February 6, 2025 • 21 mins
Derek Schlender, National SBA Executive Recruiter with ThinkingAhead Executive Search, joins the program to share the MPC approach to driving business, the fastest way to find your niche in the market, the MOST important question when marketing talent, and how to avoid throwing spaghetti on the wall.
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Episode Transcript
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Stephanie Maas (00:00):
Welcome to The Talent Trade. I am Stephanie
(00:03):
Maas, your host, partner atThinkingAhead Executive Search,
and today, I am super excited;incredible guest speaker with
us. What makes him incredible isnot just what he has done in the
executive search world, but it'salso who he is outside of the
(00:24):
office. In fact, he became ourteam mascot, Team Labradoodle.
And then when you think of aLabradoodle, certain things come
to mind. Nobody doesn't like aLabradoodle. Everybody loves a
Labradoodle. Nobody has issues.Even if they have dog allergies
or sensitivities, they are stilla Okay, meaning, if you've got
(00:44):
personal problems or issues,you're still okay with the
Labradoodle. Everybody lovesDerek. Nobody has issues with
him. Consistently producing canbe counted on, and has really
elevated our team since hejoined us. So Derek Schlender,
take us from here. Thanks somuch, Derek for being with us.
Derek Schlender (01:04):
Wow, thank you. Stephanie. Team mascot wasn't
something I expected, but youknow, sometimes you just get
these little delights in lifethat you just gotta roll with it
and embrace it. So it's an honorto be here. Thanks for having
me. And I think the last sixyears, they've been probably the
highlight, just from aprofessional standpoint for me,
not just the work that we do,but the people that I get to do
(01:26):
it with. But yeah, I focus onSBA recruiting for our banking
team. Run that niche nationally.Personally, my family, we reside
in Athens, Georgia. Go Dogs.Family of five. We have a nine
year old, seven year old and atwo year old. So my my world is
beautiful chaos right now.
Stephanie Maas (01:45):
I love it. So today, what I have asked Derek
to come and talk and speak to issomething that, in his niche and
in his world, he has not justrevolutionized, but truly
elevated in a way that nobodyprior to him has ever done, and
that is the MPC approach todriving business. He came in and
(02:12):
started figuring out that therewas this niche that he just
found his way to and really tookit and ran with it, and a big
part, a tremendous part, of histremendous success, it's the MPC
that he's really perfected. So Iwant to start there and have
Derek really walk us throughwhat made you pursue this MPC
(02:33):
approach to your market. How doyou consistently build it such a
high level with an MPC approach?And again, it's not all that you
do, but I know it's themajority, so just kind of give
us some history and then get usinto the details, man.
Derek Schlender (02:46):
Absolutely. So as I got started in search, a
big conversation between mymentor and myself and just our
team in general, was talkingabout, hey, what's going on in
the market in terms of whatdrives it? Is it client driven?
Is it candidate driven? Do wesee that swing from year to
year? The thing that really cameto light with SBA as a niche is
(03:10):
that it was incredibly candidatedriven. And I guess the best way
to think about that from a macroperspective is just simple
supply and demand. My niche inSBA lending tends this way,
largely because there's been ahigh number of baby boomer
generation bankers who have beenretiring. There's just not been
as many Gen X millennial youknow, there's just not enough
(03:33):
people getting into banking tooutnumber those that have been
retiring. And so over the last10 to 15 years, that's resulted
in this growing bubble of demandwhere there's just a lot more
need than there is talent. Andso that's resulted in something
for me that's just sustainablybeen candidate driven. I haven't
really had a lot of clientdriven moments in my time so
(03:58):
far. You know, there'sdefinitely been clients who have
said, Hey, Derek, you're therecruiter we want to work with
exclusively. You know, there'sjust some roles that have to go
to search, but the lion's shareof what my market needs is the
talent, and it's on a constantbasis. And so kind of this
supply and demand idea. Youknow, with demand so high and
(04:19):
supply so low if you can gobring to your clients what
they're needing, that's kind ofwhat I would define as candidate
driven.
Stephanie Maas (04:26):
Super helpful. So we figured this out, that
it's candidate driven. Now what?
Derek Schlender (04:32):
Yeah, so it's candidate driven. I think what
appealed to me a lot coming tothinking ahead, was that we are
not generalist recruiters, andso you've got a lot of banking
recruiters in the marketplace, alot of finance recruiters, but
very few of them are trulymarket masters. Is what I would
say. We kind of call it as aniche expert. And so when I was
(04:55):
starting off, and frankly,anyone who's gotten their start
in search, you don't know. Whatyour niche is, until you really
cut your teeth and you get asense of, where can I win, where
can I go, add value. And so Ijust started to pull, what we
call pull the thread in themarket. Like you see a thread,
you start to pull it, and what,what comes of that is you start
(05:16):
to get traction. And so where Iwas getting traction was SBA
lending. What's unique is wewere heading into the pandemic
as I was gaining traction. Andso what happened is everyone
stopped coming into the office.The Marketplace, basically
overnight, was completelyremote. And so while SBA lending
(05:36):
is a national product, anational program, I was thrust
into a market that was even morenational by nature of everyone
being remote, it didn't matterwhere you lived, as long as a
company got hired in your state.And so that just became more and
more of a focus, almost as aproduct of just circumstances
(05:57):
around the pandemic. That's kindof where it all started for me.
Stephanie Maas (06:01):
So when you're in this candidate driven world,
and MPC is your primary focus,what are some of the criteria
that, from your perspective,make a candidate extremely
marketable?
Derek Schlender (06:13):
That's a great question, and I think that's the
most important question, becausewhen it comes to marketing
talent, why are they marketable?Why are why is there value?
That's an important question. Sofor me, you know, you've got
kind of multiple candidate typesthat you are looking for in the
world of finance. You've gotpeople who are, what, you know,
(06:33):
straight up and down, revenuecontributors that are directly
tied to the bottom lineprofitability. You've got people
who are in the background, backoffice, people, credit
operations. So for me, it'sdifferent, depending on what
type of candidate it may be. Butto put it simply, if someone's a
revenue contributor, have theyproduced is number one, have
(06:54):
they produced at a level that isrecognized by the marketplace as
impressive, as meaningful, buteven more complex than that,
have they produced within thedeal box or the buy box of the
clients that I represent, ifthey have, I've got somebody who
can add value for my clients,for the marketplace that I
(07:15):
serve, if they haven't, there'sa disconnect there. And so it's
my job as the market master tosay, hey, tell me about
production. Tell me about whereyou've won. Let me make sure
that I'm connecting the dots ina way that's going to be
meaningful and recognized forthe value that you bring. And so
(07:35):
I've got to uncover that with acandidate and understand that
and a deep level. If I'm ageneralist who doesn't really
deeply know one niche overanother, that's a lot harder. So
if you're somebody who doesaccounting, recruiting,
commercial, CNI, recruiting,mortgage, recruiting, all of
these things, that's great ifyou don't have enough depth to
(07:58):
talk shop with somebody andunderstand what kinds of deals
they actually do and where youcould take them, or that would
add value. That'll be harderwith credit and operations. I
think a lot of it comes down toefficiency and proficiency. Are
they efficient at what they doin credit decisioning from a
(08:19):
timeline perspective, but also,do they have a complexity of
understanding of different dealtypes, where they can actually
get in and truly decision dealsbased on the experience that
they have? For me, a lot oftimes, somebody who is a MPC as
a credit candidate, they need tobe a little bit more
experienced, because if they'renot, it's a lot harder to
(08:42):
showcase that talent and to say,hey, based on their experience,
they're going to add XYZ andvalue. And then the same is, you
know, generally true of peoplein operations and other
capacities. It's it's a lot ofjust, they've had experience in
key areas that I know bringvalue to my clients. And then,
on top of all that, I would justsay that their resume really
(09:04):
matters. A resume for a starcandidate has to look like
someone who hasn't moved arounda lot. You know, there's
occasions where a quick stintsomewhere can be explained, and
that's okay. But again, I needto understand their story in a
way that can be conveyed in away that's understood and
accepted. And then the lastthing is just compensation.
(09:26):
Because as much as we're talkingabout representing candidates,
our primary responsibility isstill our clients, which is
sometimes hard to think about.When you're thinking about, hey,
I'm representing talent andtrying to go place them in the
market, you still have toethically understand, hey, my
primary job is to solve a needfor my client, and a lot of that
(09:47):
comes down to simple math. Doesthis candidate? Are they someone
who's affordable? Are theysomeone who's commanding a
salary that the market willsupport again, if I'm not
niched? I don't know my. Market.I may not be able to answer that
question, and I may not actuallyable to add value to my client,
because if I bring them someonethey can't afford, that's great
(10:09):
that this candidates a rockstar, they can produce, they add
all this efficiency value, butif they aren't in the budget for
what the client can pay, I'mwasting a lot of people's time.
Stephanie Maas (10:18):
So let me ask you this; when you're
approaching a candidate andyou're not specifically calling
on behalf of a search, which iswhat a lot of us do. How do you
get the candidate engaged? Howdo you even set up this MPC
relationship?
Derek Schlender (10:33):
Yeah, that's a great question. I think again,
I'm going to probably beat thishorse the whole time, but being
very specialized is the key,because if you get a phone call
from someone who is specializedto represent the niche you
literally operate in as acandidate, as a professional,
and someone calls you, it's adifferent conversation when you
(10:54):
can convey to them, Hey, theonly space I recruit in is your
world. And so what I'm going todo first and foremost is I'm
going to pursue understandingyou as a professional before we
I mean, whether or not I have anopportunity that I'm recruiting
for or not that for me is theright approach, even if I'm
taking a search to market,because it's going to take me
(11:16):
some time to truly understand ifyou're the right fit for this
Search. So even if there's asearch, Hey, I am specialized.
I'm niche, specific. Let meunderstand your situation, and
as we develop that relationshipwith the candidate, the beauty
is the value we bring to ourclients. It's not going after
people who are thanking God thatyou called them on that Tuesday
(11:39):
afternoon. It's the people whodidn't really have time to talk
to you, but they start to catch,oh, there's value in talking to
this recruiter, because they areactually in my space, even if
it's a quick conversation, Iwant to keep in touch with them.
So it's very relationallydriven. Again, it's a value
proposition to the candidatethat, hey, whether or not I go
(12:02):
take you to one of my clientsright now, we need to know each
other, even for long termrelationship. And so that's the
approach that I take. And thenfrom there, again, being
specialized, you can pick up onthings that are causing pain
when you hear how things areactually going well. Derek, it's
been a good year. I've producedX amount in volume. The only
(12:24):
frustration is it's caught. It'staking 60 days decision to deal.
Hang on, that's a huge red flag.But I only know that if I truly
know the time frame it ought totake for a lender to decision
transactions so things likethat. As you're talking to
someone and they're engagingwith you, you can say, Hey, can
I provide some feedback based onmy expertise in the market? I
(12:46):
think you're in a place that'skind of preventing you from
being the best you could be. Youmind if I give you some
feedback? And so it's developinga relationship of trust based on
expertise.
Stephanie Maas (12:58):
So that gets the candidates engaged. What about
the client side? If everybody'shiring, if everybody needs these
people, how do you determineyour target list?
Derek Schlender (13:08):
That's a great question. So a lot of it, for
me, is just paying attention ina number of ways. It's
absolutely paying attention towho's producing at different
levels, who are the top placesthat are competitively looking
to be in the top 10 in thecountry, top 20 in the country,
and having a relationshipdeveloped with those hiring
managers to understand, how areyou going about that? What kind
(13:30):
of talent is it going to takefor you to achieve your goals?
Do you have the support in yourback office to support the
production you're looking tohave? But it's also
understanding what are the kindof new to market, new to the
stage, players who may not haveas much volume publicly traced
where it's like, Hey, you'reactually going to be a player in
the next two to three years. Butknowing the people in your
(13:53):
niche, it's achieved through anumber of things. It's what I
just talked about in terms ofthe rankings. It's attending
conferences and actually gettingin front of your market and
getting to know the people inyour space. But it's, again,
it's very relational, and it'sasking, Hey, what do you need
right now? But where are youheaded? What are you going to
need? And the next year, if Icame across a top qualified
(14:16):
candidate in the market is thatsomeone you would want to have a
confidential conversation about,every hiring manager you talk to
is going to say yes, but again,it comes back down to can you
actually produce that and valueto them? And so if you can come
back to the table and say, Hey,I really urge you, when you and
I talked about the talent thatit's going to take for you to
(14:37):
get where you're headed, andgive them some feedback that you
actually have the talent thatthey're looking for 10 times out
of 10. Those those clients wantto have a conversation with you
about that. The challenge formost of my clients is not paying
a fee to a recruiter or evengoing the search route. It's
working with recruiters whodon't bring them candidates who
(14:57):
are well vetted, who actuallyyou. Solve a need, or actually,
like thrust them toward yourgoal. So it's connecting those
two dots. But again, I thinkit's a lot of relational
business developmentconversations that are not just
centered around, what search doyou have for me today? But let's
have a business conversationaround where are you trying to
get to? What type of people aregoing to help you get there?
Stephanie Maas (15:19):
Dang. Just listening to you talk, it is so
evident how you are so good atwhat you do. Okay, so my last
question is, you've got thisexpertise. You approach
candidates in a very relationalway, you approach clients in a
very relational way, all underthe umbrella of this MPC model,
which a lot of folks feel often,can be transactional, but you
(15:42):
just walked us through how it'snot. What kind of feedback have
you gotten from folks thatyou've worked with about this process?
Derek Schlender (15:51):
It's honestly been extremely positive. And one
of the things I love most aboutthe world we live in is we have
something called LinkedIn.
Stephanie Maas (16:00):
Is it on the World Wide Web?
Derek Schlender (16:01):
It is. It is actually the website. But every
placement I make, it's part ofmy process. I ask first for the
candidates I place to leave me areview, and thankfully, almost
everyone is so willing to dothat, and the feedback I've
consistently had is they justlove the ethical experience that
they have. And that'sinteresting to me, that that
(16:22):
comes to light so frequently,because you would think that
ethics or something that everyrecruiter considered to be a
high priority, but it's justnot. And I think what it comes
down to is a lot of recruitersdon't really know what else to
do with a resume, than to go runto their clients and try to put
it in front of them. And so forme, it's a lot different than
(16:44):
that. So much of what I do isit's not spaghetti on the wall,
it's not resume spamming. It'svery much a partnership with
candidates in the market aroundhey, let's work together in
developing a wish list oforganizations that you want to
go to. I'm going to come to thetable with recommendations. I
expect you to come to the tablewith dreams and desires. We're
(17:06):
going to put that together andcome come up with a list of
target organizations. The resultis, you're going to get in front
of the organizations you want toget in front of. And a lot of
times, it's people who they haveall of the qualifications, all
of the resume to get them thejob, but they don't have the
connections. It's the timing,it's the coaching, it's the
(17:28):
representation at the offerstage. It's giving voice to this
is what the market's supporting.You need to be paid X amount to
right size, you get you paidwhat you're worth, or it's Hey,
you're paid very competitively.Let's go get you an opportunity
that lets you maximize yourincentive compensation to make
you a lot more money all in it'sthat expertise, and without
(17:50):
that, it's open season. They'reon their own. They don't have
representation, and so manypeople I work with have had that
experience. They would muchrather have a advocate working
with them, but somebody who'sreally a guide, a trusted
advisor, someone who's not justgoing out there and saying, Hey,
let me go. I'll keep you postedon what I get for you in terms
(18:12):
of an opportunity to interview.But no, let's go. Target an
organization we agree on. You'rein charge. I'm going to guide
you there, and let's get theretogether. So the feedback I've
gotten is that that's reallyvalue for a candidate. They
appreciate that. They don't getthat from everyone. And so I
feel really good about the workthat I do based on that feedback.
Stephanie Maas (18:34):
And I bet, too, from the client's perspective,
you showing up with an MPC, isnot you just showing up with a
resume saying, Hey, you do thework, you do the vetting, and
I'm just sending you thisresume, and I hope you send me
25% if you hire them. I gottaimagine the feedback from the
clients is super similar. Hey,we know we're looking for
talent, but you brought us thetalent that's spot on for what
(18:55):
we need to achieve our goals. Iimagine you get some feedback
that it's a game changer thatway too for you.
Derek Schlender (19:01):
For sure, for sure. And I'd say too that like
I think most organizations wouldlike to have the unlimited time,
unlimited bandwidth, to takeeverything, to search and
competitively select a slate ofcandidates and pick the best
one. And I mean, that's an idealworld, right? We want that on
paper, but in the reality ofwhat we are dealing with is you
have a goal to meet by intoquarter one. It's the beginning
(19:24):
of March. Your top producer justcollected his bonus and left for
whatever reason. What are yougoing to do? Can you go to
search? Can you go find thatslate of candidates? Can you go
through that full process? Well,what if someone called you and
said, Hey, I've got someone whocan produce at a level that's
equivalent to what your topproducer was producing at who
(19:44):
wouldn't want to have thatconversation. So again, it's a
time saver and a money saver,because the time it takes to
take an opportunity to search,you're losing money on that top
producers revenue. And so a lotof it is it's a monetarily
efficient way to select toptalent, but. Again, I think the
clients that I work with valuethe industry expertise so that
they know when I bring them acandidate, it's not just
(20:07):
someone's resume that I got froma job posting.
Stephanie Maas (20:10):
Man, that says a tremendous amount. Anything else
that you think right now iscritical for our listener to
know or be aware of when itcomes to elevating the MPC
approach to the market?
Derek Schlender (20:24):
Stephanie, you probably said this already, but
I think the overarchingprinciple is that good
recruiters are good listeners.Great recruiters are phenomenal
listeners. And with everythingI'm talking about, if you don't
go in with a really activelistening mindset, you're only
going to be able to default totransactional recruiting, but if
(20:45):
you can really listen and reallylearn from every conversation,
you become someone who isincredibly valuable to your
marketplace and to thecandidates you recruit. So
that's it. I mean, it's Listen,listen, listen and do something
with what you learn.
Stephanie Maas (21:00):
Love it. Derek, thank you so much for being here
sharing some of your wisdom. Iknow that there's a lot more to come.
Welcome to The Talent Trade. I am Stephanie
(00:03):
Maas, your host, partner atThinkingAhead Executive Search,
and today, I am super excited;incredible guest speaker with
us. What makes him incredible isnot just what he has done in the
executive search world, but it'salso who he is outside of the
(00:24):
office. In fact, he became ourteam mascot, Team Labradoodle.
And then when you think of aLabradoodle, certain things come
to mind. Nobody doesn't like aLabradoodle. Everybody loves a
Labradoodle. Nobody has issues.Even if they have dog allergies
or sensitivities, they are stilla Okay, meaning, if you've got
(00:44):
personal problems or issues,you're still okay with the
Labradoodle. Everybody lovesDerek. Nobody has issues with
him. Consistently producing canbe counted on, and has really
elevated our team since hejoined us. So Derek Schlender,
take us from here. Thanks somuch, Derek for being with us.
Derek Schlender (01:04):
Wow, thank you. Stephanie. Team mascot wasn't
something I expected, but youknow, sometimes you just get
these little delights in lifethat you just gotta roll with it
and embrace it. So it's an honorto be here. Thanks for having
me. And I think the last sixyears, they've been probably the
highlight, just from aprofessional standpoint for me,
not just the work that we do,but the people that I get to do
(01:26):
it with. But yeah, I focus onSBA recruiting for our banking
team. Run that niche nationally.Personally, my family, we reside
in Athens, Georgia. Go Dogs.Family of five. We have a nine
year old, seven year old and atwo year old. So my my world is
beautiful chaos right now.
Stephanie Maas (01:45):
I love it. So today, what I have asked Derek
to come and talk and speak to issomething that, in his niche and
in his world, he has not justrevolutionized, but truly
elevated in a way that nobodyprior to him has ever done, and
that is the MPC approach todriving business. He came in and
(02:12):
started figuring out that therewas this niche that he just
found his way to and really tookit and ran with it, and a big
part, a tremendous part, of histremendous success, it's the MPC
that he's really perfected. So Iwant to start there and have
Derek really walk us throughwhat made you pursue this MPC
(02:33):
approach to your market. How doyou consistently build it such a
high level with an MPC approach?And again, it's not all that you
do, but I know it's themajority, so just kind of give
us some history and then get usinto the details, man.
Derek Schlender (02:46):
Absolutely. So as I got started in search, a
big conversation between mymentor and myself and just our
team in general, was talkingabout, hey, what's going on in
the market in terms of whatdrives it? Is it client driven?
Is it candidate driven? Do wesee that swing from year to
year? The thing that really cameto light with SBA as a niche is
(03:10):
that it was incredibly candidatedriven. And I guess the best way
to think about that from a macroperspective is just simple
supply and demand. My niche inSBA lending tends this way,
largely because there's been ahigh number of baby boomer
generation bankers who have beenretiring. There's just not been
as many Gen X millennial youknow, there's just not enough
(03:33):
people getting into banking tooutnumber those that have been
retiring. And so over the last10 to 15 years, that's resulted
in this growing bubble of demandwhere there's just a lot more
need than there is talent. Andso that's resulted in something
for me that's just sustainablybeen candidate driven. I haven't
really had a lot of clientdriven moments in my time so
(03:58):
far. You know, there'sdefinitely been clients who have
said, Hey, Derek, you're therecruiter we want to work with
exclusively. You know, there'sjust some roles that have to go
to search, but the lion's shareof what my market needs is the
talent, and it's on a constantbasis. And so kind of this
supply and demand idea. Youknow, with demand so high and
(04:19):
supply so low if you can gobring to your clients what
they're needing, that's kind ofwhat I would define as candidate
driven.
Stephanie Maas (04:26):
Super helpful. So we figured this out, that
it's candidate driven. Now what?
Derek Schlender (04:32):
Yeah, so it's candidate driven. I think what
appealed to me a lot coming tothinking ahead, was that we are
not generalist recruiters, andso you've got a lot of banking
recruiters in the marketplace, alot of finance recruiters, but
very few of them are trulymarket masters. Is what I would
say. We kind of call it as aniche expert. And so when I was
(04:55):
starting off, and frankly,anyone who's gotten their start
in search, you don't know. Whatyour niche is, until you really
cut your teeth and you get asense of, where can I win, where
can I go, add value. And so Ijust started to pull, what we
call pull the thread in themarket. Like you see a thread,
you start to pull it, and what,what comes of that is you start
(05:16):
to get traction. And so where Iwas getting traction was SBA
lending. What's unique is wewere heading into the pandemic
as I was gaining traction. Andso what happened is everyone
stopped coming into the office.The Marketplace, basically
overnight, was completelyremote. And so while SBA lending
(05:36):
is a national product, anational program, I was thrust
into a market that was even morenational by nature of everyone
being remote, it didn't matterwhere you lived, as long as a
company got hired in your state.And so that just became more and
more of a focus, almost as aproduct of just circumstances
(05:57):
around the pandemic. That's kindof where it all started for me.
Stephanie Maas (06:01):
So when you're in this candidate driven world,
and MPC is your primary focus,what are some of the criteria
that, from your perspective,make a candidate extremely
marketable?
Derek Schlender (06:13):
That's a great question, and I think that's the
most important question, becausewhen it comes to marketing
talent, why are they marketable?Why are why is there value?
That's an important question. Sofor me, you know, you've got
kind of multiple candidate typesthat you are looking for in the
world of finance. You've gotpeople who are, what, you know,
(06:33):
straight up and down, revenuecontributors that are directly
tied to the bottom lineprofitability. You've got people
who are in the background, backoffice, people, credit
operations. So for me, it'sdifferent, depending on what
type of candidate it may be. Butto put it simply, if someone's a
revenue contributor, have theyproduced is number one, have
(06:54):
they produced at a level that isrecognized by the marketplace as
impressive, as meaningful, buteven more complex than that,
have they produced within thedeal box or the buy box of the
clients that I represent, ifthey have, I've got somebody who
can add value for my clients,for the marketplace that I
(07:15):
serve, if they haven't, there'sa disconnect there. And so it's
my job as the market master tosay, hey, tell me about
production. Tell me about whereyou've won. Let me make sure
that I'm connecting the dots ina way that's going to be
meaningful and recognized forthe value that you bring. And so
(07:35):
I've got to uncover that with acandidate and understand that
and a deep level. If I'm ageneralist who doesn't really
deeply know one niche overanother, that's a lot harder. So
if you're somebody who doesaccounting, recruiting,
commercial, CNI, recruiting,mortgage, recruiting, all of
these things, that's great ifyou don't have enough depth to
(07:58):
talk shop with somebody andunderstand what kinds of deals
they actually do and where youcould take them, or that would
add value. That'll be harderwith credit and operations. I
think a lot of it comes down toefficiency and proficiency. Are
they efficient at what they doin credit decisioning from a
(08:19):
timeline perspective, but also,do they have a complexity of
understanding of different dealtypes, where they can actually
get in and truly decision dealsbased on the experience that
they have? For me, a lot oftimes, somebody who is a MPC as
a credit candidate, they need tobe a little bit more
experienced, because if they'renot, it's a lot harder to
(08:42):
showcase that talent and to say,hey, based on their experience,
they're going to add XYZ andvalue. And then the same is, you
know, generally true of peoplein operations and other
capacities. It's it's a lot ofjust, they've had experience in
key areas that I know bringvalue to my clients. And then,
on top of all that, I would justsay that their resume really
(09:04):
matters. A resume for a starcandidate has to look like
someone who hasn't moved arounda lot. You know, there's
occasions where a quick stintsomewhere can be explained, and
that's okay. But again, I needto understand their story in a
way that can be conveyed in away that's understood and
accepted. And then the lastthing is just compensation.
(09:26):
Because as much as we're talkingabout representing candidates,
our primary responsibility isstill our clients, which is
sometimes hard to think about.When you're thinking about, hey,
I'm representing talent andtrying to go place them in the
market, you still have toethically understand, hey, my
primary job is to solve a needfor my client, and a lot of that
(09:47):
comes down to simple math. Doesthis candidate? Are they someone
who's affordable? Are theysomeone who's commanding a
salary that the market willsupport again, if I'm not
niched? I don't know my. Market.I may not be able to answer that
question, and I may not actuallyable to add value to my client,
because if I bring them someonethey can't afford, that's great
(10:09):
that this candidates a rockstar, they can produce, they add
all this efficiency value, butif they aren't in the budget for
what the client can pay, I'mwasting a lot of people's time.
Stephanie Maas (10:18):
So let me ask you this; when you're
approaching a candidate andyou're not specifically calling
on behalf of a search, which iswhat a lot of us do. How do you
get the candidate engaged? Howdo you even set up this MPC
relationship?
Derek Schlender (10:33):
Yeah, that's a great question. I think again,
I'm going to probably beat thishorse the whole time, but being
very specialized is the key,because if you get a phone call
from someone who is specializedto represent the niche you
literally operate in as acandidate, as a professional,
and someone calls you, it's adifferent conversation when you
(10:54):
can convey to them, Hey, theonly space I recruit in is your
world. And so what I'm going todo first and foremost is I'm
going to pursue understandingyou as a professional before we
I mean, whether or not I have anopportunity that I'm recruiting
for or not that for me is theright approach, even if I'm
taking a search to market,because it's going to take me
(11:16):
some time to truly understand ifyou're the right fit for this
Search. So even if there's asearch, Hey, I am specialized.
I'm niche, specific. Let meunderstand your situation, and
as we develop that relationshipwith the candidate, the beauty
is the value we bring to ourclients. It's not going after
people who are thanking God thatyou called them on that Tuesday
(11:39):
afternoon. It's the people whodidn't really have time to talk
to you, but they start to catch,oh, there's value in talking to
this recruiter, because they areactually in my space, even if
it's a quick conversation, Iwant to keep in touch with them.
So it's very relationallydriven. Again, it's a value
proposition to the candidatethat, hey, whether or not I go
(12:02):
take you to one of my clientsright now, we need to know each
other, even for long termrelationship. And so that's the
approach that I take. And thenfrom there, again, being
specialized, you can pick up onthings that are causing pain
when you hear how things areactually going well. Derek, it's
been a good year. I've producedX amount in volume. The only
(12:24):
frustration is it's caught. It'staking 60 days decision to deal.
Hang on, that's a huge red flag.But I only know that if I truly
know the time frame it ought totake for a lender to decision
transactions so things likethat. As you're talking to
someone and they're engagingwith you, you can say, Hey, can
I provide some feedback based onmy expertise in the market? I
(12:46):
think you're in a place that'skind of preventing you from
being the best you could be. Youmind if I give you some
feedback? And so it's developinga relationship of trust based on
expertise.
Stephanie Maas (12:58):
So that gets the candidates engaged. What about
the client side? If everybody'shiring, if everybody needs these
people, how do you determineyour target list?
Derek Schlender (13:08):
That's a great question. So a lot of it, for
me, is just paying attention ina number of ways. It's
absolutely paying attention towho's producing at different
levels, who are the top placesthat are competitively looking
to be in the top 10 in thecountry, top 20 in the country,
and having a relationshipdeveloped with those hiring
managers to understand, how areyou going about that? What kind
(13:30):
of talent is it going to takefor you to achieve your goals?
Do you have the support in yourback office to support the
production you're looking tohave? But it's also
understanding what are the kindof new to market, new to the
stage, players who may not haveas much volume publicly traced
where it's like, Hey, you'reactually going to be a player in
the next two to three years. Butknowing the people in your
(13:53):
niche, it's achieved through anumber of things. It's what I
just talked about in terms ofthe rankings. It's attending
conferences and actually gettingin front of your market and
getting to know the people inyour space. But it's, again,
it's very relational, and it'sasking, Hey, what do you need
right now? But where are youheaded? What are you going to
need? And the next year, if Icame across a top qualified
(14:16):
candidate in the market is thatsomeone you would want to have a
confidential conversation about,every hiring manager you talk to
is going to say yes, but again,it comes back down to can you
actually produce that and valueto them? And so if you can come
back to the table and say, Hey,I really urge you, when you and
I talked about the talent thatit's going to take for you to
(14:37):
get where you're headed, andgive them some feedback that you
actually have the talent thatthey're looking for 10 times out
of 10. Those those clients wantto have a conversation with you
about that. The challenge formost of my clients is not paying
a fee to a recruiter or evengoing the search route. It's
working with recruiters whodon't bring them candidates who
(14:57):
are well vetted, who actuallyyou. Solve a need, or actually,
like thrust them toward yourgoal. So it's connecting those
two dots. But again, I thinkit's a lot of relational
business developmentconversations that are not just
centered around, what search doyou have for me today? But let's
have a business conversationaround where are you trying to
get to? What type of people aregoing to help you get there?
Stephanie Maas (15:19):
Dang. Just listening to you talk, it is so
evident how you are so good atwhat you do. Okay, so my last
question is, you've got thisexpertise. You approach
candidates in a very relationalway, you approach clients in a
very relational way, all underthe umbrella of this MPC model,
which a lot of folks feel often,can be transactional, but you
(15:42):
just walked us through how it'snot. What kind of feedback have
you gotten from folks thatyou've worked with about this process?
Derek Schlender (15:51):
It's honestly been extremely positive. And one
of the things I love most aboutthe world we live in is we have
something called LinkedIn.
Stephanie Maas (16:00):
Is it on the World Wide Web?
Derek Schlender (16:01):
It is. It is actually the website. But every
placement I make, it's part ofmy process. I ask first for the
candidates I place to leave me areview, and thankfully, almost
everyone is so willing to dothat, and the feedback I've
consistently had is they justlove the ethical experience that
they have. And that'sinteresting to me, that that
(16:22):
comes to light so frequently,because you would think that
ethics or something that everyrecruiter considered to be a
high priority, but it's justnot. And I think what it comes
down to is a lot of recruitersdon't really know what else to
do with a resume, than to go runto their clients and try to put
it in front of them. And so forme, it's a lot different than
(16:44):
that. So much of what I do isit's not spaghetti on the wall,
it's not resume spamming. It'svery much a partnership with
candidates in the market aroundhey, let's work together in
developing a wish list oforganizations that you want to
go to. I'm going to come to thetable with recommendations. I
expect you to come to the tablewith dreams and desires. We're
(17:06):
going to put that together andcome come up with a list of
target organizations. The resultis, you're going to get in front
of the organizations you want toget in front of. And a lot of
times, it's people who they haveall of the qualifications, all
of the resume to get them thejob, but they don't have the
connections. It's the timing,it's the coaching, it's the
(17:28):
representation at the offerstage. It's giving voice to this
is what the market's supporting.You need to be paid X amount to
right size, you get you paidwhat you're worth, or it's Hey,
you're paid very competitively.Let's go get you an opportunity
that lets you maximize yourincentive compensation to make
you a lot more money all in it'sthat expertise, and without
(17:50):
that, it's open season. They'reon their own. They don't have
representation, and so manypeople I work with have had that
experience. They would muchrather have a advocate working
with them, but somebody who'sreally a guide, a trusted
advisor, someone who's not justgoing out there and saying, Hey,
let me go. I'll keep you postedon what I get for you in terms
(18:12):
of an opportunity to interview.But no, let's go. Target an
organization we agree on. You'rein charge. I'm going to guide
you there, and let's get theretogether. So the feedback I've
gotten is that that's reallyvalue for a candidate. They
appreciate that. They don't getthat from everyone. And so I
feel really good about the workthat I do based on that feedback.
Stephanie Maas (18:34):
And I bet, too, from the client's perspective,
you showing up with an MPC, isnot you just showing up with a
resume saying, Hey, you do thework, you do the vetting, and
I'm just sending you thisresume, and I hope you send me
25% if you hire them. I gottaimagine the feedback from the
clients is super similar. Hey,we know we're looking for
talent, but you brought us thetalent that's spot on for what
(18:55):
we need to achieve our goals. Iimagine you get some feedback
that it's a game changer thatway too for you.
Derek Schlender (19:01):
For sure, for sure. And I'd say too that like
I think most organizations wouldlike to have the unlimited time,
unlimited bandwidth, to takeeverything, to search and
competitively select a slate ofcandidates and pick the best
one. And I mean, that's an idealworld, right? We want that on
paper, but in the reality ofwhat we are dealing with is you
have a goal to meet by intoquarter one. It's the beginning
(19:24):
of March. Your top producer justcollected his bonus and left for
whatever reason. What are yougoing to do? Can you go to
search? Can you go find thatslate of candidates? Can you go
through that full process? Well,what if someone called you and
said, Hey, I've got someone whocan produce at a level that's
equivalent to what your topproducer was producing at who
(19:44):
wouldn't want to have thatconversation. So again, it's a
time saver and a money saver,because the time it takes to
take an opportunity to search,you're losing money on that top
producers revenue. And so a lotof it is it's a monetarily
efficient way to select toptalent, but. Again, I think the
clients that I work with valuethe industry expertise so that
they know when I bring them acandidate, it's not just
(20:07):
someone's resume that I got froma job posting.
Stephanie Maas (20:10):
Man, that says a tremendous amount. Anything else
that you think right now iscritical for our listener to
know or be aware of when itcomes to elevating the MPC
approach to the market?
Derek Schlender (20:24):
Stephanie, you probably said this already, but
I think the overarchingprinciple is that good
recruiters are good listeners.Great recruiters are phenomenal
listeners. And with everythingI'm talking about, if you don't
go in with a really activelistening mindset, you're only
going to be able to default totransactional recruiting, but if
(20:45):
you can really listen and reallylearn from every conversation,
you become someone who isincredibly valuable to your
marketplace and to thecandidates you recruit. So
that's it. I mean, it's Listen,listen, listen and do something
with what you learn.
Stephanie Maas (21:00):
Love it. Derek, thank you so much for being here
sharing some of your wisdom. Iknow that there's a lot more to come.
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