June 28, 2023 • 37 mins
As SEGA and Nintendo breath new life into their staple platforms, we discuss what other series need to return.
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The Switch Clicks Podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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After seeing Nintendo and Sega make a grand return to their flagship 2D franchises,
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we'll be looking into other series of games that could also be revived in the 2D genre.
Welcome to the Switch Clicks Podcast, episode 142, recorded on June 27th, 2023.
My name is Nathan, and I'm joined by my fellow co-host, Tyler.
Hello!
So yeah, as of recently, we've all saw on YouTube that Sega's bringing out that new 2D Sonic game.
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Also, there's also the Sonic Origins Plus that they're also releasing.
And Nintendo also announced that they're bringing out Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Not New Super Mario Bros. Wonder for whatever reason.
And they're also bringing out another 2D Super Princess Peach game?
I don't know if that's been delved into.
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It's not quite clear if it's gonna... it looks like it's gonna be 2D.
It's kind of how they're marketing it, in that like 30 seconds.
Yeah, Super Princess Peach 2?
Oh.
Who knows, maybe.
That would be surprising, to say the least.
I think I also saw that Rayman might be making a return as well, which is another guy in the 2D
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platformer genre that has been gone for quite a while.
At least I think he's showing up...
It might not be like a full Rayman game.
It could just be like he shows up in Mario Rabbids or like a Rabbids game.
But either way, that's a good sign for like Rayman Legends 2 or something.
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I would love for them to bring us another Rayman game, for sure.
Those games are so fast-paced and it's just so smooth to play.
Yeah, Tyler and I came up with a list of other franchises that we think could make a
so-called ambitious 2D revival, because I feel like this genre has been
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so increasingly popular with all these indie games coming around.
Yeah, indie games have really been knocking the 2D platformer genre out of the park.
And it's going to be interesting to see that more companies are going back or trying to make 2D
platformers now.
So it's going to be weird because indie games have quite a chokehold on it right now.
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So who knows if AAA will be able to keep up?
Yeah, it's pretty shocking too.
The indie games have kind of set this really high standard that even some AAAs couldn't meet.
Oh yeah.
Like even Metroid Dread, for example, that couldn't really compete against some of the
bigger Metroidvanias out there like Hollow Knight.
Mm-hmm.
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Yeah, or like I would say like Celeste is probably about as well regarded as like even Mario 3.
Exactly.
Like people adore both of those games.
So it's going to be interesting seeing like Mario try to make a proper 2D platformer in
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a weird like a market where Mario isn't the primary 2D platformer guy.
Yeah.
And even not Nintendo or Sega, like there's the Prince of Persia game that was shown off.
Yeah, that's right.
Which is also a 2D platformer.
I feel bad for the fan base and for going through that unnecessary fire.
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Yeah, that game looks really exciting.
So do you want to get started or do you want me to start off with the list?
I'll get started. Why not?
We have the topic of Mario a lot and Mario is getting a new 2D platformer.
However, there's a little like weird niche depth like a hole in the Mario world that isn't really
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brought up very often that I think would be cool if they made a Mario game in the style of Mario
2 again or I guess another Doki Doki panic but marketing it as Mario 2 2 could be an interesting
way or like Mario returned to I don't know what the world's called in that game but that's just
that's a completely different style of Mario game that was done I guess because of budgetary reasons
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and pretty much yeah and also localization tapped and like what Wart has been in two games
since yeah it's a very small number of games unfortunately we can get the Mauser comeback
Yes, we need Mauser again. It's crazy to think that like Mario 2,
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Western Mario 2, is kind of that like sore thumb in the series even though like and
Nintendo's like only ever revisited this concept once I think in one of the Super Mario Advance
games I forget which one it was um Super I think it was like a remake of oh shoot I am completely
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blanking on this one it was basically one of the Game Boy Advance versions of these games and then
they they kind of added new content one of the games added new levels that you can get through
these scan cards because because yeah because the GBA had like some some reader or something
that you could buy um the e-reader I think yeah the e-reader and these unlocked levels that were
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basically like a complete crossover of all of the original Mario games like you had something from
Super Mario World something from Mario 3 something from Mario 2 slash Doki Doki Panic all in one
level basically yeah like all the mechanics complete there there's also um in Super Mario Maker 2
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there's the power up that gives you Super Mario Bros 2 powers where you can like yeah blocks and
stand on enemies yeah uh which is insane choice like I know it's only the maybe uh second slash
third game in the Mario series but uh the fact that you can't stomp on people is a very funny
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choice for when the game came out I know just trying to trying to kill those shy guys at the
very beginning like why can't I kill them it's yeah it's such a weird part of Mario history that
I'm surprised has like they haven't even like attempted to try it again yeah it's it's been
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like it's it's that experimental side that it's so good yet they completely decided to abandon it or
move on yeah um I'm not sure I don't think Super Mario Wonder is gonna dive into this either
because I mean judging by it still kind of looks more like mainline Mario Bros game I would be
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intensely surprised if anything from Mario 2 shows up in Mario Wonder outside of like shy guys or
Birdo like the things that have become popular out of it yeah too bad we're probably never
gonna see Mauser again unfortunate rip to a legend um yeah so another Nintendo franchise that I was
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thinking that could get a 2e revival this has been kind of trend not trending on Twitter but
I've I've heard rumblings about it um it's uh either a Zelda 2 remake or something designed
to be similar to Zelda 2 speaking of the odd second child in a uh popular video game series
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yeah yeah it just so happens to be the odd experimental second child
Zelda 2 I think most definitely needs a remake I don't think people are able to survive the game
even with that um sp edition that they have on NSO where they oh yeah where they give you like
max stats and items um I think the game definitely needs a bit of a facelift and
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better balancing with mechanics with um yeah enemy stats um difficulty spikes like uh especially when
you look at like Link's Awakening which was hard for people to get into because it was a Game Boy
game and you had like uh what was it you you had like a really small amount of items you could hold
at a time yeah some weird mechanic like that uh I think Zelda 2 falls into a similar thing
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where it's such a hard I think I've seen people play the game and it does like I'm weirdly
interested in trying it out uh and it's weird that you you don't like it's so hard to get into just
because it's an old game that kind of sucks all things considered yep um and it's really fun it's
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really interesting because this was like kind of a 2d RPG in that sense and you'd expect to be like
you'd expect it to get easier as you keep going forward but my goodness like I do not know how
people survive this game back then I still don't know how people survive this game today I remember
watching I think like a youtuber play it and they spent like an hour on those guards that you have
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to hit in the head trying to figure out how to get past them and I'm thinking like how does like a
small child figure out to jump and attack like hit the guard specifically in the head that's the only
way you can damage them because there's no indicator yeah there needs to be something that makes it
seem a little obvious not not a not a cyclops eye but you know something a little noticeable
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like a big gem on their head or something yeah yeah um oh and also the controls could use a
facelift too I don't think that game was really well like I think was limited by the the famicom
nes controller like you couldn't really do much with two buttons start select and a d-pad I feel
like they could they could definitely dive in more you did mention earlier about the links awakening
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remake and it was crazy because some of those items in the in the in the original game
basically gave you base like they gave you basic tasks like lifting a pot for example you needed
an item for that and for whatever reason they put in an item slot they put those in an item slot
instead of like a background passive effect it was so painful I was glad to play the remake
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and like uh the ways they could like they could go with a similar like uh toy-ish kind of look
that the links awakening remake had but I'm not sure if that would entirely fit I think a cool
way to do it would be to go for like um almost like um hollow knight are drawings essentially
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they're not sprites so if you were going for like the links awakening opening like the animated any
like the actual like anime-ish look for the game I feel like that is an easy enough way to do it
because most 2d games now unless they're going for a pixel art look you could have like a really
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pretty shanty or something that's using um a a more just illustrated look to it and I feel like
that would go really well considering how much really cool illustrations there are for Zelda that
don't really get represented as much it's it's also a bit crazy to see that um uh like why would you
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why would they consider doing animation if it takes a lot more work especially in a 2d environment
like um I've I've I was personally surprised when I found out how Microsoft um or at least the devs
of Ori of the Ori games worked on the game and I found out why it took them so long to port the
games over to the switch it was because the game was like fully animated and the backgrounds were
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actual 3d backgrounds like they weren't they weren't hand drawn they weren't uh still images
in the background they were vibrant real 3d like 3d generated backgrounds cool and I think uh with
with all those like with that much work in mind I don't think I think it'd be better for them to
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resort to the drawing style that you mentioned and I think it also make it look a lot more like what
they wanted from the box arts and the magazines and whatnot yeah uh and even like uh as much as the
games are absolutely like abysmal the uh cdi games are at least like if done if you take what like
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the cut scenes were and essentially like I'm saying the visual style is nice not exactly the
writing or the animation but that was a an interesting look at the Legend of Zelda series
that you don't really get anymore because it's all 3d yeah that's honestly that's the one that's
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honestly the one redeeming factor about the cdi games is that everything's drawn it's yeah it's
interesting it may not look very pretty it looks a little bit like mspaint art yeah at least
at least there was like an attempt at it looking nice at some point down the line with today's
technology with all of these with all like you know better colors and um better better tools to use
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I think they'd be able to pull it off this time and not not muck it up like the cheap mspaint
looking animations of cdi oh my gosh
what we're saying is we want a cdi remake I think I think that's what sure I think that's what the
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moral of this story is if I'm being honest the cdi remake could also be warranted too could be
interesting for sure it was plagued by the same issues that um Zelda 2 was in terms of
yeah or limitations it was also a 2d platformer right it was a 2d platformer yeah yeah um it's
like the only other one in the series yeah the only two other games in the series and they were
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really just plagued by you know lack of quality control and controllers but if they were to remake
it it'd actually be pretty easy too huh well fair enough I guess I guess it could work as insane as
it sounds um anyways uh moving on do we want to go to your second option or do you uh sure I mean
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it'll be my last one but that's perfectly fine and it's a little bit of a cop-out because it's
only been like two years two years maybe maybe three um three I just really want a Mario Maker
3 I just want one it's always cool when the games come out whenever Mario Maker comes out everyone's
so excited to play there's so many levels the gimmicks are always like all a bunch like the
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the initial moment of discovery for it it's just super cool and it hasn't been very long but I
just really want a Mario Maker 3 at some point soon I think it's inevitable I think it's inevitable
to be honest um with Super Mario what was Super Mario Wonder coming out oh yeah of course of
course gonna do that later down the line maybe even throw in some 3d Mario games as well
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I wonder if Mario Super Mario Maker 2 didn't sell as well as they were hoping because it looked like
there was definitely plans for DLC that just never happened yeah that game just didn't really
feel as big as the first one when you think about it I guess in the grand scheme of things it only
added like a handful of things um and I have to say I still think that Mario Maker 1's 100 Mario
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mode is much better than endless Mario of Mario Maker 2 I strongly agree with that
but the super worlds are really fun and I hope they come back for the third one
um yeah there's really not much else we could go off of based on Mario Maker because they basically
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introduced introduced everything we wanted to but there's still more like yeah you have to get like
really niche with it if you're gonna there's yeah but there are still Mario games that they
could add to it like imagine if they added um like Super Mario Galaxy or Super Mario Sunshine
functionality but in 2d yeah oh yeah for sure any of the 3d games could work so well they have it
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as a mushroom but going full Mario 2 could also be fun because that means there's a lot more enemies
you can add in there um or even if you want to get crazy with it you can add like Yoshi's Island
stuff yeah or yeah add Yoshi's Island add a Donkey Kong uh yeah country that would be but you can
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play as Mario in it yeah you just get crazy with it you can make it like you can play get funky
add the funky mode
I think that would be an amazing idea yeah you could have like it where Yoshi and Donkey Kong
and like Wario are you can use like the stuff from their games but also now you can it's like
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you combine it all so you can have like Wario and Mario 1 but he has his move set as Wario oh my
gosh she just gave me another idea to add to the list oh boy I think you already know what this is
I think I might all right I'm honestly surprised I didn't think of it because I love the games so
much me too okay let's just say it's Wario land yes for sure please please give us another Wario
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land Nintendo Wario land 4 is so so good but so so short they need to give another or at least you
know even if they gave us a Super Mario Bros game give us Wario in that please yeah have him like
there's a villain or something yeah we we haven't seen Wario in a mainline Mario game in years yeah
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he's been stuck in Wario where purgatory
I don't want another even if they do just like Wario land shake it again which isn't like a
great game but it's fine I'd eat it up I mean I guess pizza tower covers that itch a little bit
but yeah I like my gross little guy I know hey actually that gives me an idea what they could
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do for the next Wario land game imagine like the next Wario land game combines Wario where stuff
and brings you like quick time events and many micro games I could do along the way micro game
it's like um you know okay bear with me here all right do you know in five nights at Freddy's
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ultimate custom night how you're kind of bombarded in the middle of your game with like annoying
mini games yeah yeah you do that except it's micro games and they only show up in like the final
platforming sections where you're running through the level all over again oh my gosh now you have
to deal with like an additional like pop-up micro game that could be a fun way to do it I would I
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would honestly kill for a game that brings those two games to series together oh that'd be so good
Wario where land Wario where land there you go oh wow that's crazy that we just came up with that
like a meat like that can oh please do this please do this Nintendo I know you're listening
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speaking of begging for Nintendo I know this is technically not completely Nintendo was this more
begging mr sakurai here but uh can we get another 2d kid Icarus game yeah I think that's a fun way
I I 100% like I don't I'm p they're NES games but I don't love 2d kid Icarus how it originally was
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kid Icarus and there was a kid Icarus too unlike the Game Boy right yep yeah yeah I I think there's
definitely stuff they could do to make it better because well obviously the games aren't great
but um like uh my thought like when you say like new 2d kid Icarus game it the the Prince of Persia
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game like even the gameplay kind of seems like something they could do like it would be like a
fast-paced action it's like combining the two games almost that would be that would actually
be pretty interesting um I'm not sure if uh Ubisoft could dive into that too yeah I don't know how
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willing Nintendo would be to release uh any franchise from their their hands but I guess
if they're gonna do with any kid Icarus isn't exactly the most lucrative one yeah yeah I mean
um especially since um well I mean even sakurai himself he's already done a lot of 2d stuff
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already so it's not it wouldn't be as surprising um something on my mind earlier right oh okay
Ubisoft already has a bunch of experience with um Greek mythology I don't think they
I don't think they'd be ignoring kid Icarus at all so yeah that I think that would be quite cool I
don't know a ton about kid Icarus like I've attempted the first game yeah I've never touched
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any of the other ones which um is not a great thing not something I'm super proud of to be fair
but I think just any like kind of obscure Nintendo franchise getting a new game
would be very good very fun um oh oh my gosh I came up two more ideas actually right right on
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the spot here uh the first one is Gyromite uh I'd love to get another I'd love to get a modern day
Gyromite game is is that like one of the games that came with Rob yep one of the Rob games
probably the more the better known one um you know come on just give us give us something
Gyromite I'd be I'd be nice to have uh the second one is Ice Climbers um yeah this could be
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this could be like astonishing to me yeah that the like unknown characters from Super Smash
Brothers didn't get like a mini revival game when they were brought to Smash Bros I know especially
Ice Climbers like yeah my gosh they only got one game and then you just gotta capitalize off the
who's that factor yeah that's that's how Fire Emblem came to the west um yeah Ice Climbers could
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be probably one of the best designed co-op games co-op platformer games if they designed to do that
um have you seen that uh it's a rage game with two penguins attached to a string no I have not
actually uh so there's two penguins they're attached to a string and it's an online co-op
game but probably local as well uh where both one person controls each penguin and it's like a
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faughty and rage game because you fall off a lot because you're fighting with your teammate
and maybe not to like the same degree but that like each player controls an ice climber mechanic
could be interesting that would be so great too especially if they were going to capitalize on
the switch uh the switch's console design two joy cons give one to each yeah that sort of thing
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I could also see like a nightmare motion controls version of this where you have to like
throw the other person up with like throw them up with the switches uh toy motion controls
I would honestly kill for that game too like I wouldn't mind the gimmicks if
if it was a really fun co-op thing yeah if it was good yeah like I've been traumatized with
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Mario Bros co-op but that's because it's Mario Bros like with ice climbers if they were to design
the game with co-op like in mind from the very start yeah I would absolutely love it even like
the new Super Mario Bros games their co-op is kind of um it's kind of built around the fact that it's
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kind of hard to do co-op so you kind of get mad at the people playing with you yeah and putting
that like emphasizing that in the game design could be fun it's insane that they haven't
touched that yeah like come on haven't they technically made other Game & Watch games
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since Game & Watch has been in Smash Bros yeah they basically have um well not that I can think of
uh like from the top of my head but I know Game & Watch lasts pretty long longer than ice climbers
like ice climbers and Rob those are the only characters that haven't got a touch up
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yeah I guess I guess Rob half counts I don't know uh they only yeah he's barely a game character in
the first place yeah he's barely one to begin with he's just multiple game characters or he's just
like he's just like yeah I don't know I don't know what else to say he's a reference to Nintendo
history rather than a character like a character from a well-known video game yeah like we only
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know Rob because he's the villain he was the first villain of Brawl yeah other than that yeah that's
a little we need some more light Smash Bros he'd be in like one of those um YouTube videos like
did you know Nintendo and they're talking about like the card game history and stuff oh my gosh
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um anyways I think we have a couple more games on this list here um I don't know
oh yeah uh Castlevania is my first option my other first option that's non-Nintendo uh technically
it has been revived through death cells but you know it's that was the code nabi didn't really
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work on that game they just gave the approval yeah if you were to get a legitimate Konami made
uh castle 2d Castlevania game um I don't care which style of gameplay that are going for if it's
Super Castlevania 4 or if it's uh Symphony of the Night Symphony of the Night just give us
another 2d Castlevania another surprising thing that they haven't done considering like when you
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look up best 2d platformers of all time on google Symphony of the Night is always up there yeah and
then the whole the whole name of the genre literally this is one of the two franchises
that define that genre Metroidvania why why can't why aren't they capitalizing on that
even if they do like a remake of Symphony of the Night because that's kind of how they tends to go
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with these like make a remake first and if it sells well make a new game yeah that's pretty much what
Nintendo did actually yeah that's exactly what they did with Metro did they they had the Samus
returns into Madrid uh yeah remarkable that there hasn't have there been like weird there's definitely
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been weird Castlevania games that have come out recently or not maybe not well they released
collections within like the last like 15 years there has to be like one weird ugly 3d game that
came out uh well besides Castlevania 64 which i don't think anyone wants to talk about
uh Castlevania has been on a bit of a hiatus a hiatus basically i might just be thinking
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because i don't like bloodstained stuff has come out yeah bloodstained is um is a good spiritual
successor yeah and i think i just might be confusing the two it's still not Castlevania
but it's close enough yeah i fear if you're really feeling it yeah but yeah having another
Konami made one would be cool cool very open very welcome um i think a similar case is happening
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with uh actually this is my next game on the list it's uh Ninja Gaiden technically it doesn't it
doesn't need to be it doesn't need a 2d revival but you know what the first game was the first
game was fun in certain ways it definitely revolutionized cutscenes in nes games so and
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you know it had uh really fun parkour mechanics for time so you know i'd welcome another 2d Ninja
Gaiden game yeah why not i mean it's a another well-known franchise like i don't personally
like i haven't played a ton of Ninja Gaiden if like i'm not even sure i've played like an hour
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of a Ninja Gaiden game but the fact that i know of it means it's at least a kind of well-known
series i mean you basically just need to watch like angry video game nerds review on it to know
to know most of the game fair enough yeah um that's basically like i don't know if if they're
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even interested in doing it because they've been more focused on that third person hack and slash
type of game lately like no they've been doing it and they recently i think re-released a couple
games on the switch um but yeah i'd be i'd be down to have some sort of 2d ninja game um you
know it could also be there could also be shinobi for that case yeah either one of those two i'd
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welcome for a modern uh revival or remake in that case yeah i i am surprised like a lot of these
like i haven't really thought about most of them in a while but it is very surprising to see like
the fact that a lot of these haven't been touched especially considering how big indy games have
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made some 2d platformers uh even like not not like like the big headers obviously are like celeste but
even smaller ones like it feels like there's a decently acclaimed indie platformer every year
from like uh carrion which isn't really a platformer to um owl boy which came out not that long ago
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yeah or crazy ones like shovel knight oh it's yeah it is insane that there hasn't been
i don't say it three times you'll summon him yeah um yeah what were you about to say
oh i was just gonna say like reiterate that it's just crazy to me that they haven't touched
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some of like their more acclaimed older titles yeah it's crazy like they could capitalize
this so on so easily people would definitely buy it like it's not gonna be a commercial failure
people are gonna buy regardless to try it out they want to see if it's actually good or bad
2d games don't require an open world they're not gonna like the development tie in a 2d game i bet
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is like two-thirds of that on a 3d game and that's also that's also cutting away a lot more of the
animation side as well yeah because you don't deal with like different directions you have a fixed
angle yeah you're only working with two planes like even if they're making even like when the
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3ds was coming out there wasn't a ton of platform like 2d platformers which is insane because
you get the weight they're like 2d platformers like a handheld dream they both go hand in hand
like you cannot you cannot play a handheld that doesn't have a 2d platformer it just
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that wouldn't make sense yeah um i guess there's another one i want to add and say this
surprise final one contra why not oh yeah we need to i mean i think they're kind of has there not
been an attempted re-revive i think there was one yeah mobile there was like one that kind of sucked
right there was a top down one on that came out of 2019 there was also some mobile game that i
(33:17):
never heard of from again for some reason i'm not sure if it's i'm not sure what's happening with
contra but um yeah it kind of seems like that one they're at least attempting to revive it
but it's not working yeah reviving it in the wrong way for sure yeah they have like the defibrillator
set up and it's just not working yeah they're they're not they're not personally they're not
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trained well enough yeah they got the kid who just finished the cpr course at high school to
attempt to revive their franchise yeah it's it's um it's in a weird position right now i mean like
i'm not sure if they're still pushing away at that random mobile game i'm not even sure if it's
(34:00):
legitimate or not um yeah i mean uh it's surprising because like when i think of contra i think of
games like contra or like and like uh ghosts and goblins or other ones like they kind of feel like
games that are similar and or like uh teenage mutant ninja turtles and stuff like that feels
like that era of gaming and it's weird because ghosts and goblins and teenage mutant ninja turtles
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have gotten decently acclaimed remakes exactly and like soon and contra's just like coughing on the
ground yep yep um yeah i don't know i don't i don't know if uh i think there's they're also
konami as well wow yeah i'm not sure i'm not sure if they're if konami knows the potential of
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how well their 2d games would sell if they actually went back to them
i mean it was a little harder because uh contra i think relied a lot like people liked the um
multiplayer element of it and it's a little harder to do multiplayer especially considering a lot of
it's online now and as much as it'd be funny to have like pair with a random person online
(35:14):
to play through the story mode of a contra game i don't think that's will be a super enjoyable
experience uh yeah i think i think dakota and i can vouch for that when we tried playing
mercenary kings um it's basically just an indie version of contra at that point it's another run
and gun uh yeah it wasn't yeah it was okay it wasn't like the most impressive thing ever it was
(35:37):
just kind of average run and gun yeah so i can definitely see that being a potential issue and
a potential reason why konami is a little hesitant but definitely not for castlevania okay that's
that's oh yeah they need i think i think between the two the priorities are castlevania first
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contra like third yeah yeah they they need to do something like that um oh i do have one honorable
mention kind of uh i'm not sure if mr sakurai was ever interested in going back to kirby but i'd
love to play a modern day sakurai kirby game that isn't just a remaster that's it's true to a degree
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although i i do think people right now like kirby just got his first proper 3d game so going back
to 2d people might be like no dang it please yeah that would be that would be pretty jarring of uh
but you know um it'd be nice to see him at the helm if you ever got the chance to or if you had
(36:44):
the desire to do so um the series is already doing fine it's just um we weren't really impressed with
the last 2d game yeah they released so something a little more meatier would be would be would be a
little fun definitely pleasant to listen like to to see yeah thank you for joining us and discussing
(37:06):
what games we would like to see in 2d whether it be a revival or a remake we would love it if you
could follow us on twitter and listen to future episodes on spotify and itunes join our community
discord server to continue today's discussion and we'll see you next time on the switch clicks podcast
After seeing Nintendo and Sega make a grand return to their flagship 2D franchises,
(00:04):
we'll be looking into other series of games that could also be revived in the 2D genre.
Welcome to the Switch Clicks Podcast, episode 142, recorded on June 27th, 2023.
My name is Nathan, and I'm joined by my fellow co-host, Tyler.
Hello!
So yeah, as of recently, we've all saw on YouTube that Sega's bringing out that new 2D Sonic game.
(00:31):
Also, there's also the Sonic Origins Plus that they're also releasing.
And Nintendo also announced that they're bringing out Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Not New Super Mario Bros. Wonder for whatever reason.
And they're also bringing out another 2D Super Princess Peach game?
I don't know if that's been delved into.
(00:53):
It's not quite clear if it's gonna... it looks like it's gonna be 2D.
It's kind of how they're marketing it, in that like 30 seconds.
Yeah, Super Princess Peach 2?
Oh.
Who knows, maybe.
That would be surprising, to say the least.
I think I also saw that Rayman might be making a return as well, which is another guy in the 2D
(01:23):
platformer genre that has been gone for quite a while.
At least I think he's showing up...
It might not be like a full Rayman game.
It could just be like he shows up in Mario Rabbids or like a Rabbids game.
But either way, that's a good sign for like Rayman Legends 2 or something.
(01:45):
I would love for them to bring us another Rayman game, for sure.
Those games are so fast-paced and it's just so smooth to play.
Yeah, Tyler and I came up with a list of other franchises that we think could make a
so-called ambitious 2D revival, because I feel like this genre has been
(02:05):
so increasingly popular with all these indie games coming around.
Yeah, indie games have really been knocking the 2D platformer genre out of the park.
And it's going to be interesting to see that more companies are going back or trying to make 2D
platformers now.
So it's going to be weird because indie games have quite a chokehold on it right now.
(02:25):
So who knows if AAA will be able to keep up?
Yeah, it's pretty shocking too.
The indie games have kind of set this really high standard that even some AAAs couldn't meet.
Oh yeah.
Like even Metroid Dread, for example, that couldn't really compete against some of the
bigger Metroidvanias out there like Hollow Knight.
Mm-hmm.
(02:46):
Yeah, or like I would say like Celeste is probably about as well regarded as like even Mario 3.
Exactly.
Like people adore both of those games.
So it's going to be interesting seeing like Mario try to make a proper 2D platformer in
(03:08):
a weird like a market where Mario isn't the primary 2D platformer guy.
Yeah.
And even not Nintendo or Sega, like there's the Prince of Persia game that was shown off.
Yeah, that's right.
Which is also a 2D platformer.
I feel bad for the fan base and for going through that unnecessary fire.
(03:31):
Yeah, that game looks really exciting.
So do you want to get started or do you want me to start off with the list?
I'll get started. Why not?
We have the topic of Mario a lot and Mario is getting a new 2D platformer.
However, there's a little like weird niche depth like a hole in the Mario world that isn't really
(03:57):
brought up very often that I think would be cool if they made a Mario game in the style of Mario
2 again or I guess another Doki Doki panic but marketing it as Mario 2 2 could be an interesting
way or like Mario returned to I don't know what the world's called in that game but that's just
that's a completely different style of Mario game that was done I guess because of budgetary reasons
(04:24):
and pretty much yeah and also localization tapped and like what Wart has been in two games
since yeah it's a very small number of games unfortunately we can get the Mauser comeback
Yes, we need Mauser again. It's crazy to think that like Mario 2,
(04:48):
Western Mario 2, is kind of that like sore thumb in the series even though like and
Nintendo's like only ever revisited this concept once I think in one of the Super Mario Advance
games I forget which one it was um Super I think it was like a remake of oh shoot I am completely
(05:13):
blanking on this one it was basically one of the Game Boy Advance versions of these games and then
they they kind of added new content one of the games added new levels that you can get through
these scan cards because because yeah because the GBA had like some some reader or something
that you could buy um the e-reader I think yeah the e-reader and these unlocked levels that were
(05:37):
basically like a complete crossover of all of the original Mario games like you had something from
Super Mario World something from Mario 3 something from Mario 2 slash Doki Doki Panic all in one
level basically yeah like all the mechanics complete there there's also um in Super Mario Maker 2
(05:57):
there's the power up that gives you Super Mario Bros 2 powers where you can like yeah blocks and
stand on enemies yeah uh which is insane choice like I know it's only the maybe uh second slash
third game in the Mario series but uh the fact that you can't stomp on people is a very funny
(06:20):
choice for when the game came out I know just trying to trying to kill those shy guys at the
very beginning like why can't I kill them it's yeah it's such a weird part of Mario history that
I'm surprised has like they haven't even like attempted to try it again yeah it's it's been
(06:41):
like it's it's that experimental side that it's so good yet they completely decided to abandon it or
move on yeah um I'm not sure I don't think Super Mario Wonder is gonna dive into this either
because I mean judging by it still kind of looks more like mainline Mario Bros game I would be
(07:04):
intensely surprised if anything from Mario 2 shows up in Mario Wonder outside of like shy guys or
Birdo like the things that have become popular out of it yeah too bad we're probably never
gonna see Mauser again unfortunate rip to a legend um yeah so another Nintendo franchise that I was
(07:32):
thinking that could get a 2e revival this has been kind of trend not trending on Twitter but
I've I've heard rumblings about it um it's uh either a Zelda 2 remake or something designed
to be similar to Zelda 2 speaking of the odd second child in a uh popular video game series
(07:53):
yeah yeah it just so happens to be the odd experimental second child
Zelda 2 I think most definitely needs a remake I don't think people are able to survive the game
even with that um sp edition that they have on NSO where they oh yeah where they give you like
max stats and items um I think the game definitely needs a bit of a facelift and
(08:19):
better balancing with mechanics with um yeah enemy stats um difficulty spikes like uh especially when
you look at like Link's Awakening which was hard for people to get into because it was a Game Boy
game and you had like uh what was it you you had like a really small amount of items you could hold
at a time yeah some weird mechanic like that uh I think Zelda 2 falls into a similar thing
(08:44):
where it's such a hard I think I've seen people play the game and it does like I'm weirdly
interested in trying it out uh and it's weird that you you don't like it's so hard to get into just
because it's an old game that kind of sucks all things considered yep um and it's really fun it's
(09:07):
really interesting because this was like kind of a 2d RPG in that sense and you'd expect to be like
you'd expect it to get easier as you keep going forward but my goodness like I do not know how
people survive this game back then I still don't know how people survive this game today I remember
watching I think like a youtuber play it and they spent like an hour on those guards that you have
(09:31):
to hit in the head trying to figure out how to get past them and I'm thinking like how does like a
small child figure out to jump and attack like hit the guard specifically in the head that's the only
way you can damage them because there's no indicator yeah there needs to be something that makes it
seem a little obvious not not a not a cyclops eye but you know something a little noticeable
(09:56):
like a big gem on their head or something yeah yeah um oh and also the controls could use a
facelift too I don't think that game was really well like I think was limited by the the famicom
nes controller like you couldn't really do much with two buttons start select and a d-pad I feel
like they could they could definitely dive in more you did mention earlier about the links awakening
(10:21):
remake and it was crazy because some of those items in the in the in the original game
basically gave you base like they gave you basic tasks like lifting a pot for example you needed
an item for that and for whatever reason they put in an item slot they put those in an item slot
instead of like a background passive effect it was so painful I was glad to play the remake
(10:49):
and like uh the ways they could like they could go with a similar like uh toy-ish kind of look
that the links awakening remake had but I'm not sure if that would entirely fit I think a cool
way to do it would be to go for like um almost like um hollow knight are drawings essentially
(11:13):
they're not sprites so if you were going for like the links awakening opening like the animated any
like the actual like anime-ish look for the game I feel like that is an easy enough way to do it
because most 2d games now unless they're going for a pixel art look you could have like a really
(11:35):
pretty shanty or something that's using um a a more just illustrated look to it and I feel like
that would go really well considering how much really cool illustrations there are for Zelda that
don't really get represented as much it's it's also a bit crazy to see that um uh like why would you
(11:59):
why would they consider doing animation if it takes a lot more work especially in a 2d environment
like um I've I've I was personally surprised when I found out how Microsoft um or at least the devs
of Ori of the Ori games worked on the game and I found out why it took them so long to port the
games over to the switch it was because the game was like fully animated and the backgrounds were
(12:25):
actual 3d backgrounds like they weren't they weren't hand drawn they weren't uh still images
in the background they were vibrant real 3d like 3d generated backgrounds cool and I think uh with
with all those like with that much work in mind I don't think I think it'd be better for them to
(12:45):
resort to the drawing style that you mentioned and I think it also make it look a lot more like what
they wanted from the box arts and the magazines and whatnot yeah uh and even like uh as much as the
games are absolutely like abysmal the uh cdi games are at least like if done if you take what like
(13:11):
the cut scenes were and essentially like I'm saying the visual style is nice not exactly the
writing or the animation but that was a an interesting look at the Legend of Zelda series
that you don't really get anymore because it's all 3d yeah that's honestly that's the one that's
(13:37):
honestly the one redeeming factor about the cdi games is that everything's drawn it's yeah it's
interesting it may not look very pretty it looks a little bit like mspaint art yeah at least
at least there was like an attempt at it looking nice at some point down the line with today's
technology with all of these with all like you know better colors and um better better tools to use
(14:02):
I think they'd be able to pull it off this time and not not muck it up like the cheap mspaint
looking animations of cdi oh my gosh
what we're saying is we want a cdi remake I think I think that's what sure I think that's what the
(14:24):
moral of this story is if I'm being honest the cdi remake could also be warranted too could be
interesting for sure it was plagued by the same issues that um Zelda 2 was in terms of
yeah or limitations it was also a 2d platformer right it was a 2d platformer yeah yeah um it's
like the only other one in the series yeah the only two other games in the series and they were
(14:48):
really just plagued by you know lack of quality control and controllers but if they were to remake
it it'd actually be pretty easy too huh well fair enough I guess I guess it could work as insane as
it sounds um anyways uh moving on do we want to go to your second option or do you uh sure I mean
(15:14):
it'll be my last one but that's perfectly fine and it's a little bit of a cop-out because it's
only been like two years two years maybe maybe three um three I just really want a Mario Maker
3 I just want one it's always cool when the games come out whenever Mario Maker comes out everyone's
so excited to play there's so many levels the gimmicks are always like all a bunch like the
(15:38):
the initial moment of discovery for it it's just super cool and it hasn't been very long but I
just really want a Mario Maker 3 at some point soon I think it's inevitable I think it's inevitable
to be honest um with Super Mario what was Super Mario Wonder coming out oh yeah of course of
course gonna do that later down the line maybe even throw in some 3d Mario games as well
(16:02):
I wonder if Mario Super Mario Maker 2 didn't sell as well as they were hoping because it looked like
there was definitely plans for DLC that just never happened yeah that game just didn't really
feel as big as the first one when you think about it I guess in the grand scheme of things it only
added like a handful of things um and I have to say I still think that Mario Maker 1's 100 Mario
(16:26):
mode is much better than endless Mario of Mario Maker 2 I strongly agree with that
but the super worlds are really fun and I hope they come back for the third one
um yeah there's really not much else we could go off of based on Mario Maker because they basically
(16:47):
introduced introduced everything we wanted to but there's still more like yeah you have to get like
really niche with it if you're gonna there's yeah but there are still Mario games that they
could add to it like imagine if they added um like Super Mario Galaxy or Super Mario Sunshine
functionality but in 2d yeah oh yeah for sure any of the 3d games could work so well they have it
(17:09):
as a mushroom but going full Mario 2 could also be fun because that means there's a lot more enemies
you can add in there um or even if you want to get crazy with it you can add like Yoshi's Island
stuff yeah or yeah add Yoshi's Island add a Donkey Kong uh yeah country that would be but you can
(17:30):
play as Mario in it yeah you just get crazy with it you can make it like you can play get funky
add the funky mode
I think that would be an amazing idea yeah you could have like it where Yoshi and Donkey Kong
and like Wario are you can use like the stuff from their games but also now you can it's like
(17:57):
you combine it all so you can have like Wario and Mario 1 but he has his move set as Wario oh my
gosh she just gave me another idea to add to the list oh boy I think you already know what this is
I think I might all right I'm honestly surprised I didn't think of it because I love the games so
much me too okay let's just say it's Wario land yes for sure please please give us another Wario
(18:23):
land Nintendo Wario land 4 is so so good but so so short they need to give another or at least you
know even if they gave us a Super Mario Bros game give us Wario in that please yeah have him like
there's a villain or something yeah we we haven't seen Wario in a mainline Mario game in years yeah
(18:44):
he's been stuck in Wario where purgatory
I don't want another even if they do just like Wario land shake it again which isn't like a
great game but it's fine I'd eat it up I mean I guess pizza tower covers that itch a little bit
but yeah I like my gross little guy I know hey actually that gives me an idea what they could
(19:09):
do for the next Wario land game imagine like the next Wario land game combines Wario where stuff
and brings you like quick time events and many micro games I could do along the way micro game
it's like um you know okay bear with me here all right do you know in five nights at Freddy's
(19:30):
ultimate custom night how you're kind of bombarded in the middle of your game with like annoying
mini games yeah yeah you do that except it's micro games and they only show up in like the final
platforming sections where you're running through the level all over again oh my gosh now you have
to deal with like an additional like pop-up micro game that could be a fun way to do it I would I
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would honestly kill for a game that brings those two games to series together oh that'd be so good
Wario where land Wario where land there you go oh wow that's crazy that we just came up with that
like a meat like that can oh please do this please do this Nintendo I know you're listening
(20:18):
speaking of begging for Nintendo I know this is technically not completely Nintendo was this more
begging mr sakurai here but uh can we get another 2d kid Icarus game yeah I think that's a fun way
I I 100% like I don't I'm p they're NES games but I don't love 2d kid Icarus how it originally was
(20:45):
kid Icarus and there was a kid Icarus too unlike the Game Boy right yep yeah yeah I I think there's
definitely stuff they could do to make it better because well obviously the games aren't great
but um like uh my thought like when you say like new 2d kid Icarus game it the the Prince of Persia
(21:09):
game like even the gameplay kind of seems like something they could do like it would be like a
fast-paced action it's like combining the two games almost that would be that would actually
be pretty interesting um I'm not sure if uh Ubisoft could dive into that too yeah I don't know how
(21:31):
willing Nintendo would be to release uh any franchise from their their hands but I guess
if they're gonna do with any kid Icarus isn't exactly the most lucrative one yeah yeah I mean
um especially since um well I mean even sakurai himself he's already done a lot of 2d stuff
(21:54):
already so it's not it wouldn't be as surprising um something on my mind earlier right oh okay
Ubisoft already has a bunch of experience with um Greek mythology I don't think they
I don't think they'd be ignoring kid Icarus at all so yeah that I think that would be quite cool I
don't know a ton about kid Icarus like I've attempted the first game yeah I've never touched
(22:20):
any of the other ones which um is not a great thing not something I'm super proud of to be fair
but I think just any like kind of obscure Nintendo franchise getting a new game
would be very good very fun um oh oh my gosh I came up two more ideas actually right right on
(22:49):
the spot here uh the first one is Gyromite uh I'd love to get another I'd love to get a modern day
Gyromite game is is that like one of the games that came with Rob yep one of the Rob games
probably the more the better known one um you know come on just give us give us something
Gyromite I'd be I'd be nice to have uh the second one is Ice Climbers um yeah this could be
(23:15):
this could be like astonishing to me yeah that the like unknown characters from Super Smash
Brothers didn't get like a mini revival game when they were brought to Smash Bros I know especially
Ice Climbers like yeah my gosh they only got one game and then you just gotta capitalize off the
who's that factor yeah that's that's how Fire Emblem came to the west um yeah Ice Climbers could
(23:42):
be probably one of the best designed co-op games co-op platformer games if they designed to do that
um have you seen that uh it's a rage game with two penguins attached to a string no I have not
actually uh so there's two penguins they're attached to a string and it's an online co-op
game but probably local as well uh where both one person controls each penguin and it's like a
(24:06):
faughty and rage game because you fall off a lot because you're fighting with your teammate
and maybe not to like the same degree but that like each player controls an ice climber mechanic
could be interesting that would be so great too especially if they were going to capitalize on
the switch uh the switch's console design two joy cons give one to each yeah that sort of thing
(24:31):
I could also see like a nightmare motion controls version of this where you have to like
throw the other person up with like throw them up with the switches uh toy motion controls
I would honestly kill for that game too like I wouldn't mind the gimmicks if
if it was a really fun co-op thing yeah if it was good yeah like I've been traumatized with
(24:56):
Mario Bros co-op but that's because it's Mario Bros like with ice climbers if they were to design
the game with co-op like in mind from the very start yeah I would absolutely love it even like
the new Super Mario Bros games their co-op is kind of um it's kind of built around the fact that it's
(25:16):
kind of hard to do co-op so you kind of get mad at the people playing with you yeah and putting
that like emphasizing that in the game design could be fun it's insane that they haven't
touched that yeah like come on haven't they technically made other Game & Watch games
(25:36):
since Game & Watch has been in Smash Bros yeah they basically have um well not that I can think of
uh like from the top of my head but I know Game & Watch lasts pretty long longer than ice climbers
like ice climbers and Rob those are the only characters that haven't got a touch up
(25:58):
yeah I guess I guess Rob half counts I don't know uh they only yeah he's barely a game character in
the first place yeah he's barely one to begin with he's just multiple game characters or he's just
like he's just like yeah I don't know I don't know what else to say he's a reference to Nintendo
history rather than a character like a character from a well-known video game yeah like we only
(26:23):
know Rob because he's the villain he was the first villain of Brawl yeah other than that yeah that's
a little we need some more light Smash Bros he'd be in like one of those um YouTube videos like
did you know Nintendo and they're talking about like the card game history and stuff oh my gosh
(26:45):
um anyways I think we have a couple more games on this list here um I don't know
oh yeah uh Castlevania is my first option my other first option that's non-Nintendo uh technically
it has been revived through death cells but you know it's that was the code nabi didn't really
(27:07):
work on that game they just gave the approval yeah if you were to get a legitimate Konami made
uh castle 2d Castlevania game um I don't care which style of gameplay that are going for if it's
Super Castlevania 4 or if it's uh Symphony of the Night Symphony of the Night just give us
another 2d Castlevania another surprising thing that they haven't done considering like when you
(27:31):
look up best 2d platformers of all time on google Symphony of the Night is always up there yeah and
then the whole the whole name of the genre literally this is one of the two franchises
that define that genre Metroidvania why why can't why aren't they capitalizing on that
even if they do like a remake of Symphony of the Night because that's kind of how they tends to go
(27:52):
with these like make a remake first and if it sells well make a new game yeah that's pretty much what
Nintendo did actually yeah that's exactly what they did with Metro did they they had the Samus
returns into Madrid uh yeah remarkable that there hasn't have there been like weird there's definitely
(28:13):
been weird Castlevania games that have come out recently or not maybe not well they released
collections within like the last like 15 years there has to be like one weird ugly 3d game that
came out uh well besides Castlevania 64 which i don't think anyone wants to talk about
uh Castlevania has been on a bit of a hiatus a hiatus basically i might just be thinking
(28:36):
because i don't like bloodstained stuff has come out yeah bloodstained is um is a good spiritual
successor yeah and i think i just might be confusing the two it's still not Castlevania
but it's close enough yeah i fear if you're really feeling it yeah but yeah having another
Konami made one would be cool cool very open very welcome um i think a similar case is happening
(29:00):
with uh actually this is my next game on the list it's uh Ninja Gaiden technically it doesn't it
doesn't need to be it doesn't need a 2d revival but you know what the first game was the first
game was fun in certain ways it definitely revolutionized cutscenes in nes games so and
(29:23):
you know it had uh really fun parkour mechanics for time so you know i'd welcome another 2d Ninja
Gaiden game yeah why not i mean it's a another well-known franchise like i don't personally
like i haven't played a ton of Ninja Gaiden if like i'm not even sure i've played like an hour
(29:45):
of a Ninja Gaiden game but the fact that i know of it means it's at least a kind of well-known
series i mean you basically just need to watch like angry video game nerds review on it to know
to know most of the game fair enough yeah um that's basically like i don't know if if they're
(30:07):
even interested in doing it because they've been more focused on that third person hack and slash
type of game lately like no they've been doing it and they recently i think re-released a couple
games on the switch um but yeah i'd be i'd be down to have some sort of 2d ninja game um you
know it could also be there could also be shinobi for that case yeah either one of those two i'd
(30:32):
welcome for a modern uh revival or remake in that case yeah i i am surprised like a lot of these
like i haven't really thought about most of them in a while but it is very surprising to see like
the fact that a lot of these haven't been touched especially considering how big indy games have
(30:57):
made some 2d platformers uh even like not not like like the big headers obviously are like celeste but
even smaller ones like it feels like there's a decently acclaimed indie platformer every year
from like uh carrion which isn't really a platformer to um owl boy which came out not that long ago
(31:22):
yeah or crazy ones like shovel knight oh it's yeah it is insane that there hasn't been
i don't say it three times you'll summon him yeah um yeah what were you about to say
oh i was just gonna say like reiterate that it's just crazy to me that they haven't touched
(31:48):
some of like their more acclaimed older titles yeah it's crazy like they could capitalize
this so on so easily people would definitely buy it like it's not gonna be a commercial failure
people are gonna buy regardless to try it out they want to see if it's actually good or bad
2d games don't require an open world they're not gonna like the development tie in a 2d game i bet
(32:10):
is like two-thirds of that on a 3d game and that's also that's also cutting away a lot more of the
animation side as well yeah because you don't deal with like different directions you have a fixed
angle yeah you're only working with two planes like even if they're making even like when the
(32:31):
3ds was coming out there wasn't a ton of platform like 2d platformers which is insane because
you get the weight they're like 2d platformers like a handheld dream they both go hand in hand
like you cannot you cannot play a handheld that doesn't have a 2d platformer it just
(32:51):
that wouldn't make sense yeah um i guess there's another one i want to add and say this
surprise final one contra why not oh yeah we need to i mean i think they're kind of has there not
been an attempted re-revive i think there was one yeah mobile there was like one that kind of sucked
right there was a top down one on that came out of 2019 there was also some mobile game that i
(33:17):
never heard of from again for some reason i'm not sure if it's i'm not sure what's happening with
contra but um yeah it kind of seems like that one they're at least attempting to revive it
but it's not working yeah reviving it in the wrong way for sure yeah they have like the defibrillator
set up and it's just not working yeah they're they're not they're not personally they're not
(33:40):
trained well enough yeah they got the kid who just finished the cpr course at high school to
attempt to revive their franchise yeah it's it's um it's in a weird position right now i mean like
i'm not sure if they're still pushing away at that random mobile game i'm not even sure if it's
(34:00):
legitimate or not um yeah i mean uh it's surprising because like when i think of contra i think of
games like contra or like and like uh ghosts and goblins or other ones like they kind of feel like
games that are similar and or like uh teenage mutant ninja turtles and stuff like that feels
like that era of gaming and it's weird because ghosts and goblins and teenage mutant ninja turtles
(34:24):
have gotten decently acclaimed remakes exactly and like soon and contra's just like coughing on the
ground yep yep um yeah i don't know i don't i don't know if uh i think there's they're also
konami as well wow yeah i'm not sure i'm not sure if they're if konami knows the potential of
(34:51):
how well their 2d games would sell if they actually went back to them
i mean it was a little harder because uh contra i think relied a lot like people liked the um
multiplayer element of it and it's a little harder to do multiplayer especially considering a lot of
it's online now and as much as it'd be funny to have like pair with a random person online
(35:14):
to play through the story mode of a contra game i don't think that's will be a super enjoyable
experience uh yeah i think i think dakota and i can vouch for that when we tried playing
mercenary kings um it's basically just an indie version of contra at that point it's another run
and gun uh yeah it wasn't yeah it was okay it wasn't like the most impressive thing ever it was
(35:37):
just kind of average run and gun yeah so i can definitely see that being a potential issue and
a potential reason why konami is a little hesitant but definitely not for castlevania okay that's
that's oh yeah they need i think i think between the two the priorities are castlevania first
(35:58):
contra like third yeah yeah they they need to do something like that um oh i do have one honorable
mention kind of uh i'm not sure if mr sakurai was ever interested in going back to kirby but i'd
love to play a modern day sakurai kirby game that isn't just a remaster that's it's true to a degree
(36:23):
although i i do think people right now like kirby just got his first proper 3d game so going back
to 2d people might be like no dang it please yeah that would be that would be pretty jarring of uh
but you know um it'd be nice to see him at the helm if you ever got the chance to or if you had
(36:44):
the desire to do so um the series is already doing fine it's just um we weren't really impressed with
the last 2d game yeah they released so something a little more meatier would be would be would be a
little fun definitely pleasant to listen like to to see yeah thank you for joining us and discussing
(37:06):
what games we would like to see in 2d whether it be a revival or a remake we would love it if you
could follow us on twitter and listen to future episodes on spotify and itunes join our community
discord server to continue today's discussion and we'll see you next time on the switch clicks podcast
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