January 14, 2021 • 48 mins
Small businesses are the backbone of American commerce and COVID has impacted them all differently. Survival is a matter of doing the things others are not capable of doing.
Digital marketing will be key in helping businesses thrive during 2021, but what to do and when can feel daunting. In this episode we sit down with David Somerfleck to discuss how digital marketing is the great equalizer in the next 12 months. Listen in has he shares from his experience on how small businesses can compete without breaking the bank.
About David M. Somerfleck
David began studying web design in the early nineties, during the earliest days of the internet.
He quickly realized that without SEO, content marketing, social media content distribution, and a smart layered marketing plan moving strategies forward, a website in and of itself simply would not do much to help the average small business owner.
David worked for multiple agencies as a freelancer, staffer, Project Manager, Team Lead, writer, editor, and wearing many other hats. Eventually, David had amassed several decades of experience, working with non-profits, business owners of all kinds, while still working for digital marketing (or “web agencies”) of all kinds until finally starting a solo consultancy in early 2019.
Now, David’s semi-retired, enjoying life with is lovely wife, but still ready to help today’s committed business owner make the transition from being operational to establishing sustained profitability and self-reliance.
David enjoys hiking, horseback riding, learning new languages, studying technology and business trends, watching Bloomberg and Cheddar, practicing aikido, and helping entrepreneurs reignite their passion for change.
About Kyle Hamer
A sales and marketing veteran with a deep understanding of strategy, digital marketing execution, and using technology to enhance brand impact. A hands-on leader with a passion for solving business challenges with process, operations, and technology. When Kyle's not tinkering on businesses, you'll find him spending time with those he loves, learning about incredible people, and making connections.
About Hamer Marketing Group
Market growth for a new product or service is often limited by market distractions, unreliable data, or systems not built to scale. Hamer Marketing Group helps companies build data-driven strategies focused on client acquisition and sales development supported by the technology and operations necessary to create profitable growth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ooh, welcome to the summit.
A podcast focused on bringingyou the knowledge and insights
for industry leaders.
I'm your host Kyle hammer, andI'm on a mission to help you
exceed your potential.
As a sales guy, turned marketer,I am passionate about building
sustainable businesses.
And if there's one thing I'velearned in my 20 year career,
that you won't find an overnightgrowth scheme, a shortcut to
success or way to hack yourselfto the top.
(00:23):
Nope.
Success is the by-product ofhard work, great relationships
and deep understanding done overand over.
We're here to help you unlockthat success with some secrets
from other people.
One conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back to another episode of the summit.
I'm your host Kyle hammer.
Today's guest on the summit isDavid summer flick David,
welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me, Kyle.
How's it going today, man?
I can't complain.
And if I did, nobody would care.
So there you are.
So you look like you're doingokay.
And I had fun talking to youbefore we started.
(00:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Now for those of you who don'tknow, David David is a, uh, well
self professed Jack of alltrades master of none digital
marketing, extraordinary.
Uh, David spent his timestudying web design in the early
nineties.
He's really got a background increative writing in journalism,
(01:18):
but across the, uh, th the stepsof his career, he's taken
progress in to look at what'sgoing on with business owners,
put together creative ways inwhich to solve things and
ultimately helps set them up forsuccess.
Long-term if you don't findDavid in the middle of a
presentation or helping somebodytransform their, their business
(01:39):
digitally, you'll find himhanging out with his wife, doing
some air retired activities likeworking out, or maybe bumming
around on the beach.
Did I capture just abouteverything, David?
That's pretty good.
There be anything fun you'd liketo add.
Um, you know, I, I love workingwith, uh, business owners who
(02:01):
want to turn things around andthat's, it, it requires a high
level of commitment andrealistic expectations
organization.
So as you might expect, it's,it's rare, but businesses now
need it more than ever before.
Probably in our nation'shistory.
(02:22):
I mean, certainly like withinthe last two, um, last hundred
years, you know, uh, I like tohave fun, but you know, when I
look at the news and I seewhat's going on in terms of
business and what's happening tothe business owners to small
business owners, to mom and popsright now, they're getting
crushed.
(02:43):
And, um, that's why I want to beon podcasts.
That's why I want to helpbusiness owners.
And it's a passion of mine.
I love to read.
I love to enjoy life with mywife and relax and everything.
Um, but I also see what's onand, you know, I want to do
everything I can to try to help.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
That's great.
You know, having a servant'sheart is a, is never a bad
thing, especially when it comesto helping out, uh, other
businesses in the market.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah.
I'm very passionate about it.
And, um, you know, in additionto this 20 plus years experience
working for different marketingagencies, I was also certified
small business mentor for anorganization called score, which
is a division of the us smallbusiness administration.
So I went through all thetraining and everything, which,
(03:31):
you know, I had already had, butI went through all of that.
So I could be a mentor for them.
And often on, it was like 10years.
And I must've talked to a coupleof hundred small business owners
and nonprofit administrators andstartup founders.
And, you know, you see patternsafter a while, and that's why
(03:53):
I'm here talking with you.
I want to do everything I can totry to be a positive, you know,
positive force when it comes tobusiness.
That's great.
And, and sales and marketing.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
There you go.
So today we're going to spend alittle bit of time talking about
the future, uh, the future ofdigital marketing, 20, 20 and
beyond, I think the year 20, 20,2021 and beyond the year 2020
really introduced something newwhere if you weren't digitally
adept, you quickly becameevident as the local governments
(04:27):
and ordinances started shuttingbusinesses down and putting out
orders.
Talk a little bit about what yousaw happening to small
businesses, who really, weren'tnot only thinking about today,
but also weren't thinking abouttomorrow as it relates to their
digital environment.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well, I mean, you know, look, I live in Southwest
Florida and, you know, inbetween going to different parks
and everything, of course, youdrive two main streets and I see
hundreds of these businesses,probably thousands of them that
they're going to go under.
If they're not already goingthrough bankruptcy, they're
(05:02):
going to go under the odds arepretty harsh right now with
COVID, whether you believe COVIDis a hoax or conspiracy, or you
believe it's real and you know,businesses are suffering well,
what can you do about that rightnow?
Every business.
I mean, let's, let's be honest,10 years ago, every business
(05:23):
should have been online andshould have been online,
aggressively and efficiently.
And what you see happening rightnow is that businesses that were
not set up to take paymentsonline to offer video
consultations or videoconferences, or to sell
(05:44):
downloads or online booking, ordon't have competitive SEO,
which for those who don't know,SEO is how you outright
competitors online in Google andbusinesses that weren't set
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Up for that before COVID are suffering and they're
suffering big time.
It's not too late to turn thingsaround.
I don't think, but yeah, it's,it's harsh.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It, it, it has been, I mean, it's been difficult for
a lot of businesses totransition, you know, the whole
concept of digitaltransformation, where do you
start?
What is, what is SEO?
Who do you trust, et cetera, etcetera, et cetera.
Start with some of the basicsbefore we, before we, you know,
future start really forecasting.
What are some of the basic coretenants of things that, that
(06:36):
business owners and, and I wouldsay small and mid-sized
businesses really need to thinkabout and really need to be
paying attention to for a, not a, not a best in class, but just
a good
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Digital presence.
Well, I really liked the pointsthat you brought up just a
minute ago.
So give yourself credit.
You just brought up some reallygood questions.
Remember you just said, who dothey trust?
How do they invest?
Where did they begin?
What did they, you it's that oldsaying, you don't know what you
(07:11):
don't know.
And most small businesses, theydon't know marketing.
They may think they do, or theymay have a nephew or some cousin
who's good at Excel orsomething.
So he'll go to Wix and he'llbuild me a website.
And now we'll be number one inGoogle.
I'll make a million dollars.
It doesn't work that way.
So I'd really like to touch onthe points that you brought up
(07:33):
and shame on me for having a penhere.
That's yellow and not blue.
Let me get rid of this rightnow.
But
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, you're looking at, you know, looking a little
off brand.
I mean, I don't think anybodylistening in is going to worry
about what your pin color is,however,
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Terrible, terrible.
But, um, no, it's my favoritecolor.
My website, dms.blue, myinitials, what I do, digital
marketing solutions and then myfavorite color.
But, um, and that's branding bythe way, but, okay.
How do you know how to budget?
Let's talk about that.
Cause I'd really, really like totouch on the points that you
(08:07):
brought up and then answer theseother questions, because I want
people who are watching orlistening to really get the
information they need to beinformed and not be a victim of
what's going on today.
There's no excuse for a businessto go under right now.
Everything you need to beprofitable is right there in
front of you.
If you just willing to takeadvantage of it and willing to
(08:28):
take a few steps forward andinvest just a little bit of
money, it doesn't have to be afortune, but it is what it is.
So how do you know how toinvest, really sell?
And by the way, I have all ofthis on my website, plain as
day, anybody can go there andread it for free.
You can purchase a course.
You can purchase a workbook.
(08:48):
There's plenty of stuff there.
Okay.
10 years ago, if you wanted toput ad in a local newspaper and
you wanted it to run for severalmonths, so you could start
generating some phone calls,hopefully what did it cost?
It wasn't free.
It wasn't super cheap.
(09:10):
It was maybe what, 1500, 1500,2,500, maybe three grand at the
most to put an ad in a newspaperand let it run for two, three
months.
They would never guaranteeresults.
And the minute you stop paying,they had stopped running.
Okay.
Billboards, same way.
(09:30):
A couple of grand to put abillboard up hell is probably
several 10, several tens ofthousands of dollars to put a
billboard up on or above aninterstate.
Same thing.
They can't guarantee results.
The minute you stop paying, theytake it down.
Okay, same as with the side of aboss.
And you see this in every citylaw firms love this.
(09:53):
That's how you budget.
It's really that simple.
You know, there's noprofessional in digital
marketing who will turn youaway.
If you say my budget is twogrand or three grand, they'll
say, okay, I can work with you.
Or that's 50% of what I'm goingto need based on your business
(10:15):
size and scope and market andwhat your expectations are.
But if you come to it with theattitude of what can I get for
free, I just need a website, butI want to be number one.
I don't want to spend any moneyor whatever.
Then you're not going to getvery far.
And that's what a lot ofbusiness owners, especially
small business owners or newbusiness owners do because they
(10:38):
don't know.
And they're not sure if theiridea for business is going to
work right now, as far as, howcan you tell if someone's
professional or not?
This is the, it's the same kindof thinking.
If you go to a doctor, you lookup reviews.
When you go into the doctor'soffice, you look to see, did
they have any kind ofcredential, any kind of
(10:59):
educational background?
Does their website lookprofessional or does it look
like something a 10 year oldbuilt?
You know, does it have ads allover it that doesn't look
professional?
Does it work on your phone?
Okay.
If it doesn't, then you have towonder, are they professional?
So I'm very transparent.
(11:20):
I put, uh, testimonials all overmy site from real people with
real names, you know, con realphotographs, pimples on your
faces, everything.
These are real people who don'tlook perfect.
They're not models.
And I always, if somebody askedme, can you give me names and
numbers for one or tworeferences?
I say, sure, I'm glad that youwant that.
(11:42):
So a professional would behappy.
They'd love to hear those typesof inquiries.
And what, what are some otherquestions that you had because I
really, really want to dig downdeep.
Well,
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I think, I think, you know, from, from a baseline,
it's a good baseline of, of, ofunderstanding.
I think one of the things thatwould be interesting to clarify
though, is when you saynewspaper ad or billboard, and
there's your budget, what do youmean by that?
As far as there's my budget, mybudget for what
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Your budget to get started with digital marketing
on a professional serious level,so that you can work with
someone who can spend the timewith you and not have to worry
about going onto the next quickflip cause let's get real.
I mean, if you go to fiverr.comor you go to Wix or Weebly or
one of these free do it yourselfor templates, you know, unless
(12:36):
you're already an expert in SEO,content marketing, e-commerce
design branding, and marketingit, unless you're already an
expert in all of these areastogether, you're not going to
know how to put them alltogether as a process.
And you're not going to know howto optimize that site so it can
move up the rankings in Google.
(12:59):
So what that means is there yougo.
When I say that, what I mean isthat's the beginning of a
realistic budget.
If somebody came to me and said,look, I own a mom and pop.
I want to have a, uh, aprofessional looking online
presence.
I wanted to work on mobiledevices so that it looks sleek.
(13:20):
I want to have at least somekind of basic, you know, local
SEO.
So I can try to outrankcompetitors locally.
And my budget is two or threegrand.
I would say, you know what, atleast they're trying to take
this seriously.
I can work with you.
I'll find a way to work withyou.
We may, you know, what are yourexpectations?
(13:41):
Do you have five differentlocations?
Do you have, you know, uh, uh,20 staff or a hundred staff, do
you want, you know, differentimage, galleries or clients
section, do you want, uh,employees to clock in through
the company website when theyshow up for work and attracts
her their hours, the more youwant, the more scale you want to
(14:05):
add, the more overhead you wantto reduce.
And you're talking aboutenterprise businesses where it's
50 or more employees.
If you want more of those typesof functionalities within,
obviously it's going to costmore because you have to do more
work and it's going to take moretime.
But if you invest with theexpectation of getting some
traction, if you say I'm willingto invest two or three grand in
(14:28):
order to make back double ortriple that six months later,
most people are happy to workwith you, and they're going to
want to give you that.
But it's when they come alongand say, well, my budget's$200
or something and it should beeasy.
It should be simple.
You should be able to do thisimmediately.
That's just not how it works.
It's not burger King businesses,not burger King.
(14:48):
You can't get it your way andyou can't get it immediately
every time for a dollar.
But you see that very commonlyand anybody who's been in
marketing has heard this orsales for them or digital
marketing.
So I hope that kind of,
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, no, I did.
I mean, I think, I think thathelps clarify a bit more.
It sounds like there's a, youknow, there's a, there's a
perspective here where I needsome level of, of web presence.
I need to have some level ofadvertising.
Sounds like I need to be payingattention to search.
Those are just kind of the base,the basics for folks that are
(15:25):
more advanced folks that are,you know, they've been doing
this awhile or, or, you know,they're running a larger
organization where they haveteam members that are doing
marketing forum.
What do you think's going tohappen in 2021 and beyond?
Cause there's a big shift thathappened in, Oh my gosh.
And all of a sudden we have tolean on email marketing really,
really heavily there's there'speople out there that are
(15:47):
flirting with text messagingthere, ads in making that a way
of doing B2B.
There are, there are, um,outbound farms now where
everybody in their cousin will,will get you 30 appointments a
month.
Like, what are the trends thatyou're seeing happen as it
relates to digital salesmarketing that we can expect to
see expand in in the next yearand maybe beyond,
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Well, the trends that you're going to see are you're
going for, and this is not forall businesses.
This is going to be forbusinesses and business owners
who are committed and takethemselves very seriously and
want to be competitive.
Believe it or not.
Not every business wants to becompetitive.
(16:31):
Not every business wants togrow.
They may say that, but thentheir actions will be lie.
Uh, what they say, and I've seenthis for decades.
And, um, the, the changes thatyou're going to see is that by
the time COVID is done runningRashad through the economy,
(16:51):
through politics, through ourpopulation, you're going to see
that more businesses than weever drempt are going to be
gone.
And those businesses who areonline and aggressively online
will be the ones that you go to,whether you like it or not.
(17:11):
And there's going to be much,many, many fewer mom and pops,
many fewer local businesses.
And this is not what I want, butthis is what's going to happen
because it's happening rightnow.
And all you have to do is lookat Bloomberg and Forbes and Inc
magazine and CNN and all theother news outlets to see that
(17:32):
this is happening.
And, um, you know, Google is theGoogle is the standard bearer
for search because they do it inan organized, deliberate manner.
They changed their algorithmsevery six months or so.
So it's, it's very, verydifficult for SEO specialists to
(17:54):
really get a solid grip on SEOnow, uh, because Google, uh, is
changing their algorithm soregularly.
And so many people are trying tofinagle it and try, try to find
ways to hack it.
So what you're going to see ismore and more people creating
more content more often moreregularly.
(18:17):
I'm certainly not immune tothat.
I mean, I don't have anywherenear the amount of content that
I would like to have, but a oneperson I'm semiretired now.
So on any given day, I may writea new blog post or make a new
video or podcast, or I may justsay, I'm going to go sit outside
and read for a couple of hours.
But for the business owner,that's committed, you're going
(18:41):
to see much more emphasis oncontent production.
And that's across the boardpodcasting, just like what
you're doing, a video creation,because the number two search
engine in the world is YouTubeis I'm sure you know, and that's
also owned by hello, Google.
So for every, and I call this,the golden rule of marketing is
(19:07):
multiple formats.
So this is called content.
Re-purposing so more and morebusinesses are going to be doing
this.
And those who can't do this are,should say, refuse to do it
because everybody can, youeither have the time.
You don't have the time.
And if you don't have the timeyou bring someone in.
(19:29):
So content re-purposing isbasically you write a blog post,
good for you.
You've got a blog post.
That's great.
Now you can create aninfographic based on that blog
post.
So now you have a visual imagethat you can also use for sites
like Pinterest and show yourinfographic on other social
(19:49):
media sites.
Right now you take your blogposts that you just RO you could
read it, just read it verbally,uh, as a podcast change, it's
the terms and hashtags around.
So you're changing the SELaround.
Now.
You have right image a podcast.
Now do a video of your blog post.
(20:11):
You can just look into thecamera and just read it like a
talking head, or you couldinterview someone and try to
frame a discussion around thesubject matter of the blog post,
right?
And now you've got the video.
So you've taken one piece ofmarketing content or collateral
and create two pole forms okay.
(20:34):
Of marketing content, just fromthat one.
Now, imagine if you do thatevery day for 30 days, you're
going to have a tremendousamount of material and the more
complimentary or overlappingyour SEO is, the more likely it
is to hit in Google.
And, um, I'll tell you a storyabout SEO, if it's okay with
(20:58):
you, absolutely go for it.
Okay.
I don't know how your time is.
Uh, this was maybe 10 years agoand I was in Denver, Colorado.
I was very, very active and Iwas between agency positions.
So I was freelancing as anindependent contractor, and I'll
(21:21):
never forget this.
There was a competitor of mine,but we were also friends because
he was a very, very nice guy.
And even though we werecompetitors, we were unfriendly
terms, you know, and he calledme up one day out of the blue.
And he said, you beautifulblankety blank, blank, ex
expletive.
And I said, well, who, the blankexpletive is this.
(21:43):
I had an idea.
It was because the way he wastalking and his tone of voice,
right?
He said, you're number one atGoogle.
How the F did you do that?
And I said, really, you'renothing made, um, not literally,
but figuratively.
And he said, well, how did youdo it?
And I said, well, I didn't know,because I don't look at Google
(22:05):
every day is too stressful.
So anyway, he told me I wasnumber one at Google, for web
design and digital marketing inDenver, Colorado, how did I do
it?
And I told them how I did it.
And I said, what I did was I wastinkering with my website every
day.
(22:25):
Sometimes multiple times everyday I was writing a new blog
post every day about, uh,upcoming workshops or seminars
that I was conducting in theDenver area, the Denver tech
center area, or in other areasof Colorado, I was blogging
about it.
(22:46):
I was podcasting about it.
I was also changing theterminology on different pages
so that they were more local.
And I was talking more about thelocal scene in local digital
marketing goings on.
So everything that I was doinghad to do with more local SEO,
more local events, and tyingeverything in to web design or
(23:09):
marketing or SEL.
And after about 60 days, itstarted ticking up the search
results in Google, which that wecall SERPs search engine result
pages.
So it was moving up and shortlyafter his phone call, I started
getting phone calls, emails likeevery 15 minutes for about two
(23:30):
weeks.
And it honestly, it got to beoverwhelming because yes, I was
getting more phone calls andmore emails, but they weren't
all from people I really wantedto work with.
They were from people who werecalling and saying, how much is
a website?
How much is e-commerce?
How much is web design?
(23:51):
How much, how much our launch,everything.
So they were looking at what Iwas doing as one in done
physical items and not asbeginning of process.
So I'm explaining, andre-explaining this.
So of all of the phone calls andemails that were coming through,
(24:12):
I had a handful of legitimateclients on any given day or
week.
So I realized I had to startdoing more of what the agencies
were doing.
So it's not enough to just getphone calls and emails, but you
want to get phone calls andemails from qualified prospects.
People who want to work with youwho have money and are willing
(24:35):
to invest it in order to getmore in return.
But that's something I wantedto, to illustrate how SEO works
in very basic terms.
And there's obviously a lot moreyou can do.
So the more organized anddeliberate you are, the more
effective you're going to be.
(24:56):
So sorry to go off on a tangentlike that.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
It's, uh, it's, it's fun.
Whenever you get to find outstories about how people, you
know, climb to the number onesearch result, and then, you
know, the, the by-product ofwhat that means.
I mean, there've been beengroups that I've worked with,
who they'll rank number one forcertain elements, but those
elements really are, are drivingtraffic to their site, not
necessarily qualified traffic orpeople who would end up buying
(25:22):
they're buying their wares.
A good example of that is, youknow, years ago, worked with an
organization who they had, theywould write blogs almost
religiously, uh, twice a week ontopics related to safety
workplace safety.
Yeah.
But the information they soldwas basically a version of dun
(25:44):
and Bradstreet's Liga a datalist, right.
There was information and theydidn't line up, but they had a
boatload of traffic that wouldcome to the site, hoping that
somebody was looking for safetywould also want data in, in that
bridge was just too far apart.
One person explained to me, hejust said, you know, if you're a
beer company, don't go out in,in write about cars.
(26:07):
Or if you're, you know, ifyou're a software company don't
grow right about beers, like itdoesn't, it doesn't translate,
make sure the content and thingsthat you're writing about are
relative to the type of personand the type of customer you
want to see come through yourbaskets.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Absolutely abs a frequent Luli.
Because when I was in Denver, Iwas very active.
I mean, like I said, I'mteaching boot camps, I'm
teaching workshops.
I, um, I did work, uh, throughthe, the WordPress foundation,
which is a, not the nonprofitarm of WordPress, which is owned
by a company called automatic.
So I would teach all kinds ofworkshops and boot through
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Their groups on meetup.com, um, teaching other
boot camps and workshops on aweekly basis.
Every weekend I would dosomething and sometimes a week
evenings evenings during theweek.
So I'm also cross pollinating,all of that marketing with these
groups and these presentationsand the more I focused in on
(27:08):
WordPress.
Well, I attracted people whowanted to know more about
WordPress.
The problem with that was I wasattracting a lot of people who
are all do it yourselfers.
So they would never invest apenny.
They would never invest 10 centsin their business because
everything had to be free.
So I had all these people comingand saying, can you help me fix
(27:28):
my broken site?
But it has to be free or, youknow,$10 or whatever.
And I'm thinking these arebusinesses that are never going
to get anywhere.
So over time I changed that andsaid, no, I want to only work
with businesses that areenterprise level 50 or more
employees.
And now that I'm older and kindof, semi-retired kind of, sort
(27:50):
of, I only really want to workwith business owners who are
committed, who really take itseriously.
And that's a big determinant,you know, and you can usually
tell after about 10 seconds.
So the first thing they talkabout is money.
We're probably not a good fit,but if you talk about my
(28:12):
business is going under, I'm notgetting any phone calls.
I need to turn that around.
Now you're a good fit.
Cause you're, you're, you have abusiness you care about, but
anyway, let me let you go.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
I look, and I, you obviously, you're, you're kind
of on the tangent there, as itrelates to finding the right fit
for, for who you have.
But, you know, expanding thatout with this digital
transformation that's coming.
I mean, today there was a, therewas an article or an article or
a video shown by Bostonelectronics of a dancing robot.
(28:50):
The, the Tik TOK craze is takingover the world with, you know,
everybody's going to have 15seconds of fame.
It's no longer 15 minutes.
It's 15 seconds with your techdog or your Instagram.
What are the trends that we'reseeing happening and how it's
going to force businesses to dothings differently as we move
(29:10):
beyond 2021, because you saidmom and pops are going away, but
don't, they have a competitiveadvantage because they don't
have corporate brand standardsthat they have to meet or, or
shareholders that they have to,
Speaker 2 (29:23):
They can, they can, it doesn't mean that they do.
So.
I mean, you and I both knowthere's how many small business
owners out there who are outthere right now, who don't have
websites, who don't havewebsites are mobile responsive,
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Who aren't using, e-commerce who aren't on
YouTube, who aren't podcasting.
They're not doing everythingthat they can do.
And it's either because theydon't have the resources or they
don't care, or maybe they don'tknow how, or they're trying to
do everything themselves forfree.
And, um, you know, I, I totallyget the challenges that are upon
(30:07):
the American business ownerright now.
I totally get it.
And my heart goes out to them.
But you, you, so you have topick your battles and like what
we were saying with SEO and likewhat we were also saying with
not every customer or everyclient is going to be an ideal
fit for you.
You've gotta be very selectiveand very deliberate with what
(30:28):
you do, or are you going to gounder right now?
There are sharks in the water.
There's a Wolf at every door.
If you're a business owner rightnow, you know, when COVID first
was going through this area, youknow, I remember telling my
wife, I would love to ordergroceries locally and have a
local POB or local mom and popor a local grocery store
(30:50):
delivered to us.
I would prefer that I couldn'tfind a single one that did not a
single one.
I read about a local pub.
That was, uh, because nobodywanted to go into inside the
pub.
So they were offering like 20pounds of pasta, 20 pounds of
chicken, you know, discountedrates.
(31:11):
And you could go pick it up bycurbside pickup, but you
couldn't do it through theirwebsite.
So you'd have to physically, youknow, call them up on your
phone, give them your creditcard number and then go get in
your car and go pick it up.
I mean, why could you partnerwith Uber?
But Uber eats with door dashwith any one of these companies
(31:31):
and offer home delivery.
Why couldn't you have a modernwebsite that works on your
phone?
Why could you have e-commerce soyou could take payments online.
Why couldn't you do thesethings?
Because he didn't want to that'sthe thing.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Do you think it was want, or do you think it was
money?
Like, I may think don't youthink that some, some of the,
some of the apprehension inmodernizing or going through
digital transformation, doesn'tsome of that come with, I'm
afraid of the investment,because I, I picked the wrong
vendor the first time to do X,Y, or Z, or I don't understand
where my audience is anymore.
(32:05):
Like, what is it?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Is it, they don't have any money or, or flat
broken.
I don't have any money, butlike, you know, but let's break
that down then.
Okay.
Let's say for the sake ofmetaphor that you have a huge
tumor on top of your head.
Okay.
Now, of course, I don't wantthat, but let's say that anybody
(32:28):
listening or watching, that'swhat you have.
If that's happened to you,you're going to go to the
doctor.
You're not going to call thedoctor and say, I know what ails
mean.
I know how to resolve theproblem.
I know how much it should costme.
(32:48):
I know what medicines you shouldprescribe and how you should do
your surgery.
And I'll tell you what tools youshould use.
And I'll tell you the deadlinethat you should have this all
done by.
You know, if you went to thedoctor and said that they would
laugh you out of their offices,they wouldn't hear it.
And yet that is what happensevery single day.
(33:12):
When you are a digital marketerlike myself, and you see RFPs
request for proposals, wherethey're telling you, this is how
much it should be, this is whattools you should use.
This is the deadline that has tobe, everything has to be done my
way within my budget.
And this is my problem.
And this is how you solve it.
They're not asking you for help.
(33:34):
You're telling you, this is howyou need to do it.
And this is how much you shouldmake.
That's insane.
And then they wonder why they'regoing out of business, or they
can't reach any new customers.
Well, you did it to yourself.
Now, as far as the businessowner who doesn't know what to
do, you know, look, I'm notBuddha, but if anybody has a
(33:56):
question, they can email me.
I offered this on every podcastthat I go on online, Facebook,
Twitter, LinkedIn.
And I always tell people, if youhave a question about digital
marketing, anything, as long asyou're not selling me some kind
of spam nonsense, I'll give youan honest response and I'll try
to send you a link to a blogpost I've written on this
(34:18):
subject.
And if I don't have one, I'llsend you a link to someone
else's.
So I'll give you an honestanswer.
And I don't care whether youwork with me or not.
I've never had any taker, not asingle one.
Okay.
And it's because they don't wantto know, or they think they
already know.
But the whole thing iseverything that you need is
(34:40):
right there in front of you fora few thousand bucks, you'd get
started.
You work with a professional.
How do you tell a piece of,
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I feel like that the reason that people don't think
about when the freeconsultations or contact you
with any, any question has lessto do with, they'll take you up
on it or not.
And more to do with, they don'teven know where to start in
asking questions.
They don't know.
Are we starting at, uh, are westarting at digital marketing
(35:09):
one Oh one where it's like here,this is what search paid search
is, or are we talking abouthere's how you fine tune Google
ads?
Or are we talking about here'show you do email marketing and
target your automation campaignson the back end to drive
lifetime customer value?
Is, is it, is it more about,they don't know where to start
(35:31):
or is it more about they don'ttrust the, the consultation not
to be a sales?
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Well, you know, as far as not trusting the sale,
the consultation not to be asales call, you know, I always
say, you know, there's nostrings attached.
Um, you know, if you ask me aquestion online, there's no way
that it could be a sales call inthe first place, because you
send me a question.
(35:59):
And if it's a legitimate, honestquestion, I'll send you a short
response.
Here's your answer?
I do it on Quora all the time,same as on LinkedIn and Twitter.
And I've had several people onTwitter, uh, emailed me
questions.
Uh, so, you know, I justanswered very directly.
(36:20):
I, and I just tell them if youwork with me, great, if you
don't, I'm just, I'm still goingto keep on trucking.
It doesn't matter.
You know, I'm just trying to bea legitimately helpful, honest,
um, person here, but, you know,that's all you can do, um, and
be transparent.
And I think that differentiatesme from the magical gurus that
(36:44):
you see out there tellingeverybody, you can make a
million dollars overnight withno money.
You're not going to, you know,and if you hustle endlessly with
no organized plan, do you're notgoing to get anywhere either.
So I'm not Gary V and I'm not amagical guru guy.
Uh, you know, just somebody withthis experience and they can
(37:05):
take it or they can leave it asthey may wish.
But for those who are sincerelyinterested, I try to be as open
and as honest and asforthcoming, as helpful as I
can, because I believe in beinga moral person now, um, as far
as not knowing what to ask youbegin with the first gap.
(37:25):
So, you know, I'm not going toshoot somebody down for asking
me what is SEO, or how does SEOwork, or, you know, something
really basic.
I'll give them a flat, you know,answer and just say, now, now
that you know that it's not anitem, it's a process.
(37:48):
It's not immediate.
It's not overnight, it's notfree.
It's not$50.
You have to commit.
I can't do anything for anybodyif I don't talk to them first.
And I, you know, and I mean,honestly, I put a lot of this,
um, on these free do it yourselfor templates that I really
(38:08):
really think do, uh, businessowners have profound disservice
because you know, this idea thatyou could get something of great
value for nothing is not how itworks.
And they all will work with youand give you more, but triple
the cost of what you would getif you were to work with someone
(38:28):
independently.
So like the hosting is probablythree to four times more than it
would be if you were to go to
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Blue host or GoDaddy yourself, you know?
So over time they nickel anddime you, you know, so if you
want help with SEO, well, that'sgoing to be$50 an hour.
So maybe they think it's a greatdeal, you know, but after four
or five hours, are you going tohave the results that you
wanted?
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Uh, look, I, there was, uh, there bills and I'm not
gonna, I'm not gonna pretend toown this.
Steve Wiedemann, um, who doesSEO consulting in California?
Actually, he, he does it acrossthe States.
He has a really great statement.
And he says, if you think hiringan expert is expensive, try
hiring an amateur.
That's right.
(39:17):
You're going to spend three,four, you know, you might spend
20 to 30 grand using an amateurbecause you had to redo
something five, six, seven,eight times versus spending 10
grand with an expert.
And it was the highest quote tobegin with.
But there wasn't all of thechange orders on the backside
because you had an expertactually doing it with you on
the front end.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Right.
And I've never turned down aclient, uh, for that matter, who
offered me, um, much less thanthat.
You know, when I worked formarketing agencies, okay, the
marketing agency, they cannotwork with you.
Most of them cannot work withyou.
If your budget is below 10grand, why is that?
(39:57):
Because they have infrastructurethat they have to pay out of
pocket.
They have to pay the, lease, theutility.
They have to pay theiremployees, EHR, their legal
department, and all of thisinfrastructure.
Some agencies will talk to youif your budget is five grand,
but now much lower than that.
They're not going to take youseriously.
So when I worked for agencies, Iwould pick up the clients who
(40:21):
didn't have the budget toqualify, to be taken seriously
by the agency.
So if some, if, if a businesssaid, well, my budget is five
grand, but I need a beautifulcostume site.
That's going to work on mobile.
I want to try to get to benumber one in Google for local
businesses of my type.
I need some help writing somecontent, you know, could you
(40:43):
help you with two or three blogposts and setting up some social
media accounts?
I want to have e-commerce so Ican take payments for five or
six types of services or five orsix types of five or six items.
I'll say, well, five grand is alittle bit low for what you
want, but you know what?
(41:05):
Let's talk about it and see ifwe can work out a plan and some
structure and some organizationto this.
And then if after we talk, Ireally feel like I can knock
this out of the park for you andbe proud of the work that I do.
I'll do it.
So we have a couple ofconversation through zoom or
through Skype, or what have you.
(41:25):
And we work it out.
So where are there is a will,there's a way.
And that quote is absolutelycorrect.
In fact, I, I have that samequote on one of my blog posts,
where I talk about budget and Igo over that with infographics
and everything.
Cause I've heard that before aswell.
(41:46):
You know?
I mean, how many times have wetaken cars?
You know, if you, somebody who'sbeen driving for a long time and
you, in fact, I'll tell youthis, you know, I, I remember I
had a friend who went and boughta, um, and it was a, like a
hobby motorcycle.
He paid 50 bucks for it.
And I remember laughing at himand he was a really, really big
(42:08):
guy.
So I didn't want to laugh too.
Obviously, you know, we werefriends and everything.
So I just said, that's going tolast you about one week.
If you're lucky, actually itlasted about three or four days
and he was furious.
And I just said, well, what didyou expect?
And the guy's not taking yourcalls and everything.
(42:29):
But this happens every singleday, all across America with
business owners every day, we'retrying to get something for
nothing.
I remembered there was anonprofit or organization, and
this is the ultimate irony.
Okay.
This one will make you slap yourforehead.
This was a woman who contactedme and said, I want to start a
marketing agency, specificallyoffering web design services to
(42:53):
nonprofits.
And I said, okay, do you havefive Oh one C3 nonprofit status
yet?
She said, no, I don't need it.
I don't want to talk about it.
I just want the website.
Do you have any content yet?
No, I don't.
Well, what is your SEO should belocal because all businesses
start local.
She disagreed.
I said, well, what's yourbudget?
(43:14):
She said$200.
I said, you're kidding me.
She said, no, it's 200 and I'mnot going a penny above it.
So I said, okay, well, based onwhat you described to me, I
don't think we're a good fit,but I wish you all the luck in
the world.
She told me what her domain namewas going to be.
And I checked it two weekslater, you know what happened?
(43:37):
There's nothing there.
I wrote on my calendar threemonths later to check it,
nothing there nothing everhappened.
She probably had a website for acouple of days.
You know, it's, it's, it's partof the, it's part of the
adventure.
You, you have to be willing toput in what you want to get out.
(44:01):
You know, just like, you know,weightlifting being physically
fit, writing a book, starting abusiness.
The more you put in the more youwill get out.
And as far as financially, youwant to budget to begin just as
if you were putting an ad in alocal newspaper or a tabloid or
on a radio station.
(44:22):
So the more returns oninvestment you want, the more
you're willing to invest.
So for print newspaper, 1500 tostart, and this was 10 years ago
to around three grand that's tobe taken seriously.
If you want to put an ad on aradio station, we know it's
(44:44):
going to be probably triplethat.
If you want to put an ad on TV,it's going to be much, much
higher than that.
And now Hulu will let you putads on their TV programs now.
And certainly YouTube will letyou put ads on their programs as
well as we know.
And you can look at thosebudgets and easily get an idea.
(45:06):
And that's how you can kind ofget a blueprint for estimating
realistic budgets.
But if somebody were to come tome and say, you know my budget
3000, I'm not going to turn thatdown, turn that away.
I'll say let's find out morebecause at least it's a start.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
Well, and I think, you know, I think the thing that
we've, we've, we've highlightedor you've highlighted well today
is, is that you've got to start.
You got to get moving.
You can't let the digitaltransformation that's happening
in the marketplace, pass you by.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
No.
And do you know the term digitaltransformation, as opposed to
digital marketing, a lot ofpeople get lost in the weeds of
technical jargon.
Like, what is SEO?
What is content marketing?
What is e-commerce basicallydigital transformation means in
very basic terms.
It means you're transforming abusiness using digital media and
(46:03):
online marketing.
So that's why I tell people,look, if you want to get
technical, what am I?
I'm an enterprise digitalmarketing specialist because I
take all these tools and Ibundle it all together and see,
now how can we take yourbusiness and put rockets on it?
How can we turn your businessinto a lean mean machine and
(46:24):
give it some, you know, reallysuper sharp teeth and make it
competitive in this jungle outthere.
And, uh, so when people refer todigital transformation, that's
really what it means.
You know, using everythingthat's out there to make this
business more competitive andmore, more agile, good stuff.
(46:49):
I hope so
Speaker 3 (46:50):
Well for those, for those that are listening, if
they want to, they want to get ahold of you.
What's the best way for them toreach out to you?
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Well, it's really easy.
I mean, you could go to Googleand just type it, DMS dot Ballou
.
You can go to your address barfor whatever browser you use and
type in dms.blue.
And you can find me that way.
That's great.
And you can go to Twitter andFacebook and type in the same
thing.
Sorry.
(47:17):
No.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Oh, you're quite all right.
We want to thank you so muchfor, for being on today and
sharing not only your thoughtson digital marketing strategy,
how organizations can transitionways to prepare and future-proof
the business.
It's, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Well, I really appreciate your time and I
appreciate the time of anybodywatching or listening.
And sorry.
If I went off on a tangent,there it's a subject that I feel
very passionate about.
So it's a subject I couldreally, really talk all day long
about, obviously.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
That's great.
Uh, thanks guys for tuning in,make sure you like follow or
subscribe.
You've been listening to thesummit podcast with your host
Kyle hammer, and until nextweek, keep grinding, keep
growing, keep learning and keepmoving.
Make 20, 21 your best year yet.
Ooh, welcome to the summit.
A podcast focused on bringingyou the knowledge and insights
for industry leaders.
I'm your host Kyle hammer, andI'm on a mission to help you
exceed your potential.
As a sales guy, turned marketer,I am passionate about building
sustainable businesses.
And if there's one thing I'velearned in my 20 year career,
that you won't find an overnightgrowth scheme, a shortcut to
success or way to hack yourselfto the top.
(00:23):
Nope.
Success is the by-product ofhard work, great relationships
and deep understanding done overand over.
We're here to help you unlockthat success with some secrets
from other people.
One conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back to another episode of the summit.
I'm your host Kyle hammer.
Today's guest on the summit isDavid summer flick David,
welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me, Kyle.
How's it going today, man?
I can't complain.
And if I did, nobody would care.
So there you are.
So you look like you're doingokay.
And I had fun talking to youbefore we started.
(00:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Now for those of you who don'tknow, David David is a, uh, well
self professed Jack of alltrades master of none digital
marketing, extraordinary.
Uh, David spent his timestudying web design in the early
nineties.
He's really got a background increative writing in journalism,
(01:18):
but across the, uh, th the stepsof his career, he's taken
progress in to look at what'sgoing on with business owners,
put together creative ways inwhich to solve things and
ultimately helps set them up forsuccess.
Long-term if you don't findDavid in the middle of a
presentation or helping somebodytransform their, their business
(01:39):
digitally, you'll find himhanging out with his wife, doing
some air retired activities likeworking out, or maybe bumming
around on the beach.
Did I capture just abouteverything, David?
That's pretty good.
There be anything fun you'd liketo add.
Um, you know, I, I love workingwith, uh, business owners who
(02:01):
want to turn things around andthat's, it, it requires a high
level of commitment andrealistic expectations
organization.
So as you might expect, it's,it's rare, but businesses now
need it more than ever before.
Probably in our nation'shistory.
(02:22):
I mean, certainly like withinthe last two, um, last hundred
years, you know, uh, I like tohave fun, but you know, when I
look at the news and I seewhat's going on in terms of
business and what's happening tothe business owners to small
business owners, to mom and popsright now, they're getting
crushed.
(02:43):
And, um, that's why I want to beon podcasts.
That's why I want to helpbusiness owners.
And it's a passion of mine.
I love to read.
I love to enjoy life with mywife and relax and everything.
Um, but I also see what's onand, you know, I want to do
everything I can to try to help.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
That's great.
You know, having a servant'sheart is a, is never a bad
thing, especially when it comesto helping out, uh, other
businesses in the market.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah.
I'm very passionate about it.
And, um, you know, in additionto this 20 plus years experience
working for different marketingagencies, I was also certified
small business mentor for anorganization called score, which
is a division of the us smallbusiness administration.
So I went through all thetraining and everything, which,
(03:31):
you know, I had already had, butI went through all of that.
So I could be a mentor for them.
And often on, it was like 10years.
And I must've talked to a coupleof hundred small business owners
and nonprofit administrators andstartup founders.
And, you know, you see patternsafter a while, and that's why
(03:53):
I'm here talking with you.
I want to do everything I can totry to be a positive, you know,
positive force when it comes tobusiness.
That's great.
And, and sales and marketing.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
There you go.
So today we're going to spend alittle bit of time talking about
the future, uh, the future ofdigital marketing, 20, 20 and
beyond, I think the year 20, 20,2021 and beyond the year 2020
really introduced something newwhere if you weren't digitally
adept, you quickly becameevident as the local governments
(04:27):
and ordinances started shuttingbusinesses down and putting out
orders.
Talk a little bit about what yousaw happening to small
businesses, who really, weren'tnot only thinking about today,
but also weren't thinking abouttomorrow as it relates to their
digital environment.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well, I mean, you know, look, I live in Southwest
Florida and, you know, inbetween going to different parks
and everything, of course, youdrive two main streets and I see
hundreds of these businesses,probably thousands of them that
they're going to go under.
If they're not already goingthrough bankruptcy, they're
(05:02):
going to go under the odds arepretty harsh right now with
COVID, whether you believe COVIDis a hoax or conspiracy, or you
believe it's real and you know,businesses are suffering well,
what can you do about that rightnow?
Every business.
I mean, let's, let's be honest,10 years ago, every business
(05:23):
should have been online andshould have been online,
aggressively and efficiently.
And what you see happening rightnow is that businesses that were
not set up to take paymentsonline to offer video
consultations or videoconferences, or to sell
(05:44):
downloads or online booking, ordon't have competitive SEO,
which for those who don't know,SEO is how you outright
competitors online in Google andbusinesses that weren't set
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Up for that before COVID are suffering and they're
suffering big time.
It's not too late to turn thingsaround.
I don't think, but yeah, it's,it's harsh.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It, it, it has been, I mean, it's been difficult for
a lot of businesses totransition, you know, the whole
concept of digitaltransformation, where do you
start?
What is, what is SEO?
Who do you trust, et cetera, etcetera, et cetera.
Start with some of the basicsbefore we, before we, you know,
future start really forecasting.
What are some of the basic coretenants of things that, that
(06:36):
business owners and, and I wouldsay small and mid-sized
businesses really need to thinkabout and really need to be
paying attention to for a, not a, not a best in class, but just
a good
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Digital presence.
Well, I really liked the pointsthat you brought up just a
minute ago.
So give yourself credit.
You just brought up some reallygood questions.
Remember you just said, who dothey trust?
How do they invest?
Where did they begin?
What did they, you it's that oldsaying, you don't know what you
(07:11):
don't know.
And most small businesses, theydon't know marketing.
They may think they do, or theymay have a nephew or some cousin
who's good at Excel orsomething.
So he'll go to Wix and he'llbuild me a website.
And now we'll be number one inGoogle.
I'll make a million dollars.
It doesn't work that way.
So I'd really like to touch onthe points that you brought up
(07:33):
and shame on me for having a penhere.
That's yellow and not blue.
Let me get rid of this rightnow.
But
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, you're looking at, you know, looking a little
off brand.
I mean, I don't think anybodylistening in is going to worry
about what your pin color is,however,
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Terrible, terrible.
But, um, no, it's my favoritecolor.
My website, dms.blue, myinitials, what I do, digital
marketing solutions and then myfavorite color.
But, um, and that's branding bythe way, but, okay.
How do you know how to budget?
Let's talk about that.
Cause I'd really, really like totouch on the points that you
(08:07):
brought up and then answer theseother questions, because I want
people who are watching orlistening to really get the
information they need to beinformed and not be a victim of
what's going on today.
There's no excuse for a businessto go under right now.
Everything you need to beprofitable is right there in
front of you.
If you just willing to takeadvantage of it and willing to
(08:28):
take a few steps forward andinvest just a little bit of
money, it doesn't have to be afortune, but it is what it is.
So how do you know how toinvest, really sell?
And by the way, I have all ofthis on my website, plain as
day, anybody can go there andread it for free.
You can purchase a course.
You can purchase a workbook.
(08:48):
There's plenty of stuff there.
Okay.
10 years ago, if you wanted toput ad in a local newspaper and
you wanted it to run for severalmonths, so you could start
generating some phone calls,hopefully what did it cost?
It wasn't free.
It wasn't super cheap.
(09:10):
It was maybe what, 1500, 1500,2,500, maybe three grand at the
most to put an ad in a newspaperand let it run for two, three
months.
They would never guaranteeresults.
And the minute you stop paying,they had stopped running.
Okay.
Billboards, same way.
(09:30):
A couple of grand to put abillboard up hell is probably
several 10, several tens ofthousands of dollars to put a
billboard up on or above aninterstate.
Same thing.
They can't guarantee results.
The minute you stop paying, theytake it down.
Okay, same as with the side of aboss.
And you see this in every citylaw firms love this.
(09:53):
That's how you budget.
It's really that simple.
You know, there's noprofessional in digital
marketing who will turn youaway.
If you say my budget is twogrand or three grand, they'll
say, okay, I can work with you.
Or that's 50% of what I'm goingto need based on your business
(10:15):
size and scope and market andwhat your expectations are.
But if you come to it with theattitude of what can I get for
free, I just need a website, butI want to be number one.
I don't want to spend any moneyor whatever.
Then you're not going to getvery far.
And that's what a lot ofbusiness owners, especially
small business owners or newbusiness owners do because they
(10:38):
don't know.
And they're not sure if theiridea for business is going to
work right now, as far as, howcan you tell if someone's
professional or not?
This is the, it's the same kindof thinking.
If you go to a doctor, you lookup reviews.
When you go into the doctor'soffice, you look to see, did
they have any kind ofcredential, any kind of
(10:59):
educational background?
Does their website lookprofessional or does it look
like something a 10 year oldbuilt?
You know, does it have ads allover it that doesn't look
professional?
Does it work on your phone?
Okay.
If it doesn't, then you have towonder, are they professional?
So I'm very transparent.
(11:20):
I put, uh, testimonials all overmy site from real people with
real names, you know, con realphotographs, pimples on your
faces, everything.
These are real people who don'tlook perfect.
They're not models.
And I always, if somebody askedme, can you give me names and
numbers for one or tworeferences?
I say, sure, I'm glad that youwant that.
(11:42):
So a professional would behappy.
They'd love to hear those typesof inquiries.
And what, what are some otherquestions that you had because I
really, really want to dig downdeep.
Well,
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I think, I think, you know, from, from a baseline,
it's a good baseline of, of, ofunderstanding.
I think one of the things thatwould be interesting to clarify
though, is when you saynewspaper ad or billboard, and
there's your budget, what do youmean by that?
As far as there's my budget, mybudget for what
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Your budget to get started with digital marketing
on a professional serious level,so that you can work with
someone who can spend the timewith you and not have to worry
about going onto the next quickflip cause let's get real.
I mean, if you go to fiverr.comor you go to Wix or Weebly or
one of these free do it yourselfor templates, you know, unless
(12:36):
you're already an expert in SEO,content marketing, e-commerce
design branding, and marketingit, unless you're already an
expert in all of these areastogether, you're not going to
know how to put them alltogether as a process.
And you're not going to know howto optimize that site so it can
move up the rankings in Google.
(12:59):
So what that means is there yougo.
When I say that, what I mean isthat's the beginning of a
realistic budget.
If somebody came to me and said,look, I own a mom and pop.
I want to have a, uh, aprofessional looking online
presence.
I wanted to work on mobiledevices so that it looks sleek.
(13:20):
I want to have at least somekind of basic, you know, local
SEO.
So I can try to outrankcompetitors locally.
And my budget is two or threegrand.
I would say, you know what, atleast they're trying to take
this seriously.
I can work with you.
I'll find a way to work withyou.
We may, you know, what are yourexpectations?
(13:41):
Do you have five differentlocations?
Do you have, you know, uh, uh,20 staff or a hundred staff, do
you want, you know, differentimage, galleries or clients
section, do you want, uh,employees to clock in through
the company website when theyshow up for work and attracts
her their hours, the more youwant, the more scale you want to
(14:05):
add, the more overhead you wantto reduce.
And you're talking aboutenterprise businesses where it's
50 or more employees.
If you want more of those typesof functionalities within,
obviously it's going to costmore because you have to do more
work and it's going to take moretime.
But if you invest with theexpectation of getting some
traction, if you say I'm willingto invest two or three grand in
(14:28):
order to make back double ortriple that six months later,
most people are happy to workwith you, and they're going to
want to give you that.
But it's when they come alongand say, well, my budget's$200
or something and it should beeasy.
It should be simple.
You should be able to do thisimmediately.
That's just not how it works.
It's not burger King businesses,not burger King.
(14:48):
You can't get it your way andyou can't get it immediately
every time for a dollar.
But you see that very commonlyand anybody who's been in
marketing has heard this orsales for them or digital
marketing.
So I hope that kind of,
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, no, I did.
I mean, I think, I think thathelps clarify a bit more.
It sounds like there's a, youknow, there's a, there's a
perspective here where I needsome level of, of web presence.
I need to have some level ofadvertising.
Sounds like I need to be payingattention to search.
Those are just kind of the base,the basics for folks that are
(15:25):
more advanced folks that are,you know, they've been doing
this awhile or, or, you know,they're running a larger
organization where they haveteam members that are doing
marketing forum.
What do you think's going tohappen in 2021 and beyond?
Cause there's a big shift thathappened in, Oh my gosh.
And all of a sudden we have tolean on email marketing really,
really heavily there's there'speople out there that are
(15:47):
flirting with text messagingthere, ads in making that a way
of doing B2B.
There are, there are, um,outbound farms now where
everybody in their cousin will,will get you 30 appointments a
month.
Like, what are the trends thatyou're seeing happen as it
relates to digital salesmarketing that we can expect to
see expand in in the next yearand maybe beyond,
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Well, the trends that you're going to see are you're
going for, and this is not forall businesses.
This is going to be forbusinesses and business owners
who are committed and takethemselves very seriously and
want to be competitive.
Believe it or not.
Not every business wants to becompetitive.
(16:31):
Not every business wants togrow.
They may say that, but thentheir actions will be lie.
Uh, what they say, and I've seenthis for decades.
And, um, the, the changes thatyou're going to see is that by
the time COVID is done runningRashad through the economy,
(16:51):
through politics, through ourpopulation, you're going to see
that more businesses than weever drempt are going to be
gone.
And those businesses who areonline and aggressively online
will be the ones that you go to,whether you like it or not.
(17:11):
And there's going to be much,many, many fewer mom and pops,
many fewer local businesses.
And this is not what I want, butthis is what's going to happen
because it's happening rightnow.
And all you have to do is lookat Bloomberg and Forbes and Inc
magazine and CNN and all theother news outlets to see that
(17:32):
this is happening.
And, um, you know, Google is theGoogle is the standard bearer
for search because they do it inan organized, deliberate manner.
They changed their algorithmsevery six months or so.
So it's, it's very, verydifficult for SEO specialists to
(17:54):
really get a solid grip on SEOnow, uh, because Google, uh, is
changing their algorithm soregularly.
And so many people are trying tofinagle it and try, try to find
ways to hack it.
So what you're going to see ismore and more people creating
more content more often moreregularly.
(18:17):
I'm certainly not immune tothat.
I mean, I don't have anywherenear the amount of content that
I would like to have, but a oneperson I'm semiretired now.
So on any given day, I may writea new blog post or make a new
video or podcast, or I may justsay, I'm going to go sit outside
and read for a couple of hours.
But for the business owner,that's committed, you're going
(18:41):
to see much more emphasis oncontent production.
And that's across the boardpodcasting, just like what
you're doing, a video creation,because the number two search
engine in the world is YouTubeis I'm sure you know, and that's
also owned by hello, Google.
So for every, and I call this,the golden rule of marketing is
(19:07):
multiple formats.
So this is called content.
Re-purposing so more and morebusinesses are going to be doing
this.
And those who can't do this are,should say, refuse to do it
because everybody can, youeither have the time.
You don't have the time.
And if you don't have the timeyou bring someone in.
(19:29):
So content re-purposing isbasically you write a blog post,
good for you.
You've got a blog post.
That's great.
Now you can create aninfographic based on that blog
post.
So now you have a visual imagethat you can also use for sites
like Pinterest and show yourinfographic on other social
(19:49):
media sites.
Right now you take your blogposts that you just RO you could
read it, just read it verbally,uh, as a podcast change, it's
the terms and hashtags around.
So you're changing the SELaround.
Now.
You have right image a podcast.
Now do a video of your blog post.
(20:11):
You can just look into thecamera and just read it like a
talking head, or you couldinterview someone and try to
frame a discussion around thesubject matter of the blog post,
right?
And now you've got the video.
So you've taken one piece ofmarketing content or collateral
and create two pole forms okay.
(20:34):
Of marketing content, just fromthat one.
Now, imagine if you do thatevery day for 30 days, you're
going to have a tremendousamount of material and the more
complimentary or overlappingyour SEO is, the more likely it
is to hit in Google.
And, um, I'll tell you a storyabout SEO, if it's okay with
(20:58):
you, absolutely go for it.
Okay.
I don't know how your time is.
Uh, this was maybe 10 years agoand I was in Denver, Colorado.
I was very, very active and Iwas between agency positions.
So I was freelancing as anindependent contractor, and I'll
(21:21):
never forget this.
There was a competitor of mine,but we were also friends because
he was a very, very nice guy.
And even though we werecompetitors, we were unfriendly
terms, you know, and he calledme up one day out of the blue.
And he said, you beautifulblankety blank, blank, ex
expletive.
And I said, well, who, the blankexpletive is this.
(21:43):
I had an idea.
It was because the way he wastalking and his tone of voice,
right?
He said, you're number one atGoogle.
How the F did you do that?
And I said, really, you'renothing made, um, not literally,
but figuratively.
And he said, well, how did youdo it?
And I said, well, I didn't know,because I don't look at Google
(22:05):
every day is too stressful.
So anyway, he told me I wasnumber one at Google, for web
design and digital marketing inDenver, Colorado, how did I do
it?
And I told them how I did it.
And I said, what I did was I wastinkering with my website every
day.
(22:25):
Sometimes multiple times everyday I was writing a new blog
post every day about, uh,upcoming workshops or seminars
that I was conducting in theDenver area, the Denver tech
center area, or in other areasof Colorado, I was blogging
about it.
(22:46):
I was podcasting about it.
I was also changing theterminology on different pages
so that they were more local.
And I was talking more about thelocal scene in local digital
marketing goings on.
So everything that I was doinghad to do with more local SEO,
more local events, and tyingeverything in to web design or
(23:09):
marketing or SEL.
And after about 60 days, itstarted ticking up the search
results in Google, which that wecall SERPs search engine result
pages.
So it was moving up and shortlyafter his phone call, I started
getting phone calls, emails likeevery 15 minutes for about two
(23:30):
weeks.
And it honestly, it got to beoverwhelming because yes, I was
getting more phone calls andmore emails, but they weren't
all from people I really wantedto work with.
They were from people who werecalling and saying, how much is
a website?
How much is e-commerce?
How much is web design?
(23:51):
How much, how much our launch,everything.
So they were looking at what Iwas doing as one in done
physical items and not asbeginning of process.
So I'm explaining, andre-explaining this.
So of all of the phone calls andemails that were coming through,
(24:12):
I had a handful of legitimateclients on any given day or
week.
So I realized I had to startdoing more of what the agencies
were doing.
So it's not enough to just getphone calls and emails, but you
want to get phone calls andemails from qualified prospects.
People who want to work with youwho have money and are willing
(24:35):
to invest it in order to getmore in return.
But that's something I wantedto, to illustrate how SEO works
in very basic terms.
And there's obviously a lot moreyou can do.
So the more organized anddeliberate you are, the more
effective you're going to be.
(24:56):
So sorry to go off on a tangentlike that.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
It's, uh, it's, it's fun.
Whenever you get to find outstories about how people, you
know, climb to the number onesearch result, and then, you
know, the, the by-product ofwhat that means.
I mean, there've been beengroups that I've worked with,
who they'll rank number one forcertain elements, but those
elements really are, are drivingtraffic to their site, not
necessarily qualified traffic orpeople who would end up buying
(25:22):
they're buying their wares.
A good example of that is, youknow, years ago, worked with an
organization who they had, theywould write blogs almost
religiously, uh, twice a week ontopics related to safety
workplace safety.
Yeah.
But the information they soldwas basically a version of dun
(25:44):
and Bradstreet's Liga a datalist, right.
There was information and theydidn't line up, but they had a
boatload of traffic that wouldcome to the site, hoping that
somebody was looking for safetywould also want data in, in that
bridge was just too far apart.
One person explained to me, hejust said, you know, if you're a
beer company, don't go out in,in write about cars.
(26:07):
Or if you're, you know, ifyou're a software company don't
grow right about beers, like itdoesn't, it doesn't translate,
make sure the content and thingsthat you're writing about are
relative to the type of personand the type of customer you
want to see come through yourbaskets.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Absolutely abs a frequent Luli.
Because when I was in Denver, Iwas very active.
I mean, like I said, I'mteaching boot camps, I'm
teaching workshops.
I, um, I did work, uh, throughthe, the WordPress foundation,
which is a, not the nonprofitarm of WordPress, which is owned
by a company called automatic.
So I would teach all kinds ofworkshops and boot through
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Their groups on meetup.com, um, teaching other
boot camps and workshops on aweekly basis.
Every weekend I would dosomething and sometimes a week
evenings evenings during theweek.
So I'm also cross pollinating,all of that marketing with these
groups and these presentationsand the more I focused in on
(27:08):
WordPress.
Well, I attracted people whowanted to know more about
WordPress.
The problem with that was I wasattracting a lot of people who
are all do it yourselfers.
So they would never invest apenny.
They would never invest 10 centsin their business because
everything had to be free.
So I had all these people comingand saying, can you help me fix
(27:28):
my broken site?
But it has to be free or, youknow,$10 or whatever.
And I'm thinking these arebusinesses that are never going
to get anywhere.
So over time I changed that andsaid, no, I want to only work
with businesses that areenterprise level 50 or more
employees.
And now that I'm older and kindof, semi-retired kind of, sort
(27:50):
of, I only really want to workwith business owners who are
committed, who really take itseriously.
And that's a big determinant,you know, and you can usually
tell after about 10 seconds.
So the first thing they talkabout is money.
We're probably not a good fit,but if you talk about my
(28:12):
business is going under, I'm notgetting any phone calls.
I need to turn that around.
Now you're a good fit.
Cause you're, you're, you have abusiness you care about, but
anyway, let me let you go.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
I look, and I, you obviously, you're, you're kind
of on the tangent there, as itrelates to finding the right fit
for, for who you have.
But, you know, expanding thatout with this digital
transformation that's coming.
I mean, today there was a, therewas an article or an article or
a video shown by Bostonelectronics of a dancing robot.
(28:50):
The, the Tik TOK craze is takingover the world with, you know,
everybody's going to have 15seconds of fame.
It's no longer 15 minutes.
It's 15 seconds with your techdog or your Instagram.
What are the trends that we'reseeing happening and how it's
going to force businesses to dothings differently as we move
(29:10):
beyond 2021, because you saidmom and pops are going away, but
don't, they have a competitiveadvantage because they don't
have corporate brand standardsthat they have to meet or, or
shareholders that they have to,
Speaker 2 (29:23):
They can, they can, it doesn't mean that they do.
So.
I mean, you and I both knowthere's how many small business
owners out there who are outthere right now, who don't have
websites, who don't havewebsites are mobile responsive,
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Who aren't using, e-commerce who aren't on
YouTube, who aren't podcasting.
They're not doing everythingthat they can do.
And it's either because theydon't have the resources or they
don't care, or maybe they don'tknow how, or they're trying to
do everything themselves forfree.
And, um, you know, I, I totallyget the challenges that are upon
(30:07):
the American business ownerright now.
I totally get it.
And my heart goes out to them.
But you, you, so you have topick your battles and like what
we were saying with SEO and likewhat we were also saying with
not every customer or everyclient is going to be an ideal
fit for you.
You've gotta be very selectiveand very deliberate with what
(30:28):
you do, or are you going to gounder right now?
There are sharks in the water.
There's a Wolf at every door.
If you're a business owner rightnow, you know, when COVID first
was going through this area, youknow, I remember telling my
wife, I would love to ordergroceries locally and have a
local POB or local mom and popor a local grocery store
(30:50):
delivered to us.
I would prefer that I couldn'tfind a single one that did not a
single one.
I read about a local pub.
That was, uh, because nobodywanted to go into inside the
pub.
So they were offering like 20pounds of pasta, 20 pounds of
chicken, you know, discountedrates.
(31:11):
And you could go pick it up bycurbside pickup, but you
couldn't do it through theirwebsite.
So you'd have to physically, youknow, call them up on your
phone, give them your creditcard number and then go get in
your car and go pick it up.
I mean, why could you partnerwith Uber?
But Uber eats with door dashwith any one of these companies
(31:31):
and offer home delivery.
Why couldn't you have a modernwebsite that works on your
phone?
Why could you have e-commerce soyou could take payments online.
Why couldn't you do thesethings?
Because he didn't want to that'sthe thing.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Do you think it was want, or do you think it was
money?
Like, I may think don't youthink that some, some of the,
some of the apprehension inmodernizing or going through
digital transformation, doesn'tsome of that come with, I'm
afraid of the investment,because I, I picked the wrong
vendor the first time to do X,Y, or Z, or I don't understand
where my audience is anymore.
(32:05):
Like, what is it?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Is it, they don't have any money or, or flat
broken.
I don't have any money, butlike, you know, but let's break
that down then.
Okay.
Let's say for the sake ofmetaphor that you have a huge
tumor on top of your head.
Okay.
Now, of course, I don't wantthat, but let's say that anybody
(32:28):
listening or watching, that'swhat you have.
If that's happened to you,you're going to go to the
doctor.
You're not going to call thedoctor and say, I know what ails
mean.
I know how to resolve theproblem.
I know how much it should costme.
(32:48):
I know what medicines you shouldprescribe and how you should do
your surgery.
And I'll tell you what tools youshould use.
And I'll tell you the deadlinethat you should have this all
done by.
You know, if you went to thedoctor and said that they would
laugh you out of their offices,they wouldn't hear it.
And yet that is what happensevery single day.
(33:12):
When you are a digital marketerlike myself, and you see RFPs
request for proposals, wherethey're telling you, this is how
much it should be, this is whattools you should use.
This is the deadline that has tobe, everything has to be done my
way within my budget.
And this is my problem.
And this is how you solve it.
They're not asking you for help.
(33:34):
You're telling you, this is howyou need to do it.
And this is how much you shouldmake.
That's insane.
And then they wonder why they'regoing out of business, or they
can't reach any new customers.
Well, you did it to yourself.
Now, as far as the businessowner who doesn't know what to
do, you know, look, I'm notBuddha, but if anybody has a
(33:56):
question, they can email me.
I offered this on every podcastthat I go on online, Facebook,
Twitter, LinkedIn.
And I always tell people, if youhave a question about digital
marketing, anything, as long asyou're not selling me some kind
of spam nonsense, I'll give youan honest response and I'll try
to send you a link to a blogpost I've written on this
(34:18):
subject.
And if I don't have one, I'llsend you a link to someone
else's.
So I'll give you an honestanswer.
And I don't care whether youwork with me or not.
I've never had any taker, not asingle one.
Okay.
And it's because they don't wantto know, or they think they
already know.
But the whole thing iseverything that you need is
(34:40):
right there in front of you fora few thousand bucks, you'd get
started.
You work with a professional.
How do you tell a piece of,
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I feel like that the reason that people don't think
about when the freeconsultations or contact you
with any, any question has lessto do with, they'll take you up
on it or not.
And more to do with, they don'teven know where to start in
asking questions.
They don't know.
Are we starting at, uh, are westarting at digital marketing
(35:09):
one Oh one where it's like here,this is what search paid search
is, or are we talking abouthere's how you fine tune Google
ads?
Or are we talking about here'show you do email marketing and
target your automation campaignson the back end to drive
lifetime customer value?
Is, is it, is it more about,they don't know where to start
(35:31):
or is it more about they don'ttrust the, the consultation not
to be a sales?
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Well, you know, as far as not trusting the sale,
the consultation not to be asales call, you know, I always
say, you know, there's nostrings attached.
Um, you know, if you ask me aquestion online, there's no way
that it could be a sales call inthe first place, because you
send me a question.
(35:59):
And if it's a legitimate, honestquestion, I'll send you a short
response.
Here's your answer?
I do it on Quora all the time,same as on LinkedIn and Twitter.
And I've had several people onTwitter, uh, emailed me
questions.
Uh, so, you know, I justanswered very directly.
(36:20):
I, and I just tell them if youwork with me, great, if you
don't, I'm just, I'm still goingto keep on trucking.
It doesn't matter.
You know, I'm just trying to bea legitimately helpful, honest,
um, person here, but, you know,that's all you can do, um, and
be transparent.
And I think that differentiatesme from the magical gurus that
(36:44):
you see out there tellingeverybody, you can make a
million dollars overnight withno money.
You're not going to, you know,and if you hustle endlessly with
no organized plan, do you're notgoing to get anywhere either.
So I'm not Gary V and I'm not amagical guru guy.
Uh, you know, just somebody withthis experience and they can
(37:05):
take it or they can leave it asthey may wish.
But for those who are sincerelyinterested, I try to be as open
and as honest and asforthcoming, as helpful as I
can, because I believe in beinga moral person now, um, as far
as not knowing what to ask youbegin with the first gap.
(37:25):
So, you know, I'm not going toshoot somebody down for asking
me what is SEO, or how does SEOwork, or, you know, something
really basic.
I'll give them a flat, you know,answer and just say, now, now
that you know that it's not anitem, it's a process.
(37:48):
It's not immediate.
It's not overnight, it's notfree.
It's not$50.
You have to commit.
I can't do anything for anybodyif I don't talk to them first.
And I, you know, and I mean,honestly, I put a lot of this,
um, on these free do it yourselfor templates that I really
(38:08):
really think do, uh, businessowners have profound disservice
because you know, this idea thatyou could get something of great
value for nothing is not how itworks.
And they all will work with youand give you more, but triple
the cost of what you would getif you were to work with someone
(38:28):
independently.
So like the hosting is probablythree to four times more than it
would be if you were to go to
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Blue host or GoDaddy yourself, you know?
So over time they nickel anddime you, you know, so if you
want help with SEO, well, that'sgoing to be$50 an hour.
So maybe they think it's a greatdeal, you know, but after four
or five hours, are you going tohave the results that you
wanted?
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Uh, look, I, there was, uh, there bills and I'm not
gonna, I'm not gonna pretend toown this.
Steve Wiedemann, um, who doesSEO consulting in California?
Actually, he, he does it acrossthe States.
He has a really great statement.
And he says, if you think hiringan expert is expensive, try
hiring an amateur.
That's right.
(39:17):
You're going to spend three,four, you know, you might spend
20 to 30 grand using an amateurbecause you had to redo
something five, six, seven,eight times versus spending 10
grand with an expert.
And it was the highest quote tobegin with.
But there wasn't all of thechange orders on the backside
because you had an expertactually doing it with you on
the front end.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Right.
And I've never turned down aclient, uh, for that matter, who
offered me, um, much less thanthat.
You know, when I worked formarketing agencies, okay, the
marketing agency, they cannotwork with you.
Most of them cannot work withyou.
If your budget is below 10grand, why is that?
(39:57):
Because they have infrastructurethat they have to pay out of
pocket.
They have to pay the, lease, theutility.
They have to pay theiremployees, EHR, their legal
department, and all of thisinfrastructure.
Some agencies will talk to youif your budget is five grand,
but now much lower than that.
They're not going to take youseriously.
So when I worked for agencies, Iwould pick up the clients who
(40:21):
didn't have the budget toqualify, to be taken seriously
by the agency.
So if some, if, if a businesssaid, well, my budget is five
grand, but I need a beautifulcostume site.
That's going to work on mobile.
I want to try to get to benumber one in Google for local
businesses of my type.
I need some help writing somecontent, you know, could you
(40:43):
help you with two or three blogposts and setting up some social
media accounts?
I want to have e-commerce so Ican take payments for five or
six types of services or five orsix types of five or six items.
I'll say, well, five grand is alittle bit low for what you
want, but you know what?
(41:05):
Let's talk about it and see ifwe can work out a plan and some
structure and some organizationto this.
And then if after we talk, Ireally feel like I can knock
this out of the park for you andbe proud of the work that I do.
I'll do it.
So we have a couple ofconversation through zoom or
through Skype, or what have you.
(41:25):
And we work it out.
So where are there is a will,there's a way.
And that quote is absolutelycorrect.
In fact, I, I have that samequote on one of my blog posts,
where I talk about budget and Igo over that with infographics
and everything.
Cause I've heard that before aswell.
(41:46):
You know?
I mean, how many times have wetaken cars?
You know, if you, somebody who'sbeen driving for a long time and
you, in fact, I'll tell youthis, you know, I, I remember I
had a friend who went and boughta, um, and it was a, like a
hobby motorcycle.
He paid 50 bucks for it.
And I remember laughing at himand he was a really, really big
(42:08):
guy.
So I didn't want to laugh too.
Obviously, you know, we werefriends and everything.
So I just said, that's going tolast you about one week.
If you're lucky, actually itlasted about three or four days
and he was furious.
And I just said, well, what didyou expect?
And the guy's not taking yourcalls and everything.
(42:29):
But this happens every singleday, all across America with
business owners every day, we'retrying to get something for
nothing.
I remembered there was anonprofit or organization, and
this is the ultimate irony.
Okay.
This one will make you slap yourforehead.
This was a woman who contactedme and said, I want to start a
marketing agency, specificallyoffering web design services to
(42:53):
nonprofits.
And I said, okay, do you havefive Oh one C3 nonprofit status
yet?
She said, no, I don't need it.
I don't want to talk about it.
I just want the website.
Do you have any content yet?
No, I don't.
Well, what is your SEO should belocal because all businesses
start local.
She disagreed.
I said, well, what's yourbudget?
(43:14):
She said$200.
I said, you're kidding me.
She said, no, it's 200 and I'mnot going a penny above it.
So I said, okay, well, based onwhat you described to me, I
don't think we're a good fit,but I wish you all the luck in
the world.
She told me what her domain namewas going to be.
And I checked it two weekslater, you know what happened?
(43:37):
There's nothing there.
I wrote on my calendar threemonths later to check it,
nothing there nothing everhappened.
She probably had a website for acouple of days.
You know, it's, it's, it's partof the, it's part of the
adventure.
You, you have to be willing toput in what you want to get out.
(44:01):
You know, just like, you know,weightlifting being physically
fit, writing a book, starting abusiness.
The more you put in the more youwill get out.
And as far as financially, youwant to budget to begin just as
if you were putting an ad in alocal newspaper or a tabloid or
on a radio station.
(44:22):
So the more returns oninvestment you want, the more
you're willing to invest.
So for print newspaper, 1500 tostart, and this was 10 years ago
to around three grand that's tobe taken seriously.
If you want to put an ad on aradio station, we know it's
(44:44):
going to be probably triplethat.
If you want to put an ad on TV,it's going to be much, much
higher than that.
And now Hulu will let you putads on their TV programs now.
And certainly YouTube will letyou put ads on their programs as
well as we know.
And you can look at thosebudgets and easily get an idea.
(45:06):
And that's how you can kind ofget a blueprint for estimating
realistic budgets.
But if somebody were to come tome and say, you know my budget
3000, I'm not going to turn thatdown, turn that away.
I'll say let's find out morebecause at least it's a start.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
Well, and I think, you know, I think the thing that
we've, we've, we've highlightedor you've highlighted well today
is, is that you've got to start.
You got to get moving.
You can't let the digitaltransformation that's happening
in the marketplace, pass you by.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
No.
And do you know the term digitaltransformation, as opposed to
digital marketing, a lot ofpeople get lost in the weeds of
technical jargon.
Like, what is SEO?
What is content marketing?
What is e-commerce basicallydigital transformation means in
very basic terms.
It means you're transforming abusiness using digital media and
(46:03):
online marketing.
So that's why I tell people,look, if you want to get
technical, what am I?
I'm an enterprise digitalmarketing specialist because I
take all these tools and Ibundle it all together and see,
now how can we take yourbusiness and put rockets on it?
How can we turn your businessinto a lean mean machine and
(46:24):
give it some, you know, reallysuper sharp teeth and make it
competitive in this jungle outthere.
And, uh, so when people refer todigital transformation, that's
really what it means.
You know, using everythingthat's out there to make this
business more competitive andmore, more agile, good stuff.
(46:49):
I hope so
Speaker 3 (46:50):
Well for those, for those that are listening, if
they want to, they want to get ahold of you.
What's the best way for them toreach out to you?
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Well, it's really easy.
I mean, you could go to Googleand just type it, DMS dot Ballou
.
You can go to your address barfor whatever browser you use and
type in dms.blue.
And you can find me that way.
That's great.
And you can go to Twitter andFacebook and type in the same
thing.
Sorry.
(47:17):
No.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Oh, you're quite all right.
We want to thank you so muchfor, for being on today and
sharing not only your thoughtson digital marketing strategy,
how organizations can transitionways to prepare and future-proof
the business.
It's, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Well, I really appreciate your time and I
appreciate the time of anybodywatching or listening.
And sorry.
If I went off on a tangent,there it's a subject that I feel
very passionate about.
So it's a subject I couldreally, really talk all day long
about, obviously.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
That's great.
Uh, thanks guys for tuning in,make sure you like follow or
subscribe.
You've been listening to thesummit podcast with your host
Kyle hammer, and until nextweek, keep grinding, keep
growing, keep learning and keepmoving.
Make 20, 21 your best year yet.
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