EP 40 Paul Horschel

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro/Outro (00:02):
Let's drop the green flag on this episode of
the talent tank podcast withyour host Wyatt Pemberton
bringing you the best, fastest,most knowledgeable personalities
and ultra for and off roadracing.

Wyatt Pemberton (00:20):
All right, all right. All right. All right.
Here we go. Today on the talenttank, we're back at it. I've got
you know, the most mysteriousman and Ultra4 racing to cap off
the this fall season of Ultra4and the talent tank, man. I've
got Paul Horschel on the showtoday, Paul. How you doing, man?

Paul Horschel (00:39):
I'm doing great.
Glad to be here. But tell mystory. Yeah, everybody thinks it
is. But

I don't know if it's mysterious. It's just
people just don't know. So theyfill in the blanks.

Yeah, I'm just a normal guy. Loves racing family,
doing what I love.

Well, that you do, man and you build some
amazing race cars and you'reself taught and now I mean, I've
really been looking forward tositting down with you and, and
spending a couple hours with yougetting kind of your story
captured? I guess. I mean,you're the driver of the number
19 4400 car. bright orange saysNitto down the side.

Yeah.Definitely me. Racing is a whirlwind.

everybody listening, so we hit some some
tech snags. You know, Paul and Italked at Nationals in Oklahoma
a few weeks ago, I handed himone of the Pelican cases, the
interview kits that I hand out.
And tonight, you know, well,let's back up a little bit. A
few weeks ago, before Baja, wewent to record and the power
went out at your house and theinternet was out at your house.

(01:44):
And then we ended up not beingable to record it all you went
to Mexico and it's crazy. Mynotes. were like, Hey, you know
what's next? You know, here atthe very end, you know, hey,
what's next for you? You knowwin baja right as you're getting
ready to go to Baja, well youwon baja?

Yeah, that was the goal. So somehow it came out
that way but which was amazingto go down there when baja first
time but yeah, that was thegoal. That was pretty crazy.
Getting ready for Baja, just, Imean, it was just nonstop we had
I think it was about I don'teven know. I mean, I think it
was two weeks after Nationals.
And then we went to Moab also inbetween there for four days. Go

(02:23):
do some rock crawling, when itwas straight, changing motors
and changing transmissions prepin the car. You know, just one
thing after another. It's beenlike a whirlwind for the last
like six weeks.

Yeah,

I got on when a ball is pretty amazing. It's
like my childhood dream. And toget that done. It's pretty cool.

You took your two seater down there, you
teamed up with another knownknown fellow that we all know
and love Loren Healy.

Yeah, Loren. I mean, it was a pretty good
match. He's a little bigger thanme. So he kind of had to squeeze
in the car. But, you know, wekind of have the same sponsors
with Nitto. And Loren's beendown a ball a few times. It made
a lot of sense to go down therewith Loren, because he, you
know, had a chase truck broughta bunch of spare parts. He
drives one of my other cars, sohe's kind of used to the car. He

(03:12):
wasn't gonna get a lot of seattime and before hopping in and
you know,

right, that he has a single seater that he got
off you. But this was you guyswere racing a two seater?

That's correct.
He was racing to my two seateror we both racing in the two
seater, but which has the samefront ifs as the car that Loren
is racing currently.

Characteristics of the same or similar?

It's similar.
Yeah, it's a bigger, it's alittle bit bigger car. But you
know, not too much. This holds alittle more fuel set up for two
guys. You definitely wouldn'twant to go down to baja and race
as a single seater. At least Iwouldn't, I'd probably blow
every corner down there.

Just staying in it.

You know, it's just, it's just a lot of
corners. I mean, it's just theysay this baja was the toughest
baja yet, which was it was justquarter after quarter after
quarter. It was just non stopfor 1000 miles or 900 miles. I
mean, it was

just a lot of turns just a lot of turns where
there are a lot of steering pumpfailures. Did you know anything
like that on guys are rackfailures on other cars.

The other was quite a few I think the Menzies
truck broke the rack or the ourpump was pretty much toast by
the time it got to the finishline. It was whining pretty
good. Good. So but it made it Ididn't notice anything in the
car as we got there, but I couldhear a noise coming in the truck
about mile 800. And then we gotto the finish line it was
definitely needs to rebuild.

And then you guys kind of had some ringers on
chase crews you guys had, likeDave Cole and his guys.

Yeah, Dave Cole has been really awesome. He's
always told me whenever you wantto go to Baja, just let me know.
And I've always kind of keptthat in the back of my head and
you know, and then this year wasCOVID and the hole, not racing,
it just kind of made sense forme to go race baja this year,
most years were too busy to gorace. So it made a lot of sense

(05:10):
for us to go and Dave wasn'tdoing anything. So it was like
made a lot of sense to justlike, okay, let's uh, he just
wanted to come help. And, youknow, he's won Baja, he knows
all about Baja, we, we justdon't know anything, we just go
down there. We're just a coupleguys going down there and
hitting the racecourse. But Ididn't even do any of that. I

(05:35):
didn't eat any tacos. And Ididn't drink any beer because my
focus is racing and I can't havea bad gut. Oh, I gotta, I gotta
sacrifice the tacos.

I saw a video and man, you're gonna laugh when
you hear that I've seen this.
But Will Gentile sent me a videomonths and months and months
ago, when we were talking aboutyou. And it's, they're
interviewing you for somethingand, and they said, You have two
choices. You're almost to thefinish line, you're in first
place. And you have to take adump, you got to take a number

(06:10):
two, and it's like, do younumber two in your in your fire
suit? Or? Or do you hold it?
Like, how bad do you hold it inyour just No, no was? Do you
take it in your fire suit? Or doyou get out? You pull off and
you know, go hide behind acactus or something? And you
said, you said I'd hold it andthey said that's not an option.

It is an option.
And what's crazy as we raced forthe first 450 miles, and I
didn't take a piss the wholetime. I can't pee in a race car.
I can drink water. When I getout I pee, like five gallons. I
bought my bladder was justkilling me. I was like what's
wrong with my stomach? I thoughtit was all the bumps. And then I

(06:50):
got out of the car and I wastalking to my wife and I was
like, Yeah, my stomach and shewas like, well, it's probably
your bladder. Entirely full.

And she's fully qualified to give you that that
advice too. We'll talk we'lltalk about your wife here in a
little bit. But she's a doctor.

Yeah, that's right. So I mean, but it's crazy
that I mean, I can I physicallycan't pee while I'm driving the
racecar. So I don't think I noproblem. Hold it. Just, you
know, the, you somehow just holdit in? I guess it's just you're
just so tense, or I'm so tense,driving, you know, corner to

(07:28):
corner that just don't have thetime to do it.

Hey, that's fair. I get that I don't have I
don't have a problem going inthe race car like I can. Which
you never know. It's you neverknow till you're in that
situation? Can you go or not go?
And I have turns out I have noproblem going for wide open
throttle in a turn. Justthinking about it for a split
second. Like, yeah, I could gothe bathroom, and it goes. And

(07:52):
then there's those guys can't goat all. Or they have to be
stopped. And we just I justtalked about this with Pam Hall
a few weeks ago about womengoing to the restroom in the
car. And how does that how doesthat work? And I was five
minutes of hilarity. I waslaughing most of it.

Yeah. How does that work?

They they really only have one option?

Yeah, well, they better hope they're like me,
they can handle it for 450miles.

You know, that

was the longest I've ever done it.

Yeah, I mean, that's so figure. Well, yes,
averaging 50 50 50 miles 50miles an hour was

this baja. This baja was really technical. I
think it was low 40 or 40. Itwas Yeah, it was

so pretty was 11 12 hours without a piss.

I think it was about 11 hours before we got out
11, 11 and a half or somethingbefore we got out.

That's a marathon man. That's awesome

in it. I really can't take a piss until like,
probably about 30 minutes afterI get out. And then I can, you
know, I calm down and I can justgo pee like normal. But it's
just I don't know what it is.
But

isnt a human body. interesting in that
regard. I mean, it's I don'tknow if you think it's physical,
or do you think it's mental? Orboth?

I think it's I think it's definitely mental. I
think it's just I can't slow mymind down enough. Because
there's these speed zones inBaja, where you get on the
highway for 10 miles at 37 milesan hour. But everybody would
think that Oh, that's perfecttime to take a piss. But the
problem is you got to go 37miles an hour. You don't want to
go 36 because someone's going topass you at 37 you know, if you

(09:37):
start so you're really focusedon that speedometer. So there
really wasn't a time in Bajawhere you weren't focused. It
was even in the speed zones.
When you're just cruising on thehighway. You still mentally
focused on doing your job. No,so it's just I think I focus so
much on that stuff that I justall the other stuff just gets
put on hold

I think that's fair. Right? So was Mitch Sweat,
your your co Dr.

Mitchell Sweat.
Yeah, he drove. Well, we drovethe first 450 together. And then
Loren drove 250, Lauren and myfriend Zig, Miss, and I hop back
in for the last 250

Oh, nice. Nice.
So you actually handled a bigmajority of the race and more.
No, he lifted the middle to 50

ish. Yeah, no. So we hop back in for the last 200.
So I drove 650 he drove 250.
Yeah. And Dave, Dave was like,are you sure you want to do
this? And I go, sure, you wantto jump back in the car after
like, you know, four or fivehour nap. And I'm like, Dude,
this is what I'm meant to do.
This is what I, you know, Idon't even want to get out of

(10:46):
the car. But I'll tell you what,after going for 50 hours,
looking forward to Laura gettingin the truck.

And it worked out. So what was your lead? What
was your split time lead at the450? When you got out? You know,
at this point,

we didn't pre run the first I think it was about
40 miles of the racecourse. AndShannon actually caught us in a
speed zone. So I don't know howall that works. But right at the
end of a speed zone you wantaround us. So we just basically
followed in behind them and justcruise that. I mean, Dave was
constantly calling me on theradio, just just keep going

(11:23):
Don't try to pass something,I'll just just go. So we just
cruised and at mile 420 or fourkennish he was doing a driver
change with Waylon. And at thatpoint, Dave was calling me on
the radio telling us where youknow, less than a mile back,
just don't try and pass them.
It's not worth it. So we pulledin there, they were swapping

(11:43):
drivers, we went by them. And weactually driver change that for
50 ish. It just made sense.
Better sense for appealing. Andwhen we driver change, Dave said
we had a four and a half minutegap to do the driver change.
They had some feeling issues andsome redheads. So at that point,

(12:04):
Lauren was in the car. He'slike, Can I go can I go? And
they were having some issueswith some redheads. This is one
of the only pits we didn't havea tower at and like a redhead
was seized up or something likethat on the dump can and they
wanted to get enough gas in it.
But Shannon, or actually waswailing at that point. He ended
up passing us in the driverchanged error. Then Lauren

(12:27):
pretty much peeled out rightafter

him. And then did they had trouble before
Loren? You know, Loren actuallytook over took them,

right. I think it was I mean, it was pretty,
pretty sad. I mean, like within1515 minutes of Loren driving
they they must have hitsomething and popped a tire as
Loren got around them. And wedidn't see him anything after
that. I think it was they madeit probably about 500 miles in
the race and I think they brokethe rear output of the car.

(12:58):
Yeah. You know, our whole gameplan was just to drive smart.
Don't hit any big holes, youknow, drive, just keep a good
car.

I think it paid off. And Loren is great in a
desert race. He's very goodrocks. He'll tell you. His
Achilles heel was rocks Well,I'll have them have solid rocks
in the human, though some of thewashes have some pretty nasty
stuff. And I'm,

well I didn't pre run Lorens part but I think he
had some rough stuff back therebecause they were complaining
about they had all that, youknow, down by San Felipe which
is pretty rough. He did take outa driveshaft again so I don't
think he can go out and go toany race without putting a new
driveshaft in. Well, I've

heard him say something about he had
experimented with some carbonfiber stuff, you know, sometime
last year and he was shreddingthose. So I think he's back to
non carbon, right?

Yeah, he's backing on carbon. But this
drive shaft he didn't actuallyhe didn't actually hit some with
it. It was just a we wereplanning to grease it every 250
somehow when I went to sleep,but it got passed up on the
grease trucks out a little moreplunged in a typical desert
truck. So we try and keep thedriveshaft greased and it was
just getting a little hot onLord so he had a chair pull over

(14:16):
and change it.

Gotcha.

Another funny story as he ended up getting
stuck out in the desert, leavingthe pit. I think it was right
after the driveshaft changeactually. He got he sunk the car
right to the axles, right infront of the pit truck, but I
don't know if it was his faultor not, but

he just stopped on soft sand. And then wooded it
to pull away?

Well, the story is, so earlier in the night,
they broke a CV boot and sandI'd got up into the upper CV on
one side of the front and theyended up cutting the driveshaft
or the CV axle out so one of thefront drives is out and We're
running an RV in the truck. Soyou just run open. Yeah. So

(15:04):
we're running it open, which isessentially two wheel drive at
that point. So he pulls in forthe drive shaft and Dave tells
them, you know, well actually,Dave's telling them where to
pull into the drive shaft but itturns out that Dave is pulled in
and got stuck. So that's wherehe told Loren to go. So Dave,
Daves Chase truck was , wasalready stuck. He says, Loren,

(15:27):
just pull right over here nextto me because that's what we're
gonna do the driveshaft chainbecause I'm not going anywhere
else. When Lauren tried toleave, he was on to arrive and
just sunk it.

Oh, terrible.
Okay, so I did see. I did seepictures of the chase truck
sock. I didn't realize that thatwas the whole story that you
guys did a pit during that too.
And I did know that you guys hadto cut that that half shaft off
you know in between the two CVSin that seemed to be the right
way to get right. I mean, areason pull everything apart
when

Well, our whole game plan but the front end was
dependent and goes wrong. Justcut it out. I think Loren must
have hit something and shovesrocks up into the CD booth to
cut it out. But you know, cutthe boot was the inboard one or
the outboard? the inboard CV,someone on the cars a full bump.
That CV is actually pretty closeto the ground and it could rocks

(16:22):
and everything could fly up inthere. Yep. So they ended up
cutting it out. Our plan wasjust on bolted, which was
basically cut the boots and thenjust stick an impact in there.
And you can unbolt it, you know,five minutes, but cutting works
to just sling grease everywhere.
They get outside the car. Oh,there's grease everywhere. It's
a race car.

Well, man, congratulations. I mean one
another. There's a lot ofjealous people on this deal
that. Yeah, it's your first timein Baja. And you win the 1000 in
your class. That's, uh, thatsays something.

I that's Yeah, it's pretty amazing. You know,
well, actually that car andbeing met for two for two in
Baja, because we won the king ofBaja last year. Car two are in a
race. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cars,two for two in Mexico. So kind
of a bummer. We're going to becutting it up and using it as a
pre runner pretty soon.

You just build other ones. I know. I know how
you work. I know. I know howMitch works as well. You guys
just keep cranking them out. Andthen and then we'll don't talk
about your single seater. Butyou're been that you've been
racing the last, you know, eightweeks or so. We'll talk about it
here in a little bit. Becausethat's a there's a lot going on
with that. nationals. We talkedat Nationals. You missed, you

(17:41):
know, winning that race by 30seconds.

Yummy. was a it was in the 20s or 30s? Um, yeah,
it was. Well, I lost. I think Ilost four races this year in
under 30 seconds, which is kindof a bummer. That's that

was that was the number four.

Yeah, but I mean, you can't win them all that, you
know, some of them, we alwayslook back and like, what do we
do here? What do we do here? Anda lot of them is just like, you
know, this is what we did. Andit was our fault. But, you know,
it's tough on some of thoseraces with lap traffic, it just
it plays a huge part. Eric justwon that race. I mean, I just
couldn't pass the lap trafficthat was ahead of me.

Well, in Bleiler, you know, blow in the
infield, double that confusionand how, you know, he ends up
throwing away the nationalchampionship on a and navigate
and navigation air?

Yeah. You know, that's one thing. The focus of
racing is, when you're focusedso hard on racing, sometimes you
make those bad judgments or badjudgment calls, like, Can I go
around the soft finish? Did Inot go on the Start finish? That
race is kind of confusing, but Ihave my guys, you know, they're
like, I come out of those woods.
And it's like, did you make sureyou go around the start finish

(18:59):
and then you went around thestar finish. Now you're heading
to the woods or now you'reheading to there. I mean, there,
we just don't take any chancesand that sort of thing. I mean,
I just the more information tothe driver, the better because
the driver is really focused,you know, on racing. So if the
stuff comes up on you reallyquick, and it's just a split

(19:21):
second turn right, turn left,you know, it's just you have to
have somebody there to help youdo that stuff.

And he got a bunch of got some people in the
UTV race. I don't know if it gotanybody in the MC race, but when
how big

people every year and I'm just like, how did these
people do it? And I could, youknow, one of these days it might
even get me. I hope not. Yeah,but I mean that race was was
pretty cool. I mean, it was, youknow, the new car is working
great. It's just, you know, whenit comes down to it. I think we
had about a three minute lead onEric going into the woods. I

(20:00):
knew I could hold the same paceas him through the woods. So I
did go into that lap. They toldme about a three minute lead, I
could hold the same pace. And Iwould win the race. No problem.
But you know, with lap traffic,I just got held up probably
about three minutes, three and ahalf minutes. And that was it.
It was enough to take it out.
Yeah, I ended up going up thatwaterfall thing and sliding

(20:20):
backwards behind the guy. And

oh, that was horrible that that 30 degree or
40 degree up to your right outof the creek.

They kind of go out of a creek and you know, you
start going up the hill, youkind of go up this rock face and
go back around. And you know, alot of these guys don't hit the
stuff with speed. And if youfollow too close, I really hate
following people. But whenyou're trying to pass people,
sometimes you have them alonguntil it opens up. But, you
know, it should be nice thatthese guys would just try to

(20:54):
move out of the way since thereare a whole lot down. You know
what I mean? It's just, you

know, hold up the leaders.

Yeah. I mean, a couple people told me I just got
to start using the front bumpermore nuts. That's my plan for
this year. It's just, I justhave to it just cost me too many
races to not use the frontbumper.

Well, there's everybody's warning right there.
You just put it out there. Yeah,I'll start hitting people. But I
mean, but but let's just be veryserious and honest about this.
The the fun, it is fun for you.
But the business side of it isyou had four, four times this
year, you were out of firstplace by less than 30 seconds.
Four times.

Yeah. Well, the first two I definitely lost to
Lauren, it was new car setup andstuff like that. But the second
two, well, the last one wasdefinitely lab traffic. And this
the the one in the lab wasdefinitely lab traffic, but it
was also some errors on our pitside of things. You know, we
were just trying to keep thatthree minute cap. So they had me

(21:51):
going really slow for threelaps. Guys, were just saying,
you know, go slow, go slow, goslow. And then they weren't
keeping track of the Gomezbrothers who are coming up
pretty quick behind me. And bythe time I got the call on the
last lap, which laps were taken,you know, I think I did a lap
there and 16 minutes. By thetime they told me on the last

(22:14):
lap, I had to make up twominutes. It just wasn't
possible. I think it waspossible. But I just got hung
up, you know, by a guy that wasa lap down and pretty fast guy.
But he was, you know, 80% byspeed, making a bunch of dusts
and I just couldn't take thechance. Yeah, I couldn't take
the chance to get so tight thereto get around people. It just

(22:36):
took me it took me four or fivemiles to get around them. And
then by that time, I can't makeup two minutes. Well, so let's
let's let's talk about Paul,

you know, let's talk about who you are outside
of the racing world. And thenwe'll we'll go through some
stuff. And then we'll circleback to racing. But currently,
you know, you're sitting tonightyou you're over in Park City,
Utah, where you live a familybut you grew up in Alaska,

right? Yeah, I was born in Fairbanks, Alaska,
lived in a little town about 100miles south of there called
Delta junction, Alaska, right onthe Tennessee River. Alaska is
amazing place growing up. I wentto school as this in the same
grade as my older brother. So myolder brother was a year older
than me, but due to difficultieswith my mom not being able to

(23:22):
drive a car and my dad workingup in the oil fields. It was it
just made sense for him topostpone in the same grade.
Okay. You know, he was five andI was four and we went to
kindergarten and we went all theway through high school and
delta. You're from a pretty bigfamily to I think you know, you

(23:43):
you've only six sisters, twobrothers, or Yeah, right. Yeah,
I got my mom and dad. They stilllive up in delta junction. My
mom runs a little restaurant upthere. I have six sisters and
two brothers I Lydia, myyoungest Stephanie, BB, Anna,
Esther, and Claudia, who isolder than me. And then I got a

(24:05):
younger brother, Luke, and myolder brother, ape, who I went
to school with. We're all spreadout now. But most of them still
live up in Alaska. You have aplace up there now, don't you?
Yeah, we ended up buying a placethat I actually when I was about
13 or 14, it was a big huge logplace on this big piece of
property. But I actually peeledthe logs for and sanded the logs

(24:28):
when I was, you know, going tohigh school and building. And
the guy ended up dying probablysix or seven years ago and we
ended up buying the place. Sothat's kind of right, right in
between my wife's house wherethe house where my wife grew up
in the house where I grew up. Soit's kind of it's kind of cool
to go back there and relax.
It's, it's on a creek on a riverand we got about 154 acres or so

(24:52):
up there. So it's pretty cool togo out there and, you know, do
whatever you want.

Yeah, and now I mean, living in Park City I saw.
Look, you know, looking at yourstuff that you have on Instagram
that you guys had a you guyswere getting ready for a race
chase trucks in the driveway ina moose walks like, like I think
it was like Mitch, I think Mitchis like standing on a chase
truck and then like the moosejust like walks by him.

Yeah, we're all going up in Alaska, we used to
moose. They don't really scareme or bother me. Moose were
everywhere if they're there likedeer. But down here in Utah, in
general, they're not around asmuch but up where we live. We're
kind of up on this ridge. And wesee moose probably at least once
a week. And I've got pictures offive loose at one time in my

(25:42):
backyard. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah.

So as I was walking in the room here to, to
get on the phone with you andget this going tonight. I tell
my wife, you know, oh, who areyou interviewing? And I said you
all horschel You know what? Helives in Park City. And we're
sitting here, we're bookingspring break. Our kids actually
now have a two week spring breakcoming up. And it was we're
gonna fly to Salt Lake no matterwhat. But it was between Park

(26:10):
City and Jackson Hole. And oncethe kids were shown all the
different activities, JacksonHole one out. So sorry, we're
not gonna come see you in March.
Or maybe we will? I don't know.
But yeah, the current plan is togo up to Jackson Hole. But Park
City was in the mix. And I waslike, Oh, yeah, yeah. So Paul
lives in Park City. I looked atthe kids I go, he has a ski lift

(26:32):
in his backyard. He installedhis own ski lift.

And they're like, What? Who has that? I'm like,

we have 175 foot zip line in my backyard,
but not a ski lift. So tell meabout this. Your place there in
Park City with a ski lift? How

cool is that?
Well, we don't quite have theski lift up. Yeah, that's,
that's always been the dream ofmine. Since I was I was into
snowboarding. So I always wantedto give my kids that experience.
But it's always been like adream of mine to have a ski left
in the backyard. And we ended upbuying this piece of property on
a big hill. So we ended uppicking up two rope toes this

(27:07):
summer. And we got one of themin, we still gonna put the cable
on it and I'm doing somemodifications to the electric
motor right now to get it towork. And the second one, I just
put ball racing and I mean, it'sjust, it's just too time
consuming. We physically had togo clear lift lines and you
know, ski trails. So I wasrunning an excavator up in there

(27:29):
just pretty much opening themountainside up just to make
this happen. So it'll be Yeah,then winter happens. So now we
got snow on the ground. So we'llhave the one ski lift done in
running this year. But thesecond one will be probably next
year before we get it in.

I'm inviting myself already. It was

gonna be a fun time. I got a I got a snowcat
too I got a little pre nofsnowcat that we bought so we can
go out and you know, they'lljobs, whatever you want to do.
So yeah, I want to send you I'llsend you down on a innertube

what that works. Yeah, well, I want to
talk about your, your snowcatschannel. For sure. So we did get
ahead. Yeah, so so your wife andyou you both grew up in delta
junction, which is you know,half about what halfway between
Fairbanks and anchorage? Um, I'd

say it's a little close to that quarter quarter of
the way because it's where about100 miles to Fairbanks and about
350 to Anchorage wasn't that farby the by the roadway, you know,
road miles. But so

that was my next question. How much did you
fly? Basically, everyone says ifyou live in Alaska, you just fly
everywhere.

I didn't fly anywhere till I was probably 18
or so or 20. I mean, we droveeverywhere. We just didn't leave
Alaska. So basically, when Igraduated school when I was 17,
and my brother was 18, we hoppedin a car, and we drove to Utah,
we didn't know a soul in Utah,much less than the lower 48. And

(29:08):
we're just two kids in a car.
And we we looked at magazines,and we were like, We were all
into snowboarding. So we lookedat all these, it was before
internet and all this stuff. Youknow, this is early 90s, you
know, late.

So like, outside magazine, and well like
snowboarding magazines, or like,

we would just look at the stats of the list
like, Oh, this gear has, youknow, 3000 Bert, Oh, this one
has, you know, gets this muchsnow. So you just, you know, it
was all about the statistics andwe're just like, okay, we're
going to Utah. So we just hoppedin a car didn't have much else
to do you know, we well crazy.
Then it goes. I worked allsummer and he did too. But I was
17 and he was 18. So I cut outlike I got this job that I

(29:48):
wasn't supposed to have but Ipaid a lot of money and they
didn't ask me how old I was. Sowe had a big pile of cash. So we
just you know We're moving toUtah. So we just drove down to
Utah. Was that 1994 1994? Yeah,it was pretty crazy. I mean, we
were just two kids. I mean, nowlooking back at some of the

(30:09):
stories, and I mean, there'sone, we moved to Utah. And we
didn't know anything about Utah.
You know, we've never beenoutside of Alaska. So we go,
because then we, it says SaltLake City. So we go to Salt Lake
City, when we start trying tofind a place to live. So we find
this, you know, rundown motellike 700 South State Street,

(30:35):
we're staying at, you know,Tulsa was pretty nice. But it
was just like this little, youknow, one story like roach
motel. Like it was definitely aroach motel.

Like, holding hands,

right? We didn't even know the only the only clue
we got was we were trying torent a house. And we had all
this money, but we didn't haveany credit cards. We didn't have
any, you know, references oranything. It was just a couple
kids, right? So nobody would runus a house. And finally, this
one lady, she told us she waslike, You know what? I'm not
gonna rent you this house. Butlet me give you a hint. Don't

(31:10):
put that hotel on yourapplication, because nobody's
gonna rent your house if yourstate.

Fair enough. So that's good advice. Yeah.

Yeah. So I mean, just, we're just two kids. You
know, it's just, it's justcrazy. Looking back at that. We
made it all work, but it's agreat story. So

what was the first job you guys got? What did
you guys do when you first gotdown here?

To the lower 48?
Well, when I was 17, he was 18.
That summer, we worked asfirefighters. So in firefighting
paid pretty good back then. Andthen when we moved to Utah, I
got a job as a lift operator atSnowbird. And ram left over
there just allowed us to go wewere just into snowboarding. So

(31:58):
whatever it took to gosnowboarding and be picked
Snowbird as we never been there.
But it was just, you know,statistically a good place. So
we just started goingsnowboarding there. You know, so

you were always you're always in a snowboard.
But I know you were, you know,based on how you are today.
You've kind of always been inanything with a motor. Right?

I've been in a motors. I think it was about
2000. Or sorry, 1984. And whenmy dad bought he came home with
a Honda Big Red Three Wheeler. Idon't know if you remember
those? Oh, yeah, murdermachines.

Absolutely.
nosis, the suspension was thetires.

There was no suspension in the back and it
had low range in it. It had thehigh low, you know, shaft drive.
It was like, awesome. So Istarted driving that when I was
seven years old. It was becauseno one else like to drive. Like
my brother, my older brother andolder sister didn't want to die.
They're like Paul, you drive. Itwas like, Okay, I like to drive.
So I'll drive. Alright, but Iended up getting hit by a car,

(32:56):
broke my leg that was sevenyears old. I didn't know what I
was doing. But ever since then,I was just into into motors and
into motorcycles. I probablystarted driving motorcycles when
I was 10. You know, we didn'thave much money. So it was we
just had cheap dirt bikes thatwe could, you know, pick up for
$500 or whatever. And we always,we always tried to modify them

(33:17):
to go, you know, we always, youknow, lifted other people's
bikes. And likewise, this guy,you know, he's got this bike,
it's so much faster. So we wouldjust try and modify our bikes to
be faster, you know, becausethey're always the Dual Shock
bikes versus, you know, the monoshock bikes back in the day, but
we'd always put bigger shocks onI remember on my Three Wheeler

(33:37):
cutting the whole front end offof it and putting putting shocks
on it. You know, motorcycleforks on the front end badly
when I was 13 years old. Just abetter suspension, you know, go
faster. Solving problems. Yeah.

What year did you get into snowmobiles, where
you're already down? You'reliving in Utah by snow,
snowmobiling? Or was thatactually something that you guys
you were around in Alaska?

That was around so billing in Alaska, but you
know, I couldn't really I nevergot a snowmobile trails probably
about 13 years old, just becausethey were too expensive.
Finally, my parents bought me Iused LBL ended up blowing the
motor at work, not just workingon it a lot. But it was a good
project. And I didn't reallyAlaska, everybody thinks Alaska
have as like big huge mountainsand stuff. But where we grew up

(34:25):
was more flatlands. The bigmountains were there but the
access was just too hard to getto. So we just rode snowmobiles,
you know, in the fields andstuff like that. But I didn't
get into mountain snowmobilingtill I moved down to Utah was
down here and we wanted to goout and go snowboarding up in

(34:45):
the bigger mountains behind theski laughs And I was like, well,
let's just get us you know,snowbell so we got into
snowmobiling that way. It kindof back into snowmobiling that
way. And you know, having thesnowboarding background of like,
let's go down the chute. Youknow, we got snowmobiles when I
was like, let's go up the chute,you know. So it was like, there

(35:05):
was a whole new whole newballgame to try.

And just like rock crawlers that like break a
trail for the first time theyget a name the trail, you've
done some shoots, some prettygnarly climbs, and you've got to
name some climbs.

Yeah, it's, you know, we broke a lot of climbs
down here in Utah, up in Canada,even to and it's, it's pretty
amazing where these slides willgo. I mean, most people won't
even. They don't even look at itup at the mountainside actually
see the shoe because theirsnowmobiles can't even go up
there. It's kind of like rockcrawling, like, if you are

(35:38):
extreme Rock Crawler, you lookat different stuff, you know
what I mean? Whereas if you're atrail Wheeler, you don't look at
the extreme rock on the side ofthe trail and try and get your
buggy over it. But that's kindof where we took snowmobiling
was into that extreme area oflike, shoots you know, we went
on.

I mean, we pretty much for three or four
years, it was fine. Every shootand climate there was in Utah,
Nevada, everywhere. Obviously,you always need more horsepower.
So then that parlayed into youdoing some work developing some
turbo kits, because you can'tleave well enough alone, knowing

about there's always a Yeah, a horsepower.
Like, I want to do that. But myhead is holding me back. So it's
like, what do we do? Well, let'sturbo charge jet. I was into
like turbo cars, when I wasprobably I think I was 17 or so
I got a turbocharged car. RXseven. And so I was, you know,

(36:38):
always trying to turn off theboost on that thing. And when I
got into snowmobiling, I'm like,man, why don't they just put a
turbo on this thing. So we endedup turbo sleds and getting you
know, 400 plus horsepower out ofthem. And they pretty much
they'll scare you what they'llclimb up, it is

unbelievable.
Anything you can hang on to aslong as you can hang on to it,
it'll go up, right?

probably still gonna ride it. So you still got
to have the skills to navigatethis machine out there. But
it's, and then when it does,when you don't make it, it's
pretty much a yard sale at thebottom and you'll be sliding out
of your butt pick it up partsall the way.

So that's a lot of I know, I know, talking to
Tom ways about this. You too,have kind of bonded over that,
like you guys have a lot ofcommonalities. I mean, he was
from Pennsylvania, ended up atsquaw and then ended up in
southern Alaska, doing similar,you know, the stuff that you
were doing in Utah. He was doingAlaska, even though you came
from Alaska came to Utah. Imean, that's kind of cool to

(37:40):
have a guy inside over for thatyou guys can sit in, you know,
rap session about that type ofstuff, right?

Yeah, Tom's always been cool. And then I
kind of knew a friend of Tom'sfrom my snowboarding days, named
Chris Coulter. And Chris knew Iwas building this ultra parkour.
And he was like, Well, I knowthis guy, Tom, that raises old
four. So Chris would be tellingTom, you know, hey, this guy
Paul's build this car. And Tomwas like, you know, thinking
like, but you know, what he wasthinking, but then I show up to

(38:12):
this race. And Tom is Tom wasthere and he was like, Oh,
you're Paul. And he's like, Oh,you got a you know, you got ifms
car. So, we kind of bonded rightaway. It was like, you know, he
was into the same stuff I wasinto, you know, up in the
mountains, snow. He was on skis,I was on snowboard. That was
always, you know, I think he's,he's the same as me. And that

(38:34):
sort of thrill seeking of goingdown the mountain faster, you
know, hit the jump.

I think you two are amazing, but I think you're
not jobs. And that's okay withme. Like, I think you guys are
badass is. But you're stillcrazy. As I'll get out. I think
as I buy, if I grew up in wasaround the same stuff. As you
guys, we'd be, you know, birdsof a feather flock together,
like, oh, you're going up there?
Okay, I guess I'll go up it andthe next, you know, you're,

you're there.
Well, that's how it works. Imean, you're just pushing the
one. It's just evolution, youknow, you see one guy do a 360
and you want to do a 540. Youknow, it's, it's just, that's
just the next step. It's tryingto be better than the other guy
or do that. You know, the tricka little better. Do you know,
race a little faster than theother guy? It's, you know, I
guess that's how I've alwaysbeen. Since I was young. It's

(39:21):
just, I guess it's justcompetition, you know?

So you lose four races this year by less
than 30 seconds. So we'regetting the goals up to like
lose four races by less than 10seconds. That

No. Great. The goal is always to win. But
sometimes, sometimes car breaks,sometimes you just can't win.
You know, sometimes there'sother problems, but you try and
win as many as you can. Andthat's, that's 100% of the goal
was to come in, you know, numberone spot and definitely don't

(39:55):
want the number two spot andthat's the worst.

Yeah, that's your mind. Yeah. I love your
mindset on that. That's theabsolute right mindset to be to
be a winner there and besuccessful. I'm gonna
mispronounce these, but I knowyou've got one. We talked about
snow machines or snowcats,hageland haglund.

How do you pronounce that? That's it,
that's a haglund it. So actuallyon three of them, but there is
that thing is, it's a militaryamphibious vehicle. So this all
goes back to growing up as akid. And there was a military
base that was located nearby andthese haglund would always be

(40:33):
driving around. Okay, and I justalways think of myself, like
that was like, you know, by nowhow to make some money. So I
ended up buying a couple that wehave up in Alaska, they're
really hard to find. Theybecause they look

like they look like Russian Arctic Circle types
type things but, but then theyhad like this little twist of
they look like you just see himlike normal on a ski mountain
anywhere in North America.

It's kind of a cool vehicle because it's all
mechanically driven. So two ofthem that I own have motor swaps
on them. And one still isfinished. I put a Ecotec 2.0
liter turbocharged motor, andthere, it makes 300 more yours
than a turbo 400 and basicallyruns the driveshaft out of the

(41:21):
turbo 400 into a divorcedtransfer case. Okay. And out of
the transfer case has a driveshaft that runs the back two
tracks. And then the driveshaftcomes out of the front of the
transformation runs the fronttwo tracks, okay, and so it's
four wheel or four track drive,which is kind of odd, but it's,

(41:43):
it makes it easy. It's like arock crawler. It's like a Jeep,
you know, like, you don't likethat motor while put a different
motor in it. So it's kind of acool vehicle in that regard. But
it does have its base restraintsthat you can only put so big of
a motor in there. It's not likeyou can just put, okay, let's
put this big block in there. No,it's an amphibious vehicle that

(42:04):
actually goes on water, land,dirt, snow that was made for the
US military, made in Sweden by acompany called haglund. Pretty
cool vehicle. We use them forhunting up in Alaska. And then
like inside,

like how many people can you get inside one?
Or plus gear or?

Low? It's a it's a 17 passenger vehicle. That's
what the straight of viewers

see. That's why it's

not huge, though.
It's, it's six feet wide.

Yes. They look small in your pictures.

Yeah, so it's six feet wide and about 23 feet
long, but it's the way themilitary designed. It was six
passengers in the front and the11 in the back. Okay, but it's
really, uh, it's pretty compactvehicle. But, I mean, you could
obviously get that many peoplein there. But it did the
capability of that vehicle ispretty, I mean, it can go across

(42:56):
rivers, I can go through snowthrough mud, that just, you can
pretty much go anywhere so whichis you know, pretty cool vehicle
in that regard.

Well, I like him. I was curious. I was
curious to hear exactly whatthey were and how they came to
be. And like how you ended Ididn't realize you had so many
of them, but that's evenawesome, too. That's that's

super cool.
Whenever I see one for sale andthey usually don't cost that
much money. Unless you buy likea fully refurbished one. But
whatever I see one or parts forsale. I just buy it just because
I there. You can't get thatstuff. That rare? Yeah. Well,
there's probably a few 100 ofthem around. But I mean, most
people just have them. They'renot selling them. They're, you
know, using them.

I saw Jason shear, you know, he had a he's
got a snowcat or maybe he hastwo snowcats. Now, like, I think
they're like four six passengerdeals that they they run around
their mountain area around Tahoeor I forget the name of

Yeah, Jason's got a little. He's got a little fire
call that. I think it's a spritethat it's also mechanical tight
drive. snowcat, this new snowcatwe bought as a full hydraulic
with a little turbo diesel motorin it. So it should be pretty
cool. The mechanical snowcatsyou can't really spin on a dime
with them because it's a it'smore like breaking one track.

(44:17):
Okay, but the haglund actuallydoesn't. It turns by
articulating the calves. We'reactually putting cutting breaks
in that one so you can put thebrakes on the tracks on the
laughter tracks on the right andtry to you know, maneuver it a
little better. Oh, that's cool.
Okay. Yeah, so we pretty muchdon't leave anything stock. No,

I know you don't. So we we have similar
stuff down here on the GulfCoast, but it doesn't see snow.
It's all for swamp and Marshand, and that stuff stuff where
you know you wouldn't use anairboat for, because it's not
airboat type terrain, but it's amud Gumbo and they dress drive
those things across the topbutton so like like the

(44:57):
telephone crews, the powerlinecrews That's what they drive.
There's a lot of them.

Yeah, that's, that's pretty much what we use
them in Alaska for becauseAlaska is loosening up there.
You're in the lowlands a lot.
Yep. So yeah, those things areamazing in the swamps. They just
cruise. They float, they haul alot of stuff. We go hunting, and
I bring all my sisters, nieces,nephews, I mean, they just, you
know, we go out 4050 miles withkids that are under two years

(45:23):
old, you know, just the full.
It's just a fun time.

So your wife, Dr. Hilary, you've known your
whole life.

I want to say not my whole life, but probably it's
hard to remember that far back.
But probably since I was six, aswe may be a little earlier that
but that's when I kind of movedover to her neighborhood area.
And we lived a couple milesapart, but there was probably
only like three houses betweenus here. And we pretty much rode
the bus together to school for,you know, 12 years or 10 years.

(45:56):
So yeah, we we didn't startdating until later in high
school. But yeah, we've beentogether 25 years and married
for 16. Now,

all that is congratulations. But what was
her thought process in in 94,when you and your brother loaded
up and move to the lower 48. Andyou left her? would she say
about that?

I don't know. I mean, I don't think it was, I
think it was tough, but it waslike, you know, winter is Alaska
are tough. They're just, she wasstill in school. So I had
graduated and it was like, Well,I'm gonna go down here and do
this because I'm not gonna situp here all winter. And she was
I think she was I think she wasokay with it.

I mean, that was you were 25 years ago, this.
But then she ends up comingdown, she ends up going to
college, and then med school andnow she's a pediatric ICU
doctor, which is amazing blowsmy mind.

I guess she works at primary Children's Hospital
here in Salt Lake. That's why wekind of live close to here, you
know, Park City area. But webasically, when she graduated
high school, she moved down toMalibu and went to school at
Pepperdine for four years. Andwe dated all through that. And
then she got accepted in theUniversity of Utah, and did our

(47:20):
med school here. And then shewas able to stay on with them.
And now she just works. hospitalhere. That's

awesome. Like, that's like, making the stars
align and everything working outperfectly. And you can't meet
that. That's

Yeah, we thought we were gonna have to do some
moving around. But that beingthat we could actually stay in
Utah. So yeah, it was it waspretty cool to be able to stay
here. I think she probably wouldhave liked to move but not not
against Utah. But for career.
Just stay in one place too longfor the stuff she does is I
guess it can be tough. I'm notyou know,

it's I don't know what your goals are. Right.
So is she is she an off roading?
Is she supports everything youdo, obviously. But if she into
the offered stuff or the any ofthe racing stuff,

she's not an offer. But I mean, we grew up
off road, basically. I mean, Igrew up both of us grew up with
no power, no phones untilprobably I was 14 when the
phones Shut up. So both of usgrew up no power, though. She
had no bathroom. So no, noshower. They had an outhouse

(48:26):
outside our house that hadrunning water when you started
the generator. But so we bothgrew up pretty off road ish.
Like, you know, I guess theycall it off the grid off the
grid. Yeah, yeah. So whoeverwants to live off the grid? You
don't want to do that. Because Itake a roommate. That's probably
beyond the grid. Well, now

and this is making sense. This is probably
why you can hold it for so longin our race cars, because you
grew up like that. You're like,Okay, I need to pee. But it's
minus 30. outside. I don't wantto bundle up to go the house.

Yeah, I don't know if it's that. We, I think,
but that's part of I mean,that's definitely something but
I don't know if it translatesinto racing. I think that's just
me being intense. But I thinkyou know, just growing up in
that situation of, you know,both of us growing up and
wanting to be better is whatkind of is brought us, you know,

(49:20):
to where we are,

man. No, it's amazing. Now, today, today, you
guys have two kids. You've got ason Matthew, and then a
daughter, Lizzie. And they'repretty amazing, right? You're
enjoying being being a father?

Definitely. You know, we didn't have kids for a
long time. And they kind of gotto that point where it's like,
well, I wanted kids and my wifedidn't actually want kids and
she was like, Well, if you wantkids, we better. You know, have
kids because I don't go too muchlonger to have these kids. Or I
don't you know, Vince I'm like,okay, you better try and have
some kids.

So here

we are. Having a kid at 40 is a is a pretty
Rough?

No, you're crazy earlier, like the
snowmobile and stuff. I just itwasn't all that it's like,
collectively crazy. I can'timagine at all, I mean, the baby
diaper stuff from memory andminor only, you know, 13 and
nine,

you know, so it's been amazing. But you definitely
want to do it in your lifetime.
And, I mean, it was justsomebody had to do it, we wanted
to do it, you know, but they'vebeen amazing. I mean, they're
definitely a lot of work. Buthaving a family, having that
support, having, you know, kidsrun up and hug you and, you
know, call you on the phone.

(50:36):
It's just, it's a part of life,I think you definitely need

experience. And so recently young being in Baja
you're away from so theywouldn't know where daddy went,
right?

Yeah, Lizzie, you know, she can barely choose
like, are you in Mexico? Butluckily, for now, or, you know,
nowadays we have, you know,technology like FaceTime. So
even in Mexico, they werefacetiming me every night, you
know, Daddy, what are you up towhen you come home? You know,

(51:07):
that sort of thing? You know,but they're amazing. I don't
know. Once you have kids, it'slike, how we live without them.
So no,

I agree with you.

I fully agree with you one before kids you
could live without or be orthere's like, well, I don't know
what kids are. But once you havethem, you're just like, Oh, we
should have kids 10 years ago.

You and I kind of brought this up when when
this was going when we werescheduled this union, you had to
make sure like that Hillary wasgoing to be home to take the
kids so would free you up to beable to do the call. And some
things like that. And like,yeah, it takes a village, but it
really takes us like scheduling,you need to have a wonderful
partner that supports you and,and you support her and you

(51:53):
know, everything that goes onthere. And yeah, you guys are
clearly doing it. Right.

Yeah, it's it's definitely a lot of scheduling.
You know, before I was like, Oh,I can go snowmobiling. And you
know, come home at 10 at night.
And now it's like, oh, my wife'sgot to work tonight. Or Oh, my
wife was you know, gets off atfive. So I got to be home. Take
the kids from three to five oryou know, it's it's definitely a
lot more responsibility, butit's definitely worth it. But
you definitely lose some of thatfreedom that I asked for. That

(52:20):
definitely as

well. Oh, yeah.
You'll tell it you'll have tosorry, you know, or Sheila says
this, Hillary, thank you for forfreeing Paul up for me tonight.
And for everybody else that'sgonna listen to this. This is
awesome. Yeah.

Yeah, she's out the kids right now. I told her.
I told her I was like, I gotthis like interview thing for a
couple hours. And she looked atme how to where and she's like,
Okay, do you need me to helpyou? That's like, probably, but
yeah, I

don't think she was solved our speaker
microphone issue. That was thatwas too much. I mean, it's
working out right now. I can seeyou but we're recording across
the cell phones.

It's technology technology today.

I mean, I skipped something and I want to
go back to it. Like DavidHartman and Nick Nelson. They're
into the mini jet boats. JTTaylor just pulled the trigger
on a mini jet boat Cody Wagnerhas a mini jet boat. I really
want one.

I don't really think I have a place to ride one
that's why I haven't really bitthat off. But you've got one I
got mine's a 14 butter but it'sa little bit so it's a little
bigger. I actually got some CADdrawings I'm working on the bill
mail and mini jet boat because Igot some ideas on how to make it
better but I actually didn't getinto jet boating until we bought

(53:38):
this place up in Alaska and thenwe bought a boat just as a kid
we couldn't afford about butAlaska is it's an amazing place
but there is no roads accessanything you just got a couple
main highways no doubt in thestates we have roads that go you
know old mining roads or farmingroads or you know access roads

(54:01):
everywhere. I mean there there'sroads within five miles pretty
much everywhere down here inAlaska as soon as you get off
the main road, there's nothingso a jet boat is freedom. It's
like exploring a highway thatyou've never driven out. So we
go up there and we just takethese rivers well I got a river

(54:21):
right on the back of my house weactually dug in a boat ramp
there so I can just load theboat right behind the house and
then just dock it beyond thehouse. We can just go out and
explore you know explore thestuff that I always wanted to
explore when I was a kid likewhat's over that hill?

Yeah made notes like like Paul is a guy that
should have a mini jet boat andthen a bat you know do my
background on you. Sure enough.
You already had a mini jet boatbecause I was I think I put in
the notes like are you intothose would you be up with one?
No, you already have one Got it?

Yeah, they're they're a lot of fun that just
but it's just like anythingelse. It's it's a lot of fun,
but it's got to have buddies.
with them, and they, they're ourwork do so that's the biggest
thing is you got to have buddieswith them, because you're gonna
get yourself in places. And ifyou break down in those places,
you're not gonna have any help.

(55:13):
The guy's got a big boat, hecan't go up in there. For the
most part, Jet boats are just away of travel up in Alaska. So
you can definitely see a lotmore country. Another way of
travel up there is airplanes,but I kind of decided to put
that on the back burner for alittle bit. It seems like a lot
of guys have gotten out of ultrafor have gotten into airplanes.

(55:34):
And I'm like, Man,

I'm just not a pilot. I don't think that's I
don't think that's what I aspireto do. Even Dave Coles talked
about getting a plane. Oh,really? Dave? Yeah. Why?

Yeah. Yeah, maybe. The I was all going to
Holland, until about a year ago,when a friend of ours passed
away from crashing his airplanedown on my lap. But oh, Carol.
Yeah, Kevin. But I mean, hepretty much had the airplane I
wanted to buy. I think Kevin,guys like Kevin, guys like me, I
think it's, I don't know ifairplanes are a good idea.

(56:06):
Because I think we tend to usean airplane not as a mode of
transportation, but as a mode ofthrill. I think that could end
up bad. So I decided to, youknow, kind of hold off an
airplane, maybe till I get alittle older, or, you know, a
little wiser. I don't know. ButI think me getting an airplane
and flying up, you know, 2000feet is gonna be really boring.

(56:29):
So I'm going to want to like,see if I can go down and buzz
creek or, you know, go rockvase, or whatever it is. It's
not gonna be you just don't havesecond chances. or play.

I think you were your heads head is that is
in the right place on anythingin life on that is that you have
at least a self awareness andthe self respect of what your
mind wants to do and what we'lldo and what could happen

that you've been smart. Yeah, I just choose to
not put myself in that position.
You know, it just well with kidstoo. It's just, you know, I want
to see him grow up. It's just,it's just not worth it to take
an airplane out and try and dosomething dumb in it. crash it
and die, you know, right? Oh,

yeah. Yeah, yeah. Kevin Carroll is also as a
I mean, as it does a bad deal.
That was that was a bad deal.
And he, I mean, now there was aloss for the community. His red
dot chassis says red cars, or, Imean, they're just billy goats.

They're just amazing. Billy Goats. Yeah, like
Kevin was just, I mean, he wasthe same. I just like a Kevin
and just, you know, I understandwhat he was trying to do, or
just, he was trying to take hisred cars, like, places where
people couldn't take his cars.
And he's trying to do the samewith airplanes. And I don't
think I think you can do it fora long time. But, you know,
there's so much variation in anairplane, like, you know, an

(57:53):
extra 200 pound passenger in theback or full of fuel or not full
of fuel or the wind. Whereas acar, you're just grounded.
You're, it doesn't matter aboutall that stuff. And it's, you
could hit a downdraft orsomething airplane and, you
know, when you're taking chancesof you could easily not make it.
Or the other day, you made it Noproblem.

Right? Yeah, wow. No, I can see that. I think
your head's in the right spot,man. So job wise, you are,
you're an exploration drilling,come in the oil field a little
bit you you're at a companycalled Tony tech, and you've
been there 20 years now, ontime, drilled all over the world

(58:39):
now.

I started in the drilling business when I was 18.
So after the year, we moved toUtah, we would go back to Alaska
and the summers, that itobviously paid a lot more money
up there. So we got jobs. Andwhen I was 18, I got a job on a
drill rig. So I pretty muchworked for that company, from 18
to 29 ish. So 10 or 12 yearsago, I started just being a, you

(59:06):
know, a drill hand and worked myway up to being the Operations
Manager over you know, 20 drillrigs when I was you know, 2930.
And then it was a, it was moreof a family owned company. It
had that more family atmospherewas a family owned, but it just,

(59:27):
we were a smaller company, itwas, you know, didn't have that
Corporation feel to it. And itgot bought out by the second
largest drilling company in theworld. At that time. It was
instantly overnight, it justlike changed the whole feel of
the company. It was kind ofweird because I thought I'd
worked there for the rest of mylife. And then that happened and

(59:49):
it was just it was just adifferent atmosphere. So two
guys that I worked with for, youknow, those 12 years and I
decided to start our ownbusiness. Back in 2007, we
didn't have any money. But wedidn't know what we were doing.
We didn't even know anythingabout business, really, we knew
how to drill holes in theground. Right? But but we made

(01:00:12):
it work. And we were still asmall company we have about
anywhere from 50 to 70employees. And we have 11, drill
rigs, and we drill and we drillcore holes. And we drill, we
focus most of our stuff on thewestern US. And it's, it's more,
it's more Well, we're good atdeep core holes.

Wyatt Pemberton (01:00:35):
How deep Do you guys go?

Paul Horschel (01:00:37):
Because all we've drilled was 9200 feet. And
what's the temperature at thebottom of that hole? where it
was? I don't know exactly,because we don't really
temperature probe. But some ofthose holes that we do
temperature probe can get up tolike 180 ish, somewhere. But you
know, sometimes we've drilledsome geothermal holes that have
had higher temperatures thanthat. But most of the time, when

(01:00:59):
you drill deep, it starts to getwarmer, right? Or we're drilling
for minerals most of the time.
So it's they're not they don'treally care about the
temperature.

Is that something that you guys, you and
Lauren have had somecommonalities and ability to
have some discussions on about,you know, similar, similar
backgrounds? Lauren, working forcore labs for all those

years? Yeah, I think he was. I haven't talked
to him actually too much aboutwhat he I know, he was in the
oil field, but I think he hadquit by the time I was in the
ultra for, but he was in more torock technology and stuff like
that, I believe. 100% certain,but yeah, he's I mean, he's just
a hard working guy. There's, youknow, like me, that just has a

(01:01:45):
passion for racing. So, butobviously, I think he was just
working for somebody where notas an owner of a business.
That's right. So was when he gothe got to a point where he just,
you know, was able to just raisefull time, but I have other
obligations. I mean, keep theball rolling.

Yeah, that's, that's something else. But I
mean, you've drilled some,you've drilled some pretty cool
places, like, you know, and Ialways mess up the name of this
town, the name of this country.
Could I stop? Yeah, Kurdistan.
And what do you do over there?

I think I was over there for four or five
months, we were actually up atlike 14,000 feet near the border
of China. So Kurdistan isbordered by China, Afghanistan.
kazakstan. And I think that'sabout it. I don't know too much
about there over there. Butthat's just sketchy. So
typically, we'll be drillingarea like that. It's just, we're

(01:02:46):
just up in the mountainssomewhere drilling. It's not,
you know, we're not in town.
We're not. We're just out there.
Because you start showing up intown, you might get your head
chopped off. But right. Itwasn't that bad where we were
at, but we are there. Well, Iwas actually physically off the
job site in Kurdistan. Theythrew the president out, burn

(01:03:09):
the capital city. And so I go inthere, you know, for three
months did I go back out to flyout and then the whole city
burnt down and, you know,boarded out with burnt down
boarded up with plywood. That'sa crazy experience. I mean, it's
just

basically Detroit.

Yeah. I don't know I've ever been to Detroit,
but it probably somethingsimilar. was what I envy.

Yeah. And then you end up in Madagascar to
what, you know, we've all seenthe movie, the Disney Pixar
movies, Madagascar, but nowwe're talking about the real
country off the coast of Africa.

It was a pretty cool experience. I mean, I think
everybody should go to a thirdworld country before they're 25.
And I'm not talking aboutMexico. Oh, well, Mexico. It's
not I mean, there's, there'ssome bad stuff. And, you know,
the further down you go toMexico, but I think a lot of
people take it for granted whatwe have here, you know, but I

(01:04:07):
remember just getting off theplane in Kenya. And it was just
like, it was just an eye openingexperience to get there and see
how poor these people were. Wecame in there. We were trying to
start a big mine up for youknow, to make, you know, people
opportunities there. But it'sjust amazing. I mean, those
people are working for like acouple dollars a day. So I ended

(01:04:29):
up spending about seven, eightmonths over there and we
actually loaded up. And 124Vietnam was for drill rigs. A
log 518 cat logs scatter D sixcat with a winch on the back to
con axes, all the drillingequipment, and, like wood

(01:04:53):
chippers and enough gear to lastus seven, eight months. All on
one plane and this is a suitHuge, ugly Russian cargo jet.
It's a Russian cargo jet thatwas made to haul the Russian
Space Shuttle. And so the nose,the nose tips up in this plane
and the tail as a big ramp inthe back, and it's so big that

(01:05:16):
you could drive to, you know,bulldozers side by side all the
way through it. It's, it's justone big shell, a big, you know,
shell with big crane systeminside of it. But we basically
flew that thing that took fivedays to get over there, just
because it has to land for fuelevery four hours or something
like that.

Pass everything but a gas station.

Much the same thing? Well, we it was, it was a
cool experience, they were like,you guys want to weed out some
room, what is funny you guyswant to get in, we're like,
sure, man we're going in. So wefly on this plane, and it has
one window for the path in thepassenger compartment. That's,
you know, that's like, an eightinch window. And it's so high

(01:06:03):
off the ground, you can't reallysee anything until it's you
know, 200 yards out there.
Because you're on the upper partof the circle of the airplane
fuselage. So you couldn't tellyou couldn't really tell if this
airplane rumbled so much. Youcouldn't tell it this airplane
was flying and taking off, youknow, or taxiing down the runway
or anything. It just the wholeplane just rumbled. And it was

(01:06:25):
it was pretty crazy.

That's a blind faith, right? You said to have
some blind faith that this thingis actually gonna defy the laws
of physics and gravity and gothrough the air? Right?

Well, it's I mean, those guys do. I mean,
they, they really know theirbusiness. And they, I mean, it
had to land. And when we landedin Madagascar, it had to land
between, you know, midnight, andtwo o'clock in the morning, due
to air density, because therunway was too short. So they,
they go in there, and they havesomeone on the ground, checking

(01:06:59):
air density when this planelands. Because it's so big.
Yeah. So but it was pretty coolto most jobs like that, you
would have to, you know, put allyour stuff in containers and
ship it over by boat, and thentrying to deal with customs and
get all your stuff on a customsdisplay. We were just like

(01:07:20):
underground drilling in a week,you know, from Go Time, which
was a huge benefit to the clientto be able to get there, you
know, it was for a nickel mineand be able to get that mind
upon, you know, up and improvedbefore some other minds came up.

So how did you win a bid like that? or How did
you even go about gettingflagged up with a nickel mine in
Madagascar? How

does how does?
Well, this this was before whenI was working for, you know, not
my own company. But when I wasworking for the other company,
and it was, you know, it wasthey they were part of a mining
group. Okay, so they had kind ofa mining group and not mining
group needed to help. So it waslike, okay, we can do this, and
we'll do it. You know, you wantto show up there a week? Well,

(01:08:08):
but two weeks, we can do that.
But this is what it's going tocost because we got to rent this
airplane. Actually, is that sameairplane to go to her get them
to because it's actually prettybeneficial to get somewhere
fast. Versus

like the Pony Express. Right? That's like
overnight delivery with

your overnight delivery with a whole drilling
fleet. You know, you just showup and you buy some pickups when
you're laying on the ground andwork.

I feel like we should get into drug to gun
running. I feel like you'reflying around some countries
that are always at war. I feellike we you know, we've missed
we've missed our calling, youknow, desert racer gun runner,
you know, I feel like something

I try. I try and do legal stuff. Yeah, I do love
guns but it's crazy. Like youjust land and then you just I
mean we just start loading onsemis like no customs No,
nothing. I mean, if you wantedto bring guns, that's the way to
do it. I just remember Iremember landing there and you
know this old rickety semi showsup to load our stuff on and it's

(01:09:19):
the guy comes out you know,sandals on you know that are all
beat up and you know pants withholes in them and he starts
banging the pins out for theramps on the semi and he's got a
stick with a rock. You know,what some rope holding the rock
on there for a hammer. Andthat's that's what he's beaten

(01:09:40):
the pins out on. You know, it's

this just same thing, you know, cavemen used
10,000 years ago.

We're still there. It's crazy that you'll
see entire families there'sreally no gravel there. So
because it's on a big RockIsland, but you'll see these
rock quarries where thesefamilies will be Just be
chipping rock out of thismountain. And they pretty much
sweep, they'll chip out thesebricks are building houses,

(01:10:07):
they'll try it, you know, it's apretty crude brick. And anything
that's, you know, small enoughfor rock goes in the rock pile,
and then anything smaller thatgoes in the sand pile. And
you'll see these families justsmashing two rocks together,
sitting there cross legged andsmashing rocks together to make
smaller rocks. I mean, that'sessentially how poor that

(01:10:28):
country is just everything isdone by hand. It's, I mean, if
you go there for, you know, thetime that I stood there seven,
eight months, I may just go backto America, and you're just
like, so glad to be back. It's,

it's a kiss on the ground. And, you know, the
consumer economy that we havehere. And no matter whatever it
is, you you want, you can buy itif you if no one makes it, or
it's too expensive, you designit yourself, and you make it
yourself. You can

at least, you know, here, you could at least
work for something you could,you know, my motto has always
just been like, go out and workharder than the other guy. And
that's how you get ahead. There.
You could work as hard as youwant. And it doesn't get you
anywhere, because there'snothing to work. Well,

I think it's the same from for me, the saying
is work smart, not hard.

And, yeah, you definitely want to work smart,
but you want to, I shouldn't saywork hard, but like accomplish
more than, you know, just tryingto get more stuff accomplished.
And done in a day. And you know,at some point, you'll be further
ahead than the other guy.

You hope so when the dust settles right when
or when your sand pile settleson sand piles.

Well, the problem with the problem is with racing,
you're you're racing against allthose guys with the same thought
process. So it's like, you know,at work, if you got a job at
McDonald's or something new,like, okay, I'll just make more
burgers and that guy, that'd bepretty easy to do, but, and
you're going racing against thebest guys in the world. I mean,
all those guys have that samemindset. And it's it's pretty

(01:12:02):
tough. I know, everybody wantsto win. That's, you know, nobody
wants second at all? Well,there's probably 10 guys and
ultra for that, you know, welook at as true competitors. You
know, there's a few guys outthere that are a little slower,
maybe just, you know, there forthe experience. But there's
probably 10 maybe 15 guys,depending on the race that are

(01:12:25):
just in it for number one, youknow, and it's and they're all
in the, you know, same thoughtprocesses. You know, me? So it's
hard the same? It's tough. Yeah,yeah, we're all wired the same.
We're just all try not to hitthat rock and destroy the car.
And we'll show this is

a great place to jump into this. You know,
you've seen where you're fromyou Alaska to Utah to how you
ended up in the drilling, youknow, in the world and your job
and in going worldwide andexperience and all that. How did
you end up in ultra for you'vebeen racing ultra for for what,

(01:13:04):
six years now? Five years, somesomewhere in there.

I started racing in 2014. So it's just been one
of those dreams as a kid. But Ialways looked at those
magazines. I mean, it was alwaysmagazines back when we were
kids. You probably know me.
Yeah, the same. Older she was.
Yeah. So it was alwaysmagazines, they would look and
be like, Oh, these deserttrucks, you know, like these
guys racing the ball with 1000.
You know, that was always like,these guys racing down bar, like

(01:13:31):
these guys racing event. And itwas always like, in the back of
my head, like, I want to do thatsomeday. So I mean, finally,
when I was able to go do that,like, financially, I decided
that it probably wasn't the bestto jump right into a trophy
truck. I mean, that was my plan.

(01:13:52):
But it was like, Okay, if I jumpinto this trophy truck, who's
gonna come down and help youfeel this trophy truck and who's
gonna come out, you know, how amI gonna go 1000 miles because I
don't know Dave call at thismoment in time. He's probably
helped me out to go racing. So Iwas like, Okay, let's ultra
forward start now. Now, she hada race in Utah. So I went over,

(01:14:16):
just check it out. And I waslike, Okay, these guys have real
race cars. It seems likesomething I can maybe get into.
And then, you know, Joe, I likeit. I could kind of use it as a
stepping stone or something tobaja racing. But so I kind of
been into since I startedbuilding the truck. Oh, I had a
guy's company start building thetruck in 2012. But it took him

(01:14:39):
two years to build it. So Ididn't race it until my first
race was actually NorCal rockracing because I wanted to
qualify for King of the hammersin 2014. And it was you have to
qualify into King hammers unlessyou wanted to go into LC q. So
they finished the truck. NoLike, you know, obviously not

(01:15:02):
finished that well, and it wasjust, you know, put those bolts
in let's go racing in NorCal andended up winning the race that
won like 5000 bucks and won therace by qualified for getting
the hammers. I'm like, like, itwas pretty easy to race against
these guys, but little I knowsnot that easy.

Yeah, it was Beginner's luck, right? Well, I

mean, it just wasn't done many good racers
down there at that time racing.
So, you know, you show up theking of the hammers, and it's
just like a huge eye opener oflike, well, I don't even know
how to rock crawl. So what am Idoing in these rocks? I mean,
no, because I don't come from arock crawling background or
anything like that. I just, Ilike to drive fast. But so I'm

(01:15:46):
still trying to learn the rocks.
But you read terrain prettywell. I think that's, that's
probably my best attribute toracing is train reading. And I
think that I get that from Ithink it's train reading and
holding momentum. And I think Iget a lot of that from, you
know, snowmobiling, evensnowboarding, you know, trying

(01:16:08):
to keep your speed throughspots, and trying to like a
train or where how I can hitthis without, you know, blowing
up my legs, or, you know, tryingto go up this jump or, you know,
just reading train like that andtry and find the smooth spots.
So I think that that definitelyhelped me a lot racing,
especially an ultra for racing,because it's pretty much for me,

(01:16:29):
it's pretty much looking,choosing two lines for my two
tires. This is how I go aboutracing, is, you know, what am I
gonna put that tire on? What amI gonna put that tire on, but

right at the rocks, I kind of get confused.
Because it's a big puzzle. Andyou're trying to solve it at
speed as it's coming at you,which is fine.

Just, I think when I first started racing, I
was just like, I'll just hitthis thing super fast and try
and blow through, then, youknow, rear diff hangs on it. So
there's actually a lot oftalent. And it takes a lot of
skill to go to rocks, andespecially at speed. And it just
takes seat time, plainly,

cleanly threw rocks at speed everywhere.

The rocks are speed. I mean, it's just rocks
are crazy, move over one footthat have a totally different
line, or you can put your tireon this rock and go over that
rock because it picked the sideof the car up. But just knowing
your car and knowing the rocks.
I think that's one of thebiggest struggles is kale. Ah,
it's I always end up rolling thetruck or doing something down.

(01:17:31):
You know, I don't seem to havethat problem at any other race.
Okay. Oh, ah, so

Oh, you know, maybe maybe this year's the year
right, as we approach catch2021. But I don't want to get
too far

this year is definitely the year I mean, a
very, are definitely going forit. But anyway, he has a, that's
a pretty fast pace. I mean,it's. So you just have to, you
have to know those rocks reallywell, and you know what your car
can do. It's kind of a differentdeal than, you know, going down
the race ball hall where you'rejust trying to,

you know, keep the truck together per 1000
miles and go to a decent pace,but you're not, you're not
pushing it. Like, okay, ah, it'sgonna be amazing what we do with
kale. Ah, the thing that alwaysyou know, I know everyone
struggles with this kale, ah,it's the you have your, your
your heart rate up and your yourprocessor up as you're running,

(01:18:27):
you know, 60 7080 or 90 across,or 100 something across the lake
bed. And then you drop into oneof the canyons and you need to
drop to one mile an hour, threemiles an hour, five miles an
hour, but your brain is stillprocessing at a completely
different speed in your heartsat a completely different speed.

Yeah, it's, it's okay, weight is like nothing
else out there. And then it justgoes from these massive puzzling
rock features that you have totry and get your car over to 100
you know, 20 mile an hour plusstuff too big whoops to sand
too. loose rocks, mixed withsand. I mean, it's just, it's

(01:19:09):
just one thing after another inthat eight hours of kale, ah,
it's just it's just one mistakecan take you out and he just
can't have those mistakes. Youjust have to you have to put it
together. I mean,

it seems like look at Marcos this year, Marcos
had it together and then rippedand a arm off within a mile you
know, or two miles or threemiles out whatever that was it
wasn't very far out. Or Bleilerrolling and rolling on back
door.

Well that. I mean that just shows you the pace.
They're just I mean, thesepeople are in it to lose.
They're, they're in it for thenumber one possession and that
takes a jumping off the backdoor and rolling your talk or,
you know, hitting a rock becauseyou're going too fast around the
corner. I mean that's that'swhere the racing and co h has

(01:19:59):
gotten It's almost a sprint.
Yeah, through the rocks and youjust have to keep pace. It's.
And I think all of all of ultrafor racing is like that, you
know, the speed these cars aregoing to the rocks these days is
just, it's just crazy.

And all the while keeping Eric Miller Bay.

Yeah, Eric has Eric's I mean, we definitely can
pull them in the desert. But hejust got that car working so
well on the rocks. It just meanslike a ninja is a ninja.

How large? Rock ninja? Yeah. So what was your
first year attending? kfh? Like,did you ever go as a spectator?
Or was your first year that2015? Or to race it after you
qualified at Norco.

2014 so 2014 kale ah was my first year knows
straight to 4400 straightqualified NorCal picks up my
car. I don't know too much aboutprep. I don't know too much
about anything but show up atkale. Ah, then go racing.

How'd that go?
I never went back and looked.
How did 2014 go for you?

I don't really remember. I have to think about
it. But not very well. I don'tthink I finished I think. I
don't think it was going thathorrible. I think I ended up
blowing a rear pinion coming outof spinners spinners. So they
lost the rear death because itwas a high pinion spinning on
the coast side. Okay. And, youknow, me being new to racing

(01:21:26):
probably had a lot to do withit, you know, not not lifting at
the right moment. Yeah, notknowing what your parts can
withstand. I think a lot of guyscan drive with a high pinion
rear rear engine motor setup.
But if you don't understand atall, when you come into racing,
we can definitely blow it outpretty easy. But I think I think
that year, we ended up losingthe rear def coming out of

(01:21:47):
spinner. So I didn't have muchto go. But I mean, I wasn't. I
was, I don't know, probably inthe top 20. But you know,
nowhere near the lead pack. Andthey'd walked away. Yeah, but it
was definitely an eye opener, itwas just, you can imagine, just
get a 4400 car, let's go raceking of the hammers, or this is
now your people think you'redumb. So that's just, you know,

(01:22:08):
it is what it is.

But no, you're still with it, though. So at
what point did you startdeciding you were going to
change your car you in bychange, I mean, build your own.
And by that, I mean, you're selftaught at SolidWorks. I've seen
your CAD models that you kickout of your plan for your
vehicles and the things you'rechanging. You're really

(01:22:33):
irregular on posting content onInstagram. You're not on
Facebook, and I've heard thatfrom you know, Alan Johnson with
ultra for hours gives you VRtime about you. He's like, he's
like, I, you know, Paul is ineverything. He's at every race,
I take pictures, we go to postcontent, and then I can't
tagging on Facebook. So but buton Instagram, you're very active

(01:22:57):
in like I said, you, you're selftaught in every aspect of your
life. Everything that we'vetalked about to this point, out
of if that hasn't people haven'tcaught on to that trend with you
is how much you're self taughtand how much you push that
envelope of. If you don't knowit or understand it, you're
doing it and figure it out andmove forward. From all the way

(01:23:18):
from those hageland trucks toyour your little mini jet boat
to doing turbo kits forsnowmobiles. Now you're an ultra
for and you've set that you'veset the bar, right? You've set
the bar that you didn't youdidn't finish. And now you're
going going after it. And sosomewhere in there, you teach
yourself SolidWorks and youstart building cars for

(01:23:40):
yourself. What was that Genesis,

I always love to build things. And it was just, I
mean, it was just like back inthe day like, okay, we want more
suspension or Three Wheeler,well, they don't tell us a bunch
of Three Wheeler. So get someforks off a motorcycle and put
them on there. domain. And so Iwas always into building things,
and then working on things. ButI think it probably started at a
young age. I remember my firstcar it was, you know, I was

(01:24:07):
driving down the road and I seenthis car under a tarp. And I'm
like, I need a car. And I wasprobably 1314 years old. And I
was like, I look like asuperhero. So I go knock on the
guy's door and say you want tosell that car out there. You
know, and he says, it looks atme kind of weird. And he's like,
sure he was like how much youwant. He's like 500 bucks. So I
go up and pull the tarp up onthis car. And the roof was

(01:24:29):
smashed down to the, you know,to the beltline. This car and
this guy's like you still wantto buy this and I was like Yep,
we'll be back tomorrow thetrailer, you know, I think it's
so I took that car and I justtook a handyman jack, you know,
as a 1314 year old kid and justput it in there between the door
sill and the roofs have jackedit up and glued a window in

(01:24:51):
there out of a different car.
Because we didn't have, youknow, resources to buy nowadays.
It's like Oh, you didn't winshow but I'm gonna buy it for
$100 but Back then we didn'thave $100. windshields were hard
to find. So you cut one out ofanother car, put it in there.
So, no, but it was justresourcefulness like that.
That's always gotten me through.

(01:25:13):
And it's always been if I don'tunderstand something, I have to
go out and put my hands on itand do it. It's not, I can't
someone can't teach me somethingin school. I never been able to
learn that way. Okay, so that's,that's why College has never
been good. Well, like my wife,she can go to college and learn
all this stuff in school, butit's just not the way I can

(01:25:33):
learn things. So I startedteaching myself SolidWorks and
stuff like that when I startedworking on snowmobiles, I was
like, Oh, I need to build anintercooler. I'm gonna build
this intercooler on asnowmobile. Because it's, you
know, specific measurements andspecific machine parts that I
need. And I'm like, Well, I canafford to have that guy, go go

(01:25:55):
back, because it's gonna cost metoo much money. So well probably
go build that myself. So I juststarted learning, you know, one
part at a time, like, you know,build a little bracket. And then
pretty soon it was, when I gotinto ultra for racing, it was,
you know, it was easy for me togo out and buy a car. And I
definitely didn't want to buildmy first car. Because it was, I

(01:26:15):
think it was too big of a hurdleto be competitive. I was like, I
don't even know anything aboutcars, you know what I mean? So,
probably going to build this offroad race car, I looked at him.
But then when I bought the car,I just, I just noticed a lot of
downfalls in the car. So I waslike, Okay, oh, we did a lot of
work back car, too. But I waslike, Okay, I bought a car from

(01:26:36):
somebody shouldn't be like asuper nice race car that's
really competitive that I couldrace for five, six years, at
least. But it wasn't that way.
So what I kind of figured outwhat I wanted in a car, or what
could be better in a car, I waslike, well, I got to chop the
back off, I got to chop thefront off. But I got chopped the
belly out of this car. So I waslike, Well, at that point, don't

(01:26:56):
hold the car. So we might aswell build a new car. So I ended
up designing my own car. And Ijust read and read books on, you
know, suspension stuff, and justtrying to learn a lot, mainly
just cycling, suspension andSolidWorks just, you know,
spending a lot of late nightsjust doing CAD drawings and, you
know, trying to learn what thetire does when you do this and

(01:27:22):
what tire does when you do thatwhat the steering does. And just
playing around a lot with ittrying to learn it built. The
first car though, actuallydidn't have a I didn't build the
front irfs because that's themost technical spot of a car,
the steering and irfs so I hadbought it from a guy and we
grafted that to that car, but Iwanted something so technical at

(01:27:45):
that point in my life because Ithought you know, I want the
best. So I'll have you know,these guys built the best. But
it ended up being you know, itwas it was too cutting edge.
They were had too many fall atthe cutting edge is the bleeding
edge. Right? Oh, so it had toomany things in it like that

(01:28:06):
didn't work right and need to befixed. We ended up cutting the
front of that truck off. Weraised it probably for five or
six races. But I did not finishone race. With four wheel drive
I show up on solo drive and allbrand new parts. And by the time
I got done with practice, Iwouldn't have four wheel drive.

(01:28:27):
So actually, in Glen Helen weactually started the main event
in two wheel drive and won thatrace in two wheel drive. I think
that was in 2016 in that truck.

I remember people joking about it at some
point that you didn't even runreal shafts like you ran like
you ran like broomsticks paintedblack to like as a jet like as a
joke because the car was todrive

well he just pulled everything out of the
truck because we didn't haveanother choice it's not like I
wanted to start the race as anunderdog but we obviously showed
up to race so it was you knowwe're showing up to the main
event to drive forward by Manueldrive it doesn't matter

as long as you're able to go forward Yeah,
it is what matters

definitely in diving

in that stuff though you were that was the two
works that was you know the gamechangers right Didn't your one
of your current cars have thatgame changer intersections in
them today? Even though it'syou've made iterations?

Yeah, well, it's actually good that the so when
we built that car in 2016 it'sactually the card Lord Helios
right now. It actually had atoolbox built rear deck which is
a planetary and then the frontdeck was a planetary but it
wasn't necessarily the diff.
That was bad. It was theplanetary setup was overspending
the lockers too fast and wecouldn't get the lockers alive.

(01:29:51):
Okay, that's cool. It was justsomething you didn't think about
was like, okay, lockers areliving so why do we need to
think about them, but Now you'respinning a locker three and a
half times faster than a normallocker. All the ratchets are no
wear out springs wear out,everything wears out at it too
fast. And then that car, like,crazy swing set type staring at

(01:30:13):
it. It was just what I think wewere trying to put more into it
than what we knew would work.
Now I kind of look at a car as Iwant, like, I don't want to make
too many changes, we want tomove forward. But I don't want
to, I don't want to sit therefor a year or two years and not

(01:30:33):
finish a race. I think if youbuild something too advanced, I
think you're going to be in thatsame boat. You're just going to
be fighting your car trying toget it to work trying to, you
know, because it seems likeeverything we try. There's
always a learning curve to it,whether it's a transfer case, or
a transmission, or an engine, oryou know, anything you try. It's

(01:30:54):
always Oh, this didn't work. Sono, I try. We try and focus on
what does work. And then how canwe make that better? versus, you
know, let's make a rocket ship.
Why orange? Orange has been acolor of mine. Since I was a
kid. I've been at Orangesnowmobile and an orange car, we
actually painted orange. Itaught myself how to paint cars.

(01:31:15):
So it was always buying wreckedcars, because you know, those
were cheaper. So we would paintthem. I just always been drawn
to the color orange, nothingspecial. It's

just a gotcha.
Just Just curious. So sometimespeople have reasons to talk to
y'all Mitch and Josh Markham,Mitch sweat. And in Josh
Markham, you have two reallyamazing guys that that work with
you and work for you and helpyou, you know, accomplish goals.
Tell me about those guys,because they're also somewhat

(01:31:46):
mysterious, a little bit intheir own in their own rights.

I got some amazing people help me out
racing. It's so match. We kindof met probably about six, eight
months before this, I'll tellyou this whole story. But so he,
the two dragon have just comeout from ventech. And Mitch was
a he had a shop and he waslooking at buying one. So
they're like, oh, there's thisguy, you know, a couple miles

(01:32:14):
away from you that has one. SoMitch, you know, calls me up and
look at your tube dragon. Youknow, I show it to him. And I
don't think too much, Mitch, youknow, until well, he's, he's,
he's a busy guy. So I mean, wekeep in contact, but it's like,
two weeks. Well, there's a weekbefore nationals. And I think it
was 2018 or so. And we I had cutthe front end of that to work

(01:32:39):
started off that car, the entirefront end, and it's a week
before nationals. And I'm like,looking at this car. Like, I
gotta make this. And I'm like,Well, I need some more help. I
call Mitch. And he comes over.
He's like, yeah, I'll be rightover. Because he's that kind of
guy that just, yeah, whateveryou need. I'll I'll be over
there right now. I can dropwhatever I got going. And I'll

(01:32:59):
be over there to help you. Helooks at me and he comes in the
garage. And he's just like, thebig just look on his face is
like he's like this is thatyou're not gonna get this done.
We might as well quit right now.
But he showed up to Nationalsraced and got it down. I mean,
it's just, you know, if you putyour mind to something, you

(01:33:20):
pretty much can. I mean, there'ssome limitations. But

yeah, and he's a hell of fabricator. He's a
hell of a wrench. And they'll doanything.

He's been a big asset to the team. I mean, Mitch
and Josh both, and we got acouple other amazing guys. That
helped us too. But I will talkmore on those guys in a bit. But
Mitch, he fabricates and worksfor a guy that runs a razor
invest in the desert. Heactually raised us in the desert
in his old razor for a fewyears. So he's kind of a guy

(01:33:51):
that has that racing lovesracing. I mean, he just, it's
just his passion. So he alwaystells me, you know, it's the
lifestyle. So yeah, absolutely.
So he just, he just, whatever ittakes, he just loves it. And you
know, same with Josh. I metJosh, there was a company called
midnight four by four in SaltLake that sells a bunch of off

(01:34:11):
road parts and tubing and allkinds of stuff. They're pretty
core shop. And I would buy mytubing, Bill cars and you know,
first Josh by like, who's thisguy mine all his tubing. But
finally He's like, no, if youbuy all this tubing, maybe I
should come check out yourprojects. is like, he comes up
and checks out. He's like, Can Ijust come up and help you guys?

(01:34:34):
We're like, sure, you know? SoJosh. Josh came up and help. And
you know, and

he's in his business. Yeah, yeah. You said
it's midnight, four by four.
They're in Salt Lake City,right?

That's right.
four by four. They're onlinealso. So they sell a bunch of
offroad parts. And pretty muchanything you need. Plus, guys
like Josh that work there. canget Whatever you need to know,
they don't even have it, theycan source it. They're just
resourceful people. But Josh isalso a good fabricator, he can
well, you know, we can all weld,we could all do all this work.

(01:35:10):
And it just, we kind of split itup like all the the CAD work all
the some of the welding, but Ijust can't do it all. I mean,
you can't take a car like thattakes two to 3000 hours, like
man hours. And for me toaccomplish something like that,
it would take me a couple ofyears. So if you want to get a
car out, you just have to a fewtalented people and just, you

(01:35:34):
know, put in the hours when itspits out the other side. But
you definitely can't do it byyourself unless you're willing
to, you know, get a car two orthree years when technology has
changed.

It moves that fast right now.

Yeah, so but all of us, you know, we kind of take
on different different skillsand are different tasks and get
it done. But those guys arejust, it's amazing. Those guys
are just when we go racing, youknow, I'll think of like, Oh, I
don't wanna change the gearingin the truck. And Josh, and
those guys, since I come backin, they're like, already, like,

(01:36:11):
do we need to change thegearing? I was like, No, I don't
want to pull this out. They'relike, over changing the gearing.
I mean, they're like, they're,they want to win more than I
want to win. Sometimes it seemslike you know what I mean, I
want to win, but it's like,that's gonna be two, three hours
work. But you know, those guysare just like, man, we're gonna
win this race. We're gonna pullthis, pull this transfer case
pose transmission, whatever wegot to do, whatever we have

(01:36:34):
parts for, it's going into thistruck. We're working all night
if we got to. And I think that'sthe, the mindset, your whole
team has to have to actually goout there and accomplish
something like, you know,winning a race or doing well.
What I think

a lot of guys have said this, we've set it on
the show before many times and Ithink I believe it's sinking in
for some but the races one inthe shop, man, it's one in prep,
and it's one in the pit rightbefore the race before the green
flag drops.

Yeah, it's definitely you know, car setup
is huge. And you know, now wehave a lot of notes, but we're
also ultra poor is alwayschanging venues and going to
different places. So we don'tnecessarily have gearing notes
or, you know, what we need orwhat? So we're always changing.
I think that was a big problemof with me I Crandon this year
as the new truck by go out, youknow, instant rev limiter, we

(01:37:25):
all went out tested it, but itfelt really good, you know. But
I think that's where a lot ofpeople like to take racing to me
as a has been my like testground as like been my proving
ground where a lot of people goout like test and Tinker Park
and go win a race. But racing isthe best test you can put on a
car and sit down. Oh,absolutely. So like, we've got

(01:37:47):
Tesla's truck, oh, it feelsgreat. You go out to a race or
on the rev limiter? You know,because the race is the only
place you're putting that car at100%. Otherwise, you're, you
think it's still great. You'rejust hitting, you know, doing a
donut out in the desert. And youdon't even realize you need 10
more miles out the truck.

Yeah, there's show up. There's no replacement
for green flag time.

Yeah, I think that's why I try and do as many
races as possible because I justwant that experience, you know,
that it's just like you said,there's zero better experience
than actual seat time bracingsomebody because then you are
pushing the limits. You know,everybody's pushing the limits,
you your crew, everybody's justthere to win the race and it's

(01:38:33):
like is that it's a lot of it'sprep, tuning. Unfortunately, we
don't the hard thing with me istuning like these trucks. I
almost think that tuning on thetrack is probably the best

way to tune where you try to get your kind
of your dope sheet right youknow, you know, the train, you
have an idea where you know, atleast a starting point. And then
you get some practice in andthen you get the qualifying and
you have different cuts it kindof

the fine tune, right? We look at it as any edge
we care to win. I mean, whetherit's I will gear the truck, the
three mile an hour, you know, sowhatever we can do to be more
competitive. I mean, whetherit's whatever it takes, do you
run any like data acquisition onyour cars? Yeah, we have the

(01:39:19):
life racing danzi do that holdenzio that's what it was engine
package has life racing in itand it has a full data log
system on it but it only reallyrecords you know engine
temperature transfer casetemperatures, all those
parameters from different weirdif the does some like
transmission slippage, stufflike that, but we don't have any

(01:39:41):
like shock sensors or anythinglike that. It's more that's more
seat of the pants, like, Oh, Ican go faster. This, you know,
this is hurt me. I need toadjust this.

That's fair.
Let's talk about your singleseater real quick because I
think this is the perfect placeto talk about your current
single seater that you just tookyou took nationals with and you
didn't have a lot of luck withthis year. But you did that the
problem is, it's not a problem.
It's just, you're there to win.
And second place is truly thefirst loser for you and, and the

(01:40:12):
way you look at your car andthis is a brand new car, and you
guys race it you COVID throughall sorts of Monkey wrenches and
everything. But if, as I wastalking to Mitch, Mitch and I
were discussing how many racesyou guys did on that car in like
a four week or six week periodof time, it was like Crandon,
NorCal, Moab, Oklahoma, orsomewhere in there, like you fit

(01:40:38):
in race. Is that right? It wasfour in six weeks? Well, I

think we did.
Yeah, well, we did two atrandom. So that was that was up
two races and then raised thatMoab. And then we went to
NorCal. That's right, and thenshowed up at Nationals,
nationals, all of that same car,so is 12345 in a row, on a car,
that the big thing with thatcar, to me was proving it to
myself, I think that's theplatform that we're going to try

(01:41:06):
and build the new car around. Soit was like, going out to New
York, I was like, Okay, I canget some more seat time, we got
a desert, but that's really notgoing to prove anything to
anybody. So let's go out there.
And shell tough to say, guys,you know, we have to go out
there. We can't just buildanother car, unless we know this
car can work, then there'sdefinitely been some bugs in it.

(01:41:29):
But we're, you know, definitelygetting out of it. But I think,
you know, it's a, it's takingwhat everything we know and
putting it into what we canbuild CNF product about is is
pretty cool.

Is your goal been to infor looking I don't
know if it what it was ever goback in 2014 or 2016. But now
that we're in 2020, and you'veput together new cars in is one
of your future goals is to buildand sell some or build raced and
sell to feed the habit.

You know, that's been a bit of a challenge. I
think I'd love to build peoplecars. But I don't think people
want to pay what it takes tobuild a car to this level. I
don't want to build someone acar at the house level. So but I
also don't want to build a carand be competing with that car.
At some point. You know what Imean? Unless Unless I can build

(01:42:21):
a better car. Unless I think Icould build a better car. So
when Lauren asked me to buy thatcar, I said, Well, I think I'm
gonna build a better car. Sosure, I'll say that car. But,
you know, I've had lots ofpeople ask me to buy these other
cars. And I'm just like, youknow, like, they're not for
sale. It's, it's,

I don't want to race against it. Well,

I mean, the real reason I started building
racecars was to so we couldevolve the race racing. So I
look at things as like, youknow, since I designed it all in
SolidWorks. I know exactly whatkind of camber I know what kind
of caster I know what you knowwhat the steering angle, I know
what the ni squat is, I know allthese numbers into these cars.

(01:43:02):
And then I ride the car. And I'mlike, Okay, this is why this car
is behaving like this. And thenwe take it to the next car, and
we do a little fine tuning on itto try to make it better. And I
think that's been you know, abig reason that we're we do so
well his homework, we take thatknowledge and versus a lot of
guys in the trophy trucks,they're driving the same trophy

(01:43:25):
truck as the other guy. So howdo you how do you get that edge
over that guy? You know what Imean?

Well, we saw it for many years where it was
true, you know? t ones trophieswhatever they were it was the
class of geyser trucks. Righteveryone drove a geyser and then
finally we started to see Masonjoin the party to co build a few
you know, Jason bosses truck wasbuilt by a couple guys up in the
Bay Area. I believe a fatherson. I mean, so we've seen some

(01:43:55):
trucks come out that weren't allgeyser but there was a window
there like the maybe Oh 910 1112somewhere in there where every
truck was a it was a geyserbuilt in Phoenix. Yeah,

but if you're if you're doing that, you're just
you're racing you have noadvantage over the other guy.
It's none and then there's sometuning but you have the same
truck. So it's a spec series andthat's what I think is so cool
about ultra for right now isbuild whatever you want. Right
now run what you brung runawaybrung so if you think you can

(01:44:29):
build you know your car a littlebit different here and make it
better here. Try it out. It's upto you to try that but and
that's what I think is kept mean ultra for racing is is the,
you know, build my own car.
idea. I can build somethingfaster than the other guy I you
know, I have these ideas and Iwant to try this and, you know,
this car is acting this way. Solet's try and lower the roll

(01:44:53):
Center and the trucker. Youknow, that sort of thing is you
know, we're just find him Nicecars to try and make them
faster. I don't believe I'm thefastest racer out there. I think
I have a better weapon. But Ithink I'll get to that point
where I'm a faster racer everytime I race. But you know, a lot
of these guys have a lot moreexperience than I got. The key

(01:45:13):
time is huge.

That it is in, you know, we just came out of
Thanksgiving, a lot of peoplewere out at the hammers,
testing, tuning, pre running,just kind of getting everything
kind of shaken out before theydo that last tear down and auto
prep, or, or what's coming at usfull speed like 50 some days
from now. Man, you we kind ofcranked through everything I
want to crank through. One thingI want to go back and touch on

(01:45:39):
is you mentioned you've got someother guys that I want to give
you the chance to give a shoutout to that work on your cars
with you. And for you, I want tomake sure that you are able to
talk about them. I know the maintwo but I know you have a an
incredible team, it takes morethan just you and two guys.

Unfortunately, like some of the a lot of the
help that we have is you knowguys with other jobs or you
know, other obligations, andthey come and help on the
weekends. Even Josh comes inhelps on the weekends, but he
usually comes to every race withus. I guess it just takes a lot
of little contacts, you know,and then trying to find all
these people and put themtogether, you know, I got a guy,

(01:46:17):
Dave that comes and helps meweld. He's been welding for me
for three or four years now. Andhe can just sit down and just,
you can TIG weld for, you know,12 hours straight. Yeah, and you
can just get a lot of stuffdone. And I got, you know, my
brother in law that came downand help down in Baja, and he
brought a few friends fromColorado, and a lot of those

(01:46:37):
guys will come to college withus do and, you know, my sister
helps out when she can even ifit's just watching the kids, you
know, I came of age. You know,my wife, sister, Polly does a
lot of help. RACE planning, youknow, hotels, all that stuff
that you just don't, I mean,it's just a huge pile of stuff

(01:46:59):
that you have to do to go

race. It's a logistical nightmare. And
somehow we can solve it.

Yeah, it's just, it's massive. It's like, you
know, how are we going to feedall these people? How are we
going to sleep? How are we goingto get gas? How are we going to
do this, you know, so it justtakes a pile of people to do it.
You know, I got this Lauren'scode, the guy that drove was
Lauren, Zig, he drove the 250.
with Lauren, he's actually codrove with Jeff McKinley and the

(01:47:26):
razor last year, okay, he doeshelps out a lot him and his
brother Kai said I got in bed,man, it's just all these people
just are the only way it canhappen. If I was the guy trying
to race and trying to focus onracing, and, you know, working
on my car, and doing all thatstuff that just did just too
much. It's just not possible, atleast to run in that,

you know, that top front pack.

Yeah, it's, it's, I'm pretty blessed with the
people that we have, you know,helping out and the whole, you
know, mindset of the whole teamof people, you know, you know,
well, how do you get the jobdone?

I think that's also a personal reflection on
you, right? That, you know,you've proven that you're goal
oriented, you want success, youyou plan to achieve success, and
I think is people like to besuccessful, right. And so, and
you've surrounded yourself withother people that are successful
at the same time, and just likegoing to baja with with Lauren
and Dave Cole, you've surroundedyourself with success. They view

(01:48:27):
you as a successful individualand have surrounded themselves
with you. Same with, you know,your team, and they all kind of,
you know, it's called like, Iknow, you've worked on a crew
like this, especially on a drillrig, it takes you know, if
everybody's positive and upbeat,it makes the job go good. I
mean, it makes everything likeeverything's good. But you take
that one guy that's negative allthe time. He just kind of

(01:48:47):
poisons the well. Yeah, youdefinitely get those kind of
people around. Yeah, not not notnot in this environment. Well,
I'd written down you know, Ialways hit the spot, you know,
in the show where I was askedabout the future, and I'll tell
you what, my future I have fourbullet points and says we've,
we've hit some and I wrote thisbefore ba right. And it was when

(01:49:09):
baja done. You did that.
Congratulations again. I thinkthat's so freakin cool. So epic
that you you guys pulled thatoff. And the way you did
spectacular, well done. The nextone was when kale Ah, I mean,
you're there, right, you're inthe hunt.

That's the next goal. I mean, it's just, that's
the next thing on the plate. Youknow, it's just a lot of work. I
mean, a lot of I think a lot ofpeople look at racing from the
sidelines and think of it looksfun. You know, I get a lot of
people that tell me Oh, is it alot of fun. And it's enjoyable,
but it's more of that. It's moreof a challenge. I think. And I
think that's that's kind of ourwhole team focus is this is a

(01:49:52):
challenge and we're trying to,you know, win this challenge.

I mean, rise to the occasion.

Yeah, bah bah, I mean, those guys were Working on
the truck fell three in themorning, three nights in a row
before you know what racing, youknow, then visually left the
starting line. I mean, really,all we did was non stop work. I
mean, pre running work on thepre run or work on the race car,
just keeping everything alive.
And you know, these guys justdon't stop, you know, it's like,

(01:50:18):
okay, we need to do that. Yep, I

got that this guy, you know, everybody just
pitching in, it's just,everybody's in it for that, for
the win. Well, and when you talkto people outside of this
circle, they look at you, youknow, when you talk to other
humans, other humans, otherhumans are like, you work
really, really hard to have fun.
Why do you work so hard to havefun? Let's just go to a beach

(01:50:42):
and lay around on the beach.
Like, that's fun, right? Well,it's not challenge.

Yeah, it's there's no challenge in that.
So, I mean, it would probably berelaxing, but I've never been
the kind of guy to go relax on abeach. And then this is kind of
my world. So I mean, it seemslike the harder we work and the
more we got to stay up tillthree in the morning working,
the more we win. So whatever ittakes to

make sacrifices are worth it. And then the next
the next bullet point I had wasbuild another new car question
mark. And it sounds like youguys are I mean, you're you're
you're nonstop. So I assume youguys are cutting something up
and moving forward. What's yourwhat's your kind of window of
opportunity on rolling thatthing out? sometime? Late 2021?

Well, I plan is I was planning to chop the front
off of my to see cards, I justwanted the ball ha, but I
started thinking about it. And Iwas like, well, I chopped the
front of my plan was okay, I'llchop the front end off that car.
You know how the front irfs Iget the pre run around. But then
if I got to build a pre run, Igot beldholm car. So if I'm
gonna build a whole new car, Imight as well hold the racecar.

(01:51:56):
Right. So that kind of, youknow, my thought process kind of
changed there. And I definitelydon't want to do it before.
Okay, we were going to change afew things on the truck. Khaleda
shear is going to be kind of,it's going to be two races,
because they're going to do thedesert race the week before. And
then they're going to docailleach. You need two cars

(01:52:18):
down there. Right. So we don'tknow which car is going to race
which will be down there both torace both races. But it all
depends on the course. But I'mkind of thinking I'm in a race
to see car in the desert race.
And I'm going to race the singleseat car on correlators. Yeah, I
think we'll have to see how, howthe course looks when it all

(01:52:41):
comes out. But I think that'skind of what we're thinking
right now. But once that isdone, we're starting on this new
car by building you know, frontend components and stuff like
that right now. But we're notplanning on to have it done
until simply Basheer. That'llgive us some leads. I just don't

(01:53:01):
want to push these guys. I mean,they've been working so hard.
And we got to have a littlefamily time. It's just it's just
too much

enjoy their Christmas bonuses, you know,
jelly of the Month Club orsomething like that.

Yeah, I mean, we still got a lot of work to do
before king of the hammers. Imean, we have two cars and a
prerunner they're all you know,pretty much trashed.

Are you so are you still pre running that
pinhole car,

I am pre running the pedal car. My my goal is,
would be to sell the pedal carand use the tusi truck as the
new pre render the governingtruck.

That makes sense. Oh, it makes sense to me.
Anyway,

another run of the pedal fire is just I like to
drive my own stuff, but it'sdefinitely done its purpose.
It's gonna be nice. Just drivingour own stuff. It just, I don't
know, to me, it feels better.
You know, like I build thistruck.

Now there's a confidence factor and there's a
there's a 100% known factor,right? Yeah, you know this like
the back of your hand. And thenman my last question my last
bullet point for the future waswhat are your thoughts on what
you know what's the future forultra for what are the next
steps like where where's thetechnological advances going to

(01:54:17):
come the push what we do andwhat you do today to the next
level? As in cars Yeah,

well I think ultra for the problem with ultra
for is it's so diverse. That youalmost need three race cars. You
know, you need a short coursecar you need a desert car and
then cailleach car and all threeof those cars don't add up into
one car because your short carscar you don't have an extra guy

(01:54:46):
in there or college to help youread notes or help you when in
turn anything like that. It doesa car is a little too big for
tail ah because you know I gotthese obstacles depends on that
course. But you know, yourwheelbase might be too big, you
might have, you know, too muchweight carrying around. But then
you go out in the desert, andyou want a big, heavy car that

(01:55:08):
can cause a lot of fuel andspare tires and parts and be
comfortable. And so if you putall that into perspective, you
need three different race carsto be of the best of everything.
So I think we're gonna do alittle convertible work on this
new car where it can solve theproblem of two race cars. But
the also for the way I see it isyou just need reliable parts I

(01:55:33):
can get beat on and handle, youknow, handle these kind of races
that they're doing. And then healso I think sharks are going to
be a big part of it. I think foxis coming out with some live out
tuning that you'll

see that co H and we've had some discussions
about that. I think that's, Ithink that's really cool tech, I
think that's the next step.
Right?

Yeah, I think they're on the leading edge of
developing that stuff. And Ithink that's gonna be a big
benefit. You know, tires. Ithink we're on probably the best
tire out there. I think therecould be a benefit. A little bit
larger tire. Okay, all right.
42, or move into a 42? Yeah,because I mean, that's the next

(01:56:18):
step, right. But you got to havethe car that can handle that.
But if you're going to 42 nowyou can, you know, get up that
ledge a little easier. Get overthis, but the problem has been
wheels, you know, then move intoa 20 inch wheel. And then the
wheel is too big. It's too weak.
So, but I think there could besome something there with it a

(01:56:42):
little bit bigger tire, maybe a41. Anything. Yeah, better than,
than the other guy.

Well, you're wearing a NATO hat. So I would
say maybe, maybe theconversation needs to flow
through through like ChrisCorbett enough. I mean, like, we
need a 41 for competition. Helpus out here.

It's just so hard to know. Yeah,

we know. You know, we absolutely know. Well,
man, Paul, I was so worried isnot the right word. But I'd
really wanted to interview youfor a long time. I've had you on
this for a long time. I didn'tknow you very well. And you're
real quiet. And, and guys likewil Gentile told me Hey, man,
he's a hard interview. Man. Ihad, I've had a great night with

(01:57:24):
you. I have a great session. Didwe cover everything that that
you wanted to cover?

I think so. I think we talked for quite a long
time. We did this is probablythe longest

one I've ever had. But you know, you got to
make the finale, you know, forfor this season. You know, you
got to make it good. And, and Ithink you absolutely did that
you filled in a lot of blanksfor a lot of folks, including
myself. I don't think I hadanything you know, left out
there that didn't get answered.
I'd been told you are aninteresting fella. And listening
to your stories. You know,interesting is not the word I

(01:57:54):
have to I would use to describeyou. You are but I found you. I
find you to be superinspirational. I find your drive
and your ability to you know,keep your eye on the prize to
finesse and move keep moving theball forward and progressing. No
matter what it is refreshing. Ifind that inspirational I found

(01:58:14):
that your super ear super humbleguy, which is super cool. I mean
a lot of people no for for our,like I said the birds of a
feather flock together. But youknow from your humble beginnings
in Alaska, to you know a housewith no electricity, but running
water if you only turn thegenerator on to, you know,
drilling, you know, core wellsall over all over the world and

(01:58:35):
some crazy stories there too.
Now, living in Park City withyour own ski lifts in your
backyard and racing at the upperechelon of offroad rock sports
is super inspirational man. Fromme, I'm sure from other people,
but for me, thank you. Thank youfor sharing your story with me.

(01:58:57):
I had I had no idea you were ascool and as awesome. As you are.
I'd heard stories, but now Iknow for myself. And hopefully
now everyone else will hear thisas well. I caught you

the most serious man and ultra for hopefully I
don't think I'm too mysteriousanymore. I mean, it's, I mean,
I'm just a normal guy.

I just, you know, I just love racing. Just
the whole atmosphere of youknow, competition has just been
what has driven me my whole lifeand going down that road or just
trying to win races. You know,here in a couple weeks, eight
weeks, six weeks, however manyweeks it is now because it's
coming up so fast. hammers. I'llstop and see you. We'll have

(01:59:39):
some waters together somecoffees if it's early in the
morning, and we'll figure itout, man. All Thank you for
coming on the talent tank. Iappreciate you.

Alright, appreciate it.

I'll see you later. All right, guys. I hope
you guys appreciate thisepisode, man. Paul horschel. All
right. We're out.

Intro/Outro (01:59:56):
Thank you for listening and taking the dive
into detail and take care Pleaselike and subscribe on Instagram.
For our website, the talenttank.com

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Cold Case Files: Miami

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP 40 Paul Horschel

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Cold Case Files: Miami

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

EP 40 Paul Horschel

Cold Case Files: Miami