Wayne | S1 Ep9 Part1 "Thought We Was Friends" - The Tedcast - A Deep Dive Podcast About The Bear

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast.
Welcome all Greyhound fans,welcome all you sinners from the
dog track and all the AFCRichmond fans around the world.
It's the Lasso way around theseparts with Coach, coach and
Boss, without further ado, coachCastleton.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Okay, welcome back, beautiful people, and happy
Eurovision Week 2024.
If you're hearing this, we'reposting on Tuesday and this
would be the first day ofEurovision.
So if you're hearing this, youmight want to just pause
wherever you are and justdouble-check that it's not on
right now.

(01:00):
Right now, I know in my areaout in the east coast of the
United States, we have a 2o'clock time frame to watch it
over from Europe, and thisyear's presentation is coming
from I think it's Valmo, which Ididn't know.
I don't know much about that,but Swedish city, and the first

(01:24):
two dates are semifinals onTuesday and Thursday, and, of
course, the grand final is onSaturday, and so I only put that
on your radar, just in case.
It's one of those things whereyou say, hey, I'd like to check
that out, and you may havemissed it, or you may be missing
it right now by listening to us, in which case pot will always
be here.
It's not going anywhere.
These things are evergreen,they live in perpetuity, and so,

(01:50):
yeah, I urge you to.
If you want a little wackinessand some fun and see some of the
music from other cultures, Istrongly suggest it.
Today we are discussing Wayne.
Now we came in last time sayingwe're going to discuss Wayne
and guess what?
We didn't really discuss Wayne.

(02:11):
Instead, we took a littleholiday and we talked a little
bit about the man versus bearstuff and some of the things
going on in the world.
And every once in a while it'sgood to take stock of where you
are.
For example, before I jumped on, I saw a post in the community
site where someone says I love apun and I thought this is a

(02:34):
hostile workplace environment.
That's what I thought.
I thought just no one shouldhave to be subjected to puns
during their day.
I am your host, coach Castleton.
With me, as always, is CoachBishop.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
I think the only way to deal with puns in the
workplace is with capitalpunishment.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, that doesn't help.
Does not help at all.
Thank you, coach.
With us is our boss EmilyChambers.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
That sucks help at all.
Thank you, coach.
Uh, with us is our boss, emilychambers.
That sucks.
We're just going to be so meanto you because, um, a week or so
ago, a while bit, I texted bothof you and I said castleton,
before we start our nextdiscussion of a wayne episode,
yeah, I need you to explain tome why it is that you give love
to Maureen, yeah, and not toCalvin or Reggie.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, and what did I?

Speaker 4 (03:29):
say you didn't respond.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Oh good, I'm good at that.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was fine.
I just wanted to put it on yourradar so that you would be
prepared when I came to you withthat question.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
Because this is going to be a fundamental, not
disagreement, but this is thedifference between, I think, how
you see things and how I seethings, and I started to talk
about this at the beginning ofthe last podcast and then we
went off to a different journey,so you don't need to address
that right now, but that will bea key element for this episode,

(04:02):
where we do discuss that,because I need to understand
your thinking on that.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Thank you, boss.
No, no, I really I know Iappreciate that because, um,
there's a not, there's a lessthan zero chance that, like we
got off the topic of wayne andjust went to any other possible
topic just as a delay tactic soI wouldn't have to face the
music so I I don't want to sayface the music, I think I I will
give you chance later to talk.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
you don't have to face the music.
So I don't want to say face themusic, I think I will give you
a chance later to talk.
You don't need to answer rightnow.
I just want to double checkbefore we head into this
conversation.
Do you give love to Calvin andReggie?

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Do I give love to Calvin and Reggie, yes, yes you
do, I do, I do Okay.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
In the same way that you give love to Maureen.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Listen, to be totally honest with you, you hadn't
seen what was coming.
So I was playing a littletongue in cheek with Maureen.
I was just kind of leave.
I wasn't saying I think if weget the court stenographer in
here you'll see that I wastrying to be a little.
I was just saying, hey, whatyou know, this is one way to
look at it and you know, we cancertainly, whatever I am not, I

(05:10):
give love to everyone, as youknow.
Sometimes they don't want it andand they return it for for an
additional fee, but I, I try tolove my fellow man and I try to
live by tenets of years andyears of Sunday school which I

(05:33):
have absorbed, for better or forworse.
And so, yes, that is part ofwhat we'll talk about today.
But when it comes to Calvin andReggie, yeah, I have so much to
say about that and I will admitthat I am jaded, or my opinions

(05:54):
on them are shaded, by the factFrancesco Antonio, who plays
Reggie, and Kirk Ward, who playsCalvin, and Michaela Watkins,
who plays Maureen, are so good,like note perfect, at their jobs
that I that I probably go toofar to enjoying them and like

(06:14):
saying, like seeing them as morereal people or that sort of
thing, like I really, reallylove it.
I think they're like phenomenal.
So, um, there is an element, uh, there also.
But yeah, if we're talkingabout the real life, maureen
McNulty, you know we'll have toexplore that people can coexist,
looking at things from fromdifferent points of view.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
And you know we have so many of our listeners have
been with us for so long, for solong Wait hold on timeout
because I'm worried that youwere going to maybe take us down

(06:56):
a listener thing and before wemove too far away from the, we
can have different viewpoints.
I agree with you.
I just I need.
I need to jump in and say Iagree with you.
I need to jump in and say Iagree with you.
We can have differentviewpoints.
However, there is an element towhen people say I love everyone
.
I give everyone love, everybodygets one love, Right Coach.

(07:18):
Yeah, I'm going to be nice toeveryone.
It scares the shit out of me.
It doesn't make me feelcomforted or safe or like that
as a nice person.
I feel like that person doesn'tknow where the danger is.
I've mentioned this before.
You don't know where the dangeris and you might expose me to
it.
Yeah, so this I want to put onyour radar.

(07:40):
I under I.
I think you correctly think ofyourself as a good, nice person
who is kind and wants to be niceto people, but that viewpoint
doesn't hit the way it does foreverybody, including me, because
I think keep Maureen McNulty,the fuck away from me.
That bitch is dangerous, no, no.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Listen, I really do get that go ahead coach well, no
, I was gonna say, and I thinkthere's even.
I think there's an even richerconversation to be had once we
get into context, but I thinkI've shared that.
I've worked out my uhdefinition of so I keep going

(08:23):
back to, like that strikes me asa solid definition for me
functioning in the world.
And if I'm invested in theoptimization of outcomes for
maureen mcnulty, that does notrequire her coming anywhere the
fuck near me, and I can figurethat out as best I can from here
.
And it may just be me not doingshit to participate in the

(08:45):
punishment for the shit you did.
That I find, whatever it is,but I don't have to expose
myself to Reggie and his crazyto prove that I have love for
humanity.
So I do think there's like some, what we mean by that I think
can help to at least bridge someof the gap that you're both
pointing to.
Yeah, and I think can help toat least bridge some of the gap

(09:05):
that you're both pointing to.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:08):
And I think, on that note, castleton, I think that
there is an element and correctme if I'm wrong I think there is
an element that you think thesepeople need help.
I'm going to think of them asgood people and give them help,
or I see the goodness in themand I'm going to respond to that
and give them as much help as Ican and, specifically because

(09:30):
of working in nonprofit, I don'tneed to think shit about the
people I'm helping.
That, literally, we try not toask questions outside of like
demographic information.
We're not like oh, how did youend up here needing a place to
stay or food to eat?
We're like you need help.
We will help.
You might be a horrible person.
Your daughter might refuse tospeak to you.
I will help you out with this.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, okay, what did I miss?
So, yes, that is my incitingcall to arms, to say like, yes,
inciting action.
I say yes, these peopleprobably need help.
I will give them the benefit ofthe doubt generally to start,

(10:14):
not always, but generally.
I try to be that person.
I'm not always that person, Idon't think anyone's always that
person.
I don't think anyone's alwaysthat person, but in general, I
try to start by giving peopleenough rope to hang themselves
with.
You know, so to speak, meaning,you know, I don't think that,

(10:39):
for example, is Calvinredeemable?
Is he a member of society thatwho could like actually turn it
around?
My assumption is he is runninga some sort of you know drug
operation or something yeah.
Something like that out of histhing.
Is he a salvageable?
I don't even know what thatmeans in terms of society.

(11:01):
Could he be a member of societywho is productive?
And I probably don't have thesame definition of what a good
member of society is.
So right there, you know that'sprobably a lot of gray area.
You know, I don't like a goodtax paying.
God fearing individual is notmy definition.
So right away, you know, Ithink there's, you know, sort of

(11:22):
a role for most people.
But yeah, no, it's tough.
I would like to think thatsomewhere along the line he
probably was salvageable.
But as we get into it we mightsee where those glimmers come
from.
Like, I think Reggie's probablymore salvageable than Calvin.
But you know, we can definitelytalk about it as we go.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yeah, because what's really interesting to me is I
think any person is redeemable,anybody, regardless of how
horrible of a person.
You are Right, you can make upfor that and do good moving
forward.
I think you and I have differentdefinitions and I know that you
said that you were doing a lotof the tongue in cheek morning
stuff tongue in cheek and stufftongue, yeah, yeah yeah, I, I, I

(12:06):
think, though, that you haveespecially I know that in um one
of the last episodes we weretalking about the insult incel
community and you were seeinglike they need help and they, I,
I think a percentage apercentage of a percentage, not
not all of them.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
No, no god.
But if you're gonna hurt women,women or you think you're
entitled to whatever, it'sdisgusting.
Well, I mean, that's it'srepellent, but the certain
clueless lost 20% or whatevermight be able to be reached.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
Yes, so I think that there is an element where you
know you said a little bit agothat the actors are so good at
performing these roles that yousort of like the characters a
little bit more and that you'reliking them sort of makes you
think better of them.
Then what I think is same as Isaid in the last conversation, I
can love you and know thatyou're a horrible person and I

(12:54):
think you.
It gets a little more confused.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Well here, well confused for you probably, but
but here's the uh, here's thething I, I, I have learned over
uh many years of working withyou Um, uh, you have taught me
to have certain boundaries, so Idon't, uh, I don't aspire to
have your take on things.
If that makes sense, I think.
I think it takes all kinds and Ithink that you look at

(13:20):
something and you say you knowthat's like I don't think
everyone's redeemable.
There are certain people whereI go no, you're done.
Like you've done this, thatmeans you're done and I probably
have a too hard of a line inthat in that way.
But yeah, no, I, I appreciatewhere you come from and I
appreciate that you know you seethe world in a certain way and

(13:41):
I think it's.
It has helped me in so manydifferent ways to sort of put
things in perspective orunderstand other people, but I
would never aspire to it.
It doesn't seem like a way Iwould want to go about things,
so I guess so I'm going to tossthis in and then I want to be a
cause.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Now I feel like maybe I'm a little less clear coach,
so I want to make sure.
Clear coach, so I want to makesure.
So I'll.
I'll use an example, um, that Inoticed in my own life so not
proud of it, um, but I realizedthat I did have this is some
years back, but I did.
I did have, um, a certain biasin terms of people who are fat,

(14:24):
and I started I did some jokesabout it at one point, because I
was just sort of like workingthrough, like what the fuck is
that about?
Right, and I noticed and I meanthis in a specific way that I
didn't have any fat friends.
Here's why Because anybody whowas overweight in my circle was
a fat.
They were so-and-so andso-and-so and so-and-so and

(14:48):
so-and-so.
The only motherfuckers who goton my nerves and made me want to
cuss them out were fatmotherfucking blah, blah, blah,
tubby blah blahs Everybody in mycircle.
Well, I mean, we're gettingolder, we're getting older, and
so I think some of what Boss ispointing to is that element of

(15:12):
the conversation that when it'ssomebody I love or care about or
somehow, for one reason oranother, have a sympathy toward,
now all of a sudden you got tounderstand and people have
problems and they grow updifferently.
I'm sure there's a bunch oflost boys who needed a hug from
their dad.

(15:32):
I don't give a fuck.
I'd beat the shit out of themand their dad.
If I could do it withoutgetting in trouble, I don't give
a fuck.
But now if you tell me somebody,I give a fuck.
Oh, you had trouble with yourfather.
Oh, my, my goodness.
Well, here's a number for atherapist.
Oh my God.
And anytime you need to talk, Itotally understand.
So I just I think cleaner thanwe actually do and I felt so I

(16:11):
say all that to say I felt someof that in your comment about
liking the actors.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
No, no, what you're getting is once they're
humanized.
So when you get their humanity,when you see the actors doing
such a good job at showing themas people that they're not these
caricatures anymore, they'renot just like oh meth dealer one
, you know what I mean.
You're like oh man, I seeeverything about this person.
So that might be shading myanalysis of them.
I've said, if you remember,it's such a weird thing and I

(16:39):
should probably do some deepthinking about where the lines
are.
But do you remember the thing Isaw of the guy?
It like on tiktok or somewhere,some social media, where the
dude went to whole foods and wasdrinking out of the ladle, out
of the soup yeah, we talkedabout that.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
You and I talked about that.
I don't think you talked aboutit on here that is terrifying
for me.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Oh my god, because that puts me in prison.
When I see that, the rage I getat that guy doing it, and this
happened to me the other day.
So I want to set the sceneproperly.
There's a left-hand turn on theway to taking my daughter to
school, where it's basically youget a left arrow.
You know what I mean.
So cars go and they turn andthen generally two cars are sort

(17:22):
of left in the middle of theintersection and by the time it
turns red, those two cars aresort of left in the middle of
the intersection and, um, by thetime turns red, those two cars
go right.
I something happened that I'venever seen before in my life,
which was it's two days ago.
I have a like a ford f-150because of course it's a ford
f-150 behind me, um, and we waitand we wait and then the, the

(17:44):
last, uh, cars come, it turns,it turns left.
Do you know what's going tohappen, coach?
We go to take the turn and theguy turns through the opposite
lane, like in the intersection,and goes in front of me and cuts
me off.
I've never seen it.
All my life I've been driving,I've never seen that.
So I, I lean on my horn, I'mjust holding my horn and my
daughter's in the backseat.
She's like Dad, don't get mad,or whatever.

(18:06):
And I was like she doesn't likewhatever.
And so I was like, all right, Ihave a little girl in the car
or whatever.
But if I didn't have a littlegirl in the car, I'm telling you
someone that gets away withthat and there's no penalty for
it.
This is why I talk about socialcontrol, control in hockey.
It's because the gray areas arealways penalized.
You know, yes, you have yourrules, you have.

(18:27):
Oh, the ref saw it.
But if the ref didn't see it,there's still a mechanism for
that guy to pay the right price.
And so this guy, I'm like who?
And there was somebody in thecar with him.
It was like I was looking andit's just like two, they didn't
give me the finger, they didn'tdo it, they just did it like
matter of fact, like nope, thisis what I'm going to do, I'm
just going to decide.
And they just kept.
I was like what is happeningright now?

(18:48):
I've literally have you guysever had that happen to you in a
?

Speaker 3 (18:53):
I don't know that specific move, but certainly
comparable moves, that you justgo holy shit man Like wow yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
But I hear you.
I guess my question is and sothat type of thing.
I am making a judgment call onthat Coach where I say, like if
you're able to do that, like Ican't even fathom, like what you
would do.
I just I'm like you do not thenormal rules, don't?
You don't think they apply toyou.
So someone has to show you thatthey apply to you.
And in a different version ofmyself I would show them in
probably a way that would get meinto trouble.
So I'm saying it's not like, asI'm in the intersection, I go,

(19:35):
the guy behind me is fine, noproblem with the guy behind me.
As soon as they do that, I go,you have identified yourself and
I don't need to know anythingelse.
I don't care, the guy could bea local reverend, I don't need
to know anything else, I don'tcare, the guy could be a local
reverend, I don't, I don't care,you cannot do that.
We all have to have.
We live in a civilized society.
There are rules we've allagreed on and, yes, are some of

(19:56):
the rules of the road stupid?
Yeah, some of the some of therules are designed for the
lowest common denominator andand they're ridiculous, like you
know 15 mile an hour, speedlimits and things.
I'm like what the hell is it?
You know every, you knowwhatever, but in certain, in
certain places, like just youcannot drive across the
intersection to cut someone offfor no reason you know, risking

(20:17):
an accident and going the otherway.
I'm just like, no, you like atleast I need to understand it.
I would have pulled up and belike explain what you just did,
make me understand, because youcannot do that.
So anyway, that's.
I don't.
I know boss sometimes thinks Igo into the world and just like
a babe in the woods, like oh,everybody's my friend, I'll
never, whatever.
It's not like that.

(20:37):
It's just that I give them thebenefit of the doubt to begin
with and then you know, justshow me who you are and
everybody always does.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
What did that guy show you?
Why did you tell?

Speaker 2 (20:48):
us that story Because I gave before I knew.
I gave him the benefit of thedoubt.
Once he showed me who he was,I'm like, okay, you have.
No, you have put yourself aboveeverybody else.
It's not just me.
It's like we have a society.
You're putting yourself abovethe rules of society and now I
know what you're about.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Sorry, but the question that you were answering
was that Bishop coach asked youabout how it, once somebody is
humanized for you, you have moresympathy for them, and I think
what you told us was an exampleof where you gave somebody
sympathy to begin with, you gavesomebody the benefit of the
doubt and then you took it away.
Somebody sympathy to begin with, you gave somebody the benefit
of the doubt and then you tookit away.
But we're talking about theopposite, in that if you like

(21:27):
somebody, it sometimes seemslike you are less judgmental to
them and their actions.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Those are your words.
Those are your words.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
Those are not my words.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
I never said if I like somebody, I am less
judgmental.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
No, no no, no, no.
But what coach and I both saidis that we noticed in the
conversation that it felt likethat is what you were doing, and
so we were asking you aboutthat.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, that's when I said the humanity thing.
Listen, you and coach, teamingup against me is nothing.
That doesn't bother me a bit.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
So one thing I should mention is that earlier in the
conversation you said that yourespect the boundaries and the
things that I brought in myviewpoint, and everything.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
And thank you very much.
I love that.
I also you mentioned that youwouldn't want to see things the
way that I do.
I'm not arguing that you shoulddo that.
I am, Jen, like very seriouslytrying to get an idea of what
your ethical framework lookslike.
Yeah, so that I know where youredges are at and what your
rules are and how you Absolutelyso, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I'm saying I need to do some deep diving.
And why does the guy at WholeFoods I talked to I talked to
yeah, I guess we didn't do it onthe show, but I talked to coach
about this.
I'm like, why is that?
Like the thing for me, likethat the root and coach is like
oh, you care, care about social,but you care about boundaries,
about these certain but like thecertain boundaries.
Like I guess it's when peopletake care of advantage of other

(22:50):
people, or the, or the agreedupon rule set that I get
frustrated or something well.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
Well, there there's a couple things, and I actually
do think I'm not saying thisbecause we just had a very
special episode, but I actuallydo think there's some stuff in
the episode that's going to takeus to some of these things in
an interesting way.
But I'll toss in that I have astory similar to Coach's, and it
wasn't a video.
I was there, I was in college,and you had all kinds of setups

(23:20):
or whatever.
You could pick up your mainlunch, but outside of there,
there, like a salad bar and somesoup, um, in a you know big pot
, whatever, and you'd go and getyour soup.
So this guy, who was?
You just saw him around campus.
He was, he was.
He was an odd bird, um, to besure.
And you know, whatever, I'mgood, fuck, he's over there, I'm
over here, and it'd be odd ifyou.

(23:42):
What the fuck you want to do?
What you cannot do, is walk upto that big-ass pot of soup that
we all gonna eat from and startto put that ladle to your mouth
, because what'll happen then?
is some crazy motherfucker fromBrooklyn will yell across Yale's
Commons, hey, and everyone willfreeze in all of Commons.
And he will then yell Don't youput that in your motherfucking

(24:06):
mouth?
and so and he would be right too, and he would be, that's
exactly what happened and he putit down because, as I said to
my friends after he put it down,he could walk around here
acting crazy if he was he ain'tthat goddamn crazy.
And I was like, if he put thatin his mouth, he about to catch

(24:27):
one for me, because that isfucking outrageous.
But but I, I tell the story why?
Because it makes you laugh.
But also I tell the story inthis case because I think
they're different way.
Like my reaction was I don'treally give a fuck if you're a
good person, are you're a badperson or there's something
wrong with you or you don'tunderstand.
I don't give a fuck.

(24:47):
Here's what I do.
Give a fuck about You're notputting that ladle in your mouth
.
That's nasty and I'm not herefor that.
I think, coach, in the way and Imean that for that specific
story I get the sense, coach,like when that guy cut you off
in the intersection, that youthought one we can't have, that

(25:10):
we cannot have, that You'regoing to kill somebody or you're
going to certainly ruin somecars, like we can't have it.
Okay, that's one level.
I think another level is youdecided and because you did,
this thing we can't have, I nowknow that you are a certain kind
of person and my interactionswith you from here will reflect

(25:32):
that, and I think it doesn'tnecessarily conflict with I give
him love, but I think it couldconflict with it, or I think
certainly it requires someresolution and and working to
make sure that we've got allthat.
Working together does that makesense.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
I love what you said.
I love the breakdown, actuallythe weird part about it.
When he did that I wasn'tworried about him cutting me off
at all.
It didn't like that.
The personal interaction likeuh, of him, me, whatever it was,
just like it was so flagrant hecut across.
You know the people that wouldbe cut yeah like he cut across
people that luckily there wasnobody in line over there,

(26:10):
that's why he was able to do it.
But he cut across like lanes oftraffic and then just and
casually did it like the factthere was no, he didn't wave and
say sorry, he didn't go.
Fuck you, haha, there wasnothing like that.
It was this casual.
I I'll just, I'll break thiscardinal rule that in half
century of driving I've neverseen anybody break.
I just go, wait, wait a second,like.

(26:31):
So you want to talk aboutdanger?
I go oh, yes, I have.
I gave him love before that.
I give everybody on the roadlove until they show me they're
a terrible driver.
Then I see the danger and I goall right, now I have to treat
you in a different way.

(26:52):
Now I understand that you aredangerous to me.
So maybe it's not all thatdifferent between the way boss
and I view these things.
Maybe it's just you knowsemantics, we, I don't know,
because I, because boss, you're,you're, you're saying, hey,
listen, you know, actually Idon't want to put words in your
mouth.
I just, I just think at some,at some point, we both get to a
place where we've made somevalue assessment and then

(27:12):
reacted accordingly, so so.
So when you give somebody love,whatever part of it is like oh,
that's a that, maybe it's justlike an extra attempt, you know,
maybe that's all it is.
It's like all right, my gutsays I'm going to lose this
money, but I'm going to give himthis whatever and I'll give it
to him.
And you might say I know wellenough to not give that person
money.
I don't know what the range is.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
So the only thing I want to say and then I do think
we should get into the episodeis that I, honest to God, I just
want to know what your rulesare, and that's because it's a
me thing.
I do so poorly with ambiguity.
It makes me fucking crazy.
I want to know what I'msupposed to do and how I'm
supposed to do it and how.
I proved to you that I got itdone and that makes me

(28:00):
comfortable and feel good.
So, literally like I want tofigure that out with you.
The only other thing is that Iwant to discuss, as we move
through this episode, the waysin which I feel like not just

(28:20):
you people in general this is,this is a societal thing that
bothers me.
In general, people say I, Iknow him, he is a good guy, this
thing that he did is not as badas it seems to other people and
I'm like it kind of seems likewhat he did was bad.
It kind of seems like the actitself, outside of who he is, is

(28:40):
bad, and so I'm going to judgethe act and say that act was
shitty.
And if you want to talk abouthow, like, oh well, he had a
really terrible week and that'swhy he cut that guy off and
ordinarily he's not like thatand we don't need to worry about
him doing it in the futurebecause we took away his
driver's license or whatever thefuck he did, like, when you say
this is how I can prevent theact, I understand that.
When you say the act shouldn'thappen because it hasn't
happened in the past, I get that.

(29:00):
But when you say the actshouldn't happen because it
hasn't happened in the past, Iget that.
But when you say, oh well, he'sa really nice guy, so when he
punched that dude in the face hewas doing it out of love, I'm
like, well, no, no, that that'snot going to fly.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's yeah, no, these are.
These are really.
I love this boss.
These are really good.
These are really complicatedissues and first of all, I'll
tell you that I reallyappreciate how well you um, how,
how you weigh actions.
I really like that because it'slike a very definitive
methodology of being like Idon't give a shit what you say.
Show me what you did and thenI'll know.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
I really like that because, I can't handle
ambiguity, well, that's yeah butbut it makes perfect sense.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, I think there's a clarity.
Yeah, I will say as someone whodoes not, uh uh, suffer from
adhd you asking me what my rulesare is fascinating, because I
don't know.
And I would say that and coach,you can jump in this anytime
there's a tremendous amount ofshame associated with ADHD,
because we will get questionslike that and we don't always
know.
And I have the sense that myrules have shifted like

(30:03):
drastically over the course ofmy life, based on who I am and
what I want and what Iunderstand about the world and
who I want to be and that sortof thing, and like the things
I've learned about myself andthe things I've learned about
society.
So I think my rules haveshifted and that may or may not
be a good thing, but it's.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
I think it's a great thing.
I think that is how people grow.
That is a sign of maturity.
Your rules should change.
You should not have the samerules when you're seven as you
do when you're 47, then youfucked up.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Right, but it's hard for me to like, even when we
talk about the um, themitigating circumstances is
interesting and the way, waylike, uh, you know I've told you
that, uh, me and there's one,one of a friend of mine, are
like I'm not saying virtuallyunprovocable, but it's, it's
pretty, it's pretty tough and um, so I think it's cause I can

(30:58):
always tell myself a story aboutmitigating circumstances and I
always can like try to look fromthe other person's point of
view and give them that extrabenefit of the doubt.
And I'm not sure that's a greatthing, honest to God, like I'm
really not sure in the course ofmy life that me going the extra
mile and extending myself, Ithink it has given me among my

(31:18):
peer group and among my friendsand among my coworkers.
It's given me a reputation as avery level-headed sort of
leader or calm.
You know I don't jump, I don'tsort of fly into things, but
again I would say I'm tellingyou that the best person I know
is Coach Bishop.
Coach Bishop is the best man Iknow.

(31:40):
Okay, he is a fucking like, heis a stuffy, he's a stuffed
animal.
Is he is a fucking like he is astuffy, he's a stuffed animal
Like he is so sweet.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
I did just spit up water.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
He is so sweet.
Okay, I promise you he is sosweet, he he is.
I just want to carry him around.
I love him so much.
Whenever I'm with him, I'mhappy.
Whenever I talk to him I'mhappy.
Whenever I associate with him,i'm'm happy.
But I have seen coach bishop.
I've seen him be something else.
That is every bit, if not more,coach bishop than the stuffy

(32:15):
that I'm talking about, and thatis terrible.
He is terrifying, he isdangerous, he is, um, I going to
say unreasonable, but he getsto a point I can be unreasonable
when I go.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
Once I get there, once I'm like all right, I'm out
of fucks.
Yeah, I definitely can beunreasonable.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
There's very few of us that can get through to him
with the right words at theright time when he's there, to
bring him back to anywhere nearwhat what his, his baseline is.
So, and that's because he isprobably better at his rules
than I am, like he, he has.
He has had to probably dealwith people broaching his rules

(32:56):
by virtue of his upbringing, byvirtue of his situation.
Then I have, I've had thefucking luxury, the privilege of
calmness and you know thechoice about whether or not I'm
going to get provoked bysomething.
So, again, it's a lot of workthat I have to do and maybe
we'll figure out where some ofthose are.
But I do, boss, I deeplyrespect your take on these

(33:17):
things and again, I can't.
It's very hard.
It's very hard Sometimes whenyou say, shit, I, I'm like, I, I
just do not, it like does notcompute in a like very basic
ones and zeros kind of way.
But I love it and I admire itand I think it's it works for
you.
So it's, it's great, it'sreally remarkable.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
It's interesting, as you said, really several really
interesting things.
That one that I'll point out aswe go into this, that because
I've been thinking about thepiece with rules and I think
that is often now that you'vesaid that I'm like going back.
I'm like I think that's oftenwhen boss and I most line up,
when it's most clearly like bossand coach Bishop think this and
coach Castleton thinks adifferent thing.

(33:58):
It's usually like okay, thatwas a rule.
Like we got to have somefucking rules here and that was
the rule.
That was a rule.
Like we got to have somefucking rules here and that was
the rule, and I think it's.
I do.
I, in a funny way, I've gone inopposite direction, I think, in
some ways as you coach, withsome of the same challenges, in
that I really think about rulesa lot.
I really think about and Idon't just mean rules as like

(34:24):
you can do this or you can't dothat, but like this works this
way, this works that way.
And I got I've number of timesI've told daphne like she'll
tell me a whole legal thingthat's going on and I'll be like
, actually I'll tell you anexample I can share.
So some of you some of youwould know about.
You know, we had our dog waskilled by a neighbor's dog.
It was horrible, okay.
So they were ridiculous.

(34:45):
And so Daphne sued them.
And, um, at one point for one ofthe hearings, daphne calls me
and she's like can you believe?
You know this woman.
She didn't say woman, but that.
But I wouldn't incriminate herhere, but can you believe this
woman?
She came, she came, you know,and asked me if she could sit on
the bench, neck, you know thatI was sitting on and I said, oh,

(35:07):
that's great, we won, oh.
And she was like what are youtalking?
I was like, oh, it's oh.
I was like the whole thing'sover.
I was like it's over now.
Yeah, I was like she asked youif she could sit on a public and
to daphne, she was like whatare you talking?
I was like it is over, like youwon.
Now you just tell her whatshe's got to do to make you go
away.

(35:28):
And Daphne couldn't reallyappreciate her process and I was
like don't you understand?
Like it's time to chill withchampagne, it's over.
And it's because I have had tobe in positions where I have to
figure out very quickly who's inconflict, who's up, who's got
the power here, who's down?
So I do have rules.

(35:49):
I watch, and anytime somebodyasks for permission from
somebody else, that's the powerdynamic.
Now my mother never said hey,orlando, can I go to the
supermarket?
Now, you know why?
Because she was the fucking momand I was the fucking kid.
I ask.
She doesn't ask.
Once you ask, you're there Now.
Daphne had no reason to havespent any time with that,

(36:10):
thinking.
Daphne was living in her housewith her family, her grandmother
, cooking food after school.
She had to figure all that shitout on the way home.
She just went the fuck home andhad her snack.
So I think like I, so I've spenta lot of time on rules.
A.
So I think like I, so I'vespent a lot of time on rules, a
lot of time.
And and one thing I will shareabout what you said about you

(36:41):
know when I go to that cause Ican he.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
One particular instance was a friend, a mutual
friend of ours at the time, hadbeen having some marital issues
and as a friend, you guys won't,you won't, you won't believe
this.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Like like this is a real thing.
I won't tell the details.
This was really horrible, Ithought.
Anyway, so, as a friend, ashe's sharing what's happened to
him, I'm like well, you know mymarriage, I've had this trouble.
Blah, blah, blah, you could trythis.
He gets bad about like somefantasy football conflict, like
literally like should we draftat this time, or that?
I don't even remember what thething was and he put like the

(37:13):
core of all the marital shit Ihad told him on our fantasy
football board yeah, and mycoach is that exactly what
fucking exactly exactly whathappened.
When I tell you my temperaturewent to a thousand.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
He was walking to his car he was walking to his car
to go hunt him down and takecare of him, and I had to talk
cause like whoa, whoa, hold onit.
Like does he have it coming?

Speaker 3 (37:38):
yes, yes, like coach, literally was like orlando,
please do not kill him, like Iwas, like I, if I, if I lay
hands on him, I'm telling yousomebody better come save him.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
He gonna die holy fuck yeah, listen boss, you got
to appreciate this because I hadmade a value judgment about
that guy and I knew he was atotal piece of crap and I would
never have told him my thing.
So see, you see that I mean Ilearned I, yeah, yeah, right
listen I don't do it yeah I, Idon't.

Speaker 4 (38:11):
I don't want you to be meaner, I'm not trying to
toughen you up.
I'm not saying like, hey, getout here and, uh, bring your
shift.
Nothing like that.
I, I love the sweetness, I justneed to know what shape it
takes.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
I don't think you believe the sweet, how you don't
like good nice boys, you don't.
You always say, like Matt Damon, nice boy, bullshit.
I don't think you buy it.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
I think you think we all have a deep, dark secret.
No, no, no, no, no, no, andwe're all like you know a wolf
in sheep's clothing.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
I want to hear.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
I think that you are misunderstanding what I have
said about quote, unquote.
Nice guys.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
And what I get nervous about is when people in
general I use the term nice guys, and nice guys are easy to
point out but when peoplebelieve themselves to be most
often good and I don't want youto have terrible self-esteem, I
don't want you to think I'm apiece of shit and I can't do
anything right but when youbelieve yourself to be mostly on

(39:07):
the right side or to mostlyhave ripped views or any other
list of things, it becomesdifficult to point out to those
people hey, you fucked thisthing up, this individual thing
that I think you fucked you.
Matt Damon said diversity is infront of the camera, not behind
it, and people are like hey,matt damon, no, you're wrong

(39:28):
about that.
And he's like wait, but I'm notracist, I, I, I love diversity,
I want and then.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
And then he said I fucked, I'm so sorry.
You're right, I learned a lotfrom this.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I've come but it took time and changed his rules well
, that's it.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
But what I'm saying is that there are some people
out there that you're like, hey,you fucked this up.
And they're like shit, I fuckedup again.
How did I fuck this up?
Tell me what I need to do Like.
What I want is for people tounderstand that their actions
are representative of who theyare, but you cannot have a core
ideology that says what I am isa good person, because then you

(40:02):
have a much harder timeacknowledging when you screw up
and how to fix that I want youto feel good about yourself.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
No, no, no, no, that's good.
I do not have that coreideology, so that's really nice.
The nice guy stuff is is allwell and good.
I've never.
One of the reasons I think thatI I'm about to explode over the,
over the soup tureen in WholeFoods and then a guy cutting
across lanes of traffic to cutit, is because it is so.

(40:28):
I know my position on those.
It is obvious, whereas all theother ones I'm always like I see
everybody's point of view.
It's like Rashomon in my headand I'm like I see everything.
I don't know where to think.
I certainly don't think I'm thearbiter of what's right or wrong
, and so maybe that's where alot of the inaction comes from,
because I just go fuck, I got toreally think about this, like
you know and it's.
And it gets in that momentwhere most people would get

(40:51):
heated because they have abaseline rule or they have like
a thing where they say I'm thelaw or my way is that whatever.
I don't have any of that.
I feel like I'm a, I feel likejello in that situation, you
know what I mean.
I don't think like, oh, I'm, Iknow the one thing I can hang my

(41:11):
hat on is I'm the good guy inthis situation.
I have never thought that, ever,ever.
It's just not part of my.
Maybe it's being raised by aEuropean parent who beats on you
or whatever, but I alwaysthought most things are my fault
, you know like.
So you don't know if that makesany sense, like it's just a
child of abuse and things I justusually generally go.
I probably fucked this up.
And then, with the ADHD on topof it, I go, okay, I know myself

(41:32):
well enough to know I Iprobably didn't even hear what
they did.
They say this or what you know,like it's.
It's that basic where you'relike you just assume you don't
have all the information andthen maybe it is, maybe it is a
bit I don't want to sayemasculating, but maybe it is.
Maybe it does steal some of mywhat would be thunder if I had a

(41:56):
better sort of overlay of rulesthat I was operating from, I
guess.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
So, number one I love everything you just said.
Number two I think one of thethings is when you say to
somebody you fucked this thingup and they hear I think you're
a bad person that have pissedyou off or hurt you or whatever

(42:21):
else.
Because when I say, hey, youmissed my birthday and that hurt
my feelings, they hear I thinkyou're a horrible person and you
should go to hell.
And that's not what I'm tryingto say.
I'm trying to say you missed mybirthday and you hurt my
feelings.
So I think that you, havingthat sort of distance between
those things, is you are feelingthis animosity I have towards

(42:42):
that thing, and that's not yoursweetness.
That is a different thing.
But what I really like what youjust said is.
So I'm actually going to try todrag us into this episode right
now.
I think what you and I bothrespond to about Wayne is that
he has a code and we understandwhat his code is and we

(43:03):
understand why he does what hedoes.
And while we might think, hey,you didn't need to hit that guy
in the face with a trumpet, weunderstand why he did it and so
he is predictable and I oftenagree with him.
It is actually like thepredictability for me is one of
the biggest things.
If I know how you're going toreact, I know why you're doing
it.
Me is one of the biggest thingsIf I know how you're going to
react, I know why you're doingit.

(43:24):
I am even if I disagree with it, I'm more able to accept it
Because I know that you have areasoning behind it and that
makes a lot of sense to me.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
I certainly understand thatperspective.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
Yeah, and so now we're going to watch Wayne or
not Wayne the episode, I shouldsay not Wayne himself, Just I
should say not Wayne himself,Just outrageous levels of
violence in this one.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
In a way that I enjoyed a lot.
This is so, so, so interesting.
This is where I thought youwere going to whoop me on this
one.
We open up with a person wedon't know running Looks like a
teenager of some kind.
I will say once again, seanSimmons, creator of Wayne, has
definitely grown up without shit, because this is what a shitty

(44:12):
neighborhood looks like.
It is so wonderful if youactually have been without to
know that people still there arepeople in Hollywood who still
have come from places wherepeople are poor, actually poor,
not tv poor like.
Oh, tv poor is friends or youknow you're like, oh, they've

(44:32):
got to share an apartment.
Oh right, yeah, you know,shameless does it the best.
Uh, we always say they reallyreally get it, um and uh, but
this is a really poorneighborhood.
Um, can I go.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
I want to toss this in as we're going into this
scene and and especially becauseI remember episode one, I
immediately went oh my god, it'sa western.
And as this episode started Isaid, oh my god, it's a horror
movie.
Yeah, running falling, yeah,the unseen threat, the you know

(45:07):
the odd angles, that very lowangle at the shirt as the
character runs up into the house, which looks?
The house looks familiar, thehouse looks familiar to me.
I wasn't necessarilyautomatically like I know where
that is, but I feel I was like,I feel like I've seen that house
before, um, so anyway, Ithought I think that's, I think
that's relevant to this episode,but I also think that house
before um, so anyway, I thoughtI think that's, I think that's
relevant to this episode.

(45:27):
But I also think that somethingthat has been done throughout
wayne, as I think about it moreand more, I think there's been
like almost romantic comedy ish,kind of treatment in certain
places.
There's been a lot of playingwith the genre and elements of
the genres and then just layingthis like waneness over the top
of it all.
That, I think, deserves someattention.

(45:50):
It's like a level of playingwith the filmmaking.
I think it's prettysophisticated.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
Yes, that, exactly Playing with the filmmaking I
love.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Absolutely, absolutely correct.
And once the guy disappearsinto the house and we do have
that horror movie sort of vibewe get an insert of a lawn dwarf
like a lawn gnome hanging, likehung around his neck by a chain

(46:21):
, around his neck by a chain.
And it's funny because thisshow does an incredible job of
turning general tropes on theirear, because the concept of for
those who we haven't mentionedit before, I know we've
mentioned it but I'll repeat itChekhov's gun is a narrative
principle of storytelling whereyou introduce an element,

(46:45):
something you know, a gun,whatever theoretically
unimportant, and you bury thelead and then that implement
will take on greatersignificance.
You see this all the time.
The one I always think about isJack Ryan in Patriot Games
swings an anchor at Sean Bean.
They're fighting in the bigfinal battle and it's one of

(47:09):
those anchors with the sharpkind of points on it and he
misses and it gets wedged in theboat that they're fighting on
and he pulls it and he can'tdislodge it.
But the next shot is an insertof the points sticking up and
you're like, okay, I know whatthat is it's always this, so
there it is.
Now this one.
I saw this first in Wayne.

(47:30):
I said, oh, this is like a.
They call this an extremeclose-up ECU.
It is.
Everything else is blurred outand you just see this gnome and
I thought, oh, they'reestablishing.
This is like a horror vibe,this is like a sadism or some
some.
Anyone that would hang a lawngnome with a chain, an actual

(47:53):
chain around his neck, uh, likea noose is, uh, this is a twist.
We're in twisted motherfuckerterritory.
Um, boss, will you uh walk usthrough?
Uh, continuing on this?

Speaker 4 (48:04):
yeah, so it's's the closeup on the gnome who, uh,
doesn't look happy.
It actually looks kind ofpleased.
He's fine with himself.
Uh, the stranger bolts to thefront door, locks it, chains it,
looks out the window, walksinto the obviously poor house.
Very well done on that.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Like tenement level yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
Yeah, it's not, it's not good.
So he's fidgeting.
He goes and he makes himselfsome canned ravioli and then
pumps himself up by screamingabout how it's his fucking house
and punching the air and youcan't get in here, and there's a
knock at the door.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
He's got a knife in his hand, so he's like.
He's like miming stabbing withthe knife, but he turned the
stove up so high that theravioli is like burning right
away, which is like there's justlike right well you gotta you,
you gotta scorch it in order toget rid of the metallic taste.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Like we, we actually ate pretty well when I was a kid
, for being pretty poor, my mymom did a good job on that.
But there was a couple of timeswhere I had some, some canned
green beans and canned ravioli.
That was actually at myfriend's dad's sad divorce dad
apartment.
That probably wasn't the bestexample, but it tastes bad.
It's not good, it doesn't.

(49:18):
There are a few things from mychildhood where I'm like
actually, let me tell yousomething Budding lunch meat, I
will.
Childhood where I'm like,actually, let me tell you
something budding lunch meat, Iwill get done on that.
It does, I am into it, it'sfine.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Canned ravioli is not one, just yeah, not not a fan
of the the beefaroni, uh, okay,so meat shouldn't be in a can.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Meat should not be in a can now see, speaking of
rules, I mean that's one worthdiscussing.
Okay, I discussing.
I can't come up with thescenario where I'd prefer my
meat being in a can.
I can say that?
So we're on our way.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Tuna can work.
I've eaten some pretty damnaverage corned beef hash out of
a can, not gonna lie.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
I prefer it homemade.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
That's such a perfectly stated.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Sometimes you get a mood for average carby.
It's the only place you can getcarby fast sometimes.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Listen, you're talking to a guy who keeps a box
or two of stovetop stuffing ondeck.
Sometimes that's just the brandof mediocrity.
I need in my deck.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
No, I get that.
I do understand that.
Any kind of box of noodles Likean angel hair, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Dustin Rolls, producer Dustin Rolls of this
podcast and the founder ofPajiba, eats canned bread, and
he suffers every time.
Oh, he is, I don't know, I mean, you talk about getting dragged
.
Everybody on his staff From thebeginning of time, has

(50:49):
tormented this poor man Abouthis love of canned bread and
Until this, moment I am 50.
I will be 52 this summer anduntil this moment I didn't even
know that existed yeah, like andif, and if you reach out to him
with a text to ask him about it, he will be like oh for fuck,

(51:11):
really like.
Who told this?
Again?
You know it's like yeah, you'regoogling canned bread, yeah I
am right now.
It is mental because I'm likewhat is happening?
Yeah, yeah, Wow, it's not.
I mean worse he he actuallymade me some and he was like
Castleton has some white trash,Just try this.
And I tasted it.

(51:31):
I had a little butter on it.
I was like it's fine, Like Itotally get it.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
It was not, it was, you know, gross, but I get it
Sometimes people grow up withthat and you know technically
edible, it's like think of it asbread bread it's got a weird
sponginess to it.
It's kind of cake-ish, it's notbread.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
It's brown bread.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
Yes, there's no crunchy edge of it, if you're
imagining anything like that?

Speaker 2 (52:03):
no, no, there's no edge.
Edge of it.
If you're imagining anythinglike that, no, oh, I see.
No, there's no edge at all.
Yes, the edge would be likeputty or something, I don't know
.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Yeah, I would also like to mention on the trip
where I had to try the brownbread, brown canned bread.
He also ordered mashed potatopizza and I was like, why would
you hurt me?
It was two of the things I loveso much.
It wasn't good, it didn't tastegood.
Some people loved it.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
It was not for me there was also French vanilla
beer.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
I'm only going to take this further off the rails,
so I'm going to French vanillabeer coach.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
Yeah banana bread, beer Somebody had that, oh dear,
what is happening?
We didn't care about ourinsights before pandemic turns
out.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah.
So this young gentleman, keepgoing, boss, he is miming.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
Miming that he's going to stab people because
he's super tough.
He's doing his karate Knock onthe door and he says Dad,
probably, not, probably, yourdad isn't knocking on the door,
probably, but he was hoping.
So he walks over and he checksthrough the peephole and we get
a wide shot of him lookingthrough the door and then, very
slowly, in the horror genre, ahand coming up behind his head,

(53:20):
grabbing him, slamming it intothe door two, three times and
then just beating the shit outof him up against the walls,
throwing him into the other room, wrapping a rope around his
neck and punching him in theface several times, and then
grabbing the pan of screaminghot ravioli and dumping it over
his head before hitting him inthe face with said pan and

(53:43):
presumably knocking him out.
Mostly not all the way,actually.
He kind of gets up and crawlsaround on the floor.
He's shouting please.
And then we see the gardengnome drop on the chain into
frame.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
Before being whipped around.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Like a morning star.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Like a crusstar, like a.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Like a Like, a Like, a Like.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
Mel Gibson sucks shit and he is one of the worst
people he might be, somebody Iwould consider irredeemable, but
in Braveheart, when he marcheshis fucking horse into the guy's
bedroom, drops it, swings itaround, smashes the shit out of
his head, sort of in that vein.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
I forget.
I always get Morningstar andFlail confused.
The one with the chain Is theMorningstar.
Is the Morningstar?
Okay, yeah, and then the Flailis just like a.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
I gotta break up with my boyfriend.
I just realized I know way toomuch about medieval weaponry and
it's all entirely his fault.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
I really love how that moment came together for us
.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
All right.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Well, there it is.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
He's the reason.
I know the difference between acatapult and trebuchet, but I
don't know my best friend'sbirthday.
I can't keep that knowledge inmy head, fucker.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
One of the things that was so hi Buttercups, hi
people who listen to thispodcast, for ted lasso.
Um, there was a lot of violencehere.
Uh, it is hyper, um, stylizedintentionally.
Um, the, the ragu, or the sortof.
When the ravioli was dumped onthe poor kid's head, it was

(55:23):
black, like it was brownish,blackish, like motor oil colored
, which suggests like the levelof gristle on the existing pan
and and the.
You know these are choices.
The, the gnome goes into frame.
The kid is begging, no, no, no,and we see the person swing it.

(55:46):
And then we know that, as wepull out, the person whoever
would the aggressor was, hadfollowed through with, um, with
that attack, that, and I waslike what am I watching at this
point?

Speaker 3 (56:00):
like, yeah, I, I, yeah, I started trying to decide
what I thought it was and Ialmost knew I was wrong, but I
did feel almost like a panicneed to understand what was
going on and even what I wantedto happen next, because I was
like I don't know who this is.
Maybe they got an assholebecoming it, I don't know.
I really was like is this bad,is this good?

(56:22):
Who is that?
Is that Wayne's big brother Wasdefinitely one of my thoughts.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
Yes, that is what I thought.
Did you too?
Yeah, because I couldn'tremember exactly what Wayne's
house looked like.
Are we seeing the big brother?

Speaker 3 (56:33):
That's what I thought I was like.
Oh, that's the big brother.
Is that dad?
In spryer days I had a rush ofthoughts trying to like make
sense of this.
So well done in terms ofdisorienting us, and then you
know as stories at their bestcan do.
And then and horrifying.
Yeah, because I don't care whoyou are, even you do have it
coming somebody pouring somescalding hot sauce shit over you

(56:56):
.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
That's, that's rough and then hitting you with the
hot pan and listen.
This is where I talk about howthis show zigs when everybody
else zags.
I thought the insert of thegnome was atmospheric.
I thought it was an establishedshot.
I didn't know that was theweapon.
Yeah, I was like wait what?

Speaker 3 (57:16):
And that's an element of this show, just as you say.
That jumped out at me.
Sorry, coach, I didn't mean tocut.
No, no, no, no, please, realquick, is this world is so
dangerous, wayne's world?
Oh, ha ha ha.
But Wayne's world is sodangerous that that everything

(57:38):
is dangerous about it.
You're watching TV one minute.
You could brain a motherfuckerwith that TV.
The next minute there's ahanging gnome that at one point
was somebody's cute little thingand it's got some teeth missing
and we're going to hang it andwe're going to beat the shit out
of somebody.
It's just a hammer.
Forget the fucking hammer.
Hammer's supposed to be forbuilding shit.

(57:59):
No, yes, no, no, it's forfucking people up.
It's like everything in thisworld is charged with a level of
violence and danger, at leastpotentially.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Yeah, intentionally.
Yeah, I broke a perfectly goodzenith.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
A zenith we had a zenith and I laugh so hard when
they mention that zenith.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
Oh my god, that was the last time that Bobby
Lucchetti knew what a good TVwas.
He knew, yeah, as far as 1993is concerned, you can't get a
better TV.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
No, yeah, yeah, yeah, good call, good call yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
I mean, if you believe the time frame on this,
that thing was probably 35 yearsold and still Still kicking,
was probably 35 years old andstill still kicking, still
kicking.
Come on perfectly good.
Um, so that was the cold open.
We get the title.
You know, smash title sequenceuh, wayne, um.
And now we begin uh, chapternine, uh of each uh, all of the

(58:55):
uh shows are labeled as chapters.
This one is entitled what,coach?
Thought we was friends, thoughtwe was friends, and okay.
So we now pivot to Ocala,florida, and we see city of
Ocala community center andpublic pool and I'm like why are

(59:19):
we at the pool?
Like what is what is happeninghere?
Um, and uh, coach, walk usthrough this please.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
So we cut to, um, we cut to a very blued out.
We know it's a pool, so thewater, um.
Shot of Dell, uh, looking downat us, very extreme angle,
camera's probably about at theheight of Del's knee or foot,
depending on just how far away,but I mean very extreme angle.

(59:49):
We are meant to understand thatshe's looking down onto or into
something.
So as we go we see the littleflickers and a voice.
Hey, excuse me, del looks over.
There's a security guard, blackwoman standing there and she
asks straight up you gonna killyourself?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
and Del says no now did you think she was gonna kill
herself?

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
I wasn't sure what was happening.
I didn't think kill herself.
There's something about Del tothis point.
That didn't strike me to be thepoint she was at or headed
toward.
This wasn't what I got from it,but I get why if you're that
security guard and you comeacross some person just staring
down into a pool in the middleof the night while you ask that
question.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Right, and do you remember anything about, because
it's been a little while but doyou?
Remember anything about?
Oh, what about the pool withher mom?

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
That's her hiding place when all else is lost.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
Not just her hiding place, but that was after her
mom died and she sort of brokedown.
I think that she froze.
She wasn't able to deal withany of it.
She went to the pool, shejumped into the pool, she came
out and then she was able tostart.
Well, she was screaming underthe pool.
Screaming under the pool also.
In the water yeah, but screamingin the pool.
She was in the pool and then,after she got done with that,

(01:01:12):
she was able to go rage ass allover school Whether or not that
was a good idea.
This first step the pool andcoming to terms with whatever
feelings those are that allowsher to move past it in a way.
I would.
I would say that spraying herclassmates with blood at the
school blood drive that shearranged probably is not the
best way to move past things,but it was a sign that she was

(01:01:35):
moving.
She she had this traumaticbreakup with Wayne.
She's going to go to the pooland get her shit together and
then she's going to go figureout what else she needs to do.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Well, I don't know if this is intentional.
I'm going to run with it though, but I think the idea of her
being at the pool with her momand then going into that water
and emerging and now we haveagain, at sort of this low point
, going to the water has somepretty definite birth rebirth

(01:02:10):
stuff going on Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Baptism cleansing.
Yeah, there's a lot here.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Yeah, there's a lot here about sort of the
reemerging, cleansing, all thosekinds of images and themes that
we play with.
So I did think Zell was goingto jump into the pool, just as
she had when that lifeguard hadto dive in.
I guess didn't have to, butcertainly from his point of view

(01:02:37):
, had to dive in and get her outof there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
So okay, so sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, so
you're gonna kill yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
She says, no, yeah, so, uh, you're gonna steal some
shit.
Yeah, I'm gonna steal thegoddamn pool water, just can't
take the boss, not a girl.
And then, um, so why do theyneed a security guard?
She asked, so kids don't breakin and kill themselves or steal
shit, which I found to be funny.
I think it's interesting.

(01:03:08):
This is another example of Delbumping into someone who,
class-wise, can match her energy.
Yes.
Right, yeah.
So, like, don't come into mydiner starting a bunch of shit.
Don't come in.
I'm just here collecting myfucking check.

(01:03:29):
I probably gotta be at work inthe morning.
Don't.
Don't come in here killingyourself and give me a bunch of
fucking paperwork to fill out.
God damn it.
Like.
There's like an energy aroundit.
It's very, um, practical andalso like you don't.
You don't scare me in the least, little girl energy that she
gets back from these people.
So, anyway, um, yeah, well, youdon't gotta worry about that

(01:03:52):
with her.
She turns back to the pool.
Um, you must be having oneshitty night if this is the best
place you could find.
Accurate, shitty couple ofyears.
But who's counting?
Ouch, and we know all that thatmeans, or most of what that
means.
If you grab some of them foamkickboards and towels over there

(01:04:14):
, you can make sorry, there's areally good place for you to
sleep off.
Whatever mess you're in, keepyour mitts off the pool
chemicals and your ass on dryland.
I don't need to be rescuingnobody in my good chinos.
You hear me Again, verypractical.
I don't know what the fuck yougot going on.

(01:04:34):
As long as your presence hereis going to make more trouble
for me, get some fucking sleep,know, I don't need this in my
life I just thought it was youknow like it, I don't know.
It all worked for me there and Ithought it was an interesting
way to show some compassion.
It wasn't.
Oh, come here, baby, give me ahug.

(01:04:55):
Tell me, tell mama's girl, shewas like ghost, fucking take a
nap.
Yeah, I don't even know whyyou're goddamn here.
I actually don't want to know.
Please don't tell me why you'rehere.
Just I'm going to finish myrounds now and pretend I never
saw you.
That's what's going to happen.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
And I am almost always on Del's side Not that
I'm not on her side in this case, but I think that the
difference between thisinteraction with the security
guard and the interaction withtracy back in the restaurant is
that dell had every right to bein that restaurant to order the
coffee and tracy like sort ofinvaded her privacy to say hey,

(01:05:32):
are you sure you want thatcoffee?
She's like yeah, bitch, I wantthat fucking coffee.
I thought that she was right inthe way that she responded.
In this case, dell, you didbreak into the community center
and pool and the securityguard's job is to make sure that
there aren't kids there.
So well, I don't think dell wasnecessarily rude when she said,
yeah, I'm gonna steal thegoddamn water, like that was not

(01:05:53):
as bitchy as she could havebeen, because I think that dell
understood I'm I shouldn'treally be here, like I'm not
gonna to be nice to this woman,but she's not in the wrong and
so I like the way that thishappened.
I think you're right about thatthere was a tiny bit more
respect on Belle's part.
The security guard, I think,picked up on that and was like
you weren't having a good night,but just do what you need to do

(01:06:14):
.
Don't make me get my chinos wet.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Got him a good chinos .
I loved that line so much likethat was her concern.
She's like I got because thereare other chinos.
She hasn't washed them yet.
It's a fucking pain in the ass.
You know, I'm just like, oh, Ijust love, I love it, I love it.
These are my good chinos.
I just even bought them.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
They're the new ones, just that's right, that's what
I was gonna say, even that is sodrenched in class like I've
actually personally had to workthrough.
I'll have whatever item ofclothing for eight years and
finally I'll be like you knowwhat.
That's probably the useful lifeof a t-shirt.
Orlando, it's okay, it's okay.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
Pens on the t-shirt.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
You can buy a new black t-shirt now.
No, I'm not saying a concertt-shirt, I'm just saying my
shoes, my whatever, like I'll be, like those are my good, you
know, and I still have that inme.
So when she said my goodcheetos, I was like listen, that
lady has another pair ofcheetos she really doesn't want
to fucking wear like pleasedon't make her wear.

(01:07:16):
They don't want to and shedoesn't have 10 pairs either, by
the way.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
So yeah, anyway, I think no onehas to walk around saying oh,
by the way, I'm working class,oh well, that's interesting
because I'm poor.
I think you can sort of likesome of the things people pay
attention to and comment on,tell you a ton For sure it's the

(01:07:39):
inverse of.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
You should borrow ten thousand dollars from your
family, or or wherever, justgrab it yeah, just you know,
yeah, just somebody somebody'sgot ten grand, just pick it off
the money, bush, just exactlyright I don't know why
everyone's so lazy.
They don't pull himself up bytheir own bootstraps and just
pick money off a tree.
Um, okay, so we get a shot ofAdele.

(01:08:01):
She's like kind of I love thisshot because it's like a
straight down from the top shot.
You know a lot of good camerawork in this series, you know
there's also a lot of extremeangles in this episode.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Just calling that out real quick, like we are at a
crisis point and things feelchaotic and things look chaotic,
which adds to the feeling ofchaos.
We're at a low angle.
We're tracking this kid running.
Oh my god, there's a hand frombehind him.
He's looking out the fuckingdoor, but all the space is
behind him and here comes theperson.
There's a lot of the energy isfrenetic.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
And it's intentional, lest anyone wonders.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
Oh, do they need to do this, or they just need.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Oh, no, no no, yes, this is where we are.
Dell is looking at the busticket in their hand and it says
non refundable.
I believe it's what?
Uh, we get an insert of it.
Um, she lays it down next toher.
Um, like, lays it down next toher.
It's like the only thing shehas left is this bus ticket.
You would lay down next to apartner or a dog or something or

(01:09:05):
a loved one.
It's all she's got left and itsays not refundable, subject to
blah, blah, blah, some kind ofchange order.
So now we cut back to Maureen'splace and Wayne walks out and

(01:09:25):
we get this scene.
It's so funny to watch Coachwatch this for the first time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
I'm actually curious to hear this, because I
definitely had a string ofreactions.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, reggie's sitting at the table.
It's morning.
Wayne comes out of his room orwherever he was sleeping,
reggie's sitting at the table,morning coffee boy.
And what what he so he's gotsome cocoa puffs, uh, uh, cereal
on the table.
Um and uh, like a probably hadabout a third of a jug, a gallon

(01:10:00):
sized container, of whole milkand a third of it is left.
Two thirds is gone.
And he says morning coffee boy.
He's already sitting there likewaiting for him.
He says oh, don't worry, I gotyou a bowl too.
So in front of Reggie he hasthe type of bowl little children
usually use for Halloween trickor treating Enough to hold your

(01:10:22):
entire haul.
The type of bowl littlechildren usually use for
Halloween trick-or-treatingEnough to hold your entire haul.
He's got a big plastic.
It's bigger than a salad bowl,it's that big.
And he says I got you a bowl.
And he hands Wayne astandard-sized salad bowl type
of thing and places it in frontof Wayne.
He's got his toothpick in.

(01:10:42):
He's smacking his lips.
Wayne is just nonplussed.
He watches this, doesn't sayanything, just sighs and sits
down across from Reggie.
Before Wayne has a chance tograb the Cocoa Puffs, reggie
grabs them and pours just aboutthe entire bowl.

(01:11:04):
Uh dire box in his own bowl andhe's watching wayne as he pours
out all that cereal.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
Yeah, even as, because I saw that whatever toy
was in there fell.
I saw that in real time.
I noticed it, yeah, and Ithought, like that didn't even
cat, like he didn't even likeflick his eye down like, oh,
what the fuck was that?
Like he's just like I amemptying this box into my bowl
as you sit there with an emptybowl, fuck you.
Like it's so.

(01:11:33):
It's so on the nose.
It's the opposite of subtle andit's also so.
It's like, in a literal way,childish, because you are a
grown person of voting age andyou are eating chocolate, cocoa
Puffs.
Yeah, it's all intended to givethis sense of he is an
overgrown child.
There's a bizarre brand ofsibling rivalry.

(01:11:55):
There's a lot going on here.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
There's a lot going on.
It's playful if it wasn't soconflict-oriented.
So even how he slides the boxacross to Wayne once he's done.
He slides it across with thisreal I don't know this really
determined shove and Wayne hassort of his head down just kind

(01:12:19):
of taking it all in, hasn't saida word, grabs the box box and
then pours in whatever's leftand it's generally, you know,
the stuff that falls out of thebag and gets in the box, kind of
thing Like there's.
You know there are hundreds ofCocoa Puffs in Reggie's Bowl and
what.
Three or four or five.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
Maybe Right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
Yeah, come into Wayne's Bowl.
And then he puts the box down,doesn't say a word, takes the
milk, pours the milk in Againnot a word and slams the milk
sort of down on the counter.
Now it's his turn to say takethis milk from me in a weird way

(01:13:00):
or something.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
I don't know.
I also thought it was I don'tgive a fuck about your petty
annoyances, which is a line Ithink I've pretty much stolen
from silence of the lambs.
Uh, that's something.
That is that that is said, butlike his petty, like he he's
like I'm gonna do this thing andget on your nerves, and wayne

(01:13:22):
is like I don't give a fuckabout you, reggie, yeah, move,
yes, very much you know what Imean.
Like he's like oh, you can'thave my cocoa puffs.
Like I don't really give muchof a fuck about breakfast.
To be honest with you.
Like that's the energy I feel,like I eat like once every three
days.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Yeah, I don't give a shit.
What do you think's happeninghere?

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Like I had a full dinner last night and it was
like I'll be full till Tuesdayon this one.
So go ahead, boss.

Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
Well, so what is happening here to me feels like
just a slight escalation of whatMaureen was doing at dinner the
previous night, which was theyare putting on the face of this
is a very happy family, yes,this is a normal.
Listen, brothers fight, it'sfine, come on, you're roughhouse

(01:14:09):
.
Sometimes it makes me crazy,like I know of a very waspy
family where the oldest brother,being six years older than the
youngest, used to do things likegrab his four-year-old brother
when he was 10 by the ankle andwalk him upstairs so like he was
either hitting his head or likelike that was some real

(01:14:29):
significant shit.
That was full-on child abuse ofthe child and the younger one
and his parents were like oh ohboy that little four-year-old
probably had it coming Boys,just fight, that's fucking
amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
It's so crazy.
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:14:47):
Yeah, no, there's a lot.
So there is a.
Whenever I feel like there is afacade of we are going to be
polite and nice in order to notupset the family, even though
directly underneath there is,like this, roiling dysfunction
and abuse.
Like it, it I, I can't be nice.
It's why dell had to come inand say, like fuck you and fuck

(01:15:10):
your fucking pottery bowl.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Yeah, she couldn't take it.
Yeah, she really couldn't.
She could not stomach thebullshit of this and you know
it's funny.
Until you said that that's sucha great point Because say what
you will about the Lucchettifamily, those motherfuckers real
.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
Yes, yeah they might be violent.

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
They might be, but they real.
Ain't nobody sitting aroundthere pretending I'm going to
say, oh, could you chop somewood?
Well, oh sure, sweetie, I'llget to it just as soon as I fuck
you.
Go chop your goddamn likethere's no pretense.
So I could see where, yeah,dell is like what is this
bullshit?

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
yeah is anybody gonna say what they really mean yeah
it's detente or whatever right,yeah, yeah, no, and that makes
me sick.
The story about the little kidgetting I don't.
It makes me and because you,the internalized violence in
that and the parents allowing it.
Yes, so guilty, and you want topull the mom aside and be like
what are you?
What the fuck?

(01:16:10):
yeah, and then you go to the dadand you're like why?
This is why I talk about baddads like there's not a lot of
the role models for dads are, soI saw a video on social media
today and it bothered me.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
It's so funny this topic comes up today because it
really bothered me.
I didn't comment because one Idon't know these people, I don't
really give that much of a shitand I like, what am I going to
argue with them about?
But the video was this littlekid like weeping, like heavy
breathing kind of weeping, but Idon't want to go to jail.
I don't want to go to jail.

(01:16:43):
Um, I don't want to go to jail.
I want to go to jail and the momis very calm, you're like, well
, but you wouldn't listen to meand none of my punishments have
worked, and and this kid isfucking sobbing and I can't, and
I, you know, I can't even go tosleep without my light and the
food and all this shit.

(01:17:03):
And it's going on and on andpeople cracking, you know, like
in the comments, cracking up andI was like what kind of
traumatizing fucking shit isthis?
And one person said somethingalong those lines, because I
started scanning the commentsand the response was like no,
that's why he'll do everythinghe can to avoid it.
I, I was like you have humanpsychology so fucked up.

(01:17:24):
I don't even know where tobegin because this behavior,
internalized and given 10, 12years to marinate, this is going
to be some kid walking aroundsome city punching somebody in
the face for zero fucking reason.
The idea you used a phraseearlier, boss, that people use a

(01:17:44):
lot, which is about tougheningup, and I think there are ways
to build resilience.
I don't think that everythingis a coddling moment, I get that
.
But the idea of intentionallytraumatizing a little kid, and
because they don't understand,because they can't process it,

(01:18:07):
you know another one that comesup and I get this one doesn't
bother me as much as I'm goingto call the police on you
because you won't go to bed orwhatever the fuck it was.
Is this and Jimmy Kimmel has itwhere they eat the kids, can't
they say they ate the halloweencandy?

Speaker 4 (01:18:25):
and I'm like, yes, I was gonna mention that.
Good, I'm glad I'll hand itover to you.
I'm like what?

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
I'm like what the fuck is this?

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
you know, that's how I was go, go, go.
What I was actually thinkingwhen she was.

Speaker 4 (01:18:37):
when you were telling me about whatever that parent
was doing, I was thinking Ifucking hate it when jimmy Jimmy
Kimmel makes the parentspretend to eat their kid's candy
on Halloween, because then youwatch kids cry or get upset or
angry, or feel like theirproperty shouldn't be valued and
that their physical boundariesshouldn't be respected.
I hate it.
I hate everything about it.

(01:18:58):
I hate every fucking goddamnthing Also.
I hate the idea of tougheningsomebody up.
Also, I think resilience is agood thing.
I like resilience, I appreciateit a lot, but I think that is
because the world is fuckingtough and so sometimes you need
to develop resilience in orderto deal with that.

(01:19:19):
Nobody should come in and belike, hey, the world is really
hard, so I'm going to brand youbecause then you'll be tougher
and it's not going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
No, that's a hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
in the same vein, I hate when people say everything
happens for a reason.
So I'm like bitch, like I willgive this meaning once I have
processed it.
Don't tell me that God ismaking my dad die because
someday I'm going to learnsomething from that.
Like no, fuck off man, I'llfigure it out.
Don't tell me it happened for areason.
I will tell you what I got fromit happening.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
I so agree with what you just said and I don't want
to take us too far off thismoment with these two brothers
because there's a lot going onhere.
But I am with you on that.
Everything happens for a reason, and I think it robs people of
the ability and the habit ofdeciding what I'm going to make
of this now.
So now I'm going to sitpassively.

(01:20:10):
I'm just going to sit herepassively, just being very
obedient and waiting for thereason to be revealed to me,
like what are we even fuckingdiscussing?
So I, yes, so everything youjust said and, generally
speaking, the average persondoesn't need you coming in and
and and making your agenda,toughening them up by, frankly,

(01:20:30):
abusing your power in thesituation.
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
It robs people of agency and it allows them to
abdicate their responsibility todigest and and appropriately
react to the situation.
Yes, Also, all of those kids,every one of them, whether it's
to the Jimmy Kimmel or thelittle other child that you were
talking about crying about jailhas learned unequivocally that

(01:20:56):
they are not safe and that is areal thing.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Yes, I remember my babysitter's teenage son telling
me he saw my mother in anaccident.
I couldn't have been six.
There's no way I was six,because I know the time of my
life when I was in that houseand he told, oh yeah, and she,
she was bleeding, she was inthis accident, all this shit.
This guy's like looking back,I'm like what kinds of

(01:21:22):
sociopaths, yeah, have we beenmanufacturing?
This is a normal guy, like somekid who was in his biology
class a few hours earlier, whowas going out of his way to
convince me, my mother, thesource of everything in my life
had just been in some likehorrific accident and he saw it
on his way and he was justletting me know what?

Speaker 4 (01:21:46):
and just to make sure that we're drawing a
distinction with my niblings andall the little kids in my life,
because anybody who's not bloodrelated to me, they run to the
door to give me a hug becausethey love me.
My fucking nieces and nephew.
I, I did this, I made thishappen, I played this game with
them where I pretend that theyhate me and they pretend that

(01:22:06):
they hate me and then eventuallyactually it turns out they love
me very much.
So it's fine.
But one of the teasing thingsthat we do is I say to them
please don't give me any hugs orkisses.
I'm not really interested inthat right now.
And then, of course, thefour-year-old chases me around
and gives me a hug and makes mepick him up.
But that's the thing.
He knows that it's a game and Iknow that he knows that it's a

(01:22:27):
game and he and I have been ableto like through our
relationship within this safety.
I'm going to do a thing that isa trick.
That is not true.
You're going to know it's nottrue.
And then we're both going toplay.
And that is very, verydifferent from saying I'm going
to send you to jail because youwon't go to bed Like I'm.
Oh, this is why I have to killpeople.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Well, this is this is what we talked the other day
about.
You know, when you sometimesyou're in a divorce or you're,
you know, with a chaotic person,and then you, you know, get out
of the relationship, and thenyou're like, oh God, it's so
nice to have a stable person,you know, as the next person
there, because it gives you sortof a roadmap, a little bit of
like okay, it can be this way.
It's very difficult when youtake safety away from a child

(01:23:11):
and so in their family unitthey're not safe for them to
then grow up to the point wherethey're easy it's easy for them
to manufacture that on their own.
It just makes it more difficult, and so I don't think any of
those things are funny and um,and I love to laugh and I love a
good joke, but that thatdoesn't seem fucking hate pranks

(01:23:32):
.
I fucking hate pranks oh yeah,you've said that before.
You don't like pranks.
I mean, I like a good um ifeverybody's in on it.
I I like that type of thing,like you know like a good um.
I don't know, I guess itdepends if it's like a thing I
also I.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
I think safety is one of the things for me about a
prank.
And and also, like you justsaid, coach, if you haven't had
safety right like somebody who'salways felt safe, maybe it's
funnier to them.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
I don't know I mean, why do you think we're all
reacting to the world?
It's not.
It's used to be much.
It used to at least feel youhad at least the illusion of
safety.

Speaker 4 (01:24:09):
Yes, I'm so glad you said that I like that.
We have been doing this podcastlong enough that you knew to
say the illusion of safety.
That is exactly right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
It wasn't actual safety but it was at least some
of the pillars of societyfunctioned in the way that we
could expect them to function.
Now you're like, I'm just like,it's just chaos.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
People driving across intersections.
No really though?
No, really, it's like crazy.
You kind of feel like whoa, Ididn't know that was on the
table.

Speaker 2 (01:24:36):
Yeah, yeah, coach, I'm sorry I cut you off.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
What were you gonna say?
Oh, I know, I, I, I don't evenrecall which one was the cutoff,
we were all going, but I, I, Ithink that piece around safety
is so big and like personal workI've done over the last couple
years specifically around likehow unsafe I have generally felt
just through life, not justspecific stories.

(01:25:05):
I could tell you where, oh,bullets were literally flying
and I had to run.
That is a real thing but justgenerally sitting on the couch
feeling unsafe, and I just thinkmaking people feel unsafe it
should be done very cautiously.
I've said about pranks.
I'm going to say this realquick because I'll let youiously
.
I've said about pranks.
I'm going to say this realquick before I let you go.
I've said about pranks before,when people are like I'm going

(01:25:27):
to beat the shit out of you andthat's a prank, and then they're
like it's a prank.
That would be such a fuck uparound me because now I'm going
to beat your ass because it's aprank.

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
You're saying it's a prank like that's the end of the
beatdown.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
I just thought we generally had a fight a minute
ago.
Now I realize you was fuckingwith me.
Now you are really in danger.
I always think it's crazy whenthey're like it's a prank.
It's a prank.
That would not work at all ifyou did that to me.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
We have spent a tremendous amount of time on
this podcast, whatever talkingabout the safety of women in
society, or ab complete absence,uh, or lack thereof but what we
?
haven't we talked only a littlebit.
We probably should talk moreabout the how unsafe men are in
society and the projection andreaction based on that lack of

(01:26:17):
safety in men, which is whereyou get all these gun owners who
are getting ready for a fightbecause they think they're
imminently about to be invadedby some fucking phantom
organization to take their guns.
And you're like wait what?
Or take their job, likewhatever all that shit from
South.
You're just like what are youdoing?
Like they are feeling unsafe andit's something we do not train

(01:26:41):
Well, we do not reassure, we donot say uh, you're actually,
you're, you're good man, like ifBiden wins.
You're good Like, you knowyou're, you're going to
basically be business as usual.
Once upon a time, people usedto say like, oh, it doesn't
really matter who I vote for,who gives a shit, I'll get
fucked either way, and, and thatwas it.
And people had that and theyweren't all that wrong.

(01:27:04):
It's, it matters this time.
But it but um, but in general,um, we do a very bad job about
uh, talking.
I'll give you an example.
I saw something I really loveduh, I saw it on threads which
was a woman said, a manpropositioned her to go out on a
date and he said and her, herview of him changed immediately

(01:27:24):
because he said hey, I'minterested in you.
Um, I think you're great, uh,and I'd love to take you out,
but also, if you're not into it,I'm safe and I can handle
rejection.
I know who I am, and so, ifyou're totally not cool, that
you're also like, I really wantyou to just be totally cool and
I miss.
I'm saying it not in the rightway.
What?
He said was better.

Speaker 3 (01:27:44):
But he was like up front.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
He was like if you're ready to reject me, you know,
I'm a hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (01:27:49):
Fine, I don't have, I don't have a brick behind me
that I'm going to hit you with,cause you didn't give me my
phone interesting way toapproach it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
But it made her like rethink.
Oh, like, maybe he is somethingI'm in as someone who's isn't
that interesting.
And then one of one of myfriends who's a woman was like
I'd have to see it to believe it, though.
I was like that's.
I was like, oh god, women are,so you know what I mean.
Like she's like, oh, that couldbe, that could be, I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
it's like another, it's a little, it's an extra,
like oh, I learned that this isa thing, oh God.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
And boss is nodding.
Again, I feel like the whiteperson who's?

Speaker 3 (01:28:27):
like why don't you just tell the security officer
that you brought it in with you?

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
No, that's not how that works.
Yeah, that's cute.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
Yeah, that's adorable that you think that.
Sorry for my ignorance, boss.
I thought we had made a bigadvance there.

Speaker 4 (01:28:42):
No, no, no, no.
I think that it is actually areally great thing if it isn't
co-opted by assholes in order totrick women into going on dates
.
Like.
The thing is, you really doneed to know yourself well
enough that if they reject you,you're not going to be upset and
then actually follow through onthat.

Speaker 3 (01:29:05):
Ideally, this will become the standard and then
people won't need to say it andwe won't have to not trust or
whatever else.
But yeah, that is so.

Speaker 4 (01:29:09):
Yeah, that is a brand of sad but also I think I've
mentioned it on the show beforebut the only acceptable prank
that's ever happened is whenjimmy kimmel's wife arranged for
rihanna to come to their houseand sing was brilliant.
And sing to Jimmy Kimmel in themiddle of the night, waking him
up, Because then you wake upand number one, Rihanna's in
your bedroom and number two, shehas strewn hundreds of dollars

(01:29:30):
around your bed.
So that's fine, that feels likea fine prank, but you know what
though?

Speaker 3 (01:29:35):
And seriously, because I've done, I've been
around've done, I've been aroundwitness been a part of pranks.
That would be in violation ofmy present rules and not and and
I think to fool somebody orconfuse them, I think is
different than to make theperson think they are in danger.
Like something is you you coulddie in the next two minutes is

(01:29:59):
different than.
Why is there loud music playingand a person jumping on my bed?
What's happening?

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Which one of you has a berserker yelling behind you,
by the way?
Oh, that's me.

Speaker 4 (01:30:13):
Yeah.
That's 100%, boss, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
that is the cement truck that just pulled up in
front of my apartment to repavethe sidewalk they took to took
away the other day that's good,um I I think uh a lot of people
would be bummed out if uhrihanna was in their bedroom and
they hadn't put on their goodchinos.

Speaker 4 (01:30:32):
That's funny, oh what if you're wearing your retainer
as a very adult?
Jimmy kimmel was hi is thattrue, that true.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
I don't remember that that's funny I remember her
jumping on the bed and thinking,oh my God, it was either a
retainer or a mouth guard ofsome sort.

Speaker 4 (01:30:49):
But definitely he woke up and he was like oh, oh,
like had to take it out in frontof Rihanna.
Can you imagine I would have tomove?
That is great.
That's cool.
That's super cool, that isgreat.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
That is great, that's cool, that's super cool, that
is great.
All right.
So we have the boys at thetable.
There's this playful thing hedoes not relinquish, wayne does
not relinquish the milk, anddummy Reggie dives right in with
his spoon and Wayne says nomilk.
And he says no, don't do moojuice.

(01:31:18):
I don't do moo juice and hesays hurts your tummy.
Wayne says you know, it comesfrom cow titties, right, and
then he flicks a car over out ofa little matchbox car and Wayne
says you scared of titties?
And he flicks the car back.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
That was the toy in the box.
All right, that car, I believe,was the prize in the box.

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, and he flicks it back.
Reggie slaps his hand down onit and says lactose intolerant,
motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (01:31:54):
And he says so it hurts your tummy.
I mean it's really interestingdialogue in that basically
Wayne's saying you're a littleboy, to me you are irrelevant.
Lactose intolerant is I'm a bigboy, I'm a man like that level

(01:32:14):
of I'm sure we've talked aboutat some point.
But quickly, you have firstlevel dialogue you say what you
mean.
You have second level dialoguewhere you say something other
than what you mean.
You have second level dialoguewhere you say something other
than what you mean and the otherperson doesn't know or may not
know what you mean.
And then there's third levelwhere you're saying shit and you
don't even know what you'reactually meaning by that.

(01:32:34):
And this is outstanding secondlevel.
They're having a wholeconversation.
Have you just read thetranscript?
There you go, two guys kickingit having a little breakfast
Alright, great, lactoseintolerant.
And there's a whole pissingcontest about who's the man.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
Yep, absolutely right .
She come all this way to eat myfucking cereal.
Oh, because you miss your mamaor some shit.
Or should I say my mama?

Speaker 4 (01:33:00):
That's the funniest part to me is that he's like oh,
little baby loves his mama.
Fuck you, reggie.
Last night you asked her to cutyour meat for you, like you're
not a fucking grownup, you'regoing to make fun of him because
you want, he wants Maureen tolike him.
Come on.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
So Maureen walks in right at that moment she's like
oh, that's that stupid guy,she's complaining Morning.
That stupid got, she'scomplaining Morning.
Mama Reggie hops up super fast.
I made your coffee for you theway you like.
And what does Maureen say here,boss?

Speaker 4 (01:33:29):
Excuse me, that alligator took a crap in the
front lawn again, which theagain is a lot, so go clean that
up.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
She doesn't react to the coffee.
Go clean that up please.
And as he heads out, wayne isjust sitting there.
He sees we get an insert of thekeys on the table, which Coach
noticed.
And then Coach also noticedwhat, coach?
What happens here?

Speaker 3 (01:33:56):
Reggie's stupid, but he ain't that stupid Because he
know he ain't there to eatcereal, nor really to find his
mother.
He's.
I think at this point it's veryclear and, speaking of second
level, it's very clear that it's.
It's all about that gold carand, um, yeah, I thought, I
thought, I thought it wasfascinating re-watching this.

(01:34:19):
You know you pick up certainthings Rewatching this.
What I'm picking up on is, youknow what's interesting?
You've had Maureen all thistime, yet you seem real
motherfucking nervous about whoshe's lined up with.
I didn't process that until now, as we're having this
conversation, that boy, you knowyou would think, given what led

(01:34:45):
up to this moment, wayne wouldbe the one to jump up and say,
oh I, I got you some coffeeright.
But why is it?
Why is it him?
And and I think this uh, uh, areality of their real places you
can eat all the Cocoa Puffs,you can do whatever.
One of us used to live insideof that person and will forever

(01:35:08):
be linked to them if we neversee each other again.
And Reggie's feeling that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
Reggie might be losing his mama.

Speaker 3 (01:35:17):
I think he you know what I mean as much as he's like
oh, she's mine, she's mine, youdon't have to say she's mine,
she's mine.
Like you don't have to sayshe's mine, Unless that's in
question, I show up to a partywith my wife.
I'm like, hey, this is my wife,by the way, in case anybody's
wondering.
But I will tell you that oncewe went out before our wedding
with both, you know, with thewhole wedding party not like you

(01:35:38):
know, bachelor, bachelorette,whatever party, not like you
know, bachelor, bachelorette,whatever we just all went out to
this club and this dude walkedup to ask Daphne to dance, and
loud enough that it could beheard over some music, I said
that's my wife, man and all.
I first started laughing, youknow, but I did need to say it
there because somebody wascoming and was not recognizing

(01:35:59):
that's my wife and thought maybeshe'd end up his wife and that
couldn't happen.

Speaker 2 (01:36:03):
So I think, Reggie?

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
she did not.
She did not.
Interestingly enough, Did sheend up his wife?
She did not.
Okay, good that worked out, itall worked out.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
Nice move, nice move.

Speaker 3 (01:36:13):
It all worked out.
She has referenced that momentwistfully more than once.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
So I don't know what to do with that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:24):
Yeah, no, it's tough, we'll talk about that some
other time.
He made her magic mic.
She's like you know I had onelast off ramp.
Yeah, one shot If I reallythink about it, but yeah, no
anyway.
I see Reggie is for all hischest puffed out.
He is a scared little boy rightnow, and he too has grown up
without his mommy on a certainlevel, so it's interesting to

(01:36:48):
see how it's all playing out.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
So she sends him outside to get the alligator
poop and we stay on him.
We have some voiceover here byMaureen.
We're watching him.
She says I swear to God,reggie's special needs.
We see him grab the pooperscooper and cut back.
It's a little cross-cutting.
You know when he was a kid.
It's like a standard hip levelpooper scooper with a trigger
where it opens the jaws like aclamp at the bottom and scoops

(01:37:11):
up the poop.
You know when he was a kid.
Maureen says um, we used to havea have to not take him to the
beach because all he would dowas eat sand, just scoop after
scoop, but here crunching in histeeth, um, and reggie, while
she's saying this, he takes thepooper scooper, picks up poop in
it and then doesn't know whatto do with it.
So he just throws the entirepooper scooper in somewhere god

(01:37:36):
knows where and then we'resmelling.
He's smelling his face, anyonesmelling his hands, like he did
Again, amazing acting.
It's just so good Smelling hishand.
He says that's why he's gotgold teeth.
She says nah, he just likeslooking like an asshole.

Speaker 3 (01:37:50):
Another laugh line for me.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
Yeah, she's okay.
I put some clean towels in yourroom for you.
I put a couple extra there foryour girl.
And Wayne looks down.
She notices something's wrong.
She don't need none, she's gone.
She says oh, and doesn't react.

(01:38:17):
Wayne says you ever take me tothe beach.
And this is a great reactionhere.
I don't know if you guys pickedup on this.
She's like oh.

Speaker 3 (01:38:27):
And she keeps it.
Reminded me of Nate Wanting tobe a big dog.
Right, yeah, right, yes, likeit's so outside Like she's like
you must be kidding, yeah, andthen realizes he's not and
that's extra awkward now yeah,moving on.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
He says what are you making, uh?
And she says, um, oh, uh, youknow, I got my own candle
business and I sell them at swapmeets.
Um, and I got erotic andnon-erotic scents they're the
same, they just get differentnames um, and he says I like
this one.
She says, yeah.
He says it smells like a tree.

(01:39:05):
She says, yeah, this is thewoodsy one, I love it.
You got very good taste.
And he smiles uh, you knowwhen's the last time you got a
compliment from his mom?
um, so he's like, uh, there,this entire interaction um Mark
McKenna, who plays Wayne, isincredibly sweet.

(01:39:26):
Boyish looks at his mommy.
You know, very asynchronouswith his age.
The way he's looking at her isthe way a five-year-old would
look at his mom.

Speaker 3 (01:39:39):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:39:39):
Right, that's not how , how he, you know, he's really
sort of I'm not gonna sayregressing, but he's he's
returning to an, to an earlierdevelopmental phase with regard
to, like her, her complimentsand things like that I know
we've brought it up before we.

Speaker 3 (01:39:57):
Oh I'm sorry, boss, boss, I was just going to say, I
think, continuing to rememberthat when we experience a trauma
psychologically without doingthe work, psychologically, a
piece of us stays there,no-transcript, and I think it

(01:40:40):
matters a lot.
I also think it's fascinating.
There's a whole otherconversation.
Who's it?
Who's in our prisons is aquestion for me that comes out
of this scene.
Because she says special needs,like, kind of like how for a
while people were using whatI'll refer to as the r word.
You know people said that andthen special became this like

(01:41:01):
odd.
Somehow you've now managed toturn this into the same kind of
loaded word that the r-word usedto be.
So now we say special and itstill has the same weight.
And and she to me, she doesn'tsay special needs like she's
about to pull out his iep, shesays special needs like you know
that boy ain't right in thehead, but they have like a more

(01:41:22):
dressed up way to say it now.
But I say all that to say ifyour child is chewing sand at
the beach, because of thesensory experience of the
chewing and hearing that crunch,you might want to have them
evaluated.
There is probably some shitgoing on and, as much as we're
all like Reggie's an idiot,reggie's this, reggie's that,
reggie's whatever, maybe Reggiehasn't gotten the care that he

(01:41:46):
required all this time, becauseeating sand at the beach to hear
the crunch, this is not in thenormal range of behavior.
Like come on.

Speaker 4 (01:41:57):
It's a little alarming.
It should be addressed.
I was going to say a couple ofthings, the first of which is
that, yes, wayne's face here isa little more childlike than
we've seen him be.
I actually wish that we livedin a society where more 16 year
old boys could look at their momthis way and that didn't seem

(01:42:18):
weird or immature.
Of course I would prefer that Iactually like as much as I seem
like, um, uh, a hard ass whohates anything with joy.
I do actually think that thatwould be better for everybody
involved if we could get there.
Um, I'd also like to mentionthat, uh, the boyfriend who I
think I've mentioned before,he's never been officially

(01:42:40):
diagnosed, but based on a lot ofstuff that both he and I know
we we're both like oh so you're,you are on the autism spectrum
somewhere, right, like you gotyou got that shit.
Like you don't want toself-diagnose, but definitely
right.
Um, he's also extremely smart,which means that when he was in
second grade and what, forwhatever reason, the tracking in

(01:43:00):
his school, like in terms ofhigh achieving and then regular
or or additional needs, whateverthat was, for some reason they
called both the higher and lowerlevels special reading or
special math, and so that did uhlead to him at different points

(01:43:20):
telling people oh well, I'm inspecial math.
And the adults going now youindividually, are you trying to
tell me you're very smart orthat you, honey, might need some
extra time?
Which one are you trying totell me here?
And he was like no, I'm in thesmart class, god damn it, but
yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:43:42):
And what if both?
That's a whole otherconversation.
What if you're?
Very smart and you need moretime it was fucking both.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:43:48):
Now it turns out that the adults are reading it right
because they're like oh well,you seem very smart, but also
you're a little bit weird.

Speaker 2 (01:43:56):
People are.
I like that.
There's a healthy understandingabout that, about the diagnoses
or whatever.
When I was in Los Angeles Isaid to this group of people I
said you know, virtuallyeverybody I know in one way or
another is either on thespectrum or adjacent in some
fashion, and it's okay and it'sfine.

(01:44:17):
I don't know why what theobsession is with being what
they call historicallyneurotypical.
But now that world is changingand what word is taking
predominance is the termholistic, which is more
representative of not being,rather than have the word
typicality in there.

(01:44:38):
You say, oh, you'reneurotypical and then you're
neurodivergent.
Some people would now say, oh,you're autistic and you're
holisticotypical, and thenyou're neurodivergent.
Some people would now say, oh,you're autistic and you're
holistic, and it has less of ahidden meaning.
That said, uh, the utes oftoday, uh, all the utes in the
in gen z um.
Uh, there is now a trend wherethe term autistic is now like

(01:45:00):
becoming a slur.
Yeah, no which is, which issuper fun, yeah, no, for real.
And coach is like wait, what?
And it's like, yeah, like oh,we got to go there's.
Yeah, we went there as a bunchof autistics and whatever.
That just means.
That doesn't mean kids withautism, that means what other
other really all right I'mtotally old man in y'all right

(01:45:21):
now because I haven't.

Speaker 3 (01:45:22):
I'm like wait what?
Yeah, so interesting because Ialways thought yeah, this is
this I felt like this generation, like part of the.
This generation in quotes ofalpha and you know, even z, is
that they were more aware andmore dialed in with all that
kind of stuff.
So I'm curious, generally theyare what drove this?

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
Yeah, I'm curious, a lot of kids who have parents who
have raised them 66 millionpeople who, anyway, I'm saying
there's plenty of people in thiscountry who have chosen an
alternative methodology.
I got you Okay, but I would say, primarily, knowing is better
than not knowing.

(01:46:05):
If you don't, if you're aperson out there listening to
this and you've always wonderedabout things like this, there's
something called a neuropsychevaluation, which is, I think,
so much fun.
Also, you can get genetictesting from your doctors now,
and genetic testing is fantastic.
All of these tests make theinvisible visible, and if you've

(01:46:27):
been swimming in jello yourwhole life and not knowing it,
you can just take something.
And I'm not an advocate of pillsor something.
I'll give you an example.
In my case, my body does notprocess folate, and folate is
just a thing.
It's's like genetically I can't.
It's like folic acid, that typeof thing fully.

(01:46:48):
It's an amino acid, uh, needfor cellular function, and my,
my body does not naturally.
Uh, other people can ingestfood, extract the folate and
then you're good to go.
My body does not do it.
And so we looked at my children.
We found out oh, they don't doit yet.
Guess what we do?
We take little folatesupplements, good to go.
Yeah, we take folate and andguess what it's like mood

(01:47:11):
changing.
It's like really a big deallike, and so when people say I
don't want to be on pills, Idon't want to do.
Yeah, well, you're talking aboutbrain chemistry same reason
yeah, it's just brain chemistryand our cellular, you know
health.
And so I had a friend when Iwas just out in Los Angeles.
He says you know, you know, mywife wants to run my daughter

(01:47:32):
through all these tests and yeah, you know, she was delayed on
reading and yeah, she was thisand yeah, she was that.
You know and you know.
But it's just like I don't wantmy kid to be one of those kids
on all the pills and everything.
And I said, huh, yeah, okay, Iget it.
I was like, listen, I used tobe one of those.

(01:47:53):
I think you, I think it's verycommon to come at these types of
things and say, man, I don'twant like a mirror, I don't want
my big farmer to get ahold ofmy kit, Like I really get all
that stuff.
But in general I say I alwaysadvocate for a neuropsych
evaluation.
Go in, do the test.
They tell you it's amazing.
They say, oh, you have thistype of memory, you have this
type of processing, you havethis type of like uh, processing
speed, you can, you can.

(01:48:15):
And you say what does it looklike?
What does a neuropsych evalthey?
They have you do like a generalversion of a, what used to be
called a whisk test.
They do um, they'll say they'lltell you five words.
They'll say, oh, cat screen,whatever, you know whatever.
And then they'll they'll say,okay, say them backwards.
And you say back, then they'lltell you okay, how many of those
words do you remember?
An hour and a half later,they'll say, like I remember any

(01:48:36):
of those words and they knowand can track all this stuff.
And and then they give you thisamazing report that says do you
realize you don't processauditorily or something.
And you're like, wait, I don't,it's just illuminating and
listen.
If you're a perfect person, ifyou're like Perseus listening to
this podcast, okay, this is notfor you.
If you're slaying mythicalbeasts, yeah, no, you don't need

(01:49:01):
that.
But in general, most peopledon't have a sense of their
psychological profile, theirgenetic profile, and then, in
not prioritizing that forthemselves, they don't
prioritize that for theirchildren and all it does is make
the invisible visible and givesyou options.
You say, okay, I can choose notto address this, but at least

(01:49:22):
you know that it is.

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
Now there are people and I heard you say it, but I
don't want anyone to feel thatit was glossed over there are
people who feel that there'salso, and there can be, some
racial and gender and all thethings that exist everywhere
else in our world that comesinto this, and all the things
that exist everywhere else inour world that comes into this,
that sometimes, when people arediagnosed, it does essentially

(01:49:48):
become labeling, so it's notwhat you're describing and it's
not descriptive.
It's a way of categorizingpeople and I think I don't think
that should happen.
I don't think that's a reasonto not do the testing.
I do think it's a reason for usto look at how the result is
being used and how people arebeing treated based on those
results.
But I will say that there was arelief for me when somebody

(01:50:15):
said to me oh yeah, you got all.
I mean, it was so funny.
We got to the end of myevaluation and I was, and I got
the sense that the person whodid my evaluation was like well,
I can look all this shit over,but you got all the
motherfucking ad.
Like it wasn't, like oh, carrythe one.
It was like oh no, yeah, yeah,you got it and it has been

(01:50:39):
life-changing and I share, evento the point where this morning
I've been thinking about somestuff about how I'm working and
what I need to get done, andthen I was able to share with
boss and coach hey, I still wantto record, but I feel like we
got to change the schedulebecause I'm not getting shit
done otherwise that I need to begetting done because right.

(01:50:59):
But also I understand that Iexhaust mentally.
I wouldn't have thought aboutthat the same way if I didn't
have this information or,frankly, just now, that I
private messaged them.
Oh, by the way, I don't knowwhere I put my pill box, but I'm
supposed to be taking mymedicine.
So if I seem a little extrawilling to go down the rabbit

(01:51:20):
holes today, that's that iscorrect, because I don't have I
don't have my guardrails inplace quite yet.
So, anyway, I think there is somuch value in it, but the value
exists mostly if we can geteveryone to agree to use this
stuff appropriately.
So whoever's running aroundgoing oh, we went there, but

(01:51:40):
there are a bunch of autisticsthere Not only does it strike me
as unkind, but it's also aproblem because it makes it more
likely that your friend coachsays you know what, let's not do
the thing, because if they saythat our child is autistic and
that becomes a label on ourchild, then our child's going to
be one of those autistics and Ithink that's the danger.

(01:52:03):
It's like when people say ADHDI saw I actually turned it off.
I watch all this stuff withfootball coaches because I'm
like processing all thisinformation and getting our
program together.
And one guy was like oh yeah,all the kids now have ADHD and
he was talking about who didn'tremember like their assignment
on the football field and thelevel of rage I felt at a person
I'd never met before, because Iwas like you're being an

(01:52:29):
asshole.
There's a room full of peoplethere, which means there are
probably people in that room whoare neurodivergent, and why
would any kid share theirdiagnosis if they knew that?
it's a punchline when thecoaches get together, it's just
anyway.
I could go on and I have, but Ithink it's really important

(01:52:52):
that we learn these things.
When people say, socrates, knowthyself, I think we are better
and better able to knowourselves, and it's what we do
with that.
That's the real issue, cause Ican tell you I'm a better
husband, father, friend, brotherall the things since I found

(01:53:18):
out about my ADHD.

Speaker 4 (01:53:18):
Yeah, I, um, I like everything that you just said so
much, including the idea thatwe will actually damage people
by not addressing theirunderlying problems rather than
label them as having a problemto begin with.
That's a huge fuck-up.
That's an incredibly hugefuck-up.
We shouldn't be doing that.
I also I know that in a episodemaybe months ago now I time
doesn't matter anymore we talkedabout the words moron, idiot,

(01:53:40):
like those types of things, andthe way that at one point, those
were diagnostic terms and thatwas supposed to indicate the
level of developmental delay orwhatever else.
Also, developmental delay thenbecame this like sort of slur
and the r word became the slur,and so I think that humans do
have a tendency to take whateverword it is that we are supposed
to be using to describe a veryspecific condition or very

(01:54:03):
specific malady and then applythat to a bunch of people in a
way that it shouldn't apply.
That that sucks, thatabsolutely sucks.
At the same time, I think thatwe need to allow people to have
language to say like that thingyou're doing is stupid yeah, I'm
not saying you're stupid I'mnot saying that like you're a

(01:54:26):
bad person, but like hey you're.
You just wandered into themiddle of the street without
looking both ways.
That was a stupid thing to do.
Don't don't do that anymore.
And so I want to make sure that, like, we keep both of those
things I am.
I know that we've talked aboutmitch hedberg on the show before
because he's fucking hilarious.
I just the other day left myphone in my car, went to the
store and then, of course, theescalator was out of order and

(01:54:48):
I'm like why don't I have apicture of the convenience of
stairs right now?
Fuck me, goddammit.
But what I was thinking aboutis he was talking about how
alcoholism is a disease, butit's one that people get mad at
you for having mitch.
You're an alcoholic mitch.
You have lupus.
Only one of those is said in anangry way and he is right, he

(01:55:11):
was right, he's hilarious.
He's very funny.
Um, I don't want to ignore thefact that being an alcoholic
does create problems.
There is this thing where we'relike if you're an alcoholic,
you're a bad person.
No, that's not true.
But if that being an alcoholicdoes create problems, there is
this thing where we're like ifyou're an alcoholic, you're a
bad person.
No, that's not true, but ifyou're an alcoholic, you're
probably creating issues for thepeople around you, because
otherwise we wouldn't labelwhat's going on with you as

(01:55:31):
being an alcoholic.
Like.
I want to be able to addressthe fact that those kids
probably shouldn't have saidlike there are a bunch of
autistics there.
If what they were saying wasthere were people with whom we
had difficulty having aconversation.
I want to be able toacknowledge that, like in the
same way that I don't think myboyfriend is a bad person in any

(01:55:53):
way, shape or form for havingautistic tendencies.
But that means when I walk intohis house and there is uh, he
just got um, a medical thing totrack his sleeping, because he's
been having trouble sleeping.
And I said what's this, what'sall this about?
And he said heart monitor, okay, and I was like okay, I'm gonna

(01:56:14):
need you to elaborate on that alittle bit, because that
doesn't give me any of theinformation that I need.

Speaker 3 (01:56:20):
I love you like.
Oh, that's an r1957.
What do you want for lunch?

Speaker 4 (01:56:24):
hold on, hold on yeah , I was like hey, buddy, hey,
but you have to know that Imeant more than what is this
like?
What's happening with it?
What's going on?
Give me more.
So I need to adjust and heneeds to adjust.
But both of us have torecognize that, because of the
way his brain works, that's whathe's going to say to me and
that sometimes is going to be aproblem for me and sometimes a

(01:56:45):
problem for him, and we shouldboth be able to work on that.

Speaker 3 (01:56:50):
I solved your issue around stupid things being said
and done and how to describethem during my stand-up days and
at the time one Sarah Palin wasin the news and I decided it's
right.
It's true, we shouldn't use theR word, that's true, and I

(01:57:12):
think when we come acrosssomething really stupid, we
should call it Sarah Palin,because Sarah.
Palin can be pretty fuckingSarah Palin sometimes and it
held up.
Feel free to use it.
That is my contribution to theEnglish language.

Speaker 2 (01:57:28):
So they're sitting at the table here.
I told Calvin I need more spacefor my candles or whatever like
a workspace.
He said, oh no, I need thatextra bedroom for my man cave.
Boo.
She says pfft, he got a flatscreen TV last year, still
sitting on the floor man cave,please Right, more like a
goddamn junk cage.
And so she lights a candle forWayne and fans the air and he

(01:57:57):
sniffs it Like I don't thinkWayne gave a shit about candles
before this moment.
But he's been a supportive kid.
You know, when you were alittle baby you couldn't, you
wouldn't go to sleep unless Ilit a candle in your room for
you.
He says really, and she's, yeah, I mean he's hearing about
himself as a little baby and shewas there as a little baby in

(01:58:18):
that image and she would likecandles for him to help him
sleep because she was someone atthat time who cared about his
sleep.
So all of those uh bring up avery, uh sweet smile from him.

Speaker 3 (01:58:30):
And she smiles I'd like to highlight that the
surveillance monitor is betweenthem in this shot.
I actually tried to see if Icould make it a little bigger to
see what we're actually seeingthere.
But it feels very intentional.
I mean it is centered betweenthem.

Speaker 2 (01:58:50):
Yeah, there's several screens in this room.

Speaker 3 (01:58:52):
There's four.
Yeah, there's at least fourcameras here that we're seeing
Well behind Wayne there's alsoanother monitor.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
Another monitor, yeah , and up top, I know in, yeah,
there's, there's at least fourcameras here that we're seeing.
Behind Wayne there's alsoanother monitor.
Another monitor, yeah, and uptop, I know in the corner there
was another one.
So that's like that's a lot ofcameras, 12 cameras on this
property anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:59:06):
So, yeah, so there's something going on I did want to
highlight.
And and Maureen talks about,about him not smelling good.
And then they have to goshopping.
She's got this now with thesmell, the alligator shit coming
in she has.
She consistently tries.

(01:59:28):
A friend of mine used to say youcan pour sugar on shit that
ain't gonna make it smell nosweeter.
And to me Maureen pours sugaron the shit of her life and I
really mean it like that, likeI'm not trying to be whatever,
but like she is constantlytrying to make something look a
little prettier, seem a littlenicer, smell a little better.

(01:59:51):
She goes, she's trying toimprove herself.
Like I think in her version,the minute she said she was
doing these candles, I was like,right, the pottery class the
candles.
Like she's trying to like takewhatever is here, like mold it
into some sort of decent lifeshe could feel good about.
Um, so anyway that that thatstood out to me as, whatever her

(02:00:17):
story is up to this point, shejust she just wants shit to be
kind of nice for a minute, kindof things.
Just that's the vibe I get frommaureen.
Can we just have peace?

Speaker 2 (02:00:28):
yeah, yeah, for sure, um and uh, yeah, I mean, who
knows, sometimes when people youknow you doesn't know what
misophonia is.
It's a condition where you havelike a real.
Some people get reallyirritated by certain sounds.
A lot of people have repetitivesounds, like a kid bouncing a

(02:00:51):
basketball nearby or someoneclicking a pen cap over and over
.
I think like it'll make peoplefucking crazy.
It's a thing, and it's manythings are a thing if you do the
work and you realize, uh, butmaybe there's a smell version of
misophonia.

Speaker 3 (02:01:05):
I don't know we should probably look it up, but
oh, I'm sure there is.

Speaker 2 (02:01:07):
Yeah where it's like you have a much more intense
reaction to, uh, to smells, thanother people.
Um, but so you know she, uh,she says you know she, she says
you know it's going to soundlike you know it's going to
sound like some kind of I don'tknow excuse or something.
But I think turns, I thinkthings turned out the way they
were supposed to.
With you, you know, with yourfather and me coming here, it's

(02:01:31):
like your daddy can be some kindof hellion, just the booze and
the fighting.
It's so many neighbors wouldjust like up and leave.
Because, you know, just afterliving near the guy too long,
you know, I kid you not morethan once leaving furniture and
TVs behind just to get away fromthe son of a bitch quicker.
I mean, he had the honor thing.

(02:01:53):
You know, the code or whatever.
Just right and wrong.
Honor thing, the code orwhatever, Just right and wrong.
Everything, no grays, no middle, Everything's just black and
white.
I need all these ideas abouthow they should live and how I
should be and what I could beand what I should be.
Yeah, a lot of rules Hard tolive with.

(02:02:15):
Hard to live with.

Speaker 3 (02:02:18):
Hard to live with.
Again, dialogue, I don't know.
Maybe you know, maybe I'm justsmelling the end here and
wanting to appreciate Wayne.
She said so much.
She said so much and she neverquite said anything.
Like she never said there wasthis one time the guy you know,

(02:02:41):
he went next door and he bashedin the guy's window or he told
the lady go fuck herself.
She didn't tell us any of thestory but or what was going on
inside the house, like if that'show he was dealing with the
neighbors.
She just never fully says allof it and I feel like that says
so much whether she's still kindof a little scared of him even

(02:03:04):
if he's dead yeah, it doesn'twant to like whatever or if it's
just she's loved him so muchand saw he was broken but just
couldn't stay there and get cutby the broken pieces.
I don't know what it is, butthere's she, she dances around
what sounds like it was a veryscary and and traumatic,

(02:03:26):
traumatic experience.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:03:30):
Yes, and, and she and I think they have this little
quiet moment together, and Ithink she does feel like she
owes him some sort ofexplanation, and so this is as
close as she's going to get.
Boss go ahead well.

Speaker 4 (02:03:41):
So I was actually going to say that I don't know
if I saw it as traumatic andscary as I think both of you do,
um, mostly because of her nextline, which is when she said
that one of the things she saidwas all of his ideas about how
people should act and who Ishould be and who I could be.

Speaker 2 (02:04:05):
And now she said, yeah, what I could be and what I
should be, what I could be andwhat I should be.

Speaker 4 (02:04:09):
And then right after that, the next line is you know,
you don't got to treat someonelike shit.
And I the captions say and makethem feel bad.
I'm pretty sure that the lineis to make them feel bad.
I'm pretty sure that what shesays is you don't got to treat
someone like shit to make themfeel bad and so to for.
To me that revealed waynesenior wasn't necessarily

(02:04:31):
abusing her, even though heseemed violent, or even though
he was violent I shouldn't say,see, even though he was violent
and even though he was a pain inthe ass to the neighbors.
I don't think that she feltthat Wayne abused her, but he
had rules about how people wouldact and I think that she felt
like she wasn't living up tothose and that's why she felt
like shit.

Speaker 3 (02:04:51):
That's really interesting, and I also heard
too or that's the message I gotfrom the line at least I didn't
quite put it together the wayyou did and that's fascinating
actually you know you don'tgotta treat someone like shit
and make them feel bad oh, itmight be Ant but I got the

(02:05:13):
message you just described,which is interesting because
when you said I was like yeah,that's what I felt, that's what
I heard, but I didn't hear youjust described, which is
interesting, because when yousaid it I was like, yeah, that's
what I felt, that's what Iheard, but I didn't hear it.

Speaker 4 (02:05:20):
I felt it, and you know I what's the word I'm
looking for here Cross-examined.
Maybe it wasn't that it wasadversarial, but definitely
Castleton, I know that I gaveyou some shit in the beginning
of the show where I was like, ohwell, you see people this way
and so then you see theiractions this way, and one of the
things that I like to be really, really careful about is that

(02:05:43):
Maureen reminds me a lot of mymom Not the candles, because
Kathy's not sure.

Speaker 2 (02:05:48):
So we change it once we know the person.
No, no no.
Thank you everybody, thanks forlistening today.
God, I wish we had more time.

Speaker 3 (02:05:57):
I think we should try to win the episode.
I mean, that's not going tohappen, it'll never happen.

Speaker 2 (02:06:02):
Never happen.

Speaker 4 (02:06:04):
So that's why I try to focus so closely on her
actions, on Maureen's actions.
On her words and not this kindof like, whatever resentment I
might have had with my mom,Because what I actually do pick
up from Maureen's character isthat she is extremely sensitive.
She comes across as being sortof vulgar in body and she's like

(02:06:24):
, oh, if he's not touching mytits, like like she'll make the
joke.
But also she seems extremelysensitive, Like things bother
her a lot.
You were talking about thenoises.
We have a test for Kathy'sChristmas presents where I need
to feel the material to makesure that it doesn't have
cooties, because if it hascooties, kathy can't touch it

(02:06:46):
yeah, those are.

Speaker 2 (02:06:47):
Those are like lit clinicals they're called sensory
issues.

Speaker 3 (02:06:50):
That's what they call that sensory.
You've talked about that before.

Speaker 2 (02:06:52):
Yeah and and um.

Speaker 4 (02:06:54):
There's a term for that also um, oh god it's like
just a tactile sort of thing,yeah, but sensory issues is the?
Is the?

Speaker 2 (02:07:00):
overall, I actually get the word, but it's a lot of
kids have this, and so it's likewhen kids have a seam in their
socks or something like that oneof my kids shirts.
I don't, yeah, exactly the tagson shirts are like a huge color
.

Speaker 4 (02:07:13):
I still rip the tags off my shirts.
I had to.
I mean, that's the thing Ican't.

Speaker 2 (02:07:16):
What's the name of it ?
Oh god, okay, yeah, keep going,boss.
I'm gonna look it up while wesit.

Speaker 4 (02:07:20):
I made kathy cut the um feet off of the footie
pajamas.
I was like I don't know whatthe fuck you people are doing
with this shit.
My feet are sweating.
This is this is tortureinteresting you got to cut this
shit off.
So there is a part of what I amseeing in Maureen's character
is she was sensitive to Waynesenior's criticism.

(02:07:41):
She felt like she wasn't livingup.
She didn't really know what shewas doing.
She felt overwhelmed, like Idon't think that Wayne senior
was, by any stretch of theimagination, a good partner.
Like.
It seems like, if anything, hewas a pretty decent dad to wayne
in a lot of ways, but Iwouldn't give him a lot more

(02:08:01):
than that.
I am not unsympathetic to whatmaureen was going through.
I sort of understand whereshe's coming from.
I just didn't see her as beinglike a battered wife in the way
that maybe we thought couldhappen.
In the last episode we saidlike yeah is there a possibility
that Wayne beat Maureen?
I don't think that Wayne Sr'scode, the one that he passed

(02:08:22):
along to Wayne, would allow forhim to do this.
You know what?

Speaker 3 (02:08:24):
That's a really interesting and valid point.
Yeah, I think you're right thatif and she even speaks to the
code, and I think she wouldspeak to his code differently if
it's like, oh, mr code, butthen he would come beat the shit
out of like I think you're ontosomething there that's a really
interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:08:43):
I want to just gently and kindly and with a lot of
love, push back against thatbecause, um, so fucking what?
If he didn't lay hand on her?
She could have been.
She could have been.
You know how many tears offucking terror and misery people
can live in with a husband whodoesn't beat on them physically.
You know what I mean.
Like yeah, yeah like she couldhave been anywhere on that

(02:09:06):
spectrum and it seems prettyclear to me that like it was
traumatic.
Yeah, boy, it's a big reliefthat he didn't actually beat her
, okay wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 3 (02:09:15):
But no, no, no, wait, hold on a sec, she ran from him
.

Speaker 2 (02:09:19):
She ran away from him to escape him.
We're getting her version of ithere.
We don't have him.
Wayne Sr's not here to refuteit or be like oh, give me a
fucking break, we don't havethat version.
We have her version from herown mouth, where it was really
hard and she felt oppressed insome way and it was something
that she, you see, that sheescaped from in her mind.

Speaker 4 (02:09:41):
But she didn't run away from Wayne Sr.
She ran away from her family,like she didn't take the kids
and flee.
She had to leave the situation.
The situation included her kids, and this is in the same way
that she said that Wayne grabbeda hammer and went outside and

(02:10:01):
busted his face open Like therewas.
She was unable to exist in thissituation.
Regardless of it, I think thatwe're getting a little bit
confused.

Speaker 2 (02:10:13):
We're talking about two separate issues.
Her abandoning her child is onething.
Confused, we're talking abouttwo separate issues.
Her abandoning her child is onething.
Her abandon her, saving herselffrom a uh relationship that she
can't uh stand is a totallydifferent thing.
And, yes, she, the the leavingthe relationship was also met
with the fact that, uh, I'msaying somehow, I think, in her

(02:10:34):
mind listen, this isn't in thescript, but I'm like if she had
tried to take Wayne, she wasgoing to die, little Wayne.
Wait, wait, wait wait, you thinkthat, wayne.

Speaker 4 (02:10:43):
Sr would have killed her if she had taken her kids.

Speaker 2 (02:10:45):
It seemed like that to me, Like it seemed like she
could not have taken littleWayne Could not have.
See, there's a lot that wouldhave been a rule that he could
not break.
Fine, you want to leave me, butyou don't take my kid.

Speaker 3 (02:10:55):
I don't think we have any indication of that.

Speaker 4 (02:11:00):
The small amount of what we saw with Wayne Sr and
what we know about what hetaught Wayne Jr.
That does not seem fitting inmy understanding of his code
whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (02:11:12):
Wow, I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible, but
I wouldn't say I, I, I agree, Ican, it's.

Speaker 3 (02:11:22):
It's like can we imagine it's not the same thing?
But I wish, like could weimagine wayne hauling off and
belting dell because she saidsomething insulting to his
mother and belting Del becauseshe said something insulting to
his mother?
Like I can't, yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:11:39):
I cannot.

Speaker 3 (02:11:41):
I can see a lot of shit.
I can see him being mad.
I can see him saying somethingthat's uncons but like do I the
code seems so wired in.
I'm kind of with Boss on that,like- yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:11:53):
And yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:11:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:11:56):
I will fully admit that I-.

Speaker 2 (02:11:58):
Don't listen to women .
Whatever we do, let's make surewait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 4 (02:12:03):
But she never said that he would kill her.
You were.
No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (02:12:06):
She never said it, but she said we hear her say it
was it was.
He had all these rules.
It was hard to live with.
Yeah, uh, the boozing and thefighting.
Your daddy gave me some kind ofhellion.
People in the neighborhoodwould just up and leave after
living near the guy too long andshe's his wife More than once
leaving furniture to get awayfrom the son of a bitch quicker.

(02:12:27):
He had the honor thing no grays, no middle, everything's black
and white.
And he had all these ideas,again similar to how we've taken
umbrage with organized religion.
He had all these ideas abouthow they should live, yes, and
how I should be and what I couldbe and what I should be.
A lot of rules Hard to livewith.

(02:12:49):
You don't got to treat withsomeone like shit and make them
feel bad.
Feel bad.
There's no doubt in my mindthat, whether he laid a finger
on her or not, but that she wasin a brutal amount of trauma and
and fear and and anxiety.
She she was, sounds like shewas completely shut down.

Speaker 3 (02:13:09):
I think I think that can be, I think that could be
true, but I guess I'll speak tothe way you just presented that
idea, you're whether or not helaid a hand on her.
That is a big fuckingdistinction for me.

Speaker 2 (02:13:22):
Yeah, I know, but it's not the only distinction.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no, no, no, no no no, no,
like big enough that you're like.

Speaker 3 (02:13:33):
But whether or not like, it's to me that's like I
was angry with somebody or Ishot somebody.
They were scared because theythought I was going to finish
killing them, because theythought that my yelling was
dangerous you're advocating myside of this.
No, no, no you are because I'msaying no that's a huge thing.

Speaker 2 (02:13:51):
That's a non-starter, but if the if it's not, that
doesn't diminish any everything,but it does but it's a
different thing.

Speaker 3 (02:13:59):
I don't diminish, because I think that means more,
less, and I think we can bringin psychologists for that, but I
will stand by that.
I'm having a totally differentconversation with wayne or any
other man about whether thepeople in his life found him
frightening because of hisbehavior or whatnot, or whether

(02:14:21):
he was physically battering andassaulting the people who live
in his home, like I think thathas.
Like I think we have to createa difference there.
And it's funny because I had aconversation with somebody not
well, well, it's a social mediaconversation, but where people

(02:14:41):
after um, the Superbowl forthose unfamiliar who don't pay
attention to such things there'sa very famous and particularly
popular now because he uh, isdating Taylor Swift football
player named Travis Kelsey andduring the Superbowl he flipped
his lid over the details of thegame which aren't relevant to
what I'm about to speak to, andhe started yelling at his coach

(02:15:04):
who's in his 60s.
The coach is in his 60s, bigdude in his 60s, been a coach
for years and he yelled at hiscoach.
He ended up bumping into hiscoach as he was yelling at his
coach.
It was a bad look Like helooked like a raving lunatic and
I don't think anyone disagreeswith that, including him.

(02:15:25):
And someone made the point andit really bothered me because I
was seeing it repeatedly thatTaylor Swift should leave him
because if that's the way hebehaves like, imagine what he'll
do to her.
And I was like nope, time out,time the fuck out.
We are not going to accuse thisman of and, frankly, not even

(02:15:49):
bother accusing him.
Just decide this man is afucking wife beater because he
yelled at his coach during theSuper Bowl.
We have to be able to have amore nuanced conversation if we
are going to take, for example,domestic violence seriously.

(02:16:12):
A call that says I just gotpunched in the face and I just
got yelled at can't be the samecall.
It doesn't mean that the I justgot yelled at call should be
ignored or it's no big deal, butit has to be a difference.

Speaker 2 (02:16:28):
It is a difference.
It sounds like you'redownplaying the non-physical
amount of domestic violencethat's out there, or the threat
and terror of it all.

(02:16:49):
There are millions of womenbeing held hostage by their
husbands right now and the guyshave never laid a finger on them
in that way.
But there is violence in therelationship and abuse is not
just limited to physical abuse.
It's not.
That's not what I said.

Speaker 3 (02:17:05):
I didn't say it's limited.

Speaker 2 (02:17:06):
I just I think I don't want to be downplaying.

Speaker 3 (02:17:08):
I'm just saying, having been in situations where
I was scared and having been insituations where I was
physically assaulted, one feltone way and one felt another way
and there's a differencebetween those feelings.
I'm not saying that you can'tbe terrorized, I'm not.
That's what terror is, right.
You blow up a building 100miles from here and I'm scared
over here, like I get.
That that's what terror is, butI just, I don't know, maybe I'm

(02:17:32):
off base, I'm curious what bossthinks.
But I think it's incredibly,it's to me, it's almost taking
the issue.
It's not almost for me, it'staking the issue more seriously,
not to just throw it all in abig old bucket of like you
create discomfort and to saywait a minute, there's, there's

(02:17:54):
there's hitting there'sgaslighting, there's this, and
being clear about these aredifferent things.
none of them are good, but wecan't just call them all the
same thing, it is all abuse.

Speaker 2 (02:18:09):
It is all abuse.
You're right that the highesttier is the physical tier, but I
just want to make sure we'renot downplaying anything south
of that.
Any other step of it is stilltrauma and is still anxiety and
still terror for the personinvolved and it's serious.

(02:18:30):
So I guess we're not sayingit's, I'm not, I don't know.
We're probably saying the samething, but if you have the whole
pie chart and half of it ispeople who are not being abused
at all, right, once you're onthe side where people are being
abused, it's serious, and it'sserious whether they're being

(02:18:53):
hit or not being hit.
That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (02:18:55):
Oh yeah, I'm not saying it's not.
Well, let me ask a question.
Does it to either of youactually?
Does it feel to you when I saywhoa, whoa, whoa, we can't put
this all in one bucket?
Does it seem like?
Does it come across as cause?
It's actually maybe informative?

Speaker 4 (02:19:16):
for me, is like not important because I'm saying
it's different yeah, so I, oddlyenough, am now in the position
of being in the middle of bothof you guys I think I understand
what both of you are saying.
I would definitely agree thatemotional, mental, verbal forms

(02:19:38):
of abuse are remedied in adifferent way than physical
abuse, and that is not to saythat one of them is less
significant or less severe.
It is just to say that they aredealt with in different ways,
because once somebody hits you,they are more likely to kill you
.
I'm not saying that they won'tkill you if they've only

(02:20:00):
threatened you or only said youcan't have your baby cat or
anything else.
I'm not saying that those peopleare unlikely to murder their
partner.
I'm saying that once they starthitting you, there is a the
chance of you being murdered bythat person have just shot up I
don't want to say astronomically, but it's pretty fucking hard,
Like if he chokes you he willkill you.

(02:20:22):
That's a fact, Like that's whatstatistics say.
So I understand this.
You know how we respond to.
Each one of those needs to bedifferent, because they require
because, they are differentsituations and because we want
to make sure that people who arein abusive situations get out
as quickly and as safely aspossible, so sort of addressing

(02:20:44):
that.
I don't think one is better orworse or more significant or
more severe or anything else.
I will say I don't know if Idon't know if the issue with

(02:21:06):
Maureen is that she wasterrified for her life and she
felt like Wayne Sr was going todestroy her.
What I kept thinking to myselfis she wasn't able to tolerate
the situation, and not beingable to tolerate something is
something that my siblings and Ihave very much associated with
our mom.
She can't tolerate it, whateverit is.
She can't tolerate this.
Like there are some things whereit she used to tell us, like

(02:21:27):
when she, when she was cookingon holidays, like sometimes we'd
all be in the kitchen and liketalking or around, and she'd say
everybody get out of thekitchen.
I can't tolerate it.
Like there wasn't anything badin that situation, we weren't
breaking shit, it's just that wewere around and she couldn't
tolerate it.
Like it was this level ofsensitivity, and so there's a

(02:21:50):
part of me that wonders how muchof what Maureen was
experiencing was that herhusband was a fucking hothead
who would beat people up and hadrules about how she should be
acting and what she should bedoing, and that's not okay.
Like by the way, don't haverules for your partner.
You could say I expect mypartner to do these things, but
you can't have rules about whothey are, yeah, not a
dictatorship like that.
Yeah, no that's not, absolutelynot okay, but I think a lot of

(02:22:13):
this was what Maureen was ableto tolerate, and what she
couldn't tolerate was living inthat house with Wayne Sr and her
two kids and do things the waythat she felt she was being
required.
You don't got to treat someonelike shit and make them feel bad
.

Speaker 2 (02:22:39):
Like Calvin.
This is a terrible way to endthis and she's awful at this,
but she is trying to give Waynesome explanation.
She says like Calvin, he can belike yeah, he can be like
whatever, but he lets me be whoI want to be, do what I want,
just so long as my ass don't gettoo big.

(02:22:59):
Now, okay, that is the actualdialogue.
I want to ask you guys aquestion and I want just like,
if possible, like you're on thestand and you can give me just
one answer.
Okay, I'm going to start withCoach.
Coach, hearing this fromMaureen and taking the children

(02:23:31):
out of it.
Do you think that she'sjustified in having left Wayne's
father understanding what youknow about?
Okay, Now, and boss.

Speaker 4 (02:23:34):
How about you?
Absolutely.
You're justified in leaving aromantic partnership whenever
you want to, regardless of thereason.

Speaker 2 (02:23:39):
Okay, now that you heard this boss, we'll go to you
first.
Is she justified in having lefther kids?
Nope, okay, and coach whatabout you?

Speaker 3 (02:23:55):
I'd say no, and then I'd get in trouble for trying to
explain my answer when I wassupposed to say yes or no.
But I'd say, if you're justgoing to force me to yes or no,
that's it.
Then no.
If it was bad enough for you toleave, then you got to get your
kid out the last one.

Speaker 2 (02:24:13):
Okay, last one, boss, we'll go to you first.
Um, if, if she had tried totake the two boys with her and
calvin, do you imagine that what, in whatever world you know,
whatever version of this, waynesenior would have let that
eventuality happen without anyrepercussions?

Speaker 4 (02:24:30):
yes he would have let them all go so what I am
imagining and I know that yousaid not to no, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (02:24:39):
It's fine, I just wanted to get an actual.
You actually can imagine thatthey could have gotten away with
taking the boys and leaving andtaking the car taking the boys
with Calvin.

Speaker 4 (02:24:48):
I think if she took the car and left and went to
Florida and then filed fordivorce and they went through
divorce proceedings and theyworked out a custody arrangement
.
He would have gone along withwhatever the court said.

Speaker 2 (02:24:59):
Coach.

Speaker 3 (02:25:02):
Do I say, say the question again.

Speaker 2 (02:25:04):
I want to make sure I'm answering If Maureen had
taken both, both boys and leftwith Calvin in the car and
driven away, would Wayne seniorhave let them do that without
repercussions?

Speaker 3 (02:25:18):
I lean toward yes and if you want I can, I can answer
why I think that yeah, please,Because I think the guy who
would have hunted them downbecause they took his kids would
hunt them down because theytook his car.
But, but, but, but.

(02:25:38):
But that is my thinking as wewere just going through actually
I didn't know you were going toask that quite that way, but I
thought, huh, I mean a guy who'scold Dude.
You left town with my wife andmy car, so that's plenty of
reason to come whoop your ass.
Anyway, Like I don't see theboys being taken, I think it's

(02:26:04):
as likely that Calvin was like Iwant your ass, I don't want
those motherfuckers.

Speaker 4 (02:26:10):
Yes, I firmly believe that if Maureen and Calvin had
taken the boys, wayne seniorwould have pursued them legally.
But that would have been youtook my kids.
We need to have a sharedcustody.
I am, I am allowed to see mychildren.

Speaker 2 (02:26:30):
Okay, and, and, and I mean maybe he wouldn't have
even legal.
But I guess, yeah, I don't, Idon't you may have a case,
because he did try to pursuewhen he got sick.
He did try to pursue legalramifications or legal recourse
for his job and he got fucked,um, and everybody knows he got
fucked and whatever.
So that indicates that maybe hedoes respect the, the uh law,

(02:26:54):
you, whatever law and orderthere is.
I listen, I, I hear you guyssay that and it makes me think
uh, I haven't been enough of amass hole here on the show, like
for you, to understand what thefuck a mass hole would do.
I'm just like I there's no.

Speaker 3 (02:27:11):
There is no, then why not the?

Speaker 2 (02:27:13):
car we're going to.
We may be able to, um, uh, Imay be able to get a specific
answer for this, and I'll tellyou how later.
I'm not going to say, but Imight actually have an actual
answer to this from the horse'smouth, so to speak.
But I think there's no prayerin the world that if she took
his son away, he doesn't comeafter him.

(02:27:35):
I just don't.

Speaker 4 (02:27:37):
But expand on that.
Come out, come after them.
How?

Speaker 3 (02:27:40):
and do what Right?

Speaker 2 (02:27:41):
Take his boy back you , fine, you want to take my wife
?
Fine, I don't need her.
She said, would you I?
You want to take the car?
Go ahead, take the car.
It's just a fucking car.
Put you in the ground.

Speaker 4 (02:27:54):
What about?
His coat gives you theindication that that is true.

Speaker 2 (02:27:57):
I guess, just growing up in New England and knowing
how people feel about their sons, and I just I don't know, I
just don't.
I have a question about thewhole son thing Hard-ass.
Irish value stuff.
I don't know man.
It feels absolutely unthinkableto me that he would Almost like

(02:28:18):
Lucetti, where you're like no,you can take my daughter.
Are you fucking crazy?
I'll drive as much of a pieceof shit as I am and as fucked up
as I am.
That is where the line is.
You have my girl?

Speaker 4 (02:28:28):
I will fucking kill you sorry, coach, I don't mean
to cut you off, but what I needto say is that I think the very
unique, very unique Jesus christ, my grandmother, would be
rolling in the grave if shehadn't donated her body to
science.
The unique thing about waynesenior and his code is not that
it is based in this idea of likedon't fuck with my shit, don't
fuck with me, don't blah, blah,blah, whatever else.

(02:28:50):
Wayne never hits when somebodyhits him, it way Wayne didn't go
to that guy's garage orwhatever and bust out the window
and then beat his ass.
He let him beat his ass.
Wayne got his ass beat Like.
What the code says is there aregaps in our justice system and
you need to fill them.

(02:29:10):
If you see the kid getting beatup in the hallway, you beat the
kid with a trumpet.
It is violent, it is severe, itis harsh, but it is based on
the idea of justice.
So I don't think that Waynesenior would say like I own my
son and you can't take him awayfrom me.
I think that he would.
I, I do not believe that.
I absolutely do not believethat, because he owned the car

(02:29:30):
and morning was his wife and ifhe was going to have that level
of ownership, I think that itwould have bled through those
other things, but he didn't, helet them go.

Speaker 2 (02:29:37):
He let them go.
He knew where they were.

Speaker 3 (02:29:39):
But you're saying it almost like it's self-evident,
like, oh, but no, those weren'tas important because he didn't
do it.
But that's all the evidence wehave.

Speaker 2 (02:29:45):
A guy left with his wife and his car.

Speaker 3 (02:29:48):
But I'm saying it's damn near a country song.
The dude left with wife and hiscar and he ain't gonna do
nothing.
So why do we believe that he'sgoing to kill the man If they
took that boy and put them inthe backseat?

Speaker 2 (02:30:00):
I'm going to toss this into the mix.
I know there are buttercups.
I know there are people outthere who are like hearing this
and thinking that you two arelike I.
Just I, just I know I have somebackup out there where it's
like it changes.

Speaker 3 (02:30:17):
If it's his child.
It just changes everything.

Speaker 2 (02:30:18):
I don't think he's going to hit Maureen, but I
think he's going to go killCalvin.
If that happens, he'll blameCalvin.
It's a very old-school-y stupidthing.
He'll leave Maureen on the sideof the road, but he's got to
know.

Speaker 3 (02:30:30):
Calvin wants the car and the woman.
Calvin wants his fucking kid.

Speaker 2 (02:30:35):
He's going gonna kill somebody Of the things.

Speaker 3 (02:30:37):
The thing that Calvin gives the least of a fuck about
, if they all go, is the kids.
Fuck yeah.
So I just don't get why, again,a guy who doesn't fucking do
that to you for his wife or hiscar is suddenly gonna kill you
over his child.
I wanna toss this into the mixreal quick before we go further,

(02:31:00):
because there's some stuff Ican remember too that we can
bring in.
How come the younger son isWayne Jr?

Speaker 2 (02:31:08):
Oh yeah, that's good.
Yeah, that's an excellent point.

Speaker 4 (02:31:12):
There's a story there .

Speaker 3 (02:31:13):
There's a story there .
I don't know what to tell you,but there's a story there.
There's a story there.
I don't know what to tell you,but there's a story there.
If you're in the junior blah,blah, blah business you don't
wait until you have a second son.
So what's that all about?

Speaker 2 (02:31:24):
So maybe it's not his son, not Wayne's son, I don't
know.

Speaker 3 (02:31:27):
I don't know, maybe it's not his son.

Speaker 2 (02:31:28):
Maybe they weren't together at that point, maybe,
whatever.
Why is Wayne Jr?
Just nobody likes Maureen.

Speaker 3 (02:31:34):
I'm saying I don't like her.
They can both be their kids.

Speaker 2 (02:31:37):
I don't know.
But I'm saying something is thesort of normal line You're like
, mr.
Hernandez the landlord.
A lot of guys came in and outof there.
Maybe they did.
Maybe they didn't.

Speaker 3 (02:31:49):
I'm saying, even if that's his son why is the older
son not Wayne Jr?

Speaker 2 (02:31:55):
We never talk over each other and this is the older
son, not Wayne Jr.
We never talk over each other,and this is the first time in
like a year we've like beenyelling at each other.

Speaker 4 (02:32:01):
I hope it's been a wonderful experience for
everyone listening.
I did not hear Coach disparageMaureen whatsoever for having
children with two different men,but it is an interesting thing
to consider.
If she left both of her sonswith a man who is the father to
only one of them, that would bea different thing.

(02:32:22):
I think also Castleton, in thesame way that I was like I know
the kind of person that CoachBeard is, like the Northside
Chicago Irish dude, I fuckingknow him.
I know this character.
I think that you were doing thatwith wayne senior and I
understand that yeah but I thinkthat that is overriding the way

(02:32:47):
in which his code does not fitwith other mass holes code like,
because you said this isdifferent.
You said that he operates in adifferent level.
He is supposed to be a kind oflike violent fucking bringer of
justice to all these assholeswho do whatever the fuck they
want and they drive theirgoddamn trucks through the

(02:33:08):
fucking intersection even thoughit wasn't their fucking turn.
I don't think that he would bethe asshole going through the
intersection.
He would be you saying what thefuck do you think you're doing?

Speaker 2 (02:33:18):
Those aren't the rules which is why I think these
guys are more common than youthink.
That's all I'm saying.
Like, wait, I know this is afictional character, but there's
a reason.
He's very relatable and atleast in this, in this neck of
the woods, like my mechanic downthe street is this guy and I
keep him real close because Iknow like if the end comes,

(02:33:39):
he'll be my first call, becauseI just know how he is.
He's like he would just be thisguy.

Speaker 3 (02:33:45):
These guys are a little more confident up here.
I actually want to hear moreabout this guy.
I really do.
I'm going to toss this into themix.
If Wayne Sr is essentially masshole one, right Like he's
essentially an archetype of thismass hole type guy character

(02:34:07):
right, Hold on, hold on, hold on, Let me.
If he is, why do the peoplemove?

Speaker 1 (02:34:15):
No, no, no no.
I was going to say he's pastmass hole.

Speaker 2 (02:34:18):
I'm saying, like I know what mass hole generally
means, like people, someone frommassachusetts who's an asshole
which is basically everybody inmassachusetts from if you're in
any other neighboring state butbut um, this is a different
thing, this is a, this is aunique thing, that what this guy
is.
And I, I listen, I just, I justdon't.
So I want to tell me what isthat thing like.
Tell me, because I, this is aunique thing, that what this guy
is.
And I listen, I just, I justdon't.

Speaker 3 (02:34:39):
So I want to tell me what is that thing Like tell me,
because I again I'm.
I'm saying I, I know.
I mean we can use a storyEverybody knows.
So we don't get into whatever.
Think about if anybody who'sseen what's love got to do with
it, right?
So tina, tina turner, ike turner, she takes off.
You know, I'm gonna get on thismotherfucking bus and run this

(02:35:01):
guy's fucking crazy.
He's gonna kill a whole bunchof us, right?
And so then he finds outthey're on this bus and he goes
and he gets his kids, he getshis wife and he throws them in.
And I don't know what thefuck's the matter with you.
Right to me that all is in line.
He's this abusive guy.
They are possessions.
You don't make decisionswithout me.
You don't get to go away.
You'll be sitting here and behere until I'm ready to beat you

(02:35:22):
again.
Like it all lines up.
I'm saying, ike turner, if tinahadn't taken the kids with her,
ike turner wasn't gonna be likeoh well, fuck it, get on your
bus, as long as I got my kids.
He's like no, motherfuckers,don't do shit.
Until I say do shit.
That's it, that's who I am.

(02:35:43):
So I'm trying to understand why.
Wayne senior.

Speaker 2 (02:35:46):
There's a cultural difference there.

Speaker 3 (02:35:56):
No, I'm not doubting there is, but what I can say is
the way you're describing ithasn't illuminated for me how we
get from a guy who getsperiodic postcards of his wife
and his car with this other dudeis also the dude who, if you
take his son with them and he'snow with his mom in Florida, is

(02:36:17):
going to kill everybody becausenow you don't fuck around with
my son.
Was he really into childrearing like that?

Speaker 2 (02:36:26):
I don't get it.
He didn't have to, but he did.
My dad stuck around.

Speaker 3 (02:36:31):
I don't see that as consistent and I guess that's
where we're diverging.
I don't see it could happen,anything could happen, but I
don't see how the other facts ofthis case lead to that
conclusion Okay, and listen,we're going to find out.

Speaker 2 (02:36:51):
I am one degree of separation from Sean Simmons,
the creator of Wayne.
I have his email address.
I'm going to reach out to him.
I'm going to see if I can get aconcrete answer about that.
But yeah, these are all.
These are all.
My God, we, this.

(02:37:12):
I'm going to need a spa dayafter this, after this episode.

Speaker 4 (02:37:19):
You're not able to tolerate it.

Speaker 2 (02:37:24):
I know it's just a lot.
It's a lot.
Listen, you think you thinkpeople are like-minded or we
come at it from this, fromsimilar positions, and and
there's all these different,there's just different tiers.
It's fascinating See howeverybody lines up on all these
different issues's justdifferent tiers.
It's fascinating to see howeverybody lines up on all these
different issues.
Um, yeah, no, I just uh, we'regonna learn more.
I really, I really reallywanted to get deeper into this

(02:37:47):
episode.
Uh, thanks for uh stopping mefrom accomplishing that.
Um, but, uh, I think we, we, wetook a bite out of it, and God,
there's so much more.
For people who have alreadywatched it, they know what's
coming.
For people who are justlistening and haven't seen this
episode, it's a humdinger.

(02:38:07):
So we'll leave it there fortoday.
Coach, where can people findyou if they want to find you?

Speaker 3 (02:38:13):
I'm going to switch up on you today and I'm going to
let you know that you can findme at AlignPcom.
That's our company site and Iwant you to check out the
speaker page.
I want you to check out what wedo, because I'm about the
business of getting out in theworld and working with
businesses and individuals andteams and all the things to help

(02:38:34):
you work in an aligned way andhave a better experience, and
all the things to help you workin an aligned way and have a
better experience.
So you need a speaker, you needsomebody to come in and
facilitate, look up, coach.

Speaker 2 (02:38:48):
AlignPcom Love it.
What about you, boss?

Speaker 4 (02:38:50):
You can find me at Blue Sky, which is Dumley
Chambers.
Also on threads, which is EmilyChambers.31.
Uh, I warned everybody theother night but I am starting
another.
You're the worst rewatch, sosorry about that.
There's gonna be a lot of a lotof threading, a lot of emotions
, a lot of talking about howpretty gretchen cutler's hair is

(02:39:11):
, um, and then maybe writingabout it at the antagonist,
which is antagonist, blogcom.

Speaker 2 (02:39:21):
Yeah, we are.
Yeah, okay, we will pick thisup.
We will pick this up next time.

Speaker 4 (02:39:27):
No, no, no, it's amazing.
No, no, no it's just beaten thelife out of you.

Speaker 2 (02:39:33):
I, I, I, man, there's just a lot to think about, a
lot to think about and how andhow we all process uh, this,
this information.
Um, I, I always say, um,support your local libraries.
In the written word, I startedadding last time raise better
boys.
Um, I'm going to put my moneywhere my mouth is.
Um, we're going to promote thisevent.

(02:39:54):
Uh, it's on the.
Uh.
Uh, we have a relationship withan author named Rick Hansen.
I don't know if people have everread Rick Change your brain,
change your life.
He's a neuropsychologist tobestselling New York Times
author, and he's a wonderful manwho has also identified a lot

(02:40:16):
of what we talked about, aboutmen in society and how to change
these things.
He is affiliated with somepeople who are running a
conference which is called thePower of Male Compassion, and so
I'm going to put the links inthe in the description.

(02:40:38):
It's a free, it's just a freeconference of a lot of thought
leaders in the, in the space ofmindfulness, who have, who have
identified like men need someresources.
So this is like no cost, noproblem.
So this is like no cost, noproblem.
It's a way for people to reachout and maybe learn something,

(02:41:05):
and I will list this in thedescription and I'll put it on
the community site for anyoneinterested.
We've got to start taking stepsto help this stuff.
And yeah, just want to add thatbecause we have there's a lot,
there's lots of it's a lot, it'sa lot.
I'm dying to ask Sean Simmonsabout, about that, that one

(02:41:28):
question.
I'm dying, dying to find outwhat his take on that would be
Okay.
Thank you everybody.
Thank you for thank you forlistening, thanks for joining us
today.
We'll be back next time withpart 2 of Wayne, episode 9.
Thought we was friends anduntil next time we are Richmond
till we die die die.

(02:41:54):
I couldn't.

Speaker 3 (02:41:57):
I was letting the wheels go.
I don't prepare those.
They have to happen.

Speaker 2 (02:42:00):
They have to just come.

Speaker 3 (02:42:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:42:03):
Okay, all right, thanks everybody.
We'll see you next time.

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Wayne | S1 Ep9 Part1 "Thought We Was Friends"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Wayne | S1 Ep9 Part1 "Thought We Was Friends"