Wayne | S1 Ep9 Part2 "Thought We Was Friends" - The Tedcast - A Deep Dive Podcast About The Bear

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast.
Welcome all Greyhound fans,welcome all you sinners from the
dog track and all the AFCRichmond fans around the world.
It's the Lasso way around theseparts with Coach, coach and
Boss, without further ado, coachCastleton.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Okay, because obviously we're not done talking
about the bear yet and not thebear of the TV show I will talk
about that all the time, butwe're talking done talking about
the bear yet, um, and not thebear the tv show I will talk
about that all the time, butwe're talking about man versus
bear.
I need to specifically mentionthat, uh, my older sister,
maureen, after listening to ourdiscussion about the bear,
texted me that, uh, she wantedto, yes, and that, yes, I was
correct when I said the thingabout the statistics involving

(01:02):
men.
And also there's an instagram.
I need to find it.
I don't know the poor guy'sname, but basically he took the
current stats and extrapolatedit and showed that actually,
even if we had as many bears aswe do men, and if we had as many
bear encounters, men are stillattacking women at higher rates
than bears would like sweetjesus, when you do the math and

(01:24):
also.
I'm sorry, go ahead, this ispainful to hear.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
But this is the fucking thing.
My point was men were so sureof the objectivity of their own
opinion that they felt for surebears must be more dangerous.
For sure, and then we showedthem the statistics and they're
like those statistics are wrong.
And then we extrapolated thestatistics and they're like it
still doesn't feel right.
And they don't understand thatwhen they say like, oh well,
you're hysterical, you have noidea how dangerous men are,

(01:52):
we're like no dude, you'rehysterical, you have no idea how
dangerous men actually are.
So those things are true andalso it's part of the men being
objective whereas women aresubjective, and that's a whole
issue.
But, as my sister pointed out,it is also about the physical
realities of feeling afraid whenyou see strange men.

(02:16):
As a woman, like, not just that, it is what you were thinking.
The question was which, who doyou feel more comfortable with
and the do you feel morecomfortable with and the?
Who you feel more comfortablewith?
Like the physical reaction,what your body says, because
your body remembers the trauma.
Your body says dudes aren'tsafe and um, because god and her

(02:38):
terrible sense of humor.
Uh, friday night I went over toa friend's place and because
we're old, the the night wasover by 10.
So at 10 o'clock I was like I'mgonna go home and go to sleep.
Time for bed.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I get a lift.
Sometimes, when you get into alift or a cab or whatever, the
driver is like, this persondoesn't want to listen to this
music.
I'm going to put on some TaylorSwift and I don't want to hear
Taylor Swift, but I appreciatethat he's picking up the right
vibe.
This guy didn't put on TaylorSwift.
Instead, he said where are yougoing?
Are you going out?
Are you going to go party?
Going to go get some drinks,going to go dancing?

(03:11):
And I'm like no, I'm a 40 yearold white woman wearing what
somebody referred to as anInspector Gadget trench coat,
like I'm going home, my night isover.
And he was like no.
And he was like no, you got togo out, you got to have fun, you
got to get some drinks, you gotto do this and blah, blah, blah
Got to go have fun.
I think he was trying to befriendly, but I hate when people

(03:32):
tell women what to do.
Don't tell us.
Even if you think it's smart,don't tell us what to do.
And I was like no, no, no, no,I mean, you should smile more.
We should smile more.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
I know, yeah, I mean seriously, that's just
objectively true obviously.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, sorry, guys, sorry.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
So he was saying like you got to do all these things
and blah, blah, blah andeverything else, and I was like
no, I was like listen, it's mybedtime.
I was like I got to go home andgo to sleep and at that point he
gestured at his phone and hewas like oh so, is that where
you live?
And I immediately got scared.
Not that I was thinking aboutit, not that I was like, oh no,

(04:12):
this is danger now, but just mybody was like my heart rate
elevated.
I was like, oh, you arepointing out that you know where
I live, what my address is.
And before I could even thinkabout it, I said, oh no, I live
around there.
That's the address of the storethat they recommend as a pickup
.
So that's just what I put inbecause it's easier.
I'm sure that he didn't meananything by it.

(04:34):
I'm sure that he didn't.
I should also mention, as wecontinue talking, because at
this point I was like, well, I'mnot going to not talk, we have
to keep talking in order to makethis light and fun.
So, as we kept talking, he saidhe's originally from Mexico City
.
I would like to say Iunderstand that Latin culture is
very like yeah, come on, comeover to the house, come like,

(04:55):
hang out.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
We're going to go yeah.
Different energy, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
But one of the things he said was, oh, you've got to
visit Mexico City.
And I was like, I'm sure I'veheard it's lovely.
He was like, yeah, you got togo, I'll take you.
I was like, sir, you weredriving me around in your car.
You can't say that you're goingto take me to a place that I
was not planning on going.
Like, again, I don't, itdoesn't matter if he was

(05:18):
dangerous.
I felt what I felt was ah,goddammit.
Also, I didn't want to be hiton and like all these other
things, sure, sure, sure.
So at this point I had to startin with the oh well, my
boyfriend and I went to cancunthat's not real mexico, but like
we've been there, blah blah andhe was like, oh, so you're not
married?
And I was like no, but we'vebeen together for a long time.

(05:39):
You know, when you livetogether and you have a dog, all
of these things are lies.
But I'm telling him all thesethings to lay the, the
groundwork of right pleaseplease don't come to my house
later and do anything weird.
And then, when he dropped me off, I didn't go in through my
front door, I walked around tothe alley in the back so that he
wouldn't know exactly whichbuilding I was going into, and I

(06:01):
didn't turn on any lights untilhe drove away and I don't know.
There is no way at this pointof proving that he was dangerous
.
I'm not saying that but, I alsocan't say for sure that he
wasn't is there a possibilitythat me doing all those things
made him decide he wasn't goingto come back at three in the
morning and see if he couldfigure out which apartment I

(06:22):
lived in like this?
And these are all things thatweren't even.
It's not that I was thinkingabout them.
It was, as my sister said, likethe trauma of everything else
that's ever happened and alsoeverything that we've been
taught by society that said thisdoesn't feel right, so you need
to keep your shit safe.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
I also, and it's, I would assume, immeasurable,
although maybe there's somebodyout there brilliant enough to
measure it.
What is the cumulative effect?
yep of 24 hours, seven days aweek, you having to manage that,

(07:05):
if not even consciously, likeyou said.
Oh, my heart rate went up.
Well, that that has an effectover time like one of the things
I'm learning and it's a totallydifferent thing.
I don't want to change subjects, but my in my own life, in
terms of you know, my traumasand whatever is like you walk
around with all that cortisolpumping through you all goddamn

(07:27):
day.
Like that has an eventual effect, like that's not like part of
my, you know so I think of yousaying that and I go yes, thank
God you were safe that night.
But also there's the commute towork in the morning, where some
guy says good morning, but itfeels skeevy.
So your heart went up a littlebit and then you walked into the
building and it's like what isthat guy holding the door?

(07:47):
like whatever the things arelike I'm, as a guy I don't even
know him all, I'm sure you couldjust say to daphne some
equivalent of like so I waswalking in, this guy held the
door for me and she'd getsomething I'm not that literally
, but that she'd get the messageof it and be like, oh my god,
god, and I'd be sitting therelike what happened next, like
totally clueless.
I probably would have fallenasleep in that lift or Uber or

(08:09):
whatever you were in.
I probably would have taken anap, tired, had a couple of
drinks Meanwhile, you're likecome on that matters.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm just going to go ahead and straight quote my
sister's text at this pointwhere she says and I don't mean
that facts are feelings or thatwomen feel too much or anything
like that, I mean that we havebeen taught the reality that we
need to be aware of oursurroundings and trust our
instinct and be aware of dangerall the time, because men are
fucking dangerous and we need toknow that in order to survive

(08:42):
and not all men, men aredangerous.
I know none of the peoplelistening at this point in the
podcast are going to say that,but like, that's, that's the
shit.
We are told.
The world is dangerous here.
Here's a rape whistle.
Your first week of college,make sure you don't go to a
party by yourself.
Here's a list of all the thingsyou need to do.
And then we're gaslit intosaying like well, why don't you

(09:05):
trust?
Oh, you're so mean to not trustmen.
Like the underlying issue hereis not just that women feel
unsafe all the time.
It is that because, also, Idon't feel unsafe all the time.
Like Castleton you've said, whythe fuck do you leave your back
door open when you walk over tothe store?
I'm like it'll be fine, it'sprobably going to be fine.

(09:27):
I have a blatant disregard formy own safety.
This was a different instancewhere, for whatever reason, I
was like this is not great, Idon't love this.
But what I couldn't do in thatcab and felt safe doing was
saying hey, buddy, you're makingme uncomfortable, like I could
not have that conversation withhim, because most women can't
have that conversation with mostof the men that they know, most

(09:50):
of the men that I know, eventhe really good ones.
If I said, hey, you didsomething, and it made me
uncomfortable, it hurt myfeelings, it made me feel
diminished or ignored.
If I said that, many of themwould not say the right thing,
which is oh shit, I'm reallysorry.
What could I do in the futureto avoid that?
They will say oh, I didn't meanto do that.
No, no, no, you misunderstood,that's not what I did.

(10:11):
No, no, no.
What happened was I was justbeing nice when I said this
thing.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
Sorry you got it wrong and you took it wrong,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
And that second part is one of the things that is
going to be so difficult todismantle, because you could say
like well, I've never rapedanybody and I'm like OK, but
when a woman presented you withsomething that you did that hurt
her feelings, how did you reactto her?
Did you validate what she wassaying, did you accept that what
she was saying was accurate andthat you had in fact fucked
something up, or did you saylike, oh no, you just don't

(10:40):
understand what I was doing?

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, everything you said, obviously, and not just
weighted input.
Yes, and I think, if you don'tknow what it is to be afraid not
afraid in a specific instance,oh, this person is heading out
to harm me but like, as I stepout of my front door, I am

(11:10):
stepping into a dangerous,potentially hostile world I
think there's just a lot of andthis is also not something men
are taught there's just a lot ofneed to just listen for a while
and I feel like, even for guyswho are trying and want to be

(11:41):
getting it and I include myselfin this a desire to come to a
conclusion, and I think thisshit is so deep that we need to
like keep listening for a while.
Like I'm not even sure Iunderstand all the questions
that need answering based onthis conversation that has
unfolded, it really made me stopand go like, oh my god, like

(12:01):
the implications are huge, andeven the part you're talking
about, which is like thereaction to the reaction, like
that.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
That's what.
That's the thing that comesthat you know like how dare you
be scared of me?

Speaker 3 (12:12):
like what the fuck?
Are you crazy?

Speaker 4 (12:14):
how many men are butthurt over this concept?
Yeah, instead of being likeholy fuck, what a wake-up call
is.
Yeah, and some, some people arelike that but, yeah, so many.
There's such a highpreponderance of people
disputing it or trying to shamewomen or whatever it's.
It's my.
My 18 year old daughter was onthe phone with me this morning.

(12:36):
She had her last day of herfirst year of college and she
decided you know what I'm goingto, I'm a.
She's flying home tonight andshe said I'm going to go get my
little brother and sister somelittle trinkets from the local
store, you know, and she's onthe phone with me, walking down
like in a very sort of unlike,you know, a loturb, that's sort

(12:57):
of in a city and um, but it'sreally nice, beautiful, like
little cobblestone streets, it'sbeautiful, um.
And still she's paused severaltimes while on the phone with me
to be like I gotta just hang on, gotta make sure there's no

(13:18):
creepy dudes following me.
This guy looks sketchy.
I didn't like him.
Look at me from the other sideof the street, you know walking
and uh, and there was a greatpost on threads I don't have it
in front of me, but it was likeyou know just really basically
like yes, I understand some menare having a hard time accepting
this, but how many times haveyou had to double back in your
life?
How many times have you had tostop in a store window.

(13:39):
How many times have you get onyour phone just in case?
How many times like and it'slike every woman you know has
done this many?
many, many, many times womencan't even get dressed in the
morning.
Um, without factoring in ahundred different things about
what their appearance will giveoff, you can't like.
I remember when somebody, uhwoman, was saying, yeah well,

(14:01):
I'll never wear a ponytail again, and I was like wait what?
Absorbing that, what that meant.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
I'm feeling like a real idiot right now, because
I'm like what?

Speaker 4 (14:11):
Yeah, but if you think about it, coach, it's a
lot of the same reason why Bossand I think this is like so.
This is why we do.
Holy fuck, that's dark.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah, listen, remember what Boss said about
panties and how there's no rightage to call it one thing or the
other.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
you're either, boss, what is it?
One is one is um, infantilizingand the other one is over,
overly sexualized.
Right, is that what it is?
So, so there are.
There are things that womenwould prefer, like throw your
hair up in a ponytail, whatever,but no, because it sends a
certain message and the amountof thought, if you're a dude,
you put on whatever the fuck isclosest to you, and there is

(14:50):
zero.
So this is important, becauseI'm glad you brought this up,
boss, and actually I hatehearing it.
I hate hearing that you wentthrough that and I couldn't be
next to you like a fucking gruffbarbarian just to just to shut
this shit down and listen.
He could have been just thenicest right, that's the thing,
that's the thing there's atrauma response right there's a

(15:13):
trauma responseyep, I have a trauma response
listening to it in the past.
Yep, and then thinking about ohmy god, I wish, but.
But I will say that I spent thevast majority of my life, like
four-fifths of my life, being onthe wrong side of every one of
these equations.

(15:34):
Not like I was an overt stalkeror anything, but I had never
thought about it, never.
You know just so much of ourupbringing.
Um, even even the women of mylife who raised me, raised me to
be sort of machiavellian andyou know you're the man like oh,
it's her, I'll let her motherworry about that.
You know, you're my son, you'renot my daughter, all the

(15:54):
different things that are cookedinto this yeah, right, and um
so, yes, um, just the responseto the bear versus man thing.
You go, we have a long long,long road ahead, but it starts,
you know, starts, with each oneof us trying to do this and

(16:15):
having daily sort of.
It's funny.
I posted something, I forwardedsomething where it was like, oh
, here are things that men do.
Oh god, I forget what it was,but it was like how, how men
adjust to situations negatively.

(16:36):
So it's like, oh, they, weavoid, we withdraw, we can, you
know, hold our, hold ourpartners hostage like different
little things or whatever, um,and I forwarded it like a good
samaritan, like, yeah, yeah lookat stupid men.
And juliana said something to meI didn't like and I was like oh
, really like.
And then I was like wait I justdid number five.
I didn't even yeah, real like,and it wasn't like I did it like

(16:57):
over the thing.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
But I like.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
But you see, like, yeah, uh-huh, yeah, I was like I
just, I'm like, oh my God, soit just requires, you know, sort
of daily practice at, yes, youknow, exercising these muscles,
because so many of us wereconditioned in a different a
world that, thank God, you know,doesn't exist in the same way

(17:20):
as it used to.
And there are, you know, waysfor us to improve.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
So two things as you say.
That one is, um, I, I, as thisquestion has been asked, I was
sharing, uh, I was sharing withthe two of you, as you know, but
is this?
I want to change the answer,and so I've been conspiring and
more on this soon, buttercupsand other listeners, but no,

(17:46):
seriously, actively, like makingit a part.
I want to be a part of it, butthe very least helping a starter

(18:08):
movement that makes it.
So at some point we societallycould ask this question and have
the answer be obvious in theopposite direction, like I
actually think that is a goal.
And so, anyway, I'm, I'm.
I'm actually very excited aboutthat in part, coach, because I
think the work that guys likeyou and I can do, which is what
you just did, which is to saynot huh, ain't I a great guy?
I haven't raped anybody in 78days Like that's a fucking thing

(18:32):
to be proud of.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
It's like that horrible workplace accident
Exactly.
Hey look at me, pat me on theback.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Hey look at you know, look at us, is, is that yeah?
Hey, look at us, yeah, likethat's not.
And we're constantly going ohmy God, I just did number five,
I need to work on that.
And creating supportive systemsamongst men.
To one say, hey, I hate tobreak it to you, but you just
did number five, so you know,tighten up.
And then also, hey, man, I justdid number five, can we talk

(19:03):
about it for a second, because Igot to figure out how to be
better about that.
Yeah, but that's the like wegot to move to that stuff.
Like this idea that like Ididn't, you know, do this
heinous crime against humanity,so I guess I deserve a fucking
medal.
Like we got to get that out ofhere.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no for sure.
Just real quick on that.
I want to mention, um, theinstagram video that I pointed
out about statistics.
That is, uh, dylan michaelwhite on instagram.
If anybody wants to go, followhim.
Um, and then the second thing Iwant to say is somebody pointed
out that having thisconversation is extremely
important and also having it inthese ways where it's like, oh

(19:43):
shit, I did, number, did numberfive, not not just like I've
never committed a violent crime,but like really getting in
there knowing that.
To that end, I also want tospecify, luckily, somebody on
threads, a white lady said hey,white women.
By the way, we, we sometimesare the man in that situation.
Sometimes for especially blackpeople, people color in general,

(20:05):
we're, we're the man and they,they are more scared of us than
the bear and we need to keepthat in mind.
We can't whoa right yeah, whatwas like?

Speaker 3 (20:16):
what was the response to that?
That is that's, that's.
Whoever said that has a levelof like insight and that is whoa
yeah that was luckily.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Most of it was like either oh wow or fuck yes,
you're right.
Or I did see one, a blackwoman's account.
I can't remember the name rightnow, but she was like this
white lady gathering all of herpeople together.
Thank, like this.
This is phenomenal.
Look at her gather up all thewhite women.
And I was like, oh okay, good,like, and I, yeah, I I remember

(20:50):
that feeling from like 2017 ish,where women of color were
finally like hey, white ladies,56 of you voted for trump.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Like get your shit together.
That was that was my next jokewas like if she can do that,
let's get her.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Get white women to vote vote right, yeah, yeah but
like I mean it's, it's yeah, andI and I felt it.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
I was like no, no, no , but I'm, I'm a good one, but I
, I voted, I did it right, I did, and so even I needed to like,
deconstruct that shit and belike no, it's not about me, it
is overall.
We need to look at the largersystems here.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
I know I've mentioned it before, but somebody who
mentored me in terms of DEI hisblack man, probably about 10
years older than me, roughly andhe really opened my eyes to how
important it was to checkyourself first Where's my

(21:45):
privilege?
Yep, where am I stepping in it?
Because we are all just fuckingexperts in all the ways that
everybody else sucks and we areoppressed.
And until you start looking atthe world through the eyes of's
my privilege, how can I becreating equity?

(22:05):
It's always like the oppressionolympics.
I don't want to take us.
We've had this conversation, soI don't want to take us down
this road.
But I will point out that I justand I'm sure I'm going to get
flamed for it, but I was on athread with some folks who point
out that ucla apparently thishappened and I I believe that it
happened some pro-Palestinianprotesters beat some women up.

(22:29):
I don't know all the details ofit, but that's the basics of it
.
Now I've also seen that somepro like the counter protesters,
whatever you want to call that,but the counter protesters
attacked some UCLA reporters, solike there have been physical
attacks in both directions.
But I am in enoughconversations.

(22:52):
I have observed enough that Iam seeing that people who are on
one side are only talking aboutthis attack and people on the
other side are only, and I'mlike this is the problem.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, this right here is the fucking problem
thousands of years with thisvery specific conflict.
Yeah, I'm like are you?

Speaker 3 (23:13):
what we all need to be saying is this cannot stand.
Neither of these can standright, and it doesn't matter
which attack happened first, Idon't.
This can't stand until we cando that Right.
So anyway, in terms of thisconversation we are in with man
versus beer, I just think it'slike shouldn't the goal just be

(23:33):
that we should all be able tocome and go with a reasonable
sense of safety, and certainlythat nothing like about us sense
of safety, and certainly thatnothing like about us bad things
are going to happen in theworld, but it shouldn't be that
be because of the color of myskin or what chromosomes I
happen to be born with, that Iam at some greater danger on a

(23:56):
regular basis and I'd like Idon't know, it feels pollyannish
, but I also feel like it's theonly real answer to all of this.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
No, it's oddly enough the time when both sides
actually would be beneficial.
There are times where peoplecan.
You don't understand thecontext to death.
Sometimes the context isextremely important and
sometimes the context is youdon't get to beat people at a
peaceful protest, you just don'tget to regardless.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Aw, right, seriously, though, right, though, right.
I mean, you get the sense thatfrom some people they're like
but, but I'm right and I'm like,yeah, but I don't care, like
you can't, I don't care that youthink you're right, like, of
course, you think you're right,that's why you're here.
Yeah, like what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (24:40):
uh, also, just because I want to make sure to
call her out also on threads,the woman that said, hey, fellow
white ladies, uh, ladies, isGwen Michelle, michelle with one
L and Gwen with a Y and two Ns,or I follow her and I reposted
so you can find her through me.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, can you post that on the community site, boss
?
Yes, I will.
Yeah, thank you, it's a work inprogress.
I remember when I started torealize that I do this thing as
a writer, where I scan peopleand I just look at somebody and
I go boop a quick up and downmen and women but I realized,

(25:21):
wait a second, the women can'ttell the difference, they don't
know I'm inputting their shoes'ttell the they don't know.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
I'm like oh, this guy's a writer shoes as, yeah,
they don't know that, right.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
So I had to train myself to like, if I'm walking
and there's a woman, uh,especially with my look, because
I look like, uh, like, um, uh,like I might be like the
sergeant at arms of your localmilitia, it's just luckily,
luckily, how the look.
I was born into boy, it's greatboy, howdy, um.
But I always like, if I'mwalking and and I'm like there's

(25:50):
a woman coming towards me andI'm on the other way, I, I just
don't, you know, like, make sure, like I, just I want to, I move
out of the way.
I, I avert my whatever, likeshe doesn't have to say hi to me
, she's, I don't want her to bethreatened.
I drop my shoulders as much aspossible.
I'm just like, just, you knowwhat I mean.
Try to give her as much safetyas possible, you know.
I don't have to make eyecontact and say, hey, how are

(26:12):
you today?
Like, no, she doesn't owe methat she owes, she doesn't owe
me anything.
She just wants to get from a tob, um, in a, in a, as much of a
straight line as she can,without uh creeps on the way,
and, however, I can make her daybetter, stranger woman.
You know what I mean.
That that, then I'm happy to dothat.
So, um, yeah, it's the littlethings in any to be mindful of

(26:36):
these, these moments.
And you know I won't get intolike an elevator with with you
know, um, like a woman byherself, with things like that.
I don't want any, I just don'twant anyone to feel whatever and
I can get the next goddamnelevator.
You know it's not, I can takethe stairs, it's not.
There's just little choices youcan make on a daily basis where
you're like, okay, if I canmake this a tiny bit better,

(26:58):
like a tiny bit better.
Especially, I am mindful of howI do look like it's not like
I'm a walking threat level alphabut I have a beard and stocky.
It's just like they don't know,people don't know.
No, seriously, you just have tobe mindful of it.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
I was laughing at one point.
I was in a store, wherever Iwas, but I had Biggie with me
and I could just see peoplelight up Because he's little and
he's cute and he's thefriendliest thing ever.
I'm like they don't know you,Would you stop it?
But he loves everybody, right.
But I see people relax.
I've watched it happen and Ijoke about it like, oh, every

(27:42):
black man should get one.
I'm like every black man shouldget a Maltese.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
Like that should be like a little adorable puppy you
graduate junior high school.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
They're like here you go.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
Take that with you everywhere you go.
Here's your diploma, here'syour Maltese.
His name is Fluffy.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
But yeah, like it really does make me think, think
about like how do I keep thatfeeling at a minimum, like you
say, like just dropping yourshoulders a little bit, which is
totally, but it could help, itreally could help.
It makes me look like I'm notmaking myself big right, yeah
All right.
Take it easy.
So, anyway, I think it's deeplyimportant.

(28:22):
But that thing about lookingreminded me.
I won't keep us away from Waynetoo long, but the thing about
looking and how far I'vepersonally come and also how far
I feel we need to come.
I still remember distinctly asa teenager being taught by a guy

(28:43):
how to spot when a woman'scoming towards you, if she's got
a big old ass, and how, becauseyou can see from you.
And most def says it in a song.
He says ass so fat you can seeit from the front.
And I remember hearing thatlyric and being like so this is
something that this is liketaught, yeah.

(29:07):
And then, of course so why arewe spotting it?
So that when she walks by wecan turn and look at this
woman's ass?
Yeah, 14 or 13 or whatever.
The fuck I was like what am Ibeing taught like, and who
taught it to you?
And why do we all know it?
And I never knew most deaf.
So like, apparently everybody'sjust been like passing this

(29:28):
along, like what the fuck?
That's the kind of stuff that Ifeel like we got to catch that
stuff, because I think that'slike that sort of sends you down
a path of like that's the firstthought you have when you see a
woman.
It's like, well, let me checkout her body parts.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
Like that's well.
This is like.
This is the or, this is thebiological impulse, that is,
that is fat.
There is a biological programthat is in, in, in, sort of
embedded in the, in the, in the.
You know the male archetype,this is literally for

(30:09):
procreation and has kept peoplereproducing for eons, but in a
modern society it doesn't have aplace in the same way.
This is why, whenever we talkabout this and I know I beat
this drum I'm like people do notunderstand testosterone.
So I, I, I just it is like nodrug out there.

(30:30):
It is.
It is so powerful.
And until we teach young menhow to cope, how to manage, how
to understand what is happeningto them hormonally, how what
biology would direct them to do,as what biology would direct
them to do, as opposed to whatsociety expects them to do,

(30:51):
these are big issues that arenot going to be easily solved
because it requires caregiversand people who are in power to
sort of validate the strength ofthis and people seem hesitant
to do.
Even even talking about likemasturbation is still taboo

(31:13):
right like what are we rightlike?

Speaker 3 (31:15):
yeah, so instead, don't.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
Don't do that, don't masturbate.
Whatever you do, do notmasturbate.
Make sure.
Instead, you know, become ajihadist, and then you'll get to
a place where you can havewhatever 72 virgins.
Yeah, whatever you know sowe've got it so wrong and it's
abused by oppressive systems to,you know, radicalize people.

(31:39):
And we see it in what we thinkof as advanced societies,
advanced civilizations, advancedstructures.
We see it all the time used,improperly misused for corporate
reasons and things like that.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Sorry, no, no, it's this biological impulse and
we're in a society now and wehave to, like, deal with the
impulse and go in a newdirection.
Right now I know it's happeningin New York or it's been

(32:18):
happened.
Yeah, it's happened recentlyand it may be happening other
places.
I kind of really hope not.
And it may be happening otherplaces.
I kind of really hope not.
There are apparently somesubset of men who are just
walking through America's citiesand punching random women in
the face and, in addition tothat being fucking horrific and
me wishing I could somehow justappear at that exact moment and

(32:43):
have quite a conversation withsaid man.
That is so much back to caveman, bonk over the head, drag you
back to my cave that it's almostcomical like if I would
workshop like hey, ha ha ha.
I want to write a comedy that'slike we're really cavemen.
What's a way we could show that?

(33:03):
A way I would show it would beto bump, to hit a woman randomly
, right and we're, and it'shappening right now in our world
.
It's not satirical, it's notanything.
It is a choice certain men aremaking I hadn't.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
This is all news to me oh really, I'll tell you that
no no, no, I'll tell you thatthe impulse I had you want to
talk about primal impulses, whenyou said that it like the
violent impulse, oh, I have Idirected at those men I know,
and how badly I want tomagically appear the second,
he's about to step towards someunsuspecting woman.

(33:42):
I can't even tell you that therage this brings.
And so, boss, this is when wetalk about like, oh, I give them
love, yeah, yeah, till I hearthat now they will.
They don't get an iota ofattention or love.
They only get my rage and myanger and my spite and my
resentment.
And you thought that is danger.
When you say, oh you, you can'tbe a nice danger, I didn't know

(34:04):
that was happening.
It makes sense, because we're,you know, the lowest 1% of any
group is fucking mind-bogglinglystupid.
That and every other thing youcan think of is happening.

(34:27):
Um, but my god, that it justmakes me.
It makes me, it makes it doessomething so unhealthy I can't
tell you through my whole bodylike I I'm like coursing with,
with anger right now, the at thefact that I never heard, I had
never heard that oh no, it's athing I mean you, you're aware
of it, right?

Speaker 2 (34:40):
okay, yeah, I was gonna say I I'm pretty sure it's
a thing yes, yeah, and you knowyeah so it just to speak on a
couple of the things that werementioned, and then, at some
point, this is going to be apodcast, that it should be about
wayne.
Maybe we'll see.
We'll see what we get to, but acouple of those things, um, the
first of which is I don't wantto diminish the effects of

(35:01):
testosterone, especially because, uh, specifically trans people
have said like moving from oneto the other like uh um, I might
have been a river butcher, Ican't remember, but I remember a
trans uh man saying I had noidea what this would be like
like once that's actually whatdid it for me, boss

Speaker 3 (35:21):
oh, that's seriously.
That's where it put me over,yeah it was when, when people
who were in transition were likeholy fuck.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
you have no idea, Because that reflected back to
me what I had grown up feeling.
So anyway, keep going.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
So I don't want to diminish that.
I do want to say that a coupleof years ago, back on Twitter
back when it was Twitter Itweeted information aimed at
preparing women for their 40sneeds to be a lot less quote how
to prevent wrinkles and a lotmore.
You're basically a 13 year oldboy now.
Watch out for even theslightest breeze, because your

(35:59):
whole day is Googling picturesof David Tennant and Good Omens.
Now, because that was a thinglike at that stage, like I don't
think that there are.
I believe that there are plentyof women who, when they see
somebody walking down the street, have similar thoughts to what
men would see when they'rewalking down the street.
I think that society doesn'tencourage or allow for that, and

(36:21):
so we are taught not to discussthose things or acknowledge
them and also to tamp down thosefeelings, because we're
supposed to be good women whodon't fucking bullshit.
Like, believe me, there is afemale gaze and we have been
staring at men and we just can'tacknowledge it.
So that's one part of it.
The other thing is we have somany different situations where

(36:44):
we will say, oh, oh well, men,like I'm not saying you said
this, kassadin at all.
I know that that isn't the fact.
Other people would saytestosterone is so wild, it's
such an animal impulse that thisis why boys act this way.
This is why men act this way.
It's nature.
There's something natural.
This is also why, when men getangry, oh well, they lost
control and hit their wife, orlost control and hit some woman

(37:06):
on the street they never losecontrol and hit their boss.
That happens almost never.
So they're not losing control.
They're deciding where todirect the rage that they
already had and didn't know whatto do with, and maybe somehow
society could help them figureout how to deal with that rage.
But the answer is never.

(37:40):
Oh well, this is it's just theiremotions.
Like that's fucking not it.
Like you said, like it doesn'tmatter what your emotions are.
We live in a society, so weneed to make sure that we are
hammering home.
Lots of people have those sameimpulses and thoughts, and most
other people manage to keeptheir shit together and not
throw a fucking tantrum like alot of let's be honest men are
doing so like.
I think that it is partlyacknowledging everybody's
humanity when it comes to sexand violence and our worst
impulses, and then also makingsure that we don't give more

(38:03):
people, give people more roomthan others based on societal
constructs.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
So we can't say, well , actually, no, it was that
right.
I don't want to correct you.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
What did I get wrong?

Speaker 2 (38:17):
I'm going to go off mic now.
Yeah, how dare you.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
How dare you?
No, no, great, it's really.
No, I mean, and I'm with you, Imean I think, sure, yeah,
uh-huh, that you know what Imean.
Like if daphne, you know,definitely stabbed me because
she was like hot flash, like I'mnot gonna be like well, you
gotta understand.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Well, listen like, yeah, I mean even along with
that though, the like the factthat nobody talked about
postpartum depression andpostpartum psychosis.
Like, yes, no, obviously Daphnecan't stab you.
I can't stab people as much asI want to.
But, and by that I mean eventhough I want to, not that I'm

(38:57):
not doing it in the volume thatI.
I'm doing some, but not enough.
But we also don't address whenit really is a problem.
So, like there's a lot to workthrough, I'm not saying that
there isn't.
I think people have really goodintentions.
It's just.
It is a matter for me ofseparating your own ego from

(39:18):
these discussions.
We are not saying you are a badguy unless you are a bad guy,
but we're not saying that you'rea bad person for feeling these
things.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
We just need to talk about the ways in which they
need to be handled so thatpeople are not injured when you
don't need to if I could readthe world of the concept of nice
guy, good guy, white, goodwhite, because it just I feel

(39:51):
like it always muddles theseconversations.
It's not a matter of nice, it'snot like.
It's like choices you're makingand if you, if you did number
five, then address that and it'snot like negating that.
You did number five becauseyou're in the nice guy category
and we do it all the time andit's totally in the way.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Pretty sure what I heard was if I could read the
world of white guys, if, wecould only read.
Oh, what a beautiful world.
It would be Thank you coach.
Thank you I know, it's not thatfar from the truth.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
We're that simple Right, but yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
Oh well, let's just try to keep violence where it
belongs, and that's only in thegray areas of playoff hockey.
It was.
It was funny because you guys,I, I, I texted these two the
other night, uh, last week, um,on Friday night, the other night
, uh, last week, um, on fridaynight, uh was friday, no,
saturday night, saturday night,the boston bruins won in

(40:50):
overtime.
Uh, it was a game, a game sevenof the opening series.
I was sure they would lose.
It was the only time in my lifeI ever yelled they won, because
I was so shocked I am, I was inmy living room, my family's
around me, I'm like they won.
They won Like, oh my God, likeI was so surprised and thrilled
and and, um, and the big joke,uh, was that, um, whoever, uh,

(41:13):
between the Bruins and theToronto Maple Leafs who the
Bruins were able to defeat, um,uh, they.
It was like sort of a, it wasacademic, because everybody knew
that the Florida Panthers, anamazing team, were waiting on
deck to destroy whichever teamlimped into the second round.

(41:34):
And then, on Monday night, I wascoming back from driving my son
home for college and watchedthe Bruins' first game against
the Panthers in Florida and Ihad.
I mentioned to him.
You know, most people thinkthat the Panthers are really
really good team.
They're favored to go, if notwin the whole thing.

(41:54):
But you know, this is thereshould be in the finals, based
on seating and that sort ofthing.
And so they scored.
First it was one, nothingagainst the Bruins.
And my son said to me he didn'tknow hockey at all.
He's like, oh sorry, dad, likethat's probably it, you know.
And then the bruins came backand and uh, scored four

(42:15):
unanswered goals and in floridatook the wind out of the the
hometown fans.
Um, but the reason I bring thisup was I said to him, if it was
two to one, if it was three toone, it's fine.
It's fine Because Panthers area very sort of very, very highly
regarded team.
Now that it gets to be four toone against these like sort of

(42:36):
scrappy upstarts, right whenit's like you're not, you
shouldn't be beating us by thismuch.
You shouldn't be beating us atall.
But by this much I't be beingus at all, but by this much I
was like someone's gonna get hit.
I just told him I was like Ipromise you, the panthers have
to now punch somebody on thecard I know, I know this is what
I'm just saying like it has.

(42:57):
There has to be some type ofscrum.
So the panthers pull theirgoalie, bruins score five to one
and immediately after that, youknow it's like a they didn't.
Actually there was no fighting.
It wasn't a fight, but it waslike a thing where guys took
whatever opportunity they couldto mix it up and let them know
like we're not going to takethis and I was like that's,
that's the but you can.

(43:17):
You can see it coming and Idon't mind channeling it into
sports as a facsimile of sort ofa more primal conflict instinct
.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
You know what I mean?
Sort of with the idea thatlet's have this venue where this
stuff is coursing, thistestosterone stuff or whatever
you want to, the equivalent interms of women's sports, own
stuff or whatever you want toyou know, for you know the the
equivalent in terms of women'ssports.
Let's have this venue where wecan get all that out so that we
can have a decent societyoutside of that venue.
Is that kind of your?

Speaker 4 (43:51):
that's the whole thing, and so, like everybody
who follows this knows, I'm ahuge, huge fan of women's sports
and I promise you it getschippy in women's sport.
I saw I saw two girls grab eachother in soccer by the Jersey
and like getting each other'sface and I was like, see that's,
it's not limited to to theworld of men, um, but it doesn't

(44:14):
.
It's not endangering anybody inthe way that like the violence
in society endangers people soum, if people so um.
If we can channel it into otherpursuits, I think it's.
I think it's healthier foreverybody.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Boss, you're gonna say something, and now I just
want to make sure to agree andalso to uh, oh god, just in case
anybody thinks women's sportscan't somehow get violent.
There was almost a fistfightone time when I was on the swim
team.
It's a no-contact sport.
How the fuck, did that happen.
But somebody got pissed offabout one of the results and
then they were shouting andyelling and Kiguri Rubix almost

(44:53):
punched a bitch in the face andwe didn't let her, we stopped
her.
But I was like we never eventouched you guys Swiped.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
The idea to me of like turning on the local news
and seeing an absolute brawlbreak out at a swim meet In a
fucking swimming pool.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
I need you to think about how terrible the punches
thrown would be in a pool.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
And.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
I have seen people play water polo before.
I know that that shit happens,but still.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
Water polo is like.
For those that don't know waterpolo before, I know that that
shit happens, but still, waterpolo is is like um.
For those that don't know waterpolo is is like um, it's super,
the devil's sport.
I don't know if anybody knowsit.
Under what you don't see, youknow they say oh, a duck
paddling underneath the water.
Their feet are going for youguys under the surface of the
water are getting punched, yeah,kicked, pulled down like trying
to half drown the other, likeit is it.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
You may have been the one who told me about this, oh
no.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
It is monstrous what happens under the surface of the
water.
It's craziness.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
It's basically like synchronized drowning almost
You're trying to get a ballaround, but people are trying to
kill you yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Synchronized drowning .
I just pictured like bob costasannouncing like after this
break we'll be going tosynchronize drowning all right
that's great no, it really is.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
Um, all right.
Well, let's move from from allof this emotional security over
to the lovely world of wayne, uh, where it's nothing, nothing
but safety and rosebuds and andand rainbows.
Um, where we left off, uh lasttime with part one.
Uh, we had discussed, uh, I'llfinish up, I'll say what, what,

(46:38):
um, uh, the, uh, we finished, we, we finished basically on a
speech, uh, fromen, uh mcnulty,uh wayne's mom, where she says
um, you don't got to treatsomeone like shit and make them
feel bad like calvin, uh, thedrug dealer in residence.
Uh, we're inferring that he's adrug dealer because of all the

(46:58):
video cameras, but they nevermentioned it.
I think that was.
Uh, we'll find out it certainlyfeels intentional, I mean yeah
there's something going on,right, yeah like he could be
like whatever, but he lets me bewho I want to be, do what I
want, just so long as my assdon't get too big.
Um, she gives wayne a candle.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Keep in your room or something, maybe you'll sleep
better by the way, I mean thecandle thing we definitely want
to get to, but I think as longas my ass don't get too big, ha
ha ha.
Like that felt to me like oneof those jokes.
That like that's not a joke.
Yeah, they have they.
They have an agreement, tacitor otherwise.
That's like you keep lookinglike a thing I want to have sex

(47:36):
with.
Yeah, right, like there's a,there's that.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, that didn't seem like a whole joke to me no,
and I also want to make sureshe was saying that Wayne Sr had
all these ideas about who sheshould be and how she should be.
It almost feels like even moreof an insult that Calvin's like
I don't care what kind of personyou are, If you're hot, that's
all I care about.
Now that wow.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
This is me like oh, I'm not tall enough for this
ride.
That went completely over my.
You're right, though.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
And I understand also that there is a little bit of
like in my relationships.
I'm like, bitch, don't try tochange me.
Like if the boyfriend was like,oh, you should really check
into finishing your CPA, I'd belike you need to fuck right off
with that.
Your cpa I'd be like you needto fuck right off with that.
But this is a different levelof I don't.

(48:29):
He doesn't care what I do orwho I am, as long as I, my ass
is good that's really veryreductive.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Yeah, I, I, um, I like that you have been hitting
this, you know pointconsistently of not telling
women what to do and I thinkagain, like in a violating
number, what?
If you're smarter than them,though, yeah, right, exactly,
but then who's gonna guide them?
But, what if?

Speaker 4 (48:55):
you're full of good advice that no one listens to
what if you're what?

Speaker 3 (48:58):
if that's the case but that is funny daphne will
and it's like an ongoing andit's very much a joke because I
duck after I say it but likeDaphne will say whatever, like
oh, I'm gonna go for a hike now,and I'll be like I think you
mean may I go for a hike now?
And she just and she turns tome- you're a brave man, and then

(49:20):
?
like yeah, believe me, it isvery clear that she does not
mean that and I that she doesnot mean that and I know she
does not mean it.
But yeah, like that is a themewe should probably be looking at
.
Like where are we, where isthat going on?
And, whether explicit or not,you know, anyway, all right.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
We cut to.
We cut to butthole Tommy Colein the car with Orlando Zellwood
.
I didn't see any signs forZellwood.
Yes, you did.
They're talking about passing asign for Zellwood.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
You pass it up.
Doesn't that mean they wereplaying a name game, though I
took that as like they wereplaying some sort of road trip
game together.
Is that not what was happening?

Speaker 4 (49:58):
They found a Z or something.
I thought it was directions.
I thought they were just tryingto figure out where they were,
but that that that would be funIf it was a road trip game.
We play a version of that whenwe're driving.
We call it car game.
It's very it's a very inventivegame where we just try to see.
Like that, whoever gets thefarthest license plate wins.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Car game is the Dave Matthews band of naming games,
that is yours.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Well, what is it?
Oh, it's Car.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Game.

Speaker 4 (50:26):
Yeah, it's Car Game.
Whose band is it?
Oh, it's.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Dave Matthews Band.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
It's Dave Matthews Band.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Yeah, it's all, it is Stayed up all night and we came
up with.
Dave Matthews Band and Car Game.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Thinking real hard.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
Oh yeah, it's white people stuff.
So, yes, I didn't see any signsand I love this.
If there's a sign, the GPS ladywould have said it and she
didn't.
And Orlando says you didn'thear it because there's no
service, which I was like, oh,that's such a great generational
thing when it's like you knowTommy Cole wouldn't have been

(51:01):
like sort of tuned into theservice area as much as like
somebody younger would have beenit was growing up with like, oh
no, my bars are how like?
my existence depends on how manybars I have.
What's the plan anyway?
We get to Ocala, he sighs, andyou know how that'll be.
Fine, wayne, I'm sure there'llbe a trail of blood.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
I laughed out loud at that line, like it's so
hardened and sarcastic.
But meanwhile he's going tofind the kid, so he obviously
cares.
You know what I mean, but yeah,it's funny.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
It's not that far from the truth, right?
He says you know you got tostay positive.
And Tommy Cole says you know, Iknew Wayne's mom back in the
day.
She kept her name when shemarried Wayne's dad.
She kept her name when shemarried Wayne's dad.
What was it?
What was it?
He's trying to remember she wasoff.
I mean, she was really kind ofscattered Great legs though.
And Orlando says what here,boss?

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Please don't tell me you're trying to hit Wayne's mom
.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
Oh, it's, yeah, I mean I love that it's the high
school student.
To the principal Like oh, oh,oh, no, you're not.
Like that's not what this isright.
Like we're not that dude, right, yeah, it's like.
No, no, no.
Is this really?

Speaker 2 (52:13):
something that is just occurring to you right now
as we're getting closer, or wasthis the plan, the whole?
Time was right was this wayhe's saying he was going for the
car and actually going for hismom?

Speaker 3 (52:22):
a hundred percent percent, actually, yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But he says no, no, it's not,she's not my type.
What type is your type?
Orlando asked him.
And what does he say here,coach?

Speaker 3 (52:35):
I only date, or better, want to date, which I
thought was funny Black women,black women.
I did not see that line coming.
I was like, oh, I'm listening.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
I was like oh.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Yeah, See, it's funny because I hadn't thought about
it in a while.
But when Orlando says for real,he kind of smiles over.
He's not like what do you mean?
It's just sort of like oh well,this is intriguing.
It's like finding out he's fromFinland, or something is
intriguing.
It's like finding out he's fromyou know, finland, or something
.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Yeah, it's like you speak dutch exactly it's like,
yeah, so I was like okay, cool.
Yeah, it's beard.
Beard speaking dutch.
Yeah, don't tell.
Don't tell jan mas um.
So orlando says what here?

Speaker 3 (53:18):
coach, you never dated a white woman before never
did a white which sonico saysoh no, thank you.
I was like what is happening inthis car right now?
And then he asked is thatracist?
And then it's funny because Ifound myself going I don't know.
And then, and then orlando saidI think it's a great piece of
dialogue.
Like I'm all, I am all over theplace in this seat, like I'm

(53:40):
like I don't know, is thatoffensive?
I don't think it's offensive.
Maybe it's offensive what?

Speaker 4 (53:43):
What Is that right Right Because it is taking race
into into into considerationwhen dating.
But he goes.
But it's a good racist rightwhich?

Speaker 3 (53:55):
is awesome.

Speaker 4 (53:57):
Is there a good I'm like right.
I mean you kind of?

Speaker 3 (54:01):
go, but I know what you mean.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Yeah, I know what you mean bythat.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
And also in the idea that race is a social construct.
It doesn't have any biologicalbasis, like if there were a
white woman who culturally fitin with the black community
would he be attracted to her.
Is it actually a skin tonething, or is it more like?
I don't like Karen's so I stayaway from white women, so I kind
of get that.

(54:24):
I do understand.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
That's kind of interesting.
I like't like Karen's so I stayaway from white women, so I
kind of get that.
I do understand.
That's kind of interesting.
I like where you're taking thatthough.
That's an interesting like ifyour vibe were of a certain
culture with that.
Yes, Right.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
That's interesting.
There's all sorts of ways whenthis can get completely fucked
and there's fetishization, jesus, of different cultures and all
that other stuff, and alsoabsolutely like weird things,
where I have heard weird dudeson the internet say like oh well
, asian women are so much moresubmissive and like that's all
kinds of fucks that is so fuckedin so many fucking ways that I

(54:54):
just, yeah, that's dark, that'snot cool, gross, that's dark
that is not tommy cole's vibe.
Tommy cole's vibe is like no, no, no, no, no.
I prefer black women towhatever Maureen McNulty is.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
Yeah Well, the people that aren't dating Karens are
really missing out, becausethey're great to date.
I'll just say that.
I'll just say that I'll put inone vote for the Karens and
dating them, because it's a lotof fun.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Sometimes you can use your Karen-ness for good.
Sometimes you can channel yourwhite woman Into reporting
Asshole accounts on Twitter Forsix weeks straight.
When you can direct it In theright way, it's not always
terrible.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
I just want to point out the talk about being racist.
I'll be the.
I'll be the last.
Uh, I'll.
I'll go down the lastacceptable racial.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
What the white man what?
Racism is acceptable.
No, no, no, no no.

Speaker 4 (55:56):
Remember when we said , uh, at the only uh, really
racist, you can legitimate,quote, unquote, legitimately
still make fun of our Irish andItalians.
Yes, so Juliana is half Irish,half Italian, so I get to make
fun of everybody, but we havethis love for what she calls the
Irish blockhead.
And I look at Michael O'Malleyin this scene, yes, and I'm like

(56:18):
look at the size of this dude'smelon and the cat it looks like
a child, yeah.
It's like a.
So for those not watching, Iremember he made fun of the dude
at the at the uh strip club.
He's like oh, let me know whenyou, when you kill jason born
because he had a fucking right.
You know, delta force jacket onthis is like a ranger operator

(56:39):
ball cap.
It's like a unmarked there's no, there's no're right, it's no
insignia.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
That's it, it is cap.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
Right, yeah, it is a cover, or they would say in the
Marines.
Right, it is a.
But he cannot.
Typically, when you wear one ofthese, you get it down sort of
near the ears.
This dude's got like this thingmay well have a propeller on
the top of it.
He cannot get it on hisbeautiful Irish cranium on this

(57:09):
board.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
That's really funny.
I've never thought about thatin my life and now I feel like
I'm going to meet some Irishperson and be like I am not
laughing at you, sir, I'm sorry,no, no, no, it's really funny,
but again when they're visiblyIrish.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Conan O'Brien can be mocked for his Irishness.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
It is fine he's so Irish and no one mocks him for
it more mercilessly than Conan.
O'brien I mean he's mercilessand it's so goddamn funny, it's
great he's got a big dome on himtoo.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yeah, it's actually good I have a head, it's a thing
I'm like oh, that's a, thing,yeah.
I get it.
I'm gonna have to go measure mybrother's heads the next time I
see him just check outseriously.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
It's how the Irish save civilization is just having
like an impenetrable skull youcan't crack it, they've tried a
lot my biking.
Ancestors tried for, for, foruh, centuries and just nothing.
Nothing works on it.
Um, but it's a good racistright, uh, and he goes again.

(58:18):
Great editing.
It's a good racist right.
They cut to orlando.
Just him in frame, thinkingabout it doesn't say anything.
He's like uh.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
But you can see his wheels turning, like his mouth
is a little bit open, like he'sreally like I don't know, Like I
do not, I'm not sure to the yesof that question, Right.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
Love it.
What was her name?
What was her name?
I was trying to think Last namewas something Irish McGinnis
Whoa Orlando.
Last name was something IrishMcGinnis Whoa Orlando says watch
out for the dog.
I did a little preview of.
I love this so much.
So this is a personal thing Iwill call out and see if there's

(58:58):
any kindred spirits out there.
When I played Dungeon CrawlerCarl, I did the opening chapter
for a very special episode.
One of the things I love mostabout the audiobook version of
that is they do exactly this,which is Michael Malli playing
Butthole.
Tommy Cole is like thinkingwhat's her name?
What's her name?
Just like we all do when wedrive.

(59:19):
We have a thought or whateverand our attention may waver just
a little bit and then you getsomeone go, orlando goes watch
out for the dog, like we didn'tsee the dog but it's the audio
cue.
So in Dungeon Crawler Carl,what they always do is like uh,
the main character, carl, waskind of got like uh, um, kind of
a deeper voice and he's alwayslike I decided to walk down and

(59:48):
see if I could scounge someforage, some holy fuck like.
And he just yells holy fuck inthe middle and I'm like oh, it's
so much fun to me, so righthere, watch out for that.
We don't see a dog.
For those not watching the showthere's no dog.
All we see is orlando's face.
And we get the audio cue.
And then we get the next shot iscuts back to Mike O'Malley,
right, screaming and starting toswerve, and then three frames

(01:00:11):
later we get a shot of a Fordheading for just the dumbest
sweetheart in the world sittingon the double yellow line.
So we're behind the dog lookingat the car approach and we see,
uh, uh, the car heading for it.
Dumb dog barks right and we geta single.

(01:00:33):
It's weird because we get theback side of the dog looking at
the car approaching.
Then we move to the subjectivecamera from the car's pov and
you get us only in frame as thedog and he goes woof just like
uh on you know the dumbestsweetheart in the world.
And then we get a overhead shotof of the car losing control

(01:00:56):
and going into the side of theroad, into the high grass.
Um, so we don't.
We we're not a hundred percentsure what's happened, but he
might go Mally, uh, by the wholetime he called he feels like
shit, did I kill another dog andif you remember earlier in the
show, this is something that'sbeen plaguing him and he gets

(01:01:18):
out of the car.
He goes no, no, no, no, no, no,no.
Where's the dog Right?
Where's the dog?
And he's looking?
No, no, no.
He walks back onto the littlesingle lane road.
Orlando says what here, coachyou?

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
don't have to worry about me, I'm good Like hello.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
Thanks bud.
Yeah, the human is fine.
Thanks for asking, right?

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
I know we've touched on it in different ways but I
think it's really solidifyingfor me here and it's the talk at
the conference.
Tommy Cole is on some leveljust clinging to the idea that
there might be some goodsomewhere on Earth.
Yeah Right, and so the dogthing is such a a fascinating

(01:02:10):
way to capture that, becausedogs are the simplicity of a dog
like even compared to whenpeople do the cat comparison
like dogs.
I just visited a friend of oursand and who has a a
two-year-old dog humongous dog,as gentle as gentle could be,
and I was like it's just purelove.
Like came to the door and Ithought was like hey, who's the

(01:02:33):
intruder?
And just trotted right past meto my friend's wife, just
because he was like mommy's home.
I was like, yeah, so there'ssomething about the purity of
that dog just sitting there andsort of barking almost like hi,
how are you car?

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
Yeah dummy Like what Woof?
What is happening?
You guys don't realize, but 25years ago he couldn't have
walked into that house that hejust mentioned.
Oh yeah, no, meanwhile I'm likehanging out with the dog.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Yeah, I was like kicking it with this dog now I
never.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I was likekicking it with this dog, now I
never, I wouldn't.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
You could have stolen all my money.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
It would have been unthinkable, Truly Like you talk
about.
We talked about heart rategoing up earlier.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
Oh yeah, Like and it could be a chihuahua.
You would see him shake Hisbody would shake yeah

(01:03:50):
no-transcript satisfactory dingto get to the next level.
It doesn't feel that way in reallife.
When you're on a, when you'retrying to level up.
In real life it's much morevague, it's much more uncertain.
You don't know when you'veactually hit the level and the
dog is a mechanism to show uswhere he is on that journey.

(01:04:14):
And it's amazing.
We see now Tommy Cole, painedand frustrated, and then he gets
down and screams.
He squats down in the middle ofthe road, right where the dog
was just as dumb as squats downin the middle of the road, right
where the dog was just as dumbas the dog in the middle of the
road.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's so nuts.
Um, it's funny because therewas a.

(01:04:35):
You don't have time forcontinuity with a budget like
this.
They probably had.
Their budget was probably 11potatoes, uh and uh.
You know whatever dirt thatSean Simmons had on Mike
O'Malley to get him to do thisrole.
And there was a shot rightbefore this where there was a
car behind them in the rearviewmirror.
They weren't the only ones onthe road.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
Really.
Yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
I mentioned it as like there's only so much you
can do.
But right now he's the only oneon the road, this road in the
middle, I mean middle of nowhere.
At least there are telephonepoles, so there's like some
civilization, but they're out inwhat they used to call EBF in
my neck of the woods.
I think we talked aboutdifferent.
What did you call out in themiddle of nowhere?
Ebf was East Bumfuck in my.

(01:05:23):
Oh sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Oh, it was.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
Ebf was East Bumfuck in my I heard it said it was
East, but what was yours Wasyours something.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
No, my mother used to say that a thing was oh my god,
Thor lives out behind God'sback.
It was like a thing everybodysaid.
But my mother used to say thatwas like one thing she said that
always made me laugh.
Never miss with that one.
Oh blah, blah, blah.
Oh, stop behind God's back.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
That's great.
Yes, some of my friends have adifferent East Bums.
What are they?
Something else, but it was likesimilar to what I did.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Bumfuck is definitely a thing around here.
I will say that this is not foreverybody in the Western
suburbs of Chicago, Everybody inthe Western suburbs of Chicago,
but specifically my friendMandy and I from high school we
used to call it Plainfield.
Whenever?
any place was out in the middleof fucking nowhere.
We'd call it Plainfield becauseone time we'd gone out with a

(01:06:16):
friend of ours.
Her name was actually MaryEllen, but we called her Melon
because that's cute.
Melon is on the phone with afriend of ours saying like yeah,
so where's the party?
Where are we going?
What are we doing?
Blah, blah, blah.
And then says to us all right,well, he knows about a party,
but it's in Plainfield.
Like do you guys know how toget there?
And Mandy and I at the sametime are like Plainfield.
Plainfield's so fucking far away, fucking Plainfield.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
And she was like go, we're like no, we don't fucking
know where plainfield is we?
Know it's fucking far away,it's fucking plainfield.
We're not going to plainfield.
No, no, I don't have a banjoand so therefore, yeah, I'm not
going.
Yeah, I know it's everybody,everybody has some version of
this.
Um, but tommy cole goes rightin the middle of the road.
Uh, uh, orlando says I guess,guess, your airbags don't work.
Huh, like that's the lastlittle button.
We don't see him, we just seethe wide shot of Tommy Cole.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
But when you first saw them in the car he was
touching his forehead Like youknow.
That thing you do where you'relike.
Am I bleeding Right?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so Ithought that was a good button
on that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
Yeah, it was good.
Now we cut to.
We're back at the meth ranchdown in Ocala.
Calvin is in frame and we hearsome random sounds of something.
We're not sure we only haveCalvin in frame.
And we see Calvin go.
What the fuck are you doing?

(01:07:45):
Right, what the fuck are youdoing?
And now we get a reverse shotof what Calvin is looking at.
And what is it here, boss?

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
That is, wayne putting up the shelves in
Calvin's man cave, which I amsaying with as much disdain as
humanly possible.

Speaker 4 (01:08:05):
Well, you look at the shitty, filthy sheetrock.
I mean I just love when theyget it right.
It's just yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
This feels like I don't know, not a sunroom.
A sunroom means a very specificthing, especially in Chicago,
where it's like the front roomof the apartment with the
windows.
This is like an out room.
It's not inside the houseExactly, it's like halfway in
between.

Speaker 4 (01:08:36):
Yeah, and it's like the spider webs have been there
so long that the spider webshave stained the.
The Xerox is so gross.
Oh, I don't know if that'spossible, but it looks like it.
So yeah, it's one of thoseshitty racked shelving systems
where you put the two sort ofthe riser pieces on the wall and

(01:09:01):
then you clamp in a couple ofsupports and you put the board
on top of it.
Really basic stuff.
And Wayne is screwing this intothe wall and he turns around
and looks at Calvin and Calvinsays anyone ask you to do that?
And Wayne says no, but sheasked you to and you know you

(01:09:23):
didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
I definitely cringed when he said that.
Like I was like oh boy, oh dear, oh dear.
Right now I don't like.
It just felt like this is notlike the.
Any idea that this was going toend without the final
confrontation between thesecharacters sort of went away
from me at that moment, like Iwas like this is a collision
course and the collision reallyis going to have to happen one

(01:09:49):
way or another.

Speaker 4 (01:09:49):
I was a little surprised that Calvin didn't
step into the room.
So I was like, oh, this isinteresting, this is an
interesting character beat wherehe's like, he walks away, and
then we cut to an extremeclose-up of a toe being painted
and we rightly guess off thecuff, the, uh, off the cuff that
it's maureen.
And so we really realize, okayquickly, that calvin is heading

(01:10:14):
to talk this out somehow and I'mlike, oh, okay, let's actually
moderately civilized.
Like you know, with calvinyou'd expect him to like just
pull out a serrated knife andstick it into the kid.
You know, you're just like Idon't have any faith that this
guy is, uh, living in the modernera.
Um, but uh, we get this shot ofmaureen's foot and calvin walks

(01:10:35):
in and, um, yeah, like where hecomes?
He comes in the, in the door tothe house, the trailer area.
So you're like, okay, yeah, theoutbuilding is the trailer area
.
So you're like, okay, yeah, theoutbuilding is the or out room,
whatever.
You're like, okay, it's notreally in the house.
And he says you see what thatfucking kid did.
And Maureen thinks he's talkingabout what fucking kid here,

(01:10:56):
boss?

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Talking about how Reggie's alligator shit on the
neighbor's lawn again.

Speaker 4 (01:11:01):
Yeah, right, the assumption is we're talking
about a kid with calvin.
We're referring to reggie.
Uh, the alligator shit on theon the neighbor's lawn again.
And, um, no, the other fuckingkid.
It's like oh, there's anotherright yeah, there's another kid.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
So one of the things I need to just double check.
I don't even know.
There are stairs behind morningshoulder.
Does this mean this is still atrailer or are we going to have
to re-envision what their houseis like because we're seeing
more parts of it now?
Is there?
Is there a two-story?
Is this underground?

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
I thought it was like a double wide with a.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Oh really, I didn't I thought they were in a
structure in the and the otherside was trailer, but maybe,
maybe, this.
Yeah, I may have just notprocessed it correctly.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
That's a good question.
Now, boss, I want to directyour attention to the key holder
behind Maureen's head, wherethere's a little Palm Sunday, a
little cross sort of tucked inthere, because this is a
God-fearing house.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
They're good Christians.
Good Christians doesn't meananything, but they are that
right not in this day and ageanyway.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
So she says, no, what ?
And he goes.
He hung up some shelves foryour fucking candle crap in my
fucking TV room.
Oh yeah, that's kind of sweet,huh, in my fucking tv room,
maureen, oh, you want me to askhim to hang your tv?
She laughs.
And then what does he do?

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
oh, that he's being unsafe pushes all the shit off
the table.
It looks like sort of, uh, notpushing at her foot but not
avoiding her foot pushing all ofthe the bottles and everything
else that's a great call out.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
Yeah, she definitely has to move to make sure she
isn't harmed by this move, buthe didn't go to hit her.

Speaker 4 (01:13:00):
You're right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
I mean, in the same way that he wasn't going to step
into the room to confront Wayneright now, he isn't going to
physically attack maureendirectly.
Uh, this was actually just athing on threads the other night
, that last night maybe that Iwas reading the ways in which
abusive men will exhibit angeror violence towards things as a

(01:13:26):
warning to the people aroundthem.

Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
Well, how are we supposed to warn you?

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Yeah exactly.
I mean I won't care.

Speaker 4 (01:13:34):
Well, who will think of the violent men Right and I
don't want to get into thespecifics, because some of them
are just like oh, that sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
But people in general will say, well, he threw
something against the wall, butthat's not violent.
Oh no, that's violent.
When Johnny Depp trashed ahotel room 30 years ago, he was
being violent and abusive.
It wasn't until many, manyyears later that we understood
the full picture of that, butthat's what he was already doing
.
That was already the MO.

Speaker 4 (01:14:02):
Yeah, whenever something gets bumped, we always
go to the big lebowski.
So, like my, my naturalreaction when he did that she
was like jesus, fucking christ.
Like you know what I mean, Iwas just joking, you know.
It was like uh, but my, my, mynatural reaction is always like
whoa, there's a beverage here.
Man, yes, like why would youhit the thing?

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
like so sorry, go ahead, coach no, no, no, I,
because I I feel like I'm gonnabe the bummer now, but it was
really and my sister helped meto see it because I, I can't,
could have.
I've done a lot of work on itin the last few years but I
could truly explosive like rage,like just freaking rage, and it

(01:14:48):
took me a long time to fullyget and respect that.
Just being in the presence ofthat kind of rage even if it's
not directed at you, like whatyou're describing, boss, I get
which is like if I'm looking atyou and I take a glass and throw
it at you, I get how that's athreat.
I get.
It is like if I'm looking atyou and I take a glass and throw
it at you, I get how that's athreat, I get it.

(01:15:08):
I do actually get that.
But I didn't get that.
Me just being in a room andbeing that fucking pissed off
about whatever was in itselfscary.
And a thing I needed to moderatebecause of that.
I a thing I needed to moderatebecause of that, like you know
what I mean, like I was like Iwasn't even fucking talking to

(01:15:29):
you was kind of my reaction andit took me years to get that
like, yeah, but it's just scaryto be around.
So anyway, a hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
I love that you brought that up.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
And so I say that because I think, yeah, did he
just hit her?
No, but do we understand thepower dynamic in this house and
how it's enforced by this moment?
Absolutely, he didn't knock hisshit over.

Speaker 4 (01:15:59):
Right, no, no for sure I'm in the same mission
here, because I have thatexplosive temper and it never.
It's never directed at people,it's always directed at like you
know a thing or something likethat.
I remember I had a friend whouses the same deodorant as me,

(01:16:20):
which is like a soft, soliddeodorant which works really
well, but you cannot get it onyour clothes, it just does not
come off.
And so this is my friendgetting ready for um, like a
very important thing.
He was invited to, like itmight have been an award
ceremony or something, and hegot a tiny bit of the deodorant
on his shirt which meant hecouldn't wear the outfit he was
wearing and they were late, andhe took the deodorant and and

(01:16:42):
slammed it on the floor andbroke the deodorant, you know,
and it went flying andsplattered deodorant and his
girlfriend at the time was likeI don't like to be around, I
don't like that.
He has that gear and I have thesame gear.
A lot of most, I think not saymost men, but a lot of men do
and so I've had to be mindful inmy own home about, like getting

(01:17:05):
frustrated with batteries orsomething like you know
something stupid, right, andit's to the point where.
So the other night I said, whenI was rooting for the Bruins
and I knew it was going to end,it was overtime, so someone's
going to score.
So I have a 10 year olddaughter and she is just like
she does not like the, the, the,the instant explosion of

(01:17:26):
unwarranted or uninvited emotion.
And so I, I before uh, you know, I did anything.
I pulled her side.
I was like, hey, I was like,come over here a sec.
I'm watching this thing.
I'm gonna yell one of two.
I will yell.
I don't mean to scare you.
I'm gonna yell yes or no, andthis is what's coming.
Where do you want to be whilethat happens?

(01:17:47):
Because I, I'm just I'm owningthe fact that it's.
You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonnasay something and I want you to
know, it's not about you, it'snot about anybody, it's just
excitement, um.
And she's like, okay, I'm gonnago sit on the stairs because I
won't, I won't hear it, great,okay, good, um, but I've had to
become mindful of that exactly.
It's not something you know,you don't, it doesn't occur to
you, especially if you're in inthat thing where you're like

(01:18:10):
smash something, right, you'relike, what do I do?
I'm not hurting anybody, I'mjust like expending energy I'm
letting it out.
It's like yeah yeah, no it'syeah, that's easy for you to say
.
You're not one of the peoplewho has to be now on guard,
right?
You know it has to modulateyour mood, or see, or start to
uh study your body language tosee if, if a fucking blow up is

(01:18:31):
imminent, you know.
So, yes, it's very, I'm sohappy you brought that up, coach
.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Thank you, yeah I, I love that you did that.
I know that.
Um, especially when I I swearloudly, I will just the exc.
It's usually fuck, it's myfavorite Fuck Whenever something
happens when I cook, especiallyat the boyfriend's house.
He, luckily, at this point hasgotten to the point where I will

(01:18:56):
shout ah fuck.
And he goes are you okay?
And I said, yeah, I did put toomuch salt in, it's fine, it's
nothing.
But there was a period where heused to say what happened,
what's wrong?
And I'm like you've known mefor so long, how do you not know
that you don't need to be thatalarmed yet?
But I needed to take it downand he needs to come up a little
bit where he felt okay with it.

(01:19:16):
He is an adult, he is mypartner.
I expected that from him.
There's a difference withparents and children.
It did remind me a little biton the Simpsons Marge drags
Homer out to the car so thatthey could have a fight, because
she says I always hated it whenI was a kid and I could hear my
parents fighting.
I remember that.
And then the kids at the windoware looking and Bart says, oh,

(01:19:37):
they're fighting in the caragain, and Lisa said that music
sends a chill down my spine.
So I feel like there are a lotof ways that this can like it
needs to be addressed always,but also there are a lot of ways
that it can sort of move thefact that you're like, hey, I'm
gonna scream and she's like cool, I'm gonna bounce to the other
room for a second.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
I feel like that is weirdly an ideal situation yeah,
I was actually sitting heregoing, you know, like, all right
back to what we were talkingabout earlier, about like, oh,
we've got this testosterone andso do we, you know, get more
people playing hockey, or youknow, do we whatever?
Or you know, maybe you know,boss takes the swim teams and we

(01:20:16):
see who ends up floating, yeah,but but I love the idea.

Speaker 4 (01:20:21):
Grease them all up and have a slap fight.
No one will no one take anydamage just just everyone
missing like crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:20:27):
But I love the idea, though, of your awareness, but
also built into that is you getyou.
You don't have to abandon yourlove of hockey and you don't
have to abandon that level ofexcitement that goes through you
.
Like, one of the things I likemost about having this office is

(01:20:49):
I watch sports in here and I ama lunatic, and it's okay
because no one can hear me, andwhen I, when some dunk happens
and I'm like, oh, like it's fine, like no one, no other human
being, is impacted by it.
but you're sort of embracing youin that situation, because I
think a lot of things we'resaying is no, men need to stop

(01:21:11):
these things and we do, but Ithink there are ways that maybe
we could understand them andmanage them more effectively,
and I feel like your story tellsthat story.

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
Yes, but hold on a second.
I have casually omitted how Igot to that, which is by being a
fucking idiot 10 or 12 timesbefore that and looking in my
daughter's eyes and seeing thatI scared her or that she's
shaking because I, you knowwhatever, because I bumped my
knee on a ladder or because Idropped something.

(01:21:41):
You know what I'm saying.
And then you go, wait, I don'twant her to feel it.
Something you know what I'msaying like.
And then you go, wait, I don'twant her to feel.
This is why, this is why youget men, at a certain age, going
as a father of daughters.
It's like, oh, now youunderstand women.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
But yes, in some, some cases, it really is the
thing that is the pivot point,and it's not good and I'm not,
I'm it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
But when people do that, I don't automatically lash
out because I go okay, well, atleast you have this opportunity
for perspective taking, andit's like I don't want my little
girl to feel she shouldn't bescared ever when I'm watching
sports, like that's not, whywould I ever?
But it only is from havingcheered at a touchdown one too

(01:22:25):
many times and look over andshe's backing away and you go oh
my God.
So it's not that I'm whatever.
I've arrived at a solution thatseems to work, but it's because
of screwing up many, many times.
Now Calvin says don't you fuckwith me.
And she says I was just playingwith you, calvin Christ, that

(01:22:49):
seems to work in there.
Like I was like oh, is he gonnanow get aggressive with her?
But he didn't.
He was like oh, okay, itsomehow mollified him in some
way, um.
And he says uh, what does hesay here, boss?
Um, once she says I was justfucking with you, what does he
say?

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
he needs to go yeah, and that's all right.
We knew at some point somebodywas gonna have to address right,
how's this gonna play out like?
So I mean, I don't, you know,I'm not a fan of calvin, but
part of me does feel like I mean, probably he really does need
to go.
I mean, this is just not.
This is not a sustainable.

Speaker 4 (01:23:26):
Well, why?
Because Calvin says it no.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
No, I'm just saying like okay, there's no way Wayne,
Reggie and Calvin are going tocoexist in a space indefinitely
without something horrible,slash violent, happening.
That's all.
That's all I mean by it.
Not that, oh, he's the king ofthe castle, I just mean like the

(01:23:49):
present arrangement of thesefour human beings sharing a roof
.
You just can't have this like.

Speaker 4 (01:23:57):
It's just not gonna end well so once, once it's a
declarative statement, like heneeds to go, I was like, oh fuck
, because now it's like shit.
Now we have to see whatmaureen's first of all.
Does she have enough control ofcalvin to have him walk that
back like, does she have enough?
How much?
How much control of thisrelationship does she have how
much?
How much?
Say, um, you know, and so she'slike, come on, cal.

(01:24:21):
Like come on, he just got here,you know.
And he's like then what Are you, are you going to?
You know he sits down.
I like this, he sits down.
He doesn't.
As bad as their relationship is, it is awful, he's not.
He's not in her face, he's notwith a finger in her, in her eye
, you know, like it's like hesits down.

Speaker 3 (01:24:52):
It's oddly a conversation, like the tenor of
it, but actually you're right,there is a.
There is a level of I hate tosay it because I'm I don't mean,
he's not that he is clearlydisrespectful, like he just
slapped his shit off the table.
So I don't want to go crazy,but I am picking up what you're
putting down, that he is askinga question here and he's going
to hear what she says, like he'snot just like ranting, like
there's an odd brand of respect.
Maybe we could.

Speaker 4 (01:25:05):
I don't know there's another word that's not respect,
but he's gonna voice thequestion.
Yeah right, no, like which I'mlike wrong, am I no boss?

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
no no, let's.
Let's hear it straight me out,boss.
This is a different form ofcoercion through belittling
rather than intimidation.
Because what he says is whatare you going to do, maureen?
You're going to take care ofthe kid.
Oh, you're capable of takingcare of a child.
And she says I was young, thenThings could be different now.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
And he says Ooh you're right, that's exactly
what he means by that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
He says you're going to be a good little fucking
mommy now.

Speaker 4 (01:25:47):
And what he is saying to her is you can't mother him,
you are not equipped to do it,and he doesn't mean that in a
way where he is meeting her ather level where he's saying like
no, yeah oh, no, no, no, no,but I was like I guess I, I
guess, yes, that I was like inhim sitting he has removed the
threat of imminent physicalviolence and at least like, okay
, if he's going to belittle her,yes, like whatever.
But I thought, oh, I hadn'teven given him that much credit.
I okay if he's going tobelittle her, yes, like whatever
.
But I thought, oh, I hadn'teven given him that much credit.

(01:26:09):
I was like, oh no, he's such abarbarian, he's such an oaf,
he's such a troglodyte that likehe only knows force.
But now, but he also has thisother gear of manipulation.
And coercion.
He's going to be a good littleTommy right now is so
destructive and cruel.
Yeah, move him into my fuckingTV room.
Yeah, it's not that you'vehighlighted it too.

Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
There's a there's, and few things are as damaging
as shame and to have been the,the, the conspirator in the
crime that he is now fuckinghurling at her.

(01:26:51):
Yeah, thanks for opening me upa little there.
I was thinking of right wherewe were.
But you're right, that is whatthis is.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
This is any guy who has ever made out with somebody
else's girlfriend and then, ifthey start dating, he will every
time say, oh, are you going tocheat on me like you cheated on
him?
That's what this is yeah, good,call um.

Speaker 4 (01:27:16):
So now the ultimatum is there and she, and he has
shamed her, he has belittled her, he has um mocked her.
And she said uh, regardless ofhow inconvenient this might be
for you, he's still my fuckingkid, which is I was like, wow,

(01:27:37):
hmm, I did not know that Maureenhad that sort of like she.
She dug her heels in a littlebit and she pushed back and I
was like like, okay, all right,well, how's this gonna go?
Uh, calvin says I pay the bills.
Okay, your part-time candlewickfucking bullshit ain't enough
to support you or him.
Uh, so you got two fuckingchoices get him the fuck out of

(01:28:00):
here or you get the fuck out ofhere with it In the spirit of
what was just highlighted.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
As we talk about some things that are happening,
particularly in the UnitedStates of America these days,
and people have been referencing, like you know, in the not too
distant past, women couldn'teven have bank accounts or
credit cards in this fuckingcountry.
This is definitely like a thirdlevel of coercion.
So now, I hadn't seen the scenethis way.
But if, in terms of um, allright, or quickly, when you

(01:28:36):
direct, a lot of times whatyou'll talk to actors about is
is intention, right, so like,what are you trying to do in
this scene?
Right, and then things get inthe.
So he comes in and first it'sI'm going to break all this shit
, and then that isn't quitegetting what I want.
Hmm, ok, what will I try?

(01:28:56):
Ok.
I'm going to sit down now andact calm, but I'm going to shame
you.
Hmm, that's not quite workingeither.
All right, I'm going to tryanother thing.
Hmm, that's not quite workingeither.
All right, I'm gonna tryanother thing.
I'm going to threaten yourability to survive if you choose
this kid over me right now.
I am how you eat, I am howthere's a roof over your head, I

(01:29:18):
am how you survive.
So it's actually the entirescene.
Is him coercing her to get ridof her own child again?

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
yep, by the way and also I love that you broke it
down in terms of he wasn'tgetting the reaction that he
wanted.
She, he was physically violent.
She said, jesus, I was joking,she didn't seem.
I mean, she seemed unsettled,but she wasn't cowering right,
she was like oh oh my god, I'lljust tell him to go.
And when he says you can't takecare of her, she says well, no,
actually I can.

(01:29:50):
And so then he uses this tacticinstead to see what he could
get.

Speaker 4 (01:29:55):
He threatens her life , her existence, her safety.
So it's him or you, so decidewhich one you want, which is
really great.
And we get a shot of herhearing that and considering it.
And we cut back to Tommy Cole.
Now he is sitting on the roadon the dividing line.

(01:30:20):
There's a double yellow.
Oh, this one's a single yellow.
Actually, it's one of thoseones where one of the yellows is
painted out and he says I'mgoddamn cursed Before you move
on from there.

Speaker 3 (01:30:36):
The cut, I think, is worth looking at just visually.
What's done?
Maureen sort of rolls her eyes,has smiles like now this is a
problem, and a little bit of thebubble over her head is like to
me.
Men, right, but Tommy Cole isextremely small in the next

(01:30:59):
frame.
We were all the way up inMaureen's face and he's all the
way deep in that space and he'sin what would have been the
negative space in her frame.
So it's interesting.
I don't know what we're doing,connecting them exactly, but
there's definitely somethingvisually going on about the
experiences they're having.
And I'm imagining in some waysTommy Cole.

(01:31:19):
I'm just as I'm walking throughthis, Tommy Cole is expressing
her thought bubble I'm goddamn.
I gave up my kid because I wasmarried to the kind of guy who
just goes to pick up hockeygames and ends up coming home
with teeth missing.
And then my kid finds me andnow I have to choose between

(01:31:41):
giving up my kid again orbecoming homeless in the next
hour.
So I'm goddamn cursed betweengiving up my kid again or
becoming homeless in the nexthour, Right?
So I'm goddamn cursed.
You know, it's kind of the endof that scene as well as the
beginning of the next scene as Iwalk through it.

Speaker 4 (01:31:55):
Well said, well said.
Uh, tommy Cole says I'm on amission to save Wayne.
Uh, somebody should be savinghim from me.
Uh, remember that scene fromterminated too, when all the
innocent kids are on theplayground and then this nuclear
bomb detonates into a wave ofhellfire and just scorches
everyone and everything into ashand skeletons.
He says that you know, I'm thenuclear bomb in terminator 2

(01:32:23):
what meanwhile orlando was likelooking through yeah for sure,
right.
Orlando's like looking throughthe, the glove compartment,
looking orlando's like actuallylooking to figure out this
situation.
And he is law.
Tommy cole is lost in a shamecycle.
Um, just considering theirsituation and his role in it, it
does a good job.

(01:32:43):
Michael Balli is always good.
He says I got nothing left.
He's like close to a panicattack.
You know the way he's doing,like really heavy breathing,
he's got his brows furrowed.
He's really sort of overlystressed in this scene and I got

(01:33:04):
nothing left.
And orlando in the background.
It's just a great shot.
Like uh, cinematographer'slooking for depth over uh, tommy
cole's shoulder.
We see orlando stand up in thelike on the seat of his car in
the passenger side and he goeshey, you got triple a and oh,
there's a glimmer of hope.

(01:33:24):
Triple a right and I loved thisso much, just as a as a reveal,
as a character insight.

Speaker 3 (01:33:32):
Tommy cole says no, they expired a long time ago it
doesn't feel like we're talkingabout triple a, does it?
I mean?
I really I mean some reallygood writing going on here yeah,
it's amazing, it's amazing alsoreally great characterization
because orlando knows how tohandle a crisis.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
Because yes tommy cole is.
I'm not saying he's wrong too,but he's sitting in the middle
of the road catastrophizingbecause not everything is going
to.
We can figure this shit out,tommy, but you need to get out
of the middle of the road, andthat's exactly what orlando's
doing, because he knows how totake care of his grandma because
he's had to do that with hisgrandma right, so he is going to

(01:34:14):
problem solve even while tommyis spiraling out in the middle
of the road absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:34:20):
I also think that the the tommy cole side of this
conversation.
I'm sure most people do, butthere are these moments in life
where you feel like you've gotyou know whether you call it.
Oh uh, actually that came upbetween may and um keely, right
like what?
What's the opposite of midastouch?
I remember hearing it calledthe bird is my touch or whatever

(01:34:42):
, like people say different ways.
But when you feel like that,like there's no point in looking
for the triple a card, likeyou're convinced that, like if I
even had triple a, the phoneswould be down today or someone
would have blown up the office,like I am just doomed, the
universe hates me, and when youfeel like it's very you know so

(01:35:06):
you feel like it looks for himto be sitting in the middle of
this road.

Speaker 4 (01:35:10):
Absolutely right.
Well said, coach.
It's always darkest before thedawn, and he is.
He is absolutely miserable.
And then low hark, but lightfrom yonder window breaks.
What do we hear but a dog barkand love their.

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):
They're all.
Here's the thing.
The whole time here, becauseI'm not always ahead of this
show, because it's very wellwritten, but I went like where's
the dog?
I said it out loud, I was likeyeah, where's the?
Dog he's like I must havekilled it.
I'm like, but if you did,where's the dog?

Speaker 4 (01:35:46):
so I was glad I wouldn't know the dog barked dog
barks, tommy cole's head turnsand, uh, I I'm instructed by by
um, several of my, uh, closefriends never to compare,
compare a black man to a, um toan animal.
But I will say that thecharacter of, or did have a mere
cat quality to him, of poppingup, yeah.

(01:36:07):
It was like it was so good, itwas so effective.
Because he pops up into frameand he's like looking left and
right, like, and Tommy's likewas that you?
Yeah, yeah, I was barking.
He's like no man.
He's like that wasn't you.
And he's like no man, he's likethat wasn't you.
And so now Tommy's up lookingaround, they're trying to hear,

(01:36:29):
and he goes, hey, doggy, doggy,doggy, doggy.
And tries to find the dog.
And then we cut Hope, hope,right, so hope that kills you,
coach, oh my goodness.
So now we cut to Del, um, dellwaking up at the at the
community pool, and we rememberthat she, uh, that the nice

(01:36:53):
security guard had at leastgiven her some kickboards and
towels and things to sleepbehind a shelving unit.
Um, and now we see Dell, uh, wesee her high tops in frame as
she gets up and there's a littlemommy and me sort of swim class
where a lot of, a lot ofnewborns in the water, literally
no, it's like 18 months andyounger kind of size of the
babies, and they're in the waterwith the moms and Dell walks

(01:37:19):
out to this and sort of sits andwatches as the kids are uh,
sort of kicking around and dellsits on some some like plastic
chair, like a stand of plasticchairs.
Um, and right away she, she'snot there for more than a second
before the lifeguard pointsthis, uh, pulls the security

(01:37:39):
guard in, the same securityguard from the night before, and
points to Dell.
And Dell is just sort ofwistfully watching the moms and
the children because I mean, itcouldn't be more on the nose
Right.
But she, she does not have thistype of security and and maybe
hasn't ever had this type ofsecurity.

(01:38:00):
It's funny, yeah, it's, it's.
It's just it's hard.
When you know people who don'thave good moms or have moms that
whatever, um, they um, you canbreak your heart when they say
like, uh, there's a thing one ofmy close friends does where

(01:38:20):
she's like she was talking aboutoh, I want her to be my mom,
because I know she's got a likea brutal mom and you know, and
um, she'll say like, she'll see,like a singer she likes, or
she'll see, she'll see someoneon the subway and she's like, oh
god, I wish that was my mom.
It's like a, it's like athrough line for her whole life,
like the search for that typeof love you know um.

(01:38:41):
So the security guard comes upto her and she says it's time
for you to go.
And Dell, this is, this isinteresting because up till this
point I think I've alwaysagreed with most.
I mean not necessarily, uh,penciling all the blood bags,
but, um, I've understood whereAdele is coming from.
Uh, so she kind of gets rightup to Adele and says you have to

(01:39:05):
go, it's time for you to go,and Adele.
Instead of reacting to that,adele just leans back in the
chair and looks at her.

Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
She, it's like the look up is almost like gonna
make me huh, like it feels likewe've all seen versions of a
scene.
Okay, the equivalent to thisfor of this for me is like the
guy and I wish I could think ofa good example in a movie but
the guy who's hit whatever rockbottom moment and heads to a bar

(01:39:42):
and intentionally like bumpsthe shit out of the guy next to
him and you're like, oh, thishappened in six feet under, for
sure.
And I just you know, like youjust get the sense.
Like, oh, this is likebasically suicide by proxy.
Like you're, you're, oh, I see.
And it felt like that's becauseI'm like you.

(01:40:02):
This lady's got to get you tofuck out of there.
Certainly you don't think youcan whoop her ass.
She is significantly fuckingbigger than you.
So what are we doing right now?
And it just felt like she waslike this is my mood and I don't
give a fuck about anything, andso all right.

Speaker 4 (01:40:18):
So here's how yes for sure, coach.
Here's how I read it.
First of all I thought if thisisn't Bobby Lucetti's daughter,
I don't know who it is.
Oh for sure.
Right, like, right away, assoon as the security guard took
that posture, it made the likedemand, like now it's time for
you to go.
I was like, okay, first of all,I think this is ODD
oppositional defiant disorderdisorder.

(01:40:46):
So she has established what shewants to be done, which gives
Dell the avenue to immediatelyknow exactly what not to do.
Oppositional defiant disorder isa type of behavior disorder
mostly diagnosed in childhood.
Children with ODD show apattern of uncooperative,
defiant and hostile behaviortoward peers, parents, teachers
and other authority figures.
They're more troubling toothers than they are to
themselves, which I chuckledwhen I read that.

(01:41:07):
Um, so sorry for everyone who'shad to deal with me over the
years.
I'm sure I got a, got a littlesmattering of the odd um I know
my mom has it, I've mentionedthis before and say like, oh
yeah, you know she'll, she'll dosomething a bit great.
Just please don't cut thatstring there.
And as soon as you turn it back, the first thing that's going
to get done.
And you're like how it'spsychotic.

(01:41:29):
You can set your watch to it.
So you should make sure neverto tell her that what's the
thing to trigger you, what's theone thing she can do, and just
don't ever mention that to her.
And I've taught my kids thatlike don't ever say the one
thing because she'll do it.
Um, so dell sits back and thenwe get the episode title.
She says to the security guardwhat boss thought we was friends

(01:41:51):
.
Yeah, I thought we was.
Thought we was friends.
And security guard says you'reskeeving out the moms.

Speaker 3 (01:41:57):
The only thing worse than an angry white woman is an
angry white woman with a baby II like this part too, because
she's like look, as far as I'mconcerned, you can live in this
motherfucker.
You can't fuck up my situation.
You are officially fucking upmy situation now, so sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:42:14):
She's got her good chinos on.

Speaker 2 (01:42:15):
She says I ain't losing my job over this.
I will say not that I find itunbelievable, but I didn't
immediately think, oh, of coursethe white woman in the pool
would hate Del.
I sort of imagined if therewere moms in the pool and they
saw a 16 year old girl staringwistfully at them playing with

(01:42:36):
their babies.
I I didn't get the immediate.
There might be one Karen inthat pool that complained.
I can't imagine that everysingle one of them was like oh
no, that teenager, that teenageris going to steal our babies
Like I would be more inclined tothink she's here trying to get
babysitting jobs than anythingelse.

Speaker 3 (01:42:51):
Not that she's a.
Well, it's interesting though,because I thought the complaint
I thought had a frame ittimeline wise, I thought
complaint complaint dell awakessecurity guard comes in like I
didn't think, right, you knowwhat I'm saying, so I think
there's a girl asleep over there.

Speaker 4 (01:43:12):
It's freaking me which is yeah, so I but.

Speaker 3 (01:43:15):
But.
But I hear you though that,yeah, yeah, that's the most
threatening person to handlethat runaway?

Speaker 4 (01:43:21):
um, the security guard says come on, now, be cool
.
Dell just like slowly gets up.
I don't want to escort you fromthe premises, she says.
And then she reaches towarddell and again bobby luchetti to
a t.

Speaker 3 (01:43:34):
Dell throws her hand off and goes don't fucking touch
me which, when you're filledwith this kind of, this kind of
I'll call it energy, I meanthere is a rage, for in this
moment, I think there's a lot ofemotions going on inside of
Dell, for good reason.
Frankly, that don't touch me.

(01:43:57):
Don't fucking touch me.

Speaker 4 (01:44:00):
Don't fucking touch me.

Speaker 3 (01:44:00):
In front of all the moms, Right, but it's like she
knows in her heart right now,like whatever truth serum we
could provide at the moment, sheknows this woman is not against
her.
She knows this woman isn'treaching out because she's going
to try to like, put her in somechicken wing and toss her off.

(01:44:23):
Right, Like she knows that.
But where do I put all of thisIs what I get from this scene In
part.
The defiance and the behavioris like I am to the fucking brim
with all this fucked up emotionand you're standing here and
that's it.

(01:44:43):
That's all you did to get it.
Because it's clear, this womanis like please don't make me do
anything.
You or I don't want, but she'sgoing to force it Because she
needs to get some of this out.

Speaker 4 (01:44:58):
And sometimes, when you're in this sort of fugue
state, negative attention isbetter than no attention.
So she's oh, you need to go now.
Like she's like, all right,fine, you're gonna pull that
shit, you gotta go.
So dell walks past her and sortof heads like like she's gonna

(01:45:19):
go out, and then walks with allher sneakers on everything right
into the pool, right towardsthe moms.
They all back away.

Speaker 3 (01:45:28):
Del turns by the way, I know they referred to as
karen's earlier, or potentialkaren's.
In fairness, in fairness, ohyeah if somebody did this shit,
I would be grabbing my kid oh100 away what?
Yes I would in what?
Yes, in fairness.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
I would say like, personally, I would not feel
concerned when I saw the teenagegirl Once she got into the.
Not even that she is a danger,but there's some shit happening.
People don't get into poolsfully closed when everything is
normal, like at this point.
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:46:00):
So, boss, what does she do?
She walks up close, she walksup, she does the funniest
fucking thing I've ever seen inmy entire goddamn life.

Speaker 2 (01:46:06):
I left so fucking hard.
She walks into the pool fullyclothed, she turns around and
then she squats like so that hershoulders are fully under the
water all the way down and thesecurity guard goes did you just
piss in my motherfucking pool?

Speaker 4 (01:46:21):
Yes, yes, she did.
She makes eye contact with her,while she doesn't it is such a
fucking power move.

Speaker 2 (01:46:27):
It was so goddamn funny.
I think I've mentioned on herebefore about um helping my uh,
one of the younger now she's 10,my sister's younger daughter
when she was potty trained shestill needed some help.
She was three or whatever, andI'm I'm an aunt.
I've been around babies.
I don't mind poop, but when Iwas in there with her one time
it wasn't just that she wasmaking eye contact, that she was

(01:46:50):
making eye contact andnarrating, and I was like audrey
, sweetheart, love of my life, Ineed you to not do that.
It's so weird.
Please don't do that to me.
Oh, my god, ah, jesus, she'sthe fucking best I love her.

Speaker 3 (01:47:09):
But no, and, by the way, I think you thought of that
moment for, yes, the obvious,but also beyond that, this is
toddler-esque.
Yes, yeah, there's so little atoddler controls that that
becomes a way to like say fuckyou people.
Yeah, like I am gonna put shitin my hand and put it on the

(01:47:32):
wall like I'm just like it's allI control and this is the end
of like dell's road.

Speaker 4 (01:47:39):
Yeah, yeah, also again in the in the uh, in the
interest of saying like, like,oh.
What are the triggers?
This is Del being like I knowyou've got your good chinos on
and I am going to make you, I'mgoing to make you ruin them.
So how can I do that?
And she squats in the pool, shepees staring at her and the

(01:47:59):
security guard says what here,coach?

Speaker 3 (01:48:02):
I'll fuck you for this.
Oh, man Did she say I'll, or isit?
I'll, I'll, I'll fuck you forthis.
I'll fuck you for this.

Speaker 4 (01:48:11):
Her job is on the line.
I mean this is bad.

Speaker 3 (01:48:15):
What's she going to do?
Leave her in there.
There's clearly an unwellperson on the premise that
you've got to do it, and sheknows that Del did this to make
her ruin.
It's like what you said aboutyour mom, right, like, oh, I
fucked up and told you aboutmachinos.

Speaker 4 (01:48:33):
Yes, that's it you know, I know now, I know exactly
what the trigger is now I'mgonna make like usually I feel
like my off ramps are you.

Speaker 3 (01:48:43):
They may take us off course, but they're at least in
the vicinity I'm doing.
This is a hard turn here.
This is like Bruckheimer carchase kind of turn.
But this past weekend there wasan epic and I'm not kidding
when I say this historic in thein the context of rap music and

(01:49:06):
hip-hop music battle between nowait, hold on one sec, hold on,
hold on.

Speaker 4 (01:49:12):
Actually, coach, I want to stop you quickly, okay,
because I was kind of hoping youwould host a very special
episode.

Speaker 3 (01:49:19):
Seriously, yeah, seriously, because I will,
because I it like I serious,yeah, when I use the word
historic, like I'm not beinglike ha ha ha.
Like I'm like I am turning 52this year, rap is turning 51
this year, so like I need peopleto understand.
Like this is my music, this islike my life on in sound and I

(01:49:45):
have been around for all themajor rap beefs and it's a thing
and I remember them all and Iremember taking sides of them
and it this was amazing like afriend of mine said to me on
saturday morning because Ihadn't heard everything yet, but
I knew something was happeningand I was like I gotta go listen
.
And he said to me unironicallyand I now agree with him, that

(01:50:09):
was the greatest night in thehistory of hip-hop.
And I was like, wow, it wasn'tmeant to be.
Like, oh, it was the greatestnight ever.
He was like, no, no, seriously,that was amazing, what the fuck
just happened.
So I would be happy to do thatepisode.

Speaker 4 (01:50:26):
Yeah, no, that deserves its own episode and I
would like to know more.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Because we'rethe same age, but my hip hop is
called Barry Manilow.
That's really funny, and so Iwas raised.
It was different music.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
I mean you couldn't even go for like Nelly Coolio.

Speaker 4 (01:50:47):
I can't even.

Speaker 3 (01:50:50):
I love boss trying to negotiate it.
She's like alright, I get it.
What about like?

Speaker 4 (01:50:54):
Nancy, regulators mount up.
No, nothing, I mean.
Nope, it's all Neil Diamond,sorry, okay so.

Speaker 2 (01:51:04):
Just real quick.
What about how, when ElizabethWarren was running for president
, her fans refer to themselvesas Warren's regulators.

Speaker 3 (01:51:15):
Yeah.
Yes, I didn't remember that,but that's funny Because you
want so much more regulation.

Speaker 2 (01:51:20):
And yes, yes, we do.

Speaker 3 (01:51:22):
I think they might have even said no, it works.

Speaker 4 (01:51:29):
Warren E's regulators .
It was a little bit off, but Iloved it.
It's, it's funny, I like it.

Speaker 3 (01:51:32):
She's, she's, I love her so much, but she's been
president.
Do you know how different theentire world would be right?

Speaker 4 (01:51:35):
now, god, my god, we're so stupid as a people
anyway.
Okay, uh, so we cut to wayne.
Um, coach, we got to do thatfor, for real, we're going to do
that.
Um, uh.
So, uh, wayne, uh, wayne is nowum loading up the candles onto
the shelves that he's installedand um, like a good boy, he's

(01:51:56):
trying to kind of do somethingnice, uh, and in comes, uh,
maureen and boss.
I want you to walk us throughthis, please.

Speaker 2 (01:52:07):
I guess.
So that's going to be so muchrage.
So she comes in.
She says Reggie locked himselfin the bathroom again.

Speaker 4 (01:52:17):
She said I heard all this pounding, oh yeah yeah,
yeah, reggie locked himself inthe bathroom again.

Speaker 2 (01:52:21):
Not what happened, but that's fine.
She says glad to see somebody'sactually doing some work in
here.
What I'm so impressed.
And he says I'm just trying todo my part.
Says come on, this looks reallygood.
And he is beaming at her, superexcited, very happy that he,
that she is pleased with it.
Wow, wow, wow, she says.

(01:52:42):
And then she walks over to theshelves to look at the candles.
Yeah, and then it startsbecoming obvious that there's
something else that needs to betalked about.
She says so tomorrow's thethird day of the month and
that's when I take everythingdown to the big swap meet in
Tampa and I got to get ready forthat.
And he says I could help youwith it, super eager.

(01:53:05):
And she says oh, no, no, no,it's okay, you've done enough.
He starts like grabbing some ofthe candles you've done so much
around here and as he's helpingher, says uh, I just gotta
separate.
I just gotta separate theerotic from the non-erotic for
the candles and he says whatdoes nipple smell like?
She says it smells like peach.

Speaker 4 (01:53:25):
Throw back to the they're just different, they're
all the same they're all justpeach they're all just peach,
every one, every single one,except the tree one, the woodsy
one.

Speaker 2 (01:53:34):
She says, yeah, I just um, I gotta find my ribbons
, you know, I gotta, I gottastart, uh, loading up the car,
so you know.
And he says are you mad?
Yeah, he realizes that thatmoment, yeah, like things are
going a different way well, whenpeople say things like oh, like
, I'm sorry, I just I'm so busyI have to find my ribbons, like

(01:53:56):
that's no, you don't.

Speaker 4 (01:53:57):
Well that's valid no that is valid.
I think there's there I think Itold you when, when my dad used
to say he has to tie up themilk.
Do you remember that it was?
I don't know.
I've told you when my dad usedto say he has to tie up the milk
.
Do you?

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
remember that I don't know.
He has to tie up the milk.

Speaker 4 (01:54:07):
I've told you this definitely on the podcast before
.

Speaker 3 (01:54:09):
Really it's a big thing in our family.

Speaker 4 (01:54:10):
He'd say, oh yeah, I got to go.
I would say like he'd say, oh,come on, help me work on the car
.
And I'd be like, no, I got to.
And and I'd be like what?
And he'd say, when you don'twant to do something, one excuse
is as good as another.

Speaker 2 (01:54:23):
Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (01:54:24):
Oh.
I got to wash.
It's like ribbons.

Speaker 2 (01:54:26):
I can't go out with you.
I have to wash my hair, that's.

Speaker 4 (01:54:29):
Right, Mm-hmm Right.
So he says are you mad?

Speaker 2 (01:54:32):
She says what no she's not mad that I unpack?
No, no, no, I'm not mad, it'sjust I gotta, you know, I just
gotta get moving, is all she.
She doesn't want to address itexactly uh, he says what are you
coming?
Back, yeah, and she says, aftersort of avoiding him, yeah, um,

(01:54:58):
so that's the thing when I go,you gotta go too.
And she's still packing up thecandles.
And then she says did you?
Did you think you were likegonna stay here?

Speaker 4 (01:55:14):
stay here you thought yeah, you thought you was gonna
stay here, stay here yep, thankyou for making it, coach.

Speaker 3 (01:55:23):
That's the exact.
That is the entire sound for meand this scene, like the whole
time I was like, this is aboutas painful like this, is on a
short list of the most painfulscenes I've ever watched, even
to the point of he keepscrossing to her and she keeps
moving away it's just like, oh,this is so painful, this is so

(01:55:44):
hard, and I did feel for herhere.
Ultimately, I think there's abit of judgment.
I do give her love in thisscene, but I did feel like
you're protecting, you're stillprotecting Calvin, or if it's

(01:56:05):
not protecting him you're, she'schoosing him.
And I think in a way, like,look, I can't leave you here.
Calvin is you know, and thebottom line is it's you know,
like why, allow Wayne to believeyou want him to go.
I get why.

(01:56:26):
But also I'm like don't makethis kid relive the trauma of
you tossing him aside.
But I knew it was gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (01:56:34):
It was so painful it's if anyone who took psych
101 uh read about the harryharlow experiment, which was the
rhesus monkeys that one hadcuddly.
It's about attachment inchildren and one had a, uh yeah
soft cuddly, uh mother figure toattach to, and the other one
had just like a wire frame, um,and I was like watching that in

(01:56:57):
in this she's like, oh my god,he was hoping he had, yeah, you
know, found some.
He's being abandoned in frontof our very eyes.
She says, okay, yeah, I mean,if it was my house, of course,
sure, but it's Calvin, so Idon't really have that kind of
say Go ahead, boss.

(01:57:19):
What else does she say?

Speaker 2 (01:57:20):
She says plus, I don't think you really want to
stay here, right?
Which means it's everybody'sfault except for hers.
Calvin doesn't want you to stay.
I can't say that you get tostay.
You probably don't want to.
She in fact says you know, Idon't make the decisions, honey.

Speaker 3 (01:57:38):
But she yes, she is absolving herself.
So I'm glad you pointed thatout.
It also strikes me in thisscene that her life consists of
figuring out how to navigate men.
No-transcript.

(01:58:06):
But look, even now.
Look at the way she smiles andshe comes in with a joke.

Speaker 4 (01:58:14):
Yeah well, she says like you don't want to stay here
, you know, come on, it's notlike you want to stay, like rent
.
You want to live in the samehouse?
Come on, we all know that'slike.
I want to live in the same.
Come on, like, we all knowthat's like.
Uh, I want to point out um, Ialways I one of the hills I'll
always die on is that comedy isharder than drama.
Um, and this is why michaelawatkins, who plays maureen
mcnalty, gets a lot of creditfor how funny she is.

(01:58:34):
But this is, this is great act.
I mean, this is so brutal, thisis so brutal, it is so brutal
to to do this.
I mean, like, you watch thisscene and you feel something die
inside of you.
I can only imagine like actingin this scene.
I don't make the decisions,honey, like.
And then wayne said this iscoach.

(01:58:55):
What does wayne say to that?
This, this is really, reallybrutal.
She's okay, sweetie, I don'tmake those decisions.
And then wayne says what.

Speaker 3 (01:59:04):
You shouldn't call me that, no more.
And I was like oh dear what hesaid I was.
I didn't know where the scenewas going after that line, but I
did like kind of wince, likeyeah, and he's.
I mean, the pain on his face isjust, oh, he's not facing her.

Speaker 4 (01:59:22):
He's's looking away, but you see a huge I mean just a
tremendous amount of respectfor Mark McKenna, who plays
Wayne, To be able to go fromthat childlike, innocent face
you can convey a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:59:35):
Did you like the shows, Mommy?
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:59:37):
All is bought.
His whole demeanor changes, hisfacial expression changes, his
physicality changes uh, heshouldn't call me that no more.
She's um in the background, butshe's out of focus and we watch
him process this.
He's starting to breathe heavy,he's fighting back tears and
then she walks the door and shesays I could not believe that

(02:00:01):
they wrote this.
Was was so like.
If you're writing this, you'relike the most wicked person ever
, boss.
What does she say on the wayshe turns, go to the door and
then looks back at him and thenwhat does she say Boss?

Speaker 2 (02:00:13):
Maybe you should have gone after that girl.
Huh, yeah, you mean the girl.

Speaker 3 (02:00:19):
I am separated from because I chose you, that girl.
Is that the girl I should havegone after?
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (02:00:27):
So there's so much that's happening in this scene,
the way that she is absolvingherself of it, the way that she
is making him equal to her inthis decision, and it's like, oh
well, you don't want to stayhere, you want to be someplace
else.
Where the fuck else he's goingto be, because he's a 16 year
old kid with no money and nomode of transportation, who the
fuck knows?

(02:00:47):
But she's saying, oh, I don'twant you here, but you don't
want to be here.
So we're basically the same andthere's um god, there's this
absolutely blisteringlyhilarious line in it's always
sunny in ph Philadelphia, whereMac is like trying to say
something to the group andDennis, out of nowhere,
maniacally shouts look at mewhen you're talking to me Like

(02:01:11):
so pissed off that Mac won'thave the fucking decency, the
goddamn spine, to address himdirectly when he's talking this
shit.
And it's what I kept thinkingthe whole time that she was
doing this.
Like, fucking, look at him.
When you're talking to him,what you are.
You are so slimy right now inthe way that you're trying to
get away with this and then tomake that joke at the end to be

(02:01:33):
oh well, you probably shouldhave gone after her like what
the fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (02:01:40):
it's, but what is she talking about?
Because we know that she wantsWayne Sr to come after her, or
did she?
There's a lot going on, as yousaid, in this scene he says what
do you care?

Speaker 4 (02:01:56):
and then he says you don't even like her.
She'll be best friends, though,seeing as how you both like
taking off on everybody.
And she says I've thought a lotabout what would have happened,
okay, if things had beendifferent, which at least she is
looking him in the eye rightnow.
But she says what here boss?

Speaker 2 (02:02:16):
But your dad never came after me and he says maybe
because he didn't have a car.

Speaker 3 (02:02:25):
I mean, we're here now.

Speaker 2 (02:02:29):
And it's oh my God, there's, there's, this is.
I knew that it was going tobreak bad.
I knew that it wasn't going toturn out well.

Speaker 4 (02:02:38):
I thought that he was going to be perfect.

Speaker 2 (02:02:42):
I was really banking on.
He would eventually realizethat she was not going to ever
be the mom that he wanted and hewas going to leave.
I was hoping that would havebeen.
That would have been best casescenario.
This is fucking brutal in amillion different ways.
The act of choosing yourpartner over your child is so

(02:03:05):
wildly destructive.
I know it happens all thefucking time.
I understand how much ithappens.
It is still like there is verylittle you could do to your kid.
That's worse than that and Ithink we're going to see in the
next couple of scenes and we'lltalk about and compare.
But even at times, beating theever-loving shit out of them

(02:03:25):
isn't as painful as saying I amnot choosing you like.
What she said was he makes thedecisions, I can't do anything
about it.
You don't want to stay here.
And also, if your dad had donethings differently, then maybe I
wouldn't have left you.
Well, you're, you left.

Speaker 3 (02:03:42):
You did leave it doesn't matter what wayne's dad
did also.
I think it, it, it and I don'twant to re-litigate this part.
Um, I think we think wediscussed it pretty thoroughly,
but in terms of like well, sheleft, what was the story with
wayne senior?
Was there all of that?
Right, it was undone for me abit with your dad didn't come

(02:04:07):
after me, like it was almostlike she took off with the car
and the dude to make him comeafter, like it was a part of
some bizarre dance that then hedidn't pass.
So then she ended up stuck withcalvin in the car in Ocala.
I don't know, it's dark, it'sdark.

Speaker 2 (02:04:27):
It's super dark.
I think also you know we talk alot about how hurt people hurt
people and you want tounderstand where Maureen was
coming from, that she was in amarriage where she wasn't happy,
that she felt like she couldn'tbe content and comfortable in

(02:04:47):
her home because Wayne Sr wasalways trying to make her be
something that she wasn't.
I'm not saying that that was agood situation, but the fact
that somebody has abused you, itnever means that you can't
abuse other people, nor does itmean that you're actually that
good at being a good person,Like there might be a reason why

(02:05:10):
you can't do something well,but also you might just be a
shitty mom.
Maybe it's that Wayne abusedher, Maybe she was just always a
shitty mom.

Speaker 4 (02:05:22):
I doubt it.
I mean she looks like a prettygreat mom here I mean?

Speaker 3 (02:05:25):
I mean, let's ask what the hammer and the uh, the
shiner?

Speaker 2 (02:05:31):
the fucking shiner.

Speaker 3 (02:05:32):
Yeah, I mean we definitely have some questions
to ask the line from this scenethat stands out.

Speaker 2 (02:05:38):
she says oh come, wayne, by the way, after uh
saying he didn't have a, startstearing down the shelves and
breaking the candles anddestroying everything.
Don't say it.
I can't blame him.
I know that we just talkedabout controlling your emotions
and keeping those in check andeverything else, but this is
understandable to me.

Speaker 4 (02:05:56):
Who's ever modeled that for him anyway?

Speaker 3 (02:05:58):
Exactly yes, he just does what he sort of knows to do
.

Speaker 2 (02:06:03):
And she's saying oh, come on, wayne, what are you
doing?
Stop, please.
It doesn't have to be like this, and you know what.
It does have to be like thisbecause this is how it is.
It does have to be like thisbecause this is what is
happening.
He is reacting to herphysically with the same level
of emotional violence that shewas just reacting towards him.

Speaker 3 (02:06:23):
Yeah, first of all violence, that she was just
reacting towards him.
Yeah, first of all, that isincredibly insightful.
I didn't see that and I lovethat it's such a boss statement.

Speaker 4 (02:06:32):
It's such a yeah like hey, let me break this down for
you.
It may look like you weresmiling, but it wasn't, that was
violent, you're right.

Speaker 3 (02:06:42):
Interesting, anyway, both things can be true, so I'll
share this.
What I saw in this scene was awoman whose life is in many ways
shaped by the out of control,rage and violence of the men
around her.
Yes, like she.
Like she had Wayne and she'sgot Calvin, who we just watched

(02:07:06):
do pretty much what Wayne'sdoing now, just with smaller
bottles, right, yeah.
And then Wayne, like, and thenobviously, she lives in a house
with Reggie who has chamomileover here.
Like she's just surrounded bythat and so she goes.
She's just surrounded by thatand so she goes.

(02:07:29):
Ah, here we go, like the.
The glimmer of not that theglimmer of my shelves went up,
the glimmer of my bottle youknow, somebody cared about my
candles is out now, like back to.
This is what life is, is itthis?

Speaker 4 (02:07:39):
is what men do, her candles it's so interesting.
He would just set this up andhe's breaking the shelves.
That he did.
And you're right, coach.
She says she's like oh, goddamn it.
And then she says something youknow what?
You're all the fucking same.

Speaker 3 (02:07:52):
And I wanted to say, before we got to that line,
because I thought it, I thoughtlike he's a man, like in this
scene, as far as, like herexperience of the world.
It's like, oh right, you're myson, but you're a man, but
you're still a yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:08:08):
Although the only thing I need to say about that
and I have spent all week onlinearguing with people, even
though I swore to God I wasgoing to stop doing that about
the ways in which women arevictimized and conditioned to
put up with abusive men and allthese other things Not every man
is abusive, obviously that'strue, but not every man is

(02:08:31):
abusive.

Speaker 4 (02:08:31):
We try to be, we try to be as part of it.
In the manual it does say, sure, absolutely, you know, but yeah
.

Speaker 2 (02:08:37):
But you know from justified if you meet an asshole
in the morning.
He was an asshole.
If you meet an all day everyday.
You're the, and so there's alittle bit here that maureen is
drawn to men who are like this.
That is what she picks, and I'mnot saying that this is her
fault.
I'm saying that she is givingoff responsibility for that, and

(02:09:01):
that means that she's puttingit on to everybody else.

Speaker 4 (02:09:03):
It's, it's not that she is making poor decisions.
She's going to land a reallygreat dude with her.
Her personal foibles.

Speaker 2 (02:09:10):
So, listen, I know you talk about the health,
health economy, and I feel likethere could be ways where,
societally, we should have abetter safety net so that she
could be I.
I still can't Thank you, boss.
Oh, better safety net so thatshe could be I.

Speaker 4 (02:09:24):
I still can't.
Thank you, boss.
Oh my God, Hold on.
No, that's my thing.
I work at a fucking nonprofit.

Speaker 2 (02:09:27):
I'm not saying people just help each other, I'm
saying there should be so.

Speaker 4 (02:09:32):
now you stole, I stole my idea from you.

Speaker 2 (02:09:32):
Okay, I mean we'll talk about it offline, but yeah.
But the saddest part about thisfor me, other than fucking
Wayne's little face that made mesob so, so much Right now he is
16, and she is technicallyWayne Sr's widow.
Between the two of them theywould have enough in survivor

(02:09:57):
benefits through Social Securitythat, along with whatever she
could make on the candles andwhatever he could get in a
part-time, even full-time job at16, they might be able to do
make it by.
They theoretically could ekeout a living and get away from
Calvin and Reggie, and the twoof them together could have
figured their shit out.

Speaker 3 (02:10:17):
You're not wrong.

Speaker 2 (02:10:19):
But she-.

Speaker 3 (02:10:21):
You're a little wrong .

Speaker 2 (02:10:22):
I don't think so.
Man, those fucking Okay you'rea little wrong.

Speaker 4 (02:10:24):
I don't think so man, those fucking.

Speaker 1 (02:10:25):
let me tell you something about social security
but no, this.

Speaker 2 (02:10:28):
This was the chance where, if he, when Calvin, said
either he goes or you go withhim, and she was like fucking
fine, I'm taking my car, myfucking car, and my son and I
are leaving.
This was the one chance whereshe sort of had to turn it
around, but she couldn't do it.

Speaker 4 (02:10:45):
I just want to point out, just because the way you
framed that boss, the greatestexit line in the history of
humanity.
You know Oscar Wilde's finalline before he died you're going
to die.
He said either that wallpapergoes or I do.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:11:02):
Listen, I'm not saying that I do Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:11:05):
Listen, I'm not saying I pray that I can toss
one of those off my radar.
No one will ever be bad Wow.

Speaker 4 (02:11:13):
That is I just.
Anyway, I was thinking aboutultimatums.
You're right.
She says you're all the same.
I got nothing to say to this.
And Glass is crashing Hands inthe air.
Hey, I'm out like she's likethis.
Yeah, washing my hand, this isnot, this is not me.
Um, wayne throws a candle atnot at her, but like across the
room in her direction.

(02:11:33):
Now we see she's gone, she hasvamus and there are a couple uh
sort of terrible portraits onthe wall.
We get close closeups of themand then we see Wayne walk slow
motion up to them, smash punches.
These are glass encased photos.
One, bam fist breaks the glasson the Calvin portrait.

(02:11:56):
Fist brace the glass on the momportrait, on the Maureen
portrait.
I never understand people thatpunch glass, but okay.
And we see him slow motion walkout and he goes right for the
car.
At least he'll get the the, theconsolation prize of he'll get

(02:12:16):
his fucking dad's car back andlo and behold, as he walks
through it, we get a shot of himwalking towards it, music over
top.

Speaker 3 (02:12:25):
Um, and you'll never believe it, the keys are sitting
on the goddamn passenger seat,to which coach had a visible,
like audio, reaction, like oh,be careful oh, okay, I'm glad
you caught that, because I was,because it's I don't know, it's
my life to this point, I don'tknow what to tell you, but I was

(02:12:46):
like you are not looking aroundenough, you are not, like it's
not going to be easy, likethere's a part of me that was,
like you, about to get clocked.
I don't understand, I don't knowhow, yet I don't know, but like
you're not just going to walkout of here, you, it's not going
to be like that, you're notgoing to waltz out.

Speaker 4 (02:13:02):
Yeah, like no way it's God free, Right, no way.
So we get an insert shot of thekeys.
Wayne goes in, throws his bagon the seat, closes the door,
grabs the keys I'll be damned.
The thing starts right up.
It's a monster.
He revs it, puts it in driveand then hits the gas and
nothing happens.

(02:13:22):
And then hits the gas andnothing happens.
And he looks out the window andwhat has happened here, boss?

Speaker 2 (02:13:28):
Oh, the back tires are up on a jack, so he can't
leave.

Speaker 4 (02:13:33):
It's literally a trap .
It's a rear-wheel drive car andthey have left it with the
wheels off the ground.
They've jacked it up.
The wheels are just off theground, not going to go.
Front wheels are just fuckinghot wheels, don't do anything.

Speaker 2 (02:13:47):
And before we move on too much from the smashing of
the room and the pictures andeverything else, I absolutely
want to reiterate that whenpeople break things near or at
you in those ways, if somebodythrows a glass at your head
across the room, that is still100 violent him punching the

(02:14:08):
pictures.
I don't, it's fucking fine,great.
Like there has been a lot oftalk recently about the property
damage done at campuses andthat human destruction is not
equivalent to propertydestruction.
Like when people were talkingabout um during the black lives
matters protests.
They were like oh, the writingthat happened.

(02:14:29):
Well, number one, that wasn'tactually most protesters.
That's a different thing.
But also I I don't give a shitabout looting.
If you have insurance and if itcould be replaced, it will be
fine.
Like I am not going to say thatsomebody, Wayne, in this
situation, when he is thisheartbroken and this upset
punching a picture when nobodyis around, I'm fine with that,

(02:14:51):
Fucking fine.

Speaker 4 (02:14:52):
I wish I could agree with you.
I totally disagree.

Speaker 3 (02:14:55):
It's the conversation worth having.

Speaker 4 (02:14:58):
We've talked about this before, because I grew up
in a family where we had alittle shop.
We had no money People used tosteal from us.
You can say insurance, butinsurance is the great talk
about the great satan.
Oh for sure you're not going toget all your shit back.
You're not going to get theright money for.
They're going to hold out.
They're going to find someclause that means they only have
to pay for 35 cents on thedollar.
I mean, it's just.

Speaker 2 (02:15:17):
It's just a nightmare it's a total nightmare, but it
can ruin your family overnothing.

Speaker 4 (02:15:22):
Like you know, you didn't do anything, you just
weren't there when things gotlooted.
So yeah, it's whatever but.
I get where you're coming fromin the discrepancy between
humans and violence and property.

Speaker 2 (02:15:33):
And also that what you're referring to is
capitalism taking advantage ofpeople and not people taking
advantage of people.
Like the insurance companiessuck because they're going to
try to screw you out of yourmoney.
Like the insurance companiessuck because they're going to
try to screw you out of yourmoney.
And so I'm not saying that it'sgreat, but I'm saying when
people like, oh, can you believethat they tore down a CVS, I'm
like well, fucking CVS will befine.
Like are people dying?

(02:15:55):
Do we need to worry about thatmore?

Speaker 3 (02:15:58):
That is a larger concern.
It's totally interesting to methat you picked that CVS,
because that's exactly that isspecifically what was talked
about in one of these times theCVS and I actually did a
storytelling piece I will sharein the community.
But I did a storytelling piecewhere I compared being Black in
America and being a passenger onSpirit Airlines, and they line

(02:16:23):
up a lot more than you wouldthink.

Speaker 4 (02:16:28):
I'm just connecting the dots in my head.
That's fucking great.

Speaker 3 (02:16:32):
People have contacted me over years about this piece.
One of the things I said duringit when I was talking about
police brutality and whatever Iwas like fuck your fucking CVS.
I don't give a fuck about thatcvs, burn it down I don't give a
fuck.

Speaker 4 (02:16:50):
Anybody care about the feelings of a multinational
corporation.
No, no, but I'm hearing, but,but, but, but.

Speaker 3 (02:16:55):
Even if it's not a no , no, no I know, I know you're
kidding, but I'm saying like Ihear what you're saying and I
also find myself going likethere's, yeah, I hear, but I do
hear you, and I hear you sayinglike hold on a second, like I'm
a store owner who like hasnothing to do Right.
It was like oh my God, likewould I'm the powers that be now

(02:17:17):
.

Speaker 2 (02:17:18):
Like.

Speaker 3 (02:17:18):
I don't know what the fuck to do.

Speaker 2 (02:17:19):
So anyway, it's an interesting thing.
I mean again the grocery storejust around the corner from me.
I will never, ever, ever steal.
I accidentally they forgot toring up something and I went
back the next time I was in.
I was like you guys had tocharge me for two avocados and
not just one.
And they were like, please,please, get the fuck out of here
with that shit.
I'm not going to waste my timeto charge you a dollar twenty
five.

Speaker 3 (02:17:38):
I was like, ok, well, that's fine, I guess but you
know, I'm gonna say this to you,boss you have such integrity
and I'm serious, you have puttogether.

Speaker 4 (02:17:51):
No, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (02:17:52):
You have what to know , right now to have integrity,
oh my god, is to live by yourvalues I gotta put that on
something now.

Speaker 2 (02:18:00):
No, I am dead serious .

Speaker 3 (02:18:03):
You have your code and you're, and you are true to
them, because you have told usabout things you do take.

Speaker 1 (02:18:09):
Oh, yeah, but that also has its rules, yeah, you
have.

Speaker 3 (02:18:12):
You are clear.
You're not just like, oh, thereare things in the world and
indiscriminately, they all canjust end up in my purse.
You're like this is why thisworks here.
But when it comes to this, thatis not, and I no, I really mean
it.
I know coach is gonna liketotally give you a hard time now
, but I'm dead serious if you goback to a store.

(02:18:32):
I probably I can promise you Ishouldn't promise you.
Maybe I would have done it ifyou caught me in the right mood,
but 99 times out of 100 I'mlike well you know, I'm sure you
fucked me on the price of therice anyway, so whatever I.

Speaker 2 (02:18:43):
I should mention I'm at that store literally twice a
week, so it was the next time Iwas in I was like hey, you
missed this thing.
Can I give you a dollar?
And they're like we don't wantto waste the time to figure out
how to key that in, so then youcould have thrown it in the tip
jar.
They don't have a.

Speaker 4 (02:18:58):
If they did, I would have, you could be like oh, I,
accidentally, am going to leavethis here, wink, wink.

Speaker 2 (02:19:04):
If the tip jar were, I was going to make a rude
comment about the hot assistantmanager.
But I won't.

Speaker 4 (02:19:11):
But I would throw dollars at him if that were an
acceptable thing to do, jesusChrist, I would If he spelled
the alphabet on a pole.

Speaker 2 (02:19:22):
He looks just like a cross between John Carter from
ER and Jeremy Allen White, and Idon't know how, but he's really
attractive and I try not tostare at him.

Speaker 4 (02:19:32):
I thought you don't usually go in for really
attractive people.
I thought that wasn't reallyyour thing.

Speaker 2 (02:19:36):
Well, attractive to me?

Speaker 4 (02:19:38):
I don't know if other people looked at him A
guana-looking motherfucker, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:19:42):
A guana looking motherfucker is so accurate, oh
shit, oh.
This conversation is revealingway too much to me about me, ah
shit.

Speaker 4 (02:19:52):
Okay, well, we get this.
Uh, we get this.
This moment here where Waynelooks out and we get a shot from
behind.
We see now the Jack standsbehind the wheels.

Speaker 3 (02:20:05):
That sucker's not going anywhere.
This, this, uh, and the wayit's done, it is truly like you
can see that it was done to justbe in just high enough, like
they didn't say like you'regoing nowhere, buddy, this was
intended to be, this was, thisis a mousetrap, those keys were
cheese.

Speaker 4 (02:20:26):
That was the cheese cue the Tom Hardy.

Speaker 3 (02:20:29):
That's bait meme at this point it's like, oh no, go
ahead coach, cause it getsinteresting we get a shot from
inside the car.

Speaker 4 (02:20:41):
We're in passenger seat as Wayne turns back in and
bam, reggie flies from the backseat and the back seat's good
for fucking.
Yeah, that's right.
Uh, um and um.
Now Reggie has a I mean, it's ascrewdriver which I was like.
That is so fucked up.

(02:21:02):
It's actually like.

Speaker 3 (02:21:03):
I find it more menacing than if he had a knife,
because to me anyone wouldthink a knife.
But if you have a screwdriverin your hand, you're a violent
motherfucker who has doneviolent things before.
If that's your reaction, I'llget me a screwdriver and
straighten this motherfucker outLike you have done some
violence.
You know what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (02:21:22):
You'll use a spoon to rip out his heart.
You know what you're doing.
You'll use a spoon to rip outhis heart.

Speaker 3 (02:21:27):
Just as good there is a blade on that.

Speaker 4 (02:21:30):
There's a little tiny .
It's a standard screwdriver,not a Phillips head, so the
drive on it is sharp enough todo whatever damage you need it
to do.
No, it has like prison weaponvibes yeah right, anything can
be a weapon in the hands ofsomeone who knows how to use it.
Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 2 (02:21:47):
In order to make sure that none of the listeners get
upset.
Yes, that was a reference toRobin Hood, prince of Thieves,
when he shouts about how I'lltear your heart out with a spoon
.
Why a spoon?
It's dull, it'll hurt more.

Speaker 4 (02:22:02):
Ah, Alan Rickman.

Speaker 2 (02:22:02):
Ah, fucking Alan Rickman, oh fucking Alan.

Speaker 4 (02:22:05):
Rickman, I got to love it.
I I'm not God, I could justtalk.
I could talk for another hourabout watching that film and
just being how everybody whowatched that film was blown away
Like you never thought.
Oh, the best part of it isgoing to be the sheriff.
It's like like uh, anyway, thebest part of it is going to be

(02:22:26):
the sheriff of nottingham.
It's like like uh, anyway.
I mean absolutely phenomenal, nosmall actors.
Um, I meant to.
I meant to mention that when wetalked about the security guard
, uh, who, like you, got aninsight into her life at the
pool with dell, you know youjust.
But again, the writing is sogood, it really reveals
character for all these people.
Um, now, uh, wayne is stuckbecause reggie man, reggie has
him, he has his head locked,he's got his arm around him,

(02:22:49):
he's got the screwdriver to histhroat and then I knew he was a
fucking red hander.
He says and then calvin walksup slowly and whistles and as
soon as wayne looks over out thewindow, it's a full knockout
punch from the window andabsolutely, and wayne and reggie

(02:23:10):
barely gets the screwdriver offhis neck before the punch comes
sailing through and and coldtalks wayne um, you get the
sense.

Speaker 3 (02:23:20):
this isn't the first time they set somebody up.
There was not a lot ofdiscussion.
Everybody knew their parts.
Everybody knew what to do Now,on the technical side, if we're
not going to keep going, are wegoing to go into?

Speaker 4 (02:23:33):
the next scene.
We're done.

Speaker 3 (02:23:35):
But let me point this out because we will lose this
in between episodes.
We'll go into the actual nextscene in a moment.
But the punch is going from ourright to our left and it's
violent and it's sudden and it'sjarring.
And the next shot has a carcoming through frame left to
right and I would argue that itmakes the violence of that first

(02:23:59):
movement feel even more intense.
It's like a relative velocitything.

Speaker 4 (02:24:05):
Like a freight train-y kind of continuity,
continuity vibe.
Like it's doubly.

Speaker 3 (02:24:09):
It's like doubly fast from right to left, because
immediately we don't go tostillness, we go to left to
right, so it just like oh yeah,that's really good yeah, that
much harder I hadn't thought ofthat, because that's not how my
brain does things.

Speaker 2 (02:24:23):
But but yeah, no, that's absolutely true.
That is what happened to me.

Speaker 3 (02:24:28):
Yeah, yeah.
So it's, it's, it's intentional.
I'm going to do a quick last,quick share.
I'm going to get out of yourway, coach.

Speaker 4 (02:24:36):
But because I thought about fucking time relative
velocity.

Speaker 3 (02:24:38):
I actually there's a theory.
I'm I'm dubbing myselfphilosopher and I thought about
this.
With life, I'm actually serious.
You know, people say life comesat you fast and I am of the.
You know, we, we I think mostpeople we've been taught like,
all right, life's coming at meand I'm going to go at life and
I'm going to, and I, andactually I'm coming.

(02:25:00):
I've started thinking aboutlife in terms of the idea of
relative velocity.
I'm like no, no, no, if life'scoming at you fast and you
charge into it, every collisionis all the more violent in your
life.
We got to find stillness.

Speaker 2 (02:25:17):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (02:25:18):
And actually we really actually will be slowing
our experience of life downbecause we're not charging into
something that is coming at usanyway.
So just something to thinkabout.

Speaker 4 (02:25:30):
I love that.
We've had a lot of revelationson this particular episode.
We've had stillness, we've hadiguana looking motherfuckers,
we've had integrity shockinglyintegrity.

Speaker 3 (02:25:45):
Didn't see integrity coming.

Speaker 4 (02:25:49):
Did not have integrity on the bingo card.
We're going to stop there.
We'll pick it up.
We'll finish this episode nexttime.

Speaker 3 (02:25:58):
Coach, where do people find you?
If they want to find you, comeby alignpcom Check out what we
do.
I want to start really pushingto get out into the world and
help people do this thing.
So come by AlignPcom and checkit out.
Speaker page.
I'll come through where you areand let's have a good time.
Make the world a better place.

Speaker 4 (02:26:16):
Coach spends a lot of time making the world a better
place.
Just this past weekend he did adiversity and inclusion session
where, at the end of it, peopleclapped and cheered.
That doesn't happen in adiversity and inclusion session.
What they do is they feelshamed and chastised and they
grumble and go.
I can't wait for this fucker toget out of here.

(02:26:37):
They really did clap.
It was very funny.
Instead, they clap for Coach,because that's who he is.
He's a wonder of the modernworld and thank you, coach.
Everyone, please visit the IP.
Contrarily, on the other sidewe have Boss.

Speaker 2 (02:26:54):
Nobody's ever clapped for me ever.

Speaker 4 (02:26:55):
No one's ever, nor should they, Nope.
Where do people find you ifthey want to find you?

Speaker 2 (02:27:02):
So mostly you can find me on threads which is
emilychambers.31.
Also, as I mentioned before,I'm an accountant.
We finally filed our corporatetax return and I get to have a
life again.
It's official.
So, I will be on the communitysite.
I would highly recommend youcome through.

(02:27:22):
I will be posting stuff andcatching up, so be prepared for,
like I don't know, 14 to 280messages of me responding to
stuff from the past two or threemonths.
But do that.
Become a member, join theButtercups, it'll be great.

Speaker 4 (02:27:40):
Awesome.
Thank you, boss.
And also, on the side of beingbooed, not clapped uh, you can,
you can.
Um, uh, please, uh.
On my side of the equation uh,please, support your local
libraries and the written word.
And I'll say it again raisebetter boys.
It'll just help everybody.
Um and uh.

(02:28:01):
This is this is going to beairing on fr.
So I remind you that tomorrowis the final of Eurovision, the
grand final.
Boss is making a face, but it'sokay.
I watched the semifinals onTuesday night.
It was so much fun.
It went too fast.
There's another final.
If you're hearing this, onFriday, you missed a semifinal

(02:28:23):
on Thursday, but Saturday is thebig event, and there was one of
the songs I played for.
I don't know if Boss was stillon the recording when I played
it, but there was a song calledRim Tim, tuggy Dim that I've
never seen everyone.
It was a semifinal last night.
I've never seen everyone dance,and so the crowd was singing

(02:28:44):
the refrain for the for the guyand I was like huh, like, this
is a new.
They usually sing along for thesongs that they like, but not
to the point where he couldcount on them actually filling
in properly.
I was like oh, this is a.
This is a wrinkle.
So there's a lot of greatcontenders and it remains to be
seen who's going to win, but ifyou're hearing this and you have

(02:29:06):
an inkling to tune in, thatwill be on Saturday and that is
it for us.
Thank you so much for joining usfor this episode of Wayne.
Episode 9, thought we WasFriends and we'll be back to
finish it up.
Actually, we might do the veryspecial episode for Coach next
time if coach can get his ducksin a row.

(02:29:27):
Um, the, the, the backstory ofthis.
I don't even know how you'regonna do it, coach, because I
was listening to one guy talkabout it and the amount of beef
and the amount of rivalry itgoes back over a decade there
are all kinds of people, of all.

Speaker 3 (02:29:38):
It's insane everybody .

Speaker 4 (02:29:40):
It's like mentors of mentors of mentors and which
mentor screwed a mentor out of acheck for a certain?
And you go oh my God, it islike it is something, so I will.
I cannot wait to sit back andjust learn and we'll go from
there.
So it'll either be in the waynext time or it'll be depending

(02:30:03):
on coaches availability.
We'll do that very specialepisode and that's it.
And then we'll pick up thefinal episode of Wayne and then,
what you know, boy, boy, howdy,we will have a two, two, two
shows in the can, as they say.
Thank you, everybody, and untilnext time we are Richmond.

Speaker 3 (02:30:27):
Till we squat in your pool and make you come fuck up
your tummy, those poor chinos.

Speaker 4 (02:30:35):
Alright, thanks everybody.
We'll see you next time.

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Wayne | S1 Ep9 Part2 "Thought We Was Friends"

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