Music Industry Insights with Ineffable Records' Diego Herrera

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Diego Herrera's journey from Costa Rica to the United States is a captivating story of cultural fusion. Raised in the rise hip-hop, punk rock alongside reggae and dancehall in Costa Rica, Diego's unique upbringing laid the groundwork for his dynamic career in the music industry. As the director of business development at Ineffable Records, Diego shares personal anecdotes about his dual life across continents and how it influenced his musical tastes and professional trajectory.

From Diego's early days on college radio at KFJC to his behind-the-scenes work at Pandora, his path reflects the essential yet often overlooked roles that ensure a seamless listener experience. The episode sheds light on the intricacies of library maintenance and metadata management, underscoring their importance in curating content that fills gaps in the Caribbean music catalog. As the music industry undergoes rapid transformation, Diego discusses the evolving roles of both labels and artists, highlighting the need for strategic collaboration and the impact of technology and social media platforms like TikTok.

This episode is for the music lovers, a great discussion that blends personal stories with industry insights, illustrating the universal and unifying power of music.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of
the Style and Vibes podcast withyours truly.
If you are new here, welcome tothe family.
If you are coming back, welcomeback family.
And I haven't done a podcast ina while with a guest, so I'm
really honored and excited towelcome today Diego Herrera.
So Diego is the director ofbusiness development at

(00:25):
Ineffable Records, but he alsohas done some work with Pandora
and I really want to get intohis career path and he just told
me he's from Costa Rica, sowe're gonna get into all the
things about Diego.
Welcome Diego, welcome to thefamily.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thank you so much and I am also honored and excited
to be here speaking with you.
Like you didn't check, checkingfor this podcast for a long
time and just everything you do,so you know.
Thanks so much for having me on.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, another digital connection.
I feel like we've beenfollowing each other for a while
and just haven't had the chanceto one meet in person and two
connect offline.
So I'm so excited that we aredoing this today, but you were
telling me that you are fromCosta Rica.
So I'm so excited that we aredoing this today, but you were
telling me that you are fromCosta Rica.
So let's go back to Costa Rica.
Tell me how you grew up and howyou came to the States.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, so born in Costa Rica.
You know, both my parents arefrom there and I am, you know,
first generation immigrant.
Interestingly enough, my, myparents, like came over and my
sister, my older sister, wasborn here in the states and then
, when they moved back, I wasborn there and then they said,
well, we got to get back to thestates.
So we went back to the stateseventually, yeah, and then you

(01:33):
know, kind of life was just, youknow, living between two worlds
, like moving between californiain the bay area, I live in
oakland and costa rica I'mHeredia.
So that was kind of life.
It was just interesting to bebetween two worlds.
I think maybe some of yourpodcast listeners can relate to
and understand that kind oftraveling between I hate these

(01:55):
terms, but the first world andthe third world and kind of
seeing the differences.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yes, I hate that, especially in a first world
quote unquote country.
It's like coded in third worldyeah, exactly, exactly right.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
But yeah, so growing up in both it was, you know,
speaking about the musicalcomponent of it it was really
interesting to be exposed to allkinds of music on both sides.
I mean, I I'm a child of the80s, so grew up here and I
remember like hearing run dmcfor the first time and and
hearing michael jackson when Iwas a kid, and then going back
to costa rica and it'd be likeyou know, uh, ruben blades and

(02:32):
it would be celia cruz.
And also costa rica isbasically in the caribbean.
You know it's central americancountry but there is like a
heavy caribbean influence there,especially being right next to
pan Panama, where there was alot of immigration that happened
in regards to the constructionof Panama Canal, and this big
influence that you know infusedthe Atlantic side of the Central

(02:56):
American countries in that area.
So you know, in the same breaththey're in the same kind of like
listening space.
You'd be hearing, you know,music from Bob Marley.
You'd be hearing, like you knowthe same kind of like listening
space.
You'd be hearing, you know,music from Bob Marley.
You'd be hearing, like you knowthe rate artists of the
eighties.
You'd be hearing, uh, what theearly reggaeton sounds and I
always fondly recall uh, theyhad like one of those video box

(03:17):
type shows on you know TV wherelike an hour out of the day they
would just show music videos.
This is before youtube and those.
You know all the, all the stuffwe have now where you can
instantaneously watch stuff.
You had to like actually tunein and watch these videos.
And um, I remember seeing umback to back when I was a kid,
the video for muevelo by elgeneral, right next to old dog

(03:40):
by beanie man in this videocountdown.
So that's kind of like whatlife was like.
And and then you know comingback to the States and you're
getting all these otherinfluences and my parents were
also kind of like, you know,hippies, like rocker kids, so
like my dad was actually verymuch into rock music and kind of
like absorbed that influencefrom him.
That was like early life andthat I think has kind of set the

(04:01):
foundation for where my musicalinterests would go through my
young adulthood and into myadult years.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, I went to Costa Rica a few years ago.
I went to Guanacaste and I wassurprised when we went out like
almost every night and I hearddancehall and reggae every night
that we went out.
It was my first time in a LatinAmerican country besides Mexico
and I just didn't expect itbecause I had never experienced

(04:30):
it.
But I was pleasantly surprised,had such an amazing time and I
think that travel element reallyopens up the cultural
experiences in exchange to kindof really understanding what
people say when they say likewell, we listen to that kind of
music here and you're like, well, you don't really grasp it, but
to be able to experience it wasso beautiful and I had such an

(04:54):
amazing time.
So tell me about how you gotinto the music business here.
Like what was your 20s?
Like how did you start?
And you're like I want to domusic.
What led to that?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
yeah, I mean I've always been interested in music
as a listener, right first andforemost.
I just always seem to really betuned into music.
Even now, one of theinteresting moments I
continually have in this likeworld of on-demand streaming and
just instant access toeverything, is being constantly

(05:26):
transported back to moments inmy in my younger days, vis-a-vis
like a song.
You know what I mean.
Like I'm like, oh, I rememberexactly where I was when I heard
this song in the 80s, whatever.
You know, I referenced umearlier, run dmc.
I remember hearing tricky forthe first time and I was like I
had heard it and was like ridingon my bike as a kid and I

(05:46):
remember crashing my bikebecause I was kind of like so
distracted, like thinking ofthis song.
You know, that was like kind ofthe start for me is just that I
was always interested in music.
I just always had music in myhead.
And then, you know, when I wasin grade school, middle school,
I started kind of like taking onmore of an interest.
My parents tried putting us inpiano lessons but they didn't

(06:07):
really like take for me.
But then I picked up a guitarone day and that was it, like I
just ran with it, you know,started being really interested
in performing music.
I was like, in middle school Ieven did like choir for like
half a year, you know.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Let me find out.
You got some singing chops.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
You know we'll go to karaoke sometime.
I'll find out.
You got some singing chops.
Uh, you know what?
we'll go to karaoke sometimeI'll show you a thing or two.
Yes, yeah, but even like thechoir experience, which is is
something I had kind of justrecently, like just popped back
in my head that's, that wasanother kind of one of these
like musical moments that stoodout to me as I got into
performing, I started being moreinterested in, you know, kind
of like exploring all theseother things.
I was in like punk rock band,started listening to him playing

(06:45):
reggae, like I've beenlistening to reggae earlier than
that, but I think in my teensis like really where you know,
like I connected with it.
Um, I remember hearingbarrington levy, you know, and
just being kind of mystified byhis voice and even the
production sound, and it wasjust like drums and bass, you
know.
I was like whoa, this is just sokind of different, even than
bob marley, you know, becausebob marley is just very like big

(07:06):
.
There's a big kind of like bandsound to it and you hear this
like the early dance hall fromthe 80s and some of the songs
just literally stripped down tolike a couple of instruments
with, like you know, theengineer mixing in tracks and or
mixing in the other elements ofthe songs, and so that was kind
of to me was the awakeningmoment for kind of reconnecting
again to my experience, likebeing in Costa Rica and being

(07:28):
exposed to like these differentstyles of reggae, kind of
peripherally.
But then you know, when you'rein your teens and it's kind of
like a formative time for you,right, it's kind of like part of
when you really develop yourpersonality and I think that was
kind of a moment for me thatreally happened during that
development and stuck and sothat's kind of where it's been
for me since then for the mostpart.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
So you really are, at this time, focused on the
performing arts and being infront of people.
When did you decide to be morebehind the scenes?
To be more behind the scenes?

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, in my early 20s I did do some radios like
college radio, local radio stylestuff at a station called KFJC
and I had a radio show there forfour years.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
I'm a radio kid myself.
I did radio in college too.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, we're a special group.
I think it was eye-opening tome in the sense that you know,
you kind of get to see the magicbehind the curtain or you know
how it happens.
Like you know, when you listento the radio you don't really
realize how much stuff ishappening operationally.
It's just kind of it justhappens right.

(08:41):
But when you're actually behindthe board and you're the one you
know queuing up ads or you knowstation ids, and then you're
also keying up the music and youkind of are like this octopus
and then you have to get on themic and actually like back
announce and you have to.
You know like be composed andhow you speak and deliver the
kind of performance part ofradio for the listener.

(09:03):
I think that experience waspretty invaluable and I think,
like you know, part of mymusical journey and my journey
in the industry has been tryingout a lot of different things.
So even, you know, producing myown shows, some audio
engineering type stuff.
I also started DJing.

(09:25):
I was like DJing in my twentiesand like I've been a DJ now for
like 20 years, you know.
So show promotion and kind ofeverything that comes along with
those things and then also, ofcourse, the art of DJing itself,
you know.
So all of that eventually led towhen I got the opportunity to
apply to be on the music team atPandora and I didn't have much,

(09:47):
let's say, like priorexperience in the sense of you
know I hadn't worked at a DSP oranything like that before that,
but I did, you know, had toundergo the trial by fire which
was the interview process there.
It was like a very long and kindof drawn out interview process
and they basically, you know,had confidence that I would at

(10:09):
least be able to handle at thetime what was like the librarian
stuff, you know.
And so that's where I startedthere and eventually, you know,
just did what I was supposed tobe doing for that part of the
job, which was it was likelibrary maintenance.
You know what I mean to bedoing for that part of the job,
which was it was like librarymaintenance.
You know what I mean.
It was acquiring music.
It was, you know, tending tometadata, doing all the similar

(10:29):
to the radio, like doing all thekind of like unsexy things
behind the scenes that make fora good listener experience on
the front end, you know.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Give us the details of the unsexy.
I feel like you know from theoutside, looking in the industry
looks extremely sexy, but thereare so many different
opportunities behind the scenesas well.
So when you say library, I'massuming that's like catalog
management, like the singles andthe album.
So like, what did you have todo exactly?

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, I think that it was.
It was exactly that I meanthere were.
At the very beginning.
It was literally that I wouldget a sheet of failed catalog
searches, like the searches thatthat listeners made that
resulted in like no result, andit would be everything.
It would be like Japanese mathrock and it would be, you know,

(11:22):
easy listening, and it might belike a jazz album, but just a
big sheet of stuff.
And this is at the would be youknow, easy listening and it
might be like a jazz album, butjust a big sheet of stuff.
And this is at the time when,you know, pandora was still
hadn't really developed acontent like pipeline system.
There was one, but it was.
It was not as refined as whatit would eventually be, and so
we were actually, in these earlydays, like actually purchasing
music and uploading it to alibrary and then, um, to do that

(11:47):
, you know, like before, youwould complete the upload, you
do the unsexy, like metadatapart and we had metadata
standards.
You know that the company hadthat basically mirrored what was
supposed to be happening on thefront end.
You didn't want like weirdcharacters or anything like that
appearing for listeners.
You know when they look and seeoh what's the song, you know it
might have like some weirdampersand or something thrown in

(12:07):
there.
So we'd have to go in and doall that metadata maintenance by
hand.
You know we're talking aboutdozens of titles, you know, just
from that one sheet that Iwould get you know, to work off
of.
And then there was, you know,the other thing which was like
kind of like the research right,we used to call it radars where
you would, you know, I'd belike, hey, what kind of music
should we be pulling in?

(12:27):
Like who's trending, who's hot,who's an interesting artist?
And you go and grab.
Maybe if they had catalog musicthat was out that we hadn't yet
put into our system, you mightgrab that and bring it all in,
you know.
So that's kind of actually ledto, kind of opened the door for
me in terms of eventually takingon the role of, like, head of
Caribbean content at Pandora,which was my love, my musical

(12:52):
love, you know, was that I.
I love, you know, everythingCaribbean related.
You know, like all the, all themusic, and so I saw there was
gaps in in the catalogs for alot of artists.
And so what, what I was doingwas on my, you know, it's like
on my spare, the spare time thatI had, I would be like
completing those artistscatalogs.
You know I'll be like, oh okay,what do we have from Beanie man

(13:14):
?
You know, like, what do we nothave from Beanie man?
Like, I want to make sure thiscatalog is complete.
And yeah, so that led to thekind of like the earliest
opportunities when the heads ofthe department came to me and
said, hey, you seem to know thismusic really well and you seem
to be connected, you know, tothe history of it, the culture
of it.
So like, why don't we get youstarted working on some of these
stations?

Speaker 1 (13:35):
So we have you to thank for this extensive catalog
that we have on Pandora.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, well for sure, early on,
eventually, the they developed acontent delivery system that
was much more refined and it wasthat was essentially.
You know, what was happeningwith every dsp was, yeah, you
know, the idea of like, oh, Idon't know if you remember this,
but there was like kind of likethe.
There was a period of time whenall the dsps were bragging

(14:02):
about how much music they had.
You know, I was.
I was like, oh, we boast overyou know, 30 million titles or
whatever.
But the reality of it was thateverybody had pretty much
everything, assuming, you know,they had made the deals with all
the different distributors andlabels.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
All right, so tell me how that transitioned into your
role currently.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, so as time went on and I was doing more and
more programming and I was kindof working on the artist
marketing side more, uhexplicitly, and I'm developing
more direct relationships withpeople.
I was at pandora for almost 10years, you know.
So there was a chunk of timewhere I was kind of like just
doing the library stuff and kindof behind the scenes and it

(14:44):
eventually evolved into beingmore in front and trying to like
do what I was really kind oflike run down what I saw as
great opportunities to connectwith artists and provide
visibility and to expand thelistenership on pandora.
And I had this philosophy ofkind of like I want listeners to

(15:05):
have the experience that ifthey come and listen to here and
they search for anything, nomatter what it is in these
genres, that they're going to beable to find it, and not just
that, but they'll be able tofind some sort of editorial
option.
So I really wanted to havethere be an experience for
anyone who was going to listenon Pandora that if they went and
wanted to listen to jab soka,there'd be a whole jab soka

(15:27):
station for them to listen to.
There'd be like a playlist ormultiple playlists or if they
wanted to listen to like womenin reggae and just really like
dive into that.
But there's also a station andplaylist and it's representative
, you know, and then, dependingon the size of the you let's say
like the demand for anyparticular thing, there might be
multiple options.
And then that evolved into themore kind of marquee, kind of

(15:54):
listening branded opportunities.
You know, launching stationslike Pull Up, which is all
supposed to be brand new dancehall, all supposed to be brand
new dance hall, and you know theidea was just get like the
hottest new stuff on it and alsohave artists represented.
You know, like with the stationtakeovers, and you know we did
stuff with like spice and Ithink we did one with cranium,

(16:15):
um, we did one with shaggy, youknow, ultimately just really
trying to kind of like fill thisout so that there was there was
a really like excellentlistening experience for anyone
that came to platform Afterdoing that for a number of years
.
You know, basically Pandora,like many other DSPs, decided to
slim down the workforce, so Igot caught up in, you know, like
wave three or four, whatever itwas of the layoffs, you know,

(16:39):
which you know.
In hindsight, you know, it mayhave been time.
I was already there for nearlya decade and while I was
comfortable, it was kind of likea great opportunity for me to
say, well, what else is thereout there for me to do?
You know, I've already done allthese other things.
I've done performance, I'vedone DJing, I've done show
promotion, I've done some radio.
I've, you know, had thisamazing time at Pandora, working

(17:06):
at a dsp.
Like what else in the industryis out there, I think the you
know, the reality of themarketplace is that all the dsps
are slimming down pretty much,uh, in every way and trying to
run um, I don't know, I guessthe corporate term would be like
run more efficiently orsomething like that.
Yes, um more work and less, less, less dollars yeah that's

(17:27):
probably gets a little bit moreof that later, but, um, but yeah
, so you know, over the over theyears I just built up like some
really great relationships andand had a, you know, a really uh
, flattering response to when Iannounced that I was not going
to be at pandora anymore andthere there were some
opportunities that becameimmediately available to me and
there was some other stuff thatI kind of looked into and

(17:48):
explored and weighed my optionsand Ineffable just seemed like a
really great fit.
It really seemed like a placewhere I could come in and really
pursue the things that I thinkwere going to be the most
interesting to me, which werehelping a company develop more
on the business side, but thenalso working directly with
artists and, um, helping developprojects.

(18:10):
You know, in particular, thatwas something that um adam, the
president of ineffable, and Ihad talked about, um, very
explicitly was.
Like you know, I want to becloser to the kind of the
nucleus of the company and likethe decision making and kind of
like trying to figure out thedirection of where this company,
you know, is going to go in thenext few years.
But also I still want to beworking hands on with people and

(18:33):
and there, there's thatcreative side to me.
I really, um, I have such anadmiration and appreciation for
the artists and everything thatthey put into the music and, um,
I wanted to like continue that,that path to of having a
creative contribution.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
It sounds like you probably have at least gone from
this very structured and youkind of know what you're going
to do to this now creative spaceof not doing whatever you want
to do.
Like you get to decide how, howlittle or how much you are
investing in a particularproject from beginning to end.

(19:12):
Are my assumptions correct?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, I mean, working in a corporate environment is
interesting.
I don't know that I ever ahundred percent, really ever fit
into it, because I still in mytime there always had this kind
of like working I don't know ona street level mentality.
You know what I mean.
At the time that I was doing myjob at Pandora, I was still
doing my own events and, and youknow, uh was still doing my own

(19:37):
events and you know, showpromoting and I'd be, you know,
at night, like going and puttingup flyers to get people to the
event.
So I still had this kind ofhungry mentality that didn't
always, I think, connect withthe kind of the seemingly cool,
calm, collected, organizedfacade that I think a lot of the
you know the corporateenvironment emphasizes Coming to

(19:59):
Ineffable.
I think for me has been anamazing experience because it's
not corporate, it's anindependent company.
You're actually able to speakdirectly to like and be part of
the top decision making team.
You know as related to thedirection of a project or
direction of the company andultimately, you know, being that

(20:21):
close I think makes all thedifference to me.
I think, when you work at acorporation, for as valuable as
you may be made to to feel atany given point.
Um, at the end of the day,you're still a number on a
spreadsheet and I think that itis evident in what's happening
across the industry, every dsp,and even outside of the music

(20:45):
industry.
You see the same thinghappening at a lot of other
companies, uh, large companiesthat have employed.
You know tens of thousands ofpeople that you know jobs are
basically valued only to acertain extent as it affects the
bottom line.
You know.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
So not to get you know too serious here, but I
think being at Ineffable is verydifferent.
It feels a lot more like thewords and the contribution are
valued in a way different way.
So it's not to, like you know,talk down on my experience at
Pandora.
I loved being there, but it wastime to do something else,
whether I decided it myself ornot.
But it has ended up being anamazing transformation for me.

(21:24):
I feel very lucky.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
So you touched on a good topic.
It's really like the musicindustry and it's just
condensing year after year interms of just people and teams.
Um like, what are your thoughtson the industry?
I mean, there are definitelyless labels, more artists, more

(21:48):
music, and so it is somewhatswitched on its head due to the
easy accessibility to onetechnology and to the access to
distribution.
Yeah, so what are your thoughtson the current state of not

(22:10):
just Caribbean music industrybut just the music industry as a
whole?

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean, that's a big question.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
That's a loaded question, I know.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
I think there's a number of different ways to look
at that.
You know, to kind of answerthat question, if you're going
to go cup half full, let's sayyeah.
For any artists right now it'sway easier, from wherever you
are, to get your music to aperson anywhere in the world,
whereas in the past it was likethose opportunities you had to

(22:41):
have either independent fundingor work with a label or be
fortunate enough to work with adistributor to get your music to
people.
Now it's as easy as uploadingsomething and then somebody in
France or somebody in India canpull up your music and listen to
it.
I think on the other side of itright if you look at it there

(23:01):
are still some incrediblechallenges and I think that the
challenges really have more todo with capturing people's
attention and the volume ofmusic that comes out.
Volume of music that comes outnow because, since there are
less you know barriers to getover to actually distribute your
music internationally.

(23:22):
Along with that, the ability torecord easily at home you know
you don't need to have a tenthousand dollar.
You know an hour studio orwhatever it is you know to
actually like put together agood and and thoughtful album.
But the volume of the musicmakes it much more difficult.
I mean, just reading theilluminate report from this year

(23:44):
and they were saying there wasan average of like 90 000 songs,
or 99 000 songs, that wereuploaded to dsps every day last
year.
Now the reality of it is thatthe vast majority of that stuff
is not really heard.
I think, like I was looking atthe number that they also
provided about, you know, theyhave this kind of like this

(24:04):
listening pyramid and really,you know, the top 10 to 20,000
songs, I think are the ones thatactually are like doing the
bulk of streaming, and a lot ofthose are catalog as well as
like the top currents, you know,and then the the bottom,
whatever.
It is like 90 million tracks orsomething like that.
I can't.
I I'm totally misquoting thenumber.

(24:24):
I wish I had, I wish I had itin front of me, but those have
gotten less than like a hundredspins, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
So I think that it is a big challenge for anyone
trying to release music rightnow to cut through all the noise
, not just like the music, butalso you know what's happening
on Netflix and sports and TikTokand social media and politics
and capture people's attention.
You know, I think, is thebiggest, the biggest challenge
right now.
Once the ability to distributeinternationally with pretty much

(24:56):
nearly instantaneous ease ishappening, then it becomes like
okay, well, how do you separateyourself from those 99,000
tracks that you're gettinguploaded each day?

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Do you think that the investment that traditionally
artists would spend on creatingthe project is now moving into
their hands to market any of theproject singles that they're
working on?
So, for example, now it doesn'tcost ten thousand dollars to
make a studio album, but youprobably have to become a
content creator and spend fivethousand dollars on content

(25:30):
creation tools to an executionor a team or something like.
The money that they're spendingis just shifting and the onus
is now more on the artist thanthe label.
So what is the role of labelsand artists in today's industry?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
I mean I think that depends on the label and the
artist.
First off.
I mean it's hard for me tospeak to any other label
experience.
I haven't worked at any otherlabels.
I think, from looking at thingsfrom the ineffable side of I
think what we are interested isworking with artists who have a
vision, who understand that ittakes kind of like a consistent

(26:14):
amount of pressure to reach andgrow your audience and that are
interested in the long game notnecessarily short, you know,
kind of like investment andrewards.
You know we view a lot of thesethings as kind of like who's
the right person to work with?
You know, who do we think isgoing to invest time, effort and
kind of mirror what we'retrying to bring to the table?
Who can fill in the gaps?

(26:34):
You know who do we think isgoing to invest time, effort and
kind of mirror what we'retrying to bring to the table?
Who can fill in the gaps?
You know that that we have, orwhere can we work with an artist
to fill in the gaps that theyhave, you know, in their
repertoire, to like make surethat when we're coupled together
that we're working at like inthe optimal way.
You know, yeah, I think, uh,you know broadly that artists

(26:57):
probably are dealing with labels, uh, primarily for budget, uh,
primarily for connections.
But having a budget doesn'tnecessarily make a project
successful.
It actually really starts fromwhat the artist contributes,
right, which is their creativeenergy.
It has to do with the effortthat they're going to put into

(27:18):
to continue to connect withtheir audience.
Uh, it has to do with, um, youknow, being open to
collaboration, being open tohearing our ideas, in the same
way that we need to be open to,you know, following the artist's
lead.
It's a bit, it's a bit of adance.
You know what I mean.
Um, instead of there being likeone person leading, it's kind
of like all right, you know,like, whose turn is it to steer

(27:41):
our dance steps here?
You know what I mean.
I think your question about,like you know, the, the budgets
and shifting and like, is theonus on artists to um, take
those budgets, kind of put themin different places.
You know for sure there's achange, in a similar way to how

(28:04):
music distribution has becomemuch easier.
You know, the ability topromote yourself has become
easier.
I mean, we're all walkingaround with these, basically
like supercomputers that act aslike billboards or like personal
little billboards, right?
So much so that we've allforgotten, like, when you pop
this thing open, nearly half thetime the first thing you see is
an ad.
If you open Instagram these days, probably half the time when
you open it up, the first thingyou see might not be your best

(28:26):
friend's post.
It might be like something fromCostco or something like that,
saying, hey, we have thosecouches that you're interested
in.
So you know, we're now able tolike do highly targeted ads that
can reach consumers in waysthat previously you know, in the
music industry, we're not ableto do.
And similarly with, like youknow, developing content.

(28:48):
We're like on the verge ofTikTok shutting down right or
potentially being shut down inthe United States.
Tiktok has grown to be like thismonster for the music industry
in terms of raising awareness ofreleases, and some of that is
viral, some of that isengineered, but there's no doubt

(29:08):
that, like you know, artistsinvesting in things like social
media, having a part of yourteam if you have a team, be that
person that helps you developcontent for TikTok that stuff
has become really important tothe artist's repertoire to like
get their music out to fans andto have people discover their
music more.

(29:29):
I think a recent example, asuccess story on the ineffable
side for us, was with Coco T andKes, where, you know, kes
really wasn't too active onTikTok but we quickly realized
once that song was released, aspeople started to kind of use
the Coco T sound more and more,that there was an opportunity to

(29:50):
like, lean in on his side andmake that go viral.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
I love that example, especially because I saw it pop
around the holiday time.
And traditionally we have cocoatea for Christmas special
occasions, and it's not to beconfused with hot chocolate.
It's not the same.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
I saw that, along with the concert that he had in
Brooklyn and everyone dancingoutside in the cold it was like
one of the coldest days here inNew York and everyone had just
emptied out the.
I think it was the Paramount.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, and the video of everyone dancing after they
had already been dancing at hisconcert was just as equally, you
know, a great follow up to justall the exposure that I saw
around the single itself, so Ithought that was exciting.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, I think you know Kes really leaned into that
moment and you know theexuberance that people have had
almost instantly for that songis incredible.
It's interesting how it justlike immediately started to
dominate the consciousness.
I mean, I think it speaks to anumber of things like the power
of Kes's songwriting, along withthe other songwriters you know

(31:13):
who assist on that theproduction, but then also kind
of like the infectious and likewonderful nature of Soka music
and the just like the joy thatcomes from that music.
Right, it is all about joy.
And when you see that crowd ofpeople standing outside of the
Paramount singing that songafter the show, just kind of

(31:33):
continuing to bring that energy,you know I mean that's it,
that's what it's all about,that's the magic that I think
like artists are really tryingto create.
Going back to the TikTok thing,I think you know it really
helped him to lean into thatsocial media platform.
To date, I think the latestnumber is the videos that he
generated have been viewed 168million times and there have

(31:57):
been 193,000 plus videocreations using the Cocoa Tea
sound.
Yeah, I think that outweighsand dwarfs, you know, like what
is happening on other platforms.
So that kind of is oneillustration, potentially, of
you know, like the importance ofleaning in where you see
something working already, right, like we're talking about, like

(32:20):
are we shifting budget awayfrom you know things we might
have done traditionally, whichyou know like, maybe like street
team, or you know, likepublication ads or something
like that, and instead puttingthem into these social media
outlets?
Absolutely like, that stuffneeds to happen for artists to
be successful, for theirprojects, projects to be
successful.
But it has to be done in theright way, you know, because
it's not just like, oh, we justdump money willy nilly into

(32:41):
social media content and that'sgoing to make it work.
It absolutely not, because thenit becomes that Costco ad that I
was talking about earlier,which is not personalized.
It doesn't feel genuine.
Everything that kes and theteam decided to put together was
conceptualized.
On their side, it was somethingthat he felt good about.
Um, he's obviously like anincredibly like charming and and

(33:02):
like fun person to watch and tosee interacting.
So if it's not genuine and itdoesn't come from the heart or
the soul, people are not stupid,you know.
I mean, they're gonna sniffthat stuff out right away and
they're going to say like, oh,this is.
This is the ad for Coco T,instead of it being like oh look
at Kes having fun.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Look at him having fun talking about this new song.
Is blowing up.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
So you, you talked about TikTok we have to discuss,
like at the time that we'rerecording this, it might be
banned in a couple days, but itmight not be.
Um, have you guys been talkingabout what that transition plan
is gonna look like?
Because it's, I mean, for rightnow it's just the states.
Um, it's still probably goingto be available outside of the

(33:47):
us.
Specifically, how does thatchange?
Um, from a musicdiscoverability perspective?

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, I mean there's no doubt that TikTok has become
really important for the musicindustry as a whole, but my
answer to that would be it wasnever the only thing that people
should be paying attention to.
I think one of theconversations that we try to
have with artists is that youneed to be active everywhere you

(34:16):
know, because if you only focuson one place and putting all of
your, your effort into, likeone part of your audience, the
other audience is going tosuffer and start to diminish and
not see your content as much.
And it is important.
It's kind of like you know, ifI sell content as much and it is

(34:37):
important.
It's kind of like you know if Isell I don't know a jacket or a
shirt or something like thatlike I don't want that to just
be exclusively a one store.
You know I want that to beavailable everywhere and I want
to be telling people that theycan get it anywhere.
And at the same thing goes formusic.
You know I hate to talk aboutmusic in those terms of kind of
like the store, but you know youhave to make sure that it's
available in every store and youhave to make sure that you're
telling people that they canfind it everywhere.

(34:58):
And you have to make sure thatyou're addressing people in the
places where they are.
Not everybody uses every service.
Not everybody uses Spotify.
Not everybody uses Instagram.
You know what I mean.
You know some people use snap alot and some people use um only
tiktok, and so you know, yes,there there's going to be an
impact, um, the explosivevirality of tiktok and the, the

(35:23):
way that it serves music up topeople.
Um has been um an interesting,you know, recent dynamic and
recent development of the musicindustry.
Uh, however, you know, if itgoes away, that just means that
you have to like find youraudiences wherever they are
after that and and put you know,put your time and effort into

(35:44):
connecting with them.
And I also think, you know, Ifeel like, because people are,
you know, themselves have a biastowards using like a certain
platform that they're not often,you know, considering what's
happening over here, you know,from the label side of things
that are inevitable, we try asmuch as possible to educate

(36:06):
ourselves and become, like veryfamiliar with as many of the
platforms as we can, and reallybe like monitoring those things
as we go along with our releasesto see what is working and and
that's where we, you know, whenwe see a spike and we see
something, you know that is aviral moment happening.
It might not be to the tune of,let's say, like a Cocoa Tea,
where you're talking about themillions of listeners.

(36:27):
But if we see, for instance,like on Shazam in a country, in
Ghana, or something like that,that your song is getting you
know X amount of Shazams overindexing, above and beyond like
any other country, then we mightgo oh, okay, maybe it's time
for you to collaborate with anartist in that country on your
next, you know, release.

(36:48):
Or maybe, you know, this iswhere we put some additional ad
spend on boosting that video tothose listeners in that country,
because it might actually, youknow, this is where we put some
additional ad spend on boostingthat video to those listeners in
that country because it mightactually, you know, lead to you
having a spike in your audiencethere, you know.
So it's difficult, I think, forartists, or really any creative,
to be that involved in theminutia of every one of these

(37:10):
platforms, and that's where weare, like you know, trying to
help a lot of the times is tokind of point these things out
and say there's an opportunityhere.
Or, at the same time, if theysee something and they say, hey,
there's, we see this happeningover here.
That's like great.
Let's double down on that andsee what we can do in that area.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
I like that.
It's almost like you're kind ofmonitoring one where consumers
are kind of interacting and twowhere artists are kind of
meeting their community in thatinteraction.
So I think that that is apretty good strategy.
Gears and talk a little bitabout streaming and and I guess

(37:50):
playlist curation is probablysomething you're really familiar
with how have those two thingskind of changed over the last, I
would say, three to five years?

Speaker 2 (38:02):
okay, um, yeah, I think the dsps, uh for one, are
moving away from the humancurator and we've seen that
almost across the board.
This, in particular, I think hasbeen really impactful in the
past couple of years in regardsto reggae, dance, halsoca,
caribbean music in general.
When you don't have the peoplein the building who have an

(38:26):
affinity for and understandingof the history, the culture, the
trends of the music where it'sat now, where it's been, even
you know, thinking down the line, like who are the artists of
the future that are worth youknow, kind of like trying to
highlight and put some emphasison, it becomes much more
difficult for your genre or yourmusic to reach people on these

(38:50):
platforms.
I think that you start to seeyour genre or your music to
reach people on these platforms.
I think that you start to see Idon't like using the term
gatekeeping in this context, butthere is a certain kind of gate
that gets closed and it becomesvery hard to get through the
gate when you don't have someonewho's inside advocating in it

(39:13):
in some way.
I think a lot of that stuff isdriven, unfortunately, by the
market.
It's driven by, um, the size ofthe audience and um, I think,
uh, you know, in regards to likethis is this is something that
you kind of touched on a littlebit earlier that I don't think
we addressed directly.
But when you're talking about,like, what is the state of the

(39:34):
music industry for the caribbean, um, I think that there's
probably like two things toconsider or a few.
There's a number of things toconsider, but one of the things
I would kind of like impart onpeople is like one be um
thoughtful of, like the size ofthe audience, right, there's
been a lot of discussion aboutthe growth of Afro beats and the
growth of, you know, latinmusic, and part of the reason

(39:56):
that there's been growth in allthose areas is because the
audience sizes are considerablylarger.
There's more people in just inAfrica, right, like, consuming
Afro beats than there may be,you know, in the combined areas
of, like you know of Jamaica andTrinidad and the small islands
in the Caribbean and beyond that.

(40:16):
So that's one thing to thinkabout.
That's not to say that thereisn't a larger addressable
audience internationally andthat there aren't countries that
over-index in reggae listening.
I'm using reggae as kind oflike the top level genre because
there's kind of I think, morehistorically like more listeners

(40:39):
in that genre.
But you know, over-indexes inFrance, over-indexes in the UK,
germany.
There's a large population ofpeople, either, you know, first
generation or second or beyond,descendants of Caribbeans in the
United States, canada, toronto,like these are all places where
, and then, of course, like youknow as well, in Africa.

(41:01):
You know these are all placeswhere the music is being
listened to and heard and lovedand and really, like you know,
are places where the artistsneed to lean into, you know, and
find their audiences in allthese places.
I think that's kind of leads tomy second point, which, for you
know, the creators in theCaribbean.
I think there needs to be themindset of trying to like think

(41:24):
of how to export the music youknow, think of it as like beyond
, kind of like like justpointing inward and saying, like
I really want to reach myaudience and like, yes,
absolutely like, you have to beaddressing your core, but you
also have to be like thinkingabout, like where are all the
places where I have audiences?
That, um, I need to kind oflike put some extra attention to

(41:47):
one of the um, the sections inthe illuminate report that I
referred to earlier was aboutwhich countries have, kind of
like, the highest index in musicexported to other countries and
like where it's being consumedthe most right um, the united
states, of course, like stillreigns as like the top exporter

(42:09):
of music, meaning, like you know, music written and created by
people from here that goes toother and is consumed in other
countries.
But um, we're starting to see ashift and like that you know,
for instance, um korea, uh isstarting to see a big explosion
in terms of uh exportation ofmusic.
India.
These are countries, like youknow, considerable um sizes of

(42:34):
people, but um, I think it'salso the mindset of some of
those artists in terms of likewe need to like get our music to
other places and like reallyhave our music embraced by other
people internationally andputting as much importance into
that as um you know, likefinding um that success with

(42:55):
your local core audience.
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not if I'mlike off track now.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
I think in a lot of ways I've been um talking about
the idea of crossover, not justbeing to the U?
S but looking to Latin Americaand even Africa, because our
music is streamed in so manydifferent places.
I think what it means tocrossover is verygae and dance

(43:32):
hall and soca, like where it'snot just one market.
You know that you're kind oflooking to get into, and so I
think that that is hard to kindof conceptualize if you don't
have a connection there.
You know what I mean.
So I think it's important forgoing back to even my experience
going to costa rica andunderstanding what the market

(43:54):
really looks and feels likeoutside of my one single being a
hit there.
Not that I have a single.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
I don't have a single um what I'm just finding out,
you're recording artists rightnow no I think that's a really
important point and I thinklatin america, to me, is a huge
opportunity for artists in thecaribbean.
Um costa rica, for instancejust using my home as an example

(44:21):
is always one of the topstreaming destinations for
artists from the caribbean.
When we're looking at the data,um, san jose, costa rica, which
is the capital, is like usuallywithin like the top 15 cities
for artist releases, and I thinkthat um there is a great
affinity for caribbean music.

(44:42):
Like in latin america, centralamerica, and like down into you
know, colombia, brazil,argentina, chile, know Colombia,
brazil, argentina, chile, thereare artists who are kind of
like homegrown artists in thoseareas, who do really well and it
wouldn't be a far jump, for Ithink artists from, let's say,

(45:03):
like Jamaica just use onecountry as an example to like
make an effort to try and get tothose audiences down there.
I think that's part and parcel,to kind of like the one of the
other overarching philosophiesof ineffable, which is the idea
of all these kind of placeswhere the music is being played.
It's all part of a largertapestry and the more that we

(45:27):
can find these opportunities toput these artists that are
seemingly from different places,well, they are from different
places but are seemingly, likeyou know, doing different things
, but together on one song orstart to like find opportunities
for them to collaborate in someway.
That actually helps all ofthose artists across the board

(45:49):
increase right.
It helps them increase theiraudience sizes.
I think Adam, who's again who'sthe president of Ineffable, has
really done this prettyincredibly, again, using Kes as
an example Licky Ticky right,which came out, and there's a
song with Jay Puri, produced byMichael Bruin, and it's a Soca

(46:10):
song but it's got a little bitof a Haitian flavor to it and
eventually, like a version wasflipped into, like it was
flipped into a reggae versionthat was produced by J-Vibe and
featured Jay Boog and Maoli fromHawaii, and that song has been
going really strong in theHawaii market since that remix

(46:31):
came out, a place where Kes,really, prior to that, was
pretty much unknown.
That same success story wasrecently produced with Hector
Roots-Lewis, who had a song thatwas coming out on fire and we
were trying to figure out, oh,who would be great to put on
this verse, because he had anopen verse on the song and a lot
of ideas were thrown around andwe kind of landed on jaybug,

(46:53):
and that song is in now one ofthe top shazam songs in hawaii
and is really exposing hector to, like that audience that
previously may not have evenheard of him, you know.
So it opens up the door for him, artists like him, for artists
like kes, where it's like, okay,we have a song that has been
successful here, like, maybe thenext time we're planning out a
tour or something like that, wecan go to Hawaii.

(47:14):
You know, we can actually likedo shows there.
We can do a couple shows there,because we know that we have
the data, that we have howevermany like monthly listeners in
that area, and it all startedbecause of this track.
And then, you know, I like what.
I think the opposite is true aswell.
Like, you know, I like what.
I think the opposite is true aswell.
Like you know, for artists, uh,like stick figure, whether you

(47:34):
know, stick figure has beenreally successful in the united
states.
He's really carved out his ownplace here and built up this
pretty incredible sized audienceto the point where he's like a
billion spinner on pandora justtouring kind of non-stop and
selling out venues all over theplace in the states.
But he's, you know, wants tocollaborate more with people who
are like in other scenes.
And um asked reached out andasked, like barrington levy, to

(47:57):
collaborate with him, an artistthat was very influential for
him, you know, when he wasstarting off making music and
they have a song together, youknow, and then barrington's
performing with him at red rocks, you know, for the sold out
crowd of like thousands ofpeople.
So I think that is that is areally big component of what
we're trying to do is is unifyall these people around the

(48:19):
globe, the biggest artists inall these different areas, and
put them together on one song or, like you know, find some sort
of collaborative space for themand really continue to like,
unify and galvanize the audienceinternationally.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
I think you're one for the examples, because I
think we don't hear enough ofthe examples of collaboration,
of what can be done and what hasbeen done.
We often don't see the statsbecause it's not necessarily in
a billboard article, it's notflashy, but it's specific
examples of where it worked, howit worked and what was done,

(48:58):
and I think we need to see moreof that to also inspire the next
generation of people coming up.
What would you say you'reexcited about in the near future
?
Like, what are you working onthat is exciting for you?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
um, real, I just want to like kind of maybe put like
a little ps on the portion Ijust spoke about there.
I think the collaboration, aswe know, has been happening for
a long time in different waysyes, I agree all the way back to
, like you know, the 70s.
It's like peter tosh is doingsongs with um mick jagger you
know to the 90s, where you knowyou have shabba ranks doing

(49:39):
these or super cat doing thesecrossover tracks with.
I know heavy d is, like you know, from jamaica but you know he
was known in the states as ahip-hop artist, you know, and
like those kind ofcollaborations to the 2000s you
have, when stefani and lady sawdoing these tracks together, um,
you know all the way to otherinstances, like just recently,

(50:00):
junior gong collaborating withum kevin flores or something
like that, who's a you knowcolombian artist trying to reach
into the colombian market.
I mean junior gong, actually agreat example of someone who's
been doing this.
He and Steven have been doingthis their entire career.
Bobby Brown collaborations,black Thought collaborations you
know all that kind of stuffthat they've been doing to
really try to like work withpeople who they're interested in

(50:22):
working with.
And, you know, also beingchildren of a certain age where
you know the influence is cominga little bit from the hip-hop
and R&B and infusing itself withreggae.
I think collaborations in musicin the past 10 years now have
been a thing Everyone knows.
To a certain extent it's kindof a cheat code or whatever, but

(50:43):
I also think it's reallyimportant when it's done from
the heart.
It can only be done similar towhat I was talking about with
social media earlier aboutgetting artists to post in a
genuine way.
I think if the music doesn'tcome from a genuine place when
you're doing thesecollaborations, people are going
to sniff it out and it's justnot going to work.
So it has to really come fromthat place of true collaboration

(51:07):
.
I'll give you one more examplejust to kind of put an
exclamation point on this andthen move on to your last
question.
But one of the songs that Ihelped work on in the past year
was this collaboration betweenSurfer Girl, which is a band
from Southern California, andthey're kind of like if you took
like King Tubby and mashed upwith the Beach Boys, you know

(51:32):
it's kind of like really likesurfy driven pop music, but it's
also very dubby and kind oflike vibey sounding and putting
Surfer Girl together with Kaliaon the track that they did Don't
Go.
And I just knew when I heard itthat in my heart I was like,
you know, I really think thatKhalia would be really great on
this track and I really thinkthat she would catch the vibe of

(51:55):
what the songwriter Carter istrying to convey in this song.
It's a little bit of aheartbreak song.
Yeah, and it was one of thosethings where, sent over the file
for Khalia to check out, she'ssending me voice demos coming
home after the club when she'sin London, like just after

(52:16):
really having connected with thesong, sending it back to Surfer
Girl, having them check it outand like really start to develop
the track, and then, by thetime it finishes, it was like,
yes, that was exactly what I washoping would happen.
They both kind of understoodthe assignment but also just
felt the track in the right way,and I think that that
collaboration is just reallyfantastic and is illustrative of

(52:39):
what we do and what we'retrying to do more of is kind of
like bridge these worlds andkind of create some magic along
the way.
So, as far as like what I'mexcited about in the future, I
think Protégé and Lila Ike.
So, as far as like what I'mexcited about um in the future,
I think protege and lila ik haverecently um started working
with ineffable and being able tohear those projects ahead of

(53:02):
time.
It's kind of one of those thingswhere you're just like, ah, I
want everyone to hear this, youknow, because it is.
Those two are like reallyspecial and pretty amazing
sounding, obviously both prettythoughtful, just driven and
passionate artists who arecreating music from the heart
and are doing it in really kindof just deliberate ways.

(53:26):
It's not like let's just get analbum out.
I think their philosophy islike this can't come out until
it's right, and I'm just reallyexcited about those two.
I've heard some early stufffrom the Movement, which is
another one of the bands that ison the ineffable client roster,
and just some really incrediblestuff there.

(53:47):
They're from here in the UnitedStates and what they're doing
in terms of kind of combiningthe reggae sound with like some
slight electronic music, andthey've been doing this like
throughout their their career,you know, but I just really see
them as being very boundarybreaking and I really love the
stuff that I'm hearing there andI don't know, I feel like I

(54:08):
just keep going like rattlingoff everyone that's working with
us.
I think we're very fortunate tobe working with a group of
people who are incrediblytalented.
Emily Brimlow is someone elsewho I actually think is worth
mentioning, because Ineffable isvery much, you know, perceived
as a reggae like label and true,like that.

(54:29):
I think, like a lot of theartists on our on our roster,
are reggae for the most part.
Emily is um, a singer,songwriter from la, who
primarily does, you know, kindof like pop music and but is
just an incredible songwriter.
And, uh, she caught adam'sattention via a post on

(54:51):
instagram where she was singingan unreleased song called I Fall
in Love Too Easily and it justimmediately captured his
attention.
And then also, that video cliphappened to go viral despite the
song not having even beenreleased yet.
So, you know, reached out andnow she like working with
inevitable and the stuff thatshe's writing is just really

(55:13):
fantastic.
I think if you appreciate goodsongwriting, no matter what the
genre, then you should youshould check her music out
awesome.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Well, we're already like an hour into our
conversation and I feel like wecould go another hour, but I'm
not gonna take up all your time.
So you have such an extensivecatalog of music love that I
have to ask these questions.
All right, so what are youplaying?
When is the question?
What are you playing when?

(55:43):
When you're getting ready to goout, what are you listening to?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
what am I playing when I'm getting ready to go out
?

Speaker 1 (55:50):
yes, and it doesn't have to be dance hall.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
But okay, all right, all right, yeah all right, yeah,
I mean, uh, I listen to dancehall, probably primarily.
That's like what I listen tothe most of and all, all kinds
of you know, like every era ofit, um, you know, from brand new
stuff to you know old school,original stuff.
I mean, again, I'm the child ofthe 80s and 90s so like, to a

(56:15):
certain extent, like I alwayshave to go back and listen to my
general degrees and you knowsham and that whole era, you
know.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
But yeah, love, love, dancehall for sure okay, all
right, so there's a dinner partyat your house.
What's on your playlist?

Speaker 2 (56:32):
that kind of depends what who's coming over, don't
you think?
very true, very true, friends,friends, friends, uh yeah, I
mean, if it's some people that Iwant to like chat with and like
kick back with, I usually puton some instrumental music.
So like, for instance, I mightput on a combination of dub and

(56:54):
I'm not just saying that becauseI'm like, oh, mr Reggae,
whatever, but I do lovelistening to dub reggae a lot so
I might put on a combination ofdub and maybe some low-key
salsa and cumbia and stuff inthe background.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
OK.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I also really love this band who's gotten to be
pretty big now.
Um, they're called crogbin andthey're just like this
instrumental trio and they dolike it's like a combination
between surf, rock and funk andkind of like international sound
, like guitar sounds and likehip-hop, laid-back, low-file

(57:32):
style drumming and dubby bassand just really, really
fantastic stuff.
I'm really interested in thembecause I love their guitarist.
I think he's like fantastic andas a guitar player I listen to
that and I'm kind of like, ohgod, is he doing all this stuff?

Speaker 1 (57:46):
you know all right, I'm gonna switch up.
Switch up my last question okayyou're introducing to an
eight-year-old a genre of yourchoice pick any genre and you
want to put this eight-year-oldon to some good music.
What would you play for them?

Speaker 2 (58:07):
okay.
Well, I have a seven-year-old,so this, this okay.
Yeah, this is something I doall the time, but she's a music
head, so it's like she has herlane well, you're her dad, so
I'm I'm assuming she's supposedto be a music head yeah, but
she's got her own lane of musicthat she likes and that she is
like you know, so it's hard forme to actually kind of penetrate

(58:28):
that yes no, just play it.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
I.
I'm the same way, my olderdaughter and even my younger one
.
Even though you don't thinkthat they get it, they're
listening.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Yeah, yeah, what am I ?
How do I introduce it?
I, you know, to be honest withyou, like I would probably try
to play something like Sokka,because it's to me that's kind
of like it's.
It's an easy barrier of entrythere.
You know what I mean like, uh,it's melodic, it's fun, usually,
like you know, high bpm or kindof up tempo, and all the

(59:03):
choruses are like sing-alongchoruses.
I actually have a video of mydaughter, who's now seven, but
like she was, you know, maybe ayear or a year and a half old,
she was still in like her highchair eating and me playing
family, you know, in thebackground and she's like
jumping around in her, you know.
But I I try to play more.

(59:24):
You know I try to play socastuff for her.
I try to play like reggae andshe hasn't really like fully
gotten last genre yet.
Right now she's like in hertaylor swift phase, which I'm
like she's in her swifty era butyou know, actually I'll say
this she uh also really loves umwhat's her name?
uh, charlie xx or xcx so, whichI love too.

(59:48):
So that's kind of like wherewe're meeting in the middle is
like we're having like bratsummer, but also now winter, and
I'm the brat, dad, and she's mydaughter.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, thank you so much, diego.
I had such a great time talkingwith you.
You're always welcome back onthe show anytime, and thank you
so much again.
It was a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Thank you for having me and this is great and I can't
wait to come back.
We'll wrap some more about juststraight up music and do less
industry talk next time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yes, yes, that'll be fun.
I'm going to put that in yourschedule now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Okay, I'm ready.
Let me know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
All right, Until next time Later.