June 21, 2025 • 60 mins
In Episode 84, we join Bill and Kent again for another Beyond the Checkride segment. In this one we talk about getting out there on the proverbial open road, and going places with GA, in whatever airplane you have access to. Hope you enjoy our discussion on cross country flying and expanding your comfort zone a bit.
Links:
- Video of this Episode - Video version of Episode of SPC #84.
Hope you enjoy the episode and thanks for listening! Visit the SPC website at https://studentpilotcast.com. Please keep the feedback coming. You can use the contact form on the website or send email to bill at student pilot cast dot com. The theme song for our episodes is "To Be an Angel" by the band, "Uncle Seth".
Legal Notice: Remember, any instruction that you hear in this podcast was meant for me and me alone in the situation that we happened to be in at the time. Please do not try to apply anything you see or hear in this episode or any other episode to your own flying. If you have questions about any aspect of your flying, please consult a qualified CFI.
Copyright 2008-2025, studentpilotcast.com and Bill Williams
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back.
SPC listeners.
We're coming today with a newBeyond the check write episode
that's gonna have you going places.
Stick around for episode 84of the student pilot cast.
Just go.
(00:39):
Alright, everyone turns out being afull-time flight instructor and working
at a tech company as well doesn't leavea lot of time for editing podcasts.
But after a short hiatus, we're back withanother Beyond the check write episode.
This one's probably been about 99%done for a while, so it was time to
finally kick this one out of the nest.
In this episode, Kent and Italk about some ideas about
(01:02):
going places in airplanes.
Probably one of the reasons many of usgot into aviation in the first place.
So enjoy this episode, and asusual, let us know what ideas you
have about cross country flying.
Enjoy.
All right.
(01:22):
Welcome back everybody toanother beyond the check ride.
glad you're with us, Kent.
Welcome back.
How you been?
I am great.
It's always a great day whenyou get to talk about flying.
Oh, I couldn't agree more.
And I think you've got a really cooltopic today for us, beyond the check
(01:42):
ride about, you know, something that'snear and dear to my heart going places.
So what's the topic for today?
The topic for today isusing GA for travel.
and you know, I think it's near and dearto a lot of pilots hearts because I think
that a lot of people have this in mindwhen they become pilots, you know, they
(02:03):
think about how can I get around thecountry and the world to some extent.
Easier and, you know, have morefreedom doing it, have a much
better experience doing it.
and so, I mean, I know that for me, itwas all about higher, farther, faster
when I first started learning how to fly.
(02:24):
And that was becauseI wanted to go places.
How about you?
Yeah, for sure.
going places was alwayspart of what I wanted to do.
of course, since then I've found fun inan airplane in a lot of different ways.
Some of the most fun I've had is in lightsport airplanes that weren't really good.
(02:45):
Go places airplanes.
But yes, that was always part ofthe dream and part of the reason
to become a pilot and still is.
I agree,
Yeah.
and you know, right off the bat,you, you brought something up that I
definitely want to cover and that'swhat airplanes you can use to go places.
(03:08):
And the real answer is any ofthem with, with an asterisk.
I will, there are.
I think the most uncomfortablecross country flight I ever had
was, I flew from central Iowa tonorthern Arkansas in a Citabria and
it was an old Citabria with an oldinterior and it was not comfortable.
(03:31):
And, but I mean, it was a fun flightcause I was at, you know, 500 AGL
pretty much the whole time and, youknow, scaring horses and whatnot.
So, it was definitely still a fun flight,but it was not the most comfortable
flight and that's not the airplane Iwould buy if I wanted to go places often.
yep, yep.
And we've, we've talked about this beforemy, you know, my son works for a company
(03:54):
here locally, that's got eight extras,that he helps kind of take care of.
That be a hard plane to go placesinto, lots of fuel stops and heart,
you know, no autopilot and hard tomaintain, you know, altitude heading.
I mean, it's just, you
(04:14):
Yeah,
but
airplanes in general are not greatfor cross country because of course
they're designed to not be stable.
And why would you put an autopilot in one?
I mean, I know that's the thingpeople do because they They do
still like to go places and theyalso like to turn upside down.
So there are some, maybe more popularon something like the aerobatic Bonanza
(04:38):
or the Marchetti or something like that.
That's kind of a combinationgo places and fun airplane.
But, yeah, I, I remember years ago, Ihad a couple of friends, one of whom
had previously owned a Pitts and oneof whom owned a Pitts at the time and
flew it across half the country toget to a fly in that we were all at.
(05:01):
And, the guy who had it.
And had just hopped out after flying, Idon't know, like a thousand miles in the
thing asks the guy who used to have one.
He says, how do you fly aPitts across the country?
And the other guy goes,are you effing nuts?
You don't.
(05:23):
Yeah, Exactly.
yes, that is an example of a plane.
That's not great, but I guesswhat we're, what we're really
getting at more is right.
I mean, but you mentioned the lightsport and, Part of why this subject
came up for me, is I've recentlytalked to several different people
about flying GA cross country.
(05:45):
And one of them is a guy whoowned a 172 and I think maybe
hadn't even thought about it.
And there's nothing wrong withflying a 172 cross country.
It's maybe not the best ship thereis, but if it's what you got.
Yeah.
you don't have to havea speed demon to do it.
and so what if it takes you longer?
(06:06):
That's more hours in the log book.
It's
Yep.
Now, obviously there, there is a, there'sa balance there, especially if you have
a spouse who's with you or somethinglike that, they may not want to sit
in a little airplane for that long.
So, you know, if you're looking forwhat to buy, Yeah, buy something that
fits your missions as well as possible.
(06:26):
But if you already have an airplane,even if it's not one, that's super
conducive to cross country travel.
I mean, there are people who fly from theWest coast into, Oshkosh every year in
airplanes that, uh, in fact, one of thepeople that I, I love watching on YouTube.
Xyla Foxlin, she has, I think aLuscombe, you know, and she's based
(06:49):
in LA and she flew it to Oshkosh thissummer and posted a video about it.
And yeah, it took her four daysto get there, but you know what?
She had a great time.
So, uh, and that's really what it's about.
Um, If you're really going to be, youknow, if you're really gung ho to use GA
for travel, there are lots and lots ofgreat airplanes for travel via GA, but
(07:11):
just because you don't have one doesn'tmean that you shouldn't consider it.
and we were kind of talking earlier thatmy friend with a one 72, who I, I'm not
sure if he even thought about taking it.
when I kind of encouraged him to, itwas because he was asking about renting
an airplane at his destination so thathe could take family members flying.
(07:33):
And I went, you own aperfectly good airplane.
If you thought about taking that,you know, there were, there were
some other circumstances there to,led to him not taking his airplane.
And I, Given those, I would haveagreed with that, but you know,
there's nothing that says you can'ttake a one Luscombe or a light sport
or whatever cross country as well.
(07:54):
So,
um, but yeah, if it's going to beyour mission, definitely buy for it.
And the light sport I have the mosttime in had a great autopilot in it.
Yeah.
slow, but fine.
The biggest problem with the lightsport is you just can't take much stuff
with you and that's people and things.
(08:16):
So, a lot of times when you're traveling,you want to take some stuff with you.
so yeah, you got to make the,make sure the airplane fits the
mission, but I I'm with you.
Anything can look anywhere.
Any airplane is a cross country airplane.
If you got the time.
Right.
Yep.
Yep.
I'm trying to think, Imean, I, I know that.
(08:37):
From Wisconsin, mostly I have flown anarcher to Kentucky and Arkansas and you
know, I've flown the 182, fixed gear182, literally all over the country,
East coast, West coast, Gulf coast.
I think I landed that thing insomewhere between 30 and 35 states.
So yeah, you don't needa speed demon to do this.
(09:02):
so, getting back to, why you do it.
Well, It's part of the freedomthat we have as pilots to be
able to do that sort of thing.
and airplanes are with someexceptions, of course, like we said,
they're great traveling machines.
And, I do like to tell people that,flying is always an adventure.
(09:23):
It just might not be theadventure you had planned on.
That's right.
but I consider myself extremelylucky in life to have had so many
experiences in a small airplane, thatI just wouldn't trade for the world.
And, so part of the whole point ofdoing this episode is to encourage
(09:44):
people to get out there and do it.
now as pilots, we sometimes liketo justify ourselves, right?
And this is where, especially like Isaid, if you're going with a spouse
or something like that, that mightchange how you calculate things.
or if you're going with small childrenor, you know, there are asterisks all
(10:06):
over the place in this episode, but we'regoing to talk about some of those things
and how you can do them successfullyand, have everybody have a good time.
so one of the primary thingsthat people talk about is cost.
Okay.
and generally driving and flying theairlines are thought of as cheaper.
(10:30):
There's a reason that Thatis the thought process.
And that is that often they are cheaper.
but, you know, just a little bitago we were talking about, a leg
that I flew in the Mooney from NewMexico to Wisconsin, and I actually
burned less fuel flying the airplanethan I would have driving the car.
(10:52):
Yeah.
And you did that flightin less than five hours,
Yes.
Yes.
I. definitely burn less fuel than the carwould have burned at 200 miles an hour.
Yes.
So, so first of all, I wouldencourage those of you who feel the
need to justify things via cost.
(11:12):
look at all the costs because GAdoes come out ahead sometimes.
And, especially if you're lookingat kind of more of a mid range trip,
I would say, I guess the way I haveput it once was anywhere from 150 miles
to two times whatever the cruise speedtimes your, cruise speed of your airplane
(11:36):
times the endurance of your bladder.
You know, where can you get in two legs.
you know, when you start having,
Hey Kent, I, I gotta say, I am justsomehow not surprised that you have a
rule of thumb for, trip making like that.
I love it.
I love it.
well, that one I don'tactually use myself.
(11:58):
I go, I go wherever, but you know,I, I know that some of those longer
trips are, are harder to justify,especially for family members.
The
so,
me less right now is if you said,I also have a pneumonic for a trip.
No, I'm just kidding.
but yeah, so the, the mid range tripsare the ones where GA really shines.
(12:22):
you know, especially if you're goingsomeplace that is not an airline hub.
Yeah, because, you know, cost isone thing, but there's a lot of
cost savings and flexibility too.
I think you're probably goingto talk about that, but,
flexibility of time and place.
(12:42):
Thanks.
Uh, can bring with it a lotof cost savings, that you need
to take into account as well.
yeah.
you know, a big one is hotel rooms.
Since you mentioned flexibility,there are plenty of times where I
can fly a leg or maybe two home.
after a day of having fun somewhere.
(13:05):
And I saved myself ahotel room that night.
I would have had to fly out in theairlines the next day, or I would have
had to have one less day of fun orwhatever I was doing at my destination.
So, you know, there's, there'splenty of times where, in fact, I
would say most times, Airline flyingkind of takes up your whole day.
(13:27):
whereas I've had work trips where I workedthe whole day and then fly home and you
know, we've had, pleasure vacations wherewe're able to get some last minute play in
and then hop in the airplane and get homeand not need another hotel that night.
And so, definitely consider whetheryou're going to need another night or
two in a hotel and how much that's goingto cost you if you fly on the airlines.
(13:50):
car, things.
Yeah.
And of course the airlines love tocharge fees for bags and you know,
this and that and the other stuff.
And, and of course then thereis also your, your time and
your enjoyment of the trip.
being able to get somewherefaster is really nice.
Not having to deal withthe hassles of TSA.
(14:12):
And, one of the things that made mereally start thinking about this hard.
very early on.
I think it was the samesummer I got my private.
I went to my cousin's wedding and I wasalready in Minneapolis for other reasons.
Hopped on an airplanethere, flew to Albuquerque.
(14:34):
and of course to get on the airplane,you know, you have to go through
all the regular airport stuff.
parking and security and check inand checking bags and all that.
And, you know, even though a lot of peopledon't travel with checked luggage anymore
because of the fees, well, okay, so youdidn't check it, but now they make you
(14:56):
gate check it and then you still haveto wait at the other end and all that.
So there's, there's timeinvolved in all of those things.
And so, you know, you haveto consider that time.
But then I got to the other end and,you know, Takes a while to get off the
airplane, and then I spent 45 minuteswaiting for bags at Baggage Claim, spent
(15:16):
another 45 minutes in line at the rentalcar counter, drove an hour and a half to a
town that had a perfectly good GA airport,and I went, why did I just do this?
I could have gotten myselfhere just as fast in an Archer.
So.
Yeah.
(15:37):
That was kind of a, an eyeopeningmoment for me to, to have
that experience and go, okay.
You know, GA is really usable fortravel, even if you don't have the,
the fanciest, fastest airplane.
So, definitely consider all that timeand, you know, the, the difference
in experiences between those as well.
(15:58):
So if the actual numbers don't completelywork out in your favor, consider that
it might be worth a couple hundred bucksto see some really cool sites and to not
have somebody groping you in the TSA line.
Not to mention getting somegreat experience as a pilot.
yes.
and you know, Cross country flights arethe best learning flying that you can have
(16:22):
without an instructor aboard, I believe,and I really think that they're a great
way to increase your skills as a pilot,you know, to get out of the nest and
see new terrain and deal with differentcontrollers and all that and, I mean, the
FAA has done a good job of designing theNational Airspace System so that things
are familiar in any place you go, butthere's still enough that's different
(16:48):
that it's, you know, you always learnsomething when you go on a long trip, but
you also just, you get to see new sites.
And man, I cannot even begin to describesome of the amazing sites that I've
been able to see from a small airplane.
Yeah.
So
(17:13):
awesome.
so as far as the cost for flyingGA, you know, fuel is the big one.
you do need to look at fees.
you know, if you fly into Orlandointernational, which I have, you're
going to pay some fees there.
so be sure you call ahead to the FBOand at least, you know, find out what
(17:34):
those fees are and what you're in for.
but there are, you know, if, if you'rean accountant, you might think, well,
I need to amortize this and divide thatacross the hours and blah, blah, blah.
and all of that,
Here's, here's how I look at itwhen I'm deciding whether or not.
I should financially be able tojustify going somewhere in my airplane.
(18:00):
I do not divide the entire cost bythe number of hours in the year.
If you do that, you'llnever fly the airplane.
And if you don't fly the airplane,why do you have the airplane?
The way I look at it is.
The first hour I fly every year costsme somewhere between 12 and 28, 000.
(18:25):
I don't want to get anymore accurate than that.
And I'm sure that, you know, everyone'scosts are going to vary, you know, East
coast hangers are really expensive, forexample, and so, but anyway, the first
hour you fly every year is horrendouslyexpensive because, you know, just
the fact that you have an airplane,you're going to be paying for a hanger.
(18:47):
You're going to be paying insurance.
You're going to be paying for an annualinspection, et cetera, et cetera.
But if you look at it thisway and say, okay, Okay.
My first hour costs me 20 grand, all theother ones cost me, you know, 60, right.
cause really gas and, you know, ifyou decide that you want to keep an
(19:10):
engine reserve fund, you know, youmight want to consider that as well.
But to me, the cost of travel isstrictly the variable costs, the
incremental costs of flying the airplane.
Because, you know, just the decision youmade to own an airplane, is what cost you
that first 20 grand or whatever it is.
the more you fly it, the cheaper it is.
(19:32):
and that's absolutely true.
Airplanes love to fly.
They get cheaper to maintainthe more hours you put on them.
And so by looking at it that way and beingable to justify trips means that, you
know, my average per hour price goes downjust because I'm using the airplane more.
So,
Interesting.
(19:54):
I should have mentioned at the top here.
just where I'm coming from.
Now.
It's been 21 years since I got my privateand I have used single engine piston
airplanes to travel to around 40 states.
I'll have to actually count themsometime and see if I've hit 40 yet.
I know it's at least 35.
(20:16):
like I said, East coast, Westcoast and Gulf coast being
based here in the Midwest.
and I have been to the Bahamas, so I havedone lots of travel by GA. I know I have
at least 2400 hours across country time.
So, it's, it's a thing I love to do.
And I, I think everybodyshould give it a shot.
(20:38):
I couldn't agree more.
So, now we talked about, beyondthe check ride and how this is
a thing that I think a very highpercentage of pilots want to do.
And of course the, the nextthing is always, well, I have
to get my instrument rating.
I can't do that until Iget my instrument rating.
(21:00):
And yes, I have my instrument ratingand I've had it most of that time,
but you do not have to have aninstrument rating to fly cross country.
you do need to have moreweather flexibility.
If you don't have your instrumentrating, you know, there
will be times where you get.
stuck at some little podunk placefor, you know, days potentially.
(21:21):
that sort of thing doesn't tend to happenwhen you have an instrument rating,
but that's also kind of a horror story.
Yeah, that's true.
Um,
the one you expected.
yes, I, I. I know some guys whohave a great story about driving
hundreds of miles home in a U Haulbecause it was the only thing they
(21:42):
were available to rent in whateverlittle podunk town they ended up in.
so yeah, you, you might have a, anadventure, but you'll definitely
get a good story out of it.
but even though I, I w I wasgoing to say, this is kind of a,
a horror story that gets repeatedthroughout this industry that keeps
people from using their airplanes.
(22:04):
You know, I mentioned flyingto Kentucky in an archer.
I did that that first fallthat I had my private.
so no instrument rating.
I flew the 182 to Texaswithout an instrument rating.
I went on a gigantic 5800 nauticalmile adventure over the course of
three weeks, put 63 hours on that 182.
(22:26):
I had the instrument rating for that, butsince I was out west, like the whole point
of it was to, you know, See the sites.
And so I was IFR for about.
to get my instrument.
After
I mean, it took me, I thinkit took me three years.
(22:47):
Well,
were three years that I got somegood cross country flight in.
Well, thank you, but I don't think so.
Um, But yeah, I mean, in those threeyears, like I said, I've done, I did
some really good long cross countries,without an instrument rating.
And I did that huge West coastadventure, like I said, with an
(23:08):
instrument rating, but I was IFR formaybe 20 minutes of that entire trip.
and it was certainly, you know,the IFR, if I had waited maybe
two hours, it would have been.
The weather would have been through.
So,
All right.
I'm going to, I'm going totake a slight, tangent here
(23:28):
okay.
to ask you, what'shopefully a quick question.
If you are traveling somewhere.
And the weather's okay, youfile IFR, or do you fly VFR?
Wow.
That is a big old, it depends.
I mean, that's the answer toevery question in aviation.
(23:51):
It depends.
Good point.
There are so many variablesinvolved and it really does.
Yeah, there's, I've done plenty of both.
you know, especially out west.
I love being VFR.
and it's conducive to VFR,when you're in the mountains
because the air is pretty dry.
And, you know, there'srarely a whole lot of clouds.
(24:13):
And when there are clouds, you mightnot want to be flying IFR either.
Right,
You you, have a lot morelimited options when you're,
when you're out that way, IFR.
And of course, if you make a mistake, theconsequences can be a lot more severe.
well, I do want to talk about theflip side and that is, when I would go
(24:36):
IFR, even if the weather is, is fine.
And usually that's for operationalreasons like, you know, if you're going
somewhere in the Washington DC area, Ifeel like it's a lot easier to fly there.
IFR, things are generally the same.
(24:58):
I believe you still have to take the,the SIFRA familiarization course and
learn about all the ways that they'regoing to shoot you down and all the
ways that they're going to warn youthat they're going to shoot you down
if you go in the wrong place out there.
But, and of course what the procedures areso that they don't don't shoot you down,
but really, the, the key there is that theeasiest thing to do if you're not familiar
(25:20):
with those procedures and, you know,because you're based far away is just
file IFR and, you know, make sure you stayIFR, all the way to the ground and you
pick up IFR before you get off the ground.
And then pretty much nothing's different.
so that sort of situation is one example.
The other one is like if you're flyinginto a primary class Bravo airport, or any
(25:45):
other sort of really, really busy airport.
it's just a lot easier becausethey know you're coming, they
know how to deal with you.
You know, one of my flight instructorshad an incident where he was trying to
fly VFR into Chicago O'Hare because the,he was taking some charter pilots to pick
up an airplane that had been left thereand the controllers at O'Hare at the time
(26:13):
literally had no idea how to work him.
You know, because O'Hare, you know,they're, they've gotten so much better,
but they used to be so, I hate tosay anti GA, but they really were
focused.
right.
All, all one 21 all the time.
(26:35):
Right.
And so he ended upcircling outside the Bravo.
And I think he had to call on sixdifferent frequencies before someone
finally got on the phone and calledthe controller that he needed to call.
Let's tell them this, you know, this ishow you work a VFR aircraft because, you
(26:58):
know, they just weren't used to it at all.
so yeah, it goes a lot smootherwhen you're tangling with, you
know, a whole bunch of jets.
If you just operate theway they do, you know.
Learn how to fly a fast approach,file IFR, and then just go on in.
and I generally don't goplaces like that on purpose.
(27:21):
Right.
I tend to avoid Bravo's because they'reexpensive and you know, there's a
lot of traffic to deal with and,
takes a
and
one of the time advantages that we have.
with GA is being able to landcloser to our actual destination.
so yeah, it's, it's rare that I, Ifly GA and do a primary Bravo, but
(27:43):
you know, I've flown into Baltimore,Washington international several times.
I've flown into Orlando international,New Orleans, and a few others.
I'd have to sit down and.
figure out the whole list.
But, yeah, that's, that's a situationwhere I would probably file IFR.
So I think we, we pretty wellbeat that question to death.
(28:07):
Yeah.
so I, you know, one of the notes thatI put in here for the show on IFR vs.
VFR was just, do you have to be IFR?
No, go ahead.
Fly those long cross countries.
VFR.
(28:28):
just have that extra flexibility sothat you can make good decisions.
is it helpful to havean instrument rating?
Absolutely.
you know, there's plenty of times where,you know, there's a overcast layer at a
thousand, 1500 feet, something like that.
and it's only 500 or a thousand feetthick, and it's going to keep VFR
(28:49):
pilots sitting on the ground for, likeI said, potentially a couple of days.
whereas if you're an IFR pilot, you just.
Blast up through itand you're on your way.
so I would say if traveling is going tobe a goal, then the instrument rating
should be a goal, but not a requirement.
And I do have some friends who have flownall over the country for years and years
(29:09):
and never got their instrument ratings.
So, definitely don't let the lackof an instrument rating be something
that stops you from trying it.
one little,
Oh boy, here we go again.
I have another rule of thumb.
that's related to all this.
basically it's, it's the 1, 110 rule.
(29:32):
and that is that if you're goingon a thousand mile trip and you
have to go 100 miles off course inthe middle, it only actually adds
about 10 miles to the trip distance.
something that blows people's minds, huh?
yeah,
yeah.
And, it's just a, if nothing else,it's a reminder to keep flexibility in
(29:57):
mind, you don't have to go direct from.
Milwaukee, Wisconsin to Houston, you know,
you can go well off course in themiddle and really not affect the length
of the trip significantly at all.
And so, you know, you have a luxury onthe longer trips of being able to say,
(30:18):
I don't really like that weather there.
So I'm going to go overthat way and go around it.
And hey, as a bonus, if that'sa trip you've done before,
now you get to see new stuff.
Yeah.
It also gives you flexibilityto find cheaper fuel
for
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So, that kind of leads us intoplanning and how we do that.
(30:42):
specifically, I would say the processI follow is to, you know, look at my
departure and destination airports.
You know, my departure is where I'm based.
My destination is, almost alwaysgoing to be the closest paved runway
to the actual spot I'm trying to go.
(31:02):
I don't try to avoid grass runways.
I just don't find a whole lot of them inthe places that I'm actually trying to go.
You know, they tend to be more rural.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just the, you know, if youthink about where they are in
relation to population centers,which are, you know, the, the more.
(31:26):
population a place has, the morelikely you're going to be to go there.
not that I'm going to New York City onevery trip or anything like that, but,
you know, if I'm going to visit friendsor relatives, unless they're living on
a farm in the middle of nowhere, youknow, they're living near other people.
And so it's
even then
a paved runway close by.
Right.
(31:47):
You know, it's, it would beinteresting to know how many counties
in the U. S. don't have that.
Have a paved runway anywhere.
most
as, as, I don't want to say unhealthy,but maybe as malnourished as G.
A. S. There are still lots andlots of airports in this country.
And, you know, I'm Very thankful for that.
(32:08):
so yeah, generally that's going to be,where I'm going is the, the nearest
paved runway, unless there's some reasonto, to go somewhere else nearby, but
I'm always aiming to get as close asI can to my destination in between.
Boy, you have a million options.
And so the first thing I do usuallyis I, I start looking at, okay, how
(32:33):
many stops am I going to need or want?
and then I start working from there.
I also, I'm going to be looking at, isthere any terrain I want to go around or
is there anything I want to see that mightbe a little ways off course, you know?
So, I guess before thestops, I probably need.
do those two things and kind ofdecide what I want my overall
(32:55):
course for the entire trip to be.
And then start looking at, okay,where am I going to fuel the plane?
Where am I going to fuel myself?
You know, I would say that often we willpack sandwiches and snacks and stuff like
that in the airplane when we go somewhere.
But if you're going on a longer trip whereyou're going to need more than one meal
(33:16):
along the way, you probably are going towant to, be able to stop someplace where
there's a convenient way to get some food,either on the airport or real close to it.
if I'm really going far away or ifmaybe, you know, we're working and
then leaving on the same day andwe're leaving in the evening, I'm
(33:37):
going to stay overnight somewhere.
You know, I kind of like tofigure out those overnight stops.
so, you know, I figureout that overall course.
and then the stops, andthen I do it all over again.
So that was plan A. And I would saynormally I want to have maybe three
(33:58):
plans, column A, B, and C. you mightwant to look at, okay, If I'm going
off course 100 miles in the middle thisway or 100 miles in the middle that way
for weather, what would that look like?
is there a different way around someof that terrain that I might want
to try out or something differentI might want to see along the way?
(34:19):
You know, look at some of those samethings, but on a completely different
route that's, significantly differentjust so that you have some options if
the weather, one or two of those routesturns out to be bad when you depart.
We have to stop and see theworld's largest rubber band ball.
We just have to.
Yeah.
(34:42):
after we're done recording this episode.
What's the weirdest thing I've seen?
I mean, I have seen, likeI said, many cool things.
and I want to point out that evenafter your A, B and C to be as safe
as possible on a cross country trip,you have to be willing to throw all
(35:05):
your plans away and come up with acompletely new one at the last minute.
While you're already flying sometimes.
Including turning aroundand 86 and the whole thing.
It's
Absolutely.
Yep.
There have to be those times where, youknow, and, and this will happen in the
middle of the trip, filled up with fuel.
(35:25):
And I think the weather is goingto be okay up ahead this way.
And while you take off and youkind of look around and just go,
Nope.
turn around, get on the ground, sitit out for a while, There are, you
know, lots of horror stories thatpeople talk about, but honestly, I've,
I've never pretty sure I have neverhad to make an unplanned overnight.
(35:52):
you know, yeah, and, you know,lots of people have, but,
but it,
horror stories as there are.
Yeah,
it always is.
But as many horror stories is people willtell about how awful G. A. Is for travel.
I've actually found it to behighly reliable, not 100%.
(36:14):
Nothing is 100%.
And you know, you needto be okay with that.
You need to be okay with some scheduleflexibility and all that sort of thing.
But it should definitely notstop you from doing anything.
Or at least planning to, so anyway, comeup with three big overall plans, you know,
(36:36):
at least down to the leg level and then.
You know, kind of go fromthere, be willing to throw them
out the window if you need to
Yeah.
That,
as you get closer.
about, that flexibility you'retalking about, I think is it.
You know, it's, it's a safetyfeature and, I, I think, you know,
(36:56):
we have to, we talk about, youknow, get their itis and things.
We have to be willing to be flexibleand throw out our plans all the
time if we want to stay safe.
Yeah.
And we'll get to that in a littlebit when we talk about more of
the safety aspects of this, but,planning wise, I think having three.
(37:18):
three main routes is,is a good thing to do.
and then finally, once you figure outwhich of those routes you're going to fly,
then you're probably going to want to getin your EFB and split them into separate
legs and plan each leg individuallywith, you know, approach and departure
procedures and that sort of thing.
(37:39):
you know, get in a little moredetail and plan out each leg
the way that you normally would.
It's kind of fun to do that anyway.
It is.
I mean, it's, it's a good exercise.
I, I really enjoy planning flightsand I've probably planned at least 10
flights for every flight I've ever taken.
Sometimes it's, it's just fun to dreamand you know, especially if you just blew
(38:05):
all your money on one trip and you can'ttake another one for a little bit, you
know, figure out what that next one isgoing to be and start a fantasy planning.
I've, I've planned at least 10 times moreflights than I've ever taken, for sure.
Yeah.
And I've got flights saved in my, infor flight that I have never taken
(38:27):
and may never take, I've got them inthere because I wanted to see what
it would be like to do that flight.
Yup.
I have a, I have a plan for an Atlanticcrossing that has been sitting in
my foreflight for at least a decade.
That's a doozy.
It is.
Well, hopefully somedayI'll be able to afford that.
(38:49):
That's, that's way beyond the check ride.
Yes.
Yes.
That's potentially beyond sanity, but
So let's talk a little bit aboutsome of those safety things.
And like you mentioned, flexibilityis, that is to me, the most
(39:10):
important way of staying safe.
If you are a person who absolutely has toadhere to plan A, don't travel by GA. Um,
Buy and airplane
ticket.
Yep.
and you know, there will be timeswhere that's your, your plan B,
even if you are planning to flyyourself, you know, get there.
(39:32):
Right.
This is, is a big deal.
there's a reason thatit has a name, you know?
And so, You know, what I generallylike to do to avoid that is to plan to
leave early enough that if there's aplace that I have to be at a specific
time, I just leave early enough in theairplane where, you know, let's say I go
(39:53):
to the airport, the airplane fails itsmag check and I'm not flying anywhere.
I want to be able to justget in the car and drive.
If I have to, so sometimesthat means, you know, you're
going to be leaving a day early
Yeah.
and what that means is that 99percent of the time you get an extra
day of vacation at your destination,you know, but the 1 percent of the
(40:17):
time you're at least still safe.
So that's, that's a big thing.
It's just the schedule flexibility.
It gives you the time to fly aroundweather systems instead of through them.
you know, it's, it's just, to me,it's the most important aspect of
staying safe when you're tryingto travel by GA is flexibility.
(40:42):
you know, the bonus again is.
you get to your destinationearly and you get home early.
if it happens to not work out that way,Oh, well, at least you're still safe.
You still got to where you were going.
but that Southwest, I can't remember whatthey call it, but not the cheapest ticket,
but the, you know, the, the more expensiveSouthwest tickets, that are refundable.
(41:07):
There you go.
And they let you board firstand get the best seats.
And, but yeah, you can.
cancel them for a full refund.
Obviously, don't quote me on this.
Don't depend on it, but my experienceis that you can cancel for a full
refund right up until departure time.
and so that.
point.
(41:27):
That's a safety feature right there.
Like have, have an alternateplan, uh, that doesn't cost
you money if you don't need it.
That's a, that's a great idea.
So in the process of being flexible,like we've both already alluded to,
you can have some great adventures.
Um, like I said, it's always anadventure, just not necessarily
(41:52):
the one you had planned on.
That's
I mean, there are times where you willplan to go somewhere that's neat and fun.
And there are times where you will justdiscover it completely by accident.
one of our favorite stopsnow is one that I discovered
completely by accident, on a trip.
To see my brother, inthe Pacific Northwest.
(42:15):
I just decided I want to stop and buy somefuel landed at Granite Falls, Minnesota.
And you know, there's nota whole lot out there.
It's, it's nowhere close to the cities.
But I fly in and right behind me, there'sthis warbird that enters the pattern
and lands and pulls up to the hangar.
(42:36):
And, you know, I only landed therebecause they had cheap fuel, having no
idea what else might be at this airport.
And this warbird comes in behind meand taxis up and this hanger opens.
And I kind of look over thereand, oh, you know, there's several
really, really nice hangers here.
And it's all a museum andit's called Fig and Fighters.
(42:56):
absolutely wonderful museum.
one thing that they do that I havenot seen anywhere else is that they
actually paint the inside walls of thehangers so that you'll see, okay, here's
this airplane that's sitting on thefloor of the hanger and there'll be a
painting of it up on the wall in battle.
and they even have like, thereare paratroopers coming down and
(43:19):
there are some, some of them,actually they'll have like half of a
mannequin sticking out of the wall.
So it's a little bit more 3d.
Yeah, it's, it's really cool.
They, they did a great job.
But, one of the things that really caughtmy eye there was they have a, a Waco
CG for a glider, which is one of thosetroop transport gliders that was pulled
(43:40):
by a DC three and dropped behind enemylines on, on the night before D day.
that's
there are not very many of thoseleft because, you know, the Germans
knew they were coming and put upall kinds of obstacles to them.
And of course, glider flying at nightis pretty dangerous to begin with.
(44:01):
and even the ones that were used duringthe day, you know, that, they had to
be able to find a good landing site.
And, I'm not sure they ever actuallyretrieved any of the ones that were used
operationally, because that's, I mean,obviously picking up a glider from a
field is, a challenge when it's that big.
I think they carried somethinglike 20 or 25 troops on every one.
(44:22):
So, they're fairly sizable andthat, that's the only one of those
gliders I've ever seen anywhere.
So that, yeah.
Kind of blew me away.
But the other thing that theyhave there is a control tower.
It's like a period control tower, andyou can climb up the stairs to the top
and they have period radios with manualsand everything, in this control tower.
(44:45):
So you can go up there and checkall that out and look out over the
airfield while you're at it and
And you found this justcompletely by accident.
completely by accident.
So, and now, yeah, every time we goto the West coast, we stop there on
the you know, get some fuel and checkout the museum for a couple of hours.
And it just makes a great wayto take a break for the family.
(45:06):
And, you know, kids quitcomplaining for a while after that.
Are we there yet?
I actually don't have that problem withthe airplane most of the time, but it,
you know, it's a good break for everybody.
the other one I like to talkabout is, and this was something
I. Couldn't plan for it all.
This was one of those throwout all the plans situations.
We were in, western Montana.
(45:29):
did I talk about this one on thepodcast already with the puking son?
All
I'm not sure.
I don't think so.
right.
Well, so we were, On the way out to theWest Coast and we're over the mountains
in Western Montana and it's bumpy,you know, it's kind of late afternoon.
(45:51):
I think we were aiming forIdaho Falls for that night.
So, you know, just kind of thelate afternoon turbulence plus,
you know, probably some mechanicalturbulence from the terrain as well.
And
just really bumpy.
And, my wife had downloaded some things toher phone for my son to watch as we were
(46:11):
flying along, just in case he got bored.
And so he's sitting there withthis little screen in front of him,
bouncing all over the place andcompletely without warning, he just
hurls all over himself like, Oh, okay.
Time for a new plan.
So, because we were in themountains, there weren't any airports
(46:32):
that were like right there, butlike, 20 miles in front of us.
There was there was an airport and youknow, landed there completely unplanned.
hadn't looked at any airport informationbefore we got there or anything like that.
And so we land to getthe kid in the car seat.
Cleaned up and luckily itall stayed in the car seat.
We didn't have anything toclean up in the airplane.
(46:53):
and while we're doing that, I, I seethis guy walking around and getting
ready to go flying and in his airplane.
And, I, I don't know, hecaught my eye for some reason.
It's kind of hard to explain.
my sister works for NASA, so I'vebeen lucky enough to meet him.
(47:14):
Quite a few astronauts and thisguy, he had, let's just say he was
wearing some stuff that I was prettysure hadn't come from the gift shop.
Did he, did he possiblyhave the right stuff?
That was awful.
But yes,
(47:35):
could just,
resist.
was wearing something thathad a NASA logo on it.
And I'm like, yeah, that doesn'tlook like gift shop merge to me.
That looks like actual, you know,
This is the official mission patchsweatshirt or something like that.
And I honestly can't even rememberexactly what it was, but I kind of
(47:57):
went, eh, that's, that's not normal.
And so.
I just kind of said, Hey,are you an astronaut?
And he said, yeah.
So I'm like, oh, that's, that's cool.
And you know, my sister works forNASA and, because my sister does
work directly with the astronauts,they actually knew each other.
So,
wow.
Amazing.
(48:17):
yeah.
Nice little small world moment.
But, and you know, so we got to talkfor a little while and then, you know,
he flew off, went his way and I wentmy way and, we're still friends on
Facebook and he's a, like most astronautsare super, super interesting guy.
And, so, you know, you, Theseare just some of the, right.
(48:39):
These are just some of the randomexperiences that you can have on a
long cross country trip when you endup throwing your plans out the window.
So, absolutely is always an adventure.
so don't be afraid to throw thoseplans out the window because
honestly, sometimes it seems likethings are more fun that way.
(49:01):
I, I agree.
and all of that, you know,just knowing all that.
Is a big help to keeping that attitudeabout flexibility that keeps you safe.
so if you're new to this and you haven'tbeen able to have that experience
yet, absolutely don't be afraid to beflexible, throw your plans out, you
(49:23):
know, and just, you know, be willing toexperience what comes to you because I've
had so many cool adventures that way.
and I guess the, the other.
places.
Yes, and kind of the last thing onthis, on this vein, safety on these
(49:44):
long trips is, you know, recognizein your planning, and this is part
of the reason for doing the detailedplanning, recognize when things are
going to be a little bit on the edge.
you know, every pilot should know theirown personal envelope and we're going to
(50:06):
talk about this in an upcoming episodeto how to expand that personal envelope
a little bit, but you kind of have anidea when things are going to be on
the edge and, you should think about.
And visualize beforehand,what could go wrong?
(50:26):
What happens if I have more of a headwindand I'm not going to make that fuel stop
that I had planned on, you know, outWest, there's not that many airports.
And so, you know, you might have to fly.
A long way to get to a different one.
and you'll have to obviouslyrecognize that situation early.
And in the case of fuel, Iactually had a situation on my,
(50:49):
my last trip to the Northwest.
I was in Minnesota, wentto my first fuel stop.
Pump was busted.
Now, crap, go to the second fuel stop.
credit card machine was busted.
Oh my goodness.
you know, these things do happen.
you need to be prepared for it.
(51:10):
And so if you're planning to get all theway down to Dave VFR fuel reserves, don't.
So, you know, make sure you're notgetting too close to those edges of the
envelope for either you or the aircraft.
The other thing is that I would say, tryto make as many decisions early if they're
(51:35):
going to be tough decisions as you can.
great advice.
yeah, I think one of the things thathappens pretty frequently with get it,
get their itis, you know, it's the worstkind of get their itis is get home itis.
There was actually a fatal accidenthere a number of years ago that was
a get home itis thing and it was aguy who was trying to get home on
(52:00):
Sunday night, you know, and get backto work the next morning or whatever.
So he had that pressure there.
and of course you always want to behome instead of in a hotel, right?
Well, he was running low on fuel.
Ran into one of those situations wherefor whatever reason he could not pump
fuel and he just flat out did nothave enough to get to another airport.
(52:25):
he actually used, I don't knowwhat kind of container he used, but
he had some sort of a container.
He sumped fuel out of the tanks ofan airplane that was parked there.
Oh,
just left them a note and said,Hey, I took some of your fuel.
Give me a call here andI'll pay you for it.
(52:46):
but unfortunately that was not ableto happen because he apparently
still didn't take enough thought.
He had enough, tried to get home,ran out of gas at night, you know,
Crash into some trees and died.
Don't be that guy.
think about, again, those thingsthat are kind of on the edge, you
know, what's going to happen if Iget to a half hour away from home.
(53:12):
And my fuel reserves are a little bit low.
Well, you know, every one of us, if we arehonest with ourselves are going to want to
push ahead anyway, we also know that thereare a million reports in the NTSB files
that we have looked at and gone, why didthat guy make such an idiotic mistake as
(53:35):
to run out of fuel five minutes from home?
So think about that stuff in advance andmake the decisions in advance as well.
The example I want togive here was actually
thick of it,
yes, because that's whenyou make the wrong decision.
That's right.
And so the, the story I'm going to tellyou here was actually a commercial flight.
(53:58):
not, not airline, but one that I flew.
and it was one of these ones where it waskind of bordering on the, the range of
the airplane at the weight we were flying.
You know, we, we had the seatsfull, so we couldn't take full fuel.
And it was a situation where there wasforecast to be an increasing headwind, The
(54:21):
further we went toward the destination.
so there's kind of strike two right there.
And then, of course, it was thebig wigs from our biggest client.
You know, and so, you know, there'sgoing to be that passenger pressure.
They want to get there without thatfuel stop, if they can help it.
(54:42):
And so I went, okay, we arenot going to make this decision
in the airplane because.
We know that our passengers aregoing to want us to push on.
We know that we're going to want topush on, I mean, how would it look if
you're flying some clients somewhereand you have to stop 20 miles away
from your destination to fuel up,they're not going to like that at all.
(55:05):
So
right.
Well, and that's the thing isyou got to think of that stuff.
In advance, what is it going to feellike when I am in this situation that
I think could happen, because I'ma little closer to the edge of the
envelope that I would like to be.
and so the plan I came up with was, okay,here's an airport that's halfway there.
(55:28):
I know has decent facilities.
And, actually the airport wasmore like three quarters of the
way there, but halfway there wasa way point on the flight plan.
I went, okay, when we hit this waypoint, we are going to evaluate the
situation and here is the minimumnumber of gallons I will accept.
(55:50):
on board at this timeto not do the fuel stop.
If we don't have that numberof gallons, Automatically
we're going to that fuel stop.
and then I made a second one where,okay, when we're a beam, that first
one, we're going to evaluate again, andwe're going to need this many gallons
to continue, and this is where we'regoing to go if we don't have enough.
(56:13):
And so by making those plans in advanceand making the situation a little bit more
black and white, And being able to takeall the emotion out of it, because that
emotion doesn't exist yet when you madethe decision makes it a piece of cake.
and then we flew the flight, got tothat first way point, went, okay.
(56:35):
Looks good to me.
Do you agree?
Yes.
Okay.
We're going to continue to thenext one, make that decision again.
And we were able to make the flightwithout a fuel stop, but we were
able to do it safely, because we haddone that decision making in advance.
So try and think through some ofthose possible, scenarios that
you might run into and go throughthat decision making in advance.
(56:57):
And, and, you know, you'll be able tokeep yourself a lot safer that way.
and I think if you do all of that,You're going to have a safe trip, you're
going to have a great trip, you'regoing to learn things, you're going to
get great use out of your airplane, andyou're going to have a whole lot of fun,
I
experience, and you're goingto want to do it again.
(57:19):
So,
Yep.
Over and over again.
Spend that time flying.
absolutely.
Well, thanks Kent.
Awesome things to be thinking about.
I know I learned a few things here so youguys out there listening and watching, we
love that you're here, reach out to us.
Let us know your stories, your thoughts.
(57:40):
You can reach us at the contactpage on studentpilotcast.
com, or you can send an emailto bill at studentpilotcast.
com.
Either way, it'll get to us.
we just want to hear about, you know,your travel stories and things that
you've learned, and the things you wouldadd to the, the listing of things that,
that we've talked about here today.
So appreciate that.
(58:00):
And Kent, thanks again.
Great topic, great stuff.
and we'll catch you next time.
Sounds good, looking forward to it.
All right.
We'll see you.
Okay.
I hope you enjoyed taking things alittle bit beyond the check ride.
Let us know your thoughts and asusual, you can reach us at the
(58:22):
website@studentpilotcast.com, on thecontact page or via email at either
Bill orKent@studentpilotcast.com.
I can be found on X as well at Bill will.
That's Bravo, India, Lima,Lima, whiskey, India, Lima.
Thanks again for hanging out with us.
And keep in mind, there's alwaysways to expand our comfort zone in
(58:43):
aviation, and if it's just takingtrips, that's one of the areas that you
want to expand your own experience in.
Just get out there and do it safely.
Of course.
Welcome back.
SPC listeners.
We're coming today with a newBeyond the check write episode
that's gonna have you going places.
Stick around for episode 84of the student pilot cast.
Just go.
(00:39):
Alright, everyone turns out being afull-time flight instructor and working
at a tech company as well doesn't leavea lot of time for editing podcasts.
But after a short hiatus, we're back withanother Beyond the check write episode.
This one's probably been about 99%done for a while, so it was time to
finally kick this one out of the nest.
In this episode, Kent and Italk about some ideas about
(01:02):
going places in airplanes.
Probably one of the reasons many of usgot into aviation in the first place.
So enjoy this episode, and asusual, let us know what ideas you
have about cross country flying.
Enjoy.
All right.
(01:22):
Welcome back everybody toanother beyond the check ride.
glad you're with us, Kent.
Welcome back.
How you been?
I am great.
It's always a great day whenyou get to talk about flying.
Oh, I couldn't agree more.
And I think you've got a really cooltopic today for us, beyond the check
(01:42):
ride about, you know, something that'snear and dear to my heart going places.
So what's the topic for today?
The topic for today isusing GA for travel.
and you know, I think it's near and dearto a lot of pilots hearts because I think
that a lot of people have this in mindwhen they become pilots, you know, they
(02:03):
think about how can I get around thecountry and the world to some extent.
Easier and, you know, have morefreedom doing it, have a much
better experience doing it.
and so, I mean, I know that for me, itwas all about higher, farther, faster
when I first started learning how to fly.
(02:24):
And that was becauseI wanted to go places.
How about you?
Yeah, for sure.
going places was alwayspart of what I wanted to do.
of course, since then I've found fun inan airplane in a lot of different ways.
Some of the most fun I've had is in lightsport airplanes that weren't really good.
(02:45):
Go places airplanes.
But yes, that was always part ofthe dream and part of the reason
to become a pilot and still is.
I agree,
Yeah.
and you know, right off the bat,you, you brought something up that I
definitely want to cover and that'swhat airplanes you can use to go places.
(03:08):
And the real answer is any ofthem with, with an asterisk.
I will, there are.
I think the most uncomfortablecross country flight I ever had
was, I flew from central Iowa tonorthern Arkansas in a Citabria and
it was an old Citabria with an oldinterior and it was not comfortable.
(03:31):
And, but I mean, it was a fun flightcause I was at, you know, 500 AGL
pretty much the whole time and, youknow, scaring horses and whatnot.
So, it was definitely still a fun flight,but it was not the most comfortable
flight and that's not the airplane Iwould buy if I wanted to go places often.
yep, yep.
And we've, we've talked about this beforemy, you know, my son works for a company
(03:54):
here locally, that's got eight extras,that he helps kind of take care of.
That be a hard plane to go placesinto, lots of fuel stops and heart,
you know, no autopilot and hard tomaintain, you know, altitude heading.
I mean, it's just, you
(04:14):
Yeah,
but
airplanes in general are not greatfor cross country because of course
they're designed to not be stable.
And why would you put an autopilot in one?
I mean, I know that's the thingpeople do because they They do
still like to go places and theyalso like to turn upside down.
So there are some, maybe more popularon something like the aerobatic Bonanza
(04:38):
or the Marchetti or something like that.
That's kind of a combinationgo places and fun airplane.
But, yeah, I, I remember years ago, Ihad a couple of friends, one of whom
had previously owned a Pitts and oneof whom owned a Pitts at the time and
flew it across half the country toget to a fly in that we were all at.
(05:01):
And, the guy who had it.
And had just hopped out after flying, Idon't know, like a thousand miles in the
thing asks the guy who used to have one.
He says, how do you fly aPitts across the country?
And the other guy goes,are you effing nuts?
You don't.
(05:23):
Yeah, Exactly.
yes, that is an example of a plane.
That's not great, but I guesswhat we're, what we're really
getting at more is right.
I mean, but you mentioned the lightsport and, Part of why this subject
came up for me, is I've recentlytalked to several different people
about flying GA cross country.
(05:45):
And one of them is a guy whoowned a 172 and I think maybe
hadn't even thought about it.
And there's nothing wrong withflying a 172 cross country.
It's maybe not the best ship thereis, but if it's what you got.
Yeah.
you don't have to havea speed demon to do it.
and so what if it takes you longer?
(06:06):
That's more hours in the log book.
It's
Yep.
Now, obviously there, there is a, there'sa balance there, especially if you have
a spouse who's with you or somethinglike that, they may not want to sit
in a little airplane for that long.
So, you know, if you're looking forwhat to buy, Yeah, buy something that
fits your missions as well as possible.
(06:26):
But if you already have an airplane,even if it's not one, that's super
conducive to cross country travel.
I mean, there are people who fly from theWest coast into, Oshkosh every year in
airplanes that, uh, in fact, one of thepeople that I, I love watching on YouTube.
Xyla Foxlin, she has, I think aLuscombe, you know, and she's based
(06:49):
in LA and she flew it to Oshkosh thissummer and posted a video about it.
And yeah, it took her four daysto get there, but you know what?
She had a great time.
So, uh, and that's really what it's about.
Um, If you're really going to be, youknow, if you're really gung ho to use GA
for travel, there are lots and lots ofgreat airplanes for travel via GA, but
(07:11):
just because you don't have one doesn'tmean that you shouldn't consider it.
and we were kind of talking earlier thatmy friend with a one 72, who I, I'm not
sure if he even thought about taking it.
when I kind of encouraged him to, itwas because he was asking about renting
an airplane at his destination so thathe could take family members flying.
(07:33):
And I went, you own aperfectly good airplane.
If you thought about taking that,you know, there were, there were
some other circumstances there to,led to him not taking his airplane.
And I, Given those, I would haveagreed with that, but you know,
there's nothing that says you can'ttake a one Luscombe or a light sport
or whatever cross country as well.
(07:54):
So,
um, but yeah, if it's going to beyour mission, definitely buy for it.
And the light sport I have the mosttime in had a great autopilot in it.
Yeah.
slow, but fine.
The biggest problem with the lightsport is you just can't take much stuff
with you and that's people and things.
(08:16):
So, a lot of times when you're traveling,you want to take some stuff with you.
so yeah, you got to make the,make sure the airplane fits the
mission, but I I'm with you.
Anything can look anywhere.
Any airplane is a cross country airplane.
If you got the time.
Right.
Yep.
Yep.
I'm trying to think, Imean, I, I know that.
(08:37):
From Wisconsin, mostly I have flown anarcher to Kentucky and Arkansas and you
know, I've flown the 182, fixed gear182, literally all over the country,
East coast, West coast, Gulf coast.
I think I landed that thing insomewhere between 30 and 35 states.
So yeah, you don't needa speed demon to do this.
(09:02):
so, getting back to, why you do it.
Well, It's part of the freedomthat we have as pilots to be
able to do that sort of thing.
and airplanes are with someexceptions, of course, like we said,
they're great traveling machines.
And, I do like to tell people that,flying is always an adventure.
(09:23):
It just might not be theadventure you had planned on.
That's right.
but I consider myself extremelylucky in life to have had so many
experiences in a small airplane, thatI just wouldn't trade for the world.
And, so part of the whole point ofdoing this episode is to encourage
(09:44):
people to get out there and do it.
now as pilots, we sometimes liketo justify ourselves, right?
And this is where, especially like Isaid, if you're going with a spouse
or something like that, that mightchange how you calculate things.
or if you're going with small childrenor, you know, there are asterisks all
(10:06):
over the place in this episode, but we'regoing to talk about some of those things
and how you can do them successfullyand, have everybody have a good time.
so one of the primary thingsthat people talk about is cost.
Okay.
and generally driving and flying theairlines are thought of as cheaper.
(10:30):
There's a reason that Thatis the thought process.
And that is that often they are cheaper.
but, you know, just a little bitago we were talking about, a leg
that I flew in the Mooney from NewMexico to Wisconsin, and I actually
burned less fuel flying the airplanethan I would have driving the car.
(10:52):
Yeah.
And you did that flightin less than five hours,
Yes.
Yes.
I. definitely burn less fuel than the carwould have burned at 200 miles an hour.
Yes.
So, so first of all, I wouldencourage those of you who feel the
need to justify things via cost.
(11:12):
look at all the costs because GAdoes come out ahead sometimes.
And, especially if you're lookingat kind of more of a mid range trip,
I would say, I guess the way I haveput it once was anywhere from 150 miles
to two times whatever the cruise speedtimes your, cruise speed of your airplane
(11:36):
times the endurance of your bladder.
You know, where can you get in two legs.
you know, when you start having,
Hey Kent, I, I gotta say, I am justsomehow not surprised that you have a
rule of thumb for, trip making like that.
I love it.
I love it.
well, that one I don'tactually use myself.
(11:58):
I go, I go wherever, but you know,I, I know that some of those longer
trips are, are harder to justify,especially for family members.
The
so,
me less right now is if you said,I also have a pneumonic for a trip.
No, I'm just kidding.
but yeah, so the, the mid range tripsare the ones where GA really shines.
(12:22):
you know, especially if you're goingsomeplace that is not an airline hub.
Yeah, because, you know, cost isone thing, but there's a lot of
cost savings and flexibility too.
I think you're probably goingto talk about that, but,
flexibility of time and place.
(12:42):
Thanks.
Uh, can bring with it a lotof cost savings, that you need
to take into account as well.
yeah.
you know, a big one is hotel rooms.
Since you mentioned flexibility,there are plenty of times where I
can fly a leg or maybe two home.
after a day of having fun somewhere.
(13:05):
And I saved myself ahotel room that night.
I would have had to fly out in theairlines the next day, or I would have
had to have one less day of fun orwhatever I was doing at my destination.
So, you know, there's, there'splenty of times where, in fact, I
would say most times, Airline flyingkind of takes up your whole day.
(13:27):
whereas I've had work trips where I workedthe whole day and then fly home and you
know, we've had, pleasure vacations wherewe're able to get some last minute play in
and then hop in the airplane and get homeand not need another hotel that night.
And so, definitely consider whetheryou're going to need another night or
two in a hotel and how much that's goingto cost you if you fly on the airlines.
(13:50):
car, things.
Yeah.
And of course the airlines love tocharge fees for bags and you know,
this and that and the other stuff.
And, and of course then thereis also your, your time and
your enjoyment of the trip.
being able to get somewherefaster is really nice.
Not having to deal withthe hassles of TSA.
(14:12):
And, one of the things that made mereally start thinking about this hard.
very early on.
I think it was the samesummer I got my private.
I went to my cousin's wedding and I wasalready in Minneapolis for other reasons.
Hopped on an airplanethere, flew to Albuquerque.
(14:34):
and of course to get on the airplane,you know, you have to go through
all the regular airport stuff.
parking and security and check inand checking bags and all that.
And, you know, even though a lot of peopledon't travel with checked luggage anymore
because of the fees, well, okay, so youdidn't check it, but now they make you
(14:56):
gate check it and then you still haveto wait at the other end and all that.
So there's, there's timeinvolved in all of those things.
And so, you know, you haveto consider that time.
But then I got to the other end and,you know, Takes a while to get off the
airplane, and then I spent 45 minuteswaiting for bags at Baggage Claim, spent
(15:16):
another 45 minutes in line at the rentalcar counter, drove an hour and a half to a
town that had a perfectly good GA airport,and I went, why did I just do this?
I could have gotten myselfhere just as fast in an Archer.
So.
Yeah.
(15:37):
That was kind of a, an eyeopeningmoment for me to, to have
that experience and go, okay.
You know, GA is really usable fortravel, even if you don't have the,
the fanciest, fastest airplane.
So, definitely consider all that timeand, you know, the, the difference
in experiences between those as well.
(15:58):
So if the actual numbers don't completelywork out in your favor, consider that
it might be worth a couple hundred bucksto see some really cool sites and to not
have somebody groping you in the TSA line.
Not to mention getting somegreat experience as a pilot.
yes.
and you know, Cross country flights arethe best learning flying that you can have
(16:22):
without an instructor aboard, I believe,and I really think that they're a great
way to increase your skills as a pilot,you know, to get out of the nest and
see new terrain and deal with differentcontrollers and all that and, I mean, the
FAA has done a good job of designing theNational Airspace System so that things
are familiar in any place you go, butthere's still enough that's different
(16:48):
that it's, you know, you always learnsomething when you go on a long trip, but
you also just, you get to see new sites.
And man, I cannot even begin to describesome of the amazing sites that I've
been able to see from a small airplane.
Yeah.
So
(17:13):
awesome.
so as far as the cost for flyingGA, you know, fuel is the big one.
you do need to look at fees.
you know, if you fly into Orlandointernational, which I have, you're
going to pay some fees there.
so be sure you call ahead to the FBOand at least, you know, find out what
(17:34):
those fees are and what you're in for.
but there are, you know, if, if you'rean accountant, you might think, well,
I need to amortize this and divide thatacross the hours and blah, blah, blah.
and all of that,
Here's, here's how I look at itwhen I'm deciding whether or not.
I should financially be able tojustify going somewhere in my airplane.
(18:00):
I do not divide the entire cost bythe number of hours in the year.
If you do that, you'llnever fly the airplane.
And if you don't fly the airplane,why do you have the airplane?
The way I look at it is.
The first hour I fly every year costsme somewhere between 12 and 28, 000.
(18:25):
I don't want to get anymore accurate than that.
And I'm sure that, you know, everyone'scosts are going to vary, you know, East
coast hangers are really expensive, forexample, and so, but anyway, the first
hour you fly every year is horrendouslyexpensive because, you know, just
the fact that you have an airplane,you're going to be paying for a hanger.
(18:47):
You're going to be paying insurance.
You're going to be paying for an annualinspection, et cetera, et cetera.
But if you look at it thisway and say, okay, Okay.
My first hour costs me 20 grand, all theother ones cost me, you know, 60, right.
cause really gas and, you know, ifyou decide that you want to keep an
(19:10):
engine reserve fund, you know, youmight want to consider that as well.
But to me, the cost of travel isstrictly the variable costs, the
incremental costs of flying the airplane.
Because, you know, just the decision youmade to own an airplane, is what cost you
that first 20 grand or whatever it is.
the more you fly it, the cheaper it is.
(19:32):
and that's absolutely true.
Airplanes love to fly.
They get cheaper to maintainthe more hours you put on them.
And so by looking at it that way and beingable to justify trips means that, you
know, my average per hour price goes downjust because I'm using the airplane more.
So,
Interesting.
(19:54):
I should have mentioned at the top here.
just where I'm coming from.
Now.
It's been 21 years since I got my privateand I have used single engine piston
airplanes to travel to around 40 states.
I'll have to actually count themsometime and see if I've hit 40 yet.
I know it's at least 35.
(20:16):
like I said, East coast, Westcoast and Gulf coast being
based here in the Midwest.
and I have been to the Bahamas, so I havedone lots of travel by GA. I know I have
at least 2400 hours across country time.
So, it's, it's a thing I love to do.
And I, I think everybodyshould give it a shot.
(20:38):
I couldn't agree more.
So, now we talked about, beyondthe check ride and how this is
a thing that I think a very highpercentage of pilots want to do.
And of course the, the nextthing is always, well, I have
to get my instrument rating.
I can't do that until Iget my instrument rating.
(21:00):
And yes, I have my instrument ratingand I've had it most of that time,
but you do not have to have aninstrument rating to fly cross country.
you do need to have moreweather flexibility.
If you don't have your instrumentrating, you know, there
will be times where you get.
stuck at some little podunk placefor, you know, days potentially.
(21:21):
that sort of thing doesn't tend to happenwhen you have an instrument rating,
but that's also kind of a horror story.
Yeah, that's true.
Um,
the one you expected.
yes, I, I. I know some guys whohave a great story about driving
hundreds of miles home in a U Haulbecause it was the only thing they
(21:42):
were available to rent in whateverlittle podunk town they ended up in.
so yeah, you, you might have a, anadventure, but you'll definitely
get a good story out of it.
but even though I, I w I wasgoing to say, this is kind of a,
a horror story that gets repeatedthroughout this industry that keeps
people from using their airplanes.
(22:04):
You know, I mentioned flyingto Kentucky in an archer.
I did that that first fallthat I had my private.
so no instrument rating.
I flew the 182 to Texaswithout an instrument rating.
I went on a gigantic 5800 nauticalmile adventure over the course of
three weeks, put 63 hours on that 182.
(22:26):
I had the instrument rating for that, butsince I was out west, like the whole point
of it was to, you know, See the sites.
And so I was IFR for about.
to get my instrument.
After
I mean, it took me, I thinkit took me three years.
(22:47):
Well,
were three years that I got somegood cross country flight in.
Well, thank you, but I don't think so.
Um, But yeah, I mean, in those threeyears, like I said, I've done, I did
some really good long cross countries,without an instrument rating.
And I did that huge West coastadventure, like I said, with an
(23:08):
instrument rating, but I was IFR formaybe 20 minutes of that entire trip.
and it was certainly, you know,the IFR, if I had waited maybe
two hours, it would have been.
The weather would have been through.
So,
All right.
I'm going to, I'm going totake a slight, tangent here
(23:28):
okay.
to ask you, what'shopefully a quick question.
If you are traveling somewhere.
And the weather's okay, youfile IFR, or do you fly VFR?
Wow.
That is a big old, it depends.
I mean, that's the answer toevery question in aviation.
(23:51):
It depends.
Good point.
There are so many variablesinvolved and it really does.
Yeah, there's, I've done plenty of both.
you know, especially out west.
I love being VFR.
and it's conducive to VFR,when you're in the mountains
because the air is pretty dry.
And, you know, there'srarely a whole lot of clouds.
(24:13):
And when there are clouds, you mightnot want to be flying IFR either.
Right,
You you, have a lot morelimited options when you're,
when you're out that way, IFR.
And of course, if you make a mistake, theconsequences can be a lot more severe.
well, I do want to talk about theflip side and that is, when I would go
(24:36):
IFR, even if the weather is, is fine.
And usually that's for operationalreasons like, you know, if you're going
somewhere in the Washington DC area, Ifeel like it's a lot easier to fly there.
IFR, things are generally the same.
(24:58):
I believe you still have to take the,the SIFRA familiarization course and
learn about all the ways that they'regoing to shoot you down and all the
ways that they're going to warn youthat they're going to shoot you down
if you go in the wrong place out there.
But, and of course what the procedures areso that they don't don't shoot you down,
but really, the, the key there is that theeasiest thing to do if you're not familiar
(25:20):
with those procedures and, you know,because you're based far away is just
file IFR and, you know, make sure you stayIFR, all the way to the ground and you
pick up IFR before you get off the ground.
And then pretty much nothing's different.
so that sort of situation is one example.
The other one is like if you're flyinginto a primary class Bravo airport, or any
(25:45):
other sort of really, really busy airport.
it's just a lot easier becausethey know you're coming, they
know how to deal with you.
You know, one of my flight instructorshad an incident where he was trying to
fly VFR into Chicago O'Hare because the,he was taking some charter pilots to pick
up an airplane that had been left thereand the controllers at O'Hare at the time
(26:13):
literally had no idea how to work him.
You know, because O'Hare, you know,they're, they've gotten so much better,
but they used to be so, I hate tosay anti GA, but they really were
focused.
right.
All, all one 21 all the time.
(26:35):
Right.
And so he ended upcircling outside the Bravo.
And I think he had to call on sixdifferent frequencies before someone
finally got on the phone and calledthe controller that he needed to call.
Let's tell them this, you know, this ishow you work a VFR aircraft because, you
(26:58):
know, they just weren't used to it at all.
so yeah, it goes a lot smootherwhen you're tangling with, you
know, a whole bunch of jets.
If you just operate theway they do, you know.
Learn how to fly a fast approach,file IFR, and then just go on in.
and I generally don't goplaces like that on purpose.
(27:21):
Right.
I tend to avoid Bravo's because they'reexpensive and you know, there's a
lot of traffic to deal with and,
takes a
and
one of the time advantages that we have.
with GA is being able to landcloser to our actual destination.
so yeah, it's, it's rare that I, Ifly GA and do a primary Bravo, but
(27:43):
you know, I've flown into Baltimore,Washington international several times.
I've flown into Orlando international,New Orleans, and a few others.
I'd have to sit down and.
figure out the whole list.
But, yeah, that's, that's a situationwhere I would probably file IFR.
So I think we, we pretty wellbeat that question to death.
(28:07):
Yeah.
so I, you know, one of the notes thatI put in here for the show on IFR vs.
VFR was just, do you have to be IFR?
No, go ahead.
Fly those long cross countries.
VFR.
(28:28):
just have that extra flexibility sothat you can make good decisions.
is it helpful to havean instrument rating?
Absolutely.
you know, there's plenty of times where,you know, there's a overcast layer at a
thousand, 1500 feet, something like that.
and it's only 500 or a thousand feetthick, and it's going to keep VFR
(28:49):
pilots sitting on the ground for, likeI said, potentially a couple of days.
whereas if you're an IFR pilot, you just.
Blast up through itand you're on your way.
so I would say if traveling is going tobe a goal, then the instrument rating
should be a goal, but not a requirement.
And I do have some friends who have flownall over the country for years and years
(29:09):
and never got their instrument ratings.
So, definitely don't let the lackof an instrument rating be something
that stops you from trying it.
one little,
Oh boy, here we go again.
I have another rule of thumb.
that's related to all this.
basically it's, it's the 1, 110 rule.
(29:32):
and that is that if you're goingon a thousand mile trip and you
have to go 100 miles off course inthe middle, it only actually adds
about 10 miles to the trip distance.
something that blows people's minds, huh?
yeah,
yeah.
And, it's just a, if nothing else,it's a reminder to keep flexibility in
(29:57):
mind, you don't have to go direct from.
Milwaukee, Wisconsin to Houston, you know,
you can go well off course in themiddle and really not affect the length
of the trip significantly at all.
And so, you know, you have a luxury onthe longer trips of being able to say,
(30:18):
I don't really like that weather there.
So I'm going to go overthat way and go around it.
And hey, as a bonus, if that'sa trip you've done before,
now you get to see new stuff.
Yeah.
It also gives you flexibilityto find cheaper fuel
for
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So, that kind of leads us intoplanning and how we do that.
(30:42):
specifically, I would say the processI follow is to, you know, look at my
departure and destination airports.
You know, my departure is where I'm based.
My destination is, almost alwaysgoing to be the closest paved runway
to the actual spot I'm trying to go.
(31:02):
I don't try to avoid grass runways.
I just don't find a whole lot of them inthe places that I'm actually trying to go.
You know, they tend to be more rural.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just the, you know, if youthink about where they are in
relation to population centers,which are, you know, the, the more.
(31:26):
population a place has, the morelikely you're going to be to go there.
not that I'm going to New York City onevery trip or anything like that, but,
you know, if I'm going to visit friendsor relatives, unless they're living on
a farm in the middle of nowhere, youknow, they're living near other people.
And so it's
even then
a paved runway close by.
Right.
(31:47):
You know, it's, it would beinteresting to know how many counties
in the U. S. don't have that.
Have a paved runway anywhere.
most
as, as, I don't want to say unhealthy,but maybe as malnourished as G.
A. S. There are still lots andlots of airports in this country.
And, you know, I'm Very thankful for that.
(32:08):
so yeah, generally that's going to be,where I'm going is the, the nearest
paved runway, unless there's some reasonto, to go somewhere else nearby, but
I'm always aiming to get as close asI can to my destination in between.
Boy, you have a million options.
And so the first thing I do usuallyis I, I start looking at, okay, how
(32:33):
many stops am I going to need or want?
and then I start working from there.
I also, I'm going to be looking at, isthere any terrain I want to go around or
is there anything I want to see that mightbe a little ways off course, you know?
So, I guess before thestops, I probably need.
do those two things and kind ofdecide what I want my overall
(32:55):
course for the entire trip to be.
And then start looking at, okay,where am I going to fuel the plane?
Where am I going to fuel myself?
You know, I would say that often we willpack sandwiches and snacks and stuff like
that in the airplane when we go somewhere.
But if you're going on a longer trip whereyou're going to need more than one meal
(33:16):
along the way, you probably are going towant to, be able to stop someplace where
there's a convenient way to get some food,either on the airport or real close to it.
if I'm really going far away or ifmaybe, you know, we're working and
then leaving on the same day andwe're leaving in the evening, I'm
(33:37):
going to stay overnight somewhere.
You know, I kind of like tofigure out those overnight stops.
so, you know, I figureout that overall course.
and then the stops, andthen I do it all over again.
So that was plan A. And I would saynormally I want to have maybe three
(33:58):
plans, column A, B, and C. you mightwant to look at, okay, If I'm going
off course 100 miles in the middle thisway or 100 miles in the middle that way
for weather, what would that look like?
is there a different way around someof that terrain that I might want
to try out or something differentI might want to see along the way?
(34:19):
You know, look at some of those samethings, but on a completely different
route that's, significantly differentjust so that you have some options if
the weather, one or two of those routesturns out to be bad when you depart.
We have to stop and see theworld's largest rubber band ball.
We just have to.
Yeah.
(34:42):
after we're done recording this episode.
What's the weirdest thing I've seen?
I mean, I have seen, likeI said, many cool things.
and I want to point out that evenafter your A, B and C to be as safe
as possible on a cross country trip,you have to be willing to throw all
(35:05):
your plans away and come up with acompletely new one at the last minute.
While you're already flying sometimes.
Including turning aroundand 86 and the whole thing.
It's
Absolutely.
Yep.
There have to be those times where, youknow, and, and this will happen in the
middle of the trip, filled up with fuel.
(35:25):
And I think the weather is goingto be okay up ahead this way.
And while you take off and youkind of look around and just go,
Nope.
turn around, get on the ground, sitit out for a while, There are, you
know, lots of horror stories thatpeople talk about, but honestly, I've,
I've never pretty sure I have neverhad to make an unplanned overnight.
(35:52):
you know, yeah, and, you know,lots of people have, but,
but it,
horror stories as there are.
Yeah,
it always is.
But as many horror stories is people willtell about how awful G. A. Is for travel.
I've actually found it to behighly reliable, not 100%.
(36:14):
Nothing is 100%.
And you know, you needto be okay with that.
You need to be okay with some scheduleflexibility and all that sort of thing.
But it should definitely notstop you from doing anything.
Or at least planning to, so anyway, comeup with three big overall plans, you know,
(36:36):
at least down to the leg level and then.
You know, kind of go fromthere, be willing to throw them
out the window if you need to
Yeah.
That,
as you get closer.
about, that flexibility you'retalking about, I think is it.
You know, it's, it's a safetyfeature and, I, I think, you know,
(36:56):
we have to, we talk about, youknow, get their itis and things.
We have to be willing to be flexibleand throw out our plans all the
time if we want to stay safe.
Yeah.
And we'll get to that in a littlebit when we talk about more of
the safety aspects of this, but,planning wise, I think having three.
(37:18):
three main routes is,is a good thing to do.
and then finally, once you figure outwhich of those routes you're going to fly,
then you're probably going to want to getin your EFB and split them into separate
legs and plan each leg individuallywith, you know, approach and departure
procedures and that sort of thing.
(37:39):
you know, get in a little moredetail and plan out each leg
the way that you normally would.
It's kind of fun to do that anyway.
It is.
I mean, it's, it's a good exercise.
I, I really enjoy planning flightsand I've probably planned at least 10
flights for every flight I've ever taken.
Sometimes it's, it's just fun to dreamand you know, especially if you just blew
(38:05):
all your money on one trip and you can'ttake another one for a little bit, you
know, figure out what that next one isgoing to be and start a fantasy planning.
I've, I've planned at least 10 times moreflights than I've ever taken, for sure.
Yeah.
And I've got flights saved in my, infor flight that I have never taken
(38:27):
and may never take, I've got them inthere because I wanted to see what
it would be like to do that flight.
Yup.
I have a, I have a plan for an Atlanticcrossing that has been sitting in
my foreflight for at least a decade.
That's a doozy.
It is.
Well, hopefully somedayI'll be able to afford that.
(38:49):
That's, that's way beyond the check ride.
Yes.
Yes.
That's potentially beyond sanity, but
So let's talk a little bit aboutsome of those safety things.
And like you mentioned, flexibilityis, that is to me, the most
(39:10):
important way of staying safe.
If you are a person who absolutely has toadhere to plan A, don't travel by GA. Um,
Buy and airplane
ticket.
Yep.
and you know, there will be timeswhere that's your, your plan B,
even if you are planning to flyyourself, you know, get there.
(39:32):
Right.
This is, is a big deal.
there's a reason thatit has a name, you know?
And so, You know, what I generallylike to do to avoid that is to plan to
leave early enough that if there's aplace that I have to be at a specific
time, I just leave early enough in theairplane where, you know, let's say I go
(39:53):
to the airport, the airplane fails itsmag check and I'm not flying anywhere.
I want to be able to justget in the car and drive.
If I have to, so sometimesthat means, you know, you're
going to be leaving a day early
Yeah.
and what that means is that 99percent of the time you get an extra
day of vacation at your destination,you know, but the 1 percent of the
(40:17):
time you're at least still safe.
So that's, that's a big thing.
It's just the schedule flexibility.
It gives you the time to fly aroundweather systems instead of through them.
you know, it's, it's just, to me,it's the most important aspect of
staying safe when you're tryingto travel by GA is flexibility.
(40:42):
you know, the bonus again is.
you get to your destinationearly and you get home early.
if it happens to not work out that way,Oh, well, at least you're still safe.
You still got to where you were going.
but that Southwest, I can't remember whatthey call it, but not the cheapest ticket,
but the, you know, the, the more expensiveSouthwest tickets, that are refundable.
(41:07):
There you go.
And they let you board firstand get the best seats.
And, but yeah, you can.
cancel them for a full refund.
Obviously, don't quote me on this.
Don't depend on it, but my experienceis that you can cancel for a full
refund right up until departure time.
and so that.
point.
(41:27):
That's a safety feature right there.
Like have, have an alternateplan, uh, that doesn't cost
you money if you don't need it.
That's a, that's a great idea.
So in the process of being flexible,like we've both already alluded to,
you can have some great adventures.
Um, like I said, it's always anadventure, just not necessarily
(41:52):
the one you had planned on.
That's
I mean, there are times where you willplan to go somewhere that's neat and fun.
And there are times where you will justdiscover it completely by accident.
one of our favorite stopsnow is one that I discovered
completely by accident, on a trip.
To see my brother, inthe Pacific Northwest.
(42:15):
I just decided I want to stop and buy somefuel landed at Granite Falls, Minnesota.
And you know, there's nota whole lot out there.
It's, it's nowhere close to the cities.
But I fly in and right behind me, there'sthis warbird that enters the pattern
and lands and pulls up to the hangar.
(42:36):
And, you know, I only landed therebecause they had cheap fuel, having no
idea what else might be at this airport.
And this warbird comes in behind meand taxis up and this hanger opens.
And I kind of look over thereand, oh, you know, there's several
really, really nice hangers here.
And it's all a museum andit's called Fig and Fighters.
(42:56):
absolutely wonderful museum.
one thing that they do that I havenot seen anywhere else is that they
actually paint the inside walls of thehangers so that you'll see, okay, here's
this airplane that's sitting on thefloor of the hanger and there'll be a
painting of it up on the wall in battle.
and they even have like, thereare paratroopers coming down and
(43:19):
there are some, some of them,actually they'll have like half of a
mannequin sticking out of the wall.
So it's a little bit more 3d.
Yeah, it's, it's really cool.
They, they did a great job.
But, one of the things that really caughtmy eye there was they have a, a Waco
CG for a glider, which is one of thosetroop transport gliders that was pulled
(43:40):
by a DC three and dropped behind enemylines on, on the night before D day.
that's
there are not very many of thoseleft because, you know, the Germans
knew they were coming and put upall kinds of obstacles to them.
And of course, glider flying at nightis pretty dangerous to begin with.
(44:01):
and even the ones that were used duringthe day, you know, that, they had to
be able to find a good landing site.
And, I'm not sure they ever actuallyretrieved any of the ones that were used
operationally, because that's, I mean,obviously picking up a glider from a
field is, a challenge when it's that big.
I think they carried somethinglike 20 or 25 troops on every one.
(44:22):
So, they're fairly sizable andthat, that's the only one of those
gliders I've ever seen anywhere.
So that, yeah.
Kind of blew me away.
But the other thing that theyhave there is a control tower.
It's like a period control tower, andyou can climb up the stairs to the top
and they have period radios with manualsand everything, in this control tower.
(44:45):
So you can go up there and checkall that out and look out over the
airfield while you're at it and
And you found this justcompletely by accident.
completely by accident.
So, and now, yeah, every time we goto the West coast, we stop there on
the you know, get some fuel and checkout the museum for a couple of hours.
And it just makes a great wayto take a break for the family.
(45:06):
And, you know, kids quitcomplaining for a while after that.
Are we there yet?
I actually don't have that problem withthe airplane most of the time, but it,
you know, it's a good break for everybody.
the other one I like to talkabout is, and this was something
I. Couldn't plan for it all.
This was one of those throwout all the plans situations.
We were in, western Montana.
(45:29):
did I talk about this one on thepodcast already with the puking son?
All
I'm not sure.
I don't think so.
right.
Well, so we were, On the way out to theWest Coast and we're over the mountains
in Western Montana and it's bumpy,you know, it's kind of late afternoon.
(45:51):
I think we were aiming forIdaho Falls for that night.
So, you know, just kind of thelate afternoon turbulence plus,
you know, probably some mechanicalturbulence from the terrain as well.
And
just really bumpy.
And, my wife had downloaded some things toher phone for my son to watch as we were
(46:11):
flying along, just in case he got bored.
And so he's sitting there withthis little screen in front of him,
bouncing all over the place andcompletely without warning, he just
hurls all over himself like, Oh, okay.
Time for a new plan.
So, because we were in themountains, there weren't any airports
(46:32):
that were like right there, butlike, 20 miles in front of us.
There was there was an airport and youknow, landed there completely unplanned.
hadn't looked at any airport informationbefore we got there or anything like that.
And so we land to getthe kid in the car seat.
Cleaned up and luckily itall stayed in the car seat.
We didn't have anything toclean up in the airplane.
(46:53):
and while we're doing that, I, I seethis guy walking around and getting
ready to go flying and in his airplane.
And, I, I don't know, hecaught my eye for some reason.
It's kind of hard to explain.
my sister works for NASA, so I'vebeen lucky enough to meet him.
(47:14):
Quite a few astronauts and thisguy, he had, let's just say he was
wearing some stuff that I was prettysure hadn't come from the gift shop.
Did he, did he possiblyhave the right stuff?
That was awful.
But yes,
(47:35):
could just,
resist.
was wearing something thathad a NASA logo on it.
And I'm like, yeah, that doesn'tlook like gift shop merge to me.
That looks like actual, you know,
This is the official mission patchsweatshirt or something like that.
And I honestly can't even rememberexactly what it was, but I kind of
(47:57):
went, eh, that's, that's not normal.
And so.
I just kind of said, Hey,are you an astronaut?
And he said, yeah.
So I'm like, oh, that's, that's cool.
And you know, my sister works forNASA and, because my sister does
work directly with the astronauts,they actually knew each other.
So,
wow.
Amazing.
(48:17):
yeah.
Nice little small world moment.
But, and you know, so we got to talkfor a little while and then, you know,
he flew off, went his way and I wentmy way and, we're still friends on
Facebook and he's a, like most astronautsare super, super interesting guy.
And, so, you know, you, Theseare just some of the, right.
(48:39):
These are just some of the randomexperiences that you can have on a
long cross country trip when you endup throwing your plans out the window.
So, absolutely is always an adventure.
so don't be afraid to throw thoseplans out the window because
honestly, sometimes it seems likethings are more fun that way.
(49:01):
I, I agree.
and all of that, you know,just knowing all that.
Is a big help to keeping that attitudeabout flexibility that keeps you safe.
so if you're new to this and you haven'tbeen able to have that experience
yet, absolutely don't be afraid to beflexible, throw your plans out, you
(49:23):
know, and just, you know, be willing toexperience what comes to you because I've
had so many cool adventures that way.
and I guess the, the other.
places.
Yes, and kind of the last thing onthis, on this vein, safety on these
(49:44):
long trips is, you know, recognizein your planning, and this is part
of the reason for doing the detailedplanning, recognize when things are
going to be a little bit on the edge.
you know, every pilot should know theirown personal envelope and we're going to
(50:06):
talk about this in an upcoming episodeto how to expand that personal envelope
a little bit, but you kind of have anidea when things are going to be on
the edge and, you should think about.
And visualize beforehand,what could go wrong?
(50:26):
What happens if I have more of a headwindand I'm not going to make that fuel stop
that I had planned on, you know, outWest, there's not that many airports.
And so, you know, you might have to fly.
A long way to get to a different one.
and you'll have to obviouslyrecognize that situation early.
And in the case of fuel, Iactually had a situation on my,
(50:49):
my last trip to the Northwest.
I was in Minnesota, wentto my first fuel stop.
Pump was busted.
Now, crap, go to the second fuel stop.
credit card machine was busted.
Oh my goodness.
you know, these things do happen.
you need to be prepared for it.
(51:10):
And so if you're planning to get all theway down to Dave VFR fuel reserves, don't.
So, you know, make sure you're notgetting too close to those edges of the
envelope for either you or the aircraft.
The other thing is that I would say, tryto make as many decisions early if they're
(51:35):
going to be tough decisions as you can.
great advice.
yeah, I think one of the things thathappens pretty frequently with get it,
get their itis, you know, it's the worstkind of get their itis is get home itis.
There was actually a fatal accidenthere a number of years ago that was
a get home itis thing and it was aguy who was trying to get home on
(52:00):
Sunday night, you know, and get backto work the next morning or whatever.
So he had that pressure there.
and of course you always want to behome instead of in a hotel, right?
Well, he was running low on fuel.
Ran into one of those situations wherefor whatever reason he could not pump
fuel and he just flat out did nothave enough to get to another airport.
(52:25):
he actually used, I don't knowwhat kind of container he used, but
he had some sort of a container.
He sumped fuel out of the tanks ofan airplane that was parked there.
Oh,
just left them a note and said,Hey, I took some of your fuel.
Give me a call here andI'll pay you for it.
(52:46):
but unfortunately that was not ableto happen because he apparently
still didn't take enough thought.
He had enough, tried to get home,ran out of gas at night, you know,
Crash into some trees and died.
Don't be that guy.
think about, again, those thingsthat are kind of on the edge, you
know, what's going to happen if Iget to a half hour away from home.
(53:12):
And my fuel reserves are a little bit low.
Well, you know, every one of us, if we arehonest with ourselves are going to want to
push ahead anyway, we also know that thereare a million reports in the NTSB files
that we have looked at and gone, why didthat guy make such an idiotic mistake as
(53:35):
to run out of fuel five minutes from home?
So think about that stuff in advance andmake the decisions in advance as well.
The example I want togive here was actually
thick of it,
yes, because that's whenyou make the wrong decision.
That's right.
And so the, the story I'm going to tellyou here was actually a commercial flight.
(53:58):
not, not airline, but one that I flew.
and it was one of these ones where it waskind of bordering on the, the range of
the airplane at the weight we were flying.
You know, we, we had the seatsfull, so we couldn't take full fuel.
And it was a situation where there wasforecast to be an increasing headwind, The
(54:21):
further we went toward the destination.
so there's kind of strike two right there.
And then, of course, it was thebig wigs from our biggest client.
You know, and so, you know, there'sgoing to be that passenger pressure.
They want to get there without thatfuel stop, if they can help it.
(54:42):
And so I went, okay, we arenot going to make this decision
in the airplane because.
We know that our passengers aregoing to want us to push on.
We know that we're going to want topush on, I mean, how would it look if
you're flying some clients somewhereand you have to stop 20 miles away
from your destination to fuel up,they're not going to like that at all.
(55:05):
So
right.
Well, and that's the thing isyou got to think of that stuff.
In advance, what is it going to feellike when I am in this situation that
I think could happen, because I'ma little closer to the edge of the
envelope that I would like to be.
and so the plan I came up with was, okay,here's an airport that's halfway there.
(55:28):
I know has decent facilities.
And, actually the airport wasmore like three quarters of the
way there, but halfway there wasa way point on the flight plan.
I went, okay, when we hit this waypoint, we are going to evaluate the
situation and here is the minimumnumber of gallons I will accept.
(55:50):
on board at this timeto not do the fuel stop.
If we don't have that numberof gallons, Automatically
we're going to that fuel stop.
and then I made a second one where,okay, when we're a beam, that first
one, we're going to evaluate again, andwe're going to need this many gallons
to continue, and this is where we'regoing to go if we don't have enough.
(56:13):
And so by making those plans in advanceand making the situation a little bit more
black and white, And being able to takeall the emotion out of it, because that
emotion doesn't exist yet when you madethe decision makes it a piece of cake.
and then we flew the flight, got tothat first way point, went, okay.
(56:35):
Looks good to me.
Do you agree?
Yes.
Okay.
We're going to continue to thenext one, make that decision again.
And we were able to make the flightwithout a fuel stop, but we were
able to do it safely, because we haddone that decision making in advance.
So try and think through some ofthose possible, scenarios that
you might run into and go throughthat decision making in advance.
(56:57):
And, and, you know, you'll be able tokeep yourself a lot safer that way.
and I think if you do all of that,You're going to have a safe trip, you're
going to have a great trip, you'regoing to learn things, you're going to
get great use out of your airplane, andyou're going to have a whole lot of fun,
I
experience, and you're goingto want to do it again.
(57:19):
So,
Yep.
Over and over again.
Spend that time flying.
absolutely.
Well, thanks Kent.
Awesome things to be thinking about.
I know I learned a few things here so youguys out there listening and watching, we
love that you're here, reach out to us.
Let us know your stories, your thoughts.
(57:40):
You can reach us at the contactpage on studentpilotcast.
com, or you can send an emailto bill at studentpilotcast.
com.
Either way, it'll get to us.
we just want to hear about, you know,your travel stories and things that
you've learned, and the things you wouldadd to the, the listing of things that,
that we've talked about here today.
So appreciate that.
(58:00):
And Kent, thanks again.
Great topic, great stuff.
and we'll catch you next time.
Sounds good, looking forward to it.
All right.
We'll see you.
Okay.
I hope you enjoyed taking things alittle bit beyond the check ride.
Let us know your thoughts and asusual, you can reach us at the
(58:22):
website@studentpilotcast.com, on thecontact page or via email at either
Bill orKent@studentpilotcast.com.
I can be found on X as well at Bill will.
That's Bravo, India, Lima,Lima, whiskey, India, Lima.
Thanks again for hanging out with us.
And keep in mind, there's alwaysways to expand our comfort zone in
(58:43):
aviation, and if it's just takingtrips, that's one of the areas that you
want to expand your own experience in.
Just get out there and do it safely.
Of course.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.