Ted Lasso | S2 Ep12 Part5 "Inverting the Pyramid of Success" - The Tedcast - A Deep Dive Podcast About The Bear

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast.
Welcome all Greyhound fans,welcome all you sinners from the
dog track and all the AFCRichmond fans around the world.
It's the Lasso way around theseparts with Coach, coach and
Boss, without further ado, coachCastleton.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Right.
So, Coach, you think that Natehas the opposite understanding
of how power actually works?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah.
So I think we're thinking aboutthe inverting in terms of the
coaching and on the field slashlocker room dynamic, but I think
Nate is actually inverting howpower works like how it actually
works.
Power works like how itactually works, and so Nate
wants to be declared a big manby the world and then he'll be

(01:10):
on top and then he can saythings and people will do what
he said.
All these things and I think orat least in the model that we
see being executed generallyExecuted generally very
successfully by Ted is you, doyou actually lead?
And that's how you come topower and have that weight in

(01:36):
people's lives.
So I think that is critical toour understanding of all of this
is like the need to be.
Somebody needs to talk aboutleading versus managing.
Actually, seth Godin right, whoI've talked about before, and
managers make sure that thingsare done correctly and the speed

(01:57):
they're supposed to and theprocesses work and all that.
A leader says we're going thisway, follow me.
And I think that Nate wantseverybody to say, hey, you're a
leading type, tell us to followyou, or just right, or we follow

(02:20):
you.
You're so awesome, nate.
And not recognizing that reallywhat he should be doing.
Rather than like ripping youknow, ripping Colin or whatever
it is what he should be doing isspending time after practice
with Colin working on penaltykicks.

(02:41):
On penalty kicks yeah, what heshould be doing.
Right, that's how, as a coach,you become right.
Like they experience you andthey're like oh, I want to be
around coach more, I hang outaround coaching and I'm gonna be
, and then I get better.
Yeah, uh, he's seeing.
He's seeing it as very like he.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
he wants to be an authority, not a leader yeah, so
, um, it reminded me the waythat he wants power, reminded me
a little bit.
Uh, the movie, uh, madam webb,I also I have heard people
pronounce it madam webb.
I'm not gonna do that.
I don't know if that's right.
Madam webb is what I'm gonnasay.
I don't think it did too wellin the box office and I don't

(03:19):
want to like listen.
I haven't seen it.
This is a case where I am beingcurious and not judgmental
until I actually watch the filmbefore forming any opinions.
But I heard on two differentpodcasts that I listened to a
specific shout out of the lineuh, when you accept great
responsibility, you will achievegreat power, which is supposed

(03:44):
to be an inversion of UncleBen's line from Spider-Man about
with great power comes greatresponsibility and the Madam Web
one does not hit right.
That is not what it is.
It's not like once you take onall of the responsibility, then
all of a sudden people respectno.

(04:06):
It's not quite that.
It's not that you're going toget spidey senses because you
really want to fight crime, likethat's.
If there there is thisinversion of uh, you need to
actually do the leadershipthings and then people will
recognize you as a leader.
It's, I feel, really terrible.
There's a woman I knew yearsago who really loved the

(04:27):
Twilight books and was waitingfor a man to see all of the
wonderfulness inside of her thatshe knew was there.
And I was like are you ondating apps?
Are you going out to places?
Are you going to singles events?
Are you talking to people?
What are you doing?
She was like well, you know,like sometimes I'll go to
parties and just wait for men totalk to me.
And I'm like well, I'm gonnalevel with you I don't know if

(04:50):
that is gonna work.
I don't think it's worked in thepast, I think.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
I think maybe we need to up your game a little bit,
because well, I can say for surethere's been a shitty sales
strategy from our company oh,like it just you're 100 right I
did I?

Speaker 2 (05:09):
just I feel like you do the work and then you are
recognized.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
You can't expect people to know what you are
before you've done the work well, for other, for other reasons,
we can and and swing this intothe show.
Ted Lasso, I believe that'sthis podcast.
At any rate, at some point, atsome point, coach Cassidy will
introduce us, but quickly I'llsay that it's that's really.

(05:36):
I love the way you said thatabout the responsibility piece.
Responsibility piece um,because we have certain ideas of
what leadership is.
I would actually say in somecases, whatever you do, don't
become that person, becausepeople love to give that person

(05:58):
just a ton of shit to do,whereas I think leadership is a
little different than that.
So sometimes I do think peoplethink, if I'm the best worker,
bee people will recognize me asa leader.
And.
I'm like.
I get why, I get the value ofit.
I just don't think it's thesame thing as leadership.
But anyway, hey coach, how's itgoing?

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Boss said press record, I was busy he was
looking down at the man and theboss said, look, we got to catch
this.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, coach was cooking and we needed to hear it
.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
When coach cooks.
We got to record.
I am your host, coach CastletonWith me.
You heard Coach Bishop and ourboss, emily Chambers.
We are diving right in.
This is Season 2, episode 12 ofTed Lasso Inverting the Pyramid
of Success.
Part 5 is where we are today.
We are going to dive right intothe beginning of the 83rd clash

(06:59):
between these teams, these twoteams.
There's never more at stake.
This is Brentford and Richmond,richmond's in their false nine
formation and of course, arlosays that.
Chris says I don't like it,arlo.
Last match of the season forpromotion.

(07:20):
It's funny time to be pullingout a whole new strategy.
He's not wrong.
He's not wrong.
Coach wouldn't do it.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
It's yeah, it's a lot Like it works for the story.
But I was kind of like I waskind of with Roy when he was
like that's mental.
But, I get it.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yeah, it's a lot.
It's a lot and it seems like anovercorrection.
We get a lot of gameplay,Richmond trying to even it up at
the half, but they give awaypossession and Brentford have
numbers and we get a shot ofBrentford playing coming up.
They cross right in front ofour boy Zorro and, lo and behold
, Brentford scores.

(08:03):
So it's 2-0 to Brentford.
You try to attack this late,with the match at the stake and
everyone loses their heads.
Now we get you know this is,listen, 2-0 before half is a
disaster.
It's a disaster.
It means the other team can sitback and bunker and make you

(08:25):
fight for, like, on the offchance, you'll get one.
It's too hard to score in thislevel, At this level of play, it
is too difficult to score.
2-0 is destruction, it'sclobbering.
So these guys are obviouslydispleased and boss.

(08:47):
What does Nate?
Yeah, we get a shot of thecoaches on the sidelines.
They all react.
Beard's got his hands on hishead like oh, god damn it.
And what does Nate say here?

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Stay back.
How many times do I have tofucking tell you Stay back,
which is obviously the lasso way, yeah?

Speaker 4 (09:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's.
It's so uh egregious.
Anyone who comes to this showand knows what the show is all
about.
That that's not how we talked.
That's not how we do it also.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
I don't think it's just.
It's not just just like oh, youknow it's harsh, you know like
who's fucking harsher than Roy?
Part of the problem here ishe's unable.
He's unable to do the coachingpart.
He's a strategist.
One day he may become a coach.

(09:46):
He is not a coach Because guesswhat, If I know something and I
can't get my players tounderstand it, I fucked up the
coaching part.
That's the coaching part.
It's not a lecture seriesbefore the game where I show off
how smart I am about this sportand then the best of luck to

(10:06):
you.
I have to figure out how tocommunicate that and to me.
That's where Nate's reaction is.
I thought it up, I drew it up.
I know it should worktheoretically.
If it's not working, that'sbecause the players have failed.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, no, no, it's an outstanding point, coach.
That's why, when Roy is brutalwith people, you never for one
second doubt his sincerity.
No, keep your head down.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
I mean I don't know how to do it, but I remember
when he said, like, keep yourhead down, da-da-da and drive
right through it.
I mean like he's telling youwhat to do, like he's fixing it,
Like he may be fixing itharshly, but he is fixing it.
He's not just like you're afucking idiot.
And even though Nate istechnically saying what to do,
stay back in context.
Not really In context, he'sjust saying stop fucking up my

(10:59):
strategy.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, because when you say, put your head down and
drive through it, those arephysical, this is what you do,
this and then you do this.
What he is saying is you needto avoid it.
You need to change all of yourinstincts and not go to the ball
, stay back Like you need toactually say something more than
just don't do the thing you'vebeen trained to do your whole
life.
Well, how many times?

Speaker 3 (11:19):
do I need to tell you ?
That's right.
How many times do I need totell you Again?
That's evidence of bad coaching.
If I say it one way and youdon't get it, I got to find
another fucking way to say it.
That is the work.
That is the job.
And you could tell one playerthat and they're great.
And the other one's looking atyou like what the fuck are you
talking about?
I mean, I've had a wholeconversation with a little kid

(11:43):
on a field where I'm like yousee that end zone over there,
that's where your mom is.
Are you going to let these guysget to your mom?
No, okay, that's what we'redoing.
We're keeping these kids away.
What am I talking about?
Cover one, cover three withsome fucking seven-year-old Like
what are you stupid?
Like these kids don't know whatthe fuck you're talking about.
Right, right.
And so to me, that's you knowright now, nate, you know,

(12:07):
because it's about it beingNate's false nine.
It's not about it beingRichmond succeeding, it's about
showing off my brilliance.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
So, ted, where you're at, hey, it's all right, it's
all right, come on now.
You know he gives me to looklike, damn, what is wrong?
Um, and then it's halftime.
What has been a pulsating westlondon derby?
I never, I'll never, use thederby for derby, um, and here we
are.
We're at halftime.
Right away, bam uh, felt likewe?

(12:38):
Uh first half I barely knew youit just we don't we.
All we get.
All we get is is is the coup degras of the second goal.
That's basically it.
Um, now we get we cut to thebar crown and anchor.
Everyone at pb and j?
Um are looking miserable,everyone is.

(12:58):
You know what it feels likewhen you're in a cheering
section where, yeah, hope is allbut lost.
Yeah, it feels terrible,especially on a big stage like
this.
Richard Letty and GoldenOpportunity slipped through
their fingers.
Arlo says Now we cut to thecoach's room.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
One thing before you jump out of there.
I just want to say for thedirectors and the camera people
they shot the shit out of crownand anchor.
If, yeah, there's a, there'snot a fucking angle or distance
or lens they haven't used.
I was just like looking at thatshot sort of kind of across
them.
I don't think we've ever seenthat shot before.

(13:37):
No, they shot the shit out ofthat place.
Man, yeah, like it's reallyimpressive, like just from a
practical.
Yeah, like it's reallyimpressive, like just from a
practical we got to get thisdone kind of place, like they
just nail it.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Yeah, it's a beautiful shot, baz in front in
focus.
You got Mae past him, past hisright shoulder, head on her
hands on the bar.
Paul and Jeremy both like kindof hand on chin totally out of
focus, but you can see the depthand, yeah, no, it's a beautiful

(14:10):
shot.
They're not happy.
This is not a good place to be.
It feels terrible.
The thing is, when a team isdown 2-0 at halftime, one of the
great joys of football orsoccer, depending on where
you're from is, um teams comeback.
You don't.
You don't think they can comeback.

(14:31):
It feels like you know, I waswatching a hockey game the other
day that was like I think,three nil at halftime.
Three, nothing at.
Uh, there's no halftime inhockey.
Um three nil after the firstperiod.
And you're like, oh god, likethere's no halftime in hockey.
3-0 after the first period.
And you're like, oh God, jesusChrist.
And then the team that waslosing came back and won 7-6 in
overtime.

(14:51):
And you're like, oh, my God,when you get 13 goals in a
hockey game, it's like youpowder yourself Like in 18th
century.
It's like, oh dear God, youneed to spritz yourself.
It almost doesn't matter whoscores, you want your team to
win, but the goals are so fastand unbelievable.
And in this particular game theywere, like you know, back and

(15:14):
forth kind of thing.
Like you know, that's sobeautiful.
Anyway, we cut to the coachesI'm going to toss this in.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's not where this coach's meeting goes.
Uh, as we saw, do it quickly,but again, in terms of the
coaching and nate being so, I'dsay ugly.
In terms of if we win, then wewon, but then if we lose, then
you lost, right.
Like I hate when kate I I hatewhen fans do that never mind
players and coaches, it justdrives me crazy, but these

(15:50):
situations sometimes can begreat for coaching because you
can spin a tail.
You'd be like, all right, well,that was shit.
And now they think they arethat much better than you.
So here's what we're going todo we're going to go out in the
second half and we're going todo what we do, and we can score
three to those two becausethey're going to do.
We're going to go out in thesecond half and we do what we do
and we can score three to thosetwo because they're going to
come out comfortable.
Now they think you know what.

(16:11):
I mean so also part of whatNate's missing by not coaching
in my way of talking aboutcoaching is it is halftime.
If they can score two goals anda half, then we can score two
holes and a half.
We all on the same motherfuckerfield, so it's also hopeless,

(16:32):
Like it's a hopeless way ofcoaching.
There's no reason for a playerto hear him yell that and think,
all right, yeah, we got thisshit.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yes, the importance of momentum both that you guys
have talked about and that I'veheard other places is especially
key, like, yes, the the otherteam can hunker down, but if
they aren't fighting, are theygoing to do as well, and that's
what you need to tap into.
And that is exactly what madeis missing yeah, there's.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
you got to be able to inspire your players to to make
a change or to come at itdifferently or to.
You know there has to be a wayto come back.
There are certain teams wherethey can go in at halftime, but
you have such respect for thecoach that you know he's going
to say he or she is going to sayexactly what needs to be said

(17:22):
to get the best.
You're going to see a changecoming out of halftime.
Sometimes in football or soccer, you'll come and you'll see
some substitutes.
It's not like they tip thecoach's hand, but you're like,
all of a sudden, oh, thisdefensive midfielder gets

(17:42):
swapped out for an attacker andyou're like, oh, you just get
excited just by that.
But it requires strategy andthe ability to convey that to
the players, as Coach rightlypoints out.
Boss, walk us through the restof this.
Yeah, go ahead, coach.
Yeah, sorry.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Jose Mourinho, right?
Am I saying that correctly,coach?
Yeah, sorry, jose Mourinho,right?
Am I saying that correctly,coach?
Yeah, yeah, saying about thesubstitutions or whatever he

(18:27):
talked about, um, he was in agame situation where they needed
to score and he had to decidewhen do we get aggressive?
And he explained, and I waslike it's pretty rare that
someone says something strategywise that I go, I have never
thought of that that way ever inmy life, wow.
And and he said something I waslike I thought it was
fascinating.
He said that he wanted to waitbecause when they were away,

(18:55):
when a team needs to score, thecrowd goes nuts because they
want them to score.
They're like trying to urgethem on, but when the team is
hoping not to be scored upon,the crowd gets tense and quiet.
And he didn't want them urgedon and he didn't want them

(19:15):
excited, so he held and he heldand he held, so that by the time
they were aggressive, it waslike too late for all that other
stuff to take hold.
And I was like God, like I saidstuff to take hold.
And I was like God, like, likeI said, it's pretty rare that
I'm like.
I never even like have thoughtthat before and I thought that
was like an amazing insight.

(19:36):
So anyway, like a slow clapkind of moment, yeah.
Like wow, Damn.
You do a psychology on the wholedamn stadium Like Damn.
You're doing psychology on thewhole damn stadium Like okay,
okay, so anyway there you go.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
It's very true, Very true.
Boss, walk us through the restof this please.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, I definitely love that.
So Ted comes in he says I'mgoing to shoot you all straight.
This is bleak, yeah, I mean,look at it out.
There Looks like a Renaissancepainting portraying masculine
melancholy and then shot out thewindow where they are in fact
all sitting around Isaac, frontand center, fist on chin, hand

(20:14):
on thigh, just sitting andthinking.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
That really made me laugh.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
You know it is unique and hysterical.
I mean, like it's such a random, the intelligence required to

(20:46):
like yes, make this aRenaissance painting.
Like you just go like Bravo, Iwouldn't have thought of it, I
think it's just like.
Again, it's the type of thingwhere you're like where the fuck
did that come from?
And like then they pull it offand and you and you look at it
as a viewer and you go yep, likeright, right away, like oh yeah
, no.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
As soon as the cut happened I was like oh my god,
nicely done, y'all does yeahthat's exactly right, which
means that isaac has now been arodin sculpture and a
Renaissance painting.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
So yes.
And I was going to.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
I was going to highlight, there may be a, an
art history major, with somedecision-making power, and all
this because I I don't want totime travel, but art and sort of
like famous, sort of I don'tmean classical era, but sort of
like classic names in arthistory come up throughout the
series.
So that's all I think about.
It's true, but he is a Rodinsculptor in cleats, you're right

(21:31):
yeah, even more so now that heis the captain somehow.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I don't know how it's even more like a bigger, more
imposing force the sculpture,but anyway says okay, so what
now?
What are we going to do?
We should abandon the falsenine.
It did work if we had theplayers who knew what they were
fucking doing is what Nate said.
And then there's some glancesaround the room about how no,

(22:00):
that's not, that's not actuallyhow you coach.
And Ted says yeah, I don'tagree it.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
It is, though, you do blame the players.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Obviously yeah, it's good coaching.
Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
A good carpenter blames his tools, I think that's
the saying.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Every bad set I ever had was because of a sucky
audience.
Just in case anybody's everwondering.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, I mean well listen, if you had been smarter.
I mean well listen, if you hadbeen smarter, you would have
understood what my movie meant.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
That's right, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Jesus Christ, when people do that shit.
Yeah, I don't agree, nate.
You know I think we got tostick with it.
Man, you know, they just had 45minutes to figure out what not
to do.
What do you think, roy?
And Roy says you should askthem.
They're the ones out there thatare actually doing this shit
and everybody takes them forbeat.

(22:50):
But they're like all right,yeah, let's go fucking ask them.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
So I got very excited .
At this point, you all might begathering that the coaching
elements of this particularepisode really jumped out at me,
but I think it's so important.
I have a whole system aroundthis actually, no joke.
Uh, line athletics, check itout.
No, but really a whole thing.
But I'm all about, you gottaget the players to buy into what

(23:18):
the fuck you're doing.
At some point now that happensdifferent ways, like when I'm
working with little kids.
They just trust me, right.
They're like coach orlando'scoached for a long time and he
knows what he's talking about,and the other players who play
for him seem to do well, so fuckit.
If he tells me to run over here, I will, but different times it
happens different ways.

(23:38):
But you, I had a girlsbasketball team.
They actually countersignedeach other's contracts with
their commitments to the team.
So, okay, you play shittydefense.
I'm like, don't look at me.
My understanding was we agreedthat we are tough.
Did we agree that?
Yes, was that tough defense?
No, okay, so is that on me oris that on you?
I think there's a power youhand over to the players that

(24:02):
makes it even more potent, andwe're going to see it in a
moment.
But I think there's really.
I think, god, like they wouldnot have come up with that
without Roy there.
And how in line?
I didn't mean to bring it up insuch close proximity, but how
in line is that with?
I'm not in the locker room.
I can't look in their eyes Likehe gets it, like it's.

(24:23):
It's what's going on in theseguys that's going to make it go,
so anyway.
I would say last rant, but weall know that's a fucking lie.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Oh, that's absolutely not going to be true.
No, I really like what you said, especially about the buy-in
happening in different ways.
I think you have maybementioned Coach Cower Is that
his name?
He's the one that saidsometimes you yell at the kid
and sometimes you have toencourage him, right?
Am I thinking of the right one,coach?
Who was that?
Was that?

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Bill Cowher.
No, no, it wasn't Cowher.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Oh damn it All right, I'm only saying that because it
wasn't.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Cowher, but you're in the right ballpark.
Sorry, sorry, sorry, I mean I.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's like when I heard him on NPR's Wait, wait,
don't Tell Me which is where Iam most exposed to athletes.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
I think that's what he said, Then maybe also Anyway
no, the buy-in piece is big.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I think I like so much that a lot of businesses
and organizations anything thatis mission-driven understands
that you have to have buy-infrom the participants.
I am hoping that very soon inthe future we understand that
buy-in comes in different forms.
I think I've mentioned before,but the organization I work for
has been encouraging us.
They want us to buy in byhaving us work with our

(25:37):
teammates, our coworkers, more,come into the office physically,
see people and they're likethen you will care more about
your coworkers and more aboutthe job and more about the
mission.
And I'm like you don't you havenot met me, apparently, because
this is not no like the factthat you thought I would do my
job better because I like mycoworkers more is offensive.
I don't.

(25:57):
I don't like that whatsoever.
So I think the next step is likeoh, I don't like it at all, I'm
gonna do my job.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
This is really interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I'm like not kidding, I I swear to god I've mentioned
this before.
No, like I'm gonna shedefinitely has, but like yeah
yeah I'm gonna kick my job's ass, because I kick ass at my job,
that's what I'm gonna do.
I show up and I do that shitand I like my co-workers just
fine, but how much I like themis not going to make me do
accounting better I'm gonnaaccount, I'm gonna do my fucking

(26:27):
job.
That's what I yeah so I feellike we need to figure out the
ways of getting all of thepeople to buy in with that shit
and not just say like, oh, yourespond to money, so we're gonna
give you.
Well, like, yeah, okay, butwhat else will I respond to?
How do we do this?
Anyway?
That's there's my rant, anddefinitely not the last one.
Um, so, right after that, afterroy says you should ask them

(26:51):
they're the ones out there doingthis shit they said yeah, all
right, all right.
Fellas coach and I are having alittle debate and want to get
y'all's take on it.
Should we stick with the falsenine or switch it up?
And I look around and finally,they are shocked though.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
They don't just look around they're like what is
happening in this room right now.
So yeah, is what to highlight.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, a little bit of like, is this happening?
Yeah, are we doing the like.
Are they really asking usReally?
Alright, I mean, I don't thinkthat it should be shocking to
them at this point, but yeah,but depending on the coach by
kartrick that's true.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Yeah, depending on the type of player, it could
subvert um confidence in thecoaching staff.
If it's done, if it'smishandled.
You know like it's one thing toget buy-in and it's another
thing to like seem like you'rerudderless like we don't know
but you guys know, I don't know,like it's up, you know.
But I do like the way that it'slike, okay, like you're
rudderless, like we don't know,you guys know, I don't know,
like it's up, you know, but I dolike the way that it's like

(27:50):
okay, well, we're having adisagreement yeah, we want to
get you to.
You know, we want to get yourtake I'm not necessarily going
to be the way we go, but I.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
I feel like if, if my boss came to me and said we
have an account that we need toset up, do you want to do it
this way or this way, then hewould be asking for my expertise
on that.
If he came to me one day and hewas like so what do you think
we should do with all of this?
So how do you think we shouldrun this place?
Vaguely, gestures.

(28:18):
So what's up with this?
The first one is like yes, Ibelieve that you want my input.
The second one is oh, who thefuck is steering this place?
Who's in charge?
So I do understand what youmean.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah, people want to know they're in good hands.
Yeah, also, I think input toask what you think is not to say
we're going to do whatevercomes out of your mouth next Yep
, and I think that's differentthan like you're saying, going
like so accounts.

Speaker 4 (28:43):
What's up?

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, Well, this is also you is also the trick that
you have with all little kids,where you don't say what do you?

Speaker 3 (28:50):
want to eat.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Do you want Cheerios or pancakes?
What do you?

Speaker 3 (28:56):
want.
That saved my ass as a parent.
I didn't know that right out ofthe gate, I'm not kidding.
When I learned it it was likeno magic trick I had ever seen.
I felt like David Blaine ofparenting.
It was amazing what the fuck?
Because I would say somethingcrazy like you guys want

(29:19):
something to drink, and somehow,with two kids, I'd have five
drink orders and I'd be likewhat the fuck is happening.
And suddenly it was do you want?
Yes, right, whatever water ormilk.
And it was yeah, anyway asideyeah, no, it's, it's the best um
, we get a series of reactionshots, and then what happens?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
uh.
And then yan mas stands up andsays the tactic is sound and
we're perfectly capable ofexecuting it.
It will work.
And they all kind of agree,yeah.
And then, uh, they say hey, ifyan ma says it, you know it's
the truth, right, ted?
Uh, very, very casuallyside-eyeing his dutchness.

(30:04):
Um, he says I wouldn't lie toyou, because of course he
wouldn't.
For instance, zorro, you shouldhave saved that first goal.
He says bro.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
That was funny.
I'm glad they laughed in theroom.
It was super, jan Maas, but Ithink there's something to be
taken from it too.
And it's Coach, when he talkedabout the Diamond Dogs session
and letting that Ted kind oflike cutting that off before
Beard headbutts Nate or whatever.
Yeah, this is a perfect exampleof Yanma said two things

(30:39):
Equally, transparently honest.
One was necessary, one wastotally fucking unnecessary, one
was helpful.
One was totally fuckingunnecessary.
One was helpful, one wastotally not helpful.
And I think where we are able torecognize what moves us all
forward and what really doesn'tis just some shit that was in my
head that I now want to putoutside of my head.

(30:59):
I think can make a bigdifference in how all this kind
of communication goes down.
I think they have been valued.
Like if I, if I were just arandom Jan Maas advisor somehow,
if I could just be sitting ontheir shoulder, I'd be like stop
right there, just stop.
I wouldn't lie to you.
Boom, we're done here, Let themgo.
You don't have to say this toZerro, it's not going to be
helpful, don't worry about it.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
Coach, one of the big errors of your life, your life
oh this will be good, oh god isthat you fell in love with
sports that don't have goalies.
And because I'll tell you that,because you're a defense,
you're a defensive coach byheart, but you have to, you have
to take listen, because nothingchanges.
Nothing changes a game like agoalie, a hockey goalie, who's a

(31:43):
wall?

Speaker 3 (31:44):
I've heard that.
I've heard that a hockey goaliesolves everything, everything.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
If you cannot score, even when you should score.
You'll see these things inhockey where it's like 2-1-0.
That's a guaranteed goalie.
Two guys coming down, nodefender and the goalie somehow
sucks In soccer.
I watched the other day awomen's championship and it was
Chelsea versus United,manchester United and Mary Earps

(32:11):
, who's the England teamnational goalie we call her
Merps for people who love her.
She's just incredible.
She's the United goalie andChelsea had like 40 shots and
they lost.
Chelsea was way favored to blow, blow you night.
I don't think they actually.

(32:31):
I think everyone lost theirshit because they hadn't ever
beaten or something.
It was some crazy thing.
It was like in you know 15years, something crazy.
Like like you know, you knowthe, the rich richmond uh
beating, um, who was it?
Uh, we haven't done it in 60years.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Who plays in Liverpool?

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Oh right, I'll look it up.
It's the episode we were justtalking about.
You got it.
You got it, go ahead, coach.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
When you have a goalie, take over a game, it
changes, it changes everything.
It really and you and you coachhave fallen in love with sports
where you have to take that andtrade it, you know, make it
happy it's sort of sort ofdistributed among a number of
players.
A great defensive play,comparable to goalie in baseball

(33:29):
, is like a pitcher you can'thit If you cannot hit a pitcher
you can't not.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Momentum is the next day starting pitcher.
Yeah, I got it.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
I get that Right and somehow you've coached
basketball, you've coachedfootball, you've coached these
sports where you have to sort of.
You don't get the luxury of awall of just one person who is
out of their fucking mind andjust keeps everything out of the
cage or the net.
Um, and so it's reallyinteresting.
Um, and I bring that up becauseyeah, that's a good, that's

(34:01):
okay yeah, I get that.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
There's a cultural I mean cultural in terms of the
sport culture, the culture of agame that call out would be a
little different than, let's say, on an American football team
if he had turned to a cornerbackand been like, oh you shouldn't
have let that wide receiverbeat you.
It's a different dynamic.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah, because, god forbid, when you want the goalie
to step up, and they do, it'stremendous.
But when they let in soft goals, man, that like kills you
Because you're like, okay, atleast do the basics.
Yeah, stop the soft ones.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andre Agassi, famous tennisplayer, world-class player.
What was his strength?

(34:42):
His strength was not that thebig thing for, for tennis
players is they.
They hammer, uh, serves, youknow, a million miles an hour
you can't return them right.
Andre agassi's world was at thetime, the world's best returner.
You can hit it as hard, but ashard as you want, but that
motherfucker is gonna put itback over the net.

(35:03):
It was insane.
So you had the big.
The big matches would be petesampras, who was a server right
right he could hit the ballanywhere, on any part of the box
and then somehow this littlepipsqueak, andre agassi, would
get the ball back.
And now you have to now.
Now your skill set changes now.
It's just not about hammering.
Now you got to run up to thenet and can.

(35:24):
Now, can he put it by?
So, again, defensively.
I think when yan ma says this,the only reason I bring it up is
he's like hey man, like wecould have been down one nil,
but like tighten up back thereyeah, that's.
That's all I think I got, andeverybody smiles because they
all knew it okay.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
So he's he okay.
So this is actually myexperience of it.
It isn't totally opposite, butit sounds like it's almost like
he let the air out of thatparticular balloon by going
ahead and saying it so thateverybody wouldn't be feeling it
, going back out on the fieldLike, oh, now we got to make up
two goals because this fuckingguy.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
Yes, I got you.
It's a big thing when a goaliegoes.
It's a very hockey thing.
Hey, sorry, I let in that asoft goal there, boys.
Oh no, don't worry about it,schmitty, it's good.
Like no, no, we should havebeen a back check.
You know, it's like this whole,but you just like own it.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
A soft goal really kills your spirit, because it
because you work so hard inthese sports just to get
anything.
So, anyway, keep going here,boss.
So also it was Everton.
Was the club Everton?
Yes, right, and they hadn't wonin 80 some odd years.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Something preposterous Cause.
I remember.
I remember beard going God man.

Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yeah, yeah, listen, sorry boss.
He says, okay, it's beendecided, we're going to stick
with Nate's false nine.
I'm like, oh man, I know whathe's doing here to say Nate's
false nine.
He's trying to show like his Iwish he got boss has got the
funniest face.
She's like yeah, that's not howNate's hearing it right now

(37:29):
no-transcript so.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
I want to.
If my father, gaspar AlejandroBishop, were here, he would say
Nate is miserable.
You know, he's just kind of amiserable fucking guy in this
moment.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
What would he say?
Say it again.
Nate is miserable.
You know, he's just kind of amiserable fucking guy in this
moment.
What would he say?
Say it again.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Nate is miserable, you know.
And what he would mean bymiserable is like when
somebody's being miserable, inthat context, the way they use
it, it's like no matter what thefuck happens, this person is
going to be miserable.
So we think we're like makingchoices.
It's like no Nate is to bemiserable.
So we think we're makingchoices.
It's like no, nate is beingfucking miserable.

(38:11):
So if Ted had come in and goneyeah, false sign's not working,
we're going back to what we do4-4-2, blah, blah, blah, blah
Then Nate would be like oh, thisfucking guy is tossing my shit
in the crapper.
Blah, blah, blah, we stick withit.
If they come in and stick withit, it's like oh, he's trying to
fuck me now.
Blah, blah, blah.

(38:31):
Oh, they went to the players toask them, as if the players
fucking know it doesn't matter,it doesn't Like.
Nate is past the part where youcan fix any of this Like he has
decided.
I mean anybody who's on eitherside of this in a breakup I
always laugh about the thingthat he's so funny can easily
become.
This fucking guy thinkseverything's a joke once you're

(38:54):
out of love, and I just thinkthat's where he is at this point
.
If Ted literally was like he'dbe like.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
Now he's making a big fucking joke out of me in front
of the players, or he just doesit Exactly He'd be like.
Now he's making a big fuckingjoke out of me in front of the
players.
Why don't I have a clown with?

Speaker 3 (39:09):
a funny red nose.
Exactly, it doesn't matter.
He is done.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
And not to get too far down.
This because I think in thelast episode we just analyzed
Nate a lot, but when you aretrying to fix a problem with
things that aren't the problem,this is what happens.
He is miserable for otherreasons.
So whatever Ted does is goingto make him miserable because he
is miserable.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Correct, yeah, correct, and.
And coach, thank you forbringing up um.
Uh, you know, it's so nice tohave a funny partner.
I'm sure it will never be thecriticism.
This asshole never takesanything seriously.
I'm guessing you and I havenever heard that.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
oh no, it's just because we're very funny and we
probably probably nevertranslates.
If ever you want to know howfunny I am, you should ask
daphne the number of times shehas just stared at me like I had
choices in this life and Ifucking married you like juliana
juliana was visiting one of her, one of her best friends from

(40:10):
college, and and she married.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
Um, uh name is betsy and rob.
So juliana is visiting betsyand her husband rob.
Rob is so fucking fun.
Rob hurts my insides.
He's so funny and betsy neverlaughs at rob.
And so when juliana visits rob,it's like the height.
He's so funny and betsy neverlaughs at rob.
And so when juliana visits rob,it's like the height.
He's so excited when she'sthere because she can't stop

(40:34):
laughing oh yeah, you know whatI mean.
Great he's like, oh she's likemy wife, never, ever.
This guy is like comedian love.
Everything he says makes youwant to you know whatever.
So I so I just think it's.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Does not matter.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
Does not matter, you've heard it all.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
I will then, because you know it's the kind of shit I
find funny, like making you go,why are we doing this show?
I then will lean into all thejokes Like I like, then I don't
knock it off.
And then Daphne, like she justlike this, is a murderous rage
behind those beautiful eyes ofhers Simmer down now Simmer down

(41:09):
.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
All right, boss, keep going.
It's been decided we're goingto stick with Night's False man.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Trying to give the guy credit, Said, hey, Captain,
Then they all get in.
They're, all you know, on threethe hands in.
Hey, Captain, you going to joinus.
And Isaac is in the background.
He's still sitting on three thehands in.
Hey, Captain, you're going tojoin us.
Isaac is in the background.
He's still sitting down.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
He's not in the group Boss, hold on one sec Before we
get too far down the road.
Just look at the look.
What do you make of this look?
Is it because he said Nate'sfalse night?
There's a shot.
Coach pointed out a beautifulshot of like sort of down the
line cinematographers geek outabout shots of people in a row

(41:55):
and they cannot get.
It's like they'll take a job.
It's catnip, it's unbelievable.
No, no, you're right, I neverthought about it that way, but
you're 100 correct I have afriend that that landed a like a
ridiculous cinematographer onone of his projects, one film,
feature film he was making.
And after the fact thecinematographer revealed yeah, I
just had that one, I knewyou're gonna, I knew who was

(42:17):
cast.
I saw these three in my mind andI wanted to take that beauty
shot of all three of them it waslike the one of the last shots
of the film, but it's like, yeah, so this is what you have.
And it's crazy because you haveroy, ted beard out of focus
right and nate in focus, deep,yeah, and and he's looking at

(42:39):
ted with.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
I mean, if looks could kill yeah, and there's
part like hurt, like I think hisinterpretation of this moment
is oh so now we're going to loseand you're going to make sure I
can be blamed.
That's what I kind of gatheredfrom it, which, ok, so that's
his whole stuff going on, butvisually you really made me stop
and think about this shot.
And this is this episode isreally well done.

(43:02):
You know, ted Lasso is a goodshow.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
You know I don't know if you guys noticed.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Yeah, man, you know Ted Lasso's a good show.
I don't know if you guys knowthis.
So there are a few things goingon here I want to call out.
So there's the frame within theframe, which I always find
interesting and by which I mean,for those of you who aren't
familiar it's just you use theobjects or characters in the, in
the scene, to bring in theedges of the frame, so like the
area where you're focusing issmaller because you're using

(43:30):
those pieces.
I mean.
So we use the, we use roy, tedand beard to take away almost
half the screen and then justabout dead.
And they're.
They're a mess, like the waythey're shot.
They're not individual people,right like they.
Not individual people.
There's literally no spacebetween them.
They're overlapping, they'relike a wall there.

(43:52):
And then Nate is one not inline, and then, because of the
height of the camera, the factthat he's shorter than them is
also accentuated.
They are taller than us.
We are on nate's level, soyou're really experiencing his
smallness and his aloneness, andthe word right over his head is

(44:14):
false.
Now, come the fuck on.
That is some serious goddamnshot composition, right there.
Yeah, I just saw the false, I'mlike get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
That's a really nice work right there and listen for
those people that aren't in thebusiness.
Cinematographers and directorsgeek out about this stuff.
Oh 100%.
Yeah, this is a shot where theywoke up.
First of all, sometimes you canstoryboard it and so you draw
it out ahead of time and you canplan it.
But sometimes it's like wait,wait, we have the white board.

(44:52):
Oh my god, we can actuallyhighlight, you know, using that.
Yeah, yeah, it's like, it'slike just just nudge it a little
bit, oh my god, or, you know,you slide the camera over it's
uh, it's, it's like crack, um.
Okay, boss, sorry, we've, we'veheld off long going, please
sorry.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I can't believe that you guys went down a tangent.
That's fucking ridiculous.
Yeah, so after that Nate'sspecific call out, everybody's
in the huddle.
Ted looks over, notices Isaac,says hey, captain, you gonna
join us.
And Isaac gets up, walk, walksaround the huddle and reaches

(45:31):
over.
Sorry, walks through the huddleand then goes up and puts his
hand on the belief sign boss.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
Boss is is a tough cookie, but I get misty every
single time.
I am emotional right now.
I've seen this 25 times, rightevery time when he walks in, I
did not know what he was doingwhen he pushed I didn't, I
didn't know.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, I was like what's he doing?

Speaker 4 (46:03):
is he like quitting?
Like what, what?
What is happening?
He like it's really weird.
Anytime you have your hands inthe center, nobody goes and
pushes through the hands andbreaks them up.
That's psychotic.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Yeah, it's actually for a moment.
It seems like he's trying tobreak up the team.
Yeah, what is happening?
What are you doing?

Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah, and I was like, is this a moses reference?
I was like, what am I?
What am I looking at?
Yeah, where he's partingeverything, and he walks up I, I
, I almost I don't know if I cansay it, it gets me so emotional
.
He walks up and he puts hisfucking hand on the belief sign
and I'm not I'm the one thatthat rails against the concept

(46:46):
of believe and makes you know,makes I, I I've talked about it,
this whole podcast, about yougot to be real careful about
belief, um, but in this context,man, oh boy, it is isaac, of
all people too, fuckingrhinoceros, you know, like he's
such a, he's such a like a, justlike this, like this, this

(47:07):
force of nature, and so, yes, hebarges through everybody, right
, it's like so, once you see itand you see what he does, then
it makes complete.
It's like, of course, that'swhat he did.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
It's amazing.
Yes to everything you just said.
This one definitely hits mehard and in part, I mean, you
know, as, as we've establishedseveral times in this
conversation I um, I really, inthis episode in particular,
connect to the coaching pieceand when you see if you're ted

(47:44):
in this moment, when you seethat they got it now, yeah, that
is, I mean, I guess, maybe notfor every coach, but for me,
where I'm invested on that level, when I'm like, oh, you got it
now, like you, you, you don'tneed me.
I'm pretty sure I told thestory before.
I was getting some kids readyfor this championship game.

(48:04):
These boys and, um, you know,final practice.
We were, if, if people bet onmiddle school games, we would
have been heavy bettingfavorites, and so they were.
So they were super, they weregetting really lax in practice
and I and I went off, right, I,like I went off and I was like

(48:25):
you can lose this game.
Do you hear me?
You're going to run everythingwe did and you're going to throw
it away.
Right, hold me.
So we keep practicing and atone point the quarterback is on
the center and they jumped, theyfalse, started, which is, for
those of you who don't knowAmerican football, like all the
players, all the offensiveplayers, have to move at the
same time when the ball moves.

(48:46):
And one of the players movedearly and the quarterback just
stood up and said come on, guys,let's go.
And they just went and ran downand back and I turned to the
assistant oh, they ran like alap.
I didn't say a word.
No, like I'm out there withanother coach.
Neither of us said a word.
And they ran down and back andwe both looked at each other

(49:08):
like it is fucking over.
They punished themselves.
Yeah, the game is over, it isall done now.
But the shout and we are gonnafucking crush this.
But yeah, so to me like to goand touch to believe.
And also, you're talking abouta guy who, the first time he did
this, had them break on whatwas it?

(49:28):
Eight or twelve or whatever?
Oh God.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
So how far has he come?
And he skipped nine orsomething.
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
So how far has this guy come.
So anyway, love it.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
All you boss.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
All me.
So after Isaac puts his hand up, he looks back at everyone else
and I think it's key that atthis point Nate sort of shakes
his head Like he can't believethat this is what they're doing.
He's already gone, he's alreadyso far out Like he is fucking
done.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Actually, that's a great Actually.
That is.
You know, boss.
I don't know if you meant thatfor that to be as prophetic as
it, but you're right.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Oh, he's out, he's already gone.
He's completely checked outalready.
Absolutely no interest in thisclub.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
When was he gone?
When did he go?
I mean, walking in that blacksuit was definitely a sign that,
wherever it was, it was behindhim.
I mean okay, but he was stillcheering for them during the
game.
In his own way, he was likestill do this thing.
I think, once it became Okay,is it because he just doesn't

(50:41):
have the belief, he doesn'tunderstand the teamwork, he
doesn't understand the unitythat it takes, the togetherness,
the shared goals.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
It's that none of those things worked for him.
It's that none of those thingsgave him what he wanted, which
is to be the most respectedperson in the room.
And so it doesn't matter if it'strue or not.
It's not right for him.
Now that we've been talkingabout it a little bit, I believe

(51:11):
a lot of what he was doing uh,leaking about Ted's panic
attacks, kissing Keely, being adick in general Some of it was
him wanting to flex and show offthat he could be in charge.
I think the last few the thingswithin the last few days on the
show off that he could be incharge.
I think the last few the thingswithin the last few days on the
show keely and um trent werehim throwing a tantrum, acting

(51:33):
out rebelling because he wantedted to respond to it and because
ted didn't give him that, Ithink a lot of things culminated
.
But I think he was expecting tedto come in and say, like, what
the fuck did you do?
Because at least then he knowshe's important to Ted.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's negative energy.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I thought about that to a
certain point, but you've takenit for like a lot deeper than I
was going with it and I thinkyou're a hundred percent right.
I think.
If, yeah, I think you're rightI think if at some point ted had
jumped up and down, then hewould at least feel like at

(52:12):
least I matter to you but,because ted was letting it go.
He felt ignored.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
That's interesting even when, when he gave that
look to ted just now, ted waslooking at the team ted.
Ted was focused.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
He didn't realize this is a dance we're doing also
appropriately so, though, likeI think part of what we have to
recognize with nate is nate isabout nate.
This, this version of him,certainly he's about nate, and
whether that was always true,but he was so powerless that we

(52:43):
didn't mind it, or whetherwhatever.
At this point he is just allabout Nate.
And so even the idea, like Nate, nobody's worrying about you or
your motherfucking false ninewe're touching the believe sign.
We're on some other shit.
You could be on that with us.
You have not chosen that andyou want to make that about us
fucking up your day.
We wouldn't think about you, wewould think about the team.

(53:05):
We were thinking about the team, just like right now.
Maybe Yann Mas ain't a big fanof the false nine, but he knows
it could work and so he's like,yeah, fuck it, let's do it,
let's make it work.
I'm sure Jamie would love tojust run around and do whatever
the fuck he wants, but he'sdoing the right thing.
So Nate's not getting that.
It's not about you, bro, it'sjust not.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Can you tell?
I'm about to have a teammeeting on Sunday.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
I'm going into some serious coach mode here.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
We got our hands on the belief signs.
It ain't about yourmotherfucking false nine bro.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
No, what are you doing Like talk about missing
the fucking point.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
I mean, that's the thing, though, with him is that
the point is they're not payingattention to him.
This is the area in which he issupposed to excel, that he is
supposed to be given recognition, and it's not about him, and
that's what he's pissed offabout.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
And what's fascinating is, if he would just
calm the fuck down Can't, can'tdo it he could hear that he's
getting all kinds.
He was getting credit when hewas still a literal shit kicker
Can't do it that guy's a genius.
Maybe he'll know more soccer.
You know more football thanI'll ever know.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Yeah, dad just doesn't love him enough, can't
do it.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
All right.
So everybody's got their handsup on the Believe sign, richmond
on three Richmond.
And then, like you're saying,coach, everybody gets it.
If you get it, you get it.
And Ted like kind of nodsappreciatively and Nate looks
completely nonplussed.

(54:36):
He's like are you fuckingkidding me?
Like he's so, like I shouldn'tbe laughing about it because
it's I shouldn't be laughingabout it, but you know it is
it's.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
I shouldn't be laughing about it, but you know
it's hilarious though, becauseit can be very, very funny when
someone is unhappy as otherpeople are very happy.
Yeah, yeah, that someone else'shappiness makes someone unhappy
Like that is something we'veseen in movies forever.
Make someone unhappy like thatis something we've seen in

(55:10):
movies forever.
That's like the end of half theold, like disney.
You know, kid movies was, youknow some some jerk stomping off
into the distance because theydidn't get their way right.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
I mean, you know, the great nelly olsen perfected the
craft um, it's true, johnlarroquette ending up in in, uh,
like Us, he ends up stationedin Antarctica or something
that's right, that's right.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
You know what I mean.
So, yeah, so I think you know.
Right now, as he stands therein his black suit and is, you
know, just having sold Ted out,there's a reason you find it
funny that things can't go wellenough for him.
Like, the better they go, themore angry he's going to be,
which is insane.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
Yeah, no, it's nuts.
And so he everyone else runsout, beard follows.
You know, roy's already out thedoor with the players.
Beard taps Ted on the chest andgoes by, and then it's like
Nate and Ted.
Oh wait, did I, did I say thatwrong?
Boss looked at me like I saidit wrong.
Beard taps.
No, he taps Ted on the chest.
Yes, he goes by.
I didn't know if I accidentallysaid he taps Nate on the chest,

(56:12):
just looking around.
See that you don't move yourhead while I'm talking.
Please, boss, if that'spossible.
Jesus, jesus, with all thelooking.
But yeah, so now she's nodding,thank you.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Thank you for the affirmation.
Now I'm only moving my head,smile and nod, and not make any
noise.
Yeah, how dare I?

Speaker 4 (56:34):
Yeah, so Beard is out , it's just Ted and Nate.
And Ted notices Nate's vector,which is not heading the same
direction.
Coach Not going.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Like literally not going in the same direction as
the team.
Like literally he heads offinto his office to stew.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
And what happens in here, Coach.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
So Ted comes in, nate's facing away from the door
.
Ted comes in, stands sort oflike straddling the doorway hey,
nate is everything okay.
Yes, ted, everything's okay.
He says as dramatically as hepossibly can.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
There's a moment here , there's a moment where Ted can
pull it back right.
So look, when he goes, hey,nate, and Nate says hey, there's
like a hey moment oh yeah, Iguess he still hasn't?

Speaker 3 (57:31):
he can sell it.
Yeah, he can sell that.

Speaker 4 (57:33):
He was just saying hey well, I guess, I guess, but
it's also like I.
I still see a tiny bit of doubton on nate, like he, like uh,
darth sidious hasn't completelycaptured his soul yet.
Oh, I see.
If the next thing out of Ted'smouth.
No no boss says no.
What are you looking at, boss?

Speaker 2 (57:54):
What is it Please?

Speaker 3 (57:56):
just get him Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
No, no, no.
I think that when we aretalking about so, I don't
believe that any person isirredeemable, I don't.
I think, even if you areabsolute garbage, if you have
done nothing, if you have donenothing but absolute garbage
your entire life, you couldstill theoretically switch that
up, stop doing garbage andbecome I don't want to even say

(58:22):
a decent person, but a personthat does decent things, or one
decent, even say a decent person, but a person that does decent
things or one decent right.
You guys both have this sort oflike who you are underneath,
blah, blah, blah you havementioned.
I should at least say both ofyou have talked about what you
do versus who you are, and I amof the Batman Begins mindset in

(58:46):
that it's not who you areunderneath, it's what you do
that matters.
Your actions are how peoplejudge you.
I don't know what you'rethinking, and what you're
thinking could be a lie, but Ican see what you do and I can
make judgments on that.
So Nate as a person when yousaid Dark Sidious hasn't gotten
his claws all the way into himyet.
Maybe I don't fucking know.

(59:07):
I know, based on the end ofthis episode, that Nate is
already checked out of this teamand doesn't want to be here
anymore.
It feels like he's not beingappreciated, has said to his
coworkers that he doesn't feellike he's been given enough
recognition.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
Correct.
I just see in this moment I'mnot disputing that and I love
thank you for the Batman Begins.
I just see, in this moment I'mnot saying I'm not disputing
that and I love thank you forthe Batman Begins rep.
I'm a big fan of that movie.
It's great, just really enjoyit.
But I just see this little bit.
You know I We've talked aboutNick Muhammad and just how

(59:43):
skilled he is and there's thisbeat here of doubt right before
he fully gets real nasty withTed.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Here's how I would describe what I see and tell me
if it's just another view ofwhat you're describing.
Okay, I see a bit of thewounded boy, absolutely.
And then so I don't know,spiritually, figuratively,

(01:00:15):
metaphorically, however we wantto talk about it he spits in the
mirror.
Now, this is the spit in themirror.
Yeah, but the spit in themirror is a choice.
Nate is making that when I feelmost exposed for being, you
know, this scared boy orwhatever, weakling, that I will

(01:00:40):
summon it in that way.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
And so he chooses that he's been courting negative
attention this whole time.
He's courting it right.
In lieu of positive attentionto ted, he's courting negative
attention.
And now ted has fully like hishim storming away successfully
got ted's attention.
Now it's just the two of them.
Ted says hey, nate, and he sayshey, and then the next thing

(01:01:05):
out of like, if the next thingthis is just again, there's no
way to know this kind of thing,but just judging from what I'm
seeing on the screen, that'sexactly right.
You're looking at a wounded boywho needs to hear the exact
thing he's looking to hear.
What is the tank, possibly?

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
gonna say I have a time machine and we're gonna go
back to when you were five, likeI don't think Right but it's
not Ted's responsibility.
Ted can't know this, even iflet's say for a second, forget
responsibility, let's say for asecond, what you're saying is
true, that even theoreticallyone could say a thing at a

(01:01:45):
moment like this that pulls aperson back from the press, the
break right of, I'm diving intoyou.
What is he gonna say to himright now?
Because he done said it's nate,we're doing nate's false nine.
Oh, nate, just like he is being, he is past the point, oh for

(01:02:06):
sure.
It's like when a little kid islike I want pizza and you hand
them pizza and they throw thepizza on the floor and scream
and you're like well, what doyou want?
And they say pizza and you go,oh what.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
Oh, coach.
So that's where we are.
Coach, you misunderstand me.
I'm the master of the temporaryfix as a divorced man.
You know how many times Ipulled my ex back from the brink
.
You know what I mean To try tosay, oh, I'll appease her this
way.
You know what I'm saying, likeI'm saying Okay, so what would
you?
Say it's not a fix.

(01:02:40):
It is not a fix.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
I'm saying but at this moment would it be yeah, I
don't like who knows, he has, hehas, I don't know like I feel
like he has done it all I guesswhat I'm saying is maybe, maybe
the important takeaway from thisis the excellence of nick
muhammad.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
To give him not a linear uh, you know, like, like.
There is this sort of roilingself-doubt in this moment, so
it's not this portrayal of Natewhere he's like nah, it's just
like a evil prick right away.
You know, it's like this, thisloss?

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Yeah, we are seeing some, you know yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
And as soon as he's like yo okay, like as soon as,
as soon as he hears some Oakley,doakley, nebraska, horse shit,
whatever and not not to malignthe good people of Omaha, but
I'm just saying in general, whenhe hears that then he Wait,
omaha, omaha, nebraska.
I just threw in Nebraskabecause it was the center of our

(01:03:38):
country, so I was just sayingthat's famously not where he's
from.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Oh I know, I know.
I'm saying, I'm throwing, I'mlumping in the central states
yeah, yeah, yeah, because you'rea festival lead, I got it.
No, no, no, we can continue.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, they'reall, it's all, it's all the same
.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
No, I'm not saying that I love, I've, I have, I
have gone on record on thispodcast to say how much I
actually love omaha, um andnebraska.
I've been in north platte.
I've been to the largest trainswitch yard in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
Some of his best friends in Nebraska.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Yeah, some of his best friends, at least two of
them, two of them he worked with.
I understand what you're sayingabout his wounded face.
I get it.
I do think that that is NickMuhammad being an excellent
actor.
The only thing that I'll say isthat, again, I like to point
out how we interpret and codedifferent behaviors in men, and
that we saw Nate being timid inthe first season and we thought,

(01:04:34):
oh, that means he's sweet.
And we see him being woundedhere and we think, oh, he is
vulnerable, he is damaged.
A wounded animal is often themost dangerous one.
So I understand that he iswounded, but I don't want to say
that that makes him moresympathetic, or anything?

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
yeah, no, excellent point, excellent point.
So we get the hey, and thenwhat happens here, coach?

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
um, I just want to know one thing before we go
forward with the scene, which isbased on what boss just said
and somebody had uh posted thisand really stuck with me which
is, if you don't heal, if youdon't heal where you're wounded,
you'll bleed on people whodidn't cut you yeah, yeah, yeah
you mentioned that one beforeyou like it.
I mean, yeah, it's good shit Imean wow, and I think there's a

(01:05:22):
great example of that.
Yeah coach, because this is notabout what happened in this
building.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
You and I have done that for most of our lives, and
then we've given people whowe've bled on, who didn't
deserve it, quizzical looksabout like what's your fucking
problem?

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Problem, you're not wrong.
I don't know how we got on me.
We're talking about me, no, no,it's all your fault, coach it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:44):
I don't know how we got on me.
We're talking about me, no, no,it's all your fault, coach.
It's all your fault.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
I don't know how I became the goddamn talker I will
say for me, I have definitelydone that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
I have definitely done that and I love that quote.
It's fantastic.
All right, so here we go.
Yes, ted, everything is okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
And then what?
Yeah, very, very snarky, though, very yeah, anyone who's been
married knows that oneEverything is most definitely
not okay.
What is it?
What did I do?
We get from Ted and,interestingly, we're outside at

(01:06:21):
this point.
We are looking into the officethrough the big window and the
doorway.
They are separated by the framethere.
So it's really we are pulledback and out of all this for
that moment when he's askingthat it's like a private moment
that we're kind of keeping in onRight, yep.
So he asked.

(01:06:42):
Then he has what have I got tolearn here?
Which is, you know, know, it'sborderline rosa parks in the
donut, I mean.
But okay, say it that way ifthat's the way you want to say
it.
Um, you don't know what you did.
Nate starts, yeah, please.
Okay, I'll tell you what youdid.
You made me feel like I was themost important person in the

(01:07:02):
world, and then you abandoned me, like you switched off.
You switched out a light, justlike that, and I worked my ass
off trying to get your attentionback, to prove myself to you,
to make you like me again.
But the more, the more I did,the less you cared.
It was like I was fuckinginvisible.
You haven't got that photo Igave you for christmas up in

(01:07:23):
your office, just a picture ofdumb Americans.
Now you're going to play Nate'sfalse nine, so when the team
fuck up which they will, hey,you can blame it on me.
Well, no, fuck that.
Everybody loves you.
Now we're really getting towhere we are.
The great Ted Lasso.
Well, I think you're a fuckingjoke.

(01:07:43):
Without me, you wouldn't havewon a single match.
They would have shipped yourass back to Kansas, where you
belong with your son, becauseyou sure as hell don't belong
here, but I do, I belong here.
This didn't just fall into mylap.
All right, I earned this.
I know you didn't, nate, and ifI didn't tell you how important

(01:08:04):
you were to me enough, I'msorry about that.
No, you know what?
You're full of shit.
Just fuck you, ted, and see, itwas a lot.
It was a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
I mean dumb Americans .
In what world is that true?

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
yeah, I can't think of any situation.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
Aren't we God's chosen people For our friends
outside of the boundaries of theUnited States?
I just want to inform you thatwe are.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
I just wanted to let you know, because you didn't
hear any propaganda.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
No, luckily, all of us were born into the right
religion, uh, geographically,wherever we were born, and uh,
and we happen to be, uh, thechosen people, I know you are
also wherever you are in theworld you've been given the line
that you're the chosen people.
It's incorrect that you're thechosen people.
I just want everyone to knowthat uh, that's my dumb
americans are the chosen I, Ialways.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
I wish I could remember the exact quote, but
somebody wrote or saidessentially it really is amazing
of all the people to whom Godspeaks, he always agrees with
what they thought in the firstplace.
I think that is a brilliantassessment.
I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):
Anyhow, we always talk about Coach and I want to
make a short film about all thepeople that lose ballgames.
And you know, when people win aballgame, you know big oh, yeah
, yeah yeah, and they say likeoh God was with us today.
I just want to interview allthe people that lose Like, oh
man, we didn't pray hard enough,like we should have been

(01:09:42):
praying.
Instead, we were doing thesedrills, these shooting drills.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
But it goes to show anyway I don't want to take it
too far, but it goes to showlike how off base we are,
because actually, that isabsolutely certainly I can speak
to the Christian tradition Iwas raised in.
That would be the appropriateresponse.
It would be I thank you for theloss.

(01:10:09):
Maybe it's something for me tolearn from this loss.
Maybe it's something for me tolearn about preparation.
Maybe I just have to learn thatsometimes my best isn't good
enough.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
There is an actual prayer to be said in
thanksgiving for a loss, but itspeaks to our general
misunderstanding of the wholething that we would only say it
when we win well, there's a lot,absolutely right, there's a ton
to unpack here and, uh, youknow, when nate takes a shot,

(01:10:39):
you should be in canvas, whereyou belong, with your kit, like
that, that is.
That is such a low blow.
I can't even.
I was like god, go ahead, boss,go well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
It reminded me a lot of um uh tracy jordan on 30 rock
telling kenneth we're not bestfriends, we're just good friends
.
And I kind of want to be likehey, nate, he's your boss, like
he's your boss, like he is yourboss, he isn't your dad, he
isn't your best friend.
If he were your best friend,then this kind of shit about his

(01:11:12):
son and the dumb Americans andeverything else would be really
dirty fighting.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
Like I understand that he is having a lot of
emotions and I'm not trying topretend that he isn't
experiencing them, but I'msaying he is projecting his
anger on somebody who doesn'tdeserve it a hundred percent and
I, and I really think thatbecause we're watching, uh, a

(01:11:40):
show with some of the feedbackthat we've gotten about, you
know some what, some of whatwe've said about Nate as a
character and or the executionof the arc, that there's a sort
of like but we love Nate and and, and I didn't think I'm
thinking of a situation in myown life where some there's a
group of us, three of us who youknow would talk, and one person

(01:12:02):
was having trouble at work, andthe more they told us about the
trouble at work, the clearer itbecame.
These motherfuckers got a pointman like, yeah, I think, I think
it's you, yeah, and it becamereally uncomfortable, you know.
I mean because at a certainpoint you know we can just sit
there and act like we agree withevery crazy thing he was saying

(01:12:25):
, like we were just like nah,man, I think they have a point,
or you got to do that, um, andso I guess that's where I feel
with Nate, like, even if,because I've worked in
situations where people werevery personal and in good and
bad ways and where they mighthave been a yelling match or
there might have been whateverbut to me what you talked about

(01:12:47):
is the dirty fighting of it.
Yeah, that is what I I mean itreally speaks to what else we
know he's done, and I also thinkit's just so profound the
stories we tell ourselves.
Yes, because he does not knowwhere that picture is.
He assumes it's in a garbage,can, I guess?

(01:13:09):
Or, who knows, buried in somebox.
That's what he thinks, and hehas continued his story from
there about what that means.
Yeah, so to him he is pissedabout a real thing, but he
doesn't know what the fuck he'stalking about pissed about a
real thing, but like he doesn'tknow what the fuck he's talking
about.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Well, it also it.
So if he had said to ted youare doing this thing and it's so
out of character that I need toaddress it, I feel like that is
the way that you know you callyour boys or your whoever you
call them on their shit, you'relike, hey, listen, you're.
You're fucking up, and youdon't usually fuck up like this,
so we need to talk about it.
But what he says is you don'thave the picture, you have the
stupid Americans.
You're not with your son, eventhough you should be.

(01:13:49):
And then also says you saidwe're going to play Nate's false
nine, so when we fuck up,you're going to blame me.
Not only has Ted never donethat.
Would that be wildly out ofcharacter for Ted that?
Yet.
He is getting mad at Ted aboutthings that haven't happened.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
That's what he would do.
He would set something up.
That's 100% what he would dowhen Trump says, of course
everybody steals as soon as theyget in the presidency.
He cannot fathom a world wheresomebody wouldn't set up a fall
guy in the eventuality.
That's just how Nate thinks.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
I guess my only point with all this is I I believe
that the writers were going forNate having a breakthrough with
Ted, an emotional breakthroughof some sort.
All I got from it was wantingto say to Nate like hey, dude,
you've got to like review theshit that you just said.

(01:14:45):
You are wildly out of pocket,like you're not.
What you're saying doesn't makeany sense, and so it's not that
I don't feel.
I understand that he is in pain.
I feel the pain that he isfeeling.
I get that part, but I'm alsolike we can't do fuck all about
that, because you're not reallymad at me yeah, and he's

(01:15:07):
incapable of recognizing that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
I think what I actually I'm glad we kind of hit
this a little bit more becauseI think I got to one of the
things that bothers me aboutthis scene and I mean you know
it actually was well executed.
When you're the Ted in thisconversation, you are expected

(01:15:31):
by everyone, including the Natein this conversation and
yourself, to be the big one,which means you just take the
shots Because Ted easily, tedknows the deal.
Ted easily could be like don'tworry about me and my son.
At least when I see my son Ihave a nice motherfucking word

(01:15:53):
to say to him.
I mean, he could, they could,he could have coach is
transitioning to coach mode.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
This is this is fascinating to watch.
This is like fascinating thatthat wouldn't even occur.
That's amazing.
That is amazing.
Right, he could.
Okay, your point is you gottabe a strong, silent type and
absorb, and then but, and he'sguess what?

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
yeah, he's.
He's fucking wounded too, andsometimes I think that gets lost
in these kinds of conversationsand analyses like he's got his
own pain.
Just because he's Ted and he'sa head coach doesn't mean that
he doesn't have his own pain.
What Nate just said was I mean,I think Boss Nail maybe
probably started me down thisroad.
What irks me about this, it'snot just the anger, it's the

(01:16:40):
willingness to fight dirty.
Willingness to fight dirty.
I think you have to have somerules in your fighting.
You may end up cutting this,but I'm going to connect it to
something.
You really may end up cuttingthis.
Yeah, it's bad.

(01:17:01):
October 7th I'm going there.
When it went down a Monsonetattack, there were people who
made points with degrees of tactthat an oppressed people are
going to do whatever they feelthey have to do to resist.

(01:17:24):
Okay, let's just take that onhis face.
My response to that, in a veryflat but raised me way, was yeah
, but there's still got to berules to that shit.
Like, there's still rules tothis shit.
Like you cannot, like you,don't you?
You don't kick in granny's door.

(01:17:44):
I don't give a fuck whathappened.
And I don't understand likethere always have to be rules
and when people aren't willingto have any rules, that's when
you get what we've got in theworld right now.
You have to have some rules.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Well, I agree with you on the having of some rules.
I think I would interpret it asnot that there are artificially
enforced rules, but that thereare natural consequences of
actions and people wildly underor overestimate the amount of
leverage that they have on otherpeople.

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
So there are plenty of times where somebody will say
about me I am a bitch, or loudor obnoxious or something else,
and 90% of the time I'm going tobe like well, that's fine, I
don't know you and I don't care.

Speaker 4 (01:18:37):
Sorry, I just said it .
I was going to say I forwardedthe emails, Coach.

Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
Sorry, I meant to tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:18:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
It's coach.
Sorry, I meant to tell you yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I'll
let you in Natural, yeah, sorry.
So like I don't and this ismaybe the way that I've talked
about relationships beingtransactional for me in a way
that I feel okay with, and thatif what you have is I think
you're fun and cool andinteresting and I want to be
your friend, I'm going to doshit to try to make you my
friend.
So that transaction is I dothings that I hope make you like
me, because you do things thatmake me like you, and so it's

(01:19:10):
not.
It's not a I'm going to buythis for you and you're going to
like me, except for my nieces.
I will bribe those bitchesevery fucking day.
That makes sense.

Speaker 4 (01:19:16):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
That's fair.
So it's.
It's a.
If you don't have anything tooffer me, then telling me that
you're not going to give me theshit that I don't care about
doesn't it creates no naturalconsequences, because I don't
care if you're in my life or not.
I understand that that soundsmean, but like there are 7
billion people in the world, Ihave to not care about most of

(01:19:38):
them.
So in this case, nate is tryingto say, like I am in so much
pain that you need to respond toit, so I'm going to hurt you
enough that, until you respondto what I'm being upset about.
But what he's upset about, tedcan't do shit about.
He is right, you can't.
You can't just make people careabout things partially yes,

(01:19:59):
you're absolutely right that.

Speaker 4 (01:19:59):
No, I love everything you said, but also ted, if ted.
So one of the byproducts ofbeing a parent, um, kids who are
classified you never know whatword you can use because it
changes so quickly, butneurodivergent is one of the
terms or atypical, or whatever.
All of my kids in one way oranother.

(01:20:21):
Four children.
They all have various wonderfulgenetic traits that I've passed
down and you're welcome kids.
And so one of the things thathappens with at least three out
of the four is something theycall mind reading.
So they say I don't know, Idon't have, my social skills are

(01:20:46):
challenged in this particularsituation, just any given
situation.
So I'm going to attribute whatI think you're thinking and then
I'm going to react accordingly.
And so I have to constantly belike stop my reading and just
ask the question.
And what you have here, whatyou have here, is a failure to
communicate.
You have this moment where, ifwe break it down quickly, we say

(01:21:09):
what are you talking about?
Oh, come on, man, you're mad ashell at me.
I just want to know why.
Okay, good, ted's finallyaddressing it.
Ted knows this isn't the timeTed would pick to address it,
but Nate is literally walkingaway.
He doesn't have a choice in thematter.
So he's okay, he's going to bethe bigger person.
What have I got to learn here?
I actually really like as a.

(01:21:30):
It's like okay, what am I?
What did I screw up?
Like I like him owning that hehas to do something.
What did I do to get us intothis situation?
You know what I mean?
Yes, okay.
So the response is has parts toit.

(01:21:51):
The first part is mind reading,as nate is saying this stuff uh
, ted is responding.
They show reaction shots of ofted and it's like he has no idea
what the hell nate's talkinglike this.
He did not.
He was not part of this, right?
Uh, you want to know what youdid?
Oh, yeah, I'll tell you whatyou did.
You may feel like the most partof the question, yes, we know
this.
Certain people a boss rightlypoints out that this is a boss,
this is a manager, it's aprofessional relationship, yes,

(01:22:11):
but there are certain managerswho transcend the teachers,
managers, people in a, in ainformation or organizational
role, who uh, information is notcorrect, uh, organizational
role, something fundamental toyour existence, and they
transcend by virtue of how theychoose to deal with people.
They transcend the normalbounds of whatever the job is.

(01:22:33):
Coach Bishop is like this whenhe coaches you, it doesn't feel
just like a coach.
It feels like dad, mentor,grandpa, like it's like a
million things where you got,like best friend.
You know all of the thingscoach puts.
He can't help it.
If I told him to stop it hey,don't do it He'd be like I don't

(01:22:53):
know what the fuck.
He couldn't do it if he wantedto.
It's just how it happens.
You may feel like I'm mostimportant person in the world
and then you abandoned me.
Ted did not abandon him.
So right away, ted is like whatis happening?
Right, you switched out oflight just like that and I
worked my ass off.
And now Ted is like wait, whendid this?
When did I abandon you?
When were you trying to get myattention back?
I worked my ass off to get myattention back, prove myself to

(01:23:15):
you, to make you like me again.
But the more I did, the lessyou cared.
It was like I was fuckinginvisible part.
That part is mind reading.
He has decided to react basedon what he thought.
Now there's a little more mindreading.
You haven't even got the photoI gave him Christmas.
He's attributing something tothat, exactly like you both said
, has nothing to do with thetruth.
Ted could refute it, but he'sjust absorbing and listening.

(01:23:38):
Now it gets nasty For Christmasup in your office.
Just a picture of dumbAmericans.
It's just a picture of dumbamericans.
It's just a picture of dumbamericans.
Okay, uh, thanks, buddy.
Um, that's where you go.
Oh, like, if you're listeningto this and absorbing, now, at
least for me, a little tiny wallof protection goes up.

(01:23:58):
I'm like okay, when you werewrong and I could have easily
refuted it.
Now I'm like, okay, whatever.
But now, listening to this, yougo, oh jesus christ, like, okay
, you're full of like somethingelse in a.
So now you're gonna play nate'sfalse nine.
When team fuck now this is adifferent part of the speech, of
the reaction he's he'sescalating.
Dumb americans is a personalattack.

(01:24:20):
Uh, he's now attributing whenyou play fault nate's false nine
, he mocks it like, he repeatsit in a way that is mockery.
Uh, when the team fucks up,which they will, hey, you can
blame it on me.
Well, no, fuck that.
So I'm gonna call.
I'm smarter than you, we allknow I'm smarter than you.
I'm gonna call it out.
I know what the fuck you'redoing.
Maybe everyone else thinksyou're uh, dudley, do right.

(01:24:41):
But I know you're a schemingprick, because I am.
I only know scheming pricks.
Therefore you must be one.
Now.
Everybody loves you.
The great Ted Lasso.
This is wildly personal, right?
Well, I think you're a fuckingjoke.
Without me, you wouldn't havewon a single match.
They would have shipped yourass back to Kansas, where you

(01:25:03):
belong, with your son, becauseyou sure as don't hell belong
here, but I do.
I belong here.
This just didn't fall into mylap.
I earned that.
Oh yeah, no, you did earn itbecause he came.
He was the one person.
The guy you're yelling at wasthe one person that believed in
you and gave you this job.
Um, and that's the only, that'sthe first time ted speaks up.

(01:25:25):
He to to reiterate thecorrectness of yes, you earned
this job so.

Speaker 3 (01:25:32):
So there's a ton there and actually I'm glad you
did that breakdown in terms ofthe flow of the speech for me.
First of all.
Yes, he is.
He is telling you what you callmind reading.
I've called storytelling, Ithink, but there's always like
what do you actually know?

(01:25:53):
Here's the part for me that Iwas like nate, this is just
about how you feel aboutyourself, the great ted las.
Like once you go there, likelisten, man, I just showed up
and it was me.
I didn't do anything orwhatever.
This is who I am everywhere.

(01:26:13):
Have you seen the Wichita StateShockers video?
Like I made SportsCenter dudeRight, like this is what the
fuck I do?
So like there was something veryI just I guess and I get that
he's hurt, but I guess my senseof Nate here was he would have
said literally anything to causeTed pain.

(01:26:34):
So I don't even think there isany sense to be made of this
speech in a real way, right,other than I am hurting and
until I see you wince, I won'tbe satisfied and and that's why
actually I I understand why, interms of how one is supposed to
have these conversations, whatam I supposed to learn here?

(01:26:56):
Felt right.
Yeah, speaking for myself, ifI'm pissed off enough.
I don't want to hear anysayings, any stock de-escalation
, shit platitudes, oh no one dayat a time coach.

(01:27:17):
It's not worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Orlando, listen I'll let you know if it's fucking
worth it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:21):
Apparently it is worth it I pissed.
Fuck's the matter with you.
So I think in a way, yes, Iunderstand why you say it's a
great way to start theconversation, but in a way it's
an extension of it's anextension of Roy saying no big

(01:27:44):
deal.
You kissed my girlfriend.
Yeah.
It's aw you all right, son.
Are we okay now Sport, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:54):
You know what I mean?
Yes, he would have appreciatedit.
You better get your shittogether, because that would
have been yeah, at least that'swhat he needed, so.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
I'm trying hard not to fanfic rewrite season two, to
be more closely a mirror ofseason one, or a foil, I should
say.
Season one everything wentgreat.
Season two here's howeverything could have gone,
could have broken bad, and Ihave all sorts of ideas about
how, uh, instead of getting intoa romantic relationship,

(01:28:23):
rebecca should have been forcedto trade Sam in order to save
the team, instead of tradingJamie in order to ruin the team,
like she did in season one.
That kind of shit.
There is a version of thisseason where Nate was saying the
great Ted Lasso as a foil forhis the great Roy Kent.

Speaker 4 (01:28:43):
I was just going to say that for his, the great roy
kent, I was just gonna say thatwhere they say you have to doff
your cap because that was theheight of of nate's like, that
was when he rose, that was whenhe had, yes, the great roy kent
yeah, every criticism wascorrect, everyone was valid,
everyone was inbounds.

Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Every one of them was this is what you were doing
wrong on the pitch and how youwere fucking this up.
Yeah, and this is great pointyou don't make me feel good the
way that you're supposed to.
So fuck you and fuck your son.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
It's like whoa whoa whoa, whoa, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
Yeah, you know what you nailed it.
That's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
I was going to say it and then I said, oh, I'm not
going to answer, I'll let bosstalk first.
Then she took all the accoladesI wrote.
Actually this is in the shownotes.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
You know what I earned it and you didn't, so why
?

Speaker 4 (01:29:30):
don't you go back to Kansas?
No, it's absolutely beautifuland you're right.
You're right, boss.
What a great point he was likethe thing about him in season
one at this moment was himseeing the truth about
everything so clearly?
And now it's the exact opposite.
He is just like this is allnonsense.

(01:29:51):
If you step back and you haveenough distance, like you know,
we're seeing this well after, uh, this episode aired and and
we're just, like you can, kindof tsk at it where you're like
come on, man, this is stupid,because I mean, you're not even
close to right.
Like not.

Speaker 3 (01:30:06):
And also, when someone gets to this place, I
mean it's like arguing with adrunk.
That's another reason why Ifeel there's nothing you could
have.
You know like he's done, but Ithink in seeing how done he is,
I find myself going you're noteven making sense.
Like, slow down for a second.

(01:30:27):
You think this man who has oneof the most enviable jobs on
planet earth is tanking that jobso that he can make you look
like an idiot?
Like sometimes you have to likewalk yourself through the
actual logic of what you'resaying and really ask like is

(01:30:48):
that what you actually believeis happening?

Speaker 4 (01:30:51):
right, yeah, hey man, I don't want to rain on your
parade here.
I know you're trying to get alot off your chest, but like is
this how when?
You played it over in your head.
Is this how you wanted it?

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
is this how?

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
this is this your theory of the case, because
that's fucking bonkers nate thisis one of the reasons why uh,
even though I know that they areused a bit much and not even a
bit much, but they're referenceda lot you making I statements
is has been so important for me,not just in that when I
communicate with people it comesoff better because I am not

(01:31:21):
blaming them for other things.
But when I say that I aminternalizing for myself, this
thing happened and I felt a wayabout it.
I take responsibility for myemotions.
That's right, nobody didanything to make me feel that
way.
But then I can come back and say, hey, so when you do this shit,
I don't feel great and I wouldlike, if you care about my
feelings, please don't do thisshit.

(01:31:43):
But instead he's like like no,you made me feel this way
because you're a bad father.
It's like, okay, well, youprobably should have been
spending some more time with drsharon then, because you, you
missed the boat on that fuckingshit oh, completely.

Speaker 3 (01:31:56):
I, yeah, I I know it's part of the story and and
we'll have more opportunity totalk about it in season three,
but I somehow this narrative ofted abandoned his kid I get how
I guess serves what I don'tagree.
Like it's not at all how Iwould describe the situation

(01:32:19):
that landed this man here.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
And once you've got a job like this, like it's not a
fucking internship, like youtook the job it's weird to me
that, and it's in a lot ofplaces I feel like you know
where the conversation has beenvery much like well, when he
abandoned his son, I'm like whendid he abandon his son?

(01:32:42):
I mean, I will fully saygirls5.com shout out that it
would have been viewed asabandonment had a woman done it,
because we unfairly If a womandid it, it would have been
abandoned Because we hold womento a higher standard of
parenting than men, do we?

Speaker 4 (01:33:00):
That's news to me.
Huh, that's an interestingtheory out of left field.
Interesting theory, can youimagine.
I mean, I've never seen anyevidence of that boss.

Speaker 3 (01:33:15):
Once online, I have to tell, because it made me
laugh, because it was sopreposterous that I just had to
laugh.
I was having an exchange withsomebody online and I brought up
the gi bill.
Um did not only apply to whitesoldiers, so, like, all that
generational wealth that wasbuilt up, like that just didn't
happen for black people.
And he goes well, if that'strue.

(01:33:37):
And as I read that, I thought,well, what do you mean?
If that's true, like, first ofall, you could check.
If that's true, first of all,you could check.
If it's true, that's somehighly Google-able shit.
But also, I'm a motherfuckingAFAM major man.
I just told you what the fuckhappened.
Like I'm not, there's somethingabout.

Speaker 4 (01:33:56):
Like, but is AFAM a real major though?

Speaker 3 (01:34:03):
Look, boss is like even for me this is too much,
too much, it's so, it's so crazyI cannot wait to say if that's
true to take, I save thearticulate.

Speaker 4 (01:34:16):
It's an articulate, uh I I save it whenever I can
work it in.
Oh, it's so painful.
Mean right away.
If that's true with coach, youdon't even have to go.
It does not matter what comesafter that comma, because you've
already lost.

Speaker 3 (01:34:33):
What did you say?
What, yeah, yeah, no, so anywaybut, I do think it is
fascinating.
I think the whole scene wasfascinating.
I think everybody agrees thatNate is in in pain.
I mean I don't.
I think ted would say thatright now.
I mean ted's not, you know, ifanybody's eq would pick that up,
it's his I just what I hear inthis conversation is is a yes

(01:35:02):
and of he is in pain, and thisis not okay and I do feel like
some of the pushback around natehas been like he is in pain,
end of analysis.
He is in pain and I'm like,well, it can't go that way.

Speaker 4 (01:35:17):
It just like it just the world wouldn't work if we
just if that's just it wait,explain that if, if, if, it's
enough to just be in pain, I'mnot.
I want to make sure, so I meanso yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
so like I'm not saying that everybody's pain is
the same or this or that, butjust so-and-so was in pain
cannot be a like carte blancheget out of jail free, whatever
you want to say, for whatevertheir behavior is.
This was wildly inappropriateon multiple levels, even in a
workplace where people do talkabout each other's personal

(01:35:51):
lives.
Whatever somebody said to meonce, do you know whether you're
just talking about someone orgossiping based on what you
expect to come out of theconversation?
And if the conversation is justsupposed to create titillation,
then it's gossip.
If the conversation is supposedto somehow help, then you're
having a conversation aboutsomeone, but it's not

(01:36:11):
necessarily gossip.
And I would say he's doing theinterpersonal version of that
here.
You are a fucking joke is not athing Ted can work on.
He's just like I'm just goingto hurl some shit at you best I
can.
He knows why Ted is there.
It's not like he just stared athis kid one day and was like,
oh, let me get the fuck out ofhere.
Why did you bring some shitlike that up?

(01:36:32):
Like nothing about this istruly fixable, including, I'll
tell you right now if Ted wentinto the locker room after this
and said you know, I got to talkto Nate the Great and he made a
great point.
I abandoned my son, so I'mgoing home, and everybody was
pissed Then Nate would be like.
And now you told them it's myfault.

Speaker 4 (01:36:53):
It's always some shit .
It's a lot of dirty pool.
It's a lot of dirty pool for me.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
The only last thing that I want to say is that idea
of because he was hurt, he hassort of carte blanche to do
whatever.
I think that for such a longtime, the way that conversations
were structured in US societyis the ideal was we're going to
be objective, we're not going tohave our feelings involved,

(01:37:19):
we're only going to take thefacts.
It's going to be straightobjectivity, and that actually
meant whatever straight whitecis men had decided was what the
feeling should be.
Those would be consideredobjective.
That's a good.

Speaker 4 (01:37:32):
Anglo-Saxon values Exactly so, like this is why
would you show?

Speaker 2 (01:37:35):
emotion.
If you have emotions that matchours, then those emotions are
objective, and that's fine, wedon't have emotions.
And so now we've gotten to thepoint where it's all there.
Actually, emotions areinformation.
Emotions tell you things aboutwhat's going on around you, so
I'm not going to ignore that forobjectivity, because that is

(01:37:55):
evidence that that's facts.
I'm going to include it.
My feelings tell me this.
My feelings are around.
I am telling you what I amfeeling so that you know these
things about me.
Nate is saying my reality is, Ifeel this way.
So that is what is true, and Iresponded to that.
And that isn't correct.
Like you don't need to pickbetween objectivity and feelings
that is a false dichotomy butyou do need to acknowledge that

(01:38:18):
your feelings are informationand not reality, and that is
what he is running into.

Speaker 3 (01:38:25):
I used to say this more often.
You just woke it up so clientscan thank you when they get sick
of it.
No, but I would say to peopleand started with me talking to
myself just because they're yourreal feelings doesn't mean what
you're feeling is real.

Speaker 2 (01:38:41):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:38:43):
Absolutely.
I think you got to keep that inmind.
You just got to keep that inmind.
But yeah, I mean Nate, yeah,you're, you're, you're a hundred
percent right, both of you,when you say like Nate's had a
whole, he's lived a whole story,he has like this is for months
now he's been coloring in oh andthis and other than the time.

(01:39:04):
And then you brought a hamsandwich, and you know I like
turkey.
I mean, he's way down the lineat this point.

Speaker 4 (01:39:12):
You know what.
You know what boss, you knowwhat coach.
You're full of shit.
Just fuck you both, I mean wow,I mean wow so.

Speaker 2 (01:39:23):
I'm going to go.

Speaker 3 (01:39:31):
I mean that's fine, it's just that I got other shit
to do.

Speaker 1 (01:39:33):
Oh yeah, oh no, right , I know he's like you didn't
hurt my feelings, you justopened up my evening.

Speaker 3 (01:39:37):
No, I'm gonna go to sleep no, but it's.
But I I do think the way.
Oh, I guess another piece I'dsay about it.
You know I was saying earlierthat Ted just absorbs it, but
like even that last piece, likehe might feel all kinds of ways,
there are two other coaches onthis staff and I motherfucking
guarantee you he would havefigured out what to say other

(01:39:59):
than you're full of shit.
Fuck you.
Because he would have beenafraid for his life.
He's saying this shit to Tedbecause he would have been
afraid for his life.
He's saying this shit to tedbecause he can.
He knows it, ted knows it,everybody knows it yeah no, and
it's fine and that's ted'schoice.
I mean, ted is being a brand ofstrong by okay, fine, I'll carry

(01:40:21):
it, but I mean he knows he canget away with this shit.
He still has a job.
Right now, like at this exactmoment, he has a job which we
all agree.

Speaker 2 (01:40:30):
He should not have, as of the morning that the
newspaper article came out.

Speaker 3 (01:40:35):
Well, clearly.

Speaker 4 (01:40:42):
But certainly this tirade like are we fucking
kidding right now?

Speaker 1 (01:40:45):
I'm more of a Ted Lasso in this and now.
Let's not Now hold on.

Speaker 4 (01:40:47):
Hold on this and now, now, now, now now, hold on,
hold on, hold on now, hold onfolks, hold on, Boss, I really I
love your boundaries, I lovethem, I love them, they're so,
they're so attractive.
And no, no, and we've talked,we can't we cannot go litigate

(01:41:07):
this.

Speaker 2 (01:41:07):
I will only say that what I feel like I'm doing is
telling Ted that he has aresponsibility to hold his boys
accountable, and I think that isthe piece that he is missing.
We say you have to do this shit.
This is a point where he shouldhave been holding Nate
accountable and he missed that.
He doesn't deserve this shitbecause his son has nothing to
do with this, but he should becalled on not holding Nate

(01:41:27):
accountable when he should havebeen.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
Yeah, just a bunch of dumb Americans.

Speaker 3 (01:41:36):
Even that.
Even that is kind of amazing inthat, If you remember, it's
Buster Douglas, it's the miracleon ice team, it's the Miracle
on Ice team, it's Jim Valvano,like I remember watching those
go up in the first episode.
You know for a fact that Natehas heard each of those stories.

(01:42:01):
That's not just America isgreat up on the wall and he
knows it Right.
So he's gonna attack like he'slike I hate you and I hate
everything you represent, likehe is, because they're not.
It's not just like a random youknow, whatever, I don't know
who it would be that you know,just sort of like oh, isn't

(01:42:22):
america, it is specific underdogstories, people who believed,
who defied the odds.
And he's coming into thishopeless situation Like that.
Shit's up on the wall for areason there's no way Nate
hasn't heard about each one.

Speaker 4 (01:42:37):
Fuck you, Ted and fuck Jesse.

Speaker 3 (01:42:40):
Exactly, exactly.
I'm like are you okay Nate LikeJesus.

Speaker 4 (01:42:46):
Christ Boss pointed out rightly that he's an animal
at bay, you know, and that'swhen they're super dangerous.
But he backed himself into thefucking corner.
If he had addressed this at anypoint, if he had gotten therapy
, if he had talked to his oldman, if he had done any one of
60 different choices on anygiven day, this would not have
happened.
And it's not Ted's fault, it'snot your fault.

(01:43:08):
It's not your fault.
It's not your fault.

Speaker 3 (01:43:11):
Can't get enough of that one.
I'm going to go watch thatscene.

Speaker 4 (01:43:16):
Well, you know what?
I'm sufficiently drained fromwatching this fall from Grace.
Let's leave it there today.
Coach, where do people find youif they want to find you?

Speaker 3 (01:43:30):
I'm doing another shout out for Unstuck as Fuck
streaming.
Check it out.
It's in the show notes and,yeah, we're going to be doing
some work around that.

Speaker 4 (01:43:41):
Boss, what about you?

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
You can find me at Blue Sky, which is Demily
Chambers, or at Threads, whichis Emily chambers, or at threads
, which is Emily dot chambers,dot 31.
Also, hopefully dipping backinto the community site, which I
have not been around very muchlately.
I haven't been on any unlessyou're a spreadsheet.
I have not been on you on thecomputer.
That was a weird way of sayingit, but I will be back so if

(01:44:04):
you're interested hit up.
Hit up the community site.

Speaker 4 (01:44:07):
I will be there.
I've been a big fan ofemilychambers.30 actually.

Speaker 2 (01:44:12):
Yeah, she's all right .
Superior superior takes she's,she's, she's okay.

Speaker 4 (01:44:20):
She's just one ahead of you, boss.
So you know what are you goingto do.

Speaker 2 (01:44:25):
I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:44:26):
Depends.
It depends.
Yeah, no, it depends.
Thank you everybody.
Thank you for listening.
We really appreciate everybodybeing here with us.
I want to do a little shout outto Buttercup Brian, who shared
some incredible stuff on thecommunity site.
You know Coach references hisunstuck AF piece that Coach did

(01:44:46):
and it's amazing.
You get this in thenomenclature in your brain and
then you have these beats whereyou know it affects people and
it's amazing.
Brian shared a great story andwe just think the world of him
and we're all behind him andthink it's just awesome what

(01:45:07):
he's doing.
It's, it's, it's.
It's just, you know work, justsome dumb Americans trying to
try to put some goodness intothe world.
And when little moments likethat happen.
It just makes it.
It's so worth it I can't.
It makes it.
It's so far past worth it, it'sso awesome that's it.

(01:45:29):
So thank you everyone, thank youto all the buttercups, thank
you to all the listeners.
We know there are so many ofyou lurking out there.
It's I totally get it.
Sometimes, just like you know,we're part of your day and we
and we technically don't knowyou exist, um, and so, uh, but
you matter to us and I thank youfor letting us matter to you.
We will be back next time.

(01:45:50):
Our next episode is actuallythis is going to be super fun.
We have Eurovision coming upthe first week of May, and so I
have asked Coach and Boss tobear with me as I walk through a
very special episode on uh oneurovision.
Um, it's something they are notfamiliar with at all, but I

(01:46:12):
really love and I think it suitsour audience.
I think we're worldly uh in acertain way, and I think, uh,
people love, you know, learningabout new things.
It should be a little bit of acarnival atmosphere, uh, and the
format will be slightlydifferent than we normally do,
because you'll have to kind offollow along uh not that you
don't, but there's a sort of avideo component that'll.

(01:46:34):
That'll be a little moreinformational, um, but that'll
be our next, uh, our nextepisode.
Uh, just to just to give you abreak from take, take a deep
breath from from, uh, fromnate's um, uh, just, you know
outburst and uh, boss, are yougonna say something?

Speaker 2 (01:46:53):
oh, I was just gonna say um uh, self-brought-on
implosion yeah no, no right yeah, like like all, all on his own.

Speaker 4 (01:47:02):
Um, uh, okay, and that's it for us.
Uh, we will see you next time.
Please support your locallibraries and the written word,
and until next time we are.

Speaker 3 (01:47:13):
Richmond Till we Die.
Brian, I'm shouting you out,man, congratulations.

Speaker 4 (01:47:21):
Richmond Till we, Brian.
I'm just letting you know.
I'm just letting you know.

Speaker 3 (01:47:25):
Brian, I'm cutting out my fun moment just for you.
That's important.

Speaker 4 (01:47:31):
Even the KOB and the QOB never got that kind of shout
out.
Damn Love it.
Thank you everybody.
We'll see you next time.

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Ted Lasso | S2 Ep12 Part5 "Inverting the Pyramid of Success"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ted Lasso | S2 Ep12 Part5 "Inverting the Pyramid of Success"