The Tech Night Owl LIVE Jan 3, 2015

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:25):
Welcome to the Tech night owl Live, the show for PC users who can
handle the truth and now here's yourhost, Geene Seiberg. This week on
the Tech night Owl Live, we'llbe featuring Josh Senters, the managing editor
of Tibbets. We'll also hear fromPeter Cohen, who has done everything in

(00:48):
the Apple universe, currently working foriMore. All this and more for our
first episode of twenty fifteen on theTech night Our Live. First, let
me remind everyone that we have anew feature of the Tech night Owl Live
called tech nighthl Plus. Tech nightol Plus means that if you subscribe,
we'll give you an ad free versionof the show in a higher resolution audio

(01:12):
copy so it sounds better. Sowhen we get some of those marginal connections
with some of our guests where they'reusing a speakerphone or a bad cell phone
certainly not an iPhone, we getyou somewhat better quality and it'll be easier
to understand. But we never havea problem understanding. Josh Centers, they'll
be joining us in a moment.We also want to tell you that if

(01:33):
you want to get that subscription versionof the technight ol Live, go to
plus dot Tech nightou dot com plusdot tech nightow dot Com. Josh Centers,
Welcome to this show. I hopeyou're twenty fourteen was great and twenty
fifteen will be even better. Solet's move into what's been going on here.
Apple had I guess, a prettyup year for twenty fourteen, with

(01:55):
a few rocky moments. What's yourtake? Yeah, well, twenty fourteen
is pretty rough in general. Ithink a lot of people became disillusioned with
the Apple this year for two reasons. The first is software quality. Things
like iOS eight and Yosemite will apparentlyjust rush out the door and lock complaints
coming out of those two operating systems. And also, once again we're seeing

(02:16):
wildly inconsistent app store policies. Andit'll be interesting as the Apple Watch comes
out twenty fifteen how that's going toaffect development on that because developers don't seem
too stoked to do new stuff forApple right now. Well, here's the
thing I'm going to ask you.This new programming language that Apple came out
with called Swift. Has the reactionbeen ah, you know, hard to

(02:38):
say. I mean, I've seena few developers who've tried to do things
with it or have recoded their appsin it. But I think most people
are sticking with what they know,which is objective CI, what's been used
since the next days to code thingsfor first next Step and then OS ten
and now iOS, and most seemto be sticking with that and maybe just

(03:00):
playing with Swift here and there.So this is like a long game for
Apple potentially. Well, I thinkyou'll have to be, because it'll take
time to build the resources, tothe training resources, the development libraries,
things like that. More importantly,though, developers are going to need a
real incentive to switch at some point. I'm sure that incentive is going to

(03:22):
be Apple is going to say allyour apps don't have to be coded in
Swift. But until that day comes, you know, they're not heavily incentivized
to learn a whole new language,a whole new way of doing things that
may or may not work as wellas objective C. I mean, objective
C is try and true, it'sbeen tested for you know, almost thirty
years now. You know, Swiftis new ky on the block, and

(03:43):
it may take some time for itto gain traction. Like everything else,
these are works in progress. Now. When Apple had its WWDC in June
and they introduced the new versions ofOS ten and iOS and Swift. Some
people who write about Apple said,oh, that's nothing, it's just about
software. Where are some fancy newhardware, where are the new product initiatives?

(04:08):
Well, I think if you're upsetabout no hardware WWDC, you just
haven't been paying attention over the pastcouple of years, because Apple has moved
almost all their software announcements to WWDCand in the fall they'll do a hardware
show, you know, and Imean they might announce some max stuff at
WWDTC, but you know, it'sa it's a show for developers. It's

(04:29):
a conference for developers, and thefact that we get you know, previous
of things is sort of incidental tothat. I think most people who are
you know, intelligent about Apple werepretty excited for the announcements themselves because it
seemed to signify a more open Appleand Apple that was well and to listen
to customers and developers. I'm notsure if it's turned out that way,

(04:50):
But but is Apple really listening orwas that just a little bit of window
dressing. I mean, of course, now we have the third party keyboards
that we could use is fully supportingthe system for iPhones and iPads, So
maybe that's it. Well, that'sone thing. Well, part of the
problem is if you're working on withthese extensions, who knows of Apple will

(05:12):
let you. Well, then theymight prove it initially or they may not.
But even if they prove it,who knows if you get to stay
in the store. There's a keyboardI heard about, and it puts a
calculator in the keyboard. I heardthe Apples making them pull that they might
change their mind. They keeps theyseem to keep flip flopping on what you
can and cannot do with extensions,and it gives me the impression, I

(05:36):
think it gives a lot of peoplethe same impression that there's some kind of
internal conflict at Apple and it's justsort of a spilling out into the public.
I get the feeling that the focusin charge of the app store don't
necessarily want the extensions and things likethis they're offered, and this is sort
of a passive, aggressive way oftrying to discourage those. Hopefully twenty fifteen

(06:00):
Apple gets that under control. Applegets a grip on that. Hopefully Tim
Cook and step in and say enoughand get everyone on the same page.
That's been always the way with theApp Store, though, where Apple seems
to flip flop a little bit,And maybe it's because they have a lot
of people who have to put togetherthese reviews and approvals of new software,

(06:26):
and sometimes there are gray areas,and in those gray areas they try to
make things consistent and never get thatway it ends up being inconsistent. Well,
from some of these stories from developers, it's almost sounded like someone from
the App Store to contact them andsit and would say someone high up has

(06:48):
said no, and so that givesme the impression that there's some sort of
higher up scuffle of some kind.So I'm not sure what's going on.
We may never know, but it'svery annoying and I can't help but feel
that it's going to hurt the AppleWatch because at least in the first stage

(07:10):
of development, there's not much you'regonna be able to do anyway, because
it's just going to be kind oftether for the iPhone. But then on
top of that, developers are youknow, right now, are skittish to
do anything unique with iOS or AppleWatch because who knows if it is to
stay around or not. So Appleneeds to come out and be very clear
about what is and what is notallowed. And there was someone from the

(07:31):
App Store review team who told adeveloper that that was exactly the idea.
They did not want to be.They didn't want to codify this stuff,
which leads me to think that itis some sort of conflict between departments,
because if the App Store team decidedthey wanted to have guidelines for what you
can and cannot do, they wouldhave to involve other departments as well,

(07:51):
like the engineering and all that.So that gives me the impression that there's
someone who doesn't want to codify thingsbecause they want to actually get the stuff
they don't want allowed by the letterof Apple law. So who knows.
It's very annoying, But you know, I would implore Tim Cook to fix
this as soon as possible because it'sreally uh angering a lot of developers.

(08:18):
I think it's going to hurt Applein the long run if it's not fixed.
Well, it may still have somethingto do with the sheer quantity of
material they get, the size ofthe review team. Does anybody know how
many people actually review new software submissions? I would not know. I doubt
anyone really has a good number.Some developers might have a guess. I

(08:41):
can't remember the app, but asI mentioned earlier, there was someone from
the app Store team who contacted thisdeveloper and explicitly told them that we don't
want to write the rules down,and in fact, we want to make
examples out of the most prominent appsthat we don't want in this or because
we want to send a message tonot do this sort of stuff, almost

(09:03):
like mafia tactics. So right,but how do we know that's true?
Well, we don't other than whatwas said. So we basically have one
developer quoting Apple saying something that probablythey wouldn't want to get out of true,
and we're depending on that developer tobe truthful. And you see what

(09:26):
I mean, Right, how dowe know? I mean, we don't
know what Apple's real policy is.Accept what they tell us, accept what
they put into words that can beaccessed from their developer site. Beyond that,
it's just what somebody says, justhearsay evidence, But you know,
you get the point. Josh Centeris managing editor of Tidbits is here.

(09:46):
You go to tidbits dot com tosee all the stuff they do. I'm
Jeene Steinberg. You're in the technightoutlive. Do you need a website?
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If you'd like to discuss today's showwith fellow night owl's, visit our community

(14:18):
forums at forum dot technightowl dot com. That's forum dot tech NightOwl dot com.
So we're talking here about Apple's posturetowards developers, whether they're doing things
that are a hostile somebody's report claimingthat someone in Apple's developer group or review

(14:43):
group said something that seems to indicatethey're really taking a hostile attitude but don't
want to reveal it. But thenit was revealed. I don't know,
does it makes sense to you?I have no idea. So I was
looking that up because I couldn't rememberwhich developer was. It was a Greg
Gardner who developed Launcher, so he'spretty respected in the community. So I

(15:05):
would say, if that's what hesaid happened, then that is what happened.
And that's you can read about thaton tidbits. It's an article by
Adam Inks called ioas eight app developmentbecomes it bring Me a Rock game.
So if you're interested in this topic, checkout on tidbits and Adam talks at
link about it. Let's move intosome other stuff here, so we get
to the new iPhones. The iPhonesix is introduced in September. Now it

(15:30):
looks to me that Apple, inproducing those products, took the air out
of most any reason anyone ever hadto buy one of those large Android phones.
Well, I mean, unless youjust like Android better. But if
you just want the form factor,then yeah, there's no reason to move
my iPhone. And you also hearthose reports that Samsung's sales aren't doing so

(15:52):
well, especially the Galaxy S five. This is the successor to the S
four, supposed to be their bignew smartphone that can be with anything,
and they sold a lot less thanthey expected to. Well, you know,
it's tough to say exactly why theirsales are faltering, but my guess
would be just because you know,anytime I ember touched a Samsung Galaxy phone,

(16:15):
they've always felt very cheap to me, and they seem to break easily
and just starting very solidly built.So I can imagine someone going to a
store and you know they're they're touchingthe phones for themselves, and you know
they just want something with a largescreen, and they pick up the iPhone
six with six plus and they compareit to the Galaxy. Then I could

(16:36):
see why they'd go with the iPhonesix because I'm a little annoyed by the
big size. But it's a verywell made phone. It feels very solid
in your hand, has the nicerounded corners, So I can see how
very easily see how someone would choosean iPhone over a galaxy. Now,
the obvious question here is size.There is an example, I think we've

(16:56):
mentioned this before where our friend KirkMacklhurn, who was written for Take Control
books and writes for Macworld as theiTunes guy, and he bought an iPhone
six when it first came out,one of the first people to get one,
and within a week or two hereturned it because it was just too
large. You know, I hada hard time for the first week or

(17:18):
so, but I got used toit. So maybe kirksha should reconsider and
try it for a little longer.And that's most people I know, most
pe all know, you know who'vegot the six take It takes some adjustment,
but they get used to it.But I'm happy with mine. It's
a very solid phone. And youknow, if he hadn't had touch id
before, that's great. So yeah, and the size thing, actually,

(17:41):
for I almost wish I went withthe six plus because it took some getting
used to anyway, and with thesix plus you get, you know,
a little larger screen, you getsome more keys on your keyboard, and
you get way better battery life.So I almost kind of wish I wasn't
even bigger, but I'm happy forwhere I'm at. Well, I know
I had brief exposures to an iPhonesix plus. The cable guy brought one.

(18:03):
He was here to do some workon my broadband service, and he
saw that I had for review oneof those iMac with record of the five
K displays, and he asked meabout it, and then he said,
look what I got here, andhe takes out this big thing and I
looked at it, and I triedto put it in my pocket. He
had it like a rugged ized casethough, because he's taking it in the
field with him and he didn't wantto damage it. But I couldn't get

(18:26):
it into my pocket comfortably at all. So I am happy that I never
decided to buy an iPhone six plus. And that's a problem for some people.
I know Tony Yingks hates the iPhonesix size. So hopefully next year
they'll come up with a smaller phoneagain. Well, there is a right
now, a request from some peopleat Apple do that. There's an article

(18:48):
in Mac World calling for an iPhoneMini, which would be basically the same
form factor as the iPhone six orsix plus. Or whatever it's called next
year, sixcess whatever, and it'sjust smaller. Yeah, I mean,
and that could happen. It's sohard to say anymore, because when I
first heard of the rumor that there'sgonna be a six and a six plus,

(19:10):
I was thinking, no way that'sgonna happen. They're not gonna introduce
two separate iPhones, And sure enoughthey did. So you know, all
bets are off for Apple now.Yeah, I imagine how they have been
doing with this. Just before theholiday season ended, Apple finally caught up
with demand for the iPhone six andiPhone six plus, so there may have

(19:30):
been Umonga's sales at the same time. As a story this week in USA
Today suggesting that iPad sales were probablydipping this holiday season. Yeah, I'm
not the I'm not surprised by thatbecause for a few reasons. First of
all, you know, the iPadisn't subsidized, you know, with the

(19:52):
iPhone. With the way plans arestructured in the United States, if you
don't buy a new phone every coupleof years, you're kind of throwing your
money away because you spend you payall this extra money for your plan.
With the assumption that part of it'sgoing to subsidize a phone. So if
you don't buy a new phone,then you know you're you're missing out on
that more or less. So you'reyou're very much incentivized to upgrade your phone

(20:15):
every couple of years. The iPad, I mean for I think for most
purposes, even like an iPad twois fast enough for what most people do
on it. I mean, aniPad two will handle video. Just find
even an iPad one, I meanyou can't. I don't. I can't
remember which software version it ended on. But even that, you know it
can you know, do video,It can do uh whatever you need.

(20:37):
So for most users, you know, there's no need to upgrade an iPad
any more often than you upgrade aPC. Uh plus you know, yeah,
you don't. You don't get thesubsidy, you don't feel like you're
missing out anything. And even andalso now with these larger phones, there's
less of a reason to go tothe iPad for things. Ever since I

(21:00):
finished my IOLs eight book and Igot the screenshots I needed, I haven't
touched my iPad. I haven't usedit for anything for a couple of months.
Now. It's has been singing ina drawer because if it's not you
know, if I'm not reading acomic book or something at the time,
it's uh, I don't have muchuse for it. If I'm gonna watch
a video, I've watch it onApple TV. If I'm gonna read,

(21:22):
I'd rather do my kindle internet browsing. I'm just happy doing my iPhone as
anywhere, or even on my Mac. So it's kind of a device that
I'm not sure what the purpose is. And the iPad's always had this problem.
It's kind of an awkward device.You know, if you watch a
movie on your laptop, Let's sayyou're watching a movie in bed. On
your laptop, you can sit onyour lap and prop the screen up as

(21:45):
it's built in. If you're tryingto do that with an iPad, you
either have to hold the screen upyourself or get some kind of gadget to
hold up for you. And it'sjust it's more awkward. And even in
terms of a lap device, youknow, you're looking you know, if
you hold the put the iPad inyour lap, you're looking straight down at
it, and that hurts your neck. So you don't want to do that,

(22:07):
so you have to prop it upsomehow, which means you hold it
up while you're sitting, or youcross your legs and you put the iPad
on your leg. But this isa very awkward, clumsy device, and
that's the thing I think people nevertalk about with it. I mean,
it's it's a nice device. Ilike my iPad air when I have use
for it, but I just findmyself reaching for it less and less.
Let me tell you a story here. My sister in law has an iPad

(22:32):
three. My wife has the reviewiPad air two that we got from app
On. I'll give you a verdictin a moment. We have Josh Senter's
of Tidbits with us. I'm GeeneSteinberg. You're in the Tech Night.
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Tech Night Owl because you never knowwhat's going to happen next. This is

(27:26):
our first episode for twenty fifteen withJosh Centers at Tidbits and Take Control Books.
I'm Jeene Steinberg. If you're onthe Tech Night Owl Live or reminder,
go to plus dot tech Nightow dotcom, p l us dot technightow
dot com to join the Tech nightNow plus service get the ad free version
of the show. All right,let's move on here. We're talking about

(27:48):
the iPad now. I played withmy sister in law's iPad three and the
iPad Air two. Now, obviouslythe iPad Air two is what half is
thick or something like that. I'mmuch lighter lighter than last year. They
both have retina displays pretty similar.I mean, supposedly the iPad Air two
has a slightly better display. I'llgrant that for most purposes, it's not

(28:10):
altogether faster that that becomes a dealbreaker for the older machine. No,
well, I mean if you lookat the evolution of the iPad line.
I jumped in at the iPad atthe iPad two because I tend not to
buy the first generation of anything Appledoes, So you're not going to buy
an Apple Watch. I might,but for testing purposes. I don't have
personally have a huge desire to buyone right away. But that may change.

(28:34):
I'll have to see the product andwhat people are doing with it.
But you know, I start withthe iPad two and the iPad two,
other than not having rented display,it was just about perfect. And then
they come up with a three andI'm like, oh darn, there's that
retina display I've been wedding. Butthen you hold it and it feels like
a brick. It was a lotheavier than the iPad two. And the
iPad four came out. I don'tthink they were I don't think they called

(28:55):
it the four technically, but forsimplicity's sake, we'll say, the iPad
four that was a little bit better, not much, And then when the
air came out, I'm like,oh, okay, there's an ipadic and
upgrade too, But I wish Ihad touch ID. But I'm not going
to buy an air too just forthe touch ID. So what do you
think of the Air two. What'syour verdict on that? Well, I
like the fact that it's thinner.I like the fact that obviously it's faster

(29:18):
in the previous year's version. Beinglighter is easier, more from my wife
than myself, because she tends tohave stiffness in the joints and being able
to carry something lighter is better forher. Probably, when we send the
unit back to Apple, she's goingto save up and buy one because she
likes it. She likes the iPad. She does not like a Mac,

(29:40):
and for various and centry reasons notto really mention here, she doesn't like
her iPhone that much. She likesthe bigger space because she's not trying to
make phone calls. He's just tryingto go online. She's trying to start
a business for women's handbags and accessorieswith her sister, and therefore she likes
the larger, but she doesn't likemax at all. I think it's in

(30:03):
a budstment with the iPad gene isthat when they came up with a sixth
plus all on the six also,they came up with all these ways to
take better advantage of all that screenspace, right, Like you can double
touch the home button and things dropdown. That they call that reachability.
There's extra keys on the keyboard,a lot of the little things like that.
How come the iPad doesn't have that? Why don't I have extra keys

(30:25):
in my iPad keyboard? Yeah?Well, you know I have here a
Logitech accessory Bluetooth keyboard for the iPadAir two. And when you insert the
iPad into this slot, it seemsawfully wobbly. You know, it looks
like the kind of thing you wantto hold in one place. And I

(30:47):
can understand that, but I can'tsee trying to carry that around. It
would be very awkward. And thereason I even look at that is because
my son is thinking. Now hehas a black MacBook from two thousand and
eight. He guy's a graduation present, and now he's thinking, you know,
when that computer goes and everything's beenreplaced on it, already. You
know, that was the MacBook fromthe other place. We had to go

(31:11):
back to Apple Support a couple oftimes to get extensions to the Apple Care
warranty because so many things broke.It's in good shape now, but he
says, when that goes, whenit's time to send it out to pasture,
he'll probably get an iPad. Butif he does, he's then going
to want, you know, maybegain an iPad. Yeah. I'll tell

(31:33):
you what. If I weren't soheavily invested in the Apple ecosystem, I
would be I would be taking aserious look at the Surface. Three I
realized it. You know, ithas its own It has plenty of flaws
of its own. But I thinkit's a fascinating device because it solves a
lot of the iPad Mac problems thatI have. You know, when you're
it's considering how to move things,you know, from iPad to Mac and

(31:55):
vice versa. You know, howto use your how to type intertext on
your iPad. Know, Microsoft atleast seems to be trying to address all
of these with the surface. Ofcourse, my problem has been Windows eight
is just the worst operating system everused, and that includes several varieties of
Linux and other open source operating systems. But I would like it if Apple

(32:21):
tried an approach like that. Idon't think they will, but you know,
Apple's also, you know, theirtheir stock and trade has always been
to take ideas from other people andmake them actually workable. So maybe at
some point they will do something likethat. Maybe Apple make its own kind
of surface and you know, solveall the awkwardness that is inherent with that

(32:45):
product. Well, I don't know. As I look at this, I
still wonder whether I would ever wantan iPad for myself. And I can't
make a case for it. I'vereally tried, right, It's yeah,
it's it's one of those things it'sso hard to find a use for,

(33:05):
especially when you have the larger phone. Uh. You know, when I
first got my first iPhone was aniPhone four, I have done kind of
relate to that. But you know, after I used it for a bit,
and before that was I made funof the iPad a bit, I'm
like, okay, that that seemslike a really weird device. But you
know, after I use my iPhonefour for a bit, I'm like,
Okay, I could see why you'dwant a larger one of these. But

(33:25):
you know, yeah, now withthe the six and the sixth plus,
I mean, it doesn't take awayevery reason I'd won an iPad, but
uh, you know, like Iwould't I wouldn't want to try to read
comic books on my iPhone six.It's just that the screen is not large
enough. But you know for mostthings, I mean even like reading text
and stuff, you know, readingthings with the Kindle app it, you
know, if you care to dothat in your iPhone, which I usually

(33:49):
don't, but if you care todo that, then you know the six
is large enough to do that.Games, you know, the screen is
plenty large enough without being awkward,because I I think even most iPad officionados
will agree that the size of theair is still that ten inch screen is
still a little too large for alot of things, especially gaming where you

(34:09):
have to actually have your hands onthe screen. It's a little too large
for that, and so the Miniis really the optimal size. But then
you know, you have the sixand six plus coming so close to the
size of the Mini, it's kindof well, why don't need this other
device? And I always have thisiPhone with me, so you know,
why do not just use that?Well, I know that the iPhone six

(34:31):
plus clearly is cannibalizing sales from theiPad right, I mean not that I
think Apple minds. In fact,I think they almost prefer that because the
update for the the iPad Mini thisyear was kind of pitiful, and the
year before that, last year theyyou know, they made the iPad Mini

(34:55):
and iPad Air equal. I thinkthat hurt the iPad Air. So you
know, I would I wouldn't beterribly surprised if they end up getting rid
of the iPad Mini, because I'msure they'd mu sure they'll be selling the
much more profitable iPhone six plus alongsidethe more profitable iPad Air. Right,
But if there is a reasonable demand, even a reduced demand, Apple isn't

(35:17):
going to cut out that product.Remember they had lots of iPods going on
there, and so it's possible there'sstill a demand. Which is why they
continue to sell the first three generationsof iPad minis they want to cater to
people who don't want to spend fivehundred dollars for a tablet and still aren't
going to replace that with buying aniPhone six plus. It's not an easy

(35:40):
decision to make. No, it'snot. It's I'm sure that they're thinking
about this all the time. Well, I think the bottom line is Apple
doesn't care what you're buying from them, as long as you're buying Apple.
You know, if all their stuffis competing with each other and you're not
even thinking about a competing companies,it's all Apple's products are in competition.

(36:01):
That's a pretty good position to bein. Well, the long term success
of the iPad, where it's goingto go is another big question. There's
another story that you've heard several timesthis year that Apple is considering a large
iPad, like an iPad pro thatwill have a screen of over twelve inches.
I think even the Wall Street Journalhad something about that. Not that

(36:23):
that necessarily makes it more credible.Let's talk about that in our next segment.
Can Apple revive the iPad and doesmaking a larger version makes sense?
We have Josh Centers of Tidbysons aControl Books. I'm Geene Steinberger in the
Technight How Live Great Minds, ThinkAlive? The Network for the Independent Minded.

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(41:07):
here's the Tech Night Owl Lies withJean Steinberg. We have Josh Centers of

(41:28):
Tidbits and take Control books. I'mGeene Steinberg. You're in the Tech Night
How Live. So let's look atthat front and center. Should there be
an iPad pro is that the directionApple should take. Is there a market
for it? Maybe in the businessworld, you know, possibly, But
I think the bigger, the broaderquestion beyond well larger iPad sell is what's

(41:50):
the software going to offer? Becauseas it stands right now, if I
just had like an iPad air withthe current Iowa State software behaving as it
does now, it was just large. Sure, I'm not sure. I'm
not sure that would have a lotof appeal for people. That'd probably about
as appealing as the seventeen inch MacBookPro was. It would have a niche,
for sure, but I don't thinkit would sell in droves. You

(42:10):
know, if this is a promodel, they're going to have to offer
some professional capabilities to go with it. And we know, you know,
people poked around and found clues inils A that Apple has been working on
side by side apps that would beinteresting. I'm not sure it would be
compelling enough to sell a whole newdevice. I think something they really need
for a professional machine is they needtheir own solution to the keyboard problem.

(42:34):
They need some way to be ableto use this thing like a laptop and
it not feel clunky and awkward.Because it's great to use the iPad your
lap, but when it's time toentertext, it's time to you know,
get things done. The keyboards whereit's at. There's no way around that.
I mean, my son's generation mightbe just as good with the touchscreen
keyboards as we are with a physicalkeyboard, but that's that's not here yet

(43:00):
and it may never be here forthe text entry problem. They also need
to be friendlier to power users andpower user applications. There's this really cool
app called Workflow that's that's come outfor iOS. It's an automation app and
it takes a lot of event takesa heavy advantage of iOS, it's extensibility
capabilities. Really cool app, buteveryone's on pins and needles, like okay,

(43:22):
when's Apple going to kick out ofthe app store? So if they
really want to appeal to professionals,they need to be friendlier to these sorts
of apps. Let them know thatthey're welcome and allowed and you beloved and
whatnot, and they have to developthe software for it. I mean,
just slapping a bigger screen in theiPad I don't think is going to sell

(43:43):
to professionals. But you really haveto offer additional capabilities. So much for
the iPad. Let's look at otherproducts, the one that got neglected this
year. Every year we hear somethingthat's going to be a brand new Apple
TV, and now we hear reportssaid Chrome Cast and Roku maybe doing better
than Apple in terms of sales.But the Apple TV is a very same

(44:06):
one that's been out for three yearsnow, except for a minor processor change
that really didn't do anything. Sowhat happens with Apple TV? Oh,
that's uh gee. At this point, I'm gonna can see that your guests,
is this good as mine because forthe past whoever, since I started
working on the Apple TV book lastsummer, I've been predicting a new Apple

(44:29):
TV because I thought one would comeout while I was working on the book.
I I was afraid for that,and then that didn't happen. I
thought, okay, well, it'llcome out right after I finished the book,
and that didn't happen, and Ithought, okay, well, it
will definitely, without a doubt comeout this fall with new iPads, and
that that has not happened. Mycurrent thinking is we're going to see one
with the Apple Watch. And youcan take this with a heavy grain of

(44:52):
salt. But the reason I thinkthat is because Tim Cook mentioned controlling his
Apple TV with his Apple Watch.So maybe, just maybe there will be
a new revision of the Apple TVthat's made to work with Apple Watch,
and maybe you have to buy anew Apple TV for that feature. But
even then that's not necessarily necessary.I don't see them necessarily doing that.

(45:16):
I think part of the problem withthe Apple TV is that since they made
it kind of a dumb box thatjust you know, serves stuff over the
Internet, then you know, formost purposes, it's fine. There's no
reason to really overhaul the hardware.Software wise, there's probably some more things
they could do. There's definitely thingswe'd like to see them do, like

(45:37):
an app store, apps, thingslike that, but that's almost more of
a software thing than a hardware thingat this point. So I mean,
I'm sure they're working on one.I guess the challenge is coming up with
a reason why you would buy anew one, And for that there's probably
deals with content companies, and that'sa very tricky business. Tviness is very

(46:00):
ugly and messy and complicated, andyou know, if they're trying to deal
with content providers like say ESPN,at the same time, they're trying to
deal with ISPs like or ISPs orother cable providers, TV providers like Comcast
or a TV that's a that's athorny situation, and that could take potentially
years to resolve. And then meanwhile, people who aren't as invested in Apple,

(46:24):
you know, they they look andthey see, oh, well,
the Chrome cast. It's thirty fivebucks. I just plug it in.
It's neat little It's a neat littlething. I'm just plug into my TV.
It's not actually, it's actually notquite that neat once you got all
the cables hooked up to it.But for marketing purposes, those little sticks
are very appealing, you know,when people see the Roku, and the
Roku has a lot of brand recognitionto this point, and frankly has a

(46:47):
lot more channels and customization options thanthe Apple TV. So unless you're really
invested in iTunes, you know,there are better options. I mean,
I still think the Apple TV isthe best bunch, but I'm a mantly
biased, you know, I wrotea book about the Apple TV. I've
used mine for years. I'm veryfamiliar with the interface. The Roku kind

(47:12):
of baffling to me, that sois the chrome Cast, because the chrome
Cast doesn't really have an interface.It's all done through your phone. But
but you know, if you're newto it, that that might be more
appealing to you. The Roku mightbe more appealing. I've heard a lot
of good things. I've heard.The fire TV sticks have been flying off
the shelves, which I find Ifind interesting, uh because I think the

(47:32):
stick, the fire TV stick takesoil all the most interesting features of the
fire TV. You know, Amazonthere has has a good offering, you
know, and you know they haveI don't know if they have music their
music service and the fire TV yet. I haven't played with mine in a
while, but you know they dohave you know, the full video service.
They have you know, the Primeinstant Video and you know, if

(47:54):
you're a budget user, the Amazonoption is pretty good because you spend nine
eighty bucks a year for time youget you get the two A shipping,
you get you know, you getthem access to the music and uh,
I think you get some free bookswith that, and uh, you know,
you get the TV streaming service.You know, so instead of paying
Netflix eight bucks a month and youknow iTunes this much and whatever. You

(48:15):
just you get spend one hundred bucksa year for prime, and then you
get how much is the fire TVstick? Like twenty five thirty dollars something
like that. So it's more thanthat, I think, isn't it?
Is it? Uh? I haven'tplayed close attention to it. I've just
heard. Okay, the Fire TVstick is thirty nine dollars. Thirty nine

(48:36):
dollars, but still that's that's prettycheap. A Fire TV, which is
closer in concept to a rokup oran Apple TV, it's ninety nine dollars,
right, Okay, So if you'relooking at say an Apple TV,
that's nine nine dollars. If youlook at the Fire TV stick, that's
thirty nine dollars. You know,I mean, if you're on a budget,
if you don't want to spend alot of money on this stuff,
I definitely see how the Fire TVstick they're chrome cast. Now let me

(48:58):
just tell you here. I havehad an Apple TV since the very first
the current version, which is whattwenty twelve now as of this weekend,
I try to watch a movie andthe remote control is broken. I replaced
the battery uses the same batteries thatyou use say in scales bathroom scales,

(49:19):
and I had a couple of extrasaround brand new batteries and the container didn't
work. Fortunately, I have theHarmony remote Harmony nine hundred remote from Logitech.
It's something I got a couple ofyears ago also, and I was
able to use that with the AppleTV. It's more of a traditional remote,
but all the controls are supported onit, so I was able to
make it work and I was ableto watch the movies. Had that not

(49:44):
happened, i'd be stuck without aremote. And I guess you can buy
the remote separately from Apple, butI just kind of wondered why it would
go in two and a half years, right, Well, yeah, that's
weird. My son, who's alittle over one year old, Uh,
somehow managed to break one of ours, and now I did. I was
able to fix it. And it'ssomething you can try, is if you

(50:06):
get safety pin and if you popoff the little controlling the control ring on
the front of the remote, youcan pop all that stuff out and you
can lift up the contacts and cleanand clean those off with a Q tip
and some alcohol and and that mightfix it. Because in our case,
the the up button wasn't working.But in mind, but nothing is working.

(50:28):
Oh nothing, huh, so it'sall or nothing. It's clean.
I opened it up. I lookedinside the little battery compartment. It seems
to be clean. So I'm assumingit's the remote because the unit works with
the third party remote. Well,I will give your your listeners a bit
of a tip here. So ifyour Apple TV remote goes missing, which

(50:50):
happens at our house all the timewith a toddler, or if it breaks,
or you know, just or ifyou just don't like it, you
can actually if you go in thesettings I detail this and take control of
Apple TV, you can actually programany third party remote to work with the
Apple TV, and you can dothat through the Apple TV interface. It
doesn't have to be even a Universalremote or say a Harmony remote something like

(51:13):
that. Actually, when I waswriting the book, I grabbed a random
remote that I think went to mywife's boombox, and I programmed there to
work with our Apple TV. Let'scontinue this in a moment. Josh centers
from Tidbots and take control books iswith us. Two more segments with him,
then we'll hear from Peter Cohen wereto come on the technight out live.

(51:37):
Not just an alternative to the mainstreammedia. We're the premiere independent talk
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(53:51):
to the tech night Owl Live whereyou never know what's going to happen next.
And now here's Gene Steinberg. Okay, so you can easily program another

(54:14):
remote as I did to work withApple TV. They provide the interface,
or in the case of the Harmony, they have a built in profile for
Apple TV. And by the way, if you still feel you need to
have the official Apple TV remote,well that's not a problem because Apple will
sell you a new one for allof nineteen dollars. And of course there's

(54:38):
always the remote app on the iPhoneor iPad, or you can use a
Bluetooth keyboard also, So that's onething to look at the Apple TV is
there's so many ways you can controlit. So you don't like one method,
your bound to found won't find oneyou like. All right, thank
you very much for the consideration.But still looking at the Apple TV forgetting

(55:00):
that I had the bed remote,and I guess I could just spend nineteen
dollars for a new one if Idon't want to stick with a harmony.
But now let's look at the overallposture here. If Apple is going to
offer an alternative service. They haveto make the deals with the content providers,
but what about making deals with thecable companies? So Apple TV becomes
the interface, right, And that'ssomething I've theorized about before, and I

(55:23):
still think that's something that's probably inthe works, but it's hard to see
beyond that veil of secrecy. Soat this point I'm just kind of waiting.
I have a wait and see attitude. It may never happen, or
happen sooner than we think. Ithink part of the X factor in this
equation is that content providers are area bit scared of Apple, you know,

(55:49):
after this, you know, theykind of see it at you know,
in terms of iTunes that Apple tookover the music industry. Really,
I mean, the reality is Applesaved the music industry. It was floundering
because piracy and all these other things, and Apple kind of you know,
pulled out the depths. But themusic industry doesn't see it that way,
and a lot of content providers don'tsee it that way, so, you

(56:10):
know, I think they're a bitskittish, you know. So that's the
real X factor there. So atthis point I'm just going to wait and
see and hope they come to somethingso I can update the book. Well,
it doesn't matter at this point whetheror not Apple makes zillions of dollars
from the Apple TV. Obviously theyhave a long range plan and we can

(56:31):
only guess at what it is.We can assume they're trying to offer their
streaming TV service. We can assumethat maybe they'll make a deal with the
cable companies. But the issue ishere. If they're offering an independent streaming
service, they get into the sameproblem at them that basically Netflix has,
which is what happens when the customerswho are just addicted to all that content

(56:54):
run a foul of the bandwidth capsfrom their ISP I know the one that
I use here give you a littlegauge. You can check online to see
how much bandwidth you're using. Butif you're using too much, you're kind
of stuck right well, and noteveryone understands this problem. See I have
a I have a bandwidth cap fromComcast. But that's you know, that's

(57:14):
not a very widespread thing. It'sit's definitely the case here in the in
the Nashville general area. But I'vetold other people about this, like when
I was working on the book,I was having to explain to some of
my editors, yes, I dohave a bandwidth cap on my home broadband.
And they were acting like I wastalking about churning butter or something like
Like I was like I was LooneyTunes. But yeah, that's a problem.

(57:35):
And see, that's one of thethings I think Apple is trying to
negotiate because we know certain services.You know, people talk about net neutrality
dying. Well that's already kind ofhappened because say, like, for instance,
if you have an Xbox and youhave Time Warner cable, you can
use the Xbox as your cable,as your cable box through the internet,
you know, using the Internet.I'm not talking about the HGM my pastor.

(57:59):
I'm talking actually I'm streaming every allyour TV over the Internet and that
doesn't affect your bandwidth cat and it'sbeen that way for a few years now.
So you know, I'm sure Apple'strying to work that sort of thing
out, but h at this point, I don't know what to guess anymore.
So you know, every time there'san Apple product announcement, I just

(58:22):
kind of wait and see. Well, sometimes you don't really know what's going
to happen until it does. Yeah, that's very true. All right,
Well let's see, Okay, we'llsee what happens here with Apple TV.
Now there is I sent you alink on this, and maybe it's interesting
to talk about because we have thatiPod suit, the lawsuit saying that during

(58:44):
the period of Apple had the fairPlay d r M, they were somehow
cheating the customers and locking them inmm HM, which which got thrown out
of court. Well I don't knowit didn't get thrown out, but they
rule the Jerry the judge whoever ruledin Apple's favor. It was a ridiculous

(59:05):
lawsuit because my understanding of it,I follow this only just sort of loosely,
but my understanding was the complaint wasbecause of this DRM, which the
music companies demanded they use, becausethat DRM did not work with other devices,
and somehow Apple was was locking withpreventing people from using other devices for

(59:25):
their music collection, which I mean, I mean, yeah, and then
that's one of the terrible things aboutDRM. But you know, Apple,
you know, was very upfront aboutnot wanting to have DRM. I mean,
Steve jobs Worth that big open lettersaying why DRM was ridiculous, and
uh, you know, and eventuallythey got rid of it, and you

(59:45):
know, now you can buy musicfrom iTunes as long as your music player,
which well, I guess people coulduse Android phones now. It was
trying to think of another MP threeplayer. There is an Apple that's popular,
but you know, as long asyou play those M four A files
then you're good to go. Soit's uh, I just found the whole

(01:00:07):
thing sort of frivolous, and apparentlythe court didn't too. And remember too,
the contradiction here, why didn't theysue Microsoft for Place for Sure if
you had a product that is usingPlace for Sure all five that were sold,
you were locked in. Yeah,and then they dropped it. And
then they had other DRM systems too, so you didn't even know what to

(01:00:30):
buy. So so if you boughtPlays for Sure music or Place for Sure
device, it was it was actuallythe opposite of Place for Sure. You
had to flip a coin whether itwas going to play or not. I
feel like that was much more deservingof a lawsuit because because you couldn't even
buy a Microsoft device and be surethat your Place for Sure stuff would work

(01:00:51):
at least if you know, ifyou have an iPod, you have an
iPhone, and you buy your musicfrom iTunes, you know your your iTunes
music is going to work on youron your iPod or your iPhone. It
wasn't that hard to strip the DRManyway. I mean, there were lots
of free apps that you could dothat. No one was prevented from listening
to their music if they really wantedto. Besides which, there are other

(01:01:14):
ways to get the music if youreally try hard enough. Right, you
don't have to try that hard.You don't want to get to it.
Let's just cover one more area that'sinteresting, and we'll extend this to our
next segment. There apparently is yetanother class action lawsuit that we're dealing with
now, and this one here wherethey charged it Apple is cheating misrepresenting storage

(01:01:38):
with iOS eight because roughly twenty percentof the storage capacity of a sixteen gigabyte
iPhone is consumed by the operating system. I think they forget that it's worse
on Android than others, right,I mean, and this is you might
as well sue the entire computing industry, because I mean that's the case with

(01:02:00):
every computer I've ever owned, andI've ever been aware of. I mean
a certain amount is taken it bythe operating system and by other things.
That's that's just the way it is. Yeah, I mean, if you
buy I can't remember what the ratiowas on the surfaces, but if you
if I remember something like if youbought like a thirty two gigabyte surface,
I think it was something like youwould have less than sixteen gigabytes usable because

(01:02:22):
the Windows eight took took up somuch of the storage space. So I
mean, is that the way itshould be? Probably not, but that's
just become kind of became a standard. I'm sure there's there's excellent engineering reasons
for that. I would say thebigger issue is that they still sill these
sixteen gigabyte eight and sixteen gigabyte devices, which which are too small for a

(01:02:46):
lot of people. Now I havesome friends who are not the least a
bit tech savvy, and they havesixteen gigabyte devices and they don't notice a
difference. But you know, evenfor say my wife, who is knowledgeable
but not really she comes in thisproblem all the time. We haven't got
her updated to iolas eight yet becauseshe has some photos on her phone that

(01:03:07):
Apple has has made really hard toget off because for some reason, iPhoto
isn't exporting them, you know,but that's a problem for a lot of
people that, you know, justtaking photos. They didn't have to install
apps, just taking photos and videosand things could quickly fill up your device
and then you're left wondering, howdo I manage this? But yeah,

(01:03:30):
this, this also is a ridiculouslawsuit, and I hope it's thrown out
swiftly. Oh. I don't knowhow you keep up with all these lawsuits.
A lot of lawyers are getting rich. I'm Jean Steinberg. You're in
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thoughts or comments about the tech nightOwl Live, please get in touch at
news at tech nitowl dot com.That's news at technightowl dot com. Looking
for past episodes. We've got hundredsat technitol dot com. Slash radio that's
technightl dot com slash radio, orsubscribe on iTunes. Of course, tech

(01:08:19):
authors don't get rich, just lawyerswith class action lawsuits. We have Josh
centers of tidbits and take control books. And we were talking about that nonsensical
claim that g twenty percent of thesixteen gigabyte space is being taken up by
iOS eight. But what about Samsung? What about Microsoft? That kind of

(01:08:39):
thing amazing. Let's move on twentyfifteen. We know there's an Apple Watch,
We're up in the air about AppleTV. What else might we expect from
Apple. Well, I mean,I'm sure we'll send in a version of
OS ten and iOS and I'll canhope for those versions and request the fairies

(01:08:59):
at Apple to do is to notfocus so much on new features, but
to do some sort of like snowLeopard, you know, cleanup of things
and make things more stable, andyou know, clean up some of the
crud and just fix things up.Because Apples software quality, I think most
people would agree, is taking ahuge dive, especially in this past year.
So that's something I wish they wouldwork on. You know, we

(01:09:24):
might see some new Macs, butthere's nothing I think people really have a
burning desire for. Me. Wehave the retin iMac. Now, I
would like to see a standalone RettinApple modor now. I'm sure that's coming
down the pike at some point togo with the Mac Pro, assuming they
keep the MacPro around. It seemslike a lot of professionals actually prefer the
reten iMac for their for their purposes, so we'll see how that goes.

(01:09:47):
Of course, we have a newiPhone. I'm sure it would be called
six plus or six S or youknow where we have a six plus.
You know what's awkward here is thesix S plus. Yeah, well I
also yeah, I also have theiPhone six MANI iPhone six s MANI.
We got the iPhone six s many, the iPhone six S Plus and the

(01:10:10):
iPhone six s. I don't know. Maybe maybe they won't do a plus
this year. Maybe they'll just bethe Maybe they'll do the plus every other
year. I don't know, We'llwe'll see how that goes. I'm sure
there'll be an iPad Air three orwhatnot. And I don't see them,
uh changing that design anytime soon.Is that's pretty good. It's pretty minimal

(01:10:31):
and uh now, I don't know. I mean, they did a lot
of I think the big focus ishere for Apple will be the watch and
trying to sell that. I thinkthe bigger story with the Apple Watch is
that you're going to You're probably gonnasee that. You can probably see in
the sidelines of basketball games. You'regonna see it at fashion events, You're

(01:10:51):
gonna see it. You're gonna seea lot of celebrities wearing this thing because
you know, I think that's partof the reason they hired the Beats guys.
They hired the lady from Birbury.You know, they really want to
put this in the hands of people, you know, on the risks of
people who can sell it, youknow. You know, there's that rumor
apparently Kobe Bryant was at the Appleheadquarters at some point. So I'm sure

(01:11:13):
we'll see these things out everywhere,and it's gonna be those things. You
know, if you pay attention tothe tabloids or teams or wherever you're you're
going to see you know, oryou see celebrities, they're probably one of
these things at the oscars. Sothat's kind of my prediction for Apple Watch.
I'm not sure capability wise what we'regoing to see. I don't think
it's going to be I don't thinkI don't think it's gonna be a geek

(01:11:34):
device. I don't think it's gonnabe a nerd device per sale, at
least not first. I think it'sgoing to be more directed at at the
fashion crowd. The you know it'sthey're gonna try to make it a a
popular device. Most kind of deviceis a lust after as a fashion accessory,
all right, that might be it, And the other question, of
course, the other argument would bemade with all this stuff going on in

(01:11:56):
the fashion industry and Apple Pay andall the new products. Is Apple biting
off more than they can chew?I think they're already be doing that.
I mean, they they've struggled withthis ever since iOS debuted, well it
wasn't called iOS then, but youknow, they've been having a hard time
with this, and you know,and they used to have the problem of

(01:12:18):
they'd work on an update for iOSand then neglect the Mac and then vice
versa, and then they got bothgoing at the same time. But now
their software quality is slipping. Andnow the girl were working on this watch,
which I think for a while isgoing to be a glorified second screen
for your iOS devices. So yeah, that's a real challenge for Apple,

(01:12:41):
and I hope they're they're working onfixing that, but this is something that's
been getting worse for a few yearsnow, so I'm not I'm not sure
if they know how to solve it. And I'm sure there was a certain
amount of push from marketing to anl on from investors to keep coming with
something new and some shiny and flashcyand that's uh, it's hard to keep

(01:13:04):
coming with new stuff, and youknow, with us taking time to do
maintenance on your older stuff. AndI think at some point Apple's is just
going to bite the bullet and polishup what they have, or they're going
to start losing customers. The theorythat Apple does too much, and I
guess one example of that was theiOS eight point zero point one update.
But I was also looking at thelist of the ten worst gaffs committed by

(01:13:28):
Microsoft in updates, and I sawstuff there that was causing reboots and boot
loops and all sorts of stuff forWindows. So if you think Apple did
bad, consider what Microsoft did.This is probably right, but look where
Microsoft is now. Now Microsoft's playingketchup. So I think the last thing
Apple wants to do is being Microsoft'sshoes, and that's why they need to

(01:13:50):
They need to focus on polishing upwhat they have. What I wonder here
is we had supposedly a million ormore people beta testing AWAY ten Yosemite in
a public beta. But when OSten Yosemite came out, we had some
annoying bugs, like a Wi Fibug where there'd be constant disconnects of your

(01:14:11):
Wi Fi network. And I havea simple question, if a million people
are more a beta tested this,how come this problem was not discovered.
Yeah, it's an excellent question.I wish I had a better answer.
You know, it's just the betatesting things is so difficult. And while
you know, I'm not in thatposition, I am in the position where
I do hear people's complaints about things, and I do try to help people

(01:14:32):
solve their problems with software, anda lot of times they'll ask me stuff
and I don't know what to tellthem because I've never had anything that resembles
that, like, for instance,Wi Fi issue. No one on the
Tidbit staff had had those Wi Fiissues with Yosemite, and we're you know,
and by the time they started comingout, we were all pretty familiar
with Yosemity, you know, andhave our own issues with it and such,

(01:14:55):
but you know, who were havingthese Wi Fi problems, So we
weren't quite sure what to write aboutit. You know. We did write
an article talking addressing some of themore common issues and uh, you know,
and we linked to some some fixesthat other people have found for Wi
Fi issues. But you know,as far as personal experience, you know,
if we don't experience the problem,we have a hard time figuring out

(01:15:15):
what the problem is. And andthere was nothing consistent reported. It was
you know, some people were sayingit was dropping out, some people were
saying it was disconnecting. Some peoplewere saying it was just being really slow
or high latency. You know,there were so many different issues and it
was it was impossible to say exactlywhat it was. And part of the
theory is that they're they're instead ofthey're putting Banjura over Wi Fi now instead

(01:15:38):
of I think Bluetooth, I mean, being totally wrong, but that you
know, that might be part ofthe issue. But you know, that's
just one example. Is something thatof an issue that it's hard to track
down because no of us are experiencingit, and considering the number here,
even if only a fraction of onepercent of the Mac user base had the

(01:15:59):
problem, you know, it maynot be enough to get a handle on
a cause, figure out what's goingon, determine it's an operating system update
that's required and not something involved withthe equipment, the hardware, the routers,
a lot of variables with that.Wi Fi is not easy. Josh
centers tell us easily how we canlearn more about your stuff. You can

(01:16:23):
see all my new stuff at tidbitsdot com. And you can check out
my books at take control books dotcom. Josh Centers, thanks for joining
us on the technight out Live.Thanks for having me Gene free from the
shackles of corporate America. We're theplace for independent thinkings gc N. Neighbors,

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Well, here's the Tech Night OwlLies with Gene Steinberg. We have Peter
Cohen. You still hang out atiMore, right, I sure do,

(01:21:19):
okay, and we're going to hangout for a little while here and talk
about stuff. Now, it's alwaysfascinating to look at the people who do
things that are negative towards Apple andto see, well, what's behind it.
So, for example, there's astory making the rounds now of a

(01:21:40):
class action lawsuit against Apple. Youknow, it's fairly normal to have a
class action lawsuit against Apple. Inthis case, it's because if you have
a sixteen gigabyte iPhone six iPhone sixplus any device using iOS eight, twenty
percent of that sixteen gigabytes has takenover by your operating system and overhead,

(01:22:02):
and to them, that's cheating.Really well, what's interesting about this is
that Apple is no different fundamentally thanany other smartphone maker. You know,
every smartphone has overhead because smartphones haveoperating systems and application software pre installed on
them that occupies some of that space. It's just that, you know,

(01:22:23):
Apple is the biggest target on theblock because they're the most profitable company,
and they're also the one who's mostlikely to garner headlines when these when this
stuff gets announced. So Apple isof course the subject of the uh of
the lawsuit. But Apple is notunique in this respect. Samsung and everybody
who makes an Android phone, anduh, you know Microsoft with its Windows

(01:22:44):
phones. Same story. Even dumbphones you know, don't have as much
storage capacity as their manufacturers purport themto have because again, overhead exists.
So it's it's not really unique toApple at all. Well in this particular
case, though, let's kind oflook at what's going on now. I
recall this article I read what acouple of years ago when the first surface

(01:23:05):
tablet came out thirty two gigabyte storage, roughly half was taken up by the
OS and the bundled apps. Sotherefore, if you bought thirty two gigabyte
device, you got sixteen and acouple of generations of those Samsung Galaxy devices
took an awful lot of space,far more than Apple, so you know,

(01:23:28):
let's all make it equal here.In fact, the biggest argument you
can make is why go after Appleif these people do worse? Well,
like I said, because Apple's itgot the biggest target on its back obviously,
And the only thing I'd like toknow here is I'm looking at the
charts supplied in these articles, andhow much space was iOS seven consuming?

(01:23:51):
Yeah, how much more space iseight? I'm not looking at the I'm
not looking at the charts, soI can't tell you that right off the
top of my head, Gene.But I can't tell you that a lot
of people complained when iosaight came outthis past fall that they didn't have enough
space on their devices to upgrade toiOS eight, And at least you know,

(01:24:14):
some of the information that's come outanecdotally suggests that iosad adoption has been
slower than iOS seven was partly becausepeople don't have the space to install iOS
eight on their devices. That's atleast in the case of people who are
doing over the air updates. Manypeople don't realize that if you connect your
iPhone or your iPad to your computer, whether it's a PC or a Mac,

(01:24:35):
as long as you've got iTunes installedon it, you can do an
operating system upgrade with absolutely no netchange to your device. In terms of
storage capacity, you don't need tohave the five or six or whatever it
is gigabytes four point seven. Ithink gigabytes free needed to do an operating
system upgrade on your device if youdo it over your computer. But not

(01:24:59):
everybody knows that. A lot ofpeople think that the only way of doing
one of these updates is to doit over the air, when you get
a message when your device is connectedover Wi Fi or LTE or whatever.
And that's partly Apple's fault because theysaid, look, you can update your
devices without hooking it up to iTunes. But they did send out emails.
Let's grant them that explaining this.But I think it would have been better

(01:25:23):
if they put up a prompt sayingI'm sorry, there's not enough space to
install your OS upgrade, but ifyou hook it up to iTunes, you
should be able to install that upgrade. I completely agree. I think that
Apple. If Apple deserves any kindof admonishment here, it's exactly for that
reason that they didn't do a verygood job of articulating what people's options were

(01:25:46):
when they upgrade. And you've justgot to bear in mind that the average
consumer is not technically sophisticated. Itdoesn't necessarily pay that much attention to either
system prompts or to emails that theyget. Even legit emails from Apple may
not garner the same kind of attentionthat you know, an email from from
a friend or relative might, Soyou know, it's it's it's unfortunately,

(01:26:11):
you know the caveat Amptor. Butyou know, I think that that that
probably has a little bit to dowith what's spurring this this lawsuit too.
Well. Their allegation here is thatthe reason Apple does this they deliberately made
iOS eight bigger because then they cansell you storage space and iCloud. Now
that's ridiculous. So anyway, Iwas looking up this. Of course,

(01:26:33):
you get five gigabytes storage free withiCloud. If you are losing a gigabyte
or more extra space because perhaps iOSeight is bloated and five gigabytes isn't enough,
you can subscribe to twenty for ninetynine cents a month or eleven dollars
in eighty eight cents a year.So is Apple engaged in a secret,

(01:26:55):
nefarious plot to exact eleven dollars andeighty eight cents in some description rates for
each year that you own your iPhonebecause there's not enough space on it.
Well, tell me that's what they'retelling us. Of course, of course
that isn't the case, Gene,because you know, you are perfectly capable
of operating your phone without having aniCloud account at all, and in fact
some people do. The lawsuit theallegation in the lawsuit is completely spurious,

(01:27:21):
and I would be very surprised ifApple has any trouble batting this away based
on that alone. But having saidthat, Apple is in the interest or
is interested in selling services. Youknow, in iCloud is a service that
it offers, and it is interestedin having people invest in iTunes, you
know. For my part, Ihave the two hundred per year plan for

(01:27:44):
mine because I have a family accountand I like to store a lot of
stuff in the cloud, so itmade more sense for me to do that
than to have the twenty gigabyte planor the free five gigabyte plan. But
many people are perfectly capable of survivingwith five gigabytes on their own. Where
it gets difficult is when you havemore than one device that you're trying to
back up. If you've got aniPhone and an iPad on the same account,

(01:28:08):
or an iPod Touch on the sameaccount, that's where you can start
running into overhead very quickly. Andif you take a lot of photos and
so on. But again a lotof this comes back to caveat MTUR.
You have to be an educated consumer. And as much as we like to
laud Apple, for being more userfriendly than perhaps some of the competition,
And that's certainly true. Apple isstill a company that's in business to make

(01:28:30):
money, and iCloud is one waythat it's found that it can make money.
So faulting Apple for figuring out howto make money at iCloud, I
think is foolish and is like Isaid, spurry is as far as a
lawsuit is concerned. Now I'll showyou how wealthy Peter Cohen is. It's
three dollars and ninety nine cents amonth for two hundred gigabytes. That's right,

(01:28:50):
extra storage. That's right. Mypaychecks from Apple, my kickbacks from
Apple for promoting their products are allI need to pay for that. Well,
you see here. The way yousave money is if you don't subscribe
to Tech Night Out Plus, whichis five dollars a month. But if
you do, it's plus plus dottechnightou dot com five bucks a month.

(01:29:13):
You get the ad free version ofthis radio show at a higher resolution.
Now, Apple isn't the cheapest withcloud storage, but that's pretty good.
Three dollars of ninety nine cents amonth. If you want a terrabyte,
it's nineteen ninety nine a month.You get a better deal with Microsoft,
though. For ten dollars a month, you get five licenses for Office on
a macro pc or a tablet andor a tablet includes both and a terabyte

(01:29:38):
of storage for each user ten dollarsa month from Microsoft. Apple has never
been terrific on the value proposition sidefor its cloud services. Let me say
that right up front. You know, I don't think that Apple. I
don't think that iCloud is a verygood value an you compare it to the
competition. But it's a necessary evilif you are bought into the Apple ecosystem,

(01:30:00):
use Apple devices, and you relyon their cloud services in order to
communicate. And it's easier to dothat to integrate your devices with iCloud,
your Apple devices with iCloud, thanit is to do it with OneDrive for
Microsoft, or to do it withDropbox, or to do it with Google's
cloud services. You know, it'sit's the home field advantage that Apple has,

(01:30:21):
for better or for worse, forbetter or for worse, this is
the Tech Night Alive. I'm GeneSteinberg, He's Peter Cohen. He hangs
out at iMore dot com. We'recommon a moment headlines, suspensions, FCC
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happen next. While listening to theTech Nightisle Live with Gene Steinberg, we
have Peter Cohen joining us for thefirst show of the year and having sitting

(01:35:17):
side by side virtually at different timesand different time zones with our friend Josh
Centers. So we're really having afascinating session here talking about that crazy lawsuit
about Apple being engaged in a secretplot to get you to buy iCloud storage
space at eleven dollars and eighty eightcents per year by shortchanging you on space

(01:35:39):
on your iPhone or iPad. Nowthere's a survey, and there have been
several surveys coming out about how manypeople really want to buy an eyewatch.
So we have yet another survey froma place called quarts dot com, which
is using survey Monkey to get thispoll. Let me give it to you.
The news are the reason else ofiPhone owners? How likely are you

(01:36:03):
to buy an Apple Watch in thenext twelve months? Two point two percent
say extremely likely, three point twopercent say very likely. So therefore it's
like five point four percent being reasonablylikely to get one, somewhat likely,
fourteen point three percent not so likely, eighteen point nine percent not at all

(01:36:26):
likely, sixty one point four percentall right, And I guess part of
the issue here is that maybe it'stoo EXPENSI if you look at a second
survey here showing the ideal prices,as soon as it's less than two hundred
dollars, sixty point one percent wouldsay that's the most they'd spend for one.

(01:36:47):
Apple starts that product at three fortynine, So maybe that's a factor.
Well, first of all, Iwould posit that survey Monkey is not
at all a scientific way to conducta survey, you think, so,
I I would question the veracity ofthe data that we are looking at altogether.
Secondly, it's a product that doesn'texist in the world yet, so

(01:37:09):
the people who are responding to thesurvey or first of all a very self
selecting group. You know, they'repeople who actually know what the Apple Watch
is ostensibly. Thirdly, this isbefore Apple has spent a dime to market
the product, before a single reviewhas been posted of the product, before
anything is really fundamentally known about theproduct other than it's been announced. So

(01:37:31):
personally, I think that this informationis complete garbage. Speaking of garbage surveys,
there was one that was publicized ina lot of places about the claim
that Samsung had a higher customer satisfactionrating than Apple, and this was really
given a lot of publicity. Andif you look at the figures, supposedly
Apple's satisfaction rating went down like twopoints or something. And the two factors

(01:37:56):
here that one has to consider.Number one is normal surveys have a margin
of error for several points plus orminus, so the difference is within the
margin of error. Second, thesurvey was taken last May, four months
before the iPhone six came out,but that wasn't mentioned. Indeed, indeed,
it's a case of cherry picking datato make Apple seem worse than it

(01:38:18):
is. And you know, obviouslySamsung trumping Apple and any kind of customer
service or consumer satisfaction survey is boundto elicit headlines and lots of link backs.
And that's what it's all about thesedays, is getting the clickbait title,
you know, to get people tolink to you and to click on
the story. So that's a muchjuicier headline than five month old survey or

(01:38:40):
six month old survey. No,actually, sorry, seven month old survey
shows out of date data. Soit's like the song if I linked to
you, will you link to me? Pretty much? Yeah? Okay,
more stuff here and more wackiness.I was looking over some stories about Samsung
beating Apple, and this starts backin twenty eleven, where the one publication

(01:39:04):
had ten reasons why iPhone five willbe beaten by Samsung, then three ways
Samsung Galaxy S six, which isnot released yet, by the way,
is going to crush Apple. WhyApple is losing ground to the Samsung brand,
which comes from Forbes magazine in Januaryof last year. The real reasons

(01:39:25):
Samsung is beating Apple from April twentythirteen. Now I understand, in no
quarter has Samsung sold more of anysingle model than Apple has of an iPhone.
And in fact, Samsung had adreadful twenty fourteen by all objective measures,
you know, with sales below projectionson its smartphone lines. Exactly,

(01:39:50):
it's wishful thinking from you know,tech journalists and others pundits, you know,
tech pundits and even some institutional investorswho are trying to make hay where
none exists. And what's interesting hereis the fact that they publish these articles.
They're called out on the carpet bya lot of us, certainly the

(01:40:10):
people who are most active, likeMachelope from Macworld magazine, Daniel Aaron Dilger
of Apple and Cider I do it, Peter does a lot of us correct
these mistakes. And it's kind oflike finding four pinocchios in a political comment
by the Washington Post they give someonea four Pinocchio's rating, or a Politifa

(01:40:31):
act has a pan Sei on Firerating. Same as in the political world.
When these pundits are found to bewrong consistently, year after year,
month after month. They never apologize. No, they never do because they
can get away with it over andover again. It's sad, but it's
the way of the world, Iguess right. Never admit your mistakes.
No, absolutely, that's the biggestmistake you can make if you want to

(01:40:55):
keep your credibility. Never apologize foranything. And the bigger issue there,
which is I guess just as importanthere, is that one journalist sees the
lie published and they think there's somecredibility to it Mike Heavens Forbes magazine,
and they repeat it, they quotewithout comment, and it just gets spread

(01:41:15):
on and on. Well, considerthe source. Forbes has become the biggest
purveyor of anti Apple garbage out there, you know, and the reason why
is because Forbes doesn't actually do anyjournalistic work anymore. You know, with
precious exceptions, a lot of theForbes quote unquote contributors are people with a
very strong self interest to trash Apple. So what is the self interest to
cater to advertisers who are not Apple, well, you know, to generate

(01:41:40):
publicity for themselves. You know,these people are by and large not tech
journalists. They're not employed as journalists. They've got other businesses on the side,
and they're trying to drum up somesort of visibility for themselves. And
you know, being a Forbes quoteunquote contributor is a very easy, relatively
high profile way to do that,especially when you can get linked to from

(01:42:01):
other sources. The Forbes name usedto carry cachet, but it should not
anymore. The Forbes name has beendragged through the garbage over the past few
years. We're not going to talkabout the political comments from Malcolm Forbes,
No, not at all. I'mnot talking about Malcolm Forbes at all.
I'm talking about the brand itself.Sure, Business insiders like that same thing.
Yeah, Henry blodget Over at BusinessInsider has made a career out of

(01:42:25):
trashing Apple at every opportunity and writingjust things that are plain wrong about Apple.
But you know, again, neverapologize and never admit when you're wrong.
More interesting is when they repeat thelies over and over again, year
after year, even though it's shownto be disproven. Even the face of
where Apple is actually doing something reallyreally good and having really superb financial results,

(01:42:48):
it's always going to be the negativespeaking of negatives. Well, what's
the what's the Joseph Gerbels quote?If you repeat a lie often enough,
it becomes the truth. Okay,there is a Nazi connection to that,
folks. Absolutely, yeah, Okay, we're not saying Business Insider is run
by Nazis. Just people, no, just people who espouse their philosophy,

(01:43:09):
that's all. And they espouse aphilosophy even when it's proven to be totally
wrong. And I won't get intosupply side economics. Let's go to some
other issues here. So another survey, boyd, We've got surveys here showing
that tablet activations for the Howiday quarterwere down over the previous year, whereas

(01:43:30):
fablet activations were much much higher.So are we expecting them to see evidence
of a slowdown in iPad sales thatquarter? Well, I wouldn't be surprised.
We've been seeing a slow down iniPad sales, so protractor slowdown in
iPad sales for quite a while.The difference is that Apple was able to
make up for it. I thinkpartly be through sales of the iPhone six

(01:43:51):
plus, which is very very popular. I mean almost everywhere I turn out,
if I see somebody with a fablet, they've got an iPhone six plus,
you know, compared to let's say, a Galaxy Note for or some
other large, large format cell phones. So Tim Cook has said in the
past when it comes to iPad sales, when iPad sales were sort of cresting

(01:44:16):
and it appeared that iPads may havebeen impacting mac sales, Tim Cook has
said in the past that he didn'tmind, you know, the cannibalization as
long as they were buying Apple productsis fine. And I'm sure that Apple
senior management feels the same way aboutiPad sales versus iPhone six plus sales.
As long as iPhone six plus salesare strong and certainly stronger than the competition,

(01:44:42):
they're not going to mind if iPadsales are waning. But iPad sales
have been waiting for a while.You know, there's a lot of irrational
exuberance, if you'll pardon the phrase, about the future of tablet sales based
on Apple's iPad sales. But youknow, it's proven over and over again,
at least in some cases, peopledon't buy iPads the same way that
they buy phones. You know,people are used to replacing their phones every

(01:45:06):
year or every two years, assoon as their contract is up, as
soon as they can get a new, cheap subsidized device. In our next
segment, we'll talk about what appearsto be the replacement rate for the iPad,
which is largely different With Peter Cohen, I'm Gene Steinberger in the Tech
Night on Live. We are thepremiere independent talk radio network, the Genesis

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to alkhavision dot com. Welcome backto the Tech Night out Live where you
never know what's going to happen next. And now here's Gene Steinberg by new

(01:48:00):
smartphone every year every two years regularupgrade cycle. Apple certainly is benefiting with
incredible iPhone sales and profits and everything. iPads though obviously live by a different
upgrade cycle. Peter Cohen, whatdo we know so far? Well,
we know specifically as far as theholiday season is concerned, and that's what

(01:48:23):
we were talking at during our lastsegment. Full sized tablets. About eleven
percent of activated devices devices that wereactivated over the holiday season are full sized
tablets and nets, down year overyear seventeen percent last year, eleven percent
this year thirteen percent of new deviceswere quote unquote fablets. Those are devices

(01:48:43):
including the iPhone six. We alsoknow that more than half of the device
is activated during the week of Christmasitself were made by Apple. Fifty one
percent of those devices were activated weremanufactured by Apple. Samsung was way behind
in second place with eighteen percent,and Nokia dropped off to six percent I
think in third place. So Appleis still dominating this past quarter in terms

(01:49:06):
of new device activations. As faras fablets are concerned versus tablets, tablets
don't have the same refresh rate thatfablets do because tablets aren't cell phones their
independent computers. People don't replace theirtablets, their iPads, or their kindles
or their Google tablets, their Androidtablets nearly as frequently as they do their

(01:49:26):
phones. Because they don't use themin the same way. They will get
as many years out of them asthey can. Just anecdotally speaking, I've
got a third generation iPad, thefirst retina display iPad, which was only
available for about six months in twentyeleven. I'm still using it, you
know. I haven't replaced it withan iPad Air two or an iPad Many
three yet because it still works forme. It still does what I needed

(01:49:48):
to do. When it's no longerfunctional, when it's no longer capable of
taking new operating system software or doingthe things that I need to do with
it, I'll replace it, butI'm in no hurry to replace it.
Compare that to my iPhone. I'vegot an iPhone six. You know,
I upgrade those as quickly as Ican because I need for my job.
I admit that I need the latestin iPhone technology, but I also want

(01:50:09):
the latest in iPhone technology because youknow, it's it's something that is in
my pocket every day. My sisterin law has a third generation iPad and
we have a review sample of theiPad Air two, so I've had a
chance to compare the two side byside, and undeniably, the iPad AIR
two is faster, subjectively, certainlywith the zooming effects in iOS seven and

(01:50:34):
iOS eight. Certainly it's thinner,Certainly it's lighter, But the difference in
terms of just general usability otherwise isnot so significant as to say I have
the third generation iPad, I've gotto upgrade it. Yeah, I think
some of the changes in this generationiPad are esoteric enough that it makes it

(01:50:55):
kind of a tough sell for somepeople. I mean, touch idea is
great. Touch idea is something thatI wanted to see from the original iPad
air. But touch idea is somethingthat you can live without when it comes
right down to it. Apple Payis terrific as well, you know,
in terms of being able to payfor stuff on websites. Say, it's
not like you can walk into astory and use your iPad air or two
with Apple Pay, like you can'twith the iPhone six or iPhone six plus.

(01:51:15):
But it's still there. But youknow, twenty percent faster processor speed
on the A eight and some ofthe other enhancements under the hood of the
iPad air not really that big adeal, you know. The one thing
that Apple has done to kind ofsweeten the pot was to double the amount
of available storage in the mid rangemodel without changing the price. So you
can get sixty four gigs of storagefor what you used to pay for thirty

(01:51:38):
two. And I think that that'sa good thing. I think that the
sixteen gig model is strictly there toupsell people to the sixty four. I
don't think the sixteen gig model isworth it. For a lot of people
who are going to be doing alot with their iPads. But it's a
gradual evolution, and it's the sortof thing where you know, people will
buy new iPads as they find newreasons to Apple's definitely got to improve its

(01:52:01):
feature set with each successor generation tokind of convince people, especially people who
are using older devices like me,that it's worth the winned upgrade. I
like to see side by side multitasking, which may take a more powerful processor,
and that's I think one of thekey missing features of the iPad if
you want to use it for productivity. I mean, I take a look

(01:52:23):
at that thing, and I say, what could I do with that iPad
that I also do on my Macnow? And can I do it almost
as flexibly? And I can't.Yes, I've tried accessory keyboards. I
have one here now, an ultrathin keyboard from Logitech, and the Logitech
makes some pretty decent input devices.They make the Harmony remotes, which are

(01:52:45):
pretty good, but the keyboard didn'tknock me out. I still can't see
this iPad for productivity. You know, when I got an iPad in twenty
ten, I tried desperately to kindof develop a productivity workflow that made sense
for me because I wanted to usethat iPad instead of using my clunky MacBook

(01:53:08):
that I had at the time.And I tried keyboards, and I tried
different cases, and I tried allsorts of things, and I understand that
there's a very viable niche for peoplewho want to hook up their iPad to
a keyboard, But you know,fundamentally, it's still a touch device.
Fundamentally, doing things on the iPad, some things anyway, are much more
difficult than doing them on a MacBook. You know. Copying and pasting content

(01:53:30):
from one application or one screen toanother, one one document to another,
much more difficult and arduous to doon an iPad than it is to do
on a mac, you know.And my epiphany was going to Macworld Expo
that following January or whatever. Itwas walking into the press area and seeing

(01:53:51):
a whole bunch of my colleagues usingMacBook airs, eleven inch MacBook airs,
and going, that's what I shouldhave gotten. I went home and I
ordered one almost right away. Itjust all of a sudden made sense to
me that this was the machine thatI should have had instead of the iPad.
You know, I sell these thingson the weekends. I work at
an Apple retailer near where I live, and I don't try to talk our

(01:54:15):
customers who come in thinking about keyboardsand other accessories for their iPads out of
it. But I do try toqualify what they're trying to do very carefully,
because it's very easy to get veryfrustrated with that because the device just
does not work in the same waythat people are accustomed to a computer working

(01:54:35):
when it comes to the things thatI sort of that I just described,
So you know, I'm not soldon the iPad as an overall productivity tool.
It doesn't work. I don't eventhink it works as gracefully as say
a Surface Pro three does when itcomes to the productivity stuff. I think
that that's an area that Apple shouldreally work on for iOS nine, if

(01:54:55):
it's not already well. There hadbeen rumors that iOS eight would have side
by side multitasking later that had beendeferred to a future version of iOS eight
now maybe not till iOS nine.Now. The thing I worry about here
is the fact that you could takeone of the Mac classics from what nineteen
eighty nine, which has a smallerscreen, by the way than the full

(01:55:19):
size iPad, and you can domultitasking there with MultiFinder. So you think
Apple has enough resources and a eightx processor to make it happen on the
iPad AIR two. Well, I'msure that it does. But the question
is whether or not the overall userinterface. And you know, for example,

(01:55:40):
you've been able to do You've beenable to have multiple user accounts on
max for many years. That's somethingyou still can't do on an iPad.
Is because the iPad's fundamentally incapable ofdoing it. No, I don't think
so. It's just because Apple reallyhasn't tailed the operating system to do that
yet. So we need to separatethe functionality of the device from the design
of the operating system. Well,is that where Apple takes the next direction?

(01:56:02):
Is that one of the key factorshere, let's look at it that
maybe is slowing iPad sales. Thatpeople can use them perfectly fine to watch
videos and play some games and thingslike that consumption. But even though there
are some really credible apps for productivity, they're limited by the way the iPad

(01:56:25):
is set up. I'm thinking especiallywith office for iPad, because you can
do quite a few things, quitea few of the capabilities that are meaningful
of the desktop versions of Office,but you're very much limited by the way
Apple has organized the filesystem and it'smultitasking for iPad. Well, let's face
it, Apple's kind of taking thestops out of the operating system in terms

(01:56:48):
of the file system. Specifically whenit comes to iCloud drive. You know,
iCloud drive has really changed things now. iCloud Drive is very much work
in progress. It's something that wasintroduced with IOSA, it's something that's built
into Yosemite as well, but it'sstill something that we're still trying to work
the kinks out of and get everythingin place for. But it is a

(01:57:11):
very promising way of making sure thatyour iPad can access five, that you
can access individual files on your iPadwithout having them siloed specifically to the apps
that are being used. We havePeter Cohen joining us. I'm Gene Steinberg
in the Tech Night Out Live firstgame Attack of the Rocoids and it was

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(02:01:32):
one A five five nine oh fivemy TV. We'd like to hear from
you. If you have a commentor question about the tech night ol Live,
please send it to news at technightowldot com. That's news at tech
nightol dot com. If you'd liketo discuss today show with fellow night owl's,

(02:01:56):
visit our community forums at forum dottech nightol dot com. Do's forum
dot technight l dot com. Solet's get back to the limitations of the
file system for iPad. I'm GeneSteinberg. You're in the tech night Alive.
We've got Peter Cohen here a reminderplus dot technightol dot com is the

(02:02:18):
place to go. P l usdot technightl dot com to subscribe to our
technight olt Plus service get an adfree version, higher resolution version of the
show for just five bucks a monthfifty dollars a year. Okay, Peter.
So the second part here, ofcourse, is that the iCloud drive

(02:02:39):
is being therefore used as the filesystemfor the iPad. Yeah, the de
facto filesystem. It's not the sameas having a completely exposed filesystem like you
do on a Mac or on aWindows PC, but it gets you the
functionality that you need without actually exposingthe raw filesystem, which you can't do
on an iPad unless you jail breakin. You know. The iCloud drive

(02:03:00):
enables you to do things like sharefiles in between applications, gives you a
place to store your applications in away that you can access them not only
from your iPad but also from yourMacintosh or from another iCloud connected device.
So it is definitely key element ofthat functionality. You know. Apple has
this knack for listening to users,listening to what users are describing as their

(02:03:24):
needs and not necessarily providing what they'reasking for, which in this case was
I want, you know, anindependent file system, but that functionality without
sacrificing Apple's own security requirements or limitationsto keep the data on your device secure.
Okay, so the choice one haswhen they go out is to take

(02:03:45):
their notebook computer like a MacBook Airor a MacBook Pro or a MacBook Pro
with threaten a display, or takethe iPad and maybe an accessory keyboard.
But what does Apple have to doto sum it up to make the iPad
more of the device that you takewith you instead of the MacBook Air or
can they do it? It's notjust, of course, the keyboard.

(02:04:08):
It's making the multitasking more useful,side by side multitasking, that sort of
thing. Maybe doing more with afile system. If you're on the road
and you don't want to use allthe bandwidth because you have a cellular connection,
do you really want to have todepend on iCloud for it? Well,
I think you've just articulated to answeryour question. I think you articulated

(02:04:28):
in asking the question a few ofthe important things that I think that app
I would like to see Apple doto approve the usability the iPad for productivity.
One thing is make it more independentof having to actually touch the screen.
You know, if I buy akeyboard accessory, or if I use
a keyboard with it, I'd liketo keep my fingers on the keyboard instead
of having to break that plane andcontinue to touch the screen in order to

(02:04:51):
do things like copy and paste text. Improve multitasking, I think is key.
You know, other usability tweaks alongthe same level I think would be
really important. The question is whetheror not Apple even feels like that's an
important thing for the iPad to do. You know. The fact of the
matter is the MacBook does all thisand more so. Whether you get a
MacBook Air, a MacBook Pro,or an iMac macminy, MacPro, whatever

(02:05:14):
Mac device you get, you've gotthis multifunctional device that's a general purpose computer
which has this fantastically easy to useoperating system that is enormously flexible. And
maybe that's enough, you know,maybe it's enough to push people to buy
an eight hundred and ninety nine dollarslaptop instead of a five hundred dollars tablet.
If that's the sort of stuff thatthey want to do. Maybe that's

(02:05:35):
a good dividing line between the iPadand the MacBook Air. I'm not really
sure what's in Apple's head as faras the future of the iPad is concerned.
But you know, if we aregoing to see the iPad improves a
productivity device, I think that Applecould actually take a couple of lessons from
what Microsoft is doing with the SurfacePro three, because that is a device

(02:05:59):
that is aimed square at people whoare interested in productivity, who want the
flexibility of a tablet with the functionalityof a laptop, and they may be
doing a little bit more in thatrespect than Apple has been doing with the
iPad. But the problem always hasbeen with these convertible devices is that when
you start mixing a keyboard with havingto reach up to the screen back and

(02:06:19):
forth, that's very uncomfortable. It'seither one or the other. So you
should definitely, if you choose touse a keyboard, be able to do
most of your navigation on that keyboardand only have to use the touch screen
rarely. I completely agree with thatgene. It's what I call breaking the
plane when you have to take yourhands off of when you're using your MacBook.

(02:06:44):
Let's think about this for a moment. When you're using your MacBook,
you never have to touch the screenfor anything. In fact, touching the
screen doesn't do anything. You keepyour fingers on the keyboard, and when
you want to move the cursor,you just simply adjust your finger to move
a track pad which moves a cursoron the screen that keeps your hands at
the same on the same horizontal plane. And it's just it's a nice usability

(02:07:08):
feature. When you start doing thesemixed tablet or mixed use devices, these
tablets with keyboards, you end uphaving to take your finger off the off
the keyboard and reach the screen todo something. And it's just it's a
conceptual difference. It's a user interfacechange that I don't like, that I'm
not comfortable with and can't be convincedto like when I've tried to use them.

(02:07:29):
So for me, it's just,you know, it's it's something I
can't overcome. Yes, it's thetoaster of and again and the refrigerator,
Yes, the refrigerator, toaster,that's the whole thing. That's the thing
that I think. It's where Microsoftfails, even though they've done good things
with the Surface Pro. But ifyou're looking at a surface Pro, a
MacBook Air is cheaper. Yeah,absolutely, you know, the MacBook Air

(02:07:51):
is eight ninety nine, and that'swhy you see the surface pro advertised against
the MacBook Air by Microsoft. Youknow, Microsoft feels like it's got a
a legitimate case to make against theMacBook Air, So more power to them.
I guess. I don't know howtheir advertising has been doing, but
I don't see any shortage in MacBookAir sales, so I don't think that

(02:08:13):
we've been losing a lot of salesto that. And we have to look
at this argument too, here aboutpeople when they come time to upgrade their
max, whether they want to goto an iPad or not. My son
Grayson has this dilemma right now.He has a two thousand and eight black
MacBook that he got as a graduationpresent. How time flies when he's having
fun. So now he's twenty eightyears old, he's on his own.

(02:08:35):
He lives in Madrid, Spain,and on that MacBook, he's had everything
replaced at least once, sometimes twice. We had two extensions to the Apple
Care coverage because so many things hadto be fixed on it. But some
time or other it's going to benecessary to get a new one. So
he has to make that decision.And he's saying, you know, maybe
I should just get an iPad.And I pointed out to him, Grayson,

(02:08:58):
you do a lot of writing.Do you really want to depend on
a touchscreen or on an accessory keyboard? Is that what you want just to
save a few hundred dollars? Andwhat was his response? I don't think
he's decided full yet. I thinkit's a very important issue for a lot
of people to consider, and Idon't think that enough people give it consideration,

(02:09:18):
because I know that at least inmy own case. And again I
admit that this is anecdotal. I'mnot talking about any kind of scientific survey,
but just in my own experience sellingthese things on the weekends, I
will get customers who buy iPads thinkingthat they're going to replace a laptop.
They come in and they're typically switchingfrom the PC. Oh, I've had
enough of viruses, I've had enoughmalware. I can't stand Windows anymore.
I'm going to get an iPad.I'm going to put all that behind me.

(02:09:41):
Okay, well, the iPad doesn'twork just like your laptop did.
But you know, if it's whatyou want, then great, you know,
sell them the iPad and then they'reback in the store. Two weeks
later going I can't do this,I can't do that. Doing this is
much more difficult. They're just notaccustomed to the user experience that they get
when they get a tablet. Soit's an important consideration. Having said that,
I know a lot of people whodo long form writing on the iPad.

(02:10:03):
My daughter as an artist and shedoes a lot of artwork on the
iPad, uses it almost exclusively,and she does really brilliant job at what
she's drawing because she's a custom ofthe interface and can use it as a
contact creation device. We have PeterCohen joining us on Gene Steinberg. You're
in the technitow life. We areAmerica's largest independently owned communications network. Jean

(02:10:33):
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(02:14:45):
What's going to happen next? Younever know? So, as Peter
Cohen said, his daughter does artworkon an iPad, and she's able to

(02:15:07):
do all sorts of creative work.And I think for drawing and illustrations,
Peter Cohen, an iPad probably doesa pretty good job. I think when
it comes to writing and stuff likethat, not so. I wonder about
editing these audio files right now.I edit these audio files on my Mac
using a program called sound Studio,but also doing some work in Amadeas Pro,

(02:15:31):
and there are a number of reallycredible audio apps. Now with the
iPad, I can't think of away to really make my workflow as smooth.
I can do a ten minute secondof the show in fifteen sixteen minutes
a touch up before it goes tothe network. I have tried to figure
out whether I could do anything nearthat with an iPad, and you know

(02:15:54):
what, I don't think, So, you know, it's interesting Apple certainly
hasn't graced the iPad with the samelevel of professional content creation products that it
has on the Mac side. Youknow, there's Garage Band, for example,
which comes on the iPad, butthere's no version of Logic for the
iPad. There's Final Cut pro forthe Mac, but you only get iMovie

(02:16:16):
with the iPad. And you know, I think there's a general assumption from
Apple that if you want to doserious content creation, you're going to do
it on the Mac. For everybodyelse you know there and but that's not
to say that there haven't been lotsof third party applications that have tried to
fill the gap there. And therecertainly are a lot of credible third party
production tools for content creators, whetherthey're artists or audio engineers or musicians.

(02:16:41):
And there are a lot of texteditors. There are text editors aimed at
people who write their text editors aimedat people who code all that for the
iPad. But fundamentally, you know, the iPad is from Apple, a
touch device, and I, forone, am not as comfortable at typing
on a flat glass screen as Iam using a keyboard, and that's why

(02:17:03):
I do most of my text inputwith a keyboard. Your my ledge me
very you know. I've sat nextto journalists at Apple events who have live
blogged the entire event, written upwhatever blog coverage that they're going to do
on their iPad on their iPad screen. More power to them. It's just
not a workflow that I can getaround. I'm kind of in the same
boat that you are, a gene, but different strokes for different folks.

(02:17:24):
I'm not going to say that myway is right and your way is wrong.
It's just not a way that I'mparticularly comfortable working. But I wonder
how that impacts sales. Whether thatis a sticking point with some people.
It's not just the people who boughtthe iPad and maybe keep it longer than
anyone expected. It is should Ibuy another iPad? Should I buy a
Mac next time? Should I buyan iPhone six plus? What should I

(02:17:46):
do? And? As Apple makingthe case now, remember this is another
fact we haven't gotten into yet.Apple made this deal with IBM and involves
creating custom software and marketing primarily theiPhone and the iPad. So is Apple
hoping that iPad penetration and the enterprisewill overcome a possible deficiency in iPad adoption

(02:18:09):
among consumers. Well, iPad adoptionamong consumers has definitely tapered off. That's
why we've seen the drop in salesthat we have. But i'pad penetration and
enterprise is fantastic, and Apple's tryingto a buoy that through its relationship with
IBM, which is already yielding somefruit. And I'm certain that Apple is
going to continue to see incremental salesfrom that well into the future. What

(02:18:31):
about the rumors of a twelve inchiPad, an iPad pro, or whatever
the heck it is, I forone of very interested in that as a
content creation device. You know,we've been talking about artists, we've been
talking about musicians. I think there'scertainly a case for them to be made
for a twelve inch iPad or alarger format iPad, something to replace like
a whack Them centique tablet on thedesktop, especially as iosay It in Yosemite

(02:18:54):
has really kind of blared the lineon what you can do on the Mac
versus what you can do on aniOS. If Apple continues that trend with
iOS nine and with whatever comes after, yessemity, I think the sky's the
limit as far as the larger formatiPad is concerned. Well, let's see
how that turns out. But thecritics, now, we're going to look
at the sales in January of theiPad and if it's less as it appears

(02:19:18):
to be, and of course we'rejust assuming things were, assuming facts with
very little evidence, they're going tocomplain quite a bit. Let's look at
twenty fifteen and the product that wasmentioned by rumor sites but by nobody else,
and what is that? That,of course is the one the only

(02:19:39):
Apple TV. And I have anApple TV where the remote has flaked out.
Well, you can always get anew remote. Yeah, it's nineteen
dollars where you can download the remoteapp from the App Store and use your
iPhone either that or I use myLogitech Harmony. That's not the point.
The point is here is that it'sjust one of the things that broke this
week. I mean, I hadthey say everything comes in threes, so

(02:20:03):
I had a problem also with mydesk phone, which is a combination wired
handset and portaphone two line system,and one of our portaphones went bad this
week, so that went bad fora while. We thought the car had
a problem, which was weird whenand this is common for you, but

(02:20:24):
not here in Arizona, the temperaturego down to lower than forty degrees,
like thirty five. The first timeyou turn the engine on, you kick
the engine on, you stick thefoot on the brake, and you put
the car in gear. It doesn'tgo. You have to stop. The
engine started again, and then itworks. So the dealer is trying to
figure that out because it only happenswhen the car has been out at night

(02:20:48):
and the ambient temperature is below thirtyfive or forty degrees, right, okay,
so things happening in threes and theother one. Of course, I
bought a present for my wife Barbara, pair of shoes they ship not just
the wrong shoes with the wrong size, Oh lovely, So you know she's
a little girl. She wears asize six, they send her a size

(02:21:09):
eight. She wears heels, theysend her flats. All this happened in
a week. Well sounds like alousy week, right, But this will
be a new week by the timethe show's aired. There we go,
all right, Apple TV. Let'sget back to Apple TV a little bit
more here. So what direction isApple going to take? This is the
big argument. Some people were sayingApple wants to make a TV set,

(02:21:31):
But even if they chose to makea TV set, they can still make
an Apple TV for everybody else whodoesn't want to buy a TV set.
Well, you know we've talked aboutthis before, Gene, I don't see
why Apple would make a TV.There's no money to be made in televisions.
They're commodity items. You know they'regetting The manufacturing of them is getting
cheaper and cheaper. China dominates theactual set production, and there's very little

(02:21:52):
margin to be made in it,and low margin products are not Apple specialty.
So I just don't understand why GeneMonster and his ilk are so fascinated
with the idea of Apple actually buildinga television. Certainly we are due for
a new Apple TV. We haven'tseen a fresh redesigned to Apple's Apple TV

(02:22:13):
peripheral in quite some time now,and I think the twenty fifteen is going
to be a big year for it. From everything that I've heard, the
sticking point isn't with Apple. Applehasn't had any problems developing new Apple or
new technology to put in the AppleTV. It's with content, and it's
with getting the content providers on thesame page with Apple in terms of contracts,
in terms of making their stuff availableto make it viable for Apple to

(02:22:39):
release a new Apple TV. Nowwe're starting to see some cracks in the
armor there. HBO, for example, has announced that it will be offering
its own programming a la carte awayfrom cable television subscriptions or satellite TV subscriptions,
beginning in twenty fifteen, and acouple of other content providers have also

(02:23:01):
jumped on board. The more wesee that, the more viable. I
think it is because people who buythe Apple TV, people who are really
interested in the Apple TV, areinterested in cutting the cord from their cable
company. They may only have acouple of channels that they watch with any
regularity, or they may only beinterested in getting content from a couple of

(02:23:22):
different content providers. But what they'rereally interested in doing is lowering that cable
bill. And when you're dropping twohundred bucks a month on cable, as
many people are, can understand whyyou know, that's a lot to be
paying, especially if you're subsidizing fivedifferent channels of ESPN and forty different golf
channels that you don't care about.Now you know what some of the cable
companies have done. They come upwith kind of a budget package where they

(02:23:46):
give you a subset of channels thata lot of people like to have,
probably mostly the basic and slightly enhancedcable. They add HBO, a decent
sized Internet package band, and theyput it together for price. Its a
lot less than the traditional two hundreddollars cable deal. Now that's a way

(02:24:09):
I guess to try to reduce thenumber of cord cutters. We'll get into
more of this in a moment withPeter Cohen. I'm Gene Steinberger in the
Tech Night. I live a littleright, a little left, but always
independent minded. The Genesis Communications Networkgc N. Neighbors, Are you tired

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to the Tech Night Isle Live withGenie Steinberg. You never know what's going

(02:28:50):
to happen. Next time back withthe final segment with Peter Cohen. I'm
Gene Steinberg. You're in the Technine l Ive. We're talking about Apple

(02:29:13):
TV, the possibility of what Appleis going to do. Now. One
thing that can happen even before weget to cord cutting, is for the
cable providers to give the content anApple to be like TVO where they give
you the DVR capability and the frontend plus whatever of their own content is
Yeah, that's true, and Ithink that one of the key features of

(02:29:33):
Apple TV all along on one ofApple's core strength is that the Apple TV
integrates very well with other Apple products. If you have a recent make of
a Macintosh, or if you've gotan iPad and an iPhone and it's starting
a fairly current version of the operatingsystem of iOS, then you get the
benefit of being able to stream contentfrom those devices onto your Apple TV too,
which turns the Apple TV not justinto a video viewing device, but

(02:29:56):
an extension of your home entertain system. You know, if you've got a
decent, decent set of speakers soakedup to your television, then you can
have a very nice airplay based soundsystem, for example, using iTunes or
using other applications, and there's alot of benefit to that if you're an
Apple TV customer. So that Ithink has been Apple strength for a very

(02:30:22):
long time with the Apple TV,although you know, other products like the
Amazon Fire TV have really come upfrom behind and have offered Apple a lot
stronger competition than it's had in thepast. You know, for a long
time it was just Apple versus Roku, and Roku was always kind of a
niche product. I don't think thatthat's the case anymore. I think that
Apple in twenty fifteen is really goingto have to fight for relevance to have

(02:30:46):
the Apple TV be the dominant waythat people can quote unquote cut the cord
from the cable company. And Rokuapparently is also outselling the Apple TV.
Also, lots of people buying theGoogle Chrome Cast. Now, the Chrome
Cast is such a simpled device that'sfar more complicated to use, but people
who are looking for price will doit. But I think most of the
people who buy these boxes really wantNetflix. Of course, Netflix is already

(02:31:09):
available on Apple TV, Roku,whatever device you have, you can get
Netflix, and that's why they buyit. But it's also available on a
lot of these new connected TV sets. They offer the Netflix, they offer
Amazon Instant Video, they offer HuluPlus, they offer all these extra services.
So is that one thing that's goingto also impact the market that the

(02:31:33):
TV makers are already in the act. Why do you need a separate box
when you can do it on yourTV set. Maybe the interface isn't quite
as pretty, but it's usable,no question. But that's the Apple secret
sauce. Apple's got to figure outa way to make the Apple TV a
more attractive option than these other choicesbecause relying on external content, relying on
content from Netflix, relying on contentfrom Hulu or Crackle or Country Roll or

(02:31:58):
any of the other services you canget through the Apple. Apple doesn't have
any exclusive arrangements with those other serviceproviders. That's stuff that you can get
by and large through other boxes,and in the case of the A box
like the Roku, you can geta lot more besides. So Apple's got
to make the option to get theApple TV even more attractive by building in

(02:32:18):
more unique capabilities to it than theother guys have and stuff that people who
have iOS and mac devices actually want. Now here's a big problem you see
with Roku. It has over twelvehundred channels, and the problem with any
of those things is you start addingall these channels and you get a very
complicated interface to deal with because you'vegot to manage not just one set of

(02:32:39):
content, but a dozen fifty twelvehundred. And maybe that's where Apple can
put their expertise into the game,which is how to integrate the content you
want without having to deal with somany different channels. Well, and that's
part of the problem. It's whatI think some academicians have referred to as
the tyranny or the paradox of choice. More choices you have, the more

(02:33:03):
paralyzed you can be by them.You know. It reminds me of that
Robin Williams movie from nineteen eighty four, Moscow on the Hudson, when he
plays a Russian circus clown, Ithink, who defects to America during the
height of the Cold War, andat one point he's in the grocery store.
He's been told by the family who'staking care of him in the United
States to go buy coffee, andhe goes down the coffee aisle expecting just

(02:33:24):
to see coffee, and sees allthese different brands and promptly has a panic
attack and passes out. You know, it's the same kind of story.
When you're faced with dozens or hundredsof different choices for entertainment, you can't
necessarily choose. And I think thatthat is part of the problem anyway,
that people have with cable television.I know, speaking from my own experience,
that's the problem that I have isthat I know that money that I'm

(02:33:45):
paying for cable is, at leasta significant portion of it, besides lining
comcasts pockets, is paying subsidization feesfor programming that I don't care about I
never watch esp I couldn't care lessabout golf. I don't watch any of
the channels in different languages because Englishis the only language I speak with any

(02:34:07):
fluency. So why should I beforced to pay whatever I pay, whether
it's five dollars or forty seven dollarsor more, to subsidize that programming that
I don't watch. That's why Iwant a la carte programming, and I
think that's why many people want ala carte programming, because when it comes
right down to it, maybe thereare only seven or eight channels that you
watch with any frequency and you justdon't care about the rest. So that's

(02:34:28):
why I'm saying that whatever Apple doeswith the Apple TV has to reflect some
unique capability for Apple users that isn'tgoing to be available on every other smart
television and every other box that Ican plug into an HDMI port on my
TV. And that's really, youknow, the secret sauce that Apple can
do better than anyone else as faras I'm concerned. One of the other

(02:34:52):
issues with a la carte versus bumblingis that the content providers give the licensing
to the Cape one satellite companies witha bundle. So, for example,
Comcast is licensing NBC, which isnot just NBC, it's USA Network,
it's Clue, it's also Sci FiChannel, it's several others, and they
say, here's a deal. Nowyou've got to take our ten channels.

(02:35:15):
So now the cable companies are payingfor ten channels. They have to therefore
market to you ten channels. Theycan't just buy each one with a separate
licensing fee from Comcast NBC. Soit gets to be very complicated. If
Apple can sort out that mess,maybe, as they've done with so many
different things with iOS abstract the wayyou get your content make it easier for

(02:35:37):
you to pick out what you wantregardless of where it comes from, which
is of course a problem because eachcompany wants to brand their own services.
You know, if you want towatch House of Cards, Netflix wants you
to know that your gun and Netflixto get that. If you want to
get something on Amazon Instant Video that'savailable exclusively with them, they want you
to know. And Apple has nodeal with them, of course, but

(02:35:58):
if they did, they want youto know getting it from them, just
like Hulu. Plus, they wantto have their branding involve, which is
where it makes it difficult to abstractthese content providers. At the end of
the day, I don't care wherethe content comes from. I just look
for the show, the movie.I want to watch House of Cards,
I want to watch NCIS Los Angeles. I want to watch any of these

(02:36:20):
shows. I don't care who givesit. That's right. It's all about
reducing the pain in getting the contentyou want. That's the big argument,
one of the things that Apple mayhave to find a way to solve.
But of course, if you aregoing to present content from different providers,
you have to make these deals,and they all are pretty difficult to deal

(02:36:43):
with. And I'm sure a comcastis one of the worst you've seen,
as I have these stories of peoplespending four hours on the phone either get
technical support or just to say no, take it off, turn it off.
It's awful. Peter Cohen, pleasetell our listeners where we can find
more of the great things you do. You can find me at iMore dot
com and on the social things atflarg F L A, R G H.

(02:37:07):
And by the way, we'll havea contest. Those who define what
Flarg means will win a prize.Would you like to do that again.
Whatever you guess is right, Ilike that. Hey. You can find
us on Twitter. We're known astech night Out. We're tech night Out
on Twitter. And if you wantto hear the ad free version with higher
resolution audio of the tech night OwLive, join tech night ol Plus go

(02:37:31):
to plus p l us dot technightou dot com. That's p l U
s plus dot tech nightou dot com. Five dollars a month about the cost
of a frappuccino, a small frappuccinofrom Starbucks. You can give up one
a month and join us, orfifty dollars a year. We also have
another radio show about UFOs and thingsthat go bump in the night, Call

(02:37:52):
of the Power Cast, and thisweek we have a fascinating episode where we
bring on this professor, doctor BenjaminZeller, who has a new book out
called Heaven's Gate America's UFO Religion.That's about this group of people back in
the nineties who thinking they were goingto be taken up by the Space Brothers
or someone committed suicide. Interesting socialstudy with doctor Benjamin Zeller there on the

(02:38:20):
paracast. You can find our webportal at tech nightoul dot com. With
episodes going back to two thousand andseven or two thousand and eight. Happy
New Year, my friend Peter Cohen, thanks for joining us on a Technight
Outlive. Happy New Year, Gene, and happy New Year to everybody who's
listening. The tech Night Owl Aliveis a copyrighting presentation of making the impossible

(02:38:46):
incorporated. We'll be back next week, same bad time, same bad shadow.

(02:39:16):
Keep it fresh with Aldi Super sixfresh fruit and vege offfers. This
week, Aubergines were seventy nine centnow forty nine cent each, black mushrooms
were one euro five now forty ninecent, and joya Apple six pack was
two seventy nine now one nine.Hungry for more see all Super six in
store, including large red onions andsalad tomatoes, plus juicy nectarines. Sweet

(02:39:39):
delivered fresh every day with a freshguarantee. Oh that's tasty. Go all
Aldi Wild stocks last

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