March 31, 2025 • 16 mins
In this episode of the 10th Man podcast, the host critiques a popular narrative that undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than US-born citizens. The podcast discusses a debate involving Dean Withers, who claims that immigrants are less likely to commit violent crimes, a statement that is fact-checked and found to be inaccurate. The episode also critiques studies by Michael Light and others that use Texas data to suggest that immigrants commit fewer crimes. The host argues that using data from a single state like Texas is flawed and discusses potential biases and inconsistencies in these studies. The episode concludes by questioning the motivations of the Democrats and media, accusing them of using flawed data to support their political agenda and downplaying the crimes committed by undocumented immigrants.
Commentary on trending issues brought to you with a moderate perspective.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Famous researcher rejectspopular studies supposedly
showing immigrants don't breakthe law for the same reasons we
do, but now he has a new studythat proves it.
The great immigrant crimecoverup.
Today on the 10th man, there's amale version of Greta Thunberg A
(00:34):
who supports illegal immigrants,and he said this about immigrant
crime.
Dean Withers (00:39):
Are you a US born citizen?
A hundred percent.
You are statistically speaking,four times more likely.
To commit a violent crime thanan undocumented migrant.
Hag (00:47):
Liar, liar, Liar.
the last part is what we shouldsay about his statement.
In the video recording of thisdebate, it's a rather lengthy
one.
Fact check bubbles pop up fromtime to time in order to prove
what the kid is saying.
He's a, he's an arrogant youngdemocrat named Dean Withers.
(01:10):
And this video, you can find iton YouTube.
Can one Democrat teen, oneliberal teen take on 20 Trump
supporters and.
They're oh for two because thefact check bubble says F four
times less likely to commitproperty crime.
But if you notice what DeanWithers says is this,
Dean Withers (01:31):
More likely.
To commit a violent crime
So not violent crime, butproperty crime, depending on
which statement is accurate, andthe accurate one is the less
alarming one, the propertycrime.
But of course that statement isalso incorrect.
As we've been saying all thesestudies are flawed in the
(01:52):
strongest conclusion anyimmigrant crime study can make
it's not that immigrants commitvery little crime.
Rather it's, we really can'ttell by the data we looked at.
And so if Donald Trump saysthere's a crime wave, we didn't
prove it.
So all these news articles aboutimmigrant crime trying to
(02:15):
downplay if they have these twothings in common, they'll have a
headline.
The headline will say, immigrantcrime is a myth.
Then there's an openingparagraph saying the right, or
Donald Trump claims there's animmigrant crime wave.
What is a crime wave?
Does there have to be a crimewave?
We have multiple people beingmurdered by immigrants.
(02:36):
Isn't that enough?
Anyway, there'll be thatstatement that Donald Trump says
there's a crime wave and whetherhe has or not, followed by the
listing of an inconclusivestudy.
Inconclusive and or flawed.
So that's really non-eventreporting, saying we didn't find
(02:57):
proof.
The press likes to use the fakenews, likes to use the non-event
as news.
They'll say about the Venezuelanimmigrants ice failed to show
any proof that these immigrantswere criminals.
Or they'll say, Trump did notrule out military force These
(03:19):
are wrong.
Not only because they're.
Reporting a negative as anevent, as a positive, but in any
case, if you were going to useforce in any kind of action, you
wouldn't tip your hand.
And of course, if you ever ruledit out, if you ruled it out in
advance and then someday had touse it for some reason why, then
they'd say you were a liar.
(03:41):
that's what makes the fake news.
And these non-events arereported as if they are events.
But we on the other hand, willbe very specific about the flaws
in the other two study types.
One we're gonna look at todayand another one next time
looking at the falsehoods fromthe pages of the New York Times.
And we'll try to keep it movingbecause just listening to this,
(04:03):
it could be dry, but I hope itwon't be.
Diving into it, a press releasefrom the University of
Wisconsin, and this is thefamous study reads, undocumented
immigrants, far less likely tocommit crimes in US than
citizens.
And this is the study everyone'stalking about.
(04:26):
It's the one that gets everyoneexcited because it's by a man
named Michael Light.
Michael Light is a sociologistat the University of Wisconsin.
It is disappointing that ourexperts don't serve us any
better than they do because thisman is considered an expert.
If we could follow the money, wewould probably find that he gets
(04:48):
paid for weaving the tails thathe tells.
In the last episode, we toldabout Stanford University about
their studies where they compareincarceration rates of people.
Whom it guesses to beimmigrants, and then supposedly
proves that they do not commitcrime.
(05:12):
Michael Light has done the samekind of study.
Remember, there's really onlythree types of studies.
Can't prove a negative.
Maybe there's more.
I've only seen three.
There's only three types ofstudies and different people
perform the same ones, but.
Michael Light himself now says,studying incarceration rates is
(05:33):
ineffective.
And you'll notice that hasn'tstopped people from continuing
to quote them and saying, studyafter study, et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera.
And he gives some of the reasonsthat we gave, such as records
matching crimes to immigrationstatus were not available.
That's quoting his article.
(05:54):
He does not, however, criticizethose studies for not having any
data for the Joe Bidenimmigrants, however and that's
rather telling because his studydoes the same thing.
This vaunted study of MichaelLights only covers the years
from 2012 to 2018.
Notice Biden became president in2021.
(06:16):
If we're talking about a crimewave, we're talking about after
2021.
But even that's not the biggestproblem.
And this every time anythingthat the Democrats say, you do
not have to dig very deep tofind its false.
In this case, the headline ofthe article says, quote,
(06:37):
undocument immigrants far lesslead to commit crime to commit
crimes in the US than citizens.
But all the data he looked at.
We're for the state of Texas,Michael Light did it and now
everybody's doing it.
You see other people doing thesame study.
(06:57):
Oh.
And that's not the only problem.
Believe me, but just, let's justsay this.
Looking just at the state ofTexas and then saying it applies
to the entire us.
That has to be a stretch.
Now, the Democrats have alwayshad a problem with confirmation
(07:18):
bias.
That's the technical term.
That's what happens when you seewhat you want to see or you're
easily convinced by somethingthat presents a conclusion.
A conclusion that you like.
And it's, it can be difficultfor all of us, but looking only
at the data for one state.
Does not prove very much aboutthe entire us.
(07:40):
That's just a given.
But the left will take theevidence that something might be
happening, which the Texas datado say they say something might
be happening, but the left willtake the evidence that something
might be happening and say thatit is happening because there's
no doubt that light's, findingsare plausible and they give
(08:02):
reason to conduct furtherresearch.
In other words, there is ahypothesis based on the Texas
data.
We should look elsewhere to seewhether it's true that
immigrants commit crime, lesscrime than American citizens.
But his findings do not by anymeans prove his point.
They don't prove the pointstated in the headline nine.
(08:25):
So what he should do is just goahead and look at some other
states now that he has thehypothesis and he's had well,
four or five years to do that.
So why doesn't he, why hasn'tanybody, why hasn't anybody
produced the same look at asingle state, but a different
state?
Because Texas is the only stateand there are 51 of, no, still
(08:48):
only 50.
There are 50 of them.
There's only one state whereimmigration status is included
in arrest records.
So he was looking at arrestrecord, seeing who was arrested
and then put in prison.
And Texas is the only state thatkeeps track in most states.
(09:09):
It's illegal to track it, andthat tells you something right
there that could be a causativefactor of any bias that could be
found.
But that simple fact, thatlittle detail doesn't stop
Michael Light.
Or the Cato Institute or manyothers from claiming that they
have proof of something, whichthey do not.
(09:32):
Now, do we know for a fact thatusing Texas data only is wrong
out of hand?
We certainly know that havingdata for all the states would be
better, but is it wrong to useTexas?
It probably is.
You could probably pick a betterstate.
Using any of the border statesis going to give a distorted
view.
(09:53):
Just automatically they're onthe periphery.
Periphery, and people who arebreaking into the country will
probably try to get outta Dodge.
They'll probably try to move onand get to Ohio or New York
before they just start intobreaking the law rather than
attack the first policeman theysee upon crossing the border
(10:15):
into Texas.
And a lot of the events, some ofour biggest concerns, bear this
out.
Lake and Riley rest in peace wasnot murdered in Texas.
She was murdered in Georgia.
Molly Tibbits was murdered inIowa.
Kate Steinle was killed on SanFrancisco's Fisherman's Wharf
(10:38):
and the subway car where DebrKawa was set on fire was in New
York City.
All these poor women killedbutchered by illegal immigrants
and high profile stories.
None of'em.
Were in Texas.
We don't have any high profileTexas crimes by immigrants.
(10:59):
Oh, we have crimes.
Just not the high profile ones.
It almost seems that if you wantto find the worst crimes, you'd
look anywhere but Texas, andthere are reasons that criminals
might break the law elsewhere.
Texas has a lot of Mexicans, forexample.
(11:20):
So you might be tending to get adifferent group, people crossing
over just from Mexico andvisiting relatives or staying
with relatives, getting thesupport of relatives in Texas.
But you're not gonna dirty yourown nest.
And the Mexican community isprobably not as welcoming to the
Venezuelan and Chilean gangs asthe liberal white women in New
(11:43):
York City are.
Big difference.
There's some other differences.
Not definitive, but certainlythey're out there such as Texas
is a red state where people haveguns that could certainly
influence the crime rate.
Texas has capital punishment anduses it.
(12:06):
Texas doesn't have sanctuarycities and it doesn't have any
high rise immigrant shelters,and that affects, those two
facts, affect both the crime.
As well as, and this isimportant, the crime reporting,
there are huge differencesbetween all of the states.
These are just some of the moreobvious ones, and any of these
(12:28):
differences could have an impacton the results of this study.
But this is the one study, it'sthe main one that they're
hanging their hat on today.
Whenever they say illegalimmigrants commit less crime
than the native born.
And that's before anyoneanalyzes the Texas data for
(12:49):
flaws of which many have been inbeen found, such as the time of
reporting, the time it takes toreport crimes.
But to me, the big thing isthis, regardless of any of this,
there are a half millionforeigners living in Texas jails
and prisons.
It's just under a half millionand most of them are illegal and
(13:14):
they're living there at taxpayerexpense.
Now, when people worry aboutinflation, this is one of the
factors that they could, theyshould consider.
And these people, they shouldn'tbe in our country at all.
If they're criminals, fine, butthey should be criminals
somewhere else.
And if they're caught, theyshould be somewhere else in
somebody else's jail.
(13:36):
But beyond that.
These evil immigrants committed27,000 assaults.
They committed 15,000 sexualviolations, 15,000 kidnappings,
1,400.
And how many murders do youthink are attributed to them?
(14:00):
Over 500.
More than 500 Texans would stillbe alive today, if not for the
immigrants.
But do our Democrats say we havean immigrant murder every day?
Do they say every life isprecious?
No.
(14:21):
What the Democrats do say isthis
Kamala Harris (14:25):
Aside, I'll tell you, having done the work I've
done is our undocumentedimmigrants that are the least
likely to come with crime.
So let's get our notionstogether about what we're
talking about.
so people are dying.
(14:46):
And the Democrat response is aslogan that happens to be a lie.
The Democrats in the fake newsis as if they have a secret
meeting where they go and theyinvent sayings, which then their
paid researchers, theresearchers they have on payroll
(15:08):
then go and corroborate.
They create data, they createstudies.
Because they're on the payroll.
The biggest intentional killerof kids in the United States is
suicide, but they've convincedus all that it's gun violence.
(15:28):
Meanwhile, there are 7,000illegals in Texas prisons on
weapons convictions, and we haveno idea how many more across the
us, but those guns don't matter.
To the terrorist organizationthat is the Democrat Party,
(15:49):
because Democrats don't careabout you or about immigrants.
They only care about power.
The immigrants, what are they?
They are just human shields tothem.
Democrats don't care about thelaw.
They don't care about the truth.
They don't care about you oryour safety.
(16:12):
Only power.
Don't go out and tell a friendabout the 10th Man podcast.
I mean it.
And thank you for listening.
I.
Famous researcher rejectspopular studies supposedly
showing immigrants don't breakthe law for the same reasons we
do, but now he has a new studythat proves it.
The great immigrant crimecoverup.
Today on the 10th man, there's amale version of Greta Thunberg A
(00:34):
who supports illegal immigrants,and he said this about immigrant
crime.
Dean Withers (00:39):
Are you a US born citizen?
A hundred percent.
You are statistically speaking,four times more likely.
To commit a violent crime thanan undocumented migrant.
Hag (00:47):
Liar, liar, Liar.
the last part is what we shouldsay about his statement.
In the video recording of thisdebate, it's a rather lengthy
one.
Fact check bubbles pop up fromtime to time in order to prove
what the kid is saying.
He's a, he's an arrogant youngdemocrat named Dean Withers.
(01:10):
And this video, you can find iton YouTube.
Can one Democrat teen, oneliberal teen take on 20 Trump
supporters and.
They're oh for two because thefact check bubble says F four
times less likely to commitproperty crime.
But if you notice what DeanWithers says is this,
Dean Withers (01:31):
More likely.
To commit a violent crime
So not violent crime, butproperty crime, depending on
which statement is accurate, andthe accurate one is the less
alarming one, the propertycrime.
But of course that statement isalso incorrect.
As we've been saying all thesestudies are flawed in the
(01:52):
strongest conclusion anyimmigrant crime study can make
it's not that immigrants commitvery little crime.
Rather it's, we really can'ttell by the data we looked at.
And so if Donald Trump saysthere's a crime wave, we didn't
prove it.
So all these news articles aboutimmigrant crime trying to
(02:15):
downplay if they have these twothings in common, they'll have a
headline.
The headline will say, immigrantcrime is a myth.
Then there's an openingparagraph saying the right, or
Donald Trump claims there's animmigrant crime wave.
What is a crime wave?
Does there have to be a crimewave?
We have multiple people beingmurdered by immigrants.
(02:36):
Isn't that enough?
Anyway, there'll be thatstatement that Donald Trump says
there's a crime wave and whetherhe has or not, followed by the
listing of an inconclusivestudy.
Inconclusive and or flawed.
So that's really non-eventreporting, saying we didn't find
(02:57):
proof.
The press likes to use the fakenews, likes to use the non-event
as news.
They'll say about the Venezuelanimmigrants ice failed to show
any proof that these immigrantswere criminals.
Or they'll say, Trump did notrule out military force These
(03:19):
are wrong.
Not only because they're.
Reporting a negative as anevent, as a positive, but in any
case, if you were going to useforce in any kind of action, you
wouldn't tip your hand.
And of course, if you ever ruledit out, if you ruled it out in
advance and then someday had touse it for some reason why, then
they'd say you were a liar.
(03:41):
that's what makes the fake news.
And these non-events arereported as if they are events.
But we on the other hand, willbe very specific about the flaws
in the other two study types.
One we're gonna look at todayand another one next time
looking at the falsehoods fromthe pages of the New York Times.
And we'll try to keep it movingbecause just listening to this,
(04:03):
it could be dry, but I hope itwon't be.
Diving into it, a press releasefrom the University of
Wisconsin, and this is thefamous study reads, undocumented
immigrants, far less likely tocommit crimes in US than
citizens.
And this is the study everyone'stalking about.
(04:26):
It's the one that gets everyoneexcited because it's by a man
named Michael Light.
Michael Light is a sociologistat the University of Wisconsin.
It is disappointing that ourexperts don't serve us any
better than they do because thisman is considered an expert.
If we could follow the money, wewould probably find that he gets
(04:48):
paid for weaving the tails thathe tells.
In the last episode, we toldabout Stanford University about
their studies where they compareincarceration rates of people.
Whom it guesses to beimmigrants, and then supposedly
proves that they do not commitcrime.
(05:12):
Michael Light has done the samekind of study.
Remember, there's really onlythree types of studies.
Can't prove a negative.
Maybe there's more.
I've only seen three.
There's only three types ofstudies and different people
perform the same ones, but.
Michael Light himself now says,studying incarceration rates is
(05:33):
ineffective.
And you'll notice that hasn'tstopped people from continuing
to quote them and saying, studyafter study, et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera.
And he gives some of the reasonsthat we gave, such as records
matching crimes to immigrationstatus were not available.
That's quoting his article.
(05:54):
He does not, however, criticizethose studies for not having any
data for the Joe Bidenimmigrants, however and that's
rather telling because his studydoes the same thing.
This vaunted study of MichaelLights only covers the years
from 2012 to 2018.
Notice Biden became president in2021.
(06:16):
If we're talking about a crimewave, we're talking about after
2021.
But even that's not the biggestproblem.
And this every time anythingthat the Democrats say, you do
not have to dig very deep tofind its false.
In this case, the headline ofthe article says, quote,
(06:37):
undocument immigrants far lesslead to commit crime to commit
crimes in the US than citizens.
But all the data he looked at.
We're for the state of Texas,Michael Light did it and now
everybody's doing it.
You see other people doing thesame study.
(06:57):
Oh.
And that's not the only problem.
Believe me, but just, let's justsay this.
Looking just at the state ofTexas and then saying it applies
to the entire us.
That has to be a stretch.
Now, the Democrats have alwayshad a problem with confirmation
(07:18):
bias.
That's the technical term.
That's what happens when you seewhat you want to see or you're
easily convinced by somethingthat presents a conclusion.
A conclusion that you like.
And it's, it can be difficultfor all of us, but looking only
at the data for one state.
Does not prove very much aboutthe entire us.
(07:40):
That's just a given.
But the left will take theevidence that something might be
happening, which the Texas datado say they say something might
be happening, but the left willtake the evidence that something
might be happening and say thatit is happening because there's
no doubt that light's, findingsare plausible and they give
(08:02):
reason to conduct furtherresearch.
In other words, there is ahypothesis based on the Texas
data.
We should look elsewhere to seewhether it's true that
immigrants commit crime, lesscrime than American citizens.
But his findings do not by anymeans prove his point.
They don't prove the pointstated in the headline nine.
(08:25):
So what he should do is just goahead and look at some other
states now that he has thehypothesis and he's had well,
four or five years to do that.
So why doesn't he, why hasn'tanybody, why hasn't anybody
produced the same look at asingle state, but a different
state?
Because Texas is the only stateand there are 51 of, no, still
(08:48):
only 50.
There are 50 of them.
There's only one state whereimmigration status is included
in arrest records.
So he was looking at arrestrecord, seeing who was arrested
and then put in prison.
And Texas is the only state thatkeeps track in most states.
(09:09):
It's illegal to track it, andthat tells you something right
there that could be a causativefactor of any bias that could be
found.
But that simple fact, thatlittle detail doesn't stop
Michael Light.
Or the Cato Institute or manyothers from claiming that they
have proof of something, whichthey do not.
(09:32):
Now, do we know for a fact thatusing Texas data only is wrong
out of hand?
We certainly know that havingdata for all the states would be
better, but is it wrong to useTexas?
It probably is.
You could probably pick a betterstate.
Using any of the border statesis going to give a distorted
view.
(09:53):
Just automatically they're onthe periphery.
Periphery, and people who arebreaking into the country will
probably try to get outta Dodge.
They'll probably try to move onand get to Ohio or New York
before they just start intobreaking the law rather than
attack the first policeman theysee upon crossing the border
(10:15):
into Texas.
And a lot of the events, some ofour biggest concerns, bear this
out.
Lake and Riley rest in peace wasnot murdered in Texas.
She was murdered in Georgia.
Molly Tibbits was murdered inIowa.
Kate Steinle was killed on SanFrancisco's Fisherman's Wharf
(10:38):
and the subway car where DebrKawa was set on fire was in New
York City.
All these poor women killedbutchered by illegal immigrants
and high profile stories.
None of'em.
Were in Texas.
We don't have any high profileTexas crimes by immigrants.
(10:59):
Oh, we have crimes.
Just not the high profile ones.
It almost seems that if you wantto find the worst crimes, you'd
look anywhere but Texas, andthere are reasons that criminals
might break the law elsewhere.
Texas has a lot of Mexicans, forexample.
(11:20):
So you might be tending to get adifferent group, people crossing
over just from Mexico andvisiting relatives or staying
with relatives, getting thesupport of relatives in Texas.
But you're not gonna dirty yourown nest.
And the Mexican community isprobably not as welcoming to the
Venezuelan and Chilean gangs asthe liberal white women in New
(11:43):
York City are.
Big difference.
There's some other differences.
Not definitive, but certainlythey're out there such as Texas
is a red state where people haveguns that could certainly
influence the crime rate.
Texas has capital punishment anduses it.
(12:06):
Texas doesn't have sanctuarycities and it doesn't have any
high rise immigrant shelters,and that affects, those two
facts, affect both the crime.
As well as, and this isimportant, the crime reporting,
there are huge differencesbetween all of the states.
These are just some of the moreobvious ones, and any of these
(12:28):
differences could have an impacton the results of this study.
But this is the one study, it'sthe main one that they're
hanging their hat on today.
Whenever they say illegalimmigrants commit less crime
than the native born.
And that's before anyoneanalyzes the Texas data for
(12:49):
flaws of which many have been inbeen found, such as the time of
reporting, the time it takes toreport crimes.
But to me, the big thing isthis, regardless of any of this,
there are a half millionforeigners living in Texas jails
and prisons.
It's just under a half millionand most of them are illegal and
(13:14):
they're living there at taxpayerexpense.
Now, when people worry aboutinflation, this is one of the
factors that they could, theyshould consider.
And these people, they shouldn'tbe in our country at all.
If they're criminals, fine, butthey should be criminals
somewhere else.
And if they're caught, theyshould be somewhere else in
somebody else's jail.
(13:36):
But beyond that.
These evil immigrants committed27,000 assaults.
They committed 15,000 sexualviolations, 15,000 kidnappings,
1,400.
And how many murders do youthink are attributed to them?
(14:00):
Over 500.
More than 500 Texans would stillbe alive today, if not for the
immigrants.
But do our Democrats say we havean immigrant murder every day?
Do they say every life isprecious?
No.
(14:21):
What the Democrats do say isthis
Kamala Harris (14:25):
Aside, I'll tell you, having done the work I've
done is our undocumentedimmigrants that are the least
likely to come with crime.
So let's get our notionstogether about what we're
talking about.
so people are dying.
(14:46):
And the Democrat response is aslogan that happens to be a lie.
The Democrats in the fake newsis as if they have a secret
meeting where they go and theyinvent sayings, which then their
paid researchers, theresearchers they have on payroll
(15:08):
then go and corroborate.
They create data, they createstudies.
Because they're on the payroll.
The biggest intentional killerof kids in the United States is
suicide, but they've convincedus all that it's gun violence.
(15:28):
Meanwhile, there are 7,000illegals in Texas prisons on
weapons convictions, and we haveno idea how many more across the
us, but those guns don't matter.
To the terrorist organizationthat is the Democrat Party,
(15:49):
because Democrats don't careabout you or about immigrants.
They only care about power.
The immigrants, what are they?
They are just human shields tothem.
Democrats don't care about thelaw.
They don't care about the truth.
They don't care about you oryour safety.
(16:12):
Only power.
Don't go out and tell a friendabout the 10th Man podcast.
I mean it.
And thank you for listening.
I.
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