.
SPEAKER_00 (39:11):
For sure.
SPEAKER_01 (39:13):
Well, and then just to bring that full circle, what
do you see, like in terms ofhorses?
How do you correlate there?
In terms of a situation whereyou might feel shame or you
might feel like you've donesomething wrong, or there's like
an awareness.
Do you see that same kind ofrebound as with the forgiveness
that we talked about earlier,where they can just be present
in this new moment that they'rein after they've prepared?
SPEAKER_00 (39:38):
Two things on that.
And one is that you kind oftouched on a little bit, but
everything matters to startwith.
Just know everything matters.
When you come into it, dependson what size of like an
enclosure a horse is in.
If a horse is in a smallerenclosure, you can be a little
bit closer before they reallystart to hone in on you.
(39:59):
But if a horse is Turned outinto big pasture, they can be a
long ways away, like more than100 yards or plus, you know, and
they can start to really pick upon what you're putting down.
And so in a stall in a barn, andyou know, there's so much
activity and stuff like thatthat you would need to be
closer, like you'd need to bewithin 10 feet of their stall,
(40:19):
depending on whatever.
So when you come into proximitywith the horse, everything you
do makes a difference.
Everything.
And here's an example of this.
At our barn or any barn, thestall cleaner makes a
difference.
He goes in there and cleans thestall.
He picks up the manure andchecks the bedding and checks
(40:40):
the water and whatever he does.
The stall cleaner impacts thathorse's life.
It impacts how he's going toride, how he's going to interact
with the owner, with the groom,whoever comes to pick him up.
Everything matters, literally.
So just know that, just to startwith.
That's a concept I fully believein in his lifetime.
A lot of times I think like, oh,it's just this little thing or
(41:01):
that.
And we need to prioritizethings.
That's not what I'm saying, butI'm just saying that everything
really does, everything matters.
And then kind of like back whatyou said is that when, you know,
as far as shame horses justbeing able to be present and
really the miracle that theydon't hold on to things and
remember things is really themiracle.
(41:21):
And I don't know for sure whatgoes on inside their head, but I
know for sure that they don'tremember.
And I don't know that they canfully separate actions from the
value of a human being, which isone thing that I really talk a
lot about, of being able to dofor ourselves because that gives
us the capacity to do that forother people, for our kids, and
(41:42):
for all our human beings.
And then it starts right here.
But one thing for sure is again,I just think it's such a big
idea that really it starts withourselves.
This idea of forgiveness andfully letting it go.
If we can develop the capacity,and what it is possible to do,
trust me, because I've done somestuff.
(42:02):
Okay, we're not going to talkabout all of it right now.
Okay, but we all have, you know,to some degree that I'm ashamed
of.
So we all get to experience thisshame, right?
It's part of, again, human, ourlife experience.
These things really do defineus.
And if you don't think you'redefined, if you're not
intentional about it, it'shappening for you anyway.
And probably it's not turningout as good as it could if
(42:25):
you're not being intentionalabout it.
If we can really come to knowthat the things that we have
done go through the process,Bernane Brown has a great shame
and resilience, you know, stepsto go through.
If we can own it, if we canshare it with people that have
earned our trust, and then if wecan at some point separate it
from our value as who we areworth as a human being, and
(42:48):
fully let it go, feel it, andmove on without having residue,
I think is a worthy goal.
SPEAKER_01 (42:56):
Yeah.
That's so well put.
And I I love Brene Brown forthat reason.
I think, yeah, I I love what youshared in terms of the way we
connect with ourselves being thetemplate for which both our kids
learn to connect with themselvesand for the way that we create
the relationship with them.
(43:16):
And when you say care abouteverything, I think I can hear
some listeners having someanxiety about that and feeling
stressed.
But I think the key being therereally are just a few basics
that we can kind of build on,right?
This idea of self-compassion,this idea of our worth not
changing and our worth beingconstant no matter what.
(43:38):
If we can build there, then allthose minutes that do matter,
they're a little smoother,right?
Because what we've built insideof us creates a different kind
of approach.
And I think if we're so busylike listening to this person's
take or wanting to do the exactright thing in this situation,
or you know, like trying tofigure out the words in this
(43:59):
situation.
And if we are just trying toscramble and kind of tie
together those things in each ofthose moments, it's really
challenging.
But when we can take thatmindful and intentional approach
with the self-compassion andwith that strong tether to our
worth, those moments are, I'mnot gonna say they're easy, but
there's an ease to the momentwhen that's the basis from which
(44:23):
you're approaching it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
Yeah.
Great, that's awesome.
I agree with you.
That may have came out like, ohman, I have more things to worry
about because my point ofeverything mattering, but really
at the core, horses are superresilient, and our kids are
actually more resilient than wethink.
And I think really what matters,when I say everything matters,
we're gonna make mistakes, andthat's gonna matter.
(44:46):
What matters most is what wemodel of how we handle those
mistakes.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:52):
Yeah, I think it's a good point.
And I think that again, thisidea of being able to sit with
whatever comes up for us,whatever we're feeling, whatever
our kiddo is feeling, those arethe things that matter.
And when we do from thatfoundation, we cannot expect
perfection from ourselves, butdive into that idea of
resilience that you shared andbuild that sense of resilience
within ourselves and our kidsone moment at a time.
unknown (45:14):
For sure.
SPEAKER_01 (45:15):
Well, Shane, thank you so much for your time today.
This has been such a funconversation.
Talk to our listeners aboutwhere they can learn more about
you and your work.
SPEAKER_00 (45:23):
Oh, thanks so much.
Everything we do do is at StableLiving Coaching.com.
I have a free weekly video thatyou can sign up for if you're
inclined.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (45:34):
Yeah, thanks again.
Thanks for listening to theStress Nanny.
If you found today's episodehelpful, be sure to share it
with a friend who could use alittle extra calm in their week.
And if you have a minute, I'dlove for you to leave a review.
It helps other parents find theshow and join us on this
journey.
For more tools and support, headover to www.thestressnanny.com.
(45:56):
Remember, you don't have to dostress alone.
Together we can raise kids whoknow how to navigate life with
confidence and ease.
Until next time, take a deepbreath and give yourself some
grace.
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