December 13, 2024 • 73 mins

In Episode 80 of the Student Pilot Cast we reunite with Nick Smith from Part Time Pilot to discuss the latest developments in his online ground school platform. We explore the addition of new features, such as an IFR ground school and a mobile app, and delve into the challenges of aviation training. Host Bill shares his journey to becoming a Certificated Flight Instructor (CFI), offering insights and updates along the way. Tune in for a deep dive into the world of aviation education and learn how Part Time Pilot is making flight training more accessible and efficient.

See the video version of this episode here: https://youtu.be/97O5VzO1kZc

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Hope you enjoy the episode and thanks for listening! Visit the SPC website at https://studentpilotcast.com. Please keep the feedback coming. You can use the contact form on the website or send email to bill at student pilot cast dot com. The theme song for our episodes is "To Be an Angel" by the band, "Uncle Seth".

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bill Williams's video recording: Welcome back to the student pilot cast. (00:00):
undefined
Thanks for being here as usual today.
We're going to get back togetherwith Nick Smith from part time pilot,
an online ground school platformthat we first talked about over
two years ago, back in episode 64.
So let's get going on episode 80 of thestudent pilot cast back to part time.

(00:49):
So like I mentioned before, we spoke toNick back in episode 64 about his ground
school, but a lot has changed since then.
He's added both features as wellas programs to his school, so let's
get to the interview pretty quickly.
Before we started, though, I want tomention that we recorded this a couple
of months ago when this is released.
Since then, I've completed my CFI.

(01:12):
I finally got to do my check rightin mid November, but when we spoke,
I was still waiting for a date froma DPE to get to get it scheduled.
So we'll talk a bit about that.
As usual, please reach out to meif you have any questions or any
suggestions or any feedback of any kind.
You can find me via email atbill at student pilotcast.

(01:33):
com or on X using my, the handle orname there at bill will that's Bravo,
India, Lima, Lima, whiskey, India, Lima.
I guess I should also mentionour very unused Instagram account
too, which is student pilotcast.
So that's pretty easy to find.

(01:53):
I guess I should start putting content outthere, I guess, on Instagram, but I just
haven't done anything really there yet.
You can also use the contactform to get ahold of me.
It's on the website.
Uh, you can get intouch with me like that.
Any way you do it though, just do it.
While I do get behind sometimes, itmight take me a while to reach back out.
I do love hearing from you andI will almost always respond.

(02:17):
So I guess we can drop into theconversation that Nick and I had.
So here you go.

Bill (02:28):
all right.
Welcome back to another episodeof the student pilot cast.
We're so happy to be reprisingour episode that we did with
Nick Smith over two years ago.
Nick, can you believe it's been that long?

Nick Smith (02:42):
uh, no, that's crazy.

Bill (02:45):
So Nick Smith runs an operation called part time pilot and, uh, we
actually did, uh, here I am in themiddle of our discussion and I forgot
to look up what episode number that was.

Nick Smith (03:03):
I was trying to look for it as well, just before we started.

Bill (03:08):
All right,

Nick Smith (03:09):
Oh, 64

Bill (03:12):
and we

Nick Smith (03:12):
Yeah.

Bill (03:13):
video episode on there, but I've changed the way
we're doing that a little bit.
So yeah, so it's episode 64 of thestudent pilot cast was when we talked
about part time pilot for the first time.
So Nick, it's been over two years.
new?
What's new with part time pilot?
Gives

Nick Smith (03:31):
Yeah.
Thanks for having me on again.
a lot is new.
Um, in two years.
I can't like, so we have, the big thingis we have an IFR on my ground school now.
Um, that was one of thethings that I think probably.
I think I talked to you about startingto create it at the time we talked last.

(03:51):
Um, so that's up and going now.
Um, we, uh, we have a mobile app now.
Um, so that's been really fun tobuild and we have a great, um, app
builder who's doing that for us and.
It's really cool.
It's got, you know, a six B tool,like a practice test generator

(04:14):
where you can pick, uh, you know,the categories you want to do
practice tests and that's all free.
But then students of our ground schoolthat log into that get extra features.
Uh, so they'll be able to.
Go through the ground school lessons,listen to our audio lessons, watch
the videos, take the quizzes,and then they'll also be able to

(04:34):
download a lot of our bonuses.
So that's really cool.
We're still working on,uh, updates right now.
Like, uh, it doesn't syncprogress with our online.
So that's a big update we're working on.
So it's a work in progress, but it's beenreally fun to get into the, the app world.
Um, Yeah.

Bill (04:52):
to some of that training on the go, I guess a little
bit easier for them to access.
Is that kind of what idea is.

Nick Smith (05:00):
So I held back from a lot of people ask if we had an app and like
they wanted an app and our, our courseis already 100 percent mobile friendly.
You just, you know, youjust need the internet.
So that's why I held back.
I was like, I'm not really surewhat the app, uh, would do.
But then I started speaking to an appdeveloper and they were saying, well,
there is, there is possibility that wecould, you know, um, have it all stored,

(05:25):
you know, Right when they download theapp, it kind of stores all the information
and then eventually, and again, this isanother feature we're working towards,
but students could use it offline as well.
And then, so when they get backonline, any progress that they had made
offline would kind of re sync, uh, withtheir course online and everything.
So that's kind of what we'reworking towards, and that to me

(05:46):
is the big bonus of having an app,right, is having that ability.
Let's say you're on anairplane or whatever,
and the Wi Fi.
Doesn't work, right?
Yeah.
Well, like a commercial planeand, uh, and, uh, so you could
do, you know, you could pullthat up and get some studying in.
So yeah, basically, like you said, onthe go, and then the offline thing is big

(06:09):
because believe it or not, we have a lotof students that like, I'm, I'm surprised
at how many students we have that they're,they're not always in an area, you know,
I live in a city, but they're not alwaysin an area with internet connection.
Um, so yeah,

Bill (06:24):
Interesting.

Nick Smith (06:26):
yeah.

Bill (06:26):
think I
also noticed that you guysadded a checkride prep.
I don't think you have that two years ago.

Nick Smith (06:33):
Oh, really?
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's hard to remember, but yeah,we have a check write prep course.
We've added a lot to that.
I've kind of built, you know, it's reallyabout kind of exactly what to expect.
So it's like in the same.
Step by step.
Like, you know, you meet with your DP,you're going to give them their money
because they want their money first.
Right.

(06:54):
And then they check your logbook and your IACRA and then
you go over the plane stuff.
So it's like all that step bystep to really just get you
feeling confident and comfortableabout what you're going to see.
And then we've, since then we've built,um, we've put in like throughout, we
review everything in that same sequence.
So, but then we throw in like.

(07:15):
In like green text that kind ofstands out in the course, these
like situational based questions,oral questions that you might get.
And then the answer thatwe think you should give.
Um, so we have over like 300 of thosethrown and those are, those are kind
of the money things that people really,really want for a check write prep is to
know what they're going to be asked onthe oral and kind of how to, how to figure

(07:36):
out what they might be asked, you know,uh, based off their scenario or whatever.
So, yeah.
Yeah,

Bill (07:41):
So that's kind of the stuff that's new, um, for those listeners
who haven't had a chance to golisten to that other episode.
How about Nick, you give usa synopsis on what's new?
What part time pilot is and youknow where you're headed with it

Nick Smith (07:59):
yeah, um, absolutely.
So part time pilot started after Iwent through my private pilot training.
And so I have a background inaerospace engineering, and then
I was a flight test engineer.
So I was all around airplanes.
And so the knowledge was there andI wanted to get my pilot's license.
And when I was going, I was actuallykind of a natural, and I'm not trying

(08:22):
to brag, but like, I got throughmy flight license pretty quickly.
Relatively quickly at the beginning.
Um, and then I decided to move fromSeattle to San Diego and then take a
couple months off and then I was payingpaycheck to paycheck and then I went
to kind of a, I went from a, I didn'treally understand part 61, part one 41.

(08:44):
So I switched to part one 41school, then had all these extra
requirements I didn't understand.
I essentially made a bunch of mistakesfrom my lack of understanding of
how the flight training world.
worked.
Um, and it got really, really frustrating.
And I spent, you know, like Six,seven, 8, 000 more dollars than I
really should have if I just hadplanned ahead and known these things.

(09:06):
So I started like an Instagram basedoff trying to educate people about
the way the flight training works.
And then, um, and thenstarted looking into.
More what it would take to be ableto have an online ground school.
And so I, I became a ground instructor.
Um, first I do was just basic for, youknow, private sport and recreational.

(09:28):
And then now, uh, you know, abouta year ago, I got my IFR rating
for ground instructor, so for ourIFR course, and then started just
building the, uh, the ground school.
So that's kind of how it started,you know, out of that, uh, wanting
to educate people and kind ofsave some people some money.
Cause I thought if it's that hard forsomeone who has the, you know, the, the.

(09:49):
Just who's always around planesand has the, the academic knowledge
behind it and all that stuff.
Then no wonder so many people are,are failing and finding it too hard.
So that's kind of where it started.
And that's kind of why the name parttime pilot came about because I thought,
you know, look, there's so many peopleout here who they want to make the
dream, either a career change, or theyjust want to, Achieve the dream of

(10:11):
flying, but they don't have just a tonof money where they can just like stop
working or like stop taking care ofthe kids and just like focus on that.
So we all kind of start off as thispart time pilot where we're, you know,
we have a full time, uh, schedule.
And then on the side, we're trying tomake this career switch or whatever.
And so, um, it was sort of, I wantedto tailor everything to that person

(10:36):
that is trying to do this on a limited.
A limited schedule, you know, a busyschedule, a limited amount of time.
So that's why we have, like I wastalking about the mobile app, right?
That's exactly in line with kind ofour goals to just, and then we have
audio lessons, so you can listento ground school stuff on the go,
everything we kind of add is kind ofwith that in mind to make it easier,

(10:59):
uh, and, uh, more efficient forstudents to, to learn the content.

Bill (11:05):
interesting and I just learned something.
I didn't know, um, to be aground instructor instructor
for an instrument rating.
I guess there's additional training.

Nick Smith (11:15):
Yeah, so there's just like kind of a flight instructor.
There's different groundinstructor ratings.
So it's basic instrument and advanced.
Um, advanced is like, now when I, when Iwent in for my instrument, the person was
like, why didn't you just do the advanced?
And then you could, cause advanceis like, you can teach everything.
And like, you know, once you've learneda lot of it, once you've learned

(11:38):
kind of like private and IFR, like,

Bill (11:42):
or the fundamentals of instruction are all the same.
It's really

Nick Smith (11:45):
Yeah,

Bill (11:46):
technical content.

Nick Smith (11:48):
right.
Exactly.
So, um, but I just, I did it piecemeal.
So I did the basic one, which allows youto teach private sport and recreation.
And then I did IFR and then,you know, eventually I'll, I'll
probably do advanced as well.
And,
um,

Bill (12:03):
you
do commercial CFI multi stuff like that.

Nick Smith (12:07):
yeah.
And even, uh, helicopter as well.

Bill (12:10):
okay.

Nick Smith (12:11):
Yeah.
So it's kind of like, yeah,it's kind of everything.
Yeah.

Bill (12:15):
Cool.

Nick Smith (12:16):
At least that's how I understand it.

Bill (12:18):
All

Nick Smith (12:18):
I haven't looked too much into the advanced one, but yeah.

Bill (12:21):
Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask the obvious question.

Nick Smith (12:24):
Okay.

Bill (12:25):
time
you weren't really ready to do that.
Didn't really think that's thedirection you were going to go.
But have you reconsideredmaybe becoming a CFI?

Nick Smith (12:34):
Uh, no, I haven't.
Yeah.
Still just, um,

Bill (12:38):
Focus on the ground instruction.

Nick Smith (12:41):
yeah, yeah.
I, yeah, I like teachingthe ground knowledge.
Um, and, uh, you know, just a, a timething, you know, I can reach more people
teaching the ground content than Ican, you know, flying with one person.
And then for me, it's just, thisseems a little stressful to fly with.

Bill (12:59):
to kill you every day.

Nick Smith (13:01):
Yeah, exactly.
So I don't know.
But, uh, I don't knock anyone that does.
I mean, we need flight instructors.
So thank you for, for doing that.
But, uh, I don't think that's for me.
Yeah.

Bill (13:14):
I hear you.
All right.
Well, um, that, and we've talkedabout it a little bit, that you added
instrument, um, plans to add more.
The reason I ask is it seems likethere would be an opportunity.
your students who are maybe goingon to advanced ratings, even beyond
instrument, uh, to kind of grow with themor allow them to kind of grow with you.

(13:39):
So are you thinking about adding someof the other, um, the other, not the,
the other certificates, um, and helpingyour students kind of continue on?
Is that something you're planning on?

Nick Smith (13:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, whether it's we go the commercialroute before we, or maybe we do
rotorcraft, like you talked about, Ikind of go with the commercial route.
The flow of what thepeople are asking for.
And that's why I went IFR.
So many people were asking for IFR.
I haven't got that many peopleasking for commercial, but I know

(14:19):
it'll come now that we have IFR,but I guess it makes sense, right?
The, the further you get kind ofthe less people that are actually
making, making it that far.
So eventually, right.
I want to have it all.
Um, I want to have rotorcraftand, and commercial.

Bill (14:35):
It's just a matter of, uh, prioritizing which ones come first, right?
Mm hmm.

Nick Smith (14:39):
Right.
Exactly.
So, um, but yeah, that'sdefinitely in the works right now.
Um, you know, after doing the check writeprep and the IFR and the release and a
couple of books, I was like, I wanted topump the brakes and just like focus on
just like polishing everything up and justmaking, um, you know, there's, I always
have ideas of like how to make the coursebetter and I'm always getting feedback.

(15:02):
So I'm just taking last few monthsand a few more months to just kind
of Polish it all up right now.
We're redoing our.
Audio lessons in the private pilotcourse, because when we recorded them
since then, our, our lessons havechanged just a little bit, you know,
I've gotten better at explaining things.
So I've changed that in thewritten lesson, but I haven't

(15:24):
had the time to update the audio.
So I'm going back to updatethe audio, make new videos.
You know, now, uh, we havesome videos with animation.
So trying to get more animation,just things like that.
This is just polishes itup, makes it even better.
So that's kind of whatwe're focusing on now.
before we just throwmore products at people.

Bill (15:41):
Right, right.
No, that's

Nick Smith (15:42):
Yeah.

Bill (15:43):
Yeah,
I've noticed as I've been, uh, teachingand practicing and things like that,
that you polish up your presentation forcertain subjects based on, oh, I've got a
better story to tell here, or I've got a

Nick Smith (15:59):
Mm-hmm

Bill (16:01):
to use here that gets through to more students, things like that.
That's kind of what you'rerunning into, right?

Nick Smith (16:06):
Oh, 100%.
Like one of the ones thatI've changed many, many times.
And you'll have to tell me a littlebit about, about what you're doing
now, uh, with the teaching, butlike the, um, the temperature
pressure effects on the altimeter.
Right.
And

Bill (16:22):
yes.

Nick Smith (16:23):
the, reasons why that happens and, the confusion around that,
just as confusing as it is to learn,it's even more confusing to explain.
Uh, so, but I finally like have foundthat, I have a good way of explaining it
now, but it's taken multiple iterations.
You know what I mean?

(16:43):
Like, and like you said, analogies.
Um, to do that.
So, so

Bill (16:48):
don't even

Nick Smith (16:48):
yeah,

Bill (16:49):
remember that being in the private, but I got my private so long ago.
I probably have just forgotten,but I remember kind of having to
relearn that when I was doing myinstrument, or maybe it was my

Nick Smith (17:02):
right.

Bill (17:03):
don't
know.
I don't ever

Nick Smith (17:04):
And the one then also, maybe you just learned hide a low lookout below

Bill (17:09):
Maybe I

Nick Smith (17:09):
and that's

Bill (17:10):
the test, but I didn't learn how to explain it.

Nick Smith (17:13):
Well, and like, that's kind of a dilemma I have too.
It's like, okay, for these privatestudents, do I want to just
have them learn this for now?
Or, you know, I know there's goingto be those students that are
like, well, why does this happen?
And it's like, do we wantto go into the weeds?
Cause it is, it is veryweedy that subject.

(17:34):
So like, is, so I always kind ofplay with that dilemma, um, you
know, cause there's so much to learn.
Like, do we want to, obviously it'sgood to, to learn the more, It's
good to learn more, but you know,you want to look out for their time.

Bill (17:48):
just touched Nick on my probably my biggest challenge in teaching
that I've discovered about myself.
It wasn't that big of a shock.
I'm a bit of a nerd who likesto dive into a subject because I
want to know everything about it.

(18:09):
And so 1 of the big challengesthat I face is not going too
deep with us with somebody who.
Um, is just learning, you know, andso it's really kind of, uh, an art be
able to get across the right amount ofinformation that is accurate, correct,

(18:32):
but doesn't confuse and doesn't overwhelmstudent before they're ready for that.

Nick Smith (18:41):
Yep.

Bill (18:42):
totally know what you're saying.
I, I could do a, I could do a groundon fundamentals of flight would take
two and a half hours, you know, butnobody who's learning first about the
fundamentals of, of flight is goingto be able to sit there and take in

(19:02):
information for two and a half hours.
And it's not something they don't needall of that detail to get their, um, Get
their certificate or pass the written butif I'm with somebody who's also interested
in going deep, that could easily happen,and so that what you're doing, trying to
find that balance is not only difficult,but really important for the learner

(19:27):
and it, what you're doing is hard too,because when you teach one on one or
even one to few, you can sort of gauge.
Where people want to go, you haveto do it where, it works well
for a large number of people.
And so I'm wondering how you, howyou navigate that, because that's

(19:50):
totally different than how I woulddo it, say, in a one to one scenario.

Nick Smith (19:56):
Yeah.

Bill (19:56):
is it just a lot of feedback from, by the way, do you call them your
customers, your users, your students?
What, what do you, whatdo you call your users?
Are they students?

Nick Smith (20:07):
Students.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Bill (20:09):
do you
have a really like close feedbackloop with your students or how
do you sort of navigate that?
be interesting to

Nick Smith (20:18):
That's a, that's an amazing question and only
one who kind of understandsthis space and teaching it too.
So, uh, I've never been asked this before,but it's such a good question and it's.
It's not easy.
Um, but I,
I'm trying to think of the best way.

(20:39):
So one, two, you asked if, if there's aclose feedback loop and yes, absolutely.
I told you kind of before that I tryand go with the way of the people.
Um, I find that, uh,
Having that community, uh, being,

Bill (20:56):
soon then?
I'm just kidding.

Nick Smith (20:58):
yeah.
Right.
so having that, um, that communityfeel, and kind of, and that's
one other thing we try to do.
We try and bridge the gap from likeonline to like an in person instruction.
So like, what is itthat's great about, yeah.
What is it that's great aboutthe in person instruction?
Well, it's being able to reach outwhen you have a question and getting

(21:19):
that question back quickly and kindof understanding where you're at.
Along kind of like a mentor thing.
And that's hard to do with a lot ofpeople, but that's, that's one of my, I
think that if we can do that online, wewill stand out between everybody else.
If, and if we have that one featurewhere we feel connected to the

(21:39):
student, they don't feel like, Oh,here's a bunch of PDFs and videos.
See you later.
Right.
Good luck.
Um, so having that close feedback loop.
Is great.
And always, uh, like just theother day I had a student that was
really, really thankful for, theywere like, Hey, like, you know, on
this video, you talked about you.
You know, if you do a certainamount of hours per day, you can get

(22:02):
through ground school in, in a month.
And I was wondering like, what lessonswould you recommend I do each day?
And I had already hadlike this calendar thing.
And so it gave me this idea where like,I'll just put each lesson on there
so that they can just check it off.
And so I did that realquick and I sent it to her.
She's like, wow, this is so cool.
Like you actually listened to me.
Yeah.
Like you guys have the best ideas.

Bill (22:24):
hmm.

Nick Smith (22:25):
Cause you are actually going through it.
So that close feedback loop, and thenjust having different options, I think
would be the other way and just trying,and this is what's hard is trying to.
Communicate that.
So like, for example, in our lessons,we have the audio lesson at the top.
We have written, you know, visualaids and like diagrams throughout.

(22:46):
And then we'll have a video at thebottom and then a quiz, but also at
the bottom we have a test prep summary.
And the reason I added that test prepsummary is like, sometimes there's some
students that are just, you know, nomatter how much I try and tell them,
it's good to understand the fundamentalsof the concepts and what's behind
them and not just rote memorization.

(23:06):
No matter how much I say that somestudents are just going to do that because
they're running out of time or whatever.
So I have that option in there for them.
Um, but the difficulty of havingall those different options, right?
Whether you want to listento it, watch the video.
Some students and I, I was kind oflike this, that if something's like
given to me, I'm like, I have to do it
all.
And so like,

Bill (23:27):
Yeah.

Nick Smith (23:28):
yeah, exactly.
So trying to say like, Hey,just do what works for you.
The quiz at the end is going to tellyou what you need to know pretty much.
Right.
So take the quiz and if you, youknow, pick which way you want to
learn the best and then take the quiz.
And if you're lacking there, um, you know,then look into the, you know, then watch

(23:50):
the video maybe, or, uh, then we, onecool thing that we added since the last
time I talked to you about, cause AI.
Came about probably since thelast time I talked to you.
Right now we have AI.
So I, um, and this was a lot harderto do right when it came out, but I
wanted to be at the forefront of this.
And so I built like all thesethings called like vectors

(24:13):
and fed it into chat GPT.
And so basically it was likea prompt and a response.
And I took.
And I made from every single lessonprompts and response that students
might have and fed that to chat GPTto like train it on our content.
And then, um, so it took so longand then now open AI, I don't

(24:33):
know if you're familiar, butnow you can just upload PDFs.
So it's like, wait,

Bill (24:37):
yeah,

Nick Smith (24:40):
so, but on every single lesson, we have an AI that we've uploaded
all our PDFs and all the FAA PDFs too.
And so.
It has that context and theycan get a quick question.
It's not meant to replace us, sothey can still reach out to us.
But I guess long story short, justhaving all those options and just

(25:00):
trying to communicate to them,like use what works best for you.
And, but there are all theseoptions for you if you need it.
So,

Bill (25:09):
I can see, I can see that being a pretty big challenge

Nick Smith (25:14):
yeah,

Bill (25:14):
strike that balance.
So, yeah, I appreciate that.

Nick Smith (25:18):
yeah,

Bill (25:20):
Do you still have your perfect pass rate?

Nick Smith (25:23):
I don't know.

Bill (25:26):
well, that's

Nick Smith (25:26):
Uh, we've had,

Bill (25:27):
challenge of growth.
Yeah,

Nick Smith (25:32):
that I know of who, um, didn't pass the exam.
And then, um, both of themwere like, no, this is on me.
I don't want to refund.
But I was like, Hey, our policyis to refund if you don't pass.
So I'm happy to refund you.
And then they passed the second time.
But, um, but yeah, we didn't,uh, It didn't give, I knew it
was going to come, but yeah,

Bill (25:56):
well, good.
That just means you're growing.
You've got a lot more studentsbecause sometimes people have bad
days or they're just not ready.
So it happens to everyone.

Nick Smith (26:05):
yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And I was gonna say, so, uh, give me,why don't you give me a little update
since the last, last time we talked?
I, I know that like, uh, did you startIFR training or is that something?

Bill (26:19):
Yeah.
Um, I did that just a few months after we.
actually.
Um, so I did my, I startedmy instrument rating.
Well, first, first I had to, youknow, get current again and relearn
how to fly an actual airplane.
Um, start
refreshing my bookknowledge, things like that.

(26:40):
Because I'd taken quite a while off.
Um, but then, and this is, you know, thisis pretty well documented in the podcast,
but, um, then back in, uh, January orFebruary of 2023, I started my instrument
rating, did that, um, got my commercial.

(27:01):
Then I took a few monthsoff of training and, um, I.
I forgot to mention back in that same timeperiod when I started my IFR training,
I left my long time corporate, you know,technology job started doing some other
things and started the training at thesame time and doing all these things.

(27:24):
But then I got my commercialand then I did my CFI.
Um, but I, I kind of finishedtraining for my CFI about four
months ago, I've literally

Nick Smith (27:37):
wow.

Bill (27:37):
this
whole time to get a check ride and

Nick Smith (27:40):
Oh, no way.

Bill (27:42):
scheduled.

Nick Smith (27:44):
Oh my God.
Yeah.
That's like, I'm hearing that everywhere.

Bill (27:47):
It's pretty nuts.
It's pretty nuts.
It's a little frustrating, butI try not to let it bother me.
I'm just excited to, so all ofthe, um, training I've been doing
has all been sort of in a mockas my preparation or training.
So.
I've led a couple of discussionswith private pilots, um, under the

(28:09):
supervision of my CFI instructor.
You know, since

Nick Smith (28:13):
Yeah.

Bill (28:13):
haven't passed my check right yet.
I'm not a CFI.
Um, so I've done some of that.
I've done some where we get togetherwith other CFI candidates and
we teach each other a subject.
So we can kind of go through the lessonplans, kind of learn how to teach it.
Then I've also been doing, um, I'vealso been doing the same thing with my,
um, I have two, uh, three adult sons,but two of them are, um, interested

(28:39):
in aviation in one way or another.
I have one son who's, um, already aprivate pilot and he's planning on
getting a bunch of his other ratings.
And so I've been, um, teachinghim, doing grounds with him on
Maneuvers and things like that, and then

Nick Smith (28:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Bill (29:00):
in the airplane and flying with him.
So I always fly right seat now, justto make sure that I stay in you know,

Nick Smith (29:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Bill (29:09):
so I've been as a private pilot, unfortunately, um, when he's, The
sole manipulator of the controls.
I don't really get to log thetime because I'm not a CFI yet.
So that's a

Nick Smith (29:21):
Yeah.

Bill (29:22):
but he gets to log the time.
So that's cool for him.
but I also have another son who worksin aviation, but he's not a pilot.
Um, he's going to become amechanic, an airplane mechanic.
So he's starting school soon and he'sgot a job with with an aviation company,
where he does a lot of their groundwork.

(29:43):
And, uh, So I've done the same thingwith him where I'll teach him, you know,
Um, ground lessons because he does wantto get his private pilot eventually and
and then we'll go out and fly.
And in that case, I get tolog it because he can't.
So,

Nick Smith (30:03):
Right.
Nice.
So man, are you guys, it soundslike you guys need to start
like a aviation business.
You guys got all of it right there.
Yeah.

Bill (30:15):
Um, but.
But yeah, it's, it's kind of dragging out.
I'm, to begin teaching because I'vealways thought I would love teaching.
I mean, I love teaching ingeneral and I've taught many other
topics and different, you know,aspects of my career and my life.
Um, I've done seminars, I'vedone, you know, one to many, I've

(30:35):
done one on one teaching and Ireally, I really enjoy teaching.
I think I'm kind of good at it.
so I'm really excited totake two of my passions,
Flying and merge them together, and Ireally enjoy it when I've been doing it
with my with my sons and when I've beendoing it with the other students of the

(30:56):
school, and I'm really excited to getgoing on this, and I'm just held up by
this technicality that I can't I can'tget, you know, my checkride scheduled.
So I'm hoping sometime in November.
Cross your fingers.
Um, I'm working with 2 or 3 different.
DPS to get on their schedule.

(31:17):
I still can't get on the schedule.
Literally

Nick Smith (31:19):
what area

Bill (31:19):
months.
So

Nick Smith (31:21):
where, what area are you at again?

Bill (31:23):
in the Phoenix Valley.

Nick Smith (31:25):
Okay.
Have you looked like to just,

Bill (31:27):
done here.
So lots of yeah.

Nick Smith (31:31):
have you looked at like flying to somewhere with a DP or,

Bill (31:34):
of these still sort of in the Arizona area would be.
Um,

Nick Smith (31:42):
Oh, okay.

Bill (31:42):
that, but, but yeah,

Nick Smith (31:44):
Man, that's crazy.

Bill (31:45):
out, I'm going to have to start broadening and go to Dallas or San
Diego or you know, go somewhere elsewhere I can find a DPE because it's
really getting kind of ridiculous.
I'm

Nick Smith (31:57):
Yeah.
That's wild.
I wonder,

Bill (31:59):
I'm just excited.
You know, I'm excited to get started.
And.
start gaining more and moreexperience from the teaching side.
And I'm just really lookingforward to doing it.
I think I'm going to love it.

Nick Smith (32:10):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Good for you.
Uh, now do you think that the reason forthe DP shortage is a Shortage of DPS or
are there more students that are needing

Bill (32:23):
Yeah, this is good.

Nick Smith (32:24):
DPS?

Bill (32:25):
a lot and I would not call myself an expert in this, but in the discussions
that I've had and been privy to, Idon't think there's a shortage of DPEs.
I think it's, it has todo with a lot of things.
One, not all DPEs.
are either eligible orwilling to do CFI initial.
a very long check ride.

(32:45):
Um, it's,

Nick Smith (32:47):
Yeah, that's true.

Bill (32:48):
does take special qualifications and certain amounts of experience
to even be qualified to do it.
And so you can take all of the DPEs andI don't know what the figure on this, but
it's possible that only half of them oreven less than that, um, do CFI initial.
So

Nick Smith (33:07):
Yeah

Bill (33:07):
part of it is it got, I mean, it's always been hard throughout my
recent training to schedule a DPE,uh, but it's never been this hard.
And part of that, I think is it'sjust harder to find who's doing that.
And then the people, theDPEs who are doing that are
generally not full time DPEs.
In fact, a lot of DPEsaren't full time DPEs.
They, they hold otherjobs in aviation usually.

(33:30):
And whether
that's they're running a bigflight school or, um, they're.
Airline pilots or, you know, any numberof, of things that they're doing,
they don't do check rides full time.
And so that hurts too.
They may only have two slotsa month where they'll do a CFI
initial, even the ones who do do it.

(33:52):
Um, and then 3rd,
I think that, um, we've sort of got abubble in the pipeline of, of students,
um, or pilots, uh, because most ofthe airlines have, have, uh, Either
completely stopped or slowed hiring.
So maybe there's people thatweren't planning on a CFI and

(34:15):
now they're kind of like, well, I

Nick Smith (34:18):
Yeah.

Bill (34:18):
job
in the airline.
So maybe I'll become a CFI.
Um, there, you know, any number of things.
And so I think there's.
additional training going on becausethey're not moving on to jobs in
aviation because, you know, we'rejust in one of those little bubbles
where it's backing up a little bit.

Nick Smith (34:41):
Yeah.

Bill (34:41):
I imagined that and a whole host of other things, like I said, in my region,
because of the weather and because of,I don't know, for all of the various
reasons, Arizona is just a training Mecca.
And

Nick Smith (34:56):
Yeah.

Bill (34:56):
have a lot of DPEs around here.
But we also have a large,large number of students or for
various ratings and certificates.
So I don't think there'sreally a shortage.
If you look on the the roles, soto speak, there's a lot of DPEs.

(35:21):
But some, some, some of them justdon't work that much as a DP.
And then I think some of them probablydon't get that much work because
while most are probably incredible.
I haven't met most.
I think there's also DPS that peopleavoid like the plague because they're.
They're just not very good.

(35:42):
so,
I, I think that's an exception.
Um, but I don't know, for whatever reason,it's just been very difficult to get this
one scheduled more difficult than theother ratings and certificates that I did.

Nick Smith (35:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, that all makes sense to meEspecially your yeah, like you said
to see if I yeah That makes sense.
But I've even heard it hard for private
too lately.
So yeah.

Bill (36:08):
a while, but, um, but it doesn't, it's not 4 months.

Nick Smith (36:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's,

Bill (36:13):
I mean,

Nick Smith (36:15):
that's true.
Yeah.

Bill (36:16):
but anyway, it is what it is.
And, uh, we just deal with it and wego through the process and I'm excited
to start teaching more and more.
So

Nick Smith (36:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Very cool.
Yeah.
Thanks for the update.
I appreciate that.
I think you'd be a good teacher.
I haven't heard you teach,but I think that the way you
articulate things at least is good.
Yeah.

Bill (36:40):
Yeah.
And I

Nick Smith (36:41):
Yeah.

Bill (36:41):
I
mean, part of the reason I love teachingin general is because it always makes
me more of an expert in the topicbecause you always get questions that
you wouldn't have thought of yourself.
You.
have to be prepared for questions.
Um, you have to, you know, you alluded tobefore, something kind of, and explaining

(37:07):
something are two different skills, twodifferent things that you have to do.
And being able to explain somethingTo two different types of people.
I mean, many different types of people,but two major categories of people,
people who understand it at all.
then people who kind of understand it, butneed, you know, that, that second depth of

(37:30):
knowledge, or they need somebody to helpthem get to where, Oh, they really get it.
Not just

Nick Smith (37:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Bill (37:38):
know, beyond that rote knowledge really correlating.
The information, amazing when thatkind of happens for yourself, but I
find it even more amazing when youfacilitate that in somebody else.
It's, it's very exciting andinvigorating when you see the

(37:59):
synapses created in somebody's mind.
I mean, not literally see them,but you see the correlation
happen and they go, Oh, Oh,
And it's

Nick Smith (38:12):
Yeah.

Bill (38:13):
and being able to do that requires a level of knowledge of the topic that
you might not get unless you teach it.
And one of the reasons I'ma sucker for knowledge.
And when I don't get When I kind ofunderstand something, but I don't know
all the details about it, it bugs me.

(38:34):
And so

Nick Smith (38:35):
Yeah.

Bill (38:36):
part
of the exciting thing and part ofthe reason that, I love teaching is
because whatever the subject matter is.
I mean, I used to do it backin college, like with physics
courses and stuff like that.
I would teach other, I would teachother fellow students about a
really difficult upcoming because Iknew that if I taught it, nail it.

(38:58):
And so
it's, it's just fun.
It's fun to be able to do that.
And it's going to make meway more knowledgeable and
comfortable with my own knowledge.

Nick Smith (39:08):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
It'll make you a better pilot.
But yeah, I always tell studentsto like the best way to learn and
study is to learn it as if you werehaving to explain it to somebody
else because then you really had,and I, I use the term, have you heard
of like first principles thinking?
Yeah.
So like I, I always try and break downthe concepts when I'm creating a lesson

(39:32):
and I'm like, okay, I, you know, I wantthem to actually understand this concept.
So like, what are the first principlekind of fundamental facts that You
know, about this concept that theyabsolutely need to have and know, um,
that'll set the foundation for beingable to, to understand sort of any
sort of rote memorization question.

(39:55):
If even if they didn't remember it, right.
Because it's just because theyunderstand they can still work it
out logically because they understandthose core principles or whatever.
So, um, but yeah, and you remindedme of the, have you seen that
curve of like, um, it's like.
It's like on the Y axis, it'slike confidence in your knowledge.

(40:18):
And then on the X axis, it's like howmuch experience learning it you have.
And so it's like, starts as a bachelor'sand like, after your bachelor's,
your confidence is really high.
And then if you get like a master's level,
like the more you learnabout something, the,

Bill (40:30):
down.

Nick Smith (40:32):
yeah, the more you like realize you don't know anything.

Bill (40:36):
Yep.

Nick Smith (40:36):
Yeah.

Bill (40:37):
I've had many personal experiences about that, um, throughout my life on
all kinds of topics and, you know, in myprofessional life and aviation, all of it.
And, um, I, yeah, that isvery, very real for me.
And I have to my fellow CFI candidatesas well as my instructors Um, as I've

(41:03):
been going through this process aboutthis very thing, because I'll just
sometimes shake my head and go here.
I am a CFI candidate.
I've been flying for 15 years off off andon, but I've been flying for 15 years.
And did I not realize whatI just learned right here?

Nick Smith (41:25):
Yeah.

Bill (41:26):
it's like, this seems so basic.
I can't think of the example rightnow, but it's happened multiple times
where I'll just shake my head and go.
Okay.
I, we know nothing like it takes, ittakes a lot of experience and a long
time to start building that confidenceback up because the more you learn
about a topic, the more you realizehow much, how little, you know,

Nick Smith (41:50):
Yeah.
And it, it humbles you.

Bill (41:51):
the scheme of things

Nick Smith (41:53):
Yeah.
It humbles you.
Like when I first started like teaching,making videos and stuff, like I was
like, I can't, I have to make sure thatpeople, you know, that when people watch
this, they think that I know absolutelyeverything and I'm perfect in this video.
And then now I'm to the point wherelike, Oh yeah, I could totally be wrong.

(42:14):
Like, please tell melike, let's hear like,

Bill (42:17):
I

Nick Smith (42:17):
I've, I've
been wrong many times.

Bill (42:19):
think that probably helps you connect with the students better, uh,
because it's more, it, it, it's, uh,more familiar to their experiences.
Even, even things outside ofaviation, things that they're experts
at, they will get that, you know?

(42:40):
And so I think, I think it makesyou, think it makes you more human
able to connect better and thus.
trustworthy and probably helpsyou teach more effectively.
one of the things that I've been, I'vebeen, um, blessed with is most of the
time to have instructors when I aska question or I bring up a topic or

(43:08):
you know how it is when aviatorsare sitting around, it'll often go
to, Hey, what if, or what about,I've been blessed with instructors
that would always go, I don't know.
Let's figure it

Nick Smith (43:24):
Yeah.

Bill (43:25):
And,

Nick Smith (43:25):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

Bill (43:27):
that, that is way more, I guess that, that builds a lot more
trust than trying to make somethingup or, Oh, that's a dumb question.
Or, you know, some other way of replyingto hide your ignorance of the topic.
Does that make sense?

Nick Smith (43:45):
Oh, 100%.
And like, yeah, you make an amazing point.
Like if they think when they look at thesyllabus of what all they have to learn
and they just get kind of overwhelmed andthen, and then I'm over here acting like,

Bill (43:58):
you

Nick Smith (43:58):
Oh Yeah.
It's

Bill (43:59):
Yeah.
it's.

Nick Smith (43:59):
It's really easy.
Like, what do you, where,where you don't know?
And they're going to be like,so just like I'm blanking on
the word, but, uh, discouraged.
Yes.
Thank you.
They're gonna be so discouraged.
And, but then, like you said,if I come at them and I'm like,
Oh, um, that's a great question.

(44:20):
I don't know, but.
But I know how to figure it out.
So let's go figure it out.
And,

Bill (44:25):
know

Nick Smith (44:25):
um,

Bill (44:26):
or I know.
Yeah,

Nick Smith (44:28):
right.

Bill (44:29):
And,
and the other thing is.
One of the things I've noticedfurther along I've gotten in my
training again, you'll take this.
amazing instructor who you kind of feellike has so much experience that they
know everything and they'll, readilyadmit, Oh yeah, I forgot what all the

(44:55):
words in that, um, you know, that, uh,memory aid are, you know, it's one of
the ones from private or something.

Nick Smith (45:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Bill (45:07):
Oh yeah, was that, what was the a standing for in that
mnemonic, you know, and, and,

Nick Smith (45:13):
Yeah.
Like a tomato flamesor something like that.
Yeah.

Bill (45:16):
and I'll go, Oh, thank goodness, because I forget all
of these all the time, you know,

Nick Smith (45:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Bill (45:25):
kind of what it means and where to find it and, and being
able to refresh your memory.
And I find that so much moreapproachable and less discouraging.
And I think most.
Aspiring aviators or aspiring anything.
Uh, that's probably more approachable,uh, less discouraging and it helps

(45:47):
you connect better and teach better.
So yeah, that's good.
that's funny that you bring thatup because that's a curve that
goes down as you know, more becausethat's something I've run into
so much in my own experience, so

Nick Smith (46:01):
Yeah.
And then like doing it ononline too, is a bit of a,

Bill (46:07):
true.

Nick Smith (46:08):
they say, like, if you want to have the best, like, uh, like inner work,
just try to become an online entrepreneurbecause you get all these like faceless
people commenting on your stuff and sayingwhatever, like YouTube is the worst.
And like, uh, some of my firstYouTube videos were, you know,
pretty low, low, uh, productionquality and things like that.

(46:31):
And I made mistakes and just, just hearingit from the, uh, You know, anonymous crowd
is, yeah, is, uh, you, you get a thickskin and you realize that, you know, it's,
it's better to not act like, you know,everything and just, just, just, you know,
be open.

Bill (46:50):
it's

Nick Smith (46:51):
Yeah, exactly.

Bill (46:54):
I totally agree.
It's one of the things I hear aboutfrom my listeners on the podcast all
the time that they appreciate me?
like airing my mistakes

Nick Smith (47:05):
Yeah.

Bill (47:07):
It's real easy and tempting To go.
Wow, what a bonehead what a boneheadmove that was Maybe I don't put
that out there in the ether foreverybody to laugh at me but
it really is better for people.
Again, I keep saying this wordconnect, but I think that as you

(47:30):
alluded to earlier, um, is really,really important, especially when
you're doing something online, becausethere's not a natural community there.
It really does help build that trustand community because again, they
go, Oh, I make tons of mistakes.
I'm not alone.

(47:52):
Bill made tons of mistakesand I did, and I still do.
I still make tons of mistakes.

Nick Smith (47:57):
Yeah.

Bill (47:58):
so,
I, I just think it's, it's more fun.
It's more human.
It's more real.
It helps you connect.
And I think it helps people learn andMost importantly, I think it helps
people not get discouraged and quit
there are times there have beentimes in the last two years

(48:18):
where I wanted to just go.
You know what?
There's other things I could do.
I love flying.
This is too

Nick Smith (48:25):
It can be very discouraging.

Bill (48:28):
And I am
I really ever going to get good at this?
Or am I really ever going to get this?
Or am I ever reallygoing to remember this?
Or whatever it may be, canbe really discouraging.
And.
The thing I like to people knowis that that is the experience

(48:50):
for basically everyone.
And if we all make sure that everyoneknows that, it's much, it's much
easier to go, well, it happened tothis person I really looked up to, this
instructor I had who I really admire.
It happened to them.
I can get through this too.

Nick Smith (49:10):
Yep.
Yeah.
One of my best performing YouTubevideos is where I just talk about my
story about how I paid way too much
for, you know,

Bill (49:19):
ups,

Nick Smith (49:20):
for my, all my screw ups.
Yep.
And it's the best performing onebecause people are like all the time.
They're just like, Ohmy God, I can't believe

Bill (49:28):
Yeah.

Nick Smith (49:30):
this.
makes me feel so much better.
And it's like, yeah, yeah.
So.

Bill (49:34):
yeah,

Nick Smith (49:35):
that's the big drive of your podcast.
That's the big draw.
I think of your podcast.
I remember after the first episodetelling, you know, my students to
go and listen to it because exactlywhat you said and the feedback that
you get is you're just real and you,you go through the journey, your own
journey, and then people can learn,but they can also just kind of relate.

(49:55):
And just make
not get discouraged.

Bill (49:58):
in the podcast, um, i'm i'm near the beginning of my instrument
training You know, those are theepisodes i'm releasing by the

Nick Smith (50:05):
Right.

Bill (50:06):
Um remind me to talk to you about beyond the checkride that i've been doing
you'll love this um, but uh, but yeah,that's what i'm doing right now and I
look back on that so And I did this inthe early part of So what, what editing
and releasing these episodes is doingis letting me relive that and going,

(50:26):
Oh man, that was a pretty hard rating.
Like it was a

Nick Smith (50:31):
Yeah.

Bill (50:32):
to
learn.
And I was just coming back intoaviation after a multi year hiatus.
Um, many of the terms and conceptsI didn't know at all, you know, I

Nick Smith (50:44):
Yeah,

Bill (50:45):
approaches I knew of departures, but I really didn't
know any details about them.
And it, it, it's been interestingto be able to go back a
year and a half and go, wow.
sucked, but, um, but I still do becauseI don't fly instrument very often.

(51:07):
And once you go to your commercial,it's basically like a private
pilot check, right on steroids.
When you do that one, right there, you're

Nick Smith (51:16):
yeah.
Mm-hmm

Bill (51:17):
that.
And so I've been staying current.
And so, you know, withmy instrument, and so.
It's pretty funny because withoutdoing it all the time, it is
a very, very disposable skill.
Like it goes away really, really quick.
Um, and you, it's so easy to getbehind the airplane, um, flying

(51:40):
instrument.
you're not doing it all thetime, like seriously difficult.
And so I'll go up with myson who's a private pilot.
He'll be my safety pilot.
And I'll go, Hey, I gotta, I wantto knock out three approaches.
I want to and get currentand I'll get done with that.
And not only am I exhausted, but Iflew like the worst approaches you

(52:03):
can imagine trying to get down tominimums and trying to correct and
not get it, you know, whatever it is.
And I'll come back just completelyemotionally beat up because,
um, because I was so bad at it.
It was so hard for me to stay ahead and,and do everything that I'm supposed to be

(52:25):
doing just on a simulated IFR approach.
You know what I mean?

Nick Smith (52:33):
Yeah.
So is that what you would say was thehardest part, just staying ahead with all
that you kind of have to track and do.

Bill (52:39):
I don't think that's the hardest part.
I think the hardest part was collectingand retaining all of this new
information and then being able to,and that's what made it hard to stay
ahead of the airplane is now all of asudden there's a whole lot more to do.
And I wasn't doing this with an autopilot.

(53:00):
you're talking hand flying.
instrument approaches when you're kindof new to all of this briefing the plate
because you're doing this single piloteven though you're sitting with a either a
safety pilot an instructor or an examineryou're doing this single pilot they're
not helping you do it you know what I mean

Nick Smith (53:23):
Yeah,

Bill (53:24):
so you're acting like you're single pilot
I mean single pilot if you're an actualIMC pilot approaches without without
an autopilot that's no joke man I mean,that's not something it would take
me a long time to feel comfortabledoing that, um, in, in real IMC.

(53:45):
Now, where I fly, wedon't get a lot of IMC.
I'd have to come out to SanDiego in the spring and summer
to get IMC down to minimums.
You know, we just don't

Nick Smith (53:55):
yeah.

Bill (53:56):
If we've got IMC conditions down to minimums, you shouldn't be flying.
Cause you're probably in the middleof a thunderstorm or microburst,

Nick Smith (54:04):
Yeah.

Bill (54:05):
or, or a Habub, right?
But.

Nick Smith (54:07):
Yeah.
That's true.

Bill (54:09):
So, so it's not like I'm probably going to be doing
that and, but I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn't do it.
It's it takes way too much practiceand experience, in my opinion,
to do single pilot IMC, um, to
without having done it a lot in the

Nick Smith (54:32):
Mm-hmm

Bill (54:32):
or two.
You know what I

Nick Smith (54:34):
Yeah.

Bill (54:35):
Even if I did it a lot for a year, because maybe I got a job somewhere where
I was doing it like every day, and thenI came back here and went for a year
without doing that, I wouldn't do it.
It's, it's way too, too much load.
So

Nick Smith (54:49):
Yeah.

Bill (54:50):
doing it a safety pilot or an examiner or an instructor
where you're simulating singlepilot, it's just as hard.
It's just not as dangerous.
Right?

Nick Smith (55:00):
Right.

Bill (55:00):
is
the time to do it, but the reasonI wouldn't do it is I think
it's too much unless you'redoing it all the time because

Nick Smith (55:09):
100%.

Bill (55:10):
have to be an autopilot in and of yourself.
You can't be thinking about what's next.
What next has to come naturally.
So that's what I found.
The hardest part is allof this new knowledge.
The, the test, the written test forthat, you know, you're teaching it.
The written test for that isnot, not easy, uh, because

Nick Smith (55:32):
Mm-hmm

Bill (55:32):
whole
bunch of new concepts and new ways tothink about stuff that really has nothing
to do with the private pilot exam thatyou just finished, you know, generally,

Nick Smith (55:43):
Yeah.
So I,

Bill (55:45):
go ahead.

Nick Smith (55:45):
uh, fi uh, do you wanna finish?

Bill (55:48):
Oh, I was just going to say, um, but then adding to the, all that
new knowledge, having to fly quoteunquote, single pilot, IFR down
to minimums with a whole bunch ofdifferent approaches all in one day.

Nick Smith (56:00):
Yeah.

Bill (56:01):
Um,
it's, exhausting and it's not

Nick Smith (56:04):
Mm-hmm

Bill (56:05):
physically.
It's exhausting mentally and emotionallybecause you you're behind the airplane or
almost behind the, behind the airplane.

Nick Smith (56:15):
Right?
You're always just trying to keep up.

Bill (56:18):
And as soon

Nick Smith (56:18):
Yeah.

Bill (56:19):
missed, you're like, you know, the examiner, if it's a check
ride, the examiner says, all right,well, let's set up for, and you're
like, I barely got through that.
now I got to twist turn to, I got todo all of the stuff now to set up for
this next one do all of this againwith a different type of approach.

(56:41):
It's, it's a lot, it's a lot, it

Nick Smith (56:45):
It is.
Did I, I was curious to ask, like,'cause I heard this during my private
that like, you know, when people talkedabout IFR, like whether or not you
should get it or how, I feel like there'sthis almost like, uh, belief that like.
Because IFR is a little bit lesshours and stuff in terms of, of the

(57:06):
training that like, it's, it's easier.
Or I remember thinking that, thatit's like, it's a lot of being told
that, Oh yeah, it's a lot easier.
You'll get it done real quick.
I guess.
Fine.
Like,
and then when I,

Bill (57:18):
It can be quicker.

Nick Smith (57:19):
right.
Yeah, exactly.
But like to say that, but I feel likea lot of students kind of think like,
Oh, the ground is just going to be.
You know, easy peasy.
Like I'm just going to be relearned.

Bill (57:32):
I mean,

Nick Smith (57:33):
Yeah.

Bill (57:33):
I guess some of the weather stuff is just building on what
you did in the private, but it is

Nick Smith (57:39):
Right.

Bill (57:40):
I mean, you, now you're going to be diving into icing.
You're going to be,

Nick Smith (57:44):
It's all about the details in IFR.

Bill (57:46):
Yep.

Nick Smith (57:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Bill (57:48):
Mm

Nick Smith (57:49):
um, and because, and it makes sense because if you aren't
detailed and you're not on, you know,you're not flying the right speed,
you're not, you don't have the rightturn rate, you know, and, and you're
flying IMC like, yeah, yeah, you haveto, you have to be on the details.
And so,

Bill (58:09):
it makes you

Nick Smith (58:10):
yeah.
Yeah.

Bill (58:11):
a better pilot and part of it.
Honestly, part of it is yourealize, like we were talking about
before, how little, you know, andhow little experience you have.

Nick Smith (58:23):
Yeah,

Bill (58:23):
one of the things that you do as part of the instrument training is, um,
not everybody does it, but I think it'san important thing for an instructor to
do is, hey, you know, close your eyes.
And follow my instructions, you know,

Nick Smith (58:41):
yeah,
yeah.

Bill (58:42):
do this now, just make a nice level turn to the left, make it,
you know, and you realize, man, Ihave no idea what attitude I'm in.
You, you open your eyes andyou're in some wacky attitude.
Nothing like you thoughtyou would be in and.

Nick Smith (58:58):
Mm-hmm

Bill (58:59):
of like, I mean, everybody's probably done that
as part of their instruction.
It's very illustrative, it's kind oflike that across the board on all the
concepts you have to know about flyingis you start to realize, man, I'm,
thought I was this big, bad pilot.
I am this, you know,

Nick Smith (59:18):
Yeah,

Bill (59:19):
little baby just learning how to do some of this stuff.
And I think that alone makesyou a way better pilot.

Nick Smith (59:27):
yeah, yeah.
The, yeah, the humbling part of it.
Yeah, absolutely.

Bill (59:31):
just learning all these new concepts about weather, learning all
these new things about how to readforecasts that you just brushed over
before, um, understanding peopletalk about how, you know, the private
is really kind of, learning all thebasics about a little of everything and
getting good enough to start learning.
Right.
And that's, then you get yourprivate, then you do your

(59:52):
instrument and it's really kind ofwhole different set of concepts.
then you go back to commercial andit's like taking all that stuff you
did in private and really learninghow to control the airplane.
some people miss is you kind of reallyhave to learn how to control the airplane

(01:00:13):
In instrument, because you're going tohave to learn how exactly what it takes
exactly what power settings it's going totake to get a three degree descent along

Nick Smith (01:00:25):
Mm-hmm

Bill (01:00:26):
you know, whatever instrument approach you're doing, if it has
vertical guidance, for instance,you're really going to have to,
how do I set the airplane up tostay on this ILS or, you know, on

Nick Smith (01:00:39):
Yeah.
And then, yeah, or your,your wind changes, right?
You get a different headwind and now

Bill (01:00:45):
and figuring out that you've got to go past a couple of degrees
and then, oh, that's taking me left.
Of course.
So I'm going to come back a couple ofdegrees and kind of nailing in based
on the wind where you've got to beto stay on that localizer or stay on

Nick Smith (01:01:00):
mm-hmm

Bill (01:01:02):
Uh, when you're doing an approach and by the way, you have to do that
while managing your, your descentrate and while making sure you don't
get too low beyond where you'resupposed to be at that moment in time.
Oh, and while you're doingall of that, brief the plate.
Well, you would have briefed the platebefore that, but you, you got to do that.
And then while you're getting ready tocome in, you've got to stay, um, you,

(01:01:24):
you got to keep doing your announcementson the CTAF or, you know, if you're
not, you know, If you're no longerwith approach or if you're doing
practice approaches at a non controlledairport, you got to make your CTAF
calls and you get it's it's it's a lot.
It makes you a better pilot becauseyou're doing a lot more with a
lot less information coming in.
You're not just lookingout of the airplane.

(01:01:45):
It makes you realize how muchinformation we discern from our eyes.
we're flying.

Nick Smith (01:01:52):
Mm-hmm

Bill (01:01:53):
And now
all of a

Nick Smith (01:01:53):
Yeah.

Bill (01:01:54):
have
that.
So you gotta be putting your eyeseverywhere inside the cockpit
and putting your mind everywhere.
You got to make those CTAFcalls while you don't get.
off of your descent, or you don't bustyour, your altitude that you have to stay
at wherever you're at in the approach.
And you know, all these little things,it just makes you do more with less
information and with less time.

(01:02:17):
it makes you a better pilot for that.
I

Nick Smith (01:02:19):
Yeah.
And.

Bill (01:02:20):
who's a private pilot should get their instrument rating.
Honestly, I don't think it

Nick Smith (01:02:24):
Yeah, it really does make,

Bill (01:02:25):
make you a better pilot, even if you never fly in the system.
In my

Nick Smith (01:02:31):
yeah,

Bill (01:02:31):
humble opinion,

Nick Smith (01:02:33):
no, I would agree.
And, uh, I was just recording beforewe started this, uh, audio lesson
on, uh, in the IFR ground school onflying the glideslope and localizer.
And I was just thinking as you're goingthrough and you got to do this and you
got this, and I was thinking, Oh yeah.
And as you get closer to the ground,the localizer gets more sensitive.

(01:02:55):
It's like,
just like this stress test, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like cheese.

Bill (01:03:02):
yeah, and not just the, the localizer, but the glide slope too.

Nick Smith (01:03:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's crazy.

Bill (01:03:08):
Yep, that is correct.
So I've got a,
I've got a question for you.
This might be a challengingquestion and then we'll wrap it up.

Nick Smith (01:03:17):
Okay.

Bill (01:03:17):
Um,
what do you think with both of yourground schools that you've done so far?
What are the most challenging conceptsor topics that you've had to cover?
And maybe the ones you think aboutrevising all the time, because they seem
to be challenging for your students.

Nick Smith (01:03:34):
Oh yeah, that's a good question.
Um, so VORs, I think is, uh, VORs, HSI,when you get into instrument, um, those
are always difficult for students.
They were difficult for me.
Uh, you know, when I learned them.

(01:03:54):
Um,

Bill (01:03:55):
don't, I was, I was going to try and not to interrupt you, but
now that you said that I, I've got

Nick Smith (01:03:59):
but no

Bill (01:04:00):
So with the VORs, don't you sometimes do this little thing?
Because this happens to me too,in the airplane, you're trying to
teach somebody or show somebody.
Hell, yeah, this is how it works.
And then all of a sudden you go.

Nick Smith (01:04:12):
yeah.

Bill (01:04:13):
a minute.
Um,

Nick Smith (01:04:15):
Mm-hmm

Bill (01:04:16):
yeah, that's right.
That's right.
I got it right.
Because even now it's like the reverse.
I don't know.
You can always get yourself sideways, pun

Nick Smith (01:04:26):
No.
Yeah.
It's one of those things,

Bill (01:04:29):
too much.
And then you're like, wait,
did I just mess that up?

Nick Smith (01:04:35):
it's one of those things that no matter how, and it's why the,
you know, it's why people hate viewersand, and why at its core, even though
we, we still are gonna use it and thefa is gonna keep a minimum number of UR
'cause it's a good backup.
But even though all that's trueand we have to learn it, it is a.
Fundamentally kind of a poor systembecause no matter how much, you

(01:05:00):
know, or how smart you are, you canstill screw it up because of that.
That just easy.
Oops.
Oh yeah, no, it's actually this way.
Like, uh, the reverse sensing stuff.
Yeah.
So that's always difficult.
Um, Density altitude a little bit, right?
Um, just the concept in general, like,um, wait, when do we use this altitude?

(01:05:23):
Why do we care about this?
All the way it goes up.
Like, I don't get it.
And so density altitude is a tough one.
Um,
what else?
Oh, I mentioned the one before just,uh, the effects of temperature and
pressure, uh, in the atmosphere andhow that relates to your altimeter.

(01:05:46):
That one's always confusing and, you know.
The altimeter as well.
Like, so when you, you know, when youchange your altimeter setting and the,
you know, you're, you're increasing it,like what that does to the indicated
altitude, that's reversed to ifyou're actually sensing it, right.
So like if the pressure goes up ordown outside and that's what your

(01:06:07):
altimeter senses is going to change,you know, if, if the pressure goes
up, it's going to go down, right.

Bill (01:06:12):
reversed on that.
Yep.

Nick Smith (01:06:14):
But then if you are inputting it, it's not the same thing, but because
Cause you have to teach people that whenyou're changing that, you're changing
the reference to the actual pressure.
So there's an equation kind of, you know,your altimeter is taking the difference
between what you're setting as thereference altitude and the actual one.
Uh, so just concepts like that,that, um, you gotta get to the

(01:06:38):
bottom of, um, are the, are the.
The toughest ones.
Yeah.

Bill (01:06:42):
Awesome.

Nick Smith (01:06:42):
Yeah.

Bill (01:06:43):
All

Nick Smith (01:06:43):
Yeah.

Bill (01:06:44):
Well, anything, um, anything you want to tell the listeners about the site?
You got any discountcodes going on right now?
Anything like that?

Nick Smith (01:06:53):
Uh, so we have a lot of free resources like always.
And, uh, one thing we starteddoing, um, so I ultimately, right.
My goal the whole time was tobe in terms of value and price.
Just be, we have the most value andwe're still at that lower price level.

(01:07:13):
So that

Bill (01:07:14):
You don't need the

Nick Smith (01:07:15):
what.
Right.
You don't need the discounts.
It's just there.
It's less work for me.
Right.
I don't have to do allthese campaigns and stuff.
So I believe that we're there.
Um, obviously we're not perfect andnot, like I said, we're polishing it
up, making it even better, but we dodo one discount and it's kind of, I
kind of call it like a, um, Kind of akick in the butt, get you go and, uh,

(01:07:37):
encourage, you know, action for people.
So when people get our free resources,whether it's like our how to become a
pilot and save money email course, or ourfree study guide, if they download that
free resource, which are on our website.
Part time pilot.
com.
Um, we give you an offerfor the first three days.
Um, you get 50 off, so it'sjust kind of, it works for me.

(01:08:01):
Uh, it's a good marketing tactic as well.
You know, you kind of put a timelimit on something and people, uh,
will act more a little bit, but also.
You know, it kind of, youknow, promotes action and and
getting getting the crown done.
And one question I was gonna askyou if we can, uh, in IFR, did you
do ground school before you flew?
Or did you do at the same time?

(01:08:22):
Or how did you?

Bill (01:08:24):
I did it, um, kind
of did it before, but Iwas flying while I did it.
So,

Nick Smith (01:08:32):
Okay.
Yeah.

Bill (01:08:34):
I, I was kind of.
Engrossing myself in aviation at the time.
And so I was flying three,three or four times a week.
then when I wasn't flying, I wasfinishing up and it was because I
was going fast at the beginning.
um, normally what I would do andwhat I kind of did for CFI was

(01:08:56):
I, I did my two tests, my groundand my two tests beforehand.
Uh, and then kind of started flying.
that's what I would normally do.
Uh, but for my instrument, I kind of didthem at the same time, but I, I finished
my tests, I, I took, I took both tests.
I took the CFII at the same timebecause it's almost the same.

(01:09:19):
Um, it's almost exactly the same content.
As you know, the instrument airplane.
um, so I took both those tests earlyon in my flying, if that makes sense.

Nick Smith (01:09:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah.
So because with private pilot, we alwaysrecommend students do ground school
first and get that base knowledge.
It's just going to, you're going tohave more time to just focus on flying.
You're going to be more ahead ofthe aircraft, things like that.
But with IFR, it's a little bit more,especially if students go straight
from private to IFR, it's a littlebit more difficult to tell them to

(01:09:54):
like stop flying and do the groundbecause you want to keep that momentum.
Like you said, it's a skill thatif you don't use it, you lose it.
Yeah.

Bill (01:10:02):
flight anyway.

Nick Smith (01:10:04):
Right.
So it's a little bit harder to do withIFR, but I still, I've been telling
students to, you know, maybe continueflying and start your IFR lessons,
but maybe give yourself, maybe start alittle slower on the flight lessons and
give yourself a time to digest some ofthat ground and the procedural stuff.
And then really.

Bill (01:10:23):
for private and

Nick Smith (01:10:24):
Yeah.

Bill (01:10:24):
your private and you want to go straight into instrument, maybe fly once
a week for a couple of weeks while youspend all that extra time on studying and,

Nick Smith (01:10:33):
Yeah.

Bill (01:10:34):
um, doing the ground school and taking the test and then go back to
two times a week or three times a week.
You know, something like that.
I think that's a great strategy.

Nick Smith (01:10:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Cool.
Well, this has been really fun.
Thanks for having me on.

Bill (01:10:47):
to catch up, Nick, and you're doing great

Nick Smith (01:10:49):
I need to get a better studio background.
Like you have got thebacklight and all that stuff.
I got Halloween decorations.

Bill (01:10:57):
Hey man, it's that time of year.

Nick Smith (01:11:00):
Yeah,

Bill (01:11:01):
I like it.
All right.
Well, thanks again for joining us andI'm sure we'll catch up in another,
hopefully it's not two more years,but in a little while and you'll have
some additional offerings on the site.

Nick Smith (01:11:14):
absolutely.
Yeah.
Thank you.
It's a pleasure.
Appreciate it.

Bill (01:11:17):
Well, it real and, um, keep showing your mistakes and, and being real.
And I think you're goingto keep doing really well.
So thanks again.
And we'll talk soon.

Nick Smith (01:11:28):
Yeah.
Thank you.

Bill Williams's video recording (01:11:31):
Well, that'll do it for this week's episode.
Remember to reach out to me, howeveryou decide to, and stay tuned
for a bunch of new stuff hittingthe feed in the coming weeks.
By the way, I am so gladto have completed my CFI.
I haven't started teaching regularlyyet but what a ride that was.
Someday I'll have to do anepisode on that epic check

(01:11:54):
ride, but that day is not today.
It was fun and I learned a ton,but I'm really glad it's over.
Even an old guy like me canlearn new tricks, I guess.
Remember, if you just stick with it,you can become a pilot, or a better
pilot, or Get a rating or anothercertificate or even become a CFI.

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