The $10 Million Workforce Experiment That Could Redefine Apprenticeships in America - Lindsay Blumer, CEO of WRTP | BIG STEP - The TechEd Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Matt Kirchner (00:00):
It's Matt Kirkner, your host for the
TechEd podcast. I don't knowwhere you're going to be on
December 9 through the 11th thisyear, but I know where I will
be. I'll be at the gaylordopryland in Nashville,
Tennessee, for a CTE career techvision. It's the largest annual
conference in the nation forcareer and technical educators.
And at vision, you will have theopportunity to build meaningful

(00:23):
professional connections witheducators and industry leaders,
expand your professionaldevelopment with hundreds of
concurrent sessions, workshopsand tours, ignite your
inspiration while you learn frominnovative keynote speakers and
leaders on the vision mainstage, explore the Career Tech
Expo with hundreds of exhibits,workshops and live

(00:44):
demonstrations. There will be somuch more at a CTE career tech
vision register by October 13 tosecure discounted rates for this
premier CTE conference. You'llfind the registration
page@careertechvision.com that'scareertechvision.com can't wait
to see you at this year's a CTEcareer tech vision. Welcome to

(01:10):
the TechEd podcast. I am yourhost, Greg Kirkner, where this
weekend, every week, we talkabout how we secure the American
Dream for the next generation ofSTEM and workforce talent. I'm a
huge believer by the way, thatthat endeavor is an and not an
or it's not. Do we do it in highschool, technical college,
community college, university,workforce training, workplace.

(01:31):
It is not whether we do it inone of those areas. It is that
we do it in all of them. We aregoing to talk to someone today
who is doing amazing, amazingthings in that workforce
training side, so a little bitseparate from formal and
traditional education, butnevertheless doing incredible
work and really important workin the area of apprenticeships,

(01:51):
in the area of workforcetraining. Really excited to have
this conversation with Lindsaybloomer. And Lindsay is the
president and CEO of wrtp, bigstep. You're gonna learn all
about that organization today onthis episode of The TechEd
podcast. Before the moment, letme welcome to the studio.
Lindsay, thank you so much forbeing with us. Thanks for having

(02:12):
me today. I appreciate it.
You've had just a really, reallydiverse background. You've done
a ton of work with nonprofits.
You've been in education, you'vebeen in workforce training. As
you think about that background,as you think about all the
different endeavors that you'vebeen involved in, is there a
common thread in your journey,and how did it lead to what
we're going to learn about todayis a really, really cool job as
the president and CEO of wrtp,big stuff.

Lindsay Blumer (02:34):
So you know, the through line throughout all of
my positions and my careerjourney has been at the center
impact, community impact. Howcan we pull the levers, whether
through workforce or supportservices or some other type of
thing, to ensure that ourstrategies are industry led,
worker centered, and that itwins for everybody when it comes

(02:55):
to building a community that'ssafe, that has workforce and
career opportunities and hasgreat economic development and
ultimately focuses on people andwhat we want our communities to
look like. So came through lotsof different positions, learning
that from all different angles.
So whether it's from thecommunications, the marketing,
the programming, theadministrative side, the
financial side, really helpedprepare me and I go all the way

(03:18):
back to growing up in a veteranfamily, a trades family that
really inspired me to find howwe can support our economy
through good workforce policy,through great training for
workers, and ensure that webuild the communities that we
want to see and live in.

It's amazing how that whatever environment we
grow up in has a huge way ofshaping our career interests and
what's important to us. Yousuggest growing up in a veteran
family and in a trade family.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat. Where'd you grow up, and
what members of your family werea veteran and serving our
country and also by working inthe trade.

So I grew up in southern Wisconsin. Here
throughout my life, I've workedall over the country, but grew
up here in Wisconsin. My dad wasa Vietnam veteran who came back
and on the GI, Bill decided togo to a technical college. He
was welding for being a veteran.

Unknown (04:06):
Yeah, absolutely. Which Technical College up in Chippewa
Falls? Yeah? Awesome. CBTC, loveit, yep. So

ended up wanting to be a teacher, and so was a
welding teacher at publicschools for a while. Ended up
being the apprenticeshipreadiness industrial arts, what
we used to call it with WaukeshaCounty Technical College, and my
mother was a four yearkindergarten teacher, president
of her teachers union, so reallyunderstood the importance of
that holistic educationalworkforce timeline, because I

(04:35):
got to spend a lot of time inkindergarten classrooms and a
lot of time in the tilt crab atWCTC

really speaks to, I think in a lot of ways, this
foundation that we have ofCommunity and Technical College
System, which is finally, insome ways, getting the
recognition it deserves in termsof the incredible value that it
brings to our state's economy.
You and I are both Wisconsinitesand to the entire economy of the
United States with our greatTechnical and Community.
Colleges. So I know you operatedifferent from a community or

(05:02):
technical college. I know youoperate differently from I
happen to serve on our regionalworkforce board that allocates
WIOA funding in our region whereour companies are located. Tell
us a little bit about whatdistinctions you would draw
between those types oforganizations and what you're
doing at wrtp. Big step.

So much like we think of workforce and talent
development, pipelinemanagement, all of these things
as an ecosystem. Wrtb, big stepfunctions in that ecosystem as a
workforce intermediary. So weuse a sectoral partnership model
where we can collaborate andconvene all of the partners that
are necessary to ensure that wehave safe, skill, diverse, ready

(05:41):
workforce that meet the industrydemands, and we do that through
a variety of ways. First of all,we are not constrained by any
geographic boundaries as aprivate nonprofit, so we're able
to work cross collaborativelyand really these complex
networks that require us toleverage certain areas, certain
expertise across the spectrumfor education, training, work,

(06:03):
course and of course, careerjourney and career placement. So
it makes us unique in the sensethat we work with all of the
partners, and we're able to workin different regions in the
state and work cross regionally,because we know that a worker is
a worker is a worker inWisconsin, and that it's a pool
of workers. And so we know thatwe're hitting folks all over the

(06:24):
state and employers too, rightas we become global here in
Wisconsin, we also know thatemployers are doing business
across the state, across statelines, nationally,
internationally. So we have tobe responsive to that as well,
and that particularly workforceintermediary model works with
wrtb, big steps, mission and itsgoals, to ensure that we have a
work ready workforce. So

let's go a little bit deeper into what we mean by
a workforce intermediary. Imean, as I'm sure you're under a
variety of ways, privatedonations and private support, I
would imagine, certainly grantsupport, where does some of the
support and funding come from?
And then how do you put that towork, in terms of building these
partnerships. Are you actuallydoing the training? In some
cases, are you providingresources to organizations that
are doing the trainingthemselves? Help us understand

(07:07):
that a little

bit more so I often describe the metaphor of a
workforce intermediary as kindof the sound engineer. Could go
to a concert, you see thatsound, and you're kind of moving
the levers up and down.
Sometimes you need more ofsomething, less of something. It
all has to work together to makebeautiful music. And so what we
do is use a variety of fundingsources and partners to ensure
that we have differentinitiatives for different

(07:29):
regions, different initiativesfor when demand increases in
certain sectors or certainareas. So that funding comes
from some federal grantsdirectly. So that might be the
Department of Energy, might beDepartment of Labor, might be
the Department of Commerce. Somestate funding as well, through
our 11 workforce boards, as youmentioned, through perhaps even
WIOA. Vouchers might comethrough special initiatives,

(07:51):
Wisconsin advancementinitiatives, with the Wisconsin
innovation grants that the statereleased earlier. So a variety
of those sources, privatephilanthropy, private donors,
private dollars. And then we dohave a very special funding
model with some of our unionsand signatory contractors and
employers who we provideWorkforce Development Services

(08:11):
and talent development servicesfor a cents per hour model for
the cents per hour worked byworkers, which provides that
sustained funding, and thatsustained commitment so that we
can work together on a long termbasis. As we know, if you get
funding for six months, solvingour workforce challenges in six
months isn't going to happen. Weneed that sustained and
continued investment,

no question. And that part of it, that aspect of
it's so important, andespecially it's important for an
organization to have thatsustainability. It's important
for your employees and teammembers as well to know that
there's that common and thatsteady stream of revenue, and
that's really where we see, Ithink, kind of that exponential
impact for an organization iswhere we can build skill on
skill, person on person, missionon mission, and really do some

(08:55):
big things. You're doing bigthings, not just in the City of
Milwaukee, but you've grown tobe a statewide organization now,
and something that obviouslytells us that that model is
working. Talk a little bit, ifyou would Lindsay about why you
think that that growth has takenplace, and what you think are
the key factors to drivinggrowth, not just for your
organization, but for anybodyinvolved

in workforce. So in the last three to five years,
I think we've focused oninfrastructure in the state of
Wisconsin. And with that comesabout $9 billion in encumbered
funds for the state of Wisconsinon various infrastructure
projects. And again, when wetalk about infrastructure in
Wisconsin, it's vital to ourroads, our bridges, our
buildings, our schools, ourwater supply, all of these

(09:38):
things. And when we startthinking about it holistically.
It's going to take a statewideapproach. It's also going to
take a statewide approach tothen supplying the workforce for
all of these projects to meetthe demands of what we need to
have accomplished, to have safedrinking water, safe buildings,
safe roads. And so I think thathas driven quite a lot of the
growth of what we do andproviding everything from.

(09:59):
Consultation on building andworkforce projects, to actual
training, pre apprenticeshiptraining and apprenticeship
readiness, to supportiveservices and convening anything
from subcontractors to generalcontractors to ensure that they
know each other in new regions.
Think Another factor isWisconsin is having a moment in
the spotlight, because we dohave natural resources here that

(10:21):
are imperative for economicgrowth and job growth. We also
are having a moment that notonly do you have natural
resources, but we have a greatstandard of living. We have, as
you mentioned, wonderfultechnical colleges. As the Vice
President of the WisconsinTechnical College System Board,
I believe that we have greatopportunities for folks to be

(10:41):
educated, as well as great fouryear universities and colleges,
and we also have a fairlyclimate resistant environment
here compared to some of ourother counterparts across the
nation. So it's an attractiveplace for businesses to come to
think about how they might seethemselves here and really
having an opportunity to meetthe workforce here in Wisconsin

(11:02):
and some of the Midwesterntraditions we have here of being
hard workers and being ready towork. You know, Wisconsin has
one of the highest participationof women in the workforce across
the nation. We're all committedto ensuring that we have a part
in this workforce. So I thinkthose are some of the bigger
factors that have led to ourexpansion and the demand for our
services across the state,

really, really important. And you are doing so
much great work in regard togenerating that next generation
of the workforce and alsoupskilling the current
generation to that point. I knowyou're the beneficiary of a huge
grant, $10 million which can'tbe understated from the
ascendium education group. Socongratulations, by the way, on
successfully winning that grant.
I know you're going to put it togreat work. Tell our audience a

(11:47):
little bit about what theascendium Education Group is, if
you would.

So send them.
Got a start as a Student LoanGuarantee Corporation, and this
is now the foundational arm,where folks at ascendium are
very interested in how we canwelcome everybody into the
workforce, and what are some ofthe high performing initiatives
or best practices we can use.
And they are very generous inthe sense of understanding that
to solve big problems, they needbig investment, because we're

(12:16):
talking about a systems changeapproach to ensure that we're
not only building or rebuildingor moving levers in a system
now, but we want it to besustained for generations to
come, and so when we think aboutthat type of work, that's the
work they're investing in herein Wisconsin and across the
nation, and using what they'relearning in different areas to
scale so that we can share thesebest practices that we're

(12:37):
learning about and share evensome of the risks we're taking
with some of this investment,because that's what it's going
to take for us to build andsustain a workforce system that
includes all of us, employers,workers, everything, but also is
really resilient to perhapseconomic changes or other
changes, which I'm reallyexcited about. So they're very

(13:00):
forward thinking and how they'remaking these investments. And
who

is that group itself, at another nonprofit, is
that help understand who theyare and how they fit into the
mix? Yeah,

I think there are other large investments with
Milwaukee succeeds. So that's avery specific program for, I
believe, in school youth, andwhile we work in that same
ecosystem, what I love about itis why we work in the same
ecosystem. They have a veryspecific focus, and we have very
specific focus. So we'retackling these issues from all
different angles, and thensharing between us. You know,

(13:31):
what's working, what'shappening. So I think that's
smart investing for any of us,whether it's in an organization
or in your own portfolio, whereyou're trying to make different
moves, to have

a common goal to the point we made in the
introduction. It's an and not anor. And so many organizations
doing such great work and peoplefocusing on their highest and
best use to making the greatestdifference. Really important. I
know you make huge difference inthe area of apprenticeships. In
fact, I think I just saw someinformation this week that we've
got now more apprentices in thestate of Wisconsin than we ever
had in history. My friend Daviddoing great work in that arena,

(14:04):
for sure. And so this grant willfund at least in part, large
part, that the apprenticeshippathway coalition Initiative, or
what we call APCI. Tell us aboutthat initiative. As you know, we
see kind of a renewed focus onapprenticeships, and a lot more
creativity and apprenticeshipshere in the United States, and
certainly in the state ofWisconsin,

we are so very lucky, as I'm sure David Pope
would tell you, if he were hereto be the originator of
apprenticeship in the UnitedStates. And the oldest program
1911 is when the apprenticeshipprogram started here in
Wisconsin. So we stand on theshoulders of giants when we
think about apprenticeshippathways, apprenticeship
occupations, and how this Earnand Learn model can welcome more

(14:44):
folks into the workforce, andcan help employers have better
retention, have better trainedindividuals, and be able to have
better return on investmentoften. So something that the
ACPI initiative. With supportfrom ascendium, it's helping us
doing is thinking about ourmodel that we've had for 50

(15:05):
years at wrtb, big step, and howsuccessful we've been in our
multitude of initiatives. Wefocused on, how can we use that
model and scale it statewide?
And of course, make changes incustomizable type apprenticeship
pathway initiatives so that wecan supply the workers
necessary, or the employers whoare wanting to be employer

(15:26):
apprenticeship sponsors thinkingabout it, or thinking about what
their own talent developmentpipeline might look like now and
in the future. So a few thingswe're doing is targeting some
specific regions in Wisconsin sothat we can almost do a pilot or
a Tessa proof of concept,working using some of what we've
learned over the last 15 yearsat wrt big step, applying them

(15:48):
in different regions with goodpartners, and seeing if they
work. So I would say it's almostlike we have the opportunity in
this world, for the first time,I would say, to have these proof
of concept or startups almostlike the Google model, right?
You're going to invest and trylots of different things, and
you're going to learn a lot. Notall of them are going to be 100%
successful, but the ones you hiton will be fantastic, right? And

(16:10):
so that's what we're doing now.
We're in that Learning Mode,listening mode. We're seven
months in to this, and we havefive years. We have a long
runway, so it's a marathon, nota sprint, but we are looking for
some very motivated partners tohelp us better understand what
are the needs in each region ofWisconsin. How do are the

(16:30):
apprenticeship pathwayscurrently working? What are some
new apprenticeable pathways, oroccupations that could use a
model like ours ofapprenticeship readiness, and
how can that build a betterworkforce for the employers in
each region in Wisconsin, and

in the end, building that, course, we're all
so focused on and reallyimportant work that you're doing
there. I love the correlationyou out of Google trying a lot
of different things at the riskof frustrating our producer,
Melissa, who drives kidstripping crazy when I bring up
private equity or venturecapital, it's kind of the same
way of thinking that every oneis going to be a grand slam home
run. But what we want to do isbet on enough different options,

(17:06):
learn from each other, figureout what works all in on those
areas where we're having thewhole success. So that model is
certainly an opportunity to bevery, very successful in this
new emerging world ofapprenticeships a lot of times,
and even I sometimes, once youfind myself falling into kind of
that old school thinking, if youwill, of limiting what we think
about when we think aboutapprenticeships. And for me, for

(17:27):
a long time, it was somebodymentioned an apprentice that's
like, oh, that's an electrician,that's a plumber, that's
somebody that's working inconstruction. And certainly the
apprenticeship model is aliveand well in that space and
should be in is something thatevery young person quality just
to be considering. But thosearen't the only types of
apprenticeships, right? We'restarting to see apprenticeships
emerge in areas like healthcareand technology, in in business,

(17:50):
in some areas where maybe theyweren't as commonly known and as
prolific. So talk about that.
Are these just the constructionor trade focused
apprenticeships? What are someof the emerging industries that
you're seeing apprenticeshipsbeing

used. I think it's tides are changing a little
bit about apprenticeship, as youmentioned, in all different
sectors. In fact, in all newjobs that will be created in the
next decade in Wisconsin, 55% ofthem will not require a college
degree. Not amazing. It'samazing. And so while there's
lots of pathways to collegedegrees, one of them includes

(18:24):
apprenticeship, the earn whileyou learn model, and you're spot
on when you say marketing, it,childcare, teaching, healthcare,
construction, manufacturing,right? Agriculture, there's a
lot of apprenticeship pathways.
And what makes it unique is thatEarn and Learn models. So from
day one, you're earning, you'relearning on the job, the hands
on experience, and then therelated instruction at the same

(18:44):
time. And as you mentioned,apprenticeship for a while was
not as prevalent as it was early1900s to now. And so we're also
building up some of thatknowledge about what is
apprenticeship and what doesthat apprenticeship system look
like, and it traditionally isknown in construction and in the
building trades. And it'ssomething that is near and dear
to our hearts, and we do a lotof work in that sector and in

(19:07):
manufacturing, so a lot of workthere too. But as we have lots
of pathways available for folksnow, I mentioned a few,
agriculture, marketing, it,healthcare, teaching, these are
all exciting ways in which bothyouth and adults can get
exposure to a trade, to a craft,to give very intense experience

(19:28):
and get paid while you do it.
And for a lot of these pathways,earn the equivalent of a
associate's degree or even abachelor's degree while you go
through these programs. So theyare part of that ecosystem. You
know, there's one that's betterthan the other. It's the and to
gag that, it's anotheropportunity, particularly coming

(19:50):
out of covid and thereevaluation of some of our
youth, thinking about, what dothey want to do while they're in
that kind of 19 to 27 age range?
Great

question. And there's so many benefits. I
mean. Be being able to earn aliving at the same time, in many
cases, ending up money aheadwhile you're going through your
education pathway. And I thinkit's an important distinction
that you draw Lindsay, thatthese are it's not necessarily
that you're precluding yourselffrom some other route, right? So
there's on ramps and off ramp.
There's stackable credentials,stackable skills, credit for
prior learning, prior learningassessments, all these different

(20:19):
models that we have, not just inWisconsin, but really in so many
safety set of thinking aboutthis progressively, that it's
not that you're deciding at theage of 16 that this is your
career path and that's whatyou're going to do for the next
40 years. You're getting anopportunity to try to work in
that industry at the same time,right? So yeah, heaven forbid
this is something that isn't foryou. You're not waiting four or

(20:39):
five years through an educationpathway to get to the workforce
and say, Wow, I really didn'trealize that this isn't what I'm
cut out for. We learned thatalong the way. So I think the
just the flexibility that we seein the apprenticeship model and
the different opportunities intoand out of apprenticeships,
really, really important. Youmentioned advanced
manufacturing. That's where Ispent my career, 25 years as a
manufacturing CEO, leadingcompanies in the Midwest. So

(21:00):
that's an area that's near anddear to my heart, as are a
number of the other areas thatyou mentioned. I know in
manufacturing, one of thechallenges that we have is that
we have a problem now, right? Imean, I've got people that I
need to put in place now. I'vegot positions open. I've got
advancing technologies. I've gotopportunities to pursue. May not
necessarily have the 2346, yearsto wait for someone to work

(21:22):
their way through anapprenticeship program. How does
an organization like yoursbalance that need for long term
learning and longer term careerplanning for individuals, and
also that kind of quick fix thatwe need a lot of times in
manufacturing where we need torapidly upskill people around
certain skills so that we cancontinue to grow our
organizations at times where wecan't afford to wait.

This is where that ecosystem is vitally
important, and the tent islarge, the more people, the
better. This is not an exclusiveclub by any means. So something
we do are, as you mentioned,stackable credentials and
credentialing with high qualitycurriculum, hands on experience,
custom, customized training. Sowe have a base curriculum we can
use, and we can plug and playdifferent components of that

(22:05):
based on industry need, or evenemployer need, to ensure that
the employer market the industryis getting what they need
quickly. A lot of our trainings,the shortest is around five to
six weeks, and then it can go aslong as 16 weeks, depending on
what type of skills need to bein there. If somebody needs
their high school equivalencydegree. They didn't earn a high
school diploma at that time andneed stackable credentials, you

(22:27):
can get those in as little as 16weeks through some of our
programming, and that's toensure that folks are getting
into the market quickly, andthen once they're employed, we
can either help withapprenticeship readiness, right?
So after six months, they mightbe ready to enter an
apprenticeship with amanufacturer or somebody, or
while they're on the job, theymight need some incumbent worker
training. So we'd work with ourlocal Workforce Board to ensure

(22:49):
that those dollars would beavailable. We've also worked
with employers on fast forwardgrants, right, so that there's a
wage subsidy on taking folks whoare maybe a little greener,
maybe been through that six oreight weeks of training, and
then we can help subsidize wagesfor a certain period of time to
be like, is this what you wantto do? Is this what works for me
as an employer as well? Right?
It's that kind of plug and playmodel to ensure that it's
customized for the industry andsector or the employer. But also

(23:11):
so students are in, participantsare going through that program
and getting what they need,absolutely what they need, at a
bare minimum, and then stackingon, oh, I'm interested in this.
And then I'm going to go throughhere, like that long term kind
of career planning, andsomething we always say here at
WR, to be big step is, onceyou've interacted with us,
you're going to see us again andagain and again, partially
because we want to make surethat you're retained as an

(23:33):
employee, that the employer isretaining happy with that match.
But also then, is thereadditional training. Is there
incumbent worker training? Howcan we ensure that you know that
going through some of thetrainings we offered, or others
you have, you're already three,410, credits into an associate's
degree, so maybe the employer islooking to have some customized
training with a technicalcollege, right? Like we can

(23:54):
ensure that we're connectingfolks with the opportunities
that are available while they'rein the workforce while they've
started working so that we canmeet those demands quickly.
Well,

I really like the balance. And if I'm put from
memory, and I'm not going to getit perfect, but you said
something in the is, we werejust getting started about
being, was it industry relevant,worker centered, industry
something. What was that mantra?
Again, industry led, but workercentered. Thank you. Industry
led and worker centered. Andevery one of your answers is
focusing on both of those. Andthat hasn't gone unnoticed, that
it's it's not just about theemployers, and how do they find

(24:25):
skilled talent? Is not justabout the employee or the the
worker or the student orlearner, and how do they find a
career? It's really about how dowe bring both of these aspects
together? Lots of ways to dothat. I am going to mention them
while I'm thinking of it. Thatyou had talked a little while
ago about some of the resourcesthat you have available for
employers and how employers canplug in. We'll make sure and

(24:45):
link those up in the show notes.
So if somebody's interested,that's going to be found there,
but we'll talk about that alittle bit later. I also
mentioned some interesting grantprograms. So we've got all kinds
of organizations all over theMidwest, and you referenced a
couple of them, but to ourlisteners that may be outside.
Had the state of Wisconsin,trust me, your state has funding
available one form or anotherfor continuing working worker

(25:05):
training. And to that point, Iknow you're thinking beyond just
the state of Wisconsin. And ifthis is a model, the ACPI model
is a model that maybe otherstates might be looking to. You
know What recommendations wouldyou have for to them, for how
you would replicate a model likethis. So maybe, how are you
thinking about that internallyin your own organization?

So thinking internally about it when we're
starting to really examine theecosystem here in Wisconsin is
it has to be simple for theparticipant, for the worker, and
it has to be simple for theemployer. Oftentimes, in
workforce development, we haveour own language, with all of
our own acronyms. You know,there's different pots of money.
I mean, we've even mentionedhere WIOA and

Unknown (25:46):
some other eWD passport variance.

And you know, when we think about that, we
want to try and discover how wemight have this workforce
intermediary model scale so thatit's a one stop shop in
partnership with the 11 regionalworkforce boards, with the 16
technical colleges, right? Sothere's some advantages of being
able to scale statewide, so thatwe can be that connector. So

(26:10):
when I think about how we mightscale this, you know, to other
states or nationally, we have tothink about, we have to know our
partners so well in any givenstate or region, and knowing
that there are a host ofopportunities. So as you
mentioned, every state hassomething, economic development,
commissions, chambers ofcommerce, workforce boards, some

(26:31):
entities, training providers,most likely community colleges.
Who is that convener or who canplay that convening role in your
state? And you know best isalways looking word, is it your
organization, or is it yourentity you know, or if you're an
existing entity, how can thatconvening role be integrated
into what you do? Because you'regoing to find much more success
with the integration of anintermediary type model. Because

(26:55):
you know something I always talkwith staff here about, is these
complex connected networks, andthese complex, connected
networks are vital to this, toany initiative we want we want
to launch, they are complex.
They have differentrelationships. And it's, you
know, a lot of relationshipbuilding. And I promise, if you
put the time into that, then theproduct is going to be much
better, right? Because, youknow, something that I've always

(27:16):
looked at, and you started offtalking a little bit about, no,
I meandered my way through mycareer, but I've seen this work
from the participant side, theprogram side, the finance side,
you know, the direct participantside. You know, I've been on all
those sides, because in order toget that 360 view, you need to
have people who are working ineach of those areas to provide

(27:36):
that perspective. And I oftenget asked, Oh, well, where is
our wrtb, big step in our state?
I was like, Well, you may haveit, you may not like but that's
part of the taking a step backfrom the one perspective your
entity might have, and saying,how do we elevate this and look
across the entities? That's themost important, and it's almost

(27:58):
to start with an asset map ofwhere are the assets within your
region or your state, in orderto better understand, then how
the ecosystem is working or isnot working, where the barriers
are, and then what role doeseach individual entity or person
or employer or employerassociation play in that and
make that tent wide, make thattent huge, because it is going
to be all of you at some point.
Well, I

think you make a really good point, which is,
every state is different, and Imean, I work all over the
country. I know you spend a lotof time all over the US as well,
looking at models and supportingdifferent efforts. I do the same
thing, and especially acrossseven states in the Midwestern
United States. These states area lot of them are really, really
different. I mean, you justthink about the technical
college systems and thecommunity college systems that

(28:39):
you've talked about. And ofcourse, you serve on the the
State Board for the Wisconsinsystem, which is a, you know, a
combination of 16 differentindependent technical colleges,
all with their own governingboards and their own abilities
to make decisions and and torespond, by the way, to their
local employers, which havecertain advantages. And then the
lack of a central decisionmaking process can have its
downfalls as well. I contrastthat to a state like Indiana,

(29:00):
where the president of thatsystem can make a decision
today, and it's, you know, itgets implemented across the
entire system, turnkey. And notthat one system is better or
worse than another, becausethere's benefits and drawbacks
of both of them. But the pointis that every state is a little
bit different. Funding isdifferent. Organizations doing
workforce are different. Theeducation systems are different,

(29:20):
the employers are different. Andso doing that asset map, as you
suggest, really important, notjust in the work that you're
doing, but really in anyexpansion plan, which is, let's
see what more we're dealingwith. Let's see what
opportunities and tools andresources we have available to
us, and then let's have leveragethose to the greatest extent.
I'm going to challenge one wordyou used, and that is the word
meandering. You said meanderingthrough your career. As I look

(29:41):
at your background, it may havefelt like meandering, but it
seems like a whole lot ofpurpose, and all of that purpose
led to the incredible work thatyou're doing now. So you can
call meandering, but it seems tome that there was probably a
little bit more of a directionthat was endemic in that you
mentioned some of the importantaspects of scaling. You talked
about making it simple foremployers. You. Talked about
making it simple for employeesthat you talked about making

(30:03):
sure that you starting withrelationships. Those are really
key, and not doing that arecertainly going to present some
risks in terms of how we scale.
Are there other things you thinkabout in terms of risks of
scaling, or how we mitigate someof the challenges you might face
as you're expanding anorganization with yours?

Listening before we speak, you know, we have
expertise in certain areas, butthat expertise is neither here
nor there. If you're not a goodlistener about what is happening
in a particular region, in acity, I mean, in a community,
within a municipality, within acity, right? Like not everything
is no can't translateeverything, and that's okay, and

(30:39):
getting over that, well, itworked here. So it's going to
work here, or portions of thisworks will take it and we'll
pick it up and prop it down. Andthat should work. You know,
realizing that every person istheir own expert and their own
lived experience, andrecognizing that that lived
experience is incrediblyvaluable in terms of what has

(31:00):
their experience been in theworkforce or as a business owner
or as an entrepreneur? Well, themore you listen, the more you
aggregate some of this. You canpull out common themes. And it's
really coming to those commonthemes where people can
recognize themselves in theinitiative or recognize
themselves in the activity, andsay, I was listened to somebody
who listened to my story, mylived experience, and has

(31:22):
incorporated that into whateverinitiative or activity that
they're doing. I think that'salso vitally important when
you're scaling and growing, andalso understanding that there's
not going to be 100% win rate.
There's just lot. And also noteveryone is going to want to
jump on with you at the verybeginning, right? It's not
everyone is an early adopter,and we've learned that over the
years with technology and otherthings. And that's okay. That's

(31:44):
neither good nor bad. It meansthat, you know, we're going to
dance with the people who wantto dance with us, so we're going
to try it, and hopefully thatdance is so wonderful that other
people are going to want to tryit too eventually. And that's
okay, you know, to I think theknee jerk reaction, particularly
when we're talking about drivinggrowth, and, you know, in being
driven and having thispurposeful drive, you know,

(32:05):
like, I want it to be doneyesterday, the model should have
been implemented, exceptyesterday, when, in reality,
that's not how life works.
That's not how anything works.
And there's a lot of learning tobe done in that, and a lot of
appreciating to be done in that,which

makes it stronger. And I think that's one
of those things, certainly in myearly days of leadership. And I
think a lot of people who arenew to leadership, they think
because they didn't crush it thefirst time out that they you
know that there was somethingwrong with them as we record
this, I just happened to have Iwas in a small group last night
that had dinner with a gentlemanby the name of John C Maxwell,
who's a really well knownleadership guru, you might say

(32:42):
legend in the world ofleadership, a New York Times
number one, best selling author.
And so we were together lastnight, and he was talking about,
look, if it's your first timethrough something, don't worry
about failing. You're gonnafail. You're not gonna get it
right. You're gonna screw up,right? And it doesn't mean that
every single time that we trysomething, that we screw it up.
But the point is, I always feltlike, all right, if I did 10
things as a leader and I wasonly successful in eight of

(33:03):
them, wow, why did I fail onthose other two? And you know,
years and years and decades ofexperience tells me 80 that's a
really good win, win. If you canget 80% of it right, you've got
something figured out. So I likeyour approach and your attitude
toward that, which is that it'sreally about, how do we harden
the target? How do we get asmuch of the ambiguity out of the
way so that we can focus on thethings that really make us

(33:24):
successful, but knowing thateven if we do all that, and if
we do everything right, we'regoing to have some wins and
we're going to have some losses,and the key is to just have more
wins than losses, and the morewe can have, the more impact we
can have. And I know that that'sreally, really important to you
as you're doing the work thatyou are at wrtp, big step, and
not just there, but building allof these systems and coalitions
as as you talk about, I like thefact that we have something to

(33:47):
learn, and every individualbrings something to the table.
They all have their own livedexperience. And there's value in
that. That goes for educators,that goes for administrators,
that goes for frontlinetrainers. So when you think
about actually doing theexecution, when you think about,
you know, raising the stakes andgetting that hit rate, or that
success rate as high as you can,obviously, so much of that comes

(34:09):
back to the importance offocusing on individual people.
So talk about how you're doingthat work at the kind of the
frontline and the educatorlevel. What role are those folks
playing in making this work, andhow you make sure that they're
coming along for the ride anddoing their best work. So we
have such

terrific people on the ground at, you know,
doing that work. And they'redoing some programming work,
some outreach works,relationship building work. And
you know, some of theinitiatives and activities I see
them doing is, you know, reallycoming in with an open mind, and
we're always very specific andsay, you know, when we come into
a new room, a new group, right,a new industry association,

(34:49):
whatever it might be, I'm sayingwe are here to learn first.
We're here to learn first. Wehave things we can do, but we're
not. We don't lead with that,because it. May not be a fit.
First of all, it's a not a lotof time. It's just gathering the
knowledge, right? Who are youand who am I? And how do we even
fit together? What are some ofthe problems you're thinking

(35:11):
about, or challenges you want toaddress, or what are you know?
What would you like to see? Andhere's what we've seen in some
other places. Do you experiencethat is or no, you know? So I
think there's on the frontlines, they're doing a lot of
that work right now, and whilethey're doing that, they're
building again, that forum, orthat opportunity to find the
commonalities in theseconversations and then refining

(35:31):
it, saying, you know, you know,this might be where we can kick
down that barrier or kick downthat door, or provide that
forum, that line of sight forworkforce, or that that forum to
have that conversation of, whydoesn't that process work here?
Or why haven't we been able tosee better outcomes yet, if we
can be the convener, hold that,and be a steward of that, or we

(35:54):
lead it, right? I think thatreally, there's an opportunity
to say we can lead it, or isthere a better leader? And
that's okay, you know, we mighthold it for now, but that might
be something for somebody elsein the future, but we can do
that now and also help folks seethe commonalities, as well. As
an intermediary, we have theluxury as well to sit back and
say, This is what I'm hearing.
Is that what's happening, youknow, we're new to the region,

(36:16):
you know, is that it helped meunderstand how that's working
here. And so those are some ofthe things our frontline folks
are doing right now with an eyetoward, you know, really, we
actually today, shared some ofour goal setting across our
entire organization this morningat our all staff meeting. And we
really break it down into threebuckets. We say, how are we
creating great partnerships? Howdo we expand opportunities? And

(36:39):
how do we create impact? And foreach goal we have, we have these
one pagers with these threecolumns, and then what we do is
we put them all up across theorganization and find the
commonalities so that we worksmarter, not harder, right? If
somebody's doing something in aparticular area, they can be the
expert in that. And that's theway we really approach our work
and our expansion, our growth aswell, when we're especially when

(37:01):
we're going to new regions ornew areas or even new sectors,
is, you know, we learn first, wetalk about, what are the
partnerships, what are theopportunities, and what's the
impact. And if we can do thatevery single time, we're able to
really identify where we fitinto that puzzle and be a value
add, rather than just anotherthing.

And I think that sets a really, really good
example. Lindsay, for anybodywho's thinking about growth, you
know, you start out with thiswhole idea, and I think in my
younger, younger years ofleading organizations, and you
feel like you have to walk inwith the answer, and you have to
wow somebody with what you'redoing right out of the blocks.
But one of the things I'velearned over time, and it's
reflected and shared in the, youknow, the comments that you just
offered really poignantly isthis whole idea that if we're

(37:46):
vulnerable first, if we'retransparent first, if we don't
come in thinking we know all theanswers, we listen first, we ask
the right questions. That's ahuge way of doing a number of
things. One of them is, and, youknow, and we do a ton of stuff
in the workforce world, both,you know, in the volunteer side,
and on the, you know, corporateand for profit side. And I start
every conversation with, look, Idon't know if we can help you or

(38:07):
not. I am and if we can't, we'llgo work at something else. We
don't want to be where we canadd value. So let's talk about
whether we could add value.
Let's talk about whether there'sa fit here, and let's listen to
each other. And if there's if weget to the end of the
conversation, and it feels likewe could do something real cool
together. To your point, youknow, build a partnership,
create opportunity, create animpact. Let's go ahead and do
that. And if we get to thatpoint and there isn't a fit

(38:28):
that, let's not spin our wheelsand waste our time, let's
congratulate each other fordoing great things and recognize
that, you know, maybe we'regoing to stay in touch and
continue to support each other'swork with that partnership. In
terms of working directlytogether, might not be there.
It's amazing how you start aconversation like that, and all
of the defenses come down, youstart with humility, and people
start to realize, look, I thisperson isn't here to try and

(38:49):
sell me anything or to convinceme of anything, and you have a
much, much more productiveconversation. So I think that's
really good advice. And I couldgo on with a bunch of other
pieces of that last answer,which I think really have a
whole slew of differentleadership lessons embedded in
them. In the interest of time,though, we'll just stay on this
topic of advice, which I thinkyou just offered some for
anybody who's considered growingany organization and building a

(39:10):
partnership, or, for thatmatter, creating opportunity and
impact. If I'm a school, if I'ma workforce agency, if I'm I'm
an employer, and I'm listeningto this episode and I'm saying,
Wow, this organization, wrtp,big step is really doing some
incredible things. I love toemulate what they're doing, but
I have no idea where to start orhow to get going. What advice
would you have for those folks?

The beauty of the investment for the ACPI
initiative with ascendium, ourpartnership with ascendium, is
that we have the opportunity totravel the state and have these
types of conversations. And sowe've done quite a few already
where we've sat down with aWorkforce Board, or we've sat
down with a nonprofit entity, ora United Way, who said, you
know, I think I want to beinvolved, or I know I want to be

(39:53):
involved, I'm just not sure how.
And we've started out with somesimple conversations about, just
like we talked about listening,is there. In action, and that's
been really helpful to betterunderstand where we're all
coming from. But we also do havesome ready made things that we
can offer through thisinvestment. You know, that we're
able to think about what does wejust finished up a summer Trades
Academy for Youth in theNortheast region, so anywhere

(40:14):
from Appleton to Green Baythere. It's the first time it's
ever been done, first time, andit was something that community,
that region, identified as wewant to try this. Can we take
pieces of your model and try it?
And can you help us, you know,fund this and get it off the
ground? And it was wildlysuccessful. It was fantastic. So
it was, again, kind of a proofof concept in a way that they,

(40:36):
they identified something thatwe already had, ready made, and
we customized it, and it worked.
Well, you know? So again, it's aI'm thinking about doing this or
our career fairs aren't reallyworking. How could we, you know,
how might we work together tofigure that out? Happy to come
and talk with anyone, havevirtual conversations, in person
conversations, because this isall part of the building of what
kind of workforce system we wantto see in five years.

And I know our listeners are going to love to
hear that open invitation, sowe'll make sure and link up the
contact information if peoplewant to find you into the show
notes as well. So I'm sure thephones will be ringing off the
hook, and your email is going tofill up with people that are
trying to emulate and partnerwith you, because of all the
great things that we've beenable to cover here on the TechEd
podcast. I say that somewhattongue in cheek, but I know
people listening to this aregoing to this, are going to be

(41:21):
interested in that you're thatyou're going to hear from them.
So we're looking forward tothat. Also looking forward to a
couple last questions forLindsay bloomer questions we
like closing to our guests hereon the podcast. And you know the
first one, you have a uniqueperspective, right? You've been
in the workforce. You've been inworkforce development. You're
doing all kinds of great thingswith the workforce boards all
over the state of Wisconsin andbeyond. You're involved in our

(41:43):
technical college system to thepoint where you've ascended to
the level of vice president ofthe entire system board. So I
know you're no stranger toeducation. You also had your own
education journey. So let me askyou this. Lindsay, is there
something that you believe aboutthe world of education,
education in general, that mightsurprise other people.

It's a good question. And, you know, when I
did some work in academia, andI've taught in a business
department before, you know,something I heard from a lot of
like Career and ProfessionalDevelopment individuals was, you
know, well, if you're passionateabout it, you'll never work a
day in your life, right? Thekind of this idea of, you know,
it just takes the passion to doit. And having been in skills

(42:25):
training and academia andteaching and my own educational
journey, I think what mightsurprise people is I don't buy
into that. I don't buy intothat. And it's not that you
don't want to be passionate.
Absolutely, I would say I amfully committed my entire career
to, you know, helping folks inyou know, connect with careers
and things they love to do, butyou're going to work so hard.
You're going to work so hard atit. But the difference is,

(42:46):
you're going to work hard at itbecause you believe in it.
You're work hard in it becauseyou want to see it succeed, and
that should be celebrated. Andif it feels like there are days
it feels like work, there aretimes seasons, it's going to
feel like a lot of work. Butkeeping that mission and that
goal at the forefront is, to me,much more important than the
that kind of adage of you know,if you're passionate about it,

(43:07):
you don't work a day in yourlife, or it doesn't feel like
you work a day in a life,especially with younger folks
entering the workforce. I thinksometimes we confuse them with
that, when with our experienceand our knowledge and our time
in the workforce, we know thatactually it's, we're gonna work
a whole heck of a lot at it, butthat's gonna feel good too.

Absolutely. Yeah, that's a really good
observation. We do have a lot offolks that say, Hey, just follow
your passion. And then thefollowing thing is, you know, if
you love what you do, you everwork a day in your life? And you
know there's, there's nothingwrong with work, but it doesn't
mean that it doesn't sometimesfeel like work, and some weeks
feel more like work than others.
But you know, if you're willingto really put that time in to
face adversity, to get over someof those hurdles, to fail, a few
times, we've talked about that,even though it feels like work,

(43:47):
it's such a rewarding type ofwork. I just had a meeting
earlier today with a friend ofmine who's thinking about a
career change, and he said, Whatdo I think about when I think
about the next organization thatI'm a part of? And we talked
about culture and the importanceof mission and feeling like
you're serving something moreimportant than yourself. It's
not the only aspect or the onlyfactor that's important, but it
really is, and especially for Ithink, younger employees now,

(44:09):
they want that sense of mission.
They want to feel like they'remaking a difference, and yes,
they're going there to earn apaycheck, and they want raises,
and they want opportunities andso on. But they also want to
feel like they're part ofsomething bigger than
themselves. I think you'reexactly right, and when you do
that, it certainly isn't that itdoesn't feel like work, but that
work feels like it has meaningand it's got value more than
just collecting that paycheck.
So I'm 100% aligned on that one,curious on the next question as

(44:32):
well. Let's go back to youryou're a 15 year old Lindsay.
You know your mom is teachingand leading the teachers union
in the region where you'regrowing up and and your dad is
doing all this great work, youknow, in places like Waukesha
County Technical College and andhere's Lindsay working her way
through her high school journey.
She's a sophomore in highschool. Has her whole life ahead

(44:53):
of her. If you could go back andtell yourself one piece of
advice as a 15 year old, whatwould that piece of advice be?
You?

Every position, every opportunity, even if it
doesn't feel like it's alignedwith what you see yourself doing
in the future. You are learningfrom it. You're getting paid to
learn from it, and it will berelevant, because every
experience you have will berelevant. I remember that 1516,

(45:20):
year old knee that said, I'mgoing to go into this work of,
you know, nonprofit organizationmanagement, I have to work in a
place that is a mission and I'mmission driven. You're saying,
well, that's for what you dowhen you retire, or that's what
you do. And you know, I wentthrough, I went to policy and
government work, to nonprofitwork, and I found that all of
those experiences were relevantand valid, and they were always

(45:43):
mission driven in some way. Andso I would say, get paid to
learn. Get paid to learn as muchas you can, because it's all
relevant. In the end,

I love that so much packed into that I'll tell
you first of all, the bestanswers we get to that question
are when the guest pauses for amoment, it takes a breath before
they give it, collecting theirthoughts and really thinking
about a deep answer. Thatcertainly was a deep answer. You
know, another one of the thingswe talk about with young people
quite often that I do is, likein with my own kids, for that
matter, when they were decidingwhat they wanted to do after
high school, I said, therereally, I mean, there are, there

(46:12):
are bad choices. You're notgoing to make the bad choices of
the choices you have in front ofyou. You're going to make a
great choice. It doesn't matterwhat you didn't pick. What
matters is what you did. Andthat's your path. And then go
after, then to your point,somebody's gonna pay you to
learn. And you may find that,you know, there's a right turn
here or there, or a little bitof gearing on or off of the
course. That's all for a reason.
You're learning along the way.

(46:32):
You're gathering skills, you'regathering abilities, you're
gathering experience, you'regathering confidence, and that's
just setting you up for whatcomes next. That experience in
that path certainly set you up.
Lindsay well, for what camenext, which is leading an
organization like wrtp, bigstep, doing incredible work on
behalf of employers, on behalfthe economy of the state. And I
would say most important,although they're all important,

(46:53):
on behalf of learners andstudents and young people and
people of all ages who arethinking about their futures,
because that workforce really isthe left blood of an economy,
not just in the state ofWisconsin, in any state around
the United States of America andaround the globe. So so glad
that you're setting thatexample. So glad that you took
some time for us here on theTechEd podcast to share some of
those thoughts. It was a really,really fun conversation. And

(47:14):
thanks for being here. Thank youso much for having me. It was
great. So we learned a lot onthis episode of The TechEd
podcast about wrtp, big step,which was awesome, and they are
doing incredible work, securingphenomenal funding, doing great
things for the future of theeconomy in the state of
Wisconsin, and setting anexample for others around the
country. But we also went deepinto things like leadership and
what it means to succeed andwhat it means to fail and what

(47:36):
it means to have a mission. Ihope those lessons weren't
Watson and all of our all of ourlisteners this week, because we
really got into some during thecourse that conversation, some
really fascinating discussionwith Lindsay bloomer, who is, of
course, the President and CEO ofwrtp. Big step. Awesome
conversation. We referenced allkinds of resources, including
how you get in touch withLindsay. We'll be sure put that

(47:58):
in the show notes. You will findthose at TechEd
podcast.com/bloomer we'll putthose at TechEd podcast.com/b l,
u, M, E, R, as always, check usout on social media. You can
find Lindsay on social media aswell. I connected with her
earlier today on LinkedIn, andshe accepted the request, by the
way, in about two and a halfminutes. So she must be a

(48:18):
LinkedIn addict like I am, Idon't know, but certainly reach
out to wrtp, big step, and checkthem out on social media. Check
the TechEd podcast out on socialmedia. We're all over. You'll
find us on Tiktok, on Instagram,on Facebook, on LinkedIn,
wherever you go for your socialmedia, you will find the TechEd
podcast, and you'll find us herenext week, as we dive into
another episode for this week.

(48:41):
I'm Matt Kirkner, your host, andthank you so much for being with
us.

Unknown (48:49):
You.

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The $10 Million Workforce Experiment That Could Redefine Apprenticeships in America - Lindsay Blumer, CEO of WRTP | BIG STEP

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The $10 Million Workforce Experiment That Could Redefine Apprenticeships in America - Lindsay Blumer, CEO of WRTP | BIG STEP