March 11, 2020 • 36 mins
Marketing is hard enough if you are a big company with what seems like endless resources, but when you are a small team tasked with performing and don't have an uncapped budget doing more with less is always a demand. Does your small marketing team know how to effectively select partners and tell the difference between a pretender and a contender?
In this episode of SUMMIT Podcast we tackle the challenges small industrial marketing teams face when trying to become digital in an analog world. Small business digital marketing savant with 20 years helping companies modernize their online presence, Jill Manty of Manty Web shares her insights of what it takes to be successful. This episode it chalk full of secrets for the small marketing team and how to select the perfect support system without breaking the bank.
About Jill Manty
Jill learned to find solutions and manage complications while getting using her Theater degree. Ever ended up on stage in a scene where you were supposed to die by being shot, only to discover the gun has gone missing? She has. Ever stage-managed a production where actors skipped 10 pages of dialogue then looped back to pick up the missing 10 pages? She has.
As a mother of 6, she's uniquely qualified to build relationships and manage human and operational resources. Have you ever packed 8 people for a 20 hour trip in a minivan? Jill has. And successfully negotiated who was sitting where and who was touching who with no permanent injuries and with no one walking home. She brings that same brand of level-headed problem solving to each project. Find out how Manty Web can make your life easier.
About Kyle Hamer
A sales and marketing veteran with a deep understanding of strategy, digital marketing execution, and using technology to enhance brand impact. A hands-on leader with a passion for solving business challenges with process, operations, and technology. When Kyle's not tinkering on businesses, you'll find him spending time with those he loves, learning about incredible people, and making connections.
About Hamer Marketing Group
Market growth for a new product or service is often limited by market distractions, unreliable data, or systems not built to scale. Hamer Marketing Group helps companies build data-driven strategies focused on client acquisition and sales development supported by the technology and operations necessary to create profitable growth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyle Hamer (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the summit, the podcast where we
bring you knowledge and insightsfrom industry leaders and
professionals.
No fluff, no double digitovernight growth schemes.
We're having real conversationsand getting really answers from
people who do this every day,all day.
Today.
Our special guest on summit isJill Manty of Manty Web.
(00:24):
How are you today, Jill?
Jill Manty (00:26):
I'm well, thank you.
How are you?
Kyle Hamer (00:28):
Yeah, well I'm doing awesome.
It's a end of the week.
Wrap it up and headed towards a,towards the weekend.
Can't get any better than that,right?
Jill Manty (00:38):
Yeah, no, that's true.
Especially it seems like thistime of year everything is.
Um, everybody's been having longweeks on Tuesday, so, uh, it's
gonna be Friday.
Kyle Hamer (00:53):
That's right.
It very much is.
Well, today we're going to talka little bit about a smart
partnerships, how smallmarketing teams can get more by
knowing what they do best.
And in outsourcing grass, Ithink it's just kind of the, the
paraphrase there, but really youhave a lot of experience with,
uh, with small marketing teamsin your digital agency.
(01:14):
So before we get into all that,tell us just a little bit about
yourself, Jill, and then we'lltalk about our topic today.
Jill Manty (01:20):
Sure.
I, um, ah, the owner of Mantyweb, uh, we've been in business
11 years.
I have[inaudible] odd pedigreein that this could be a whole
show probably in and an untoitself.
I have a theater degree and Irun a web development, isn't it?
(01:42):
Which doesn't always seem like anatural and action, but, but it
is, so it works for us.
It's kind of helpful because asa business owner, I'm not so
tempted to be the person doingall of the work because aye
don't code.
So there's no way for me to doall of the work.
Kyle Hamer (02:05):
That's awesome.
Now with, with your experiencein living years owning Manti
web, you have, you've seen atrend really kind of explode
over the last four or five yearswhere there's this disparity in
talent.
When we went, we spent some timetalking about it.
Tell me a little bit about whatyou see as the unique challenges
that small marketing departmentshave.
Jill Manty (02:27):
Well, we're, we're entering a time period when it
comes to, especially digitalmarketing and technical
marketing where it's not enoughto understand strategy.
There's actual tactics thatrequire technical skill.
(02:49):
So that's[inaudible] that'sdifficult for people who went to
school sometimes for acommunication degree or they
went to school and got amarketing degree 20 years ago
and it's or 30 years ago ormaybe longer.
Um, it's difficult for them tothen transition that to say,
(03:13):
running paid search.
Okay.
So they understand the marketingsolid strategy behind that.
But the tactics have changed somuch and some of are current
digital marketing tactics reallydo require you to go really deep
(03:34):
into that tactic instead ofbeing a marketing generalist.
So, and that's probably alwaysbeen true.
Like people who've been inmarketing a very long time are
probably like, yeah, there'salways been a difference between
somebody who could ride ad copyand somebody who could write an
email[inaudible] which is aye,I'm sure 100% true.
Kyle Hamer (03:59):
Hmm.
Jill Manty (03:59):
Right.
I feel like we're coming out ofa time when maybe those skills
were more applicable to oneanother.
Yeah.
Um, and easier to transitionfrom one to another versus we've
had plenty of really good paidsearch people working for us who
cannot do search engineoptimization.
Okay.
Because[inaudible] can't do theback end work that's required.
(04:24):
They don't want to learn code.
And so while they might be ableto do some of the SEO strategy,
they're not going to implementhers.
Mmm.
And so we see that same thing insmall marketing departments.
You get somebody who's thenpulled into the marketing
department out ofcommunications.
You know, they got hired as acomms person 20 years ago, 15
(04:47):
years ago, when really their jobwas internal and external
communications.
And now in the last 10 years, orin some cases even more
recently, they've been put incharge of the website.
Well, I don't know anythingabout the website.
Mmm.
And they don't have the time orthe inclination necessarily to
(05:12):
go out and become experts in webdevelopment or digital marketing
because they still have theiroriginal job, which is internal
and external communications.
Kyle Hamer (05:28):
So when you, when you have a department like that
or where you have teams that aresmall and in, you know, you have
a tag team of maybe one personis communications, internal,
external, the other person is, Idon't know, they're supposed to
be digital marketing.
How does it,
Jill Manty (05:48):
who's still there, who's supposed to be making
pictures to go in the emails orthere might be somebody who's
supposed to be adding to thewebsite.
There usually is like amarketing assistant type
position that sits is kind ofthe second chair in those
departments.
Um, but it's a usually prettyspecific skillset that they were
(06:09):
brought in for.
Kyle Hamer (06:12):
And, and you know, based on what your experience
has been, are you seeing thatorganizations are now asking
this marketing leader and andassistant whatever their
pedigree is to begin doing andtaking on things like ad buying,
SEO, website optimization andcontent strategies, et cetera
with it is that they're asked todo everything?
Jill Manty (06:34):
Yes.
Mmm.
Typically these are notcompanies who are going to
talking about industrialcompanies.
So B2B as always, not so maybe[inaudible] the same way about
marketing that a consumer basedcompany feels about marketing.
(06:57):
Just say that.
Um, industrial definitelydoesn't always feel like
marketing is that in inboundmarketing or you know, we talked
about trade shows, people thatare accustomed to trade shows,
they're accustomed to sales guyswho have their book of business.
(07:17):
That's then the way thatbusiness gets done within these
industries for a very, very,very long time.
And so that's their comfortlevel.
So as things expand and as theyget younger, people either in
the C level or they get youngerpeople at the director level or
in sales and all of a suddenquestions start to get asked
(07:40):
about, well, what are we doingwith our website to get more
leads?
Okay.
And that's going to 100% fall towhoever's in charge of the
marketing.
[inaudible] because it soundslike a marketing question.
I mean, it is a marketingquestion.
Hmm.
But it's a different marketingquestion than was being asked of
that person five years ago.
(08:01):
Okay.
And, but you know, that doesn'tnecessarily mean that an
organization is like, and here'sthree times the budget in order
to make that happen.
So go hire yourself adepartment.
Usually it means here's somemore budget maybe and figure out
how to get all this done.
(08:24):
So at that point in time thereare, mm.
Let's say four options.
There's probably more I'm goingto go with four.
One is you hire somebody, sothat's great.
If you have enough work, twoneed to hire somebody.
Okay.
If you have more sporadic workor sometimes you have a lot of
(08:46):
work and sometimes you don'thave a lot of work that's
[inaudible] difficult.
Dang.
Then what do you do with thatperson when you're not super
busy?
You hire, you can bring in afreelancer, so an individual who
shows up and helps you when youneed extra help and then goes
away.
Okay.
Mmm.
(09:07):
The, that's sometimes it's theperfect solution.
It also kind of depends on howmuch work you need done because
[inaudible] you want to makesure that you have enough work
that they stay engaged, but notso much that you cross over into
now.
They probably should be anemployee if you don't want to
hire an employee.
(09:29):
Uh, so, and, and you also havethe added kind of risk of that
person six months from now maynot be doing the same thing.
Maybe they go get a job.
Okay.
Uh, you just don't ever, okay.
The investment's a little lesson the freelancer side of things
then if somebody has a business[inaudible] Mmm.
(09:49):
You can hire a full agency, uh,which may cost you more than
you're willing to spend.
Mmm.
Yeah.
And depending on the agency mayor may not be willing to serve
in kind of an[inaudible] ad hoccapacity.
Okay.
Mmm.
Or you can hire, Mmm.
(10:12):
A company like Ayers.
Mmm.
We loosely refer to ourselves asan agency depending on who I'm
talking to.
Our whole point is not to comein and do discovery and run your
marketing campaign.
Our whole point is to come inand do an evaluation of what
(10:32):
you're doing well, where youneed help and fill in the holes.
Okay.
And so, Mmm.
I think that each company needsto figure out what's the best
solution for their particularneed because it's not always us
or a company like ours.
Sometimes it is at full agency.
(10:52):
[inaudible] Mmm.
If you have somebody who's like,I really, really, really am a
comms person and I have a commsdepartment that I need to be
running and I also need amarketing department and I
cannot build a marketingdepartment, they may need a full
agency because they don't needholes filled.
They need a new vote.
(11:15):
[inaudible] Mmm.
Kyle Hamer (11:16):
So how did, how would, how would you, how would
you encourage a marketing leaderor marketing team, business
owner to kind of assess Mmm,what their, what they're like,
how would, how would they knowwhat they're looking for?
What would be the things thatthey would need to ask and
understand?
Jill Manty (11:35):
Sure.
It's always going to start withwhat the strategy is.
So, you know, I like mindmapping or just sitting down
with, I'm big on bullet pointedlist, um, that are very loosely
outlined.
And so, you know, sit down andsay, well, what are we hoping to
(11:56):
accomplish this year?
What do we think we need to dothat?
Mmm.
Whereas where do all of ourproperties fit into that?
You know, where does email fitinto that?
Where does our website fit intothat?
Where does R R whatever othercapabilities we have trade
shows, whatever fit into thatand then start to say, well,
(12:20):
what do we need in order toaccomplish?
What does success look like andwhat do we need to accomplish
that?
So obviously for me, usuallyit's the question of stuff that
touches the website.
So first, do we have a website?
(12:41):
Hi.
Enlarge the answer to that for,unless you're a startup, the
answer to that now is yes.
[inaudible] okay, well[inaudible] what happens if we
need to change something on thewebsite?
Do we have a person for that?
Maybe yes, maybe no.
Mmm.
What kind of changes can theymake[inaudible] website?
(13:02):
Like, what if we really want tomake a change to the website?
Can they do that?
Mmm.
And then sitting down andsaying, how are we utilizing
traffic?
You know, are we, do we care?
Um, I would like to assume thatthe answer to that is always
yes, we care.
But it is not always the answer.
(13:24):
So it really is about justsitting down and kind of mapping
out what you have, what yourcapabilities are, what you're
really good at.
Sometimes it's what you've beenasked to do by farther up the
food chain.
Um, okay.
And looking at and just writingdown everything that you have to
do yourself, everything that youwant to do yourself or with
(13:48):
people that you already have inthe department and then what's
leftover.
Um, and then it's a matter oflooking at how, so what's
leftover going to get taken careof.
So, okay.
If you have a company that, youknow that this year you're
(14:09):
buying another company andyou're going to completely
rebrand.
Yeah.
Are you comfortable rebrandingeverything?
Um, are you comfortablerebranding collateral, web
collateral names, you know, allthose pieces?
Or are you like, well I will re,I will be happy to write that
(14:30):
press release.
That's the only part of thisthat I'm comfortable with.
Then you start mapping out asbest you can.
I mean at that point in time youreally aren't going to have to
at some point in time depend onan expert or a professional who
does that to say, this is whatyou need to know.
(14:53):
These are the questions you needto be asking.
[inaudible] and so at some pointin time, you just need to find
somebody that's willing to sitdown with you either as a paid
consultant or Mmm.
As part of their sales processtoo.
Kind of do some of that inquiryfor you.
Mmm.
I'm a[inaudible] big believer inbig fan of audit and paid plans
(15:18):
so that you're not beholden tothe person who did the auditor
wrote the plan.
So you may need to, if youreally, really, really don't
know what your holes are, youmay need to pay for somebody to
come in and do a marketing auditand say, or a digital marketing
audit, if it's specific todigital and say, here's what you
(15:39):
have, here's what you don'thave, here's what that means.
Mmm.
And, and maybe get a littleeducated on what those pieces
are that you don't have or thatyou don't understand or that you
think maybe you don't need.
Kyle Hamer (15:56):
You know, I think it's, it's, it's interesting you
talk about mind map.
Mmm.
And it sounds to me like there'smaybe a, a bit of polarity here
in these small teams where youhave certain people with certain
skills and as the businesschanges or the market changes,
the demand changes, there'sgotta be some fear that comes
with, Oh, I don't know that.
(16:18):
How do you, how do you find the,these teams, um, had the ability
to either educate themselvesenough to go, yeah, I really
don't want to do that.
Or, um, more importantly, cancan be honest enough with
themselves or self aware enoughof where they're at to know,
Hey, I'm not worried about myjob.
I just need to make sure thatthis gets done well.
(16:39):
And with success, like how doyou, how have you seen people
work through that[inaudible] andbe successful?
Jill Manty (16:48):
Aye am only really in a great position to say how
the people that work with mework here too because the ones
who aren't talking to me, likeit usually ends up that it's a
kind of a private one on oneconversation after there's some
level of trust established.
(17:08):
So to be able to say, I reallydon't understand this thing over
here, I have a question.
Mmm.
Or I've been asked, you know, Ihave this proposal but I don't
really understand what I'mpaying for.
Okay.
And sometimes they can go tothat person and ask, but that's
(17:29):
not always the best way to get astraightforward answer.
Sometimes you get the salespitch, which does not help you
to understand what it is thatyou're actually paying for
sometimes.
Mmm.
So, you know, there areobviously a million digital
marketing classes out there.
(17:49):
Okay.
Hmm.
But it's really helpful, I thinkfor senior marketers who, whose
education[inaudible] predatesdigital marketing classes, I
think they just need to find aresource where they can get some
digital marketing foundationsinformation.
(18:13):
Mmm.
So sometimes you could go tolike, uh, American marketing
association events that[inaudible] based on those
topics and that might help.
It might at least help youidentify what the holes are.
Like if you go to hear a talkand it's on, um, data and you
(18:34):
think, Hmm, don't know anythingabout that, then that's probably
a whole, so now are you willingto go learn more or do you just
need to find somebody who cancome in and help you with that?
And is it even a need for you?
Like, do you, you know, are youthere yet?
Even w I know from yourperspective, you're like, yes,
(18:55):
always.
You're always there.
You always need the data.
Um, so, and, and I agree, but,uh, that, that's helpful.
Like listening to podcast, youknow, just looking at things,
um, events that are going on.
But most people are, they, theyjust need to know enough so that
(19:17):
they can figure out what theyaren't going to do and how to
manage it.
I am a F I don't know thatsomebody with an MBA in
marketing needs to go back andlearn how to do SEO or Hmm.
Actively managed their website.
I'm just not convinced thatthat's the best use of their
time.
(19:38):
Um, so at that point they needto be in a position to just go
and sit down with somebody whowilling to talk through that
with them.
Um, and finding, you know, thereare a lot of marketers out
there, digital marketers,regular marketers, any
marketers, there are a lot ofpeople who really do want to
(20:03):
educated and share and make surethat you're doing what's best
for your company.
Um, I don't want to pretend thatwe're the only company out there
doing that because I think a lotof people are trying to provide
a good service, um, to theirclients.
And I am noticing a trend withagencies where there is a lot
(20:26):
more education and questioninggoing on instead of just walking
in the door and saying, well, wecan just do it all for you.
Uh, and I think that's greatthough.
I think that's a good sign.
Um, I think that's a gooddirection for the industry.
So that's, I think they just tofind a source that they trust.
Kyle Hamer (20:49):
Sure.
Jill Manty (20:49):
And if they don't no anyone, then that's Mmm.
Chances are if they've been inmarketing that long, they know
someone that they can ask andsay, ask them questions about
our website.
Who can I talk to?
Kyle Hamer (21:09):
Well, I, you know, I, I think in many ways, Jill,
as I listened to you talk, itreminds me of Mmm.
[inaudible] what I would say isprobably a very common common
experience for late gen X earlygen Y when you would buy a
computer and it would be broughtto the house and then the
parents would expect you becauseyou were young and you had
(21:30):
computers in school to knowexactly what to do with
computer.
Um, just just cause you're inmarketing or just cause you just
graduated with a marketingdegree doesn't mean that you
have all of the technicalaptitude to manage or even
understand the right questionsto ask for.
Yeah.
What's the difference betweenprogrammatic, uh, programmatic
advertising by digitally or paidsearch or, um, you know, what's
(21:54):
the difference between SEO andlocal SEO or local search?
Excuse me.
What's the, you know, you, youstart getting into some of the
technical nuances.
It's like, well, I know wherethe power button is on my
computer and I have to type onthe keyboard, but it doesn't
mean that I know how to get theransomware off of it.
Jill Manty (22:12):
Right, right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so it is a little bit of achallenge for younger graduates
as well.
Sometimes they get kind ofthrown in the deep end when it
comes to this type of thing.
I think that what advantage thatthey have is they're like right
there where they just finishedlearning a bunch of stuff they
didn't know.
So they may be a little lessafraid.
(22:33):
You know, if somebody says,well, you're in charge of
digital marketing now they'relike, all right, I'm just gonna
figure out how I do digitalmarketing.
You know, is there a class I cango to?
Um, and so they're a little, uh,they're just[inaudible] closer
to that learning experience.
But to your point, you know,sometimes people are really
(22:55):
great.
I, I, my personal philosophy inlife is that we are all born
with unique gifts and talents toserve a specific purpose in our
life.
So if your specific purpose isnot coding websites, but you're
(23:15):
great at communicating, then itfeels like a waste of time and a
waste of energy.
Like you're going to spend somuch energy trying to figure out
how to fix the website that youcould have put into this
fantastic communications plan orto writing 47 blog posts or to
(23:35):
completely rewriting the websitecontent.
And it just feels like it's okay.
A waste to waste that energy ifit's at all within your capacity
financially.
Um, and from a resourceperspective to be able to turn
that over to somebody else.
(23:58):
So[inaudible] Mmm.
In my business I am really,really good at talking to
clients and I'm good atunderstanding what people need
and educating them.
Yeah.
I every once in awhile have tostep in and do content entry for
(24:21):
websites just cause that's, youknow, like the work needs to get
done and people are booked withother things that I can't do.
And that's where I can step in.
And for the first 30 minutes isexciting because it's different.
It's not what I do every day.
[inaudible] and the next day,however long it takes[inaudible]
misery personified.
(24:41):
And not only does it take melonger, but then I'm done for
the day because I've just spentan hour and a half doing
something that I really don'tlike and I really don't want to
do.
Okay.
And for me, if you've got asmall marketing department, like
you need that marketingdepartment doing what they do
best to the utmost of theirability.
(25:06):
And if you are sucking up alltheir energy doing things, and
I'm not talking about like weall need to be able to learn new
skills, but you're really justasking them to work against who
they are, four 20 plus hours aweek, then even the[inaudible]
15 to 20 hours of what they'regood at that you're left with is
(25:28):
probably not as good as it couldbe.
So to me, that's why it's soimportant for those small
marketing teams to get theresources that they need because
it's not just a question of canyou do it?
You know, it's really questionof should you do it?
Um, but even beyond, should youdo it[inaudible] it's not just
(25:51):
if you say, well, it's justgoing to take me five hours a
week.
Yeah.
Great.
What impact is that five hours aweek going to have on the rest
of your work?
Because I don't think there'sanyone who doesn't understand
how taxing it is to do somethingthat's true.
Just a poor fit.
Kyle Hamer (26:13):
It's like a, it's like going to the gym after you
haven't gone for a while.
I mean, this is the beginning ofthe year.
Lots of people who resolves togetting in shape.
They know how incrediblyexhausting it is.
And they only spent 20 minutesat the, it's a treadmill.
They didn't even make it over tothe weights.
Right.
Jill Manty (26:28):
Well I think it's even more so than that.
I think it's like if you take aprofessional baseball player and
you say, okay, now you're goingto go to a football combine,
that's a professional athlete.
They're great.
They know what they're doing.
You put them out on the baseballfield, fantastic.
(26:48):
You ask them to go run a 40maybe not so fantastic.
Mmm.
Because that's not where theirstrength is.
Like they're not a footballplayer.
They're a baseball player.
And that's right.
Different skillset.
You know, if you ask a pool,somebody who's great at pool,
(27:11):
they're great at pool and you'relike great.
I mean kind of a, you know,[inaudible] an activity that
requires some[inaudible], someeye hand coordination.
And it requires, you know, thatyou're comfortable with places
where there's a lot ofcigarettes.
And so if you're a pool player,obviously you can bowl.
(27:35):
Cause, I mean it's basically thesame thing.
It's not at all the same thing.
Kyle Hamer (27:40):
Oh, it's about the same.
Jill Manty (27:42):
That person who goes to bowl, who's a pool player or
vice versa is going to probablybe much more tired at the end of
a two hour bowling match or poolgame.
Then the person who that's whatthey do all the time.
Kyle Hamer (27:57):
Sure.
So in the last, in the lastcouple of minutes here, um,
we're, we're, we've got, I'd bereally curious to know if there
are some key questions or keythings that Mmm.
That these departments, leaders,owners should look for when,
when selecting and findingsomebody that's a good partner.
(28:18):
Like, okay, so I've determinedthat I don't have the skills or
this is something that we needto go get.
How does, how does, uh, w whatare the right things to ask?
What's the right way to thinkabout it in order to, to find
somebody that's a good fit toget the most out of that
partnership?
Jill Manty (28:33):
Sure.
I mean, let's assume for asecond that you know what you
need.
You know, somebody who you'relooking specifically for
somebody to help you with leadgeneration, you know, you need
more traffic to your website andyou want that traffic to turn
into[inaudible], um, peoplefilling out a form or placing a
phone call, then it's a littleeasier because then you can say,
(28:56):
Hey, Mmm, tell me about thestrategy.
Tell me about what you do.
Tell me about how you approachthese problems.
Probably if there were okaycompany that's, you know, a
solid company, they're not goingto walk in the door with those
answers.
They're going to have a lot ofquestions.
You need to give them the timeto go away and formulate a plan.
(29:17):
And if they say that's a paidplan, then you need to be
willing to pay for the paidplan.
Mmm.
I'm a big advocate of a plansand audits, so I think that
those are good opportunity to,to find out more information
without having to commit.
Kyle Hamer (29:35):
Just give it, give it a little, give a little
context as to why you're a,you're a fan of the paid plan
and or audit.
Jill Manty (29:43):
So you know, um, we all know that you're either yeah
.
Customer or you're the product.
Okay?
You're only the customer if youpay for something, okay?
Yes, you're not paying for anaudit.
That's just a sales pitchopportunity.
(30:03):
You're going to get what'sneeded in order to get money
from you, period.
So if you actually pay for anaudit, then what you should be
getting[inaudible] a plan thatincludes not just what's wrong
with your website or what'swrong with your SEO or what's
wrong with your paid search, butalso a clear plan for fixing
(30:27):
that.
Um, maybe not every singledetail, maybe not, you know,
it's not a class, but it shouldhave information that you could
take to another vendor and get aquote on it and get it fixed.
Um, ideally would also come witha cost if you're going to have
the same person fix it.
But so from just a practicalperspective, that's why I'm a
(30:48):
big believer.
I'm also a big believer becauseit's an opportunity to get to
know each other without a lot ofrisk.
So if you are looking atbringing in someone to do, let's
just say paid search and you'regoing to pay your ad spend, plus
(31:14):
you're going to pay a managementfee that probably starts at
let's say around$500 a month andmay go up a lot from there.
Then.
So you're looking at, Mmm,you're looking at committing to
somewhere around$6,000 plus ayear plus ads.
(31:38):
Yeah.
[inaudible] to me it makes a lotmore sense to spend, um, 1500,
$2,000 that has[inaudible]definitive end that you can walk
away with a product and a planand decide whether you actually
like working with these peopleversus committing to this much
(32:02):
longer engagement with someonethat you really don't know.
So the whole dating versusmarriage idea of everybody is
great on the first date.
Um, just because you had a greatsales meeting doesn't mean
that's somebody that reallyyou're going to love working
with.
(32:22):
So figuring out a smaller thingthat you can engage on first,
um, in order to figure out ifthis is a good match, but don't
just[inaudible] pay for paidsearch for three months because
then you're right back tosquares, you know, square.
If you decide, Nope, this is notthe right company.
(32:42):
Um, so try to pick somethingthat has like, that's a project
that has a beginning, middle andend, and that the end has a
deliverable associated with itthat is valuable to you,
regardless of whether therelationship continues on or
not.
So like from an SEO perspective,you could engage someone to Mmm,
(33:02):
speed up your website.
If you decide that you don'tlike working with him and you
don't trust them or you don't,it's just not a good fit.
Your website's still faster soyou can move on, not feeling
like you've wasted money becausethat's the number one thing that
I hear all marketers and allbusiness owners and everyone who
(33:24):
has to deal with marketing hatethe idea that they're going to
and money and it's going to be awaste.
Kyle Hamer (33:37):
I think that, um, you know, if I were to, to
summarize what I've heard today,gel and kind of look back over
the conversation, you, youalmost nailed it on the head
there.
If do you want to get the mostout of your marketing, whether
it's internal, external, or acombination of both.
You have really three coreelements.
(33:59):
One, you've got to have theability to be honest with what
you want to do and can do andwhat you know and what you
don't.
[inaudible] you have to be ableto identify what the right, uh,
what the right things are thatyou need, right?
And, and that can througheducating yourself or if you're
(34:22):
talking to partners, but thenthree to getting the most out of
your partnership, you need tomake sure that the money you're
spending or investing internalor external is always working
for you.
So you shouldn't be investing inor spending money on things that
doesn't help move you towardsyour end goal.
And know being strategic canalso be very important in how
(34:46):
you pick your partner and pickthe, get projects done,
Jill Manty (34:49):
right?
Not really large companies thathave,
Kyle Hamer (34:53):
yeah.
Jill Manty (34:54):
Budgets set aside for experimentation.
Um, if you know any of those orit to be one of those, I'd be
happy to talk to you.
But most of us are not in thatplace.
We don't have 20% of our budgetset aside to like, well, if it
works, it works.
If it doesn't, it doesn't.
So it really is important thatpeople are being smart, Mmm.
(35:19):
Wise, more than smart with theirmarketing dollars.
Kyle Hamer (35:23):
Sure.
Makes complete sense.
So if somebody wants to getahold of you, uh, and in follow
up, Jill, what's the best way tofind you?
And if you get a hold of you?
Jill Manty (35:35):
I'm on LinkedIn.
Mmm.
Joe Manti.
That's always a good way.
Uh, also emailingme@gillettemantiweb.com and I
always do welcome a phone call,but typically it's best to email
me first just to make sure thatour schedules match up so that
I'm not, I will almost alwaysanswer my phone, but sometimes
(35:57):
it's not the most convenienttime.
And so I want to be able toreally pay attention to people.
So an email or or reach outthrough LinkedIn.
Kyle Hamer (36:05):
Right.
And for our listeners, we willhave Jill's information in the
description as well as on thethe website Haimer marketing
group.com forward slash summitdash podcast.
I'm Jill, thank you so much forbeing a guest today and sharing
with us the, the insights thatit takes to be a successful
(36:27):
small business, small marketingdepartment, and getting the most
out of your partnerships.
Jill Manty (36:33):
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
Hello and welcome to the summit, the podcast where we
bring you knowledge and insightsfrom industry leaders and
professionals.
No fluff, no double digitovernight growth schemes.
We're having real conversationsand getting really answers from
people who do this every day,all day.
Today.
Our special guest on summit isJill Manty of Manty Web.
(00:24):
How are you today, Jill?
Jill Manty (00:26):
I'm well, thank you.
How are you?
Kyle Hamer (00:28):
Yeah, well I'm doing awesome.
It's a end of the week.
Wrap it up and headed towards a,towards the weekend.
Can't get any better than that,right?
Jill Manty (00:38):
Yeah, no, that's true.
Especially it seems like thistime of year everything is.
Um, everybody's been having longweeks on Tuesday, so, uh, it's
gonna be Friday.
Kyle Hamer (00:53):
That's right.
It very much is.
Well, today we're going to talka little bit about a smart
partnerships, how smallmarketing teams can get more by
knowing what they do best.
And in outsourcing grass, Ithink it's just kind of the, the
paraphrase there, but really youhave a lot of experience with,
uh, with small marketing teamsin your digital agency.
(01:14):
So before we get into all that,tell us just a little bit about
yourself, Jill, and then we'lltalk about our topic today.
Jill Manty (01:20):
Sure.
I, um, ah, the owner of Mantyweb, uh, we've been in business
11 years.
I have[inaudible] odd pedigreein that this could be a whole
show probably in and an untoitself.
I have a theater degree and Irun a web development, isn't it?
(01:42):
Which doesn't always seem like anatural and action, but, but it
is, so it works for us.
It's kind of helpful because asa business owner, I'm not so
tempted to be the person doingall of the work because aye
don't code.
So there's no way for me to doall of the work.
Kyle Hamer (02:05):
That's awesome.
Now with, with your experiencein living years owning Manti
web, you have, you've seen atrend really kind of explode
over the last four or five yearswhere there's this disparity in
talent.
When we went, we spent some timetalking about it.
Tell me a little bit about whatyou see as the unique challenges
that small marketing departmentshave.
Jill Manty (02:27):
Well, we're, we're entering a time period when it
comes to, especially digitalmarketing and technical
marketing where it's not enoughto understand strategy.
There's actual tactics thatrequire technical skill.
(02:49):
So that's[inaudible] that'sdifficult for people who went to
school sometimes for acommunication degree or they
went to school and got amarketing degree 20 years ago
and it's or 30 years ago ormaybe longer.
Um, it's difficult for them tothen transition that to say,
(03:13):
running paid search.
Okay.
So they understand the marketingsolid strategy behind that.
But the tactics have changed somuch and some of are current
digital marketing tactics reallydo require you to go really deep
(03:34):
into that tactic instead ofbeing a marketing generalist.
So, and that's probably alwaysbeen true.
Like people who've been inmarketing a very long time are
probably like, yeah, there'salways been a difference between
somebody who could ride ad copyand somebody who could write an
email[inaudible] which is aye,I'm sure 100% true.
Kyle Hamer (03:59):
Hmm.
Jill Manty (03:59):
Right.
I feel like we're coming out ofa time when maybe those skills
were more applicable to oneanother.
Yeah.
Um, and easier to transitionfrom one to another versus we've
had plenty of really good paidsearch people working for us who
cannot do search engineoptimization.
Okay.
Because[inaudible] can't do theback end work that's required.
(04:24):
They don't want to learn code.
And so while they might be ableto do some of the SEO strategy,
they're not going to implementhers.
Mmm.
And so we see that same thing insmall marketing departments.
You get somebody who's thenpulled into the marketing
department out ofcommunications.
You know, they got hired as acomms person 20 years ago, 15
(04:47):
years ago, when really their jobwas internal and external
communications.
And now in the last 10 years, orin some cases even more
recently, they've been put incharge of the website.
Well, I don't know anythingabout the website.
Mmm.
And they don't have the time orthe inclination necessarily to
(05:12):
go out and become experts in webdevelopment or digital marketing
because they still have theiroriginal job, which is internal
and external communications.
Kyle Hamer (05:28):
So when you, when you have a department like that
or where you have teams that aresmall and in, you know, you have
a tag team of maybe one personis communications, internal,
external, the other person is, Idon't know, they're supposed to
be digital marketing.
How does it,
Jill Manty (05:48):
who's still there, who's supposed to be making
pictures to go in the emails orthere might be somebody who's
supposed to be adding to thewebsite.
There usually is like amarketing assistant type
position that sits is kind ofthe second chair in those
departments.
Um, but it's a usually prettyspecific skillset that they were
(06:09):
brought in for.
Kyle Hamer (06:12):
And, and you know, based on what your experience
has been, are you seeing thatorganizations are now asking
this marketing leader and andassistant whatever their
pedigree is to begin doing andtaking on things like ad buying,
SEO, website optimization andcontent strategies, et cetera
with it is that they're asked todo everything?
Jill Manty (06:34):
Yes.
Mmm.
Typically these are notcompanies who are going to
talking about industrialcompanies.
So B2B as always, not so maybe[inaudible] the same way about
marketing that a consumer basedcompany feels about marketing.
(06:57):
Just say that.
Um, industrial definitelydoesn't always feel like
marketing is that in inboundmarketing or you know, we talked
about trade shows, people thatare accustomed to trade shows,
they're accustomed to sales guyswho have their book of business.
(07:17):
That's then the way thatbusiness gets done within these
industries for a very, very,very long time.
And so that's their comfortlevel.
So as things expand and as theyget younger, people either in
the C level or they get youngerpeople at the director level or
in sales and all of a suddenquestions start to get asked
(07:40):
about, well, what are we doingwith our website to get more
leads?
Okay.
And that's going to 100% fall towhoever's in charge of the
marketing.
[inaudible] because it soundslike a marketing question.
I mean, it is a marketingquestion.
Hmm.
But it's a different marketingquestion than was being asked of
that person five years ago.
(08:01):
Okay.
And, but you know, that doesn'tnecessarily mean that an
organization is like, and here'sthree times the budget in order
to make that happen.
So go hire yourself adepartment.
Usually it means here's somemore budget maybe and figure out
how to get all this done.
(08:24):
So at that point in time thereare, mm.
Let's say four options.
There's probably more I'm goingto go with four.
One is you hire somebody, sothat's great.
If you have enough work, twoneed to hire somebody.
Okay.
If you have more sporadic workor sometimes you have a lot of
(08:46):
work and sometimes you don'thave a lot of work that's
[inaudible] difficult.
Dang.
Then what do you do with thatperson when you're not super
busy?
You hire, you can bring in afreelancer, so an individual who
shows up and helps you when youneed extra help and then goes
away.
Okay.
Mmm.
(09:07):
The, that's sometimes it's theperfect solution.
It also kind of depends on howmuch work you need done because
[inaudible] you want to makesure that you have enough work
that they stay engaged, but notso much that you cross over into
now.
They probably should be anemployee if you don't want to
hire an employee.
(09:29):
Uh, so, and, and you also havethe added kind of risk of that
person six months from now maynot be doing the same thing.
Maybe they go get a job.
Okay.
Uh, you just don't ever, okay.
The investment's a little lesson the freelancer side of things
then if somebody has a business[inaudible] Mmm.
(09:49):
You can hire a full agency, uh,which may cost you more than
you're willing to spend.
Mmm.
Yeah.
And depending on the agency mayor may not be willing to serve
in kind of an[inaudible] ad hoccapacity.
Okay.
Mmm.
Or you can hire, Mmm.
(10:12):
A company like Ayers.
Mmm.
We loosely refer to ourselves asan agency depending on who I'm
talking to.
Our whole point is not to comein and do discovery and run your
marketing campaign.
Our whole point is to come inand do an evaluation of what
(10:32):
you're doing well, where youneed help and fill in the holes.
Okay.
And so, Mmm.
I think that each company needsto figure out what's the best
solution for their particularneed because it's not always us
or a company like ours.
Sometimes it is at full agency.
(10:52):
[inaudible] Mmm.
If you have somebody who's like,I really, really, really am a
comms person and I have a commsdepartment that I need to be
running and I also need amarketing department and I
cannot build a marketingdepartment, they may need a full
agency because they don't needholes filled.
They need a new vote.
(11:15):
[inaudible] Mmm.
Kyle Hamer (11:16):
So how did, how would, how would you, how would
you encourage a marketing leaderor marketing team, business
owner to kind of assess Mmm,what their, what they're like,
how would, how would they knowwhat they're looking for?
What would be the things thatthey would need to ask and
understand?
Jill Manty (11:35):
Sure.
It's always going to start withwhat the strategy is.
So, you know, I like mindmapping or just sitting down
with, I'm big on bullet pointedlist, um, that are very loosely
outlined.
And so, you know, sit down andsay, well, what are we hoping to
(11:56):
accomplish this year?
What do we think we need to dothat?
Mmm.
Whereas where do all of ourproperties fit into that?
You know, where does email fitinto that?
Where does our website fit intothat?
Where does R R whatever othercapabilities we have trade
shows, whatever fit into thatand then start to say, well,
(12:20):
what do we need in order toaccomplish?
What does success look like andwhat do we need to accomplish
that?
So obviously for me, usuallyit's the question of stuff that
touches the website.
So first, do we have a website?
(12:41):
Hi.
Enlarge the answer to that for,unless you're a startup, the
answer to that now is yes.
[inaudible] okay, well[inaudible] what happens if we
need to change something on thewebsite?
Do we have a person for that?
Maybe yes, maybe no.
Mmm.
What kind of changes can theymake[inaudible] website?
(13:02):
Like, what if we really want tomake a change to the website?
Can they do that?
Mmm.
And then sitting down andsaying, how are we utilizing
traffic?
You know, are we, do we care?
Um, I would like to assume thatthe answer to that is always
yes, we care.
But it is not always the answer.
(13:24):
So it really is about justsitting down and kind of mapping
out what you have, what yourcapabilities are, what you're
really good at.
Sometimes it's what you've beenasked to do by farther up the
food chain.
Um, okay.
And looking at and just writingdown everything that you have to
do yourself, everything that youwant to do yourself or with
(13:48):
people that you already have inthe department and then what's
leftover.
Um, and then it's a matter oflooking at how, so what's
leftover going to get taken careof.
So, okay.
If you have a company that, youknow that this year you're
(14:09):
buying another company andyou're going to completely
rebrand.
Yeah.
Are you comfortable rebrandingeverything?
Um, are you comfortablerebranding collateral, web
collateral names, you know, allthose pieces?
Or are you like, well I will re,I will be happy to write that
(14:30):
press release.
That's the only part of thisthat I'm comfortable with.
Then you start mapping out asbest you can.
I mean at that point in time youreally aren't going to have to
at some point in time depend onan expert or a professional who
does that to say, this is whatyou need to know.
(14:53):
These are the questions you needto be asking.
[inaudible] and so at some pointin time, you just need to find
somebody that's willing to sitdown with you either as a paid
consultant or Mmm.
As part of their sales processtoo.
Kind of do some of that inquiryfor you.
Mmm.
I'm a[inaudible] big believer inbig fan of audit and paid plans
(15:18):
so that you're not beholden tothe person who did the auditor
wrote the plan.
So you may need to, if youreally, really, really don't
know what your holes are, youmay need to pay for somebody to
come in and do a marketing auditand say, or a digital marketing
audit, if it's specific todigital and say, here's what you
(15:39):
have, here's what you don'thave, here's what that means.
Mmm.
And, and maybe get a littleeducated on what those pieces
are that you don't have or thatyou don't understand or that you
think maybe you don't need.
Kyle Hamer (15:56):
You know, I think it's, it's, it's interesting you
talk about mind map.
Mmm.
And it sounds to me like there'smaybe a, a bit of polarity here
in these small teams where youhave certain people with certain
skills and as the businesschanges or the market changes,
the demand changes, there'sgotta be some fear that comes
with, Oh, I don't know that.
(16:18):
How do you, how do you find the,these teams, um, had the ability
to either educate themselvesenough to go, yeah, I really
don't want to do that.
Or, um, more importantly, cancan be honest enough with
themselves or self aware enoughof where they're at to know,
Hey, I'm not worried about myjob.
I just need to make sure thatthis gets done well.
(16:39):
And with success, like how doyou, how have you seen people
work through that[inaudible] andbe successful?
Jill Manty (16:48):
Aye am only really in a great position to say how
the people that work with mework here too because the ones
who aren't talking to me, likeit usually ends up that it's a
kind of a private one on oneconversation after there's some
level of trust established.
(17:08):
So to be able to say, I reallydon't understand this thing over
here, I have a question.
Mmm.
Or I've been asked, you know, Ihave this proposal but I don't
really understand what I'mpaying for.
Okay.
And sometimes they can go tothat person and ask, but that's
(17:29):
not always the best way to get astraightforward answer.
Sometimes you get the salespitch, which does not help you
to understand what it is thatyou're actually paying for
sometimes.
Mmm.
So, you know, there areobviously a million digital
marketing classes out there.
(17:49):
Okay.
Hmm.
But it's really helpful, I thinkfor senior marketers who, whose
education[inaudible] predatesdigital marketing classes, I
think they just need to find aresource where they can get some
digital marketing foundationsinformation.
(18:13):
Mmm.
So sometimes you could go tolike, uh, American marketing
association events that[inaudible] based on those
topics and that might help.
It might at least help youidentify what the holes are.
Like if you go to hear a talkand it's on, um, data and you
(18:34):
think, Hmm, don't know anythingabout that, then that's probably
a whole, so now are you willingto go learn more or do you just
need to find somebody who cancome in and help you with that?
And is it even a need for you?
Like, do you, you know, are youthere yet?
Even w I know from yourperspective, you're like, yes,
(18:55):
always.
You're always there.
You always need the data.
Um, so, and, and I agree, but,uh, that, that's helpful.
Like listening to podcast, youknow, just looking at things,
um, events that are going on.
But most people are, they, theyjust need to know enough so that
(19:17):
they can figure out what theyaren't going to do and how to
manage it.
I am a F I don't know thatsomebody with an MBA in
marketing needs to go back andlearn how to do SEO or Hmm.
Actively managed their website.
I'm just not convinced thatthat's the best use of their
time.
(19:38):
Um, so at that point they needto be in a position to just go
and sit down with somebody whowilling to talk through that
with them.
Um, and finding, you know, thereare a lot of marketers out
there, digital marketers,regular marketers, any
marketers, there are a lot ofpeople who really do want to
(20:03):
educated and share and make surethat you're doing what's best
for your company.
Um, I don't want to pretend thatwe're the only company out there
doing that because I think a lotof people are trying to provide
a good service, um, to theirclients.
And I am noticing a trend withagencies where there is a lot
(20:26):
more education and questioninggoing on instead of just walking
in the door and saying, well, wecan just do it all for you.
Uh, and I think that's greatthough.
I think that's a good sign.
Um, I think that's a gooddirection for the industry.
So that's, I think they just tofind a source that they trust.
Kyle Hamer (20:49):
Sure.
Jill Manty (20:49):
And if they don't no anyone, then that's Mmm.
Chances are if they've been inmarketing that long, they know
someone that they can ask andsay, ask them questions about
our website.
Who can I talk to?
Kyle Hamer (21:09):
Well, I, you know, I, I think in many ways, Jill,
as I listened to you talk, itreminds me of Mmm.
[inaudible] what I would say isprobably a very common common
experience for late gen X earlygen Y when you would buy a
computer and it would be broughtto the house and then the
parents would expect you becauseyou were young and you had
(21:30):
computers in school to knowexactly what to do with
computer.
Um, just just cause you're inmarketing or just cause you just
graduated with a marketingdegree doesn't mean that you
have all of the technicalaptitude to manage or even
understand the right questionsto ask for.
Yeah.
What's the difference betweenprogrammatic, uh, programmatic
advertising by digitally or paidsearch or, um, you know, what's
(21:54):
the difference between SEO andlocal SEO or local search?
Excuse me.
What's the, you know, you, youstart getting into some of the
technical nuances.
It's like, well, I know wherethe power button is on my
computer and I have to type onthe keyboard, but it doesn't
mean that I know how to get theransomware off of it.
Jill Manty (22:12):
Right, right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so it is a little bit of achallenge for younger graduates
as well.
Sometimes they get kind ofthrown in the deep end when it
comes to this type of thing.
I think that what advantage thatthey have is they're like right
there where they just finishedlearning a bunch of stuff they
didn't know.
So they may be a little lessafraid.
(22:33):
You know, if somebody says,well, you're in charge of
digital marketing now they'relike, all right, I'm just gonna
figure out how I do digitalmarketing.
You know, is there a class I cango to?
Um, and so they're a little, uh,they're just[inaudible] closer
to that learning experience.
But to your point, you know,sometimes people are really
(22:55):
great.
I, I, my personal philosophy inlife is that we are all born
with unique gifts and talents toserve a specific purpose in our
life.
So if your specific purpose isnot coding websites, but you're
(23:15):
great at communicating, then itfeels like a waste of time and a
waste of energy.
Like you're going to spend somuch energy trying to figure out
how to fix the website that youcould have put into this
fantastic communications plan orto writing 47 blog posts or to
(23:35):
completely rewriting the websitecontent.
And it just feels like it's okay.
A waste to waste that energy ifit's at all within your capacity
financially.
Um, and from a resourceperspective to be able to turn
that over to somebody else.
(23:58):
So[inaudible] Mmm.
In my business I am really,really good at talking to
clients and I'm good atunderstanding what people need
and educating them.
Yeah.
I every once in awhile have tostep in and do content entry for
(24:21):
websites just cause that's, youknow, like the work needs to get
done and people are booked withother things that I can't do.
And that's where I can step in.
And for the first 30 minutes isexciting because it's different.
It's not what I do every day.
[inaudible] and the next day,however long it takes[inaudible]
misery personified.
(24:41):
And not only does it take melonger, but then I'm done for
the day because I've just spentan hour and a half doing
something that I really don'tlike and I really don't want to
do.
Okay.
And for me, if you've got asmall marketing department, like
you need that marketingdepartment doing what they do
best to the utmost of theirability.
(25:06):
And if you are sucking up alltheir energy doing things, and
I'm not talking about like weall need to be able to learn new
skills, but you're really justasking them to work against who
they are, four 20 plus hours aweek, then even the[inaudible]
15 to 20 hours of what they'regood at that you're left with is
(25:28):
probably not as good as it couldbe.
So to me, that's why it's soimportant for those small
marketing teams to get theresources that they need because
it's not just a question of canyou do it?
You know, it's really questionof should you do it?
Um, but even beyond, should youdo it[inaudible] it's not just
(25:51):
if you say, well, it's justgoing to take me five hours a
week.
Yeah.
Great.
What impact is that five hours aweek going to have on the rest
of your work?
Because I don't think there'sanyone who doesn't understand
how taxing it is to do somethingthat's true.
Just a poor fit.
Kyle Hamer (26:13):
It's like a, it's like going to the gym after you
haven't gone for a while.
I mean, this is the beginning ofthe year.
Lots of people who resolves togetting in shape.
They know how incrediblyexhausting it is.
And they only spent 20 minutesat the, it's a treadmill.
They didn't even make it over tothe weights.
Right.
Jill Manty (26:28):
Well I think it's even more so than that.
I think it's like if you take aprofessional baseball player and
you say, okay, now you're goingto go to a football combine,
that's a professional athlete.
They're great.
They know what they're doing.
You put them out on the baseballfield, fantastic.
(26:48):
You ask them to go run a 40maybe not so fantastic.
Mmm.
Because that's not where theirstrength is.
Like they're not a footballplayer.
They're a baseball player.
And that's right.
Different skillset.
You know, if you ask a pool,somebody who's great at pool,
(27:11):
they're great at pool and you'relike great.
I mean kind of a, you know,[inaudible] an activity that
requires some[inaudible], someeye hand coordination.
And it requires, you know, thatyou're comfortable with places
where there's a lot ofcigarettes.
And so if you're a pool player,obviously you can bowl.
(27:35):
Cause, I mean it's basically thesame thing.
It's not at all the same thing.
Kyle Hamer (27:40):
Oh, it's about the same.
Jill Manty (27:42):
That person who goes to bowl, who's a pool player or
vice versa is going to probablybe much more tired at the end of
a two hour bowling match or poolgame.
Then the person who that's whatthey do all the time.
Kyle Hamer (27:57):
Sure.
So in the last, in the lastcouple of minutes here, um,
we're, we're, we've got, I'd bereally curious to know if there
are some key questions or keythings that Mmm.
That these departments, leaders,owners should look for when,
when selecting and findingsomebody that's a good partner.
(28:18):
Like, okay, so I've determinedthat I don't have the skills or
this is something that we needto go get.
How does, how does, uh, w whatare the right things to ask?
What's the right way to thinkabout it in order to, to find
somebody that's a good fit toget the most out of that
partnership?
Jill Manty (28:33):
Sure.
I mean, let's assume for asecond that you know what you
need.
You know, somebody who you'relooking specifically for
somebody to help you with leadgeneration, you know, you need
more traffic to your website andyou want that traffic to turn
into[inaudible], um, peoplefilling out a form or placing a
phone call, then it's a littleeasier because then you can say,
(28:56):
Hey, Mmm, tell me about thestrategy.
Tell me about what you do.
Tell me about how you approachthese problems.
Probably if there were okaycompany that's, you know, a
solid company, they're not goingto walk in the door with those
answers.
They're going to have a lot ofquestions.
You need to give them the timeto go away and formulate a plan.
(29:17):
And if they say that's a paidplan, then you need to be
willing to pay for the paidplan.
Mmm.
I'm a big advocate of a plansand audits, so I think that
those are good opportunity to,to find out more information
without having to commit.
Kyle Hamer (29:35):
Just give it, give it a little, give a little
context as to why you're a,you're a fan of the paid plan
and or audit.
Jill Manty (29:43):
So you know, um, we all know that you're either yeah
.
Customer or you're the product.
Okay?
You're only the customer if youpay for something, okay?
Yes, you're not paying for anaudit.
That's just a sales pitchopportunity.
(30:03):
You're going to get what'sneeded in order to get money
from you, period.
So if you actually pay for anaudit, then what you should be
getting[inaudible] a plan thatincludes not just what's wrong
with your website or what'swrong with your SEO or what's
wrong with your paid search, butalso a clear plan for fixing
(30:27):
that.
Um, maybe not every singledetail, maybe not, you know,
it's not a class, but it shouldhave information that you could
take to another vendor and get aquote on it and get it fixed.
Um, ideally would also come witha cost if you're going to have
the same person fix it.
But so from just a practicalperspective, that's why I'm a
(30:48):
big believer.
I'm also a big believer becauseit's an opportunity to get to
know each other without a lot ofrisk.
So if you are looking atbringing in someone to do, let's
just say paid search and you'regoing to pay your ad spend, plus
(31:14):
you're going to pay a managementfee that probably starts at
let's say around$500 a month andmay go up a lot from there.
Then.
So you're looking at, Mmm,you're looking at committing to
somewhere around$6,000 plus ayear plus ads.
(31:38):
Yeah.
[inaudible] to me it makes a lotmore sense to spend, um, 1500,
$2,000 that has[inaudible]definitive end that you can walk
away with a product and a planand decide whether you actually
like working with these peopleversus committing to this much
(32:02):
longer engagement with someonethat you really don't know.
So the whole dating versusmarriage idea of everybody is
great on the first date.
Um, just because you had a greatsales meeting doesn't mean
that's somebody that reallyyou're going to love working
with.
(32:22):
So figuring out a smaller thingthat you can engage on first,
um, in order to figure out ifthis is a good match, but don't
just[inaudible] pay for paidsearch for three months because
then you're right back tosquares, you know, square.
If you decide, Nope, this is notthe right company.
(32:42):
Um, so try to pick somethingthat has like, that's a project
that has a beginning, middle andend, and that the end has a
deliverable associated with itthat is valuable to you,
regardless of whether therelationship continues on or
not.
So like from an SEO perspective,you could engage someone to Mmm,
(33:02):
speed up your website.
If you decide that you don'tlike working with him and you
don't trust them or you don't,it's just not a good fit.
Your website's still faster soyou can move on, not feeling
like you've wasted money becausethat's the number one thing that
I hear all marketers and allbusiness owners and everyone who
(33:24):
has to deal with marketing hatethe idea that they're going to
and money and it's going to be awaste.
Kyle Hamer (33:37):
I think that, um, you know, if I were to, to
summarize what I've heard today,gel and kind of look back over
the conversation, you, youalmost nailed it on the head
there.
If do you want to get the mostout of your marketing, whether
it's internal, external, or acombination of both.
You have really three coreelements.
(33:59):
One, you've got to have theability to be honest with what
you want to do and can do andwhat you know and what you
don't.
[inaudible] you have to be ableto identify what the right, uh,
what the right things are thatyou need, right?
And, and that can througheducating yourself or if you're
(34:22):
talking to partners, but thenthree to getting the most out of
your partnership, you need tomake sure that the money you're
spending or investing internalor external is always working
for you.
So you shouldn't be investing inor spending money on things that
doesn't help move you towardsyour end goal.
And know being strategic canalso be very important in how
(34:46):
you pick your partner and pickthe, get projects done,
Jill Manty (34:49):
right?
Not really large companies thathave,
Kyle Hamer (34:53):
yeah.
Jill Manty (34:54):
Budgets set aside for experimentation.
Um, if you know any of those orit to be one of those, I'd be
happy to talk to you.
But most of us are not in thatplace.
We don't have 20% of our budgetset aside to like, well, if it
works, it works.
If it doesn't, it doesn't.
So it really is important thatpeople are being smart, Mmm.
(35:19):
Wise, more than smart with theirmarketing dollars.
Kyle Hamer (35:23):
Sure.
Makes complete sense.
So if somebody wants to getahold of you, uh, and in follow
up, Jill, what's the best way tofind you?
And if you get a hold of you?
Jill Manty (35:35):
I'm on LinkedIn.
Mmm.
Joe Manti.
That's always a good way.
Uh, also emailingme@gillettemantiweb.com and I
always do welcome a phone call,but typically it's best to email
me first just to make sure thatour schedules match up so that
I'm not, I will almost alwaysanswer my phone, but sometimes
(35:57):
it's not the most convenienttime.
And so I want to be able toreally pay attention to people.
So an email or or reach outthrough LinkedIn.
Kyle Hamer (36:05):
Right.
And for our listeners, we willhave Jill's information in the
description as well as on thethe website Haimer marketing
group.com forward slash summitdash podcast.
I'm Jill, thank you so much forbeing a guest today and sharing
with us the, the insights thatit takes to be a successful
(36:27):
small business, small marketingdepartment, and getting the most
out of your partnerships.
Jill Manty (36:33):
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.