Turning Healthcare Data Into Usable Intelligence & Patient Advocacy - Jennifer Johnson & Brent Dover
November 20, 2025 • 33 mins
From a bootstrap founder using spreadsheets to track her own cancer treatment to a data infrastructure veteran start-up leader uncovering $10-15 billion in hidden healthcare value—this episode of The Tech Glow Up features conversations with two entrepreneurial CEO’s solving what happens when you center patient empowerment and unlock trapped data live from HLTH 2025.
Jennifer Johnson, CEO and founder of JennJ Health and Fitness, has spent 15 years in healthcare operations, strategy, and oncology data analytics. Then she was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer at 38—a diagnosis that disproportionately affects Black women who are 40% more likely to die from the disease. Advocates for herself, found her own lump, pushed for screening—and survived.
That diagnosis became her founding insight. She built Fitness Can on a spreadsheet during treatment, combining her data analytics expertise with her lived experience. The app helps breast cancer patients and HRT users track fitness, medications, and appointments with full transparency and agency.
Brent Dover, CEO of Carta Healthcare, has spent 35 years solving healthcare data problems. He discovered his superpowers early: finding a founder with a great idea at the moment it's taking shape, then scaling it. He's built four companies by knowing exactly where he adds value—the five-to-fifty stage where innovation meets infrastructure.
His insight: zero-to-five is the bet-it-all visionary; five-to-fifty is the infrastructure builder; fifty-to-five-hundred is the strategist. He's the five-to-fifty guy. Now at Carta, Dover is tackling healthcare's biggest hidden data problem: hospitals spend $10-15 billion annually paying humans to manually abstract data from unstructured clinical notes into quality registries.
Highlights from Jennifer Johnson at JennJ Health and Fitness:
- 15 years in healthcare operations, strategy, oncology data analytics; diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer at 38; 40% more likely to die due to being a Black woman
- Created Fitness Can on spreadsheet during treatment; secured UCSF grant to launch free; now available in Apple Store
- Spicy take: Women's health is on the rise—clinical trials, studies, innovation, solutions finally moving from afterthought to center stage
Highlights from Brent Dover at Carta Healthcare:
- 35 years in healthcare data companies; discovered his five-to-fifty scaling superpowers; fourth company he's building from inception
- Solving $10-15 billion problem: hospitals paying humans to abstract unstructured clinical data into quality registry forms
- Strategy: AI co-piloted by clinicians validates output, transforming manual tax into structured data for analytics, process improvement, and better patient care
The result: healthcare innovation that centers patient voice and unlocks the data that's been trapped, waiting to improve care.
A "glow up" signifies a positive transformation, reflecting the journey of becoming a better, more successful version of oneself.
At The Tech Glow Up, we humanize the startup and innovation landscape by focusing on the essential aspects of the entrepreneurial journey. Groundbreaking ideas are often ahead of their time, making resilience and perseverance vital for founders and product leaders.
In our podcast, we engage with innovators to discuss their transformative ideas, the challenges they face, and how they create value for future success.
If you're a founder or product leader seeking your own glow up, or a seasoned entrepreneur with stories to share, we invite you to join our guest list via this link.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nathan C (00:00):
We're gonna clap.
(00:01):
So 1, 2, 3.
Hello and welcome to the HLTHTech Glow Up.
I'm Nathan C, and today I'mtalking with Jennifer Johnson of
Gen J Health and Fitness.
This is a second time Glow Upappearance, so I'm excited to
check in, on what you've been upto.
Welcome back to the glow up.
(00:22):
Jennifer.
Jennifer Johnson (00:22):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be back
Nathan C (00:25):
So let's just start with introductions.
for those who might be hearing.
About your work, for the firsttime now, can you introduce, who
you are and what you do at JennJHealth and Fitness?
Jennifer Johnson (00:35):
Absolutely.
So I'm Jennifer Johnson.
I'm the CEO and founder of JennJHealth and Fitness, which is a
consulting company that's builton the belief that everyone
deserves access to healthyequitable care.
We launched Fitness Can, it's afitness app for breast cancer
patients to support them withtheir fitness journey before,
during, and after treatment.
Nathan C (00:56):
Amazing.
Let's talk about you as aninnovator.
Before we get into some of thoseupdates and others, can you
remind us about, what startedyour.
Journey in healthcare
Jennifer Johnson (01:09):
Absolutely.
So I've always been inhealthcare as a career.
I probably spent about 15 yearsof my career, in healthcare
operations, strategy,innovation.
I spent, a great good time ondata and analytics and oncology
and love the work I do.
It's always been superimpactful.
my passion to drive equitablecare has been driven in
(01:30):
everything that I've done.
ironically though, I tell peoplethis is my God setup.
I spent 15 years in oncologydata analytics.
And then after I finished withthat career and went to tech
startups, I was diagnosed withbreast cancer and it was a huge
blow.
But on the other side of that,I'm healthy, happy, and whole.
during that time is where,fitness was born on a
(01:53):
spreadsheet, but it was bornusing my, background in
healthcare, data analytics.
Nathan C (01:58):
So many conversations that I have had at Health this
week.
Have been about how seeing thedata around healthcare inspired
founders to start theirbusiness, to start their path.
Jennifer Johnson (02:16):
Absolutely.
Nathan C (02:17):
Do you have a thought about what, working in data and
information, like what aboutthat, inspired your journey into
entrepreneurism?
Jennifer Johnson (02:27):
One, I love data and it's the weirdest thing
to say, but I see it like a, Ijust love it.
I love data.
More data the better.
I love it.
So I love data and as I wasgoing through treatment, It was
therapeutic for me in a way'cause I was building it on my
own because fitness data.
Putting in my own chemoradiation treatments and
updating and tracking myself,making charts and graphs and
(02:48):
that was therapeutic for me.
But I also went into thatknowing that, one, I was
privileged and knowing theinformation, I knew where to
find clinical trial data.
I knew where to get theassistance I needed for my own
treatment.
And that's a privilege.
Most people don't have that,right?
No, most people don't understandit.
They don't have it.
I knew that I had to.
Take this in this package in away where I can give it back to
(03:09):
the world because everyoneshould have access to all the
things.
Even being, I was diagnosed atthe age of 38 with triple
negative breast cancer.
And for someone who has spent somuch of my career analyzing data
in oncology, I was surprised tofind out that as a black woman I
was 40% more likely to die frombreast cancer.
(03:31):
just because I was a blackwoman.
Not a lot of data.
And so a lot of it had to dowith, the fact that we're
diagnosed later.
I diagnosed, I found my ownlump.
I advocated for myself to get amammogram even though I wasn't
recommended.
So I was 40, but if I would'vewaited till I was 40, I might
not be here talking today.
The data, just like Dr.
Drove me to, Hey, there's abunch of different issues I see
(03:52):
here that need to be tackled andwe, I can't tackle them all,
obviously, but what can I do?
So what I can do is I can buildsomething to help other patients
like myself, track their data.
Be empowered to know this is,your body and your treatment and
this is your journey.
So make it work for you and havethe data in the inside.
(04:13):
To drive those decisions.
Nathan C (04:17):
I, I'm just gonna give that a little bit of space that
I so appreciate that.
And there's this like reallyinteresting comparison that I'm
balancing in my brain where somany of I've talked to so many,
like really consumer, patient.
Focused product leaders.
And often what they talk aboutis like we have to meet our
(04:39):
patients where they're at.
We need to talk with them intheir own words.
We need to meet them in thechannels that they're at.
And this journey that you'redescribing is their wildest
dream because you are startingthe innovation where you are at.
Like it's in your, you'retranslating all of that
(04:59):
healthcare information that youknow where to find it.
And you're bringing it in toyour own spreadsheet.
Yes.
To your own organization, yourown notes.
And that idea that like patientcentered care doesn't have to
like eventually make it there,but like the innovation.
Can actually start, right?
(05:20):
Like with the patient, with aspecific diagnosis, with a
specific, like I just, there'san elegance to being at the
beginning of the problem.
The patient is at the beginningof the problem rather than you
have a tech, so often in SiliconValley there's a tech solution
and then you go searchingExactly.
For the client.
Yes.
And I just love how, this thing,that these giant leaders that
(05:44):
you see on stage.
Are like advocating for andsharing is their message is like
your lived experience?
Yes.
so you teased at the top of theshow, I believe the last time
you were on the glow.
You were just starting thejourney with the Fitness Can
app.
Yes.
And taking that data, thoseframeworks, those connections
(06:07):
and resources that you've beenbuilt.
And you're starting to developthat into the Fitness Can app?
Jennifer Johnson (06:12):
Yes.
Nathan C (06:13):
People love.
To know how people's glow upshave gone.
Can you report back about whatyou've been up to?
how did your glow up go?
Jennifer Johnson (06:22):
Absolutely.
One other thing I spoke about,during that episode was one of
the hurdles I had and it wasaround funding.
Because I was, at the, like abootstrap founder and by
Bootstrap like my husband'spaying for everything.
So I was like, okay, I need toreally figure out how to fund
this.
That was like my biggest hurdle.
So I struggled with it.
'cause I really felt this iswhat God wanted me to do.
(06:44):
This is what I feel like I haveto do, but I don't have the
resources to do it.
I did what I could do with theknowledge that I have, the
network that I have as far asbuilding it out, designing,
getting the frameworks andthings like that.
following, health last year.
I was able to connect with UCSFand they gave me a grant to not
(07:07):
only launch this app, but launchit in a way where I could
provide it for free to patients.
Isn't that amazing?
Nathan C (07:15):
That's so amazing.
Jennifer Johnson (07:16):
Absolutely amazing.
Nathan C (07:17):
If I remember correctly, that was like one of
the big goals.
Yes, absolutely.
And part of what was driving,the way you were building the
model for fitness wasspecifically so that people in
need could have access And feelgood about who they were sharing
their data with.
Jennifer Johnson (07:32):
Absolutely.
And I was like, so maybe someoneover there heard.
I don't know.
But, the, it definitely likeuniversal line with me that,
with that.
And, so they were veryinstrumental in helping me to
get it launched.
It is now available in the Applestore.
Love it.
Love it.
Later this year, we got, anothergreat thing coming out as well.
(07:53):
So really excited for this workand, the fact that not only is
it available, that it'savailable to everyone.
And so in addition to, it beinga great solution for breast
cancer patients.
It's also a great solution forwomen on HRT hormone replacement
therapy.
'cause those are very similar tosome of the meds you get before
during, or even after breastcancer treatment.
(08:14):
For women on HRT, using themodel to track your fitness and
your HRT will be very helpful.
So pretty much anyone can usethe app, but, it's very
supportive for those.
In those spaces.
I encourage people to downloadit, use it, and I would love to
hear more feedback from patientsabout it.
Nathan C (08:32):
data nerd to now be collecting your own customer
data has gotta feel pretty good.
Jennifer Johnson (08:37):
It feels so good.
Nathan C (08:39):
You mentioned that fitness can, is.
Is targeted right now for breastcancer.
Are other, are women with othercancers, is the tool also
supportive and helpful for
Jennifer Johnson (08:49):
Right now it is supportive for any.
One.
Who has a heart, that beats andis also track to Apple Health,
basically.
But, and I say that because theway it is designed, and this was
linked to UCSF, the way it isdesigned is, it integrates with
your Apple Health, but.
(09:10):
you can type in the medicationor whatever you're taking
yourself.
For instance, by the grace ofGod, I'm not taking any meds,
but I do take vitamin D and Ihave that in there and I have a
reminder to remind me so I canmanually put that in there.
Got it.
so I encourage folks.
Anyone who wants to track.
Nathan C (09:29):
you're tracking your fitness, your medications
Appointments,
Jennifer Johnson (09:32):
your fitness
Nathan C (09:33):
scan is a great place.
Jennifer Johnson (09:34):
a great place for you.
Nathan C (09:35):
thank you.
Jennifer Johnson (09:35):
Yeah.
Nathan C (09:36):
I love it.
Amazing.
Thank you for that.
And congratulations.
Thank you.
It's it's amazing what a yearcan make.
When an entrepreneur puts thetime in.
and man, have you been hustling?
I love to see it.
Let's take it back to theindustry level a little bit.
I've been asking everybody what,what blow up, what major
improvement they want to see inthe healthcare, health
(10:00):
technology space.
In the next six months to ayear.
what's the challenge you havefor this industry?
Jennifer Johnson (10:07):
I have said this, and I will continue to say
access.
Access, access, access.
Every level.
Access.
Every level.
Access.
whether it's, in a ruralcommunity, having access to care
when you need it, from a payerperspective, having access to
(10:27):
care regardless of your incomelevel, whether it's education,
having access to the care youneed, information on diagnosis,
or.
even preventative measures.
access is the key to a healthyfuture.
Nathan C (10:44):
I think that might be the stinger at the top access.
Access.
Access.
Amazing.
Okay.
Bring it back down to JennJHealth and Fitness.
And fitness can, what's the glowup you're working on for your
own business in the next sixmonths?
Jennifer Johnson (11:01):
So the next.
Six months.
The focus is that targetpopulation on the app, the,
breast cancer patient or HRTuser that also wants track
fitness.
So getting more engagement onthe app, inviting other folks to
join in and, really buildingthat community up.
Is like one of the key goals forthe next season.
That's my main focus, but I'malso super excited in
(11:25):
partnership with Johnson andJohnson I will be, working on a
project called Under 40.
a Couple episodes of womentalking about diagnosis under
the age of 40.
like I mentioned myself, I wasalso diagnosed, but just the
different nuances of that.
And there's so many, how did youeven get to that point?
Preventative.
Where you at now?
(11:45):
So there's so many discussions.
It is a lot.
Nathan C (11:47):
Are you a guest or a host on that show?
A host Jennifer Johnson.
Jennifer Johnson (11:53):
know about that part,
Nathan C (11:54):
there'll healthcare influencer.
Jennifer Johnson (11:56):
We'll see.
there's gonna be six episodes.
Johnson is a, huge partner,healthy Voices.
they're really supportive, soI'm excited to have the
conversations and just speak towomen of color, that have been
through this journey there'swomen and lucky for me, I
already have kids I didn't wantanymore, but some women are just
(12:16):
going into that journey.
And having to also be diagnosedor having young kids at home and
or being pushed throughmenopause, and you weren't ready
for that and you didn't evenknow what it meant.
So there's so many differentconversations around it.
dating or marriage and sex andall the different things and
breast cancer at the same time.
Is a lot.
(12:36):
And having that space to talk tothese women and just, we're just
talking.
We're not, yeah, we're notsolving anything.
we're just healing each otherthrough talking about it and
joining in the conversation
Nathan C (12:47):
so often, right?
Like one of the biggest valuesthat like a network or a mentor
can provide is access.
To interesting people andconversations that can move a
founder forward, and I love thatthis partnership is giving you
access to all of those voices.
Jennifer Johnson (13:07):
I love that.
Nathan C (13:07):
Yeah,
Jennifer Johnson (13:08):
Thank you so much and you have also been a
huge influence for me.
Honestly, I just absolutelylove.
what you do.
I love seeing posts and all thedifferent founders on there and
they're glow up it's such agreat thing.
before my experience, workingwith you, which has been great.
I never thought about yeah, Ican host a conversation, you
(13:28):
make it look so easy.
I know it's not, but you make itlook easy.
I know it's not, but I'm reallyexcited to be at a.
Have a, it won't be, as robustas yours.
A couple conversations.
But I'm excited about it.
Nathan C (13:38):
on these conversations, we use this topic
of mentors and heroes as a wayto dive into.
How important in a founder in anentrepreneur's journey just
having one person say, Hey, Ibelieve you keep going.
That can be one of the mostvaluable moments.
Absolutely.
And I totally you got this.
(13:59):
Aw, thank you.
So keep going.
Alright, so we got through theglow ups, actually, mentors and
heroes is the next question.
Right?
Jennifer Johnson (14:07):
Awesome.
Nathan C (14:07):
theme of the HLTH event is Heroes and Legends.
I'm using that to ask peopleabout how mentors heroes, and
legends in the space have,impacted your journey.
Jennifer Johnson (14:18):
Has been a huge impact of my journey, and I
would say throughout my entirecareer, having mentors,
champions, heroes, like yousaid, legends who've done it
before have really beeninspirational, you can't be what
you can't see.
So it's oh, I could see thisperson doing it.
So it is been really great forme.
and there's so many, even hereat this conference, almost
(14:40):
everyone you speak to, it's likethey're doing heroic things.
They've done heroic things, andit's wow.
And there's so many great,everyone has a story.
And just hearing theperseverance and this, the zero
to 100.
And like you said, sometimesit's just that one person that
says, yeah, I believe you can doit.
You should go ahead and do it.
Especially, as a founder, as ahuman, sometimes you like, I
(15:03):
don't know.
What, am I doing this right?
should I be doing this?
gimme direction, gimme God, Ineed something.
and for me, it's always come atthe right time, right?
When I'm like, I don't know,I'll get you know what?
Yes, you should be doing extra.
I'm like, thank you for theconfirmation.
Nathan C (15:16):
Good timing also goes hand in hand with like very good
intuition.
Yes.
Yes it does.
I think you're building goodthings for yourself.
you are so right though, and Ihave to just like tag, right?
Being at the health conferencethere is such, an amazing focus
and.
Support for people who have beenin the medical industry,
(15:40):
patients, yes.
informaticists, who are tryingto make a contribution.
Yes.
Like the number of times thatI've been in a room with
Jennifer, who's introducedherself and said, oh, I'm in I'm
a founder, I've got a backgroundin oncology.
People will stop talking to mebecause they're like, oh, we're
having like a healthcareconversation over here.
(16:00):
People find their people.
It's just amazing to watch.
Yeah.
Okay.
one last question actually.
And it's totally optional.
Do you have a spicy healthcarehot take?
Jennifer Johnson (16:13):
A spicy healthcare hot take?
I would say For sure.
Nathan C (16:25):
Sure.
Jennifer Johnson (16:27):
Women's health is on the rise, and I'm so
thankful for it.
Talk about heroes.
I've heard on so many stages, inso many rooms of all the talk on
just support on every stage of awoman's life.
I'm talking about fromadolescence all the way through
menopause, like having thatdirect care, the clinical
(16:50):
trials, the studies, theinnovation.
The solutions that havetypically been an afterthought.
It's been so energizing for mejust to see it and it's the
future is now, like it'shappening.
There's discussions, there's,there are many pitches and I'm
not sure if you made the women'shealth startup pitch, but every
company I was like yes, we needyou.
(17:13):
It was amazing.
I'm excited to see what's nextin this industry.
Nathan C (17:17):
Women's health is on the rise
Jennifer Johnson (17:19):
Amazing.
Nathan C (17:20):
Jennifer Johnson, gen J Health and Fitness.
Founder of the Fitness Can App.
It's two time Glow Upparticipant, thank you so much
for joining me again.
Jennifer Johnson (17:32):
Thank you for having me can't wait for the
next one.
Nathan C (17:35):
wait to check in.
We've got one last thing.
Yes.
We're gonna clap it out.
Jennifer Johnson (17:39):
Okay.
Nathan C (17:39):
You ready?
1, 1, 2, 3.
Amazing.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Jennifer Johnson (17:44):
Thank you.
Nathan C (17:46):
Okay.
So 1, 2, 3.
Awesome.
Hi, and welcome to the HLTH TechGlow Up.
I'm Nathan C and today I'mtalking with Brent Dover of
Carta Healthcare.
Brent, thank you so much forjoining me today,
Brent Dover (18:02):
Nathan.
I'm so excited to talk.
Thank you, Nathan.
I'm pleased to be here.
Nathan C (18:04):
Amazing.
First things first coming to agiant health technology event
means that the first days arefilled with introductions.
So can you start us off andintroduce yourself and the work
that you do at CartaHealthcarecare sure.
Like you said, I'm Brent Dover.
I've been in the industry forabout 35 years.
(18:25):
And I started off working in areally big company in laboratory
Information Systems, which in 1993, 4 5 was the first part of
healthcare clinical technologyto really get automated Oh, yep.
In the laboratory of all things.
Yeah.
And you have a lot of control.
(18:45):
Yeah.
You got a lot going on there.
And our industry is just.
Dramatically expanded eversince, obviously.
Anyway, so I've been in theindustry a really long time and
my sweet spot is I love findinga founder who's got a really
good idea and their idea isstarting to take shape, but they
need some help really growingthat company.
(19:06):
Carta is the fourth such companythat I've been a part of.
Okay.
Brent Dover (19:11):
Yeah.
Nathan C (19:12):
That like finding a good idea and shepherding those
into successful companiescouldn't be how you started as
an entrepreneur.
That's like a gift that.
Somebody who's done it a fewtimes Can you talk about the
inspiration that got you excitedto, to start technologies and
companies?
Yeah, you bet.
Brent Dover (19:32):
I guess it's always just wanting to solve whatever
the next problem is, and once acompany gets big enough to a
certain stage.
For me, my skillset is not quiteas strong though, if we're being
honest about it.
I went to a conference one timeand I was told by a semi-famous
investor, Hey, there's zero tofive people, there's five to 50
(19:56):
people, and there's 50 to 500people.
And in the growth of a companythat could be millions of
dollars of revenue, it could benumber of customers, it could be
number of employees.
It's just magnitude.
Yeah.
And do you mind if I talk alittle bit more about that?
No, I'm, I have follows up.
That's the only reason.
Yeah.
So what's a zero to five?
Zero to five Is the idea person,somebody who's willing to like,
bet it all to mortgage theirhome to take incredible chances
(20:19):
on this idea that they're superpassionate about?
That's not me.
Five to 50 guy is I took thatbig chance.
Somebody took that big chance,they got a company and now we
need to figure out how do wescale?
How do we like?
The innovator is oftentimes notthe grower, the procedure
(20:40):
builder.
The infrastructure enabler.
For whatever reason, and Ilearned this about myself,
that's who I am, but I'm alsonot the 50 to 500 guy who's the
50 to 500 guy.
That's the person who's likefiguring out, Hey, I need a
three year strategic plan.
(21:01):
I'd rather figure out what arewe gonna do in the next three
months?
How are we really gonna makestuff happen?
So just over time, I justfigured out that's who I am.
Nathan C (21:09):
I love that.
I'm curious, most CEOs aren't.
Typically known to be the kindof persona who hears a piece of
advice.
And the way this was framed toyou I think was very generous,
right?
Hey, there's three, which areyou?
But when that idea of are you atthe right level for where your
(21:31):
passions, skills and experienceare was brought up So I'm
jumping ahead and apologies for,because you were, you're on such
a great role, but how youorganize to even share that same
understanding of the customer.
When you're beyond a coupledozen people, I like, I often
talk about 30 to 130 as like theSilicon Valley, like major pain
(21:56):
point.
'cause you're growing so fastyou don't realize you've left
your team behind and that'soften where.
A founder might figure out thatthey're not at the right stage
anymore.
So how in that like very fasttumultuous builds do row, do you
also make time to center thecustomer and to build that
(22:18):
culture where people can thinklike brands?
Brent Dover (22:22):
Okay.
It came out of frustration overthe years.
Yeah.
It's like I just found.
Marketing people would onlythink like marketing salespeople
would only think like selling.
Implementers would only thinklike implementers.
And I remember talking to one ofour teams at a time like, Hey,
what part of the helicopter doyou not want to work?
(22:42):
Like it all has to work togetherin order for the helicopter to
fly.
And so when you're in a companywith 40 employees or 80
employees, you have to motivateeverybody to care.
Yes, about what they're hired todo, but then you have to teach
them, it doesn't matter ifeverybody else isn't succeeding
(23:02):
at their job.
And mostly the reason whyeverybody else can't succeed at
their job is because we breakdown communication.
And mostly why that happens iscompanies create personal.
Or departmental incentive plansas opposed to companywide
incentive plans.
(23:22):
We can go on a long run aboutthis, but this is very
counterculture,
Nathan C (23:26):
so this is like sales gets incentivized for doing a
selling task, selling andforgetting market.
Brent Dover (23:33):
Oh, hold on.
Let's talk about sales.
I sold it.
I booked it.
I sold it.
But you know what?
I didn't really tell them allthe truth, and I set my
implementation team up for.
Failure.
That is a fireable offense.
You did not do a great job.
If the sale is not done in a waythat our customers are actually
(23:53):
gonna be successful.
Nathan C (23:55):
You gotta be thinking like Brent and get that convert.
Brent Dover (23:59):
More importantly, why don't we build, yeah.
You gotta be thinking like theexecutive team, like we need a
10, 20 year relationship.
With this hospital customer, andit starts on day one, and then
it works on implementation andit goes through customer success
and support, and the nextproduct rollouts.
It all has to come together.
And how do you do that?
(24:21):
You incentivize everybody on thegrowth of the company together.
Like it literally has to be.
We're an in it togethermentality and compensation
structure, which is very, I'vejust learned over the years lot.
Not a lot of people really agreewith me on this topic, but
(24:43):
that's how it goes.
But have all of those peoplelaunched as many companies I
would say.
My model breaks down a littlebit once you get to be a really
big company.
Fair.
Like it has to change.
Yeah.
But how do you get from leader,founder led company to scaling
(25:05):
company?
You have to have everybody inthe boat rolling together,
communicating, and you can'thave internal.
Cross culture, that's what killsmid- stage companies
Nathan C (25:15):
all the time.
We talk about silos like withinthe industry of pharma's not
talking to providers isn'ttalking, but Right.
Like it happens within a productorg or within a go-to market
team.
Absolutely does.
Goodness, Brent, we could talkforever.
This is like one of my favoritetopics.
Okay.
And like your perspective, Iwould say is fairly notable.
(25:37):
Like it's not common, correct,that somebody has both has that
perspective and the experienceof doing it a few times.
So I so appreciate.
If I have to get back to script,the name of the show is The
Health Tech Glow Up And a glowup is a notable revitalization,
a rebirth, a transformation.
(25:59):
So starting at like the industrylevel, what's a transformation
or a glow up that you arelooking for from the health tech
and health It.
space.
Brent Dover (26:10):
I can tell you what's super motivating for me
at the moment.
Yeah.
And why I'm in this company.
Is that okay?
Yep.
Perfect.
My entire career has been indata related companies,
healthcare, data relatedcompanies.
It's
Nathan C (26:22):
a good time for that.
Brent Dover (26:23):
It's been an amazing run.
Nathan C (26:24):
Yeah.
That's to your earlier point,right?
About are we actually solvingthe problems that matter?
And if you spent the firstseveral portions of your career
solving the easy part, nowthere's that 65% that you can go
after.
Yeah.
Which is really where yourcustomers are already
(26:46):
struggling.
They really are so much.
What a fantastic victory lap tobe in.
If we can get there, we gottaget there.
So you've totally led into thequestion which is next, which is
taking that idea of a glow up,how are you looking to have some
sort of audaciously fantastictransformation or success in the
next six months?
Brent Dover (27:08):
Great question.
So we thought, four years ago,hey, we should build some AI
technology that reads throughall this unstructured data and
turns into the structured data.
This is four years ago.
1200 days.
There's no way to do thatwithout a person babysitting the
(27:32):
technology.
I don't care how good thetechnology is.
Babysitting's really not theright word, but let's call it
co-piloting the technologymaking sure.
So we went out, we built allthese technologies to go read
through unstructured notes andturn it into structured data at
scale.
You couldn't really get it over40, 50, 60% accurate.
Not good enough in healthcare,not even close.
(27:56):
So this got us to say how can wesolve a real problem in
healthcare while we're.
Delivering a great ROI for ourcustomers, and we're being paid
to have a human in the loopvalidating our AI, and this is
what got us into the registryworld.
(28:19):
Okay.
Hospitals, are you familiar withregistries?
Hospitals have a huge, I call ita tax on their system.
It's a great tax.
I'm glad they're paying the tax,but the taxes, you gotta fill
out all these quality registriesfor the greater good.
That have had a huge impact onthe quality of care in our
country.
But what happens?
Nathan C (28:37):
Some standardized data, if you will,
Brent Dover (28:39):
some standardized data.
Yeah.
What happens?
It's a human being todaymanually logged in on the left
side of their screen.
Filling out a form and on theright side of their screen,
they're in Epic, they're inCerner, they're digging through
a patient's medical record,abstracting the unstructured
data into the form on the leftside.
(29:01):
So if we could build an AI toolthat is assisting those people
doing that job, and if.
Those people can then tell uswhen our technology is prompting
the right answer or the wronganswer.
We can have oversight.
We can get incredible levels ofaccuracy, and we can build a
(29:23):
systemic solution that has beenchecked.
By people who have been doingthis type of work anyway for the
last 20 or 30 years, manual dataabstraction.
And we can solve a really hugeproblem.
That's what we're after.
And we're doing this on thebacks of, let's get started
somewhere real.
How do we bring a whole bunch ofAI assistance to the process of
(29:46):
clinical data registries?
Yeah.
And that's where we're starting.
Nathan C (29:48):
Amazing.
Ah.
Brent Dover (29:51):
Oh, can I say one more thing?
Nathan C (29:52):
The with the prompt like that?
Yes.
So
Brent Dover (29:56):
hospitals in this country today are spending 10 to
$15 billion a year paying humanbeings to do chart abstraction.
For quality registry datacapture.
So they're already paying forthis kind of work.
They're paying a lot of moneyand the demands on hospitals are
(30:20):
only increasing to fill out moreforms.
To do more chart abstraction,more rebates, and those are
people who are being, need to beclinical.
And they're being taken off thefront lines of care and they're
doing an important role.
But shouldn't we be doingsomething more of it?
The taxes, I'm paying 10 to 15billion and all I'm doing is
(30:43):
filling out a form.
The strategic asset that we'retrying to turn it all into is,
Hey, let's do that.
And then we've got.
Previously unstructured data,it's now structured data.
It can be fed into your datawarehouse.
It can be fed into youranalytics infrastructure.
It can be fed into your processimprovement initiatives, and you
can have access to huge amountsof data that has always been
(31:06):
trapped and hidden away fromyou.
That's what I'm super passionateabout.
Nathan C (31:09):
Oh my gosh.
As somebody, it's not the sameworld, but as somebody who's
building forms and then fightingto structure and manage and
process that data in my own verynons saving lives kind of way.
Like I got excited about whatyou're doing for data and
automation, we're so close tothe end.
(31:29):
The name of the the theme of theHTLH conference this year is
Heroes and Legends, and youalready alluded to it, so I'm
curious is there, I have seenthat.
Almost every entrepreneur hasone, if not one dozen mentors,
advisors, coaches, leaders whohave stepped up and at one point
(31:53):
or another said, I think you cando this.
Keep going.
I'm curious, how has a mentorimpacted your journey or a hero
impacted your journey in health?
It.
Brent Dover (32:05):
I am gonna answer your question slightly
differently.
I love it and I'm gonna give theanswer of and it gets me a
little choked up.
But I just have an incredibleappreciation for doctors and
nurses, and I see the burdenthat they're under, the
administrative burden thatthey're under.
And I know how soul crushing itis for so many of them.
(32:26):
That's okay.
And throughout my career, I'vebeen in this spot where those
doctors and nurses have takendata that have come from our
systems that we've built, andthey've improved their
processes.
(32:46):
They've delivered better care.
They've had their burdenlightened just a little bit, and
those people inspire meendlessly, right?
To try and help figure out thisnext stage.
Can we build a great company andbe very profitable and do all
those things?
Sure.
But is it for some kind ofgreater good?
(33:08):
Absolutely.
That's what my motivation is.
And over the years, thosedoctors and nurses have told me
their stories.
About how data has impactedtheir ability to improve patient
care.
And it's just fuel.
It's just a never ending sourceof fuel for me.
Nathan C (33:26):
Oh my gosh, Brent I have.
So many more questions becausethis is exactly my favorite
conversation.
But you're so we have to leaveit there.
That's a fantastic ending.
Okay.
Thank you for joining me on theHLTH Tech Glow Up.
And we've got one more thing todo.
We're gonna clap it out.
Yeah, we are.
Okay, here we go.
1, 2, 3.
We're gonna clap.
(00:01):
So 1, 2, 3.
Hello and welcome to the HLTHTech Glow Up.
I'm Nathan C, and today I'mtalking with Jennifer Johnson of
Gen J Health and Fitness.
This is a second time Glow Upappearance, so I'm excited to
check in, on what you've been upto.
Welcome back to the glow up.
(00:22):
Jennifer.
Jennifer Johnson (00:22):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be back
Nathan C (00:25):
So let's just start with introductions.
for those who might be hearing.
About your work, for the firsttime now, can you introduce, who
you are and what you do at JennJHealth and Fitness?
Jennifer Johnson (00:35):
Absolutely.
So I'm Jennifer Johnson.
I'm the CEO and founder of JennJHealth and Fitness, which is a
consulting company that's builton the belief that everyone
deserves access to healthyequitable care.
We launched Fitness Can, it's afitness app for breast cancer
patients to support them withtheir fitness journey before,
during, and after treatment.
Nathan C (00:56):
Amazing.
Let's talk about you as aninnovator.
Before we get into some of thoseupdates and others, can you
remind us about, what startedyour.
Journey in healthcare
Jennifer Johnson (01:09):
Absolutely.
So I've always been inhealthcare as a career.
I probably spent about 15 yearsof my career, in healthcare
operations, strategy,innovation.
I spent, a great good time ondata and analytics and oncology
and love the work I do.
It's always been superimpactful.
my passion to drive equitablecare has been driven in
(01:30):
everything that I've done.
ironically though, I tell peoplethis is my God setup.
I spent 15 years in oncologydata analytics.
And then after I finished withthat career and went to tech
startups, I was diagnosed withbreast cancer and it was a huge
blow.
But on the other side of that,I'm healthy, happy, and whole.
during that time is where,fitness was born on a
(01:53):
spreadsheet, but it was bornusing my, background in
healthcare, data analytics.
Nathan C (01:58):
So many conversations that I have had at Health this
week.
Have been about how seeing thedata around healthcare inspired
founders to start theirbusiness, to start their path.
Jennifer Johnson (02:16):
Absolutely.
Nathan C (02:17):
Do you have a thought about what, working in data and
information, like what aboutthat, inspired your journey into
entrepreneurism?
Jennifer Johnson (02:27):
One, I love data and it's the weirdest thing
to say, but I see it like a, Ijust love it.
I love data.
More data the better.
I love it.
So I love data and as I wasgoing through treatment, It was
therapeutic for me in a way'cause I was building it on my
own because fitness data.
Putting in my own chemoradiation treatments and
updating and tracking myself,making charts and graphs and
(02:48):
that was therapeutic for me.
But I also went into thatknowing that, one, I was
privileged and knowing theinformation, I knew where to
find clinical trial data.
I knew where to get theassistance I needed for my own
treatment.
And that's a privilege.
Most people don't have that,right?
No, most people don't understandit.
They don't have it.
I knew that I had to.
Take this in this package in away where I can give it back to
(03:09):
the world because everyoneshould have access to all the
things.
Even being, I was diagnosed atthe age of 38 with triple
negative breast cancer.
And for someone who has spent somuch of my career analyzing data
in oncology, I was surprised tofind out that as a black woman I
was 40% more likely to die frombreast cancer.
(03:31):
just because I was a blackwoman.
Not a lot of data.
And so a lot of it had to dowith, the fact that we're
diagnosed later.
I diagnosed, I found my ownlump.
I advocated for myself to get amammogram even though I wasn't
recommended.
So I was 40, but if I would'vewaited till I was 40, I might
not be here talking today.
The data, just like Dr.
Drove me to, Hey, there's abunch of different issues I see
(03:52):
here that need to be tackled andwe, I can't tackle them all,
obviously, but what can I do?
So what I can do is I can buildsomething to help other patients
like myself, track their data.
Be empowered to know this is,your body and your treatment and
this is your journey.
So make it work for you and havethe data in the inside.
(04:13):
To drive those decisions.
Nathan C (04:17):
I, I'm just gonna give that a little bit of space that
I so appreciate that.
And there's this like reallyinteresting comparison that I'm
balancing in my brain where somany of I've talked to so many,
like really consumer, patient.
Focused product leaders.
And often what they talk aboutis like we have to meet our
(04:39):
patients where they're at.
We need to talk with them intheir own words.
We need to meet them in thechannels that they're at.
And this journey that you'redescribing is their wildest
dream because you are startingthe innovation where you are at.
Like it's in your, you'retranslating all of that
(04:59):
healthcare information that youknow where to find it.
And you're bringing it in toyour own spreadsheet.
Yes.
To your own organization, yourown notes.
And that idea that like patientcentered care doesn't have to
like eventually make it there,but like the innovation.
Can actually start, right?
(05:20):
Like with the patient, with aspecific diagnosis, with a
specific, like I just, there'san elegance to being at the
beginning of the problem.
The patient is at the beginningof the problem rather than you
have a tech, so often in SiliconValley there's a tech solution
and then you go searchingExactly.
For the client.
Yes.
And I just love how, this thing,that these giant leaders that
(05:44):
you see on stage.
Are like advocating for andsharing is their message is like
your lived experience?
Yes.
so you teased at the top of theshow, I believe the last time
you were on the glow.
You were just starting thejourney with the Fitness Can
app.
Yes.
And taking that data, thoseframeworks, those connections
(06:07):
and resources that you've beenbuilt.
And you're starting to developthat into the Fitness Can app?
Jennifer Johnson (06:12):
Yes.
Nathan C (06:13):
People love.
To know how people's glow upshave gone.
Can you report back about whatyou've been up to?
how did your glow up go?
Jennifer Johnson (06:22):
Absolutely.
One other thing I spoke about,during that episode was one of
the hurdles I had and it wasaround funding.
Because I was, at the, like abootstrap founder and by
Bootstrap like my husband'spaying for everything.
So I was like, okay, I need toreally figure out how to fund
this.
That was like my biggest hurdle.
So I struggled with it.
'cause I really felt this iswhat God wanted me to do.
(06:44):
This is what I feel like I haveto do, but I don't have the
resources to do it.
I did what I could do with theknowledge that I have, the
network that I have as far asbuilding it out, designing,
getting the frameworks andthings like that.
following, health last year.
I was able to connect with UCSFand they gave me a grant to not
(07:07):
only launch this app, but launchit in a way where I could
provide it for free to patients.
Isn't that amazing?
Nathan C (07:15):
That's so amazing.
Jennifer Johnson (07:16):
Absolutely amazing.
Nathan C (07:17):
If I remember correctly, that was like one of
the big goals.
Yes, absolutely.
And part of what was driving,the way you were building the
model for fitness wasspecifically so that people in
need could have access And feelgood about who they were sharing
their data with.
Jennifer Johnson (07:32):
Absolutely.
And I was like, so maybe someoneover there heard.
I don't know.
But, the, it definitely likeuniversal line with me that,
with that.
And, so they were veryinstrumental in helping me to
get it launched.
It is now available in the Applestore.
Love it.
Love it.
Later this year, we got, anothergreat thing coming out as well.
(07:53):
So really excited for this workand, the fact that not only is
it available, that it'savailable to everyone.
And so in addition to, it beinga great solution for breast
cancer patients.
It's also a great solution forwomen on HRT hormone replacement
therapy.
'cause those are very similar tosome of the meds you get before
during, or even after breastcancer treatment.
(08:14):
For women on HRT, using themodel to track your fitness and
your HRT will be very helpful.
So pretty much anyone can usethe app, but, it's very
supportive for those.
In those spaces.
I encourage people to downloadit, use it, and I would love to
hear more feedback from patientsabout it.
Nathan C (08:32):
data nerd to now be collecting your own customer
data has gotta feel pretty good.
Jennifer Johnson (08:37):
It feels so good.
Nathan C (08:39):
You mentioned that fitness can, is.
Is targeted right now for breastcancer.
Are other, are women with othercancers, is the tool also
supportive and helpful for
Jennifer Johnson (08:49):
Right now it is supportive for any.
One.
Who has a heart, that beats andis also track to Apple Health,
basically.
But, and I say that because theway it is designed, and this was
linked to UCSF, the way it isdesigned is, it integrates with
your Apple Health, but.
(09:10):
you can type in the medicationor whatever you're taking
yourself.
For instance, by the grace ofGod, I'm not taking any meds,
but I do take vitamin D and Ihave that in there and I have a
reminder to remind me so I canmanually put that in there.
Got it.
so I encourage folks.
Anyone who wants to track.
Nathan C (09:29):
you're tracking your fitness, your medications
Appointments,
Jennifer Johnson (09:32):
your fitness
Nathan C (09:33):
scan is a great place.
Jennifer Johnson (09:34):
a great place for you.
Nathan C (09:35):
thank you.
Jennifer Johnson (09:35):
Yeah.
Nathan C (09:36):
I love it.
Amazing.
Thank you for that.
And congratulations.
Thank you.
It's it's amazing what a yearcan make.
When an entrepreneur puts thetime in.
and man, have you been hustling?
I love to see it.
Let's take it back to theindustry level a little bit.
I've been asking everybody what,what blow up, what major
improvement they want to see inthe healthcare, health
(10:00):
technology space.
In the next six months to ayear.
what's the challenge you havefor this industry?
Jennifer Johnson (10:07):
I have said this, and I will continue to say
access.
Access, access, access.
Every level.
Access.
Every level.
Access.
whether it's, in a ruralcommunity, having access to care
when you need it, from a payerperspective, having access to
(10:27):
care regardless of your incomelevel, whether it's education,
having access to the care youneed, information on diagnosis,
or.
even preventative measures.
access is the key to a healthyfuture.
Nathan C (10:44):
I think that might be the stinger at the top access.
Access.
Access.
Amazing.
Okay.
Bring it back down to JennJHealth and Fitness.
And fitness can, what's the glowup you're working on for your
own business in the next sixmonths?
Jennifer Johnson (11:01):
So the next.
Six months.
The focus is that targetpopulation on the app, the,
breast cancer patient or HRTuser that also wants track
fitness.
So getting more engagement onthe app, inviting other folks to
join in and, really buildingthat community up.
Is like one of the key goals forthe next season.
That's my main focus, but I'malso super excited in
(11:25):
partnership with Johnson andJohnson I will be, working on a
project called Under 40.
a Couple episodes of womentalking about diagnosis under
the age of 40.
like I mentioned myself, I wasalso diagnosed, but just the
different nuances of that.
And there's so many, how did youeven get to that point?
Preventative.
Where you at now?
(11:45):
So there's so many discussions.
It is a lot.
Nathan C (11:47):
Are you a guest or a host on that show?
A host Jennifer Johnson.
Jennifer Johnson (11:53):
know about that part,
Nathan C (11:54):
there'll healthcare influencer.
Jennifer Johnson (11:56):
We'll see.
there's gonna be six episodes.
Johnson is a, huge partner,healthy Voices.
they're really supportive, soI'm excited to have the
conversations and just speak towomen of color, that have been
through this journey there'swomen and lucky for me, I
already have kids I didn't wantanymore, but some women are just
(12:16):
going into that journey.
And having to also be diagnosedor having young kids at home and
or being pushed throughmenopause, and you weren't ready
for that and you didn't evenknow what it meant.
So there's so many differentconversations around it.
dating or marriage and sex andall the different things and
breast cancer at the same time.
Is a lot.
(12:36):
And having that space to talk tothese women and just, we're just
talking.
We're not, yeah, we're notsolving anything.
we're just healing each otherthrough talking about it and
joining in the conversation
Nathan C (12:47):
so often, right?
Like one of the biggest valuesthat like a network or a mentor
can provide is access.
To interesting people andconversations that can move a
founder forward, and I love thatthis partnership is giving you
access to all of those voices.
Jennifer Johnson (13:07):
I love that.
Nathan C (13:07):
Yeah,
Jennifer Johnson (13:08):
Thank you so much and you have also been a
huge influence for me.
Honestly, I just absolutelylove.
what you do.
I love seeing posts and all thedifferent founders on there and
they're glow up it's such agreat thing.
before my experience, workingwith you, which has been great.
I never thought about yeah, Ican host a conversation, you
(13:28):
make it look so easy.
I know it's not, but you make itlook easy.
I know it's not, but I'm reallyexcited to be at a.
Have a, it won't be, as robustas yours.
A couple conversations.
But I'm excited about it.
Nathan C (13:38):
on these conversations, we use this topic
of mentors and heroes as a wayto dive into.
How important in a founder in anentrepreneur's journey just
having one person say, Hey, Ibelieve you keep going.
That can be one of the mostvaluable moments.
Absolutely.
And I totally you got this.
(13:59):
Aw, thank you.
So keep going.
Alright, so we got through theglow ups, actually, mentors and
heroes is the next question.
Right?
Jennifer Johnson (14:07):
Awesome.
Nathan C (14:07):
theme of the HLTH event is Heroes and Legends.
I'm using that to ask peopleabout how mentors heroes, and
legends in the space have,impacted your journey.
Jennifer Johnson (14:18):
Has been a huge impact of my journey, and I
would say throughout my entirecareer, having mentors,
champions, heroes, like yousaid, legends who've done it
before have really beeninspirational, you can't be what
you can't see.
So it's oh, I could see thisperson doing it.
So it is been really great forme.
and there's so many, even hereat this conference, almost
(14:40):
everyone you speak to, it's likethey're doing heroic things.
They've done heroic things, andit's wow.
And there's so many great,everyone has a story.
And just hearing theperseverance and this, the zero
to 100.
And like you said, sometimesit's just that one person that
says, yeah, I believe you can doit.
You should go ahead and do it.
Especially, as a founder, as ahuman, sometimes you like, I
(15:03):
don't know.
What, am I doing this right?
should I be doing this?
gimme direction, gimme God, Ineed something.
and for me, it's always come atthe right time, right?
When I'm like, I don't know,I'll get you know what?
Yes, you should be doing extra.
I'm like, thank you for theconfirmation.
Nathan C (15:16):
Good timing also goes hand in hand with like very good
intuition.
Yes.
Yes it does.
I think you're building goodthings for yourself.
you are so right though, and Ihave to just like tag, right?
Being at the health conferencethere is such, an amazing focus
and.
Support for people who have beenin the medical industry,
(15:40):
patients, yes.
informaticists, who are tryingto make a contribution.
Yes.
Like the number of times thatI've been in a room with
Jennifer, who's introducedherself and said, oh, I'm in I'm
a founder, I've got a backgroundin oncology.
People will stop talking to mebecause they're like, oh, we're
having like a healthcareconversation over here.
(16:00):
People find their people.
It's just amazing to watch.
Yeah.
Okay.
one last question actually.
And it's totally optional.
Do you have a spicy healthcarehot take?
Jennifer Johnson (16:13):
A spicy healthcare hot take?
I would say For sure.
Nathan C (16:25):
Sure.
Jennifer Johnson (16:27):
Women's health is on the rise, and I'm so
thankful for it.
Talk about heroes.
I've heard on so many stages, inso many rooms of all the talk on
just support on every stage of awoman's life.
I'm talking about fromadolescence all the way through
menopause, like having thatdirect care, the clinical
(16:50):
trials, the studies, theinnovation.
The solutions that havetypically been an afterthought.
It's been so energizing for mejust to see it and it's the
future is now, like it'shappening.
There's discussions, there's,there are many pitches and I'm
not sure if you made the women'shealth startup pitch, but every
company I was like yes, we needyou.
(17:13):
It was amazing.
I'm excited to see what's nextin this industry.
Nathan C (17:17):
Women's health is on the rise
Jennifer Johnson (17:19):
Amazing.
Nathan C (17:20):
Jennifer Johnson, gen J Health and Fitness.
Founder of the Fitness Can App.
It's two time Glow Upparticipant, thank you so much
for joining me again.
Jennifer Johnson (17:32):
Thank you for having me can't wait for the
next one.
Nathan C (17:35):
wait to check in.
We've got one last thing.
Yes.
We're gonna clap it out.
Jennifer Johnson (17:39):
Okay.
Nathan C (17:39):
You ready?
1, 1, 2, 3.
Amazing.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Jennifer Johnson (17:44):
Thank you.
Nathan C (17:46):
Okay.
So 1, 2, 3.
Awesome.
Hi, and welcome to the HLTH TechGlow Up.
I'm Nathan C and today I'mtalking with Brent Dover of
Carta Healthcare.
Brent, thank you so much forjoining me today,
Brent Dover (18:02):
Nathan.
I'm so excited to talk.
Thank you, Nathan.
I'm pleased to be here.
Nathan C (18:04):
Amazing.
First things first coming to agiant health technology event
means that the first days arefilled with introductions.
So can you start us off andintroduce yourself and the work
that you do at CartaHealthcarecare sure.
Like you said, I'm Brent Dover.
I've been in the industry forabout 35 years.
(18:25):
And I started off working in areally big company in laboratory
Information Systems, which in 1993, 4 5 was the first part of
healthcare clinical technologyto really get automated Oh, yep.
In the laboratory of all things.
Yeah.
And you have a lot of control.
(18:45):
Yeah.
You got a lot going on there.
And our industry is just.
Dramatically expanded eversince, obviously.
Anyway, so I've been in theindustry a really long time and
my sweet spot is I love findinga founder who's got a really
good idea and their idea isstarting to take shape, but they
need some help really growingthat company.
(19:06):
Carta is the fourth such companythat I've been a part of.
Okay.
Brent Dover (19:11):
Yeah.
Nathan C (19:12):
That like finding a good idea and shepherding those
into successful companiescouldn't be how you started as
an entrepreneur.
That's like a gift that.
Somebody who's done it a fewtimes Can you talk about the
inspiration that got you excitedto, to start technologies and
companies?
Yeah, you bet.
Brent Dover (19:32):
I guess it's always just wanting to solve whatever
the next problem is, and once acompany gets big enough to a
certain stage.
For me, my skillset is not quiteas strong though, if we're being
honest about it.
I went to a conference one timeand I was told by a semi-famous
investor, Hey, there's zero tofive people, there's five to 50
(19:56):
people, and there's 50 to 500people.
And in the growth of a companythat could be millions of
dollars of revenue, it could benumber of customers, it could be
number of employees.
It's just magnitude.
Yeah.
And do you mind if I talk alittle bit more about that?
No, I'm, I have follows up.
That's the only reason.
Yeah.
So what's a zero to five?
Zero to five Is the idea person,somebody who's willing to like,
bet it all to mortgage theirhome to take incredible chances
(20:19):
on this idea that they're superpassionate about?
That's not me.
Five to 50 guy is I took thatbig chance.
Somebody took that big chance,they got a company and now we
need to figure out how do wescale?
How do we like?
The innovator is oftentimes notthe grower, the procedure
(20:40):
builder.
The infrastructure enabler.
For whatever reason, and Ilearned this about myself,
that's who I am, but I'm alsonot the 50 to 500 guy who's the
50 to 500 guy.
That's the person who's likefiguring out, Hey, I need a
three year strategic plan.
(21:01):
I'd rather figure out what arewe gonna do in the next three
months?
How are we really gonna makestuff happen?
So just over time, I justfigured out that's who I am.
Nathan C (21:09):
I love that.
I'm curious, most CEOs aren't.
Typically known to be the kindof persona who hears a piece of
advice.
And the way this was framed toyou I think was very generous,
right?
Hey, there's three, which areyou?
But when that idea of are you atthe right level for where your
(21:31):
passions, skills and experienceare was brought up So I'm
jumping ahead and apologies for,because you were, you're on such
a great role, but how youorganize to even share that same
understanding of the customer.
When you're beyond a coupledozen people, I like, I often
talk about 30 to 130 as like theSilicon Valley, like major pain
(21:56):
point.
'cause you're growing so fastyou don't realize you've left
your team behind and that'soften where.
A founder might figure out thatthey're not at the right stage
anymore.
So how in that like very fasttumultuous builds do row, do you
also make time to center thecustomer and to build that
(22:18):
culture where people can thinklike brands?
Brent Dover (22:22):
Okay.
It came out of frustration overthe years.
Yeah.
It's like I just found.
Marketing people would onlythink like marketing salespeople
would only think like selling.
Implementers would only thinklike implementers.
And I remember talking to one ofour teams at a time like, Hey,
what part of the helicopter doyou not want to work?
(22:42):
Like it all has to work togetherin order for the helicopter to
fly.
And so when you're in a companywith 40 employees or 80
employees, you have to motivateeverybody to care.
Yes, about what they're hired todo, but then you have to teach
them, it doesn't matter ifeverybody else isn't succeeding
(23:02):
at their job.
And mostly the reason whyeverybody else can't succeed at
their job is because we breakdown communication.
And mostly why that happens iscompanies create personal.
Or departmental incentive plansas opposed to companywide
incentive plans.
(23:22):
We can go on a long run aboutthis, but this is very
counterculture,
Nathan C (23:26):
so this is like sales gets incentivized for doing a
selling task, selling andforgetting market.
Brent Dover (23:33):
Oh, hold on.
Let's talk about sales.
I sold it.
I booked it.
I sold it.
But you know what?
I didn't really tell them allthe truth, and I set my
implementation team up for.
Failure.
That is a fireable offense.
You did not do a great job.
If the sale is not done in a waythat our customers are actually
(23:53):
gonna be successful.
Nathan C (23:55):
You gotta be thinking like Brent and get that convert.
Brent Dover (23:59):
More importantly, why don't we build, yeah.
You gotta be thinking like theexecutive team, like we need a
10, 20 year relationship.
With this hospital customer, andit starts on day one, and then
it works on implementation andit goes through customer success
and support, and the nextproduct rollouts.
It all has to come together.
And how do you do that?
(24:21):
You incentivize everybody on thegrowth of the company together.
Like it literally has to be.
We're an in it togethermentality and compensation
structure, which is very, I'vejust learned over the years lot.
Not a lot of people really agreewith me on this topic, but
(24:43):
that's how it goes.
But have all of those peoplelaunched as many companies I
would say.
My model breaks down a littlebit once you get to be a really
big company.
Fair.
Like it has to change.
Yeah.
But how do you get from leader,founder led company to scaling
(25:05):
company?
You have to have everybody inthe boat rolling together,
communicating, and you can'thave internal.
Cross culture, that's what killsmid- stage companies
Nathan C (25:15):
all the time.
We talk about silos like withinthe industry of pharma's not
talking to providers isn'ttalking, but Right.
Like it happens within a productorg or within a go-to market
team.
Absolutely does.
Goodness, Brent, we could talkforever.
This is like one of my favoritetopics.
Okay.
And like your perspective, Iwould say is fairly notable.
(25:37):
Like it's not common, correct,that somebody has both has that
perspective and the experienceof doing it a few times.
So I so appreciate.
If I have to get back to script,the name of the show is The
Health Tech Glow Up And a glowup is a notable revitalization,
a rebirth, a transformation.
(25:59):
So starting at like the industrylevel, what's a transformation
or a glow up that you arelooking for from the health tech
and health It.
space.
Brent Dover (26:10):
I can tell you what's super motivating for me
at the moment.
Yeah.
And why I'm in this company.
Is that okay?
Yep.
Perfect.
My entire career has been indata related companies,
healthcare, data relatedcompanies.
It's
Nathan C (26:22):
a good time for that.
Brent Dover (26:23):
It's been an amazing run.
Nathan C (26:24):
Yeah.
That's to your earlier point,right?
About are we actually solvingthe problems that matter?
And if you spent the firstseveral portions of your career
solving the easy part, nowthere's that 65% that you can go
after.
Yeah.
Which is really where yourcustomers are already
(26:46):
struggling.
They really are so much.
What a fantastic victory lap tobe in.
If we can get there, we gottaget there.
So you've totally led into thequestion which is next, which is
taking that idea of a glow up,how are you looking to have some
sort of audaciously fantastictransformation or success in the
next six months?
Brent Dover (27:08):
Great question.
So we thought, four years ago,hey, we should build some AI
technology that reads throughall this unstructured data and
turns into the structured data.
This is four years ago.
1200 days.
There's no way to do thatwithout a person babysitting the
(27:32):
technology.
I don't care how good thetechnology is.
Babysitting's really not theright word, but let's call it
co-piloting the technologymaking sure.
So we went out, we built allthese technologies to go read
through unstructured notes andturn it into structured data at
scale.
You couldn't really get it over40, 50, 60% accurate.
Not good enough in healthcare,not even close.
(27:56):
So this got us to say how can wesolve a real problem in
healthcare while we're.
Delivering a great ROI for ourcustomers, and we're being paid
to have a human in the loopvalidating our AI, and this is
what got us into the registryworld.
(28:19):
Okay.
Hospitals, are you familiar withregistries?
Hospitals have a huge, I call ita tax on their system.
It's a great tax.
I'm glad they're paying the tax,but the taxes, you gotta fill
out all these quality registriesfor the greater good.
That have had a huge impact onthe quality of care in our
country.
But what happens?
Nathan C (28:37):
Some standardized data, if you will,
Brent Dover (28:39):
some standardized data.
Yeah.
What happens?
It's a human being todaymanually logged in on the left
side of their screen.
Filling out a form and on theright side of their screen,
they're in Epic, they're inCerner, they're digging through
a patient's medical record,abstracting the unstructured
data into the form on the leftside.
(29:01):
So if we could build an AI toolthat is assisting those people
doing that job, and if.
Those people can then tell uswhen our technology is prompting
the right answer or the wronganswer.
We can have oversight.
We can get incredible levels ofaccuracy, and we can build a
(29:23):
systemic solution that has beenchecked.
By people who have been doingthis type of work anyway for the
last 20 or 30 years, manual dataabstraction.
And we can solve a really hugeproblem.
That's what we're after.
And we're doing this on thebacks of, let's get started
somewhere real.
How do we bring a whole bunch ofAI assistance to the process of
(29:46):
clinical data registries?
Yeah.
And that's where we're starting.
Nathan C (29:48):
Amazing.
Ah.
Brent Dover (29:51):
Oh, can I say one more thing?
Nathan C (29:52):
The with the prompt like that?
Yes.
So
Brent Dover (29:56):
hospitals in this country today are spending 10 to
$15 billion a year paying humanbeings to do chart abstraction.
For quality registry datacapture.
So they're already paying forthis kind of work.
They're paying a lot of moneyand the demands on hospitals are
(30:20):
only increasing to fill out moreforms.
To do more chart abstraction,more rebates, and those are
people who are being, need to beclinical.
And they're being taken off thefront lines of care and they're
doing an important role.
But shouldn't we be doingsomething more of it?
The taxes, I'm paying 10 to 15billion and all I'm doing is
(30:43):
filling out a form.
The strategic asset that we'retrying to turn it all into is,
Hey, let's do that.
And then we've got.
Previously unstructured data,it's now structured data.
It can be fed into your datawarehouse.
It can be fed into youranalytics infrastructure.
It can be fed into your processimprovement initiatives, and you
can have access to huge amountsof data that has always been
(31:06):
trapped and hidden away fromyou.
That's what I'm super passionateabout.
Nathan C (31:09):
Oh my gosh.
As somebody, it's not the sameworld, but as somebody who's
building forms and then fightingto structure and manage and
process that data in my own verynons saving lives kind of way.
Like I got excited about whatyou're doing for data and
automation, we're so close tothe end.
(31:29):
The name of the the theme of theHTLH conference this year is
Heroes and Legends, and youalready alluded to it, so I'm
curious is there, I have seenthat.
Almost every entrepreneur hasone, if not one dozen mentors,
advisors, coaches, leaders whohave stepped up and at one point
(31:53):
or another said, I think you cando this.
Keep going.
I'm curious, how has a mentorimpacted your journey or a hero
impacted your journey in health?
It.
Brent Dover (32:05):
I am gonna answer your question slightly
differently.
I love it and I'm gonna give theanswer of and it gets me a
little choked up.
But I just have an incredibleappreciation for doctors and
nurses, and I see the burdenthat they're under, the
administrative burden thatthey're under.
And I know how soul crushing itis for so many of them.
(32:26):
That's okay.
And throughout my career, I'vebeen in this spot where those
doctors and nurses have takendata that have come from our
systems that we've built, andthey've improved their
processes.
(32:46):
They've delivered better care.
They've had their burdenlightened just a little bit, and
those people inspire meendlessly, right?
To try and help figure out thisnext stage.
Can we build a great company andbe very profitable and do all
those things?
Sure.
But is it for some kind ofgreater good?
(33:08):
Absolutely.
That's what my motivation is.
And over the years, thosedoctors and nurses have told me
their stories.
About how data has impactedtheir ability to improve patient
care.
And it's just fuel.
It's just a never ending sourceof fuel for me.
Nathan C (33:26):
Oh my gosh, Brent I have.
So many more questions becausethis is exactly my favorite
conversation.
But you're so we have to leaveit there.
That's a fantastic ending.
Okay.
Thank you for joining me on theHLTH Tech Glow Up.
And we've got one more thing todo.
We're gonna clap it out.
Yeah, we are.
Okay, here we go.
1, 2, 3.
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