June 30, 2025 • 19 mins
In this powerful episode of The Successful Screenwriter, Geoffrey sits down with Emmy-winning writer and producer Ron Leshem, the mind behind HBO’s Euphoria and Netflix’s new breakout series Bad Boy. Ron shares the incredible 7-year journey it took to bring Euphoria to the U.S., how Hollywood gatekeepers resist originality, and the creative freedom he found working internationally. This is one of the most inspiring episodes yet — especially for writers navigating today’s cautious industry climate.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
00:00 – Ron Leshem joins the show and reflects on adapting Euphoria for HBO
01:05 – The 7-year uphill battle to sell Euphoria in the U.S.
06:53 – From Israeli prison journalism to the creation of Bad Boy
10:45 – Revealing the real story behind the main character of Bad Boy
12:01 – Ron’s unfiltered advice for writers in today’s Hollywood
17:58 – Why solitude and leadership both define the modern showrunner
About the Guest:
Ron Leshem is an Emmy-winning writer and producer best known for co-creating Euphoria. A pioneer in adapting international hits for American audiences, his new series Bad Boy is currently streaming worldwide on Netflix. Ron brings a global perspective and fearless storytelling style that sets him apart in today’s TV landscape.
About the Host:
With films on network television, streaming platforms, and in theaters, Geoffrey D. Calhoun is a screenwriter, author of The Guide for Every Screenwriter, and a passionate mentor in the industry. He hosts The Successful Screenwriter podcast to empower writers and filmmakers at every level.
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
🔗 Ron Leshem on IMDb
Connect with Geoffrey D. Calhoun:
🌐 The Successful Screenwriter Website
📸 Instagram: @screenwriterpod
🎬 TikTok: @screenwriterpod
Like what you hear? Follow the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with a fellow writer who needs a reminder that perseverance pays off.
#ScreenwritingTips #Euphoria #BadBoyNetflix #RonLeshem #TheSuccessfulScreenwriter
🎬 Get Free Script Leads — be the first to know which producers are requesting scripts and accepting submissions.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe. Share it with a fellow screenwriter who’d find it valuable!
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- Why Euphoria was rejected by every major U.S. network
- How to stay obsessed with your story when the industry keeps saying no
- The difference between international and Hollywood storytelling
- Why now is the time to write what only you can write
- How Bad Boy evolved from a real story into a global hit
00:00 – Ron Leshem joins the show and reflects on adapting Euphoria for HBO
01:05 – The 7-year uphill battle to sell Euphoria in the U.S.
06:53 – From Israeli prison journalism to the creation of Bad Boy
10:45 – Revealing the real story behind the main character of Bad Boy
12:01 – Ron’s unfiltered advice for writers in today’s Hollywood
17:58 – Why solitude and leadership both define the modern showrunner
About the Guest:
Ron Leshem is an Emmy-winning writer and producer best known for co-creating Euphoria. A pioneer in adapting international hits for American audiences, his new series Bad Boy is currently streaming worldwide on Netflix. Ron brings a global perspective and fearless storytelling style that sets him apart in today’s TV landscape.
About the Host:
With films on network television, streaming platforms, and in theaters, Geoffrey D. Calhoun is a screenwriter, author of The Guide for Every Screenwriter, and a passionate mentor in the industry. He hosts The Successful Screenwriter podcast to empower writers and filmmakers at every level.
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
- Bad Boy on Netflix
- Euphoria on HBO
🔗 Ron Leshem on IMDb
Connect with Geoffrey D. Calhoun:
🌐 The Successful Screenwriter Website
📸 Instagram: @screenwriterpod
🎬 TikTok: @screenwriterpod
Like what you hear? Follow the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with a fellow writer who needs a reminder that perseverance pays off.
#ScreenwritingTips #Euphoria #BadBoyNetflix #RonLeshem #TheSuccessfulScreenwriter
🎬 Get Free Script Leads — be the first to know which producers are requesting scripts and accepting submissions.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe. Share it with a fellow screenwriter who’d find it valuable!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Stuck in Act two, not sure if that twist actually works,
or maybe your characters are just fine. That's where Virtual
Jeffrey comes in. He's a screenwriting assistant we've trained to
help you workshop scenes, fixed pacing, punch up dialogue, or
just get on stuck. If you're a member of the
successful sprint Edder, you've already got access. If not, it
(00:21):
might be time to level up. We have such a
special guest for you guys today. I am so excited.
We've got writer producer Ron Lesham. He is the mastermind
behind Euphoria and he actually championed it here in the
United States because it isn't an Israeli original show. And
he also has a new show carry out on Netflix
(00:42):
called bad Boy. Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Thanks for coming on the show finally, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I am excited, man. I haven't had anyone on the
show yet who had a hit outside of the US
and then brought it to the US and really championed
it like you had to get it re least here
like Redone here and then actually become an Emmy Award
winning show. I mean, it's it's absolutely impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
We usually we were doing these adaptations all over the world,
like taking a format and creating a proof of concept
and traveling with it to Korea, Russia, India, anywhere, like
all over Europe. But of course Hollywood has always been
the dream.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So I was reading that. I mean, you spent about
seven years trying to get Euphoria out here.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah. Yeah, for seven years everyone said no to Euphoria,
and every single executive, every single network had the very
detailed dancer to like White will never have a chance.
It will never be made, including HBO until Casey Blois
and Francesca Rsey took power. But yeah, but you know
what I mean. At the same time, our friends and
(01:50):
then coin Work, we're pitching Stranger Things at the same time,
and everyone said no to Stranger Things, really, and everyone
told them, listen you have Yeah, twenty Networks told them
you should turn it into a show about an FBI
guy coming to town. And when we were a lot
of times executives were telling us, if you make it
more like Skins, the British our comedy, and we said, yeah,
(02:11):
but someone already did Skin, and if we try to
create it more like Skins, we might get a development deal,
but it will never be made. You want to, but yeah,
you FOI went and stranger things again, sol the algorithms
and the mandates and everything. So if you do get
it agreely at the end of the day, you have
a bigger chance of being standing out.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I think it's important for people to hear this, especially
up and coming writers who are who are who are
breaking in or trying to break in because you had
a successful show that was popular in Israel one awards, right,
so you already have like quote street cred, Hey, I
made this happen. We can make this happen again. And
you're still getting met with those cheesy notes of it's
(02:52):
not going to happen. But you stuck to your guns
and I really respect that.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, but you know so it took us seven years.
My producing partners Li Shan and I were just knocking
on every door. But I wasn't feeling sorry for himself
because every time I was meeting people, I met producers
and writers who were waiting for fifteen years with their scripts.
Or I think Matthew Weiner was already an established writer
when he wrote Medmen in nineteen ninety four. It was
(03:18):
made in two thousand and eight, right, And even Aaron
Sarkling had scripts waiting fifteen years to get approved. It's
not but and you know, for me, the obsession was
because somehow my first writing jobs were on espionage and
war stories or anti war stories. So at that point,
(03:40):
every time I was stepping in I already moved to
the US, I was my home was Boston already, and
I was knocked on doors in LA and every time
people were typecasting me as the guy who should bring
an espionage peach or a war story, and I didn't
want to know. My dream as a kid was to
create trains partying Guspain sant Elephant Kids, the French film,
(04:01):
and I was never perceived as someone who can do this,
and I lost confidence that maybe I'm I'm a the
neerity dude who never be able to do a train
spotting type of So I was obsessed with this and
I kept on knocking on every door, like the fourth
fifth time. It was mostly about the breaking the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Well no, it makes total sense hearing your influences now,
because that's what I was going to ask you is
is I was wondering being our age and writing a
story about adolescent youth and the challenges that they're going through.
We're kind of removed from that. So and plus when
we grew up things were a little bit different. So
I was curious, like what made you want to try
and like really pierce the veil into the modern young
(04:41):
person's mind and the modern challenges they have. But hearing
you say like, well, these were my influences now makes
total sense.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, and it was when you you know, especially what
you're dealing a lot with the question of AI and
ind cinemaon television and everything. When we know that around
the corner a few years from now, AI, we'll be
able to write a lot of the shows that we
work on for five years in a single second or bit.
The good thing about it that it will force us
(05:09):
to only write what is extremely meaningful to us and
what can make a difference and recreate genre, reinvent something
that no one had done before you. So hopefully AI
will be late for that, right And you have And
this is a question we were asking ourselves in the
past all the time, like what like, how do we
find a voice that is unique and no one had
done is not the obvious? And how do we find
(05:31):
a cross genre that no one had done before us?
And what do we have to say? And in this
and this show I was. I started it started by
so I was writing the themes that I want to
touch and explore about why, the teenage life and mental health,
and I knew I wanted to do something that will
be emotional realism but not realism. And when we do
(05:53):
it overseas, sometimes I start by doing a show in
France or show anywhere. We sometimes do global shows, like
we have ten filmmakers from ten different countries on set,
but we do it over there. And then moving to
creating a show for HBO where you have the budget
of one single episode sometimes equal five seasons. One episode
(06:13):
five seasons. For what we do overseas changes the way
you're storytelling, right because, for example, with Euphoria, we knew
that in order to grasp the short attention of this generation,
you want to have one hundred and thirty scenes per episode. Overseas,
in many of the countries that we are creating, you
(06:33):
can do seventeen since per episode, twenty sins per episode,
not one hundred and thirty. So you have a proof
of concept and you have a bible. But then you're
trying to create this and then knock on the doors
of Hollywood to show them same as like you know,
HBO will give you a chance to direct a pilot
even if you've never done a high bul map because
(06:54):
they've watched something you've done as a proof of concept.
They've watched it on Fundance or something. So that was
the reason we're and we have freedom there that when
you work with the mess that we have on set.
I just wrapped the show in Morocco. Like filming in Morocco,
you have such a mess in a beautiful way. It's
not a formula, it's a mess. You could get the
freedom that you don't get here.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Usually typically the leap between like a seventeen scene almost
kitchen drama right to one hundred and thirty scenes could
be so overwhelming of a change. But it sounds like
you guys really embraced that. Did you have to take
that mentality into Bad Boy on Netflix? Then?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah? So ter The interesting so the strength thing is
that Bad Boy started as the first original beach of Euphoria.
What yeah, yeah, So I'll tell you so. I was
a twenty year old journalist. I locked myself in a
juvie prison, and ever since I wanted to write the
story of a juviprison and when I first peached to Fouria,
(07:58):
the original concept was actually the voice of a seventeen
year old inmate and the life outside. Everything we see
outside and the characters are pastimeline memories. So you fore
I started with this, But then I was so I
knew I wanted to do this and do the train
spot in Gaspa Sant la Heine, but through a juvenile prison.
But executives told me that the audience was not ready
(08:19):
to see kids in jail, and it's too early and
too intense. So we took you for it to a
different direction, and for fifteen years I was obsessed with
the Juvi show still And then the funny thing is
that there was one moment when I told this idea
to one of the most powerful drama executives in Hollywood,
and she said, yes, let's do us with kids. And
(08:39):
I went back home and I felt, I don't want
to do us with kids. I don't want to live
in this world. So at that point I knew that
we will need to reinvent something completely different in the genre.
And it turned into a story about a wounded soul
of a future comedian, and he turned into a show
about It's a thirteen year old boy sent to prison.
It was his own mind who called the police on him,
(09:01):
and he finds himself sharing a cell with a boy
his age who everyone warns him as a psycho killer,
and the entire prison pressures him to kill this boy,
but instead he falls in love with the boy and
they become soulmates. But it's also the sense of humor
becomes his survival tool in prison, so he becomes a
comedian in jail. You meet him twenty years later when
(09:22):
he's a successful comedian, and the past he has been
hiding comes back to hunt him. So this is the
reason why the storytelling. And I felt like, if I start,
you know how it is when you're trying to pitch
something in LA A lot of the networks will give
you some kind of a development deal just to have
you on a shelf because they're afraid he'll be somewhere else,
(09:43):
especially if you're like, Okay, it's a genre you've been
successful in. And I feel like I didn't want to
be stuck in a development hell pipeline or be or
be kind of engineered into the mandates or something. We said, well,
let's do it with the freedom and complete freedom and
(10:04):
kind of quickly even and just go wild and then
bring it. So I was so happy when Netflix said,
first of all, we love the original show. We want
the original show to release it in one hundred and
ninety one countries, and it launched and in forty six
(10:25):
countries or forty seven top it's on the top ten.
But at the same time, Netflix said, we want to
create an adaptation for an American version, And I love this,
and I love the moments when you bring in American
soul show run to bring their interpretation. I kind of,
I honestly love this and so yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So is so a couple of things because I guess
my first question off the bad because the episode I
watched was from Israel. So is there an American version
now being in development?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Oh that's so cool. The other thing is the character
is so real to me that I thought it was
based on a true story. It is, okay, yeah, right, okay,
but I'm glad you're yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
No, it's a boy. I strangely, when I was there
as a journalist and I came with a different When
I locked myself into the Stuby prison as a journalist,
I met this boy amazing, And I didn't know years
later that he is this guy who's a successful comedian,
but he never talks about his post and and when
I realized that this is the same guy, he just
changed his name. But he doesn't have the guts to
(11:32):
stand on stage and tell his own story. And he
will never be a truly great comedian if he doesn't
start right telling about himself. That was the moment, Yeah,
I think he started. Yeah, So in the show, it's
the first time he is sharing his own I.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Think it's interesting. Yeah, just going off of his like
opening monologue, he talks about having ADHD and how that
can actually help with you know, quick witted comedy. But
another thing with ADHD is that they can kind of
pop off and get angry all of a sudden, And
so then it makes sense then when you see like, okay,
so he's yelling at his mom, said something mean about
(12:06):
his mom. Probably didn't mean it, she took it the
wrong way, and now his whole life changes. It's fascinating.
So what kind of tips do you have for writers
out there or you know, potential I guess producers who
are looking to start breaking into this field.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So when I first came to LA, I started writing
down all the tips I was collecting. I remember going
to J. J. Abrams as talk or meeting, meeting producers
and asking them for their teaps, and I was. And
over the years it is becoming even more complicated. Although
Hollywood is now like, let's say in a TV field
(12:45):
that it went from doing two hundred and fifty strenk
year to see six hundred shows period. But it's tougher.
It's tougher because we are it's kind of an era
of organizational cowardness, and we live in one of the
most concerned already there are in the history of ally
would not conservative in the political way, but in the
artistic way. And I think even probably more than the
(13:08):
fees or the eighties that were kind of awful to Hollywood.
And no one takes risks as they used to. And
in many of those outlets, the number one value is
avoid headaches and so and a lot of them will
just will not. They will say, we're not even reading
the script. We want you first, or hearing the speech.
We want you first to step into the room and
tell and answer the three questions, and we'll try to
(13:30):
engineer you into making sure that the trailer will be
able to the audience will know from the very beginning
of almost the trail what they're hoping will happen, and
why it matters to them so much crucial and what
they are they know that they fear, I mean they
fear might happen, and why the stakes are so high
and everything has to and there is the formula and
(13:51):
everything has to follow the formula. And when someone, one
of the outlets this decides to invent a new mandate
and everyone is doing the same at the moment, and
when they're trying to predict what will be a hit
two years from now, they're just duplicating the things that
worked now. And it's sad because basically the things that
are standing out now are the things that went against
(14:14):
all rules. But they're bringing all this MBA graduates to
try and engineer everything and to formula an algorithm, and
I mean for that, you can just bring the AI
and it will give you better answers and it will
be nicer to you. But it's just I think it's
it's a brutal time. But yeah, I still think, first
(14:35):
of all, yeah, you know how it is you have
to develop ten or twelve ideas simultaneously. When you're writing,
you're writing just one, but you're developing. You never know.
It's not because your idea wasn't wasn't good enough, but
it was. You never know if there were like pilots
in the same in the same world that failed and
now no one wants to touch it or whatever. And
(14:57):
you have to remember that when people which step into
a room, and people will tell you, executive will tell you,
executive will tell you, it's brilliant, it's awesome, it's the
best script I've ever read. You probably will never hear
from them again. But if they start like challenging you
and saying, well, I mean, you have too many problem
(15:17):
then it might be a beginning of a dialogue. And
I think above everything else, and this is something I've
heard at the very beginning from Ron Bergmann, the producer.
You have to when you get to when you step
into La Soul for the first time, you have to
decide that this is your new way of life, not
give it a chance for a year or two, because
it might take two years, it might take twelve years.
(15:38):
You don't know how. And of course when you're choosing
some you have to make sure not to not to
make the bad choices, the business initiative type of choices
where you're thinking, oh, that story can work, this is
a good story. It's not a good enough reason to
step into it because you're getting married with the story.
You might need to live inside it for five years
to defend it, to bleed and tier over it. So
(16:01):
you basically have to make sure that you're asking all
the right questions and making sure that you know what
in this story and in this voice and in this
genre had never been done before, What is new about
this voice? What is unique about this voice? And then
there are all the tips that I was collecting that
are kind of and maybe they are individual, right, It's like,
but about the technique what makes you because in a
(16:24):
strange way, where our profession is the insane combination of
on the one hand, soul and on the other other end,
formula and algorithm, and it's important the analytical side of
trying to understand how it works is like in treating
this with secrecy, because it's the roots of drama from
(16:44):
from the very beginning. You have to find the moments
where you wake up at five am and just work
for twelve hours. But how do you look for inspiration
the moments you are seeking inspiration. And for me, for example,
when I needed to wake up for a new like
I needed certain deep I needed to get to a
place I've never been to, like flying to China to
(17:04):
a city I've never been to. The scent and the
oxygen and something about it is something I've never experienced.
Just the scent on the street and start walking for
ten hours totally offline, just a note with the name
of the hotel, so when I lose my way, I
can get back to it. But because basically the problem
(17:26):
in our day to day life is that we don't
have every thought of ours is cut after thirty seconds
because the text message counts something. But some of the
thoughts need a ten hours exploration that you need to
just go on this journey and check every turn. And
so I try to collect all these type of tips
(17:48):
to myself and to writers that I work with.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I mean, that's you literally just hit on something that
I kind of meditate on, you know when I find those,
and it's that truth is found in the signlece and
it is you know going like for me, I'll go
for that walk or I'll just sit in my little
chair and just be silent and just, you know, let
it come, and then you'll find that nugget that inspiration,
(18:12):
or that you know, that writer's block moment you're stuck
on or whatever, you'll find it. You just you just
have to let it happen, and in that silence, not
on Instagram. Yeah, yeah, Ron, what I'd like to thank
you for this mini seminar you just put on for inspiration,
Absolutely incredible. Bad Boy is out right now on Netflix.
(18:34):
Congratulations on all of your successes. Before I let you go,
is there anything I didn't ask you that I should have?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I have questions to ask you, but at a different times. Yeah,
I mean, I mean it's truly challenging times. But we just,
I mean, we're in the best profession ever, especially when
our schizophrenia of people who, on the one hand, loves
to be completely alone. Sometimes the solidar of writing for
weeks on your laptop in the dark room and your
(19:04):
bed or something, and then working with three hundred people
on set and being a leader to three hundred people,
This combination that comes only in the role of a showrunner,
a writer, producer is like the only way of life
that I found that makes me happy, so I try
to support every other writer.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
It's like, it's here an extroverted introvert exactly. Hey, if
this episode helped you out, share it with a writer
who needs it. And if you haven't yet, hit follow
and leave a quick rating. It helps more screenwriters like
you find the show. Finally, you can also connect with
me on Instagram at screenwriter Pod. Thanks again for listening,
(19:44):
Keep writing,
Stuck in Act two, not sure if that twist actually works,
or maybe your characters are just fine. That's where Virtual
Jeffrey comes in. He's a screenwriting assistant we've trained to
help you workshop scenes, fixed pacing, punch up dialogue, or
just get on stuck. If you're a member of the
successful sprint Edder, you've already got access. If not, it
(00:21):
might be time to level up. We have such a
special guest for you guys today. I am so excited.
We've got writer producer Ron Lesham. He is the mastermind
behind Euphoria and he actually championed it here in the
United States because it isn't an Israeli original show. And
he also has a new show carry out on Netflix
(00:42):
called bad Boy. Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Thanks for coming on the show finally, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I am excited, man. I haven't had anyone on the
show yet who had a hit outside of the US
and then brought it to the US and really championed
it like you had to get it re least here
like Redone here and then actually become an Emmy Award
winning show. I mean, it's it's absolutely impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
We usually we were doing these adaptations all over the world,
like taking a format and creating a proof of concept
and traveling with it to Korea, Russia, India, anywhere, like
all over Europe. But of course Hollywood has always been
the dream.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So I was reading that. I mean, you spent about
seven years trying to get Euphoria out here.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah. Yeah, for seven years everyone said no to Euphoria,
and every single executive, every single network had the very
detailed dancer to like White will never have a chance.
It will never be made, including HBO until Casey Blois
and Francesca Rsey took power. But yeah, but you know
what I mean. At the same time, our friends and
(01:50):
then coin Work, we're pitching Stranger Things at the same time,
and everyone said no to Stranger Things, really, and everyone
told them, listen you have Yeah, twenty Networks told them
you should turn it into a show about an FBI
guy coming to town. And when we were a lot
of times executives were telling us, if you make it
more like Skins, the British our comedy, and we said, yeah,
(02:11):
but someone already did Skin, and if we try to
create it more like Skins, we might get a development deal,
but it will never be made. You want to, but yeah,
you FOI went and stranger things again, sol the algorithms
and the mandates and everything. So if you do get
it agreely at the end of the day, you have
a bigger chance of being standing out.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I think it's important for people to hear this, especially
up and coming writers who are who are who are
breaking in or trying to break in because you had
a successful show that was popular in Israel one awards, right,
so you already have like quote street cred, Hey, I
made this happen. We can make this happen again. And
you're still getting met with those cheesy notes of it's
(02:52):
not going to happen. But you stuck to your guns
and I really respect that.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, but you know so it took us seven years.
My producing partners Li Shan and I were just knocking
on every door. But I wasn't feeling sorry for himself
because every time I was meeting people, I met producers
and writers who were waiting for fifteen years with their scripts.
Or I think Matthew Weiner was already an established writer
when he wrote Medmen in nineteen ninety four. It was
(03:18):
made in two thousand and eight, right, And even Aaron
Sarkling had scripts waiting fifteen years to get approved. It's
not but and you know, for me, the obsession was
because somehow my first writing jobs were on espionage and
war stories or anti war stories. So at that point,
(03:40):
every time I was stepping in I already moved to
the US, I was my home was Boston already, and
I was knocked on doors in LA and every time
people were typecasting me as the guy who should bring
an espionage peach or a war story, and I didn't
want to know. My dream as a kid was to
create trains partying Guspain sant Elephant Kids, the French film,
(04:01):
and I was never perceived as someone who can do this,
and I lost confidence that maybe I'm I'm a the
neerity dude who never be able to do a train
spotting type of So I was obsessed with this and
I kept on knocking on every door, like the fourth
fifth time. It was mostly about the breaking the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Well no, it makes total sense hearing your influences now,
because that's what I was going to ask you is
is I was wondering being our age and writing a
story about adolescent youth and the challenges that they're going through.
We're kind of removed from that. So and plus when
we grew up things were a little bit different. So
I was curious, like what made you want to try
and like really pierce the veil into the modern young
(04:41):
person's mind and the modern challenges they have. But hearing
you say like, well, these were my influences now makes
total sense.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, and it was when you you know, especially what
you're dealing a lot with the question of AI and
ind cinemaon television and everything. When we know that around
the corner a few years from now, AI, we'll be
able to write a lot of the shows that we
work on for five years in a single second or bit.
The good thing about it that it will force us
(05:09):
to only write what is extremely meaningful to us and
what can make a difference and recreate genre, reinvent something
that no one had done before you. So hopefully AI
will be late for that, right And you have And
this is a question we were asking ourselves in the
past all the time, like what like, how do we
find a voice that is unique and no one had
done is not the obvious? And how do we find
(05:31):
a cross genre that no one had done before us?
And what do we have to say? And in this
and this show I was. I started it started by
so I was writing the themes that I want to
touch and explore about why, the teenage life and mental health,
and I knew I wanted to do something that will
be emotional realism but not realism. And when we do
(05:53):
it overseas, sometimes I start by doing a show in
France or show anywhere. We sometimes do global shows, like
we have ten filmmakers from ten different countries on set,
but we do it over there. And then moving to
creating a show for HBO where you have the budget
of one single episode sometimes equal five seasons. One episode
(06:13):
five seasons. For what we do overseas changes the way
you're storytelling, right because, for example, with Euphoria, we knew
that in order to grasp the short attention of this generation,
you want to have one hundred and thirty scenes per episode. Overseas,
in many of the countries that we are creating, you
(06:33):
can do seventeen since per episode, twenty sins per episode,
not one hundred and thirty. So you have a proof
of concept and you have a bible. But then you're
trying to create this and then knock on the doors
of Hollywood to show them same as like you know,
HBO will give you a chance to direct a pilot
even if you've never done a high bul map because
(06:54):
they've watched something you've done as a proof of concept.
They've watched it on Fundance or something. So that was
the reason we're and we have freedom there that when
you work with the mess that we have on set.
I just wrapped the show in Morocco. Like filming in Morocco,
you have such a mess in a beautiful way. It's
not a formula, it's a mess. You could get the
freedom that you don't get here.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Usually typically the leap between like a seventeen scene almost
kitchen drama right to one hundred and thirty scenes could
be so overwhelming of a change. But it sounds like
you guys really embraced that. Did you have to take
that mentality into Bad Boy on Netflix? Then?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah? So ter The interesting so the strength thing is
that Bad Boy started as the first original beach of Euphoria.
What yeah, yeah, So I'll tell you so. I was
a twenty year old journalist. I locked myself in a
juvie prison, and ever since I wanted to write the
story of a juviprison and when I first peached to Fouria,
(07:58):
the original concept was actually the voice of a seventeen
year old inmate and the life outside. Everything we see
outside and the characters are pastimeline memories. So you fore
I started with this, But then I was so I
knew I wanted to do this and do the train
spot in Gaspa Sant la Heine, but through a juvenile prison.
But executives told me that the audience was not ready
(08:19):
to see kids in jail, and it's too early and
too intense. So we took you for it to a
different direction, and for fifteen years I was obsessed with
the Juvi show still And then the funny thing is
that there was one moment when I told this idea
to one of the most powerful drama executives in Hollywood,
and she said, yes, let's do us with kids. And
(08:39):
I went back home and I felt, I don't want
to do us with kids. I don't want to live
in this world. So at that point I knew that
we will need to reinvent something completely different in the genre.
And it turned into a story about a wounded soul
of a future comedian, and he turned into a show
about It's a thirteen year old boy sent to prison.
It was his own mind who called the police on him,
(09:01):
and he finds himself sharing a cell with a boy
his age who everyone warns him as a psycho killer,
and the entire prison pressures him to kill this boy,
but instead he falls in love with the boy and
they become soulmates. But it's also the sense of humor
becomes his survival tool in prison, so he becomes a
comedian in jail. You meet him twenty years later when
(09:22):
he's a successful comedian, and the past he has been
hiding comes back to hunt him. So this is the
reason why the storytelling. And I felt like, if I start,
you know how it is when you're trying to pitch
something in LA A lot of the networks will give
you some kind of a development deal just to have
you on a shelf because they're afraid he'll be somewhere else,
(09:43):
especially if you're like, Okay, it's a genre you've been
successful in. And I feel like I didn't want to
be stuck in a development hell pipeline or be or
be kind of engineered into the mandates or something. We said, well,
let's do it with the freedom and complete freedom and
(10:04):
kind of quickly even and just go wild and then
bring it. So I was so happy when Netflix said,
first of all, we love the original show. We want
the original show to release it in one hundred and
ninety one countries, and it launched and in forty six
(10:25):
countries or forty seven top it's on the top ten.
But at the same time, Netflix said, we want to
create an adaptation for an American version, And I love this,
and I love the moments when you bring in American
soul show run to bring their interpretation. I kind of,
I honestly love this and so yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So is so a couple of things because I guess
my first question off the bad because the episode I
watched was from Israel. So is there an American version
now being in development?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Oh that's so cool. The other thing is the character
is so real to me that I thought it was
based on a true story. It is, okay, yeah, right, okay,
but I'm glad you're yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
No, it's a boy. I strangely, when I was there
as a journalist and I came with a different When
I locked myself into the Stuby prison as a journalist,
I met this boy amazing, And I didn't know years
later that he is this guy who's a successful comedian,
but he never talks about his post and and when
I realized that this is the same guy, he just
changed his name. But he doesn't have the guts to
(11:32):
stand on stage and tell his own story. And he
will never be a truly great comedian if he doesn't
start right telling about himself. That was the moment, Yeah,
I think he started. Yeah, So in the show, it's
the first time he is sharing his own I.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Think it's interesting. Yeah, just going off of his like
opening monologue, he talks about having ADHD and how that
can actually help with you know, quick witted comedy. But
another thing with ADHD is that they can kind of
pop off and get angry all of a sudden, And
so then it makes sense then when you see like, okay,
so he's yelling at his mom, said something mean about
(12:06):
his mom. Probably didn't mean it, she took it the
wrong way, and now his whole life changes. It's fascinating.
So what kind of tips do you have for writers
out there or you know, potential I guess producers who
are looking to start breaking into this field.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So when I first came to LA, I started writing
down all the tips I was collecting. I remember going
to J. J. Abrams as talk or meeting, meeting producers
and asking them for their teaps, and I was. And
over the years it is becoming even more complicated. Although
Hollywood is now like, let's say in a TV field
(12:45):
that it went from doing two hundred and fifty strenk
year to see six hundred shows period. But it's tougher.
It's tougher because we are it's kind of an era
of organizational cowardness, and we live in one of the
most concerned already there are in the history of ally
would not conservative in the political way, but in the
artistic way. And I think even probably more than the
(13:08):
fees or the eighties that were kind of awful to Hollywood.
And no one takes risks as they used to. And
in many of those outlets, the number one value is
avoid headaches and so and a lot of them will
just will not. They will say, we're not even reading
the script. We want you first, or hearing the speech.
We want you first to step into the room and
tell and answer the three questions, and we'll try to
(13:30):
engineer you into making sure that the trailer will be
able to the audience will know from the very beginning
of almost the trail what they're hoping will happen, and
why it matters to them so much crucial and what
they are they know that they fear, I mean they
fear might happen, and why the stakes are so high
and everything has to and there is the formula and
(13:51):
everything has to follow the formula. And when someone, one
of the outlets this decides to invent a new mandate
and everyone is doing the same at the moment, and
when they're trying to predict what will be a hit
two years from now, they're just duplicating the things that
worked now. And it's sad because basically the things that
are standing out now are the things that went against
(14:14):
all rules. But they're bringing all this MBA graduates to
try and engineer everything and to formula an algorithm, and
I mean for that, you can just bring the AI
and it will give you better answers and it will
be nicer to you. But it's just I think it's
it's a brutal time. But yeah, I still think, first
(14:35):
of all, yeah, you know how it is you have
to develop ten or twelve ideas simultaneously. When you're writing,
you're writing just one, but you're developing. You never know.
It's not because your idea wasn't wasn't good enough, but
it was. You never know if there were like pilots
in the same in the same world that failed and
now no one wants to touch it or whatever. And
(14:57):
you have to remember that when people which step into
a room, and people will tell you, executive will tell you,
executive will tell you, it's brilliant, it's awesome, it's the
best script I've ever read. You probably will never hear
from them again. But if they start like challenging you
and saying, well, I mean, you have too many problem
(15:17):
then it might be a beginning of a dialogue. And
I think above everything else, and this is something I've
heard at the very beginning from Ron Bergmann, the producer.
You have to when you get to when you step
into La Soul for the first time, you have to
decide that this is your new way of life, not
give it a chance for a year or two, because
it might take two years, it might take twelve years.
(15:38):
You don't know how. And of course when you're choosing
some you have to make sure not to not to
make the bad choices, the business initiative type of choices
where you're thinking, oh, that story can work, this is
a good story. It's not a good enough reason to
step into it because you're getting married with the story.
You might need to live inside it for five years
to defend it, to bleed and tier over it. So
(16:01):
you basically have to make sure that you're asking all
the right questions and making sure that you know what
in this story and in this voice and in this
genre had never been done before, What is new about
this voice? What is unique about this voice? And then
there are all the tips that I was collecting that
are kind of and maybe they are individual, right, It's like,
but about the technique what makes you because in a
(16:24):
strange way, where our profession is the insane combination of
on the one hand, soul and on the other other end,
formula and algorithm, and it's important the analytical side of
trying to understand how it works is like in treating
this with secrecy, because it's the roots of drama from
(16:44):
from the very beginning. You have to find the moments
where you wake up at five am and just work
for twelve hours. But how do you look for inspiration
the moments you are seeking inspiration. And for me, for example,
when I needed to wake up for a new like
I needed certain deep I needed to get to a
place I've never been to, like flying to China to
(17:04):
a city I've never been to. The scent and the
oxygen and something about it is something I've never experienced.
Just the scent on the street and start walking for
ten hours totally offline, just a note with the name
of the hotel, so when I lose my way, I
can get back to it. But because basically the problem
(17:26):
in our day to day life is that we don't
have every thought of ours is cut after thirty seconds
because the text message counts something. But some of the
thoughts need a ten hours exploration that you need to
just go on this journey and check every turn. And
so I try to collect all these type of tips
(17:48):
to myself and to writers that I work with.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I mean, that's you literally just hit on something that
I kind of meditate on, you know when I find those,
and it's that truth is found in the signlece and
it is you know going like for me, I'll go
for that walk or I'll just sit in my little
chair and just be silent and just, you know, let
it come, and then you'll find that nugget that inspiration,
(18:12):
or that you know, that writer's block moment you're stuck
on or whatever, you'll find it. You just you just
have to let it happen, and in that silence, not
on Instagram. Yeah, yeah, Ron, what I'd like to thank
you for this mini seminar you just put on for inspiration,
Absolutely incredible. Bad Boy is out right now on Netflix.
(18:34):
Congratulations on all of your successes. Before I let you go,
is there anything I didn't ask you that I should have?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I have questions to ask you, but at a different times. Yeah,
I mean, I mean it's truly challenging times. But we just,
I mean, we're in the best profession ever, especially when
our schizophrenia of people who, on the one hand, loves
to be completely alone. Sometimes the solidar of writing for
weeks on your laptop in the dark room and your
(19:04):
bed or something, and then working with three hundred people
on set and being a leader to three hundred people,
This combination that comes only in the role of a showrunner,
a writer, producer is like the only way of life
that I found that makes me happy, so I try
to support every other writer.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
It's like, it's here an extroverted introvert exactly. Hey, if
this episode helped you out, share it with a writer
who needs it. And if you haven't yet, hit follow
and leave a quick rating. It helps more screenwriters like
you find the show. Finally, you can also connect with
me on Instagram at screenwriter Pod. Thanks again for listening,
(19:44):
Keep writing,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!