May 21, 2025 • 34 mins
May is Mental Health Awareness Month—and Jess and Brandon are talking about one of the biggest, most ignored triggers of anxiety and depression: money stress. Financial pressure doesn’t just hurt your bank account—it hijacks your sleep, your self-worth, and your ability to think clearly.
In this episode, they unpack the debt-stress spiral, why even high earners aren’t immune, and how shame keeps so many people silently suffering. If you’ve ever avoided your account balance or felt like you’re failing at “adulting,” this one’s for you.
Money problems aren’t a character flaw—and support is available. Let’s talk about what healing actually looks like.
Visit prenups.com/sugardaddy to learn more about fair prenups that help couples plan for a healthy financial relationship.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:44):
They do postnuptial agreementstoo.
That's what Brandon and I didafter eight years of marriage.
Today's episode is for anyonefeeling overwhelmed by debt,
struggling with money shame andcraving a judgment-free
conversation about how financialpressure affects our mental
health.
We are going to explore atwo-way relationship between
debt and depression andchallenge the shame that keeps
people financially andemotionally stuck.
(01:05):
We definitely want to offer youboth a mindset shift and
actionable steps to help youstart breaking free.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, it is Mental Health Awareness Month and we're
going to be talking about themoney and the mental today.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, yes, may is Mental Health Awareness Month
and, thankfully, over the pastfew years, there definitely has
been a push for being more openand talking about mental health
struggles that you knowindividuals may be having.
And when it comes to your money, those two can definitely, you
know, intertwine.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there is a lot ofmental space that is taken up by
money problems, money shame,money guilt, money plans Really,
I mean just anything thattouches money could be very
mentally draining and exhaustingand triggering for many people.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I would definitely say that money is a
stress inducer, unfortunately,for a lot of people, and when
you don't address it properly,then it's just.
It filters into every otheraspect of your life, as far as
how you're going to interactwith your spouse, how you
interact with your kids, how youinteract with your friends, how
you interact at work.
So it is definitely somethingvery important that does need to
(02:33):
be addressed, and I don't think, when it comes to we think
about mental health in so manydifferent aspects.
I don't think we often thinkabout it in relationship to
money.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Right, even though think about it.
I mean I have friends in mycircle who you know, make a
great income, are high earners,but maybe they have student loan
debts, maybe they have moved aparent in.
You know, some people haveteenagers, but also young kids,
and then maybe even college agekids who you know they've taken
(03:03):
on their, their kids, studentloans.
That's, you know, a landscapein itself right now.
That is just, I mean, that'smentally draining, because who
can even keep up with all thedifferent like repayment plans
and all the things going on.
I mean there's just so muchthat occupies our mental space,
(03:23):
that touches money and honestlyI know it's keeping them up at
night.
And I think if you're listeningto this episode today, you're
not alone.
I think that normalizing theconversation which is why we
started the podcast in the firstplace, is the best place to
start, but also digging in andfiguring out, you know, not only
(03:45):
why do you feel the way youfeel, but how can we come out
from this?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I mean, I agree with everything you said.
I also do want to preface thatwe are not professionals within
the mental health space.
No, we are not psychiatrists,therapists, counselors none of
that none of the above we'remore or less talking about just
from our own personal experience, and then, obviously, we do
have experience within thefinancial realm area to speak on
that aspect.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, but really today's conversation is going to
be around the common debts thatmost of us have some sort of
experience.
When you're thinking aboutstudent loans, credit cards,
medical debts, lifestyle creep,I mean, I have student loans.
I had shoulder surgery lastyear.
Now Brandon tore his Achilles,so now we're dealing with that.
(04:33):
We found out was it yesterday,I think that are out of pocket
for you is $9,000.
I mean, like it's just all somuch, even when I know that
we're doing fine.
You know you could always bedoing better.
There's always we always wantto save more money.
You know we had plans for mybonus.
(04:54):
Now Brandon got hurt.
Now we're getting a tax refundwe weren't expecting, which is
such a blessing, but now we'rehaving to have the conversation
of OK, well, how, how do we makethe most strategic decision?
So even when you're in a goodplace quote, unquote, good place
with money, it still takes alot of our mental space.
It still is something that wetalk about all the time because
(05:16):
we're trying to be strategic,we're trying to be smart, we're
trying not to mess up, we'retrying to set ourselves up for
our future and plan forretirement and all the things
and I'll be honest, it keeps meup at night, you know, even if
you're thinking about miles andpoints and how to get the best
bang for your buck when it comesto your vacation and your
flights.
And it's all draining and it'sall a lot mentally.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
All right, real quick .
I want to speak to the personlistening who feels like they
can't work with a financialplanner yet because they're
carrying a lot of debt.
First of all, I see you and Ineed you to know.
You're not broken, you're notbehind, you're just in a tough
season.
I created something just foryou because I've had people
reach out who are serious aboutchanging their money story.
But the full financial planningpackage just wasn't the right
(06:05):
fit yet.
So I built a new service throughOak City Financial that's
focused completely on debtreduction no fluff, no shame.
You'll get a one-time planningsession, a personalized payoff
strategy, your own financialdashboard and monthly coaching.
If you want extra support whileyou climb out, it's $300 to get
started in, a hundred dollars amonth.
If you want that ongoingguidance, that's it.
(06:27):
This is about helping you getunstuck, not making you feel
like you failed.
If this sounds like what you'vebeen needing, go ahead and
schedule a call with me.
The link is in the show notes.
Let's take the first steptogether.
Let's take the first steptogether.
Yeah, I said that on, and thenalso you got to think about it
too.
It's on top of everything elsethat's going on in the world
(06:53):
right now, you know, especiallywith technology, we are so
inundated with so much negativeinformation on a regular basis
that sometimes I feel like it'shard to come up and breathe
because yes unfortunately.
I mean, I found myself kind ofin the same rut sometimes.
Is that with the algorithm thathappens with social media?
You want to be aware of what'sgoing on in the world and you're
looking through thatinformation.
But then also, what thenhappens is is that now that
(07:15):
information is all in youralgorithm?
So that seems?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
you can't get away from it.
You can't get away from it.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So you're trying to scroll, maybe just to like, have
some mindless entertainment,but you're still being inundated
with all that negativeinformation.
And, like I said, it's a hardbalance because, especially,
like you know, for Justin and I,as people of color, we have to
stay informed but at the sametime, staying informed can also
put you in a bad mental healthspace.
Staying informed can also putyou in a bad mental health space
(07:40):
.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, you have to set your boundaries.
I mean, a few years ago we werenot in a good place mentally.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
During the pandemic with CNN.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, we were just watching way we were consuming
way too much news.
None of it was positive, I mean, it was on all the time.
It was just not good, so we hadto set some boundaries.
I've been setting someboundaries, but I think one of
the important things to to callout is that your mental state
when it comes to your money, isnot just emotions, right, it's
(08:15):
not just I feel bad, I feelanxious.
I feel this.
I feel that it is based on yourcircumstance, and sometimes our
circumstances are self induced,and other times they are just
what they are.
They are circumstances, theyare products of your environment
.
And sometimes you know we getinto debt because we didn't have
(08:38):
a choice, and so that issomething that I think is really
important to acknowledge toothat sometimes it is just based
on our circumstance andhopefully we can change the
circumstance to get us out ofthat debt depression loop, right
where that chronic financialstress, you know, is causing not
(08:59):
only the emotional part of thatmental fatigue, but also, I
mean we know that it can lead todepression and anxiety, and you
know your cortisol levels arenot regulated, which causes a
whole other influx of problems.
I mean it really is a loop thatwe need to be aware of and that
we need to be mindful of.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, I mean it's referred to as the debt
depression loop, where you knowyou kind of get to a point where
you are in debt, so you'rehaving, you know the issues in
regards to being able to pay offdebt, whether that's student
loan, debt, credit card debt,whatever it may be but then that
being in debt kind of leads tothe feeling of being overwhelmed
, which I think most people canare familiar with.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Guilty.
I feel overwhelmed all the time.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
And then, unfortunately, what happens?
When you're overwhelmed, youstart to feel as though you
can't do anything about it.
So, therefore, you just simplyavoid the problem altogether.
And, as we've discussednumerous times before, avoiding
the problem doesn't fix aproblem.
It just simply leads to makingthe problem actually worse.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
So that's like you're letting your bills pile up,
you're not checking your mail,you're afraid to log into your
bank accounts.
You don't want to have thatconversation maybe with your
partner or spouse to say it'stime for a money meeting, we've
got to sit down and look atthese numbers.
So that's that avoidance.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And then, since you're avoiding it and the
problem is getting worse, thatleads to you feeling even more
like a quote unquote failure,because this problem is not
being fixed, it's getting worse.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And once that starts to kick in, that's when your
depression, anxiety and stuff ofthat nature starts to increase.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Well, and then on top of that, it kind of has that
snowball effect, because ifyou're not opening your bills,
you're not checking youraccounts no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So it's not just a matter of you know your mental
well-being.
It starts to affect your bodyphysically, in the sense of you
know you start to not be able tosleep.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And we know you can't .
If you are not getting propersleep, everything else is going
to fall apart.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Cause.
Normally, I can tell you, I'mthe type of person where I
normally sleep very well.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
His head hits the pillow and he's done.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And the few times in my life that I've had issues
sleeping.
It is very apparent to Jesswhen that happens, because I am
not the same person, so I canonly imagine for other people.
You know the same thing.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, as somebody myself who sleeps next to a
great sleeper, I'm here to tellyou it is enraging and
infuriating, because I'm one ofthose people.
It takes me a very long time,sometimes hours, to actually
fall asleep.
And so to be next to Brandonwho like literally his head hits
the pillow and he's snoringlike mid sentence, it just like
(12:06):
enrages me.
So a lack of sleep if hedoesn't get his proper sleep he
turns into like this zombie.
That's like completelyincoherent.
But yeah, bad sleep, poor sleep, I mean all of that.
That just makes everything else, it compounds, it makes it all
worse.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And the thing is is that I honestly would say that
people who maybe have highereducation, higher degrees,
higher earning jobs, thisactually tends to hit them the
worst.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, because you feel, oh, you're getting because
you feel like I'm smart.
I should know this, I shouldhave known better, I should have
done better.
You feel like I'm smart, Ishould know this, I should have
known better, I should have donebetter.
And then you take on a lot ofthat guilt that really you
probably don't need to take on.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, if you grew up in maybe a lower socioeconomic
level, where these things werenot introduced into your family,
you maybe didn't go to college,didn't have a lot of quote
unquote formal education tothink that you should learn this
information, it may not hit youas hard as compared to someone
that maybe is not a doctor, anattorney.
They're like I'm smart, youknow, I've went to school.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Has advanced degrees.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Advanced degrees.
You know I make a good amountof money.
Like I should know this, Ishould understand this, and the
reality is that you need to getrid of that thought process
because just because, forexample, let's just use a doctor
, Just because you went to medschool last time I checked,
obviously I've never been to medschool but I don't think they
had any courses in med school.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
On finances, yeah, I mean, I think if you surveyed
your circle of friends unlessyou were a finance major who has
taken, in high school orcollege, a finance course, and
by finance, right, like I'm nottalking about economics, right,
like there's very few reasons incollege to take those kinds of
classes Personal finance,budgeting, saving interest rates
(13:52):
, apr versus APY, how to pickyour health plan, right, the
things that we should have takeninstead of music appreciation
no offense to music appreciation, I mean we did not have that in
school, we didn't have it in inour, you know, elementary,
middle school or high schoolyears, and then even in college.
(14:13):
So, yes, you are educated, youare smart in your area.
Why are you putting so muchpressure on yourself to feel
like you should know better?
Why, because nobody taught you.
And I think it's especiallydifficult for people in their
families who are the one right,the only, the person who made it
(14:34):
, the person that got out, theperson who has technically
changed their social class fromwhere they came from and I have
a lot of people in my circle.
They were the first to go tocollege, first to get advanced
degrees, first to have the bighouse, the nice car, the
fabulous vacations that is.
You feel that pressuredifferently when you're the
(14:56):
first, the one who made it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I would also say, too , is that, for those individuals
, switching your socioeconomicclass is one of the hardest
things to it.
I would also say, too, is that,for those individuals,
switching your socioeconomicclass is one of the hardest
things to do.
Because the majority of people,the socioeconomic classes
you're born into, is the onethat you die in.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, but then also think about the added financial
burden that often comes withbeing the person that made it,
because now you're picking upthe bill, you're being told well
, you've got it, why can't youpay for this?
You're the one covering thoseunexpected expenses because
maybe those family membersdidn't have an emergency fund.
Like there's a lot of pressureand responsibility that comes
(15:32):
with it.
I mean, look at professionalathletes.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
That's where I was about to go.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Okay, you can go on your.
I mean, we see it all the time,right?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I was going to say that I think a lot of people
have a misperception of whyprofessional athletes quote
unquote go broke when they getout of the league.
Now, obviously some of it doescome from bad financial
decisions, but in all honesty,that's not the bulk of it.
The bulk of it is a lack offinancial literacy.
So, for example, you get yourpaycheck but then you don't
realize how much in taxes aregoing to come out.
And then also, you knowprofessional athletes have very
(16:05):
complicated tax situationsbecause they're taxed in various
states, and then on top of thatyou have to pay your agent,
attorneys, all those things.
So they don't understand howmuch money is going to come out.
But then also, often, like yousaid, they are the first person
in their family that's made it,so now they become financially
responsible for everyone else intheir family.
And the pressure that can comewith feeling as though you have
to take care of your parents,your siblings, extended family,
stuff of that nature I cannotimagine.
I've never been in thatscenario where I feel as though
(16:27):
I have to take care ofespecially people that are older
than you.
That's a hard one, so I canimagine the stress, anxiety and
even depression that comes alongwith that responsibility.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Sometimes yeah, and I don't want to get any of these
facts wrong, but I have heardthat LeBron James has basically
tried to avoid, or has avoided,this kind of problem that you
just described by keeping hiscircle of people close but also
putting them through college sothey all have master's degrees
(16:59):
and MBAs, because he wanted themto learn the financial and
business, super Bowl, all thethings.
And he talked about his kind ofreckless spending.
(17:25):
You know, instantly went out,bought the G-Wagon and the Range
Rover and the this and the that.
And you know, definitely,looking back now hindsight is
2020, would not have made thosedecisions again, but being the
first, being the only, being theone who made it, that just
comes with its own set ofpressures you are correct about
lebron james.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
He definitely did put you know some of his friends
that he grew up with, help putthem you know, like I said, get
an nba, stuff of that nature.
So they're part of his team.
So one he has people around himthat he can trust.
He can trust then also they're,you know they're working and
bringing in their own income sohe doesn't have to put the bill.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
you know, yeah, but the like I said.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
The hard thing is is that we do want to look for ways
to try and break that cycle,and the number one way that you
can start with is that you haveto forgive yourself, like for
what you don't know, for anyerrors that you made in the past
and, in all honesty, for anyerrors that you are going to
potentially make in the future,because even once you do start
(18:24):
to improve your financialliteracy and you get better at
managing your money overall,you're going to make mistakes.
I'm just explaining that, andas plain as I can, because as a
financial advisor, I'm going tomake mistakes.
I know that there's going to bethings that I think are, you
know, good things that we shoulddo, and it turns out they're
not.
So you have to be able toforgive yourself for those
(18:44):
mistakes, learn from them, moveforward and do your best to not,
you know, do them again in thefuture.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Right.
I think one thing, because it'seasier said than done, like, oh
, just forgive yourself.
I mean, if it was that easy,everybody would do it.
But I think there's a shiftthat needs to happen from
blaming yourself to figuring outwhy you feel a certain way and
shifting into that curiousmindset of how did I get myself
(19:11):
in this situation?
How did this happen?
How did it get so bad?
So, instead of saying thingslike, well, why am I like this,
ask yourself you know, what isthis behavior trying to protect
me from?
Or what behavior in the pasthas led me to the circumstance
that I'm in now, and reallyswitching to a curious mindset.
(19:33):
Because, just like in our dreamframework, we have to
understand where our feelingsabout money come from.
They come from somewhere.
They come from privilege, theycome from trauma, they come from
past mistakes.
They're coming from somewhere.
So, getting curious and reallyfiguring out and finding out why
do you feel the way you feelabout the money, what is this
(19:54):
feeling trying to protect youfrom?
I think is a good place tostart, instead of saying why am
I like this?
Why am I bad with money.
One thing it reminds me of is Igrew up saying I'm not good, I'm
not good at math.
I've said that my whole life.
My mom still says it to thisday, and one thing that we do
not say in this house is I'm notgood at math.
(20:15):
We don't say it, right, even ifwe put a, I'm not good at math
yet, or I'm not good at additionyet, right?
We're trying to reframe thingsfor our children so that they
don't start internalizing thingsthat you can work on.
You can be good at math.
You will be good at math.
I am good at math, and thatreframe is something that's in
(20:35):
my head all the time, because Igrew up saying things like that.
And if you're one of thosepeople who's saying like I'm bad
with money, stop saying thatYou're not bad with money.
You have not learned aboutmoney.
You have not been educatedabout money.
You didn't have the tools andresources to learn about money.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Reframe and I want to speak to the fellows on this
one especially, also because Ithink we are new to the whole
mental health aspect, wherethere's just now really starting
to talk about and encourage mento talk about their feelings
and the struggles they've hadwith mental health.
And when it comes to moneyaspects, I know that that is an
(21:14):
identity for a lot of men whenit comes to being in a
relationship.
Is that where does?
What is my role in therelationship?
And my main role is to be theprovider, and by provider they
think more monetarily.
When there's I think there's somany other ways to be a provider
within a relationship, but weprimarily think about it from a
monetary standpoint.
And in these given scenarios,where you are in debt, you maybe
(21:37):
aren't making the amount ofmoney that you would like to
make, you feel as though youcan't adequately provide for
your family, you don't have thefinancial literacy to help out
that, you start to internalizethat and that just mounts on top
of itself and it justmultiplies and it's just a
negative thing overall.
So, as a man all the men outthere you need to, you know, get
(22:00):
rid of this shame of talkingabout your emotions and
expressing that you're not in agood mental space and you need
help.
I think, as men, we have a hardtime asking for help, and I
think in these scenarios youneed help, and so if you have a
partner, that you're withfriends, family, whatever it may
be you need to feel comfortablespeaking to them about these
things.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I think too, recognizing that, like financial
traumas, financial burdens,they are real, that you're not
lazy, you're not broken.
This is not something that hasto be permanent.
I've spoken about this on manyof our episodes, but my college
graduation gift was my parentspaying off my credit card that I
(22:42):
racked up to $10,000.
And it was.
I didn't buy anything lavish, Ididn't buy anything big, but I,
my habits were swipe, swipe,swipe I'll figure it out later
and that's something that I'vehad to learn, and I know we
always joke about wants versusneed.
Well, I wanted and needed a lot, okay, so you know, this is not
(23:04):
me coming from a place of likeI've done everything perfectly
and no, I've had to learn thehard lessons.
Same with me, I've had to learnthem as well is, you know,
start by giving yourself grace,start by communicating,
(23:26):
especially if you are in apartnership, because the reality
is is, if you're carrying thisburden, your partner is carrying
it as well, and so, beinghonest, being vulnerable, like
Brandon just spoke about, Ithink, is really important, and
you have to forgive yourselffrom how you got there and start
with small steps.
You have to start small.
(23:46):
This is and we talk about thison the pod all the time too.
It's not.
Hey, I need to save $100,000.
You need to start by saving $5.
Yeah, you know, like if you'vebeen stacking your your mail and
you're scared to open it.
I'm going to open five letterstoday and I'm going to see what
they say.
I'm going to log into mysavings account, my checking
account.
I'm going to consolidate all ofmy 401ks that I've been putting
(24:15):
off.
Consolidating Like it can be asmall thing, but decide on one
thing to do.
You could decide to do it everyday, once a week.
Don't overwhelm yourself andstick to it.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, long-term progress is simply a composition
of small intermediate progress.
That's really all it is Like.
Think about it, if you'rerunning if you're running a mile
a mile.
It consists of just steps afterstep.
So you focusing on?
I think what happens issometimes people want they may
be in, like, for example, theymay be in so much debt and
(24:45):
they'll just focus on theoverall number say $20,000 in
debt, and they're just focusedon the $20,000 number, and
that's what paralyzes them fromdoing anything.
It's like no, let's focus on themonth by month payment and make
sure that we're paying theminimums, in addition to seeing
if we could free up any moreadditional money.
So, doing those small thingsstep-by-step, like, just focus
on one thing.
Like, for example, if you'vebeen avoiding even just simply
(25:07):
opening your bills or looking atthem online, take that one step
open the bill, hop onto online,look at that bill and actually
really see what it is the amountthat you have to deal with.
So just do one step at a time.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, I think too, putting little things in place
to help you stay accountable.
So you know, putting it on yourcalendar, putting an alert on
your phone, hey, I'm gonna openmy bills at 6pm tonight, or I
need to move $5 into my savingsaccount, or, better yet, I'm
going to automate a $5 move frommy checking to my savings.
(25:41):
You know, on a weekly basis orbi weekly basis, whatever that
might look like, whatever it isthat you are trying to tackle or
that you know you need to starttackling, put processes in
place to help you stayaccountable.
To make it easier so that youdon't what?
What I think is really importanthere is it's easy to disappoint
(26:03):
ourselves, right, and so thatfeeds back into I'm lazy, I'm
bad with money, I can't do this.
So it goes back into that loopwhere you're just going to get
stuck.
So set yourself up for success,automate things, schedule
things, be really intentional sothat you can't say, oh, I was
supposed to move $5.
And I forgot, put it in yourcalendar.
(26:25):
And then, right then, and there, you move that $5.
And then the next week you setup the automation so that you
don't have to have the calendarinvite, do something small.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, the idea here is to reduce friction, make
things in life as easy aspossible for you to succeed and
I'm huge on that with my clientsyou do need to understand who
you are as a person and thereare things about you that you
can change and there are goingto be other things that are just
going to be a little bit harder.
So those things are a littlebit harder to change.
Let's go ahead and put theseprocesses in place to make it as
(26:56):
easy as possible for you toactually be successful.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, absolutely, we've talked about this as well.
You know, spreadsheets,budgeting tools, making sure
maybe we're using a debtreduction calculator to, instead
of feeling overwhelmed hey, Ihave $20,000 to pay off, I have
$80,000 to pay off.
Well, we're going to do that $1at a time.
We're going to do it $10 at atime.
So, using those calculators andagain those tools can help you
(27:23):
put a strategy or plan in place.
And again, it's okay to ask forhelp.
So if you know I'm not going tobe able to do this on my own, or
I've tried to do this on my ownfor the last year, three years,
five years, eight years,whatever it might be and you
have the opportunity to reachout for help and talk to a
Brandon, you know you obviouslycould reach out to Brandon or
(27:45):
someone like Brandon If you needa little bit of handholding, a
little guidance, a littlereassurance, a little sense of
community encouragement, gethelp, do that right.
It's no different than gettinga trainer, getting a regular
therapist working with aphysical therapist.
We work with experts all thetime to get us the places we
(28:10):
want to go.
I mean, think about you go seea hairdresser because you're not
cutting your own hair.
That's you getting help.
Could you cut your own hair?
Sure, is it going to turn outgreat.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I don't have that issue, probably not.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
But we need to also reframe like oh, asking for help
, getting help, getting support.
Or even I'll take it a stepfurther paying for support Right
, if it's going to help you getout of debt, if it's going to
cut that time down, yeah, youcan do it by yourself, but it's
going to take you five years Ifyou work with somebody else.
Maybe it's only two, maybe it'sone.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And also there are now financial therapists.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yes, maybe it's only two, maybe it's one, and also
there are now financialtherapists.
Yes, we're going to have two onthe podcast later this year and
I'm very excited because theyactually know what they're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, because there's the difference between, like
you know, a financial planner,financial advisor, which you
know we do touch on somebehavioral aspects, but by no
means are we a therapist, right,but you know, that's more the
tactical stuff in regards toputting processes in place to
help you along your financialjourney.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
As compared to the financial therapist.
You know if it's depression,anxiety, whatever it may be,
that you have an associationwith when it comes to your
finances.
Because if you have, maybe someimpulse control, you know
barriers or you have a hard timefocusing and staying.
You know on task when it comesto, okay, making my budget
(29:44):
making, setting up my savings,setting up my automations, you
have a real reason for why thisis difficult for you.
That's something that needs tobe acknowledged, like stop
punishing yourself for that.
Acknowledge it and thenunderstand hey, I might need a
little bit of help, I might needsome support, I might need
somebody to hold my hand,because I know that this is
(30:05):
something I struggle with.
My diagnosis of X is going tomake this difficult and,
honestly, at the end of the day,a lot of times it just comes
down to time and prioritization,because we're all busy.
I don't care if you're single,if you have a family, if you
have a spouse, if you have a dog, a goldfish.
We are all busy.
Life is busy right now and Idon't see that changing anytime
(30:28):
soon.
So sometimes we just need helpto prioritize and put systems
and processes in place that aregoing to get us on track and to
help us achieve our goals.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
I also think it's very interesting that you had
brought up the ADHD aspect asfar as how you're able to manage
these tasks, because that's onething that I've actually
started thinking about morerecently as I dive more into
behavioral finance as far asworking with clients, is that I
do need to understand thesethings about you as a client.
So, like if you do have ADHD,you know, opening up and letting
(31:02):
your financial advisor orfinancial planner know that can
be very helpful in regards tohow they specifically interact
with you.
So, for example, you know, ifyou're someone that has a hard
time completing tasks, you knowme just sending you a list of
things to do is not going to bethe most productive way to get
those things done.
So you know, that is definitelysomething that you know.
(31:22):
I'm glad you brought up becauseI've been really thinking about
in regards to how I interactwith clients, and then just also
thinking about the clients thatI currently have and how each
individual one is so differentin certain aspects, and how I
have to tailor how I, you know,interact with, communicate stuff
of that nature, in order to getthe best possible outcome for
them.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, and I know you're not a therapist, but I
know often you feel like you'rea therapist.
But it's good that you'reconsidering those things because
they do make a difference.
And if, like you said, ifsomebody has a hard time
completing a task, well, maybeit's not them purposefully
avoiding something and you'relike, oh, so-and-so isn't
getting something done.
It's.
You know, hey, maybe we need toschedule a 15, 20 minute sync
(32:04):
and we can do it together so wecan ensure it gets done.
I mean, that's a process change.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, since obviously a person who's working with me
is paying me.
So I have never encountered asituation where someone is just
purposely avoiding me.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It's more or less finding out what is underneath
the surface that is going on.
That's preventing them fromhaving the outcome that we wanna
have.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, All of these considerations, they matter,
they're real, they're valid, andwe just wanted to highlight
some of these things in today'sepisode to let you know that
you're not broken, you're notlazy, you're not bad with money,
you haven't been taught, youhaven't been given the skills
(32:45):
yet, and you don't have toremain stuck here.
There are so many stories ofpeople who have been in loads
and loads of debt and are nowmultimillionaires because they
either got help, they figured itout, they, you know, listened
to podcasts like ours, theystarted working with financial
(33:06):
advisors.
Whatever that might be, it'sokay to ask for help.
We are encouraging you to getthe help wherever you need it in
your life and to help you makethose steps to help you reach
your goals.
I agree, yeah, so happy MentalHealth Awareness Month.
Hopefully you know after thisepisode or any episodes that
(33:28):
you've listened to with us, thatthis is always a safe space.
We are here to encourage you,we are rooting for you and we
wish you well and we hope to seeyou next time.
Don't forget.
Benjamin Franklin said aninvestment in knowledge pays the
best interest.
You just got paid Until nexttime.
(34:01):
Thanks for listening to today'sepisode.
We are so glad to have you aspart of our Sugar Daddy
community.
If you learned something today,please remember to subscribe,
rate, review and share thisepisode with your friends,
family and extended network.
Don't forget to connect with uson social media at the Sugar
Daddy Podcast.
You can also email us yourquestions you want us to answer
for our past the Sugar segmentsat thesugardaddypodcast at
(34:22):
gmailcom, or leave us avoicemail through our Instagram.
This episode is sponsored by Prenupscom.
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Their specialty is fair prenupsthat help couples plan for a
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Already married?
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That's what Brandon and I didafter eight years of marriage.
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They do postnuptial agreementstoo.
That's what Brandon and I didafter eight years of marriage.
Today's episode is for anyonefeeling overwhelmed by debt,
struggling with money shame andcraving a judgment-free
conversation about how financialpressure affects our mental
health.
We are going to explore atwo-way relationship between
debt and depression andchallenge the shame that keeps
people financially andemotionally stuck.
(01:05):
We definitely want to offer youboth a mindset shift and
actionable steps to help youstart breaking free.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, it is Mental Health Awareness Month and we're
going to be talking about themoney and the mental today.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, yes, may is Mental Health Awareness Month
and, thankfully, over the pastfew years, there definitely has
been a push for being more openand talking about mental health
struggles that you knowindividuals may be having.
And when it comes to your money, those two can definitely, you
know, intertwine.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there is a lot ofmental space that is taken up by
money problems, money shame,money guilt, money plans Really,
I mean just anything thattouches money could be very
mentally draining and exhaustingand triggering for many people.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I would definitely say that money is a
stress inducer, unfortunately,for a lot of people, and when
you don't address it properly,then it's just.
It filters into every otheraspect of your life, as far as
how you're going to interactwith your spouse, how you
interact with your kids, how youinteract with your friends, how
you interact at work.
So it is definitely somethingvery important that does need to
(02:33):
be addressed, and I don't think, when it comes to we think
about mental health in so manydifferent aspects.
I don't think we often thinkabout it in relationship to
money.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Right, even though think about it.
I mean I have friends in mycircle who you know, make a
great income, are high earners,but maybe they have student loan
debts, maybe they have moved aparent in.
You know, some people haveteenagers, but also young kids,
and then maybe even college agekids who you know they've taken
(03:03):
on their, their kids, studentloans.
That's, you know, a landscapein itself right now.
That is just, I mean, that'smentally draining, because who
can even keep up with all thedifferent like repayment plans
and all the things going on.
I mean there's just so muchthat occupies our mental space,
(03:23):
that touches money and honestlyI know it's keeping them up at
night.
And I think if you're listeningto this episode today, you're
not alone.
I think that normalizing theconversation which is why we
started the podcast in the firstplace, is the best place to
start, but also digging in andfiguring out, you know, not only
(03:45):
why do you feel the way youfeel, but how can we come out
from this?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I mean, I agree with everything you said.
I also do want to preface thatwe are not professionals within
the mental health space.
No, we are not psychiatrists,therapists, counselors none of
that none of the above we'remore or less talking about just
from our own personal experience, and then, obviously, we do
have experience within thefinancial realm area to speak on
that aspect.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, but really today's conversation is going to
be around the common debts thatmost of us have some sort of
experience.
When you're thinking aboutstudent loans, credit cards,
medical debts, lifestyle creep,I mean, I have student loans.
I had shoulder surgery lastyear.
Now Brandon tore his Achilles,so now we're dealing with that.
(04:33):
We found out was it yesterday,I think that are out of pocket
for you is $9,000.
I mean, like it's just all somuch, even when I know that
we're doing fine.
You know you could always bedoing better.
There's always we always wantto save more money.
You know we had plans for mybonus.
(04:54):
Now Brandon got hurt.
Now we're getting a tax refundwe weren't expecting, which is
such a blessing, but now we'rehaving to have the conversation
of OK, well, how, how do we makethe most strategic decision?
So even when you're in a goodplace quote, unquote, good place
with money, it still takes alot of our mental space.
It still is something that wetalk about all the time because
(05:16):
we're trying to be strategic,we're trying to be smart, we're
trying not to mess up, we'retrying to set ourselves up for
our future and plan forretirement and all the things
and I'll be honest, it keeps meup at night, you know, even if
you're thinking about miles andpoints and how to get the best
bang for your buck when it comesto your vacation and your
flights.
And it's all draining and it'sall a lot mentally.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
All right, real quick .
I want to speak to the personlistening who feels like they
can't work with a financialplanner yet because they're
carrying a lot of debt.
First of all, I see you and Ineed you to know.
You're not broken, you're notbehind, you're just in a tough
season.
I created something just foryou because I've had people
reach out who are serious aboutchanging their money story.
But the full financial planningpackage just wasn't the right
(06:05):
fit yet.
So I built a new service throughOak City Financial that's
focused completely on debtreduction no fluff, no shame.
You'll get a one-time planningsession, a personalized payoff
strategy, your own financialdashboard and monthly coaching.
If you want extra support whileyou climb out, it's $300 to get
started in, a hundred dollars amonth.
If you want that ongoingguidance, that's it.
(06:27):
This is about helping you getunstuck, not making you feel
like you failed.
If this sounds like what you'vebeen needing, go ahead and
schedule a call with me.
The link is in the show notes.
Let's take the first steptogether.
Let's take the first steptogether.
Yeah, I said that on, and thenalso you got to think about it
too.
It's on top of everything elsethat's going on in the world
(06:53):
right now, you know, especiallywith technology, we are so
inundated with so much negativeinformation on a regular basis
that sometimes I feel like it'shard to come up and breathe
because yes unfortunately.
I mean, I found myself kind ofin the same rut sometimes.
Is that with the algorithm thathappens with social media?
You want to be aware of what'sgoing on in the world and you're
looking through thatinformation.
But then also, what thenhappens is is that now that
(07:15):
information is all in youralgorithm?
So that seems?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
you can't get away from it.
You can't get away from it.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So you're trying to scroll, maybe just to like, have
some mindless entertainment,but you're still being inundated
with all that negativeinformation.
And, like I said, it's a hardbalance because, especially,
like you know, for Justin and I,as people of color, we have to
stay informed but at the sametime, staying informed can also
put you in a bad mental healthspace.
Staying informed can also putyou in a bad mental health space
(07:40):
.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, you have to set your boundaries.
I mean, a few years ago we werenot in a good place mentally.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
During the pandemic with CNN.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, we were just watching way we were consuming
way too much news.
None of it was positive, I mean, it was on all the time.
It was just not good, so we hadto set some boundaries.
I've been setting someboundaries, but I think one of
the important things to to callout is that your mental state
when it comes to your money, isnot just emotions, right, it's
(08:15):
not just I feel bad, I feelanxious.
I feel this.
I feel that it is based on yourcircumstance, and sometimes our
circumstances are self induced,and other times they are just
what they are.
They are circumstances, theyare products of your environment
.
And sometimes you know we getinto debt because we didn't have
(08:38):
a choice, and so that issomething that I think is really
important to acknowledge toothat sometimes it is just based
on our circumstance andhopefully we can change the
circumstance to get us out ofthat debt depression loop, right
where that chronic financialstress, you know, is causing not
(08:59):
only the emotional part of thatmental fatigue, but also, I
mean we know that it can lead todepression and anxiety, and you
know your cortisol levels arenot regulated, which causes a
whole other influx of problems.
I mean it really is a loop thatwe need to be aware of and that
we need to be mindful of.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, I mean it's referred to as the debt
depression loop, where you knowyou kind of get to a point where
you are in debt, so you'rehaving, you know the issues in
regards to being able to pay offdebt, whether that's student
loan, debt, credit card debt,whatever it may be but then that
being in debt kind of leads tothe feeling of being overwhelmed
, which I think most people canare familiar with.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Guilty.
I feel overwhelmed all the time.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
And then, unfortunately, what happens?
When you're overwhelmed, youstart to feel as though you
can't do anything about it.
So, therefore, you just simplyavoid the problem altogether.
And, as we've discussednumerous times before, avoiding
the problem doesn't fix aproblem.
It just simply leads to makingthe problem actually worse.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
So that's like you're letting your bills pile up,
you're not checking your mail,you're afraid to log into your
bank accounts.
You don't want to have thatconversation maybe with your
partner or spouse to say it'stime for a money meeting, we've
got to sit down and look atthese numbers.
So that's that avoidance.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And then, since you're avoiding it and the
problem is getting worse, thatleads to you feeling even more
like a quote unquote failure,because this problem is not
being fixed, it's getting worse.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And once that starts to kick in, that's when your
depression, anxiety and stuff ofthat nature starts to increase.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Well, and then on top of that, it kind of has that
snowball effect, because ifyou're not opening your bills,
you're not checking youraccounts no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So it's not just a matter of you know your mental
well-being.
It starts to affect your bodyphysically, in the sense of you
know you start to not be able tosleep.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And we know you can't .
If you are not getting propersleep, everything else is going
to fall apart.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Cause.
Normally, I can tell you, I'mthe type of person where I
normally sleep very well.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
His head hits the pillow and he's done.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And the few times in my life that I've had issues
sleeping.
It is very apparent to Jesswhen that happens, because I am
not the same person, so I canonly imagine for other people.
You know the same thing.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, as somebody myself who sleeps next to a
great sleeper, I'm here to tellyou it is enraging and
infuriating, because I'm one ofthose people.
It takes me a very long time,sometimes hours, to actually
fall asleep.
And so to be next to Brandonwho like literally his head hits
the pillow and he's snoringlike mid sentence, it just like
(12:06):
enrages me.
So a lack of sleep if hedoesn't get his proper sleep he
turns into like this zombie.
That's like completelyincoherent.
But yeah, bad sleep, poor sleep, I mean all of that.
That just makes everything else, it compounds, it makes it all
worse.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And the thing is is that I honestly would say that
people who maybe have highereducation, higher degrees,
higher earning jobs, thisactually tends to hit them the
worst.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, because you feel, oh, you're getting because
you feel like I'm smart.
I should know this, I shouldhave known better, I should have
done better.
You feel like I'm smart, Ishould know this, I should have
known better, I should have donebetter.
And then you take on a lot ofthat guilt that really you
probably don't need to take on.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, if you grew up in maybe a lower socioeconomic
level, where these things werenot introduced into your family,
you maybe didn't go to college,didn't have a lot of quote
unquote formal education tothink that you should learn this
information, it may not hit youas hard as compared to someone
that maybe is not a doctor, anattorney.
They're like I'm smart, youknow, I've went to school.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Has advanced degrees.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Advanced degrees.
You know I make a good amountof money.
Like I should know this, Ishould understand this, and the
reality is that you need to getrid of that thought process
because just because, forexample, let's just use a doctor
, Just because you went to medschool last time I checked,
obviously I've never been to medschool but I don't think they
had any courses in med school.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
On finances, yeah, I mean, I think if you surveyed
your circle of friends unlessyou were a finance major who has
taken, in high school orcollege, a finance course, and
by finance, right, like I'm nottalking about economics, right,
like there's very few reasons incollege to take those kinds of
classes Personal finance,budgeting, saving interest rates
(13:52):
, apr versus APY, how to pickyour health plan, right, the
things that we should have takeninstead of music appreciation
no offense to music appreciation, I mean we did not have that in
school, we didn't have it in inour, you know, elementary,
middle school or high schoolyears, and then even in college.
(14:13):
So, yes, you are educated, youare smart in your area.
Why are you putting so muchpressure on yourself to feel
like you should know better?
Why, because nobody taught you.
And I think it's especiallydifficult for people in their
families who are the one right,the only, the person who made it
(14:34):
, the person that got out, theperson who has technically
changed their social class fromwhere they came from and I have
a lot of people in my circle.
They were the first to go tocollege, first to get advanced
degrees, first to have the bighouse, the nice car, the
fabulous vacations that is.
You feel that pressuredifferently when you're the
(14:56):
first, the one who made it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I would also say, too , is that, for those individuals
, switching your socioeconomicclass is one of the hardest
things to it.
I would also say, too, is that,for those individuals,
switching your socioeconomicclass is one of the hardest
things to do.
Because the majority of people,the socioeconomic classes
you're born into, is the onethat you die in.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, but then also think about the added financial
burden that often comes withbeing the person that made it,
because now you're picking upthe bill, you're being told well
, you've got it, why can't youpay for this?
You're the one covering thoseunexpected expenses because
maybe those family membersdidn't have an emergency fund.
Like there's a lot of pressureand responsibility that comes
(15:32):
with it.
I mean, look at professionalathletes.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
That's where I was about to go.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Okay, you can go on your.
I mean, we see it all the time,right?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I was going to say that I think a lot of people
have a misperception of whyprofessional athletes quote
unquote go broke when they getout of the league.
Now, obviously some of it doescome from bad financial
decisions, but in all honesty,that's not the bulk of it.
The bulk of it is a lack offinancial literacy.
So, for example, you get yourpaycheck but then you don't
realize how much in taxes aregoing to come out.
And then also, you knowprofessional athletes have very
(16:05):
complicated tax situationsbecause they're taxed in various
states, and then on top of thatyou have to pay your agent,
attorneys, all those things.
So they don't understand howmuch money is going to come out.
But then also, often, like yousaid, they are the first person
in their family that's made it,so now they become financially
responsible for everyone else intheir family.
And the pressure that can comewith feeling as though you have
to take care of your parents,your siblings, extended family,
stuff of that nature I cannotimagine.
I've never been in thatscenario where I feel as though
(16:27):
I have to take care ofespecially people that are older
than you.
That's a hard one, so I canimagine the stress, anxiety and
even depression that comes alongwith that responsibility.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Sometimes yeah, and I don't want to get any of these
facts wrong, but I have heardthat LeBron James has basically
tried to avoid, or has avoided,this kind of problem that you
just described by keeping hiscircle of people close but also
putting them through college sothey all have master's degrees
(16:59):
and MBAs, because he wanted themto learn the financial and
business, super Bowl, all thethings.
And he talked about his kind ofreckless spending.
(17:25):
You know, instantly went out,bought the G-Wagon and the Range
Rover and the this and the that.
And you know, definitely,looking back now hindsight is
2020, would not have made thosedecisions again, but being the
first, being the only, being theone who made it, that just
comes with its own set ofpressures you are correct about
lebron james.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
He definitely did put you know some of his friends
that he grew up with, help putthem you know, like I said, get
an nba, stuff of that nature.
So they're part of his team.
So one he has people around himthat he can trust.
He can trust then also they're,you know they're working and
bringing in their own income sohe doesn't have to put the bill.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
you know, yeah, but the like I said.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
The hard thing is is that we do want to look for ways
to try and break that cycle,and the number one way that you
can start with is that you haveto forgive yourself, like for
what you don't know, for anyerrors that you made in the past
and, in all honesty, for anyerrors that you are going to
potentially make in the future,because even once you do start
(18:24):
to improve your financialliteracy and you get better at
managing your money overall,you're going to make mistakes.
I'm just explaining that, andas plain as I can, because as a
financial advisor, I'm going tomake mistakes.
I know that there's going to bethings that I think are, you
know, good things that we shoulddo, and it turns out they're
not.
So you have to be able toforgive yourself for those
(18:44):
mistakes, learn from them, moveforward and do your best to not,
you know, do them again in thefuture.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Right.
I think one thing, because it'seasier said than done, like, oh
, just forgive yourself.
I mean, if it was that easy,everybody would do it.
But I think there's a shiftthat needs to happen from
blaming yourself to figuring outwhy you feel a certain way and
shifting into that curiousmindset of how did I get myself
(19:11):
in this situation?
How did this happen?
How did it get so bad?
So, instead of saying thingslike, well, why am I like this,
ask yourself you know, what isthis behavior trying to protect
me from?
Or what behavior in the pasthas led me to the circumstance
that I'm in now, and reallyswitching to a curious mindset.
(19:33):
Because, just like in our dreamframework, we have to
understand where our feelingsabout money come from.
They come from somewhere.
They come from privilege, theycome from trauma, they come from
past mistakes.
They're coming from somewhere.
So, getting curious and reallyfiguring out and finding out why
do you feel the way you feelabout the money, what is this
(19:54):
feeling trying to protect youfrom?
I think is a good place tostart, instead of saying why am
I like this?
Why am I bad with money.
One thing it reminds me of is Igrew up saying I'm not good, I'm
not good at math.
I've said that my whole life.
My mom still says it to thisday, and one thing that we do
not say in this house is I'm notgood at math.
(20:15):
We don't say it, right, even ifwe put a, I'm not good at math
yet, or I'm not good at additionyet, right?
We're trying to reframe thingsfor our children so that they
don't start internalizing thingsthat you can work on.
You can be good at math.
You will be good at math.
I am good at math, and thatreframe is something that's in
(20:35):
my head all the time, because Igrew up saying things like that.
And if you're one of thosepeople who's saying like I'm bad
with money, stop saying thatYou're not bad with money.
You have not learned aboutmoney.
You have not been educatedabout money.
You didn't have the tools andresources to learn about money.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Reframe and I want to speak to the fellows on this
one especially, also because Ithink we are new to the whole
mental health aspect, wherethere's just now really starting
to talk about and encourage mento talk about their feelings
and the struggles they've hadwith mental health.
And when it comes to moneyaspects, I know that that is an
(21:14):
identity for a lot of men whenit comes to being in a
relationship.
Is that where does?
What is my role in therelationship?
And my main role is to be theprovider, and by provider they
think more monetarily.
When there's I think there's somany other ways to be a provider
within a relationship, but weprimarily think about it from a
monetary standpoint.
And in these given scenarios,where you are in debt, you maybe
(21:37):
aren't making the amount ofmoney that you would like to
make, you feel as though youcan't adequately provide for
your family, you don't have thefinancial literacy to help out
that, you start to internalizethat and that just mounts on top
of itself and it justmultiplies and it's just a
negative thing overall.
So, as a man all the men outthere you need to, you know, get
(22:00):
rid of this shame of talkingabout your emotions and
expressing that you're not in agood mental space and you need
help.
I think, as men, we have a hardtime asking for help, and I
think in these scenarios youneed help, and so if you have a
partner, that you're withfriends, family, whatever it may
be you need to feel comfortablespeaking to them about these
things.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I think too, recognizing that, like financial
traumas, financial burdens,they are real, that you're not
lazy, you're not broken.
This is not something that hasto be permanent.
I've spoken about this on manyof our episodes, but my college
graduation gift was my parentspaying off my credit card that I
(22:42):
racked up to $10,000.
And it was.
I didn't buy anything lavish, Ididn't buy anything big, but I,
my habits were swipe, swipe,swipe I'll figure it out later
and that's something that I'vehad to learn, and I know we
always joke about wants versusneed.
Well, I wanted and needed a lot, okay, so you know, this is not
(23:04):
me coming from a place of likeI've done everything perfectly
and no, I've had to learn thehard lessons.
Same with me, I've had to learnthem as well is, you know,
start by giving yourself grace,start by communicating,
(23:26):
especially if you are in apartnership, because the reality
is is, if you're carrying thisburden, your partner is carrying
it as well, and so, beinghonest, being vulnerable, like
Brandon just spoke about, Ithink, is really important, and
you have to forgive yourselffrom how you got there and start
with small steps.
You have to start small.
(23:46):
This is and we talk about thison the pod all the time too.
It's not.
Hey, I need to save $100,000.
You need to start by saving $5.
Yeah, you know, like if you'vebeen stacking your your mail and
you're scared to open it.
I'm going to open five letterstoday and I'm going to see what
they say.
I'm going to log into mysavings account, my checking
account.
I'm going to consolidate all ofmy 401ks that I've been putting
(24:15):
off.
Consolidating Like it can be asmall thing, but decide on one
thing to do.
You could decide to do it everyday, once a week.
Don't overwhelm yourself andstick to it.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, long-term progress is simply a composition
of small intermediate progress.
That's really all it is Like.
Think about it, if you'rerunning if you're running a mile
a mile.
It consists of just steps afterstep.
So you focusing on?
I think what happens issometimes people want they may
be in, like, for example, theymay be in so much debt and
(24:45):
they'll just focus on theoverall number say $20,000 in
debt, and they're just focusedon the $20,000 number, and
that's what paralyzes them fromdoing anything.
It's like no, let's focus on themonth by month payment and make
sure that we're paying theminimums, in addition to seeing
if we could free up any moreadditional money.
So, doing those small thingsstep-by-step, like, just focus
on one thing.
Like, for example, if you'vebeen avoiding even just simply
(25:07):
opening your bills or looking atthem online, take that one step
open the bill, hop onto online,look at that bill and actually
really see what it is the amountthat you have to deal with.
So just do one step at a time.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, I think too, putting little things in place
to help you stay accountable.
So you know, putting it on yourcalendar, putting an alert on
your phone, hey, I'm gonna openmy bills at 6pm tonight, or I
need to move $5 into my savingsaccount, or, better yet, I'm
going to automate a $5 move frommy checking to my savings.
(25:41):
You know, on a weekly basis orbi weekly basis, whatever that
might look like, whatever it isthat you are trying to tackle or
that you know you need to starttackling, put processes in
place to help you stayaccountable.
To make it easier so that youdon't what?
What I think is really importanthere is it's easy to disappoint
(26:03):
ourselves, right, and so thatfeeds back into I'm lazy, I'm
bad with money, I can't do this.
So it goes back into that loopwhere you're just going to get
stuck.
So set yourself up for success,automate things, schedule
things, be really intentional sothat you can't say, oh, I was
supposed to move $5.
And I forgot, put it in yourcalendar.
(26:25):
And then, right then, and there, you move that $5.
And then the next week you setup the automation so that you
don't have to have the calendarinvite, do something small.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, the idea here is to reduce friction, make
things in life as easy aspossible for you to succeed and
I'm huge on that with my clientsyou do need to understand who
you are as a person and thereare things about you that you
can change and there are goingto be other things that are just
going to be a little bit harder.
So those things are a littlebit harder to change.
Let's go ahead and put theseprocesses in place to make it as
(26:56):
easy as possible for you toactually be successful.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, absolutely, we've talked about this as well.
You know, spreadsheets,budgeting tools, making sure
maybe we're using a debtreduction calculator to, instead
of feeling overwhelmed hey, Ihave $20,000 to pay off, I have
$80,000 to pay off.
Well, we're going to do that $1at a time.
We're going to do it $10 at atime.
So, using those calculators andagain those tools can help you
(27:23):
put a strategy or plan in place.
And again, it's okay to ask forhelp.
So if you know I'm not going tobe able to do this on my own, or
I've tried to do this on my ownfor the last year, three years,
five years, eight years,whatever it might be and you
have the opportunity to reachout for help and talk to a
Brandon, you know you obviouslycould reach out to Brandon or
(27:45):
someone like Brandon If you needa little bit of handholding, a
little guidance, a littlereassurance, a little sense of
community encouragement, gethelp, do that right.
It's no different than gettinga trainer, getting a regular
therapist working with aphysical therapist.
We work with experts all thetime to get us the places we
(28:10):
want to go.
I mean, think about you go seea hairdresser because you're not
cutting your own hair.
That's you getting help.
Could you cut your own hair?
Sure, is it going to turn outgreat.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I don't have that issue, probably not.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
But we need to also reframe like oh, asking for help
, getting help, getting support.
Or even I'll take it a stepfurther paying for support Right
, if it's going to help you getout of debt, if it's going to
cut that time down, yeah, youcan do it by yourself, but it's
going to take you five years Ifyou work with somebody else.
Maybe it's only two, maybe it'sone.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And also there are now financial therapists.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yes, maybe it's only two, maybe it's one, and also
there are now financialtherapists.
Yes, we're going to have two onthe podcast later this year and
I'm very excited because theyactually know what they're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, because there's the difference between, like
you know, a financial planner,financial advisor, which you
know we do touch on somebehavioral aspects, but by no
means are we a therapist, right,but you know, that's more the
tactical stuff in regards toputting processes in place to
help you along your financialjourney.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
As compared to the financial therapist.
You know if it's depression,anxiety, whatever it may be,
that you have an associationwith when it comes to your
finances.
Because if you have, maybe someimpulse control, you know
barriers or you have a hard timefocusing and staying.
You know on task when it comesto, okay, making my budget
(29:44):
making, setting up my savings,setting up my automations, you
have a real reason for why thisis difficult for you.
That's something that needs tobe acknowledged, like stop
punishing yourself for that.
Acknowledge it and thenunderstand hey, I might need a
little bit of help, I might needsome support, I might need
somebody to hold my hand,because I know that this is
(30:05):
something I struggle with.
My diagnosis of X is going tomake this difficult and,
honestly, at the end of the day,a lot of times it just comes
down to time and prioritization,because we're all busy.
I don't care if you're single,if you have a family, if you
have a spouse, if you have a dog, a goldfish.
We are all busy.
Life is busy right now and Idon't see that changing anytime
(30:28):
soon.
So sometimes we just need helpto prioritize and put systems
and processes in place that aregoing to get us on track and to
help us achieve our goals.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
I also think it's very interesting that you had
brought up the ADHD aspect asfar as how you're able to manage
these tasks, because that's onething that I've actually
started thinking about morerecently as I dive more into
behavioral finance as far asworking with clients, is that I
do need to understand thesethings about you as a client.
So, like if you do have ADHD,you know, opening up and letting
(31:02):
your financial advisor orfinancial planner know that can
be very helpful in regards tohow they specifically interact
with you.
So, for example, you know, ifyou're someone that has a hard
time completing tasks, you knowme just sending you a list of
things to do is not going to bethe most productive way to get
those things done.
So you know, that is definitelysomething that you know.
(31:22):
I'm glad you brought up becauseI've been really thinking about
in regards to how I interactwith clients, and then just also
thinking about the clients thatI currently have and how each
individual one is so differentin certain aspects, and how I
have to tailor how I, you know,interact with, communicate stuff
of that nature, in order to getthe best possible outcome for
them.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, and I know you're not a therapist, but I
know often you feel like you'rea therapist.
But it's good that you'reconsidering those things because
they do make a difference.
And if, like you said, ifsomebody has a hard time
completing a task, well, maybeit's not them purposefully
avoiding something and you'relike, oh, so-and-so isn't
getting something done.
It's.
You know, hey, maybe we need toschedule a 15, 20 minute sync
(32:04):
and we can do it together so wecan ensure it gets done.
I mean, that's a process change.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, since obviously a person who's working with me
is paying me.
So I have never encountered asituation where someone is just
purposely avoiding me.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It's more or less finding out what is underneath
the surface that is going on.
That's preventing them fromhaving the outcome that we wanna
have.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, All of these considerations, they matter,
they're real, they're valid, andwe just wanted to highlight
some of these things in today'sepisode to let you know that
you're not broken, you're notlazy, you're not bad with money,
you haven't been taught, youhaven't been given the skills
(32:45):
yet, and you don't have toremain stuck here.
There are so many stories ofpeople who have been in loads
and loads of debt and are nowmultimillionaires because they
either got help, they figured itout, they, you know, listened
to podcasts like ours, theystarted working with financial
(33:06):
advisors.
Whatever that might be, it'sokay to ask for help.
We are encouraging you to getthe help wherever you need it in
your life and to help you makethose steps to help you reach
your goals.
I agree, yeah, so happy MentalHealth Awareness Month.
Hopefully you know after thisepisode or any episodes that
(33:28):
you've listened to with us, thatthis is always a safe space.
We are here to encourage you,we are rooting for you and we
wish you well and we hope to seeyou next time.
Don't forget.
Benjamin Franklin said aninvestment in knowledge pays the
best interest.
You just got paid Until nexttime.
(34:01):
Thanks for listening to today'sepisode.
We are so glad to have you aspart of our Sugar Daddy
community.
If you learned something today,please remember to subscribe,
rate, review and share thisepisode with your friends,
family and extended network.
Don't forget to connect with uson social media at the Sugar
Daddy Podcast.
You can also email us yourquestions you want us to answer
for our past the Sugar segmentsat thesugardaddypodcast at
(34:22):
gmailcom, or leave us avoicemail through our Instagram.
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