May 23, 2025 • 28 mins
Nikky Billou takes us on an extraordinary journey from post-revolution Iran to becoming a champion for freedom and human potential. As a Christian immigrant fleeing religious persecution, Nikky's early experiences shaped his profound understanding that freedom isn't just political—it's the essential foundation for entrepreneurship, creativity, and human flourishing.
Drawing wisdom from his late father's example, Nikky shares the transformative lesson that became his life's mission: "Your job is to see greatness in people and show it to them." This philosophy has guided him through writing ten books (including two New York Times bestsellers), hosting hundreds of podcast episodes, and helping dozens of entrepreneurs become millionaires.
For talent development professionals, Nikky offers invaluable insights on fostering coachability, identifying committed clients, and creating transformative results. Through powerful client success stories—from helping a specialist secure over a million dollars in 32 days to enabling a burned-out executive to earn more while working half the hours—he demonstrates how clear goals, obsessive focus, and expert guidance create extraordinary outcomes.
Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jay Johnson (00:01):
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where we are shaping the futureof talent development.
I'm joined by special guestNikki Bilou.
Welcome to the show, nikki.
Nicky Billou (00:10):
Jay, an honor to be here.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Jay Johnson (00:13):
Amazing Nikki.
Why don't you tell our audiencea little bit about yourself and
sort of how you got into thistalent development space?
Nicky Billou (00:22):
I'm originally an immigrant from the Middle East.
I'm a Christian from Iran.
When I was 11 years old, theIslamic revolution took place in
Iran.
It was a cataclysmic,world-changing event and it
absolutely upended my world.
My late father, god rest hissoul.
He could see the writing on thewall this wasn't going to be a
place to raise a Christianfamily.
(00:42):
So he and my mom got together,they made a plan and eventually
they got my brothers and I outof Iran and into where I live
now in Toronto, canada.
So it took almost five yearsfour years, excuse me for that
to happen Now.
At the time, man, I was a kid.
I didn't want to leave my home.
I didn't want to leave myfriends.
But you know in retrospect,brother, it was the single
greatest thing mom and dad couldhave done for me and my two
(01:04):
brothers.
They took us from a legacy oftyranny to a legacy of freedom.
I believe inside every humanbreast beats the living heart of
freedom.
Every man, every woman on thisplanet wants to chart their own
course, march to the tune oftheir own drummer and if you
think about it, if you're anentrepreneur, freedom is the
bedrock of what lets you existWithout freedom freedom of
(01:28):
thought, freedom of expression.
You can't come up with theideas to create your beautiful
vision.
Without free enterprise.
You're living in a crony state,which means you can't go and
make what you want to havehappen happen.
Every single one of us needs toappreciate and love freedom.
That's super, super, superimportant.
So I became this big advocateand champion for freedom my
(01:48):
father.
He was the same way.
If you met my dad, jay, you'dlove him.
You know, if you were lookingfor work, dad would sit you down
in his office.
He'd call all his entrepreneurbuddies till one of them gave
you a job.
If you were looking to start abusiness, he'd sit you down in
his office.
He'd help you think it through.
He'd help you get access tocapital clients, you name it
even if you were going tocompete with him, because he
didn't really believe incompetition anyways.
(02:10):
And if you were trying to buy acar or a house and you were his
friend and the bank wouldn'tgive you quite enough money,
he'd top you up with a loan thathe'd never let you pay back.
Now you might think to yourselfNicky, hold on, who does that?
And I'll tell you the lategreat Napoleon Ballou for one,
and you might think well, whywould he do that?
(02:32):
Well, first of all, he was adevout and committed Christian.
He believed that he'd beenblessed by God and his Lord and
Savior, jesus Christ, and it washis duty as a Christian to
share those blessings with hisfellow man and woman.
But secondly, bro, he did itbecause he could.
He was rich man.
I wanted to be like dad.
I wanted people to come to me,I wanted to be somebody who
(02:53):
helped people.
And growing up, dad would tellme all the time son, life is
about people, not money.
Business, son, is about people,not money.
I'm like, hold up, dad.
I got the life part BusinessWithout money you can't do
business, he said.
That's true, son, but withoutpeople there's no need for money
to do business.
All business is is solvingproblems for people, and then
(03:16):
you make a profit.
That's the purpose of business.
And then he said remember everyman standing in front of you.
That's someone's son, that'ssomeone's brother, that's
someone's husband, that'ssomeone's father, that's a hero
to somebody.
Maybe they've been burned bysomebody, just like you.
It's your job to restore theirfaith in humanity.
And you got to also rememberthat, that individual in front
(03:37):
of you.
They have hopes, they havedreams.
Maybe they've stopped believingin them, but they have them.
And your job, your number onejob, with everybody that comes
across your path, is to seetheir greatness and show it to
them.
Your job is to believe inpeople, because everybody needs
(03:58):
someone to believe in them.
You need that, I need that,everybody needs that.
And you know what I've done?
A lot of things.
I've written, published 10books, two New York Times
bestsellers.
I've got two podcasts closingin on you know 730, 40 episodes
between the two of them that wepublish.
I've been on over 600 shows.
I've helped over a dozen peoplebecome millionaires and
(04:19):
multimillionaires and I'vehelped another 80, 90 people add
between a hundred000 to$700,000 to their annual income.
And all those things areawesome.
But the thing that I'm mostproud of is I'm my father's son
and I believe in people.
Jay Johnson (04:34):
Such a powerful story Nicky, thank you for
giving us that and I think abouteven something like the concept
of freedom.
One of the things that we oftensee in the talent development
space, for example, is we're anemployee, we're sitting in an
organization and all of a suddenwe are handed down here's a
training, you need to go do thistraining and there's really not
(04:54):
that much decision making fromthat employee.
That's going to be aparticipant and, honestly, it is
a little bit of a lack offreedom.
So let me ask you you know howimportant is it?
Or how do you manage asituation where maybe somebody
is in one of the training orsome kind of a talk or something
like that that maybe theydidn't have agency to sign up
(05:16):
for or they didn't have a choicein the matter?
How do you manage that type ofa participant?
Nicky Billou (05:23):
Look, if someone doesn't want to be there, I just
tell them, and whoever sentthem there, they don't need to
be here.
This is a place for you.
If you want to be here, if yousee value for yourself, I want
you here.
If you don't, god bless you.
You can go out with funds, yourmoney, straight up, because I
don't think that it servesanybody to force people to do
(05:44):
things they don't want to do.
You know, and I think peopleappreciate and respect that a
great deal.
Jay Johnson (05:51):
Well, they can always be the person that's
sitting in that room that all ofa sudden finds themselves
disrupting that room when theydon't actually want to be there
or don't have the motivation tobe there.
I want to dig in one of yourbooks Finish Line Thinking.
I want to understand what's theconcept behind it, if you can
help share that with my audience, because I think about the
(06:12):
finish line for talentdevelopment professionals.
So our audience you know thatcoaches, the trainers.
The finish line for them isbusiness results from their
training, from their coaching.
What does that mean?
To have a finish line mindset,yeah.
Nicky Billou (06:27):
Great question.
So this is what the book lookslike, and it's a slim and quick
read.
Two trips to the throne willget it done for you, but, man,
those two trips to the thronewill make you one of the
smartest people around.
So here's a question for you.
You ever wondered what makes achampion a champion?
What has one person perform atthe highest level and another
(06:48):
one who's just as talented,maybe even more so, being also
ran?
Well, here's what I'vediscovered.
Right, all the research showsit's how they think, it's their
mindset, and a champion thinksdifferently than anybody else,
right?
So I used to work with a coupleof Olympic gold medalists
Donovan Bailey, canadian 100 100meter champion at the Olympics,
(07:12):
and Mark Boyd, canadian 110meter hurdles champion at the
Olympics.
And both these guys, what madethem champions was their mindset
.
They fought differently thananybody else.
One of the key things was theywanted to win and they expected
(07:34):
to win.
They wanted to win and theyexpected to win.
Most people who are not finishline thinkers they don't think
about winning very much and theydon't expect to win.
One of the reasons they don'texpect to win is because they
don't prepare themselves forvictory.
You know, I'll tell you a storyfrom the book Mark McCoy.
(07:57):
I asked him a question.
I said hey, buddy, you know,did you always like go into a
race situation thinking you weregoing to win?
He said no, sometimes I didn't.
And I said how come, man, I'mlike you're an Olympic gold
medalist?
He said, no, sometimes I didn't.
And I said how come, man, I'mlike you're an Olympic gold
medalist?
He said but I'm human too.
I said so what was the result?
(08:17):
He said inevitably, whenever Iexpected to win, I pretty much
almost always won, and wheneverI didn't expect to win, I pretty
much almost always didn't win.
Almost a self-fulfillingprophecy there didn't win Almost
a self-fulfilling prophecythere.
Yeah, he said, because when Iexpected to win, the reason I
(08:37):
expected to win is I was fullyprepared, I'd done all the I's,
I'd crossed all the T's, I'ddone everything necessary.
There was no room for error.
There was no room for errorwhen I didn't expect win.
I had dogged it, I had takenshortcuts, I had not done
everything to win.
So you got to understandexpectation of victory, a finish
(09:07):
line thinking mindset isembracing, learning how to win
and doing everything, noshortcuts.
So right now, right, I'mpreparing for a bodybuilding
competitions happening in 10days.
I'm gonna be two days shy of my57th birthday.
Okay, congratulations.
Jay Johnson (09:27):
I wanna win that competition.
Thank, you.
Nicky Billou (09:30):
I wanna win that competition, thank you.
I want to win that competitionand the reason that I feel
pretty confident is I've beendoing the work, I've been
preparing.
But here's another part.
I hired the best damn coach forgetting you prepared and put on
stage in the whole country ofCanada.
His name is Hammer the HammerCamera.
(09:54):
His company's called HammerFitness.
This dude is preparing me.
I just do what he says.
I eat what he tells me to eat.
I work out as much as he tellsme to work out.
I do everything he says.
So if you want to win, don'ttry to do it alone.
You need expert guidance.
You can try to figure it out onyour own.
You need expert guidance.
You can try to figure it out onyour own.
(10:14):
You might never figure it outor it might take you 10 years to
figure it out.
With an expert, you can shortcircuit that process and figure
it out in record time.
Jay Johnson (10:23):
That's so true and it's interesting.
So one of the programs that Ido is the Elite Training Academy
, where I'm helping trainers andcoaches sort of get their
either their departments up tospeed, their programs up to
speed, or, if they're individualsolopreneurs, get their
training and development up tospeed.
And that was actually one ofthe comments that came back from
(10:45):
one of the people is like Icould have done this.
It would have taken me 10 yearsand I've been able to get
through this with your coachingin less than a year and I'm
already hitting scale of mybusiness.
So that coaching aspect, whenyou looked at and what a great
name, right, amber the Hammer, Ilove that when you looked at
getting a coach, and even if youweren't able to get the best
(11:07):
coach into business or anythingelse like that, what was going
through your mind?
Like, how were you evaluating?
What type of a coach do I thinkI need?
How did that show up for you?
Nicky Billou (11:19):
Well, I'm a finish line thinker man.
I only hire the best coach inthe business.
I don't go for anybody else andI recommend that you do the
same.
I don't recommend you.
You get somebody who is not thebest coach.
And I also want to say this thebest coach isn't necessarily
the coach with the biggest name,no offense, but the guys with
the biggest names.
Sometimes they suck as coaches.
(11:41):
Let's just be honest.
They suck as coaches.
They're just really good atmarketing, okay.
So there's other criteria I usethan how big is this guy's name
and how many people have signedup for his programs.
That doesn't say jack to me.
I'll tell you why I hired Amr.
I was connected with Amr onFacebook.
(12:01):
We'd never met, but Amr wouldpost before and after shots of
his clients, would post beforeand after shots of his clients,
and many of his clients werepeople in my age range over the
age of 50, some even over theage of 60, who were in business
and not professional athletes.
(12:23):
And their before pictures theylook worse than I did in my
before picture.
And then their after picturethey looked like they belonged
on a bodybuilding stage holdinga trophy for winning the
competition nice, and this wasnot one person, two people, this
was dozens upon dozens upondozens.
Jay Johnson (12:44):
Yeah, so I got up one morning yeah, february 2nd,
9th, uh, 2023.
Nicky Billou (12:52):
I looked at myself in the mirror with my shirt off
, my belly's hanging over mybelt.
I was disgusted with myself.
I used to be a top trainer.
I used to work with Olympicchampions and I kept telling
myself when I got out of thatfield into the field of business
coaching, this will be my year.
(13:12):
And every year I gained weight.
I was over 50 pounds heavierthan I had been in my salad days
, as it were.
I decided that I couldn't dothis alone.
I needed a coach.
That's why I was failing.
So I hired the very best coach.
I only asked him two questionswhen we met.
I'm 55 at the time, I'm almost57.
(13:34):
And I said will this work forme at my age?
Absolutely, all right, great, Ineeded some head trash cleared
around that.
The second question I asked himis how long will it take?
He told me to be prepared forsix months to a year.
I didn't even ask him what hecharged, I just said I'm in.
I didn't even ask him what hecharged, I just said I'm in,
(13:55):
let's go.
And he told me what he chargedand it was no big deal
Financially.
It wasn't, you know, thehighest of high tickets, but in
a year and a half I broughtpeople from my family to work
with him and his team, and myeldest son not only started
being one of his clients for awhile.
He's 18 years old and he wantsto make a career out of health
(14:17):
fitness training.
So he and Amar got along andAmar's hired him to work with
him.
Nice.
So right now, man, this hasbeen a really good thing, not
just for me but for my wholefamily, and I've conservatively
spent over $30,000 with Amr sofar and I'll probably spend
(14:38):
another 30, 40, 50,000 with himover the next couple of years.
Jay Johnson (14:43):
Well, I will tell you that I will wish for your
success, but I expect it becauseI think that you've got that
finish line thinking ahead ofyou.
So let me dig back into thatfor just a moment.
How is it, you know, if ourtrainers and coaches and
audiences listening to this show, if they say, okay, I want to
get my audience to get into thatfinish line thinking mindset,
(15:04):
if I want to get my participants, the people I'm coaching, the
people I'm serving, if I'm goingto get them into that mindset,
what is maybe some of the waysthat you help people get from
point A to point B, wherethey're not expecting to win, or
maybe they don't have thatdesire or maybe they aren't
getting that prepared?
What is your process forgetting people over that finish
(15:26):
line?
Nicky Billou (15:29):
So I got to be honest when it comes to who I
work with, I'm very picky.
I'm looking for people who aredecisive and committed, like
they want to win, and if youdon't have that desire to win
and you don't have thatcommitment to win, you're not
going to work with me.
So I'm not in the business ofmotivating the unmotivated.
(15:49):
You know what I'm saying.
Secondly, they need to becoachable.
They need to be willing to takecoaching, like with Amr, I
don't argue with him, I don'teven ask him to explain why he's
asking me to do something.
I just he says I do.
He says I do.
That's what I really want myclients to do.
Just take the coaching.
(16:10):
You know what I really want myclients to do.
Just take the coaching.
You know what I mean and stoparguing with it.
And then, finally, they got tobe resourceful because it's
gonna take time, energy andmoney to win.
So I'll tell you story.
One of my clients her name isdr Dia, she's originally from
South Africa and she is a veryniche type of work.
(16:31):
She helps med spas and she hada med spa herself.
You know injections and thingslike that for people and she
didn't have a good message.
So first thing we did was wehelped her really refine her
message and her message was kindof all over the place message
(16:53):
and our message was kind of allover the place.
We helped her come to the pointto these med spots to say, hey,
you're leaving $10 million ayear on the table.
I want to show you how toreclaim it.
That's a good message.
It's a lot better message thanI help med spots.
So here's the deal Six monthsafter we met her, four months
(17:13):
after she signed up to work withus, we helped her put together
a live program for some med spaowners.
There were 12 people in theroom.
Eight had zero interest in whatshe had to say, Four had a lot
of interest, one was decisiveand committed and they gave her
a check for $5 the next day, 32days later, with our help, she
(17:37):
upsold that person into thesecond phase for another 500 000
.
So a million fifty thousand in32 days.
What made that possible?
Well, first of all, belief inher.
So we believe in the greatnessof people and the human spirit,
so we believe in this woman andthat was important.
But secondly, secondly, she washungry, ready, decisive,
(18:05):
committed and she was coachable.
She took the coaching andthat's what allowed her to make
over a million dollars in such ashort period of time.
Now someone's a coach or aconsultant and they go I'd like
to make a million dollars a year.
You can.
Could you do it in a year orless like she did?
Yeah, actually, I think shecould make four to five million
(18:25):
dollars this year and we'reworking with her to help her do
that.
But for most solopreneur coachesand consultant types, which are
the people that we primarilywork with or maybe there are a
couple or whatever workingtogether how do you get from
wherever they happen to be to aseven-figure-a-year practice?
Number one is you need someonein your corner who can help you
(18:47):
short-circuit that process froma decade into much less time.
Secondly, you need someone tobelieve in you and your
greatness.
And thirdly, you need to followtheir coaching.
Follow their coaching.
If you're coachable, you'regoing to win.
If you're not coachable, you'renot going to win.
Now, if you're coachable andeverything you're doing is what
(19:09):
they coach you to do and it'snot working, then you got to
work with them to tinker and fixit.
But sometimes you're going tohire the wrong coach.
That happens, in which casecourse correct.
Find a different coach, keepgoing.
Jay Johnson (19:22):
So, as you're evaluating somebody's
coachability, what are some ofthe things that you look for,
like, how is it you know, ifyou're interviewing Jay Johnson
and I'm like Nikki, I wantcoaching?
What is it that you'respecifically going to look for
in that person sitting acrossfrom you that's going to tell
you they're committed, they wantto win, they're engaged,
(19:44):
they're going to do what needsto be done?
How do you, how do youdetermine coachability?
Cause I think that's a hugechallenge with a lot of coaches
out there.
They don't know what to lookfor in terms of finding
coachability.
Nicky Billou (19:57):
Well, one of the things I offer is I offer an
initial what I call a successcoaching call for free.
So I give people 45 minutesession for free and in that
session I want to give them alot of value.
So I want to help give them ablueprint for how they can get
to where they want to get to.
But I'm also kind of evaluatingthem.
To help give them a blueprintfor how they can get to where
they want to get to, but I'malso kind of evaluating them.
(20:17):
I ask them some very specificquestions.
You know the questions arereally around asking them to
open the kimono, as it were.
What's not working.
If someone is willing to sharewhat's not working, I know
they're potentially a coachableperson.
If they're willing to be honestabout that, then they're going
to be honest about other thingsin our relationship.
If they're willing to sharetheir hopes and dreams and
(20:42):
what's been getting in the way,then I know this is a person who
sincerely wants to get thosethings out of the way.
Love, that it's powerful of theway it's powerful.
If they're not like I've gottenon calls with people and they
go well, you know this and thatthey're non-committal I'll have
(21:04):
what's called the come to Jesusconversation with them, I'll say
hey, listen, buddy, the waythis works is I ask some
questions.
Based on your answers, I canformulate something that will be
valuable for you.
If your answers aren'tforthcoming, I can't help you.
Are you willing to be openyourself up, tell me the truth,
(21:27):
and if they are not, I'll endthe call.
Jay Johnson (21:31):
I'll be polite about it, but I'll end the call
yeah well, I think polite aboutit, but I'll end the call.
Yeah Well, I think it's greatadvice and I think that a lot of
coaches might be a littlenervous to do that at first or
scared to do that at firstbecause it's like they don't
want a reputation or.
But in reality it's kind of akindness that you're doing.
It's like, hey, this isn'tgoing to work, we're not going
to jive, you're not on the samewavelength that I am.
(21:52):
I'm not seeing the things.
You know, the openness, theauthenticity that I'm going to
need to help you becomesuccessful.
Nicky Billou (22:01):
It's really a kindness, isn't it, nicky?
Honestly, I think it is.
It's a good way to put it.
It's a kindness, and you'redoing both yourself and them a
favor.
Move on to people.
You're not for everybody andnot everybody's for you.
Nothing wrong with that.
Jay Johnson (22:14):
Such great advice.
Is there anything else to tellour trainers, our coaches, our
HR people who are looking to getbehavioral change?
Any last words of encouragementideas, thoughts, tactics,
strategies that you would offer,nicky?
Nicky Billou (22:33):
I'd say you got to have a goal, get super clear on
what your goal is.
You need to say I want to workwith 10 more people.
I want to make a couple hundredthousand dollars extra by the
end of the year.
Whatever your goal is right, Iwant to have a seven-figure year
.
Whatever your goal is.
And then you got to obsess onthat goal, obsess on the goal.
Then you got to obsess on thatgoal.
(22:56):
Obsess on the goal, and I meanwhat is it going to take for you
to actually make that goal comealive?
If you do those two things beclear on your goal and then
obsess on the goal the nextthing you got to do is find
somebody to give you guidanceand once you do that, take their
guidance and success will beyours in the most uncommon of
(23:18):
hours, you know.
I'll tell one last story beforewe leave.
I had a client and he's passedaway now.
God rest his soul.
His name is Carl.
He used to be an executive vicepresident at a big
manufacturing company but he gotburned out, so he quit and he
became an executive coach and heloved it.
He worked half the hours.
(23:38):
He worked 25, 30 hours a weekinstead of 50, 60 hours a week
and he loved it.
He loved what he was doing, whohe was working with.
There was only one thing hedidn't love.
He took an 80% haircut from$350,000 a year to $70,000 a
year.
So when he came to us he justhe wanted to make the same
(23:59):
amount of money he used to make,but with a new lifestyle that
he had.
What we figured out is Carldidn't really understand how to
be an entrepreneur.
Asked him, who do you help?
He says I can help anybody withany business problem.
That was his first mistake.
So we helped him narrow who hewas going after.
There's a series of exerciseswe did around that and he
figured out he wanted to goafter solopreneur law firms that
(24:22):
were doing at least sevenfigures and wanted to triple in
size or more.
That was powerful because allhis messaging was focused around
them.
Then I looked at what hecharged people and it was
ridiculously low.
So I made him quadruple hisrates.
Within less than six months Carlwent from making $70,000 a year
(24:47):
On a good month, that's $6,000a month.
He was having $50,000 a monthNice $50,000 a year a month
sorry, he was having $50,000 amonth, nice $50,000.
And he said can I do $100,000?
I said, sure you can.
So we took him to $100,000.
But he said after two months at$100,000, he said it's too much
work, I want to go back down to$50,000.
(25:09):
Went back down to $ and for thenext you know, five, six years,
carl Carl made 600,000 a year,$250,000 more than he made as an
executive vice president,working 30 hours a week, loving
what he was doing.
Right, and to me, if that's you, if you're, if you have an
(25:32):
inner Carl Kramer and you'restuck and you're not making the
money you deserve to make andyou know you were meant for
bigger things and you reallywant to make a big difference
for yourself and for yourclients, then everything I've
told you is what you need to doSet a big goal, obsess on the
(25:52):
goal and get guidance.
Jay Johnson (25:55):
Great advice, Nicky .
Thank you so, Nicky how wouldour?
Audience.
Yeah, absolutely.
How would our audience get intouch with you?
Nicky Billou (26:04):
Nicky Ballou.
I'm the only one on the planetN-I-C-K-Y-B-I-L-L-O-U.
Find me anywhere on socialmedia.
Tell me.
You heard me on the podcast.
I'll respond and if you areinterested in having a look at
why your business is stuck, Ioffer the free coaching session.
I told you about the successsession.
Go to ecircleacademycom forwardslash appointment.
(26:26):
Let me know you came from theshow.
I'll accept the request for thecoaching session.
Let's help you get unstuck,because you deserve that.
Jay Johnson (26:37):
Incredible.
Nicky, Thank you so much fortaking the time to be here on
the Talent Forge with us.
We really appreciate yourinsights and your guidance and
we'll make sure that thoseaccessibility links are in the
show notes to make sure that ouraudience can get in touch with
you to help them grow and scaletheir own businesses.
Thanks a lot, Nicky.
Nicky Billou (26:56):
Thanks, brother, god bless you, take care,
Bye-bye.
Welcome to this episode of the Talent Forge,
where we are shaping the futureof talent development.
I'm joined by special guestNikki Bilou.
Welcome to the show, nikki.
Nicky Billou (00:10):
Jay, an honor to be here.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Jay Johnson (00:13):
Amazing Nikki.
Why don't you tell our audiencea little bit about yourself and
sort of how you got into thistalent development space?
Nicky Billou (00:22):
I'm originally an immigrant from the Middle East.
I'm a Christian from Iran.
When I was 11 years old, theIslamic revolution took place in
Iran.
It was a cataclysmic,world-changing event and it
absolutely upended my world.
My late father, god rest hissoul.
He could see the writing on thewall this wasn't going to be a
place to raise a Christianfamily.
(00:42):
So he and my mom got together,they made a plan and eventually
they got my brothers and I outof Iran and into where I live
now in Toronto, canada.
So it took almost five yearsfour years, excuse me for that
to happen Now.
At the time, man, I was a kid.
I didn't want to leave my home.
I didn't want to leave myfriends.
But you know in retrospect,brother, it was the single
greatest thing mom and dad couldhave done for me and my two
(01:04):
brothers.
They took us from a legacy oftyranny to a legacy of freedom.
I believe inside every humanbreast beats the living heart of
freedom.
Every man, every woman on thisplanet wants to chart their own
course, march to the tune oftheir own drummer and if you
think about it, if you're anentrepreneur, freedom is the
bedrock of what lets you existWithout freedom freedom of
(01:28):
thought, freedom of expression.
You can't come up with theideas to create your beautiful
vision.
Without free enterprise.
You're living in a crony state,which means you can't go and
make what you want to havehappen happen.
Every single one of us needs toappreciate and love freedom.
That's super, super, superimportant.
So I became this big advocateand champion for freedom my
(01:48):
father.
He was the same way.
If you met my dad, jay, you'dlove him.
You know, if you were lookingfor work, dad would sit you down
in his office.
He'd call all his entrepreneurbuddies till one of them gave
you a job.
If you were looking to start abusiness, he'd sit you down in
his office.
He'd help you think it through.
He'd help you get access tocapital clients, you name it
even if you were going tocompete with him, because he
didn't really believe incompetition anyways.
(02:10):
And if you were trying to buy acar or a house and you were his
friend and the bank wouldn'tgive you quite enough money,
he'd top you up with a loan thathe'd never let you pay back.
Now you might think to yourselfNicky, hold on, who does that?
And I'll tell you the lategreat Napoleon Ballou for one,
and you might think well, whywould he do that?
(02:32):
Well, first of all, he was adevout and committed Christian.
He believed that he'd beenblessed by God and his Lord and
Savior, jesus Christ, and it washis duty as a Christian to
share those blessings with hisfellow man and woman.
But secondly, bro, he did itbecause he could.
He was rich man.
I wanted to be like dad.
I wanted people to come to me,I wanted to be somebody who
(02:53):
helped people.
And growing up, dad would tellme all the time son, life is
about people, not money.
Business, son, is about people,not money.
I'm like, hold up, dad.
I got the life part BusinessWithout money you can't do
business, he said.
That's true, son, but withoutpeople there's no need for money
to do business.
All business is is solvingproblems for people, and then
(03:16):
you make a profit.
That's the purpose of business.
And then he said remember everyman standing in front of you.
That's someone's son, that'ssomeone's brother, that's
someone's husband, that'ssomeone's father, that's a hero
to somebody.
Maybe they've been burned bysomebody, just like you.
It's your job to restore theirfaith in humanity.
And you got to also rememberthat, that individual in front
(03:37):
of you.
They have hopes, they havedreams.
Maybe they've stopped believingin them, but they have them.
And your job, your number onejob, with everybody that comes
across your path, is to seetheir greatness and show it to
them.
Your job is to believe inpeople, because everybody needs
(03:58):
someone to believe in them.
You need that, I need that,everybody needs that.
And you know what I've done?
A lot of things.
I've written, published 10books, two New York Times
bestsellers.
I've got two podcasts closingin on you know 730, 40 episodes
between the two of them that wepublish.
I've been on over 600 shows.
I've helped over a dozen peoplebecome millionaires and
(04:19):
multimillionaires and I'vehelped another 80, 90 people add
between a hundred000 to$700,000 to their annual income.
And all those things areawesome.
But the thing that I'm mostproud of is I'm my father's son
and I believe in people.
Jay Johnson (04:34):
Such a powerful story Nicky, thank you for
giving us that and I think abouteven something like the concept
of freedom.
One of the things that we oftensee in the talent development
space, for example, is we're anemployee, we're sitting in an
organization and all of a suddenwe are handed down here's a
training, you need to go do thistraining and there's really not
(04:54):
that much decision making fromthat employee.
That's going to be aparticipant and, honestly, it is
a little bit of a lack offreedom.
So let me ask you you know howimportant is it?
Or how do you manage asituation where maybe somebody
is in one of the training orsome kind of a talk or something
like that that maybe theydidn't have agency to sign up
(05:16):
for or they didn't have a choicein the matter?
How do you manage that type ofa participant?
Nicky Billou (05:23):
Look, if someone doesn't want to be there, I just
tell them, and whoever sentthem there, they don't need to
be here.
This is a place for you.
If you want to be here, if yousee value for yourself, I want
you here.
If you don't, god bless you.
You can go out with funds, yourmoney, straight up, because I
don't think that it servesanybody to force people to do
(05:44):
things they don't want to do.
You know, and I think peopleappreciate and respect that a
great deal.
Jay Johnson (05:51):
Well, they can always be the person that's
sitting in that room that all ofa sudden finds themselves
disrupting that room when theydon't actually want to be there
or don't have the motivation tobe there.
I want to dig in one of yourbooks Finish Line Thinking.
I want to understand what's theconcept behind it, if you can
help share that with my audience, because I think about the
(06:12):
finish line for talentdevelopment professionals.
So our audience you know thatcoaches, the trainers.
The finish line for them isbusiness results from their
training, from their coaching.
What does that mean?
To have a finish line mindset,yeah.
Nicky Billou (06:27):
Great question.
So this is what the book lookslike, and it's a slim and quick
read.
Two trips to the throne willget it done for you, but, man,
those two trips to the thronewill make you one of the
smartest people around.
So here's a question for you.
You ever wondered what makes achampion a champion?
What has one person perform atthe highest level and another
(06:48):
one who's just as talented,maybe even more so, being also
ran?
Well, here's what I'vediscovered.
Right, all the research showsit's how they think, it's their
mindset, and a champion thinksdifferently than anybody else,
right?
So I used to work with a coupleof Olympic gold medalists
Donovan Bailey, canadian 100 100meter champion at the Olympics,
(07:12):
and Mark Boyd, canadian 110meter hurdles champion at the
Olympics.
And both these guys, what madethem champions was their mindset
.
They fought differently thananybody else.
One of the key things was theywanted to win and they expected
(07:34):
to win.
They wanted to win and theyexpected to win.
Most people who are not finishline thinkers they don't think
about winning very much and theydon't expect to win.
One of the reasons they don'texpect to win is because they
don't prepare themselves forvictory.
You know, I'll tell you a storyfrom the book Mark McCoy.
(07:57):
I asked him a question.
I said hey, buddy, you know,did you always like go into a
race situation thinking you weregoing to win?
He said no, sometimes I didn't.
And I said how come, man, I'mlike you're an Olympic gold
medalist?
He said, no, sometimes I didn't.
And I said how come, man, I'mlike you're an Olympic gold
medalist?
He said but I'm human too.
I said so what was the result?
(08:17):
He said inevitably, whenever Iexpected to win, I pretty much
almost always won, and wheneverI didn't expect to win, I pretty
much almost always didn't win.
Almost a self-fulfillingprophecy there didn't win Almost
a self-fulfilling prophecythere.
Yeah, he said, because when Iexpected to win, the reason I
(08:37):
expected to win is I was fullyprepared, I'd done all the I's,
I'd crossed all the T's, I'ddone everything necessary.
There was no room for error.
There was no room for errorwhen I didn't expect win.
I had dogged it, I had takenshortcuts, I had not done
everything to win.
So you got to understandexpectation of victory, a finish
(09:07):
line thinking mindset isembracing, learning how to win
and doing everything, noshortcuts.
So right now, right, I'mpreparing for a bodybuilding
competitions happening in 10days.
I'm gonna be two days shy of my57th birthday.
Okay, congratulations.
Jay Johnson (09:27):
I wanna win that competition.
Thank, you.
Nicky Billou (09:30):
I wanna win that competition, thank you.
I want to win that competitionand the reason that I feel
pretty confident is I've beendoing the work, I've been
preparing.
But here's another part.
I hired the best damn coach forgetting you prepared and put on
stage in the whole country ofCanada.
His name is Hammer the HammerCamera.
(09:54):
His company's called HammerFitness.
This dude is preparing me.
I just do what he says.
I eat what he tells me to eat.
I work out as much as he tellsme to work out.
I do everything he says.
So if you want to win, don'ttry to do it alone.
You need expert guidance.
You can try to figure it out onyour own.
You need expert guidance.
You can try to figure it out onyour own.
(10:14):
You might never figure it outor it might take you 10 years to
figure it out.
With an expert, you can shortcircuit that process and figure
it out in record time.
Jay Johnson (10:23):
That's so true and it's interesting.
So one of the programs that Ido is the Elite Training Academy
, where I'm helping trainers andcoaches sort of get their
either their departments up tospeed, their programs up to
speed, or, if they're individualsolopreneurs, get their
training and development up tospeed.
And that was actually one ofthe comments that came back from
(10:45):
one of the people is like Icould have done this.
It would have taken me 10 yearsand I've been able to get
through this with your coachingin less than a year and I'm
already hitting scale of mybusiness.
So that coaching aspect, whenyou looked at and what a great
name, right, amber the Hammer, Ilove that when you looked at
getting a coach, and even if youweren't able to get the best
(11:07):
coach into business or anythingelse like that, what was going
through your mind?
Like, how were you evaluating?
What type of a coach do I thinkI need?
How did that show up for you?
Nicky Billou (11:19):
Well, I'm a finish line thinker man.
I only hire the best coach inthe business.
I don't go for anybody else andI recommend that you do the
same.
I don't recommend you.
You get somebody who is not thebest coach.
And I also want to say this thebest coach isn't necessarily
the coach with the biggest name,no offense, but the guys with
the biggest names.
Sometimes they suck as coaches.
(11:41):
Let's just be honest.
They suck as coaches.
They're just really good atmarketing, okay.
So there's other criteria I usethan how big is this guy's name
and how many people have signedup for his programs.
That doesn't say jack to me.
I'll tell you why I hired Amr.
I was connected with Amr onFacebook.
(12:01):
We'd never met, but Amr wouldpost before and after shots of
his clients, would post beforeand after shots of his clients,
and many of his clients werepeople in my age range over the
age of 50, some even over theage of 60, who were in business
and not professional athletes.
(12:23):
And their before pictures theylook worse than I did in my
before picture.
And then their after picturethey looked like they belonged
on a bodybuilding stage holdinga trophy for winning the
competition nice, and this wasnot one person, two people, this
was dozens upon dozens upondozens.
Jay Johnson (12:44):
Yeah, so I got up one morning yeah, february 2nd,
9th, uh, 2023.
Nicky Billou (12:52):
I looked at myself in the mirror with my shirt off
, my belly's hanging over mybelt.
I was disgusted with myself.
I used to be a top trainer.
I used to work with Olympicchampions and I kept telling
myself when I got out of thatfield into the field of business
coaching, this will be my year.
(13:12):
And every year I gained weight.
I was over 50 pounds heavierthan I had been in my salad days
, as it were.
I decided that I couldn't dothis alone.
I needed a coach.
That's why I was failing.
So I hired the very best coach.
I only asked him two questionswhen we met.
I'm 55 at the time, I'm almost57.
(13:34):
And I said will this work forme at my age?
Absolutely, all right, great, Ineeded some head trash cleared
around that.
The second question I asked himis how long will it take?
He told me to be prepared forsix months to a year.
I didn't even ask him what hecharged, I just said I'm in.
I didn't even ask him what hecharged, I just said I'm in,
(13:55):
let's go.
And he told me what he chargedand it was no big deal
Financially.
It wasn't, you know, thehighest of high tickets, but in
a year and a half I broughtpeople from my family to work
with him and his team, and myeldest son not only started
being one of his clients for awhile.
He's 18 years old and he wantsto make a career out of health
(14:17):
fitness training.
So he and Amar got along andAmar's hired him to work with
him.
Nice.
So right now, man, this hasbeen a really good thing, not
just for me but for my wholefamily, and I've conservatively
spent over $30,000 with Amr sofar and I'll probably spend
(14:38):
another 30, 40, 50,000 with himover the next couple of years.
Jay Johnson (14:43):
Well, I will tell you that I will wish for your
success, but I expect it becauseI think that you've got that
finish line thinking ahead ofyou.
So let me dig back into thatfor just a moment.
How is it, you know, if ourtrainers and coaches and
audiences listening to this show, if they say, okay, I want to
get my audience to get into thatfinish line thinking mindset,
(15:04):
if I want to get my participants, the people I'm coaching, the
people I'm serving, if I'm goingto get them into that mindset,
what is maybe some of the waysthat you help people get from
point A to point B, wherethey're not expecting to win, or
maybe they don't have thatdesire or maybe they aren't
getting that prepared?
What is your process forgetting people over that finish
(15:26):
line?
Nicky Billou (15:29):
So I got to be honest when it comes to who I
work with, I'm very picky.
I'm looking for people who aredecisive and committed, like
they want to win, and if youdon't have that desire to win
and you don't have thatcommitment to win, you're not
going to work with me.
So I'm not in the business ofmotivating the unmotivated.
(15:49):
You know what I'm saying.
Secondly, they need to becoachable.
They need to be willing to takecoaching, like with Amr, I
don't argue with him, I don'teven ask him to explain why he's
asking me to do something.
I just he says I do.
He says I do.
That's what I really want myclients to do.
Just take the coaching.
(16:10):
You know what I really want myclients to do.
Just take the coaching.
You know what I mean and stoparguing with it.
And then, finally, they got tobe resourceful because it's
gonna take time, energy andmoney to win.
So I'll tell you story.
One of my clients her name isdr Dia, she's originally from
South Africa and she is a veryniche type of work.
(16:31):
She helps med spas and she hada med spa herself.
You know injections and thingslike that for people and she
didn't have a good message.
So first thing we did was wehelped her really refine her
message and her message was kindof all over the place message
(16:53):
and our message was kind of allover the place.
We helped her come to the pointto these med spots to say, hey,
you're leaving $10 million ayear on the table.
I want to show you how toreclaim it.
That's a good message.
It's a lot better message thanI help med spots.
So here's the deal Six monthsafter we met her, four months
(17:13):
after she signed up to work withus, we helped her put together
a live program for some med spaowners.
There were 12 people in theroom.
Eight had zero interest in whatshe had to say, Four had a lot
of interest, one was decisiveand committed and they gave her
a check for $5 the next day, 32days later, with our help, she
(17:37):
upsold that person into thesecond phase for another 500 000
.
So a million fifty thousand in32 days.
What made that possible?
Well, first of all, belief inher.
So we believe in the greatnessof people and the human spirit,
so we believe in this woman andthat was important.
But secondly, secondly, she washungry, ready, decisive,
(18:05):
committed and she was coachable.
She took the coaching andthat's what allowed her to make
over a million dollars in such ashort period of time.
Now someone's a coach or aconsultant and they go I'd like
to make a million dollars a year.
You can.
Could you do it in a year orless like she did?
Yeah, actually, I think shecould make four to five million
(18:25):
dollars this year and we'reworking with her to help her do
that.
But for most solopreneur coachesand consultant types, which are
the people that we primarilywork with or maybe there are a
couple or whatever workingtogether how do you get from
wherever they happen to be to aseven-figure-a-year practice?
Number one is you need someonein your corner who can help you
(18:47):
short-circuit that process froma decade into much less time.
Secondly, you need someone tobelieve in you and your
greatness.
And thirdly, you need to followtheir coaching.
Follow their coaching.
If you're coachable, you'regoing to win.
If you're not coachable, you'renot going to win.
Now, if you're coachable andeverything you're doing is what
(19:09):
they coach you to do and it'snot working, then you got to
work with them to tinker and fixit.
But sometimes you're going tohire the wrong coach.
That happens, in which casecourse correct.
Find a different coach, keepgoing.
Jay Johnson (19:22):
So, as you're evaluating somebody's
coachability, what are some ofthe things that you look for,
like, how is it you know, ifyou're interviewing Jay Johnson
and I'm like Nikki, I wantcoaching?
What is it that you'respecifically going to look for
in that person sitting acrossfrom you that's going to tell
you they're committed, they wantto win, they're engaged,
(19:44):
they're going to do what needsto be done?
How do you, how do youdetermine coachability?
Cause I think that's a hugechallenge with a lot of coaches
out there.
They don't know what to lookfor in terms of finding
coachability.
Nicky Billou (19:57):
Well, one of the things I offer is I offer an
initial what I call a successcoaching call for free.
So I give people 45 minutesession for free and in that
session I want to give them alot of value.
So I want to help give them ablueprint for how they can get
to where they want to get to.
But I'm also kind of evaluatingthem.
To help give them a blueprintfor how they can get to where
they want to get to, but I'malso kind of evaluating them.
(20:17):
I ask them some very specificquestions.
You know the questions arereally around asking them to
open the kimono, as it were.
What's not working.
If someone is willing to sharewhat's not working, I know
they're potentially a coachableperson.
If they're willing to be honestabout that, then they're going
to be honest about other thingsin our relationship.
If they're willing to sharetheir hopes and dreams and
(20:42):
what's been getting in the way,then I know this is a person who
sincerely wants to get thosethings out of the way.
Love, that it's powerful of theway it's powerful.
If they're not like I've gottenon calls with people and they
go well, you know this and thatthey're non-committal I'll have
(21:04):
what's called the come to Jesusconversation with them, I'll say
hey, listen, buddy, the waythis works is I ask some
questions.
Based on your answers, I canformulate something that will be
valuable for you.
If your answers aren'tforthcoming, I can't help you.
Are you willing to be openyourself up, tell me the truth,
(21:27):
and if they are not, I'll endthe call.
Jay Johnson (21:31):
I'll be polite about it, but I'll end the call
yeah well, I think polite aboutit, but I'll end the call.
Yeah Well, I think it's greatadvice and I think that a lot of
coaches might be a littlenervous to do that at first or
scared to do that at firstbecause it's like they don't
want a reputation or.
But in reality it's kind of akindness that you're doing.
It's like, hey, this isn'tgoing to work, we're not going
to jive, you're not on the samewavelength that I am.
(21:52):
I'm not seeing the things.
You know, the openness, theauthenticity that I'm going to
need to help you becomesuccessful.
Nicky Billou (22:01):
It's really a kindness, isn't it, nicky?
Honestly, I think it is.
It's a good way to put it.
It's a kindness, and you'redoing both yourself and them a
favor.
Move on to people.
You're not for everybody andnot everybody's for you.
Nothing wrong with that.
Jay Johnson (22:14):
Such great advice.
Is there anything else to tellour trainers, our coaches, our
HR people who are looking to getbehavioral change?
Any last words of encouragementideas, thoughts, tactics,
strategies that you would offer,nicky?
Nicky Billou (22:33):
I'd say you got to have a goal, get super clear on
what your goal is.
You need to say I want to workwith 10 more people.
I want to make a couple hundredthousand dollars extra by the
end of the year.
Whatever your goal is right, Iwant to have a seven-figure year
.
Whatever your goal is.
And then you got to obsess onthat goal, obsess on the goal.
Then you got to obsess on thatgoal.
(22:56):
Obsess on the goal, and I meanwhat is it going to take for you
to actually make that goal comealive?
If you do those two things beclear on your goal and then
obsess on the goal the nextthing you got to do is find
somebody to give you guidanceand once you do that, take their
guidance and success will beyours in the most uncommon of
(23:18):
hours, you know.
I'll tell one last story beforewe leave.
I had a client and he's passedaway now.
God rest his soul.
His name is Carl.
He used to be an executive vicepresident at a big
manufacturing company but he gotburned out, so he quit and he
became an executive coach and heloved it.
He worked half the hours.
(23:38):
He worked 25, 30 hours a weekinstead of 50, 60 hours a week
and he loved it.
He loved what he was doing, whohe was working with.
There was only one thing hedidn't love.
He took an 80% haircut from$350,000 a year to $70,000 a
year.
So when he came to us he justhe wanted to make the same
(23:59):
amount of money he used to make,but with a new lifestyle that
he had.
What we figured out is Carldidn't really understand how to
be an entrepreneur.
Asked him, who do you help?
He says I can help anybody withany business problem.
That was his first mistake.
So we helped him narrow who hewas going after.
There's a series of exerciseswe did around that and he
figured out he wanted to goafter solopreneur law firms that
(24:22):
were doing at least sevenfigures and wanted to triple in
size or more.
That was powerful because allhis messaging was focused around
them.
Then I looked at what hecharged people and it was
ridiculously low.
So I made him quadruple hisrates.
Within less than six months Carlwent from making $70,000 a year
(24:47):
On a good month, that's $6,000a month.
He was having $50,000 a monthNice $50,000 a year a month
sorry, he was having $50,000 amonth, nice $50,000.
And he said can I do $100,000?
I said, sure you can.
So we took him to $100,000.
But he said after two months at$100,000, he said it's too much
work, I want to go back down to$50,000.
(25:09):
Went back down to $ and for thenext you know, five, six years,
carl Carl made 600,000 a year,$250,000 more than he made as an
executive vice president,working 30 hours a week, loving
what he was doing.
Right, and to me, if that's you, if you're, if you have an
(25:32):
inner Carl Kramer and you'restuck and you're not making the
money you deserve to make andyou know you were meant for
bigger things and you reallywant to make a big difference
for yourself and for yourclients, then everything I've
told you is what you need to doSet a big goal, obsess on the
(25:52):
goal and get guidance.
Jay Johnson (25:55):
Great advice, Nicky .
Thank you so, Nicky how wouldour?
Audience.
Yeah, absolutely.
How would our audience get intouch with you?
Nicky Billou (26:04):
Nicky Ballou.
I'm the only one on the planetN-I-C-K-Y-B-I-L-L-O-U.
Find me anywhere on socialmedia.
Tell me.
You heard me on the podcast.
I'll respond and if you areinterested in having a look at
why your business is stuck, Ioffer the free coaching session.
I told you about the successsession.
Go to ecircleacademycom forwardslash appointment.
(26:26):
Let me know you came from theshow.
I'll accept the request for thecoaching session.
Let's help you get unstuck,because you deserve that.
Jay Johnson (26:37):
Incredible.
Nicky, Thank you so much fortaking the time to be here on
the Talent Forge with us.
We really appreciate yourinsights and your guidance and
we'll make sure that thoseaccessibility links are in the
show notes to make sure that ouraudience can get in touch with
you to help them grow and scaletheir own businesses.
Thanks a lot, Nicky.
Nicky Billou (26:56):
Thanks, brother, god bless you, take care,
Bye-bye.
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