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September 27, 2025 35 mins

Has something in this episode resonated with you? Get in touch!

Novel study has gained traction in teaching circles, but important questions arise about its suitability for all students, time management challenges, and whether it's truly evidence-based for primary schools.

In this episode, Jocelyn explores

• Research comparing novels with shorter stories
•  Teachers challenges in novel studies including time constraints, student stamina issues, and resource limitations
• Quality of text and instruction matters more than text length
• The role of using professional judgment about instruction based on student needs 

This episode invites you to give yourself permission to make thoughtful decisions based on your students' needs, instructional goals, available time, and what research indicates are the most impactful factors for reading instruction.


Are your students good readers, but poor spellers? If so, you are not alone. Spelling Success in Action addresses phonics, orthography, and morphology to give students a well-rounded understanding of how our language system works. 

Find out how you can help your students move beyond guessing and memorisation at https://www.jocelynseamereducation.com/spelling2



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#jocelynseamereducation #literacy #bestpractice #earlyprimaryyears #primaryschool #primaryschools #primaryschoolteacher #earlyyearseducation #earlyyearseducator #structuredliteracy #scienceofreading #classroom #learning #learningisfun #studentsuccess #studentsupport #teacherlife #theresourceroom #theevergreenteacher #upperprimary #upperprimaryteacher #thestructuredliteracypodcast #phoneme #grapheme #phonics #syntheticphonics

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Episode Transcript

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Jocelyn (00:00):
Hello, hello, welcome to this episode of the
Structured Literacy Podcast.
I'm Jocelyn Seamer, coming toyou from Tasmania, the land of
the Palawa people.
Today we're diving into a topicthat's gained traction over the

last couple of years (00:13):
novel study.
In just about every teachingFacebook group, people are
talking about novel study andhow to make it work with their
students.
So this episode is devoted tonovel study, where I'm
addressing a few differentquestions.
Where did it come from?
Is it suitable for everyone?
How do you fit it into yourtimetable, and is it actually

(00:37):
evidence-based for the primaryschool?
Has novel study become one ofthe things that is popular and
viewed as best practice withouta strong evidence base?
With this particular practice,have we fallen into the same
trap as we did in the balancedliteracy days?
Something looks good and soundsgood, so we adopt it, but we

(01:00):
didn't recognise that it didn'thave a strong evidence base.
By the end of this episode, youwill know the answer to that
question.
Before we begin, I need toacknowledge that this episode is
longer than our usual episodes,because it needs to be.
This issue is a complex one,and for teachers and schools it

(01:22):
can feel really high stakes.
My purpose in sharing here isnot to tell anyone what to do,
but to give you sufficientinformation so that you and your

team can answer the question: Are we making our decisions (01:32):
undefined
based on what research says andwhat we know is best for our
students, or are we following atrend, not really understanding
it?
It's not my place to tell youwhat to do.
I see my role as that of apartner to walk alongside

(01:54):
leaders and teachers and helpmake decision-making about
instruction easier.
In order to do that, I have togive a topic appropriate
consideration and give you asmuch information as I can
without making it alloverwhelming.
So stick with this episode.
Think about what resonates withyou and what makes sense.

(02:15):
Also notice what surprises you.
After all, it's in discoveringthat something is not exactly as
we thought that we learn.
So let's dive in.
I'm going to start by sayingthat novel study can be a
valuable item in our teachingkit bags, and then you might

(02:35):
think well, what's the point ofthis episode?
Stay with me, there's a lotmore to that.
Now I've taught with novelssuccessfully in my own classroom
, with great outcomes, and Iknow that many of you are as
well.
If you're expecting thisepisode to be anti-novel study,
I'm sorry to disappoint.
But if we take a step back andlook at the nuance of this

(02:57):
issue, and also look at hownovel study has evolved, it
seems to me from my reading thatnovel study as a source of
instruction seems to berelatively recent in the way
that we think about it.
Now, in In decades gone by,literacy blocks were divided
into separate reading andwriting hours, and this is still

(03:20):
the case in many schools.
Time allocated to readingfocused on comprehension,
centred centered on leveled textand comprehension strategies,
and may have involved literaturecircles where students assumed
roles to discuss text and shareresponses.
And while this seemed engaging,this highly student-driven

(03:42):
approach contradicted what wenow know from cognitive science:
science that novices learn bestthrough fully guided instruction
.
We're now aware that levelledleveled text guided reading had
the problem of not presentingchallenging and rich enough
texts that engage students withreal literature.
There just wasn't enough heavylifting for the students to do

(04:02):
the learning.
Literature circles, however,kind of did the complete
opposite.
This structure handballed theactual reading of the text to
the students, often for homework, and then had them come in and
have a student-centredstudent-centered discussion that
they drove.
Now this handballing thereading for homework seems to me

(04:25):
to be the only way that youcould have fit it all in,
because if you had to read thetext in the classroom as well as
having all that discussion, youjust wouldn't be able to make
things happen .
In preparing for this podcast,I've thought quite a bit about
the way I manage novel study inmy own classroom.
Yes, I chose a novel based on avariety of factors.

(04:47):
However, we didn't do deepreading of the entire text.
I used only selected passagesfor close reading, while other
sections of the book were readas class read-alouds,
particularly the less impactfulones.
Trying to close read every partof a novel can see us spending
really precious time examininglulls and transition points,

(05:10):
time that could be better spentused for deeper comprehension or
writing work.
Looking back, I can also seethat I wasn't addressing both
reading and writing .
while While using the novels,the work was focused squarely on
comprehension, and I have tosay that deep reading with
active engagement of the text,where students were asked to

(05:34):
interact directly with a text,did lead to better comprehension
outcomes on normed assessment,which I was very pleased with
However, when I moved to usingrich text as the stimulus for
both , comprehension and writing, I switched to shorter text,
chosen for their suitability toalign with the curriculum

(05:55):
outcomes we were working towards.
At the time I had no evidencebase to reflect on.
I did it because it felt rightand I could see the outcomes in
real time with my students.
I now know that so much of whatI was doing was actually
reflected in research.
In fact, there's a whole bookabout research for connecting

(06:20):
reading and writing, and that'swhat it's called, called Writing
and Reading ConnectionsBridging Research and Practice.
This is an edited book withchapters written by people that
you might recognise recognize,like Timothy Shanahan, Steve
Graham, Margaret McCowan.
Knowing that we base ourtext-based units in the Resource
resource Room room on theresearch findings of respected

(06:42):
and experienced researchers andpractitioners means that our
members can teach withconfidence and we can have
confidence that what we'reproviding is going to help get
good outcomes.
At the moment, many teachersare using novel study as the
primary focus of theirtext-based unit work.

(07:02):
These units are coming from avariety of sources, including
teachers writing their own.
Some teachers are havingsuccess with this approach, but
others are struggling with veryreal challenges.
Now I hear from teachers whoare almost at their wits end
because they're trying to teachwith novels in Year year Three
three to Six six and it's notworking.

(07:24):
They feel like they are failingtheir students because it's all
too much and it's all too hard,and I don't want anyone to feel
like they're failing theirstudents.
Some of the challenges teachersare facing with this approach

are (07:40):
are time constraints is the major one.
Teachers often find they don'thave enough time to get through
everything they'd hoped for,particularly when trying to
connect reading and writing.
So while the class may getthrough a text, it's often done
at a pace that results in verysurface level recall rather than

(08:01):
the deep understanding we'reaiming for.
Next is the issue of studentstamina.
We know that we have a widevariety of students in our
classes and we know that thecontext of schools changes from
one school to another, sothere's no one-size-fits-all
approach to managing studentstamina.
But teachers are telling methat students are running out of

(08:25):
steam and focus before the endof the book, making it feel as
if they're dragging them throughthe second half of a novel.
There are also resourcelimitations to be considered.
Not having enough copies of abook means teachers are often
trying to teach novel studythrough read aloud only, and the
challenge here is that studentsdon't actually have eyes on the

(08:47):
text, which limits theirability to engage directly with
the language and structure thatthey need to be working with.
Finally, there's the question ofstruggling learners.
Cohorts of students who arelower in literacy ability can
find novel study particularlychallenging, especially when

(09:08):
they don't have the readingstamina or foundational skills
to sustain engagement over weeks.
Now I want to be really clearhere.
We don't deny age-appropriatetext to students just because
they have reading and writingchallenges.
Everyone can think about a textand talk about a text, and in
this day and age of technologythere are adjustments, such as

(09:30):
audiobooks with text-to-speechsoftware.
However, asking students whostruggle and who have to process
most of the learning that youwant to happen through working
memory is a recipe for overwhelmand disengagement.
In some schools, more than halfof the students in a class are

(09:50):
still learning to decode withthe complex code.
We must consider cognitive loadin making decisions for
instruction and feel good aboutdoing that.
So I'd like to ask the questionnow: why the push for novels?
Why are teachers trying so hardto use only novels in their

(10:12):
classrooms?
Part of this comes from theidea that novels are somehow a
superior form of text, an ideathat I haven't quite been able
to pin down to an exact date ofintroduction in our schools, but
I suspect from the reading I'vedone that there's some
coinciding with the introductionof whole language.

(10:33):
What I've been able to findthrough looking at archives is
that all through the 19th andfirst part of the 20th century,
standard readers were used toengage students with rich text,
so rich text has always been afocus.
These books weren't completenovels but were anthologies of a

(10:54):
range of texts.
In the United States there wereMcGuffey Readers.
Here in Australia we had RoyalReaders and then Victorian
Readers, and you can find thePDFs of these texts online, I
can't share the text with youbecause I don't have the
copyright for them, but if youGoogle Royal Readers PDF and

(11:14):
Victorian Readers PDF, you'llfind them.
I'd like to read to you now fromRoyal Reader number four, which
I presume was for use in yearfour.
As great variety as possible hasbeen given to the contents of
the present volume.
Young people cannot be expectedto dwell long on one subject,
or even on one class of subjects.

(11:37):
In the case of the mind, as ofthe body, judicious change is
one of the best means of keepingup its vigor, and I love that.
Judicious change is one of thebest means of keeping up its
vigor.
So if we want to focus studentattention and keep it focused,
changing it up is one of theways we can do that.

(11:57):
So the reasoning for using alarge range of shorter texts was
related to student attentionand engagement, principles that
align remarkably well with whatwe know about cognitive load
theory and attention.
Now these texts fell out of usein the 1960s and 70s, partly, it

(12:17):
seems, because they didn'tprovide enough diversity in the
reading materials.
Pretty much once the WhiteAustralia policy ended,
Australia became a much moreculturally diverse country and
reading material needed toreflect that.
These specific texts might havedisappeared, but not the idea
of anthologies of a variety oftexts.

(12:39):
Now I was a primary student inthe 1980s in New South Wales and
we had the school magazine thatwas delivered regularly and had
different names for differentgrades for the text from Three
to Six.
It seems that Victoria had asimilar resource produced.
Now you might still have someof these texts in your school.

(13:01):
If you do, don't throw themout, see if you can use them.
And the New South Wales schoolmagazine is still a thing,
although digitisation andsoftware have replaced the old
hard copies.
Now I haven't been able to pindown a specific point when
novels entered the picture inprimary school, but from my
reading and some inference itseems that novels were

(13:22):
introduced somewhere in the1980s and 90s because they were
seen to represent a morecomplete, rich text.
But I don't remember using anovel for reading instruction in
primary school.
I do recall having them read tous, which I think is a great
thing, and we have a podcastepisode on the read aloud.

(13:42):
The point of this episode isn'tto critique approaches of the
past, but to show that texttypes have varied over time,
based on pedagogical andphilosophical ideas, and that
collections of short texts forstudents to engage with in
primary school have existed andbeen used successfully for over
a century.

(14:04):
Now this trip down memory lanehas been fun, but let's turn to
research to help us understandmore about optimal text length,
which is the issue at hand inthis episode.
So what does research have tosay about this?
Should we be using longernovels or shorter texts?
Who's right on this issue?
Here's where things getinteresting and where I need to

(14:26):
be completely honest with you.
When I went searching forstudies that validated the use
of novels as the primary sourceof instruction over short
stories, I came up empty-handed.
I could not find any researchthat directly compared text
length in terms of outcomes ineither primary or secondary

(14:48):
classrooms.
In the research that I reviewedthere was a statement:
statement there is no directexperimental study in Years
years Two two to Six six thatisolates text length by
comparing full-length novels toshort stories while holding
instruction constant.
Now I don't mind telling you Iwas a little bit surprised by

(15:08):
this.
After all, I have seen so muchmessaging around the use of rich
novels for instruction, I hadassumed that there was a strong
research base behind it, but itdoesn't seem that there is.
So if there isn't researchindicating that novels yield
better outcomes for studentscompared with shorter texts

(15:30):
short stories, particularly inthe primary school, school well
Well, what does the research say?
And here's what I found in my .
readingStudies using shorter texts in
primary grades have shownpositive effects on
comprehension .
So Bauman and Bergeron foundwith Grade grade One one
students that using shorter textwith story , instruction with

(15:53):
children's , showed significantcomprehension gains.
Fitzgerald and Spiegel foundstrong positive effects on
comprehension when Grade gradeFour four students received
explicit instruction innarrative structure using short
stories.
So we've got research thereusing short .

(16:13):
.
Additionally, the influentialstudy by Beck, Beck McCowan,
Sandora and Kukin compared twoapproaches to comprehension
instruction Year with Five fivestudents that ran for two years
.
Their research found thatstudents who experienced what
they called a content modelcharacterised characterized by
close reading with strategically, teacher-facilitated
discussion during text readinghad higher levels of independent

(16:36):
recall than those whoexperienced just strategy
instruction.
Importantly, this studyincluded teachers teaching
social studies who were usingpassages with defined stopping
and starting points.
It's also important to rememberthat the focus of this study
wasn't text length, it was anapproach to comprehension

(17:02):
instruction.
So we can't say that shortertexts are better because we just
don't have the research showingthat.
We can say that there isresearch showing that we can get
great comprehension outcomeswith shorter, complete texts.
As O'Kill, Kane and Elbrowemphasise in their really
fantastic comprehension handbook, we need deeper understanding

(17:22):
rather than surface-levelcoverage.
So it would appear that themost important factor is deeper
engagement with a good textrather than having the text
that's of the perfect length.
So let's now look specificallyat what research has shown about
novels and, of course, I can'tshare every study known to man

(17:44):
with you.
I'm choosing ones that mostclosely address the questions I
was asking.
In reviewing available research, it's important to know that
most research on reading withnovels has focused on secondary
students.
It's also important to knowthat comprehension was the
primary focus and there wasn't alook at how we use a novel to

(18:09):
integrate reading and writinginstruction.
So why that's important is thatif we're trying to integrate
reading and writing, we have toremember that the studies, like
the one I'm about to share withyou, focused only on
comprehension in the timeallowed.
A 2019 study by Sullivan andcolleagues, Jane Oakhill being

(18:30):
one of them, focused onsecondary students and used
either a fast read of novels ora fast read and other
comprehension focused structures.
Now, a fast read was defined asreading two whole novels over a
12-week term.

(18:53):
I'm going to read directly fromthe peer-reviewed article about
the study now so that we knowwhat we're talking about.
What was the instruction thathappened?

It included (18:59):
work on reading strategies, predicting
clarifying questioning,summarising and text connections
, comprehension monitoring andinference, applying knowledge of
self, world and text in guidedreading groups and whole class,
modelling and think alouds.
Additionally, guidelinesrequired establishing regular

(19:23):
dialogic talk, class and groupwithin ground rules, teaching
story structure with graphicorganisers, strategy for
vocabulary development andreading entire texts, combining
teacher read aloud in class withstudents reading aloud in
groups for fluency andengagement, enabling students to

(19:44):
form situation models of thetext.
So that's quite a broad rangeof structures being used.
This was done in about two anda half hours per week, so done
in shorter chunks across a week.
The text read were on average200 pages long and were

(20:06):
considered robust andsubstantial for the Year Eight
students participating in thestudy.
So keep that in mind, thatthese were secondary students,
they weren't Year Three and Four.
The results of the study showedthat this style of instruction
was effective, particularly forstudents who struggled, and
that's great news.

(20:26):
The insistence on whole textbeing read rather than excerpts
is mirrored in other researchthat I came across.
The focus on dialogic talk andengagement also mirrors what
other research has shown,including the Beck, McKeown
McCowan, Kucan, and Sandorastudy.
So what we have is two terrificstudies: studies one One focused

(20:50):
on short texts, the otherfocused on novels, where the
critical factor in instructionwas the quality of the text,
high quality discussion andthinking, vocabulary building
and other structures.
The text length was not thequestion here.
So what are we supposed to dowith this information?

(21:11):
How does knowing about thishelp us make decisions in our
schools ?
Timothy Shanahan, in his blogpost about teaching with novels,
puts it really nicely.
He describes being a two-handedreading specialist on this
issue.
On one hand, novels could helpstudents develop reading stamina
and provide sustainedengagement with character and

(21:33):
plot development.
On the other hand, shorterworks allow for much broader
exposure to different authors,literary devices and writing
styles within the same timeframe.
As Shanahan notes,"let's let'sbe honest, there are only so
many novels that kids can read.
Short stories magnify thepossibilities here".

(21:54):
So he suggests that, whilenovels have their place, we
should balance them against amore aggressive and intentional
use of excerpts and shorterworks, and to me this makes
perfect sense.
I'd like to finish this episodewith practical considerations
that keep us in the realm ofevidence-based, while responding

(22:16):
to the reality of schools andthe constraints of the average
classroom.
So my key considerations formaking decisions on this matter

are (22:24):
always aim for a rich text that has depth of theme,
language or structure,regardless of the length.
Quality texts will also yieldbetter outcomes, whether they
are long or short.
In the Resource Room, we leaninto texts that are in the
public domain and written bygreat authors like Louisa May

(22:46):
Olcott, who wrote Little Women,and L Frank Baum, who wrote the
Wizard of Oz.
Texts that aren't rich invocabulary, theme and sentence
structure simply won't providethe stretch needed to develop as
strong readers.
There's just not enough heavylifting in them for the students
to have desirable difficulty.

(23:07):
Your knowledge of your studentsis critical in this decision
making.
Text selection isn't about whatsomeone else said or about what
our favourite favorite books .
as As the teacher, the decisionis about presenting text that
creates desirable difficulty,not overwhelming learning
environments for our kids.

(23:27):
Attention spans and currentcapabilities matter.
In my opinion, it's better touse a short text that's
beautiful and rich and have fullengagement with it than drag
students through a novel if theydon't have the stamina or your
timetable doesn't allow the timefor you to slow down and go

(23:48):
deep.
This isn't dumbing downexpectations,.
it's It's responding to reality.
We need to prioritise physicalaccessibility of the text, so I
would encourage you to have apreference for text where you
have enough copies for eachstudent to interact directly
with.
This enables everyone to readwith whatever support is

(24:11):
necessary for them.
I also, as a teacher, prefertext that students can annotate,
circle, underline and highlightto focus attention.
One text displayed on a screenfor everyone isn't going to get
you the same focus as everyonehaving something in front of
them.
This is another reason that weopt for texts that are in the

(24:35):
public domain or we writeoriginal texts.
You can print as many copies asyou like and give one to every
child.
You will also have a PDF thatcan be used in a text-to-speech
reader.
There isn't a one-size-fits-allrule here, but if we want
students to read more texts,they actually have to be reading

(24:55):
more texts, not just listeningor watching.
And the other thing here, if wewant students reading more
texts, then the rest of ourcurriculum has to do more heavy
lifting for the reading.
Bring text in to every subjectarea, with perhaps the exception
of PE, but you know what, youcould still bring a small text

(25:17):
in, instruction about how toplay soccer.
We also have to considercognitive load.
We need to carefully manage howmany new elements we include in
instruction and ensure thatstudents have time for
sufficient practice andrehearsal.
A shorter text may allow fordeeper, more thorough

(25:38):
instruction that builds the kindof robust comprehension we're
aiming for.
Students need to have theopportunity for repetition, for
practice, for processing.
Shorter, complete texts alsoallow for us to fully integrate
writing instruction within thetext-based unit in a way that

(26:01):
doesn't leave teachers feelinganxious about fitting it all in
and doesn't leave us draggingthe students by a rope through
the planning.
When we integrate writing, weneed a lot more time and
practice than we do if we'rejust focusing on reading, so
that needs to be considered inthe decisions that we make.
Finally, I would encourageeveryone to embrace variety .

(26:26):
Using a range of texts allowsfor broader content coverage and
maintains student interest andengagement.
It also means that you canstrategically choose when you'll
use longer texts across theyear.
In terms two and four, when youknow that you need assessment
completed for reporting, youmight opt for a full unit on a

(26:48):
shorter text.
In term three, though, when youknow your students, students
and you know that there's noreporting, that might be the
optimum time for you to leaninto a really weighty novel,
because you know that you havethe time and the space to do it
.
,As as I have done in my own
classroom, classroom and asindicated in the research I've

(27:10):
shared,.
you You can always choose to usepart of a novel for deep
reading and then use the rest asa read aloud text.
That's exactly what a team Iwas coaching did when writing
their own novel study .
We planned the rigorous part ofthe unit to take them to the
point in a book where studentswill then complete a summative

(27:31):
assessment.
And it wasn't an easyassessment,.
it It was robust and requiredheavy thinking, but they didn't
have to read the whole text toget there.
They then read the remainder ofthe text to the students in the
afternoons and this workedbeautifully,.
the The students were able toenjoy the texts.
The teachers were able to givethe students the rich learning

(27:53):
experience.
It was a real win-win.
Now, this approach honourshonors both the benefits of
sustained text reading and thereality of instructional time
constraints and studentcapabilities.
I haven't recorded this episodeto say that novel studies are
bad and we shouldn't be usingnovels for instruction.
Rather, I want to suggest thatwe broaden the scope of texts to

(28:22):
bring variety of content forthe sake of stamina, interest
and alignment with the realityof time constraints.
Also, we all know that we havea really crowded curriculum, and
so, if we are expecting to meetall of the curriculum outcomes,
more texts could be a good wayto go.
I also really want to reassureteachers who are struggling to

(28:44):
get through novel units thatthere isn't something wrong with
you.
You're not a bad teacher.
You aren't going againstresearch if you choose to mix
things up.
It isn't that novel study isthe superior form of instruction
.
It's that it is one form ofinstruction.

(29:05):
There isn't research sayingthat the most impactful way to
teach comprehension withliterature is with novels, and
please remember that mostresearch that includes novels
has been done with students inthe secondary school, not the
primary school.
So while we can keep an eye onwhat that research showed, we

(29:27):
also have to remember that ourcontext matters.
In the absence of specificresearch telling us what the
optimum text length is, we needto turn to what we do have: have
evidence Evidence showing thatshorter text can be used very
effectively for comprehensiondevelopment, that cognitive load
is real and that tailoringinstruction to the needs of the

(29:49):
students in front of us isn'tshortchanging them.
It's ensuring that everyinstructional minute is rich and
engaging.
After all, what's the point ofspending weeks trying to
convince students they shouldpay attention and be excited
about a text that they lostinterest in two weeks into the ?

(30:09):
.
I know that what I'm sayingtoday might be challenging for
some teachers who formed avision of robust, evidence-based
practice around novel study,but at the end of the day, our
professional judgement aboutinstruction based on what we're
seeing in our students will takeus a long way.
Common sense is usually a goodpart of the answer to the

(30:32):
questions we're asking.
Remember, evidence-informedinstruction sits at the
intersection of what researchhas to share with us about a
topic, what our professionaljudgement, based on expertise
and a history of strong outcomes, says works and, most
importantly, on the impact onour students.

(30:55):
When we have those three thingsin alignment, then we know that
we're probably on the righttrack.
Do students need to be readingmore texts?
Yes.
Do we need to ensure thatthere's sufficient depth to
those texts?
Yes.
Should we promote engagementwith high quality texts that
create desirable difficulty?

(31:16):
Of course.
Is there only one way to makethis happen?
No.
The goal isn't to find oneperfect text length, but to make
thoughtful decisions based onour students' needs, our
instructional goals, the time wehave available and what the
research indicates are the mostimpactful factors.
Let's give ourselves and ourstudents a little bit of a break

(31:40):
and reflect on what theresearch does and does not say
about what robust readinginstruction looks like.
If novels are perfect for yourstudents, you're able to use
them, the units are rollingalong, you're not feeling
strapped for time, your studentsaren't overwhelmed, you can see
the outcomes, you can measurethe outputs.

(32:00):
Fantastic, keep doing whatyou're doing.
But if you've had a nigglingfeeling that novel study might
not be the whole picture, thenplease know that you're right.
There is more to be considered.
Now we'll link to TimothyShanahan's blog post in the
transcript of this episode onour site so you can have a read
for yourself what he has to say.

(32:21):
Ultimately, it's not the lengthof the text that's the defining
factor in student outcomes.
It's the quality of the textand the quality of the
instruction that matters most.
Thank you so much for stickingwith me until the end of this
episode.
I want you to not press stopnow.

(32:42):
Keep listening until after Ifinish speaking, because there's
quite a fun little song thatyou might enjoy after listening
to this episode.
Until next time, happy teachingeveryone.
Bye.
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