The Tech Night Owl LIVE Feb 21, 2015

The possibilities for an Apple car are front and center. You'll hear two distinct views on whether such a thing might happen, and the Night Owl has been skeptical. First up is Jonny Evans, Computerworld's "Apple Holic," who clearly doesn't believe any of it. He'll also talk about Apple Watch, the possibilities for an iPad Pro, a version with a display of 12 inches or more, and the state of the music industry and digital music. You'll also hear from Bryan Chaffin, co-founder and co-publisher of The Mac Observer, who has a decidedly more positive view to present on an Apple motor vehicle. As someone who helped spark the current stories on whether or not Apple is working on such a product, he'll present some fascinating insights. Bryan will also talk about the promise of Apple Watch, about future proofing such a gadget, and he'll also cover Apple's approach to security. A key point, that Tim Cook says that companies such as Google regard you as the product, whereas Apple's products are the hardware and services they sell.

Episode Transcript

(00:25):
Welcome to the Tech Night owl Live, the show for PC users who can
handle the truth and now. Here'syour host, Gene Seiberg. This week
on the Tech night Owl Live,we'll be featuring Johnny Evans, the Apple
Holic from Computer World Magazine. They'llalso hear from Brian Chapman of the mac

(00:47):
Observer. All this and more onthe Tech Night Owl Live. Let me
ask you a question, Johnny Evansthe Appleholic? Is there a show like
Saturday Night Live in the UK?Not as intelligent as that? He was
always really intelligent. I don't thinkwe've got anything good in the UK at
the moment show wise. I don'twatch much TV. That's why I like
my Apple TV so much, partiallybecause it gets me get to Netflix and

(01:11):
Jonathan Rath's Maybe Sometimes I don't thinkthe show hosts over here have the kind
of political and social sensibilities that youget from Saturday Night Live, where it's
all just a bit more switched on. Do you watch Doctor Who sometimes?
I've been watching it since I wasfive. I met Doctor Who Wants John
Pertwick. I think he was arguablythe finest doctor. I was a little

(01:34):
tiny child. I thought he wasthe real doctor, and I thought,
you know, hey, if thereal doctor's turned up in this cafe that
I happened to be in, thereis going to be pursued by some kind
of monsters really soon. So,being a very small child of about five,
I hid under the table and cried, and John Berwick came up and
said what a nice little boy Iwas, and my mum was impressed because

(01:55):
he was quite good looking. Perhapsthat wasn't the best story in the world,
and I know it did because Iwas there. His son plays Alfred
the Butler in the American series Gotham, the prequel to Batman. You know
that, right, do you know? I think I did know that I
could actually sort of Perhaps I couldwrite to him and say I met your
dad once and we could be friends, But I doubt it would work out

(02:16):
like that. He also played inthe American modern day Sherlock Holmes series Elementary.
He played Lestrade. You see you'reyou clearly are more of a Pertry
fan than I ever took you for. Gene, I'm not. I'm just
noticing that. Yeah, I don'tcare one way or the other, because
they would be Sam Smith. Asfar as I'm concerned. You know anything

(02:38):
that's related to Doctor Who and theDoctor Who universe. I think that's part
of it. See you like that? Well, just think though, the
current doctor Who was the first onein years who was older than you are.
The others were just kids the lastfew years. It's quite reassuring.
Really. Okay, So are youready now to go out and buy an
Apple car if Apple produced one?No, I'm not. I can't drive,

(03:04):
Are you serious? Yeah? Man, I don't live in America.
I can use trains and cabs andpeople who drive. Well, that's interesting.
My son drives, but he livesin Madrid and he never drives the
car there. He doesn't own acar. He takes public transportation. He's
perfectly happy with it here where Ilive. If I don't have a car,

(03:25):
I'm stuck, yeah, for sure. And if I do move to
the beautiful English countryside at any pointin my benighted existence, which I laughingly
call my life, I too willneed to figure out how to drive.
I used to ride motorbikesiles you knowthat near fatal accident, and that was
that. I don't drive cars allright, But anyway, let's talk about
an Apple car. Supposedly, accordingto the Wall Street Journal. And we

(03:47):
can't always assume the Wall Street Journalis correct because we don't have an iPad
pro yet. But let's look atthis particular story. Supposedly Apple has hired
hundreds of engineers or deployed hundreds ofengineers, some from the auto industry,
to some project called Titan, atop secret project that some think will ultimately

(04:09):
result in a car. Of course, I also read an article in Autoweek
just a few days ago suggesting thatApple doesn't have the smarts to build a
car. How could they know howto make ten thousand different parts work together?
Of course, they said, Appledoesn't have the smarts to make a
smartphone. Apple doesn't have the smartsto make a tablet. They've got one
hundred and eighty billion dollars in thebank, so if they want to make

(04:31):
a car, they'll make a car. Yes, they've got the cash,
But why would they think about it? Cars are big? Cars are big,
big, big objects, large objects. You've got to take a huge
chunk of metal or you know whatever, you make your car from fiberglass,
if you manufacture the factory in America, and that would not surprise me,
and then you would have to shipit worldwide. That's a massive distribution and

(04:54):
warehousing exercise. Why not just sellthe intelligence in the car? That's the
exciting bit anyway. I mean,yes, Apple could make the car,
but I think for I think,I think it's also equally interesting, at
least for Apple to make the intelligenceinside the car. So if we see
this as an evolution of car play, where car play becomes the go to

(05:14):
industry standard leading telematics solution for forfor vehicle control and access in a sort
of switched on connected age, thenthat's got to be a more exciting space
for Apple than to sort of worryabout the manufacturing of cars. They'd have
a load of money tied up incars. I'm not I'm not. I'm
not convinced they're making cars. Ican be convinced to make car telematics,

(05:39):
basically taking car play and making itgood that I can buy much more easily.
So, as one article said,Apple doesn't just want to make a
car. What they want to dois make the dash I did. I
think I remember seeing that somewhere.Yes, I think some people that's that's

(05:59):
that's pretty That's my argument. Really, why make the car when you don't
need to make the car. There'slots of people make cars. Where it
can fall down, of course,is if they're not getting sufficient partnerships from
auto manufacturers, not enough interest fromauto manufacturers, If they can't get their
solution picked up by auto around manufacturers, then perhaps making a car becomes another

(06:20):
way in there, because like ata lump it, connected vehicles are kind
of an essentral part of the machineto machine connected future technology that's being sort
of built at us right now,all around us. I mean, there's
so many different levels of events takingplace now or relate to that, from

(06:41):
the cybersecurity initiative the other day,to the information that will be picked up
by your car, to connected healthsystems and the Apple Watch. This is
all about a connected planet, thedystopian angle of which has to be considered
because you can't just blindly run intotechnological call advance of that nature without considering
user privacy and control. And Ithink you could take the Google model.

(07:04):
They clearly don't give very little foruser privicy and control. Their argument towards
it being privacy is outdated. Therefore, don't worry about it. I think
some of us would prefer to holdon to a little. These debates will
feed into these events, and theidea that Apple might be moving into auto

(07:27):
feeds quite you know, it's asconnected to a connected future as Apple moving
into the Apple Watch. You know, ones on your wrist and ones on
your bum but you know you're goingto be taking both of these things from
me to be and they're going tobe speaking to other connected objects on your
journey, and that those connected objectswill include big, big analytical systems which
will take the information that you provideto do other things with from managing healthcare

(07:53):
and transit information to figuring out ifyou can't need a service, or just
sending you the message from your auntMabel. I mean, this is a
connected future. We are part ofit. Apple will be exploring, I
imagine, every potential possibility of sucha connected future while it tries to both

(08:15):
move ahead of where we are now, figure out where we're going, and
also then to establish where the profitpotential profit centers are in which it can
make a difference. I mean,hasn't that always been its way? But
as we put intelligence in everything,the opportunity and the possibility has really extended.
Again, I'm not convinced Apple needsto make the car, but it

(08:35):
would be good for Apple to makethe intelligence in the car. Well possibly
here what they're doing is they're buildingcar prototypes on which to test these things.
Oh, not impossible at all.I mean, there's all the talkers
and there of that sort of strange, spooky It's an Apple van. It's
an Apple van that hundreds of SanFrancisco journalists I think now are riding around

(08:58):
on motorbikes trying to track down andget pictures of the inside and pictures of
the number plates and let's figure outwhat the inside tread is, which is
ultimately meaningless information because even with allthose images, we still don't know what
it's doing. What it could bedoing indoor mapping. It could be doing
city mapping. It could be increaseimproving the three D images. It could
be you know, like the Googlecars used to do. It could be
testing self driving, which, ofcourse, I think in some parts of

(09:20):
the States is now allowed. I'mnot sure of this, actually I can't
quite remember recall, but I seemto remember that in some parts of the
US it has been made sort ofrelatively legitimate to test self driving vehicles in
public spaces. Yes, we'll gointo that in our next segment. A
bit later in this episode, we'llbe hearing from the one and only Brian
Schaffan of the mac Observer. Andby the way, I'll give you a

(09:43):
hint about what he's going to talkabout. He has a decidedly different view
about the Apple car Johnny Evans,the Appleholic is here. I'm Gene Steinberg.
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(14:18):
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We have Johnny Evans, d Appleholic. We're talking about the rumors about Titan,
the alleged project by Apple to createa car. Now, obviously Apple

(15:28):
has the finances and can certainly buythe knowledge to build a car if they
wanted, but as you say,they're more interested in the intelligence behind the
cars. So where do you thinkthis is going to lead a new airplay
or do you think in the endApple may have to build a car or
maybe they want to do Elon muskone better. Well, there's the talk.
Also, isn't there of an Applebuys Tesla which bounces up from time

(15:52):
to time? Why it bounces up? I don't know if there's any truth
in that, because I've got noinsight into that. I do know that
Tesla pr harder to deal with eventhan other prs I've dealt with at times,
but equally Tesla's hot. So willit be Apple buys Tesla again?
Why if Apple can reach a partnershipwith Tesla, that may be more advantageous.

(16:14):
Again, Also, another part ofthis is I can't help but think
when pondering these affairs of Apple andMotorola and the itunes's phone and how you
know, during the experience of attemptingto work with mobile manufacturers, Apple kind
of somewhere picked up we might haveto do this ourselves. You can't take

(16:36):
cards off the table in this game. Apple's looking at its cards right now.
If indeed Apple has invested one thousandpeople into trying to develop something,
and if indeed it has some cardszipping around San Francisco doing something incredibly geeky
but highly intelligent that is going tomagically change the world and make it a
better place while preserving personal freedom andenabling environmental progress by being electric rather than

(16:57):
fossil fuel based, then that's allvery exciting. And if Apple is looking
around opening up the possibilities by lookinginto what is available and what is available
to it within the technologies it ownsor can invent or buy. Then everything
is possible. Seventy five billion,someone says to buy Tesla, that's quite
a lot of bread. I'm notconvinced on that. You know, So

(17:18):
it could happen. I could goshopping in ten minutes, but I probably
won't because I'm talking to you.Well, you know, it's interesting here.
As far as buying Tesla for seventyfive billion, I don't think Apple's
interested in making that kind of investment. I think it would cost them less
to build their own car company becauseit didn't cost seventy five billion for Tesla
to get started. I think.I mean again, they wouldn't boild the

(17:42):
car, would they. They'd seekpartnership, they'd seek manufacturing partners, they'd
seek technology, they'd license technologies forwhere they didn't have them. One of
the reasons, which you know theycan have been having a lot of extensive
meetings with Tesla over battery technology.Anything that anybody can do to build advantage
and battery technology now is incredibly valuableand important and worthwhile and for Buddy really

(18:03):
needs it, so we can havean iPhone that last a week, which
we will have one day, butwe don't have yet. And so,
you know, they're a great dealof time and money, and there's experiments
and people doing research projects all overthe world. There's always interesting things coming
out of career, but they neverseem to come to anything in terms of
advancing battery technology, and that issomething which would be critical. You know,
both Tesla and Apple would be ableto get along fine if they were

(18:26):
able to share investment in battery technologies. So perhaps there's opportunities for various kinds
of synergy between those companies which canbe explored. It is interesting that you've
got all this sort of like thestaff exchanges which are being reported as going
on. And what's also interesting iswe've had all these reports of Tesla looking
Apple staff and Apple taking Tesla staff. And look how close to the auto

(18:47):
industry Apple already is. Look atthis Ferrari for readque. You know,
there's a few bits and pieces goingon, isn't there. They're clearly getting
their hands dirty in that industry.So it could happen, But does it
need to? Does it need to? Isn't that one of the questions Apple
asked, Can we make a differencehere? Do we need to? So?

(19:07):
Do they need to? Can theymake a difference? What difference would
a car made by Apple make?It would be made by Apple, But
how could it be a car madeby Apple which was significantly better than a
Tesla and significantly better than the lowprice electric and self driving cars we can
expect to see from Hyundai and othersin the next couple of years. How
can Apple make a significant difference bydelivering a car? Well, some people

(19:32):
have been reading the recent New Yorkerreport with a brilliant piece of work.
I saw into Jonathan Johnny Ive andnoting that he stays about, well,
aren't modern cars terrible? While hedrives in his Bentley. He's got a
driver, so you know, andperhaps you know, I'm sure Apple thinks

(19:52):
about everything. But would you beable to fit a car on Johnny Ive's
desks? A pretty small car,but you just think could be the car
that basically expands in size when youneed to use it. But seriously speaking
here, okay, the problem iswhen Apple disparages are product. That's the
precursor to saying that's what Apple's goingto do next, isn't it? Sometimes

(20:17):
it does seem to have had thathabit in the past. Who needs a
tablet anyway? Phones? It couldhappen. It doesn't mean it will.
It could. Maybe they'll do aspacecraft that would be interesting. There's there's
it is interesting amongst the people thatsome of the Apple executive follow. You

(20:38):
find a Virgin Galactic and you findTesla, and we're all going to get
together and inventor an Apple powered spaceship. I guess they will at some point
in the future. And I guesssomewhere in the future we can imagine Apple
powered personal flying craft will be ableto have those. Then, you see,
because because these are connected flying craft, they'll be able to zip around

(21:00):
in our skies and they'll never crashbecause they will know where each others are,
where they're going, and using bigdata analysis, will be able to
figure out exactly how to avoid eachother in flight, and humans won't even
be driving them, thus reducing themargin of error, except that, of
course, there'll still be a marginof error, because all the talk of
technology being a solution to everything alwayscompletely ignores the idea that we've got a

(21:22):
bunch of people to program it.Still, let's gloss over that and think
about the enabling factors. Yeah,Apple could make a spaceship. There is
logical ways in which it could happen. There technology already exists which it could
from which it could be made.Apple could figure out how to do it
in an environmentally friendly way. Andindeed, rather than creating a spaceship on
Earth, they could simply put somethree D printers on NASA whin conjunction with

(21:48):
NASA on the Moon, and startprinting their spaceships out of Moondust. Perfect
resource. Maybe they could get afew thousand workers to go up there and
create them. Seriously, because it'spossible doesn't mean it's going to happen,
but it might happen. It mightthe car might happen. What you just
did, Johnny, is to causeall the rumor sites to cover Mac or

(22:11):
Apple issues, to say a rumora forum source suggests that Apple is preparing
to build a spaceship that will takeus to Mars to figure out what those
clouds are they're having on Mars nowadays. Yeah, isn't that strange? That's
really weird, the cloudy Mars.It's like somebody on Mars was singing the

(22:33):
song Cloudy by Paul Simon and itgot away from him because of the lighter
atmosphere. I don't know what Ijust said. Johnny Evans is here.
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Night Owl because you never know what'sgoing to happen. Next, we'll continue

(27:22):
on the Tech Night O Live withJohnny Evans. We started with an Apple
car that probably won't happen. MaybeApple just wants to control the dash because
if they control the dash, theycontrol everything. Maybe Apple will have technology
for self driving cars that they willlicense to other companies. Maybe there will
be an Apple spaceship called the Ieshipor the Apple Ship or the Apple Flying

(27:45):
Saucer. Maybe they're getting it fromalien technology that was acquired from the wreckage
of the spaceship that crashed at Rosemon, New Mexico. What do you judge
Evans show? That's my other show. Yes, yeah, man, which
is fair enough? Did they acquireoh those lovely alien technology rumors? They

(28:06):
don't spark up anything like as muchas they used to do they. I
seem to remember that being fairly frequentmileage things earlier in the days of the
Internet. But these days, theInternet being such a sanitized place, you
don't get to hear the really excellentrumors quite as often less. Of course,
he listened to Gene Steinberg's excellent show, where I'm sure he has all
these rumors and speculations placed in tidy, easy to digest snippets for your listening

(28:30):
pleasure. What is there? Willthere be an Apple car? I think
that's where we are. We don'tknow, But aren't the rumors interesting?
Don't they seem to be building upsome kind of currency. What I think
we can tell here is that wasit last year when Tim Cook spoke somewhere
and he noted some of the thingsthe company had done and some of the
acquisitions the company had made, andalso pointed out and the rumors pretty much

(28:52):
said, yeah, we're doing alot of stuff, but the people who
watch us all the time don't evenknow all the stuff we're doing. And
now here we are in January,February of this year, and suddenly all
these little rumors are proably popping up, each of which indicates that indeed,
Apple has got a couple more flourishesplanned for the next twelve months. And

(29:14):
they really weren't being quiet when wethought they were being quiet, were they?
It looks like they were being very, very busy. I knew Tim
Cook was good at this stuff asan operations guy. He kind of put
together lots of different teams and kindof empowered and enabled them to start working
in lots of different directions. SoI think it's probably quite an exciting time
to be an Apple watcher. It'sjust a shame the company continues to be

(29:36):
doomed. It's terrible. I've neverknown a company be doomed for quite as
long have you. Apple has beendoomed since nineteen seventy six. The problem
is they won't listen. It's justoutrageous, isn't it. I mean,
how doomed can a doomed company get? And they look terribly beleaguered as well
as be leaguered companies go. Appleis the champ of being be leaguered.

(29:56):
They don't say Microsoft is be leaguered. They don't say sam Song has been
leaguered because they're not making as muchmoney on wireless handsets as they used to
be. Only Apple can be doomedto die any second now, especially now
it's the biggest company in the world. Clearly it's only got one direction.
That's crazyness, isn't it. Imean? Meanwhile, meanwhile, over in

(30:18):
Africa, Samsung is busy putting togetherit's a Connected School initiative, which,
as I understand it seems to bea bunch of tablets and other sort of
mobile devices made by Samsung which they'vetried to sort of stick together with some
educational software which they're trying to stickinto various sort of developing world countries.
For Zibit some kind of budget pricewhich just made me think iTunes you.

(30:41):
But maybe I shouldn't say that.Maybe I'm just being mean. What do
you think? Do you think I'mbeing mean? Gene? You know,
let's move beyond this because I thinkwe've saturated this subject. Cool And by
the way, this weekend on theother show, the Power Cast will be
talking about a book called Death onMars with doctor John Brandenburg about whether someone

(31:03):
invaded Mars years ago when they hada burgeoning civilization and use nuclear weapons to
get rid of them. You know, it must violate the prime directive.
I don't know. We have toget into something like that later. You've
written kind of a manual or guideto Apple Watch information. What we know
about it. As we sit heremere weeks before the Apple Watch will debut,

(31:27):
we want to know what's going on. Tell us that's a very open
ended question, mister Steinberger. Idon't know we even know where to begin
with that as a question. I'lltell you what. It'll be a watch.
You'll put it on your wrist.Loads of people will want one.
It will remind you to stand upoccasionally, and it will have some health

(31:48):
features and a few apps, andlater this year it will have on board
standalone apps. But I still thinkthat's going to slip until a bit later
on, and it won't be asgood as the next Apple Watch. It
will be pretty good, and it'sgoing to have to be pretty good given
that some people spending several thousand dollarsto own a gold one. What else
do we know? They're going tosell millions of them. They're just going

(32:08):
to do it, and the highpits building up, the interest in the
product is building up, and Ican't help but think what they've actually managed
to do is a chief a productwhich works correctly. You know, it's
sort of like it's wearable technology,which looks like it's being done pretty close
to right, which is not badfor I know. What they've had really
is a few Samsung devices to drawinspiration from. Admittedly, not many people

(32:31):
bought those Samsung devices and the peoplewho didn't really use them, but I
mean that's inspiration anyway. I thinkpeople will use these watches. What would
you like to know? Well,okay, let's look at some of the
different things here. First we haveto compare Apple Watch with the competition,
So we know what seven hundred thousand, seven hundred thousand Android ware devices have

(32:53):
been sold. We know, forexample, that Pebble claims have sold one
million, but it took about ayear and a half. If we're adding
this up, we have, youknow, between two and two and a
half million smart watches being sold.So if Apple sells three or four million
the first month or so, theynow own the industry just because of the

(33:14):
virtue of the fact that nobody hasreally made a success of smart watches.
So the barrier to entrying, thebarrier to great success is not very high.
The barrier to great success in thiscase isn't just the sales, but
the usage, and I think Ithink that's really where we'll have to judge

(33:36):
events. I mean, Apple's lookingat like a billion I don't know device
users out there, and of thatit wants to sell to maybe zero point
one percent. So that's still quitea lot of you know, it's a
lot of thousands and millions of peoplethey're aiming to shift. I believe,
according to some of the reports I'msponsing out today, around five to six

(34:00):
million in the first quarter. Giventhe loyalty of the Apple fan base,
that's probably possible. But what's reallycritical is the experience that people who the
first early adopters of this device,the experience that people have, it's really
going to be critical when you havethe watch, when you use it.

(34:22):
There's excuses to use it. Applepay looks like it's a key reason to
use it. It's used as aremote for your Apple TV. That would
be one reason that people use it. I think people are going to like
the tap on the wrist stuff thatit does. I think that will I
think people will kind of fall forthat. Over time. I think people

(34:42):
will use the fitness elements that itoffers, and it's nice to think that
those elements will improve. I alsobelieve that as soon as the Apple Watches
out there in circulation, you've gota really good opportunity for third party developers.
I mean, we're talking about seriousthird party developers from the sort of
medical and vices firms to put togetherFDA et cetera regulated tools which are compatible

(35:07):
with the watch enabling and indeed theiPhone enabling Apples ecosystem to suddenly sit at
the heart of quite advanced medical operation, medical medicine and caregiving tasks. So
I think it's got a good chanceof being nonbjective that's used and when it

(35:29):
is used. It's got to impressand it's got to look good and people
have to be happy with it,and people will have to feel no frustration
with it, you know, thatwhole element of friction. And at this
stage, given that you know,we haven't seen it hit the mass market,
we are at that sort of Itreminds me really of just before we
waited for the iPod. We didn'tquite know what was coming. We had

(35:52):
a vague idea of what was what. We kind of knew how it was
going to work, and yet wedidn't. And then and then when it
did appear, people just fell forthis device because it sort of it really
fit what people's great subconscious imagination seemedat that time to expect from a music
player. It just managed to fitthat space. Will the watch fit the

(36:16):
smart watch space? It's got achance to Apple being Apple, and Apple's
track record being what it is.Others have tried to get their first.
I still believe that they tried todo it because they knew Apple would a
little bit later on this episode ofThe Tech nine Our Live, you'd be
hearing from Brian Chaffin from the MattObserver. So stay tuned. Let's continue

(36:37):
this with Johnny Evans, the appleholicfrom Computer World Magazine. I'm Geene Steinberg.
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(41:08):
the Tech Night Owl Live with GeneSteinberg. We have Johnny Evans, the
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(41:29):
any further, do me a favor. Go to plus dot tech nightow dot
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(41:52):
s dot tech night ou dot com. Johnny Evans is here. We were
talking about all the possibilities with regardto the Apple Watch, which is going
on sale list sometime in April.Now I'm guessing here that the top line
gold watch is going to go forwhat two to five thousand dollars? Does
that make sense? I think thatpeople are predicting it might be higher.

(42:15):
Again, nothing's been announced, soI do not know. But it's going
to cost, isn't it. It'sgoing to have like you know, it's
going to have some dollar. Youknow, people are going to really want
to have that watch, but it'snot upgradeable. Well, that is the
issue. There was an article fromJohn Martallero of the mac Observer, suggesting

(42:36):
that maybe Apple will provide a wayto upgrade the internal workings by pulling out
the module and throwing a new onein. There is that possibility, but
is it really possible. There's stillmore to learn from this. They've saved
a few bits, haven't they.Again, as per usual, there's naughty,

(42:57):
spesky, tiky Apple people have holda few little features and ideas back.
I can't imagine the people earning thetop of the range gold models or
platinum models and white gold models willnecessarily feel happy if they've got to buy
a new one next year. Imean, I know that there are a

(43:17):
lot of incredibly rich people in theworld, and perhaps I find it difficult
to think as they think, andperhaps they are quite happy to have that
kind of attitude towards conspicuous consumption.Maybe it's just my sort of like vaguely
Protestant soul that things that that lookswrong. I mean, they could have

(43:37):
an exchange program. They could havea scheme by which if you take your
old watch back, perhaps you getthe new one for a discount. There
are things, and there's plenty oflatitude for how Apple can account for that
almost like you know, hey,buy a watch on rental, But they
haven't announced anything of that kind,and I think some of the thinking maybe

(43:59):
too far fetch. However, Irespect John Martarella, and it is really
possible that watches being miniature objects,and the amount of energy Apple has invested
in this, that they could havefigured out how to make the core of
the machine replaceable. It's possible.It's only a part if you make it.
If you make it a solid statepart that sort of like sits into

(44:22):
a particular slot, then there isthe potential that in future you can upgrade
it. But Apple's not done thatbefore, so I'm you know, really,
what do you think, Gene,Well, here's the problem with the
watch. A watch is that somethingyou replace in two years or five years.
And I'm not unusual. I keeptalking about this. I've got this

(44:42):
guest watch I about ten years ago. It's had a couple of replaced batteries.
Otherwise it gives me fairly accurate time, so I always use it.
It's in pretty good shape. Ihave no reason to buy any one.
It costs seventy five hours. AsI said, Now, if you're spending
three hundred and forty nine dollars fora watch, or five thousand if you

(45:05):
want the thing with the gold ormore. I have no idea what the
price would be. I expect itwill be expensive. It will be fine
jewelry. You don't want to buya new one next year or two years
from now, or five years fromnow or ten years from now. This
is going to be a long termpurchase. So Apple really needs to find
a way to future proof this device, otherwise it's going to limit sales.

(45:27):
Now. Maybe it can't be donethe first year, and I think Apple
has to make a way for itto work mostly as a standalone device,
and that won't be done the firstyear, but ultimately they're going to have
to do that. Johnny, whatdo you think. They're clearly going to
have to figure out how to makesure that people at the luxury end of
the market don't get bored. Youknow, they're going to have to make
sure that if you do buy one, you don't feel you know, disappointed

(45:51):
in. It all comes down tothe user experience, doesn't it. Owning
ownership of the watches is the userexperience, And if after one year,
year or whatever, the incremental basison which upgrades are made turns out to
be. But if after X yZ time there is a new watch and
you don't feel like you've had thatwatch for very long, that would impact
the user experience. How then,can Apple maintain the quality of a luxury,

(46:17):
premium end user experience in the watchfield without sort of overcomplicating it?
How to do it in a simpleway. It's got to be simple.
It can't be, you know,you give this back and we'll give you
this and two dollars and a newrubber bungee. It's got to be you
know, elegant and as designed asthe object itself. That sort of you

(46:37):
know, that's quite clear. That'show you do things properly. And so
people's time is limited too, ofcourse, and particularly the people who will
be buying the luxury item will haveincredible limited time. And we'll know almost
certainly have some of attitude towards themselvesby which to say, you know,
they think they deserve to be treateda certain way. Has Apple opened up

(47:01):
a can of worms it hasn't gotthe ability to meet. Has it perhaps
taken on a challenge here that ithasn't yet recognized. I'm just a pundit,
But I know that old pundits arerecognized and this is a potential challenge.
Equally, do you really think Applehasn't thought about it? So it
will be definitely interesting to see howthey address that real challenge a future proofed

(47:25):
smart watch. Yeah, hmm,let's just leave it there. Maybe as
we get closer to the release ofApple Watch, we'll know more. But
let me ask you, because wetalked about the Wall Street Journal and the
prediction of Titan being the Apple car. They predicted an iPad pro, which

(47:45):
we haven't seen yet, which meansnothing it could happen. What do you
think I've kind of gone with theiPad pro because it makes sense to me,
and I haven't expected to see anythingof that just yet. I can
imagine. I mean, you know, if you think about how things are,
say, but shaping up. Let'sjust take a quick sit back.
We've got Apple Pay. We nowApple Pays heading towards inter internationalization. We

(48:07):
hear the rumor that's being sort ofsparked around a lot is that it's having
problems in China. The one thathasn't been ploked around, which came out
the same source yesterday, is thatApple is also preparing to launch Apple Pay
in Brazil, so you know thatdoesn't seem to be hitting regulatory problems.
So we now Apple pay is oneof the things. We've got the Beats
thing going on. We've got iTunesRadio, which is meant to be internationalized

(48:29):
ages ago, We've got the Beatsthing happening. We know that something's got
to be happening in iTunes, andyou can sort of feel it in the
water that at some point Apple's gotto try and do something both to sustain
iPad sales and to maintain interest inits iTunes revenue because iTunes is becoming such
an important segment of the whole operation, and clearly then it needs to occasionally

(48:50):
put some life into it. Wehear enough claims that something's going on.
They've that huge Beats purchase last year. We know something's going on. So
there what we've got there, We'vegot a pay, We've got iTunes,
We've got Apple Watch, We've gotwe've got the persistent rumors of a new
MacBook Air, and we've got theretina display, and we've got the constant
expectation of an iPad pro. Sothere's five different things, all of which,

(49:14):
as far as I can tell,seem to sort of have some kind
of a lock between them. Andwould it really be surprising if we turn
around in thirteen weeks, within thenext thirteen weeks and find at least some
of those hopes have been realized.Couple are going to have the Apple Watch
coming out in April. Why wouldthey not take advantage of the huge attention

(49:37):
that that will be there when theApple Watch does sort of ship to,
you know, try and popularize acouple of other ideas while they're at AA.
It's just standard making sense, isn'tit. It's just a sensible way
to approach things. They've built amassive hype around one object, their practice
usually has been to rub a littlebit more of it. Of the two
or maybe three other things. Ithink they seem to believe in the law

(50:00):
three most frequently. So it mightjust be that we see one or two
of those and one thing in therun up to the Upple Watch launch.
So I'm not worried about the iPadprobe not being showing its smiling face just
yet. I kind of see thatas just you know, certainly just be
in January, man, we're stillgetting over Christmas rushing. You know.

(50:21):
The one thing here about an iPadpro. I see a market for it,
but not necessarily the mass market.I see a business market for in
the enterprise, something that IBM cansell. I see it in content creation,
where graphic artists will embrace something likethat with a fancy stylist or something,
maybe an Apple pen. We talkedto someone last week about the possibility

(50:45):
of Apple using their patents for anApple pen, a more sophisticated stylus that
you could use to draw or virtuallypaint a picture. That would create new
opportunities for artists, kind of likea live scrimp something like that. Of
course, I do not know howto use such things. You know.

(51:05):
I can manage squares and rectangles andcurves and oval shapes very good at that.
Of course, the various tools dothat automatically. I just have to
specify the dimensions. I don't wantto get there. We have other dimensions
to talk about in our remaining twosegments with Johnny Evans the Apple Hollic from
Computer World Magazine. More to come. I'm Gene Steinberg. You're in the

(51:28):
Tech Night al Lie A little right, a little left, but always independent
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Welcome back to the Tech Night owlLive, where you never know what's
going to happen next. And nowhere's Gene Steinberg. If Johnny Evans the

(54:12):
Apple halic, I'm Gene Steinberg.You're in the Tech Night Olive and we've
been talking about such things as AppleWatch. Could it be future proved whether
Apple will have an Apple car aneye car. I don't think they use
ee anymore. I think I hasgone III. Johnny Evans, you don't
think they're going to have too manymore products with the eye in it,

(54:32):
do you? I don't know.Well, I appreciate the words of wisdom,
and you certainly have a gift forbrevity, how rare I don't usually,
as you also make well, havethey dispensed with the eye nomenclacture?
It does look that way, butyou know they can't put an apple in
front of everything. I guess they'lluse it where it makes sense, or

(54:55):
maybe they have an idea for puttingthe eye into some other kinds of products
where relate to the eyes that maybewe'll have, you know, more eyes
in music related products and film relatedproducts, and let's eyes. When it
comes to actual hardware isn't exciting watching. Let's look at the music related products.
So the story goes that people aren'tdownloading musical tracks and we're buying them

(55:20):
now. In passing, I mightsay it may not be so much that
people are no longer interested in downloadingmusic. It may be that there is
not a lot of good music todownload among the current offerings, and they
just can't keep rebuying the latest remixof something or other. They want something
new, and we don't have theartistry there. So that's one reason not

(55:42):
to buy the musical tracks. Now. Maybe it is that people want to
have streaming music. I'm not oneof them, but I can see that
on an occasion having streaming music.So the question being here, if Apple
is going to have streaming music,are they going to improve the way things
are? They mean the iTunes radiois I have a Beatles mix for iTunes

(56:02):
Radio. I just think it's notso well done. You don't have any
real good selectivity in their standard mixof Beatles music, so I don't like
it. And maybe they'll have Beatstechnology, but would you drop the name
Beats? Doesn't Beats count for something? Where do we start with that?
Isn't it interesting? We've had theZean Low story, which is kind of

(56:24):
happening from over here. I don'tknow how much that's come across, but
it's a BBC DJ, one ofthe more popular ones. Bit of a
champion of new music for several years, so no going for a job at
Apple. In interviews in The Guardian, I think he talked enthusiastically about how
he wanted to reach the people,bring music to the people, about the
importance of curation and playlists and youknow, we talk about this one time,

(56:47):
the idea of you know when yougo and you can still find it
when you go into comic shops,say, and you go into the comic
shop and you meet the incredibly enthusiasticstaff and they're all really lovely and kind
of interesting and quirky, and they'reall in huge astic about things, and
they'll show you this, and haveyou read this graphic novel and old man,
you've got to read Viva Vendetta,which is kind of like, how
come I read viefa Vendetta before themovie came out? And a more wondergul

(57:09):
amazing human big and you know,that kind of enthusiasm, that kind of
infectious enthugiasms through which you learn newthings, or find new artists or encounter
new acts. Well, I don'tknow how it is on stateside TV,
but I know in the UK themusic shows have become more and more flaccid
and boring, more and more sortof like based on they're either they're either

(57:29):
they're trying to sell you stuff sohard that you're not buying, or that
they're trying to popularize some mediocre celebritythat you're not interested, or they're they're
trying to sort of do the democratidemocracy thing of look at us, We've
taken fifteen ordinary people and given thema one hit wonder. The models all
seem to be wrong. We don'thave things like Top of the Pops anymore.
We don't have these enthusiasts shows,we don't have Ready Steady Go,

(57:51):
and we do still Overhear have JulesHolland, which is fine. There's a
place, isn't there for enthugiasm aboutmusic, for enthugiasm in music discovery,
and this enthusiasm hasn't ever quite beenmanaged to make the transition from the human
to the machine. Ultimately, Ithink humans respond to other humans. I
mean We're wired that way. Soeven if the other human is a voice

(58:13):
on a radio, or a shumerLa like voice on online channel, or
somebody you speak to you on thephone, or person you bump into at
the shops, you just are automaticallywired to be receptive to what they're saying.
Even if you don't agree with it, you consider it in a different
way. So this idea of creativemusic and Beats was I think part of

(58:34):
the idea that Beats had for whatthey wanted to do. So will that
kind of a music streaming service withintelligence and a human element be more successful?
It could be. Now, myother problem with streaming services, and
I know I'm going on, Ireally should let you say something, but
the problem with streaming services I haveis the incredibly low artists royalties. Artists

(58:57):
go and get when you buy arecord, Artists get paid royalty. When
you stream a record, Artists getpaid a very tiny amount for the per
stream. It's the maximum they canget in the perfect world. Is always
less right with streaming And I kindof really believe that artists of any kind,
whether that's a writer or radio produceror a musician, should be able
to make a living of what theydo being pretty important to make a living

(59:22):
if you want to continue doing whatyou do unless you happen to come from
the landed gentry or some other richand privileged class. If we want to
have a continued diversity in the arts, we need to make sure that it's
possible for the arts to pay.Okay, so streaming music doesn't pay well,
human element could make it more excitingand could put new and ensuseissic recommendations

(59:42):
across fine, and it could alsosell records. Now, if we can
tire streaming music up with the world'schief alacante music destination online, which is
iTunes, then perhaps, just perhapswe can find a way that music fans
can find exciting new artists. Greatfor the music industry to suddenly exciting new
artists can make some money and sellrecords by them or whatever they call them

(01:00:05):
these days. You know, maybeI'm a bit dated using the phase records
am I stated to say records June? I think I probably am. I
think they still say records even thoughwe don't really have that many records anymore.
I think we still use term recordsnow. I believe it was Ringo
Starr who said the other day theyknew of one artist whose music had been
heard millions of times on Spotify,and he got to check for practically nothing.

(01:00:29):
Now we know Ringo doesn't have toworry about his next payday, But
for every Ringo star or Paul McCartneyor Mick Jagger, there's a million artists
who are lucky to pay the week'sgroceries with their music, and they deserve
more. They deserve a way tomake music. Do you know, I've
got a bit tongue tied. Ithink I have to put it this way.

(01:00:52):
There's an artist I know called toHe goes out as a name Bankodgaia,
and he I interviewed them once andhe sort of said, do you
know, Johnny, I've spent mywhole life, I dedicate myself to my
craft. I try to make musicsound better and better and better. And
he kind of resents downloads for that, because of course, we still don't
have the high fidility downloads that Ido hope will come one day, and

(01:01:13):
the ultra HD movies which I imaginewill come one day, and the massive
improvements in sound and video quality,which will I hope justify people wanting to
sort of buy these things. That'sactually better than what you can get on
DVD or record CD. But youknow, we still don't have those.
These artists have spent their lives tryingto make better art, and then at
the end of it, they putout their album after two years work and

(01:01:35):
a great deal of person is sufferingand all the energy that goes into creating
that work, and they sellers inthe shops and they sell five hundred copies,
and it gets pirated twenty five milliontimes, and it gets listened to
on streaming services another twenty five millionpound times and they come back with fifty
dollars. That's not really fair becausemillions of people have benefited from it.
So anything we can do which canfairly boost the exchange for the artists without

(01:01:57):
being punitive to the audience has tobe good. I mean, you know
that old saying. The olden dayswhen iTunes was introduced and it was all
about giving the honest people a chanceto remain honest. We had shifted online.
Our preferences had shifted online already atthat time. If we hadn't had
iTunes, we'd have all gone toNapsterra and every other file sharing service at
least in this way, some moneywas preserved, and some industry is preserved,

(01:02:21):
much as the industry resents it.But hey, the industry too many
lawyers, not enough talent. Thetalent is all in the music, and
the musicians, well, they werethe first to get sat and now they're
being exploited. Wouldn't it be niceto replace the music industry and enable the
artists to make a decent living.I think that was just something worth doing.
I think that would be worth seeing. Wouldn't it be great if a

(01:02:43):
new artist could make some music,and using the power of technology, people
who might be interested in that musicwere kind of identified, and then we're
told by human beings who could tellthem why it mattered about this music that
had just been made by this newor young artist who from their small shed
in the back of Wales or anywhere, and they did like it. And

(01:03:04):
suddenly this small artist from nowhere suddenlyhad twenty thousand fans and suddenly had ten
thousand dollars. Wouldn't that be lovely? Wouldn't that be great? Isn't it
how we could make the world.Can't we make the world a better place
by connecting it in an intelligent way? Where we actually look at what really
matters and ignore the stuff that doesn't. The lawyers that comprise the music industry,
they don't matter. But the peoplethat make the music, they really

(01:03:27):
matter. So anything we can doto improve their lot has to be worth
doing. Don't you think I thinkit does. I think that's really important.
I think ripping off the musical artistis part and parcels for the business.
And I'll tell you more about itour next segment. I'm Geene Steinberger.
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dot com. Slash radio that's technightoldot com slash radio, or subscribe on

(01:08:15):
iTunes. We have Johnny Evans,the Appleholic. I'm Gene Steinberger in the
Tech Night How Live and we haveJohnny for one more segment. So we're
talking about the plight of the musicalartists. Now, I was thinking here
back in the sixties, so youhad a lot of these record companies and
also in the fifties who really rippedoff their artists a lot more than now.

(01:08:38):
So you know, for example thatCreeden's Clearwater Revival had all their songs
done with the recording company called Fantasyand took all their money. They didn't
even allow John Fogerty to perform hisown songs that he wrote and produced for
years because of the lawsuits. Didmake a lot of money. And then

(01:08:58):
there was a book out years agofrom another artist to the sixties, Tommy
James, and he worked for arecord company that he did not realize was
a front for organized crime. Sonow Tommy James was a big artist in
the sixties. Of course, Ithink we're alone now in Crystal Blue,
Persuasion and all those songs. Andthey sold millions of copies, and he

(01:09:20):
wrote a lot of them himself.Talented young guy, and he should have
made millions, but he had tobeg for every dollar from his bosses at
Lori Records because they were cheating him. What could he do It was owned
by organized crime. Of course.You look at stuff like that, and
it has been part of the industryfor people to rip off musical artists.

(01:09:44):
I mean to this very day.You hear about lawsuits occasionally for royalties sly
in the family stone Slicestone living ina van for how many years now,
only just managed to win that courtcase a few weeks ago, after living
in a van in la for whatfour years? Four years? This guy
in the sixties before he really gotovercome by drug problems. In the sixties,

(01:10:05):
this guy and his group helped tocreate all sorts of styles that led
to disco and led to all sortsof interesting rhythm and blues related sounds,
all coming out of slying the familystone. And this guy hadn't taken substances
that really hurt him, made himunreliable. Who knows where he could have

(01:10:28):
gone. But as you say,he was ripped off by his record company
who hasn't been But now, isn'tthat the thing about the online world though,
it's a great equalizer where somebody canget online a band at indie band,
they don't have to be part ofa record label to get their music
and items or other music services.If they can build a following on Facebook,

(01:10:50):
Twitter, Pinterest, whatever, theycould gain a pretty good income from
music. They could, you know, for example, I can put myself
into this mindset, and my mindsetthere might be But I'm a musician.
I'm not a social media engineer.I'm not an SEO expert. I'm not
good at building online communities. Ididn't sign up to do music so that

(01:11:13):
I can end up spending hours,endless hours on chat groups and forums or
going around posting links here, thereand everywhere. I just want to make
music. And so there's still goingto be a role for people to help
curate, popularize, raise, profileand just generally help artists and acts.
There'll always be that role. Youknow, each to their own. As
a team, we can usually achievea lot more than any sort of one

(01:11:35):
man army ever can. Quite clearlythere is a need for supporting industry around
every musical artist. There's also thedifference of you know, if you've got
more money to spend, you canmake it quicker. In the online world,
just like anywhere else, there isI think more potential, and there
is a possibility for small artists tocome out of nowhere in the online world,

(01:11:59):
or at least be not that receivea great deal of evidence like that
in the modern music industry, realizingthat opportunity seems to have been a bit
challenging somehow. And I don't know, because I've watched and hoped, and
you know, I've seen some wonderfulbands come through Slaves or Lola Cult or
you know, up and coming bandsfrom like round here who've merged quite a

(01:12:19):
lot of work online. Certainly,I do believe that a lot of acts
have managed to achieve quite a lotof great things online. Then you have
the sort of radio head experience wherean already defined entity was able to harness
online processes with in rainbows and reallykind of you know, put a big
stamp down on how things have changed, but the rest of the relative inequality

(01:12:46):
continues in that, you know,the more support you have, the more
likely you have online or offline tomake it. That has always been true,
and it's as true online. It'sjust the online. At least you've
got a chance. At least you'vegot a chance, and that's good,
and anything that Apple may do withtheir sort of idea to increase the chance
for those independent artists would be great. My concern there though, is that

(01:13:11):
I can still remember when iTunes launchedin the UK and the deals that Apple
were offering independent labels at that time. We're not great and that took a
little bit of agitation before things improvethere. So you know, you can't
help but be concerned that perhaps theidea will favor the existing corporations rather than
really doing anything revolutionary. But wecan live in hope. I do live

(01:13:33):
in hope on that, you know, because if we can add a human
touch to music curation and the onlineworld, that we can make music a
much more interesting and exciting place.And again, if we can enable some
fantastic bands, some fantastic musicians,some of the poets and seers and speakers
of this generation's worries and concerns andwhat they see. If we can empower

(01:13:55):
a few of the world's poets toarticulate our reality in that way we also
respond to when we hear it inmusic, then we're doing something good.
Maybe one way of doing it,the Great equalizer would be safe for Apple
to add an optional special publicity developmentservice where you give away another ten percent

(01:14:15):
of your royalties and it covers afixed price that you get these extra services,
and you pay in the basis ofwhat you sell. Anybody can get
these services. They're available, butif you sell a million copies, you
pay more than if you sell,you know, ten thousand copies or five
copies. That would be the greatequalizer. You pay as you go.

(01:14:38):
But you're all entitled to the samelevel of service. Conduct Facebook ads.
But I just made it up.I have no idea. I'm not a
musical artist. My wife is Johnny. Just quickly, because we have about
a minute and a half left.What is your musical connection, oh,
musical connection to I like music quitea lot. I've been a band manager.

(01:15:03):
I've been a bouncer, I've beena merchandise man. I've been a
roadie. I've been I've worked inclubs. I did all things in my
twenties, most of this a littlein my thirties, so yeah, I
was doing music things then. I'vealways loved music. It's really important to
me. Music's the stuff that getsyou through the tough times. Music's the

(01:15:24):
stuff where you find the things thatmatter. Music's the echo of your soul,
and music's the place where you layahead at the end of the day.
It's just music's really important to me. I love it, always have
since I was, you know,old enough to listen to it. You
know. I can still remember realto real tapes, yeah, in the
late sixties, and I can stillremember Super eight, you know. But

(01:15:47):
it wasn't the delivery mechanism. Itnever has been. It's the sounds.
Give us one more sound telling ushow we can find more information about the
things Johnny Evans does. I wouldlove it if people, you know,
down to my blog on Computer Worldfrom time to time, which is of
course at ww dot computerworld dot com, and if you sort of look down
the page a little bit, you'llsee bloggers, and I might be one

(01:16:10):
of those bloggers and it's Johnny Evans, and if you sort of there,
you might find me, and maybeyou'll find wherever it is. I felt
like ranting about that day. Itry to provide decent, macronated news,
views and entertainment, and I dohope that if you do drop over there,
you enjoy it. Johnny Evans,thanks for joining us on the Tech
Night Our Live. Thanks for theopportunity, Jean, I'm bad we could
hook up this time independently leading theway for the nation, compelling talk for

(01:16:42):
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(01:20:53):
next? You never know when you'relistening to the Tech Night Owl Live with
Jeans Steinberg. So the Moody Bluesyears ago had a song called ride My

(01:21:14):
Seesaw, And I'm going to askBrian Chaffan will he ride an Apple car
or an Eye car or whatever Applemight call it? An ivan, an
Apple van at Apple motorcycle. Youknow, I saw the movie Blues in
like nineteen ninety three thereabouts, andthey were still awesome. Nineteen ninety three,
yeah thereabouts. Yeah, it wasyou know, well past their heyday

(01:21:38):
and they were just fantastic musicians.It was a great show. I'd love
to see him again. Nonetheless,I think we're going to see an Apple
car. Actually, I am onehundred percent that Apple is developing a car,
and I am close to one hundredpercent that Apple will that this is
a product that will ship and we'llsee the light of day. Why do

(01:22:00):
you think that because the Wall StreetJournal sets up No, I'm actually going
to take a little bit of creditfor this story, not all of it,
but a little bit. Business Insidergot it kicked off with an email
from someone claiming to be an Appleemployee who said that his group was working
on something to quote give Tesla arun for its money. Now, where

(01:22:24):
I come in is that I hadbeen working on that story for close to
two weeks already, and I hadvery specific information that Apple was hiring people
from Tesla, the kind of peoplethat you only hire if you're going to
make a car. So, inother words, the kind of skill sets
and experience and abilities that don't reallylend them you wouldn't pay for unless you

(01:22:50):
wanted to build a car. Sowouldn't be maybe building some prototypes to test
some kind of dashboard or infotainment system. It has to be the whole mcgilla.
Likely to be the whole mcgillow.Yes, likely, I don't want
I don't want to get into specificsat all. But I was looking for

(01:23:11):
another pe. I was actually lookingfor something else that I could hang my
story on. And then Business InsiderBB to the punch with their with their
letter from an Apple employee, soI at that point I yepped their article.
And that was when the Wall StreetJournal and Reuter's and the Financial Times
of London started pouring their investigative talentsand resources into finding out more clarify something

(01:23:36):
for me here, Yes, howdoes an Apple employee have the courage to
say anything at always. Just thehint about Tesla, is that something that
marketing maybe convince them to do tocreate expectations. Well, you know,
that's that's a good question. Butif you look at let's actually look at

(01:24:00):
how Apple does these does these newprojects, they tend to be really small
teams. They tend to be workingin black labs where you know, like
products can't leave the lab unless they'redraped in black cloth. I know people
that work with products under those circumstances, and it's a security tends to be

(01:24:25):
successfully tight with that. But theWall Street Journal reported on Friday, that
would be Friday, a week ago, that Apple has a thousand member team
working on this car. Now that'sa lot of people. That's a lot
of potential leaks because you not onlyhave, of course those thousand people,

(01:24:47):
you have their boyfriend's girlfriends, spouse'sbest friends that would never ever tell a
soulo I promise you know, peakys where hope to die. And it
really was probably only a matter oftime before this story leaked one way or
the other. And it's even possiblethat that started off as a controlled leak.

(01:25:10):
I certainly think that the information thatwent to the Wall Street Journal was
a controlled leak. That's the thinghere about the Wall Street Journal. Some
people say we should not trust theWall Street Journal since Rupert Murdoch bought it,
But they still have some pretty skilledreporters there who are doing a really
solid work. Well, yeah,of course, you know your opinion on
newscorps band. Rupert Murdoch may wellhinge on your politics. I think,

(01:25:38):
though, that when it comes tobusiness reporting that the Wall Street Journal still
does a very good job. AndI don't generally care for Murdoch's politics.
Okay, so take that, youknow, take that however you want it.
All right, So, if Appleis designing a car, that does
not mean they will produce a car. It means they're designing car. Well

(01:26:01):
yeah, so Apple. So here'shere's what Apple's track record is. Very
few products or services or ideas orfeatures get said yes to. Apple's strength
is saying no. And that waslike especially the case under Steve Jobs.
I think that Steve Jobs was betterthan anyone else on the planet at saying

(01:26:24):
no to product ideas. And theflip side of that, though, is
that we also know that once aproduct reaches a certain stage of development.
At Apple, it almost always seesthe light of day, So very few
products get to that point. Butonce they do get that point, they're

(01:26:45):
almost always going to be going tobe released. And I think that what
we have with the car here isthat Apple has that that Apple has identified
this as a market right for disruption, and it believes it has what it
needs to do to enter that marketand therefore disrupt it. And I think

(01:27:09):
at this point there's there's there areso many people involved with this that I
don't think Apple is going to putthat kind of investment into a new product
unless it is confident that it willship. All right, So we assume
then it's an electric car, right, That's what I assume. Yes,

(01:27:30):
there's lots of stories out there thatit's going to be a self driving car
based on these minivans that have beenseen around the Bay Area. I think
that people are putting the horse horsebefore the cart. I think that Apple
is going to release an electric carfirst while it works on autonomous capabilities,
because I mean, we're years evenGoogle, who has the pre medium the

(01:27:53):
premiere head start on autonomous vehicles,even Google is still many years away from
having a vehicle that can operate underall circumstances. Now, when we look
at the Tesla, we're talking aboutan expensive luxury car. It starts to
sixty nine nine hundred dollars. Yes, Tesla is working on something which will

(01:28:15):
be in the thirty to forty thousanddollars range. That's maybe a couple of
years out, all right. Soif Apple puts out a car, the
first thing is when will it beready for production? The second thing is
how is it going to be sold? Does Apple now build an Apple store
that's ten times larger or fifty timeslarger to manage motor vehicles? And then

(01:28:38):
this is many questions where do theyhit the market? Does it start as
a luxury car, does it startas something that would be like a near
luxury thirty forty thousand dollars car.Where does Apple go in other words,
do they follow the Tesla playbook orwhat? Those are all great questions.
So Tesla's stated goal is to enterthe is to reach the entry level of

(01:29:05):
the market eventually. And Elon Musk, who I think is a genius,
he realized that the best way tomake a profitable car company a niche profitable,
profitable car company was to start atthe high end and let the high
end actually pay for the development's lowend. So as you as you just

(01:29:28):
said, and they started like Idon't know the exact starting price, but
you said sixty nine, so let'sgo for that. They started fifteen Okay,
fair enough, And they released thenanother model that was in the what
thirty to forty thousand dollars range that'scoming but still a couple of years hence
at least, Yeah, and thenafter that there's supposed to be a model
that's going to be even less expensive. So I don't know what where Apple

(01:29:53):
would price a vehicle, but wedo know that Apple tends to price,
tends to compete at the high endof any markets that are inners. So
therefore they've been competing with Tesla andtherefore indirectly with BMW, Mercedes, Aldi,
Lexus, Cadillac, etc. Let'sdo our break and then we're going

(01:30:14):
to try to figure this out andsee where Apple mica will Apple produce a
car? Well, it looks like, according to Brian Chaffan with the mac
Observer, there might be a lockon it if things go well. I'm
Gene Steinberg, you're in the technight Outlive independently leading the way for the

(01:30:39):
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(01:35:11):
So, we have Brian Schaffman ofthe Mac observer. I'm Jeene Steinberger in
the Tech nine How Live, andBrian is telling us he thinks Apple having
committed a thousand people for this product, this project Titan, as Wall Street
Journal calls it, They're going toproduce a car. So you assume then
that this will be something that competesat the high end the Mercedes S class,

(01:35:35):
the BMW seven, the Tesla models, that kind of thing. That's
the first model. Well, Ihave zero color or information on precisely what
kind of car Apple is working todevelop. All I know is where Apple
is how Apple usually does business,and Apple usually does business at the high

(01:35:55):
end of its markets, where itcan make a lot of profit per devisor
in this case, per vehicle.And it really does stand the reason that
Apple would do something along those linesat the very least to start off with.
But that said, I think,you know, one of the things
that drives you on Musk is makingelectric vehicles usable for the mainstream because it's

(01:36:23):
better for the planet. And TimCook is very concerned about the environment as
well. So you know, isApple maybe the company that could actually mainstream
electric vehicles and could Apple actually youknow, make an electric vehicle for say
twenty grand, which would be youknow what, the the mid level of

(01:36:45):
the market. Would you say,you can still buy the price for a
car. This may not mean anything. The average price for a car is
about thirty one and a half thousanddollars, and that takes you to a
well equipped mid sized car such asa Honda Accord, Kia Optima of that
kind of thing, but not thebasic model which is maybe twenty two thousand
dollars, but the stuff with allthe bells and whistles and the navigation,

(01:37:10):
the fancy sound system, et cetera. Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
That makes sense. So yeah,what Apple dipped much below that?
I don't know. I kind ofI kind of doubt it. You know,
here's here's an interesting thing. Aninteresting thing happened this week, which
is that I think he is theformer CEO of GM. I don't have

(01:37:30):
his name off the tip of mytip of my tongue, but he said
that Apple. You know, Appleis crazy if it wants to enter the
car market. It's a low marginbusiness. If I was an Apple shareholder,
I would be concerned about this.You know, what does Apple know
about cars? People who in theyou know, people outside of the industry

(01:37:51):
don't understand how hard it is.These are all paraphrases, by the way.
Yeah, we're hearing this by peoplein the auto industry. Yeah,
some people saying, look about fashioningmetal and all this other stuff, and
Apple just makes iPhones. But wealso have to think of the fact that,
you know, they've been building massproduced cars since the nineteen o eight

(01:38:12):
Ford Model T, so the techniquesare pretty standard now. I mean,
cars have more bells and whistles now, more electronics, more sophisticated suspensions than
they have them, but a lotof the basics in a car haven't changed
that much. Yeahs are building acar, probably have advanced more robotic stuff
in there, but really haven't changed. You got to figure that Apple is

(01:38:35):
probably like, okay, well,you know, maybe maybe we'll do like
four wheels. We'll probably have likea steering wheel and maybe some maybe some
drive shafts. You know, thereare a lot of aspects of cars that
are that are understood, but Appleknows about developing new products. And the
thing is what this guy from GMwas saying, this former CEO of GM

(01:39:00):
is one hundred percent exactly what weheard from players within the cell phone industry.
When Apple announced the iPhone, Yeah, they having a clue, how
could they build a smartphone in aninstant? Yeah, whereas we've been to
this market try for years. Butthey don't realize that Apple might have been
doing this for years because they've gotpeople on their staff who've worked in the

(01:39:25):
auto industry, and we don't knowthis product or this project Titan started yesterday.
It may be the outgrowth of somethingthat's been going for several years.
Well, all right, so firstof all, what people said back when
the iPhone was announced was that,you know, Apple doesn't know anything about
cell phones. It's a low marginbusiness. Why would Apple want to enter
a low margin business? Again,exactly what this guy said, which illustrates

(01:39:49):
how ripe for disruption the auto industryis because the players, the entrenched players
within that market, can only seeone way of doing things. And those
are the markets that Apple enters,is those markets where they're just you know,
ripe for disruption, they're ripe forthe plucking. And it's hysterical to

(01:40:11):
see that same sort of knee jerkcommentary that precisely echoes what people said about
cell phones and smartphones so quickly andyou hear we're getting it. As for
when the project started, I'm goingto guess it started about two years ago,
which is when we first heard thatthe faintest rumor that Apple was working

(01:40:35):
on a car, and it waspretty universally dismissed at the time. But
I don't think, I mean,I think this is going to be a
Tim Cook product. I don't thinkthis is something that Steve Jobs was involved
with. All right, So ifit started two years ago, how long
does it actually take to produce workingprototypes? And this is something where it's

(01:40:58):
not going to be easy to keepthis thing a secret. It's not like
it's something in your pocket. You'regoing to start motoring these things around town
in different cities to test out suspension, handling and everything else. So it's
not going to take long for peopleto know what's going on. Well,
you know, you got to figureApple's going to do what it did with
the iPhone, which is it startedincluding the iPhone guts for new models in

(01:41:26):
larger casings and previous generation casings justto you know, to test out the
electronics. You can't do that witha car. Yeah, Well, you
can test out suspension, you canput the suspension, your warning to work
on into a minivan for instance.Probably wouldn't use a minivan, mind you,
but you know, there's a lotof things that they can test out
in existing cars. But yeah,you're it will probably come to light a

(01:41:49):
little bit sooner. And this,just like the Apple Watch was announced earlier,
I would assume that that Apple wouldend up announcing this ahead of time.
You know, they're going to haveregular hurdles to deal with. They're
going to have, as you mentioned, you know, how are they going
to sell it in the United Statesalone? The state to state differences between

(01:42:11):
how cars can be sold, andthis is almost always based on the strength
and the wealth of the auto dealersin that state. It's just this patchwork
of regulations on how a car couldbe sold. Tesla has been struggling with
that itself because it's been selling carsdirectly. Wouldn't surprise me if Apple did
the same thing. For what that'sworth, We're certainly not going to see

(01:42:33):
Apple cars in the sitting in theApple stores. So basically, the large
car dealer chains out there are notgoing to have an Apple dealership because Apple
will sell it directly. Well,you know, Apple could Apple could sell

(01:42:54):
licenses to those dealerships. That couldhappen. It could totally have you know,
Apple could sort of work with youknow, another interesting thing is that
that Tesla. I believe that Teslawill only be helped by Apple entering this
market. You know, I don'tthink that Apple is going to put teslau

(01:43:14):
to business. I think that thatApple is going to help Tesla and that
the two of them are going torip up a lot of the rest of
the auto industry. So, youknow, the two could well be friends
in this, and we we've Ithink you and I have talked about the
fact that Elon Musk and Tim Cookhave have been known to have meetings.
Well, that's the other question heretoo. Would Apple have done better to

(01:43:38):
buy Tesla and start from scratch?Hmm, probably not no, because this
is Apple, Apple Apple, youknow. So the people that are in
charge of this, according to theWall Street Journal, the people who are
running this group are iPhone managers.And this is something that Dave Hamilton pointed

(01:44:00):
out to me in a private conversation. So I want to give credit words
due, but you might think toyourself, well, what do iPhone people
know about building a car? Theyprobably didn't know a lot. But what
they do know is Apple, andthey know the Apple way of doing things.
And by having these iPhone people thatknow the Apple way developing this car,

(01:44:21):
it's going to end up being anApple car, just like having Mac
people build a smartphone made that smartphonean Apple product. Yeah. I realized,
of course that the iPhones are alittle bit more closely related to max
than a car is to an iPhone. But they both have software in common,

(01:44:42):
and they both have the fact thatthey need a user interface in common.
And in fact, I think there'sa lot more in common between these
two product lines than one might think, especially in the modern age. Well,
looking at the info, TAM andsystem of a car, there's a
lot there. But I think thequestion that I would ask is what would

(01:45:03):
Apple want to do with regard todisrupting the car market. And we have
a lot more questions to ask hereas we speculate about the Apple car.
With Brian Schaffin of the mac Observer, I'm Gene Steinberger in the Tech nine
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to happen next. And now here'sGene Steinberg. Folks, please don't forget

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to go to plus dot tech nightoudot com, p L e U S
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(01:48:34):
Let's continue with Brian Chaffman of Themac Observer talking about the prospects for an
applecar. Now, they different quotesfrom Jonathan Ive and other people about how
bad these cars are. You've heardabout that, right, sure, Okay,
so we know when Apple disparages anindustry. There's evidence there Apple wants

(01:48:58):
to anger that industry. So let'stake a look at it. So we
have the Tesla, which obviously isthe first electric car that basically can be
used like a regular car. Youhave enough range with the batteries to go
in normal distance. If they finallyget enough charging stations. Eventually that means

(01:49:18):
a lot. But they're using adirect sales model. How does Apple upturn
the auto industry? Is it stilldirect sales? That's only part of it.
The car buying experience is just asingular act, although if you go
from dealer to dealer you might haveto repeat it a few times. It's

(01:49:40):
a very annoying act. But doesrefining the car sales process, which really
needs some refining and fixing. Isthat enough? What does Apple do with
the car itself to revolutionize the market. Well, you know, those are
a great question. So does Applethink it can do something with batteries?
Maybe? Just on Thursday this week, Apple was sued by a company called

(01:50:03):
A one two three. They area battery company, and they had a
team, a development team working onsuper secret projects. And Apple snaked the
head of that team, and thenhe turned around and helped snake the rest
of the employees on that team.And now A one two three is suing
Apple because it accusing the company ofstealing its proprietary technologies. So does Apple

(01:50:28):
think it has something to do thatit can do with batteries? Can it
maybe build off of what Tesla hasreleased? Royalty free to the world.
Does Apple think that it could dosomething with performance? Probably not, But
does Apple think that it can thatit has a way of manufacturing cars where
it can actually save a lot ofmoney, that's actually a possibility. Can

(01:50:50):
Apple do something with the with theway you interact with your the ergonomics of
the controls on a car. Absolutely, I'd been and how many cars have
you sat in where you just sayto yourself, well, this is perfectly
designed for me to actually use thedashboards. Well, I'll give you an
example of this. I have arelative who has a Mercedes, a very
expensive one way way beyond my budget, and there's no way for normal people

(01:51:15):
to get into that car with thatfamiliarity with the infotainment system on a Mercedes
Benz and master it in ten minutesand an hour without reading a thick,
thick manual. Now I can figureit out because I'm used to gadgets,
But people who aren't used to gadgets, it's a mess, it's a nightmare.
A lot of these navigation systems arebadly done. We remember the infamous

(01:51:39):
I drive from BMW A disaster,a nightmare. So yeah, I can
see in that one area alone areasthat can be improved. But the other
thing is safety, car safety.Sure, Apple is very much into security
and recycling and everything. Do theydo something to overhaul this safety aspect of

(01:52:00):
the motor vehicle? Can they dosomething with voice interaction that actually works?
Can they do something with just thesecurity on how it's locked and how you
interact with that security. There's Ithink there's a lot of stuff that Apple
could do there. In general,Apple's philosophy has been that it won't enter
a market unless it can control oneor two key technologies that give it a

(01:52:24):
competitive advantage. And I have noidea how that might apply to the auto
industry, right. I don't knowwhat the heck Apple could control with its
cards that it would give it acompetitive advantage that no one could no one

(01:52:45):
else could quickly copy. But unlessApple has abandoned that ideal, it exists.
And there is something that Apple isworking on. And you know those
those those men and women are reallysmart. So if they've been working on
this for two years, do weassume it's going to take five years to

(01:53:05):
bring something to market? Well?See John Martilaro, my colleague John Martinlaro
at The mac Observer he thinks it'sI think he's like seven to ten years
is what he thinks. I personallythink that we could see it in four
to five. That's really just agut instinct. Apple does tend to move

(01:53:26):
really really fast when it wants to. The iPod was like start to finish
nine months, just ridiculous, especiallyat that time. And yeah, so
you know it's four to five yearsfrom now, three to five years from
now, really that would that wouldmean you know, a five to eight

(01:53:46):
year development time. And I thinkthat's something that Apple could do. Tesla
certainly did it, so Apple Carwould premiere in twenty twenty. I would
even say by twenty twenty. Allright, Well, I'm getting on in
years here, so I have tothink will I be able to drive?
I hope so, Gene, II'd like to see you behind behind the

(01:54:09):
behind the wheel of one how's that? I would like to see me have
the money to go behind the wheelof one of those vehicles. Wait,
fair enough, it could be pricey. I don't know, I don't know.
I'm just I'm excited by this.This is it's it's an interesting set
of rumors. There is so youknow, we also know By the way,
we know that Apple is hired thehead of GM's independent advanced research company.

(01:54:35):
We know that Apple has been talkingto and Gosh, I can't remember
their name. There's a small companyin Europe that is the fox con of
the auto industry. They make wellexcept for that they make high end cars
for specialized brands. But they're acontract manufacturer of automobiles. But so we

(01:54:59):
know that Apple has had meetings withthem. We know about this this uh
person from GM that Apple hired.We also know that the Apple hired Mark
Newsom. Do you remember him.He's a world class designer, very famous
in the design world. He's donefurniture, he's done He's got his own
line of watches. He's uh,he's done the airplane design. I think

(01:55:21):
he actually sits on it, likelike he's technically the head of Quanta's passenger
services or something to that effect.Ah, it's the Apple plane or it's
the Apple hovercar. Well, Ilike that. The other thing that he
does, though, that he hasdone, is he's designed cars. He

(01:55:42):
did some concept car work for Fordback in the nineties, not mitally,
that was a long time ago,but it's something he has experienced with and
he's Johnny Ives, one of JohnnyIves's best friends. So we found out
that Apple had hired him for quoteunquote special projects. We assume it was
related to the watch. That's whatwe thought at the time. Yeah,
that's what I thought. That's absolutelywhat I thought. And it was the

(01:56:04):
Wall Street Journal that pointed out thathe's got this car. He that he
did. I could see him havingbeen brought on to possibly even head the
car design work for Johnny. Johnnycan't do everything. And I look at
it this way too. Apple,if it's going to grow, has to

(01:56:29):
continue looking at new markets, butnot too many new markets. So I
don't think there's going to be aTV. I think that's a highly saturated
market. Maybe Apple will do somemore things with Apple TV. But a
car, that's fascinating because when youlook at cars today, they're all pretty
much the same, except for somehaving more complicated infotement systems. A car

(01:56:54):
is a car, you know.I realized someone with a Ferrari will say,
I have no idea what I'm talkingabout, But I've driven a lot
of cars, from the cheapest andthe most expensive, and you know,
there are fundamental things about a carthat aren't changed. But we'll go into
a little bit more of this beforewe get to other topics. Our guest
is Brian Schaffan of the mac Observer. If you go to mac observer dot

(01:57:15):
com you find more of their cuttingedge commentary. Remember Brian started this conversation
before some other people. I'm JeeneSteinberg. You're in the technight Outlive.
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We'd like to hear from you.If you have a comment or question about
the Tech Night Owl Live, pleasesend it to News at technightowl dot com.
That's news at technightowl dot com.If you'd like to discuss today's show
with fellow night owl's, visit ourcommunity forums at forum dot technightowl dot com.
That's forum dot technightowl dot com.Brian Schaffan of the mac Observer all

(02:02:11):
about the applecar and not the Applehovercar. Anything else to add before we
move on? Yeah, there's aBloomberg reported on Thursday, and I'm quoting
here from Bloomberg as we speak here, Apple Incorporated, which has been working
secretly on a car, is pushingits team to begin production of an electric
vehicle as early as twenty twenty,people with knowledge of the matter set So

(02:02:34):
there you have it, starting productionin twenty twenty. I guess that would
be a twenty twenty one release,so that would be five to six years
from now. All right, Well, this is not something that's going to
happen overnight. I assume here thatApple would be much much closer to having
this ready before they officially announced anything. Yoh yeah, let's move on.

(02:02:54):
Okay, Apple watch Apple in April, love it on time. In April,
You're going to buy the eighteen carrotGold version for forty eight hundred dollars.
No, not even a little bit. I won't buy the gold version.
I won't. I would not buythe Gold Watch, the gold Apple
Watch. You're telling us the truthhere. Absolutely, I'm not going to

(02:03:15):
mortgage everything just to buy it.No. I not only would not buy
it, I would not recommend anyonebuy it. Now, this is knowing
what we know today, which isn'teverything you know. We don't know the
price. We don't know what Apple'supgrade policy will be, if it has
one. We don't know what theprice will be compared to the price of

(02:03:39):
gold. Here's the problem. I'mexpecting the Apple Watch Edition, that's the
name of the gold version of thisdevice, to sell for five grand.
I don't think that five grand istoo much for a watch per se.
Now, it's subjective to every singleperson, and I get that I don't.
But my point is, don't havea philosophical objection to paying five thousand

(02:04:02):
dollars for a watch, especially whenit's gold. The problem is that when
you buy a mechanical watch for fivethousand dollars, that's maybe it's gold.
Actually, you can't really buy amechanical watch for five thousand dollars. It's
gold. Those were going to startat ten to twenty. But when you
buy one of those, it's onlygoing to increase in value as time goes

(02:04:25):
on. And that's because if youtake kid care of it, that watch
will be just as useful one hundredyears samaal as it is today. Certainly
four or fifty years from ow withan Apple Watch, the features and capabilities
of this device will be obsolete withinthree years, four years, two years,

(02:04:51):
five years, you know, relativelysoon. So spending five grand on
something that you're going to have atwo to five year useful lifespan out of,
just because especially this first generation,the first generation is going to be
the least capable Apple Watch ever made. Right, I cannot, I cannot

(02:05:15):
continence that I cannot. Okay,this is the problem future proofing. So
how does Apple future proof work?Can they? Well, you know,
Apple could offer the kind of tradein value that it is hard to pass
up. Kind of doubt that wouldhappen, and Apple could just could make

(02:05:41):
these things upgradeable. You know,you've got to figure that the Apple Watch
is only going to get slimmer andsmaller as time goes on. I think
the second version of the Apple Watchis going to be you know, like
you've often seen thirty percent thickness decreaseson the iPhone for a model, especially

(02:06:04):
those first few years. And Ithink that you know, the Apple's going
to figure out a lot in thenext year, and that the next version
of the Apple Watch is going tobe significantly smaller. So could you take
those innerds and fit them into theolder, larger Apple Watch. Probably if
Apple so you know, wanted todesign it that way, so you know

(02:06:25):
that that's a possibility. But Idon't even see I mean, I don't
even see how I don't even seehow that would work. It's just if
and a five thousand dollars Apple Watchhas forty five hundred dollars of gold in
it, that would probably be okaybecause you can still get your gold value
out of it and walk around withyour gold Apple Watch until you're righty for

(02:06:49):
the next one. But if it'smore like it has two thousand dollars worth
of gold, which would be alot of gold. It's like announce and
a half of gold, then you'repaying three thousand dollars for something that is
going to have a markedly steep usabilitycurve, and I just like I said,

(02:07:11):
I can't connest it. Now.I know that there are people,
they're very wealthy people out there whowill not care about that. Are there
are going to be people that willbuy the gold Apple Watch. In fact,
it's mere. It's mere. Lackof long term use may make it
even more popular in some circles becauseit will become another kind of conspicuous consumption.
I'm so wealthy, I can buythis and I don't even care that

(02:07:32):
I'm not going to want it intwo years. Well, easy for them
to say, yeah, But ifyou could make the thing updateable, pop
in a new module, and maybegive it a three to five year lifespan,
it's always current for one hundred andfifty one hundred and seventy five dollars
for the guts, wouldn't that makesense if it could be done. Absolutely,

(02:07:56):
Yeah, if it could be done, that is I mean you're talking
about you're talking about adding complexity tothe development process, just orders a magnitude
of complexity. Apple could do it. If anyone can do it, Apple
can. Apple's got more money thananybody. But I don't know, Like

(02:08:16):
I said, I wouldn't encourage Ilove I can't wait to get my hands
on an Apple Watch. I lovewhat we've seen of this device. I'm
so excited about it. I lovewatches. We've talked about that, but
I wouldn't encourage anyone to buy anythingother than the Apple Watch Sport and the
Apple Watch, which is the stainlessdeal version. Certainly I wouldn't buy the

(02:08:39):
expensive one, even if I couldafford it. Yeah, even if I
could afford it, I wouldn't buyit. But you know what, there's
another thing there, Gina. Idon't particularly my skin doesn't work with gold.
I love gold, but I don'tlook good with gold, so that
certainly plays a part in my notcaring for it. Yes, okay,

(02:09:01):
I guess we're going to see I'massuming we'll have some kind of announcement media
event late March early April, andthen they'll tell us the things we didn't
know about the Apple Watch. Ithink the other problem will be not just
the future proofing problem, but thebattery problem. Of course, if you
replace the module, you replace thebattery, but having the battery only lasts

(02:09:22):
a day or so. I thinkthat's going to be a serious problem for
some. It will be a seriousproblem. For some it absolutely will be,
and so I look forward to seeingwhat Apple's going to do with that.
We were not what we were toldwhen it was announced, and said
Timber is that it's designed to work. It's designed to be charged overnight after

(02:09:48):
working during the day. And Ican imagine myself going on a camping trip,
but only vaguely because I don't thinkI've been on a camping trip in
fifty years. But I imagine goingon a camping trip and I don't have
a generator nearby, and I havemy Apple Watch, and then the battery
goes down, and that's kind ofa bummer. So you know, I

(02:10:09):
understand the daily charging routine with asmartphone for a watch. We've got Brian
Schaffin at the mac observer with us. I'm Jeene Steinberg. You're in the
Tech nightow Live independently leading the wayfor the nation, compelling talk for every

(02:10:31):
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effective. You're listening to the TechNIGHTIL Line with Gdi Steinberg. You never

(02:14:48):
know what's going to happen. Next, we have Brian Chaffan of the mac
Observer. I'm Jeane Steinberg in theTech Night al Live. Do you think
maybe when Apple does the official announcementof the actual release state in the final

(02:15:11):
prices of Apple Watch, Brian Schaffin, do you think they might be able
to give us more optimistic news aboutbattery life. Maybe you would think at
the very least that Apple would haveprimed us for delighted surprise and not disappointment.
So we can only hope. Butyou know, three to five months

(02:15:35):
is not you know, it's definitelytime to tweak stuff. It's definitely time
to eke out, you know,every bit of prefermance per million hours you
can out of every single aspect ofit. But it's not that much time.
It's not a whole lot of time, you know, like there hasn't
been a revolution in batteries in thelast six months, but there is always

(02:15:58):
a proud I don't know, we'llhave to see. I this is the
kind of thing that that I don'tspend too much time worrying about because we
just don't know enough and I wantto know more before I get to for
clumped about it. Well, theother issue would be in the future,
well, Apple, make this thinga totally independent device, not tethered to

(02:16:22):
a iPhone, because, like it'swith other smartphones and smart watches, they're
just successories. If you forget youriPhone, what does your I Watch your
Apple Watch do? But who forgetsOkay, you have a very very good
point philosophically speaking. My question tothat, though, is who forgets their

(02:16:43):
iPhone? Who's got their watch anddoesn't have their iPhone? And it's not
like the thing won't work without youriPhone, it's just there's some things that
it won't do without your iPhone.I don't think it's going to give you
your your text messages without your iPhone. Well, okay, boohoo, you
forgot your phone. You wouldn't havehad that anyway. But there are plenty
of things that the Apple Watch willdo without an iPhone, lots of things.

(02:17:07):
We just don't know what they allare yet. Other than telling time,
what can I do well? Itcan give you information about okay,
so there has some fitness track features. Now we also learned from again I
think the Wall Street Journal this lastweek, that the Apple Watch was originally
envisioned as a health tracking device,so it's going to be measuring all kinds

(02:17:31):
of things about our health. WhatApple found is that that the data from
some of those features was too erratic. They couldn't get consistent data. People
with harry arms didn't give consistent data, people with really dry skin didn't give
consistent data. And because of thelack of precision, Apple abandoned that idea

(02:17:58):
and started looking at other other waysto make a wearable computing a reality.
And what we have now, whatwe're expecting is is a device that does
a lot of fitness tracking. Youknow, measure your pulse. It will
obviously do your you know, you'reyou're step tracking and stair tracking and things
like that. It will communicate withthat. There's a company that announced a

(02:18:22):
glucose monitor that fits around your abdomenthat reports to the Apple Phone, reports
to the Apple Watch, so thatyou can get like, I think a
five minute read out on your gluecoselevel. So that's good for diabetics.
So in addition to that, youknow, it's going to have contacts,
it's going to have uh I thinksome music. I don't know how much

(02:18:45):
music it can play without the iPhone. And matter of fact, maybe that's
one of the things that it won'tdo without an iPhone. There will be
your you know, calendars, uhnotes, any kind of app that you're
actually installing. You know, it'sit's going to The thing that it's not
going to be doing is getting informationfrom your iPhone and the things that that

(02:19:07):
it will just rely on it itwill still do, but hopefully in a
few years it'll do everything. Yeah, yeah, hopefully, I think that.
I think that at some point itwill. There's a lot of miniaturization
that it will have to take place. A lot of radio miniaturization. It
will have to take place, youknow, it would have the There's it's
one thing to have a Wi Fitransmitter in something as small as the Apple

(02:19:33):
Watch. It's another thing to havea cellular transmitter ce cellular radio and something
that small, you know, butthat will come eventually. Its ally a
matter of time it gets smaller andsmaller. M h. Apple Watch.
So Tim Cook goes to this WhiteHouse Security conference and one of the TV
networks remarked, well, Google wasn'tthere, Microsoft wasn't there, and Apple

(02:19:58):
was mention only as an afterthought.Yeah, it's an interesting thing. Tim
Cook has on a number of occasionsnow mentioned the importance of privacy, mentioned
the importance of not being the product, and he has said that he thinks
that consumers will care about that increasinglygoing forward. But Apple has yet to

(02:20:26):
actually come out swinging on this stuff. So Tim Cook mentioned it on the
Charlie Rose Show in twenty fourteen lateand twenty fourteen after the Apple Watch was
announced. He mentioned it at theGoldman Sachs conference that he took that he
took part in, I think thatwas last week earlier in February, and
then he talked about privacy. Yetagain at this conference that you're talking about

(02:20:48):
that the White House was together.So clearly this is something that Apple thinks
is important. Apple has said thatyour privacy is something that you should have
control over. You know, anApple has made I messages and iPhones encryptible

(02:21:09):
in such a way that even Applecannot get into them without your password,
something that the US government and theUK government hate and feel entitled to have
a backdoor into. And so alot of what Tim Cook was saying was
aimed at the US government, buta lot of what he was saying was
also aimed at the fact that capitalin the form of Google, Facebook,

(02:21:31):
and you know, just about everyother quote unquote free service company is doing
which is taking all the information aboutyou and selling it to the highest bidder.
And so I don't know, Iwant to know when Apple's actually you
know, one of the one ofthe quotes he said was that something about

(02:21:54):
how I can actually pull this oneup. It's worth of the way you
mind, you this is justice.You that the tech nine our live is
not scripted. There are points ofspontaneity that we need to observe every so
often. So let me let meactually quote from Tim Cook at this conference.
If those of us in positions ofresponsibility fail to do everything in our

(02:22:15):
power to protect the right of privacy, we risk something far more valuable than
money. We risk our way oflife. Fortunately, technology gives us the
tools to avoid those these risks,and it's my sincere hope that by using
them and by working together, wewill end quote now, on its face,

(02:22:35):
that could be aimed at the government, but I think again that it
also implies applies to Google, andyou know, so now I'm waiting for
the commercial, you know, withan Apple logo that says Google threatening our
way of life. Apple won't dothat. Apple won't do that, No,
of course not. But I wantto see it. I want to
see it. And people need toPeople need to be concerned about this.

(02:22:56):
People need to understand what's going onon. People get concerned about the government
getting our data and listening to usand and you know, tracking our whereabouts
and knowing what our emails are andlistening to our phone calls. And we
get concerned about that. And weshould be concerned about that because down that
pathway is a police state. ButI don't see why it's somehow okay,

(02:23:20):
for corporations to do the same thing. If anything, I find it,
I find it philosophically more repugnant becausethe corporations are making a profit off of
all of that same information. Thegovernment at least is theoretically looking for bad

(02:23:43):
guys when they do it, Butyou know, corporations, you're just trying
to make money from it. SoI don't know why people are okay with
with Google going through Gmail reading everyemail that you send them received so that
it can so that it can harvestdata to show you ads. You know
what Google bye by allowing people touse a g plus to sign into things,

(02:24:05):
but with its ad networks, Googletracks tracks us from site to site
all over the Internet. You know, let me give you an example of
how this works. It's scary.We have Brian Schaffan as the mac observer,
who is not scary. I don'tthink. I'm Gene Steinberger and the
Tech Night Ilive not just an alternativeto the mainstream media. We're the premiere

(02:24:31):
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(02:26:03):
dot com. We love that you'repassionate about GCN and whether you're a listener,
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(02:26:24):
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go to hbxtract dot com. Whatare you listening to the Tech nine aisle

(02:28:43):
line with Gene Steinberg? What's goingto happen next? You never know?
No. So the other day wewere looking into maybe getting a new mattress

(02:29:09):
because the mattress we have is Warren, It's over ten years old. My
back is suffering from this mattress.So we want to look for mattresses.
And there are a couple of firmsthat actually sell mattresses online and have made
a business of it. You know, there's Nova Bed, Yoga Bed,
Casper, places like that. Theysell these poem macros Casper. Okay,

(02:29:31):
in fact, we really would liketo get them as a sponsor. Casper
Beds and has nothing to do withmaking you into a ghost. Okay,
So here's the point. I goto these sites and I read the information.
I write a few letters, noneon my Gmail account, by the
way, and suddenly all the Googleads that I see on different sites are

(02:29:52):
showing these same products. So whateverI did, they found out. I
mean, you can HI, youcan base turn on privacy so you're not
tracked. But under normal circumstances mostpeople don't do that. So it's kind
of scary. When I'm looking fora product or service, Suddenly the ads
from Google ads Sense know that andthey're after me. Yeah, yeah,

(02:30:15):
did you search for mattress companies?I did? Yeah, well that's where
they that's where they gotcha. Idid one, one or two searches for
mattress companies and then started visiting thosesites. Yeah, well that's why.
Yeah, And here's the funny.Here's the funny thing. I just wanted
this big rant about like privacy andyou know, companies profiting off of me
that way. For some reason,it doesn't bother me that my searches are

(02:30:39):
being tracked by Google so that theycan show me ads. That doesn't bother
me. It's it's all of myother stuff that bothers me and I don't
know. I don't know why Iseparate them, but it's true I do.
Okay. So the key here isthat whatever it is, Google is

(02:31:00):
looking out at you, not foryou, but at you to see what
you're doing, to track it tosell targeted ads, and Apple doesn't do
that, although Apple of course opensup the search in their browsers to whichever
company is giving them the right bit. Now it's Google, but maybe next
year it's going to be being Yeah, and Apple has been sort of getting

(02:31:22):
you know, it was Spotlight inYosemite. Apple sort of does some of
its own searching for you. Itactually gives you some results that are the
most common kinds of results that youmight be looking for, right in the
Spotlight search bar, which is ahuge threat to Google. It's leapfrogging the

(02:31:43):
search engin And it's an interesting thingthat Apple is doing that. And Apple
does have IAD that means that Appleis tracking some of our activities. But
here's the deal. Apple is theloan company offering any kind of advertising service

(02:32:05):
that refuses to give our personal informationto the advertisers. Apple insists on being
the mediator, the go between youthe advertisers, go to Apple, they
tell Apple what they want, andthen Apple ends up serving those ads,
and the companies have no idea towhom those ads are going. And I'm

(02:32:30):
a lot more okay with that thanI am okay with Google's business model.
Well, the reason being, ofcourse, here is that Apple is not
taking your information. By the way, as we talk, there's a published
report in mac Rumors saying that Appleis aiming to begin to produce this car
in twenty twenty, which is basicallywhat we said. You know, yeah,

(02:32:52):
it's the Bloomberg they're actually talking aboutthe Bloomberg story. It comes out
Bloomberg, by the way, Butyou know, this is part of what
we been saying. In any case, let's get back to privacy. So
Apple has added two factor authentication tomore and more features. They're obviously showing
concern for privacy no matter what.There are no backdoors, at least they

(02:33:15):
claim there are no back doors thatthey can recover anything. But that also
adds the problem. If you havetwo factor authentication and you forget factor two,
what do you do? Oh,I don't I don't know. I
haven't run into that particular problem yet. I haven't had to figure it out.

(02:33:35):
It's terrible. It's a terrible answer. I'm sorry, that's okay.
So with privacy, Apple emphasizing privacyhere, do you think that is the
one thing that's helping in terms ofsmartphones for iOS to grow against Android.
I don't know. I actually thinkthat no one cares about this stuff.

(02:33:58):
No one's thinking about it. Again, on Thursday, it was an interesting
week. On Thursday there was areport that Lenovo was shipping PCs with a
back door built into them, preinstalled by Lenovo so that they could something

(02:34:20):
about like helping advertisers find interesting shoppingopportunities. I mean, in other words,
in other words, selling selling people, selling acts. I don't I
don't even I don't even know exactlywhat they were thinking. They probably weren't
thinking. But here's the deal.This thing that they installed could be used

(02:34:41):
by anyone else. Why because it'sthe back door. Back doors are accessible
to anyone. It just really illustratesthe fundamental flaw in the White House's uh
desire to have to have back dooraccess. In the UK's the Prime Minister's

(02:35:01):
desire to have that same backdoor access. You know, they feel entitled to
have these back door accesses when ifthey have it, SODA's, so do
all of the bad guys. Andit's just it's just it doesn't work that
way. Security doesn't work that way. And as far as people don't care,

(02:35:22):
I don't think that Apple's smartphones areselling in record numbers because because more
and more people are saying to themselves, oh goodness, I don't want to
be the product I actually I don'tthink anyone cares about that. It hasn't
become a competitive advantage. And partof that's because Apple isn't making it one.
Tim Cook talks about it. Butthe only people that are paying attention

(02:35:45):
to that are people like us andour readers and listeners and Wall Street.
You know, there's two little echochambers there that pay attention to this stuff.
The but mainstream America, mainstream worldis not particularly paying attention to that
yet. What the mainstream world islooking at other things, other considerations,
and they buy a new computer orsmartphone. No, but that wise they

(02:36:09):
wouldn't buy a Windows computer. Allthe years that Windows was suffering from serious
malware attacks, and now things werea lot better. All those years they
were buying more Windows PCs than ever. It's a good point didn't make a
difference, didn't help. Oh well, so in twenty twenty, there'll be

(02:36:30):
an Apple car. In April thisyear, there'll be an Apple Watch,
and I won't mention the Apple spaceshipthat will take us to Mars ahead of
Elon Musk. Yeah, well,Apple enter into the space business. That's
exciting. You know. You know, of course that I'm writing a science
fiction nodel. Actually I've written ascience fiction nodel and it said about one

(02:36:50):
hundred and twenty one hundred and thirtyyears in the future, and in that
future there is a company called AppleDisney and and they make quite a few
things. It's just a socidey.It's not part of the plot or anything.
It's just part of the background ofthe world. But yeah, where
will Apple go after cars? That'sthe thing that really has me interested now
I know, now that I knowApple is interested in cars, what is

(02:37:13):
the next industry that they're thinking about? The space is the limit the final
front here, Brian Schaffin, pleasetell our listeners where they can find more
of the stuff you do. Iam at MacObserver dot com and you can
find me on Twitter at Tmobrian.It's Brian with a y. You can
find us on Twitter. We're knownas tech night Ow Tech night Now on
Twitter. You can also check outour site technightou dot com. Go to

(02:37:39):
plus dot tech night ol dot com, p l u s dot Tech Nightout
dot com and learn about our Technight Out Plus service. The version of
the show higher resolution copy free ifnetwork ads from modest, monthly or annual
or five year subscription fee plus dottech Nightout dot com. We have another
radio sh show about UFOs and thingsthat go bump in the night. And

(02:38:03):
this weekend on the Powercast will befeaturing doctor John Brandenburg. And he's a
plasma physicist and a senior propulsion scientist. Really smart guy, and he's written
a book about Death on Mars.That's the title Death on Mars. The
guy's name is doctor John Brandenburg.On the Power Cast go to powercast dot

(02:38:26):
com, paracast dot com. BrianChaffan, thanks for joining us on the
Tech Night Out Live. Thanks forhaving me, Geene, it's a pleasure.
The Tech Night Out Alive is acopyrighted presentation of Making the Impossible Incorporated.

(02:38:48):
We'll be back next week, samebad time, same bad shadow