January 22, 2025 • 54 mins
In this episode, Jessica shares her personal journey of being laid off from a Fortune 100 tech company and the steps she took to navigate this transition with strategy & resilience. The conversation delves into managing emotions during layoffs, understanding severance packages, job searching strategies, and the importance of networking.
Jessica and Brandon dive into:
• Sharing Jessica's layoff experience and emotional response
• Importance of understanding severance packages and your finances
• Strategies and tips for effective job searching
• Navigating the interview process and negotiations
• The value of networking in finding new opportunities
Be sure to connect with us on socials @thesugardaddypodcast we are most active on Instagram
Learn more about Brandon and schedule a free 30-minute introductory call with him
Watch this episode on YouTube
Leave us a question via voicemail to be answered during future episodes
You can email us at: thesugardaddypodcast@gmail.com
Notes from the show:
Email template Jessica read in the episode
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In today's episode I discuss that I was laid off last
September from a Fortune 100tech company and I detail
exactly what I did to land mynext job, which I'm happily
starting in 2025.
So if you are facing a layoffor know somebody who has stay
(00:20):
tuned, this episode is for you.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Today we are talking about how I was laid off from my
corporate nine to five inSeptember of 2024.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, fun times back then.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Fun times.
We're gonna get real raw andhonest here.
I mean, there's definitelypeople, obviously, who know and
I've shared it with and it waswasn't something that I shied
away from and we've done anepisode like this before in the
past.
It was actually episode 38.
Feels like a lifetime ago,february 2024.
We are now in 2025.
But now I'm speaking fromfirsthand experience and full
(01:17):
transparency.
I've never been laid off before.
This was also not somethingthat I saw coming.
It was something that was notperformance-based Like I wasn't
on a pip.
This was literally one of those.
You know another massive layoffwe hear about them all the time
.
We typically this company does,you know, two a year.
(01:37):
They're very big impact.
This last one impacted almost7,000 people, and so at some
point, you just get to a pointwhere you know you're just not
safe.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I have a you know a client that was at the same
company as Jess, in a differentrole, A completely different you
know part of the company, butshe was affected by the layoff
as well.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, so it's.
You know it's certainlysomething that we needed to
navigate.
So today's episode is going tobe all about what we did.
As many of you know, I am thebreadwinner in the family, I'm
also the one who holds theinsurance for the family, and so
you know it is a big deal.
Thankfully, we were given areally nice severance, which
(02:22):
certainly helped ease the blow,gave me time to reflect and do
the things that I recommendpeople in a similar situation do
.
But I understand that getting asix month severance is coming
from a place of privilege.
So that is what this episode isgoing to be about.
Long intro there, let's get intoit.
(02:43):
So a little background, becauseI feel like what happened was a
little.
It just got crazy.
It was a little unique.
So I had shoulder surgery inearly August and my idea was I
was going to take two weeks.
Everybody was like, yeah, youshould.
I mean you work from home,you're not gonna have to drive.
You know, as long as you canreach your keyboard comfortably,
(03:04):
you know I have a standing desk, it'll be fine.
I was not so fine, but it wasactually a really good time
because this company, q1,actually starts in August.
So it was like a part of theyear where that's when people
take vacations, that's whensales kickoff is our entire
sales team, you know, goes toVegas take vacations.
(03:25):
That's when sales kickoff isour entire sales team, you know,
goes to Vegas.
And so it was actually a reallygood time for me to take
another week and I was likenobody's gonna miss me.
Nothing really is happeningthat I need to be a part of.
So I ended up taking anotherweek.
So I took three weeks and Ithink maybe two days of of leave
for my shoulder surgery, ofleave for my shoulder surgery.
Now the technology that I wasbrought in to help manage I
(03:55):
could start.
I was seeing the writing on thewall Like I knew that this
technology was not going to likestand the test of time, and so
my role actually startedpivoting into rolling out an AI
pilot for the sales team.
It was a really excitingproject, lots of great potential
.
I was happy to make the pivot.
I went into more of a projectmanagement type role and from
(04:16):
there I started realizing that Ifelt like I was a floater.
I felt like, oh, we need thisproject done, let's tap Jessica
to do it.
Oh, we need to roll out this.
Let's get Jessica to do it.
Oh, we need a new deck for this.
Let's get Jessica to do it, andso.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I just want to pause there for a second because it's
very interesting, because theway that I viewed it was like
you're kind of like a Swiss Armyknife, which means that you can
do a lot of things, however,which you would think normally
is a good thing, but maybesometimes in corporate America,
being the Swiss Army knife isnot necessarily a good thing.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, and I do think it's good to bring a variety of
talents and flexibility to yourroles, right, because I mean,
who knows, this could haveafforded me maybe an extra year,
right, like I had to let myactual project manager go in
another mass layoff a year ago,right?
So, yes and no, I think itdepends on you know what kind of
(05:10):
role you're in and the abilityto Swiss army knife but not
actually be the Swiss army knife.
Right.
I think that, being the Swissarmy knife, where it's like,
well, what is she actually doing?
What is she spending her timedoing?
And then it's these random likewell, she helped do this and
she helped do that and she ledthis and she rolled out that,
and I don't know.
I mean, maybe you know, maybeit's in my head, but the point
(05:31):
is I kind of started seeing thewriting on the wall.
So I was ready for a pivot andso before I went out for medical
leave, I actually wasinterviewing For medical leave.
I actually was interviewinginternally for a different role
ended up getting.
That role was on a completelydifferent team, was in a
completely different sector ofthe business.
(05:53):
I was really excited about it.
The director for that unit thatwould have been who I would
have been reporting into hadspent 10 years at Google.
Who I would have been reportinginto had spent 10 years at
Google.
Like she was sharp and I wasreally excited to learn from her
was able to negotiate a 10%raise, which internally, you
know, is a large amount of money, and that was a whole thing in
(06:16):
itself and so I was reallyexcited.
I was getting ready to tell mymanager that I was accepting
this new role and then therecruiter called and said, hey,
they are going to wait to likehave you sign anything until
after the earnings call.
And if you work for a publiccompany, you know that that is
not a good sign, like if you'reputting anything on pause
(06:39):
because of the earnings call,it's already dead in the water.
And so I looked at Brandon andI was like they're going to wait
until after earnings.
This is not good.
I ended up going out on medleave.
You know this new team alreadyknew about all of that.
And, of course, you know, a fewweeks later, after the earnings
call and the dust had settled,you know they ended up saying,
(07:01):
hey, we are closing thisrequisition.
So I went from I'm reallyexcited about this new role,
this pay bump, you know,learning something new, not
being the quote unquote Swissarmy knife of my team to you
know, the disappointment of,okay, now this role no longer
exists Fast forward.
So this is all kind of in themonth of August, fast forward to
(07:24):
September 16.
My manager put a Monday morningmeeting on my calendar, which
is not uncommon.
Monday was was always our dayfor our one on ones, but she
moved it up in the day again,didn't think of it.
We always keep a very flexibleschedule didn't think anything
of it.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
By 915 mean I was telling brandon like hey, I was
just impacted, I, I was let goyeah, because I remember,
because I was at the gym and shetexted me hey, this is what
happened, finish your workout,you don't need to come home.
But of course I wasn't going tostay there and finish my
(08:03):
workout because I wasn't evenright headspace then, so I
obviously had to come home.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Well, and I was like what are we going to talk about?
Like there's so much that Istill need to wait on Right.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It was more from a support standpoint also.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well, of course, and I appreciated that, but for me
it was I had given that speech,right, hey, how was your weekend
?
You know, I was going intothings, business as usual, and
my manager went straight intothe HR speech and I was like, oh
, this is what we're doing.
(08:32):
And you know, this is a managerthat I've worked with at a past
company, that I've learned aton from that I really respect
as a leader, and especially as aleader for women.
Like she is the person who goesto bat for women, you know,
helps you negotiate, wants youto get everything that you can,
(08:53):
you know, when you'renegotiating.
So this was nothing.
I never felt like this was apersonal attack on me.
I could see that she wasuncomfortable delivering this HR
speech and I just remember,because there's nothing you can
do at that point.
Technically, you can, I guess,contest it or put in for like a
(09:17):
what is it called?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Where you dispute their decision.
But it's just not going to goin your favor, like the, to
spend the time and energy andeffort to do that with a fortune
100 company, like, if you've ifyou've ever done that and it
was successful, let me know,we'd love to have you on the pod
For me.
And where my headspace was, Iwas like, nah, we're not going
down the route.
So I let her do her speech, shelet me, you know, know what I
(09:44):
was, what I was going to beexpecting as far as paperwork
and you know when.
I would hear more about myseverance and things like that.
But what's really nice, andwhich again is a privilege, is
that they essentially put you ongarden leave, and I didn't
realize that garden leave is aterm, but it's when a company
lets you go but you still have Xamount of time to receive your
(10:10):
pay, your benefits, et cetera,but you're not expected to work.
So from September 16th untilNovember 15th, I was technically
employed, I was receiving mypaycheck, I was receiving
healthcare benefits, all of that, but I was not expected to do
anything right Like.
I cleared my calendar, declinedevery meeting invite and my job
(10:31):
was either to look for a jobinternally or to look for one
externally.
And so Brandon and I, you know,of course, we kind of sat with
the information but we basicallydecided, like, do I look for
things internal or do I look forthings external?
And because I had alreadygotten that new role and then it
was kind of taken away and Ididn't really see anything
(10:53):
internal that it was like reallysparking my interest, I said,
you know what, let's take thisseverance, put it into our high
yield savings, you know, keep itas a cushion for later and move
forward with external roles.
So have you been listening toour podcast and wondering how am
(11:13):
I really doing with my money?
Am I doing the right thingswith my investments?
Am I on track to reach myfinancial goals?
What could I be doing better?
If you answered yes to any ofthese questions, then it's time
for you to reach out to Brandonto schedule your free yes, I
said free 30-minute introductionconversation to see how his
(11:33):
services could help make you themore confident moneymaker we
know you could be.
What are you waiting for?
It's literally free and at thevery least, you'll walk away
feeling more empowered andconfident about your financial
future.
Link is in our show notes Goschedule your call today.
That's the backstory.
(11:54):
I wanted to make sure thateverybody understood, like, how
this happened, so I never tookit personal.
You know, I never even criedabout it and like yeah, I was
actually very surprised, I thinkyou were waiting for me.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I was very surprised when I got home how calm you
were and it wasn't like I wasfreaking out in the sense of oh
no, what are we going to do, youknow?
From that standpoint it wasmore or less like I felt bad for
you because I knew how hard youwork and so.
But you took it I mean a lotbetter than I thought you would
have.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Well, and I was.
You know, if I needed to cry orif I needed to have that moment
of, like, rage ordisappointment, or just, you
know, let my feelings feel, Iwould have done that.
This was not me holding back orlimiting myself in my having
feelings, I just was sodisconnected from like 6000 plus
(12:47):
other people were laid offright, like this wasn't one of
those scenarios where I waspicked and picked on or I was in
this bad situation, or like itliterally was a business
decision and you know, theyde-invest to reinvest, and like
I had been there for three yearsand it happened twice a year.
(13:08):
Every year, I mean they werestill doing layoffs in Europe
because of legalities, from thespring going into the second
layoff, you know, in September,and so I just didn't take it
personal.
I also knew that kind ofwallowing.
You know, if you're going towallow, wallow for X amount of
time, give yourself a weekend,give yourself three days, give
(13:30):
yourself a week.
Do not let yourself go past acertain date because you're not
going to be productive.
So I never had that moment, butI will say I just kind of sat
with the information for abouttwo weeks and again I had a six
month severance coming my wayright.
So I had time and I really do,especially now, understand you
(13:51):
were still healing from shouldersurgery as well.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I was healing.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I was doing PT PT twice a week, like there was a
lot going on, and so I just Itook two weeks to just kind of
be.
You know, I like I was like man, okay, like I don't normally
watch TV, I guess I can watchsome Netflix during the day,
like that's kind of cool.
And you know, I did my PT andlike I met up with friends for
lunch and I really did.
(14:14):
I really did just take twoweeks to just kind of exist and
it was nice.
So I would suggest, you know,sit with your feelings and again
, we've done this episode before, but now I'm really speaking
from a place of experience Justsit with your feelings, let them
process, let them simmer.
You might not feel anything thefirst day, you might feel
everything on the fifth day.
(14:35):
I don't know.
That's going to be up to youand your body.
But just be, don't jump intolike all right, let me do my
resume, let me do my linkedin,let me like just be yeah,
whatever feelings you have,don't suppress them and push
them down like right feel thefeelings feel the feel but then
get past it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Once I was ready to like talkabout it, what I realized is I
(15:05):
needed to help people.
Actually, I'm going to take astep back.
What we did after I got all ofmy paperwork is we sat down and
we looked through it.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I was about to say that.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Sorry, that is actually more important,
especially if you're getting aseverance.
I was like what are the details?
Yeah, what are the details?
You need to understand thatpackage inside and out.
You need to be marking yourcalendar for dates.
You need to be setting youralerts.
I mean, there was specificdates that certain things had to
be done.
Right, I had to sign myseparation agreement at a
certain date and time.
(15:34):
I had to, you know, move someof my stocks that they allowed
us to vest early, you know, by acertain date.
I needed to understand ourhealth insurance.
I needed to understand whichparts of my policies are
portable and do I maybe want toport them.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yes for some of our employee benefits that she had.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So that's something that Brandon and I talked about
Like oh, I have this lifeinsurance, I have this
disability policy, I have X, y,z.
Are these things that we shouldat least look into porting over
to see what is it going to cost?
Do we still have to do thehealth assessment, et cetera, et
cetera.
So I mean it was, you know, 50,60 pages of paperwork.
(16:18):
I printed it out, I had itsaved, I marked key dates.
Brandon and I had a shared noteon our phones with key dates.
Questions that kind of startedpopping up as I started sitting
with the information.
And so get organized, reallyunderstand especially again if
you have a severance reallyunderstand what is that package
and then utilize the resourcesthat are available to you.
So for all of the peopleimpacted at my company, there
(16:40):
was sessions that I could attendand a whole bank of videos to
watch and again, moresupplemental material and q&a's
and faqs and all the things, andI, you know, I started slowly
going through those to make surethat I had all of the answers
that I needed and had answers toall of the questions that I had
(17:00):
.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So some of the key things that I would point out
that once I heard that she waslaid off, that I was very
interested in findinginformation and once she got it,
we went through it in greatdetail was one how long is she
getting paid for?
You know so luckily, in thisscenario she was still
technically employed.
You know for two more months,and then you know a four month
severance from that.
Also, when it comes to aseverance package, you also got
(17:24):
to find out how is that moneygoing to be given to you?
The reason I say that is becauseso, for example, in our
scenario, just a severancepackage technically from a
timeframe would have went intofrom 2024 into 2025.
And she got the four months asa lump sum.
So you're getting more money.
Technically, we got more moneypaid for her in 2024 than she
(17:44):
normally would have made by work, by working there, if she had
still stayed employed.
So, to think about it from atax standpoint, if there's going
to be any issues with that nowalso, the biggest thing is
health care.
How is that being taken care of?
So, luckily, you know as herbeing employed, for the two
months that she was there had aregular health care still, but
once she was through the end ofnovember, even though my last
(18:04):
day was november 15th yeah, so,technically, when you know, her
severance date happened and weno longer had insurance through
there, what was going to beavailable to us?
so, luckily, in this scenario,we had access to cobra and they
gave her an additional lump sumof money to pay for the cobra
right because normally in thatscenario you have to think, hey,
am I going to take cobra?
and I can tell you right nowthat most people.
(18:25):
It's extremely expensivebecause your company is no
longer subsidizing the healthcare they're providing you, so
you're paying the entire amountyourself.
So normally all their onlyother alternative is looking to
the healthcare market to see ifyou can get a plan there.
Or maybe if you have you know,luckily two spouses that have
access to healthcare throughtheir employer, you might have
(18:46):
to actually put everyone on theother person's healthcare plan,
because at that time you wouldbe able to do that, even though
it's not annual enrollment,because you've had one of the
qualifying scenarios happenwhere you can make changes to
your health care, your healthinsurance and just for
transparency, as a family offour to continue our health care
benefits we are paying almost$2,700 a month.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So we had to pay that for December.
My new employer is going topick up my insurance starting in
February, so for the month ofJanuary we had to do COBRA as
well.
So I mean you know you'relooking at over $5,000 for two
months of insurance.
That's not a little bit ofmoney.
And again, thankfully that waspart of my severance package to
(19:28):
pay for that.
So especially, you know we wentto Panama for Christmas in 2024
.
Not that we would ever beuninsured, but we were looking
at can we get some sort of aplan that just kind of keeps us
afloat, you know, in case ofemergencies?
But I was still going to PT andyou know, as soon as you make a
change to your insurance,something happens with the kids
(19:51):
and so we said let's just keepour continuation of our benefits
and let's do COBRA.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And because it was essentially paid for but one
other thing, too, that you know,especially if you're working in
the tech space that you want tobe aware of, is how are any
RSUs that you may have beengiven?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Restricted stock units.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yes, restricted stock units, yes, restricted stock
units for those individuals whodidn't know what that means.
But how are those gonna bedistributed to you?
So, for example, often you arebasically given a certain amount
at a given time but they haveto vest.
So you have them but you don'thave them.
And luckily, in just a scenario, they expedited some of the
(20:34):
ones that normally would nothave vested in time for her to
have them when she was separated, but that was part of her
severance package for them to upthe date on some of those.
So that helped, you know,provide a little bit of
additional money that shereceived from those RSUs.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, which was really nice.
I mean I left a ton on thetable.
They call them golden handcuffsfor a reason, but you know we
started cashing them out forvarious things in the past once
they vested, and so you know, ifyou have access to RSUs or you
can negotiate them upon entry toa new company, absolutely do
that, because you know it's niceto have them.
(21:10):
So it's pretty standard in thetech space, once you get to a
certain level in your career, tobe able to access those.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, the big thing that we want to focus on here is
that once you know that you'vebeen laid off and you understand
your severance package, youwant to also adjust your budget
accordingly to make sure thatone all your expenses that are
necessities are covered and thatyou don't obviously run out of
money prior to getting a new job.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, and our goal really was to not use as much of
the severance as possible,because we really just did want
to put it back into savings andkind of pad that back up.
I don't plan on leaving techanytime soon, and tech is a
volatile space and so having astrong emergency fund is always
a top priority for us, and so wedidn't want to, you know, get
(21:58):
this large check and be like woo, we're ready to party Like no
that was not the case.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, cause like the idea is that technically she has
um, still money from herseverance for the month of
January and February, but shestarted a new job and so
hopefully the idea with that wasit's it was two months worth of
income that we don't need touse.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, but going into, you know, analyzing the budget,
of course we looked at ournumbers, we looked at
subscriptions what can we cutjust to give us a little bit
more of a buffer?
And we ended up really onlycutting one thing, which is my
subscription, or, I guess,membership to like a massage,
(22:38):
like a monthly massage or facial, that I pay a membership for.
I actually ended up putting iton hold.
I called them and I wastransparent and I said, hey,
I've been let go.
Is there anything that you cando for my membership?
Typically they will do a onemonth hold and since I just came
off of surgery and I wasn'treally getting massages because
(23:00):
I couldn't lay in a certain way,they actually were able to do
two months and then they delayedcharging my card once it
re-upped, and so that really gotme back into January again,
which is really nice.
So as far as like TVsubscriptions and things, we
either get them, you know, freethrough our credit cards or
(23:21):
through the phone plan, etc.
Etc.
The other thing that I wasconsidering is should we cut our
housekeeper, who comes everyother week and I just know
myself, and if the house is notclean I'm not going to be
productive, and so having herand her team come every other
week to just keep things kind ofin order and keep things going
(23:44):
on the cleanliness side, I thinkwas really important, and so we
did not cut that expense.
Am I missing anything?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
No, I mean, the key point that we want to put here
is that we got the information.
We sat down together and wentthrough a plan of action of how
to get through this time frameuntil she found employment again
.
Right, and that's the big thingis that we talk through
everything.
Once again, it's scheduling thetime.
Obviously, we have the time andmaking a plan and sticking to
(24:18):
that plan.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, yeah.
We just needed to have opencommunication, and I'm pretty
sure I even said in that meetinglike, hey, do we get rid of
housekeeping?
I know that if the house is notclean, that's not going to help
me find a job, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
So and the thing is, too, is's not going to help me
find a job.
You know so.
And the thing is, too, is that,even though you make a plan in
place, you know as like, let'ssay hypothetically, we were
getting to middle of January andshe still hadn't found
employment.
So we have a month and a halfleft or you know, we get to the
beginning of February andnothing has happened, then
obviously we would make moredrastic cuts.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's get into some of the moretactical things.
So if you've been listening tothis podcast for a while, you
know your resume should beupdated.
Like I don't care if you arethe CEO of the company, you need
to update your resume.
So my resume, of course.
Again, I had just gotten thatinternal job, so my resume was
(25:08):
up to date, ready to go.
But if you have been laid off,I mean, one of the first things
you should be doing is updatingyour resume, making sure that
all of your latest achievements,accomplishments, contributions
are there and clearly spelledout.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And also you should probably, throughout the course
of the year, set calendarreminders just to update your
resume, because there might bebig projects that you've worked
on and completed and thoseshould be things that you
highlight in your resume.
You don't want to forget aboutit.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
At the end of every quarter, do a little sweep of
your resume and think about theprojects that you've completed,
the contributions that you'vemade, the successes that you've
seen.
If you're not going to do it,you know, once a quarter, I
would say first half, secondhalf, I mean bare minimum.
You should be looking at thattwice a year.
There's just no reason not toand you forget what you're doing
(25:59):
and what results you're seeingif you're not keeping track.
So, by kind of keeping track ofwhat you're completing, putting
that on your resume, keepingsome sort of a brag sheet, have
that stuff handy because it'sgoing to be important,
especially in the event that youget laid off.
Once you have your resumecomplete, you can transfer all
(26:20):
that information onto yourLinkedIn profile.
I would not suggest actuallyuploading your resume, but those
key bullets, your skills, etc.
You know, make sure that thatis all updated on LinkedIn.
I've said it before.
Make sure you have aprofessional headshot.
This is not the time to have apicture of you, you know, at
(26:41):
your wedding in your weddingdress, like the things that I
see on LinkedIn.
I'm just like.
This is not Facebook.
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So question for you why would you not upload your
resume onto LinkedIn?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
If you're going to upload your resume on LinkedIn,
I would remove your keyinformation like your personal
email address Some people Idon't personally put my address
anymore because I was onlylooking for remote roles but you
can have your city and state.
It's really about privacy.
You know you might have yourphone number on there.
You don't want that on displayfor the world.
(27:14):
You also, as silly as it sounds, you don't want to put
everything out there because youknow people are going to beg,
borrow and steal.
So you don't want youraccomplishments from your resume
all of a sudden showing up onsomebody else's resume as well.
So you want to keep some thingskind of you know for yourself.
(27:35):
Now, the overarching, like dayto day role and responsibilities
, you know, put that into thatcareer section.
But as far as everything that'son your resume, like teed up in
a resume or a CV, I simplywouldn't upload it.
But I do see it from time totime.
Yeah, you can also on LinkedIn,make yourself open to work.
(27:58):
I ended up making myself open towork for recruiters only and I
did not end up doing the greenbanner.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with the green banner.
I know there's a lot of backand forth discussion.
There's two sides of the camp.
People are like that's sodesperate, don't do it.
And then recruiters are like no, you're literally letting us
know you're open to work, so whynot?
(28:19):
I just decided not to.
I also decided not to do thebig like hey, I've been impacted
type post.
If you're active on LinkedIn,you're probably seeing those a
lot as well.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with them, but I do think
if you're going to take the timeto do that kind of a post, you
(28:40):
need to add value and let peopleknow what is it that you're
looking for specifically.
Too many times I see posts thatare like hey, I'm looking for
my next role in projectmanagement.
If you can help me, let me know.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Very generic.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
What sector are you in?
What kind of team do you workon?
Like?
What part of project managementdo you excel in?
You know what are yoursuccesses?
Like it's so generic whereyou're really letting people
come to their own conclusion ofwhat project management is, and
I think that's a misstep that alot of people are making.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Also a little call out here is that we have the
mindset that even when you'rehappily employed I'm always open
to listening to you knowpossibility of better
opportunities.
So there is a way to, like shesaid, let recruiters know that
you are open to employmentwithout quote unquote being out
there publicly where, like say,your current employer can see it
.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Right, that's a great call out.
I think you have to get reallyclear on what you're looking for
.
So that reflection component wetalked about it in the last
episode you have to reallyunderstand like what are you?
What are you really wanting toget out of this next role?
Right, it could be.
Do you want to be hybrid?
Do you want to be an office?
Do you want to work 100% remote?
(29:53):
Right, it could be.
Do you want to be hybrid?
Do you want to be in office?
Do you want to work 100% remote?
Do you want opportunity totravel?
Do you want to lead a team?
You know, do you value a higherbase salary over?
You know, maybe PTO, likewhatever it is that's important
to you.
Get crystal clear on that,because as you start telling
people that you're interested inXYZ opportunity, they're going
to ask like oh, are you okaywith coming in the office three
(30:15):
days a week Because we'verecently changed our in-office
policy, right?
And if you are like, yeah, Iguess I'm telling you right now
I'm not going in the officethree days a week.
Now, if I need to travel and beon site and go into the office,
happy to do that.
Otherwise, on a regular Mondaythrough Friday.
I don't need to be sitting intraffic for two hours a day to
be in someone's office.
(30:36):
That is where I am in mycurrent life right now and where
my boundaries are, and I madethat very clear to people.
And you have to really read thefine line to the fine print,
because there's a lot of jobsout there now that are touting
themselves as remote and thenwhen you get into that fine
print or you speak to therecruiter, they're like well, we
(30:57):
actually have a hub, so-and-so.
So if there's a hub within 50miles, then you're expected to
be in the office, you know, twoor three days a week.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
AKA, not remote.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
So there was a lot of that nonsense that was
happening.
Same thing with salaryexpectations, right?
Do you know your numbers?
Of course, everybody wants toincrease their salary year over
year, especially if you'rechanging companies.
You're changing maybe industrysector, et cetera.
Nobody's trying to go backwardsin their salary.
But what else is important toyou?
(31:30):
Maybe it's an education stipend, maybe you can get a severance
built in.
Maybe there's a RSUs.
Maybe there's RSUs, maybethere's a conference or two that
you've been really wanting togo to that you haven't been able
to go to in the past.
Have a list of things, asidefrom your base salary, that are
really important to you, becausethose are all things that you
can eventually negotiate, areall things that you can
(31:52):
eventually negotiate.
What I will say is there wereseveral you know jobs that I was
able to interview for, met withrecruiters and the you know the
salary was x.
And then by the time you say,oh well, I'm located in North
Carolina, and they go, oh well,in that case, the salary is this
and it's 40 or $60,000 lowerthan what was advertised.
(32:12):
This and it's 40 or $60,000lower than what was advertised.
Like that's reallydisappointing.
So just also know that a lot ofthese salaries are really
enticing and they're for the SanFrancisco Bay area or they're
for the New York you know office.
They're not for your office inMilwaukee.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Also, too.
One thing that we actually didtogether is we talked through
these things together.
Also, too.
One thing that we actually didtogether is we talked through
these things together.
So, you know, having someoneyou know to be your sounding
board in regards to talkingthrough these, to get very clear
on what it is you enjoyed about, you know the role that you
were let go from and what weresome of the things that you
didn't enjoy, so that whenyou're going to looking for your
new role, you are very clearand specific about what it is
(32:52):
you want to do and the thingsthat, like Jess has said, things
that just aren't up fornegotiation, they're not an
option for you.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right and you know, realizing that what maybe is not
an option in your first monthto three months of job searching
might later need to become anoption, but at the beginning
certainly hold firm to.
You know what you know is goingto make your work-life balance
what you want and need it to beright, because you still need to
(33:20):
show up every day once you gethired and that was also a good
call out.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
There is that you know, if you're taking a little
bit longer to find something,then things might pivot.
Because early on Jess got someoffers.
They just weren't in line withwhat she was looking for and
thankfully we're in a scenariowhere she didn't just have to
take the first thing that camealong.
She could be very intentionalabout what her next move was
going to be, but she definitelyturned down a couple offers that
(33:45):
just didn't align.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah that.
And going on in the interviewprocess, right After you've
spoken to the recruiter, maybeeven the hiring manager, or
maybe you've been on a panelthis is your time to remember
that you were interviewing themas well.
So if something feels off,you're like there's something
(34:07):
about this hiring manager thatdoesn't feel right, or I don't
know if this team culture isgoing to be a fit for me.
Like in some cases, you justneed to go with your gut and say
thanks but no thanks.
I really appreciate thisopportunity.
I'm going to remove myself fromthe candidacy pool, right,
because you don't want to wastetheir time.
But, even more important, youdon't want to waste your time,
(34:29):
especially when finding a joband interviewing and preparing
for those interviews.
Those are full-time jobs inthemselves, so you don't have
time to waste.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
And also, too, as far as for the interviews that you
may have, that ultimately thejob just isn't alignment for you
and maybe they wanted to offerit to you.
You don't want to burn bridgesbecause these might be companies
down the line that have otheropportunities open and be like
hey, I remember interviewingso-and-so.
They were really great.
Unfortunately, we didn't haveenough money to pay for the role
, but this other role that wejust opened up is perfect for
them.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, and that's what I would say.
I would say you know, ifthere's more senior roles that
come available down the line, Ihope you.
You know, keep me in mind,let's connect on LinkedIn, stay
in touch.
And everybody was like yeah.
And everybody was like, yeah,that sounds great, Absolutely.
I had a lot of interviews, too,where the recruiters would
start with hey, let's talk aboutyour salary expectations
because, based on yourbackground and experience, I
(35:21):
don't think we're going to align.
Aka they knew that I was pricedout from whatever their role
was, which I appreciated.
So some of the phone screensessentially that I had were
under 15 minutes because, listen, we don't show up to volunteer,
we show up to get paid.
Right, I will do a great job,but you will pay me for it, and
(35:42):
so if there's not alignmentthere, then there's nothing else
to talk about.
Let's stay in touch.
Let me know if there'ssomething more senior coming up.
Thanks, but no thanks.
I wish you the best in findingthe right candidate, Right, so
just don't waste your time.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
And I would say that's another call out for
people that you know were theelder millennials.
So we're a few, you know,several years into our careers.
You can ask what the salary isgoing to be If someone's not
willing to tell you what thesalary is going to be beforehand
.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I'm not working there , that's right.
I don't need to waste my time,nor your time.
If the money is nowhere nearwhat I'm looking for, yeah, 100%
.
One other thing you knowtalking about interviewing and
applying and prepping for theseinterviews it's all the job, and
so one thing that I think isreally important is to have a
mindset of how many jobs do youwant to apply for every day.
I will say we are out of thewindow of like I applied for
five jobs and I, you know, gotto two out of four offers.
(36:34):
Like it's just not happening.
There's too many talentedpeople in the job market and
mentally I was like, all right,it's gonna take me six to eight
months to find what I'm lookingfor.
But I would say keep a scheduleright.
Like it's really easy to be.
Like oh Netflix, like what'sgood, what's popping.
You need a schedule.
(36:55):
I'm going to be at my desk bynine.
I'm going to work until youknow 1130, I'm going to take a
break.
I'm going to go to the gym,whatever it is.
Have a schedule of when you'regoing to be applying, when
you're going to be reaching outto recruiters on LinkedIn, when
you're going to be sendingemails.
You know you need to have somesort of structure around your
(37:15):
daily activity, and I do meandaily, because you need to be
applying for jobs every singleday.
My goal was to apply to 15 to 20jobs a day.
Some of them were, you know,directly on the portal.
Some of them were quick applyon LinkedIn.
Some applications took twominutes.
Other applications took 20minutes or you know longer.
(37:39):
Some of them have littlebuilt-in assessments.
I mean, all sorts of things arehappening.
You need to have a schedule inplace and you need to make sure
that you are allotting dedicatedtime to this job search, the
interview process, prepping forthe interview, maybe doing some
mock interviews, you know, withfriends, family, your spouse,
etc.
(37:59):
To make sure you get any ofthose jitters out.
Especially if you haven't beenin the job search for a while,
you know it can feel a littlescary and intimidating.
So having the right prep forthese interviews is really
important.
I look like you were gonna saysomething.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay, I did write down in my notes to get your
mind right, to interview Y'all.
There's a lot of nonsensehappening out there.
You know, overall, I would saymy experience was really good.
I was blessed I'm blessed witha really great network of people
.
People were very willing to putme through their referral
(38:40):
portals.
I asked people forrecommendations on LinkedIn and
got them.
No problem.
Talk about giving yourself alittle ego boost, like ask
people to write you arecommendation on LinkedIn and
then them.
No problem.
Talk about giving yourself alittle ego boost, like ask
people to write you arecommendation on LinkedIn and
then see what they wrote.
I mean, oh my gosh, it was sohumbling, it was so great to see
(39:01):
that so many people you knowgenuinely were like Jessica's a
rock star, we love working withher, et cetera.
So you know, that's somethingthat you could probably
incorporate throughout the yearas well, and not do it like I
did, which is wait until you getfired.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Well, the thing is, I do want to call out here
because one you made it veryeasy for people to make
recommendations for you and alsoto pass you through the job
referral, because you gave thema very clear picture of what it
is you were looking for.
I'm going to get to that, okay,yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
I'm going to get to that.
Um, okay, let's.
Let's go into what Brandon'stalking about.
So you know that we're veryfirm on like your network is how
you get work.
So you should always benetworking, connecting with
people, going to networkingevents, going to conferences
when you can, you know, andbeing intentional.
If you meet somebody new, like,hey, let me get your LinkedIn
(39:51):
and like, connect and send thema message hey, it was great
meeting you at so and so event.
That way, a year from now, whenthey are posting a job, you can
at least go back to thatmessage to say, oh, I met them
at so and so conference.
Or I met them at thisnetworking event.
Like, let me jog their memory.
You know, hey, we met at thisevent back in da da, da, da da.
I saw you posted this.
(40:11):
Can you tell me a little bitmore about the role right, like
so, make those connections begenuine, but also just follow up
so that you have that referenceof how you met that person.
What I did after I, you know,took my two weeks of just like
me time is I had a coupleconversations with friends and
people in my network and somementors to talk about.
(40:33):
You know what is it that I'mlooking for?
And that really helped me breakdown.
You know my kind of my musthaves, my nice to haves, my need
to haves, you know all of thosethings that were really
important to me in this role.
And so what I ended up doing isI ended up kind of putting
together an email that I sentout to friends, family, people
(40:54):
in my network.
I sent it to people on LinkedIn, not like an email blast on
LinkedIn, but like people who Iknow are well connected, are
posting jobs, etc.
And I was hyper specific onwhat I was looking for.
So I'm actually going to readan excerpt of what I sent.
So just know, I started withlike I'm writing to let you know
(41:17):
that I was part of the 7000people who were recently laid
off.
Although I understand this was abusiness decision and necessary
pivot into different growthareas, no one wants to be on the
other side of that call.
So I kind of did like a littlebackground of like hey, here's
what happened.
This was not performance based.
This was not, you know, jessica, getting a slap on the wrist.
You did something wrong, like Iwas part of a mass layoff,
(41:38):
right?
I thank the people who havealready asked how they can help.
I said you know, if we're notalready connected on LinkedIn,
please connect.
And I linked my LinkedIn andthen I said, if you'd like to
help me find my next role, I amnarrowing my job search into
these areas.
So here's the thing, and I'mgoing to pivot just a second,
because too many times we, aspeople, we say, oh, I'm in tech
(42:03):
or oh, I'm in project managementor oh, I'm in, you know,
consulting.
The reality is is nobody knowswhat that means.
Nobody knows what you do allday.
Like my closest friends cannotgive a description of what I do
all day.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Your husband couldn't .
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Right, Like half the time he's like oh, I was talking
to so-and-so and they askedwhat you did and I was like uh,
sales, and I'm like I did not.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
No, I know you don't do sales, Come on now.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
But I do say like hey , you could probably get a
better idea by talking to Jess,right?
So, like people don't know whatyou do, you say project
management and I say projectmanagement, it means literally a
completely different thing,right?
So you have to paint thepicture for people and get
really clear on.
What does that mean?
What are you good at?
What do you do during the day?
(42:49):
What industries and sectors areyou focused on?
What kind of people do you liketo work with?
What kind of team structure doyou want?
Like, give them you're gonnaword vomit all of this.
You need to give them thedetails so that when they see in
their job board or in theirSlack community this job pop up,
they'll say, oh, I rememberJessica said XYZ, okay, so I
(43:13):
would just wanted to kind of teethat up.
So here's what I said.
If you'd like to help me find mynext role, I am narrowing my
job search into these areasIndustries, in order, technology
, with a focus on SaaS, andservices, healthcare and
education.
I am open to other industries,but this is where my most recent
experiences are and I feel mostconfident Experience level,
senior manager and up Y'all.
(43:34):
I am not early in career, I amnot 22.
Do not send me job descriptionsfor something that is asking
for one to three years ofexperience.
That is not me and it's notgoing to be the salary that I'm
looking for.
Again, you have to be hyperdetailed when you're letting
people know what level of careertitle are you looking for.
(43:55):
So I said senior manager and up, either as an individual
contributor or leading a team.
Work locations remote.
I'm currently in a global roleand happy to continue with that
or focus solely on the Americas.
Travel when needed is totallyfine.
Work functions.
I am focusing on program andproject management, sales
(44:16):
enablement and sales tooling,digital transformation, change
management strategy and planningrevenue operations.
And then I said I excel inproblem solving and thinking
outside of the box, removingbottlenecks and building out
processes and operating modelsthat make life easier, engaging
stakeholders and buildingchampions to help roll out big
company initiatives, leadinghigh growth teams that crush
(44:38):
goals, rolling out programs atscale and creating content that
converts readers into customers.
I am eager to find a companythat puts its people first, has
great work-life balance andawesome benefits.
I would love to work for a teamthat is actively working on
building out a great program orprocess where I can truly come
in and leave my mark.
If you know of people in yournetwork that have open or coming
(45:01):
soon positions in the areasabove and are open to helping me
finding a new role through yourreferral program or portal, I
will gladly welcome a warmintroduction or the assist.
And then I closed with you know.
Thank you so much, and Iattached my resume as well.
Again, these are people I knowpersonally.
This was a personal emailcoming from me to my friends,
people in my family.
You know people in my network.
(45:22):
So again, I painted the pictureof like here's what I like,
here's what I'm good at buildingout processes, models,
frameworks etc.
I can't just go and say, hey,I'm, you know, in project, in
program management.
People don't know what thatmeans.
Spell it out for them, gethyper focused.
And if it takes you a week ortwo or three to figure out well,
(45:45):
what am I looking for, that'sokay.
It's better to take the timeyou need to get hyper-focused,
like I did, than to just put ablanket message out on LinkedIn
that says, hey, I'm looking formy next role.
Any help is appreciated.
What?
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And in those scenarios most people want to
help you, but you didn't givethem any guidance on how to help
you, so then they can't thinkof you.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
They can't think of you when they see something in
their network or at theircompany, because they have no
idea what it is.
You do what you like, whatyou're good at, what you've done
in the past.
Like you did not paint thepicture, so you have to paint
the picture for people.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
And one thing I would say one of the reasons why,
when we got the news about justbeing laid off, that, why when
we got the news about just beinglaid off, that, obviously
you're you know you have aslight worry in the sense of
that's everybody does.
But why I wasn't like extremelyworried is because one I know
how awesome of you know her workethic is and what she brings to
the table for any employer, butthen also I know that she's
(46:42):
always networking.
She is always networking andit's just her superpower, it's
second nature to and I was likeyou're going to find something
soon because you're alwayshaving these conversations with
people.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
And I will say my network is how I got work Right.
And you have to have a sense ofvulnerability too.
I message people you know thatI hadn't connected with in a
while, or people that I'm verywell connected with, and I said,
hey, I've been impacted.
Here's what I'm looking for.
Can you help?
Or I saw you're connected tothis person.
(47:14):
Can you make an introduction?
Can you send me an email?
Can you send me the link toyour internal referral portal?
Like, you have to ask for whatyou want.
People are very well intentioned, people are very open to
helping you, but you have tomake it easy for them right?
Like, don't make the peopleyou're asking for help do the
work.
Tee up your bio, tee up alittle email snippet that they
(47:36):
can quickly cut and paste to thehiring manager or to the
recruiter.
One thing that I did is I wentand applied to several jobs at
larger companies and then I wentback to my contacts there and I
said, hey, I just applied forthis role.
Here's the requisition link andthe requisition number.
Any chance you know the hiringmanager.
(47:56):
And even in the event wherethey were like yeah, I have no
idea who that is, but I'm happyto reach out on your behalf.
That's great, because now myapplication is already in the
portal and now they're getting atap from somebody internal
saying, hey, just wanted to flagthis resume, wanted to flag
this name for you, so and so isawesome.
You know, we'd be happy to haveher at X company.
(48:17):
If you've already applied,that's OK.
There's other ways to get infront of the recruiters and the
hiring managers, so I could talkabout this all day.
We wanted to give you a littleglimpse into, like, what we've
been going through and how wehandled this.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yes, I do have one more small detail.
What we found out was is thatonce you got set, once you got
let go, one of the things wewent to go look and do is hey,
is she eligible for unemployment?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Which I've never filed before in my entire life.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
And also too, if you are eligible for unemployment
which I've never filed before inmy entire life and also too, if
you are eligible forunemployment, take it because
you are paying into it.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, we've had friends in the past who are like
no, we can leave that money forother people who truly need it.
That is not how the systemworks.
If you are eligible forunemployment, even if you only
use it for a week or two, goahead and apply.
But what Brandon was about tosay is I was not eligible
because my severance was goingto take me into, you know, q1 of
(49:13):
2025 yes, so if you have aseverance, then you are not
eligible for until yourseverance is yeah, so your
severance ends.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
You are not eligible for unemployment yes, but you
know again, it was somethingthat we learned in the process
and yeah, but we just wanted todouble check yeah, absolutely so
.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
If you have a severance, you know, wait until
that severance is over to applyum, but if you don't have a
severance, absolutely apply forunemployment immediately.
You've been paying into thatsystem.
The money is yours.
You're not taking it from a potthat doesn't, you know, belong
to you.
(49:48):
Don't have those feelings, yeah.
If you have any questions aboutwhat else I went through?
Want a copy of you know theemail that I sent or whatever.
Like, just reach out, it's,it's a.
It's tough out there, it reallyis.
You know, you're probably goingto have to stock some of the
recruiters.
People do not follow up.
(50:09):
People don't send calendarinvites that they said they were
going to send.
They don't send benefit packageinformation that they said they
were going to send.
They don't call you.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
You ran into some really interesting recruiters
were like this is your job, it'sliterally your job and you're
so bad at it.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
I don't understand.
I'm like how do people keepthose jobs?
Because?
Speaker 2 (50:33):
this is literally your job and I'm following up
Because, as a recruiter, you getadditional pay for putting
people into these roles, so whywould you not be on top of
sending information that yousaid you were going to send?
Speaker 1 (50:43):
It's weird.
Shout out to the greatrecruiters out there, because
they will literally make all thedifference.
Shout out to the greatrecruiters out there, because
they will literally make all thedifference.
I will also say I'veinterviewed with companies where
the process was just fallingapart at every turn.
And that's a turnoff too,because you're like, oh, if you
can't get it right in therecruiting process, is this what
I'm signing up for for my dayto day?
(51:04):
Because I don't think I'minterested in that either.
My day to day, because I don'tthink I'm interested in that
either.
So you know, in some of thesesituations I just had to go with
my gut and say thanks, but nothanks.
Let's stay in touch, but it's ano for now.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
But just again we were very fortunate in those
scenarios where you didn't haveto just accept something to.
You know have money coming in.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yes, absolutely, coming from a place of privilege
privilege, but just that to say.
You have to get your mind rightbecause there's a lot of
nonsense happening out there.
It doesn't matter how qualifiedyou are, how much experience
you have, you're going to runinto some things we didn't even
get into the assessments.
There's a lot of assessments,y'all.
(51:45):
You're going to be spendingtime putting together decks and
plans and roadmaps and, you know, I would suggest again, if
you're not 100% or 90% reallyreally excited about that job or
that company or that team,don't take the time to do the
assessments, especially if it'sputting stuff together right
(52:07):
where you're like practicallyhanding over, like here's how I
would handle the first sixmonths of right.
Where you're like practicallyhanding over, like here's how I
would handle the first sixmonths of this role, and you're
like giving them a blueprint toyour IP.
No, thanks, not doing that.
So if you have any questions,honestly send me an email, leave
us, you know, shoot us a DM onInstagram.
I'm happy to answer any ofthese questions, give advice.
(52:30):
You know, I'm certainly not acareers expert, but I do think I
do a lot of things well and youknow, I am starting my new job
with a company I'm super excitedabout on Monday.
So happy January to me, allright.
Hopefully this was helpful.
(52:51):
Y'all go get those jobs, gokeep those jobs.
Make that bag, make that money.
Honey, we'll talk to you soon,don't forget.
Benjamin Franklin said aninvestment in knowledge pays the
best interest.
You just got paid Until nexttime.
(53:16):
Thanks for listening to today'sepisode.
We are so glad to have you aspart of our Sugar Daddy
community.
If you learned something today,please remember to subscribe,
rate, review and share thisepisode with your friends.
Please remember to subscribe,rate, review and share this
episode with your friends,family and extended network.
Don't forget to connect with uson social media at the sugar
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You can also email us yourquestions you want us to answer
(53:38):
for our past the sugar segmentsat the sugar daddy podcast at
gmailcom, or leave us avoicemail through our Instagram.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
Our content is intended to be used, and must be
used, for informationalpurposes only.
It is very important to be usedand must be used for
informational purposes only.
It is very important to do yourown analysis before making any
investment, based upon your ownpersonal circumstances.
You should take independentfinancial advice from a licensed
professional in connection with, or independently research and
verify any information you findin our podcast and wish to rely
upon, whether for the purpose ofmaking an investment decision
or otherwise.
In today's episode I discuss that I was laid off last
September from a Fortune 100tech company and I detail
exactly what I did to land mynext job, which I'm happily
starting in 2025.
So if you are facing a layoffor know somebody who has stay
(00:20):
tuned, this episode is for you.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Today we are talking about how I was laid off from my
corporate nine to five inSeptember of 2024.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, fun times back then.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Fun times.
We're gonna get real raw andhonest here.
I mean, there's definitelypeople, obviously, who know and
I've shared it with and it waswasn't something that I shied
away from and we've done anepisode like this before in the
past.
It was actually episode 38.
Feels like a lifetime ago,february 2024.
We are now in 2025.
But now I'm speaking fromfirsthand experience and full
(01:17):
transparency.
I've never been laid off before.
This was also not somethingthat I saw coming.
It was something that was notperformance-based Like I wasn't
on a pip.
This was literally one of those.
You know another massive layoffwe hear about them all the time
.
We typically this company does,you know, two a year.
(01:37):
They're very big impact.
This last one impacted almost7,000 people, and so at some
point, you just get to a pointwhere you know you're just not
safe.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I have a you know a client that was at the same
company as Jess, in a differentrole, A completely different you
know part of the company, butshe was affected by the layoff
as well.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, so it's.
You know it's certainlysomething that we needed to
navigate.
So today's episode is going tobe all about what we did.
As many of you know, I am thebreadwinner in the family, I'm
also the one who holds theinsurance for the family, and so
you know it is a big deal.
Thankfully, we were given areally nice severance, which
(02:22):
certainly helped ease the blow,gave me time to reflect and do
the things that I recommendpeople in a similar situation do
.
But I understand that getting asix month severance is coming
from a place of privilege.
So that is what this episode isgoing to be about.
Long intro there, let's get intoit.
(02:43):
So a little background, becauseI feel like what happened was a
little.
It just got crazy.
It was a little unique.
So I had shoulder surgery inearly August and my idea was I
was going to take two weeks.
Everybody was like, yeah, youshould.
I mean you work from home,you're not gonna have to drive.
You know, as long as you canreach your keyboard comfortably,
(03:04):
you know I have a standing desk, it'll be fine.
I was not so fine, but it wasactually a really good time
because this company, q1,actually starts in August.
So it was like a part of theyear where that's when people
take vacations, that's whensales kickoff is our entire
sales team, you know, goes toVegas take vacations.
(03:25):
That's when sales kickoff isour entire sales team, you know,
goes to Vegas.
And so it was actually a reallygood time for me to take
another week and I was likenobody's gonna miss me.
Nothing really is happeningthat I need to be a part of.
So I ended up taking anotherweek.
So I took three weeks and Ithink maybe two days of of leave
for my shoulder surgery, ofleave for my shoulder surgery.
Now the technology that I wasbrought in to help manage I
(03:55):
could start.
I was seeing the writing on thewall Like I knew that this
technology was not going to likestand the test of time, and so
my role actually startedpivoting into rolling out an AI
pilot for the sales team.
It was a really excitingproject, lots of great potential
.
I was happy to make the pivot.
I went into more of a projectmanagement type role and from
(04:16):
there I started realizing that Ifelt like I was a floater.
I felt like, oh, we need thisproject done, let's tap Jessica
to do it.
Oh, we need to roll out this.
Let's get Jessica to do it.
Oh, we need a new deck for this.
Let's get Jessica to do it, andso.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I just want to pause there for a second because it's
very interesting, because theway that I viewed it was like
you're kind of like a Swiss Armyknife, which means that you can
do a lot of things, however,which you would think normally
is a good thing, but maybesometimes in corporate America,
being the Swiss Army knife isnot necessarily a good thing.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, and I do think it's good to bring a variety of
talents and flexibility to yourroles, right, because I mean,
who knows, this could haveafforded me maybe an extra year,
right, like I had to let myactual project manager go in
another mass layoff a year ago,right?
So, yes and no, I think itdepends on you know what kind of
(05:10):
role you're in and the abilityto Swiss army knife but not
actually be the Swiss army knife.
Right.
I think that, being the Swissarmy knife, where it's like,
well, what is she actually doing?
What is she spending her timedoing?
And then it's these random likewell, she helped do this and
she helped do that and she ledthis and she rolled out that,
and I don't know.
I mean, maybe you know, maybeit's in my head, but the point
(05:31):
is I kind of started seeing thewriting on the wall.
So I was ready for a pivot andso before I went out for medical
leave, I actually wasinterviewing For medical leave.
I actually was interviewinginternally for a different role
ended up getting.
That role was on a completelydifferent team, was in a
completely different sector ofthe business.
(05:53):
I was really excited about it.
The director for that unit thatwould have been who I would
have been reporting into hadspent 10 years at Google.
Who I would have been reportinginto had spent 10 years at
Google.
Like she was sharp and I wasreally excited to learn from her
was able to negotiate a 10%raise, which internally, you
know, is a large amount of money, and that was a whole thing in
(06:16):
itself and so I was reallyexcited.
I was getting ready to tell mymanager that I was accepting
this new role and then therecruiter called and said, hey,
they are going to wait to likehave you sign anything until
after the earnings call.
And if you work for a publiccompany, you know that that is
not a good sign, like if you'reputting anything on pause
(06:39):
because of the earnings call,it's already dead in the water.
And so I looked at Brandon andI was like they're going to wait
until after earnings.
This is not good.
I ended up going out on medleave.
You know this new team alreadyknew about all of that.
And, of course, you know, a fewweeks later, after the earnings
call and the dust had settled,you know they ended up saying,
(07:01):
hey, we are closing thisrequisition.
So I went from I'm reallyexcited about this new role,
this pay bump, you know,learning something new, not
being the quote unquote Swissarmy knife of my team to you
know, the disappointment of,okay, now this role no longer
exists Fast forward.
So this is all kind of in themonth of August, fast forward to
(07:24):
September 16.
My manager put a Monday morningmeeting on my calendar, which
is not uncommon.
Monday was was always our dayfor our one on ones, but she
moved it up in the day again,didn't think of it.
We always keep a very flexibleschedule didn't think anything
of it.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
By 915 mean I was telling brandon like hey, I was
just impacted, I, I was let goyeah, because I remember,
because I was at the gym and shetexted me hey, this is what
happened, finish your workout,you don't need to come home.
But of course I wasn't going tostay there and finish my
(08:03):
workout because I wasn't evenright headspace then, so I
obviously had to come home.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Well, and I was like what are we going to talk about?
Like there's so much that Istill need to wait on Right.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It was more from a support standpoint also.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well, of course, and I appreciated that, but for me
it was I had given that speech,right, hey, how was your weekend
?
You know, I was going intothings, business as usual, and
my manager went straight intothe HR speech and I was like, oh
, this is what we're doing.
(08:32):
And you know, this is a managerthat I've worked with at a past
company, that I've learned aton from that I really respect
as a leader, and especially as aleader for women.
Like she is the person who goesto bat for women, you know,
helps you negotiate, wants youto get everything that you can,
(08:53):
you know, when you'renegotiating.
So this was nothing.
I never felt like this was apersonal attack on me.
I could see that she wasuncomfortable delivering this HR
speech and I just remember,because there's nothing you can
do at that point.
Technically, you can, I guess,contest it or put in for like a
(09:17):
what is it called?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Where you dispute their decision.
But it's just not going to goin your favor, like the, to
spend the time and energy andeffort to do that with a fortune
100 company, like, if you've ifyou've ever done that and it
was successful, let me know,we'd love to have you on the pod
For me.
And where my headspace was, Iwas like, nah, we're not going
down the route.
So I let her do her speech, shelet me, you know, know what I
(09:44):
was, what I was going to beexpecting as far as paperwork
and you know when.
I would hear more about myseverance and things like that.
But what's really nice, andwhich again is a privilege, is
that they essentially put you ongarden leave, and I didn't
realize that garden leave is aterm, but it's when a company
lets you go but you still have Xamount of time to receive your
(10:10):
pay, your benefits, et cetera,but you're not expected to work.
So from September 16th untilNovember 15th, I was technically
employed, I was receiving mypaycheck, I was receiving
healthcare benefits, all of that, but I was not expected to do
anything right Like.
I cleared my calendar, declinedevery meeting invite and my job
(10:31):
was either to look for a jobinternally or to look for one
externally.
And so Brandon and I, you know,of course, we kind of sat with
the information but we basicallydecided, like, do I look for
things internal or do I look forthings external?
And because I had alreadygotten that new role and then it
was kind of taken away and Ididn't really see anything
(10:53):
internal that it was like reallysparking my interest, I said,
you know what, let's take thisseverance, put it into our high
yield savings, you know, keep itas a cushion for later and move
forward with external roles.
So have you been listening toour podcast and wondering how am
(11:13):
I really doing with my money?
Am I doing the right thingswith my investments?
Am I on track to reach myfinancial goals?
What could I be doing better?
If you answered yes to any ofthese questions, then it's time
for you to reach out to Brandonto schedule your free yes, I
said free 30-minute introductionconversation to see how his
(11:33):
services could help make you themore confident moneymaker we
know you could be.
What are you waiting for?
It's literally free and at thevery least, you'll walk away
feeling more empowered andconfident about your financial
future.
Link is in our show notes Goschedule your call today.
That's the backstory.
(11:54):
I wanted to make sure thateverybody understood, like, how
this happened, so I never tookit personal.
You know, I never even criedabout it and like yeah, I was
actually very surprised, I thinkyou were waiting for me.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I was very surprised when I got home how calm you
were and it wasn't like I wasfreaking out in the sense of oh
no, what are we going to do, youknow?
From that standpoint it wasmore or less like I felt bad for
you because I knew how hard youwork and so.
But you took it I mean a lotbetter than I thought you would
have.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Well, and I was.
You know, if I needed to cry orif I needed to have that moment
of, like, rage ordisappointment, or just, you
know, let my feelings feel, Iwould have done that.
This was not me holding back orlimiting myself in my having
feelings, I just was sodisconnected from like 6000 plus
(12:47):
other people were laid offright, like this wasn't one of
those scenarios where I waspicked and picked on or I was in
this bad situation, or like itliterally was a business
decision and you know, theyde-invest to reinvest, and like
I had been there for three yearsand it happened twice a year.
(13:08):
Every year, I mean they werestill doing layoffs in Europe
because of legalities, from thespring going into the second
layoff, you know, in September,and so I just didn't take it
personal.
I also knew that kind ofwallowing.
You know, if you're going towallow, wallow for X amount of
time, give yourself a weekend,give yourself three days, give
(13:30):
yourself a week.
Do not let yourself go past acertain date because you're not
going to be productive.
So I never had that moment, butI will say I just kind of sat
with the information for abouttwo weeks and again I had a six
month severance coming my wayright.
So I had time and I really do,especially now, understand you
(13:51):
were still healing from shouldersurgery as well.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I was healing.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I was doing PT PT twice a week, like there was a
lot going on, and so I just Itook two weeks to just kind of
be.
You know, I like I was like man, okay, like I don't normally
watch TV, I guess I can watchsome Netflix during the day,
like that's kind of cool.
And you know, I did my PT andlike I met up with friends for
lunch and I really did.
(14:14):
I really did just take twoweeks to just kind of exist and
it was nice.
So I would suggest, you know,sit with your feelings and again
, we've done this episode before, but now I'm really speaking
from a place of experience Justsit with your feelings, let them
process, let them simmer.
You might not feel anything thefirst day, you might feel
everything on the fifth day.
(14:35):
I don't know.
That's going to be up to youand your body.
But just be, don't jump intolike all right, let me do my
resume, let me do my linkedin,let me like just be yeah,
whatever feelings you have,don't suppress them and push
them down like right feel thefeelings feel the feel but then
get past it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Once I was ready to like talkabout it, what I realized is I
(15:05):
needed to help people.
Actually, I'm going to take astep back.
What we did after I got all ofmy paperwork is we sat down and
we looked through it.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I was about to say that.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Sorry, that is actually more important,
especially if you're getting aseverance.
I was like what are the details?
Yeah, what are the details?
You need to understand thatpackage inside and out.
You need to be marking yourcalendar for dates.
You need to be setting youralerts.
I mean, there was specificdates that certain things had to
be done.
Right, I had to sign myseparation agreement at a
certain date and time.
(15:34):
I had to, you know, move someof my stocks that they allowed
us to vest early, you know, by acertain date.
I needed to understand ourhealth insurance.
I needed to understand whichparts of my policies are
portable and do I maybe want toport them.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yes for some of our employee benefits that she had.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So that's something that Brandon and I talked about
Like oh, I have this lifeinsurance, I have this
disability policy, I have X, y,z.
Are these things that we shouldat least look into porting over
to see what is it going to cost?
Do we still have to do thehealth assessment, et cetera, et
cetera.
So I mean it was, you know, 50,60 pages of paperwork.
(16:18):
I printed it out, I had itsaved, I marked key dates.
Brandon and I had a shared noteon our phones with key dates.
Questions that kind of startedpopping up as I started sitting
with the information.
And so get organized, reallyunderstand especially again if
you have a severance reallyunderstand what is that package
and then utilize the resourcesthat are available to you.
So for all of the peopleimpacted at my company, there
(16:40):
was sessions that I could attendand a whole bank of videos to
watch and again, moresupplemental material and q&a's
and faqs and all the things, andI, you know, I started slowly
going through those to make surethat I had all of the answers
that I needed and had answers toall of the questions that I had
(17:00):
.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So some of the key things that I would point out
that once I heard that she waslaid off, that I was very
interested in findinginformation and once she got it,
we went through it in greatdetail was one how long is she
getting paid for?
You know so luckily, in thisscenario she was still
technically employed.
You know for two more months,and then you know a four month
severance from that.
Also, when it comes to aseverance package, you also got
(17:24):
to find out how is that moneygoing to be given to you?
The reason I say that is becauseso, for example, in our
scenario, just a severancepackage technically from a
timeframe would have went intofrom 2024 into 2025.
And she got the four months asa lump sum.
So you're getting more money.
Technically, we got more moneypaid for her in 2024 than she
(17:44):
normally would have made by work, by working there, if she had
still stayed employed.
So, to think about it from atax standpoint, if there's going
to be any issues with that nowalso, the biggest thing is
health care.
How is that being taken care of?
So, luckily, you know as herbeing employed, for the two
months that she was there had aregular health care still, but
once she was through the end ofnovember, even though my last
(18:04):
day was november 15th yeah, so,technically, when you know, her
severance date happened and weno longer had insurance through
there, what was going to beavailable to us?
so, luckily, in this scenario,we had access to cobra and they
gave her an additional lump sumof money to pay for the cobra
right because normally in thatscenario you have to think, hey,
am I going to take cobra?
and I can tell you right nowthat most people.
(18:25):
It's extremely expensivebecause your company is no
longer subsidizing the healthcare they're providing you, so
you're paying the entire amountyourself.
So normally all their onlyother alternative is looking to
the healthcare market to see ifyou can get a plan there.
Or maybe if you have you know,luckily two spouses that have
access to healthcare throughtheir employer, you might have
(18:46):
to actually put everyone on theother person's healthcare plan,
because at that time you wouldbe able to do that, even though
it's not annual enrollment,because you've had one of the
qualifying scenarios happenwhere you can make changes to
your health care, your healthinsurance and just for
transparency, as a family offour to continue our health care
benefits we are paying almost$2,700 a month.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So we had to pay that for December.
My new employer is going topick up my insurance starting in
February, so for the month ofJanuary we had to do COBRA as
well.
So I mean you know you'relooking at over $5,000 for two
months of insurance.
That's not a little bit ofmoney.
And again, thankfully that waspart of my severance package to
(19:28):
pay for that.
So especially, you know we wentto Panama for Christmas in 2024
.
Not that we would ever beuninsured, but we were looking
at can we get some sort of aplan that just kind of keeps us
afloat, you know, in case ofemergencies?
But I was still going to PT andyou know, as soon as you make a
change to your insurance,something happens with the kids
(19:51):
and so we said let's just keepour continuation of our benefits
and let's do COBRA.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And because it was essentially paid for but one
other thing, too, that you know,especially if you're working in
the tech space that you want tobe aware of, is how are any
RSUs that you may have beengiven?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Restricted stock units.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yes, restricted stock units, yes, restricted stock
units for those individuals whodidn't know what that means.
But how are those gonna bedistributed to you?
So, for example, often you arebasically given a certain amount
at a given time but they haveto vest.
So you have them but you don'thave them.
And luckily, in just a scenario, they expedited some of the
(20:34):
ones that normally would nothave vested in time for her to
have them when she was separated, but that was part of her
severance package for them to upthe date on some of those.
So that helped, you know,provide a little bit of
additional money that shereceived from those RSUs.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, which was really nice.
I mean I left a ton on thetable.
They call them golden handcuffsfor a reason, but you know we
started cashing them out forvarious things in the past once
they vested, and so you know, ifyou have access to RSUs or you
can negotiate them upon entry toa new company, absolutely do
that, because you know it's niceto have them.
(21:10):
So it's pretty standard in thetech space, once you get to a
certain level in your career, tobe able to access those.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, the big thing that we want to focus on here is
that once you know that you'vebeen laid off and you understand
your severance package, youwant to also adjust your budget
accordingly to make sure thatone all your expenses that are
necessities are covered and thatyou don't obviously run out of
money prior to getting a new job.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, and our goal really was to not use as much of
the severance as possible,because we really just did want
to put it back into savings andkind of pad that back up.
I don't plan on leaving techanytime soon, and tech is a
volatile space and so having astrong emergency fund is always
a top priority for us, and so wedidn't want to, you know, get
(21:58):
this large check and be like woo, we're ready to party Like no
that was not the case.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, cause like the idea is that technically she has
um, still money from herseverance for the month of
January and February, but shestarted a new job and so
hopefully the idea with that wasit's it was two months worth of
income that we don't need touse.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, but going into, you know, analyzing the budget,
of course we looked at ournumbers, we looked at
subscriptions what can we cutjust to give us a little bit
more of a buffer?
And we ended up really onlycutting one thing, which is my
subscription, or, I guess,membership to like a massage,
(22:38):
like a monthly massage or facial, that I pay a membership for.
I actually ended up putting iton hold.
I called them and I wastransparent and I said, hey,
I've been let go.
Is there anything that you cando for my membership?
Typically they will do a onemonth hold and since I just came
off of surgery and I wasn'treally getting massages because
(23:00):
I couldn't lay in a certain way,they actually were able to do
two months and then they delayedcharging my card once it
re-upped, and so that really gotme back into January again,
which is really nice.
So as far as like TVsubscriptions and things, we
either get them, you know, freethrough our credit cards or
(23:21):
through the phone plan, etc.
Etc.
The other thing that I wasconsidering is should we cut our
housekeeper, who comes everyother week and I just know
myself, and if the house is notclean I'm not going to be
productive, and so having herand her team come every other
week to just keep things kind ofin order and keep things going
(23:44):
on the cleanliness side, I thinkwas really important, and so we
did not cut that expense.
Am I missing anything?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
No, I mean, the key point that we want to put here
is that we got the information.
We sat down together and wentthrough a plan of action of how
to get through this time frameuntil she found employment again
.
Right, and that's the big thingis that we talk through
everything.
Once again, it's scheduling thetime.
Obviously, we have the time andmaking a plan and sticking to
(24:18):
that plan.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, yeah.
We just needed to have opencommunication, and I'm pretty
sure I even said in that meetinglike, hey, do we get rid of
housekeeping?
I know that if the house is notclean, that's not going to help
me find a job, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
So and the thing is, too, is's not going to help me
find a job.
You know so.
And the thing is, too, is that,even though you make a plan in
place, you know as like, let'ssay hypothetically, we were
getting to middle of January andshe still hadn't found
employment.
So we have a month and a halfleft or you know, we get to the
beginning of February andnothing has happened, then
obviously we would make moredrastic cuts.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's get into some of the moretactical things.
So if you've been listening tothis podcast for a while, you
know your resume should beupdated.
Like I don't care if you arethe CEO of the company, you need
to update your resume.
So my resume, of course.
Again, I had just gotten thatinternal job, so my resume was
(25:08):
up to date, ready to go.
But if you have been laid off,I mean, one of the first things
you should be doing is updatingyour resume, making sure that
all of your latest achievements,accomplishments, contributions
are there and clearly spelledout.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And also you should probably, throughout the course
of the year, set calendarreminders just to update your
resume, because there might bebig projects that you've worked
on and completed and thoseshould be things that you
highlight in your resume.
You don't want to forget aboutit.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
At the end of every quarter, do a little sweep of
your resume and think about theprojects that you've completed,
the contributions that you'vemade, the successes that you've
seen.
If you're not going to do it,you know, once a quarter, I
would say first half, secondhalf, I mean bare minimum.
You should be looking at thattwice a year.
There's just no reason not toand you forget what you're doing
(25:59):
and what results you're seeingif you're not keeping track.
So, by kind of keeping track ofwhat you're completing, putting
that on your resume, keepingsome sort of a brag sheet, have
that stuff handy because it'sgoing to be important,
especially in the event that youget laid off.
Once you have your resumecomplete, you can transfer all
(26:20):
that information onto yourLinkedIn profile.
I would not suggest actuallyuploading your resume, but those
key bullets, your skills, etc.
You know, make sure that thatis all updated on LinkedIn.
I've said it before.
Make sure you have aprofessional headshot.
This is not the time to have apicture of you, you know, at
(26:41):
your wedding in your weddingdress, like the things that I
see on LinkedIn.
I'm just like.
This is not Facebook.
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So question for you why would you not upload your
resume onto LinkedIn?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
If you're going to upload your resume on LinkedIn,
I would remove your keyinformation like your personal
email address Some people Idon't personally put my address
anymore because I was onlylooking for remote roles but you
can have your city and state.
It's really about privacy.
You know you might have yourphone number on there.
You don't want that on displayfor the world.
(27:14):
You also, as silly as it sounds, you don't want to put
everything out there because youknow people are going to beg,
borrow and steal.
So you don't want youraccomplishments from your resume
all of a sudden showing up onsomebody else's resume as well.
So you want to keep some thingskind of you know for yourself.
(27:35):
Now, the overarching, like dayto day role and responsibilities
, you know, put that into thatcareer section.
But as far as everything that'son your resume, like teed up in
a resume or a CV, I simplywouldn't upload it.
But I do see it from time totime.
Yeah, you can also on LinkedIn,make yourself open to work.
(27:58):
I ended up making myself open towork for recruiters only and I
did not end up doing the greenbanner.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with the green banner.
I know there's a lot of backand forth discussion.
There's two sides of the camp.
People are like that's sodesperate, don't do it.
And then recruiters are like no, you're literally letting us
know you're open to work, so whynot?
(28:19):
I just decided not to.
I also decided not to do thebig like hey, I've been impacted
type post.
If you're active on LinkedIn,you're probably seeing those a
lot as well.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with them, but I do think
if you're going to take the timeto do that kind of a post, you
(28:40):
need to add value and let peopleknow what is it that you're
looking for specifically.
Too many times I see posts thatare like hey, I'm looking for
my next role in projectmanagement.
If you can help me, let me know.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Very generic.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
What sector are you in?
What kind of team do you workon?
Like?
What part of project managementdo you excel in?
You know what are yoursuccesses?
Like it's so generic whereyou're really letting people
come to their own conclusion ofwhat project management is, and
I think that's a misstep that alot of people are making.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Also a little call out here is that we have the
mindset that even when you'rehappily employed I'm always open
to listening to you knowpossibility of better
opportunities.
So there is a way to, like shesaid, let recruiters know that
you are open to employmentwithout quote unquote being out
there publicly where, like say,your current employer can see it
.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Right, that's a great call out.
I think you have to get reallyclear on what you're looking for
.
So that reflection component wetalked about it in the last
episode you have to reallyunderstand like what are you?
What are you really wanting toget out of this next role?
Right, it could be.
Do you want to be hybrid?
Do you want to be an office?
Do you want to work 100% remote?
(29:53):
Right, it could be.
Do you want to be hybrid?
Do you want to be in office?
Do you want to work 100% remote?
Do you want opportunity totravel?
Do you want to lead a team?
You know, do you value a higherbase salary over?
You know, maybe PTO, likewhatever it is that's important
to you.
Get crystal clear on that,because as you start telling
people that you're interested inXYZ opportunity, they're going
to ask like oh, are you okaywith coming in the office three
(30:15):
days a week Because we'verecently changed our in-office
policy, right?
And if you are like, yeah, Iguess I'm telling you right now
I'm not going in the officethree days a week.
Now, if I need to travel and beon site and go into the office,
happy to do that.
Otherwise, on a regular Mondaythrough Friday.
I don't need to be sitting intraffic for two hours a day to
be in someone's office.
(30:36):
That is where I am in mycurrent life right now and where
my boundaries are, and I madethat very clear to people.
And you have to really read thefine line to the fine print,
because there's a lot of jobsout there now that are touting
themselves as remote and thenwhen you get into that fine
print or you speak to therecruiter, they're like well, we
(30:57):
actually have a hub, so-and-so.
So if there's a hub within 50miles, then you're expected to
be in the office, you know, twoor three days a week.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
AKA, not remote.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
So there was a lot of that nonsense that was
happening.
Same thing with salaryexpectations, right?
Do you know your numbers?
Of course, everybody wants toincrease their salary year over
year, especially if you'rechanging companies.
You're changing maybe industrysector, et cetera.
Nobody's trying to go backwardsin their salary.
But what else is important toyou?
(31:30):
Maybe it's an education stipend, maybe you can get a severance
built in.
Maybe there's a RSUs.
Maybe there's RSUs, maybethere's a conference or two that
you've been really wanting togo to that you haven't been able
to go to in the past.
Have a list of things, asidefrom your base salary, that are
really important to you, becausethose are all things that you
can eventually negotiate, areall things that you can
(31:52):
eventually negotiate.
What I will say is there wereseveral you know jobs that I was
able to interview for, met withrecruiters and the you know the
salary was x.
And then by the time you say,oh well, I'm located in North
Carolina, and they go, oh well,in that case, the salary is this
and it's 40 or $60,000 lowerthan what was advertised.
(32:12):
This and it's 40 or $60,000lower than what was advertised.
Like that's reallydisappointing.
So just also know that a lot ofthese salaries are really
enticing and they're for the SanFrancisco Bay area or they're
for the New York you know office.
They're not for your office inMilwaukee.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Also, too.
One thing that we actually didtogether is we talked through
these things together.
Also, too.
One thing that we actually didtogether is we talked through
these things together.
So, you know, having someoneyou know to be your sounding
board in regards to talkingthrough these, to get very clear
on what it is you enjoyed about, you know the role that you
were let go from and what weresome of the things that you
didn't enjoy, so that whenyou're going to looking for your
new role, you are very clearand specific about what it is
(32:52):
you want to do and the thingsthat, like Jess has said, things
that just aren't up fornegotiation, they're not an
option for you.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right and you know, realizing that what maybe is not
an option in your first monthto three months of job searching
might later need to become anoption, but at the beginning
certainly hold firm to.
You know what you know is goingto make your work-life balance
what you want and need it to beright, because you still need to
(33:20):
show up every day once you gethired and that was also a good
call out.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
There is that you know, if you're taking a little
bit longer to find something,then things might pivot.
Because early on Jess got someoffers.
They just weren't in line withwhat she was looking for and
thankfully we're in a scenariowhere she didn't just have to
take the first thing that camealong.
She could be very intentionalabout what her next move was
going to be, but she definitelyturned down a couple offers that
(33:45):
just didn't align.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah that.
And going on in the interviewprocess, right After you've
spoken to the recruiter, maybeeven the hiring manager, or
maybe you've been on a panelthis is your time to remember
that you were interviewing themas well.
So if something feels off,you're like there's something
(34:07):
about this hiring manager thatdoesn't feel right, or I don't
know if this team culture isgoing to be a fit for me.
Like in some cases, you justneed to go with your gut and say
thanks but no thanks.
I really appreciate thisopportunity.
I'm going to remove myself fromthe candidacy pool, right,
because you don't want to wastetheir time.
But, even more important, youdon't want to waste your time,
(34:29):
especially when finding a joband interviewing and preparing
for those interviews.
Those are full-time jobs inthemselves, so you don't have
time to waste.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
And also, too, as far as for the interviews that you
may have, that ultimately thejob just isn't alignment for you
and maybe they wanted to offerit to you.
You don't want to burn bridgesbecause these might be companies
down the line that have otheropportunities open and be like
hey, I remember interviewingso-and-so.
They were really great.
Unfortunately, we didn't haveenough money to pay for the role
, but this other role that wejust opened up is perfect for
them.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, and that's what I would say.
I would say you know, ifthere's more senior roles that
come available down the line, Ihope you.
You know, keep me in mind,let's connect on LinkedIn, stay
in touch.
And everybody was like yeah.
And everybody was like, yeah,that sounds great, Absolutely.
I had a lot of interviews, too,where the recruiters would
start with hey, let's talk aboutyour salary expectations
because, based on yourbackground and experience, I
(35:21):
don't think we're going to align.
Aka they knew that I was pricedout from whatever their role
was, which I appreciated.
So some of the phone screensessentially that I had were
under 15 minutes because, listen, we don't show up to volunteer,
we show up to get paid.
Right, I will do a great job,but you will pay me for it, and
(35:42):
so if there's not alignmentthere, then there's nothing else
to talk about.
Let's stay in touch.
Let me know if there'ssomething more senior coming up.
Thanks, but no thanks.
I wish you the best in findingthe right candidate, Right, so
just don't waste your time.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
And I would say that's another call out for
people that you know were theelder millennials.
So we're a few, you know,several years into our careers.
You can ask what the salary isgoing to be If someone's not
willing to tell you what thesalary is going to be beforehand
.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I'm not working there , that's right.
I don't need to waste my time,nor your time.
If the money is nowhere nearwhat I'm looking for, yeah, 100%
.
One other thing you knowtalking about interviewing and
applying and prepping for theseinterviews it's all the job, and
so one thing that I think isreally important is to have a
mindset of how many jobs do youwant to apply for every day.
I will say we are out of thewindow of like I applied for
five jobs and I, you know, gotto two out of four offers.
(36:34):
Like it's just not happening.
There's too many talentedpeople in the job market and
mentally I was like, all right,it's gonna take me six to eight
months to find what I'm lookingfor.
But I would say keep a scheduleright.
Like it's really easy to be.
Like oh Netflix, like what'sgood, what's popping.
You need a schedule.
(36:55):
I'm going to be at my desk bynine.
I'm going to work until youknow 1130, I'm going to take a
break.
I'm going to go to the gym,whatever it is.
Have a schedule of when you'regoing to be applying, when
you're going to be reaching outto recruiters on LinkedIn, when
you're going to be sendingemails.
You know you need to have somesort of structure around your
(37:15):
daily activity, and I do meandaily, because you need to be
applying for jobs every singleday.
My goal was to apply to 15 to 20jobs a day.
Some of them were, you know,directly on the portal.
Some of them were quick applyon LinkedIn.
Some applications took twominutes.
Other applications took 20minutes or you know longer.
(37:39):
Some of them have littlebuilt-in assessments.
I mean, all sorts of things arehappening.
You need to have a schedule inplace and you need to make sure
that you are allotting dedicatedtime to this job search, the
interview process, prepping forthe interview, maybe doing some
mock interviews, you know, withfriends, family, your spouse,
etc.
(37:59):
To make sure you get any ofthose jitters out.
Especially if you haven't beenin the job search for a while,
you know it can feel a littlescary and intimidating.
So having the right prep forthese interviews is really
important.
I look like you were gonna saysomething.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay, I did write down in my notes to get your
mind right, to interview Y'all.
There's a lot of nonsensehappening out there.
You know, overall, I would saymy experience was really good.
I was blessed I'm blessed witha really great network of people
.
People were very willing to putme through their referral
(38:40):
portals.
I asked people forrecommendations on LinkedIn and
got them.
No problem.
Talk about giving yourself alittle ego boost, like ask
people to write you arecommendation on LinkedIn and
then them.
No problem.
Talk about giving yourself alittle ego boost, like ask
people to write you arecommendation on LinkedIn and
then see what they wrote.
I mean, oh my gosh, it was sohumbling, it was so great to see
(39:01):
that so many people you knowgenuinely were like Jessica's a
rock star, we love working withher, et cetera.
So you know, that's somethingthat you could probably
incorporate throughout the yearas well, and not do it like I
did, which is wait until you getfired.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Well, the thing is, I do want to call out here
because one you made it veryeasy for people to make
recommendations for you and alsoto pass you through the job
referral, because you gave thema very clear picture of what it
is you were looking for.
I'm going to get to that, okay,yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
I'm going to get to that.
Um, okay, let's.
Let's go into what Brandon'stalking about.
So you know that we're veryfirm on like your network is how
you get work.
So you should always benetworking, connecting with
people, going to networkingevents, going to conferences
when you can, you know, andbeing intentional.
If you meet somebody new, like,hey, let me get your LinkedIn
(39:51):
and like, connect and send thema message hey, it was great
meeting you at so and so event.
That way, a year from now, whenthey are posting a job, you can
at least go back to thatmessage to say, oh, I met them
at so and so conference.
Or I met them at thisnetworking event.
Like, let me jog their memory.
You know, hey, we met at thisevent back in da da, da, da da.
I saw you posted this.
(40:11):
Can you tell me a little bitmore about the role right, like
so, make those connections begenuine, but also just follow up
so that you have that referenceof how you met that person.
What I did after I, you know,took my two weeks of just like
me time is I had a coupleconversations with friends and
people in my network and somementors to talk about.
(40:33):
You know what is it that I'mlooking for?
And that really helped me breakdown.
You know my kind of my musthaves, my nice to haves, my need
to haves, you know all of thosethings that were really
important to me in this role.
And so what I ended up doing isI ended up kind of putting
together an email that I sentout to friends, family, people
(40:54):
in my network.
I sent it to people on LinkedIn, not like an email blast on
LinkedIn, but like people who Iknow are well connected, are
posting jobs, etc.
And I was hyper specific onwhat I was looking for.
So I'm actually going to readan excerpt of what I sent.
So just know, I started withlike I'm writing to let you know
(41:17):
that I was part of the 7000people who were recently laid
off.
Although I understand this was abusiness decision and necessary
pivot into different growthareas, no one wants to be on the
other side of that call.
So I kind of did like a littlebackground of like hey, here's
what happened.
This was not performance based.
This was not, you know, jessica, getting a slap on the wrist.
You did something wrong, like Iwas part of a mass layoff,
(41:38):
right?
I thank the people who havealready asked how they can help.
I said you know, if we're notalready connected on LinkedIn,
please connect.
And I linked my LinkedIn andthen I said, if you'd like to
help me find my next role, I amnarrowing my job search into
these areas.
So here's the thing, and I'mgoing to pivot just a second,
because too many times we, aspeople, we say, oh, I'm in tech
(42:03):
or oh, I'm in project managementor oh, I'm in, you know,
consulting.
The reality is is nobody knowswhat that means.
Nobody knows what you do allday.
Like my closest friends cannotgive a description of what I do
all day.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Your husband couldn't .
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Right, Like half the time he's like oh, I was talking
to so-and-so and they askedwhat you did and I was like uh,
sales, and I'm like I did not.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
No, I know you don't do sales, Come on now.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
But I do say like hey , you could probably get a
better idea by talking to Jess,right?
So, like people don't know whatyou do, you say project
management and I say projectmanagement, it means literally a
completely different thing,right?
So you have to paint thepicture for people and get
really clear on.
What does that mean?
What are you good at?
What do you do during the day?
(42:49):
What industries and sectors areyou focused on?
What kind of people do you liketo work with?
What kind of team structure doyou want?
Like, give them you're gonnaword vomit all of this.
You need to give them thedetails so that when they see in
their job board or in theirSlack community this job pop up,
they'll say, oh, I rememberJessica said XYZ, okay, so I
(43:13):
would just wanted to kind of teethat up.
So here's what I said.
If you'd like to help me find mynext role, I am narrowing my
job search into these areasIndustries, in order, technology
, with a focus on SaaS, andservices, healthcare and
education.
I am open to other industries,but this is where my most recent
experiences are and I feel mostconfident Experience level,
senior manager and up Y'all.
(43:34):
I am not early in career, I amnot 22.
Do not send me job descriptionsfor something that is asking
for one to three years ofexperience.
That is not me and it's notgoing to be the salary that I'm
looking for.
Again, you have to be hyperdetailed when you're letting
people know what level of careertitle are you looking for.
(43:55):
So I said senior manager and up, either as an individual
contributor or leading a team.
Work locations remote.
I'm currently in a global roleand happy to continue with that
or focus solely on the Americas.
Travel when needed is totallyfine.
Work functions.
I am focusing on program andproject management, sales
(44:16):
enablement and sales tooling,digital transformation, change
management strategy and planningrevenue operations.
And then I said I excel inproblem solving and thinking
outside of the box, removingbottlenecks and building out
processes and operating modelsthat make life easier, engaging
stakeholders and buildingchampions to help roll out big
company initiatives, leadinghigh growth teams that crush
(44:38):
goals, rolling out programs atscale and creating content that
converts readers into customers.
I am eager to find a companythat puts its people first, has
great work-life balance andawesome benefits.
I would love to work for a teamthat is actively working on
building out a great program orprocess where I can truly come
in and leave my mark.
If you know of people in yournetwork that have open or coming
(45:01):
soon positions in the areasabove and are open to helping me
finding a new role through yourreferral program or portal, I
will gladly welcome a warmintroduction or the assist.
And then I closed with you know.
Thank you so much, and Iattached my resume as well.
Again, these are people I knowpersonally.
This was a personal emailcoming from me to my friends,
people in my family.
You know people in my network.
(45:22):
So again, I painted the pictureof like here's what I like,
here's what I'm good at buildingout processes, models,
frameworks etc.
I can't just go and say, hey,I'm, you know, in project, in
program management.
People don't know what thatmeans.
Spell it out for them, gethyper focused.
And if it takes you a week ortwo or three to figure out well,
(45:45):
what am I looking for, that'sokay.
It's better to take the timeyou need to get hyper-focused,
like I did, than to just put ablanket message out on LinkedIn
that says, hey, I'm looking formy next role.
Any help is appreciated.
What?
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And in those scenarios most people want to
help you, but you didn't givethem any guidance on how to help
you, so then they can't thinkof you.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
They can't think of you when they see something in
their network or at theircompany, because they have no
idea what it is.
You do what you like, whatyou're good at, what you've done
in the past.
Like you did not paint thepicture, so you have to paint
the picture for people.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
And one thing I would say one of the reasons why,
when we got the news about justbeing laid off, that, why when
we got the news about just beinglaid off, that, obviously
you're you know you have aslight worry in the sense of
that's everybody does.
But why I wasn't like extremelyworried is because one I know
how awesome of you know her workethic is and what she brings to
the table for any employer, butthen also I know that she's
(46:42):
always networking.
She is always networking andit's just her superpower, it's
second nature to and I was likeyou're going to find something
soon because you're alwayshaving these conversations with
people.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
And I will say my network is how I got work Right.
And you have to have a sense ofvulnerability too.
I message people you know thatI hadn't connected with in a
while, or people that I'm verywell connected with, and I said,
hey, I've been impacted.
Here's what I'm looking for.
Can you help?
Or I saw you're connected tothis person.
(47:14):
Can you make an introduction?
Can you send me an email?
Can you send me the link toyour internal referral portal?
Like, you have to ask for whatyou want.
People are very well intentioned, people are very open to
helping you, but you have tomake it easy for them right?
Like, don't make the peopleyou're asking for help do the
work.
Tee up your bio, tee up alittle email snippet that they
(47:36):
can quickly cut and paste to thehiring manager or to the
recruiter.
One thing that I did is I wentand applied to several jobs at
larger companies and then I wentback to my contacts there and I
said, hey, I just applied forthis role.
Here's the requisition link andthe requisition number.
Any chance you know the hiringmanager.
(47:56):
And even in the event wherethey were like yeah, I have no
idea who that is, but I'm happyto reach out on your behalf.
That's great, because now myapplication is already in the
portal and now they're getting atap from somebody internal
saying, hey, just wanted to flagthis resume, wanted to flag
this name for you, so and so isawesome.
You know, we'd be happy to haveher at X company.
(48:17):
If you've already applied,that's OK.
There's other ways to get infront of the recruiters and the
hiring managers, so I could talkabout this all day.
We wanted to give you a littleglimpse into, like, what we've
been going through and how wehandled this.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yes, I do have one more small detail.
What we found out was is thatonce you got set, once you got
let go, one of the things wewent to go look and do is hey,
is she eligible for unemployment?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Which I've never filed before in my entire life.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
And also too, if you are eligible for unemployment
which I've never filed before inmy entire life and also too, if
you are eligible forunemployment, take it because
you are paying into it.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, we've had friends in the past who are like
no, we can leave that money forother people who truly need it.
That is not how the systemworks.
If you are eligible forunemployment, even if you only
use it for a week or two, goahead and apply.
But what Brandon was about tosay is I was not eligible
because my severance was goingto take me into, you know, q1 of
(49:13):
2025 yes, so if you have aseverance, then you are not
eligible for until yourseverance is yeah, so your
severance ends.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
You are not eligible for unemployment yes, but you
know again, it was somethingthat we learned in the process
and yeah, but we just wanted todouble check yeah, absolutely so
.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
If you have a severance, you know, wait until
that severance is over to applyum, but if you don't have a
severance, absolutely apply forunemployment immediately.
You've been paying into thatsystem.
The money is yours.
You're not taking it from a potthat doesn't, you know, belong
to you.
(49:48):
Don't have those feelings, yeah.
If you have any questions aboutwhat else I went through?
Want a copy of you know theemail that I sent or whatever.
Like, just reach out, it's,it's a.
It's tough out there, it reallyis.
You know, you're probably goingto have to stock some of the
recruiters.
People do not follow up.
(50:09):
People don't send calendarinvites that they said they were
going to send.
They don't send benefit packageinformation that they said they
were going to send.
They don't call you.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
You ran into some really interesting recruiters
were like this is your job, it'sliterally your job and you're
so bad at it.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
I don't understand.
I'm like how do people keepthose jobs?
Because?
Speaker 2 (50:33):
this is literally your job and I'm following up
Because, as a recruiter, you getadditional pay for putting
people into these roles, so whywould you not be on top of
sending information that yousaid you were going to send?
Speaker 1 (50:43):
It's weird.
Shout out to the greatrecruiters out there, because
they will literally make all thedifference.
Shout out to the greatrecruiters out there, because
they will literally make all thedifference.
I will also say I'veinterviewed with companies where
the process was just fallingapart at every turn.
And that's a turnoff too,because you're like, oh, if you
can't get it right in therecruiting process, is this what
I'm signing up for for my dayto day?
(51:04):
Because I don't think I'minterested in that either.
My day to day, because I don'tthink I'm interested in that
either.
So you know, in some of thesesituations I just had to go with
my gut and say thanks, but nothanks.
Let's stay in touch, but it's ano for now.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
But just again we were very fortunate in those
scenarios where you didn't haveto just accept something to.
You know have money coming in.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yes, absolutely, coming from a place of privilege
privilege, but just that to say.
You have to get your mind rightbecause there's a lot of
nonsense happening out there.
It doesn't matter how qualifiedyou are, how much experience
you have, you're going to runinto some things we didn't even
get into the assessments.
There's a lot of assessments,y'all.
(51:45):
You're going to be spendingtime putting together decks and
plans and roadmaps and, you know, I would suggest again, if
you're not 100% or 90% reallyreally excited about that job or
that company or that team,don't take the time to do the
assessments, especially if it'sputting stuff together right
(52:07):
where you're like practicallyhanding over, like here's how I
would handle the first sixmonths of right.
Where you're like practicallyhanding over, like here's how I
would handle the first sixmonths of this role, and you're
like giving them a blueprint toyour IP.
No, thanks, not doing that.
So if you have any questions,honestly send me an email, leave
us, you know, shoot us a DM onInstagram.
I'm happy to answer any ofthese questions, give advice.
(52:30):
You know, I'm certainly not acareers expert, but I do think I
do a lot of things well and youknow, I am starting my new job
with a company I'm super excitedabout on Monday.
So happy January to me, allright.
Hopefully this was helpful.
(52:51):
Y'all go get those jobs, gokeep those jobs.
Make that bag, make that money.
Honey, we'll talk to you soon,don't forget.
Benjamin Franklin said aninvestment in knowledge pays the
best interest.
You just got paid Until nexttime.
(53:16):
Thanks for listening to today'sepisode.
We are so glad to have you aspart of our Sugar Daddy
community.
If you learned something today,please remember to subscribe,
rate, review and share thisepisode with your friends.
Please remember to subscribe,rate, review and share this
episode with your friends,family and extended network.
Don't forget to connect with uson social media at the sugar
daddy podcast.
You can also email us yourquestions you want us to answer
(53:38):
for our past the sugar segmentsat the sugar daddy podcast at
gmailcom, or leave us avoicemail through our Instagram.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
Our content is intended to be used, and must be
used, for informationalpurposes only.
It is very important to be usedand must be used for
informational purposes only.
It is very important to do yourown analysis before making any
investment, based upon your ownpersonal circumstances.
You should take independentfinancial advice from a licensed
professional in connection with, or independently research and
verify any information you findin our podcast and wish to rely
upon, whether for the purpose ofmaking an investment decision
or otherwise.
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