Ep. 277 – "Superman" Film Analysis: Subversion, Subtext, & Stakes - The Successful Screenwriter with Geoffrey D Calhoun: Screenwriting Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, right now you should be hearing an ad for
Virtual Jeffrey, which you absolutely should be checking out by
the way, at the successful screenwrinter dot com. But I
need you to know this episode is raw. We had
some serious mike issues behind these scenes. I had to
bust out my original podcast gear. I was using two
hundred and seventy six episodes ago just to get this

(00:20):
thing recorded. So if the audio sounds a little crunchy,
that's why that said. This conversation Victoria Malay is one
of my favorites, which is why I am putting it out.
I need you to hear this deep conversation we go
into about James Gunn Superman. We talk subtext, we talk steaks,
and yeah, even the monkeys. Let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
All right, Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited for
today's show. We are doing a film analysis of the
new James Gunn Superman film, and I have on the
ever affable, the incredibly talented Victoria Malay.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thanks for being with me, Thanks for having me. Happy
to be here, happy to be back.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh man, it's so awesome. All right, So we're gonna
go over Superman. So before we kind of like launch
into it. Is there any kind of notes you wanted
to hit on? First?

Speaker 4 (01:13):
My big notes are, I grew up I'm a Superman fan.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
I grew up watching Smallville.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
I'm very much that's one of my fairite TV shows
of all time.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
So I did go in with.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
I liked, I really did enjoy a Man of Steel.
I loved, you know, the original Superman.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
So I did have like some standards. I think.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
The other really important thing we need to hit is
that I did hang out with David Korn's wet once
at a party.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
It was very nice.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Yes, well, I just had to get that off my chest.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
No, I'm kidding me.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
I walked out of the movie and look, I need
everyone to know that I know him.

Speaker 5 (01:49):
It's amazy, but no, I just I think the big
thing is my analysis is coming from someone who like,
actually does love this hero.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
And I felt like I wasn't disappointed.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Oh man, I watched the film and forgot that we
had to analyze it. Yeah, okay, it was lost in
the film.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, so I was lost too. But then I would
come the writer brain was still on good because because
I was like, I remember walking out of that film.
I took two thoughts one, I have to tell everyone
that I did, in fact meet David Quinsy. And then
early twenty twenty before the pandemic, and then two I
was like.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
I need to go back to that.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
I need to go back and see this again with
a notepad, because that I honestly what a master James
gun is as a writer.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
That is a tight script.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's so well done.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
He did the thing, and I was like, this was
like a masterclass and like plants and payoffs and like
building emotion and like empathy for certain characters and like
not and not just you know, not just Superman. But
we're spoiled, like spoilers, right, spoilers spoilers if you guys
haven't if you all haven't seen you all haven't watched

(03:11):
Superman yet, just stop now. But you know, I was
like freaking the f out at the baby Joey and
Crypto maybe going into the black hole. Yeah. I was
ready to jump into the screen and throw myself in
the Proton River to help stop.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
It's so emotional, all right. So my perspective coming from
this is I'm really starting to see the lessons that
he probably, like James Gunn probably learned. He cut his
teeth with Lloyd Kaufman from the Trauma films, right, So

(03:48):
that's like, you know Newcomb High, that's Toxic Avenger. You know,
it's those splatter horror films. I've had Lloyd Kaufman on
the show. There's my little name drop the guys a
brilliant madman. So I'm watching his films and I'm starting
to really see that route there. But it mostly comes

(04:12):
from the fact that those old Trauma films, you know,
they would deal in the absurd, and he brings that
into his films. And the reason why I mentioned this
is because you know, I'm scrolling through all of these
Instagram and TikTok movie reviews and film analysis because I
like to see what the average viewer thinks they and

(04:33):
this is the one theme I hear from everybody. This
film shouldn't work, but it does. And I think it's
because they don't. They can't gather that it's because he
brings that that fact that he's interested in the absurd,
that he can take a small little goblin and grow
it into a Kaiju out of the blue, right, just

(04:56):
just to show how far Superman will go to save people,
He'll save a squirrel he'll save a dog. That's our Superman.
That's my Christopher Reeve Superman right there, that's the Superman
that I love. It's not against Zack Snyder. His Superman
was different, right, there were casualties, hundreds of thousands, but

(05:19):
that was by design. This Superman is bringing out that
old you know, peace and fighting for what's right type
of morality.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yes, yes, and yeah for sure. And I think also.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
A lot of people have or what i've my doom
scrolling online is also yeah, just really under Either people
loved the hopeful message that the movie left everyone with
or they hated it and they're like, well, it's not
like what Zack Snyder did.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
And I think.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
You have to I mean, comparison is I get is inevitable,
but you're comparing apples to orange, and I think, like
you always have to ask yourself what was the filmmaker's
intent here? And I think Zack Snyder wanted to make
a darker, grittier Superman and he did that very well.

(06:13):
That was not James Guns's intent here. He wanted to
make basically, it feels like to me he wanted to
put a comic book on the screen. Yeah, And I
think he did that beautifully. He wanted a big popcorn,
like big popcorn movie for the for the summer, and
he did that and he did that really well. And

(06:35):
I think also, like I'm such a populis my.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Favorite movie of all time.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
I think I said this last time I was here,
is Spider Man, like the original Spider Man.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
That's my favorite movie.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
I'm sorry, sorry Citizen Kane, like sorry The Godfather.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
But Sam Raimi's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
I know he's my everything.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
But like you have to, I think when you're criticizing
a movie, you know beyond just like how it made
you feel or you're from the hip take on it
is well, I always try to ask myself what were
they trying to do here? And did they do it well?
And I just feel I feel like James did what
he set out to do really well and it was

(07:13):
incredibly entertaining and I had a great time, and yeah,
and I was I loved. I mean a fun fact
is that And this is me growing up because I
grew up acting and I love I'm just like such
a I love actors and I love I'm just very interested.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
I just am such a nerd about it. I wonder
where David corn Sweat studied, and funnily enough, he went
to Julliard just like Christopher Reed. Oh wow, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
That's actually really cool. Yeah. So you mentioned Zack Snyder
is Superman and it was dark, and I think it
whatever his reasons, was that type of Superman fits in
with that Batman He designed to have that Man Versus
Superman film, Right. I don't think that film works as

(08:06):
much as it worked. I mean, there was problems. We
all want to know who Martha is, but you know,
there's so many Martha's evidently in the DC universe. So
I don't think it worked. If that Superman was super hopeful,
he wouldn't have been able to keep that tone of
that film because it totally would have been everywhere. So
when you have a dark Superman, you can have that

(08:26):
type of a dark badman and have that that tone
where they can fight each other. He's not interested in that.
He's trying to go back to I want to sit
back to basics, but bring that purity in which I
think was really cool. And I think one of the
ways that this film works that people don't understand is
because it utilizes three things that I think make a

(08:50):
great script. And actually, I've noticed in your work you
capitalize on this too.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
So three things are well, Me and James text all
the time about stories.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Right, guys are solid. It would be subversion, subtext and steaks. Right,
if you put those three things in a script, it's
gonna hit different and right away. This film utilizes subversion, right,
because there's two ways you can introduce a character. You
can introduce them with something that really create at you

(09:21):
can introduce them in a vulnerable moment. Right. And so
when you think Superman, you think faster than a speeding bullet.
You think Brandon Roth getting shot in the eyeball with
a bullet and nothing happening. Right, that's the go to
intro for a Superman. You don't think getting is ass
kicked and thrown into the snow, a battered, bloody, bruised mess.

(09:43):
And that's how it introduced with that subversive opening. And
I was like, this, that's amazing from right now and
that brings us in to his whole world. If Crypto
and the robots and the Fortress of Sound to I mean,
it was.

Speaker 6 (09:58):
Smart, yes, And I think that's something else that I
think people liked about this film is that there's a
Mizzon scene here that we don't get in a lot
of other Superman movies, or we haven't gotten, like like.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
It's not an origin story.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
And I think a lot of people liked that that
like because again I think I think also when you
were speaking about Snyder versus gun I think the big
question that they were they both tried to answer, and
I think they both answered it, but they did it in.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Completely different ways.

Speaker 4 (10:30):
Is like Superman, especially in the world we live in
right now, he feels like such a relic and it's like,
how do you modernize this character? And I think Snyder's
answer was darkness and grittiness and and and Gun's answer
was absurd like you said, or bring in like the

(10:51):
hint of absurdity, and like hold up the funhouse mirror
to ourselves with this character.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
I mean, I'm I I want to take a step further, please.
I think that this film is a reflection of James
Gunn's life. Oh t right, let's let's break it down, please.
So he was he was like Marvel Jesus before Deadpool.

(11:20):
So he had Guardians of the Galaxy came out and
really blew up right then in twenty eighteen. You know,
all of these old whatever you want to call him
tweets and posts leaked, and you know he was fired
from Marvel before going to d C. He was without

(11:41):
a job and canceled. Like when cancel culture was a
big deal. So like his future was unknown and people
were writing tweets all about you know, trashing James Gunn
who was the guy that built him up himself up
from nothing he went. He came from the Spider horror

(12:01):
films into Guardian the call is a big deal and
he can watch his growth from the Slither and everything
all the way up. So then DC hires him, right
Marvel then finally brings him back. He gets to finish
his movies. M So, now when you look at this film, right,
you see a hashtag campaign against Superman. You see someone

(12:26):
that was loved and idolized, trashed through.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Social Yeah, fall from Grace, the fall from Grace.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
We go into the pocket realm where he shows the haters.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
And what are they monkeys?

Speaker 2 (12:39):
That was brilliant monkeys. Right now he's throwing total shade
at all of the you know whoever canceled them? So
and then and then what happens I mean let's just
go through it. So, uh, the world is split with Superman, right,
and so one of the one of the things I
mentioned was subtext. Right, So what does next Luthor do?

(13:01):
He literally creates a split down Gotham as a pocket Metropolis.
Thank you so much, metropolist, just.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
Because I know the fanboys will be out here fact checking.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
I appreciate it. Got them. You want to take a left,
all right? So so Metropolis? Right, he splits it like
literally physically. So there's our subtext as a visual subtext
of Metropolis being split apart over Superman, just as fandom
was with James Gunn. And what does Superman do? He
eventually he brings it back together, he fixes it, but

(13:34):
it's not perfect.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Yes, as the as they poket on at in the
last post credit scene exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
So I really think that this, this movie couldn't have
happened if he didn't go through all of that and
then could write and express that through this character's journey.
I mean that's what we do.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yes, No, that's that's such a brilliant insight of because
it also speaks to the thing is like you have
to write super personally, and I think I don't know
if I talk about this a lot, because like I
think you hear, write what you know, and that doesn't
just mean like write your biography, like I'm just going
to bring up whatever happened.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
To baby J Like I wrote this script.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
About a woman who unknowingly married her boy band crushed
from like twenty years ago. He doesn't talk about it.
He was not just in tember like the Harry styles
dang go solo. He just like drops off the face
of the earth and changed his name. He goes missaying
she teams up with his old band to find him,
and that feels like an incredibly personal story to me.

(14:39):
And then also most importantly, Jeffrey was kind enough to
not only attend the event, but he's wanted it and
made it happen, so thank you.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
And to support you.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
And that was an incredibly personal story to me.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
But I'm not married. I was never like I'm not
hunting down my boy band husband.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
I just think But for me, it was so personal
about like this.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
This idea of like how much of the past do
we let influence our our present and our and it
is this why we're all so scared of the future,
because we're just we just want to be in the past,
and the president, the president, the president feels too uncomfortab
forty and slip.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
There, but yeah, yes.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
The present feels too uncomfortable and also just also but
then this this discovery of something I loved in my
childhood that was better than I remembered it, which feelt
which felt like kind of magical and impossible. That all
to say, Like, I think as writers, don't limit yourself,
Like a personal story doesn't just mean.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
An autobiography. And I think James did it. I did
it with my little.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Table read And James is like, and I did it
with my two wldre in Twitter's a million dollar budget.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, I don't know if he even consciously realizes he's
done it. You know, he might he might have sat
down and be like, I'm using this as a tool
to explain the ridiculousness of social media, or if he
is just feeling all of that fear, anger, sadness, regret,
you know, hope for the future of things to change

(16:29):
and then just pours it into this character, or the
feeling of being an outsider who finally broke into Hollywood
only to have everything you know turn on you. As
the alien of Superman. I mean, I don't know if
it's conscious or not, but it's there. It's palpable and
you feel it.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, that was great subtext. That
was a great pick up on subtext sir, Oh, well.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Thanks, Yeah, I should. It's like I do these film
analysis things or something.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, it's like you do this all the time for
a living or something.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
Yeah, And then I obviously think, just to go on
your your fabulous list, there's the stakes.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
In this movie.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
Oh yeah, he's He's executing on so many levels of that.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
And I think it's very.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Easy, like it's almost easy in or easy error in
a big action superhero film like that, because the stakes
can literally be everyone's going to die.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Right, it's the thing, Oh snap, you know, you can
go big with it and then kind of cheat it.
It's when you personalize it is when it gets really interesting.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
Yes, And I think he did a really good job
of that, of establishing One of my favorite scenes of
the movie was the interview with Lois.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Oh it was Salvid. It was so good sting him
shift in between them and the frustration of a relationship
that felt real.

Speaker 4 (17:56):
Yeah, and then also like we got to see like
she we got to see him a little bit flawed, yeah,
and kind of but you see, like it was so
interesting to see these two people who really do love
and care for each other, but they're also so they
have such strong like principles and integrity.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Like that was so interesting.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
And then you and then like you again, like it's
like the plant and then forget and then bring it
back because it's like, also there's now very personal stakes
for him, Yeah, because he said he tells Lois he
loves her, like if he can't.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
If he if everyone dies and this all and.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
He and he can't save the world, then it's like
it's the personal thing for him. The other thing I
loved about Steaks because I'm working on this project right
now that.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
I don't want to say too much, but it deals
with very bad people.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
And it's comedy, and I just was so inspired talking
about personal stakes.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
I thought, what a brilliant way.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
To use eve test Macker this like up until now,
this throwaway character and talk about subverting and talk about.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Subverting and back in the old days. And then he
takes it a different way and.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
He subverts it right because she's kind of still a
dumb Bimbo. But I just loved it was so good.
Like it's never a big thing that makes someone snap.
It's the little like death by about the one thousandth
cut and the Death by a thousand cuts and then
like you see, Like I just think it's so brilliant.
It's taking the big and monumental and making it like

(19:41):
small and understandable and relatable because it's not that she
like objects to what is doing. Yeah, it's that he's
like such a dick to her and she's done and
it's but it's so like we're laughing, but it's also
it's so brilliant.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
It is.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
We all understand that, we all understand that.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, And I just thought that was like such.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
I actually I like really impressed the person next to
me in the theater because I'm like because when the
selfies came up, they're like what and I go, oh,
it's because there were all of the ships in the background,
like oh.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
What, how do you know that? Like I'm a writer?
But yeah, I promise. I didn't talk throughout the movie much,
but that was my one moment.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
But then he subverted it again, right, because you have
Jimmy who's like an average guy, and he is not
interested in this super high Instagram girl.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just thought it was so that
was such an interesting use of subversion, and then also
steaks of like or just at least with tests like
the steaks aren't he's going to he's my boyfriend is
literally ruining, like trying to take over the world. It's
that he's so mean to me. And maybe I should

(21:00):
go back to Jimmy because Jimmy's.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, exactly, Jimmy loves me even yeah, Jimmy tolerates her. Yeah,
I want to go back to Lois because you inspired. Okay,
what I really appreciated about Lois's conversation or interview with
Clark is because when you love someone to that degree,

(21:25):
you will push them to be better because you're afraid
for them, and that fears of vulnerability that you have,
you're exposed and for someone like Lois, who is a
poetzerprize winning journalist established in her career, failed with several
failed relationships, she doesn't want to feel that with Clark,

(21:49):
so then she starts pushing him away out of fear
that he's going to hurt himself. And so it was
so minute and the way she did and performed it
in the way the writing will. But it was just
so good.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, yeah, it was. I love that.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
It's because she's not pushing him just or like giving
him all our time because she's always laying the ball
busting journalist. It's because she deeply loves this man, and
like it's probably not maybe as affected but affected by
the hate he gets. Yeah, and it's that like tough love.

(22:26):
So yeah, that's also a really brilliant observation and insight.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
And I think again he did, you know, James did
such a good job. And also like the whole we
have to talk about Crypto the Dog, Oh please.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Like I mean it's kind of like I just think
of the meme like it's pretty real estate, Like it's
kind of a cheap shot.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
But the reason we always use it is because it works.

Speaker 4 (22:49):
And I thought there was also some really smart subversion
there too, and the whole plant and the payoff thing.
It's like, you think Crypto is just like an idiot.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, he's a terrible.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
Which like not listening. I'm like, oh, it's just like
my dog. She doesn't listen and she's not really like
a concern for her. But how that like again subverts
that and then he like that's how he's able to
take down Ultraman is because he tells Crypto to go
fetch the flying videos.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, the drones, Yeah, I think Crypto. So the background
I got is based on James's dog, of course, so
much so, like even James James Gun's dog has one
flappy year and one straight year, so like it is
essentially his dog, and from what I what I read
in the interview, it's a terrible dog. It doesn't listen,

(23:39):
it tears everything up.

Speaker 7 (23:41):
So then he took hundreds of videos of his dog,
and so the scene where Superman is essentially attacked by
Crypto in the opening is a direct translation of James
Gunstog attacking his cat.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Amazing, right, But that's so Yeah, this is an incredibly
personal film for Jeans Gun and I don't think anybody
realizes it, but you like the film because it's personal.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, I also think, I don't know, I just think
I hope, I know the studios will not learn this lesson,
because you know, the lesson they learned from Barbie was
let's make more.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Movies based on all like movies.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yeah, like you realize that Barbie was successful not because
of Barbie. It's because you hired a world class filmmaker
and just lettermaker movie.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, and she didn't let her make it. Weird, that's
the same thing that gun did.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
Here is like, like, I don't know how many times
we have to repeat this exercise, but like, hire a
world class filmmaker and let them make their movie.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
And this whole idea of.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
Appealing to the lowest common denominator does not work with art,
everything else, marketing, manufacturing.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Sure, I don't have a degree in that. I don't know, but.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
Are oddly the more personal you get, the more yeah,
and the more specific you get, the more universal and
relatable it is. And I think he you know, obviously clearly,
even without us knowing, he did that, and that's why
we loved it.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, I agree with you. I mean that is that
is a perfect button. I think for this interview, I
wanted to go further into the into the supporting cast,
but I feel like you just summed up the whole
movie for me.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
No, I want to talk about the cast though I
love it. I'm down to chat. I'm down to chat.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
It can be a button for this secsion perfect for
this episode.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
I think we're done, all right.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
I'm a yapper, though, come on, what I love? We
worked too hard, you chimed over too many technical difficulties,
bts for everyone. God, dude, that happens me a twenty
five minute conversation.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
I appreciate you for your patients and why I mean
I had to pull out the old cans that I
started using for my headphones my first episode to make
this happen. What I love about the supporting cast. And
I don't know if other people pick this up, but
if you combine all of the supporting casts personalities specifically,
what I mean is the Justice Game. If you combine

(26:20):
all of their personalities, you have Batman. And I don't
know if anyone realizes that, but I'll walk you through it.
So you've got like you've got Green Lantern. He's just cocky,
he's just a little bit arrogant. He's superior to everybody
around him.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Right, Okay, four women?

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Right? But again, well, yeah, he's got a ridiculous body count.
And I don't want to get weird, but half of
those are internet are intergalactic, so right, yea, the Green Lantern,
they're not as human, all right, So a hawk girl brooding.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
In the ruthlessness right right, Okay, and.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Then we get mister terrific, a detached, brilliant intellectual. You
take all three of those characters, he put them together,
you have Batman, So I know my mind was going
to and it hit me. I'm like, thanks, you know,
pause for applause, but ye, so, but I thought that

(27:27):
was interesting. But instead of using Batman, right, James Gunn's
you know, core is to how do I find these,
you know, out of the blue bee tier characters that
have a little bit of absurdity that I can use
and push? And so he pulls out Metamorpho, which was incredible, right.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
And then and also how or sorry?

Speaker 4 (27:52):
Also just quick interjection like who would have thought that
would have been one of the most emotionally intense scenes
of the movie with him like you took a look
at him? What's this thing?

Speaker 2 (28:01):
And I love him? Give me more? Yeah. And it's
played by Anthony Carrigan, who I don't know if you
ever watched the show Berry on HBO.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Okay, I live I live in Barry, I live in
LA all right.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
So uh.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
He plays a character named NoHo Hank, which is this
lovable gangster who is He's he's gay, he's out there,
but he's supposed to be threatening in this killer, but
he's more really concerned about how he appears to other people.

(28:38):
And it is it's just got this vulnerability and charm
to it. No Hey does and his comedic timing is incredible.
And so and he has alopecia, right, So he has
no hair from his alopecia. And so you take an
actor who has that kind of depth, who understands, after
having alopecia, what it is to look different, and then

(29:00):
you put him in the character of metamorphal.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
He's sorry, I'm allowed to swear, right, He's going to understand.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
That character in a way that most people can't write. Yeah,
you can swear it, don't.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Okay, what a fucking master stroke.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
But I also this was I was talking with a
dear friend of mine, Zach Moore, who hosts the Always
hold On called Onto small Ville podcasts. So he's also
he's like the Superman Dan, and he was saying, I
w and I promise this this comes back to the
Justice Gang. He's like, I wanted more time with this,

(29:38):
and I wanted more time with this.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
I'm like, I get that but like I'm on small Ville.
We had the time because it was a ten.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
Season, twenty two episode network show, but I'm like it
kept underscoring. Is an important thing about feature screenwriting as
as opposed to writing for television is like, the movie
has to be about one person. Yeah, it has to
be about one person. And I also think it was
very smart.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
To have lesser characters that all.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Kind of collectively make up back Man rather plus Metamorpho,
rather than just introduce Batman, because this is a Superman
movie and you don't want him to pull focus, especially
as you're like re establishing this world on such a
large scale. So I think that was also very strategic.
I'm adding another s, I think that was very strategic

(30:29):
of like, we can have this ensemble who are there and.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
They're important, and they contribute and they earn.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
Their time on screen, but they're never going to eclipse
who this movie's actually about. Like another thing that my
friend Zach and I were talking about is like we
wanted more Lois and we actually wanted more Clark Kent,
which is like a very of course, yeah, it's very small,
mil coded critique, but I'm like, but at the end
of the day, the movie is called Superman and like, yes,

(30:55):
I want like I want so much more Clark and Lois,
but he had and that movie was it was two
hours fifteen, so it was like he had.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
A lot to do. It was and he took a
good amount of time.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
But at the end of the day, it just helps
underscore I think for us as writers, like the efficiency
and the economy, you need of like who you are
writing this movie about and what people are coming to
see it for.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
And how do you show the different sides of that character?
And you show the different side for that character through
your supporting cast. So if you're if you've got you know,
an arrogant green lantern, it shows the humility.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Of Clark Kent right, yeah, the foils.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Yeah, So having those those different characters allows us to
see the different sides.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
I also think that again talk about talking about subversion
and like the brilliance going back with Hawkgirl and the
brooding and like your ruthlessness is when she takes the
president of Bravia and he's like, you're not actually going
to kill me and she's like, I'm not Superman, it
is I'm.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Afraid of you.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, mic drop.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
And drop it was really brilliant too.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
No, I one of my favorites was was mister terrific
because I I love his performance because he's so intelligent
that he emotionally detaches, right, but there's slip ups. Yeah,
and that's what I love because if you just have
a guy that's emotionally detached, like basically you know Tomaton

(32:34):
the whole time, it's not great. But when he's stuck
in a portal that's closing on him and he gets
this old ship face for a moment, it sells harder
because you're used to the guy just being in a
detached genius you know. Yeah, or if he or if
he busts green lanterns chops just the right way that
he gets a half a smirk, you get more out

(32:55):
of that character.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
And also the fact, like again like the subverting is
that the you know, the least emotional one is the
one who goes after Lois and is like, I'm going
to help you.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yep, exactly. That's great, brilliant. Is there anything else before
I before I let you go?

Speaker 4 (33:14):
Yeah, we have to talk about Lex.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
Excuse me, maybe you have to talk about Lex.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Let's hit Lex, Like so Nicholas Halt playing Lex. What
I found very very interesting in his prep for the
character is that he got into sick shape. He put
on a ton of muscle. You don't see any of
it because he's always suited up, but I think he
wanted it for the character because Lex in general is

(33:40):
a guy that's actually in pretty good shape. But I
think as someone that has done everything from CrossFit to
martial arts to now I rock climb, the more fit
I am, the stronger I feel I have a presence,
and so I think that was part of that motivation.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Yes, Also another master stroke of casting on part was
he originally brought Holt.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
In for.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
Yeah, casting like because it's like, you know, we get
down at the end.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
It's all about this envy.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
And again obviously Corn sweat and hold our buddy buddies
and adore each other. But that's such an interesting thing
that they can exploit in those scenes, is Yeah, I
thought was so brilliant.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
And I know a lot of people had their critiques.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
Of Lex, and I think that's that's incredibly valid. But
and again coming from my my Smallville fandom, I think,
I mean, I love my Kros and Bomb's Lex, but
it's you fall in love with him because you have
all this time with him. And what I liked and
like again Gene Hackman the Goat. But in the in

(34:56):
the movie versions that I've seen of Lex Luthor, he
always and I know and I love Jesse Eisberg like
I love he's my fellow Jersey king, like I adore
Jesse Eisenberg, but like I never thought that they were
these smart like he finally felt like a in this movie.
To me, he finally felt like a worthy adversary. Yeah,

(35:16):
of Superman, Like I like that they made him and
they actually really demonstrated and externalized how smart Lex was.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, absolutely, I agree to you. I mean, especially if
that's established with showing him having done hundreds of permutations
of fight moves that he is calling out live. Yes,
so he is fighting Superman and he is winning and
destroying Superman through the Ultraman body. So that definitely sells

(35:47):
like this guy is is like a strategic, brilliant mind.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
But what I love that took his character to another
level is how many times have you seen a self
aware narcissist? Right, because you don't see that, you see
a narcissist who thinks he's at them a godlike character
an exit way, but you don't see one cop up
cop up to the fact that they're envious. Yes, I'm

(36:13):
envious of you. Yes, yeah, yes, you're show me what
I can't be. And just going off on that dialogue,
I was like, holy crap, this is incredible.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah, I just feel like and again like Hackman, and
again that was a very different movie.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
The seventy eight Daughter film is a masterpiece.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
It was a very different movie and during a very
different time in society and pop culture.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
But I just loved that.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
I always felt like, I think this is the first
time that I really did question if Superman was going
to be able to beat Lex Luthor.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
That's a good and that's what I loved.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
Like because he was And like also I feel like
they just weaponized his wealth so well, also in a
way that feels very organic to our world right now
of like interfering with you all of a sudden, you're
now interfering geopolitics and like and and then just you know,
the also like that the private like yeah, like the

(37:12):
private having meetings with the Defense Department, and like the
private contracting of like, yeah, my ex girlfriend who wrote
a mean blog about me.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Is in that this help?

Speaker 4 (37:23):
Yeah, but also like the levels of that too, of
like this like the Papa universe scared me, scared the
fuck at me, by the way, and like the prison,
like the prison of it all, but like, yes, there's
the petty like the people who are in the air
for petty reason. Yeah, but then I rent out all
the other cells to countries who who want like to

(37:43):
make sure their journalists can't write it, like, and you know,
the political prisoners are you know, really out.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Of the equation.

Speaker 4 (37:50):
And I was like, I think the scary thing is like, oh,
I could definitely see governments doing that if that was
an option.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Right now, I think you're right and take the character
a step further. How quickly he accepted the ramifications of
executing somebody, and when that happened, you could tell that
was the first time he's executed someone. He's been putting
people in these black, black prison you know, in this

(38:21):
pocket dimension, but this was the first time that God
went off and hit somebody, and you could see it
on his face. I mean, that's how well the performance was.
And then as he's driving, as he's striving, as he's
being taken away. He has this little under his breath
and then I'll guess I'll just have to execute somebody else,
and like you could hear him processing that's what he's

(38:43):
going to have to do. So, I mean, there's so
much levels to his I want to say insanity, is
he no?

Speaker 4 (38:50):
I think yeah, I think, well, it also makes you
think of and Holt was the perfect person to play
this role because did you ever watch The Great? Who
he is on The Great is like the modern billion
rare version of him on the Grate, And I think
he does such a good job of grounding and making
crazy believable because he plays like basically on the Grade,

(39:11):
he plays a mad king, but his perforece just because
he finds all the all these little but you find
the he finds all these beautiful moments of like vulnerability
and intimacy and like you're like you're still wacka do Waco,

(39:32):
but like I understand how you got here. I'm not,
and I have I have pity actually for you. I
don't condone anything you're doing. But like I think he
was able to transmute that really well from like a
seventeen or eighteenth century king of Russia to to Lex

(39:52):
of and just like adding in the layers of that
as well. And I think here some people I just
remember I was talking to friends, are like, we didn't
love like certain aspects of his character, and I'm like, yeah,
but I think this is als where I have to
give gone such a huge nod. Is that also God
had a really clear point of view and a message

(40:12):
that you wanted to help this film, and he didn't
let anyone scare him into not saying it.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
And I think there was a there was Lex was
very much.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
I can I don't want there's like eighteen people that like,
obviously Lex is based on who we're all like suffering
under right for sure?

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, any American oligarch right now. I think his message
of humanity, yeah, is not is not this woke monster
that social media is trying to make it. I think

(40:49):
when you speak truth in a kingdom of lies, truth
is considered the enemy.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
And all.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Gun is trying to show is that we are all people,
we are all on the same path, we are all
trying to do the best we can. I mean, for
God's sakes, he's got a land war in the middle
of the movie. Yeah, right, And that's not accidental. So
if people can't hear that and see that, then I mean,
I can't help you. You're listening to too much propaganda

(41:22):
if you can't sit there and understand that humanity. I
was all going through the same struggle individually, and by
creating an other in your culture, you're demonizing people for

(41:42):
no reason.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Yes, And I thought, oh, I just had it and
I lost it.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
I thought it was so brilliant also to show how
Superman struggled with that, Like his initial approach wasn't like
he got flat for it. It wasn't maybe like And
that was the brilliance of the scene with Lois poking
all the holes. Oh, I remember Superman has always been political.

(42:08):
I need to I need to do more research on this.
But I was reading it was very interesting that the
Superman radio show in the forties basically brought.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Down the Klan.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, because.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Because he would.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
There was somebody there was a writer of the radio
show who is like an kind of like Black clansman,
like like a informant. He had passwords that they used, Yes,
and he put it in all the in the broadcasts.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
It's so good, it's so good, It's so yeah, it's great.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
And I really liked I this is also like a
small Bill thing where I loved that we didn't get
just like the Sack, like the it's me choral and
Laura like save the world.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Like I thought that a subversion.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Yeah, but yeah, because that was kind of on Smallville too,
like because Dorel is such a big actually such a
big character on Smallville you never see him, and funnily enough,
he's voiced by Terrence Stamp who played General Sod too.
But yeah, I mean it was very like, uh like

(43:22):
on smallvill Jorel had a very specific idea of what
he wanted his son to do, and there was more
tug and you know, tug war with that because it
was he was again because you had ten seasons. But yeah,
I thought that was so interesting with Jarrell and Laura
on that, on that that kind of scale. And I

(43:45):
also think we all there's also like a relate like
relating to that too of when you grow up and
you realize your parents are just humans as well and they.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Don't know everything.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
Yeah, and they can be wrong too, like it's I
thought that was just breathtaking.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Ensuring two different sets of parents and how how you
know the one set apparent really instilled that love in him,
and the other one kind of instilled that that sort
of desperation and fear. So I think that was that
was interesting, especially at the end there when he's watching
pictures of his childhood with the Kent family. I thought

(44:24):
it was great.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
So I have to be honest, I was on the
edge of my seat the entire time because famously it's like,
you know, pau Kent or Jonathan Kent is Superman's uncle Ben.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
He's supposed to die.

Speaker 4 (44:40):
And I and so the whole time, I'm like, wait,
is he alive now?

Speaker 3 (44:44):
So James got can kill him at some point in
this movie. I was like, for sure, here, but I'm sorry,
I told you I'm a Superman fan. That was like
a big redcord. That was a big record.

Speaker 4 (44:59):
Yes, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Like that's that's what's supposed
to inspire Clark to like go find the Fortress of
Solitude and really become Superman's the death of Jonathan so
I I found I found that was really interesting. And
I think James Gunn did a good job of, you know,

(45:20):
making that character worth living because that that scene between
them is so beautiful and and and but I did like,
and this is probably another small vue coded critique, but
when Zach and I.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Were talking, and this is a critique I had, I
think he.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
Had then I think paw Kent had had a moment
to feel a little more like a three dimensional character.
But I think the character Martha or Ma Kent was
very like magical rednecks.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Like it was a little like, we're just out here,
salt so they.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Are there's something for you on the farm.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
That's great, yes, and I guess you can you can
see where like obviously there needed to be that to
see how Like I mean, I just love the whole
thing about kindness being and like the night the naivete
of Clark, like you needed that. But at the same time,
I was like, if I was directing, I would have
maybe we wouldn't pull it back just to snanch just
a smidgerow because again, like and also because both those

(46:22):
actors are so brilliant, especially a gentleman I'm blanking on
his name who played Podcent, Like it's such a beautiful.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Scene between him and David Korn's but and that's like,
what a beautiful intimate break into three.

Speaker 4 (46:32):
By the way, structurally yeah, but yeah, I just felt
like we went a little too like we were almost
into kill a Mockingbird, you know, the Deep South.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah, or just whatever, like the Midwest version of that
is like that was a little.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
Like because it's not just his comedy.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Really, That's kind of how I looked at Yeah, she
was yeah, she she she had a little bit of
that going on, whereas was more serious.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Yes, And I get that.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
And some people were like, oh, there are these moments,
but I'm like, were they kind of like bucked to humor?

Speaker 3 (47:15):
But I'm like, also, you have to understand the movie.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
That he's making, like this is a big, popcorn, slightly
absurd like silver Age and Spyer comic book movie. He
can't let it get And also there were tons of
kids in the theater, so it's like he can't let it.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Get too dark.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
So I think he did such a good job of
like like you got the steaks, you were you were concerned,
you were invested. But he did a good I thought
he used humor in a really good way until give
us like the little like and before we went back
into the action, Yeah, the little breather.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, I just I don't know if this is true.
Or Nazi. I read that the first cut was way
funnier and then and then the studio was like this,
this is too funny, and so then he had to
go through and cut some of that humor out and
kind of retool it. I don't know if that's true
or not, but I'm like, I thought, this film is

(48:06):
kind of funny. I can't even I believe that him.
I wished how hilarious it was. It was like Suicide
Squad funny.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
I wouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
I mean, like, look at the Guardians, like I get that,
and I just it was such when we had the
whole fight with Lois, I was like, that is and
now we're in a James junk. We're in a James
gun joint. Like the whole mister terrific. And because another
thing my friend and Zach and I we talked about
was how the score wasn't awful.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
But like, also, you know you're.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Being I think every do making a good Superman movie,
I think just gets harder and harder as time goes on, because.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
That's because we're getting further away from purity family ideas.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
No mo no, I just think like this character, now
there's way more.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Things for people to have loved to compare it to.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
H and also because it's also such a generational thing.
It's like who is your Superman growing up? And like
but I also think obviously like John Williams, his Superman
theme has had almost fifty years to be enshrined, as
like the Superman wants to hit.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Me with that theme and then the same title bar
I was like I'm.

Speaker 4 (49:25):
In yes, and so one in my my you know,
my friend's act was like I didn't love the score,
like usually the score like does so much for me,
and like I hear you, but that's not really James
Gunn's strong suit as a director.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
He his strong suit is the needle drops.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Yeah, and we got that, and like like the whole
lowest and mister terrific scene at the at the entrance
of the portal, like that's not his, that's not his
bad and it's not like the score. Not trying to
criticize the composer here by.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Any James thing is pop culture music, that's yeah, like
just Guardians of the Galaxies, Like that's his, that's his.
That's how he views soundtracks, right, And I love so I.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Love that he got like four like they like Guardians
of the Galaxy is a whole like moment, It's a
whole vibe.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
But I can just tell this is me trashing he' said.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
I don't want to pay for that much music you have,
like you get like three needless?

Speaker 3 (50:22):
I can, I don't. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
I just I worked in music supervision for a company
that didn't worked with Warner Brothers.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Uh, and I just I can you can hear the conversation. Yeah,
that's pretty great. I love that you're such an insider man.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
It was my strike survival job.

Speaker 4 (50:42):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Well yeah, is there is there anything else? Before I
let you go?

Speaker 3 (50:49):
I could probably talk about this forever.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
I don't know. I don't know who you who.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
I don't know if you realize who you asked to
talk about?

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Superman is like I don't know. I just get. I
mean because I get concocts my favorite movie, Spider Man.
I think.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
I don't know about you, but I just feel like
people are trying to find things wrong with it because
it's it's a big movie.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
My opinion on this is all of the hate that
you see online is for likes, and it's just because
hate cells. Yeah, my my, Like, let's just talk branding,
Like my podcast, My everything I put out there is
branded or based on hope and inspiration because this show

(51:38):
and everything I do is what I wish I had
when I was growing up as a screenwriter. I didn't
have that, so I created this show to be that.
But because of that, my reach hits my niche followers. Yeah. Yeah,
Now if I had, if this wasn't titled The Successful Screenwriter,
if this was titled The Shitty Screenwriter, and I just

(52:00):
went through every movie I watched and just totally bash them,
I would have you know, two million followers, and I
would have hundreds of thousands of you know, views per like,
because hate sells.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
It just does the outreach of it all.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yeah, that's why you see, you know, so much stuff
politically right now is done. The way it's done is
because it hits that that kind of fear center of
the brain drives people and that action keeps their attention.
So I don't listen to it, Like when I see people, Oh,
I hated this movie, and I want to watch the

(52:38):
movie now because now I want to make an educated,
informed opinion on it. I might like the movie, I
might agree with you, that's a shitty movie, but I
might find pieces of the movie that I find interesting,
Whereas you have been not you, but a person stating.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
That no, it was me. I've been trolling you for years.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Damn it. I knew and had been brainwashed into hating stuff.
So yeah, I don't. I don't buy any of it,
even the Zack Snyder stuff. I had disagreements with a
lot of Yeah, the choices, but I still appreciated what
he was going for. It was the save Martha part
that got me. But that's that's a that's a writing issue. Yeah,

(53:19):
that doesn't invalidate all of the films and all of
the characters and journeys and the work that he's put
into it. It's just that I would have been like,
if I was on said, I'd been like, I mean,
can we just talk about this for a second.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
He's also I've been on a Zack Snyder set. He's
a very lovely man. I bet he's cool, and like
he's cool and his all of his crew was cool.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
I enjoy his work.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Remember the name of it, but the one where the
girl is is traveling through her dreams. I thought was
very very good. Oh sucker punch, sucker punch.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
Yes, Oh my god, that's such a deep cut.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
I love that film.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
And I love it for Oscar Isaac.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Oh well, I think that's how he got his start, right.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
That was one of those Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, but I thought she I thought it was well,
I did. I love the vision of it. I love
the fact that it was dark and and it just
was unappreciated. But you know, if you want to argue
about it, I think Watchman is brilliant, you know, but
there's people that just hate this.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
So those three hundred so that lively changed the game.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
Well, I think too. Also, yes, like hate cells. What
I also feel like, especially within film, people if something's
like we have to undo this this thing of like
if something is popular and made for the masses and
made well, you can still love that. Like one of
my favorite comedians, you know how Letterbox is like letterboxes
on red carpets now and they.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Ask like all the stars what their four favorite films are.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
And one of my favorite comedians, Chris Lemming, who I
think is an actual genius, Like he does this hilarious
like impression bit where he just names like he just
comes up with four of the most absurd, bizarre like
names of films no one's ever heard of. Because it
it's like now become this like thing of like I can't,
like you can't say.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Your favor for four favorite films and on that top
of my head, I'd sit there for a few minutes
really thankful.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
Well, it's also and that no one like like no
one just says like force gone.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
You know, it's like or because mine, what would I be?

Speaker 4 (55:17):
Spider Man, Richie Jones's diary, Mulin Rouge, and maybe Rock
and Man. And it's just like like I I don't know,
it's just I just think it's funny that like I
just think we have this weird especially with within our
like filmmaking community, like we can't love something that's big

(55:37):
and splashy and popular and meant and meant to appeal
to like the masses like that. I'm sorry, but that's
that doesn't actually make you like smart.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
I see, I would have the Fountain, okay if I
was the Kingdom of Heaven. I think is Double Star
Wars episode.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Six, why what hell not? Iconic?

Speaker 2 (56:09):
One of my favorite and people hate it? I'm like
ewoks and everything. I'm down, and then a fourth one.
I don't know, I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
I just don't. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
I just think, like I don't know if it's because
we're in this world of like hey and like we
can just have a good time.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
We can just say we love movies that are entertaining.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, well, you know, if the if the algorithms would
promote that, then we would. But the algorithms just promote hate.
And we wonder why society's wait is we have veered
off from the Superman film analysis lady.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
Well, no, because I think Superman I'm bringing a bit
bring back Superman is speaking.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
To these larger things. That's why I brought it up.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
I love it. That was expertly done, Victoria. I'd like
to have you back on this show if you find
the time.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
Oh I'm all dude, I'm sorry it's taken this long.
And thank you again so much for coming out. This
man flew out to LA to watch me read my
INSYNCT fan fiction with a bunch of celebrities, so I
really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Was pretty amazing. It was a great experience. It was
for a good cause. I was happy to do it again.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Thank you. But yes, I'm I'm whenever.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
I shall be here whenever you need me, just like
that little kid on Superman.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Yep, I'll summon you please, all right, Thank you, Nie Hey.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
If this episode helped you out, share it with a
writer who needs it, and if you haven't yet, follow
and leave a quick rating. It helps more screenwriters like
you find the show. Finally, you can also connect with
me on Instagram at screenwriter Pod. Thanks again for listening.
Keep writing,

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Ep. 277 – "Superman" Film Analysis: Subversion, Subtext, & Stakes

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 277 – "Superman" Film Analysis: Subversion, Subtext, & Stakes