February 20, 2025 • 47 mins
What if HR could transcend its traditional role and become a true powerhouse of organizational success? Join us on this episode of the Talent Forge as we welcome Andrew Almazan, an ex-VP of people with 15 years of industry experience, who shares his journey from the challenges of COVID-19 to creating the Brave Leadership Guild. Andrew takes us through the nuanced roles of VP of people and HR, shedding light on strategies for overcoming the stigma of HR as merely an enforcement arm. With insights into the balance between risk mitigation and the human aspect of HR, Andrew advocates for a more proactive approach to the internal marketing of HR's value.
Learn more about Andrew's organization, Brave Leadership Guild: http://www.braveleadershipguild.com/
Andrew's FREE "The Executive's Playbook for Better Business Execution:" https://braveleadershipguild.com/merch-blg/executives-playbook-for-better-business-execution
Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jay Johnson (00:01):
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where we are shaping the futureof training and development
together, and today I've got aspecial guest, andrew Almazan.
Welcome to the show, andrew.
Hey, jay, thanks for having me.
I'm excited to have thisconversation.
You've got an incrediblebackground, being an ex-VP of
people and in your current role,alongside of coaching some
(00:23):
leaders.
But let's get to know you alittle bit better.
Can you tell us and theaudience a little bit about
yourself and how you got intothis space?
Andrew Almazan (00:31):
Absolutely.
And just first I wanted to saythank you, appreciate you and
your audience for taking thetime to spend some time with me.
I've essentially got 15 yearsof experience to date in
American business.
Like you talked about, I was anex-VP of people for a top five
media company in the automotivespace and I really cut my teeth
(00:54):
as a professional in thatcompany working my way up to
eventually become that VP.
Long story short.
On that side of things know the,the economics, the economic
scenario you know around covidfinally caught up to the
industry and we had to face some, some challenges.
Maybe we can get into some ofthose things, uh, later in the
(01:15):
convo.
But um, ultimately I was facedwith this decision to pivot um
and and adapt to kind of theenvironment.
That inspired the two thingsthe development of my executive
coaching practice, braveLeadership Guild but at the same
time it was also a opportunityto reintegrate back into the
(01:39):
craft brewing and hospitalityspace, which is where I was as a
younger professional way beforekind of getting into the
corporate world.
So it's kind of this fullcircle thing At the same time.
Just, it's just been this sortof strategic dance in terms of
adapting with the times at thesame time not utilizing that as
(02:00):
an excuse to not thrive, right?
So that's where I'm at today,acting as the assistant general
manager for one of SouthernCalifornia's oldest craft
breweries and, at the same time,dedicating a little bit of
energy to helping otherprofessionals meet and achieve
their professional goals.
Jay Johnson (02:21):
Love that, anders, and I love the full circle
nature of it.
You know, I definitely want toget into some of your approach
when it comes to coaching, and Ilove the name Brave Leadership
Guild.
Before we go there, though, Iwant to dig into this, this role
as vice president of people,and I think this is important
because a lot of our audience,you know, in the talent
(02:44):
development space, they may bereporting to either their HR
function or their CHRO or, ifthere is a position of that, the
vice president of people.
So let's get into the mindset.
What were you thinking and whatwas sort of like your major
concerns when you were in thatrole of VP of people?
Andrew Almazan (03:05):
Yeah, absolutely , as that vice president of
people.
I took a lot of pride in thatrole.
I think it combines the verybest of what you might expect or
what you might think about whenyou think of traditional
leadership in the humanresources space, you know, um,
an acute attention to detail,with policies, regulations
(03:25):
across the country, uh, and eveninternationally if you're
working for an an internationallevel organization, uh.
But at the same time, I reallywas a big advocate for creating
a space where the VP of peoplerole could thrive at that media
company, side by side to a VP ofhuman resources who we had at
(03:49):
that time as that added layer oforganizational design and
people strategy.
I think that that's thatadditional layer You're thinking
in terms of looking at theentire organization in all its
moving functions and ensuringthat all the pieces are in
(04:13):
alignment and kind of workingtowards that overall
organizational mission and thevalues that it has.
Jay Johnson (04:24):
You know I like that division because I think in
a lot of cases and I find itinteresting the more
conversations I have with HR andHR representatives they feel
like they're kind of put in thisdouble bind of having to serve
the master, the organization,but also having to serve the
people.
So how did that relationship gowhen you have sort of a
(04:48):
designated people strategistworking in conjunction with HR?
Did people respond morepositively to the HR function?
Did they respond morepositively to the people?
Was there divisions?
How did that look in thatorganization?
Andrew Almazan (05:06):
visions.
How did that look in thatorganization?
Yeah, you know, I think thefirst step was really getting
people to understand the valueof both functions.
You know, just candidlyspeaking, I feel like and in my
experience in the HR realm for atime, I feel like the human
resources space andprofessionals on that team tend
to get a bad rap.
I think that there's a stigmathat people within an
(05:28):
organization tend to feel abouthuman resources.
They tend to feel like they arethe internal police, that
that's the primary function.
At the worst case they'reserving, maybe, the interests
and the functions of the seniorleadership team, the executive
team and risk mitigation right,and at the worst, maybe not
(05:51):
really having a pulse on theneeds, the concerns or the
initiatives that do matter mostto the people.
But I think that thatperspective lives in internal
organizational culture when youdon't do a good enough job
internally marketing the valueof the function of human
(06:13):
resources.
And I also think that as ahuman resources professional, we
have the opportunity every dayto either break past and
overcome that stigma orreinforce it.
So I tend to be yeah, I wasgoing to say I think that's
(06:34):
smart.
I'm sorry, go ahead, jay.
Jay Johnson (06:36):
No, that's totally smart and I really think about
what you just said of each day.
Our behavior is going todetermine whether we're
perceived as the executioner orthe actual.
You know the role and thefunction of.
Yeah, of course we've got tomitigate risk, or of course
we've got to be able to enforcesome of the policies, but at the
(06:56):
same time, it still is aboutthe human aspect of human
resources.
So I love that you brought thatup human aspect of human
resources.
So I love that you brought thatup.
I think that you're absolutelyright.
That bad rap comes in many casesbecause HR has been used as the
execution or function and notnecessarily deployed at the
(07:18):
highest level.
But we, as you know, in thattalent space, in that human
space, can re sort ofreestablish what our brand is as
an HR function.
How might we?
With your background in media,I have to ask the question how
do we go about marketing that?
How do we go about creating theconditions to sort of reinvent
(07:38):
ourselves?
Because I think that's a reallyimportant question both for HR
and for talent development.
Andrew Almazan (07:45):
Yeah, I love to start.
That's a great question, jay.
I appreciate that.
I like to start with thinkingabout what are the perceptions
that we need to tackle, that weneed to face, what are the tough
truths about what our peopleare saying about us at the water
cooler?
And I think that if we, asprofessionals at the highest
(08:07):
rungs of self development, witha mind for and an eye for
improvement, constant growth, ifwe can be open to that feedback
and not be defensive to it andsay, okay, perfect, here's the
opportunity We've been providedwith the blueprint.
Someone said it Someone smarterthan me said it that accusations
(08:28):
are just confessions ofpeople's interests.
And I've definitely built aphilosophy of conflict
resolution around that singularstatement.
I think it was an old professorfrom on the I didn't take law,
but she was in a professor fromthe law side of Pepperdine
University and I think she wasjust having a conversation and
(08:51):
that really stuck with me.
But I'll say it one more timethat some someone's accusations
are just confessions of theirinterests.
So, plainly speaking, ifsomeone says to their boss you
know you tend to just kind ofmow me over in meetings and kind
of shoot down my ideas, we can,as leaders get defensive about
(09:13):
that.
Or we can say you know whatJane Doe or John Doe right there
just gave me an opportunity tounderstand what their biggest
and deepest interest to workmore effectively, more
effectively with me is.
And that's an opportunity to beunderstood, to maybe recognize
the value of the ideas that theybring to the table.
And so, just, I'm a big jujitsupractitioner, so the idea of
(09:38):
flipping energy is huge to meand you know we can look at
these negatives in positivelight.
So long answers, short.
Shorter answer to your questionis taking stock of what people
are saying at the water coolerand then dissecting that.
What is that, what?
(09:58):
How can we meet people withthose criticisms and create a
dialogue that helps show themthat one we understand?
We think we understand whatyou're getting at there.
Let's check for alignment andthen, if we are aligned, let's
come up with a plan to earn yourtrust, to establish some
(10:20):
confidence in what we do.
Jay Johnson (10:22):
Some absolute gold in that statement, andrew, and I
love the flipping analogy.
I also practiced jujitsu a long, long time ago.
I haven't done it so muchrecently.
But you know, and even thephilosophy of jujitsu is you
don't have to be the biggest tohave a lot of power and control
if you can actually controlyourself.
(10:42):
And I think you know somethingthat you said that that really
resonated with me on.
That is the part about taking astep back when you experience
that criticism or you hear thatfeedback.
Um, you know, it's somethingthat, uh, jocko Willink talks a
lot about.
Time is detaching from it,taking a step back and saying,
(11:04):
okay, well, why is thisperception exist?
Or what is it about thisstatement that could be true, or
should I really evaluate aboutmyself?
But it's that defensive naturethat often gets in the way.
So now you coach executives.
How do you get them to backaway from that sort of defensive
nature?
Because this could be true,whether you know, somebody says,
(11:24):
hey, I really didn't like yourtraining that you just gave, or
hey, I didn't appreciate thelearning opportunity that you
had there.
We could take that personallybecause we divest our identity
into it.
Or we could actually take astep back, get away from that
sort of taking it personally andsay, okay, well, how can I use
this to create it?
So, in coaching executives oranybody else.
(11:45):
What's a good strategy for us?
Being able to take thatmomentary pause and say what can
I learn from this or how can Icreate an opportunity from this?
Andrew Almazan (11:56):
Yeah, that's great and I think you hit the
nail on the head there, jay,because that really is the first
step to any meaningful workbeing done.
I think at the executive level,even at the beginning stages,
if you can do that as an entrylevel professional, the sky is
definitely the limit, becauseoftentimes, like you just said,
(12:19):
I think it's not externalobstacles that get in the way of
projects being completed orvisions for initiatives that
never got off the ground.
It wasn't these external issues.
I think it was someone gettingin the way of themselves and
(12:40):
another jujitsu turn.
Just tapping out a little tooearly, tapping strategically is
definitely smart for longevity,but in the case of what we're
talking about, I think if we candetach from that emotional
response that we get when maybeyour boss rejects your idea or
(13:03):
maybe they're not as emotionallyintelligent in their response,
what I like to tell executivesis you're not in control of how
that individual critiqued.
Maybe if they, you know, wecould sit here and wish that you
had a supervisor that had ahigher level of EQ in that
moment.
But we're not here to talk aboutwhat we wish was different.
(13:27):
Let's focus on what's withinyour control to still push
forward an outcome that you wishto seek and really, once we can
kind of get the ego calmed downbecause I do think the ego is
important still there's animportant part that it plays in
terms of passionately pursuingand having that sheer
(13:51):
self-belief, especially whenyou're pushing something that it
only feels like you're the onlyone who believes it.
You have to have a healthylevel of ego to get that thing
to the finish line, but you haveto quiet it enough to not be so
uber sensitive to all theexternal factors that are vying
for your response.
(14:12):
So if we can kind of get thatan individual to that place,
then I think the secret not thesecret, but the area of where I
focus on really gettingmeaningful work done with
executives is now let's unpackwhat's within your control,
(14:32):
let's focus on those levers andthen outside of that, you know
what do the people that arerelying on you stand to gain if
you absolutely crush it andbring this thing to life?
Jay Johnson (14:48):
I love that.
So it's super fitting with evensomething that we teach, which
is the behavioral intelligencemodel, which is explain and
predict behaviors as two pillarsor two components.
And then the last twocomponents are influence and
control, and part of that is wecan influence somebody else's
behavior.
We can't control them and thenwe can control our own behavior,
(15:12):
which can then lead toinfluencing others.
So being able to understandthat difference of, hey, I can't
control how they feel, whattheir perception is, how they
communicate, what they talkabout, but I can control myself
and my reaction to it and what Itake from it.
So your comment on the ego, Ithink, is super smart, because
(15:32):
when I am a big proponent of ego, I just think that people
misrepresent or misunderstandwhat the ego does.
I think when they think ego,they think of all the
egotistical baggage that comesalong with it.
But I think somebody thatactually has a really strong and
healthy ego is the personthat's able to say huh, I hadn't
considered that about myself.
(15:52):
Let me think about that, becausethey're comfortable in who they
are.
Their ego is is solid, asopposed to it being the fragile
ego that turns around and says Iknow you are, but what am I?
You know, right, right.
So I think having a healthy egois really actually having the
sturdy foundation to be able toturn your perception inwards and
(16:12):
say, yeah, okay, I can see alittle bit of that, here's how I
might be able to adapt, orhere's how I might be able to
shift or change or or take adifferent mindset.
And I want to get into thatbecause I'd love to learn a
little bit more about yourphilosophy and approach when it
comes to these executives thatyou're coaching, and what we
(16:33):
might be able to infer from thatis from the coaches or trainers
that are listening, thinkingabout you know, how does, how
does my philosophy play versusyou know different potential
perspective philosophy, so goahead if you would share a
little bit about that for us.
Andrew Almazan (16:49):
Absolutely, jay.
So for me, I'm a big.
I'm a big proponent of balance,especially in the business
world.
And when I'm, the balance thatI'm referring to is both your
creativity and innovative sideof your thinking.
But then also, if we're talkingabout business, you know
(17:10):
numbers matter, tangibleoutcomes matter, and you know
you can be as creative andinnovative as of a professional.
But if you have a challenge, ifeither that means it's just
something that you are averse toquantifying things, if you are
(17:30):
just averse to being able topour into the metrics and look
for patterns, you're going tohave a very tough time
advocating either for yourself,for your team, whether that
comes down to things like moreresources, more fiscal support,
(17:50):
so being able to be a creative,but then also understand that
the language of business reallydoes come down to the tangible
metrics that kind of move oureconomy.
I like to coach executives andemerging leaders in in the
discipline of understanding thatyou can't have, you can't
(18:10):
succeed without being uh, at thevery least having a healthy
respect for both Um so projectmanagement, uh, you know, have,
have beautiful and disruptiveideas, but be disciplined in
terms of being able tocommunicate to yourself, to your
(18:31):
team and your supervisors aboveyou how you're going to produce
tangible outcomes for thebusiness for your department.
So that might be a kind of likea way that I do that.
Jay Johnson (18:46):
I love that and you said one of my favorite words
in the world balance, which wetalk about a lot actually on
this podcast.
You know balancing out thosedrives the drive to acquire
versus the drive to bond withpeople, the drive to innovate
and learn or the drive to defend, and you know, tamp down on
risk.
So I love that you bring thatup.
Now, one of the things thatI've experienced, both in my
(19:10):
professional life but also inworking with some different
executives, is oftentimesthey're coming into a space with
very little balance and usuallythat's part of the reason why
they're getting an executivecoach or part of the reason why
you know they're engaging.
What is it that you know?
When we are coaching executives, how do we help them see that
(19:34):
imbalance that they're having?
How do you coach them throughthat to become aware of it or to
surface some of those internals?
Because we can say, hey, andrew, you're imbalanced right now
and what's going to happen, morethan likely, is the defense
mechanisms, the rejection, thewalls that are coming up.
So it is a process of gettingothers to kind of surface it for
(19:55):
themselves.
How do you do that?
How do you go about that?
Andrew Almazan (19:58):
Yeah, and I think you know I'm not speaking
for all coaches and trainers andHR professionals who do this
full time for their teams withintheir company but my style I
love a good conversation and Ido appreciate the value of what
it means to be empathetic and Ithink that's really the first
(20:19):
step is to, I think, in throughgenuine dialogue that resonates
with whoever that individual isthat you're sitting across the
room from.
You have to be able to increasetheir empathy meter for the
thing that we're talking about,for the conflict or the
(20:40):
opportunity of development thatwe're talking about.
And if you can raise that, Icall it that empathy meter for
them.
Apply that behavior that we'retalking about.
Maybe we'll use the examplefrom previous moments ago Maybe
they're an executive that tendsto mow over other people's ideas
(21:01):
.
They squash the ideas.
We need to discover why that isright, without raising their
defenses.
Through that conversation and Ithink, reinforcing that what we
are doing is we're excavatingand we know we might go into
places where it feels likeyou're being attacked and just
(21:22):
letting that individual know.
No, this might be a littlescary, this might be a little
frustrating through thesemoments where I'm probing here,
but understand what we stand togain what your team stands to
gain, if we can look at what'shappening what people are saying
about you is happening andreverse engineer a plan, maybe a
(21:44):
different approach to yourday-to-day that allows you to
get better outcomes from yourpeople.
Jay Johnson (21:52):
I love that.
So it is, yes, the empathymeter.
I like that concept and let'splay with this concept here for
a second too, because I thinkabout this and I go all right,
you've got an executive and thisis.
The question is going to bemore broad in general, but, like
, let's take it from thisperspective of the executive,
(22:13):
they have gotten to a high levelposition.
They've obviously the behaviorsthat they have exhibited over
the course of their career haveon some level served them well.
So, whether that was the notlistening or rejecting or
whatever, they've made it tothis executive level, which then
you know, when we're rewardedfor our behaviors, well, we
(22:33):
reinforce those behaviors and dothose behaviors again.
So my question and the generalquestion is is because I know
the trainers and the coaches inthe audience have experienced
this this what happens when youget that executive that's
resistant to change and thatjust doesn't want to push
forward with something ordoesn't see the value of it,
(22:54):
Like, well, I am who I am andit's gotten me this far.
You know that sort of mentalitythat's like the antithesis to
growth and development.
What do you do to sort ofencourage, empower or influence
that sort of shift in thinking?
Andrew Almazan (23:10):
Yeah, I have a very simple prompt that I've
honed through a fewconversations with that and it's
as simple as asking them in thesame stroke when we ask what do
your people, what is yourcompany, what does this
organization stand to gain Ifyou absolutely succeed in this
(23:32):
thing that we're working on,getting them to really focus and
and get that out on paper inthe same conversation, asking
them what does this organization, what is your team, what do you
as a professional stand to loseif you don't, if you fail?
Jay Johnson (23:53):
I love that the inverse pro and con list, with
the pros of doing it and whatare the cons that are going to
exist if you don't do it.
I really love that approach sobrilliant.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhat success looks like.
How do you measure success?
How do you you know you finish,you finish a coaching program,
(24:15):
or even even when you wereworking within your teams, what
was it that you define success?
You know, part of the reason westarted this podcast was
because we know that, from likedata out there in the industry,
nine out of 10 trainings fail tolead to any kind of
organizational impact or results.
We know that less than 23% ofthe people that attend a
(24:35):
training or go through some kindof coaching program actually
shift to behavior.
So, from your perspective, whatdoes success look like?
An organization invests in acoach, or even the leader
invests in a coach.
How do you define what that ROIor what that success is for
them?
Andrew Almazan (24:56):
Yeah, that's a great question and that really
comes down to the crux of it all.
Right, in terms of what we doas professional coaches,
trainers and executives forcompanies.
Coaches, trainers andexecutives for companies we, we
and I said this just last weekwe live and die professionally
by how well we articulate andexecute on the ROI that we
(25:20):
create for our people.
And so, to answer your question, jay, I think I like to live
life a little bit on the edgewith my coaching.
There's no template KPI forclients.
Through a discovery call, wemutually develop or extract what
(25:42):
the deepest, most high-impactgoal looks and feels like for
that executive or for thatexecutive's team.
If it's a team coaching, welist it out, we boil it down to
like three things, um, and wecheck for alignment on that.
And so the KPIs, client byclient, are always different.
(26:02):
Some might be a little morequalitative.
Uh, you know it might be.
Hey, at the end of ourengagement, I'd love for you to
facilitate a 360 peer review forwhere we have a sample size of
subordinate level, peer leveland supervisory level people.
I want to be able to crush atleast an 80% score eight out of
(26:26):
10 across the board, perfect.
For someone else it might be.
Hey, I'm a sales rep, anational sales rep.
I just have trouble stayingorganized.
A KPI for them that we'veworked on in the past is hey,
I'd like to see an increase net,you know, like two 3% in sales
over 90 days of us workingtogether specifically through
(26:47):
you helping me dial in myorganizational approach.
So I chance it client to client, because everybody's different
and every professional'sopportunities are different,
right?
So I would think I would bedoing someone a disservice and I
would actually encourage othertrainers and other leaders who
(27:10):
are listening to this to takethat chance to and treat
everybody as an individual.
You might have, like yourtemplate offerings, but really
the most valuable thing we cando as coaches is serve as that
coach, right, that sees thingsfrom a different vantage point
and sees everyone for theirunique selves with their unique
(27:31):
opportunities.
And it might be a little morework, uh, to to step outside of
that and tailor, tailorsomething, uh, some success
metrics to that professional,but that's how you create a, you
know, long-term value.
Jay Johnson (27:47):
Couldn't agree more , and I think it applies not
only just to coaching but alsoto training too, like developing
some kind of custom, specific,clear objectives for the
training or the offerings thatyou're going to be giving and
making sure that those arealigned with the business
objectives and being able to askthe right questions to get to
(28:08):
there.
So you know, as you mentioned,going through that process of
discovery and asking thequestions to really get to the
KPIs and we talk about KPIs onhere, but if you're just joining
and you're not familiar, it'skey performance indicators,
which is one of the measurementsthat generally we would look at
to make sure that, hey, we youknow we only had people laughing
10 times a day and we want themlaughing 20 times a day.
(28:30):
That could be a KPI that you'retraining for or developing for
or coaching for.
I used just a simple one thereas an example, but I think it's
really important when we look atit and say how is this person
showing up?
Because even if I'm doing asales training and I have my
organizational objectives well,how each of those people are
(28:52):
performing.
Some of them may be making athousand calls and just not
getting a close.
Some of them may be making ahundred calls and only getting
two meetings or whatever else.
How they approach that andgiving them some space to
develop what is it that I needto do to be successful can be a
really powerful approach.
But you're right, it does takemore energy and more effort and
(29:12):
more work.
So, as we kind of get to thatspace, do you have any tactics,
tips, strategies that you wouldencourage the audience to
consider when it's, you know,putting in that extra amount of
effort?
And is there anything that youdo to really kind of synthesize
that or make it more efficient?
Or, from your experience, evenbeing as a VP of people, what
(29:35):
were some of the things that youwould tactically do in order to
create the conditions for kindof that individualized learning?
Andrew Almazan (29:43):
Yeah, absolutely .
And if I could, I think thebest way for me to share those
strategies is to kind of work myway back from some anecdotal
evidence.
I have it noted here, but it'sa recent and real world outcome
that we've been able to enjoyhere, with me working alongside
(30:04):
a general manager for the last10 to 12 months.
So I'll start with the outcomesand then kind of maybe we can
talk about how we got there.
But as of January, we looked athis KPIs, and his biggest KPIs
have to do with the revenue thatthe building generates for the
(30:25):
business.
January, year over year, he wasable to, alongside his team,
see a 13% year over yearincrease in sales.
And this is in a decliningmarket, a declining and
saturated market, where in thehospitality and craft brewing
space, three to 5% year overyear increases would be
considered a strong increase.
Jay Johnson (30:48):
And especially now, because it seems like it seems
like there's a big move towardslike mocktails and partake, you
know, non-alcoholics or any ofthose types of things.
That seems like you know fromthe upcoming generations that
drinking is on the decline.
You also have market factorsthat are on the decline, so that
13% year over year is prettyincredible.
(31:09):
I just I want to point that out.
Andrew Almazan (31:11):
Yeah, and you know that's the hats off to him.
And I'll start with thisgeneral manager first.
I think, as leaders, receivingcoaching, receiving guidance,
having the mindset to balanceagain, mindset to balance again
(31:33):
both the burden and theresponsibility, the ownership of
understanding that you run theship, the ship sails or it sinks
with you, that ownershipbalanced with the healthy ego
that we were talking about earlyJay, to say, though I have that
level of responsibility, thoughI command that level of
responsibility, though I commandthat level of authority and
decision-making power, I amstill not above learning,
(31:55):
absorbing new information andbeing a student, probably more
often than I'm actually showingup as a leader, and probably I'd
say that's the biggest thingthat a leader can do is
demonstrate to their people thatthere's value in being a
student, even at the highestrungs.
It's empowering, I think.
Jay Johnson (32:15):
Trainers and coaches.
Take that, because, as atrainer and coach, one of the
most important things is that wenever stop learning ourselves
and valuing that process oflearning.
So I agree with that, andrewKeep going.
Andrew Almazan (32:27):
Absolutely and valuing that process of learning
.
So I agree with that, andrew,keep going Absolutely.
So you know.
Long story short though youknow 13% year over year increase
when we look at January toJanuary Q4, 6% growth year over
year.
And then, in terms of his Q4sales, he beat the goal by 2%.
So three major metrics, I meanyou know.
Next we're gonna work on how dowe continue to build a record of
(32:50):
achievement for this generalmanager so that they can
continue to ramp up, grow, keepvying for resources and keep
innovating new opportunities togenerate revenue.
But at the same time, bygenerating revenue, there's a
lot more to gain.
The community gains because nowyou have this beautiful place
(33:10):
that patrons feel that like theycan call a home away from home.
New networking opportunitiesare happening, so like everyone
stands to gain within theecosystem.
But enough on that side.
How did we get there right?
So it really started with thestrength-based approach.
(33:31):
I'm a big believer in it.
Um, you know, uh, focusing onsomeone's strengths and doubling
down on those.
Not to say that we shouldn'tpay attention to people's gaps,
but I think that there's, um,there's a book out there.
I forget the name of the book,but it talks about.
Uh, you know the movie Rudy andum, the great movie, a great
(33:57):
classic.
But it flipped the, the conceptof kind of you know, taking
somebody who maybe wasn't asproficient and pouring all that
time into energy to get the onetouchdown.
It challenges that perceptionby saying what if we focused on
what Rudy was strong at, maybeRudy was like a highly
(34:18):
analytical strategist, maybe hemight've been a better, you know
, sideline advisor to the coach,right and still contributing to
the team's wins or theirperformance.
Jay Johnson (34:30):
Yeah, you know Gallup and their Strength
Finders assessment is actuallyone of the assessments that I've
really used and their wholeapproach is if you're spending
most of your time in your topfive strengths, you're probably
going to be happier, moreproductive and feel more valued
for the work that you're doingthan if you're spending the rest
(34:52):
of your time on the other 28 orhowever many strengths there
are that are below that in thestrengths DNA.
So there's some pretty goodevidence that's been done by
Gallup on how important it is toreally sort of stay I don't
want to say stay in your lane,because we can always develop,
we can always learn new thingsbut really kind of tapping into
that and saying, hey, let'sspend 80% of our time dedicated
(35:15):
in this strength world and youknow if you're going to do other
things, really only make that20% of your time or whatever the
you know, whatever the,whatever the percentages might
lie on that.
So, yeah, how do you helppeople find?
And really kind of because nowI'm going to say this and this
is coming I used to be a hockeyplayer, I used to be an MMA
person, I used to be a number ofthings and there was a lot of
(35:38):
people who thought that they hadreally good strengths and they
were probably their biggest gapsand weaknesses.
And then there was other peoplethat were thinking to themselves
that they had these gaps andweaknesses and it's just like,
really you think that that's agap, like that's one of your
biggest strengths.
How do you help them sort ofnavigate that space of either,
you know, that sort of biasperception of strength or the
(36:02):
we'll call it the imposterperception of strength?
Andrew Almazan (36:05):
Yeah, there's a couple of ways I think that you
could do that.
You know, as a coach, dependingon what your level of you know,
uh, empathy is right, I think.
I.
I really do think that that isone of those X factor traits
that helps, uh, a coach, atrainer, an executive kind of,
read that gap qualitatively.
Hey, is this person as we'rehaving this conversation, you
(36:27):
can sense if that person'sself-perception is in alignment
with what others might perceive,that external perception.
And I think if you're a coach,trainer, executive,
qualitatively you could startthere.
Oh man, this person's actuallypretty centered, they're good,
they're locked in with theirself-perception and external
(36:50):
perception.
You can then act as a coach toguide that person, have them
objectify some of those areas.
But let's say, maybe you wantto fact check, you want to fact
check what you're reading.
You could facilitate a 360 sortof peer review.
You can gather data, you cangather feedback from people that
(37:13):
either that person trusts aswell within their organization
and on their team.
You can hold kind of privateone-on-one sessions and build a
picture.
I think that that's what.
When I say coach, coach, movingforward through the rest of this
conversation, you know I'mtalking about anybody who has
taken on the mantle of coachingsomebody, taking on that.
(37:33):
You know that honored time,time and energy that it takes to
help someone develop.
Um, you can build that pictureby interviewing others, getting
a scope of the perception, andthen from there you can kind of
start to diagnose what are theseconsistent patterns that we're
(37:53):
seeing?
You're mowing over inconversation?
Or you're highly analytical,but people tend to say that you
work in a silo.
They're not really sure thetrust and collaboration isn't
really felt.
Analytical, but people tend tosay that you work in a silo.
They're not really sure youknow the trust and collaboration
isn't really felt, but peopledefinitely rate you high in your
(38:15):
intelligence and your abilityto you know, analyze and come to
smart fiscal decisions for thisbusiness.
These sorts of you knowone-liner statements.
We can then present that andthen create a roadmap for
development.
Jay Johnson (38:27):
That's smart.
The 360 approach is superpowerful and even you know, even
getting executives sometimes toask for authentic feedback and
creating the space for somebodyto feel safe in giving them
feedback.
I know that that's somethingthat, as the CEO of my company,
(38:47):
it is one of those things whereI have pounded into my team.
Look, I am a human.
I make mistakes, there arethings that I don't see and that
are gaps, and I am a student oflearning.
You have to help me and you canhelp me by giving me good
feedback and telling me how Icould be the better leader for
you.
So I love that 360 approach andgetting that outside perspective
(39:08):
, and even you know whether it'squalitative or quantitative.
You know those perceptionscreate reality.
So I might think that I'm theabsolute most inspiring person
and you know, if the perceptionof my team is now you're not all
that inspiring, well, I need totake a step back, like we
talked about earlier, and say,well, why, what is it that I'm
(39:28):
not doing or how could I show upin a different way?
That's going to create theperception that I'm feeling
inside.
Andrew Almazan (39:34):
Yeah, I want to add something real quick.
Jay, you just inspired athought too, when you said to
your team like you know, um, youknow, to hold me accountable
essentially right In so manywords.
That reminds me I helpedfacilitate a three, 64, um, uh,
a VP at the media company andone of the things that netted
(39:58):
the best feedback and this is atip for anybody who's planning
or or sees the value in doing itfor somebody on their team is
doing a good job with theinternal marketing.
I always come back to that.
That's.
Another best practice to getsome tangible KPIs is you have
(40:19):
to bring your people along forthe journey.
It's not when you're coachingan executive, because of the
amount of things and the amountof silos that an executive's
impact can influence.
You have to bring on the entireorganization, or, at the very
least, key departments, alongfor the journey, so
(40:41):
communicating to your people.
What we did with the VP was welet them know.
Hey, full canter guys, fulldisclosure.
This VP has chosen to lean intouncovering the benefits of going
through a self-developmentprocess.
Part of that process is a 360review and we're going to have
(41:03):
key milestones as part of theirdevelopment, because they're so
committed to increasing thesuccess of this organization and
we also value your guys'feedback through this process.
At the beginning we want totake a baseline, in the middle
we want to give this executivean opportunity to course correct
and at the end we want to letthem know how they're faring and
(41:26):
what they can do outside andpass this engagement.
We would love to secure some ofyour time through these miles,
these, these points in the road.
Would that be okay?
You know, that's that's kind ofhow we got that best view and
that was a great 360facilitation when we took the
time to slow down and saythere's more communication
(41:50):
involved in making sure thatthis process is not just, you
know, accomplished, but weabsolutely knock it out of the
park too is.
Jay Johnson (42:00):
You know, if we improve the internal
communication of everything,like our trainings, what's the
purpose, what's the intent, howthey can help, how they can
support, why it achieves abusiness objective, why it
impacts the individual that'sgoing there?
You know that internalcommunication is oftentimes it's
just assumed right, like it'sassumed like oh, I got a 360.
(42:24):
It's just assumed right, likeit's assumed like oh, I got a
360.
And we assume that everybody onthe team already knows well,
it's a 360.
It must be because the VP istrying to develop or trying to
do something great or trying tobe better.
But even though it's assumed,it's actually not, it's not
there and that internalcommunication can really align
and then also show people thatinternal communication can
really align and then also showpeople, hey, you know what this
(42:46):
360 feedback or whatever, thissurvey feedback, this interview,
it actually matters andsomebody is going to be looking
at it.
Because I mean, how many timesdo we take surveys or whatever
else, and be like is anybodyactually reading this shit?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely.
That internal communication.
It's a great, a great, greattip.
Andrew Almazan (43:06):
I really like that one yeah and jay, I just I
I can't stress it enough, youknow like.
I know we live we well, I'vebeen parts of conversations
where, you know, people haveplayed devil's advocate.
Other people in the seniorleadership team have said and I
get it I um the sensitivity totime and energy and where we
(43:27):
place it, especially when we'refocusing on an initiative, sat
in a room with business partnersand the devil's advocate might
be saying is that the best useof our time?
If we've got X amount of timeto spin up this initiative and
crush it, we're already allbought in, but is that where it
needs to go?
You know, um being we live inan in a world where people do
(43:50):
need to be reminded of the valueand the impact that their
contribution is going to havedirectly on an initiative.
Because the digital age, we're,we're we're fed so much
information and we're we're fedso many call to actions.
It really comes down to that.
Right Like, we need to remindsomeone that, look, this is not
(44:12):
just another 10 pings in yourspam email box.
Right Like this is if you candedicate at least five focused
minutes, you are having anintegral impact to this
professional's development andif they develop, this entire
company stands to gain.
Jay Johnson (44:31):
Yep, brilliant, andrew.
There's so much good out ofthis conversation that, if
you're a trainer, if you're acoach, an HR person that's
listening I hope you're able totake some of these concepts and
really think about how you canput them into practice.
But, andrew, how would they getin touch with you if they
wanted to connect?
Andrew Almazan (44:50):
reach out and find my information at
wwwbraveleadershipguildcom.
You can find me, andrew Almazan, at LinkedIn.
(45:14):
And then I also have anInstagram where I share kind of
just free value.
I do carousel posts where,using some real world
experiences, I just like want toput it out into the feed.
So brave leadership guild onInstagram.
Jay Johnson (45:24):
It's incredible, Andrew.
I want to put it out into thefeed so brave leadership guild
on Instagram.
It's incredible.
Andrew, I want to say thank youfor being here with us today,
for sharing your insights, bothas the VP of people as well as
your current role, and you knowyour approach to coaching.
I really love the philosophy.
I think that there's so manygreat things that we can
incorporate from thisconversation, so thank you for
taking the time to be here withus today.
Andrew Almazan (45:44):
Jay, thank you.
It's an honor to meet you, man,and good luck to you and your
initiatives down the road andeveryone else that listens as
well.
Good luck to all you guys onyour journey.
Jay Johnson (45:53):
Yes, and thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge,where we are shaping the future
of training and development.
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where we are shaping the futureof training and development
together, and today I've got aspecial guest, andrew Almazan.
Welcome to the show, andrew.
Hey, jay, thanks for having me.
I'm excited to have thisconversation.
You've got an incrediblebackground, being an ex-VP of
people and in your current role,alongside of coaching some
(00:23):
leaders.
But let's get to know you alittle bit better.
Can you tell us and theaudience a little bit about
yourself and how you got intothis space?
Andrew Almazan (00:31):
Absolutely.
And just first I wanted to saythank you, appreciate you and
your audience for taking thetime to spend some time with me.
I've essentially got 15 yearsof experience to date in
American business.
Like you talked about, I was anex-VP of people for a top five
media company in the automotivespace and I really cut my teeth
(00:54):
as a professional in thatcompany working my way up to
eventually become that VP.
Long story short.
On that side of things know the,the economics, the economic
scenario you know around covidfinally caught up to the
industry and we had to face some, some challenges.
Maybe we can get into some ofthose things, uh, later in the
(01:15):
convo.
But um, ultimately I was facedwith this decision to pivot um
and and adapt to kind of theenvironment.
That inspired the two thingsthe development of my executive
coaching practice, braveLeadership Guild but at the same
time it was also a opportunityto reintegrate back into the
(01:39):
craft brewing and hospitalityspace, which is where I was as a
younger professional way beforekind of getting into the
corporate world.
So it's kind of this fullcircle thing At the same time.
Just, it's just been this sortof strategic dance in terms of
adapting with the times at thesame time not utilizing that as
(02:00):
an excuse to not thrive, right?
So that's where I'm at today,acting as the assistant general
manager for one of SouthernCalifornia's oldest craft
breweries and, at the same time,dedicating a little bit of
energy to helping otherprofessionals meet and achieve
their professional goals.
Jay Johnson (02:21):
Love that, anders, and I love the full circle
nature of it.
You know, I definitely want toget into some of your approach
when it comes to coaching, and Ilove the name Brave Leadership
Guild.
Before we go there, though, Iwant to dig into this, this role
as vice president of people,and I think this is important
because a lot of our audience,you know, in the talent
(02:44):
development space, they may bereporting to either their HR
function or their CHRO or, ifthere is a position of that, the
vice president of people.
So let's get into the mindset.
What were you thinking and whatwas sort of like your major
concerns when you were in thatrole of VP of people?
Andrew Almazan (03:05):
Yeah, absolutely , as that vice president of
people.
I took a lot of pride in thatrole.
I think it combines the verybest of what you might expect or
what you might think about whenyou think of traditional
leadership in the humanresources space, you know, um,
an acute attention to detail,with policies, regulations
(03:25):
across the country, uh, and eveninternationally if you're
working for an an internationallevel organization, uh.
But at the same time, I reallywas a big advocate for creating
a space where the VP of peoplerole could thrive at that media
company, side by side to a VP ofhuman resources who we had at
(03:49):
that time as that added layer oforganizational design and
people strategy.
I think that that's thatadditional layer You're thinking
in terms of looking at theentire organization in all its
moving functions and ensuringthat all the pieces are in
(04:13):
alignment and kind of workingtowards that overall
organizational mission and thevalues that it has.
Jay Johnson (04:24):
You know I like that division because I think in
a lot of cases and I find itinteresting the more
conversations I have with HR andHR representatives they feel
like they're kind of put in thisdouble bind of having to serve
the master, the organization,but also having to serve the
people.
So how did that relationship gowhen you have sort of a
(04:48):
designated people strategistworking in conjunction with HR?
Did people respond morepositively to the HR function?
Did they respond morepositively to the people?
Was there divisions?
How did that look in thatorganization?
Andrew Almazan (05:06):
visions.
How did that look in thatorganization?
Yeah, you know, I think thefirst step was really getting
people to understand the valueof both functions.
You know, just candidlyspeaking, I feel like and in my
experience in the HR realm for atime, I feel like the human
resources space andprofessionals on that team tend
to get a bad rap.
I think that there's a stigmathat people within an
(05:28):
organization tend to feel abouthuman resources.
They tend to feel like they arethe internal police, that
that's the primary function.
At the worst case they'reserving, maybe, the interests
and the functions of the seniorleadership team, the executive
team and risk mitigation right,and at the worst, maybe not
(05:51):
really having a pulse on theneeds, the concerns or the
initiatives that do matter mostto the people.
But I think that thatperspective lives in internal
organizational culture when youdon't do a good enough job
internally marketing the valueof the function of human
(06:13):
resources.
And I also think that as ahuman resources professional, we
have the opportunity every dayto either break past and
overcome that stigma orreinforce it.
So I tend to be yeah, I wasgoing to say I think that's
(06:34):
smart.
I'm sorry, go ahead, jay.
Jay Johnson (06:36):
No, that's totally smart and I really think about
what you just said of each day.
Our behavior is going todetermine whether we're
perceived as the executioner orthe actual.
You know the role and thefunction of.
Yeah, of course we've got tomitigate risk, or of course
we've got to be able to enforcesome of the policies, but at the
(06:56):
same time, it still is aboutthe human aspect of human
resources.
So I love that you brought thatup human aspect of human
resources.
So I love that you brought thatup.
I think that you're absolutelyright.
That bad rap comes in many casesbecause HR has been used as the
execution or function and notnecessarily deployed at the
(07:18):
highest level.
But we, as you know, in thattalent space, in that human
space, can re sort ofreestablish what our brand is as
an HR function.
How might we?
With your background in media,I have to ask the question how
do we go about marketing that?
How do we go about creating theconditions to sort of reinvent
(07:38):
ourselves?
Because I think that's a reallyimportant question both for HR
and for talent development.
Andrew Almazan (07:45):
Yeah, I love to start.
That's a great question, jay.
I appreciate that.
I like to start with thinkingabout what are the perceptions
that we need to tackle, that weneed to face, what are the tough
truths about what our peopleare saying about us at the water
cooler?
And I think that if we, asprofessionals at the highest
(08:07):
rungs of self development, witha mind for and an eye for
improvement, constant growth, ifwe can be open to that feedback
and not be defensive to it andsay, okay, perfect, here's the
opportunity We've been providedwith the blueprint.
Someone said it Someone smarterthan me said it that accusations
(08:28):
are just confessions ofpeople's interests.
And I've definitely built aphilosophy of conflict
resolution around that singularstatement.
I think it was an old professorfrom on the I didn't take law,
but she was in a professor fromthe law side of Pepperdine
University and I think she wasjust having a conversation and
(08:51):
that really stuck with me.
But I'll say it one more timethat some someone's accusations
are just confessions of theirinterests.
So, plainly speaking, ifsomeone says to their boss you
know you tend to just kind ofmow me over in meetings and kind
of shoot down my ideas, we can,as leaders get defensive about
(09:13):
that.
Or we can say you know whatJane Doe or John Doe right there
just gave me an opportunity tounderstand what their biggest
and deepest interest to workmore effectively, more
effectively with me is.
And that's an opportunity to beunderstood, to maybe recognize
the value of the ideas that theybring to the table.
And so, just, I'm a big jujitsupractitioner, so the idea of
(09:38):
flipping energy is huge to meand you know we can look at
these negatives in positivelight.
So long answers, short.
Shorter answer to your questionis taking stock of what people
are saying at the water coolerand then dissecting that.
What is that, what?
(09:58):
How can we meet people withthose criticisms and create a
dialogue that helps show themthat one we understand?
We think we understand whatyou're getting at there.
Let's check for alignment andthen, if we are aligned, let's
come up with a plan to earn yourtrust, to establish some
(10:20):
confidence in what we do.
Jay Johnson (10:22):
Some absolute gold in that statement, andrew, and I
love the flipping analogy.
I also practiced jujitsu a long, long time ago.
I haven't done it so muchrecently.
But you know, and even thephilosophy of jujitsu is you
don't have to be the biggest tohave a lot of power and control
if you can actually controlyourself.
(10:42):
And I think you know somethingthat you said that that really
resonated with me on.
That is the part about taking astep back when you experience
that criticism or you hear thatfeedback.
Um, you know, it's somethingthat, uh, jocko Willink talks a
lot about.
Time is detaching from it,taking a step back and saying,
(11:04):
okay, well, why is thisperception exist?
Or what is it about thisstatement that could be true, or
should I really evaluate aboutmyself?
But it's that defensive naturethat often gets in the way.
So now you coach executives.
How do you get them to backaway from that sort of defensive
nature?
Because this could be true,whether you know, somebody says,
(11:24):
hey, I really didn't like yourtraining that you just gave, or
hey, I didn't appreciate thelearning opportunity that you
had there.
We could take that personallybecause we divest our identity
into it.
Or we could actually take astep back, get away from that
sort of taking it personally andsay, okay, well, how can I use
this to create it?
So, in coaching executives oranybody else.
(11:45):
What's a good strategy for us?
Being able to take thatmomentary pause and say what can
I learn from this or how can Icreate an opportunity from this?
Andrew Almazan (11:56):
Yeah, that's great and I think you hit the
nail on the head there, jay,because that really is the first
step to any meaningful workbeing done.
I think at the executive level,even at the beginning stages,
if you can do that as an entrylevel professional, the sky is
definitely the limit, becauseoftentimes, like you just said,
(12:19):
I think it's not externalobstacles that get in the way of
projects being completed orvisions for initiatives that
never got off the ground.
It wasn't these external issues.
I think it was someone gettingin the way of themselves and
(12:40):
another jujitsu turn.
Just tapping out a little tooearly, tapping strategically is
definitely smart for longevity,but in the case of what we're
talking about, I think if we candetach from that emotional
response that we get when maybeyour boss rejects your idea or
(13:03):
maybe they're not as emotionallyintelligent in their response,
what I like to tell executivesis you're not in control of how
that individual critiqued.
Maybe if they, you know, wecould sit here and wish that you
had a supervisor that had ahigher level of EQ in that
moment.
But we're not here to talk aboutwhat we wish was different.
(13:27):
Let's focus on what's withinyour control to still push
forward an outcome that you wishto seek and really, once we can
kind of get the ego calmed downbecause I do think the ego is
important still there's animportant part that it plays in
terms of passionately pursuingand having that sheer
(13:51):
self-belief, especially whenyou're pushing something that it
only feels like you're the onlyone who believes it.
You have to have a healthylevel of ego to get that thing
to the finish line, but you haveto quiet it enough to not be so
uber sensitive to all theexternal factors that are vying
for your response.
(14:12):
So if we can kind of get thatan individual to that place,
then I think the secret not thesecret, but the area of where I
focus on really gettingmeaningful work done with
executives is now let's unpackwhat's within your control,
(14:32):
let's focus on those levers andthen outside of that, you know
what do the people that arerelying on you stand to gain if
you absolutely crush it andbring this thing to life?
Jay Johnson (14:48):
I love that.
So it's super fitting with evensomething that we teach, which
is the behavioral intelligencemodel, which is explain and
predict behaviors as two pillarsor two components.
And then the last twocomponents are influence and
control, and part of that is wecan influence somebody else's
behavior.
We can't control them and thenwe can control our own behavior,
(15:12):
which can then lead toinfluencing others.
So being able to understandthat difference of, hey, I can't
control how they feel, whattheir perception is, how they
communicate, what they talkabout, but I can control myself
and my reaction to it and what Itake from it.
So your comment on the ego, Ithink, is super smart, because
(15:32):
when I am a big proponent of ego, I just think that people
misrepresent or misunderstandwhat the ego does.
I think when they think ego,they think of all the
egotistical baggage that comesalong with it.
But I think somebody thatactually has a really strong and
healthy ego is the personthat's able to say huh, I hadn't
considered that about myself.
(15:52):
Let me think about that, becausethey're comfortable in who they
are.
Their ego is is solid, asopposed to it being the fragile
ego that turns around and says Iknow you are, but what am I?
You know, right, right.
So I think having a healthy egois really actually having the
sturdy foundation to be able toturn your perception inwards and
(16:12):
say, yeah, okay, I can see alittle bit of that, here's how I
might be able to adapt, orhere's how I might be able to
shift or change or or take adifferent mindset.
And I want to get into thatbecause I'd love to learn a
little bit more about yourphilosophy and approach when it
comes to these executives thatyou're coaching, and what we
(16:33):
might be able to infer from thatis from the coaches or trainers
that are listening, thinkingabout you know, how does, how
does my philosophy play versusyou know different potential
perspective philosophy, so goahead if you would share a
little bit about that for us.
Andrew Almazan (16:49):
Absolutely, jay.
So for me, I'm a big.
I'm a big proponent of balance,especially in the business
world.
And when I'm, the balance thatI'm referring to is both your
creativity and innovative sideof your thinking.
But then also, if we're talkingabout business, you know
(17:10):
numbers matter, tangibleoutcomes matter, and you know
you can be as creative andinnovative as of a professional.
But if you have a challenge, ifeither that means it's just
something that you are averse toquantifying things, if you are
(17:30):
just averse to being able topour into the metrics and look
for patterns, you're going tohave a very tough time
advocating either for yourself,for your team, whether that
comes down to things like moreresources, more fiscal support,
(17:50):
so being able to be a creative,but then also understand that
the language of business reallydoes come down to the tangible
metrics that kind of move oureconomy.
I like to coach executives andemerging leaders in in the
discipline of understanding thatyou can't have, you can't
(18:10):
succeed without being uh, at thevery least having a healthy
respect for both Um so projectmanagement, uh, you know, have,
have beautiful and disruptiveideas, but be disciplined in
terms of being able tocommunicate to yourself, to your
(18:31):
team and your supervisors aboveyou how you're going to produce
tangible outcomes for thebusiness for your department.
So that might be a kind of likea way that I do that.
Jay Johnson (18:46):
I love that and you said one of my favorite words
in the world balance, which wetalk about a lot actually on
this podcast.
You know balancing out thosedrives the drive to acquire
versus the drive to bond withpeople, the drive to innovate
and learn or the drive to defend, and you know, tamp down on
risk.
So I love that you bring thatup.
Now, one of the things thatI've experienced, both in my
(19:10):
professional life but also inworking with some different
executives, is oftentimesthey're coming into a space with
very little balance and usuallythat's part of the reason why
they're getting an executivecoach or part of the reason why
you know they're engaging.
What is it that you know?
When we are coaching executives, how do we help them see that
(19:34):
imbalance that they're having?
How do you coach them throughthat to become aware of it or to
surface some of those internals?
Because we can say, hey, andrew, you're imbalanced right now
and what's going to happen, morethan likely, is the defense
mechanisms, the rejection, thewalls that are coming up.
So it is a process of gettingothers to kind of surface it for
(19:55):
themselves.
How do you do that?
How do you go about that?
Andrew Almazan (19:58):
Yeah, and I think you know I'm not speaking
for all coaches and trainers andHR professionals who do this
full time for their teams withintheir company but my style I
love a good conversation and Ido appreciate the value of what
it means to be empathetic and Ithink that's really the first
(20:19):
step is to, I think, in throughgenuine dialogue that resonates
with whoever that individual isthat you're sitting across the
room from.
You have to be able to increasetheir empathy meter for the
thing that we're talking about,for the conflict or the
(20:40):
opportunity of development thatwe're talking about.
And if you can raise that, Icall it that empathy meter for
them.
Apply that behavior that we'retalking about.
Maybe we'll use the examplefrom previous moments ago Maybe
they're an executive that tendsto mow over other people's ideas
(21:01):
.
They squash the ideas.
We need to discover why that isright, without raising their
defenses.
Through that conversation and Ithink, reinforcing that what we
are doing is we're excavatingand we know we might go into
places where it feels likeyou're being attacked and just
(21:22):
letting that individual know.
No, this might be a littlescary, this might be a little
frustrating through thesemoments where I'm probing here,
but understand what we stand togain what your team stands to
gain, if we can look at what'shappening what people are saying
about you is happening andreverse engineer a plan, maybe a
(21:44):
different approach to yourday-to-day that allows you to
get better outcomes from yourpeople.
Jay Johnson (21:52):
I love that.
So it is, yes, the empathymeter.
I like that concept and let'splay with this concept here for
a second too, because I thinkabout this and I go all right,
you've got an executive and thisis.
The question is going to bemore broad in general, but, like
, let's take it from thisperspective of the executive,
(22:13):
they have gotten to a high levelposition.
They've obviously the behaviorsthat they have exhibited over
the course of their career haveon some level served them well.
So, whether that was the notlistening or rejecting or
whatever, they've made it tothis executive level, which then
you know, when we're rewardedfor our behaviors, well, we
(22:33):
reinforce those behaviors and dothose behaviors again.
So my question and the generalquestion is is because I know
the trainers and the coaches inthe audience have experienced
this this what happens when youget that executive that's
resistant to change and thatjust doesn't want to push
forward with something ordoesn't see the value of it,
(22:54):
Like, well, I am who I am andit's gotten me this far.
You know that sort of mentalitythat's like the antithesis to
growth and development.
What do you do to sort ofencourage, empower or influence
that sort of shift in thinking?
Andrew Almazan (23:10):
Yeah, I have a very simple prompt that I've
honed through a fewconversations with that and it's
as simple as asking them in thesame stroke when we ask what do
your people, what is yourcompany, what does this
organization stand to gain Ifyou absolutely succeed in this
(23:32):
thing that we're working on,getting them to really focus and
and get that out on paper inthe same conversation, asking
them what does this organization, what is your team, what do you
as a professional stand to loseif you don't, if you fail?
Jay Johnson (23:53):
I love that the inverse pro and con list, with
the pros of doing it and whatare the cons that are going to
exist if you don't do it.
I really love that approach sobrilliant.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhat success looks like.
How do you measure success?
How do you you know you finish,you finish a coaching program,
(24:15):
or even even when you wereworking within your teams, what
was it that you define success?
You know, part of the reason westarted this podcast was
because we know that, from likedata out there in the industry,
nine out of 10 trainings fail tolead to any kind of
organizational impact or results.
We know that less than 23% ofthe people that attend a
(24:35):
training or go through some kindof coaching program actually
shift to behavior.
So, from your perspective, whatdoes success look like?
An organization invests in acoach, or even the leader
invests in a coach.
How do you define what that ROIor what that success is for
them?
Andrew Almazan (24:56):
Yeah, that's a great question and that really
comes down to the crux of it all.
Right, in terms of what we doas professional coaches,
trainers and executives forcompanies.
Coaches, trainers andexecutives for companies we, we
and I said this just last weekwe live and die professionally
by how well we articulate andexecute on the ROI that we
(25:20):
create for our people.
And so, to answer your question, jay, I think I like to live
life a little bit on the edgewith my coaching.
There's no template KPI forclients.
Through a discovery call, wemutually develop or extract what
(25:42):
the deepest, most high-impactgoal looks and feels like for
that executive or for thatexecutive's team.
If it's a team coaching, welist it out, we boil it down to
like three things, um, and wecheck for alignment on that.
And so the KPIs, client byclient, are always different.
(26:02):
Some might be a little morequalitative.
Uh, you know it might be.
Hey, at the end of ourengagement, I'd love for you to
facilitate a 360 peer review forwhere we have a sample size of
subordinate level, peer leveland supervisory level people.
I want to be able to crush atleast an 80% score eight out of
(26:26):
10 across the board, perfect.
For someone else it might be.
Hey, I'm a sales rep, anational sales rep.
I just have trouble stayingorganized.
A KPI for them that we'veworked on in the past is hey,
I'd like to see an increase net,you know, like two 3% in sales
over 90 days of us workingtogether specifically through
(26:47):
you helping me dial in myorganizational approach.
So I chance it client to client, because everybody's different
and every professional'sopportunities are different,
right?
So I would think I would bedoing someone a disservice and I
would actually encourage othertrainers and other leaders who
(27:10):
are listening to this to takethat chance to and treat
everybody as an individual.
You might have, like yourtemplate offerings, but really
the most valuable thing we cando as coaches is serve as that
coach, right, that sees thingsfrom a different vantage point
and sees everyone for theirunique selves with their unique
(27:31):
opportunities.
And it might be a little morework, uh, to to step outside of
that and tailor, tailorsomething, uh, some success
metrics to that professional,but that's how you create a, you
know, long-term value.
Jay Johnson (27:47):
Couldn't agree more , and I think it applies not
only just to coaching but alsoto training too, like developing
some kind of custom, specific,clear objectives for the
training or the offerings thatyou're going to be giving and
making sure that those arealigned with the business
objectives and being able to askthe right questions to get to
(28:08):
there.
So you know, as you mentioned,going through that process of
discovery and asking thequestions to really get to the
KPIs and we talk about KPIs onhere, but if you're just joining
and you're not familiar, it'skey performance indicators,
which is one of the measurementsthat generally we would look at
to make sure that, hey, we youknow we only had people laughing
10 times a day and we want themlaughing 20 times a day.
(28:30):
That could be a KPI that you'retraining for or developing for
or coaching for.
I used just a simple one thereas an example, but I think it's
really important when we look atit and say how is this person
showing up?
Because even if I'm doing asales training and I have my
organizational objectives well,how each of those people are
(28:52):
performing.
Some of them may be making athousand calls and just not
getting a close.
Some of them may be making ahundred calls and only getting
two meetings or whatever else.
How they approach that andgiving them some space to
develop what is it that I needto do to be successful can be a
really powerful approach.
But you're right, it does takemore energy and more effort and
(29:12):
more work.
So, as we kind of get to thatspace, do you have any tactics,
tips, strategies that you wouldencourage the audience to
consider when it's, you know,putting in that extra amount of
effort?
And is there anything that youdo to really kind of synthesize
that or make it more efficient?
Or, from your experience, evenbeing as a VP of people, what
(29:35):
were some of the things that youwould tactically do in order to
create the conditions for kindof that individualized learning?
Andrew Almazan (29:43):
Yeah, absolutely .
And if I could, I think thebest way for me to share those
strategies is to kind of work myway back from some anecdotal
evidence.
I have it noted here, but it'sa recent and real world outcome
that we've been able to enjoyhere, with me working alongside
(30:04):
a general manager for the last10 to 12 months.
So I'll start with the outcomesand then kind of maybe we can
talk about how we got there.
But as of January, we looked athis KPIs, and his biggest KPIs
have to do with the revenue thatthe building generates for the
(30:25):
business.
January, year over year, he wasable to, alongside his team,
see a 13% year over yearincrease in sales.
And this is in a decliningmarket, a declining and
saturated market, where in thehospitality and craft brewing
space, three to 5% year overyear increases would be
considered a strong increase.
Jay Johnson (30:48):
And especially now, because it seems like it seems
like there's a big move towardslike mocktails and partake, you
know, non-alcoholics or any ofthose types of things.
That seems like you know fromthe upcoming generations that
drinking is on the decline.
You also have market factorsthat are on the decline, so that
13% year over year is prettyincredible.
(31:09):
I just I want to point that out.
Andrew Almazan (31:11):
Yeah, and you know that's the hats off to him.
And I'll start with thisgeneral manager first.
I think, as leaders, receivingcoaching, receiving guidance,
having the mindset to balanceagain, mindset to balance again
(31:33):
both the burden and theresponsibility, the ownership of
understanding that you run theship, the ship sails or it sinks
with you, that ownershipbalanced with the healthy ego
that we were talking about earlyJay, to say, though I have that
level of responsibility, thoughI command that level of
responsibility, though I commandthat level of authority and
decision-making power, I amstill not above learning,
(31:55):
absorbing new information andbeing a student, probably more
often than I'm actually showingup as a leader, and probably I'd
say that's the biggest thingthat a leader can do is
demonstrate to their people thatthere's value in being a
student, even at the highestrungs.
It's empowering, I think.
Jay Johnson (32:15):
Trainers and coaches.
Take that, because, as atrainer and coach, one of the
most important things is that wenever stop learning ourselves
and valuing that process oflearning.
So I agree with that, andrewKeep going.
Andrew Almazan (32:27):
Absolutely and valuing that process of learning
.
So I agree with that, andrew,keep going Absolutely.
So you know.
Long story short though youknow 13% year over year increase
when we look at January toJanuary Q4, 6% growth year over
year.
And then, in terms of his Q4sales, he beat the goal by 2%.
So three major metrics, I meanyou know.
Next we're gonna work on how dowe continue to build a record of
(32:50):
achievement for this generalmanager so that they can
continue to ramp up, grow, keepvying for resources and keep
innovating new opportunities togenerate revenue.
But at the same time, bygenerating revenue, there's a
lot more to gain.
The community gains because nowyou have this beautiful place
(33:10):
that patrons feel that like theycan call a home away from home.
New networking opportunitiesare happening, so like everyone
stands to gain within theecosystem.
But enough on that side.
How did we get there right?
So it really started with thestrength-based approach.
(33:31):
I'm a big believer in it.
Um, you know, uh, focusing onsomeone's strengths and doubling
down on those.
Not to say that we shouldn'tpay attention to people's gaps,
but I think that there's, um,there's a book out there.
I forget the name of the book,but it talks about.
Uh, you know the movie Rudy andum, the great movie, a great
(33:57):
classic.
But it flipped the, the conceptof kind of you know, taking
somebody who maybe wasn't asproficient and pouring all that
time into energy to get the onetouchdown.
It challenges that perceptionby saying what if we focused on
what Rudy was strong at, maybeRudy was like a highly
(34:18):
analytical strategist, maybe hemight've been a better, you know
, sideline advisor to the coach,right and still contributing to
the team's wins or theirperformance.
Jay Johnson (34:30):
Yeah, you know Gallup and their Strength
Finders assessment is actuallyone of the assessments that I've
really used and their wholeapproach is if you're spending
most of your time in your topfive strengths, you're probably
going to be happier, moreproductive and feel more valued
for the work that you're doingthan if you're spending the rest
(34:52):
of your time on the other 28 orhowever many strengths there
are that are below that in thestrengths DNA.
So there's some pretty goodevidence that's been done by
Gallup on how important it is toreally sort of stay I don't
want to say stay in your lane,because we can always develop,
we can always learn new thingsbut really kind of tapping into
that and saying, hey, let'sspend 80% of our time dedicated
(35:15):
in this strength world and youknow if you're going to do other
things, really only make that20% of your time or whatever the
you know, whatever the,whatever the percentages might
lie on that.
So, yeah, how do you helppeople find?
And really kind of because nowI'm going to say this and this
is coming I used to be a hockeyplayer, I used to be an MMA
person, I used to be a number ofthings and there was a lot of
(35:38):
people who thought that they hadreally good strengths and they
were probably their biggest gapsand weaknesses.
And then there was other peoplethat were thinking to themselves
that they had these gaps andweaknesses and it's just like,
really you think that that's agap, like that's one of your
biggest strengths.
How do you help them sort ofnavigate that space of either,
you know, that sort of biasperception of strength or the
(36:02):
we'll call it the imposterperception of strength?
Andrew Almazan (36:05):
Yeah, there's a couple of ways I think that you
could do that.
You know, as a coach, dependingon what your level of you know,
uh, empathy is right, I think.
I.
I really do think that that isone of those X factor traits
that helps, uh, a coach, atrainer, an executive kind of,
read that gap qualitatively.
Hey, is this person as we'rehaving this conversation, you
(36:27):
can sense if that person'sself-perception is in alignment
with what others might perceive,that external perception.
And I think if you're a coach,trainer, executive,
qualitatively you could startthere.
Oh man, this person's actuallypretty centered, they're good,
they're locked in with theirself-perception and external
(36:50):
perception.
You can then act as a coach toguide that person, have them
objectify some of those areas.
But let's say, maybe you wantto fact check, you want to fact
check what you're reading.
You could facilitate a 360 sortof peer review.
You can gather data, you cangather feedback from people that
(37:13):
either that person trusts aswell within their organization
and on their team.
You can hold kind of privateone-on-one sessions and build a
picture.
I think that that's what.
When I say coach, coach, movingforward through the rest of this
conversation, you know I'mtalking about anybody who has
taken on the mantle of coachingsomebody, taking on that.
(37:33):
You know that honored time,time and energy that it takes to
help someone develop.
Um, you can build that pictureby interviewing others, getting
a scope of the perception, andthen from there you can kind of
start to diagnose what are theseconsistent patterns that we're
(37:53):
seeing?
You're mowing over inconversation?
Or you're highly analytical,but people tend to say that you
work in a silo.
They're not really sure thetrust and collaboration isn't
really felt.
Analytical, but people tend tosay that you work in a silo.
They're not really sure youknow the trust and collaboration
isn't really felt, but peopledefinitely rate you high in your
(38:15):
intelligence and your abilityto you know, analyze and come to
smart fiscal decisions for thisbusiness.
These sorts of you knowone-liner statements.
We can then present that andthen create a roadmap for
development.
Jay Johnson (38:27):
That's smart.
The 360 approach is superpowerful and even you know, even
getting executives sometimes toask for authentic feedback and
creating the space for somebodyto feel safe in giving them
feedback.
I know that that's somethingthat, as the CEO of my company,
(38:47):
it is one of those things whereI have pounded into my team.
Look, I am a human.
I make mistakes, there arethings that I don't see and that
are gaps, and I am a student oflearning.
You have to help me and you canhelp me by giving me good
feedback and telling me how Icould be the better leader for
you.
So I love that 360 approach andgetting that outside perspective
(39:08):
, and even you know whether it'squalitative or quantitative.
You know those perceptionscreate reality.
So I might think that I'm theabsolute most inspiring person
and you know, if the perceptionof my team is now you're not all
that inspiring, well, I need totake a step back, like we
talked about earlier, and say,well, why, what is it that I'm
(39:28):
not doing or how could I show upin a different way?
That's going to create theperception that I'm feeling
inside.
Andrew Almazan (39:34):
Yeah, I want to add something real quick.
Jay, you just inspired athought too, when you said to
your team like you know, um, youknow, to hold me accountable
essentially right In so manywords.
That reminds me I helpedfacilitate a three, 64, um, uh,
a VP at the media company andone of the things that netted
(39:58):
the best feedback and this is atip for anybody who's planning
or or sees the value in doing itfor somebody on their team is
doing a good job with theinternal marketing.
I always come back to that.
That's.
Another best practice to getsome tangible KPIs is you have
(40:19):
to bring your people along forthe journey.
It's not when you're coachingan executive, because of the
amount of things and the amountof silos that an executive's
impact can influence.
You have to bring on the entireorganization, or, at the very
least, key departments, alongfor the journey, so
(40:41):
communicating to your people.
What we did with the VP was welet them know.
Hey, full canter guys, fulldisclosure.
This VP has chosen to lean intouncovering the benefits of going
through a self-developmentprocess.
Part of that process is a 360review and we're going to have
(41:03):
key milestones as part of theirdevelopment, because they're so
committed to increasing thesuccess of this organization and
we also value your guys'feedback through this process.
At the beginning we want totake a baseline, in the middle
we want to give this executivean opportunity to course correct
and at the end we want to letthem know how they're faring and
(41:26):
what they can do outside andpass this engagement.
We would love to secure some ofyour time through these miles,
these, these points in the road.
Would that be okay?
You know, that's that's kind ofhow we got that best view and
that was a great 360facilitation when we took the
time to slow down and saythere's more communication
(41:50):
involved in making sure thatthis process is not just, you
know, accomplished, but weabsolutely knock it out of the
park too is.
Jay Johnson (42:00):
You know, if we improve the internal
communication of everything,like our trainings, what's the
purpose, what's the intent, howthey can help, how they can
support, why it achieves abusiness objective, why it
impacts the individual that'sgoing there?
You know that internalcommunication is oftentimes it's
just assumed right, like it'sassumed like oh, I got a 360.
(42:24):
It's just assumed right, likeit's assumed like oh, I got a
360.
And we assume that everybody onthe team already knows well,
it's a 360.
It must be because the VP istrying to develop or trying to
do something great or trying tobe better.
But even though it's assumed,it's actually not, it's not
there and that internalcommunication can really align
and then also show people thatinternal communication can
really align and then also showpeople, hey, you know what this
(42:46):
360 feedback or whatever, thissurvey feedback, this interview,
it actually matters andsomebody is going to be looking
at it.
Because I mean, how many timesdo we take surveys or whatever
else, and be like is anybodyactually reading this shit?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely.
That internal communication.
It's a great, a great, greattip.
Andrew Almazan (43:06):
I really like that one yeah and jay, I just I
I can't stress it enough, youknow like.
I know we live we well, I'vebeen parts of conversations
where, you know, people haveplayed devil's advocate.
Other people in the seniorleadership team have said and I
get it I um the sensitivity totime and energy and where we
(43:27):
place it, especially when we'refocusing on an initiative, sat
in a room with business partnersand the devil's advocate might
be saying is that the best useof our time?
If we've got X amount of timeto spin up this initiative and
crush it, we're already allbought in, but is that where it
needs to go?
You know, um being we live inan in a world where people do
(43:50):
need to be reminded of the valueand the impact that their
contribution is going to havedirectly on an initiative.
Because the digital age, we're,we're we're fed so much
information and we're we're fedso many call to actions.
It really comes down to that.
Right Like, we need to remindsomeone that, look, this is not
(44:12):
just another 10 pings in yourspam email box.
Right Like this is if you candedicate at least five focused
minutes, you are having anintegral impact to this
professional's development andif they develop, this entire
company stands to gain.
Jay Johnson (44:31):
Yep, brilliant, andrew.
There's so much good out ofthis conversation that, if
you're a trainer, if you're acoach, an HR person that's
listening I hope you're able totake some of these concepts and
really think about how you canput them into practice.
But, andrew, how would they getin touch with you if they
wanted to connect?
Andrew Almazan (44:50):
reach out and find my information at
wwwbraveleadershipguildcom.
You can find me, andrew Almazan, at LinkedIn.
(45:14):
And then I also have anInstagram where I share kind of
just free value.
I do carousel posts where,using some real world
experiences, I just like want toput it out into the feed.
So brave leadership guild onInstagram.
Jay Johnson (45:24):
It's incredible, Andrew.
I want to put it out into thefeed so brave leadership guild
on Instagram.
It's incredible.
Andrew, I want to say thank youfor being here with us today,
for sharing your insights, bothas the VP of people as well as
your current role, and you knowyour approach to coaching.
I really love the philosophy.
I think that there's so manygreat things that we can
incorporate from thisconversation, so thank you for
taking the time to be here withus today.
Andrew Almazan (45:44):
Jay, thank you.
It's an honor to meet you, man,and good luck to you and your
initiatives down the road andeveryone else that listens as
well.
Good luck to all you guys onyour journey.
Jay Johnson (45:53):
Yes, and thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge,where we are shaping the future
of training and development.
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