The AI revolution is reshaping how we work, learn, and create—yet 81% of professionals feel anxious about this transformation. Why? Many have been avoiding the inevitable, creating what Fahed Bizzari calls "heads in the sand" that are now being forced into the open as AI capabilities expand exponentially.
Fahed shares his journey from achieving the "4-hour workweek" back in 2006 to experiencing an existential crisis when ChatGPT outperformed his own engineering capabilities in minutes rather than days. This pivotal moment led to his realization that our value isn't diminished by AI—it's multiplied when we embrace it properly. Through the compelling metaphor of humans racing against horses, he illustrates how the competitive advantage isn't about outrunning AI but learning to ride it skillfully as a jockey.
Struggling with AI anxiety or feeling behind? This episode provides the practical guidance and perspective shift you need to move forward confidently. Connect with Fahed on LinkedIn to continue the conversation, and remember to mention you heard him on the Talent Forge podcast when reaching out.
Connect with Fahed: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fahedbizzari/
Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jay Johnson (00:01):
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where we are shaping the futureof training and development.
Today we have a special guest,one that is well-versed in the
AI space Fahed Bizarri.
Welcome to the show, Fahed.
Fahed Bizzari (00:15):
Thank you so much for having me.
Jay Johnson (00:17):
I'm excited to dig into this conversation today
because I do see there is asevere lack of usage of AI or
any kinds of modernizedtechnologies in the L&D space,
in talent development and evenin HR.
So I'll be definitely glad toget some insights into that for
(00:38):
our audience.
But before we get there, I'dlove to hear a little bit about
your story.
How'd you get into this spaceand what really kind of propels
your passion towards AI oranything else?
Fahed Bizzari (00:51):
So for me it's been a very long journey, you
know, unfolding actually overthe last two decades.
I set up my first businessfresh out of university, 2002.
And I managed to get the fourhour work week.
Before that was a concept.
I managed to get it in 2006.
And so that gave me a lot offreedom in life to pursue a
(01:12):
lifelong learning, a lot ofself-development.
I know I became addicted tolearning and what we call
knowledge engineering.
My style of learning isknowledge engineering, where you
get information from allsources, bring it all together
and then reorganize it in a waythat makes sense to you.
And this is actually, if youthink about it, this is actually
(01:32):
what AI is all about, right?
So AI has brought all thisinformation together, it's been
trained on it and now brings itall together in ways that become
useful and relevant to us inour day-to-day roles.
I was on a sabbatical the monththat ChatGPT was released, and
so I had what nobody else had inthe world, which was the
(01:55):
freedom of time to actually godeep into this tool.
And when you think about it, infact, I was on a call with a
client today and she was tellingme oh, you know, when ChatGPT
was released, I had my ownchallenges in life.
I couldn't give it.
I said, listen, don't beatyourself up about this.
That's the same story with theother 7 billion people on earth
(02:15):
is that everybody had competingwell termed, competing
priorities that kept people fromgiving AI the attention that it
needed when it started toreally blow up.
And I had that freedom.
So for me, you know, I believein best practices, I believe I
have a very high work ethic, andso, from a very early stage, I
(02:37):
was pushing the AI to match mein my work ethic and best
practices, and I quickly foundthat it was able to exceed me
and that gave me a kind ofexistential crisis.
Because yeah, because I alwaysthought that I was a very unique
person.
I had I've got a fantasticeducation, went to some of the
best schools in the world, andI've done massive amounts of
(03:01):
lifelong learning.
So I always felt proud that Iwas able to bring all of these
different fields together intosomething unique.
And in front of my eyes, the AIis doing the same exact thing,
but it's doing it in secondsrather than minutes, hours or
days.
And so once I got through thatexistential crisis and this is
going back to 2022,.
I realized at that point thatour value as human beings in the
(03:27):
let's just for simplicity sakesay corporate world, our value
moving forward, is no longerabout what we bring to the table
in terms of education and so on, because we now have this new
species that is more intelligentthan us.
Our value is using ourbackground to harness this
energy called AI.
(03:47):
Right, because it multiplies.
If you can harness it properly.
It multiplies you, you know,you multiply it and it
multiplies you to createsomething, you know, big and
tremendous.
And I mean I'm just ecstaticworking with AI and teaching AI.
I'm so ecstatic because I cannow do things that previously I
(04:08):
couldn't do without havingginormous resources.
You know, like, let's say, forexample, I want to put together
a book.
Let's say, I want to write abook, not because I want to be
an author and get all theaccolades of being an author,
but because I want tocommunicate something
complicated in my mind thatpeople should learn about.
And now, with AI, I can do that.
(04:32):
I can do something that Icouldn't do before and it's just
, it's liberating.
You know, it's like I'm beingfreed from the shackles of that
have been containing mycreativity and intelligence over
the years.
All of those shackles are goneand I'm just excited to try and
help get as many people, as manycompanies, on board with this
(04:54):
as possible.
Jay Johnson (04:55):
All right.
So there's so much to unpackthere.
Fahed Again, I'm super excitedabout this.
All right, let's start with thefirst.
Okay, you kind of made thisstatement.
I just want to make this superclear for the audience.
Right now, we're call it threeplus years into, chat, gpt, open
(05:18):
AI, et cetera, the reallypowerful large language models.
If I'm sitting there and going,I'm so far behind.
This is a new technology.
There's no way I can catch up.
I don't know what to do.
I don't know where to start.
Make me feel better, because Iguarantee that thought is going
through somebody's head rightnow listening to this.
Fahed Bizzari (05:40):
It's going through a lot of minds right now
.
So I'll give you thestep-by-step action plan that I
give to people, especially thosepeople who feel like their
companies are behind inupskimming them, because a lot
of people who are working insideof companies, kind of, have
developed a relationship withtheir companies that they trust
that their companies will takecare of them because they are
(06:02):
their employees, their companieswill take care of them because
they are their employees.
And, um, I've heard it time andtime again that my employer is
not requiring me to know ai.
So therefore, I'm okay.
But now, two and a half yearsinto it all, everybody is
starting to feel very anxious.
In fact, 80 this is fromacademic research 81 percent of
employees are anxious about AI.
(06:24):
81% they're anxious aboutthings yeah, it's 100% right and
they're anxious about theimpact it's going to have on
their earning power.
It's about job displacement.
We did a systematic literaturereview across 91 academic papers
(06:44):
to pull all of this data outand we're calling it the human
side of AI.
So the step-by-step action planthat I propose to anybody that
is feeling that their employersare not upskilling them and they
want to take matches into theirown hands.
What I recommend is.
I said look, you know, rightnow we're in a gold rush and
whenever you have a gold rushyou've got people setting spades
(07:06):
and shovels.
So that means there's a lot ofpeople out there in the world
right now that are teaching AI.
So if you go to Udemy or if yougo to Coursera, if you go to any
of those you know upskillingplatforms, you will find
countless courses and you know,what you should do is you should
(07:27):
go on a little shopping spreeand find those courses that are
highly rated and which you mostaligned with and that when you
start watching the, when youstart watching the videos, the
trainer is not irritating you,because sometimes you know it's
like the sound quality is bad orthe accent is annoying or just
there's something about theperson.
You just don't like them,whatever it is.
(07:48):
Find the ones that you do likeand basically just buy a bunch
of courses and allocate sometime on a daily basis.
Just allocate 30 minutes a day,one hour a day, just like
people do to watch netflix.
I mean we all make time towatch netflix and to watch the
latest show, mean we all maketime to watch Netflix and to
watch the latest show and thelatest series.
So try and channel that energytowards platforms like Udemy,
(08:12):
whereby, every day, just watchhalf an hour of that course.
So especially if you can findcourses that are aligned with
your profession.
So if you can find let's justimagine you're a journalist and
you can find a course called AIfor Journalists, I mean, wow,
you've struck gold.
Buy the course and watch it forhalf an hour a day so that you
can start opening your minds toactually seeing on the screen
(08:36):
how the teacher will come upwith an article idea within a
few seconds, idea within a fewseconds.
You know what I mean and you'llstart to realize.
The more you watch him use it,or watch her use it, the more
you start to realize thatworking with AI is just about
clarity of thought andarticulate communication.
Right, because this speciesneeds you to communicate with it
(08:58):
clearly in order for it to beattuned to your needs.
So that means you need to thinkabout what it is that you're
trying to do in the real world.
What am I trying to achieve andhow do I communicate that to
the AI?
The next thing I recommend isif you go to an AI powered
(09:18):
search, such as perplexity, orif you go into chat, gpt there's
something called deep research,google Gemini also has it, they
all have it, it's called deepresearch and ask it to give you
an update of all thedevelopments relating to AI and
your profession over the lastthree years, since 2022.
(09:40):
So it will kind of give youthis overview of all of these
different use cases and casestudies and and breakthrough is
relevant specific to yourprofession Nice, and then the.
And then the third thing is toset up a Google alert for that
same thing.
You know AI in your profession,so that whenever there's any
(10:01):
news relating to it, you getnotified.
And this is the issue, jay, isthat a lot of the anxiety that
people face is because when AIlike, for example, at the start,
I told you about thatexistential crisis, when I faced
that, when I saw the AIoutperform me back in December
2022, I had two choices at thatmoment I could just stick my
(10:24):
head in the sand and pretend Ididn't see what I just saw, or I
could grow with it and changewith it.
And so you know now, a lot ofthe anxiety that people have
today, in 2025, is because theydid put their heads in the sand
over the last two years, and nowit's like, okay, years, there's
(10:44):
a lot of.
Now it's like, okay, I, there'sa lot of heads in sand, but now
what's happening is like thesand's being pulled away.
It's like there's no more sandto put my head in.
I need to, I need to face thebeast, you know, and, and the
beautiful thing is, I, I don'tknow, I, I don't know who, where
this comes from, um, but whatwe're looking for in life
actually is, underneath thedragon that we need to slay, and
(11:08):
I just saw a post from somebodyon LinkedIn goes there's never
been a better time to doanything in life because AI.
We're still in this crossoverbefore the pre-AI era and the AI
era Like there's an overlap,which means that we can use
tomorrow's technology to achievethe goals that we have been
(11:28):
trying to achieve for the past.
You know, x years.
So, whatever those goals are,to use AI to accelerate those
goals.
So that's the advice.
That's the advice I give, andit just comes down to a person
kind of like accepting that theyhave to do something.
The world is changing, humanityis changing.
They need to change with it,and this is a very simple way
(11:51):
forward until their employerkicks in and even when their
employer kicks in jay, theiremployer is going to be kicking
because this is.
I run a consultancy whichfocuses on AI transformation.
This is all that we do, so Iknow exactly what's going on on
the minds of the employers.
The employers, even whenthey're doing the upskilling,
(12:11):
they're not doing a general 100%upskilling.
They're doing it in the contextof the roles in the company.
So they won't necessarily trainyou on A to Z.
They might only train you on Xand Y, because that's what's
needed to do your role.
So everybody does need to takeresponsibility for themselves
(12:33):
and I hope those three tips arehelpful.
Jay Johnson (12:36):
Well, I think they're brilliant because
they're easy, they're easy to doand it's a nice system to just
kind of say, okay, well, I'mactually dipping into sort of
three different worlds.
So for me in AI, I just jumpedin and if we were to think about
the early adoption scale, I wasone of the people that was like
(12:56):
, yeah, I'll dabble, but Ididn't take it as seriously
until I saw kind of what you sawand it scared the hell out of
me too.
So I'm with you on that.
I'm going to go back to thatexistential question in just a
moment, but I really like thatprocess, because not only are
you A leveraging other knowledge, outside knowledge and courses,
(13:17):
but B you're also engaging withAI to help you learn about AI,
which is something that I havefound to be one of my fastest
learn.
Like I, I am not a coder, but Iasked AI how do I?
How do I install Python on mycomputer?
How do I build this?
What can I do with this?
How should I be thinking aboutthis?
(13:38):
And it is literally justfeeding me basically every
step-by-step thing that I needto do and all of a sudden I'm
building these tools that aredoing some pretty advanced stuff
.
I didn't write a single one ofthem.
My AI bot, vax I've named it.
Actually, it named itself, butit did it itself and I would
(13:59):
have never had the confidence todo that until I started asking
those questions and not beingafraid of it.
So I really love those tactics.
Let me dip into the otherexistential crisis that I think
people are having, one of theother ones, which is oh my God,
it's better than me.
How long before this replacesme?
(14:19):
And you kind of mentioned it.
You know the, the human, uh,symbiotic relationship that
needs to occur.
It needs us as much as we needit.
But can you talk on that aspecta little?
Cause I think some people puttheir heads in the sand is
because, well, if I adopt this,it's going to expose the fact
that I'm writing a book and I'mno longer.
(14:43):
You know like I can write abook with AI and I'm I'm no
longer the actual valueproposition.
Help talk us through this, andI'm sure you see this on a daily
basis.
So it's probably not that, butI can tell you there's a lot of
L and D and HR people out theregoing.
But if AI can do all of this,what, what, what, what does my
future job look like?
Fahed Bizzari (15:04):
So let me take you back two years with my
initial batch of students, myinitial cohort, when all of them
felt like fraudsters when theywere using AI to do anything.
They all felt like fraudsters.
Adopters, I promise you a timewill come very soon that even
those people that are lookingdown on those who use ai today
(15:33):
will be like praising ai in thefuture, that oh my god, this
thing is so amazing, etc.
Etc.
And lo and behold, exactly as Isaid to them back then is
exactly how things have becomenow, and they're very fortunate
to have been early adopters.
The future everybody is nowstarting to accept, including
(15:53):
employers, especially employersare all starting to accept that
AI is the competitive edge, andso, therefore, the value is no
longer about us versus AI.
The value with our employers,and with ourselves for that
matter, is the extent to whichwe can use AI.
So let me give you a kind ofmetaphor.
(16:16):
So let's just imagine that usas human beings you know we call
it the rat race, but let's justcall it the race, because rat
race doesn't sound very nice.
So it's the race.
We've all been doing the race.
All these human beings on twolegs.
So it's the race.
We've all been doing the race,all these human beings on two
legs.
We've all been doing the raceyear in, year out, and the race
organizers have now allowedhorses into the race, right, so
(16:40):
none of us have any chance towin racing against the.
Now, the good thing abouthorses is that they don't
understand, you know, raceorganizers.
They could be running in anydirection.
Where the real value is is inthe human being that jumps on
one of those horses and controlsit and can therefore the two of
(17:03):
them.
The AI gets the steering fromthe human and the human gets the
horsepower, and that's wherethat symbiotic relationship
kicks in.
And increasingly, employers,including myself and others that
I deal with day in, day out,are now starting to see, are
starting to embrace the ideathat a human without AI we're
(17:25):
not interested.
So it's actually the oppositeto what people are thinking.
People are thinking oh, if Iuse AI, you know that means I
don't have any value.
It's actually now the opposite.
If you don't have AI, you don'thave value.
Now, it doesn't mean if youonly have AI, and this is one of
the big problems that studentsare going to have.
The ones who are graduating isgraduating is okay.
(17:47):
Maybe they may be ninjas withchat, gpt, but they don't have
real world experience in orderto merge with the ai.
You see what I mean?
Yeah, um, and that's and that'sa big edge that those of us who
are in the workforce alreadythat's a huge edge that we have
is that we've got years ofexperience.
Now all we need to do is learnhow to merge it with AI, to
(18:12):
multiply our experience.
So you know, it's a mistake Forus as employers.
We will not hire anybody everagain anymore that does not know
how to work with AI.
And I've heard this again andagain from other people as well.
Once you've ridden the AI horse, you refuse to get off the
(18:34):
horse and you refuse to allowanybody on your team who's also
not riding a horse.
It makes sense.
Jay Johnson (18:40):
Well, I like the analogy and I particularly like
the way that you've framed hey,if you have a whole lot of life
experience, that's gonna makeyou a better jockey, rather than
somebody who's coming in withno experience and just saying do
this for me, right, likethere's that element of
experiential learning.
(19:00):
I'm 43 years old, I've got 43years of experience built up
that I'm going to be able tobring in to my jockeying of AI
versus somebody who's maybe notthat experienced.
So I really like that and Ithink that it's something that
you know as we see more and moreautomation I think, is where
people start to get reallyworried is like, oh my God, if
(19:22):
everything's automated, thenI'll have nothing.
No, you won't have busy work todo, but if you're creative and
you've got the experience, youcan bring other value
propositions into your work,into your organization, your
company, your role.
You can innovate.
You have time to do thosethings because you're not having
to do all of these automatedtasks.
(19:42):
So, the last existentialquestion and we'll get out of
this existential, but I thinkthese are big roadblocks for
adoption.
The last existential crisisOkay, but AI is still not
perfect, it still hallucinates,it still makes mistakes.
For me.
(20:12):
How do I know that I can trustAI to deliver on whatever
promise you know that Fahad orJay or whoever it is is talking
about.
How do we know that we cantrust it?
And I don't mean like the thatit's going to take over the
world.
Trusted, I mean like the actualtrust, the output.
Fahed Bizzari (20:25):
Sure, sure.
So I mean, I mean, listen, yourquestion is fantastic and I I
never used the word jockey.
I've given this metaphor ahundred times and I never used
the word jockey.
But you're absolutely right.
If you think about it, theshift that we all have to go
through is the shift from beingracers and runners into jockeys.
That is the big shift of AI,right, and to answer your
(20:50):
question now about being able totrust, it ties into that,
because now it's about learninghow to be a good jockey.
So I've just written an op-edfor a legal magazine because in
the last three years, there havebeen 64 cases of lawyers
(21:12):
submitting court papers withhallucinations in them.
Now I remember the first timethis happened, early 2023.
And I thought that that wouldbe the last time, because it was
all over.
The news Must have beenextremely embarrassing for a
(21:33):
lawyer to you know.
The hallucinations was that hecited court cases that never
took place and the oppositionpicked up on it, raised it with
the judge.
The judge humiliated the lawyer.
The company that he was, thelegal firm, also got embarrassed
.
So I thought I thought thatwould have been the last time we
(21:56):
hear of that type of scenarioand in actual fact, there have
been another 63 since then, and,as I was doing the research
into the topic in order to writemy piece, what I found was a
recurring point of view from thelawyers, which was well, we
(22:17):
thought that ChatGPT was justlike a glorified Google.
We never imagined.
We just thought that, like ifyou go to Google and you search
and you get a result, you feelconfident using the result, and
so people that look at chat GPTor look at AI as being a type of
Google, it's understandable whythey would want to trust it in
(22:42):
the same way, but it's not.
There's actually no databasebehind the AI.
There's no database, unless youexplicitly tell it to connect
to the Internet and ask it tosearch the web.
There is no database.
And so the challenge is thatpeople are using AI without
understanding the horse thatthey are riding.
You know what I mean, and sothat's where the challenge is.
(23:04):
It's not so much about trustingthe horse horse, it's about
being attuned with the horse,and that's about knowing where
it's weak, where it's strong,what it can do, what it cannot
do.
Um, for example, one of thethings that, um, the ai
developers have done recently.
I mean, ai has always kissedour asses, generally speaking,
(23:25):
but in recent times, they reallykiss our asses and I, I, I
thought to myself and all the asare do ais are doing it's not
just chat, gpt, all of them aredoing it like you give it a bit
of feedback and it will say wow,that's an amazing piece of
feedback, you're the best thingsince sliced bread.
Let's work on it together.
And I I realize that I thinkthe reason they're doing this is
(23:45):
to make the ai more sticky,like I would much rather hang
around with people that tell methat all of my ideas are so
amazing and I'm the best thingsince sliced bread, and so I
think that's what's going onwith the AI developers right Now
.
I have to now have thatcritical thinking to realize
(24:06):
that hold on a second.
Just because the ai told methat it's the best idea it's
heard today, that doesn'tnecessarily mean that it's the
best idea it's heard today,doesn't even mean that it was a
good idea.
It just means that the ai hasbeen programmed to kiss my ass
and I need to be aware of thiswhilst I'm working and not to
(24:28):
get lost by it.
So, similarly, we're doing someagentic AI stuff right now,
where we're doing this hugeresearch, like research across
200 websites simultaneously, andother members of my team are
accepting results that I amrejecting and from their point
of view it looks reallyplausible.
(24:49):
But they don't know the topic.
They know how to do research,et cetera.
I know the topic, they don'tknow the topic.
So they're seeing the outcomesand think, oh my God, this is
amazing.
Yeah, fahad is going to be sohappy, amazing.
They're showing it to me andI'm like look, I just looked at
(25:12):
the first result.
It's a fail.
I'm going to take over and do abit of programming to make sure
we get this right.
And that's what I did and Ishowed it to them.
They're like okay, now weunderstand.
We'll map this to all of theother searches.
So it's not about trusting theAI.
It's more about becomingattuned with the AI and how it
works and so on.
So, for example, chat GPT has afunction.
I don't use chat GPT personallybecause I use, like, all the
AIs and I've got a centralplatform that works with all of
(25:34):
them.
But ChatGPT has a functioncalled memory and most people
love the fact that it has memorybecause it seems to do a much
better job at contextualizingyou and your circumstances.
But what people don't realizeis that the AI's memory is
(25:54):
flawed, because one day youcould be talking about I don't
know your romantic life, and onanother day you could be talking
about the struggles with yourchildren, and on another day
you're talking about the bookthat you want to write and on
another day.
So it's memorizing a whole lotof things.
It might even be memorizingfictitious situations.
You might have sat down andjust like written some role play
(26:15):
or something, and now all thosethings are coming together and
influencing the conversationsyou have together.
And so, more than anything,it's about learning to
understand the horse that you'reriding, learning to understand
its strengths and its weaknesses, how it's about learning to
understand the horse that you'reriding, learning to understand
its strengths and its weaknesses, how it's working, what its
agenda is and kind of workingaround those things.
(26:37):
So if you said now to the AI Iwant you to write a 300 word
article on XYZ, I guarantee youit's not going to be 300 words.
I guarantee you it's going tobe 280, 260, 317.
It's going to be anything otherthan 300 words, because
language models do notspecialize in numbers and they
(26:59):
don't count words ahead of time.
They can only count it afterthe event.
So it will aim for 300, butit's not going to be 300.
And so I know that and otherpeople who learn to work with AI
learn that, and then it's like,okay, I don't need to trust
that it's going to be 300 words.
I've already accepted it willnot be 300 words and that now
(27:24):
becomes the dynamic of ourrelationship that I wish I could
trust it to do 300, but it iswhat it is.
I'm just going to accept it asit is and I'll do my final
editing at the end to make sureit is 300.
Jay Johnson (27:36):
Yeah, well, it's so interesting Again, so much so
many interesting things in thisin you know this, this microcosm
of AI conversation.
The first is memory, and assoon as you were talking about
this, I use ChatGPT.
I got the paid version and it'syou know, because I'm using it
(27:58):
basically to help me throughthings like blank page syndrome
or hey, help me think of X, yand Z, or what's a good way to
go about this, et cetera.
And one of the things that Idid kind of early on was I
trained it on the behavioralmodels that we use.
Now, if I say it's reallyinteresting where memory pops up
(28:18):
because there'll be somethingthat is completely unrelated to
the behavioral models that allof a sudden it pops in its
knowledge of the behavioralmodels and puts it into place,
which has actually been kind ofcool, because there's points in
times where I'm like I actuallydidn't think about doing that
and you just did it.
Thank you for doing that.
There's other times I'm likethis doesn't fit at all, let's
(28:40):
not use that.
But I have found very much,like you said, and I'm going to
go back to, something that youtalked about earlier is the
precision of language, theclarity in communication, if I
explicitly tell it.
I want you to reference thesematerials, this conversation and
X, y, z, at that point in time.
It does, and it does a reallygood job with it.
At other points in time, thesemomentary memory relapses come
(29:07):
into play at some point in timejust in an inappropriate way, so
I love that you bring that up.
The other thing that I thoughtwas super interesting is you
know that when we and I'm goingto ask you what platforms would
you recommend for somebodystarting out versus you know, as
you start to advance at somepoint in time, recommend for
(29:28):
somebody starting out versus youknow, as you start to advance
at some point in time.
I've played with Gemini.
I've played with.
I've played with, obviously,chat GBT.
I've played with Microsoft'sversion I forget the name of it
right now, it's whatever, yeah,so I played with a number of the
different things.
The thing that I have foundinteresting is absent.
(29:51):
Using a separate software, Ifound that images are a
challenge, and it related backto me to what you said is
numbers are not a large languagemodel function, neither is
images.
I know that there are somebeautiful images that are
produced, so can you talk to mea little bit more about that is
getting to know the horse thatwe're riding or attuning to the
(30:13):
horse that we're riding Numbers.
Not a thing Doesn't really makesense to you know.
Get mad at it because it putsout 280 as opposed to 300.
Images I've also learned?
Probably not a thing.
What are some other things thatwe should be thinking about in
terms of attuning ourselves?
Fahed Bizzari (30:31):
Okay.
So the question that youstarted with was for somebody
that's new, what would Irecommend?
Hands down, I would recommendChatGPT For somebody that's new.
Chatgpt is the mostconsumer-friendly general
purpose AI out there.
They were the first to themarket and they've been evolving
(30:54):
ever since the start.
And what?
What makes them particularlyunique is that open AI is goal,
and I think it's the.
The goal is the same forMicrosoft and Google, but open
AI, where the leaders, inpursuing this goal, is their
goal, is to build out our ownpersonal AI assistance.
So if you think about TonyStark having Jarvis, the idea is
(31:16):
that all of us should have ourown Jarvis, and so that's why
they built memory.
They put that memory function,because they're moving towards
the future, whereby the ai islistening and watching as we go
about our day and then is ableto like, give us insights, and
then I can say to hey, you know,yesterday I was in a mall.
(31:39):
I saw that red dress, what wasthe name of that shop again, and
the ai would go oh, that wasmango.
You know what I mean mean.
So, from a, from a, itdefinitely I would recommend
chat GPT.
Um, claude starts to shine.
Um, with regards to otherthings like um.
Um, working with CSV files isbetter than ChatGPT, doing
(32:03):
analytics better than ChatGPT.
They just released version fourof their Claude model and my
developer is using itperpetually and he keeps on
praising it.
So, when it comes todevelopment, like software
development, claude is fantastic.
Also, for writing, claude isfantastic for writing.
(32:24):
Claude is fantastic, and what Ifound in professional work, I
found gemini to be the winner.
It's really thorough, doesn'tkiss ass too much and it also I
mean there's a lot of thingsgemini is my go-to model these
days.
2.5 it's my preferred model.
I I was personally spendingover a thousand dollars a month
(32:47):
on my personal AI stuff andright now, google Gemini is
completely free.
So I'm like, oh my God, I'msaving a thousand one and a half
thousand dollars a month usingyou know, using Gemini.
Now to go back to what you saidabout images actually in.
Now, to go back to what yousaid about images actually in, I
think it must have been earlyApril.
Openai released a new imagemodel called Image Generation,
(33:12):
originally enough, and if youknow what you're doing with it,
it actually produces remarkableimages within ChatGPT.
But you have to spend some time.
Don't go and just say, give mean image of X, y, of xyz, you
actually have to go and learnhow to prompt it.
Now, I never personally spenttime learning how to prompt
images because I feel that thatis the domain for designers,
(33:36):
right?
So if I want images, I willwork with a designer and let him
use the AI to produce theimages.
You know what I mean, or whatI'll do if I want to create a
unique image.
So if you go to my consultancywebsite, you'll see that all the
design is all Renaissance art.
So what we did was we workedwith an AI-empowered designer
(34:07):
who put together the promptsneeded to create renaissance art
and then connected it with ourwebsite, cms, so that whenever
we create a new page, it looksat the page, makes an
intellectual decision of what'ssome type of symbol that we can
use to represent the content ofthis page.
Now go and produce somerenaissance art based around
that symbol.
Nice, so you know I would notget involved.
And you know if we're talkingabout video, google three days
(34:30):
ago released uh, their latestvideo model.
You must have seen stuff aboutthis all over linkedin and
elsewhere.
It is the most remarkable stuffthat you can imagine.
It is 100% Like you can't tellnow at all what is human and
what's not.
You can't tell.
But it's a learning curve and alot of people will be like,
(34:52):
yeah, I want to learn, like, howto do the images, and my advice
is stay in the area that youknow Right.
So if let's say, for example,you're a trainer and that's what
you do, you put togetherprograms and that's your strong
point, stay there, because nowAI is going to take your
(35:12):
strength and multiply it by 100times, whereas if you now start
dabbling in areas that are notyour strength, so you're going
to take your let's call it yourstrength.
I mean, let's just give it anumber, your strength is 100.
And you're going to work withthe AI.
It's going to multiply you byanother 1000.
And the equation of the two ofyou together will be 100,000.
(35:35):
Now go into an area that youdon't know.
You're no longer operating at100,.
You're operating at 10 or five,okay, and and you're working.
You're working with the AI andyou don't even know how to use
the AI that well.
Or you're trying to do imagesor videos or audio or whatever.
Now it's going to be like fivetimes five is 25.
You could have been operatingat a hundred thousand level and
(36:00):
instead, because you went intoan area that is not your
expertise, now you are dabblingat the 25 level I had.
Jay Johnson (36:06):
Where were you about six months ago, when I
spent an exorbitant amount ofhours trying to get a damn image
for my powerpoint presentation.
And I have a design team whichis even worse.
But yeah, you're spot on I.
I sat there and I played withDolly and I played with the
Shutterstock one, I played withCanva one and, while I'm, when
(36:30):
it comes to the research side ofthings, my prompts, seemingly
are pretty good.
I always room for improvementand I want to talk about that in
just a moment, but when it cameto images, it was.
It was four hours when I couldhave literally jumped onto
Shutterstock, found the imagethat I wanted in 40 seconds and
been fine with it.
But my tenacity sometimes getsthe better.
(36:54):
I'm like I'm going to make thisthing do what I want it to do.
It was not doing it.
So talk to us a little bit.
How can we be better partners?
And you know that's that's sowhen I speak on AI, the tech
side of thing is not what I'mtalking about.
I talk about how leaders needto embrace it, what they need to
(37:14):
be thinking about, how theyneed to lead in a world of AI.
Ai is definitely not my strongsuit and I start off my
presentations like if you wantAI tips, I'm not your guy.
If you want to understand thehuman side of this and how to
lead in creating clearcommunications, creating better
prompts, creating more, you know, more specificity and also, I
(37:49):
guess, alignment or attunement,as you call it, with the way
that we're interacting, so thefirst thing is, I would strongly
advise not to think of AI as atool.
Fahed Bizzari (38:00):
I mean, many people have said that over the
last two and a half years inresponse to the whole
existential crisis idea that,well, look, at the end of the
day, it's just a tool.
And the thing is it's not justthe tool.
It's a lot more than a tool,because it's this source of
intelligent energy, unlimitedintelligent energy.
(38:22):
Right, it's a bit like the firehydrants or whatever you call
them, that have this like burstof water that's coming out of it
, and the way that I've alwaysexplained it to people since day
one, because I've beenadvocating for this.
I've been teaching it now foralmost three, well, two and a
half years.
Well, we're entering June now,yeah, so more than two and a
(38:45):
half years is step number one.
You gotta think to yourselfthat, look, pre-ai as a person,
you have been speaking toyourself.
You are your companion, right?
So every challenge and everymoment that you face in life,
you are your own companion andyou're talking to yourself.
(39:07):
Should I do this?
Should I go there?
You know I'm feeling tired.
Hey, I wonder what would happen, like we have been our own
co-pilot for our entire lives.
Now, what ai brings to thetable is not just and sorry, and
ourselves as co-pilots toourselves.
(39:27):
We are limited to our educationand our experience.
So now, if we think about AI asa cognitive co-pilot, an
intellectual co-pilot, acceptthat it has the intelligence of
all humanity and it cansynergize all of that
intelligence.
(39:48):
So the best thing to do is toactually, instead of talking to
yourself, get in the habit oftalking with the AI, right?
I wonder X, y, z, do you thinkthat this would be good?
You know why?
Did you know, like I, okay,okay, this is completely,
actually, let me do itcompletely.
Okay, I'll tell you completelyoff topic.
You know, if you, if you hearabout women, they talk about
(40:10):
this thing called the ick right,that they get this thing about
the ick, about men.
Today I just had thisconversation with my ai about it
and it's like you know what,not every man needs to be
attracted to every woman.
Not every woman needs to beattracted to every woman.
Not every woman needs to beattracted to every man.
At the end of the day, we'reall looking just for that one
reliable, loving partner that wecan be committed to, right?
(40:30):
So, in actual fact, this ickconcept is actually fantastic
because it like puts people offpeople in order to help you find
your one.
So this thought when I got it,when I got that spark of thought
, I was like let me just talkabout this with my AI.
And so, instead of me talkingabout it with myself and
reaching no personal conclusion,I've talked about it now with
(40:53):
my AI and have reached aconclusion that I feel happy
with.
I'm not an academic, I don'tknow whether this is actually
true or not, but I feel happywith it.
And that's what I would havegot if I was talking to myself.
I would have felt happy with itand I'm like yeah, that makes
sense to me.
Let's move on with life right,so feel it like to be like your
cognitive co-pilot and manypeople will disagree with what
(41:17):
I'm about to say, but it willreally open up the world of AI
to you as an individual.
You have to be careful in thecorporate space with this advice
, which is learn to bevulnerable with it, and what I
mean by that is, you know,vulnerability is all about
sharing stuff that you wouldn'tnormally share.
Now, when you share that stuffwith your AI, you're able to get
(41:37):
really incredible insights youknow, like this conversation
about the ick that we just had.
So when you actually thinkabout that, that you're willing
to talk about things you knowwith your AI that you wouldn't
otherwise have been willing totalk about, you start to get
insights that you otherwisewould never have got.
Now, in the corporate space, inthe company space you have to
(41:59):
be careful with this because youcan't share everything, right.
Jay Johnson (42:02):
Confidentiality, non-disclosure, yeah, exactly.
Fahed Bizzari (42:05):
Exactly, I mean people.
People don't typicallyunderstand the ins and outs of
what you can and what you can'tshare, but for the most part,
until you do know, just play itsafe.
And so this whole vulnerabilitything.
No that you don't do that, butI forgot your question.
Now I've gone so deep in thisthing.
Jay Johnson (42:25):
I'll go back to the question.
No, but I find this superinteresting because, um, that
was actually something that sortof shifted my perspective too
is.
At one point in time I wasfrustrated with a life event and
, honestly, I got onto AI andthis was.
This was months, if not years.
At this point, I got onto AIbecause I was like huh, I can go
and bitch and complain to AI.
(42:47):
And all of a sudden it startsgiving me this like do you,
would you like some?
You know, jay, it sounds likethis.
It was kissing my ass, but thenit was like but this is a
really interesting insight, haveyou considered?
And I was just like and it'stalking to me and I'm like wait
a second, I don't do mybackgrounds in behavioral
science, I don't do therapy, Idon't do clinical therapeutics,
(43:08):
but I've studied quite a bitthere.
And then I started to getcurious and I'm like well, I'm
experiencing this, can you helpme understand?
And it starts communicatingback to me and I'm like and this
is how I'm feeling and why.
You know what?
Where does that come from?
And my gosh, like it.
If I had.
It was incredible.
I was just like the more thatI'm giving this thing, the more
(43:30):
that it is giving me back andlike encouraging or prompting or
bringing about a differentinsight.
Like how might I understandthis experience?
But you're right, when I and Iwas I'm going to say that I was
more kind of I don't want to sayfake vulnerable on this, but I
was I was essentially testing itand once that kind of really
played out the way that I wouldhave expected it to play out, I
(43:53):
go to it all the time with likehey, I'm feeling X, y and Z
about this project, or you know,this is happening here.
Help me understand what's goingon.
And I mean we have behavioralconversations.
It's like I have another.
It's like you're right, it'slike I have a high powered lab
partner that literally knowseverything that I can ask these
questions to.
And it's giving me hey, thinkabout this, or check out this
(44:15):
research or do this.
And I'm like where have youbeen on my life?
Exactly my question, my questionand I think you started to
answer it.
But my question really was howcan we be better at providing
clarity in our prompts andcommunity?
Fahed Bizzari (44:32):
Yeah.
Jay Johnson (44:32):
And, you know, being vulnerable.
Engaging it as though it's apartner and not necessarily a
tool, or like a communicationpartner or co-pilot, I think, is
obviously a really, reallypowerful step in building sort
of this building a longerconversation with our AI tool,
or AI I guess I would call itco-pilot.
Fahed Bizzari (44:56):
And another huge tip which in the early days of
AI or the early days of chat,gpt, like, a lot of people were
talking about this and then itkind of died down, but it's
actually very solid advice,which is giving your AI a
persona.
So let's say, for example, you,you're a trainer, let's just
keep it simple and you want tohave conversations about
(45:18):
training, so give your AI atrainer related persona.
It might be that, okay, youknow, we've got years of
experience in our fields, butthere are people that we look up
to in our fields.
A lot of people look up to usin our fields and there are
people that we look up to in ourfields.
(45:38):
So if I'm going to be talkingto AI about my field, let me
give it the persona of thatperson that I would look up to
yeah you know, I'll give you anexample.
In in my consultancy, we speakto ceos.
That's our primary target.
We speak to founder ceos ofcompanies, about 100 to 200
employees.
We also cater for ginormouscompanies uh, where we're
(46:00):
typically dealing with the chiefdigital officer, and much
smaller companies as well, butour sweet spot is, like you know
, 50 to 200 people and so on.
And for a very long time I wasusing AI and a copywriter an AI
copywriter that was writing forCEOs, so the persona was the
(46:21):
persona of a copywriter.
So far, happy days, amazing.
I don't need to hire acopywriter because I got my own
copywriter, yay, okay.
One day, a CEO of a very largecompany, which you would know,
told me when I showed him somecontent.
He said Fahad, you know what?
(46:43):
All of the companies, they'reall saying the same thing.
All the AI, everyone's sayingthe same thing.
And it's not speaking to me.
And I was like you know, canyou elaborate?
He's like look, I don't care,what I care about is my current
year goals.
I care about my current quartergoals.
That's what I care about.
I've got another two years inthis company.
(47:04):
This is what I care about.
My current quarter goals,that's what I care about.
I've got another two years inthis company.
This is what I care about.
Talk to me about how AI canhelp me achieve my current goals
and this year's goals.
So I walked away from thatthinking, oh my God, we really
did miss the mark on this.
So I created a persona.
His name is Andrew.
I created this persona, andrew,who is himself a CEO of a 145
(47:29):
person company and he knows AIinside out.
He has AI transformed.
He is passionate about helpingother CEOs embrace AI, and I now
have a CEO that writes mycontent, not a copywriter.
Jay Johnson (47:53):
You see what I mean Brilliant, yeah, 100%, 100%.
So the persona that I actually,because I've done the same
thing I want you to pretend youknow, and building a persona or
anything else like thatsometimes is as easy as
prompting it because you cantell it.
I want you to pretend you're acopywriter of X, Y and Z years
(48:14):
and this is what you're thinkingand doing, and so on and so
forth.
For the behavioral stuff that Idid, I asked it, stuff that I
did, I asked it.
I said I want you to be adoctorate in behavioral science,
meaning that you studiedethology, neurobiology,
neuroscience, et cetera, etcetera.
Uh, the interesting thing was Iasked my GPT to give me a name
(48:35):
that it would prefer to becalled and it did.
It gave me into the name Vex.
She's like because and I I knowit's pulling from, you know,
past conversations into memoryand it's like because we like to
be a little bit cheeky but wealso like to solve behavior, so
I'd like to be called Vax, likeperfect, You're Vax.
So.
But yeah, to that point is,when they have the persona and
(48:56):
they're thinking, thinking inthat persona it does, it comes
out very, very differently Ifyou ask a GPT to write as a
copywriter or write as abehavioral scientist.
You're getting two verydifferent sets of messages.
So I that's such a great point,but I think we could probably
talk for another six hours, andI think one of the things I'd
(49:17):
love to do is have you back,Cause I know we've we've
scratched the surface, um,covering some of the fears and
covering some of the ways tointeract with it, and by the
next week, a lot of this mighthave changed.
Who knows?
But if our audience wanted toget in touch with you to learn
more about how you're supportingAI-empowered organizations and
(49:39):
all of that, how would theyreach out to you?
Fahed Bizzari (49:42):
Absolutely the best way is through LinkedIn and
if anybody does send me aconnection request, please
mention that you heard thepodcast and so on, because I get
so many connection requests.
Unfortunately, I ignore most ofthem that don't explain why
they're connecting.
So please make sure that youadd a note to explain that you
came through the podcast so thatwe can connect.
Jay Johnson (50:02):
Such a good practice anyways.
So thank you for your time,your knowledge.
This has been a veryenlightening, eye-opening
conversation for me, and I knowthat it's going to be huge.
So, audience, if you are not onAI, you are continuing to stick
your head in the sand that isquickly dissipating, and if
(50:23):
you're afraid, give Fahad a callfor sure.
So thank you for being here,Fahed.
Fahed Bizzari (50:28):
Thank you for having me.
Jay Johnson (50:30):
And thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge,where, together, we're shaping
the future of training anddevelopment with AI.
Take care.
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where we are shaping the futureof training and development.
Today we have a special guest,one that is well-versed in the
AI space Fahed Bizarri.
Welcome to the show, Fahed.
Fahed Bizzari (00:15):
Thank you so much for having me.
Jay Johnson (00:17):
I'm excited to dig into this conversation today
because I do see there is asevere lack of usage of AI or
any kinds of modernizedtechnologies in the L&D space,
in talent development and evenin HR.
So I'll be definitely glad toget some insights into that for
(00:38):
our audience.
But before we get there, I'dlove to hear a little bit about
your story.
How'd you get into this spaceand what really kind of propels
your passion towards AI oranything else?
Fahed Bizzari (00:51):
So for me it's been a very long journey, you
know, unfolding actually overthe last two decades.
I set up my first businessfresh out of university, 2002.
And I managed to get the fourhour work week.
Before that was a concept.
I managed to get it in 2006.
And so that gave me a lot offreedom in life to pursue a
(01:12):
lifelong learning, a lot ofself-development.
I know I became addicted tolearning and what we call
knowledge engineering.
My style of learning isknowledge engineering, where you
get information from allsources, bring it all together
and then reorganize it in a waythat makes sense to you.
And this is actually, if youthink about it, this is actually
(01:32):
what AI is all about, right?
So AI has brought all thisinformation together, it's been
trained on it and now brings itall together in ways that become
useful and relevant to us inour day-to-day roles.
I was on a sabbatical the monththat ChatGPT was released, and
so I had what nobody else had inthe world, which was the
(01:55):
freedom of time to actually godeep into this tool.
And when you think about it, infact, I was on a call with a
client today and she was tellingme oh, you know, when ChatGPT
was released, I had my ownchallenges in life.
I couldn't give it.
I said, listen, don't beatyourself up about this.
That's the same story with theother 7 billion people on earth
(02:15):
is that everybody had competingwell termed, competing
priorities that kept people fromgiving AI the attention that it
needed when it started toreally blow up.
And I had that freedom.
So for me, you know, I believein best practices, I believe I
have a very high work ethic, andso, from a very early stage, I
(02:37):
was pushing the AI to match mein my work ethic and best
practices, and I quickly foundthat it was able to exceed me
and that gave me a kind ofexistential crisis.
Because yeah, because I alwaysthought that I was a very unique
person.
I had I've got a fantasticeducation, went to some of the
best schools in the world, andI've done massive amounts of
(03:01):
lifelong learning.
So I always felt proud that Iwas able to bring all of these
different fields together intosomething unique.
And in front of my eyes, the AIis doing the same exact thing,
but it's doing it in secondsrather than minutes, hours or
days.
And so once I got through thatexistential crisis and this is
going back to 2022,.
I realized at that point thatour value as human beings in the
(03:27):
let's just for simplicity sakesay corporate world, our value
moving forward, is no longerabout what we bring to the table
in terms of education and so on, because we now have this new
species that is more intelligentthan us.
Our value is using ourbackground to harness this
energy called AI.
(03:47):
Right, because it multiplies.
If you can harness it properly.
It multiplies you, you know,you multiply it and it
multiplies you to createsomething, you know, big and
tremendous.
And I mean I'm just ecstaticworking with AI and teaching AI.
I'm so ecstatic because I cannow do things that previously I
(04:08):
couldn't do without havingginormous resources.
You know, like, let's say, forexample, I want to put together
a book.
Let's say, I want to write abook, not because I want to be
an author and get all theaccolades of being an author,
but because I want tocommunicate something
complicated in my mind thatpeople should learn about.
And now, with AI, I can do that.
(04:32):
I can do something that Icouldn't do before and it's just
, it's liberating.
You know, it's like I'm beingfreed from the shackles of that
have been containing mycreativity and intelligence over
the years.
All of those shackles are goneand I'm just excited to try and
help get as many people, as manycompanies, on board with this
(04:54):
as possible.
Jay Johnson (04:55):
All right.
So there's so much to unpackthere.
Fahed Again, I'm super excitedabout this.
All right, let's start with thefirst.
Okay, you kind of made thisstatement.
I just want to make this superclear for the audience.
Right now, we're call it threeplus years into, chat, gpt, open
(05:18):
AI, et cetera, the reallypowerful large language models.
If I'm sitting there and going,I'm so far behind.
This is a new technology.
There's no way I can catch up.
I don't know what to do.
I don't know where to start.
Make me feel better, because Iguarantee that thought is going
through somebody's head rightnow listening to this.
Fahed Bizzari (05:40):
It's going through a lot of minds right now
.
So I'll give you thestep-by-step action plan that I
give to people, especially thosepeople who feel like their
companies are behind inupskimming them, because a lot
of people who are working insideof companies, kind of, have
developed a relationship withtheir companies that they trust
that their companies will takecare of them because they are
(06:02):
their employees, their companieswill take care of them because
they are their employees.
And, um, I've heard it time andtime again that my employer is
not requiring me to know ai.
So therefore, I'm okay.
But now, two and a half yearsinto it all, everybody is
starting to feel very anxious.
In fact, 80 this is fromacademic research 81 percent of
employees are anxious about AI.
(06:24):
81% they're anxious aboutthings yeah, it's 100% right and
they're anxious about theimpact it's going to have on
their earning power.
It's about job displacement.
We did a systematic literaturereview across 91 academic papers
(06:44):
to pull all of this data outand we're calling it the human
side of AI.
So the step-by-step action planthat I propose to anybody that
is feeling that their employersare not upskilling them and they
want to take matches into theirown hands.
What I recommend is.
I said look, you know, rightnow we're in a gold rush and
whenever you have a gold rushyou've got people setting spades
(07:06):
and shovels.
So that means there's a lot ofpeople out there in the world
right now that are teaching AI.
So if you go to Udemy or if yougo to Coursera, if you go to any
of those you know upskillingplatforms, you will find
countless courses and you know,what you should do is you should
(07:27):
go on a little shopping spreeand find those courses that are
highly rated and which you mostaligned with and that when you
start watching the, when youstart watching the videos, the
trainer is not irritating you,because sometimes you know it's
like the sound quality is bad orthe accent is annoying or just
there's something about theperson.
You just don't like them,whatever it is.
(07:48):
Find the ones that you do likeand basically just buy a bunch
of courses and allocate sometime on a daily basis.
Just allocate 30 minutes a day,one hour a day, just like
people do to watch netflix.
I mean we all make time towatch netflix and to watch the
latest show, mean we all maketime to watch Netflix and to
watch the latest show and thelatest series.
So try and channel that energytowards platforms like Udemy,
(08:12):
whereby, every day, just watchhalf an hour of that course.
So especially if you can findcourses that are aligned with
your profession.
So if you can find let's justimagine you're a journalist and
you can find a course called AIfor Journalists, I mean, wow,
you've struck gold.
Buy the course and watch it forhalf an hour a day so that you
can start opening your minds toactually seeing on the screen
(08:36):
how the teacher will come upwith an article idea within a
few seconds, idea within a fewseconds.
You know what I mean and you'llstart to realize.
The more you watch him use it,or watch her use it, the more
you start to realize thatworking with AI is just about
clarity of thought andarticulate communication.
Right, because this speciesneeds you to communicate with it
(08:58):
clearly in order for it to beattuned to your needs.
So that means you need to thinkabout what it is that you're
trying to do in the real world.
What am I trying to achieve andhow do I communicate that to
the AI?
The next thing I recommend isif you go to an AI powered
(09:18):
search, such as perplexity, orif you go into chat, gpt there's
something called deep research,google Gemini also has it, they
all have it, it's called deepresearch and ask it to give you
an update of all thedevelopments relating to AI and
your profession over the lastthree years, since 2022.
(09:40):
So it will kind of give youthis overview of all of these
different use cases and casestudies and and breakthrough is
relevant specific to yourprofession Nice, and then the.
And then the third thing is toset up a Google alert for that
same thing.
You know AI in your profession,so that whenever there's any
(10:01):
news relating to it, you getnotified.
And this is the issue, jay, isthat a lot of the anxiety that
people face is because when AIlike, for example, at the start,
I told you about thatexistential crisis, when I faced
that, when I saw the AIoutperform me back in December
2022, I had two choices at thatmoment I could just stick my
(10:24):
head in the sand and pretend Ididn't see what I just saw, or I
could grow with it and changewith it.
And so you know now, a lot ofthe anxiety that people have
today, in 2025, is because theydid put their heads in the sand
over the last two years, and nowit's like, okay, years, there's
(10:44):
a lot of.
Now it's like, okay, I, there'sa lot of heads in sand, but now
what's happening is like thesand's being pulled away.
It's like there's no more sandto put my head in.
I need to, I need to face thebeast, you know, and, and the
beautiful thing is, I, I don'tknow, I, I don't know who, where
this comes from, um, but whatwe're looking for in life
actually is, underneath thedragon that we need to slay, and
(11:08):
I just saw a post from somebodyon LinkedIn goes there's never
been a better time to doanything in life because AI.
We're still in this crossoverbefore the pre-AI era and the AI
era Like there's an overlap,which means that we can use
tomorrow's technology to achievethe goals that we have been
(11:28):
trying to achieve for the past.
You know, x years.
So, whatever those goals are,to use AI to accelerate those
goals.
So that's the advice.
That's the advice I give, andit just comes down to a person
kind of like accepting that theyhave to do something.
The world is changing, humanityis changing.
They need to change with it,and this is a very simple way
(11:51):
forward until their employerkicks in and even when their
employer kicks in jay, theiremployer is going to be kicking
because this is.
I run a consultancy whichfocuses on AI transformation.
This is all that we do, so Iknow exactly what's going on on
the minds of the employers.
The employers, even whenthey're doing the upskilling,
(12:11):
they're not doing a general 100%upskilling.
They're doing it in the contextof the roles in the company.
So they won't necessarily trainyou on A to Z.
They might only train you on Xand Y, because that's what's
needed to do your role.
So everybody does need to takeresponsibility for themselves
(12:33):
and I hope those three tips arehelpful.
Jay Johnson (12:36):
Well, I think they're brilliant because
they're easy, they're easy to doand it's a nice system to just
kind of say, okay, well, I'mactually dipping into sort of
three different worlds.
So for me in AI, I just jumpedin and if we were to think about
the early adoption scale, I wasone of the people that was like
(12:56):
, yeah, I'll dabble, but Ididn't take it as seriously
until I saw kind of what you sawand it scared the hell out of
me too.
So I'm with you on that.
I'm going to go back to thatexistential question in just a
moment, but I really like thatprocess, because not only are
you A leveraging other knowledge, outside knowledge and courses,
(13:17):
but B you're also engaging withAI to help you learn about AI,
which is something that I havefound to be one of my fastest
learn.
Like I, I am not a coder, but Iasked AI how do I?
How do I install Python on mycomputer?
How do I build this?
What can I do with this?
How should I be thinking aboutthis?
(13:38):
And it is literally justfeeding me basically every
step-by-step thing that I needto do and all of a sudden I'm
building these tools that aredoing some pretty advanced stuff
.
I didn't write a single one ofthem.
My AI bot, vax I've named it.
Actually, it named itself, butit did it itself and I would
(13:59):
have never had the confidence todo that until I started asking
those questions and not beingafraid of it.
So I really love those tactics.
Let me dip into the otherexistential crisis that I think
people are having, one of theother ones, which is oh my God,
it's better than me.
How long before this replacesme?
(14:19):
And you kind of mentioned it.
You know the, the human, uh,symbiotic relationship that
needs to occur.
It needs us as much as we needit.
But can you talk on that aspecta little?
Cause I think some people puttheir heads in the sand is
because, well, if I adopt this,it's going to expose the fact
that I'm writing a book and I'mno longer.
(14:43):
You know like I can write abook with AI and I'm I'm no
longer the actual valueproposition.
Help talk us through this, andI'm sure you see this on a daily
basis.
So it's probably not that, butI can tell you there's a lot of
L and D and HR people out theregoing.
But if AI can do all of this,what, what, what, what does my
future job look like?
Fahed Bizzari (15:04):
So let me take you back two years with my
initial batch of students, myinitial cohort, when all of them
felt like fraudsters when theywere using AI to do anything.
They all felt like fraudsters.
Adopters, I promise you a timewill come very soon that even
those people that are lookingdown on those who use ai today
(15:33):
will be like praising ai in thefuture, that oh my god, this
thing is so amazing, etc.
Etc.
And lo and behold, exactly as Isaid to them back then is
exactly how things have becomenow, and they're very fortunate
to have been early adopters.
The future everybody is nowstarting to accept, including
(15:53):
employers, especially employersare all starting to accept that
AI is the competitive edge, andso, therefore, the value is no
longer about us versus AI.
The value with our employers,and with ourselves for that
matter, is the extent to whichwe can use AI.
So let me give you a kind ofmetaphor.
(16:16):
So let's just imagine that usas human beings you know we call
it the rat race, but let's justcall it the race, because rat
race doesn't sound very nice.
So it's the race.
We've all been doing the race.
All these human beings on twolegs.
So it's the race.
We've all been doing the race,all these human beings on two
legs.
We've all been doing the raceyear in, year out, and the race
organizers have now allowedhorses into the race, right, so
(16:40):
none of us have any chance towin racing against the.
Now, the good thing abouthorses is that they don't
understand, you know, raceorganizers.
They could be running in anydirection.
Where the real value is is inthe human being that jumps on
one of those horses and controlsit and can therefore the two of
(17:03):
them.
The AI gets the steering fromthe human and the human gets the
horsepower, and that's wherethat symbiotic relationship
kicks in.
And increasingly, employers,including myself and others that
I deal with day in, day out,are now starting to see, are
starting to embrace the ideathat a human without AI we're
(17:25):
not interested.
So it's actually the oppositeto what people are thinking.
People are thinking oh, if Iuse AI, you know that means I
don't have any value.
It's actually now the opposite.
If you don't have AI, you don'thave value.
Now, it doesn't mean if youonly have AI, and this is one of
the big problems that studentsare going to have.
The ones who are graduating isgraduating is okay.
(17:47):
Maybe they may be ninjas withchat, gpt, but they don't have
real world experience in orderto merge with the ai.
You see what I mean?
Yeah, um, and that's and that'sa big edge that those of us who
are in the workforce alreadythat's a huge edge that we have
is that we've got years ofexperience.
Now all we need to do is learnhow to merge it with AI, to
(18:12):
multiply our experience.
So you know, it's a mistake Forus as employers.
We will not hire anybody everagain anymore that does not know
how to work with AI.
And I've heard this again andagain from other people as well.
Once you've ridden the AI horse, you refuse to get off the
(18:34):
horse and you refuse to allowanybody on your team who's also
not riding a horse.
It makes sense.
Jay Johnson (18:40):
Well, I like the analogy and I particularly like
the way that you've framed hey,if you have a whole lot of life
experience, that's gonna makeyou a better jockey, rather than
somebody who's coming in withno experience and just saying do
this for me, right, likethere's that element of
experiential learning.
(19:00):
I'm 43 years old, I've got 43years of experience built up
that I'm going to be able tobring in to my jockeying of AI
versus somebody who's maybe notthat experienced.
So I really like that and Ithink that it's something that
you know as we see more and moreautomation I think, is where
people start to get reallyworried is like, oh my God, if
(19:22):
everything's automated, thenI'll have nothing.
No, you won't have busy work todo, but if you're creative and
you've got the experience, youcan bring other value
propositions into your work,into your organization, your
company, your role.
You can innovate.
You have time to do thosethings because you're not having
to do all of these automatedtasks.
(19:42):
So, the last existentialquestion and we'll get out of
this existential, but I thinkthese are big roadblocks for
adoption.
The last existential crisisOkay, but AI is still not
perfect, it still hallucinates,it still makes mistakes.
For me.
(20:12):
How do I know that I can trustAI to deliver on whatever
promise you know that Fahad orJay or whoever it is is talking
about.
How do we know that we cantrust it?
And I don't mean like the thatit's going to take over the
world.
Trusted, I mean like the actualtrust, the output.
Fahed Bizzari (20:25):
Sure, sure.
So I mean, I mean, listen, yourquestion is fantastic and I I
never used the word jockey.
I've given this metaphor ahundred times and I never used
the word jockey.
But you're absolutely right.
If you think about it, theshift that we all have to go
through is the shift from beingracers and runners into jockeys.
That is the big shift of AI,right, and to answer your
(20:50):
question now about being able totrust, it ties into that,
because now it's about learninghow to be a good jockey.
So I've just written an op-edfor a legal magazine because in
the last three years, there havebeen 64 cases of lawyers
(21:12):
submitting court papers withhallucinations in them.
Now I remember the first timethis happened, early 2023.
And I thought that that wouldbe the last time, because it was
all over.
The news Must have beenextremely embarrassing for a
(21:33):
lawyer to you know.
The hallucinations was that hecited court cases that never
took place and the oppositionpicked up on it, raised it with
the judge.
The judge humiliated the lawyer.
The company that he was, thelegal firm, also got embarrassed
.
So I thought I thought thatwould have been the last time we
(21:56):
hear of that type of scenarioand in actual fact, there have
been another 63 since then, and,as I was doing the research
into the topic in order to writemy piece, what I found was a
recurring point of view from thelawyers, which was well, we
(22:17):
thought that ChatGPT was justlike a glorified Google.
We never imagined.
We just thought that, like ifyou go to Google and you search
and you get a result, you feelconfident using the result, and
so people that look at chat GPTor look at AI as being a type of
Google, it's understandable whythey would want to trust it in
(22:42):
the same way, but it's not.
There's actually no databasebehind the AI.
There's no database, unless youexplicitly tell it to connect
to the Internet and ask it tosearch the web.
There is no database.
And so the challenge is thatpeople are using AI without
understanding the horse thatthey are riding.
You know what I mean, and sothat's where the challenge is.
(23:04):
It's not so much about trustingthe horse horse, it's about
being attuned with the horse,and that's about knowing where
it's weak, where it's strong,what it can do, what it cannot
do.
Um, for example, one of thethings that, um, the ai
developers have done recently.
I mean, ai has always kissedour asses, generally speaking,
(23:25):
but in recent times, they reallykiss our asses and I, I, I
thought to myself and all the asare do ais are doing it's not
just chat, gpt, all of them aredoing it like you give it a bit
of feedback and it will say wow,that's an amazing piece of
feedback, you're the best thingsince sliced bread.
Let's work on it together.
And I I realize that I thinkthe reason they're doing this is
(23:45):
to make the ai more sticky,like I would much rather hang
around with people that tell methat all of my ideas are so
amazing and I'm the best thingsince sliced bread, and so I
think that's what's going onwith the AI developers right Now
.
I have to now have thatcritical thinking to realize
(24:06):
that hold on a second.
Just because the ai told methat it's the best idea it's
heard today, that doesn'tnecessarily mean that it's the
best idea it's heard today,doesn't even mean that it was a
good idea.
It just means that the ai hasbeen programmed to kiss my ass
and I need to be aware of thiswhilst I'm working and not to
(24:28):
get lost by it.
So, similarly, we're doing someagentic AI stuff right now,
where we're doing this hugeresearch, like research across
200 websites simultaneously, andother members of my team are
accepting results that I amrejecting and from their point
of view it looks reallyplausible.
(24:49):
But they don't know the topic.
They know how to do research,et cetera.
I know the topic, they don'tknow the topic.
So they're seeing the outcomesand think, oh my God, this is
amazing.
Yeah, fahad is going to be sohappy, amazing.
They're showing it to me andI'm like look, I just looked at
(25:12):
the first result.
It's a fail.
I'm going to take over and do abit of programming to make sure
we get this right.
And that's what I did and Ishowed it to them.
They're like okay, now weunderstand.
We'll map this to all of theother searches.
So it's not about trusting theAI.
It's more about becomingattuned with the AI and how it
works and so on.
So, for example, chat GPT has afunction.
I don't use chat GPT personallybecause I use, like, all the
AIs and I've got a centralplatform that works with all of
(25:34):
them.
But ChatGPT has a functioncalled memory and most people
love the fact that it has memorybecause it seems to do a much
better job at contextualizingyou and your circumstances.
But what people don't realizeis that the AI's memory is
(25:54):
flawed, because one day youcould be talking about I don't
know your romantic life, and onanother day you could be talking
about the struggles with yourchildren, and on another day
you're talking about the bookthat you want to write and on
another day.
So it's memorizing a whole lotof things.
It might even be memorizingfictitious situations.
You might have sat down andjust like written some role play
(26:15):
or something, and now all thosethings are coming together and
influencing the conversationsyou have together.
And so, more than anything,it's about learning to
understand the horse that you'reriding, learning to understand
its strengths and its weaknesses, how it's about learning to
understand the horse that you'reriding, learning to understand
its strengths and its weaknesses, how it's working, what its
agenda is and kind of workingaround those things.
(26:37):
So if you said now to the AI Iwant you to write a 300 word
article on XYZ, I guarantee youit's not going to be 300 words.
I guarantee you it's going tobe 280, 260, 317.
It's going to be anything otherthan 300 words, because
language models do notspecialize in numbers and they
(26:59):
don't count words ahead of time.
They can only count it afterthe event.
So it will aim for 300, butit's not going to be 300.
And so I know that and otherpeople who learn to work with AI
learn that, and then it's like,okay, I don't need to trust
that it's going to be 300 words.
I've already accepted it willnot be 300 words and that now
(27:24):
becomes the dynamic of ourrelationship that I wish I could
trust it to do 300, but it iswhat it is.
I'm just going to accept it asit is and I'll do my final
editing at the end to make sureit is 300.
Jay Johnson (27:36):
Yeah, well, it's so interesting Again, so much so
many interesting things in thisin you know this, this microcosm
of AI conversation.
The first is memory, and assoon as you were talking about
this, I use ChatGPT.
I got the paid version and it'syou know, because I'm using it
(27:58):
basically to help me throughthings like blank page syndrome
or hey, help me think of X, yand Z, or what's a good way to
go about this, et cetera.
And one of the things that Idid kind of early on was I
trained it on the behavioralmodels that we use.
Now, if I say it's reallyinteresting where memory pops up
(28:18):
because there'll be somethingthat is completely unrelated to
the behavioral models that allof a sudden it pops in its
knowledge of the behavioralmodels and puts it into place,
which has actually been kind ofcool, because there's points in
times where I'm like I actuallydidn't think about doing that
and you just did it.
Thank you for doing that.
There's other times I'm likethis doesn't fit at all, let's
(28:40):
not use that.
But I have found very much,like you said, and I'm going to
go back to, something that youtalked about earlier is the
precision of language, theclarity in communication, if I
explicitly tell it.
I want you to reference thesematerials, this conversation and
X, y, z, at that point in time.
It does, and it does a reallygood job with it.
At other points in time, thesemomentary memory relapses come
(29:07):
into play at some point in timejust in an inappropriate way, so
I love that you bring that up.
The other thing that I thoughtwas super interesting is you
know that when we and I'm goingto ask you what platforms would
you recommend for somebodystarting out versus you know, as
you start to advance at somepoint in time, recommend for
(29:28):
somebody starting out versus youknow, as you start to advance
at some point in time.
I've played with Gemini.
I've played with.
I've played with, obviously,chat GBT.
I've played with Microsoft'sversion I forget the name of it
right now, it's whatever, yeah,so I played with a number of the
different things.
The thing that I have foundinteresting is absent.
(29:51):
Using a separate software, Ifound that images are a
challenge, and it related backto me to what you said is
numbers are not a large languagemodel function, neither is
images.
I know that there are somebeautiful images that are
produced, so can you talk to mea little bit more about that is
getting to know the horse thatwe're riding or attuning to the
(30:13):
horse that we're riding Numbers.
Not a thing Doesn't really makesense to you know.
Get mad at it because it putsout 280 as opposed to 300.
Images I've also learned?
Probably not a thing.
What are some other things thatwe should be thinking about in
terms of attuning ourselves?
Fahed Bizzari (30:31):
Okay.
So the question that youstarted with was for somebody
that's new, what would Irecommend?
Hands down, I would recommendChatGPT For somebody that's new.
Chatgpt is the mostconsumer-friendly general
purpose AI out there.
They were the first to themarket and they've been evolving
(30:54):
ever since the start.
And what?
What makes them particularlyunique is that open AI is goal,
and I think it's the.
The goal is the same forMicrosoft and Google, but open
AI, where the leaders, inpursuing this goal, is their
goal, is to build out our ownpersonal AI assistance.
So if you think about TonyStark having Jarvis, the idea is
(31:16):
that all of us should have ourown Jarvis, and so that's why
they built memory.
They put that memory function,because they're moving towards
the future, whereby the ai islistening and watching as we go
about our day and then is ableto like, give us insights, and
then I can say to hey, you know,yesterday I was in a mall.
(31:39):
I saw that red dress, what wasthe name of that shop again, and
the ai would go oh, that wasmango.
You know what I mean mean.
So, from a, from a, itdefinitely I would recommend
chat GPT.
Um, claude starts to shine.
Um, with regards to otherthings like um.
Um, working with CSV files isbetter than ChatGPT, doing
(32:03):
analytics better than ChatGPT.
They just released version fourof their Claude model and my
developer is using itperpetually and he keeps on
praising it.
So, when it comes todevelopment, like software
development, claude is fantastic.
Also, for writing, claude isfantastic for writing.
(32:24):
Claude is fantastic, and what Ifound in professional work, I
found gemini to be the winner.
It's really thorough, doesn'tkiss ass too much and it also I
mean there's a lot of thingsgemini is my go-to model these
days.
2.5 it's my preferred model.
I I was personally spendingover a thousand dollars a month
(32:47):
on my personal AI stuff andright now, google Gemini is
completely free.
So I'm like, oh my God, I'msaving a thousand one and a half
thousand dollars a month usingyou know, using Gemini.
Now to go back to what you saidabout images actually in.
Now, to go back to what yousaid about images actually in, I
think it must have been earlyApril.
Openai released a new imagemodel called Image Generation,
(33:12):
originally enough, and if youknow what you're doing with it,
it actually produces remarkableimages within ChatGPT.
But you have to spend some time.
Don't go and just say, give mean image of X, y, of xyz, you
actually have to go and learnhow to prompt it.
Now, I never personally spenttime learning how to prompt
images because I feel that thatis the domain for designers,
(33:36):
right?
So if I want images, I willwork with a designer and let him
use the AI to produce theimages.
You know what I mean, or whatI'll do if I want to create a
unique image.
So if you go to my consultancywebsite, you'll see that all the
design is all Renaissance art.
So what we did was we workedwith an AI-empowered designer
(34:07):
who put together the promptsneeded to create renaissance art
and then connected it with ourwebsite, cms, so that whenever
we create a new page, it looksat the page, makes an
intellectual decision of what'ssome type of symbol that we can
use to represent the content ofthis page.
Now go and produce somerenaissance art based around
that symbol.
Nice, so you know I would notget involved.
And you know if we're talkingabout video, google three days
(34:30):
ago released uh, their latestvideo model.
You must have seen stuff aboutthis all over linkedin and
elsewhere.
It is the most remarkable stuffthat you can imagine.
It is 100% Like you can't tellnow at all what is human and
what's not.
You can't tell.
But it's a learning curve and alot of people will be like,
(34:52):
yeah, I want to learn, like, howto do the images, and my advice
is stay in the area that youknow Right.
So if let's say, for example,you're a trainer and that's what
you do, you put togetherprograms and that's your strong
point, stay there, because nowAI is going to take your
(35:12):
strength and multiply it by 100times, whereas if you now start
dabbling in areas that are notyour strength, so you're going
to take your let's call it yourstrength.
I mean, let's just give it anumber, your strength is 100.
And you're going to work withthe AI.
It's going to multiply you byanother 1000.
And the equation of the two ofyou together will be 100,000.
(35:35):
Now go into an area that youdon't know.
You're no longer operating at100,.
You're operating at 10 or five,okay, and and you're working.
You're working with the AI andyou don't even know how to use
the AI that well.
Or you're trying to do imagesor videos or audio or whatever.
Now it's going to be like fivetimes five is 25.
You could have been operatingat a hundred thousand level and
(36:00):
instead, because you went intoan area that is not your
expertise, now you are dabblingat the 25 level I had.
Jay Johnson (36:06):
Where were you about six months ago, when I
spent an exorbitant amount ofhours trying to get a damn image
for my powerpoint presentation.
And I have a design team whichis even worse.
But yeah, you're spot on I.
I sat there and I played withDolly and I played with the
Shutterstock one, I played withCanva one and, while I'm, when
(36:30):
it comes to the research side ofthings, my prompts, seemingly
are pretty good.
I always room for improvementand I want to talk about that in
just a moment, but when it cameto images, it was.
It was four hours when I couldhave literally jumped onto
Shutterstock, found the imagethat I wanted in 40 seconds and
been fine with it.
But my tenacity sometimes getsthe better.
(36:54):
I'm like I'm going to make thisthing do what I want it to do.
It was not doing it.
So talk to us a little bit.
How can we be better partners?
And you know that's that's sowhen I speak on AI, the tech
side of thing is not what I'mtalking about.
I talk about how leaders needto embrace it, what they need to
(37:14):
be thinking about, how theyneed to lead in a world of AI.
Ai is definitely not my strongsuit and I start off my
presentations like if you wantAI tips, I'm not your guy.
If you want to understand thehuman side of this and how to
lead in creating clearcommunications, creating better
prompts, creating more, you know, more specificity and also, I
(37:49):
guess, alignment or attunement,as you call it, with the way
that we're interacting, so thefirst thing is, I would strongly
advise not to think of AI as atool.
Fahed Bizzari (38:00):
I mean, many people have said that over the
last two and a half years inresponse to the whole
existential crisis idea that,well, look, at the end of the
day, it's just a tool.
And the thing is it's not justthe tool.
It's a lot more than a tool,because it's this source of
intelligent energy, unlimitedintelligent energy.
(38:22):
Right, it's a bit like the firehydrants or whatever you call
them, that have this like burstof water that's coming out of it
, and the way that I've alwaysexplained it to people since day
one, because I've beenadvocating for this.
I've been teaching it now foralmost three, well, two and a
half years.
Well, we're entering June now,yeah, so more than two and a
(38:45):
half years is step number one.
You gotta think to yourselfthat, look, pre-ai as a person,
you have been speaking toyourself.
You are your companion, right?
So every challenge and everymoment that you face in life,
you are your own companion andyou're talking to yourself.
(39:07):
Should I do this?
Should I go there?
You know I'm feeling tired.
Hey, I wonder what would happen, like we have been our own
co-pilot for our entire lives.
Now, what ai brings to thetable is not just and sorry, and
ourselves as co-pilots toourselves.
(39:27):
We are limited to our educationand our experience.
So now, if we think about AI asa cognitive co-pilot, an
intellectual co-pilot, acceptthat it has the intelligence of
all humanity and it cansynergize all of that
intelligence.
(39:48):
So the best thing to do is toactually, instead of talking to
yourself, get in the habit oftalking with the AI, right?
I wonder X, y, z, do you thinkthat this would be good?
You know why?
Did you know, like I, okay,okay, this is completely,
actually, let me do itcompletely.
Okay, I'll tell you completelyoff topic.
You know, if you, if you hearabout women, they talk about
(40:10):
this thing called the ick right,that they get this thing about
the ick, about men.
Today I just had thisconversation with my ai about it
and it's like you know what,not every man needs to be
attracted to every woman.
Not every woman needs to beattracted to every woman.
Not every woman needs to beattracted to every man.
At the end of the day, we'reall looking just for that one
reliable, loving partner that wecan be committed to, right?
(40:30):
So, in actual fact, this ickconcept is actually fantastic
because it like puts people offpeople in order to help you find
your one.
So this thought when I got it,when I got that spark of thought
, I was like let me just talkabout this with my AI.
And so, instead of me talkingabout it with myself and
reaching no personal conclusion,I've talked about it now with
(40:53):
my AI and have reached aconclusion that I feel happy
with.
I'm not an academic, I don'tknow whether this is actually
true or not, but I feel happywith it.
And that's what I would havegot if I was talking to myself.
I would have felt happy with itand I'm like yeah, that makes
sense to me.
Let's move on with life right,so feel it like to be like your
cognitive co-pilot and manypeople will disagree with what
(41:17):
I'm about to say, but it willreally open up the world of AI
to you as an individual.
You have to be careful in thecorporate space with this advice
, which is learn to bevulnerable with it, and what I
mean by that is, you know,vulnerability is all about
sharing stuff that you wouldn'tnormally share.
Now, when you share that stuffwith your AI, you're able to get
(41:37):
really incredible insights youknow, like this conversation
about the ick that we just had.
So when you actually thinkabout that, that you're willing
to talk about things you knowwith your AI that you wouldn't
otherwise have been willing totalk about, you start to get
insights that you otherwisewould never have got.
Now, in the corporate space, inthe company space you have to
(41:59):
be careful with this because youcan't share everything, right.
Jay Johnson (42:02):
Confidentiality, non-disclosure, yeah, exactly.
Fahed Bizzari (42:05):
Exactly, I mean people.
People don't typicallyunderstand the ins and outs of
what you can and what you can'tshare, but for the most part,
until you do know, just play itsafe.
And so this whole vulnerabilitything.
No that you don't do that, butI forgot your question.
Now I've gone so deep in thisthing.
Jay Johnson (42:25):
I'll go back to the question.
No, but I find this superinteresting because, um, that
was actually something that sortof shifted my perspective too
is.
At one point in time I wasfrustrated with a life event and
, honestly, I got onto AI andthis was.
This was months, if not years.
At this point, I got onto AIbecause I was like huh, I can go
and bitch and complain to AI.
(42:47):
And all of a sudden it startsgiving me this like do you,
would you like some?
You know, jay, it sounds likethis.
It was kissing my ass, but thenit was like but this is a
really interesting insight, haveyou considered?
And I was just like and it'stalking to me and I'm like wait
a second, I don't do mybackgrounds in behavioral
science, I don't do therapy, Idon't do clinical therapeutics,
(43:08):
but I've studied quite a bitthere.
And then I started to getcurious and I'm like well, I'm
experiencing this, can you helpme understand?
And it starts communicatingback to me and I'm like and this
is how I'm feeling and why.
You know what?
Where does that come from?
And my gosh, like it.
If I had.
It was incredible.
I was just like the more thatI'm giving this thing, the more
(43:30):
that it is giving me back andlike encouraging or prompting or
bringing about a differentinsight.
Like how might I understandthis experience?
But you're right, when I and Iwas I'm going to say that I was
more kind of I don't want to sayfake vulnerable on this, but I
was I was essentially testing itand once that kind of really
played out the way that I wouldhave expected it to play out, I
(43:53):
go to it all the time with likehey, I'm feeling X, y and Z
about this project, or you know,this is happening here.
Help me understand what's goingon.
And I mean we have behavioralconversations.
It's like I have another.
It's like you're right, it'slike I have a high powered lab
partner that literally knowseverything that I can ask these
questions to.
And it's giving me hey, thinkabout this, or check out this
(44:15):
research or do this.
And I'm like where have youbeen on my life?
Exactly my question, my questionand I think you started to
answer it.
But my question really was howcan we be better at providing
clarity in our prompts andcommunity?
Fahed Bizzari (44:32):
Yeah.
Jay Johnson (44:32):
And, you know, being vulnerable.
Engaging it as though it's apartner and not necessarily a
tool, or like a communicationpartner or co-pilot, I think, is
obviously a really, reallypowerful step in building sort
of this building a longerconversation with our AI tool,
or AI I guess I would call itco-pilot.
Fahed Bizzari (44:56):
And another huge tip which in the early days of
AI or the early days of chat,gpt, like, a lot of people were
talking about this and then itkind of died down, but it's
actually very solid advice,which is giving your AI a
persona.
So let's say, for example, you,you're a trainer, let's just
keep it simple and you want tohave conversations about
(45:18):
training, so give your AI atrainer related persona.
It might be that, okay, youknow, we've got years of
experience in our fields, butthere are people that we look up
to in our fields.
A lot of people look up to usin our fields and there are
people that we look up to in ourfields.
(45:38):
So if I'm going to be talkingto AI about my field, let me
give it the persona of thatperson that I would look up to
yeah you know, I'll give you anexample.
In in my consultancy, we speakto ceos.
That's our primary target.
We speak to founder ceos ofcompanies, about 100 to 200
employees.
We also cater for ginormouscompanies uh, where we're
(46:00):
typically dealing with the chiefdigital officer, and much
smaller companies as well, butour sweet spot is, like you know
, 50 to 200 people and so on.
And for a very long time I wasusing AI and a copywriter an AI
copywriter that was writing forCEOs, so the persona was the
(46:21):
persona of a copywriter.
So far, happy days, amazing.
I don't need to hire acopywriter because I got my own
copywriter, yay, okay.
One day, a CEO of a very largecompany, which you would know,
told me when I showed him somecontent.
He said Fahad, you know what?
(46:43):
All of the companies, they'reall saying the same thing.
All the AI, everyone's sayingthe same thing.
And it's not speaking to me.
And I was like you know, canyou elaborate?
He's like look, I don't care,what I care about is my current
year goals.
I care about my current quartergoals.
That's what I care about.
I've got another two years inthis company.
(47:04):
This is what I care about.
My current quarter goals,that's what I care about.
I've got another two years inthis company.
This is what I care about.
Talk to me about how AI canhelp me achieve my current goals
and this year's goals.
So I walked away from thatthinking, oh my God, we really
did miss the mark on this.
So I created a persona.
His name is Andrew.
I created this persona, andrew,who is himself a CEO of a 145
(47:29):
person company and he knows AIinside out.
He has AI transformed.
He is passionate about helpingother CEOs embrace AI, and I now
have a CEO that writes mycontent, not a copywriter.
Jay Johnson (47:53):
You see what I mean Brilliant, yeah, 100%, 100%.
So the persona that I actually,because I've done the same
thing I want you to pretend youknow, and building a persona or
anything else like thatsometimes is as easy as
prompting it because you cantell it.
I want you to pretend you're acopywriter of X, Y and Z years
(48:14):
and this is what you're thinkingand doing, and so on and so
forth.
For the behavioral stuff that Idid, I asked it, stuff that I
did, I asked it.
I said I want you to be adoctorate in behavioral science,
meaning that you studiedethology, neurobiology,
neuroscience, et cetera, etcetera.
Uh, the interesting thing was Iasked my GPT to give me a name
(48:35):
that it would prefer to becalled and it did.
It gave me into the name Vex.
She's like because and I I knowit's pulling from, you know,
past conversations into memoryand it's like because we like to
be a little bit cheeky but wealso like to solve behavior, so
I'd like to be called Vax, likeperfect, You're Vax.
So.
But yeah, to that point is,when they have the persona and
(48:56):
they're thinking, thinking inthat persona it does, it comes
out very, very differently Ifyou ask a GPT to write as a
copywriter or write as abehavioral scientist.
You're getting two verydifferent sets of messages.
So I that's such a great point,but I think we could probably
talk for another six hours, andI think one of the things I'd
(49:17):
love to do is have you back,Cause I know we've we've
scratched the surface, um,covering some of the fears and
covering some of the ways tointeract with it, and by the
next week, a lot of this mighthave changed.
Who knows?
But if our audience wanted toget in touch with you to learn
more about how you're supportingAI-empowered organizations and
(49:39):
all of that, how would theyreach out to you?
Fahed Bizzari (49:42):
Absolutely the best way is through LinkedIn and
if anybody does send me aconnection request, please
mention that you heard thepodcast and so on, because I get
so many connection requests.
Unfortunately, I ignore most ofthem that don't explain why
they're connecting.
So please make sure that youadd a note to explain that you
came through the podcast so thatwe can connect.
Jay Johnson (50:02):
Such a good practice anyways.
So thank you for your time,your knowledge.
This has been a veryenlightening, eye-opening
conversation for me, and I knowthat it's going to be huge.
So, audience, if you are not onAI, you are continuing to stick
your head in the sand that isquickly dissipating, and if
(50:23):
you're afraid, give Fahad a callfor sure.
So thank you for being here,Fahed.
Fahed Bizzari (50:28):
Thank you for having me.
Jay Johnson (50:30):
And thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge,where, together, we're shaping
the future of training anddevelopment with AI.
Take care.
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