August 22, 2025 • 33 mins
Dr. Diane Bowser is Senior Manager of Emerging Technologies at Lenovo and founder of CodeReal, bringing a rare blend of R&D leadership, arts background, and startup hustle to the world of XR (extended reality) and wearables.
Key Takeaways:
- Bridging Startup and Enterprise: Diane operates at the intersection of nimble startup energy (CodeReal) and scale-driven corporate innovation (Lenovo). She encourages founders to blend creative, non-technical perspectives with technical knowhow.
- Making Innovation Human: Her goal is building technologies (especially wearables and XR) that respect users' privacy, data, and trust—extending Lenovo’s reputation for security into new product lines.
- From Arts to Tech: Diane credits her arts background for resilience, negotiation skills, and a user-centric approach—highlighting how creative, non-traditional founders can thrive in tech if paired with the right collaborators.
- Focus & Letting Go: She shares the importance of time-blocking, realistic metrics, and having the humility to let go of bad ideas (or mismatched team members) to focus on what works, both for individual startups and within global R&D.
Diane’s journey spans classical music, philosophy, teaching, and company-building, united by a drive to break barriers and make technology human-centric. Her story is one of continual reinvention, boundary-crossing, and championing both technological progress and the people behind it.
About Dr. Diane Bowser, PhD
Dr. Diane Bowser, PhD is a Senior Manager guiding Lenovo’s Emerging Software UX Team. The Emerging Software UX Team designs experiences for new technologies, AI, and XR hardware products from inception to two years as they enter Lenovo’s commercial product portfolio.
For 2025-26, her work centers on building next-generation AI and Spatial XR technologies. The Emerging Software UX team looks forward to new lighter spatial form factors in XR and agentic AI in spatial computing with integration into the commercial Think Series hardware.
Before joining Lenovo, Diane was, and is, a co-founder of CodeReal, LLC, a company that develops augmented reality (AR), mixed-reality (MR), and virtual reality (VR) applications for companies, institutions, and manufacturers that require targeted spatial components.
As an academic (Ph.D. in Philosophy, AOC - Technology), Diane spent 20 years teaching in various public and private institutions at the university level. Most notably Clarion University and the University of Pittsburgh where a technology prototyping class inspired her to work exclusively with start-ups over the last decade to seed business growth in 3D design, augmented reality, mixed reality, and virtual reality enterprise-level ventures.
A "glow up" signifies a positive transformation, reflecting the journey of becoming a better, more successful version of oneself.
At The Tech Glow Up, we humanize the startup and innovation landscape by focusing on the essential aspects of the entrepreneurial journey. Groundbreaking ideas are often ahead of their time, making resilience and perseverance vital for founders and product leaders.
In our podcast, we engage with innovators to discuss their transformative ideas, the challenges they face, and how they create value for future success.
If you're a founder or product leader seeking your own glow up, or a seasoned entrepreneur with stories to share, we invite you to join our guest list via this link.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nathan C Bowser (00:00):
Hello and welcome to The Glow Up! I'm
Nathan C and I am pleased tobring you a very special
separated at birth episode ofThe Glow Up.
Today I'm talking with Dr.
Diane Bowser, Senior Manager ofEmerging Technologies at Lenovo,
and Founder of CodeReal.
(00:20):
Hey, we're Bowsers in XR.
We gotta talk!
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:22):
I'm thinking like, Tale of Two Cities, like
"Two Bowsers, Two Views on XR."
Nathan C Bowser (00:27):
"A Tale of Two Bowsers." It was the best of XR.
It was the worst of XR.
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:33):
You can be the best!
Nathan C Bowser (00:34):
One of the questions I actually was really
curious about right, is if wehave two Bowsers on the podcast,
like...
who actually stole the princess?
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:46):
Well, I want the car.
Okay, I'm just gonna be upfront.
I want the car!
Nathan C Bowser (00:50):
Yeah.
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:51):
So I guess I'm the driver!
Nathan C Bowser (00:53):
Dr.
Diane, it is so good to see youtoday! Thanks for joining me on
The Glow Up.
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:57):
Likewise, I'm thrilled to join you and I
excited to talk about XRtechnologies today!
Nathan C Bowser (01:04):
Could you introduce yourself and talk to
us a little bit about the workthat you do with emerging
technologies like XR?
Dr. Diane Bowser (01:13):
I work at Lenovo in emerging technologies,
which is exciting because it'san R&D department at Lenovo.
And of course, spatial isnothing new in the world at
large, but for big enterprisecompanies and integration of
spatial technologies with AI andall the other new technologies
emerging technologies teams havegrown up.
And this is a dream gig for me.
(01:35):
This is a company, Lenovo, wherethey sell hundreds of millions
of laptops, right?
So the potential to make a bigimpact is huge.
And that's why I am working withLenovo right now!
Nathan C Bowser (01:46):
I love that focus.
One of the things that is alwaysvery top of mind in emerging
technologies is likedistribution and supply chain.
Whether you're an app that'slimited to certain kinds of
phones, like a wearable forinstance, that's trying to make
a global impact thatdistribution and supply chain
seems really important and likesomething that's baked in to a
(02:10):
company as big and far reachingas Lenovo.
Nice call there!
Dr. Diane Bowser (02:14):
Lenovo's a great OEM, right?
And so the impact, theopportunity to make wearables,
right?
Is a little bit different thanthe opportunity to design for
preexisting wearables.
And so CodeReal's aboutencouraging innovation in
startup and Lenovo's aboutcapitalizing on that to the
biggest market possible.
So that's why I like the twosides, right?
(02:36):
The startup energy on one sideand the corporate energy on the
other.
Nathan C Bowser (02:40):
Okay! I have to know, these are both like hard
problems, both different sizes,different players but both
playing in some very interestingspaces at the edge of what is
possible.
Can you talk about how you gothere and where this all started
for you?
Dr. Diane Bowser (02:59):
Sure! So this started many moons ago, more
than I'm willing to admit.
My start was as a classicalmusician and the instruments you
see behind me, I started codingto make sound libraries for
those and plug them into MIDIand make computers talk to each
other digitally.
So we were at the advent of theswitch from analog to digital
(03:20):
recording studios.
We're filming this in myrecording studio.
And I was always interested indoing the next thing, maybe
sometimes so interested that Iwas so far out ahead, no one
else was interested.
And they were like,"What futurething are you doing?" And so
that's the connective glue thatholds my whole career together.
I started by building recordingstudios and new technologies for
(03:41):
those.
I went back to school and got aPhD in philosophy, right?
I left my musical classicaltraining on the floor.
I left everything on the floorand I started teaching logic and
philosophy, and then the itch tobuild things came again.
You can never not be aninnovator once you start
soldering and hacking and so onand so forth.
(04:02):
So my specialty in philosophywas technology.
In the academy, those thingsdon't go together, right?
You can't cross teachingcomputer science and philosophy.
So the academy was unkind tothose interests in many ways,
right?
They wanted very traditionalpeople in very separate places.
And I was one person who wantedto traverse all these spaces and
just tear down the barriers.
(04:23):
And that was rogue.
That was really rogue.
So I decided I had to leaveacademia after 20 years of
teaching and build startups, andthat's where CodeReal came into
the picture.
I gave myself a little projectto build 10 companies in 15
years.
Spend a year or a year and ahalf with each of those
companies.
So that was the problem, right?
We need more startups, we needmore energy, we need more people
(04:47):
innovating and my goal was toget these companies off the
ground and work with founders.
And what you learn when you workwith founders is founders are a
bit pathological.
And I love you, founders! I'mone of you! I'm one of you.
But we get committed to a visionin the founder community.
It's huge.
And people don't wanna let go ofthat vision even when it's not
maybe panning out in the UXsense.
(05:08):
And I'm all about UX and theusers.
And the use cases might not fitthe technology.
And so I would give thesecompanies a year or a year and a
half to wake up and get it andstand up.
And then if I liked thatfounder, I would wanna own a
little piece of that company andgo to the next one.
And when we got to companynumber six, I owned it.
CodeReal.
And I started it with adeveloper partner of mine and
(05:31):
the company is predicated on oneidea.
We're gonna take other academicslike myself who have great ideas
in their lab.
They're looking for grants andpeople to develop the software
into a more mature state, right?
Here I am, I've left academia.
I can write grants with them,and then I can help them spin
out and stand up their companyand continue my 10 and 15
(05:51):
project through CodeReal, right?
So that, that's one very focusedgoal.
My my goal in academia wasalways to get a lab where I
could play with emergingtechnologies.
It's super simple.
It's just super simple! There,there's no complex path there at
all.
And along came Lenovo during thepandemic when it was almost
impossible to be a startupcompany and get people to put XR
(06:12):
headsets on their head.
That was like a quest to say theleast, all puns intended.
And so there I was trying to getpeople to put headsets on their
head.
And heads in Lenovo came alongand said,"We wanna build these
wearables and we'd like to havesomebody along who can help lead
the software development." Andso to me, there was some synergy
and synchronicity, and Lenovowas very kind about this whole
(06:33):
startup notion, like they wantan ecosystem too.
So they didn't mind that I wasworking in that ecosystem, and I
found a way to make these twothings work together.
Nathan C Bowser (06:42):
I'm a little bit floored at how you seem to,
as the founder have a verystrong instinctual understanding
of like your strengths andvision and passion and can
balance this very nicely againstsuccess metrics, right?
(07:03):
Like actual business impact sothat you're constantly building
on learning, but also learninghow to grow and build successful
business.
So wow! That you were able to dothat once, but that you also
saw, a bigger opportunity.
So you made that space twice! Orsix or seven times.
(07:25):
I'm just floored! I love it!When you're working on so many
ideas and engaging in these sortof future spaces, it's gotta be
hard not to just wanna dive into certain big trends, certain
juicy problems, but you've got alot of responsibilities as this,
(07:46):
like multi-threaded founderinnovator.
How do you stay focused onkeeping each project, each
activity at the level that itneeds to be while also
continuing to probe and grow andpush the edges?
Dr. Diane Bowser (08:02):
I'm gonna talk about time blocking, right?
So the skill is time blockingand really sticking to your time
blocks, even when that's notfeasible.
Like you think, I need more thanan hour to do X, right?
But I only have an hour, sowhat's the one thing I can do to
push X forward today?
And so on that level, it waslike progress for each of these
projects is like the thicknessof a sheet of paper, right?
(08:24):
But if you stack a lot of paper,it gets heavy and it has weight.
The other thing was knowing whento let go of bad ideas.
And bad founders! So forCodeReal I'm working with
founders successively, right?
I'm pouring all that energy intothat founder for a year or for
18 months, and I'm trying to getto know their soul and the soul
of the business they're tryingto build.
(08:44):
And I say that in a veryspiritual way because if
everything's not aligned, and ifthey're not trying to create the
right experience, we're gonnaget on the struggle bus together
and maybe battle each other! Meand the founder, right?
And not just me, like all theother people who are on the bus
with us.
And it takes a lot of humilityto think you can start one
company.
(09:04):
And here I am, like I'm gonnastart 10 in 15 years.
So knowing when to let go of badideas and bad founders to stay
focused, knowing when to let goof struggles and circuses that
are not yours.
You know not my monkeys, not mycircus, not my dream.
And go to the next betterfocused thing.
And then focusing on what doesdone look like?
(09:27):
What does our goal look like?
Like when can we say, we made itor we're done, or we've stood
this company up and it's readyto fly on its own.
Having really easy metrics.
Easy metrics! Like, are wemaking money?
Do people take salaries, right?
Do we have investors or foundersor runway where we can develop
(09:47):
an MVP and really be successful?
Let's be realistic! I thinkthat's my number one thing.
And then having the courage tosay, and the humility to say
this isn't, I can't accomplishthis with you.
I need to move to the nextproject because you would be
better served by people who areX than maybe Diane Bowser.
(10:08):
Right?
And so the humility to bow outwhen you know you can't make it
happen for that person.
It's not always them.
Sometimes it's the product.
Sometimes it's the dream,sometimes it's the market.
Nathan C Bowser (10:19):
Yeah! Being able to cut your losses or
understand when something isn'tproductive feels really
challenging when you're in thisfounder's mindset where,
especially in emerging tech,where like you might be so new
and you're being told to betenacious, to believe in your
(10:42):
idea.
I'm curious and is there asecret to letting go of ideas
that you've held reallypassionately whose time just
isn't ready?
And like, how do you socializeand get large global
organizations to make thosekinds of hard choices or to
(11:02):
approach those kinds of hardchoices?
Dr. Diane Bowser (11:05):
In large global organizations, they have
mechanisms for sorting theirideas and prioritizing their
research and development, right?
So they have quantitativemetrics, right?
If we do a POC and it doesn'thit market saturation at, say 2%
or whatever the target is right?
They will pull the plug kind ofin a mechanical way, right?
(11:26):
There's nothing wrong withquantitative measures.
There's nothing wrong withsaying if we don't make$2
million on this idea in our POCstage, maybe we don't sink
ourselves all the way into thehole.
So at the corporate level,they've gone through it so many
times.
They have some kind of processthat they're working with.
On the startup level, right?
Again, it's all spirit andheart.
(11:47):
These people have thrown theirlives in.
And sometimes they believeharder, if you tell them that's
impossible or that's nottechnically achievable, they're
all the more determined.
Yes! And they put on their capesand they get out there and they
wanna achieve.
Part of it's like nurturing andencouragement.
Certainly I don't wanna focus onthe negative, right?
(12:07):
But the other part of it ishaving the humility to know you
might not understand the marketand you might be way out of
sync.
As an emerging tech person, ifthere's like a new gadget that
comes out, I wanna try newgadget, or I wanna see people
who have tried the new gadget,and then I'm gonna decide if I'm
gonna buy the new gadget.
And how much interest I have inthat, right?
(12:27):
And my house, my studio here islittered with the gadgets,
right?
But then do I believe in thisfounder?
And does this founder have arealistic notion of what the
market is?
And it's like pulling them backfrom the ecstasy, all puns
intended of the high of being afounder and saying, look, this
is your life.
You're wrapping your life aroundthis.
Let's make sure it's a solidthing.
(12:49):
And so, there's always those twotensions in qualitative and
quantitative metrics for whatsuccess looks like or what
progress looks like are key tomaking those calls.
They're almost dispassionate atthat point.
Nathan C Bowser (13:02):
Thank you for that! You talked about this sort
of spiritual connection.
You talked about reallyunderstanding a founder and
their vision.
There's some hints at thebalance and like real life
factors like a salary that likefounders need in order to be
(13:24):
successful.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout your vision and of a
successful young startup andwhat are the kinds of things
that you're coaching neworganizations and these
businesses that you work withtowards?
Dr. Diane Bowser (13:38):
The most important thing I have left,
okay?
Isn't my money, it's notanything in this frame.
It's my time.
It's my time.
That's all I have.
That's all I own.
And if I'm gonna give it toanother individual, I want to
give it out of empathy, love,and kindness.
Like period.
(13:58):
If we're building a gardentogether, we're building a piece
of tech together.
I don't care what we're doingtogether.
That's what I have, that's mymost precious gift to you.
And I wanna make sure our timeisn't gonna be spent on negative
drama and BS.
So spiritually, what am I tryingto assess?
Is this person mature enough totake this idea?
(14:19):
This startup idea from thepassion that it is, this great
idea and passion, to the longdays and nights.
Often we associate withworkaholism, right?
To make this a reality.
Like, can that person, do theyhave that stamina, right?
And what's driving them and howadaptive are they, when the
(14:41):
struggle comes.
Like I wanna get into a strugglewith them right away, a shared
struggle, a shared problem thatwe can solve.
Like right away I wannaunderstand what the pain points
are and share a struggle withthem so I can understand them.
Nathan C Bowser (14:56):
Do you have an example?
Dr. Diane Bowser (14:58):
Yeah! So I had a founder my first founder and
we're gonna talk about learningfrom mistakes because you're
painting it as if I just knowhow to throw successes out of
the bag.
And let's be real.
The reason I was trying to start10 companies in 15 years is
probably seven of them wouldfail.
Let's be cold and real and maybeeven eight or nine would fail.
(15:19):
But that one I own the piece ofthat one was worth the time.
And I can go back and reinvestin that one.
So knowing when to let go,right?
And knowing when to strugglewith them.
That very first struggle withinthe first few weeks, that kind
of tells me, that sets atemperature for the party.
What's this party gonna be likelong term?
(15:40):
And and how are we going to facechallenges together?
And then that tells me a lotabout what I can give them.
What I can help them with,right?
How can I spend time with them?
And then there's a good, better,best, right?
Then I start talking aboutpackages.
I can do this for you, but thisis a limited package.
Or I can do, this is what betterlooks like, but you have to be
(16:03):
willing to do X, Y, and Z.
And so things are conditional.
Because that's my time I'mtrading for their business to
make them wealthy.
I'm not owning the majority ofthat business.
They are, right?
And then the best is, you're inthe right place, you've got the
right product, you're the rightperson for the struggle.
You have a pretty good ideaalready, and what you need is
(16:25):
just technical help.
You need the technical, like thecorporate knowhow I can bring
for like, here are yourprocesses.
Here's how to get that stuffgoing.
Those are the easiest people.
You almost never find theeasiest people though.
Nathan C Bowser (16:36):
That's absolutely fascinating! So often
in a client relationship thereis this like, whatever you want,
I'll figure out how to do it.
Especially if you are a newfounder, trying to find your
way, bending to everybody'swhatever is like the fastest way
to get spun out into a millionpieces and not gain any
(16:57):
traction.
But this idea of what is arelationship, a working
relationship like when you setexpectations for each other and
are clear about like theboundaries and requirements that
are required to make certainkinds of changes or to do work
(17:18):
together.
In like a musical example, it'slike saying I want you to be my
drummer, but you can only usekeypads.
I want your services, but fornothing you're good at.
And it is so common! and likepeople jump for that.
I'm curious, how did you findthat sweet spot and like your
sort of voice as anentrepreneur, right?
(17:41):
Like your zone or that?
Yeah.
Dr. Diane Bowser (17:43):
So I came from music and performance arts,
right?
And I spent my whole childhoodand my whole life there.
I'm a classically trainedmusician.
I toured with international drumand bugle corps and I taught
music as a side hack all the waythrough college.
And you always have to negotiatethose jobs, right?
You don't even go to play at thebar until you get paid in
(18:03):
advance.
So you become like a person usedto rejection.
What does the arts train youfor?
Rejection.
Negotiation.
Emotional involvement.
Because the arts really grab usin a way, I think technology
grabs me that way too,'cause I'ma little weird.
But the arts grab us in a verypowerful, soulful way.
(18:23):
And so being all in that waytaught me like what it would be
to be a good artist, right?
And if you can pull money inyour coffers as an artist, which
I had to do until I was wellthrough grad school at an
advanced age.
Again, I'm not willing tomention! I was moving along, and
then of course you look at thosesuccesses, right?
(18:44):
I look at those wins in the artsand I say if I could do that
with some drumsticks, here wehave some technology, some
drumsticks and a soldering gun.
And I have this.
In tech, I think we just have toextend that principle.
People are passionate, peoplewanna make good things.
People want other people toenjoy and use their things.
And so we have to masternegotiation.
We have to master the art ofconflict.
(19:07):
And adaptation to just unseenand unpredictable market forces
that we don't know when we'replanning, we don't know there
will be tariffs.
We don't know!
Nathan C Bowser (19:17):
This comment alone just warms my heart so
much because the reason that Igot into tech and the reason why
I do so much media is because myfirst career was in art
galleries and I saw howeverybody wanted the help of
(19:38):
creatives and artists and howlike whole industries flourished
on this creative energy, and yetnobody fights for the creators.
Creators have to fight forthemselves.
And if you can make it as anindependent artist, you have way
more, right?
(19:58):
Like I would argue you have waymore negotiation, market
research, right?
Iterative process.
You have the skills that ittakes to launch a company
because you probably had tostart three or four just to be a
musician, right?
Like you're publisher, you'redoing your publicity, you're
doing your distribution, you'vegot every single aspect of
(20:19):
several businesses that you'rerunning.
So those non-traditionalfounders, those sort of
non-technical founders thatalways get panned when you're
talking to like hypergrowth VCsare often the ones that really
know how to find what is an MVPproduct.
What is a lovable experience?
You know what can people enjoy?
(20:40):
Shout out to creative andnon-technical founders! You
probably already have the skillto go make something happen and
just need to put it into a newwrapper.
I think it's time to get to oneof my favorite questions, and
the show is called The Glow Up,right?
Which is a notabletransformation, a rebirth.
(21:00):
A revitalization of sorts.
So I use this to talk about sixmonth goals, short term goals.
What's your big audacious goalfor the work that you're doing
in immersive technologies?
Dr. Diane Bowser (21:11):
My big audacious goal at the corporate
level is to skill up my team andhelp us integrate new AI
technologies into XR in healthyways that respect our users.
It's really simple.
And what do I mean by respectour users?
Their privacy.
Their data.
And their trust and confidencethat Lenovo would never do
(21:33):
anything weird with their dataor share their data.
And make an experience thathelps them save time and
productivity.
That's simple.
In a corporate way that's reallysimple.
You can do that.
And it's measurable.
On the CodeReal side, right?
On this building company side.
This is a lifelong project.
I realized it's not just 15years long.
It might go on longer! And mygoal there is to encourage
(21:57):
everyone.
I mean, this isn't going to bean ageist thing, but I wanna
bring the next two generationsalong.
I want the Millennials and theZ's and even the Alphas.
I want them to think about theirlives and careers as a series of
businesses they're going tomake.
And a series of projects they'regoing to do.
And I want them to bring theirentire selves to the table.
(22:19):
So the dance class and the musicbackground and the sports
background and whatever theyhave, I want them to bring all
of it to the creative table andmake companies.
And I want them to make theirown companies.
I think we need a world that'smore dynamic, that's more based
on small and medium sizedbusinesses.
And I want them to feel thefreedom that I can.
(22:40):
So I'm encouraging people,especially non-technical people,
you don't have to be technical!Maybe the AI's gonna take care
of a lot of the technical stuffin the future, maybe.
And like you said people whohave had resiliency in the arts
or resiliency in sports, orresiliency in some performance
oriented occupation, often theyknow how to survive and they
(23:00):
know what people need maybe intheir particular niche or maybe
in another niche where they havea hobby.
And so we shouldn't rule outnon-technical founders.
We should pair them andintroduce them to the technical
people of the world and makecompanies together.
So I want to glow up this notionof innovation.
Nathan C Bowser (23:18):
Heck yes! I'm always so inspired when my
guests bring a big goal.
And the great thing about biggoals, right?
Is even on your path to them,you can make some outstanding
contributions.
Oh! There's so many things thatI wanna dive into! The idea of
data and privacy in a world ofwearables is one of the most hot
(23:44):
button issues that I've seen allyear in what we've been putting
out in The Glow Up.
Charlie Fink had some commentsrecently about wearables that
just showed me how much peopleare really concerned about
privacy.
The images come to mind when youhear wearable technology.
People think about it as likebody tracking.
(24:05):
They think about it asmicrochips and COVID vaccines.
Wearables spawns a whole rangeof exposure and opinions.
Dr. Diane Bowser (24:13):
Lenovo has this reputation, think about the
ThinkPad.
You see it everywhere.
And so they have a greatreputation.
They're the number one PC makerin the world, right?
And so companies clearly trustthem.
And so the goal of my work thereis to continue that.
Just continue that.
And make them feel good inwearables and safe in wearables.
And if they're gonna adaptwearables into their tech
(24:35):
stream, they know that it comesfrom the same company that built
that ThinkPad.
We respect you and we respectyour data.
That, to me, is the biggestthing I could do in my role at
Lenovo as we move forward withemerging technologies.
In the world, I want my foundersto be resilient and adaptive.
I want them to abandon bad ideasand go to good ideas.
(24:55):
And I want them to be courageousand brave because coming from
the arts, right?
3,000 people will tell you no.
And one, one will tell you yes.
And that's the one you'relooking for! And that to me is
resilience.
Nathan C Bowser (25:08):
This idea of supporting Gen Alphas and Z's in
all of their interests andskills, I think is just
outstanding.
And there's a bit of a theorythat I've been working on about
how a lot of business tools youcan tell the influence of
(25:29):
millennials and Z's who arehardcore gamers all their lives
because so much of software isturning into game mechanics,
right?
The price for most like businesssoftwares has gone from hundreds
and thousands of dollars a monthto$10-$15 video game starter
(25:51):
pack costs.
The way that we use AI servicesand buy them and quantify them
is in tokens.
We're building avatars and NPCsto guide us through worlds like
this.
Everything that we're doing isbuilt on these game mechanics.
And I can tell you my kids havespent more than tens of
(26:13):
thousands of hours, in-worldlearning game theory,
understanding resources,building strategies to hit goals
faster, learning whereinvestment works, where it's not
worth it, right?
Like their understanding of thiscapitalist economics and like
(26:33):
how to engage and like directattention is like innate at this
point.
Dr. Diane Bowser (26:39):
That's a beautiful tie in! That is it.
They're learning and they'repracticing and they're getting
their 10,000 hours of businessexperience playing, what is
that?
It's not Animal Farm...
What was it called?
Nathan C Bowser (26:50):
Oh! Animal Crossing.
Dr. Diane Bowser (26:51):
Yes!
Nathan C Bowser (26:52):
That's where we started!
Dr. Diane Bowser (26:53):
I heard my son and his friends arguing about
who had to go to work and whohad to pay the mortgage.
And I was like, this sounds toomuch like adult life! Why are
you playing this?! But like yousaid, they're learning all about
capitalism.
And that's like a capitalismlittle engine for playtime.
And then showing them how theycan turn that into real money in
(27:14):
the real world.
That's where two Bowser's makingmoney in XR makes a lot of
sense!
Nathan C Bowser (27:20):
Love it! Dr.
Diane, we always like to maketime for a community spotlight
or a shout out for groups doingsomething of impact or of good
that you see in the world.
Is there anybody that you'd liketo share a little spotlight
with?
Dr. Diane Bowser (27:36):
Sure, I'd like to share my spotlight with The
Virtual World Society that youwell know from AWE and Dr.
Tom Furness, who has given hisretirement, I wanna stress, he
gave his whole career tobuilding VR.
He's considered one of thefathers of VR, worked for NASA.
People who are interested, lookhim up! University of
(27:56):
Washington.
Just an incredible, generousfigure in XR.
He comes to AWE every year.
Again, out of retirement tointeract with the audience and
grow the community.
I wanna continue that spirit andI wanna give the big shout-out
to The Virtual World Societybecause they're bringing this
technology to the very group ofpeople I'm interested in helping
in the CodeReal kinds ofprojects, right?
(28:18):
The startups.
Start up the startups and makean ecosystem.
And so the Virtual World Societydistributes that technology, and
I would encourage anyone wholistens to this podcast and
wants to be a member of thatsociety and make a contribution
to get out there and do it.
Nathan C Bowser (28:33):
Oh my gosh! Big shout out to everybody over
there at Virtual World Society,doing fantastic work! Is there
anything that you're lookingfor?
Do you have a call to action forThe Glow Up audience?
I.
Dr. Diane Bowser (28:44):
I do! I want The Glow Up audience to take a
look at the ecosystems you'reworking in.
Right now.
And look for green field.
I want you to look for greenfield.
We're in a very early stage,like the internet is 30 years
old, right?
Arguably the internet is justbecoming an adult.
Our field in XR is still atteenager time! And you and I
(29:06):
meet in this generativeconference environment every
year.
And so for The Glow Up audience,I want you to look at these
companies and look at whatthey're doing well.
Companies like Niantic who havebig goals like mapping the
world, companies like Snap, whoare putting wearables on your
face and I wanna see if you canfind a place for the things that
you care about.
The things that you care about!What would you do in that world
(29:30):
to show people the things thatyou care about, the products you
care about, the people you careabout, the causes you care
about.
We're gonna need an integratedworld that's not just products,
it's gonna be products andcauses and projects that we do
together.
Nathan C Bowser (29:44):
I love it! It's all connected!
Dr. Diane Bowser (29:46):
My case study and again, I'm gonna draw on
AWE, our shared experience isthe Women in XR.
When you look at the companiesthat the Women in XR, that's
another shout out.
I know I got in two orgs!
Nathan C Bowser (29:56):
XR Women.
Yes! XR Women is amazing!
Dr. Diane Bowser (29:59):
But when you look at the companies the
members of that organization aredesigning.
They really took that advice,right?
They really went to spaces thatwere underserved and brought
services and technology andcauses to the table that really
need to be addressed.
So I just want to shout out andglow up all of these things that
are growing up in our industryat the teenage level and let us
(30:23):
take them, let us spend the nextdecade taking them to a mature
level.
Nathan C Bowser (30:27):
Oh my goodness! One last question is just how
can people follow up and learnmore if they wanna be connected
with the work that you're doing?
Dr. Diane Bowser (30:34):
So if they wanna be connected with the work
and they're thinking aboutcompanies then connect with me
through CodeReal.io or LinkedIn.
Right?
I'm Dr.
Diane Bowser on LinkedIn.
So I'm really easy to find!CodeReal is CodeReal.io.
But again, this isn't just abaseless self-promotion.
Lenovo's doing a lot of goodwork in R&D.
And I want people to think aboutcareers in technology and
(30:58):
exploring careers that theydidn't think were open to them.
I want a diverse technologycommunity building the next
generation.
And I want us to think about howwe can help and collaborate and
coordinate with each other.
So if you wanna find me, I'measily findable on LinkedIn.
I'm findable at Lenovo and atCodeReal.io.
Nathan C Bowser (31:20):
Amazing! We'll find Dr.
Diane Bowser in the PrincessPeach I think pink car when
we're playing Mario Kart.
Dr.
Diane, it has been such apleasure to chat with you today.
I love that we bonded over somevery light level things about
being Bowsers in XR.
(31:40):
But that today we were able toexplore such a wide variety of
ideas and innovation.
And I love this comparison ofhow small startups and new ideas
can grow and take root, and howlarge corporations are
approaching similar ideas.
(32:01):
And this thing that you pointedto both of them.
That, like helping thoseorganizations remember and live
the values that they've alreadyestablished is like one of those
tools that you use in both casesjust warms my heart endlessly.
And I can't wait to see the next10 startups you support, working
(32:24):
with Millennials and Z's and A'sto develop this next generation
of entrepreneurs and almost likethe personal entrepreneurial
layer to the internet.
So many big ideas there.
Thank you for joining me on TheGlow Up.
It's been a blast!
Dr. Diane Bowser (32:42):
It was my honor to join you.
I deeply admire the work thatyou've done for AWE, and I just
wanna give a shout out to thattoo, because you're very humble
and maybe a lot of peoplewouldn't now, but we met because
of all the good work you didthere.
And we're really creating acommunity of practitioners,
right?
So the more of us that wannagrow businesses, this is how we
(33:02):
get together in XR and we makemoney together, right?
We figure out our commoninterests and we figure out who
has the good ideas.
And with all of our collectiveexperience in this space, I
think we can make a big impactover the next decade.
I hope it looks better andnothing like it does today.
10 years from now, I hopewearables are just so light, we
(33:24):
don't even think about them.
Like a pin on my little shawl!
Nathan C Bowser (33:27):
Oh, it's gonna be a great future! Especially if
the Bowsers have anything to sayabout it! Dr.
Diane Bowser, it's been apleasure.
Thank you so much!
Dr. Diane Bowser (33:37):
You're welcome! Bye-bye.
Hello and welcome to The Glow Up! I'm
Nathan C and I am pleased tobring you a very special
separated at birth episode ofThe Glow Up.
Today I'm talking with Dr.
Diane Bowser, Senior Manager ofEmerging Technologies at Lenovo,
and Founder of CodeReal.
(00:20):
Hey, we're Bowsers in XR.
We gotta talk!
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:22):
I'm thinking like, Tale of Two Cities, like
"Two Bowsers, Two Views on XR."
Nathan C Bowser (00:27):
"A Tale of Two Bowsers." It was the best of XR.
It was the worst of XR.
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:33):
You can be the best!
Nathan C Bowser (00:34):
One of the questions I actually was really
curious about right, is if wehave two Bowsers on the podcast,
like...
who actually stole the princess?
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:46):
Well, I want the car.
Okay, I'm just gonna be upfront.
I want the car!
Nathan C Bowser (00:50):
Yeah.
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:51):
So I guess I'm the driver!
Nathan C Bowser (00:53):
Dr.
Diane, it is so good to see youtoday! Thanks for joining me on
The Glow Up.
Dr. Diane Bowser (00:57):
Likewise, I'm thrilled to join you and I
excited to talk about XRtechnologies today!
Nathan C Bowser (01:04):
Could you introduce yourself and talk to
us a little bit about the workthat you do with emerging
technologies like XR?
Dr. Diane Bowser (01:13):
I work at Lenovo in emerging technologies,
which is exciting because it'san R&D department at Lenovo.
And of course, spatial isnothing new in the world at
large, but for big enterprisecompanies and integration of
spatial technologies with AI andall the other new technologies
emerging technologies teams havegrown up.
And this is a dream gig for me.
(01:35):
This is a company, Lenovo, wherethey sell hundreds of millions
of laptops, right?
So the potential to make a bigimpact is huge.
And that's why I am working withLenovo right now!
Nathan C Bowser (01:46):
I love that focus.
One of the things that is alwaysvery top of mind in emerging
technologies is likedistribution and supply chain.
Whether you're an app that'slimited to certain kinds of
phones, like a wearable forinstance, that's trying to make
a global impact thatdistribution and supply chain
seems really important and likesomething that's baked in to a
(02:10):
company as big and far reachingas Lenovo.
Nice call there!
Dr. Diane Bowser (02:14):
Lenovo's a great OEM, right?
And so the impact, theopportunity to make wearables,
right?
Is a little bit different thanthe opportunity to design for
preexisting wearables.
And so CodeReal's aboutencouraging innovation in
startup and Lenovo's aboutcapitalizing on that to the
biggest market possible.
So that's why I like the twosides, right?
(02:36):
The startup energy on one sideand the corporate energy on the
other.
Nathan C Bowser (02:40):
Okay! I have to know, these are both like hard
problems, both different sizes,different players but both
playing in some very interestingspaces at the edge of what is
possible.
Can you talk about how you gothere and where this all started
for you?
Dr. Diane Bowser (02:59):
Sure! So this started many moons ago, more
than I'm willing to admit.
My start was as a classicalmusician and the instruments you
see behind me, I started codingto make sound libraries for
those and plug them into MIDIand make computers talk to each
other digitally.
So we were at the advent of theswitch from analog to digital
(03:20):
recording studios.
We're filming this in myrecording studio.
And I was always interested indoing the next thing, maybe
sometimes so interested that Iwas so far out ahead, no one
else was interested.
And they were like,"What futurething are you doing?" And so
that's the connective glue thatholds my whole career together.
I started by building recordingstudios and new technologies for
(03:41):
those.
I went back to school and got aPhD in philosophy, right?
I left my musical classicaltraining on the floor.
I left everything on the floorand I started teaching logic and
philosophy, and then the itch tobuild things came again.
You can never not be aninnovator once you start
soldering and hacking and so onand so forth.
(04:02):
So my specialty in philosophywas technology.
In the academy, those thingsdon't go together, right?
You can't cross teachingcomputer science and philosophy.
So the academy was unkind tothose interests in many ways,
right?
They wanted very traditionalpeople in very separate places.
And I was one person who wantedto traverse all these spaces and
just tear down the barriers.
(04:23):
And that was rogue.
That was really rogue.
So I decided I had to leaveacademia after 20 years of
teaching and build startups, andthat's where CodeReal came into
the picture.
I gave myself a little projectto build 10 companies in 15
years.
Spend a year or a year and ahalf with each of those
companies.
So that was the problem, right?
We need more startups, we needmore energy, we need more people
(04:47):
innovating and my goal was toget these companies off the
ground and work with founders.
And what you learn when you workwith founders is founders are a
bit pathological.
And I love you, founders! I'mone of you! I'm one of you.
But we get committed to a visionin the founder community.
It's huge.
And people don't wanna let go ofthat vision even when it's not
maybe panning out in the UXsense.
(05:08):
And I'm all about UX and theusers.
And the use cases might not fitthe technology.
And so I would give thesecompanies a year or a year and a
half to wake up and get it andstand up.
And then if I liked thatfounder, I would wanna own a
little piece of that company andgo to the next one.
And when we got to companynumber six, I owned it.
CodeReal.
And I started it with adeveloper partner of mine and
(05:31):
the company is predicated on oneidea.
We're gonna take other academicslike myself who have great ideas
in their lab.
They're looking for grants andpeople to develop the software
into a more mature state, right?
Here I am, I've left academia.
I can write grants with them,and then I can help them spin
out and stand up their companyand continue my 10 and 15
(05:51):
project through CodeReal, right?
So that, that's one very focusedgoal.
My my goal in academia wasalways to get a lab where I
could play with emergingtechnologies.
It's super simple.
It's just super simple! There,there's no complex path there at
all.
And along came Lenovo during thepandemic when it was almost
impossible to be a startupcompany and get people to put XR
(06:12):
headsets on their head.
That was like a quest to say theleast, all puns intended.
And so there I was trying to getpeople to put headsets on their
head.
And heads in Lenovo came alongand said,"We wanna build these
wearables and we'd like to havesomebody along who can help lead
the software development." Andso to me, there was some synergy
and synchronicity, and Lenovowas very kind about this whole
(06:33):
startup notion, like they wantan ecosystem too.
So they didn't mind that I wasworking in that ecosystem, and I
found a way to make these twothings work together.
Nathan C Bowser (06:42):
I'm a little bit floored at how you seem to,
as the founder have a verystrong instinctual understanding
of like your strengths andvision and passion and can
balance this very nicely againstsuccess metrics, right?
(07:03):
Like actual business impact sothat you're constantly building
on learning, but also learninghow to grow and build successful
business.
So wow! That you were able to dothat once, but that you also
saw, a bigger opportunity.
So you made that space twice! Orsix or seven times.
(07:25):
I'm just floored! I love it!When you're working on so many
ideas and engaging in these sortof future spaces, it's gotta be
hard not to just wanna dive into certain big trends, certain
juicy problems, but you've got alot of responsibilities as this,
(07:46):
like multi-threaded founderinnovator.
How do you stay focused onkeeping each project, each
activity at the level that itneeds to be while also
continuing to probe and grow andpush the edges?
Dr. Diane Bowser (08:02):
I'm gonna talk about time blocking, right?
So the skill is time blockingand really sticking to your time
blocks, even when that's notfeasible.
Like you think, I need more thanan hour to do X, right?
But I only have an hour, sowhat's the one thing I can do to
push X forward today?
And so on that level, it waslike progress for each of these
projects is like the thicknessof a sheet of paper, right?
(08:24):
But if you stack a lot of paper,it gets heavy and it has weight.
The other thing was knowing whento let go of bad ideas.
And bad founders! So forCodeReal I'm working with
founders successively, right?
I'm pouring all that energy intothat founder for a year or for
18 months, and I'm trying to getto know their soul and the soul
of the business they're tryingto build.
(08:44):
And I say that in a veryspiritual way because if
everything's not aligned, and ifthey're not trying to create the
right experience, we're gonnaget on the struggle bus together
and maybe battle each other! Meand the founder, right?
And not just me, like all theother people who are on the bus
with us.
And it takes a lot of humilityto think you can start one
company.
(09:04):
And here I am, like I'm gonnastart 10 in 15 years.
So knowing when to let go of badideas and bad founders to stay
focused, knowing when to let goof struggles and circuses that
are not yours.
You know not my monkeys, not mycircus, not my dream.
And go to the next betterfocused thing.
And then focusing on what doesdone look like?
(09:27):
What does our goal look like?
Like when can we say, we made itor we're done, or we've stood
this company up and it's readyto fly on its own.
Having really easy metrics.
Easy metrics! Like, are wemaking money?
Do people take salaries, right?
Do we have investors or foundersor runway where we can develop
(09:47):
an MVP and really be successful?
Let's be realistic! I thinkthat's my number one thing.
And then having the courage tosay, and the humility to say
this isn't, I can't accomplishthis with you.
I need to move to the nextproject because you would be
better served by people who areX than maybe Diane Bowser.
(10:08):
Right?
And so the humility to bow outwhen you know you can't make it
happen for that person.
It's not always them.
Sometimes it's the product.
Sometimes it's the dream,sometimes it's the market.
Nathan C Bowser (10:19):
Yeah! Being able to cut your losses or
understand when something isn'tproductive feels really
challenging when you're in thisfounder's mindset where,
especially in emerging tech,where like you might be so new
and you're being told to betenacious, to believe in your
(10:42):
idea.
I'm curious and is there asecret to letting go of ideas
that you've held reallypassionately whose time just
isn't ready?
And like, how do you socializeand get large global
organizations to make thosekinds of hard choices or to
(11:02):
approach those kinds of hardchoices?
Dr. Diane Bowser (11:05):
In large global organizations, they have
mechanisms for sorting theirideas and prioritizing their
research and development, right?
So they have quantitativemetrics, right?
If we do a POC and it doesn'thit market saturation at, say 2%
or whatever the target is right?
They will pull the plug kind ofin a mechanical way, right?
(11:26):
There's nothing wrong withquantitative measures.
There's nothing wrong withsaying if we don't make$2
million on this idea in our POCstage, maybe we don't sink
ourselves all the way into thehole.
So at the corporate level,they've gone through it so many
times.
They have some kind of processthat they're working with.
On the startup level, right?
Again, it's all spirit andheart.
(11:47):
These people have thrown theirlives in.
And sometimes they believeharder, if you tell them that's
impossible or that's nottechnically achievable, they're
all the more determined.
Yes! And they put on their capesand they get out there and they
wanna achieve.
Part of it's like nurturing andencouragement.
Certainly I don't wanna focus onthe negative, right?
(12:07):
But the other part of it ishaving the humility to know you
might not understand the marketand you might be way out of
sync.
As an emerging tech person, ifthere's like a new gadget that
comes out, I wanna try newgadget, or I wanna see people
who have tried the new gadget,and then I'm gonna decide if I'm
gonna buy the new gadget.
And how much interest I have inthat, right?
(12:27):
And my house, my studio here islittered with the gadgets,
right?
But then do I believe in thisfounder?
And does this founder have arealistic notion of what the
market is?
And it's like pulling them backfrom the ecstasy, all puns
intended of the high of being afounder and saying, look, this
is your life.
You're wrapping your life aroundthis.
Let's make sure it's a solidthing.
(12:49):
And so, there's always those twotensions in qualitative and
quantitative metrics for whatsuccess looks like or what
progress looks like are key tomaking those calls.
They're almost dispassionate atthat point.
Nathan C Bowser (13:02):
Thank you for that! You talked about this sort
of spiritual connection.
You talked about reallyunderstanding a founder and
their vision.
There's some hints at thebalance and like real life
factors like a salary that likefounders need in order to be
(13:24):
successful.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout your vision and of a
successful young startup andwhat are the kinds of things
that you're coaching neworganizations and these
businesses that you work withtowards?
Dr. Diane Bowser (13:38):
The most important thing I have left,
okay?
Isn't my money, it's notanything in this frame.
It's my time.
It's my time.
That's all I have.
That's all I own.
And if I'm gonna give it toanother individual, I want to
give it out of empathy, love,and kindness.
Like period.
(13:58):
If we're building a gardentogether, we're building a piece
of tech together.
I don't care what we're doingtogether.
That's what I have, that's mymost precious gift to you.
And I wanna make sure our timeisn't gonna be spent on negative
drama and BS.
So spiritually, what am I tryingto assess?
Is this person mature enough totake this idea?
(14:19):
This startup idea from thepassion that it is, this great
idea and passion, to the longdays and nights.
Often we associate withworkaholism, right?
To make this a reality.
Like, can that person, do theyhave that stamina, right?
And what's driving them and howadaptive are they, when the
(14:41):
struggle comes.
Like I wanna get into a strugglewith them right away, a shared
struggle, a shared problem thatwe can solve.
Like right away I wannaunderstand what the pain points
are and share a struggle withthem so I can understand them.
Nathan C Bowser (14:56):
Do you have an example?
Dr. Diane Bowser (14:58):
Yeah! So I had a founder my first founder and
we're gonna talk about learningfrom mistakes because you're
painting it as if I just knowhow to throw successes out of
the bag.
And let's be real.
The reason I was trying to start10 companies in 15 years is
probably seven of them wouldfail.
Let's be cold and real and maybeeven eight or nine would fail.
(15:19):
But that one I own the piece ofthat one was worth the time.
And I can go back and reinvestin that one.
So knowing when to let go,right?
And knowing when to strugglewith them.
That very first struggle withinthe first few weeks, that kind
of tells me, that sets atemperature for the party.
What's this party gonna be likelong term?
(15:40):
And and how are we going to facechallenges together?
And then that tells me a lotabout what I can give them.
What I can help them with,right?
How can I spend time with them?
And then there's a good, better,best, right?
Then I start talking aboutpackages.
I can do this for you, but thisis a limited package.
Or I can do, this is what betterlooks like, but you have to be
(16:03):
willing to do X, Y, and Z.
And so things are conditional.
Because that's my time I'mtrading for their business to
make them wealthy.
I'm not owning the majority ofthat business.
They are, right?
And then the best is, you're inthe right place, you've got the
right product, you're the rightperson for the struggle.
You have a pretty good ideaalready, and what you need is
(16:25):
just technical help.
You need the technical, like thecorporate knowhow I can bring
for like, here are yourprocesses.
Here's how to get that stuffgoing.
Those are the easiest people.
You almost never find theeasiest people though.
Nathan C Bowser (16:36):
That's absolutely fascinating! So often
in a client relationship thereis this like, whatever you want,
I'll figure out how to do it.
Especially if you are a newfounder, trying to find your
way, bending to everybody'swhatever is like the fastest way
to get spun out into a millionpieces and not gain any
(16:57):
traction.
But this idea of what is arelationship, a working
relationship like when you setexpectations for each other and
are clear about like theboundaries and requirements that
are required to make certainkinds of changes or to do work
(17:18):
together.
In like a musical example, it'slike saying I want you to be my
drummer, but you can only usekeypads.
I want your services, but fornothing you're good at.
And it is so common! and likepeople jump for that.
I'm curious, how did you findthat sweet spot and like your
sort of voice as anentrepreneur, right?
(17:41):
Like your zone or that?
Yeah.
Dr. Diane Bowser (17:43):
So I came from music and performance arts,
right?
And I spent my whole childhoodand my whole life there.
I'm a classically trainedmusician.
I toured with international drumand bugle corps and I taught
music as a side hack all the waythrough college.
And you always have to negotiatethose jobs, right?
You don't even go to play at thebar until you get paid in
(18:03):
advance.
So you become like a person usedto rejection.
What does the arts train youfor?
Rejection.
Negotiation.
Emotional involvement.
Because the arts really grab usin a way, I think technology
grabs me that way too,'cause I'ma little weird.
But the arts grab us in a verypowerful, soulful way.
(18:23):
And so being all in that waytaught me like what it would be
to be a good artist, right?
And if you can pull money inyour coffers as an artist, which
I had to do until I was wellthrough grad school at an
advanced age.
Again, I'm not willing tomention! I was moving along, and
then of course you look at thosesuccesses, right?
(18:44):
I look at those wins in the artsand I say if I could do that
with some drumsticks, here wehave some technology, some
drumsticks and a soldering gun.
And I have this.
In tech, I think we just have toextend that principle.
People are passionate, peoplewanna make good things.
People want other people toenjoy and use their things.
And so we have to masternegotiation.
We have to master the art ofconflict.
(19:07):
And adaptation to just unseenand unpredictable market forces
that we don't know when we'replanning, we don't know there
will be tariffs.
We don't know!
Nathan C Bowser (19:17):
This comment alone just warms my heart so
much because the reason that Igot into tech and the reason why
I do so much media is because myfirst career was in art
galleries and I saw howeverybody wanted the help of
(19:38):
creatives and artists and howlike whole industries flourished
on this creative energy, and yetnobody fights for the creators.
Creators have to fight forthemselves.
And if you can make it as anindependent artist, you have way
more, right?
(19:58):
Like I would argue you have waymore negotiation, market
research, right?
Iterative process.
You have the skills that ittakes to launch a company
because you probably had tostart three or four just to be a
musician, right?
Like you're publisher, you'redoing your publicity, you're
doing your distribution, you'vegot every single aspect of
(20:19):
several businesses that you'rerunning.
So those non-traditionalfounders, those sort of
non-technical founders thatalways get panned when you're
talking to like hypergrowth VCsare often the ones that really
know how to find what is an MVPproduct.
What is a lovable experience?
You know what can people enjoy?
(20:40):
Shout out to creative andnon-technical founders! You
probably already have the skillto go make something happen and
just need to put it into a newwrapper.
I think it's time to get to oneof my favorite questions, and
the show is called The Glow Up,right?
Which is a notabletransformation, a rebirth.
(21:00):
A revitalization of sorts.
So I use this to talk about sixmonth goals, short term goals.
What's your big audacious goalfor the work that you're doing
in immersive technologies?
Dr. Diane Bowser (21:11):
My big audacious goal at the corporate
level is to skill up my team andhelp us integrate new AI
technologies into XR in healthyways that respect our users.
It's really simple.
And what do I mean by respectour users?
Their privacy.
Their data.
And their trust and confidencethat Lenovo would never do
(21:33):
anything weird with their dataor share their data.
And make an experience thathelps them save time and
productivity.
That's simple.
In a corporate way that's reallysimple.
You can do that.
And it's measurable.
On the CodeReal side, right?
On this building company side.
This is a lifelong project.
I realized it's not just 15years long.
It might go on longer! And mygoal there is to encourage
(21:57):
everyone.
I mean, this isn't going to bean ageist thing, but I wanna
bring the next two generationsalong.
I want the Millennials and theZ's and even the Alphas.
I want them to think about theirlives and careers as a series of
businesses they're going tomake.
And a series of projects they'regoing to do.
And I want them to bring theirentire selves to the table.
(22:19):
So the dance class and the musicbackground and the sports
background and whatever theyhave, I want them to bring all
of it to the creative table andmake companies.
And I want them to make theirown companies.
I think we need a world that'smore dynamic, that's more based
on small and medium sizedbusinesses.
And I want them to feel thefreedom that I can.
(22:40):
So I'm encouraging people,especially non-technical people,
you don't have to be technical!Maybe the AI's gonna take care
of a lot of the technical stuffin the future, maybe.
And like you said people whohave had resiliency in the arts
or resiliency in sports, orresiliency in some performance
oriented occupation, often theyknow how to survive and they
(23:00):
know what people need maybe intheir particular niche or maybe
in another niche where they havea hobby.
And so we shouldn't rule outnon-technical founders.
We should pair them andintroduce them to the technical
people of the world and makecompanies together.
So I want to glow up this notionof innovation.
Nathan C Bowser (23:18):
Heck yes! I'm always so inspired when my
guests bring a big goal.
And the great thing about biggoals, right?
Is even on your path to them,you can make some outstanding
contributions.
Oh! There's so many things thatI wanna dive into! The idea of
data and privacy in a world ofwearables is one of the most hot
(23:44):
button issues that I've seen allyear in what we've been putting
out in The Glow Up.
Charlie Fink had some commentsrecently about wearables that
just showed me how much peopleare really concerned about
privacy.
The images come to mind when youhear wearable technology.
People think about it as likebody tracking.
(24:05):
They think about it asmicrochips and COVID vaccines.
Wearables spawns a whole rangeof exposure and opinions.
Dr. Diane Bowser (24:13):
Lenovo has this reputation, think about the
ThinkPad.
You see it everywhere.
And so they have a greatreputation.
They're the number one PC makerin the world, right?
And so companies clearly trustthem.
And so the goal of my work thereis to continue that.
Just continue that.
And make them feel good inwearables and safe in wearables.
And if they're gonna adaptwearables into their tech
(24:35):
stream, they know that it comesfrom the same company that built
that ThinkPad.
We respect you and we respectyour data.
That, to me, is the biggestthing I could do in my role at
Lenovo as we move forward withemerging technologies.
In the world, I want my foundersto be resilient and adaptive.
I want them to abandon bad ideasand go to good ideas.
(24:55):
And I want them to be courageousand brave because coming from
the arts, right?
3,000 people will tell you no.
And one, one will tell you yes.
And that's the one you'relooking for! And that to me is
resilience.
Nathan C Bowser (25:08):
This idea of supporting Gen Alphas and Z's in
all of their interests andskills, I think is just
outstanding.
And there's a bit of a theorythat I've been working on about
how a lot of business tools youcan tell the influence of
(25:29):
millennials and Z's who arehardcore gamers all their lives
because so much of software isturning into game mechanics,
right?
The price for most like businesssoftwares has gone from hundreds
and thousands of dollars a monthto$10-$15 video game starter
(25:51):
pack costs.
The way that we use AI servicesand buy them and quantify them
is in tokens.
We're building avatars and NPCsto guide us through worlds like
this.
Everything that we're doing isbuilt on these game mechanics.
And I can tell you my kids havespent more than tens of
(26:13):
thousands of hours, in-worldlearning game theory,
understanding resources,building strategies to hit goals
faster, learning whereinvestment works, where it's not
worth it, right?
Like their understanding of thiscapitalist economics and like
(26:33):
how to engage and like directattention is like innate at this
point.
Dr. Diane Bowser (26:39):
That's a beautiful tie in! That is it.
They're learning and they'repracticing and they're getting
their 10,000 hours of businessexperience playing, what is
that?
It's not Animal Farm...
What was it called?
Nathan C Bowser (26:50):
Oh! Animal Crossing.
Dr. Diane Bowser (26:51):
Yes!
Nathan C Bowser (26:52):
That's where we started!
Dr. Diane Bowser (26:53):
I heard my son and his friends arguing about
who had to go to work and whohad to pay the mortgage.
And I was like, this sounds toomuch like adult life! Why are
you playing this?! But like yousaid, they're learning all about
capitalism.
And that's like a capitalismlittle engine for playtime.
And then showing them how theycan turn that into real money in
(27:14):
the real world.
That's where two Bowser's makingmoney in XR makes a lot of
sense!
Nathan C Bowser (27:20):
Love it! Dr.
Diane, we always like to maketime for a community spotlight
or a shout out for groups doingsomething of impact or of good
that you see in the world.
Is there anybody that you'd liketo share a little spotlight
with?
Dr. Diane Bowser (27:36):
Sure, I'd like to share my spotlight with The
Virtual World Society that youwell know from AWE and Dr.
Tom Furness, who has given hisretirement, I wanna stress, he
gave his whole career tobuilding VR.
He's considered one of thefathers of VR, worked for NASA.
People who are interested, lookhim up! University of
(27:56):
Washington.
Just an incredible, generousfigure in XR.
He comes to AWE every year.
Again, out of retirement tointeract with the audience and
grow the community.
I wanna continue that spirit andI wanna give the big shout-out
to The Virtual World Societybecause they're bringing this
technology to the very group ofpeople I'm interested in helping
in the CodeReal kinds ofprojects, right?
(28:18):
The startups.
Start up the startups and makean ecosystem.
And so the Virtual World Societydistributes that technology, and
I would encourage anyone wholistens to this podcast and
wants to be a member of thatsociety and make a contribution
to get out there and do it.
Nathan C Bowser (28:33):
Oh my gosh! Big shout out to everybody over
there at Virtual World Society,doing fantastic work! Is there
anything that you're lookingfor?
Do you have a call to action forThe Glow Up audience?
I.
Dr. Diane Bowser (28:44):
I do! I want The Glow Up audience to take a
look at the ecosystems you'reworking in.
Right now.
And look for green field.
I want you to look for greenfield.
We're in a very early stage,like the internet is 30 years
old, right?
Arguably the internet is justbecoming an adult.
Our field in XR is still atteenager time! And you and I
(29:06):
meet in this generativeconference environment every
year.
And so for The Glow Up audience,I want you to look at these
companies and look at whatthey're doing well.
Companies like Niantic who havebig goals like mapping the
world, companies like Snap, whoare putting wearables on your
face and I wanna see if you canfind a place for the things that
you care about.
The things that you care about!What would you do in that world
(29:30):
to show people the things thatyou care about, the products you
care about, the people you careabout, the causes you care
about.
We're gonna need an integratedworld that's not just products,
it's gonna be products andcauses and projects that we do
together.
Nathan C Bowser (29:44):
I love it! It's all connected!
Dr. Diane Bowser (29:46):
My case study and again, I'm gonna draw on
AWE, our shared experience isthe Women in XR.
When you look at the companiesthat the Women in XR, that's
another shout out.
I know I got in two orgs!
Nathan C Bowser (29:56):
XR Women.
Yes! XR Women is amazing!
Dr. Diane Bowser (29:59):
But when you look at the companies the
members of that organization aredesigning.
They really took that advice,right?
They really went to spaces thatwere underserved and brought
services and technology andcauses to the table that really
need to be addressed.
So I just want to shout out andglow up all of these things that
are growing up in our industryat the teenage level and let us
(30:23):
take them, let us spend the nextdecade taking them to a mature
level.
Nathan C Bowser (30:27):
Oh my goodness! One last question is just how
can people follow up and learnmore if they wanna be connected
with the work that you're doing?
Dr. Diane Bowser (30:34):
So if they wanna be connected with the work
and they're thinking aboutcompanies then connect with me
through CodeReal.io or LinkedIn.
Right?
I'm Dr.
Diane Bowser on LinkedIn.
So I'm really easy to find!CodeReal is CodeReal.io.
But again, this isn't just abaseless self-promotion.
Lenovo's doing a lot of goodwork in R&D.
And I want people to think aboutcareers in technology and
(30:58):
exploring careers that theydidn't think were open to them.
I want a diverse technologycommunity building the next
generation.
And I want us to think about howwe can help and collaborate and
coordinate with each other.
So if you wanna find me, I'measily findable on LinkedIn.
I'm findable at Lenovo and atCodeReal.io.
Nathan C Bowser (31:20):
Amazing! We'll find Dr.
Diane Bowser in the PrincessPeach I think pink car when
we're playing Mario Kart.
Dr.
Diane, it has been such apleasure to chat with you today.
I love that we bonded over somevery light level things about
being Bowsers in XR.
(31:40):
But that today we were able toexplore such a wide variety of
ideas and innovation.
And I love this comparison ofhow small startups and new ideas
can grow and take root, and howlarge corporations are
approaching similar ideas.
(32:01):
And this thing that you pointedto both of them.
That, like helping thoseorganizations remember and live
the values that they've alreadyestablished is like one of those
tools that you use in both casesjust warms my heart endlessly.
And I can't wait to see the next10 startups you support, working
(32:24):
with Millennials and Z's and A'sto develop this next generation
of entrepreneurs and almost likethe personal entrepreneurial
layer to the internet.
So many big ideas there.
Thank you for joining me on TheGlow Up.
It's been a blast!
Dr. Diane Bowser (32:42):
It was my honor to join you.
I deeply admire the work thatyou've done for AWE, and I just
wanna give a shout out to thattoo, because you're very humble
and maybe a lot of peoplewouldn't now, but we met because
of all the good work you didthere.
And we're really creating acommunity of practitioners,
right?
So the more of us that wannagrow businesses, this is how we
(33:02):
get together in XR and we makemoney together, right?
We figure out our commoninterests and we figure out who
has the good ideas.
And with all of our collectiveexperience in this space, I
think we can make a big impactover the next decade.
I hope it looks better andnothing like it does today.
10 years from now, I hopewearables are just so light, we
(33:24):
don't even think about them.
Like a pin on my little shawl!
Nathan C Bowser (33:27):
Oh, it's gonna be a great future! Especially if
the Bowsers have anything to sayabout it! Dr.
Diane Bowser, it's been apleasure.
Thank you so much!
Dr. Diane Bowser (33:37):
You're welcome! Bye-bye.
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