October 1, 2024 • 26 mins
Family law attorneys Alex Hunt and R. Melissa Masoom, of Hunt Law Firm, PLLC, equip you with an arsenal of strategies for your Texas divorce or custody mediation, transforming you into the most prepared person in your mediation room. You'll hear how two experienced Texas family lawyers prepare their clients to successfully navigate high-conflict personalities, financial challenges, and creative child custody arrangements.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex Hunt (00:09):
Welcome back to the Texas Family Lawyer Podcast.
My name is Alex Hunt.
With Hunt Law Firm we serve thegreater Houston area with
offices in Katy, sugar Land,cypress and League City.
You can find more informationon our firm at
familylawyerkatiecom.
But today we are visiting withMelissa Massoum, an attorney at
(00:29):
Hunt Law Firm, and we're goingto follow up on a conversation
that we had in a past episodeabout what to expect at
mediation by talking a littlebit about what you need to do to
prepare for your Texas familylaw or divorce mediation.
So welcome, melissa, hi.
Melissa Masoom (00:46):
Alex, great to be back.
Alex Hunt (00:48):
All right, so let's do a quick recap.
Tell us, if folks didn't seeour past episode, what is
mediation?
Melissa Masoom (00:54):
So mediation just to simplify it a little bit
is just a formal processoutside of court where there's a
mediator and the parties get tobe in a room with their
attorneys and they get to settlea case outside of court with
the mediator going back andforth.
(01:15):
So that's usually how it works.
Alex Hunt (01:17):
Well, we talked about this in the past episode.
But when do you need to go tomediation episode?
But when do you need to go tomediation?
And one tool that might helpfolks that are watching this on
video is we have a child custodyflowchart that lists out the
entire child custody process anda typical case, from start to
finish.
You can find that on ourwebsite, familylawyerkdcom.
(01:39):
You can click on resources andsee the flowchart.
But tell me when during a casewould you need to go to
mediation?
Melissa Masoom (01:47):
Well, alex, you can go to mediation as soon as
you file a case.
So if you want to go and getsome temporary agreements in
place because you need somethingright away or immediate relief,
you can do it right away.
Or you can do it at the end ofthe case, after you prepare and
you and your attorney have hadtime to collect documents and
all that.
So you can do it at the end ofthe case, after you prepare and
you and your attorney have hadtime to collect documents and
(02:07):
all that.
So you can really go right awayif you need to.
Alex Hunt (02:11):
And preparation is key to mediation.
One of the hallmarks of ourfirm is that we are
over-prepared.
When we go to mediation, we gowith everything that we need.
We don't want to waste timewhere the meter's running, the
mediator's there, the clientsare paying the mediator, you're
paying the lawyer.
We want to have all of ourducks in a row beforehand.
So let's talk a little bitabout what the conversation with
(02:35):
your attorney before mediationshould look like.
Melissa Masoom (02:38):
So you're right, I, like all the other attorneys
at our firm, like to beoverprepared.
So usually I like to meet withmy client a couple of times
before and I usually give them alist of things we'll need for
mediation.
Because what we like to do atour law firm is make sure the
mediator is overprepared withour case.
(03:00):
So we usually give themdocuments such as bank
statements and anything elsethat they might need to help
settle the case, as well asexactly what my client is is
wanting.
So I always tell my clients youknow, get all that ready, get
any documents, depending on thecase.
You know I'll give that list isvery, very important because it
(03:23):
helps me prepare and it helps meget everything I need to the
mediator.
I also let them know if there'sanything you want the mediator
to look at that you think wouldbe helpful, please send that
over so I can send that over andthen I usually put together,
you know, the first offerbecause I think you know that
saves a lot of time.
(03:43):
The first offer because I thinkyou know that saves a lot of
time.
Like you said, it's a lot moreefficient if, walking in, the
mediator already knows whatwe're looking for kind of at
some of the backstory and itjust makes the process go a lot
quicker.
Alex Hunt (03:54):
Yeah, you don't want to waste time in mediation
putting together that firstoffer with the mediator there.
So the conversation that Itypically have with my clients
is dependent on whether we'regoing to mediation for temporary
orders or for final orders andof divorce, the final decree of
divorce.
So let's start with temporaryorders.
(04:14):
Some folks might not befamiliar with what temporary
orders are.
Tell me a little bit about whatare temporary orders in a
family law case.
Melissa Masoom (04:24):
So, alex, in Texas we don't have anything
called legal separation.
So a lot of people come intoour office asking you know, can
we legally separate?
You can't.
So for a divorce case,temporary orders.
And for a custody case,temporary orders are temporary
orders, exactly like it sounds.
Temporary orders, exactly likeit sounds, and it deals with
(04:49):
just some agreements or thingsthat need to be put in place
right away, as the rest of thecase is your.
The attorneys are preparingwith the rest of the case.
So, basically, things likewho's going to pay what bills,
child support, temporary childsupport, temporary spousal
support, and who lives wherethat's a big one and how often
(05:11):
you get to see your children orthe other parent gets to see
their children All of that canbe taken care of in the
temporary orders.
Alex Hunt (05:18):
Temporary orders.
I have this conversation withmy clients.
It's not the time to decide whogets what family pictures.
It's not the time to decide whogets the stuff in the garage.
Temporary orders really is allabout maintaining the status quo
and making sure that everythingis going to be okay while the
court settles the final orders.
And one example that I oftengive is particularly in a
(05:39):
divorce.
And one example that I oftengive is particularly in a
divorce.
There's an expectation that ahusband and a wife or partners
will be able to come togetherand reach agreements on some
important things like who'spaying what bills and who's
taking care of the kids and when, who's taking the kids to the
(06:00):
doctors, who's making medicaldecisions.
But when the marriagerelationship breaks down, then
often those what should beseemingly simple decisions
become very difficult.
It becomes like the Wild West.
There's no rules, and so havingthe court step in, put those
temporary orders in place helpsgive order, helps maintain that
(06:22):
status quo.
But you don't necessarily needto go to court and have the
judge drop the hammer and decidewhat's going to happen in your
case.
You can reach an agreement andthen present that to the court
and get the judge to approve,and that's the value, that's the
beauty of temporary ordersmediation, so that conversation
(06:44):
should be a lot should befocused on what you need, what
the court may do and what yourattorney recommends.
Tell me a little bit about whatthat conversation looks like
with your clients.
Melissa Masoom (06:59):
So with my clients, I usually I usually
like to draw it out because I'ma visual person of what they're
actually looking for.
So their wishlist is what I callit, right, what they absolutely
need, and then some of whatthey want or it'd be great if
they got right.
So we list that out and thenfrom there we try and brainstorm
(07:19):
what their first offer mightlook like, right, and then we
talk about you know the factthat you know a couple of hours
later they might not be wheretheir first offer is and we need
to talk about well, what's theabsolute minimum that you will
walk out of there with, like,what would you want to walk out
of there with?
And for a lot of people youknow, for instance, it's a
(07:41):
bottom line support number,right?
Or it's well, I'm not leavingthe house, so everything else
isn't important, but I want tostay in the house and that gives
me an idea of how to negotiatein the mediation.
And I also let the mediatorknow that, so that they're
prepared and that they know thatthis person has a bottom line.
(08:04):
Usually we don't share thatwith the other side, right?
So, because mediation isconfidential, but it does give
both the mediator and theirattorney a good place to start,
and you know it's good to havethat.
So that's usually how thatconversation needs to go.
Alex Hunt (08:30):
I think having that conversation about the minimum
that a client is willing toaccept.
So your initial offer should be, you know, probably something
similar to your best day incourt.
Don't walk into a mediationwith the expectation that
they're just going to say weaccept your first offer.
That's not going to happen,more often than not.
I mean, think about how manytimes you've been in mediation
and we give our first offer andthe other side huffs and puffs
(08:51):
and says I'm going to walk out,and then we get an offer back
and then our client is put intoa completely different mindset
because it's a completely bogusoffer.
But what comes after that is theimportant part where we're
trying to come together and theconversation about the minimum
that you're willing to accept ina mediation before you decide
(09:14):
that's it, melissa, let's go tocourt is so important to
conversation before themediation.
You do it during.
You're having it during a timewhere there's a lot of emotion,
there's a lot of turmoil, peopleget in their heads, they're not
in the right mindset and whenyou sign on the dotted line in a
(09:35):
mediation, you sign a mediatedsettlement agreement, it's a
done deal, it's irrevocable.
So you really need to set yourguardrails before you get to
mediation about what's the leastthat you'll accept, and that's
a conversation that we have.
We always send our clients atHunt Law Firm.
We send our clients a letterconfirming when mediation is
(09:57):
setting up that meeting.
If they need another meeting,we'll set another meeting, but
we're not just going to setmediation and then show up and
try to figure it out then.
Right right, so let's talkabout temporary orders mediation
.
What are some of the documentsthat you might need from a
client, or what do we need toproduce in order to have a
successful mediation?
Melissa Masoom (10:18):
So if it's a divorce, a really important
document that our clients hearabout right after they sign up
with us is the financialinformation statement we call it
the FIS and that is basically alist of all their monthly
expenses, right?
So in a typical month, how muchare they paying in rent
mortgage, how much are theyspending on kids' activities,
(10:41):
how much are they spending onbills?
And it's a great way to figureout.
Well, you know, this is howmuch I might need at the end,
right?
So if they're asking for childsupport and a spousal support,
that's a good place to start andit helps us kind of figure out
what the needs are.
And this is a very, veryimportant document because
(11:03):
courts require it as well if youare to go to court.
So it helps you almost preparefor court, and it's one of the
last thing we have to do if wedo have to go to court.
And I always tell my clientsthis is such an important
document and I know you're, youknow, scared about how you're
going to do financially in thisdivorce.
But don't inflate your needshere, because if you are not
(11:27):
truthful and if you can't backup what your needs are with
either documents or whatever,then you know it's not going to
be a great look for you in court.
So if you have bank statements,if you have anything to back it
up, I also ask for those.
So you know, if the otherside's like, well, that's not
true, we have the documents toshow them in mediation.
Alex Hunt (11:50):
So our clients, before we go to mediation,
really as soon as they sign upthey're getting a binder and our
paralegals are going over whattheir homework is.
And you know, we've got ourhomework too.
We've got things to draft forthe court.
But the homework that ourclients do, particularly
completing that financialinformation statement, that
(12:11):
might not be something thatfolks have really thought about
and just the process of writingdown your income, your expenses,
can be really eye-opening, butit's an important piece.
Before we go to mediation, tellme about what kind of
statements that we might needfor temporary orders mediation.
Melissa Masoom (12:31):
Usually, alex, we ask for the most recent bank
statements and the most recentpay stubs.
It doesn't matter if you're notgoing to be the one paying
child support.
We usually need the most recentpay stubs, if you have them,
and those bank statements arereally important.
And even if the other side hasaccess to those bank statements
and that's something we get allthe time well, it's a joint
(12:53):
account we still need them forboth our purposes for knowing
what's in the bank account, butalso it's just what we need to
exchange.
So it gives us a good idea ofyou know how much money is
coming in, et cetera.
Alex Hunt (13:09):
So that's the financial component of a
temporary order orders mediationand in a lot of cases, if
there's no kids involved, youmight not need temporary orders.
You might be able to come to anagreement just between the
parties on how the finances willwork.
But then there's also the kidcomponent.
If you have children, what aresome of the things that need to
be decided at a temporary ordersmediation?
(13:32):
And then what should people bethinking about beforehand?
What should they be preparingso they're ready to make those
decisions in mediation?
Melissa Masoom (13:40):
So, with kids, besides the financial aspect of
the kids, there's possession andaccess and there's
conservatorship.
So we have our clients.
So, if you think of it as twodifferent boxes, right, we have
our clients.
Make sure they know whatdecisions they want to make with
the other parent.
There is the importantdecisions, like we call it heads
(14:03):
, meds and eds, and that'spsychological, psychiatric care,
invasive medical procedures andeducational decisions.
Do they want to share thosedecisions with the other side or
do they want to make themexclusively?
And then we make them thinkwell, what does possession and
access look like?
Right, so, do you want for youor the other side to have the
(14:25):
regular, standard possessionorder?
Do you want something different?
Do you want something thatworks with your work schedule?
This is the time when you know,as we're preparing for mediation
, we have to think about it allthe time, because it's really
important to kind of knowexactly.
You know how that's going tolook, and it's a good time for
us to also advise them.
Well, this is what the courtwould do.
(14:45):
Of course, we're going to askfor this, but just so you know.
You know this is a little bitoutside of what the court would
give you and it helps managetheir expectations.
And so you know, walking intomediation, I'm asking for
something that if I don't get Imight not get in court, but I'm
asking for it here.
So that's that.
(15:09):
Those are the things we talkabout with with kids.
But also we need to startlooking at child support
calculations and we need to makesure that we know if either our
client is paying child supportor the other side is paying
child support, what that lookslike, and sometimes we don't
know those numbers.
But if we do know those numbers, there's actually a calculator
online we use and we make surewe're prepared to you know, tell
(15:30):
the mediator what we want inthat aspect.
Alex Hunt (15:32):
So from there, let's say, the parties get together,
they reach an agreement intemporary orders.
They will get a mediatedsettlement agreement From there.
Not quite done yet withtemporary orders, one of the
parties, one of the party'sattorneys, needs to draft up the
temporary orders, circulate itfor revisions.
The lawyers will talk aboutsome of the terms, work on the
(15:55):
language, give it to the parties, will sign off, it'll get
provided to the court.
The court, 99% of the time, isgoing to approve it because it's
the agreement of the partiesand then sign it and then you'll
have your temporary orders.
That will maintain the statusquo in your case.
So again, if you're on videowatching this, then we'll put up
(16:17):
our divorce process worksheet.
We're going to skip ahead.
Then, past the temporary orders, you'll have an opportunity to
do discovery, request forproduction of documents,
interrogatories, depositions.
You'll exchange inventories andappraisements.
All of these documents areimportant.
So that way you're ready for afinal orders mediation.
(16:40):
So let's again talk about finalorders, mediation, finances,
figuring out a final financialsettlement.
What documents do we need tohave prepared before a final
mediation?
Melissa Masoom (16:55):
So the inventory and appraisement that you
mentioned is a big one.
So that's a document thatactually lists out every single
asset, bank account, everythingthe parties have in a divorce in
order to figure out, well, whogets what right.
So that's a big one.
And that's when we're preparingfor mediation we talk about
(17:17):
well, what do you want right, infinal orders, because you don't
really talk about that fortemporary orders, right.
So the inventory andappraisement after the discovery
process, after figuring outwhat the other side has, is very
important.
Also, all the bank statements,all of that and any other
(17:39):
documents that would help thatfinal mediation settle is
important, that final mediationsettle, which is important.
Alex Hunt (17:47):
And the inventory and appraisement really is the
document that during themediation, the attorneys and the
client clients at least at ourfirm, the clients in the
driver's seat we're providingthe advice and guidance.
But the inventory is a documentthat we're going to continue to
go back to because it's aspreadsheet and on that
spreadsheet we're able to createcolumns of who's getting what.
(18:08):
We're able to look atpercentages of what percentage
is each party getting.
The best part about aninventory and appraisement that
you get before a final mediationis that it's sworn to its
accuracy by both parties underthe penalty of perjury.
So they're notarizing it andthey're signing it, and so you
(18:28):
should be able to feel prettywell assured that it contains
everything.
But if you feel like your spouseis leaving something out, you
will have that run up untilbefore the final mediation and
the divorce trial, if that'swhere you go to do all the
(18:49):
discovery that you need.
So you can subpoena bankrecords if you feel like there's
things that are missing.
We have connections at our firmwith private investigators that
can try to find bank accounts.
We have forensic accountantsthat are on call that we can use
to try to locate the entirefinancial picture.
So our clients have that formediation.
But that's the key is knowingthe entire financial picture.
(19:13):
So you know what you'redividing and there's no there's
no secrets, anything else forthe finances at a final
mediation that folks need tothink about ahead of time.
Melissa Masoom (19:25):
Well, I mean, who gets to keep what bank
account is important.
If they have a joint account,who's going to keep that?
Who's going to get off of that?
Those are all important things.
And then again back to the Iguess the bigger assets also
like the house.
(19:45):
If they're going to keep thehouse, who's going to pay the
mortgage if someone's going torefinance?
Those are all important thingsto look about at final.
Those are not things we talkedabout, probably at the temporary
orders mediation.
So the financial aspect of thefinal divorce mediation includes
(20:05):
all of that.
It also includes if spousalsupport is going to be an issue,
right?
So if spousal support is on thetable, then you know what does
that look like?
How long is that going to last?
How much is that going to be?
That's all included in adivorce final location.
Alex Hunt (20:23):
And then, of course, if it's a divorce or if it's a
child custody case, then the kidissues are going to be front
and center, and that includesconservatorship.
You know where that child'sprimary residence is going to be
.
Who's going to be making thosedecisions that you mentioned
before medical, psychological,psychiatric, educational
(20:44):
decisions, possession and accesswhich is a fancy way of saying
who has the kids and when andchild support.
The good thing about a finalmediation, though, is that
hopefully you've had some timeunder temporary orders or just
during the pendency of the caseto try some things out until you
know what works and doesn'twork.
(21:04):
What does that conversationwith the client look like ahead
of time, and what are somethings out until you know what
works and doesn't work?
What does that conversationwith the client look like ahead
of time, and what are somethings that people should know
going into making thosedecisions in final mediation?
Melissa Masoom (21:14):
Right.
So one of the things I have totell clients is, you know,
during temporary orders,mediation, or when the temporary
orders are put in place, is,like you said, this is a great
time to figure out what isworking, what's not working.
Uh, let me know what's notworking, uh, or what is working
because that'll help us preparefor that final uh, because, once
(21:35):
again, once it's final, it'sfinal, right, um, and you can go
back and change it.
But, uh, kids stuff can bechanged, unlike property, uh
things, but that is going torequire a whole nother filing in
court and all of that.
So this is a good time to kindof think of well, you know, this
wasn't working, or I'd reallylike, for instance, an exchange
(21:57):
location of the kids to bechanged, because that's not
really working for my schedule,like I thought it would.
Or I need you know this to beadded to that possession and
access, whatever, whatever theywant.
This is that's the conversationI like to have with my clients.
Is you know what?
What happened during temporaryorders?
Do we want to keep that?
And it's great when everythingworked out and we just pretty
(22:21):
much turn the temporary ordersinto final.
But sometimes there'sdefinitely a little a few
adjustments that need to be made.
Alex Hunt (22:27):
And I'm thinking back to a case that we had a couple
of years ago where there was anesting arrangement, which is
something that's fairly new,which is where the parties have,
say, a house and then they havean apartment, but the parties
are the ones that move back andforth, not the kids.
The kids get to stay in thehouse and in this particular
(22:49):
case we tried that on temporaryorders and nesting is
particularly difficult to makework and in this case they
realized over those months thatthey were trying this out Right,
this is just not going to worklong term, and so they're able
to come to terms with that andreach an agreement on something
else.
We also have cases where theparties for temporary orders
(23:12):
will try things like 50-50 andthey'll do week on, week off, or
they'll try what we call 2-2-3,which is where you do a Monday
and Tuesday with mom and you doa Wednesday and Thursday with
dad and then you switch off onthe weekends, and it's a lot of
moving around and parties willrealize this just doesn't work
for us.
So having an opportunity to trysome of those things out, see
(23:35):
what works, what doesn't work,is one of the benefits of having
strong temporary orders andthen and then trying it again at
final orders orders.
Well, I know that we litigatecases.
We represent our clientszealously in mediation, but we
also you and I and anotherattorney in our firm, margaret
Tucker, also mediate cases.
What is your mindset?
(24:02):
Tell me a little bit about howyou go into these cases as the
mediator, not as one of theattorneys for the parties.
Melissa Masoom (24:07):
Right.
So as a mediator I usually oneI really like when the attorneys
are like a law firm and theyprepare me for what I'm about to
go into.
So any kind of memos anddocuments really help me.
But I always go in hoping thatwe can know we can come to a
(24:27):
compromise.
But the most important thing inTexas, especially with kids
stuff, is the best interest ofthe child.
So I go in making sure thatthat's at the forefront of each
room, that we think aboutwhatever emotions and whatever
is happening.
You know we're focused on thekids.
(24:48):
So that's a big part of, youknow, my mediations.
I try and make them realize that, look, that's what the court's
going to look at if you were togo to court, and this is, you
know, a final agreement.
And you, you know you need tothink about your kids first, um,
because that's the mostimportant thing.
(25:09):
I also make sure, um, that theyunderstand because we, because
I litigate and I've, you know,been in court so much, um, in
front of all these judges, thatthey know, if they don't
compromise and they don't cometo an agreement, what that court
hearing or trial is going tolook like.
(25:30):
So I make sure that both sidesknow look, this is what you'll
be facing, including, you know,besides costs, which is a big
thing, right, you're going tohave to show the judge certain
things, and I'm hearing bothrooms and I don't know if you're
going to get that.
So I try and manage theirexpectations as well.
(25:53):
To make them come to the middle.
Alex Hunt (25:56):
Definitely Well, melissa.
Thanks so much for joining meagain to talk about mediation.
We have a lot of resources onour website,
familylawyerkatiecom.
Click on the Resources tab atthe topcom.
Click on the resources tab atthe top.
You can also click on the blogtab at the top.
We have a lot of blogs aboutmediation, what you need to
prepare, what to expect when yougo to mediation.
(26:17):
Also, look at our past episode.
That is what to expect in yourTexas family law or divorce
mediation.
If you have any questions, feelfree to call our office
832-315-5494.
And we'll see you next time.
Thank you.
Welcome back to the Texas Family Lawyer Podcast.
My name is Alex Hunt.
With Hunt Law Firm we serve thegreater Houston area with
offices in Katy, sugar Land,cypress and League City.
You can find more informationon our firm at
familylawyerkatiecom.
But today we are visiting withMelissa Massoum, an attorney at
(00:29):
Hunt Law Firm, and we're goingto follow up on a conversation
that we had in a past episodeabout what to expect at
mediation by talking a littlebit about what you need to do to
prepare for your Texas familylaw or divorce mediation.
So welcome, melissa, hi.
Melissa Masoom (00:46):
Alex, great to be back.
Alex Hunt (00:48):
All right, so let's do a quick recap.
Tell us, if folks didn't seeour past episode, what is
mediation?
Melissa Masoom (00:54):
So mediation just to simplify it a little bit
is just a formal processoutside of court where there's a
mediator and the parties get tobe in a room with their
attorneys and they get to settlea case outside of court with
the mediator going back andforth.
(01:15):
So that's usually how it works.
Alex Hunt (01:17):
Well, we talked about this in the past episode.
But when do you need to go tomediation episode?
But when do you need to go tomediation?
And one tool that might helpfolks that are watching this on
video is we have a child custodyflowchart that lists out the
entire child custody process anda typical case, from start to
finish.
You can find that on ourwebsite, familylawyerkdcom.
(01:39):
You can click on resources andsee the flowchart.
But tell me when during a casewould you need to go to
mediation?
Melissa Masoom (01:47):
Well, alex, you can go to mediation as soon as
you file a case.
So if you want to go and getsome temporary agreements in
place because you need somethingright away or immediate relief,
you can do it right away.
Or you can do it at the end ofthe case, after you prepare and
you and your attorney have hadtime to collect documents and
all that.
So you can do it at the end ofthe case, after you prepare and
you and your attorney have hadtime to collect documents and
(02:07):
all that.
So you can really go right awayif you need to.
Alex Hunt (02:11):
And preparation is key to mediation.
One of the hallmarks of ourfirm is that we are
over-prepared.
When we go to mediation, we gowith everything that we need.
We don't want to waste timewhere the meter's running, the
mediator's there, the clientsare paying the mediator, you're
paying the lawyer.
We want to have all of ourducks in a row beforehand.
So let's talk a little bitabout what the conversation with
(02:35):
your attorney before mediationshould look like.
Melissa Masoom (02:38):
So you're right, I, like all the other attorneys
at our firm, like to beoverprepared.
So usually I like to meet withmy client a couple of times
before and I usually give them alist of things we'll need for
mediation.
Because what we like to do atour law firm is make sure the
mediator is overprepared withour case.
(03:00):
So we usually give themdocuments such as bank
statements and anything elsethat they might need to help
settle the case, as well asexactly what my client is is
wanting.
So I always tell my clients youknow, get all that ready, get
any documents, depending on thecase.
You know I'll give that list isvery, very important because it
(03:23):
helps me prepare and it helps meget everything I need to the
mediator.
I also let them know if there'sanything you want the mediator
to look at that you think wouldbe helpful, please send that
over so I can send that over andthen I usually put together,
you know, the first offerbecause I think you know that
saves a lot of time.
(03:43):
The first offer because I thinkyou know that saves a lot of
time.
Like you said, it's a lot moreefficient if, walking in, the
mediator already knows whatwe're looking for kind of at
some of the backstory and itjust makes the process go a lot
quicker.
Alex Hunt (03:54):
Yeah, you don't want to waste time in mediation
putting together that firstoffer with the mediator there.
So the conversation that Itypically have with my clients
is dependent on whether we'regoing to mediation for temporary
orders or for final orders andof divorce, the final decree of
divorce.
So let's start with temporaryorders.
(04:14):
Some folks might not befamiliar with what temporary
orders are.
Tell me a little bit about whatare temporary orders in a
family law case.
Melissa Masoom (04:24):
So, alex, in Texas we don't have anything
called legal separation.
So a lot of people come intoour office asking you know, can
we legally separate?
You can't.
So for a divorce case,temporary orders.
And for a custody case,temporary orders are temporary
orders, exactly like it sounds.
Temporary orders, exactly likeit sounds, and it deals with
(04:49):
just some agreements or thingsthat need to be put in place
right away, as the rest of thecase is your.
The attorneys are preparingwith the rest of the case.
So, basically, things likewho's going to pay what bills,
child support, temporary childsupport, temporary spousal
support, and who lives wherethat's a big one and how often
(05:11):
you get to see your children orthe other parent gets to see
their children All of that canbe taken care of in the
temporary orders.
Alex Hunt (05:18):
Temporary orders.
I have this conversation withmy clients.
It's not the time to decide whogets what family pictures.
It's not the time to decide whogets the stuff in the garage.
Temporary orders really is allabout maintaining the status quo
and making sure that everythingis going to be okay while the
court settles the final orders.
And one example that I oftengive is particularly in a
(05:39):
divorce.
And one example that I oftengive is particularly in a
divorce.
There's an expectation that ahusband and a wife or partners
will be able to come togetherand reach agreements on some
important things like who'spaying what bills and who's
taking care of the kids and when, who's taking the kids to the
(06:00):
doctors, who's making medicaldecisions.
But when the marriagerelationship breaks down, then
often those what should beseemingly simple decisions
become very difficult.
It becomes like the Wild West.
There's no rules, and so havingthe court step in, put those
temporary orders in place helpsgive order, helps maintain that
(06:22):
status quo.
But you don't necessarily needto go to court and have the
judge drop the hammer and decidewhat's going to happen in your
case.
You can reach an agreement andthen present that to the court
and get the judge to approve,and that's the value, that's the
beauty of temporary ordersmediation, so that conversation
(06:44):
should be a lot should befocused on what you need, what
the court may do and what yourattorney recommends.
Tell me a little bit about whatthat conversation looks like
with your clients.
Melissa Masoom (06:59):
So with my clients, I usually I usually
like to draw it out because I'ma visual person of what they're
actually looking for.
So their wishlist is what I callit, right, what they absolutely
need, and then some of whatthey want or it'd be great if
they got right.
So we list that out and thenfrom there we try and brainstorm
(07:19):
what their first offer mightlook like, right, and then we
talk about you know the factthat you know a couple of hours
later they might not be wheretheir first offer is and we need
to talk about well, what's theabsolute minimum that you will
walk out of there with, like,what would you want to walk out
of there with?
And for a lot of people youknow, for instance, it's a
(07:41):
bottom line support number,right?
Or it's well, I'm not leavingthe house, so everything else
isn't important, but I want tostay in the house and that gives
me an idea of how to negotiatein the mediation.
And I also let the mediatorknow that, so that they're
prepared and that they know thatthis person has a bottom line.
(08:04):
Usually we don't share thatwith the other side, right?
So, because mediation isconfidential, but it does give
both the mediator and theirattorney a good place to start,
and you know it's good to havethat.
So that's usually how thatconversation needs to go.
Alex Hunt (08:30):
I think having that conversation about the minimum
that a client is willing toaccept.
So your initial offer should be, you know, probably something
similar to your best day incourt.
Don't walk into a mediationwith the expectation that
they're just going to say weaccept your first offer.
That's not going to happen,more often than not.
I mean, think about how manytimes you've been in mediation
and we give our first offer andthe other side huffs and puffs
(08:51):
and says I'm going to walk out,and then we get an offer back
and then our client is put intoa completely different mindset
because it's a completely bogusoffer.
But what comes after that is theimportant part where we're
trying to come together and theconversation about the minimum
that you're willing to accept ina mediation before you decide
(09:14):
that's it, melissa, let's go tocourt is so important to
conversation before themediation.
You do it during.
You're having it during a timewhere there's a lot of emotion,
there's a lot of turmoil, peopleget in their heads, they're not
in the right mindset and whenyou sign on the dotted line in a
(09:35):
mediation, you sign a mediatedsettlement agreement, it's a
done deal, it's irrevocable.
So you really need to set yourguardrails before you get to
mediation about what's the leastthat you'll accept, and that's
a conversation that we have.
We always send our clients atHunt Law Firm.
We send our clients a letterconfirming when mediation is
(09:57):
setting up that meeting.
If they need another meeting,we'll set another meeting, but
we're not just going to setmediation and then show up and
try to figure it out then.
Right right, so let's talkabout temporary orders mediation
.
What are some of the documentsthat you might need from a
client, or what do we need toproduce in order to have a
successful mediation?
Melissa Masoom (10:18):
So if it's a divorce, a really important
document that our clients hearabout right after they sign up
with us is the financialinformation statement we call it
the FIS and that is basically alist of all their monthly
expenses, right?
So in a typical month, how muchare they paying in rent
mortgage, how much are theyspending on kids' activities,
(10:41):
how much are they spending onbills?
And it's a great way to figureout.
Well, you know, this is howmuch I might need at the end,
right?
So if they're asking for childsupport and a spousal support,
that's a good place to start andit helps us kind of figure out
what the needs are.
And this is a very, veryimportant document because
(11:03):
courts require it as well if youare to go to court.
So it helps you almost preparefor court, and it's one of the
last thing we have to do if wedo have to go to court.
And I always tell my clientsthis is such an important
document and I know you're, youknow, scared about how you're
going to do financially in thisdivorce.
But don't inflate your needshere, because if you are not
(11:27):
truthful and if you can't backup what your needs are with
either documents or whatever,then you know it's not going to
be a great look for you in court.
So if you have bank statements,if you have anything to back it
up, I also ask for those.
So you know, if the otherside's like, well, that's not
true, we have the documents toshow them in mediation.
Alex Hunt (11:50):
So our clients, before we go to mediation,
really as soon as they sign upthey're getting a binder and our
paralegals are going over whattheir homework is.
And you know, we've got ourhomework too.
We've got things to draft forthe court.
But the homework that ourclients do, particularly
completing that financialinformation statement, that
(12:11):
might not be something thatfolks have really thought about
and just the process of writingdown your income, your expenses,
can be really eye-opening, butit's an important piece.
Before we go to mediation, tellme about what kind of
statements that we might needfor temporary orders mediation.
Melissa Masoom (12:31):
Usually, alex, we ask for the most recent bank
statements and the most recentpay stubs.
It doesn't matter if you're notgoing to be the one paying
child support.
We usually need the most recentpay stubs, if you have them,
and those bank statements arereally important.
And even if the other side hasaccess to those bank statements
and that's something we get allthe time well, it's a joint
(12:53):
account we still need them forboth our purposes for knowing
what's in the bank account, butalso it's just what we need to
exchange.
So it gives us a good idea ofyou know how much money is
coming in, et cetera.
Alex Hunt (13:09):
So that's the financial component of a
temporary order orders mediationand in a lot of cases, if
there's no kids involved, youmight not need temporary orders.
You might be able to come to anagreement just between the
parties on how the finances willwork.
But then there's also the kidcomponent.
If you have children, what aresome of the things that need to
be decided at a temporary ordersmediation?
(13:32):
And then what should people bethinking about beforehand?
What should they be preparingso they're ready to make those
decisions in mediation?
Melissa Masoom (13:40):
So, with kids, besides the financial aspect of
the kids, there's possession andaccess and there's
conservatorship.
So we have our clients.
So, if you think of it as twodifferent boxes, right, we have
our clients.
Make sure they know whatdecisions they want to make with
the other parent.
There is the importantdecisions, like we call it heads
(14:03):
, meds and eds, and that'spsychological, psychiatric care,
invasive medical procedures andeducational decisions.
Do they want to share thosedecisions with the other side or
do they want to make themexclusively?
And then we make them thinkwell, what does possession and
access look like?
Right, so, do you want for youor the other side to have the
(14:25):
regular, standard possessionorder?
Do you want something different?
Do you want something thatworks with your work schedule?
This is the time when you know,as we're preparing for mediation
, we have to think about it allthe time, because it's really
important to kind of knowexactly.
You know how that's going tolook, and it's a good time for
us to also advise them.
Well, this is what the courtwould do.
(14:45):
Of course, we're going to askfor this, but just so you know.
You know this is a little bitoutside of what the court would
give you and it helps managetheir expectations.
And so you know, walking intomediation, I'm asking for
something that if I don't get Imight not get in court, but I'm
asking for it here.
So that's that.
(15:09):
Those are the things we talkabout with with kids.
But also we need to startlooking at child support
calculations and we need to makesure that we know if either our
client is paying child supportor the other side is paying
child support, what that lookslike, and sometimes we don't
know those numbers.
But if we do know those numbers, there's actually a calculator
online we use and we make surewe're prepared to you know, tell
(15:30):
the mediator what we want inthat aspect.
Alex Hunt (15:32):
So from there, let's say, the parties get together,
they reach an agreement intemporary orders.
They will get a mediatedsettlement agreement From there.
Not quite done yet withtemporary orders, one of the
parties, one of the party'sattorneys, needs to draft up the
temporary orders, circulate itfor revisions.
The lawyers will talk aboutsome of the terms, work on the
(15:55):
language, give it to the parties, will sign off, it'll get
provided to the court.
The court, 99% of the time, isgoing to approve it because it's
the agreement of the partiesand then sign it and then you'll
have your temporary orders.
That will maintain the statusquo in your case.
So again, if you're on videowatching this, then we'll put up
(16:17):
our divorce process worksheet.
We're going to skip ahead.
Then, past the temporary orders, you'll have an opportunity to
do discovery, request forproduction of documents,
interrogatories, depositions.
You'll exchange inventories andappraisements.
All of these documents areimportant.
So that way you're ready for afinal orders mediation.
(16:40):
So let's again talk about finalorders, mediation, finances,
figuring out a final financialsettlement.
What documents do we need tohave prepared before a final
mediation?
Melissa Masoom (16:55):
So the inventory and appraisement that you
mentioned is a big one.
So that's a document thatactually lists out every single
asset, bank account, everythingthe parties have in a divorce in
order to figure out, well, whogets what right.
So that's a big one.
And that's when we're preparingfor mediation we talk about
(17:17):
well, what do you want right, infinal orders, because you don't
really talk about that fortemporary orders, right.
So the inventory andappraisement after the discovery
process, after figuring outwhat the other side has, is very
important.
Also, all the bank statements,all of that and any other
(17:39):
documents that would help thatfinal mediation settle is
important, that final mediationsettle, which is important.
Alex Hunt (17:47):
And the inventory and appraisement really is the
document that during themediation, the attorneys and the
client clients at least at ourfirm, the clients in the
driver's seat we're providingthe advice and guidance.
But the inventory is a documentthat we're going to continue to
go back to because it's aspreadsheet and on that
spreadsheet we're able to createcolumns of who's getting what.
(18:08):
We're able to look atpercentages of what percentage
is each party getting.
The best part about aninventory and appraisement that
you get before a final mediationis that it's sworn to its
accuracy by both parties underthe penalty of perjury.
So they're notarizing it andthey're signing it, and so you
(18:28):
should be able to feel prettywell assured that it contains
everything.
But if you feel like your spouseis leaving something out, you
will have that run up untilbefore the final mediation and
the divorce trial, if that'swhere you go to do all the
(18:49):
discovery that you need.
So you can subpoena bankrecords if you feel like there's
things that are missing.
We have connections at our firmwith private investigators that
can try to find bank accounts.
We have forensic accountantsthat are on call that we can use
to try to locate the entirefinancial picture.
So our clients have that formediation.
But that's the key is knowingthe entire financial picture.
(19:13):
So you know what you'redividing and there's no there's
no secrets, anything else forthe finances at a final
mediation that folks need tothink about ahead of time.
Melissa Masoom (19:25):
Well, I mean, who gets to keep what bank
account is important.
If they have a joint account,who's going to keep that?
Who's going to get off of that?
Those are all important things.
And then again back to the Iguess the bigger assets also
like the house.
(19:45):
If they're going to keep thehouse, who's going to pay the
mortgage if someone's going torefinance?
Those are all important thingsto look about at final.
Those are not things we talkedabout, probably at the temporary
orders mediation.
So the financial aspect of thefinal divorce mediation includes
(20:05):
all of that.
It also includes if spousalsupport is going to be an issue,
right?
So if spousal support is on thetable, then you know what does
that look like?
How long is that going to last?
How much is that going to be?
That's all included in adivorce final location.
Alex Hunt (20:23):
And then, of course, if it's a divorce or if it's a
child custody case, then the kidissues are going to be front
and center, and that includesconservatorship.
You know where that child'sprimary residence is going to be
.
Who's going to be making thosedecisions that you mentioned
before medical, psychological,psychiatric, educational
(20:44):
decisions, possession and accesswhich is a fancy way of saying
who has the kids and when andchild support.
The good thing about a finalmediation, though, is that
hopefully you've had some timeunder temporary orders or just
during the pendency of the caseto try some things out until you
know what works and doesn'twork.
(21:04):
What does that conversationwith the client look like ahead
of time, and what are somethings out until you know what
works and doesn't work?
What does that conversationwith the client look like ahead
of time, and what are somethings that people should know
going into making thosedecisions in final mediation?
Melissa Masoom (21:14):
Right.
So one of the things I have totell clients is, you know,
during temporary orders,mediation, or when the temporary
orders are put in place, is,like you said, this is a great
time to figure out what isworking, what's not working.
Uh, let me know what's notworking, uh, or what is working
because that'll help us preparefor that final uh, because, once
(21:35):
again, once it's final, it'sfinal, right, um, and you can go
back and change it.
But, uh, kids stuff can bechanged, unlike property, uh
things, but that is going torequire a whole nother filing in
court and all of that.
So this is a good time to kindof think of well, you know, this
wasn't working, or I'd reallylike, for instance, an exchange
(21:57):
location of the kids to bechanged, because that's not
really working for my schedule,like I thought it would.
Or I need you know this to beadded to that possession and
access, whatever, whatever theywant.
This is that's the conversationI like to have with my clients.
Is you know what?
What happened during temporaryorders?
Do we want to keep that?
And it's great when everythingworked out and we just pretty
(22:21):
much turn the temporary ordersinto final.
But sometimes there'sdefinitely a little a few
adjustments that need to be made.
Alex Hunt (22:27):
And I'm thinking back to a case that we had a couple
of years ago where there was anesting arrangement, which is
something that's fairly new,which is where the parties have,
say, a house and then they havean apartment, but the parties
are the ones that move back andforth, not the kids.
The kids get to stay in thehouse and in this particular
(22:49):
case we tried that on temporaryorders and nesting is
particularly difficult to makework and in this case they
realized over those months thatthey were trying this out Right,
this is just not going to worklong term, and so they're able
to come to terms with that andreach an agreement on something
else.
We also have cases where theparties for temporary orders
(23:12):
will try things like 50-50 andthey'll do week on, week off, or
they'll try what we call 2-2-3,which is where you do a Monday
and Tuesday with mom and you doa Wednesday and Thursday with
dad and then you switch off onthe weekends, and it's a lot of
moving around and parties willrealize this just doesn't work
for us.
So having an opportunity to trysome of those things out, see
(23:35):
what works, what doesn't work,is one of the benefits of having
strong temporary orders andthen and then trying it again at
final orders orders.
Well, I know that we litigatecases.
We represent our clientszealously in mediation, but we
also you and I and anotherattorney in our firm, margaret
Tucker, also mediate cases.
What is your mindset?
(24:02):
Tell me a little bit about howyou go into these cases as the
mediator, not as one of theattorneys for the parties.
Melissa Masoom (24:07):
Right.
So as a mediator I usually oneI really like when the attorneys
are like a law firm and theyprepare me for what I'm about to
go into.
So any kind of memos anddocuments really help me.
But I always go in hoping thatwe can know we can come to a
(24:27):
compromise.
But the most important thing inTexas, especially with kids
stuff, is the best interest ofthe child.
So I go in making sure thatthat's at the forefront of each
room, that we think aboutwhatever emotions and whatever
is happening.
You know we're focused on thekids.
(24:48):
So that's a big part of, youknow, my mediations.
I try and make them realize that, look, that's what the court's
going to look at if you were togo to court, and this is, you
know, a final agreement.
And you, you know you need tothink about your kids first, um,
because that's the mostimportant thing.
(25:09):
I also make sure, um, that theyunderstand because we, because
I litigate and I've, you know,been in court so much, um, in
front of all these judges, thatthey know, if they don't
compromise and they don't cometo an agreement, what that court
hearing or trial is going tolook like.
(25:30):
So I make sure that both sidesknow look, this is what you'll
be facing, including, you know,besides costs, which is a big
thing, right, you're going tohave to show the judge certain
things, and I'm hearing bothrooms and I don't know if you're
going to get that.
So I try and manage theirexpectations as well.
(25:53):
To make them come to the middle.
Alex Hunt (25:56):
Definitely Well, melissa.
Thanks so much for joining meagain to talk about mediation.
We have a lot of resources onour website,
familylawyerkatiecom.
Click on the Resources tab atthe topcom.
Click on the resources tab atthe top.
You can also click on the blogtab at the top.
We have a lot of blogs aboutmediation, what you need to
prepare, what to expect when yougo to mediation.
(26:17):
Also, look at our past episode.
That is what to expect in yourTexas family law or divorce
mediation.
If you have any questions, feelfree to call our office
832-315-5494.
And we'll see you next time.
Thank you.
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