March 7, 2025 • 39 mins
Explore the dynamic world of inclusion with Delphia Howze in our latest episode! Delphia shares her surprising career journey from aspiring attorney to leading advocate for inclusive practices in the workplace. In a world that increasingly values diverse perspectives, she unpacks why inclusion should not solely be the responsibility of leadership. Instead, each individual plays a critical role in creating a culture that enables everyone to thrive.
Join us to learn how you can take actionable steps toward inclusivity in your work environment and engage authentically with your colleagues. Subscribe, share, and leave a review to help us shape the future of training and development together!
Please enjoy one free audio review copy of Including You!: Leading Inclusion From Where You Are, now available on Audible. Redeem the one-time use code below at https://www.audible.com/acx-promo: 382RKWTFJ9U2S
Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jay Johnson (00:01):
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where we are shaping the futureof training and development.
I'm very excited to welcome aspecial guest today, Delphia
Howze.
Welcome to the show, Delphia.
Delphia Howze (00:12):
Thank you so very much.
Happy to be here.
Jay Johnson (00:14):
So you've got an incredible history and some
really interesting things goingon, and I'd love for the
audience to be up to speed.
Tell us, Delphia, how did youget into this space and what are
you working on right now?
Delphia Howze (00:27):
Yes, so I got into this space by happenstance.
So I was, you know, when I wasin college and all growing up I
wanted to be a high poweredattorney taking on taking the
world by storm.
But once I got to law school Irealized that that might not be
the best option.
I went, I started my career inthe field of banking, really had
(00:47):
the opportunity to understandhow to work with people, how to
navigate things.
So I ascended the ladder prettyrapidly as an officer within
the bank, led teams, led HRteams within the banking
industry, loved it so much,especially loved the training
(01:07):
aspect of it.
But recognized that there was achallenge in the sense that we
were not.
A lot of the branches under mypurview were not connecting with
the community in the mostimpactful way, for you know
bottom line and ROI.
So I started to do someresearch and recognize that the
reality was a lot of ourbranches were in urban settings
(01:29):
and the individuals who wereleading the branches, my
managers, were not familiar withthat type of environment.
They were coming from adifferent type of environment
that created a little bit of adisconnect.
Did some further research?
Realized that we had theopportunity, barked up a couple
of trees with our presidents andeventually our president said
(01:52):
Delphi, if it's that importantto you, do something about it.
And that's kind of the worstthing that you can ever say to
me, because I can go down a pathand just get going.
But it worked out very well.
I started the first diversityprogram there and kind of just
continued to really focus.
(02:13):
And at the time you know I hateto say how old I am, but you
know at the time it wasn't ahuge focus, but there was a
realization for an opportunityto do something different.
And that's where I got my startin the field of focusing on how
do we bridge the gaps of peopleconnecting so that individuals
can be their best selves and sothat organizations can be
(02:35):
successful.
Jay Johnson (02:37):
That's incredible, delphia, and there's so many
things that really resonated.
Number one is I swear, the morepeople I talk to on this show
and anywhere else thataccidentally got into this, I'm
really starting to believe thattraining, talent development and
HR is a calling.
It's less of a choice.
(02:58):
I don't think anybody's likeyou know what I want to grow up
and be a trainer but then all ofa sudden the people just kind
of find their way to thisbecause I am in the same boat
and so many of our other guestshave been as well.
So I found that really funny.
And I'm in the same boat withyou, as I started off thinking
I'm going to go be a highpowered lawyer, and then I got
an internship while I was incollege and I sat at a copy
(03:23):
machine for eight and a halfhours and I'm like I am not
going to be a lawyer.
So I found that really funny.
Now, one of the things I knowthat you've been working on is
your book Leading Inclusion Fromwhen you Are.
So including you leadinginclusion where you are.
I want to talk about thatbecause I think inclusion is one
(03:46):
of those areas that we all tryto strive to get there, but then
, when the rubber meets the road, we sometimes fall a little bit
short.
I'm going to give you anexample of this, but first let's
talk about your book.
Give us an overview of this,and I know it's available on
Amazon and you're releasing theaudible version of it right now.
(04:08):
So tell us a little bit aboutit.
Delphia Howze (04:10):
Yes, absolutely so, including you, leading
inclusion from where you are.
I chose that topic specificallybecause I wanted to make sure
that people realize that thisinvolves everyone.
Whether we want it to touch usor not, it is going to touch us
Right, because the reality isevery single one of us, as
humans, have experienced afeeling or an experience, have
(04:33):
had an experience of exclusionRight, whether it was back in
kindergarten, whether it waslast month, whether it was when
we first started our firstposition.
But exclusion is a reality andit does not feel good and so and
it doesn't bring out the bestin people.
So my baseline thought is whywould we want that to be in our
(04:55):
environments, and particularlyin our work environments?
We want to precipitate the best.
We want people to be the best.
We want to have the best outputand productivity.
So, therefore, we have tocreate and ensure that we have
inclusive environments whereeveryone can thrive, and that
responsibility does not simplyreside with leadership or with
(05:15):
HR.
Every single person within theorganization can do small things
to help to ensure that theenvironment is inclusive and
that that is sustainable,because, really, when it gets
down to it, we're dealing withpeople, and when you deal with
people.
We know that there's a lot ofnuances and challenges in doing
so, simply because we're allcoming at everything from our
(05:37):
own perspectives.
But taking the time tointentionally focus on inclusion
, we create this wonderfulalchemy of opportunity to ensure
that people can be their best.
Jay Johnson (05:52):
I really love how you've framed that as from where
you are right, because at theend of the day, we do often kind
of rely on either leadership ororganizational culture, like,
oh well, we have an inclusiveculture, but it sort of takes a
little of that personalresponsibility that we have as
individuals for creating thatenvironment.
(06:13):
Now I'm going to ask a coupleof things here, because our
trainers, our coaches, our HRpeople, you know, when we think
about designing for an inclusiveenvironment or setting up a
training or a learningopportunity for an inclusive
environment, what are some ofthe things that maybe we should
be thinking about in thatinitial design phase, because
(06:37):
it's really the work that we putin before that makes the
experience smooth, not only forus but for their participants.
So what should we be thinkingabout like from get go day one,
the starting line?
Delphia Howze (06:50):
Yes, I think that's a great question when I
think about beginning orinitiating a training program.
We know that the ADDIE modelright A-D-D-I-E right.
So assessing and reallyunderstanding, through that
assessment, who is involved andwho are you talking to?
Many people will say, well,we're assessing and really
focusing on this demographicgroup or in this group of people
(07:11):
or in this specific team.
But the reality is, when we'retalking about inclusion, it is
each and every one of thoseright, and not only each and
every one of those, but it's theindividuals within each and so
when you think about designingany type of program, in my
opinion it is very critical,it's absolutely necessary to
(07:32):
understand that who you'respeaking to and who you're
designing the module for issomething that can touch every
single person because it growslegs.
And when you think aboutparticularly designing programs
and strategies around inclusion,some organizations are still,
you know, working through DEI,some are working through just DI
(07:54):
, some are just working throughI.
But when you think about that,the reality is you have to get
to the core human-centricintegrity, recognizing that,
through that assessment phase,that should be the area of focus
or one of the corehuman-centric integrity,
recognizing that, through thatassessment phase, that should be
the area of focus or one of thecore areas of focus, before you
get to the DDIE.
Jay Johnson (08:13):
Love that, and we've talked a little bit about
Addy on the show in severaldifferent episodes.
So, audience, if you need arefresher on Addy, go back and
check out any of those, becauseit is a powerful, powerful model
and the way that we look atassessment in the beginning can
really determine the evaluativeoutcomes that we have at the end
(08:34):
, and it's an essential aspect.
So we always talk about gettinga return on investment for our
training and being strategicwith it.
So this is a great model to doso, delphia, I'm going to dig a
little bit deeper and I'm goingto share a moment of
vulnerability here.
You know, recently we hadconducted a leadership retreat.
It's very deep, immersiveretreat and one of our
(08:56):
participants was a person who isblind and that really shifted
the dynamic of us thinking abouthow do we do some of these
exercises.
Because, again, some of it wasout outdoor training, team
building.
You know, go build a tower andsome of the stuff was even like
very advanced models put onto ascreen.
(09:18):
So, you know, the training teamin the assessment and in the
design phase really kind of satback and had a conversation
about how can we make sure thatthis is a great experience, how
can we empower the participantsto engage, which they did, and I
think at the end of the day, wewere successful in creating an
inclusive environment.
That was very, very meaningful.
(09:39):
But that is not to say thatthere was not several times in
the middle of a four dayfacilitation that I had to be
caught.
You know, the training team wasgreat.
We would remind each other hey,don't forget, describe what you
see on the screen, don't forget, give this as a direction,
don't forget, get somebody to.
You know, work with this personso that they can write their
(10:01):
letter, et cetera.
And the participant wasexceptional.
I mean, it was not hindered atall, fully engaged, absolutely
loved it.
So, like I said, outcome great.
But I felt guilty.
There was points and times,because I have been in the DEI
space in some capacity, whetherit was in the university 20
years ago, whether it's beenteaching inclusive principles
(10:24):
and practices for healthcare, etcetera.
I felt really guilty becausethere was definitely points in
times that I was eitherdistracted I had a thousand
priorities running because I wasone of the head trainers.
So I'm trying to manage all thelogistics with the organizing
team and I had to reset thelogistics with the organizing
(10:46):
team and I had to reset.
How might, and we're human and Iknow that, and I even
acknowledged it and said, hey, Iwant to point this out, that
this is really important, butit's something that I failed at
in this last module.
I want to bring that to thesurface and I want to say I'm
sorry and I'm going to do betterin this next one.
So I took ownership for it.
But how can we kind of reset orhow can we keep that top of
(11:08):
mind when, as a trainer or acoach, we have so many different
things that are coming at usand so many different aspects?
What do you do to really kindof make sure that we're always
thinking in an inclusive mindset, that it's not something that
we're switching on and off orthat we're always thinking in an
inclusive mindset, that it'snot something that we're
switching on and off or thatwe're staying true to?
(11:29):
During this session Does thatmake sense?
Delphia Howze (11:31):
Absolutely yes, and I think that we all fall
into that trap, guess what?
Because we're human, right.
And so because we're human, weare fallible.
We do have, you know, points ofvulnerability, and I think that
I love that you said resetright.
So I think the first thing isto recognize that we have as a
trainer right.
I was a trainer for severalyears as well and love it and
(11:54):
still do it when I go tospeaking engagements in
different events.
I think it is important torecognize that the first thing
when we step into an arena I'mjust going to say right into
that space, we have to bevulnerable.
The biggest challenge forfacilitators, I believe, or one
of them, is walking into anenvironment.
(12:16):
Thinking that you knoweverything and that you're going
to be able to do everythingwill fail every time.
Jay Johnson (12:22):
Right.
Delphia Howze (12:23):
So we, we have to be recognized that
vulnerability and sit in it andbe okay with it and be okay with
asking for that raise right.
Yes, we're here to facilitatethis module and to make sure
that we're meeting the needs ofour audience.
At the same time, we have a setof experiences that are, or are
(12:44):
not, part of what we'rebringing into this room.
So I think it's a double Idon't want to say double-edged
sword.
I think it's give and take,right.
You said the attendee was, youknow, supportive and great about
the process.
But I think that that issomething that we have to help
people to recognize, accept thatvulnerability that we're
(13:26):
bringing and that we're going tomess up sometimes, you know, it
may look like we're not goingto, but we will and, at the same
time, recognizing, from thefacilitator standpoint, that
walking in there, you have todemonstrate that and be prepared
for it.
So, you know, as our brainsdevelop and accept different
types of experiences,neuroplasticity right,
(13:49):
neuroplasticity helps us toresonate more quickly to
different types of environmentsbecause of the experiential
purview that we have ongoing.
But the reality is we have togive ourselves time to be able
to have those experiences, toget better at them, and so it's
again.
It's a two-way street wherepeople on both sides of the
(14:12):
street have to recognize thatvulnerability and grace are the
key.
Jay Johnson (14:17):
I love that and it really you're spot on.
It's funny.
It's like you're in a roombecause I mean, that's exactly
what it was, is like, hey, youknow, we're doing our best here
and you're doing your best hereand we're going to collaborate
to create the best possibleenvironment, and that's exactly
what happens.
So I mean that was that wastruly nice, because one of the
(14:37):
things that I can be is a littlebit of a perfectionist.
So when I do have those momentsand that reset was really
something of saying, ok, I can'tget into my own headspace on
this, I can't let that happen.
So let's address it, manage itand move on and really kind of
make sure that we're bringingour best into that next section,
(14:58):
our best into that next section.
You know, when we're looking atengaging and maybe having that
conversation up front, I think alot of people are afraid to
have that conversation, to maybehave a conversation with an
attendee with a different set ofskills or abilities or anything
else.
How would you suggest maybeopening up that conversation in
(15:21):
a functional and inclusive way,where it's, you know, it's full
of dignity, it's full of respect, it's full of, like curiosity
even?
What are your thoughts on that,delphia?
Delphia Howze (15:31):
That's a fantastic question.
I really think that, um again,resting on the, the, the, the
roots of vulnerability myfavorite question and you I'm
sure you've asked this manytimes and others have as well,
but it serves such a greatpurpose and I'll speak to the
purpose in a moment.
But the question is help me tounderstand right.
(15:53):
It's as simple as that.
If you enter a situation or aninteraction with another
individual that you're lookingto help, support, work with,
whatever the case may be,knowing that you don't have that
same experience as thatindividual and that you will
(16:14):
likely never have the sameexperience as that other
individual, the simple questionof help me to understand X, y, z
, whatever it is, opens the doorin a way that doesn't point
fingers, that's not accusatory,that's not judgmental, but gives
demonstration to yourvulnerability as an individual
(16:34):
and your desire to see into theother person.
So I use that question and Iprobably say it at least once a
day, simply because in differentsituations it really well, not
in different, in all situationsit has helped me to demonstrate
(16:55):
to people that I care about themand that I really want to know
and I'm not doing this workperformatively and I'm not doing
it just to check a box and moveon.
I want to understand it so thatI can get better at it.
Jay Johnson (17:09):
Love that and I swear you stole that right out
of my brain, or we're sharing abrain right now.
Delphia because that is exactlyone of the frames that I use
for teaching managers on how tohave conversations with their
teams is like this is what I saw.
This is how I'm interpreting it.
Help me understand what'sactually happening here.
So I love that.
(17:30):
The other one that we did useand I'd love to hear your
thoughts on it, just from aninclusive standpoint but one of
the things that my partner oftenuses and I really liked was how
can we show up for you in a waythat's meaningful and sort of
set that up to as a framework oftell us what is going to best
(17:52):
serve you as our audience member, as our person in this space?
What can we do to really engageyou?
And that actually produced areally fruitful conversation.
What are your thoughts on that?
Delphia Howze (18:05):
I think that is a phenomenal question, and again,
it demonstrates vulnerabilityand the desire to impactfully
engage with others.
It's so easy to walk into theroom as the knowledge expert,
right, as the leader, as the CEO, executive, whatever the case
may be, and people automaticallyperceive you as an all-knowing
(18:31):
entity, right?
Or someone who's who just knowsso much about you, know so many
things.
But demonstrating that againyou are you as the perceived
individual or the facilitator,whatever the case may be really
wants to know who they'reconnecting with and how to do
that effectively, based off ofwhat that person needs.
(18:53):
It's kind of like the goldenrule, right?
We treat others as we want tobe treated.
No, no, no, no, no.
We have to go platinum Treatothers as they want to be
treated.
That takes us so much further,and so I think that lends to
that making sure that others arebeing seen and valued in a way
that's necessary for them to besuccessful.
Jay Johnson (19:12):
Yeah, I love that.
You know, it's interestingbecause when you do put somebody
at the front of the room, thetarget of everybody's attention,
it does imply that there issome kind of like I am the
smartest person in a room, andI've seen trainers walk in and
feel that way and watch themabsolutely tank because of that
(19:33):
inability to kind of not stepback from their own ego or not
come in with that humility andthat humbleness to say, hey,
I've got a couple of things, butso do you, and let's have a
collaborative conversation aboutthis.
I want to dig into and I'mgoing to relate this back to
your book In the environmentthat we were in, one of the
(19:55):
things that we really tried todo was establish a framework for
kind of an inclusive cultureand an inclusive environment in
and throughout this trainingexperience, and what we
literally did was encouraged andempowered the audience to take
ownership over creating theconditions for inclusivity for
(20:16):
all and to remind them.
So now it wasn't just thetrainers, but it was also, you
know, the training team or theconference organizing team, but
now it was the 40 participantsas well that were sort of like
hey, you're on In doing that.
It was really interesting to seesome people who stepped up
above and beyond and some peoplethat were a little hesitant,
(20:39):
and that was okay and obviously,like I said, the outcome was
good.
How can we really encouragemaybe some of those people that
are either nervous to step intothe space?
Maybe that's not necessarilytheir comfort zone, maybe
they're not necessarily thinking, maybe they're more of an
individualistic and I'm notputting a value judgment on that
(21:00):
in any way, shape or form anindividualistic and I'm not
putting a value judgment on thatin any way, shape or form.
How can we help people to stepinto a space that may be a
little bit uncomfortable forthem in this type of an
environment?
Delphia Howze (21:10):
Yeah, that's a great question, I think.
So that is so dependent, sodependent on the individual.
So I think the first thing, onething that is very important,
is for us to recognize thatobviously everyone's going to
have a different way to stepinto something.
So we have to create multiplepoints of entry, and so if we,
if we only have one point ofentry that is designated by you
(21:34):
know, policy, practice,procedure, whatever the case may
be, we missed the mark.
But we've got to have multiplepoints of entry so that each and
every person that walks intothe opportunity to engage is
able to do it in a way that'scomfortable for them.
We don't know why people youknow hold initially.
(21:55):
Let's say that you walk into aroom full of 50 people, right.
Let's just say you know halfare going to be, yay, let's go
ready to do this, and thenyou'll have half who are
reserved, right.
And we don't know what, therationale or the reason behind
that reservation.
Could it be they're not buyingit?
(22:15):
Could it be they don'tunderstand it, they're not
comfortable with it?
You know, whatever the case maybe, so we have to create spaces
for each of those entities,each of those mindsets, to be
able to say OK, that's safe forme to be a part of, even with my
reservation of being anintrovert Right, even with my
(22:39):
reservation of not believing inthis mumbo jumbo initially.
You know, we have to do thatand it's not an easy thing to do
because we are on task.
We want to get the messageacross.
We, you know, want to hit homeuh, you know, with it with a
heavy, heavy hit.
Um, but the reality is, if wedon't, uh, step back and make
(23:01):
sure that there are differentways for many different people
with many different levels ofcomfort and points of
understanding to enter into it,we miss the mark completely.
Jay Johnson (23:13):
I absolutely love that and I do think it was
really interesting and inspiring.
To be perfectly honest, becauseyou know, by the time that we
had a day for and we were in thetrenches and these were like 13
to 15 hour days, this was afully immersive retreat for four
days, exhausting.
But I will say that by the timethat we hit, you know, by the
(23:35):
time that we hit, I feel likeeverybody had really stepped up
in a really meaningful andproductive and positive way and
I think the experience, not onlyfor the participant in this
case, but also for everybodyelse, was truly enriched and
just very meaningful.
On that regard, and I want togo into something else kind of
(23:58):
related to that is, you know,when we think about inclusion
and it's obviously much largerand we've used that.
I've used this example becauseI think it's number one, it was
relevant and fresh.
And number two, I think itreally kind of goes to one of
the extremes and in this case itwas a known area, but we never
(24:20):
always know what's going onbehind somebody's closed doors
or what's going on behind theirface.
So we don't know if we havesomebody in there that may have
some level of neurodivergence.
We may not know if somebody has, say, attention deficit
disorder, or if they have someother kind of, or even just
let's take it to the cultural,racial, socioeconomic, et cetera
(24:44):
.
All of those things affect thelenses and I will say this as me
, a white, heterosexual,normative trans, you know, trans
, regular, trans, normative male, it's a point of privilege,
those are my privileges anduntil I have some conversations
(25:04):
to get a better understanding,I'm not going to be able to
relate.
How do we relate?
How do we relate and createspace for some of those unknowns
, the burdens or traumas thatmaybe somebody is carrying, the
invisible neurodivergences thatare out there?
How do we create space as atrainer or a coach for those
(25:26):
when we can't see them or wedon't know that they're there?
Delphia Howze (25:30):
Yeah, that's a great question and I don't know
that I have a 100% answer, butI'm gonna give it my best shot.
I think that creating space forthose requires us to really
first look at ourselves.
Right?
I talk about all the time.
We have to shine the flashlighton ourselves first before we
can understand the world.
Johnnetta Cole actually saidsomething in one of her during a
(25:57):
conference.
Johnnetta B Cole, phenomenalwoman, conference.
Johnnetta B Cole, phenomenalwoman, and she said in order to
see the world, I need to haveyour lens right.
And so what that meant?
She can't, we cannot only seeit from one direction.
So how do we work our way intothat answer in your question?
(26:17):
I think we really need to lookat ourselves first and see how
we're accepting people andallowing them to, to your point,
to show up the way that theyneed to, so that we can find
that middle ground, and it's notan easy thing to do.
I don't believe that it isbecause you know I speaking for
(26:37):
myself, I'm, you know, I want mypoint to be heard, right?
You know, as a human you know,that's what, that's what we want
generally and it's a challengethat we have to put upon
ourselves to step back and allowothers to be authentically, who
be authentic and who they areand how they show up for us, and
(26:59):
accept that Not always easy forus and accept that Not always
easy.
Jay Johnson (27:03):
No, it's not.
And I like your answer becauseI mean, essentially it's still
that aspect of creating spaceand maybe even being adaptable
to when we learn new informationor when we find out that, hey,
that didn't land, how can weshift that to create the
conditions that it'll land thenext time or that we can help
(27:24):
catch up on something.
So I really like that answer,delphia.
You know, as I'm thinking aboutthis and I'm thinking about
this, you know the conversationon inclusion and one of the
things that I think isinteresting, right Like so
there's a lot of differentintersections out there.
We mentioned a couple of them,whether it's race, culture,
(27:45):
language, educational background, experience, so the inherent as
also the acquired diversitiesthat we all carry, and sometimes
it seems like there's sort ofbookends.
Right Like you may have somebodyin your training or
facilitation space that comesfrom a very upper class and, you
(28:06):
know, had a very privilegedlife, and in that same training
you could have somebody who youknow and I've had the
opportunity to work with anumber of populations inside of,
like the Detroit area and someof the Detroit public schools 20
years ago even so, where it waslike not even as up to speed as
it is now and having some ofthat.
(28:29):
You know where I'm working, withmaybe a debater from West
Bloomfield district, which isone of the most elevated, most
expensive areas in here, andhaving somebody from the Detroit
public schools who didn't havethose resources or anything else
in the same classroom publicschools who didn't have those
resources or anything else inthe same classroom.
Right, and being able toaccommodate both of those.
(28:51):
I know a lot of trainers maystruggle with.
How do I create the conditionsof creating a space where both
are going to thrive, both aregoing to excel and both are
going to be challenged to thelevel that they're at?
Do you have any thoughts orideas how we can do that?
Delphia Howze (29:04):
Yeah, we have to prepare.
You know, long before we enterinto that space, right, we have
to prepare to understand theaudience.
So, you know, doing research,you've learned to have a certain
patience to take time to learnand understand things Right.
And so taking time tounderstand who your audience is
(29:27):
Right.
If you, if we go into anyfacilitation or training or
learning experience with themindset that our audience is,
you know, on the right handspectrum and forget about the
left hand spectrum, Right, we'renever going to hit the mark.
But if we take the opportunitynot, I shouldn't say but and if
(29:49):
we take the opportunity to gomiddle of the road, you still
miss the mark and theopportunity to make sure that
both sides are coming in andconverging to that center.
So I really think that it'ssomething that I do a lot in my
facilitation and workshops isreally do some due diligence
ahead of time to really get somedemographic information from
(30:12):
the participants and ask somevery specific points of
information so that I canunderstand who's in the audience
.
So I don't make assumptionsthat someone is from a more what
is perceived to be a moreprivileged group based off of
resources, et cetera, or lessprivileged group.
(30:32):
It's very easy for me to dothat or for any individual to do
that, because we come at thingsagain from our own experience.
But if we take the time to dothe due diligence ahead of time,
that gives us room to navigateand shift as necessary to make
sure that we're meeting theneeds in an impactful way and
not going in with ourassumptions of what we believe
(30:57):
that a group of individuals hasor does not have.
A perfect example I'll sharewith you is I was doing years
ago when I was working incorporate.
I did a training facilitationsession in Alabama and it was
for an organization and it wasall white males, right.
(31:19):
And I went into this sessionwith my own baggage, thinking oh
well, you know, they all have acertain level of privilege,
right, A certain degree ofprivilege that kind of runs
throughout all of theconnectivities of the
individuals in that room.
But as I went through thesession, people began to share
(31:40):
experiences that they had andhow they actually ascended to
these leadership positions, andyou would be.
I was actually surprised tohear how what I thought was a
reality was not for more thanhalf of the individuals in that
session.
So we have to allow people thespace to learn more and and
(32:04):
essentially put our foot in ourmouth less.
Jay Johnson (32:35):
So I really really appreciate that I'm thinking
about you know, I'm thinkingabout us right, like as an
individual, and being in thereand being in that space.
How might we, how might wereset and and I know we've
talked about this a little bit,but we do want to hammer home
(32:57):
the point audience.
You heard it from Delphia learnin advance.
Learn in advance.
We talk about this all the timebut, um, you know, say we learn
, and then our learning maybewas skewed or maybe we miss
something or anything else likethat.
(33:18):
How, how was that experience inthat adaptation and really what
drove you to be able to shiftin sort of mid-flight?
Delphia Howze (33:28):
Yeah, I would say it was humbling right, because
I had my mind set to say X, yand Z right, and you know I'm
kind of like you, a little bitof a perfectionist, right, and
you know if I make a goal to sayX, y Z, I'm going to say X Y Z,
no matter what Right.
(33:50):
However, that humblingexperience really came to me and
this is the honest truth waswhen one of the individuals
shared an experience big burlyguy right that I had already put
a story and a label to in termsof privilege and his background
, et cetera, and how he hadascended to where he was.
Told a story that, or shared anexperience, I should say that,
(34:11):
really brought the group totears right.
Brought the group to tears inthe sense that, oh my gosh, we
would have never thought, and hehimself, big, burly guy, was in
tears about this experience.
And the experience was reallyabout how his daughter was, who
was in an interracialrelationship, was having
(34:33):
challenges in that relationshipand in the community for being
who and loving who she wanted toright.
And so that was the experiencethat really helped us to help me
to get away from the narrativethat I had created and really
helped others to be able toshare their experience as well,
(34:55):
that said, you know as well.
That said, I'm not who youthink I am.
Let me tell you who I am, letme give you that, that, that
view, put on these glasses sothat you can really see who I am
.
And now we can work andinteract with one another a
little more effectively.
And, as a result, again I washumbled and I was able.
(35:16):
I had, I had to shift.
I had no choice, sure, but toshift, and that so worked out
well, but that was, that was anemotional experience.
Jay Johnson (35:29):
Now and that's a.
That's a great example and youknow it's unfortunate for what
his daughter is experiencing.
But, wow, the courage of beingable to bring that out in,
probably amongst a group thenmaybe that was a really, really
scary thing to do and for yourability to adapt and shift.
That's really powerful, delphia, thank you.
So we're near the end of ourtime and I want to say thank you
(35:55):
because this has been anincredible conversation and full
of really great insights forour audience.
Delphia, if the audience wantedto get in touch with you, how
might they be able to connectwith you?
Delphia Howze (36:05):
Absolutely.
They can find me on LinkedIn,right?
I think I'm the only DelphiaHowes in the world, so you could
just type my name in.
You can also find me atdhowesolutionscom.
That is my website and you canreach me via.
You can find my book on Amazonand my contact information is in
(36:27):
there as well.
Jay Johnson (36:28):
And that book title is Including you Leading
Inclusion from when you Are, andthe audio version is going to
be coming out soon.
Did you read it or is somebodyelse?
Delphia Howze (36:39):
No, I didn't Someone else read it, but I did
great auditions and the personthat I selected she's phenomenal
and really comes with energyand enthusiasm and really shared
the perspective that I wantedto be shared in the book.
Jay Johnson (36:56):
That's amazing and I will tell you I would probably
do the same, because I'd belike I would be trying to change
my words as I was reading it orgo into a story Like I don't
know that.
I couldn't.
I couldn't maintain the focus,so that's amazing.
Delphia, again I want to saythank you so much for what you
have brought to this space andfor the work that you're doing
(37:17):
and continue to do and, justhonestly, from a truly, truly
appreciative standpoint, thankyou on behalf of myself and the
audience that's going to belistening to this.
Delphia Howze (37:28):
Wonderful.
I appreciate the opportunity tobe here.
Thank you so very much.
Jay Johnson (37:33):
And thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge,where we are shaping the future
of training and development.
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where we are shaping the futureof training and development.
I'm very excited to welcome aspecial guest today, Delphia
Howze.
Welcome to the show, Delphia.
Delphia Howze (00:12):
Thank you so very much.
Happy to be here.
Jay Johnson (00:14):
So you've got an incredible history and some
really interesting things goingon, and I'd love for the
audience to be up to speed.
Tell us, Delphia, how did youget into this space and what are
you working on right now?
Delphia Howze (00:27):
Yes, so I got into this space by happenstance.
So I was, you know, when I wasin college and all growing up I
wanted to be a high poweredattorney taking on taking the
world by storm.
But once I got to law school Irealized that that might not be
the best option.
I went, I started my career inthe field of banking, really had
(00:47):
the opportunity to understandhow to work with people, how to
navigate things.
So I ascended the ladder prettyrapidly as an officer within
the bank, led teams, led HRteams within the banking
industry, loved it so much,especially loved the training
(01:07):
aspect of it.
But recognized that there was achallenge in the sense that we
were not.
A lot of the branches under mypurview were not connecting with
the community in the mostimpactful way, for you know
bottom line and ROI.
So I started to do someresearch and recognize that the
reality was a lot of ourbranches were in urban settings
(01:29):
and the individuals who wereleading the branches, my
managers, were not familiar withthat type of environment.
They were coming from adifferent type of environment
that created a little bit of adisconnect.
Did some further research?
Realized that we had theopportunity, barked up a couple
of trees with our presidents andeventually our president said
(01:52):
Delphi, if it's that importantto you, do something about it.
And that's kind of the worstthing that you can ever say to
me, because I can go down a pathand just get going.
But it worked out very well.
I started the first diversityprogram there and kind of just
continued to really focus.
(02:13):
And at the time you know I hateto say how old I am, but you
know at the time it wasn't ahuge focus, but there was a
realization for an opportunityto do something different.
And that's where I got my startin the field of focusing on how
do we bridge the gaps of peopleconnecting so that individuals
can be their best selves and sothat organizations can be
(02:35):
successful.
Jay Johnson (02:37):
That's incredible, delphia, and there's so many
things that really resonated.
Number one is I swear, the morepeople I talk to on this show
and anywhere else thataccidentally got into this, I'm
really starting to believe thattraining, talent development and
HR is a calling.
It's less of a choice.
(02:58):
I don't think anybody's likeyou know what I want to grow up
and be a trainer but then all ofa sudden the people just kind
of find their way to thisbecause I am in the same boat
and so many of our other guestshave been as well.
So I found that really funny.
And I'm in the same boat withyou, as I started off thinking
I'm going to go be a highpowered lawyer, and then I got
an internship while I was incollege and I sat at a copy
(03:23):
machine for eight and a halfhours and I'm like I am not
going to be a lawyer.
So I found that really funny.
Now, one of the things I knowthat you've been working on is
your book Leading Inclusion Fromwhen you Are.
So including you leadinginclusion where you are.
I want to talk about thatbecause I think inclusion is one
(03:46):
of those areas that we all tryto strive to get there, but then
, when the rubber meets the road, we sometimes fall a little bit
short.
I'm going to give you anexample of this, but first let's
talk about your book.
Give us an overview of this,and I know it's available on
Amazon and you're releasing theaudible version of it right now.
(04:08):
So tell us a little bit aboutit.
Delphia Howze (04:10):
Yes, absolutely so, including you, leading
inclusion from where you are.
I chose that topic specificallybecause I wanted to make sure
that people realize that thisinvolves everyone.
Whether we want it to touch usor not, it is going to touch us
Right, because the reality isevery single one of us, as
humans, have experienced afeeling or an experience, have
(04:33):
had an experience of exclusionRight, whether it was back in
kindergarten, whether it waslast month, whether it was when
we first started our firstposition.
But exclusion is a reality andit does not feel good and so and
it doesn't bring out the bestin people.
So my baseline thought is whywould we want that to be in our
(04:55):
environments, and particularlyin our work environments?
We want to precipitate the best.
We want people to be the best.
We want to have the best outputand productivity.
So, therefore, we have tocreate and ensure that we have
inclusive environments whereeveryone can thrive, and that
responsibility does not simplyreside with leadership or with
(05:15):
HR.
Every single person within theorganization can do small things
to help to ensure that theenvironment is inclusive and
that that is sustainable,because, really, when it gets
down to it, we're dealing withpeople, and when you deal with
people.
We know that there's a lot ofnuances and challenges in doing
so, simply because we're allcoming at everything from our
(05:37):
own perspectives.
But taking the time tointentionally focus on inclusion
, we create this wonderfulalchemy of opportunity to ensure
that people can be their best.
Jay Johnson (05:52):
I really love how you've framed that as from where
you are right, because at theend of the day, we do often kind
of rely on either leadership ororganizational culture, like,
oh well, we have an inclusiveculture, but it sort of takes a
little of that personalresponsibility that we have as
individuals for creating thatenvironment.
(06:13):
Now I'm going to ask a coupleof things here, because our
trainers, our coaches, our HRpeople, you know, when we think
about designing for an inclusiveenvironment or setting up a
training or a learningopportunity for an inclusive
environment, what are some ofthe things that maybe we should
be thinking about in thatinitial design phase, because
(06:37):
it's really the work that we putin before that makes the
experience smooth, not only forus but for their participants.
So what should we be thinkingabout like from get go day one,
the starting line?
Delphia Howze (06:50):
Yes, I think that's a great question when I
think about beginning orinitiating a training program.
We know that the ADDIE modelright A-D-D-I-E right.
So assessing and reallyunderstanding, through that
assessment, who is involved andwho are you talking to?
Many people will say, well,we're assessing and really
focusing on this demographicgroup or in this group of people
(07:11):
or in this specific team.
But the reality is, when we'retalking about inclusion, it is
each and every one of thoseright, and not only each and
every one of those, but it's theindividuals within each and so
when you think about designingany type of program, in my
opinion it is very critical,it's absolutely necessary to
(07:32):
understand that who you'respeaking to and who you're
designing the module for issomething that can touch every
single person because it growslegs.
And when you think aboutparticularly designing programs
and strategies around inclusion,some organizations are still,
you know, working through DEI,some are working through just DI
(07:54):
, some are just working throughI.
But when you think about that,the reality is you have to get
to the core human-centricintegrity, recognizing that,
through that assessment phase,that should be the area of focus
or one of the corehuman-centric integrity,
recognizing that, through thatassessment phase, that should be
the area of focus or one of thecore areas of focus, before you
get to the DDIE.
Jay Johnson (08:13):
Love that, and we've talked a little bit about
Addy on the show in severaldifferent episodes.
So, audience, if you need arefresher on Addy, go back and
check out any of those, becauseit is a powerful, powerful model
and the way that we look atassessment in the beginning can
really determine the evaluativeoutcomes that we have at the end
(08:34):
, and it's an essential aspect.
So we always talk about gettinga return on investment for our
training and being strategicwith it.
So this is a great model to doso, delphia, I'm going to dig a
little bit deeper and I'm goingto share a moment of
vulnerability here.
You know, recently we hadconducted a leadership retreat.
It's very deep, immersiveretreat and one of our
(08:56):
participants was a person who isblind and that really shifted
the dynamic of us thinking abouthow do we do some of these
exercises.
Because, again, some of it wasout outdoor training, team
building.
You know, go build a tower andsome of the stuff was even like
very advanced models put onto ascreen.
(09:18):
So, you know, the training teamin the assessment and in the
design phase really kind of satback and had a conversation
about how can we make sure thatthis is a great experience, how
can we empower the participantsto engage, which they did, and I
think at the end of the day, wewere successful in creating an
inclusive environment.
That was very, very meaningful.
(09:39):
But that is not to say thatthere was not several times in
the middle of a four dayfacilitation that I had to be
caught.
You know, the training team wasgreat.
We would remind each other hey,don't forget, describe what you
see on the screen, don't forget, give this as a direction,
don't forget, get somebody to.
You know, work with this personso that they can write their
(10:01):
letter, et cetera.
And the participant wasexceptional.
I mean, it was not hindered atall, fully engaged, absolutely
loved it.
So, like I said, outcome great.
But I felt guilty.
There was points and times,because I have been in the DEI
space in some capacity, whetherit was in the university 20
years ago, whether it's beenteaching inclusive principles
(10:24):
and practices for healthcare, etcetera.
I felt really guilty becausethere was definitely points in
times that I was eitherdistracted I had a thousand
priorities running because I wasone of the head trainers.
So I'm trying to manage all thelogistics with the organizing
team and I had to reset thelogistics with the organizing
(10:46):
team and I had to reset.
How might, and we're human and Iknow that, and I even
acknowledged it and said, hey, Iwant to point this out, that
this is really important, butit's something that I failed at
in this last module.
I want to bring that to thesurface and I want to say I'm
sorry and I'm going to do betterin this next one.
So I took ownership for it.
But how can we kind of reset orhow can we keep that top of
(11:08):
mind when, as a trainer or acoach, we have so many different
things that are coming at usand so many different aspects?
What do you do to really kindof make sure that we're always
thinking in an inclusive mindset, that it's not something that
we're switching on and off orthat we're always thinking in an
inclusive mindset, that it'snot something that we're
switching on and off or thatwe're staying true to?
(11:29):
During this session Does thatmake sense?
Delphia Howze (11:31):
Absolutely yes, and I think that we all fall
into that trap, guess what?
Because we're human, right.
And so because we're human, weare fallible.
We do have, you know, points ofvulnerability, and I think that
I love that you said resetright.
So I think the first thing isto recognize that we have as a
trainer right.
I was a trainer for severalyears as well and love it and
(11:54):
still do it when I go tospeaking engagements in
different events.
I think it is important torecognize that the first thing
when we step into an arena I'mjust going to say right into
that space, we have to bevulnerable.
The biggest challenge forfacilitators, I believe, or one
of them, is walking into anenvironment.
(12:16):
Thinking that you knoweverything and that you're going
to be able to do everythingwill fail every time.
Jay Johnson (12:22):
Right.
Delphia Howze (12:23):
So we, we have to be recognized that
vulnerability and sit in it andbe okay with it and be okay with
asking for that raise right.
Yes, we're here to facilitatethis module and to make sure
that we're meeting the needs ofour audience.
At the same time, we have a setof experiences that are, or are
(12:44):
not, part of what we'rebringing into this room.
So I think it's a double Idon't want to say double-edged
sword.
I think it's give and take,right.
You said the attendee was, youknow, supportive and great about
the process.
But I think that that issomething that we have to help
people to recognize, accept thatvulnerability that we're
(13:26):
bringing and that we're going tomess up sometimes, you know, it
may look like we're not goingto, but we will and, at the same
time, recognizing, from thefacilitator standpoint, that
walking in there, you have todemonstrate that and be prepared
for it.
So, you know, as our brainsdevelop and accept different
types of experiences,neuroplasticity right,
(13:49):
neuroplasticity helps us toresonate more quickly to
different types of environmentsbecause of the experiential
purview that we have ongoing.
But the reality is we have togive ourselves time to be able
to have those experiences, toget better at them, and so it's
again.
It's a two-way street wherepeople on both sides of the
(14:12):
street have to recognize thatvulnerability and grace are the
key.
Jay Johnson (14:17):
I love that and it really you're spot on.
It's funny.
It's like you're in a roombecause I mean, that's exactly
what it was, is like, hey, youknow, we're doing our best here
and you're doing your best hereand we're going to collaborate
to create the best possibleenvironment, and that's exactly
what happens.
So I mean that was that wastruly nice, because one of the
(14:37):
things that I can be is a littlebit of a perfectionist.
So when I do have those momentsand that reset was really
something of saying, ok, I can'tget into my own headspace on
this, I can't let that happen.
So let's address it, manage itand move on and really kind of
make sure that we're bringingour best into that next section,
(14:58):
our best into that next section.
You know, when we're looking atengaging and maybe having that
conversation up front, I think alot of people are afraid to
have that conversation, to maybehave a conversation with an
attendee with a different set ofskills or abilities or anything
else.
How would you suggest maybeopening up that conversation in
(15:21):
a functional and inclusive way,where it's, you know, it's full
of dignity, it's full of respect, it's full of, like curiosity
even?
What are your thoughts on that,delphia?
Delphia Howze (15:31):
That's a fantastic question.
I really think that, um again,resting on the, the, the, the
roots of vulnerability myfavorite question and you I'm
sure you've asked this manytimes and others have as well,
but it serves such a greatpurpose and I'll speak to the
purpose in a moment.
But the question is help me tounderstand right.
(15:53):
It's as simple as that.
If you enter a situation or aninteraction with another
individual that you're lookingto help, support, work with,
whatever the case may be,knowing that you don't have that
same experience as thatindividual and that you will
(16:14):
likely never have the sameexperience as that other
individual, the simple questionof help me to understand X, y, z
, whatever it is, opens the doorin a way that doesn't point
fingers, that's not accusatory,that's not judgmental, but gives
demonstration to yourvulnerability as an individual
(16:34):
and your desire to see into theother person.
So I use that question and Iprobably say it at least once a
day, simply because in differentsituations it really well, not
in different, in all situationsit has helped me to demonstrate
(16:55):
to people that I care about themand that I really want to know
and I'm not doing this workperformatively and I'm not doing
it just to check a box and moveon.
I want to understand it so thatI can get better at it.
Jay Johnson (17:09):
Love that and I swear you stole that right out
of my brain, or we're sharing abrain right now.
Delphia because that is exactlyone of the frames that I use
for teaching managers on how tohave conversations with their
teams is like this is what I saw.
This is how I'm interpreting it.
Help me understand what'sactually happening here.
So I love that.
(17:30):
The other one that we did useand I'd love to hear your
thoughts on it, just from aninclusive standpoint but one of
the things that my partner oftenuses and I really liked was how
can we show up for you in a waythat's meaningful and sort of
set that up to as a framework oftell us what is going to best
(17:52):
serve you as our audience member, as our person in this space?
What can we do to really engageyou?
And that actually produced areally fruitful conversation.
What are your thoughts on that?
Delphia Howze (18:05):
I think that is a phenomenal question, and again,
it demonstrates vulnerabilityand the desire to impactfully
engage with others.
It's so easy to walk into theroom as the knowledge expert,
right, as the leader, as the CEO, executive, whatever the case
may be, and people automaticallyperceive you as an all-knowing
(18:31):
entity, right?
Or someone who's who just knowsso much about you, know so many
things.
But demonstrating that againyou are you as the perceived
individual or the facilitator,whatever the case may be really
wants to know who they'reconnecting with and how to do
that effectively, based off ofwhat that person needs.
(18:53):
It's kind of like the goldenrule, right?
We treat others as we want tobe treated.
No, no, no, no, no.
We have to go platinum Treatothers as they want to be
treated.
That takes us so much further,and so I think that lends to
that making sure that others arebeing seen and valued in a way
that's necessary for them to besuccessful.
Jay Johnson (19:12):
Yeah, I love that.
You know, it's interestingbecause when you do put somebody
at the front of the room, thetarget of everybody's attention,
it does imply that there issome kind of like I am the
smartest person in a room, andI've seen trainers walk in and
feel that way and watch themabsolutely tank because of that
(19:33):
inability to kind of not stepback from their own ego or not
come in with that humility andthat humbleness to say, hey,
I've got a couple of things, butso do you, and let's have a
collaborative conversation aboutthis.
I want to dig into and I'mgoing to relate this back to
your book In the environmentthat we were in, one of the
(19:55):
things that we really tried todo was establish a framework for
kind of an inclusive cultureand an inclusive environment in
and throughout this trainingexperience, and what we
literally did was encouraged andempowered the audience to take
ownership over creating theconditions for inclusivity for
(20:16):
all and to remind them.
So now it wasn't just thetrainers, but it was also, you
know, the training team or theconference organizing team, but
now it was the 40 participantsas well that were sort of like
hey, you're on In doing that.
It was really interesting to seesome people who stepped up
above and beyond and some peoplethat were a little hesitant,
(20:39):
and that was okay and obviously,like I said, the outcome was
good.
How can we really encouragemaybe some of those people that
are either nervous to step intothe space?
Maybe that's not necessarilytheir comfort zone, maybe
they're not necessarily thinking, maybe they're more of an
individualistic and I'm notputting a value judgment on that
(21:00):
in any way, shape or form anindividualistic and I'm not
putting a value judgment on thatin any way, shape or form.
How can we help people to stepinto a space that may be a
little bit uncomfortable forthem in this type of an
environment?
Delphia Howze (21:10):
Yeah, that's a great question, I think.
So that is so dependent, sodependent on the individual.
So I think the first thing, onething that is very important,
is for us to recognize thatobviously everyone's going to
have a different way to stepinto something.
So we have to create multiplepoints of entry, and so if we,
if we only have one point ofentry that is designated by you
(21:34):
know, policy, practice,procedure, whatever the case may
be, we missed the mark.
But we've got to have multiplepoints of entry so that each and
every person that walks intothe opportunity to engage is
able to do it in a way that'scomfortable for them.
We don't know why people youknow hold initially.
(21:55):
Let's say that you walk into aroom full of 50 people, right.
Let's just say you know halfare going to be, yay, let's go
ready to do this, and thenyou'll have half who are
reserved, right.
And we don't know what, therationale or the reason behind
that reservation.
Could it be they're not buyingit?
(22:15):
Could it be they don'tunderstand it, they're not
comfortable with it?
You know, whatever the case maybe, so we have to create spaces
for each of those entities,each of those mindsets, to be
able to say OK, that's safe forme to be a part of, even with my
reservation of being anintrovert Right, even with my
(22:39):
reservation of not believing inthis mumbo jumbo initially.
You know, we have to do thatand it's not an easy thing to do
because we are on task.
We want to get the messageacross.
We, you know, want to hit homeuh, you know, with it with a
heavy, heavy hit.
Um, but the reality is, if wedon't, uh, step back and make
(23:01):
sure that there are differentways for many different people
with many different levels ofcomfort and points of
understanding to enter into it,we miss the mark completely.
Jay Johnson (23:13):
I absolutely love that and I do think it was
really interesting and inspiring.
To be perfectly honest, becauseyou know, by the time that we
had a day for and we were in thetrenches and these were like 13
to 15 hour days, this was afully immersive retreat for four
days, exhausting.
But I will say that by the timethat we hit, you know, by the
(23:35):
time that we hit, I feel likeeverybody had really stepped up
in a really meaningful andproductive and positive way and
I think the experience, not onlyfor the participant in this
case, but also for everybodyelse, was truly enriched and
just very meaningful.
On that regard, and I want togo into something else kind of
(23:58):
related to that is, you know,when we think about inclusion
and it's obviously much largerand we've used that.
I've used this example becauseI think it's number one, it was
relevant and fresh.
And number two, I think itreally kind of goes to one of
the extremes and in this case itwas a known area, but we never
(24:20):
always know what's going onbehind somebody's closed doors
or what's going on behind theirface.
So we don't know if we havesomebody in there that may have
some level of neurodivergence.
We may not know if somebody has, say, attention deficit
disorder, or if they have someother kind of, or even just
let's take it to the cultural,racial, socioeconomic, et cetera
(24:44):
.
All of those things affect thelenses and I will say this as me
, a white, heterosexual,normative trans, you know, trans
, regular, trans, normative male, it's a point of privilege,
those are my privileges anduntil I have some conversations
(25:04):
to get a better understanding,I'm not going to be able to
relate.
How do we relate?
How do we relate and createspace for some of those unknowns
, the burdens or traumas thatmaybe somebody is carrying, the
invisible neurodivergences thatare out there?
How do we create space as atrainer or a coach for those
(25:26):
when we can't see them or wedon't know that they're there?
Delphia Howze (25:30):
Yeah, that's a great question and I don't know
that I have a 100% answer, butI'm gonna give it my best shot.
I think that creating space forthose requires us to really
first look at ourselves.
Right?
I talk about all the time.
We have to shine the flashlighton ourselves first before we
can understand the world.
Johnnetta Cole actually saidsomething in one of her during a
(25:57):
conference.
Johnnetta B Cole, phenomenalwoman, conference.
Johnnetta B Cole, phenomenalwoman, and she said in order to
see the world, I need to haveyour lens right.
And so what that meant?
She can't, we cannot only seeit from one direction.
So how do we work our way intothat answer in your question?
(26:17):
I think we really need to lookat ourselves first and see how
we're accepting people andallowing them to, to your point,
to show up the way that theyneed to, so that we can find
that middle ground, and it's notan easy thing to do.
I don't believe that it isbecause you know I speaking for
(26:37):
myself, I'm, you know, I want mypoint to be heard, right?
You know, as a human you know,that's what, that's what we want
generally and it's a challengethat we have to put upon
ourselves to step back and allowothers to be authentically, who
be authentic and who they areand how they show up for us, and
(26:59):
accept that Not always easy forus and accept that Not always
easy.
Jay Johnson (27:03):
No, it's not.
And I like your answer becauseI mean, essentially it's still
that aspect of creating spaceand maybe even being adaptable
to when we learn new informationor when we find out that, hey,
that didn't land, how can weshift that to create the
conditions that it'll land thenext time or that we can help
(27:24):
catch up on something.
So I really like that answer,delphia.
You know, as I'm thinking aboutthis and I'm thinking about
this, you know the conversationon inclusion and one of the
things that I think isinteresting, right Like so
there's a lot of differentintersections out there.
We mentioned a couple of them,whether it's race, culture,
(27:45):
language, educational background, experience, so the inherent as
also the acquired diversitiesthat we all carry, and sometimes
it seems like there's sort ofbookends.
Right Like you may have somebodyin your training or
facilitation space that comesfrom a very upper class and, you
(28:06):
know, had a very privilegedlife, and in that same training
you could have somebody who youknow and I've had the
opportunity to work with anumber of populations inside of,
like the Detroit area and someof the Detroit public schools 20
years ago even so, where it waslike not even as up to speed as
it is now and having some ofthat.
(28:29):
You know where I'm working, withmaybe a debater from West
Bloomfield district, which isone of the most elevated, most
expensive areas in here, andhaving somebody from the Detroit
public schools who didn't havethose resources or anything else
in the same classroom publicschools who didn't have those
resources or anything else inthe same classroom.
Right, and being able toaccommodate both of those.
(28:51):
I know a lot of trainers maystruggle with.
How do I create the conditionsof creating a space where both
are going to thrive, both aregoing to excel and both are
going to be challenged to thelevel that they're at?
Do you have any thoughts orideas how we can do that?
Delphia Howze (29:04):
Yeah, we have to prepare.
You know, long before we enterinto that space, right, we have
to prepare to understand theaudience.
So, you know, doing research,you've learned to have a certain
patience to take time to learnand understand things Right.
And so taking time tounderstand who your audience is
(29:27):
Right.
If you, if we go into anyfacilitation or training or
learning experience with themindset that our audience is,
you know, on the right handspectrum and forget about the
left hand spectrum, Right, we'renever going to hit the mark.
But if we take the opportunitynot, I shouldn't say but and if
(29:49):
we take the opportunity to gomiddle of the road, you still
miss the mark and theopportunity to make sure that
both sides are coming in andconverging to that center.
So I really think that it'ssomething that I do a lot in my
facilitation and workshops isreally do some due diligence
ahead of time to really get somedemographic information from
(30:12):
the participants and ask somevery specific points of
information so that I canunderstand who's in the audience
.
So I don't make assumptionsthat someone is from a more what
is perceived to be a moreprivileged group based off of
resources, et cetera, or lessprivileged group.
(30:32):
It's very easy for me to dothat or for any individual to do
that, because we come at thingsagain from our own experience.
But if we take the time to dothe due diligence ahead of time,
that gives us room to navigateand shift as necessary to make
sure that we're meeting theneeds in an impactful way and
not going in with ourassumptions of what we believe
(30:57):
that a group of individuals hasor does not have.
A perfect example I'll sharewith you is I was doing years
ago when I was working incorporate.
I did a training facilitationsession in Alabama and it was
for an organization and it wasall white males, right.
(31:19):
And I went into this sessionwith my own baggage, thinking oh
well, you know, they all have acertain level of privilege,
right, A certain degree ofprivilege that kind of runs
throughout all of theconnectivities of the
individuals in that room.
But as I went through thesession, people began to share
(31:40):
experiences that they had andhow they actually ascended to
these leadership positions, andyou would be.
I was actually surprised tohear how what I thought was a
reality was not for more thanhalf of the individuals in that
session.
So we have to allow people thespace to learn more and and
(32:04):
essentially put our foot in ourmouth less.
Jay Johnson (32:35):
So I really really appreciate that I'm thinking
about you know, I'm thinkingabout us right, like as an
individual, and being in thereand being in that space.
How might we, how might wereset and and I know we've
talked about this a little bit,but we do want to hammer home
(32:57):
the point audience.
You heard it from Delphia learnin advance.
Learn in advance.
We talk about this all the timebut, um, you know, say we learn
, and then our learning maybewas skewed or maybe we miss
something or anything else likethat.
(33:18):
How, how was that experience inthat adaptation and really what
drove you to be able to shiftin sort of mid-flight?
Delphia Howze (33:28):
Yeah, I would say it was humbling right, because
I had my mind set to say X, yand Z right, and you know I'm
kind of like you, a little bitof a perfectionist, right, and
you know if I make a goal to sayX, y Z, I'm going to say X Y Z,
no matter what Right.
(33:50):
However, that humblingexperience really came to me and
this is the honest truth waswhen one of the individuals
shared an experience big burlyguy right that I had already put
a story and a label to in termsof privilege and his background
, et cetera, and how he hadascended to where he was.
Told a story that, or shared anexperience, I should say that,
(34:11):
really brought the group totears right.
Brought the group to tears inthe sense that, oh my gosh, we
would have never thought, and hehimself, big, burly guy, was in
tears about this experience.
And the experience was reallyabout how his daughter was, who
was in an interracialrelationship, was having
(34:33):
challenges in that relationshipand in the community for being
who and loving who she wanted toright.
And so that was the experiencethat really helped us to help me
to get away from the narrativethat I had created and really
helped others to be able toshare their experience as well,
(34:55):
that said, you know as well.
That said, I'm not who youthink I am.
Let me tell you who I am, letme give you that, that, that
view, put on these glasses sothat you can really see who I am
.
And now we can work andinteract with one another a
little more effectively.
And, as a result, again I washumbled and I was able.
(35:16):
I had, I had to shift.
I had no choice, sure, but toshift, and that so worked out
well, but that was, that was anemotional experience.
Jay Johnson (35:29):
Now and that's a.
That's a great example and youknow it's unfortunate for what
his daughter is experiencing.
But, wow, the courage of beingable to bring that out in,
probably amongst a group thenmaybe that was a really, really
scary thing to do and for yourability to adapt and shift.
That's really powerful, delphia, thank you.
So we're near the end of ourtime and I want to say thank you
(35:55):
because this has been anincredible conversation and full
of really great insights forour audience.
Delphia, if the audience wantedto get in touch with you, how
might they be able to connectwith you?
Delphia Howze (36:05):
Absolutely.
They can find me on LinkedIn,right?
I think I'm the only DelphiaHowes in the world, so you could
just type my name in.
You can also find me atdhowesolutionscom.
That is my website and you canreach me via.
You can find my book on Amazonand my contact information is in
(36:27):
there as well.
Jay Johnson (36:28):
And that book title is Including you Leading
Inclusion from when you Are, andthe audio version is going to
be coming out soon.
Did you read it or is somebodyelse?
Delphia Howze (36:39):
No, I didn't Someone else read it, but I did
great auditions and the personthat I selected she's phenomenal
and really comes with energyand enthusiasm and really shared
the perspective that I wantedto be shared in the book.
Jay Johnson (36:56):
That's amazing and I will tell you I would probably
do the same, because I'd belike I would be trying to change
my words as I was reading it orgo into a story Like I don't
know that.
I couldn't.
I couldn't maintain the focus,so that's amazing.
Delphia, again I want to saythank you so much for what you
have brought to this space andfor the work that you're doing
(37:17):
and continue to do and, justhonestly, from a truly, truly
appreciative standpoint, thankyou on behalf of myself and the
audience that's going to belistening to this.
Delphia Howze (37:28):
Wonderful.
I appreciate the opportunity tobe here.
Thank you so very much.
Jay Johnson (37:33):
And thank you, audience, for tuning into this
episode of the Talent Forge,where we are shaping the future
of training and development.
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