June 5, 2025 • 11 mins
So, you've got this deal all tied up, right? WRONG. Or at least it's wrong if you do one of the following...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the talent trade.
(00:04):
I am Stephanie Maas, partner withThinking Ahead, executive Search.
And today I wanna talk about someinteresting psychology that often happens
after a candidate and a client havemet for a final interview that if not
navigated carefully, can kill a deal.
(00:24):
It kills the deal because the recruiter,quite frankly, doesn't have the patience
and isn't willing to put their egoand their needs to the side for the
greater good and the greater good isthat of the deal coming together, which
should always first and foremost, serveour clients, serve our candidates.
(00:46):
Once they're served, we get served.
So here's the interesting psychology, andthis happened recently to a colleague of
mine and I really wanna shout out kudosto him for being willing to say, Hey,
am I thinking about this the right way?
Is my approach the right approach on this?
So let me set the stage.
So we had a client.
(01:08):
That we have been trying to fill sometalent needs with, put a handful of
candidates in their process and theydecided on the one person that they
wanted to bring to a final interview.
So we did all the work you do to prepfor a final interview with the client.
We did all the work that we do to prepthe candidate for his final interview,
(01:28):
and we let them go when we meet.
Here's where things got interesting onthe backside of that final interview.
Now again, we know with final interviews,typically it's not where decisions are
made, it's where decisions are finalized.
So typically in an interview process, assomeone is moving through the process.
By the time they get to a finalinterview, the candidate has probably
(01:53):
already decided that if the economicsmake sense, this is gonna be what
they do and they're gonna make a move.
Same with the client.
If they're bringing 'em into thatfinal interview, they're probably
decided that, hey, if all goes well,we're gonna make an offer, or we feel
like the decision is, this would bea good person to have on the team.
So, knowing that the final interview.
(02:14):
There's usually just a reinforcementthat, hey, we all think this is a match.
Go through some details andbutton some things up, et cetera.
When, however, sometimes a final interviewhappens, the client can often go in
and have a really good, strong meeting.
(02:35):
They get affirmed thatthis is the right person.
They wanna bring 'em on board.
The decision, again, evidenceto support the decision, which
they probably already made.
And same with the candidate.
They go in, they have a good meeting, theywere probably gonna take the job anyway.
They get affirmed.
Here's what can happen sometimes.
Now, I will be honest, thisdoesn't happen that often, but it
happens enough to talk about it.
(02:56):
There can be a weird psychology thathappens after this final interview.
If the final interview goes super well.
Here's what the psychology is.
The client can sometimes walkaway going, wow, that guy is ours.
He showed up.
He showed, well, basically saidhe wanted a job and he sold.
(03:21):
Then what the client has todo next is make an offer.
So we all know when youfeel like you got something.
Sometimes it happens wherewe wanna see, okay, we know
they're sold on the opportunity.
We think they're gonna sayyes, let's flow ball 'em.
Our hiring compensationrange was one 40 to one 60.
(03:43):
I know the recruiter said they wanted1 58, but eh, let's offer from one 40.
We think we got him.
He's ours.
I bet we can get him in a deal'cause he's so sold on us.
Y at the same time, thiscan happen to candidates.
They can go in and the client.
Has their selling, she's on and does sucha great job of selling them and convincing
(04:05):
them that they're sold on the candidate.
That the candidate who previouslywas willing to take an offer in
the one 40 to one 50 range suddenlysays, yeah, I'm gonna need one 60.
Now.
Again, where we have to do ourhomework is making sure that
there wasn't any information.
(04:25):
Or new circumstances to changethe interest of the candidate
or the client because sometimes.
Clients will low ball because theyheard or saw something that now
deters them from the candidate.
And they'll often use a low ball offeras a polite way of saying, no thanks.
Same thing with candidates.
Hey, I'm gonna ask for the sun,moon, and the stars and compensation.
(04:48):
They're gonna say no, and that'sgonna get me out of the deal
because something's changed.
I don't want it anymore.
This only applies when you've donea good job debriefing with a client,
debriefing with a candidate, and canconfirm to the best of your ability
that this is truly, they absolutelywant the talent and they're just
trying to see if they can get a deal.
(05:08):
Now, are most clients gonna jump out thereand tell you, Hey, I just want a deal?
No, but they're gonna say thingsthat, again, if you're a good enough
recruiter, you're gonna pick up.
Hmm.
I know we said originallywe could go to one 60.
I've told you from the beginningthe candidate wanted 1 58.
Help me understand what has changedthat now we're thinking of offering
(05:30):
one 40 and when you really.
Listen, you can hear what they say ordon't say, and if they really want the
candidate, but they're trying to get adeal, you'll be able to decipher that.
It often sounds somethinglike, oh, no, no, no.
We, we definitely want John, we,we think he'd be a great fit here.
(05:51):
Just after our conversation, youknow, we think, you know, at one
40 he'll be happy to come on board.
We think we can gethim language like that.
Hesitation, like that.
Those are our ding,ding, ding, ding, ding.
Yes, John is very excited aboutthe opportunity and I think he
could really see himself beinghere with this organization.
(06:11):
However, I need to caution you,client, that part of John's excitement
came from the idea that we hadalready discussed compensation
being closer to the 1 58 number.
If we're gonna deviate away from thatwithout a compelling reason, that could.
(06:32):
Impact his interest.
Simple as that.
Same thing on the candidate side.
If the candidate comes back andsays, you know, Hey, I know I said
I'd take 1 58, but I, the magicnumber now is 1 65, or, yeah, I'm
not sure this is gonna work for me.
Okay.
Help me understand.
What did you learn inthat final interview?
What in your circumstances has changed?
You just gotta dig in and really listento the why and, and they can say all
(06:55):
kinds of things, but you gotta reallyhear, I mean, look, I know I'm your guy.
I know they want me.
I know I could add a lot of value.
It's best to negotiate on the front end.
Listen, listen, listen, hear, hear, hear,and then come back to and say, Hmm, John,
I appreciate where you're coming from.
Let me ask your help.
This is where we're gonna be.
A little challenged.
(07:16):
Yeah.
I spoke to the client,they are very high on you.
In fact, they think you would be atremendous fit for the organization, part
of your candidacy and their interest.
Is you being closer to the1 58 in compensation range?
If we go in and deviate too far awayfrom that, they are gonna think either
(07:39):
you're not interested and you have to bebought, or you are no longer interested
in trying to price yourself out.
Help me with that.
And then listen.
And if they go, oh yeah, well Ihave decided it's one 70 or nothing.
And that's just the way it is.
Okay, well I, again, I'm your advocate.
I will represent you accordingly.
(08:00):
I just wanna be very transparent.
If they can't get to the one70, I have your permission
to say we are not interested.
Again, none of this is manipulation.
None of it is even negotiating.
What it is doing it is helping us bringour clients and our candidates back to
(08:22):
a little bit of reality, and this iswhere the art of what we do comes in.
It's helping us put pride and egoand highly emotional topics like
compensation back to logic and reason.
Again, it just reminds everybody ina very kind way that, hey, you are
(08:43):
represented at a certain price tag.
That is part of what makes you attractive.
You represented this opportunity at acertain price tag, and that's part of
what makes this person super interested.
And if there's something that'schanged, we need to delve into that.
But if it's suddenly you just thinkyou can get them cheaper and that's
(09:04):
bad language, but you think youcan get 'em for a deal or a steal.
That will impact their interest becausetheir interest included this compensation.
It can be tricky.
These are very big, real grownupconversations to have with folks.
Again, typically it's in themidst of something that's highly
(09:24):
emotional, and where we can be reallystrong and add tremendous value is
deescalating the emotion, reallyhelping our clients and our candidates.
Remember.
Promises that were made, representationsthat were made and that, hey, if you
really wanna do right by this person,we gotta do the right thing and changing
(09:48):
what we said we could do for no otherreason than we think we can get a deal.
It's not good business.
It doesn't end up feeling good, andmost of the time the candidate is
gonna say no and they're gonna walkaway with a bad taste in their mouth.
Same thing on the candidate side.
Hey candidate, if you want me goingin and asking for money, that's way
outside of what we talked about.
(10:09):
I'm happy to do it.
I appreciate the spiritof negotiation, however.
If they can't do it and we walk away,that's gonna leave the client with a
pretty bad taste in their mouth, knowingthat you came to the final interview
under certain compensation understandings,and now we changed at the altar.
(10:31):
The other thing too is from the recruiter,we have to put our pride and ego to the
side because sometimes we wanna bow upboth at the client and at the candidate.
At the candidate going, Heyman, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
No, no, no, no, no.
I told you from thebeginning this was the comp.
Why are you changing your mind?
Nope.
We don't have to, we, we, wedon't need to be that way.
(10:51):
Same thing with our clients.
I mean, I can be completely honest whenI get a low ball offer from a client
and my clients know I adore them, Iadore my candidates, but when they do
silly things like that, it is superhard for me not to lose patience.
But then that's making it about me.
And a good recruiternever makes it about me.
You take care of your clients,you take care of your candidates,
(11:14):
you'll always get taken care of.
Hello and welcome to the talent trade.
(00:04):
I am Stephanie Maas, partner withThinking Ahead, executive Search.
And today I wanna talk about someinteresting psychology that often happens
after a candidate and a client havemet for a final interview that if not
navigated carefully, can kill a deal.
(00:24):
It kills the deal because the recruiter,quite frankly, doesn't have the patience
and isn't willing to put their egoand their needs to the side for the
greater good and the greater good isthat of the deal coming together, which
should always first and foremost, serveour clients, serve our candidates.
(00:46):
Once they're served, we get served.
So here's the interesting psychology, andthis happened recently to a colleague of
mine and I really wanna shout out kudosto him for being willing to say, Hey,
am I thinking about this the right way?
Is my approach the right approach on this?
So let me set the stage.
So we had a client.
(01:08):
That we have been trying to fill sometalent needs with, put a handful of
candidates in their process and theydecided on the one person that they
wanted to bring to a final interview.
So we did all the work you do to prepfor a final interview with the client.
We did all the work that we do to prepthe candidate for his final interview,
(01:28):
and we let them go when we meet.
Here's where things got interesting onthe backside of that final interview.
Now again, we know with final interviews,typically it's not where decisions are
made, it's where decisions are finalized.
So typically in an interview process, assomeone is moving through the process.
By the time they get to a finalinterview, the candidate has probably
(01:53):
already decided that if the economicsmake sense, this is gonna be what
they do and they're gonna make a move.
Same with the client.
If they're bringing 'em into thatfinal interview, they're probably
decided that, hey, if all goes well,we're gonna make an offer, or we feel
like the decision is, this would bea good person to have on the team.
So, knowing that the final interview.
(02:14):
There's usually just a reinforcementthat, hey, we all think this is a match.
Go through some details andbutton some things up, et cetera.
When, however, sometimes a final interviewhappens, the client can often go in
and have a really good, strong meeting.
(02:35):
They get affirmed thatthis is the right person.
They wanna bring 'em on board.
The decision, again, evidenceto support the decision, which
they probably already made.
And same with the candidate.
They go in, they have a good meeting, theywere probably gonna take the job anyway.
They get affirmed.
Here's what can happen sometimes.
Now, I will be honest, thisdoesn't happen that often, but it
happens enough to talk about it.
(02:56):
There can be a weird psychology thathappens after this final interview.
If the final interview goes super well.
Here's what the psychology is.
The client can sometimes walkaway going, wow, that guy is ours.
He showed up.
He showed, well, basically saidhe wanted a job and he sold.
(03:21):
Then what the client has todo next is make an offer.
So we all know when youfeel like you got something.
Sometimes it happens wherewe wanna see, okay, we know
they're sold on the opportunity.
We think they're gonna sayyes, let's flow ball 'em.
Our hiring compensationrange was one 40 to one 60.
(03:43):
I know the recruiter said they wanted1 58, but eh, let's offer from one 40.
We think we got him.
He's ours.
I bet we can get him in a deal'cause he's so sold on us.
Y at the same time, thiscan happen to candidates.
They can go in and the client.
Has their selling, she's on and does sucha great job of selling them and convincing
(04:05):
them that they're sold on the candidate.
That the candidate who previouslywas willing to take an offer in
the one 40 to one 50 range suddenlysays, yeah, I'm gonna need one 60.
Now.
Again, where we have to do ourhomework is making sure that
there wasn't any information.
(04:25):
Or new circumstances to changethe interest of the candidate
or the client because sometimes.
Clients will low ball because theyheard or saw something that now
deters them from the candidate.
And they'll often use a low ball offeras a polite way of saying, no thanks.
Same thing with candidates.
Hey, I'm gonna ask for the sun,moon, and the stars and compensation.
(04:48):
They're gonna say no, and that'sgonna get me out of the deal
because something's changed.
I don't want it anymore.
This only applies when you've donea good job debriefing with a client,
debriefing with a candidate, and canconfirm to the best of your ability
that this is truly, they absolutelywant the talent and they're just
trying to see if they can get a deal.
(05:08):
Now, are most clients gonna jump out thereand tell you, Hey, I just want a deal?
No, but they're gonna say thingsthat, again, if you're a good enough
recruiter, you're gonna pick up.
Hmm.
I know we said originallywe could go to one 60.
I've told you from the beginningthe candidate wanted 1 58.
Help me understand what has changedthat now we're thinking of offering
(05:30):
one 40 and when you really.
Listen, you can hear what they say ordon't say, and if they really want the
candidate, but they're trying to get adeal, you'll be able to decipher that.
It often sounds somethinglike, oh, no, no, no.
We, we definitely want John, we,we think he'd be a great fit here.
(05:51):
Just after our conversation, youknow, we think, you know, at one
40 he'll be happy to come on board.
We think we can gethim language like that.
Hesitation, like that.
Those are our ding,ding, ding, ding, ding.
Yes, John is very excited aboutthe opportunity and I think he
could really see himself beinghere with this organization.
(06:11):
However, I need to caution you,client, that part of John's excitement
came from the idea that we hadalready discussed compensation
being closer to the 1 58 number.
If we're gonna deviate away from thatwithout a compelling reason, that could.
(06:32):
Impact his interest.
Simple as that.
Same thing on the candidate side.
If the candidate comes back andsays, you know, Hey, I know I said
I'd take 1 58, but I, the magicnumber now is 1 65, or, yeah, I'm
not sure this is gonna work for me.
Okay.
Help me understand.
What did you learn inthat final interview?
What in your circumstances has changed?
You just gotta dig in and really listento the why and, and they can say all
(06:55):
kinds of things, but you gotta reallyhear, I mean, look, I know I'm your guy.
I know they want me.
I know I could add a lot of value.
It's best to negotiate on the front end.
Listen, listen, listen, hear, hear, hear,and then come back to and say, Hmm, John,
I appreciate where you're coming from.
Let me ask your help.
This is where we're gonna be.
A little challenged.
(07:16):
Yeah.
I spoke to the client,they are very high on you.
In fact, they think you would be atremendous fit for the organization, part
of your candidacy and their interest.
Is you being closer to the1 58 in compensation range?
If we go in and deviate too far awayfrom that, they are gonna think either
(07:39):
you're not interested and you have to bebought, or you are no longer interested
in trying to price yourself out.
Help me with that.
And then listen.
And if they go, oh yeah, well Ihave decided it's one 70 or nothing.
And that's just the way it is.
Okay, well I, again, I'm your advocate.
I will represent you accordingly.
(08:00):
I just wanna be very transparent.
If they can't get to the one70, I have your permission
to say we are not interested.
Again, none of this is manipulation.
None of it is even negotiating.
What it is doing it is helping us bringour clients and our candidates back to
(08:22):
a little bit of reality, and this iswhere the art of what we do comes in.
It's helping us put pride and egoand highly emotional topics like
compensation back to logic and reason.
Again, it just reminds everybody ina very kind way that, hey, you are
(08:43):
represented at a certain price tag.
That is part of what makes you attractive.
You represented this opportunity at acertain price tag, and that's part of
what makes this person super interested.
And if there's something that'schanged, we need to delve into that.
But if it's suddenly you just thinkyou can get them cheaper and that's
(09:04):
bad language, but you think youcan get 'em for a deal or a steal.
That will impact their interest becausetheir interest included this compensation.
It can be tricky.
These are very big, real grownupconversations to have with folks.
Again, typically it's in themidst of something that's highly
(09:24):
emotional, and where we can be reallystrong and add tremendous value is
deescalating the emotion, reallyhelping our clients and our candidates.
Remember.
Promises that were made, representationsthat were made and that, hey, if you
really wanna do right by this person,we gotta do the right thing and changing
(09:48):
what we said we could do for no otherreason than we think we can get a deal.
It's not good business.
It doesn't end up feeling good, andmost of the time the candidate is
gonna say no and they're gonna walkaway with a bad taste in their mouth.
Same thing on the candidate side.
Hey candidate, if you want me goingin and asking for money, that's way
outside of what we talked about.
(10:09):
I'm happy to do it.
I appreciate the spiritof negotiation, however.
If they can't do it and we walk away,that's gonna leave the client with a
pretty bad taste in their mouth, knowingthat you came to the final interview
under certain compensation understandings,and now we changed at the altar.
(10:31):
The other thing too is from the recruiter,we have to put our pride and ego to the
side because sometimes we wanna bow upboth at the client and at the candidate.
At the candidate going, Heyman, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
No, no, no, no, no.
I told you from thebeginning this was the comp.
Why are you changing your mind?
Nope.
We don't have to, we, we, wedon't need to be that way.
(10:51):
Same thing with our clients.
I mean, I can be completely honest whenI get a low ball offer from a client
and my clients know I adore them, Iadore my candidates, but when they do
silly things like that, it is superhard for me not to lose patience.
But then that's making it about me.
And a good recruiternever makes it about me.
You take care of your clients,you take care of your candidates,
(11:14):
you'll always get taken care of.
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