January 6, 2025 • 36 mins
Here we interview author Caz Binstead on her years of work as a specialist in private practice. We talk about her writings, courses, and her work with both students and those new to the sector; the BACP Private practice toolkit; her community work and the release of the forthcoming book, Relational Ethics in Psychotherapy and Counselling Private Practice: Solidarity, Compassion, Justice (Binstead, C; Sarantakis, N).
Caz Binstead is an experienced private practitioner, supervisor, writer, facilitator/visiting lecturer. Specialising in the growth and maintenance of ethical and thriving practice, she was instrumental in creating the Private practice toolkit at the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy (BACP). She acted as divisional lead on the project. In addition to having many papers published in this area, she is also the first author of the book, Relational Ethics in Psychotherapy and Counselling Private Practice: Solidarity, Compassion, Justice (Binstead, C; Sarantakis, N): https://amzn.eu/d/jeh2nWq
Caz is co-lead of the popular community platform #TherapistsConnect (and founder of their student community #TraineeTalk), and was the creative director and a keynote speaker at the two-day conference, Private Practice 2021: Surviving and Thriving in Uncertain Times. She has hosted and run workshops at two BACP student conferences, and through her extensive work in this area, has helped hundreds of therapists with their private practice.
#TherapistsConnect is a platform for connecting therapists.
Website: www.Therapists-Connect.com
Twitter: @Therapists_C
Instagram: @TherapistsConnect
Facebook: @TherConnect
Origins of #TherapistsConnect
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Peter Blundell (00:00):
Hello everyone.
(00:00):
And welcome to another episodeof the therapist connects
podcast.
My name is Dr.
Peter Blundell.
And today we have a very, veryspecial episode where I'm
interviewing Caz Binstead, thatthe fellow at co-lead at the
therapist connect community,about how years of work as a
specialist in private practice.
So we talk about her writingscourses and her work was both
students that, those new to thesector.
(00:22):
Uh, development and input intothe BACP private practice
toolkit.
Uh, community work and therelease of her book, relational
ethics and psychotherapy andcounseling, private practice,
solidarity, compassion, andjustice published by Routledge.
So hope you enjoyed this episodeas much as I did recording it.
If you'd like to order a copy ofCaz's book, then you can find
(00:43):
the link to that in the shownotes.
So hello everybody and welcometo a Therapist Connect
broadcast.
Um, my name's Peter Blundell andwe're going to be releasing
this, I think, on our YouTubeaccount and also on our podcast
platform.
So some of you'll be able to seeme and our guest and some of
you, some of you won't.
So this is a special, um, authorspecial with Therapist Connect
(01:06):
co lead Caz Binsted.
Caz, hello.
Caz Binstead (01:10):
Hello, it's really good to be here.
And we were just saying slightlydifferent dynamic in that you're
interviewing me today.
So I feel a little bit nervous,a little bit unusual for me to
feel nervous.
But it's so yeah, this means alot.
It's so nice to be here talkingto our community.
Well, I think it's a reallyimportant moment, I think,
(01:30):
because if people don't know,Caz has got a book.
out, which is around privatepractice.
So, um, we wanted to do thisinterview to kind of explore,
um, her specialism aroundprivate practice and talk a
little bit about the book aswell.
So we're going to come on to allof that as part of this
interview process.
Um, as Caz says, Caz is normallyone of the hosts of the, of the
(01:50):
podcast.
So the, um, you were, you wereUh, first, one of the first
guests on the podcast early on.
So we, we have done thisinterview style, uh, before, but
about five years ago, I think,so, flashback.
Um, okay.
So, um, we're going to startoff.
So we're going to talk aboutprivate practice and that's one
(02:11):
of your specialisms, your areaof interest.
So to kind of lead us into thatdiscussion, can you tell our
viewers or listeners what ledyou into private practice as a
therapist in the first place?
Yeah, well, it's quiteinteresting because I never
wanted to go into privatepractice.
It wasn't that I, I didn't wantto do it.
It's just that I didn't thinkabout it.
(02:33):
Um, it wouldn't be, I think as aperson, like it wouldn't be the,
uh, a natural place for me toget to go to, to think about
working in the private sector.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I kind offinished my training and, um,
Um, I'd done, uh, I got a lot ofexperience actually, um, in
placements and things like that.
(02:53):
And I was working with adultsand teenagers.
Um, and what I actually wantedto do was work in a school or a
college, um, or a universitymaybe, um, as a therapist.
Um, and, uh, so I kind of, Istarted applying for things and,
um, I remember, um, I did get aninterview quite quickly
(03:16):
actually, um, in, uh, in asecondary school and I kind of
had the interview and it was allgoing really, really well.
Um, and, uh, they were very kindof like, oh, you know, um, you
really fit the post and stufflike this.
And then we got onto theaccreditation question and they
(03:37):
said, well, we think thatyou're, you'd be really good,
but you know, you're notaccredited.
I said, well, I know that'sbecause I've, I've not, I'm not
far off qualifying, but actuallyI, I actually had around 450
hours because I had a lot ofclinical hours.
Um, and so I said, you know,you'll see my, my hours.
It's not gonna take me long todo.
(03:58):
Literally.
I'm very happy to just do that,that process as quickly as I
can.
And the reply was kind of, well,yeah, but it's not a quick
process.
And, and, and that was it.
And I just thought it was atthat moment that I realized.
Okay, this is going to be aproblem.
Um, and I, and I, you know, Icouldn't afford to not work.
(04:20):
Um, so, um, I, it just sohappened that concurrently I
was, um, I had three clientsthat I'd taken into a kind of a,
a low cost, um, Private practiceand how that had come about was
that the placement that I wasin, um, they ran the NHS
services here in Lambeth, um,and they had a low cost, um,
(04:41):
service, um, which allow peoplewho, um, like clients who liked
their NHS therapists.
to move into the low costservice if they wanted to.
So that was quite good becauseit let them, you know, stay with
a therapist if they, um, if theywere really, um, you know,
getting on with that therapistand wanted to continue.
(05:02):
So that had kind of happened.
And then, um, and then theplacement allowed you to then
take those low cost therapistsinto your own private practice.
So I'd kind of done that as justa way of kind of Continuing to
work.
Um, and I thought, well, okay,well, I've got three clients
and, uh, you know, that's notgoing to be enough.
(05:23):
So if I can't get a job now, I'mgoing to have to try and, you
know, build this privatepractice.
Um, so it was all kind of just,it wasn't planned and I do, I do
maintain that actually, um, to,to this day, and some people
will see this in, in the book,psychology is a big part of, um,
how successful you are inprivate practice.
(05:43):
I do believe that you're kind ofyour mindset.
Um, and I was really in a placewhere I wasn't, I wasn't kind of
one of those people that waslike, you know, I'm desperate to
have a private practice.
Um, um, so I was kind of just abit like, I've just got to kind
of find a way to make it work.
Um, and yeah, and I did.
And as you know, Peter, I'm notthe most, uh, kind of kind of
(06:05):
the word corporate is one of my,uh, like run and hide words.
Peter knows this.
Um, so I'm not what you wouldcall a kind of, Uh, classic
business person, if you like,but I did also understand that
it was a business.
So I was able to just learn howto, I just started from scratch.
Um, I just learned it myself.
(06:26):
Um, and, uh, I did it, uh, kindof in the way of who I am as a
person.
So I didn't try and be someonethat I wasn't.
Um, but I did learn how to do itall myself.
And, um, yeah.
Yeah, very quickly, my practicewas full and yeah, however many
years, nearly 15, uh, 13, 13years.
(06:47):
What are we now?
Yeah, nearly 13 years in privatepractice.
It's just been, yeah, it's justbeen constantly full and there's
never not been a time when, youknow, I've dipped below what
I've wanted to work or whatever.
I've always, um, yeah, been ableto maintain that practice.
Dr Peter Blundell (07:02):
That's really interesting.
And I'm thinking about the twodifferent things there, like the
barriers to employment.
Um, first of all, and then alsolike a window opening to private
practice would give you like abit of a taste of it, if you
like, where of how this couldwork and then the rest of it,
you just have to kind of learn,learn yourself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Um, so.
(07:24):
So that's it.
I find it interesting that youweren't necessarily wanting to
go into private practice and yetit has become like one of your
specialisms in terms ofunderstanding it and your
knowledge around all of that.
So how did, how did you go fromkind of, okay, yeah, you've set
up in private practice to now itbecoming such an area of kind of
(07:44):
interest and specialism?
Caz Binstead (07:47):
Yeah, I think, um, I mean, I was just very happy
kind of working away.
You know, um, I absolutely lovethis work.
I still do.
Um, I get slightly more tiredthese days, um, having done it
for a long time, but I stilllove the work, but so I was just
very happy, like working away.
Um, and, uh, my supervisor kindof, um, said to me, you know,
(08:09):
you really got something here.
And she, um, was veryencouraging in saying that, uh,
you know, um, there was certain,uh, I guess, skills that I had
that other people didn't have.
Um, and, uh, I began to lookaround and I just began to see
that people were reallystruggling with their private
practices.
(08:29):
Um, and I thought, well, okay,I've kind of put the two
together and thought, well,there must be something in that,
I guess.
Um, And, uh, uh, so, and thiswas, this was years and years
ago, um, um, when there wasn'treally that many, there wasn't
really private practiceconsultants, there wasn't that
many courses out there either.
Um, so I set up a course whichwas called new to private
(08:51):
practice and was running it inone of the training institutes
here in London.
Um, and that was, you know, um,every intake, it was kind of,
um, Yeah, full, um, very busy,um, people with, you know, I
mean, really that course couldhave been, I think it was, I
think started on one day, wentto two days, but it really could
(09:13):
have been, you know, um, a greatbig, huge course actually, um,
because people were just, it wasreally like, I mean, you know,
me, Peter, I try and, uh, get asmuch in as I can.
So I was like trying to cram asmuch information in as possible,
but, um, um, yeah, people,people kind of.
would have wanted more.
There was a lot that was comingup and, um, um, actually like,
(09:36):
um, um, an accountant camealong, um, for some of the, some
of those sessions that were run,um, to come and talk about that
side of things.
So, um, it was interesting forme to see just how much people
really wanted help in this area.
I mean, it's one of thosethings, isn't it?
I would say that with students,like, someone starts off a kind
(09:57):
of conversation about privatepractice, it's like one
question, and then it kind ofmushrooms into kind of all
these, all these otherquestions.
And I think that's somethingwe'll probably talk about, is
there's actually so much toprivate practice, um, that can
understand why.
You know, starting to do sometraining on it.
And all of a sudden you're liketrying to cram all this
knowledge in, but actually itneeded, it needed more space and
(10:19):
time to kind of unpack all ofthat.
Dr Peter Blundell (10:22):
Um, um, so.
That so that's reallyinteresting.
That's like kind of like thewhat leads you into kind of
delivering training and kind ofI've delved into this topic in
more detail and sharing thatknowledge.
And but then that's thenexpanded even further in terms
of kind of the work you've donearound private practice within
the profession within the UK,and especially with the BACP,
(10:45):
where I know that you havedeveloped and designed and led
on the private practice toolkit.
Yeah.
Um, which is, um, amazes meactually that that has taken so
long for BACP to come up withsomething like that.
Um, but you were kind of one ofthe, the, the main people
leading on that and creating theresources.
So how did that come about giventhat you've said that you're
(11:07):
kind of not a corporate person.
Then working within BACP,creating these kind of resources
for, for all the practitionerswho are members.
Caz Binstead (11:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, um, I guess, uh, if I, ifI think about who I am as a
person, um, I'm creative and Ifelt that, that, that I'd done a
lot of kind of creative thingsand, and I was very, uh, and I
am very good at creativethinking.
Um, so this was something that,um, I kind of thought, okay,
(11:38):
well, you know, I have gotsomething to offer here because,
um, I noticed in trainings andstuff that I would be, um,
saying things that other peoplehadn't really thought about.
So, okay, there's, there'ssomething there.
Secondly, I'm an incrediblydetailed person, which, you
know, um, I'm very, verydetailed.
Um, so in terms of things like,um, you know, uh, contracting
(12:02):
and all of that jazz.
Um, yeah, I, I kind of recognizethat that was, um, a real, a
real, real skill of mine,actually.
Um, and then I guess, um, thethird thing was just about, uh,
my own movements within theprofession.
Um, like I say, for years, I'vebeen very happy, just quietly
working in my consulting room.
(12:23):
Um, you know, just doing thework basically.
Um, But, um, things began tochange a little bit for me.
And, um, I began to, I suppose Ibecame frustrated with the BACP.
Um, um, you know, uh, I thinkthey were doing these, uh,
things, um, uh, they brought inthis thing, which was like a
(12:44):
secret shopper thing, um, wherethey were going to send Uh,
yeah, yeah, people masqueradingas clients, you know, around
private practices and contactingprivate practitioners.
And I mean, that just went downlike an absolute lead balloon,
as you can, as you can imagine.
And that was one of the firstreal complaints that I'd I mean,
(13:05):
I'd seen things over the years,um, people being unhappy, but
that was one of the first realcomplaints that I had.
Um, so I guess I was becomingmore interested in, um, in what
was going on in our profession.
And I suppose that led me tothink, well, What does the BACP
actually do for privatepractitioners, because that
(13:25):
feels like a really like a notvery supportive and useful thing
to be, you know, putting onprivate practitioners, and and I
guess I just kind of thoughtwell.
Um, you know, I can see wetalked about the barriers and,
um, um, it had become a realimportant thing for me to think
about in terms of thataccreditation.
And I've noticed this, thatthere was work going on around
(13:48):
unpaid work.
And so I had, as a protest, notgot accredited myself so that I
could stand in solidarity withthose other people to try and,
you know, force, um, systems tochange in our profession.
Um, and so, yeah, I just kind ofthought, well, yeah, yeah.
that's the largest membershipbody and what's being done for
private practitioners.
(14:09):
Um, and you know, I guess I'm akind of see a problem, get in
there and try and sort it outkind of person.
Um, so I, I, yeah, I just saw anadvert for, um, a volunteer, uh,
position on the, um, privatepractice division executive.
(14:29):
And I thought, okay, well, Imight as well go for it.
And, um, in my interview, I kindof began to talk about, you
know, my ideas in terms of thethings that the organization
could do.
Um, and, uh, yeah, got offeredthe, um, position and, um, very
quickly, actually, it was, itwas like only like a few months
(14:50):
later.
Um, because it was in one of thevery first meetings that we have
where I kind of said I want tocontinue to talk about what I
was saying in my interview.
And, um, basically I just don'tfeel like there's enough support
for private practitioners.
Um, that there's, um, that theydon't get any support really.
We don't feel, um, the presenceof the membership bodies.
(15:11):
And when we do feel the presenceof the membership bodies, it's
kind of being a bit scared, tobe honest.
Um, and, and that is a real, uh,that's a real, um, I felt quite
scared after, after, you'd hearall these things in training and
then you'd just be petrified,petrified of having a complaint,
petrified of doing somethingwrong, you know, um, and that
(15:35):
was a really, uh, that was areal thing.
So.
Um, when I got that position, Ithought, okay, well, you, you've
got a little bit of power hereto actually do something for
good, um, you know, for good forthe profession.
So, uh, yeah, uh, I was asked toput together a business case, a
business plan, which I did.
I, you know, I was kind of like,wow, okay, right.
So I spent a bit of time onthat, put this business plan
(15:58):
together for something akin tothe toolkit.
And, um, Yeah, and then it justkind of flew off from there.
And there was a, another veryenthusiastic BACP staff member
there, um, who, um, I thinkmaybe it was good luck that he
started at BACP the same timethat I was doing this, because
what it meant was that I couldreally lead as the divisional
(16:20):
lead on that project.
I could really lead from the,from, I guess, from the therapy
side of things, um, and likebeing able to.
Uh, because we, we kind of, inaddition to new resources, there
were, uh, we went through thewebsite and the magazines to try
and pull in, um, things,articles and things that were
useful, but I, I read throughthe entire toolkit, because
(16:41):
obviously someone had to say,These are relevant.
These are not relevant.
This is correct.
This is not correct.
And all of that kind of thing.
So, um, in addition to doingquite a lot of writing and quite
a lot of contribution to thetoolkit, I was kind of doing
that side of things.
And then, um, Adam Pollard, whowas on, uh, uh, was a product,
product manager or something.
(17:02):
I can't remember his exact titleat that point.
Um, he was doing kind of all thegetting it up and the marketing
and all of that kind of thing.
Dr Peter Blundell (17:10):
So yeah.
I mean, it's such a, a hugeamount of work's gone into that.
And I think one, one of thethings I find really, uh,
interesting is there's a lot ofmembers of whatever membership
body where they're kind of, yousee a lot of people saying,
well, I pay this fee.
What am I actually getting formy, for my money?
And for me, I think the privatepractice toolkit is such a huge
(17:32):
resource for members.
And I know I think like, is it80 or 90 percent of it is free
resources?
I think, I think there's somethat maybe members have to pay
for, but majority of it is, isfree for members.
And so I really think it doessome, add some real value to
people's, um, fee when they'reactually saying, well, what do I
get?
And it's, it's a huge amount ofresources.
Caz Binstead (17:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And I want to say this now.
I really hope the BACP pick thattoolkit up and do something with
it because since I've leftnothing's happened.
Um, I really, really hope theydo because, um, the whole point
of it is.
you know, to be an ongoing thingthat is there to help private
practitioners.
And you're right, you know, wehad a lot, but you, you know, I
(18:13):
haven't been involved with BACPsince 2022 and we're getting
into 2025.
So I hope that they can really,um, now it's been set up, you
know, it's kind of all the hardwork's done and I hope that they
can, yeah, run with that alittle bit.
Um, but for me, it's just anice, yeah, it's a nice legacy.
Um, and it obviously gave me alot of, um, a lot of.
(18:35):
Opportunity to think aboutthings and to think about where
private practice was, um, andparticularly my specialism, my
specialist area, um,specifically, which is, um, the
kind of, um, thinking about, um,ethical private practice and the
therapy side and being ethicaland working ethically with, um,
(18:59):
the business side and, um,growing your practice.
Dr Peter Blundell (19:03):
So thinking about both those things and how
they sit together.
Um, and I think that probablybrings us nicely to kind of how
you've brought those, thosethings together, which is in
your, uh, Well, I say new book,it will have been out for
probably a couple of months,actually, by the time we kind of
released this.
So, Relation to Ethics inPsychotherapy and Counseling,
(19:25):
Private Practice, Solidarity,Compassion, Justice.
Um, and it's yourself, a leadauthor, and then Nicholas
Sarantakis, is that right?
Sarantakis, yeah.
Sarantakis, if I pronounced thatcorrectly.
Um, which is part of a series byRoutledge Ethics in Action.
Um, so, and I suppose I kind ofknow the answer to this, but
what, what kind of led you towrite the book?
Caz Binstead (19:45):
The books then I think that your journey so far
kind of indicates why but what'syour way of explaining that I
suppose.
Yeah, well I suppose I, I wouldhave been writing something at
some point, I was, I did.
Yeah, I mean the toolkit workwas amazing.
a lot of hard work.
So, um, and obviously you and Idoing Therapists Connect and on
(20:07):
the back of the pandemic, I waskind of really exhausted for a
while.
And, um, so I was thinkingabout, well, I was definitely
going to write a book and I wasthinking, what am I going to do?
Um, um, and, you know, how'sthat going to look?
Who am I going to go with andall of that kind of thing.
And then I was approached by,um, Andrew Reeves, Professor
(20:28):
Andrew Reeves and ProfessorLynne Gabriel, um, and Lynne
Gabriel was very, verycomplimentary towards me and
kind of had basically said thatshe'd been, uh, you know,
following the work that I'd doneand, um, you know, that they
were thinking of this projectand that they thought that I
would be really good as the leadauthor.
(20:50):
Um, and they basically told meand I thought, well, that's
exactly, that's almost exactlywhat I've been doing.
Um, and so, yeah, so it justmade sense.
Um, but I guess for me to kindof, to kind of take that on, um,
and obviously, you know, to bepart of the Ethics in Action
series and to be published byRoutledge, um, it felt like a
(21:12):
Good place to kind of be puttingthis work.
Um, um, and, uh, and yeah, yeah.
And then Nicholas kind of camealong, um, a few months later.
Um, I think one of, one of thosetwo knew him.
Um, so he was put on theproject.
So we didn't know each other.
Um, um, Um, so, which is, youknow, obviously a challenge if
(21:32):
you're writing a book with, um,you know, and, and both people
don't know each other.
But I think his, um, his areawas more ethics, um, ethics in
general.
And obviously my area wasprivate practice and, you know,
I guess all of it.
So, um, so yeah.
Um, it's great.
Do you, um, I wonder, um, aboutthe title, Solidarity,
(21:54):
Compassion and Justice, and whyyou felt it was important to
include those, those things inthe title.
Yeah, yeah, well, um, one of thereasons I hope people get to
read the book, and I hopethey're not bored, Put off, by
the way, by the subtitle,because I know the word
solidarity and some people cansend kind of alarm bells, like,
you know, left wing unionist orsomething.
Um, but actually, if you lookthe word solidarity up in the
(22:17):
dictionary, it has a very, veryspecific meaning and it is very
much about camaraderie.
And I suppose all of my workwith community, it really fits
for me.
Um, and, um, it actually has,um, I suppose more than one
meaning, the subtitle, because,um, Yeah, it looks at the book
(22:37):
looks at so it looks at therealities of private practice
and the realities of being aprivate practitioner.
So it takes into consideration,the work itself, obviously.
And, uh, you know, the book isabsolutely jam packed with
vignettes, um, and, um, allkinds of, um, uh, I guess kind
(22:59):
of interesting ones, you know,um, um, like, I tried to make
them, like, not common kind ofones.
Some of them, I guess, are, but,um, But some of them are, um,
you know, ones that people maynot have thought about before.
Um, and so I guess words likejustice and compassion you're
going to find in the ethicalframeworks.
Um, but also solidarity when wethink about social awareness.
(23:23):
Um, and you know, we kind of, wetalk in the book about being
socially aware.
towards clients.
Um, so I guess some people wouldcall this social justice or
whatever, but it is quite broadactually when you look at it,
um, how, how you can be sociallyaware.
Um, and that includes privatepractitioners as well because,
um, I think a lot of the workthat, um, I had done was looking
(23:47):
at, um, the potential, like,rubs tension between, say, a
private practitioner and, and,Um, the lack of support they had
and what needs they may bringinto business.
Um, and then, um, how you workethically and could, you know,
make sure you're continually asbest as possible working
(24:08):
ethically with clients.
So obviously like the area ofmoney, for example.
Might be one where there couldbe a bit of a tension.
Um, and, uh, uh, yeah, so I'dhad these kinds of two
dimensions, but in the book, weadd a third dimension, which is,
um, kind of, um, yeah, thesocial context.
(24:29):
Um, um, And, uh, yeah, so those,so the subtitle is yes for
client work, but it's alsoabout, say, the community of
private practitioners.
So solidarity, you know, do weactually support each other as
private practitioners or are wegoing into kind of being islands
and, um, looking at things froma competitive point of view?
(24:53):
How are we with privatepractitioners on social media?
Are the private practitioners,you know, and how does that all
feed into, you know, I guess,thinking about how ethically
speaking, we can be the bestthat we can be, both as a
community of privatepractitioners, and in our
individual work as privatepractitioners, and also how can
(25:14):
the profession Support thatbecause I do feel like, as I've
obviously already said, I dofeel very much like private
practitioners or workingtherapists actually are quite
unseen in our profession, whichis kind of ironic, given working
therapists are the ones outthere doing the work.
(25:35):
I do think there's, um, I guessthat fits in with what I would
see as difficulties with.
around equality and certainhierarchies in our profession.
So yeah, the book really triesto look at things from all of
those levels.
And that's why I hope peoplewill read it because I think it
gives some interesting ideas.
You might not agree, but I thinkit gives some interesting ideas
(25:57):
to think about.
Dr Peter Blundell (25:58):
Um, I love that and I, I, I think the book
does cover so many differentangles.
So I think there'll be somethingnew for anybody who reads it,
actually.
Um, and I was thinking aboutwhat you were saying then, I
always get this percentagewrong, so I won't say the
percentage, but a huge amountof, uh, members, members of BACP
and other membership bodies arein private practice as well, but
(26:19):
it's not always at the forefrontof the discussions and arguments
around around therapy, um, thatare happening.
So I, I, I agree.
I do think that thosepractitioners are missed quite a
lot of the time.
Caz Binstead (26:31):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, almost 70 percent um, workin private practice in some
capacity and that's going tokeep going up.
And, you know, um, I guess Ihave a question mark because I
do believe, obviously, becauseof what I do, that you can make
a living from private practice,but the profession is also
becoming very, very congested,congested because, I mean, as a
(26:53):
lecturer, you will know, um,there are a lot of trainees, um,
you know, uh, out there.
Um, and, uh, you know, coursescan, some courses more than
others can get quite full.
Um, so I really think that, youknow, yeah, it's important that
we're kind of looking at thisarea and we're making sure that
(27:14):
everybody's getting supported asmuch as they can be.
Dr Peter Blundell (27:19):
Um, so, I mean, it might be very difficult
to pick one chapter, but haveyou got any particular chapters
in here which you was kind ofyou'd say is your favorite or
the one you enjoyed writingmost, maybe, I don't know.
Caz Binstead (27:31):
Yeah, it is really, really difficult.
Um, I've always loved writingfor students as a chapter,
specifically for students onthere and that's been
historically what I've lovedwriting on, because obviously a
lot of my work, I do do work forit.
I mean, and the book is by theway for, you know, Private
(27:54):
experience private practitionersas well because there's kind of
ideas about what it's like torun a 21st century private
practices, particularly afterthe pandemic period as well like
where we're at with that so sothe book is for.
Um, those people as well.
But I suppose a lot of my workhas been for students and new
private practitioners.
(28:14):
Um, and, you know, I've done,uh, I've actually hosted, um,
two BACP student conferences aswell as delivering workshops.
So, um, and I've done other,other trainings and things, so
I, I, I, of course, I love thatchapter.
Um, but I've, I also love thecontracting chapter.
Um, it's the biggest chapter andI still.
(28:35):
There's still more to say.
Um, so, uh, but I really loved,I kind of thought I'd thought
about it a lot cause I'd donethis, um, uh, uh, co written
this, um, um, contract templatefor BACP, which had been a real
thing in itself because for solong, they hadn't had a template
there.
So I've done a lot of thinkingon that already, but it was so
really, very, very good to justsit there and really think about
(28:58):
the contract.
I, I really enjoyed thatactually, when I wrote this
chapter.
Um, Social media won't surpriseyou, you know, and it was
obviously great to, um, youknow, to, to, I suppose that
chapter is very, um, communityas well, you know, um, I've been
able to talk about TherapistConnect.
I've been able to look at someof the very, very minimal
(29:20):
research on therapists usingsocial media.
But, um, you know, mostimportantly, um, you know,
there's this round table andalso a kind of a discussion with
a private practitioner.
So it's just great to haveprivate practitioners actually
involved in that.
Um, I am just going to sayTherapist Connect was the first
platform ever to do aconversation with social, with,
(29:43):
um, a conversation on socialmedia with therapists in
general.
Um, so this is, this was onewith private practitioners, but.
I just wanted to say that, um,because I would, I would really
urge people to check that out onYouTube.
Um, if you enjoy reading this,uh, this round table, because I
think that therapiststhemselves, cause this is such
(30:05):
a, uh, uh, you know, there's alot to look at and a lot to
think about.
I really, um, I really thinkthat therapists themselves, um,
You know, have a lot to offer interms of, um, where we're at
with using social media, how weuse it, why we use it, all of
that kind of thing.
Dr Peter Blundell (30:24):
And I think the pace is moving so quickly
with social media, it'sevolving, it's changing, new
platforms are coming, others aredisappearing.
And so I almost feel like youcould hold that discussion every
six months with differentpractitioners and get different
discussion points coming out ofit because of how quick paced it
is and how much it keeps moving.
Caz Binstead (30:43):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Um, um, one thing I will say isI'll use this space to just say
this.
Um, um, We, we were quiteinterested in the, the points
that we had in common and thepoints that we, you know,
disagreed on or whatever, but,um, one area was around
confidentiality on social mediaand absolutely all the, all the
(31:05):
private practitioners there, um,agreed that confidentiality
should be kept on social media.
And that that would be like anumber one ethical point.
And yet every single person hadseen confidentiality broken.
on social media.
So I just wanted to, um, yeah,just wanted to mention that.
Remember, remember when you'reon social media, confidentiality
(31:27):
is very, very important.
Um, and also I think maybethere's probably nuanced
conversations to have aroundthat because maybe people think
that they are beingconfidential.
Dr Peter Blundell (31:38):
When they're not, do you know what I mean?
So that I think this, yeah, Ithink people really need to
explore that in terms of howthey express themselves on
social media, what it is they'reactually saying.
Caz Binstead (31:49):
Yeah, definitely.
I'll just mention some otherchapters as well.
I loved writing the endingschapter.
Again, there could be much moreto say on that, but it's an
important chapter for privatepractitioners.
Um, There is a chapter on socialawareness in itself, and that
has a lot of stuff around money,but it also has a lot of stuff
(32:09):
around working with diversityand difference.
And obviously this is a massivearea of interest, um, for me.
So I love that one.
And the other chapter that Ilove is the supervision chapter
or supervision and othersupportive spaces.
Um, and I really, I really lovedwriting that chapter because I
was able to.
Um, bring in some other workthat I'd done around, you know,
(32:32):
a supervision model that I'dcome up with.
Um, so I was able to referencethat and talk a little bit about
that.
And hopefully this book is goingto be really helpful for
supervisors working with privatepractitioners as well as private
practitioners themselves.
Um, um, and yeah, I do talkabout it's kind of specialist
super, specialist privatepractice supervision, something
(32:52):
I kind of have come up withmyself, actually.
Um, so it was nice to get allthose ideas down in one place,
but also just really just lovedwriting about, um, therapy as
well, you know?
Um, so.
Yeah, so lots of lots ofinteresting things in there that
I enjoyed.
Um, and it's just nice to see itin a book.
Dr Peter Blundell (33:13):
I mean, and I'm glad that you've covered all
those because it is the book isabsolutely packed full of stuff.
There is so much in here foreveryone.
So, um, no, I think it's awonderful achievement and a nice
way to kind of bring all of thatknowledge and experience
together in the one place, youknow.
Um, so I'm wondering, I suppose,what.
(33:34):
What is next in terms of privatepractice?
You still have your own privatepractice, obviously.
Caz Binstead (33:40):
Yes, well, well, you say obviously, but many
people don't know that I do, um,because I'm so busy.
And sometimes I was actuallyspeaking to Jane Travis, who's
another private practiceconsultant.
And she was like, what?
You still got a full privatepractice?
Because a lot of people, youknow, are doing all this work.
They don't still have a fullprivate practice, but I do.
(34:00):
And it is.
a full private practice.
So, um, actually, um, yeah,yeah, that is, that is, I
suppose I'm doing a lot of extrathings, but that is my main job
and that is what I'm continuingto do for now.
Um, um, and then, yeah, I'mgoing to see what the new year
brings.
Um, yeah.
(34:21):
You know, it's been, it's been afunny old time the last few
years.
Um, you know, you and I haveworked incredibly hard as well,
um, on community stuff, um, and,uh, and activism, you know, in
our, in our own activist, um,uh, things that we've, that
we've been part, a part of.
(34:42):
Um, and I do feel like, uh,yeah, you said a cult bringing
everything together.
So it feels like it's aculmination.
It almost feels like there's alittle pause.
For me now, there's a littlepause to kind of go, right,
where am I at now?
What is it I actually reallywant to do?
That will certainly includewriting, um, without a doubt,
(35:05):
I'm going to continue to write,but, um, Yeah, you know,
there's, there's, I guessthere's lots of things you can
do, but you kind of have todecide what are the main things
for me and what's most importantfor me and Yeah, I'm sure I'll
keep you updated You'll probablyknow before other people
Dr Peter Blundell (35:27):
Well, it sounds like it's a watch this
space And it also sounds likeyou've not a hundred percent
figured that out yourself yet interms of in terms of what's next
and that You're gonna spend sometime thinking about that Yeah,
definitely.
I mean, John from online eventshas, um, you know, I've talked
to him about all kinds ofprivate practice workshops that
I can do, uh, there with onlineevents.
So, um, you know, watch, watchthat as well, because there may
(35:49):
be some things that, um, comeout at some point.
Um, Yeah, but yeah, very much.
I'm just, I'm really enjoying,I've got three weeks off over
Christmas and I'm just gonna,everything's going to stop and
I'm just going to really enjoymy time and also use that as a,
as a time to just be a littlebit in my head, you know, so I'm
not, uh, we were just talkingthere.
(36:09):
We're not going to do any work.
It's like a pact.
We're not going to do any workover Christmas.
Um, Um, but I do want to just beable to just sit and just think
and be with myself and just go,yeah, what's important for me
and what have I got, what have Igot to offer?
Um, that's going to be, yeah,best for me, like I'm going to
(36:30):
enjoy.
Um, um, and also that's, youknow, going to be something
that's hopefully something elsethat's going to be useful for
people.
I love it.
Well, I think that brings us toa nice close.
We're talking about having a,having a rest and after all of
that work, not just your book,but everything else that you've
done for, um, the widerprofession and private
practitioners.
(36:50):
Um, I think you deserve a restfor that.
So, um, thank you for all of,all of the work that you've
done.
Thank you.
Caz Binstead (36:56):
Thank you, Peter.
Dr Peter Blundell (36:57):
All right.
Take care.
Hello everyone.
(00:00):
And welcome to another episodeof the therapist connects
podcast.
My name is Dr.
Peter Blundell.
And today we have a very, veryspecial episode where I'm
interviewing Caz Binstead, thatthe fellow at co-lead at the
therapist connect community,about how years of work as a
specialist in private practice.
So we talk about her writingscourses and her work was both
students that, those new to thesector.
(00:22):
Uh, development and input intothe BACP private practice
toolkit.
Uh, community work and therelease of her book, relational
ethics and psychotherapy andcounseling, private practice,
solidarity, compassion, andjustice published by Routledge.
So hope you enjoyed this episodeas much as I did recording it.
If you'd like to order a copy ofCaz's book, then you can find
(00:43):
the link to that in the shownotes.
So hello everybody and welcometo a Therapist Connect
broadcast.
Um, my name's Peter Blundell andwe're going to be releasing
this, I think, on our YouTubeaccount and also on our podcast
platform.
So some of you'll be able to seeme and our guest and some of
you, some of you won't.
So this is a special, um, authorspecial with Therapist Connect
(01:06):
co lead Caz Binsted.
Caz, hello.
Caz Binstead (01:10):
Hello, it's really good to be here.
And we were just saying slightlydifferent dynamic in that you're
interviewing me today.
So I feel a little bit nervous,a little bit unusual for me to
feel nervous.
But it's so yeah, this means alot.
It's so nice to be here talkingto our community.
Well, I think it's a reallyimportant moment, I think,
(01:30):
because if people don't know,Caz has got a book.
out, which is around privatepractice.
So, um, we wanted to do thisinterview to kind of explore,
um, her specialism aroundprivate practice and talk a
little bit about the book aswell.
So we're going to come on to allof that as part of this
interview process.
Um, as Caz says, Caz is normallyone of the hosts of the, of the
(01:50):
podcast.
So the, um, you were, you wereUh, first, one of the first
guests on the podcast early on.
So we, we have done thisinterview style, uh, before, but
about five years ago, I think,so, flashback.
Um, okay.
So, um, we're going to startoff.
So we're going to talk aboutprivate practice and that's one
(02:11):
of your specialisms, your areaof interest.
So to kind of lead us into thatdiscussion, can you tell our
viewers or listeners what ledyou into private practice as a
therapist in the first place?
Yeah, well, it's quiteinteresting because I never
wanted to go into privatepractice.
It wasn't that I, I didn't wantto do it.
It's just that I didn't thinkabout it.
(02:33):
Um, it wouldn't be, I think as aperson, like it wouldn't be the,
uh, a natural place for me toget to go to, to think about
working in the private sector.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I kind offinished my training and, um,
Um, I'd done, uh, I got a lot ofexperience actually, um, in
placements and things like that.
(02:53):
And I was working with adultsand teenagers.
Um, and what I actually wantedto do was work in a school or a
college, um, or a universitymaybe, um, as a therapist.
Um, and, uh, so I kind of, Istarted applying for things and,
um, I remember, um, I did get aninterview quite quickly
(03:16):
actually, um, in, uh, in asecondary school and I kind of
had the interview and it was allgoing really, really well.
Um, and, uh, they were very kindof like, oh, you know, um, you
really fit the post and stufflike this.
And then we got onto theaccreditation question and they
(03:37):
said, well, we think thatyou're, you'd be really good,
but you know, you're notaccredited.
I said, well, I know that'sbecause I've, I've not, I'm not
far off qualifying, but actuallyI, I actually had around 450
hours because I had a lot ofclinical hours.
Um, and so I said, you know,you'll see my, my hours.
It's not gonna take me long todo.
(03:58):
Literally.
I'm very happy to just do that,that process as quickly as I
can.
And the reply was kind of, well,yeah, but it's not a quick
process.
And, and, and that was it.
And I just thought it was atthat moment that I realized.
Okay, this is going to be aproblem.
Um, and I, and I, you know, Icouldn't afford to not work.
(04:20):
Um, so, um, I, it just sohappened that concurrently I
was, um, I had three clientsthat I'd taken into a kind of a,
a low cost, um, Private practiceand how that had come about was
that the placement that I wasin, um, they ran the NHS
services here in Lambeth, um,and they had a low cost, um,
(04:41):
service, um, which allow peoplewho, um, like clients who liked
their NHS therapists.
to move into the low costservice if they wanted to.
So that was quite good becauseit let them, you know, stay with
a therapist if they, um, if theywere really, um, you know,
getting on with that therapistand wanted to continue.
(05:02):
So that had kind of happened.
And then, um, and then theplacement allowed you to then
take those low cost therapistsinto your own private practice.
So I'd kind of done that as justa way of kind of Continuing to
work.
Um, and I thought, well, okay,well, I've got three clients
and, uh, you know, that's notgoing to be enough.
(05:23):
So if I can't get a job now, I'mgoing to have to try and, you
know, build this privatepractice.
Um, so it was all kind of just,it wasn't planned and I do, I do
maintain that actually, um, to,to this day, and some people
will see this in, in the book,psychology is a big part of, um,
how successful you are inprivate practice.
(05:43):
I do believe that you're kind ofyour mindset.
Um, and I was really in a placewhere I wasn't, I wasn't kind of
one of those people that waslike, you know, I'm desperate to
have a private practice.
Um, um, so I was kind of just abit like, I've just got to kind
of find a way to make it work.
Um, and yeah, and I did.
And as you know, Peter, I'm notthe most, uh, kind of kind of
(06:05):
the word corporate is one of my,uh, like run and hide words.
Peter knows this.
Um, so I'm not what you wouldcall a kind of, Uh, classic
business person, if you like,but I did also understand that
it was a business.
So I was able to just learn howto, I just started from scratch.
Um, I just learned it myself.
(06:26):
Um, and, uh, I did it, uh, kindof in the way of who I am as a
person.
So I didn't try and be someonethat I wasn't.
Um, but I did learn how to do itall myself.
And, um, yeah.
Yeah, very quickly, my practicewas full and yeah, however many
years, nearly 15, uh, 13, 13years.
(06:47):
What are we now?
Yeah, nearly 13 years in privatepractice.
It's just been, yeah, it's justbeen constantly full and there's
never not been a time when, youknow, I've dipped below what
I've wanted to work or whatever.
I've always, um, yeah, been ableto maintain that practice.
Dr Peter Blundell (07:02):
That's really interesting.
And I'm thinking about the twodifferent things there, like the
barriers to employment.
Um, first of all, and then alsolike a window opening to private
practice would give you like abit of a taste of it, if you
like, where of how this couldwork and then the rest of it,
you just have to kind of learn,learn yourself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Um, so.
(07:24):
So that's it.
I find it interesting that youweren't necessarily wanting to
go into private practice and yetit has become like one of your
specialisms in terms ofunderstanding it and your
knowledge around all of that.
So how did, how did you go fromkind of, okay, yeah, you've set
up in private practice to now itbecoming such an area of kind of
(07:44):
interest and specialism?
Caz Binstead (07:47):
Yeah, I think, um, I mean, I was just very happy
kind of working away.
You know, um, I absolutely lovethis work.
I still do.
Um, I get slightly more tiredthese days, um, having done it
for a long time, but I stilllove the work, but so I was just
very happy, like working away.
Um, and, uh, my supervisor kindof, um, said to me, you know,
(08:09):
you really got something here.
And she, um, was veryencouraging in saying that, uh,
you know, um, there was certain,uh, I guess, skills that I had
that other people didn't have.
Um, and, uh, I began to lookaround and I just began to see
that people were reallystruggling with their private
practices.
(08:29):
Um, and I thought, well, okay,I've kind of put the two
together and thought, well,there must be something in that,
I guess.
Um, And, uh, uh, so, and thiswas, this was years and years
ago, um, um, when there wasn'treally that many, there wasn't
really private practiceconsultants, there wasn't that
many courses out there either.
Um, so I set up a course whichwas called new to private
(08:51):
practice and was running it inone of the training institutes
here in London.
Um, and that was, you know, um,every intake, it was kind of,
um, Yeah, full, um, very busy,um, people with, you know, I
mean, really that course couldhave been, I think it was, I
think started on one day, wentto two days, but it really could
(09:13):
have been, you know, um, a greatbig, huge course actually, um,
because people were just, it wasreally like, I mean, you know,
me, Peter, I try and, uh, get asmuch in as I can.
So I was like trying to cram asmuch information in as possible,
but, um, um, yeah, people,people kind of.
would have wanted more.
There was a lot that was comingup and, um, um, actually like,
(09:36):
um, um, an accountant camealong, um, for some of the, some
of those sessions that were run,um, to come and talk about that
side of things.
So, um, it was interesting forme to see just how much people
really wanted help in this area.
I mean, it's one of thosethings, isn't it?
I would say that with students,like, someone starts off a kind
(09:57):
of conversation about privatepractice, it's like one
question, and then it kind ofmushrooms into kind of all
these, all these otherquestions.
And I think that's somethingwe'll probably talk about, is
there's actually so much toprivate practice, um, that can
understand why.
You know, starting to do sometraining on it.
And all of a sudden you're liketrying to cram all this
knowledge in, but actually itneeded, it needed more space and
(10:19):
time to kind of unpack all ofthat.
Dr Peter Blundell (10:22):
Um, um, so.
That so that's reallyinteresting.
That's like kind of like thewhat leads you into kind of
delivering training and kind ofI've delved into this topic in
more detail and sharing thatknowledge.
And but then that's thenexpanded even further in terms
of kind of the work you've donearound private practice within
the profession within the UK,and especially with the BACP,
(10:45):
where I know that you havedeveloped and designed and led
on the private practice toolkit.
Yeah.
Um, which is, um, amazes meactually that that has taken so
long for BACP to come up withsomething like that.
Um, but you were kind of one ofthe, the, the main people
leading on that and creating theresources.
So how did that come about giventhat you've said that you're
(11:07):
kind of not a corporate person.
Then working within BACP,creating these kind of resources
for, for all the practitionerswho are members.
Caz Binstead (11:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, um, I guess, uh, if I, ifI think about who I am as a
person, um, I'm creative and Ifelt that, that, that I'd done a
lot of kind of creative thingsand, and I was very, uh, and I
am very good at creativethinking.
Um, so this was something that,um, I kind of thought, okay,
(11:38):
well, you know, I have gotsomething to offer here because,
um, I noticed in trainings andstuff that I would be, um,
saying things that other peoplehadn't really thought about.
So, okay, there's, there'ssomething there.
Secondly, I'm an incrediblydetailed person, which, you
know, um, I'm very, verydetailed.
Um, so in terms of things like,um, you know, uh, contracting
(12:02):
and all of that jazz.
Um, yeah, I, I kind of recognizethat that was, um, a real, a
real, real skill of mine,actually.
Um, and then I guess, um, thethird thing was just about, uh,
my own movements within theprofession.
Um, like I say, for years, I'vebeen very happy, just quietly
working in my consulting room.
(12:23):
Um, you know, just doing thework basically.
Um, But, um, things began tochange a little bit for me.
And, um, I began to, I suppose Ibecame frustrated with the BACP.
Um, um, you know, uh, I thinkthey were doing these, uh,
things, um, uh, they brought inthis thing, which was like a
(12:44):
secret shopper thing, um, wherethey were going to send Uh,
yeah, yeah, people masqueradingas clients, you know, around
private practices and contactingprivate practitioners.
And I mean, that just went downlike an absolute lead balloon,
as you can, as you can imagine.
And that was one of the firstreal complaints that I'd I mean,
(13:05):
I'd seen things over the years,um, people being unhappy, but
that was one of the first realcomplaints that I had.
Um, so I guess I was becomingmore interested in, um, in what
was going on in our profession.
And I suppose that led me tothink, well, What does the BACP
actually do for privatepractitioners, because that
(13:25):
feels like a really like a notvery supportive and useful thing
to be, you know, putting onprivate practitioners, and and I
guess I just kind of thoughtwell.
Um, you know, I can see wetalked about the barriers and,
um, um, it had become a realimportant thing for me to think
about in terms of thataccreditation.
And I've noticed this, thatthere was work going on around
(13:48):
unpaid work.
And so I had, as a protest, notgot accredited myself so that I
could stand in solidarity withthose other people to try and,
you know, force, um, systems tochange in our profession.
Um, and so, yeah, I just kind ofthought, well, yeah, yeah.
that's the largest membershipbody and what's being done for
private practitioners.
(14:09):
Um, and you know, I guess I'm akind of see a problem, get in
there and try and sort it outkind of person.
Um, so I, I, yeah, I just saw anadvert for, um, a volunteer, uh,
position on the, um, privatepractice division executive.
(14:29):
And I thought, okay, well, Imight as well go for it.
And, um, in my interview, I kindof began to talk about, you
know, my ideas in terms of thethings that the organization
could do.
Um, and, uh, yeah, got offeredthe, um, position and, um, very
quickly, actually, it was, itwas like only like a few months
(14:50):
later.
Um, because it was in one of thevery first meetings that we have
where I kind of said I want tocontinue to talk about what I
was saying in my interview.
And, um, basically I just don'tfeel like there's enough support
for private practitioners.
Um, that there's, um, that theydon't get any support really.
We don't feel, um, the presenceof the membership bodies.
(15:11):
And when we do feel the presenceof the membership bodies, it's
kind of being a bit scared, tobe honest.
Um, and, and that is a real, uh,that's a real, um, I felt quite
scared after, after, you'd hearall these things in training and
then you'd just be petrified,petrified of having a complaint,
petrified of doing somethingwrong, you know, um, and that
(15:35):
was a really, uh, that was areal thing.
So.
Um, when I got that position, Ithought, okay, well, you, you've
got a little bit of power hereto actually do something for
good, um, you know, for good forthe profession.
So, uh, yeah, uh, I was asked toput together a business case, a
business plan, which I did.
I, you know, I was kind of like,wow, okay, right.
So I spent a bit of time onthat, put this business plan
(15:58):
together for something akin tothe toolkit.
And, um, Yeah, and then it justkind of flew off from there.
And there was a, another veryenthusiastic BACP staff member
there, um, who, um, I thinkmaybe it was good luck that he
started at BACP the same timethat I was doing this, because
what it meant was that I couldreally lead as the divisional
(16:20):
lead on that project.
I could really lead from the,from, I guess, from the therapy
side of things, um, and likebeing able to.
Uh, because we, we kind of, inaddition to new resources, there
were, uh, we went through thewebsite and the magazines to try
and pull in, um, things,articles and things that were
useful, but I, I read throughthe entire toolkit, because
(16:41):
obviously someone had to say,These are relevant.
These are not relevant.
This is correct.
This is not correct.
And all of that kind of thing.
So, um, in addition to doingquite a lot of writing and quite
a lot of contribution to thetoolkit, I was kind of doing
that side of things.
And then, um, Adam Pollard, whowas on, uh, uh, was a product,
product manager or something.
(17:02):
I can't remember his exact titleat that point.
Um, he was doing kind of all thegetting it up and the marketing
and all of that kind of thing.
Dr Peter Blundell (17:10):
So yeah.
I mean, it's such a, a hugeamount of work's gone into that.
And I think one, one of thethings I find really, uh,
interesting is there's a lot ofmembers of whatever membership
body where they're kind of, yousee a lot of people saying,
well, I pay this fee.
What am I actually getting formy, for my money?
And for me, I think the privatepractice toolkit is such a huge
(17:32):
resource for members.
And I know I think like, is it80 or 90 percent of it is free
resources?
I think, I think there's somethat maybe members have to pay
for, but majority of it is, isfree for members.
And so I really think it doessome, add some real value to
people's, um, fee when they'reactually saying, well, what do I
get?
And it's, it's a huge amount ofresources.
Caz Binstead (17:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And I want to say this now.
I really hope the BACP pick thattoolkit up and do something with
it because since I've leftnothing's happened.
Um, I really, really hope theydo because, um, the whole point
of it is.
you know, to be an ongoing thingthat is there to help private
practitioners.
And you're right, you know, wehad a lot, but you, you know, I
(18:13):
haven't been involved with BACPsince 2022 and we're getting
into 2025.
So I hope that they can really,um, now it's been set up, you
know, it's kind of all the hardwork's done and I hope that they
can, yeah, run with that alittle bit.
Um, but for me, it's just anice, yeah, it's a nice legacy.
Um, and it obviously gave me alot of, um, a lot of.
(18:35):
Opportunity to think aboutthings and to think about where
private practice was, um, andparticularly my specialism, my
specialist area, um,specifically, which is, um, the
kind of, um, thinking about, um,ethical private practice and the
therapy side and being ethicaland working ethically with, um,
(18:59):
the business side and, um,growing your practice.
Dr Peter Blundell (19:03):
So thinking about both those things and how
they sit together.
Um, and I think that probablybrings us nicely to kind of how
you've brought those, thosethings together, which is in
your, uh, Well, I say new book,it will have been out for
probably a couple of months,actually, by the time we kind of
released this.
So, Relation to Ethics inPsychotherapy and Counseling,
(19:25):
Private Practice, Solidarity,Compassion, Justice.
Um, and it's yourself, a leadauthor, and then Nicholas
Sarantakis, is that right?
Sarantakis, yeah.
Sarantakis, if I pronounced thatcorrectly.
Um, which is part of a series byRoutledge Ethics in Action.
Um, so, and I suppose I kind ofknow the answer to this, but
what, what kind of led you towrite the book?
Caz Binstead (19:45):
The books then I think that your journey so far
kind of indicates why but what'syour way of explaining that I
suppose.
Yeah, well I suppose I, I wouldhave been writing something at
some point, I was, I did.
Yeah, I mean the toolkit workwas amazing.
a lot of hard work.
So, um, and obviously you and Idoing Therapists Connect and on
(20:07):
the back of the pandemic, I waskind of really exhausted for a
while.
And, um, so I was thinkingabout, well, I was definitely
going to write a book and I wasthinking, what am I going to do?
Um, um, and, you know, how'sthat going to look?
Who am I going to go with andall of that kind of thing.
And then I was approached by,um, Andrew Reeves, Professor
(20:28):
Andrew Reeves and ProfessorLynne Gabriel, um, and Lynne
Gabriel was very, verycomplimentary towards me and
kind of had basically said thatshe'd been, uh, you know,
following the work that I'd doneand, um, you know, that they
were thinking of this projectand that they thought that I
would be really good as the leadauthor.
(20:50):
Um, and they basically told meand I thought, well, that's
exactly, that's almost exactlywhat I've been doing.
Um, and so, yeah, so it justmade sense.
Um, but I guess for me to kindof, to kind of take that on, um,
and obviously, you know, to bepart of the Ethics in Action
series and to be published byRoutledge, um, it felt like a
(21:12):
Good place to kind of be puttingthis work.
Um, um, and, uh, and yeah, yeah.
And then Nicholas kind of camealong, um, a few months later.
Um, I think one of, one of thosetwo knew him.
Um, so he was put on theproject.
So we didn't know each other.
Um, um, Um, so, which is, youknow, obviously a challenge if
(21:32):
you're writing a book with, um,you know, and, and both people
don't know each other.
But I think his, um, his areawas more ethics, um, ethics in
general.
And obviously my area wasprivate practice and, you know,
I guess all of it.
So, um, so yeah.
Um, it's great.
Do you, um, I wonder, um, aboutthe title, Solidarity,
(21:54):
Compassion and Justice, and whyyou felt it was important to
include those, those things inthe title.
Yeah, yeah, well, um, one of thereasons I hope people get to
read the book, and I hopethey're not bored, Put off, by
the way, by the subtitle,because I know the word
solidarity and some people cansend kind of alarm bells, like,
you know, left wing unionist orsomething.
Um, but actually, if you lookthe word solidarity up in the
(22:17):
dictionary, it has a very, veryspecific meaning and it is very
much about camaraderie.
And I suppose all of my workwith community, it really fits
for me.
Um, and, um, it actually has,um, I suppose more than one
meaning, the subtitle, because,um, Yeah, it looks at the book
(22:37):
looks at so it looks at therealities of private practice
and the realities of being aprivate practitioner.
So it takes into consideration,the work itself, obviously.
And, uh, you know, the book isabsolutely jam packed with
vignettes, um, and, um, allkinds of, um, uh, I guess kind
(22:59):
of interesting ones, you know,um, um, like, I tried to make
them, like, not common kind ofones.
Some of them, I guess, are, but,um, But some of them are, um,
you know, ones that people maynot have thought about before.
Um, and so I guess words likejustice and compassion you're
going to find in the ethicalframeworks.
Um, but also solidarity when wethink about social awareness.
(23:23):
Um, and you know, we kind of, wetalk in the book about being
socially aware.
towards clients.
Um, so I guess some people wouldcall this social justice or
whatever, but it is quite broadactually when you look at it,
um, how, how you can be sociallyaware.
Um, and that includes privatepractitioners as well because,
um, I think a lot of the workthat, um, I had done was looking
(23:47):
at, um, the potential, like,rubs tension between, say, a
private practitioner and, and,Um, the lack of support they had
and what needs they may bringinto business.
Um, and then, um, how you workethically and could, you know,
make sure you're continually asbest as possible working
(24:08):
ethically with clients.
So obviously like the area ofmoney, for example.
Might be one where there couldbe a bit of a tension.
Um, and, uh, uh, yeah, so I'dhad these kinds of two
dimensions, but in the book, weadd a third dimension, which is,
um, kind of, um, yeah, thesocial context.
(24:29):
Um, um, And, uh, yeah, so those,so the subtitle is yes for
client work, but it's alsoabout, say, the community of
private practitioners.
So solidarity, you know, do weactually support each other as
private practitioners or are wegoing into kind of being islands
and, um, looking at things froma competitive point of view?
(24:53):
How are we with privatepractitioners on social media?
Are the private practitioners,you know, and how does that all
feed into, you know, I guess,thinking about how ethically
speaking, we can be the bestthat we can be, both as a
community of privatepractitioners, and in our
individual work as privatepractitioners, and also how can
(25:14):
the profession Support thatbecause I do feel like, as I've
obviously already said, I dofeel very much like private
practitioners or workingtherapists actually are quite
unseen in our profession, whichis kind of ironic, given working
therapists are the ones outthere doing the work.
(25:35):
I do think there's, um, I guessthat fits in with what I would
see as difficulties with.
around equality and certainhierarchies in our profession.
So yeah, the book really triesto look at things from all of
those levels.
And that's why I hope peoplewill read it because I think it
gives some interesting ideas.
You might not agree, but I thinkit gives some interesting ideas
(25:57):
to think about.
Dr Peter Blundell (25:58):
Um, I love that and I, I, I think the book
does cover so many differentangles.
So I think there'll be somethingnew for anybody who reads it,
actually.
Um, and I was thinking aboutwhat you were saying then, I
always get this percentagewrong, so I won't say the
percentage, but a huge amountof, uh, members, members of BACP
and other membership bodies arein private practice as well, but
(26:19):
it's not always at the forefrontof the discussions and arguments
around around therapy, um, thatare happening.
So I, I, I agree.
I do think that thosepractitioners are missed quite a
lot of the time.
Caz Binstead (26:31):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, almost 70 percent um, workin private practice in some
capacity and that's going tokeep going up.
And, you know, um, I guess Ihave a question mark because I
do believe, obviously, becauseof what I do, that you can make
a living from private practice,but the profession is also
becoming very, very congested,congested because, I mean, as a
(26:53):
lecturer, you will know, um,there are a lot of trainees, um,
you know, uh, out there.
Um, and, uh, you know, coursescan, some courses more than
others can get quite full.
Um, so I really think that, youknow, yeah, it's important that
we're kind of looking at thisarea and we're making sure that
(27:14):
everybody's getting supported asmuch as they can be.
Dr Peter Blundell (27:19):
Um, so, I mean, it might be very difficult
to pick one chapter, but haveyou got any particular chapters
in here which you was kind ofyou'd say is your favorite or
the one you enjoyed writingmost, maybe, I don't know.
Caz Binstead (27:31):
Yeah, it is really, really difficult.
Um, I've always loved writingfor students as a chapter,
specifically for students onthere and that's been
historically what I've lovedwriting on, because obviously a
lot of my work, I do do work forit.
I mean, and the book is by theway for, you know, Private
(27:54):
experience private practitionersas well because there's kind of
ideas about what it's like torun a 21st century private
practices, particularly afterthe pandemic period as well like
where we're at with that so sothe book is for.
Um, those people as well.
But I suppose a lot of my workhas been for students and new
private practitioners.
(28:14):
Um, and, you know, I've done,uh, I've actually hosted, um,
two BACP student conferences aswell as delivering workshops.
So, um, and I've done other,other trainings and things, so
I, I, I, of course, I love thatchapter.
Um, but I've, I also love thecontracting chapter.
Um, it's the biggest chapter andI still.
(28:35):
There's still more to say.
Um, so, uh, but I really loved,I kind of thought I'd thought
about it a lot cause I'd donethis, um, uh, uh, co written
this, um, um, contract templatefor BACP, which had been a real
thing in itself because for solong, they hadn't had a template
there.
So I've done a lot of thinkingon that already, but it was so
really, very, very good to justsit there and really think about
(28:58):
the contract.
I, I really enjoyed thatactually, when I wrote this
chapter.
Um, Social media won't surpriseyou, you know, and it was
obviously great to, um, youknow, to, to, I suppose that
chapter is very, um, communityas well, you know, um, I've been
able to talk about TherapistConnect.
I've been able to look at someof the very, very minimal
(29:20):
research on therapists usingsocial media.
But, um, you know, mostimportantly, um, you know,
there's this round table andalso a kind of a discussion with
a private practitioner.
So it's just great to haveprivate practitioners actually
involved in that.
Um, I am just going to sayTherapist Connect was the first
platform ever to do aconversation with social, with,
(29:43):
um, a conversation on socialmedia with therapists in
general.
Um, so this is, this was onewith private practitioners, but.
I just wanted to say that, um,because I would, I would really
urge people to check that out onYouTube.
Um, if you enjoy reading this,uh, this round table, because I
think that therapiststhemselves, cause this is such
(30:05):
a, uh, uh, you know, there's alot to look at and a lot to
think about.
I really, um, I really thinkthat therapists themselves, um,
You know, have a lot to offer interms of, um, where we're at
with using social media, how weuse it, why we use it, all of
that kind of thing.
Dr Peter Blundell (30:24):
And I think the pace is moving so quickly
with social media, it'sevolving, it's changing, new
platforms are coming, others aredisappearing.
And so I almost feel like youcould hold that discussion every
six months with differentpractitioners and get different
discussion points coming out ofit because of how quick paced it
is and how much it keeps moving.
Caz Binstead (30:43):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Um, um, one thing I will say isI'll use this space to just say
this.
Um, um, We, we were quiteinterested in the, the points
that we had in common and thepoints that we, you know,
disagreed on or whatever, but,um, one area was around
confidentiality on social mediaand absolutely all the, all the
(31:05):
private practitioners there, um,agreed that confidentiality
should be kept on social media.
And that that would be like anumber one ethical point.
And yet every single person hadseen confidentiality broken.
on social media.
So I just wanted to, um, yeah,just wanted to mention that.
Remember, remember when you'reon social media, confidentiality
(31:27):
is very, very important.
Um, and also I think maybethere's probably nuanced
conversations to have aroundthat because maybe people think
that they are beingconfidential.
Dr Peter Blundell (31:38):
When they're not, do you know what I mean?
So that I think this, yeah, Ithink people really need to
explore that in terms of howthey express themselves on
social media, what it is they'reactually saying.
Caz Binstead (31:49):
Yeah, definitely.
I'll just mention some otherchapters as well.
I loved writing the endingschapter.
Again, there could be much moreto say on that, but it's an
important chapter for privatepractitioners.
Um, There is a chapter on socialawareness in itself, and that
has a lot of stuff around money,but it also has a lot of stuff
(32:09):
around working with diversityand difference.
And obviously this is a massivearea of interest, um, for me.
So I love that one.
And the other chapter that Ilove is the supervision chapter
or supervision and othersupportive spaces.
Um, and I really, I really lovedwriting that chapter because I
was able to.
Um, bring in some other workthat I'd done around, you know,
(32:32):
a supervision model that I'dcome up with.
Um, so I was able to referencethat and talk a little bit about
that.
And hopefully this book is goingto be really helpful for
supervisors working with privatepractitioners as well as private
practitioners themselves.
Um, um, and yeah, I do talkabout it's kind of specialist
super, specialist privatepractice supervision, something
(32:52):
I kind of have come up withmyself, actually.
Um, so it was nice to get allthose ideas down in one place,
but also just really just lovedwriting about, um, therapy as
well, you know?
Um, so.
Yeah, so lots of lots ofinteresting things in there that
I enjoyed.
Um, and it's just nice to see itin a book.
Dr Peter Blundell (33:13):
I mean, and I'm glad that you've covered all
those because it is the book isabsolutely packed full of stuff.
There is so much in here foreveryone.
So, um, no, I think it's awonderful achievement and a nice
way to kind of bring all of thatknowledge and experience
together in the one place, youknow.
Um, so I'm wondering, I suppose,what.
(33:34):
What is next in terms of privatepractice?
You still have your own privatepractice, obviously.
Caz Binstead (33:40):
Yes, well, well, you say obviously, but many
people don't know that I do, um,because I'm so busy.
And sometimes I was actuallyspeaking to Jane Travis, who's
another private practiceconsultant.
And she was like, what?
You still got a full privatepractice?
Because a lot of people, youknow, are doing all this work.
They don't still have a fullprivate practice, but I do.
(34:00):
And it is.
a full private practice.
So, um, actually, um, yeah,yeah, that is, that is, I
suppose I'm doing a lot of extrathings, but that is my main job
and that is what I'm continuingto do for now.
Um, um, and then, yeah, I'mgoing to see what the new year
brings.
Um, yeah.
(34:21):
You know, it's been, it's been afunny old time the last few
years.
Um, you know, you and I haveworked incredibly hard as well,
um, on community stuff, um, and,uh, and activism, you know, in
our, in our own activist, um,uh, things that we've, that
we've been part, a part of.
(34:42):
Um, and I do feel like, uh,yeah, you said a cult bringing
everything together.
So it feels like it's aculmination.
It almost feels like there's alittle pause.
For me now, there's a littlepause to kind of go, right,
where am I at now?
What is it I actually reallywant to do?
That will certainly includewriting, um, without a doubt,
(35:05):
I'm going to continue to write,but, um, Yeah, you know,
there's, there's, I guessthere's lots of things you can
do, but you kind of have todecide what are the main things
for me and what's most importantfor me and Yeah, I'm sure I'll
keep you updated You'll probablyknow before other people
Dr Peter Blundell (35:27):
Well, it sounds like it's a watch this
space And it also sounds likeyou've not a hundred percent
figured that out yourself yet interms of in terms of what's next
and that You're gonna spend sometime thinking about that Yeah,
definitely.
I mean, John from online eventshas, um, you know, I've talked
to him about all kinds ofprivate practice workshops that
I can do, uh, there with onlineevents.
So, um, you know, watch, watchthat as well, because there may
(35:49):
be some things that, um, comeout at some point.
Um, Yeah, but yeah, very much.
I'm just, I'm really enjoying,I've got three weeks off over
Christmas and I'm just gonna,everything's going to stop and
I'm just going to really enjoymy time and also use that as a,
as a time to just be a littlebit in my head, you know, so I'm
not, uh, we were just talkingthere.
(36:09):
We're not going to do any work.
It's like a pact.
We're not going to do any workover Christmas.
Um, Um, but I do want to just beable to just sit and just think
and be with myself and just go,yeah, what's important for me
and what have I got, what have Igot to offer?
Um, that's going to be, yeah,best for me, like I'm going to
(36:30):
enjoy.
Um, um, and also that's, youknow, going to be something
that's hopefully something elsethat's going to be useful for
people.
I love it.
Well, I think that brings us toa nice close.
We're talking about having a,having a rest and after all of
that work, not just your book,but everything else that you've
done for, um, the widerprofession and private
practitioners.
(36:50):
Um, I think you deserve a restfor that.
So, um, thank you for all of,all of the work that you've
done.
Thank you.
Caz Binstead (36:56):
Thank you, Peter.
Dr Peter Blundell (36:57):
All right.
Take care.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.