July 25, 2024 • 24 mins
BONUS MATERIAL - This is a mid-week conversation Neil & Lindsey had as a followup to our gathering on Sunday.
Many of us have questions about hearing God's voice and how to discern His voice from our own. Lindsey and Neil sat down to have a conversation about some of the things the Lord has shown them over the years on this subject.
To see the video of this conversation, check out the new AROUND THE TABLE YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@AroundTheTable-xs6ld?sub_confirmation=1
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Oh, hello, I feel like I'm sitting at the kids
table, all right.
Well, sitting at the kids table, we are Okay.
So Sunday we talked aboutobedience, a continuation of
(00:24):
what we've been talking aboutfor like three months now the
kingdom of God, qualities andcharacteristics of kingdom
people is what we're talkingabout now.
Kingdom people are family.
They're not just a collectionof individuals who assemble once
a week, but they're family.
Kingdom people understand thepower of their words.
They know that their tongue isa weapon it's a flame Kingdom
(00:46):
people understand that.
And their words.
They know that their tongue isa weapon.
It's a flame.
Kingdom people understand that.
And their words are disciplined, and few Kingdom people are
generous.
We talked about this and then,sunday, we said kingdom people
understand obedience.
So when God speaks, kingdompeople don't wait for
understanding to arrive beforethey obey.
They obey.
(01:07):
They obey by faith, and so ifyou haven't listened to the
message yet, go back and listento it.
There were three points thatwere made.
I'm not going to reiteratethose now, but what was
interesting is at the end of themessage.
You know we want everyone tocontribute to the gathering
questions, comments,contributions, that sort of
(01:28):
thing and so I said is there anyquestions?
Does anyone have anythingthey'd like to add?
And the majority of thequestions that were asked were
not so much about obedience, butthey were about hearing the
voice of God.
How do I know?
It's God speaking and not myown imagination, and so I
thought more about that onSunday night.
(01:48):
You and I talked a little bit onMonday, and one of the thoughts
that I had is as much as itwould be great to be able to
give the quick fix answer, dothis, and then out will come
this understanding that God'svoice sounds like this.
It's not that way, right.
It's a long, slow process oflearning what his voice sounds
(02:10):
like, how he speaks to us, inthe same way that when you and I
met, you were a stranger to me,even though I was infatuated
with you, I was falling in lovewith you.
If you and I were in a crowdand you called out to me, I
wouldn't necessarily know yourvoice compared to someone else
(02:31):
who would call out to me.
And so now that we have 20years under our belt, I know
what your voice sounds like.
But that didn't comeimmediately, it didn't come with
covenant, it didn't come withinfatuation.
It came with time Time spentlearning how you communicate to
me, learning what your voicesounds like, learning the
(02:55):
character that you speak withthe type of things that you say,
getting it wrong sometimes,learning from mistakes.
All of those things can beapplied to how we learn how to
hear God's voice, main pointbeing it takes time.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, human beings are so varied in the way that we
communicate, the way that wegive communication, the way that
we receive communication, theway that we give communication,
the way that we receivecommunication, and you know
(03:34):
there's so.
So often I could hear somethingfrom you and I filter it
through my own lens and I miss90 percent of what you're trying
to communicate to me me and Iend up misunderstanding and
maybe saying the wrong thing orresponding differently than if I
had understanding I wouldrespond, and I think with the
Lord it's similar.
(03:54):
We're human beings learning howto hear the voice of God and
learning how to you know, kindof remove our filter and receive
from him and really understandwhat he's saying.
And I think it takes asking alot of questions but then also
(04:16):
getting it wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I think we put an emphasis on I have to hear the
voice of God.
I've got to get this right.
I think God puts the emphasison I want you to come near to me
.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So good yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
If the priority was you hearing the orders and
walking out the orders, I thinkGod would approach this
differently.
But the point is not so muchthat, as it is, I really want
you to draw near to me, I wantyou to be close, I want you to
lean in and so when weunderstand that, we can then
(04:52):
understand okay, he's going tospeak in a whisper, he's going
to speak sometimes in parablesand riddles, not so that we are
confused, but so that we lean into hear him better, so that we,
like you were saying, askquestions in to hear him better,
(05:13):
so that we, like you weresaying, ask questions so that we
don't just hear from him andthen we're off and running, but
we take his voice as aninvitation into a conversation
that he wants to have.
So now, it's not me listeningfor God to tell me to do
something and then I go do it,but it's me listening.
The God of the universe isspeaking to me and in a similar
way in our marriage.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
If we have a misunderstanding and a
miscommunication, it doesn'tmean that we break relationship
and now we're not talkinganymore or that I start to not
trust you because we had amisunderstanding.
I actually try to lean indeeper, ask more questions and
(06:14):
oftentimes with the Lord, Ithink there's such a fear of
making a mistake and then whenwe do, we pull back and we stop
asking questions and we stopdrawing near and pursuing that.
Just growth in communication,yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Let me interject some scripture in here to back up
what you're saying, because it'sso good Psalm 25, verse 14.
The secret counsel of the Lordis for those who fear making
mistakes.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
No.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
The secret counsel of the Lord is for those who fear
him.
So we're not afraid of makingmistakes, we're not afraid of
getting it wrong, we're notafraid of missing it.
We turn our attention to himand we're in awe of him.
We fear the Lord and because ofthat he shares his secrets with
(07:07):
us.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
One of my other favorite verses on this topic is
Psalm 32.
Psalm 32, verse eight what apromise.
I will instruct you and teachyou in the way you should go.
I will counsel you with myloving eye upon you.
So good, he's not some aloofdistant, far off.
(07:31):
God.
He's entering into oursituation, like Psalm says.
He's intimately acquainted withall of our ways and he counsels
us with his loving eye upon us.
He speaks to us, he shares hisheart with his loving eye upon
us.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I love that so good.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
And then, of course, we can't talk about hearing from
God without John 10,.
Jesus saying I'm the goodshepherd, his sheep know his
voice.
He says this, john 10,.
I'll begin in verse five.
A stranger no.
It's back in verse four, whenhe puts all his own sheep
(08:13):
outside.
He goes ahead of them, speakingas a good shepherd, and the
sheep follow him because theyknow his voice.
His sheep know his voice.
However, a stranger, theysimply will not follow.
They'll flee from him becausethey don't know the voice of
strangers.
The reality is, when we beginwalking with Jesus, he is a
(08:35):
stranger to us and we don't yetknow his voice.
He's a good shepherd.
He understands our frame, heknows that we are his sheep, but
he also understands where onthe journey we are in terms of
our ability to understand hisvoice, to discern his voice.
So, because he's good, hespeaks to us where we are,
(08:58):
knowing that in the beginning itwill sound like the voice of a
stranger and we'll get confused.
Is that my voice?
Is that my imagination?
Is that you, god?
But he knows our frame and he'sgoing to meet us where we are.
But, it's the important thing,he's not going to leave us where
we are.
He's going to meet us where weare, with the intention of
taking us where he's going andwhere he's going is well, like
(09:22):
you and I, 20 years now, we'vebeen doing this.
We don't need to speak to eachother the same way we did when
we first started dating.
Thankfully, we've been doingthis.
We don't need to speak to eachother the same way we did when
we first started dating, right,thankfully, yeah, and jesus
doesn't want that either.
As we walk with him on thisjourney, as we get to know him
in his voice more so, theintention is not to leave us the
same where he found us on dayone, but to bring us to that
(09:44):
place where he can just look atus with a look in his eye or a
particular nuance in his voice,and we know what he's saying.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
You want to bring up that Elijah thing.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, so this morning Neil and I went out surfing and
I was out.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
We got hammered.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yes, really bad.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I feel like I have half the Pacific Ocean in my
head right now.
Yes, same, really bad.
I feel like I have half thePacific Ocean in my head right
now.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yes, same.
But as I was out in the stillwater and just kind of sitting
on the board no-transcript, Ican speak softly, you know and I
was like, of course you know,my mind was kind of on us having
this conversation today, and sowhen we got in from surfing I
(10:30):
thought, oh, I need to look upthe passage where Elijah is
fleeing from Jezebel, and itsays that God comes to him in a
still small voice, and so I wassitting with it this morning,
and so I was sitting with itthis morning and I was, you know
.
It says that Elijah fled toMount Horeb, which is the mount
of God, and it was called thisbecause this was a mountain of
(10:55):
encounter.
And so Elijah knew this,everybody around him knew this,
and so I picture Elijah,terrified, desperate to
encounter the Lord and hear hisvoice like knowing I need help.
So he runs to this mountainwhere Moses encountered God in
(11:15):
ways that you can't deny thatGod was there the thunderings,
the lightnings, like thepresence of the Lord.
So Elijah runs to this placeand he doesn't encounter God in
the earthquake or the fire, orthe wind, and you know these are
all ways that God showed up toa prior generation with fire,
(11:39):
the burning bush, and it gotMoses's attention.
But God didn't choose to speakto Elijah that way.
He chose to speak to him with astill small voice and Elijah
knew it, and it was that voicethat brought him out of the cave
where he could have aconversation with the Lord, so
good.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
So it was an invitation into a conversation.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It was and it actually to me was an
encouragement.
You know was and it actually tome was an encouragement.
You know, god can speak howeverhe wants to, but we can't
assume, because he's spoken acertain way to a prior
generation or because he'sspoken a certain way to you,
that that's what I need toexpect and it's part of that
(12:21):
relationship, and it's part ofthat relationship us learning
how is he communicating to meand walking that out so we don't
miss it, because we're lookingfor the way that he speaks to
you.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah.
So I want to point outsomething.
I picked this up today off thebookshelf.
I got this man 15 some yearsago.
It's a book I would highlyrecommend.
It's by Jack Deere.
It's called Surprised by theVoice of God, and I remember
this book.
It helped me so much when youand I were making a transition
(12:58):
from a relationship with Godthat was solely focused on the
Bible into a life of the spirit,where not only is he speaking
in his written word, but he isalso speaking to us through his
Holy Spirit, the indwellingspirit of God within a man,
revealing the mysteries of Godto the man.
(13:19):
And that was a huge transitionin our life.
And I remember being so afraidof being deceived.
I remember being afraid ofgetting it wrong, being in error
, all these things.
And I found this book by a mannamed Jack Deere, who also came
out of a similar conservativedenominational background, like
(13:41):
we did, and so I felt like Icould trust his voice.
He, like he, spoke our language.
And then this book helped me somuch.
So I would recommend this toanyone who's wanting to learn
and grow in discerning the voiceof God speaking of God's
humility, and God speaking inwhispers.
Jack Deere says this God'shumility is both a blessing and
(14:03):
a very great problem for us.
A blessing because his humilityleads him to fellowship with
people as low as we are.
So he humbles himself to comedown to our level, wrap himself
in flesh, become a man, enterinto our situation and speak our
(14:26):
language.
This is his humility.
It's a problem for us becausehis humility leads him to come
to us in ways that make it easyfor us to reject him.
It is so good, it's easy tohave the burning bush encounter.
Yeah, it's easy to have theburning bush encounter.
(14:46):
Yeah, it's easy to have theangelic visitation and be like,
okay, that clearly was God.
But when he humbles himself tospeak in a dream or a whisper,
or just that internal knowingwhen you're reading scripture,
just that internal knowing whenyou're reading scripture, when
he speaks in such humble, meek,gentle ways, it's easy for us to
(15:09):
disregard it, ignore it,outright reject it.
This is the tension of beingkingdom people.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, these are his ways.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And then Jack Geer writes this, speaking about how
the birth of Jesus was anincredible act of humility,
obviously, but also who wasthere to experience the birth of
the Messiah?
The humble in the land, themeek and lowly shepherds out in
this manger?
The religious leaders of theday did not experience the
(15:44):
coming of their Messiah.
It was those who had a humilityabout them that did so.
With that in mind, he writesthis.
Desperate circumstances, likeElijah running away from Jezebel
, whether driven to it to hisvoice through desperate
(16:07):
circumstances or having acquiredit through careful cultivation,
the quality of humility isessential for hearing the voice
of God.
That is so good that is so good.
So let's summarize PerfectHumility, yeah, understanding.
Summarize Perfect Humility,yeah, understanding that he is a
(16:28):
humble God.
He's going to speak in humbleways.
We ourselves must have humilityabout us and not expecting the
burning bush or the angelicvisitation to be the only
primary way that God speaks tohis people.
It's not yeah, it's whispers tobe the only primary way that
God speaks to his people.
It's not.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It's whispers and even humility enough to be
willing to get it wrong, becauseI think it takes a really
humble person to risk gettingsomething wrong and trusting
that God's good enough, like hisgoodness is greater than my
(17:05):
mistake.
When my heart is pure and ittakes humility, that's like I'm
probably going to mess up.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, you know, yeah, humility, intimacy, so that
leaning in being the prioritybeing drawn into that
conversation being a priorityasking questions, I was going to
add to that.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Ask a lot of questions.
Don't assume that you know whatGod is saying.
Ask him a lot of questions.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Tell that story of when we moved to California and
the Lord spoke something to you.
You assumed one thing inhindsight yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So when we moved out to California, our, we had none
of our things.
Our house was it echoed.
It was so empty, like no tableand chairs, I mean very empty
home, and I could feel thisinternal agitation, this
(18:08):
internal agitation.
I want to make a home, I wantto have a place of rest.
I was ready to settle and theLord spoke to me one day and
said you need to be okay orlearn how to sit in this
emptiness.
And it really was an invitationfrom the Lord sit in an empty
space and let me fill this space.
And so I knew two things rightaway I'm not to go out and buy
(18:32):
furniture Praise God I couldn'thave done it anyway but I wasn't
to go out and buy furniture, um, and then the second thing was
be okay with emptiness inministry, because we had nothing
to do but be together at home.
And so I was like, okay, I cando that.
I asked no questions.
(18:53):
I'm like I have your orders.
Now I'm off and running.
And I didn't realize.
I found out the hard way.
I would say that part of whatthe Lord, if I would have asked,
I would have known, but part ofwhat he wanted me to also sit
in was an emptiness inrelationship and not try to fill
(19:15):
our life with close, intimatefriendships too quickly, because
we had left a place where thoseintimate friendships were there
and Now they weren't, and sothat was this empty space.
And but he wanted to fill thatspace first with himself, so
that the things that werebrought into that space would be
(19:37):
healthy and whole.
And if I would have askedquestions I would have known,
but I just I didn't ask and heused the mistake to grow me up
into knowing his voice betterand learning to ask more
questions.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, it's so important, trusting that we can
ask him questions.
He's not afraid of the question, he's not offended at the
question.
Yeah, I mean, if you look atscripture, jesus himself was
constantly teaching through thequestions.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, he asked a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
He would use the questions to pull things out of
people, and I think one of thereasons is he's teaching us his
nature.
We can ask questions to pullthings out of him again because
it's that interaction that hewants with us, that intimate
encounter with him, that mattersso much more than getting it
right.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Paul says in second Corinthians two, I think it is
he always leads us in triumph.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
He's going to cause us to get it right.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Romans 8, 28.
He's going to cause it to workout for good, the priority, if
we see it this way, being Jesus.
I want to be with you.
I hear your voice, I'm not surethat's you and then using that
as an invitation to lean intohim more, draw closer to him,
mission accomplished.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, that's what he wants, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
The outcome.
He's going to take care of it.
Yeah, so to tie it all togetherwith maybe a couple of the
bullet points, this big onebeing and which initially wanted
us to, or provoked us to havethis conversation anyway was
there's no quick fix to hearingthe voice of god.
It's, it's part of a journey,it's part of growing in maturity
(21:24):
, it's part of learning.
So just settle in for the longhaul, enjoy the ride and get to
know his voice, and and anddon't be discouraged if there
are mistakes.
Maybe that would be a secondbullet point there will be
mistakes, but that's okay.
He's good.
He's the good shepherd.
He knows our frame.
He counsels us with his lovingeye upon us.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
It's part of the mistakes, are part of us
learning what is his heart andhis nature and what's not, and
that's we have a lifetime ofexploration.
When it comes to knowing theheart of God, that should be
exciting.
Nobody ever arrives at.
I know everything about him andI know everything about his
(22:09):
voice, and now I'm on cruisecontrol.
We get more steady, you know,but it's, we have a lifetime to
search him.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Third point would be humility.
He's humble, we should also behumble.
It's the, it's the humble, it'sthe meek, it's the lowly.
We're the first to receive hisvoice.
So remain in that posture ofhumility.
And then fourth would bequestions.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, ask lots of questions.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Ask lots.
And then fourth would bequestions.
Yeah, ask lots of questions,ask lots of questions.
So when we think that the lordis speaking something to us,
lean in, ask those questions,which leads to maybe a fifth
point would be have people inyour life who you can also ask
questions to yeah so someonewho's discipling you, pastoral
voices, friends that are maybe alittle bit further along in
their walk with Jesus than youare, who you can bounce these
(22:58):
questions off of?
Hey, I feel like Jesus is sayingthis to me.
What do you think about that?
Yeah, yeah, and then in that,in that multiple voices of
counsel man, there's so muchwisdom in that.
So how many is it?
Four, five, six points?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, and I I would say that the like overarching
thing of this all is just tokind of take a deep breath and
exhale and know that the Lordbecause we are all so different
(23:34):
and so varied he communicateswith us in ways that we
personally can understand.
So just because he communicateswith you in a certain way
doesn't mean that that's the waythat he's going to communicate
with me, and if I stay sofocused on hearing his voice the
way that you do, I'm going tomiss it in the way that he wants
(23:57):
to communicate to me.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
So true, yeah, we even see that with our kids.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Like we can't talk to Layla the same way we talk to
Asa.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, it's so true yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Awesome, this is fun.
Should we do it again?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, let's, it was fun.
Should we do it again?
Yeah, let's, it was fun.
It was like talking to my bestfriend About my best friend.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
About your best friend.
Oh, hello, I feel like I'm sitting at the kids
table, all right.
Well, sitting at the kids table, we are Okay.
So Sunday we talked aboutobedience, a continuation of
(00:24):
what we've been talking aboutfor like three months now the
kingdom of God, qualities andcharacteristics of kingdom
people is what we're talkingabout now.
Kingdom people are family.
They're not just a collectionof individuals who assemble once
a week, but they're family.
Kingdom people understand thepower of their words.
They know that their tongue isa weapon it's a flame Kingdom
(00:46):
people understand that.
And their words.
They know that their tongue isa weapon.
It's a flame.
Kingdom people understand that.
And their words are disciplined, and few Kingdom people are
generous.
We talked about this and then,sunday, we said kingdom people
understand obedience.
So when God speaks, kingdompeople don't wait for
understanding to arrive beforethey obey.
They obey.
(01:07):
They obey by faith, and so ifyou haven't listened to the
message yet, go back and listento it.
There were three points thatwere made.
I'm not going to reiteratethose now, but what was
interesting is at the end of themessage.
You know we want everyone tocontribute to the gathering
questions, comments,contributions, that sort of
(01:28):
thing and so I said is there anyquestions?
Does anyone have anythingthey'd like to add?
And the majority of thequestions that were asked were
not so much about obedience, butthey were about hearing the
voice of God.
How do I know?
It's God speaking and not myown imagination, and so I
thought more about that onSunday night.
(01:48):
You and I talked a little bit onMonday, and one of the thoughts
that I had is as much as itwould be great to be able to
give the quick fix answer, dothis, and then out will come
this understanding that God'svoice sounds like this.
It's not that way, right.
It's a long, slow process oflearning what his voice sounds
(02:10):
like, how he speaks to us, inthe same way that when you and I
met, you were a stranger to me,even though I was infatuated
with you, I was falling in lovewith you.
If you and I were in a crowdand you called out to me, I
wouldn't necessarily know yourvoice compared to someone else
(02:31):
who would call out to me.
And so now that we have 20years under our belt, I know
what your voice sounds like.
But that didn't comeimmediately, it didn't come with
covenant, it didn't come withinfatuation.
It came with time Time spentlearning how you communicate to
me, learning what your voicesounds like, learning the
(02:55):
character that you speak withthe type of things that you say,
getting it wrong sometimes,learning from mistakes.
All of those things can beapplied to how we learn how to
hear God's voice, main pointbeing it takes time.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, human beings are so varied in the way that we
communicate, the way that wegive communication, the way that
we receive communication, theway that we give communication,
the way that we receivecommunication, and you know
(03:34):
there's so.
So often I could hear somethingfrom you and I filter it
through my own lens and I miss90 percent of what you're trying
to communicate to me me and Iend up misunderstanding and
maybe saying the wrong thing orresponding differently than if I
had understanding I wouldrespond, and I think with the
Lord it's similar.
(03:54):
We're human beings learning howto hear the voice of God and
learning how to you know, kindof remove our filter and receive
from him and really understandwhat he's saying.
And I think it takes asking alot of questions but then also
(04:16):
getting it wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I think we put an emphasis on I have to hear the
voice of God.
I've got to get this right.
I think God puts the emphasison I want you to come near to me
.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So good yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
If the priority was you hearing the orders and
walking out the orders, I thinkGod would approach this
differently.
But the point is not so muchthat, as it is, I really want
you to draw near to me, I wantyou to be close, I want you to
lean in and so when weunderstand that, we can then
(04:52):
understand okay, he's going tospeak in a whisper, he's going
to speak sometimes in parablesand riddles, not so that we are
confused, but so that we lean into hear him better, so that we,
like you were saying, askquestions in to hear him better,
(05:13):
so that we, like you weresaying, ask questions so that we
don't just hear from him andthen we're off and running, but
we take his voice as aninvitation into a conversation
that he wants to have.
So now, it's not me listeningfor God to tell me to do
something and then I go do it,but it's me listening.
The God of the universe isspeaking to me and in a similar
way in our marriage.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
If we have a misunderstanding and a
miscommunication, it doesn'tmean that we break relationship
and now we're not talkinganymore or that I start to not
trust you because we had amisunderstanding.
I actually try to lean indeeper, ask more questions and
(06:14):
oftentimes with the Lord, Ithink there's such a fear of
making a mistake and then whenwe do, we pull back and we stop
asking questions and we stopdrawing near and pursuing that.
Just growth in communication,yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Let me interject some scripture in here to back up
what you're saying, because it'sso good Psalm 25, verse 14.
The secret counsel of the Lordis for those who fear making
mistakes.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
No.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
The secret counsel of the Lord is for those who fear
him.
So we're not afraid of makingmistakes, we're not afraid of
getting it wrong, we're notafraid of missing it.
We turn our attention to himand we're in awe of him.
We fear the Lord and because ofthat he shares his secrets with
(07:07):
us.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
One of my other favorite verses on this topic is
Psalm 32.
Psalm 32, verse eight what apromise.
I will instruct you and teachyou in the way you should go.
I will counsel you with myloving eye upon you.
So good, he's not some aloofdistant, far off.
(07:31):
God.
He's entering into oursituation, like Psalm says.
He's intimately acquainted withall of our ways and he counsels
us with his loving eye upon us.
He speaks to us, he shares hisheart with his loving eye upon
us.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I love that so good.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
And then, of course, we can't talk about hearing from
God without John 10,.
Jesus saying I'm the goodshepherd, his sheep know his
voice.
He says this, john 10,.
I'll begin in verse five.
A stranger no.
It's back in verse four, whenhe puts all his own sheep
(08:13):
outside.
He goes ahead of them, speakingas a good shepherd, and the
sheep follow him because theyknow his voice.
His sheep know his voice.
However, a stranger, theysimply will not follow.
They'll flee from him becausethey don't know the voice of
strangers.
The reality is, when we beginwalking with Jesus, he is a
(08:35):
stranger to us and we don't yetknow his voice.
He's a good shepherd.
He understands our frame, heknows that we are his sheep, but
he also understands where onthe journey we are in terms of
our ability to understand hisvoice, to discern his voice.
So, because he's good, hespeaks to us where we are,
(08:58):
knowing that in the beginning itwill sound like the voice of a
stranger and we'll get confused.
Is that my voice?
Is that my imagination?
Is that you, god?
But he knows our frame and he'sgoing to meet us where we are.
But, it's the important thing,he's not going to leave us where
we are.
He's going to meet us where weare, with the intention of
taking us where he's going andwhere he's going is well, like
(09:22):
you and I, 20 years now, we'vebeen doing this.
We don't need to speak to eachother the same way we did when
we first started dating.
Thankfully, we've been doingthis.
We don't need to speak to eachother the same way we did when
we first started dating, right,thankfully, yeah, and jesus
doesn't want that either.
As we walk with him on thisjourney, as we get to know him
in his voice more so, theintention is not to leave us the
same where he found us on dayone, but to bring us to that
(09:44):
place where he can just look atus with a look in his eye or a
particular nuance in his voice,and we know what he's saying.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
You want to bring up that Elijah thing.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, so this morning Neil and I went out surfing and
I was out.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
We got hammered.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yes, really bad.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I feel like I have half the Pacific Ocean in my
head right now.
Yes, same, really bad.
I feel like I have half thePacific Ocean in my head right
now.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yes, same.
But as I was out in the stillwater and just kind of sitting
on the board no-transcript, Ican speak softly, you know and I
was like, of course you know,my mind was kind of on us having
this conversation today, and sowhen we got in from surfing I
(10:30):
thought, oh, I need to look upthe passage where Elijah is
fleeing from Jezebel, and itsays that God comes to him in a
still small voice, and so I wassitting with it this morning,
and so I was sitting with itthis morning and I was, you know
.
It says that Elijah fled toMount Horeb, which is the mount
of God, and it was called thisbecause this was a mountain of
(10:55):
encounter.
And so Elijah knew this,everybody around him knew this,
and so I picture Elijah,terrified, desperate to
encounter the Lord and hear hisvoice like knowing I need help.
So he runs to this mountainwhere Moses encountered God in
(11:15):
ways that you can't deny thatGod was there the thunderings,
the lightnings, like thepresence of the Lord.
So Elijah runs to this placeand he doesn't encounter God in
the earthquake or the fire, orthe wind, and you know these are
all ways that God showed up toa prior generation with fire,
(11:39):
the burning bush, and it gotMoses's attention.
But God didn't choose to speakto Elijah that way.
He chose to speak to him with astill small voice and Elijah
knew it, and it was that voicethat brought him out of the cave
where he could have aconversation with the Lord, so
good.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
So it was an invitation into a conversation.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It was and it actually to me was an
encouragement.
You know was and it actually tome was an encouragement.
You know, god can speak howeverhe wants to, but we can't
assume, because he's spoken acertain way to a prior
generation or because he'sspoken a certain way to you,
that that's what I need toexpect and it's part of that
(12:21):
relationship, and it's part ofthat relationship us learning
how is he communicating to meand walking that out so we don't
miss it, because we're lookingfor the way that he speaks to
you.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah.
So I want to point outsomething.
I picked this up today off thebookshelf.
I got this man 15 some yearsago.
It's a book I would highlyrecommend.
It's by Jack Deere.
It's called Surprised by theVoice of God, and I remember
this book.
It helped me so much when youand I were making a transition
(12:58):
from a relationship with Godthat was solely focused on the
Bible into a life of the spirit,where not only is he speaking
in his written word, but he isalso speaking to us through his
Holy Spirit, the indwellingspirit of God within a man,
revealing the mysteries of Godto the man.
(13:19):
And that was a huge transitionin our life.
And I remember being so afraidof being deceived.
I remember being afraid ofgetting it wrong, being in error
, all these things.
And I found this book by a mannamed Jack Deere, who also came
out of a similar conservativedenominational background, like
(13:41):
we did, and so I felt like Icould trust his voice.
He, like he, spoke our language.
And then this book helped me somuch.
So I would recommend this toanyone who's wanting to learn
and grow in discerning the voiceof God speaking of God's
humility, and God speaking inwhispers.
Jack Deere says this God'shumility is both a blessing and
(14:03):
a very great problem for us.
A blessing because his humilityleads him to fellowship with
people as low as we are.
So he humbles himself to comedown to our level, wrap himself
in flesh, become a man, enterinto our situation and speak our
(14:26):
language.
This is his humility.
It's a problem for us becausehis humility leads him to come
to us in ways that make it easyfor us to reject him.
It is so good, it's easy tohave the burning bush encounter.
Yeah, it's easy to have theburning bush encounter.
(14:46):
Yeah, it's easy to have theangelic visitation and be like,
okay, that clearly was God.
But when he humbles himself tospeak in a dream or a whisper,
or just that internal knowingwhen you're reading scripture,
just that internal knowing whenyou're reading scripture, when
he speaks in such humble, meek,gentle ways, it's easy for us to
(15:09):
disregard it, ignore it,outright reject it.
This is the tension of beingkingdom people.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, these are his ways.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And then Jack Geer writes this, speaking about how
the birth of Jesus was anincredible act of humility,
obviously, but also who wasthere to experience the birth of
the Messiah?
The humble in the land, themeek and lowly shepherds out in
this manger?
The religious leaders of theday did not experience the
(15:44):
coming of their Messiah.
It was those who had a humilityabout them that did so.
With that in mind, he writesthis.
Desperate circumstances, likeElijah running away from Jezebel
, whether driven to it to hisvoice through desperate
(16:07):
circumstances or having acquiredit through careful cultivation,
the quality of humility isessential for hearing the voice
of God.
That is so good that is so good.
So let's summarize PerfectHumility, yeah, understanding.
Summarize Perfect Humility,yeah, understanding that he is a
(16:28):
humble God.
He's going to speak in humbleways.
We ourselves must have humilityabout us and not expecting the
burning bush or the angelicvisitation to be the only
primary way that God speaks tohis people.
It's not yeah, it's whispers tobe the only primary way that
God speaks to his people.
It's not.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It's whispers and even humility enough to be
willing to get it wrong, becauseI think it takes a really
humble person to risk gettingsomething wrong and trusting
that God's good enough, like hisgoodness is greater than my
(17:05):
mistake.
When my heart is pure and ittakes humility, that's like I'm
probably going to mess up.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, you know, yeah, humility, intimacy, so that
leaning in being the prioritybeing drawn into that
conversation being a priorityasking questions, I was going to
add to that.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Ask a lot of questions.
Don't assume that you know whatGod is saying.
Ask him a lot of questions.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Tell that story of when we moved to California and
the Lord spoke something to you.
You assumed one thing inhindsight yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So when we moved out to California, our, we had none
of our things.
Our house was it echoed.
It was so empty, like no tableand chairs, I mean very empty
home, and I could feel thisinternal agitation, this
(18:08):
internal agitation.
I want to make a home, I wantto have a place of rest.
I was ready to settle and theLord spoke to me one day and
said you need to be okay orlearn how to sit in this
emptiness.
And it really was an invitationfrom the Lord sit in an empty
space and let me fill this space.
And so I knew two things rightaway I'm not to go out and buy
(18:32):
furniture Praise God I couldn'thave done it anyway but I wasn't
to go out and buy furniture, um, and then the second thing was
be okay with emptiness inministry, because we had nothing
to do but be together at home.
And so I was like, okay, I cando that.
I asked no questions.
(18:53):
I'm like I have your orders.
Now I'm off and running.
And I didn't realize.
I found out the hard way.
I would say that part of whatthe Lord, if I would have asked,
I would have known, but part ofwhat he wanted me to also sit
in was an emptiness inrelationship and not try to fill
(19:15):
our life with close, intimatefriendships too quickly, because
we had left a place where thoseintimate friendships were there
and Now they weren't, and sothat was this empty space.
And but he wanted to fill thatspace first with himself, so
that the things that werebrought into that space would be
(19:37):
healthy and whole.
And if I would have askedquestions I would have known,
but I just I didn't ask and heused the mistake to grow me up
into knowing his voice betterand learning to ask more
questions.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, it's so important, trusting that we can
ask him questions.
He's not afraid of the question, he's not offended at the
question.
Yeah, I mean, if you look atscripture, jesus himself was
constantly teaching through thequestions.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, he asked a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
He would use the questions to pull things out of
people, and I think one of thereasons is he's teaching us his
nature.
We can ask questions to pullthings out of him again because
it's that interaction that hewants with us, that intimate
encounter with him, that mattersso much more than getting it
right.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Paul says in second Corinthians two, I think it is
he always leads us in triumph.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
He's going to cause us to get it right.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Romans 8, 28.
He's going to cause it to workout for good, the priority, if
we see it this way, being Jesus.
I want to be with you.
I hear your voice, I'm not surethat's you and then using that
as an invitation to lean intohim more, draw closer to him,
mission accomplished.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, that's what he wants, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
The outcome.
He's going to take care of it.
Yeah, so to tie it all togetherwith maybe a couple of the
bullet points, this big onebeing and which initially wanted
us to, or provoked us to havethis conversation anyway was
there's no quick fix to hearingthe voice of god.
It's, it's part of a journey,it's part of growing in maturity
(21:24):
, it's part of learning.
So just settle in for the longhaul, enjoy the ride and get to
know his voice, and and anddon't be discouraged if there
are mistakes.
Maybe that would be a secondbullet point there will be
mistakes, but that's okay.
He's good.
He's the good shepherd.
He knows our frame.
He counsels us with his lovingeye upon us.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
It's part of the mistakes, are part of us
learning what is his heart andhis nature and what's not, and
that's we have a lifetime ofexploration.
When it comes to knowing theheart of God, that should be
exciting.
Nobody ever arrives at.
I know everything about him andI know everything about his
(22:09):
voice, and now I'm on cruisecontrol.
We get more steady, you know,but it's, we have a lifetime to
search him.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Third point would be humility.
He's humble, we should also behumble.
It's the, it's the humble, it'sthe meek, it's the lowly.
We're the first to receive hisvoice.
So remain in that posture ofhumility.
And then fourth would bequestions.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, ask lots of questions.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Ask lots.
And then fourth would bequestions.
Yeah, ask lots of questions,ask lots of questions.
So when we think that the lordis speaking something to us,
lean in, ask those questions,which leads to maybe a fifth
point would be have people inyour life who you can also ask
questions to yeah so someonewho's discipling you, pastoral
voices, friends that are maybe alittle bit further along in
their walk with Jesus than youare, who you can bounce these
(22:58):
questions off of?
Hey, I feel like Jesus is sayingthis to me.
What do you think about that?
Yeah, yeah, and then in that,in that multiple voices of
counsel man, there's so muchwisdom in that.
So how many is it?
Four, five, six points?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, and I I would say that the like overarching
thing of this all is just tokind of take a deep breath and
exhale and know that the Lordbecause we are all so different
(23:34):
and so varied he communicateswith us in ways that we
personally can understand.
So just because he communicateswith you in a certain way
doesn't mean that that's the waythat he's going to communicate
with me, and if I stay sofocused on hearing his voice the
way that you do, I'm going tomiss it in the way that he wants
(23:57):
to communicate to me.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
So true, yeah, we even see that with our kids.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Like we can't talk to Layla the same way we talk to
Asa.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, it's so true yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Awesome, this is fun.
Should we do it again?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, let's, it was fun.
Should we do it again?
Yeah, let's, it was fun.
It was like talking to my bestfriend About my best friend.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
About your best friend.
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